Great Western Coffee Shop

Tweets this morning (may now be on BBC news feed) concerning severe overcrowding & failure to board trains towards Cardiff for the Irish game this afternoon.

FGW twitter apologising for underestimating the number of fans....not a presigious start

The FGW website says that "Due to overcrowding because of a sporting event between London Paddington and Cardiff Central trains have to run at reduced speed on the line."

Now apart from the somewhat (if not very) pedantic point that the sporting event is in Cardiff and not between London and Cardiff, why do trains have to run at reduced speed because of the overcrowding?

Some pics on social media do show trains absolutely rammed to the doors.

3 extra hsts from Pad on top of the hourly Swanseas and 3 extra loco hauled services from Pad, and an extra hourly service from Bristol. Also I see the 10:15 from Pad to Cheltenham was diverted to Cardiff as well. So there certainly was a lot more running to Cardiff than normal.

Sell out crowds for a world cup match, what were they expecting?

Even Tonga against Georgia (two lesser teams) at Gloucester in the lunch time game was sell out.

There are 3 games at Exeter, all of which are sell out crowds- Sandy Park has had its capacity increased for the world cup, so will be numbers that wont have been experienced in Exeter previously.

The 10:15 from London Paddington to Cheltenham was terminated at Swindon to form an additional service to Cardiff Central.

I wonder how well utilised the relief services were, given they were not advertised to the general public?

I suspect the travel pattern of the spectators for this match has been rather different from the Wales v England ones that they are used to. Seems people travelled later in a more compressed time period, and then more didn't want to hang around a bit in Cardiff afterwards. Signalling won't have helped though.

Full and standing

Ooooh, another subtle change with the new branding....

Journeycheck currently referring to "overcrowding", rather than simply 'crowding'! Admission at last

Good, just call it for what it is.

Not been a good start for Rugby fans travelling by rail these past two days. To be fair to FGW, I don't think that there was much more they could have done without seriously affecting other routes by pulling stock to run even more services or strengthening others to Cardiff.

Of course the public think a train company has a magic cupboard that they can pull lots of trains from at times of major events.

Agreed, so why not try & educate these World Cup-only fans that they might want to travel outside the hour either side of the game for comfort? I saw no advertising....

Fans were being unable to board at Bristol parkway as early as 0930. The game didn't kick off until 1430.

With Cardiff from my experience of match days is that a lot of fans go into Cardiff early, the main benefit of the stadium being in the city centre is it draws fans. Atmosphere in the city centre pre match is always fantastic in Cardiff.

Stadiums such as twickenham where there isn't a lot in the surrounding area people turn up closer to the game.

Looks like FirstGW really did have a magic cupboard today. 3 extra IC125 services I can understand since the weekend timetable doesn't have the 2tph to Cardiff (one of which continues to Swansea) suggesting some sets are available at weekends (and it isn't summer so those sets aren't working summer Saturday extras) but where did they find extra 'west fleet' units for extra Bristol-Cardiff services?

Where was the LHCS sourced from and what 'flavour' was it?

I believe fans buying tickets from the RWC Official were advised to travel outside 'peak demand' hours when purchasing and were also invited/required to enter in their travel plans. The Fanfests are open to anyone which can alter numbers travelling.

Difference being of course is that for the RWC, the stadium can be a 'neutral' venue, with *both* sets of fans possibly travelling long distances. Otherwise, Wales are usually playing and a majority of fabs must travel from within the Principality, and thus not on FGW. So many more are likely to have been travelling than a 'usual' gamecat the stadium

Not quite right. The capacity at Sandy Park was increased to the current 12500 during the last Premiership season and there were a few (3, IIRC) sellout attendances. I am hoping the train service will cope OK especially given the newly introduced 'advice' that fans travelling from/to the Exmouth direction must use Newcourt while those from/to Exeter should travel via Digby & Sowton. The associated posters imply this is actually a mandatory instruction and that staff will be present to enforce the rules.

I wouldn't want to make an assumption but I noticed on the journey updates yesterday a couple of full diagrams after lunchtime which would have been unit operated in Devon and Cornwall were cancelled due to "broken down trains". I would normally expect a spare set to come and replace after one journey, but the entire day was cancelled, so either the spare sets went to Bristol Cardiff or the broken down trains weren't broken down and in fact went to Bristol and Cardiff for the day.

That's exactly the problem they had when Team GB played at the Millennium in 2012.

The official RWC guidance related to Cardiff goes a bit further than this, suggesting people consider travelling the day before and / or the day afterwards.

Even though this was at a weekend, it seems relatively few may acted on this suggestion.

There was also a recommendation to travel from the West Midlands by coach.

An 8pm KO will have rather less recovery time after the match.

With the prices hotels are charging at or near the venues hosting RWC matches, I'm not surprised few took up the suggestion.

I just looked at this out of interest. I won't name the hotel, but the hotel in Cardiff I paid ^35 a night a month or so ago is Charging ^250 a night either side of World Cup games

What can't be easily found is how much early lots of rooms sold for - but it is hardly likely that they were at the regular price ...

Common practise around a major event (sporting or political)- at times when I've happened to be working near to an event, it's been hard to find somewhere to stay that hasn't rocketed prices like this.  Sometimes the price rises only occur quite close to the venue, and a local train journey away accommodation may be available uninflated.

