Great Western Coffee Shop

[Edit] - jump ((here)) - reply no. 36! (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16215.msg303132#msg303132) for 18.3.2021 meeting down thread

First launch today at Wilton ...


From the proposal leaflet published today at:

http://atrebatia.info/WiltonParkway_2015_09.pdf

See how this fits in with TransWilts vision 2020 via:

http://transwilts.org/tw/index.php

I was there - will write it up after a cup of coffee.   Not the easiest trips with displays and brochures as they haven't got the station ... yet.

Wilton was the ancient capital of Wessex - it's "Older than England" they say, and it lies about 3 miles to the west of Salisbury.   Heading out from Salisbury by train, the line divides with one line quickly becoming single and heading out vis Sherbourne, Yeovil and Honiton to Exeter. The other line head north west though the Wylye valley to Warminster and Westbury, and is double tracked.

Looking back to 1950, there were two stations at Wilton - but Wilton North on the Westbury line closed in the mid 1950s, with Wilton South on the Exeter line suriving until the 1960s on what was, at that time, also a double tracked line.

Times have moved on, and times have changed. Congestion and parking problems in Salisbury lead to "park and ride" being provided virtually adjacent to the railway line at Wilton, to serve Salisbury City visitors. And Salisbury's main station has car parks bursting at the seams, with little easy prospect of expansion. Wilton has an expanding leisure trade - with Wilton House and Wilton Carpet factory both being transformations of facilities which previously had few pleasure visitors now looking to atttact such visitors in significant numbers, And just eight miles away, the new visitor's centre at Stonehenge already has a shortage of car parking for visitors.

We've established on another thread here that stations such as West Brompton and Sowton and Digby - closed in "pre-Beeching" days - have been successfully reopened, and perhaps now is the time to ask the question "what about a station at Wilton?"  Observant readers of the TransWilts CIC web site ( http://www.transwilts.org ) will have seen Wilton shown as a potential new station, and today that was taken a step forward with the launch of early seeding work, including costings operational matters and sample plans and impressions at the Wilton Business Fair at the Witon Carpet Factory.   I was delighted to be able to assist at that launch and although I'm not the project lead / project manager in any way on this, I'm well enough informed to fill you in here.   I'm writing in chunks, though, as I can.

Wilton Parkway is proposed as a two platfom (6 car each) station on the Westbury line, to the west of the bridge which carries "The Avenue" up from the main A36 / A30 roundabout in Wilton.   Just to the north of the line, and at a higher elevation, is Wilton Park and Ride.  A new station building is proposed on the southen edge of this car park, with pedestrian access from the car park, and a small "kiss and ride" area and disabled spaces. A bridge leading level from the station building would take passengers over the platforms, to which they would descent using staircases or lifts.

Passenger flows to be catered for at Wilton Parkway would include outgoing "Park and Ride" traffic to Salisbury, to London and to Southampton Airport. Even today - perhaps the busiest Park and Ride day of the week - the car park was only around half full, with vehicles primarily parked away from where the station sould be.  Passengers arriving at the station by car would come from the West of Salisbury area, with a good link also from the A303 - providing a logical point for a wide area's traffic for London as Tiverton Parkway does for North Devon and North Cornwall.

Style a station "Parkway", plop it on the edge of a township, and there's the $64,000 question "will the folks of the town welcome the station into their midst?".  The answer is overwhelmingly "yes" for Wilton, if today's discussions with elected people, official, representatives and residents is anything to go by. For it does things for the town too ...

Wilton itself is growing rapidly - standing on the bridge to take a picture of the proposed station site today, I had only to turn round to see housing developmeent directly behind me - and this is "major stuff" as the whole site of the former HQ of the UK Land Forces is redeveloped.  Existing residents seem happy that their property values can only benefit from a local station - with estate agents commenting that "West of Salibury but commutable" requirements tend to mean "Tisbury please" at the moment.

The Carpet Factory and Wilton House, together with a pleasant town centre, riveside, etc, already attract incoming traffic and can attact more. And the Park and Ride is also a logical place from which to operate buses for incoming rail passengers to Stonehenge - again clear of Salisbury City Centre, and with the new visitor's centre for the Henge being about a mile west of the stones, Wilton is now the nearst logical railhead. Then there' Salisbury racecourse ...