It looks like HSTs are being used today for extras from BRI to CDF, e.g:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V92267/2015/09/20/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V92267/2015/09/20/advanced)

Wales vs Uruguay today at millennium stadium so should be kind of more like they expect for a Welsh game today. ATW being more Impacted

Sadly the connections from the Weston-super-Mare line are pretty poor today, so for once I'm going to drive.

I've read again people being unable to board at Bristol Parkway. I'm not familiar with Bristol Parkway but I assume its got plenty of parking near the motorway as certainly seems to be a popular choice for boarding to get into Cardiff.

Bording at BPW has traditionally been difficult on event days at the stadium. Doesn't matter whos playing.

The M4 was reportedly at a standstill and failing to cope with volume of traffic as well

Not a magic cupboard, but when you have several years warning that the 3rd biggest sporting event in the World is taking place on your patch and is likely to have major impact on your service, it's not too much to ask that then train company makes adequate provision for it......thousands of people who do not regularly use the trains have had a pretty appalling experience with FGW and will take some convincing to come back.......

Weren't you criticising the decision to ban group save to matches the other day?  Something which would have led to even more wanting to travel.

This is one of the World's premier sporting events and the question is about extreme levels of overcrowding and failure to provide sufficient capacity for an event which was many years in the making.

Banning groupsave won't stop people travelling if they've spent hundreds of ^ on a ticket, it's just a cynical attempt by FGW to screw a few extra quid out of their customers.

You now have a situation where people from all over the World have a jaded view of the British rail system, but I doubt that really bothers FGW, after all they've had a fresh coat of paint.

What could have been done in theory if it had been considered acceptable to downgrade services elsewhere?

Have there been any reports of people being unable to get on trains at intermediate stations after Paddington on the main line?

Should some of the additional services have not started from Paddington but from say Reading?

Should stops have been missed out since quite a portion of the delay was at intermediate stations?

A few questions to consider I think ...

Spot on - the sort of questions which should have been considered and addressed well in advance, rather than post mortem.......

All I'd say is that the staff have been doing their jobs on events like this for longer than you've been a member. Any wuestion you might raise I revkon they've thought of many more.

They had to continue to offer a timetable elsewhere

My questions considered the scenario that the services would or should have been reorientated around the event. This isn't to say this should have been the correct call or indeed that the organisers themselves dont have something to answer as well. Their travel plans, such as they are are weak on additional provision.

SWT did something - they told their punters to bike it or take a day off (with no reference to refunds for season ticket holders for helping them out).

Seasons only Mon/Fri, with use at weekends considered 'free'

The 'advice' concerning travel plans on the RWC website seems to have not had the desired effect. Given the amount of notice World Rugby, NR & the TOCs had I would have got them to decide well in advance how many additional (not for public use) 'Sport Specials' could theoretically be shoehorned into the existing schedule and then make each service available for booking (in turn until full) via a link from the RWC ticket site. This would have been accompanied by some fairly robust warnings about the likely consequences of turning up at a station on the day without a confirmed reservation. I don't think this would have been terribly difficult to implement.
Also would it not have been a good idea to use the RWC ticket purchasing process to also ask punters if they were intending to travel to games by train and, if so, get them to provide some detail about which service(s) they were likely to use - not definitive I know but it might have given the train planners a much better idea of additional passenger volumes.

I fear that they would be right to have a jaded opinion. Whether the blame can be laid entirely at the door of one company is a moot point IMHO.  It is government policy to run the railways as commercially as possible which means insufficient capacity everyday at some peak times and certainly no extra capacity in reserve for mass movements on special occasions - like football, rugby,cricket, golf and tennis events, royal visits, air displays, sea displays, music festivals, Christmas Holidays, end/beginning of university terms, summer holidays, half-terms...I may have missed some.  In France they have TGVs hanging around for weeks with no work in order to meet the peak demands.  In the UK that is seen as extravagance.  A judgement call.

Not all matches are at weekends - indeed the opening match of the tournament was last Friday.

It'll be interesting to see how the railway copes with the midweek fixtures in Cardiff tomorrow and next Thursday, especially with mid afternoon kick offs - I wonder if services in other areas are being stripped back to provide additional capacity from London/Bristol? Presumably there is less scope to do that during the working week?

If we get similar travel chaos to last weekend in the latter stages of the tournament when the eyes of the sporting World are on the Rugby World Cup and its venues it'll somewhat tarnish the new FGW brand.

The one we were discussing at the time however, was on Saturday!

All I see before KO are the 3 loco hauleds from Paddington, an hourly shuttle from Newport and 1 diagram that does two additional journeys from Bristol. Of course unlike at a weekend at least you have the normal hourly Pad to Cardiff services running.

............must have misunderstood, the way I read it the OP (Fourbee) was referring from advice from SWT to its customers, they were running the service to Twickenham on Friday for England v Fiji.

Another cock up by gWr; official brief is that travelling FROM Exeter you must alight at Digby and travelling FROM Exmouth you must alight at Newcourt.

However, the posters are worded

"If travelling in the Exeter direction you must alight at Digby; if travelling in the Exmouth direction you must alight at Newcourt".

The phrase "in the ... direction" means towards, not from.

Newcourt in both directions? Doh!

You appear to have misread it. The poster is referring to the system in place AFTER the game rather than before it.

Sounds like Cardiff might be a bit grim after todays match - ATW warning of up to 3 hour delays to pass through the queuing system at Cardiff Central:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-34331067 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-34331067)

But, to be very much welcomed by those who charge GWR with generally ripping off customers during events....a one-day easement allowing super off-peak fares on the 0815 ex-PAD and all trains after that to Cardiff today.

Ticket offices were instructed to only sell SSS/SSR tickets for these trains

Step in the right direction, good to see common sense prevailing - suffice to say it's been chaos again today for those travelling to Cardiff for the match, overcrowding to the extent that customers have been wedging themselves in luggage racks as there wasn't even enough room to stand on some trains.........looks like it won't be much better afterwards......and this alongside the sheer idiocy of NR refusing to suspend line closures in key areas this weekend as highlighted on the BBC last night.

It appears the 17:36 Pad to Oxford which terminated at Didcot was in such a hurry to get to Cardiff it ran early from Maidenhead onwards

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00600/2015/09/23/advanced

I would love to know how much Riviera Trains are charging to hire out their trains to the TOC's.  I imagine they've done quite well out of the Rugby World Cup given the TOC's have no other choice.  I'd reckon you're looking well into a five figure sum per train.

Good to see ATW, GWR and RWC are tweeting regularly to keep everyone informed as they work on getting everyone home from Cardiff. GWR have laid on buses between Cardiff and Bristol Parkway asking passengers for Parkway to use them instead of the train. This will help with capacity for those heading back to London. A queuing system was also in operation at Bristol Parkway this afternoon.

It appears lessons have been learned from the weekend with more staff, queuing systems, supplemtary buses and as many trains as can be operated being provided.

Question is, how are Wales fans going to get home after the match on Saturday evening? Last train leaves Paddington at 2200 Reading at 2230. Hourly service diverted via Bath on Sunday. No extra trains.

I imagine they are doing very well out of providing extra trains to the TOC's for RWC. Then again so are the TOCs who are carrying a lot of extra passengers.

But that's been the case since tickets went on sale. Hence those buying will have worked out their options on purchase & made suitable plans

It seems it is not only TOCs who have been caught out.  I understand there are semi-professional and amateur rugby clubs trying to call off games this weekend because they have suddenly discovered their star players have tickets for RWC games.

the team I play for, it appears we have enough players. Only a friendly so shouldn't be any issues. England are on at 8, get the game played them get in the bar for the evening.

You say that, October 10 at Old Trafford, Manchester there's the Super League Grand Final starting at 18:00, 2 hours later at the Manchester City Stadium there's England v Uruguay in the RWC!

It's known as "International Flu" and has been infecting amateur rugby players for years, normally when exposed to a ticket!  ;D  We've got more than enough players for both of our teams in the afternoon and similarly will have the match on in the bar later.

According to FGW this morning, last train off Paddington to Cardiff tomorrow is 2330, 0010 from Reading - even so that could still be tight from Twickenham, I doubt the match will finish much before 10pm if you take into account injuries/TMO delays etc and the inevitable crush at Twickenham station afterwards - if you're heading for Reading my advice would be to walk to Whitton station - trains will still be packed but you should be able to get onto the platform safely - if you're heading for Paddington.......good luck!!!

There are coaches available (organised by RWC) after the match - some to Richmond/Waterloo, some fast to Waterloo - a pal of mine who is working as a volunteer was helping to marshal these and they worked quite well after the Fiji match- at least as well as queuing up for Twickenham station, notwithstanding the unfortunate accident after that match.

Park and ride at Kempton park racecourse working well too.

Having read through some of the travel plans provided by RWC2015, for Twickenham they are explicit that they were expecting to take 2 hours to clear the stadium by train and the bus services. There is no equivalent indication for Cardiff, whereas the ATW announcements suggest this as around 3 hours. There is of course the 'suggestion' to stay the night. They don't have a clearance time for Wembley either, but they can shift everyone at an event usually in 90 minutes. If it had been stated that it may take 3 hours to leave expectations may have been different.

One other difference is that Twickenham has a decentralised approach of taking people by bus to a scattering of different rail/tube stations, rather than everything being funnelled through a single station (with Wembley and Stadium having multiple options within walking distance). This may well not be feasible in Cardiff.

Using other stations is an option for Twickenham which does not exist at Cardiff.  There are far more stations in the Twickenham area and being electric trains have longer platforms to accommodate.   The only possible suitable station near Cardiff is Newport, but there again, could it accommodate the additionals and keep the normal trains flowing as well.

In Cardiff, rather than use multiple stations I believe they have decided they have to close Cardiff Queen Street station on match days. Is this just because ValleyLines services would already be full with passengers who boarded at Cardiff Central anyway?

Those taken by bus to Bristol Parkway seem to have taken two hours to do the journey.

Surely the South Wales Metro plans, if they are ever delivered, would have helped.

Having been stuck in Cardiff twice in ten years, I think the Welsh Government, Cardiff Council, Millenium Stadium and FGW/Arrivia need to seriously do something to improve transport.  

I assume, judging from the lack of reports in the press and the twitter feeds of GWR and ATW, that it wasn't actually too bad at all last night?

Hi All,

Never understood why Cardiff Queen Street closes, I think it was safety concerns but they spent millions on Queen Street including a new platform but it still closes for events.

A bit of planning by ATW could at least run some trains from Queen Street if only up the Rhymney Valley taking some crowds from Cardiff Central but of course this would mean staffing Queen Street. which cost.