Are there no plans for platforms on the SWML then?

Such platforms are not included in the proposals, but the early GRIP stages require a wide range of alternatives to be looked to see if they're better alternatives.  Indications are that stopping on the Exeter line would lead to timing / capacity issues on the Salisbury - Tisbury section without an extension of the double tracked section (or an additional loop!).  Even with platforms only on the Exeter line, it would involve the extra cost of a considerably longer access approach walk from the station building were it to be as shown in the plans, or a walk out to The Avenue and a slope in from there of lifts down from the main public road.  This would increase the car-to-train distance significantly no matter how it was done, and stopping Stonehenge / Racecourse buses on The Avenue would cause significant traffic disruption / not naturally easy to provide a lay-by there, and the vehicles would have to run down to the A36 / A30 roundabout and go all round it - that roundabout is not exactly quiet ...

With platforms on the SWML, you're also looking at putting a station up behind people's homes, with increased noise from stop-start of diesel trains;  I'm not personally sure of overlook / privacy issues but there may be some.

The operational issues that I mentioned at the start and need to fix them would bring significant cost, and having a station on both lines would also bring a significant cost - ballpark estimates indicate that Westbury line alone is much the most affordable option. Should capacity become an issue and a further investment be justified, you will note from the artist's impressions that the footbridge could run on to platforms 3 and 4 (or 0 and -1) - of course in that scenario, the "landside" and station building might have capacity issues.

This is an excellent proposal and much needed.

Continuing this series of comments ... here are some concerns that have been raised.  In some ways, this posting highlights a minority of responses which are not typical of the vast majority which are positive and trusting;  I'm happy with positive and questioning - just one of these issues gives me serious concern

"It does nothing for me"

Upon discussion with the gentlemen concerned, he was probably right. But he certainly agreed it does a lot for others, and won't adversely effect him.  So he's indifferent not objecting.

"It will cause traffic issues at the A36 / A30 roundabout"

This from a "transport expert" we called himself who suggested that only Wilton residents knew about the issues, and refused to give me an email address, a name, or any way to get back to him with answers. "If you want my support you need to answer my questions".   Fair enough - the experts can put numbers onto this - but please provide contact details. "I'll bring this up at planning".  Oh dear ...

And yet ... I suspect not an issue for the planners.   There's no more parking going in and the decision has already been made for the parking that's there and all the work done.   If anything there will be less traffic on that roundabout than planned if P&R buses become partly P&R trains.  And with  people doing P&R to further locations not just Salisbury, it will be far more spread out and not the peak problem this gent anticipated.

"It will block access to the field off the Avenue"

Not really; the Park and Ride road will still give the access, and with trains calling all day / every day, there will no longer be a 19:30 closure.  Indeed access from any housing built on the field on to the main Avenue will be safer as it will be at a roundabout, and not at a T junction that would have been awkardly close to that roundabout.

"It will make my home noisier with trains stopping and starting"

The person in question owns a house backing onto the Exeter line ... on looking at the plans and with the station on the Westbury line, the person was no longer worried.

"Why are you suggesting this when you don't know how it will be paid for"

Until we have rough budget costs (which we now have) and at least preliminary business cases and opertional checks made, and until other options to handle the same flows arelooked at, or course we don't know about the funding.  There are several clear and good potentials, but until the scheme is worked from an idea to early checks, and from early checks through to a "shovel ready" fully prepared case, no-one is going to commit to an open-ended project with an ill-defined reurn.  The operational, business and financial cases need to be worked in parallel - and are being.

I'm not one to stand up and boast, but TransWilts has considerable rail and project experience, and it is notable that there is active involvement and support from within all three elements of the partnership to help this move forward. And the drawings / consultancy work undertaken so far (that you can see in the leaflet / .pdf) has been by an organisation who've done it before right through to stations that are now open.   The first comparison case I offer you is Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway.