Here is a suggestion for handling the crowds in future years.

Fairly soon, the new SETs will start to enter service. Some of the presently used HSTs will be used elsewhere, but others are expected to be scrapped.

Why not retain some HSTs for peaks and special events ? they are a proven design and are a go (almost) anywhere train. Many services that are normally operated by short DMUs could benefit from an HST at busy times, and of course the DMUs thereby freed up could be used to lengthen other services.

I am thinking not just about rugby matches at Cardiff, but also other major sporting or cultural events, Christmas holidays, Easter, beginning/ends of university terms, bank holiday weekends, and all the other times when overcrowding occurs.
New trains are hugely expensive and therefore tend to be obtained in numbers and train lengths that are just barely adequate (or often a bit inadequate) whilst times are normal. Any extra demand results in the sort of problems seen recently.

The economics of obtaining additional new trains for peaks are very doubtful, which is why we have the policy of just barely adequate provision.

The purchase cost of trains that would otherwise be scrapped should be far more affordable.

Extra rolling stock is also most useful at times of extreme weather or breakdowns, when delays to an inward bound train results in the cancellation of the return working. A spare train can result in a departure from say Paddington running as normal despite the incoming service being delayed.

You paying to keep them maintained & drivers/guards trained? Coz I'm not

I think private charter companies such as Riveira Trains will take any spare HSTs going that can be hired out when required. I have a feeling though that all spare HSTs after Scotrail have theirs will all be put back into frontline service. They are just too valuable to scrap.

It's because all/most* of the trains that pass through Cardiff Queen St, have a previous stop at Central, from where on match days they would be full and standing.

It's just easier to funnel everyone through Central. Closing QS presumably also frees up a few extra staff from there to help with the queuing system etc. at Central.

As I recall, QS does not have the luxury of a large open area at the front of the station for managing crowds either.

* delete as applicable, I can't recall if there are some trains that go direct to QS without passing through Central.

Only the Cardiff Bay branch line I think

Of course, from posts above it sounds like Riviera trains are providing mark 2 rolling stock for extra services in connection with rugby world cup matches this year. In future though, I wonder if this will be permissable given the introduction of PRM TSI laws in 2020. IC125s might be newer than mark 2s, but it would still be hugely expensive to make them compliant with the new regulations. Heritage charters might get an exemption, but crowd-buster extra services on the day-to-day railway might have to comply.

PRM TSI = Persons of Reduced Mobility Technical Specification for Interoprability, I believe.

The prime reason for closure of Queen St is Safety.   Especially with some platforms narrow in places, the numbers could not be accommodated. 

Timmer I owe you an apology - you were right - last train to Cardiff leaves Paddington at 10pm.......just as the final whistle will be blowing at Twickenham.....expect to see some very unhappy Welshmen in London tomorrow night, especially after they've lost to England, being unable to get home will just rub salt into their wounds!

Why? They'll have known about this from when they booked their mstch tickets that there was no way home afterwards by train..so alternative arrangements will have already been made.

Anyone caught out shouldn't simply have assumed without checking frankly

Ah, but this is Joe Public we're talking about! I bet there will be a fair few folk wandering around Paddington and/or Reading late on Saturday night wondering where/how to spend the night...

I bet there won't be....

Or expect a long queue waiting at Paddington for the first train Sunday morning !!!

According to this news report, (http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Rugby-fans-met-train-chaos-England-game/story-27867575-detail/story.html) RWC2015 looked more to additional coach provision for Twickenham back to Wales rather than the train. GWR in its comments indicates fewer than 2% of the tickets were bought from Welsh addresses.

Welsh assembly politicians (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/edwina-hart-tells-train-firms-10129510) have also waded in on the Cardiff-hosted games.

There's complaints on Twitter already from people attending.

Ahh, but did they engage with the train company in the planning stage to try & improve the offering? Just when they might have scored, I bet they were silent!

What GWR is advising on their RWC page:
https://www.gwr.com/rugby-world-cup-venue-guide

No need to apologise TaplowGreen, but thanks anyway  :). Just a shame that the last train is 10pm. Just adds to the expense of attending the match when needing to stay in a London hotel and on a Saturday night.

realtime trains is showing two late services from Paddington to Cardiff via Kemble on Saturday
23.30 IC36
23.59 1Z37
 

Well spotted, and because of that by the looks of it they have cancelled the 23:30 to Bristol.... however at the moment there is no connection from Swindon off the 23:30 but there is this...
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O28685/2015/09/26/advanced
Which I assume will connect at Swindon with the 23:30 for passengers heading towards Bristol

Delibrately not being advertised to prevent serious overcrowding

The ECS working is very fast (280mph) though still seems to take the usual time.

But there won't be any passengers at Paddington for these additionals.

Quite possibly not....but sensible planning, nonetheless

Really? So having told people to plan ahead, and then said "no trains to south Wales after the match", you run a couple of trains for idiots who didn't take any notice. That way you seriously hack off anyone who made very difficult or expensive other arrangements, or decided they couldn't go to the match at all.

And next time there a similar event, there will be loads of people saying "ignore what the website says - there will be trains they don't announce in advance". Brilliant as PR and planning.

Or you could call it moral hazard.

It's a short notice chance, if it's going to happen, as the STP train crew diagrams still have the train going to Bristol.

From the Western Daily Press (http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/apology-GWR-issues-new-advice-Rugby-World-Cup/story-27869137-detail/story.html?)

The western daily press appears to have a crystal ball or psychic powers. There has not been a game at Exeter yet. First Exeter game is Tuesday 29th.

According to FGW this morning, the 2330 is only going as far as Bristol.

My last word on this subject, and yes I am biased because I am a rugby player/fan for well over 30 years.

The failure of FGW to provide transport back to Wales after this match, which has been years in the planning, as well as other capacity issues so far in the tournament has been woeful...this is the 3rd biggest sporting event on the planet, all other agencies (so far) have pulled together and risen to the occasion, as so often it is the railways who are letting the side down.

To tell people "get a room and stay in London" says a lot about the culture and attitude to customer service of FGW which has no comprehension of the fact that those organisations which excel generally do so because they fit around the needs of their customers.

It takes more than a coat of paint and a new name for an organisation to change. The sneering attitude of some of the posters on here regarding this issue is unfortunate too.

Brunel proud? I somehow doubt it.

I wish all those attending the match at Twickenham tonight an enjoyable experience and a safe journey home, and also those enjoying the FGW jolly at Newbury racecourse, for which I'm relieved to see trains have been found from somewhere.

The organisers have to take the blame for scheduling the game at 20:00 on a Saturday at a ground with relatively poor public transport links compared with their other London options. If it had been in the afternoon there wouldn't have been any significant problem. Money talks, but they didn't seem to direct much in the direction of transport.

Yes, why on earth didn't they plan for an afternoon kick-off, or even early evening at 6/7pm so that it'd be easier to arrange additional services or use existing ones? 

Finding trains isn't an issue of course at that time of night, but finding the crew to work additional shifts that will take them well into the early hours of Sunday might well be, as might weaving around engineering possessions.  I'm surprised more hasn't been done though - the Olympics showed how the railway industry (including FGW) can plan for these events - remember all the late evening specials - so why not for the rugby - even though it's a much smaller event.

The organisers seem to have put their public transport faith in National Express for this game. I can see this to a certain extent as travelling back to Paddington from Twickenham takes about 45 mins normally without considering the walk to the station - effectively travelling in the wrong direction. It would only be an hour on the train to Reading.

For the Olympics the last train to Cardiff ran at 01:00 typically. If it takes 2 hours to clear the queue at Twickenham, then someone towards the back would barely make a train at that time if there were one.

Journeycheck is now showing the 23:30 diverted to Cardiff; an additional 23:59 to Cardiff and an additional 00:15 Reading to Bristol TM (presumably to replace the diverted 23:30).

Just spotted this on Journey Check

There appears to be confusion arising regarding this evening's service at the GWRhelp twitter office

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/647740656954273793

Network Rail are closing the Severn Tunnel for engineering works and wouldn't postpone the works. 

Running (If - with the confusion) via Gloucester.

Well, I'm now totally confused as to what GWR will run, and the evidence suggests so are they. So is RTT - or its feed source - according to which 1C36 (the 23:30) is now a Schr^dinger's train. It is shown as going to both Cardiff and Bristol, so we will have to wait until is has been observed to find out which train is real and which (along with all its passengers) was only an unrealised possibility.

Twitter still saying last one is "currently" at 10pm (note "currently"), I think it depends on who you ask to be honest......complete shambles.

...........meanwhile elsewhere;

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/rugby-world-cup-2015-welsh-10138899

That's not a staff member, if they were staff they would know the HST's used today would have ample time to return to London empty tonight if they wanted to run extra services for the Rugby.  Both staff trains used today arrive in Plymouth and Swansea between 18:00 and 19:00.

Scurrilous, probably by an RMT official.

All staff were invited as Dan Paynes confirms in the article

Whilst it has been changing throughout the day it appears to be confirmed by RTT that the 23:30 will run to Cardiff, with a connection off that and from Twickenham services via the 00:13 from Reading to Bristol, with a final 23:59 from Pad to Cardiff. I wonder how many will know about these services and how well they will be utilised?

Please note that whilst the Bristol option is still there, it has had cancelled in the header all day, ever since the Cardiff option was introduced

Being reported on RailUK forums that a connecting train will run from Swindon to Bristol off the 23.30 which will continue onto Cardiff. This is showing up on RTT as 1Z36 Dep 0048

The 23:30 from Padd has a set allocated to it but currently no staff, be it for Bristol or Cardiff.  

The 23:59 Padd to Cardiff is, I'm guessing, an unadvertised back-up plan.  If you advertise the 23:59 passengers will aim to catch that service, and if you get too many passengers you might end up leaving passengers behind you've then got a bit of a problem!

1Z36 is duplicated in the system also showing 00:13 Reading to Bristol TM - HST running empty from Bristol to Reading to form the service

Looking at the GWR Twitter feed, they are saying the reason for not running extra services tonight is due to lack of rolling stock not the fact that the Severn Tunnel is closed. With the news out that two trains were used for the staff day out (even though we know they could get back to Paddington on time to take people home) this is pouring oil on troubled waters saying this is due to lack of stock. Are GWR trying to protect Network Rail's stubbornness for not postponing the work due to take place tonight?

I find Network Rail's decision strange as they are usually very good for trying to work engineering work around major events.