Some pictures from the launch yesterday - with John Glen MP, Horace Prickett (Portfolio holder on Wiltshire Council for public Transport), Area board and town council representatives and members of the public. Also local press and publicity.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wsupport1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wsupport2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wsupport3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wsupport4.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wsupport5.jpg)

To follow - pictures / details from on site, information / thoughts on services, and how the proposal goes forward.

The downside of not having platforms on the Exeter line is of course that passengers from the London direction for Stonehenge/Wilton will have to change trains (usually) at Salisbury. Will the current service level of trains on the Westbury line be able to deal with the number of passengers forecast?

Love the question.   Great starting point for the next element in the story.


There's a train at 09:20 from Waterloo that runs through Wilton Parkway at around 10:55 ... and a train that runs through Wilton Parkway at around 17:05 to Waterloo.  Pretty much "spot on" for a day trip our of London for Stonehenge ...

Current services between Westbury and Salisbury are "curiously erratic" or "perverse" depending on which local government input to rail consultations that you read.  Part of the cause of that is that this section is at the outer end of some services, with it being in the middle of some other long distance services with the trains just happening to pass through at certain times, or are there to provide connections not for local traffic but from the West to Southampton. Add that the SLC rule for Dilton Marsh requires juggling to meet the letter of the law without having to hire in extra resource or shorten peak trains elsewhere.   Then you have the very unusual situation of some trains heading for the biggest urban conurbation and City for many miles (Salisbury) and stopping 1 station short because "there's a long gap and not a single station between to serve".

There are already changes afoot - for example the new 10:20 London Waterloo to Yeovil via Frome starts in December, together with another down and two up services on the same route.  Further changes / recasts are almost inevitable as services through Westbury change with the coming of IEP and AT300, and with the cascading of Thames Turbos, and early timetabling / planning work for that is very much aware of issues and aspirations. Take a look at TransWilts Vision 2020 aspirations, and the cases join up. Take a look at the competitive SW refranchise and you'll find that the potential bidders are likely to have these matters on their radar ...

So - could current trains cope?   Possibly not, but then that would be current wasted spare capacity.  Could trains that will be running after the changes that will come?  Yes, it's planned that they will.  Of course, TransWilts was asked to do 45k journeys in the first year on Swindon - Westbury and did 183,400.  If we do the same overrun at Wilton Parkway, they'll probably have to find a second Stonehenge to cope with all the rail visitors.

They just did. Well, a row of monoliths, anyway. They do happen to be buried under an earth bank, so you'd need to give visitors a ground-probing radar to see them, but either Apple or Google is probably already working on making that affordable.

Article in the latest Rail magazine ...

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/2015/10/28/new-station-planned-for-wiltshire

Interesting technical discussion on RMWeb ...
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/104492-wilton-station/

From the Salisbury Journal (http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/15106302.Plans_on_track_for_Wilton_station_which_could_be_built_next_to_hotel_and_250_new_homes/)

From City Metric (http://www.citymetric.com/horizons/where-did-england-s-counties-get-their-names-2816)


See article for other counties ...

But surely Wilton in turn takes its name from the River Wylye, so Wiltshire is actually the county of the settlement on the Wylye. And Wylye presumably means something, presumably from Anglo-Saxon (or maybe Celtic?), though I haven't a clue what. I do know that the Wylye valley is beautiful.

... and how many knew that Twyford was a Wiltshire village until the 1840s?

From First's press release on the new South West franchise announced this morning
(see http://otp.investis.com/generic/regulatory-story.aspx?newsid=857157&cid=858 )

A big ask for a franchise of only seven years, unless plans are at a fairly advanced stage already.

So were parts of Wokingham - hence Wiltshire Road.

Update from The Salisbury Journal (http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/15621680.New_station_for_Wilton_could_open_in_the_next_three_years/)

Modern journalism sometimes makes me scream out loud.

How about "the new station could create many journey opportunities" etc.  The track and routes do already exist...

Paul

A more technical update (here) (http://atrebatia.info/station_progress_20171110.pdf) - looking at business case, evidence, and station(s), services and requirements to use them along the TransWilts corridor.  The strategy is developing; need to get the tactics of capacity and 98%+ reliability back.