I guess that officially it is Journey Planner that is the most definitive source, apart from last-minute cancellations. That still thinks the 23:30 goes to Bristol, and is the last train via Swindon.

They are being explicit about engineering works now.

Should they run (after all the rumours or otherwise) they don't require the Severn Tunnel.   The tunnel closure is a lame excuse as they are routed via Gloucester.

Well, I think the travelling Welsh contingent may just decide to stay in London and celebrate all night.

What about England fans from other parts of the country? Are they any better off getting home?

The Welsh fans won't be needing any form of transport go get home tonight...they won't be going home tonight!

On being directly questioned re these two trains, FGW now states they are only in place as a contingency.

Last Virgin West Coast service left Euston at 21:43!

Oh dear.  :P  ;) ;D

Given the result I'm not sure Welsh fans will be too worried about getting home after all!  ;)

Last train with a connection to our town scheduled at 20:00 from Paddington.  Except Real Time Trains shows it was running late and the connection missed ...

A TransWilts colleague attended the match. Due to the issues getting home, his party have booked a hotel a short distance from the ground (I dread to think how much that will have cost) and they are travelling home in the morning for the TransWilts CIC board meeting.

JourneyCheck now shows the changes to the 23:30:
Which is not exactly true - the train only runs to Cardiff (assuming it has a driver) because of an expected "crowd". The diversion was missing from its previous, short-lived, mention here.
Nothing about a new Bristol service.

An "expected crowd" isn't in the system as a cause though.  All delay causes are not free form entries as they all have a delay code attributed to them for the purposes of apportioning delay minutes to the relevant company or department.

... but it was on Twitter some time ago:

No explanation, or apology, for the appearance of these trains at the last minute.

That's true, but this was GWR explaining its decisions to its customers - I don't see why that needs to be limited to standard delay attribution labels. For an external cause, where they might be seen to be blaming someone else, standard text could be safer.

It's managing demand in the only way they can.  Advertise the services in advance and they'll be swamped leaving many passengers on the platform and a lot of upset. 

Blame is being attributed elsewhere to the IRB, RFU and broadcasters for scheduling the match when they did. Also there may be issues around communication and planning between those bodies and the rail industry.

None of that excuses or absolves GWR for the shambolic last minute faffing around they've done today. They are a mass public transport operator and this major sporting event, with this fixture in particular, hasn't crept up on them unannounced. There is absolutely no need for them to have been reactive today. They should have been proactive months ago, ensuring additional services were scheduled, listing them in publications and advertising them widely. Along with lots of positive messages along the lines of "Going to England v Wales? GWR will get you home."

Instead, all they've done is projected the message (to some, not all I'll concede - festival fans are regularly accommodated) that, yet again, they, and the rail industry generally, are too hidebound to actually do much beyond the normal timetable. That'll be the opinion of many Welsh Rugby fans who either had to stay in London, drive or take a coach home tonight.

Of course the result tonight may actually be good news for GWR. I predict Paddington may be somewhat busier in the morning with lots of tired but happy Welsh heading home after a night on the tiles.

Finally, excuses about rolling stock and staffing. Piffle.

And seven other Ps.

So would you be happy if GWR cancelled services in the morning because the staff were not available because they worked during the night?

GWR could employ spare crew to just sit around until nights like this, but that would cost money and if that was what the franchise demanded that would mean they would pay less premium to DfT.

SWT were doing quite well most of the evening, until:

The earlier of those will not now connect with the first new last Cardiff train, but both should make it for the train balai at 00:32  if it runs ... which it does.

GWR could have rostered crews for this known about event months ago. No need for crews to be sitting around. That isn't the seven Ps. There's one more. Proactive.

Next excuse? Network Rail?

A new National Rail ("Britain's Train Companies Working Together") advert with the following tagline should run through the remainder of the Rugby World Cup:

"Welcome to National Rail. We have a can't do attitude. Along with apologists to back up said attitude."  ::) ::) ::)

For the record, those Cardiff trains ...

1C36 waited at Reading for the delayed 2Z63 from Twickenham, and left 11 late at 00:17.
1Z37 left 3L at 00:42, all its SWT connections having arrived.

I wonder how many passengers they had?
A policy of running two very late-night trains, but lying to the public that there will be none until a couple of hours beforehand, seems guaranteed to avoid getting much revenue towards their cost. On odd way to run a railway, or a business; so are they (First or GWR), as is often said, motivated solely by profit?

They haven't lied, they simply managed demand.  If they had advertised that the 23:30 would be running through to Cardiff how many passengers would have turned up at Reading expecting to get on it?  more importantly, how many passengers would they have left behind?
If such things as realtime trains hadn't existed no one would have been the wiser.  It seems though the train companies get slated for have no contingency.... and when they do have a contingency they get slated again. Can't win.
Obviously crews were rostered otherwise these extra trains wouldn't have run

Edited:  Just to add, the two sets used stabled at Cardiff overnight.  One will return to St Phillips Marsh arriving around 0900 and the other set runs back empty to Old Oak arriving 1100.  That's two sets that probably won't be used today.  There would have been no other room at Cardiff to stable any more extra services overnight.

As a (small) business, we will turn down the opportunity of customers, even where we have resources that could be deployed and are otherwise lying idle, in some circumstances.   If our team has doubt as to the integrity of a (potential) customers and whether our product is what they need, they'll turn them down.  That's (a) because we want our guests to be thrilled with what they buy, (b) because we want out facilities treated with respect and (c) because we don't want other customers disturbed.  A quick income one night could cause major expense and heartache an simply aren't worth it.

Ironically, late last night I had a very very rare case which lead me to question whether guests should be with us - although in this case they had checked in (at 11:30 in the morning) with no indication of problems - nice couple.   We give people electronic keys to get it, but at around 11 p.m. I was awoken from the door intercom with a demand to be let in - the young lady swearing like a trooper, with no proof / confirmation she was the guest in that room, and engaged in a heated discussion on her mobile phone which clearly had a faulty microphone because it had to be yelled at (or perhaps phones need that in Wales where she comes from).  Not best pleased when I checked her name just to make sure.  Partner arrives about 15 minutes later, he has a card and lets himself in, but appears not capable of closing the door behind him (I expect she does that at home) and goes up to the room and they have a 'domestic' ... probably no more that 15 to 20 minutes, but it seemed to go on an age.  Don't know what we will find this morning - but at least they are prepaid!

It's unique for me to talk about / quote experiences in this way, and I am being very careful indeed not to say anything that could lead to a revealing of identity. I do wonder if there could be some relationship to the Rugby game in the behaviour shown, and it's a really good illustration of where I would have been prepared to take a loss rather than risk my facilities.  Once checked in, it's harder to chuck people out and there can be co-lateral damage and expense; better simply to complete product delivery.

No statement / defence or support of GWR's actions and decisions up to last night's service.  Just a view from a slightly different angle as to why it's occasionally sensible for a business to turn away - even - someone who walks up with a wad of cash.  And such actions may not only protect the business, but can also in some circumstances protect the [potential] customer from buying product not suited to them.

A less than perfect PR picture I admit, but. Some thoughts in railway's defence.

1) You assume that there are crews that can be rostered to extra late night services without cancelling some other service the following day(s) even if staff volunteered for them.

2) That missed maintenance would not affect reliability in the following days services


3) So they cancel that possession on the Severn Tunnel and the electrification project gets further behind time and over budget! One justification for spending all that money on redoubling Swindon to Kemble was to provide a diversion for when the tunnel was closed for engineering works!

In the words of BNM, "piffle".

An organisation so inflexible that it is unable to prepare for events like this despite months/years notice has serious structural problems....all the rostering/maintenance/project issues you highlight could/should have been accommodated given this timeline.

Customers were consistently lied to - all week the line was "the last train will be at 2200" so people booked (in many cases) very expensive accommodation based on this advice, only for later trains to be run.......the excuse that "it's demand management, too many people would have turned up" is more piffle.

Overall, a PR and operational disaster - FGW couldn't give a damn about its customers, that much is clear - the fact that on the same day trains were available to ferry its staff to a jolly at Newbury racecourse is exquisite irony.

Total piffle, as you say!

Would it have been better if thousands had turned up for those two trains and couldn't be carried?? stranded, with no accomodation booked??

How many trains do you think (@500? A train) should have been put on? With all crews unable to work either Saturday or Sunday timetabled trains?

Sorry, it was the connercial decision to schedule the game last night - organisers knew it wasn't possible to arrange sufficient transport to get lokely travellers home, but they took the TV companies money. Blame them

Journey planner currently showing the 2330 last night is still running late, expected to Cardiff 1460 minutes late. Clearly a typo as it arrived about 60 late.

Fgw are getting a lot of stick for lack of services, but there few trains they did run were a lot more than were available to most other destinations from London. Everyone seems worried about the Welsh fans getting home, but what about the English fans- no trains to anywhere north of Peterborough, or banbury in their respective directions.

I have previously remarked that increasingly we have a"fair weather only railway" with services disrupted by even slightly adverse weather, during which roads and airlines seem unaffected.

In addition we now seem to have a railway that cant cope with anything out of the ordinary, and finds long planned sporting events an unreasonable burden.

You cant expect a seat in the rush hour, too many choose to travel to work, and choose jobs with normal working hours. We cant buy extra rolling stock for just a couple of hours a day.

You cant expect a seat in the summer holiday season, we cant buy extra rolling stock for just a few summer weekends.

You cant expect a seat at around the Christmas holiday season (or even a train in many cases) we cant buy extra rolling stock just for Christmas.

You cant expect a seat, or even a train for major sporting events, we cant buy extra rolling stock just for sporting events.

You cant expect a seat if travelling to Glastonbury, we cant buy extra rolling stock for an event that happens just once a year.

Elsewhere on these forums I have doubted the adequacy of the new shorter trains. I have no doubt that they will be fine on some routes, outside of the rush hours, not during holiday periods, and provided that no popular sporting or cultural event is taking place in the area.
After all, we cant make any allowance for peak demands can we.

The DfT had a perfect opportunity here with the IEP order.  Buy a few extra units that remain spare, not allocated to an operator but can be spot hired to either GWR or VTEC when needed

That's pretty much what will sort of happen.

The agreement with Hitachi is that they'll deliver daily a set number of trains for the diagrams being run by the TOCs. They will however have some that won't be out on a daily badis, ostensibly under maintenance but I'm sure will be made available should a failure or failures occur. I suspect these can be had by the TOCs on a (planned) basis adhoc too

Look we have a railway that was run down for the war years and then for 45 years thereafter by the public sector on the basis that they were managing an inevitable decline of an old fashioned out of date form of transport. Capacity was taken out while is was still being used and services reduced to match the reduced capacity.  Swindon Station was reduced to a single platform in 1966 and was to expect one train every 2 hours. That is the sort of service the infrastructure was designed for!