"Stonehenge and Wilton Station, Now!" - from The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46658823)


I understand that a few people visit the stone circle on other days of the year too, and it would be quite useful for them!

"Senior Druid King Arthur Pendragon..."

I didn't vote for him.  ;D

Is this now ready to open,according to that poster, looks like 2019.

You don't vote for Kings! (https://youtu.be/H_Jb2gqu5xw)

I knew you would spot the reference, BNM!

Back on topic, it does seem odd to propose a station just beyond the junction - why not at it, thus serving both routes?

No access, no room for parking & no room for a station.  Look on street view.

Convincing. Actually I had also forgotten how close Wilton is to Salisbury.

From Wiltshire Council (https://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/news/wiltshire-council-bids-for-funding-to-create-two-new-stations)


Snipped the Corsham stuff which I have posted under a thread there

Who is/are "Nationwide Rail" - not an organisation I've yet come across.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/nationwide-rail-limited

Ahhh....contractors looking for work. Yes, they'd be likely sponsors.

I note (and approve) that this idea is for a station with platforms on the north-south and east-west lines, whereas previous talk of a station in Wilton has been only on the north-south line.

From TransWilts (https://transwilts.org/stonehenge-wilton-junction/) (click on that link to go to this page and event registration link via Eventbrite)


Technical note - for our diary where we have only space for a very little tea, I have used the code WSJ for Wilton and Stonehenge Junction as it now seems likely to be styled ...

Turning the ancient stones into a housing estate would certainly be an innovative way to make the case for Wilton Stonehenge Junction Parkway  ;D

“In the order of £15m”?

For four platforms, lifts, separate levels on the two routes, but I suppose some of the car park and road access already exists.

Reading Green Park - two platforms, £18m?
Soham - one platform, footbridge, £21m?

Is £15m anywhere near realistic?

Paul

Worcestershire Parkway was £22m with three platforms (one awkward one on an embankment), concourse, covered overbridge, ticket office and toilets - and a very large car park.

does that mean Soham is a bad example?

£22m sounds like a lot for what there is, but maybe there were extra costs for land acquisition and preparation?  It was quoted as £18.6m in this quite recent link:

https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/business/network-rail-award-18m-contract-for-soham-station-4916142

Reviving an old thread - Wilton Parkway / Stonehenge Road developments seem to have gone quiet. A simple idea for a pair of basic platforms in the wide cutting on the Westbury to Salisbury line, with slopes up to the footpath over into the extant park and ride.  But it mushroomed - to add lifts, platform(s) on the Exeter line(s) and an extended over bridge with a significant drop (more stairs and a lift) down to the south, with ancillary works such as  a road crossing into the area or the Wilton Outlet Centre.

The initial proposals were for trains to call on their way from Swindon to Southampton and from Bristol Temple Meads to London Waterloo, and shorter runs such as Westbury to Southampton services, and London to Frome (SWT/R) trains. Perhaps the Brighton trains too.  But Swindon to Southampton has been reduced to a single service a day (06:11), there's only one a day from London (Waterloo) to Frome - at 07:40, the Westbury to Southampton service and the Brighton trains have been withdrawn.  Even on the extended proposal with platforms on the Exeter line too, the service which was 2 trains each way in most hours, with the second train terminating at Tisbury, Gillingham or Yeovil and able to pick up the extra call without impacting the Exeter express, the extras are  gone. As I write, there's just one train every 2 hours through that line.

I thought of Wilton when my when New Civil Engineer (https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/green-light-for-new-184m-cambridge-south-train-station-22-12-2022/) popped up with a new station going ahead at Cambridge South.   Like Wilton, near a junction.  With track layout changes and other works, as Wilton had mushroomed into.  Price tag ... up from the (perhaps) £10 million for two simple platforms and slopes at Wilton to £184 million for Cambridge.  If there's a price tag like that for Wilton, will it have become a scheme that's too big for its own boots, ignoring the train service cutbacks in the area.  And if the only trains still passing through on a regular basis - to Portsmouth and to Cardiff - are reduced as standard from 5 to 3 or 2 carriages, would there be capacity for passengers to and from Wilton anyway?