Trains order were kept to the minimum so we have no spare trains. The old GWR kept old trains in sidings for special occasions - they have all gone long before privatisation! The UK has a small loading gauge so every order is a special to some extent. It is therefore very difficult to just go buy a few trains off the shelf.  Attempts to do so have created some unreliable trains (180's). 

The rail industry is not in an unfettered private sector world. They do not have the freedom that the supermarkets or the other customer service organisations have. Franchises are let by DfT on a tender basis so anyone offering too much customer service will automatically be rejected on price. So on customer service we get what DfT are prepared to pay for. Which is obviously not what we would like. 

Now we have unprecedented demand and some capacity has been restored (e.g. Swindon to Kemble) but basically we are running every once out of the infrastructure we have. At the same time train diagrams are being run with no room for failure.  That is the sort of railway DfT has created.  GWR cannot order new trains unless DfT let them.  Network rail does not have the capacity or the money to add capacity any faster. 

So of course we have a fair weather railway - What else do you expect?  If you want anything else it will cost big money and you will have to wait for it to be built.

Yes the Rugby World Cup was organised a while ago, but how recently were the times of the matches at each location known? 

Network Rail is being beaten up because they are not getting on with improvements fast enough yet every few months weeks people on this board demand that they down tools to allow special trains to run. You cannot have your cake and eat.

Some of our more outspoken members need to just get real. 

I am not saying that GWR's communications have been good over the last few days, but they are doing it with at least two arms tied behind their backs by DfT. 

And you'll have to pay from any increases in rollong stock....

It would make a lot of sense to have a common pool of rolling stock that could be utilised by TOC's when needed. Just thinking of our own local TOC the following events immediately spring to mind that would benefit from such a move:-  Cheltenham Gold Cup,  Millennium Stadium matches and other events, Glastonbury, Dawlish & Weston Air Shows, Bath Christmas Market, and so on.

Then if you extrapolate that across all the other TOC's, it would appear that there would be fairly regular usage. Not enough to justify new stock, but if older stock, where the capital cost has been recovered and it's just maintenance (and profit), then maybe it could be viable?

Though it would need a leasing company to take a risk, which is probably why it won't happen, especially if the stock needs a lot of work to make it compliant with the new accessibility regulations. This would mean a much greater investment with a relatively uncertain income flow, and thus much less attractive to shareholders.

Yes it would make sense, perhaps when we have the IEP, but we seem to need the older stock just to run the normal services at the moment.

And yet, despite the assets being apparently sweated and the operator being hamstrung by the DfT, they managed to find two HSTs and two Turbos for additional services for the staff outing.

England v Wales at 8pm was known about at least 3 months ago. That's time enough to arrange rosters, adjust maintenance, timetable and advertise additional services. We're not talking about a weekday peak either where rolling stock may be at a premium, but end of service on a Saturday. No need, in this instance, for stock from a common pool, just adjustments to diagrams.

Is that getting real, or really impossible?

I'll pose the question again....just how many HSTs (approx 500 pax each) do you consider would have offered everyone wanting to travel a seat?.....

In the last few minutes, I've received the following email from GWR (timed at 20:33 on 27th September 2015)......


Is this a rogue that was sent out weeks ago and only just received (I've been on the FGW/GWR mailing list since I don't know when!) or has GWR finally realised it needs to communicate!

It has already been mentioned that late trains needed to be stabled in Cardiff and there was no further room.  I assume they also missed some maintenance since they were not at their depot. You talk abut adjusting maintenance as if it were ever so simple.  When you are working a fleet to the maximum capacity rescheduling maintenance is not always possible.  So perhaps it is impossible if you want the trains to actually work for the day job next week.

Again you seem to talk about rostering as if it were simply about putting a rota together and telling people to come in. The working hours of crews are regulated and even if you can get them to work that might stop them doing the day job again.  It all depends how much spare crews you have? 

How tolerant would you be if peak hour services on Monday were cancelled because of lack of crew, because they had been working on Saturday Night? Or of trains that were cancelled due to failures brought on by delayed maintenance. 

Your world seems to be very black and white the real world is seldom ever like that and I suspect the extra services that have been run have been a difficult decision involving many compromises.

I stand by my original statement about getting real.   

Several would help, perhaps four or five.
Not everyone will use the train.

I would have arranged extra services and advertised these as full fare only, book in advance only.
When the approx. 500 tickets per train have been sold, "sorry, sold out"

As I have already said, I feel that the railway could be better at coping with special events, but this costs money and those travelling at such times may have to pay higher fares.
Discounted fares should be a bonus for those travelling at less busy times, and not become an entitlement at busy times.

For example, I have very little sympathy with those who stated that "anytime tickets should not have been sold" IMHO, only anytime/full fare tickets should be sold if demand is likely to exceed supply.

Therein lies another problem - are the TOCs allowed to sell Anytime tickets for trains on a Saturday night when restrictions allow off peak/super off peak tickets which are sold by time bands rather than specific trains - ie after 1900 weekdays and all weekend?

 

Last minute stabling stabling at Cardiff was an issue. Agreed. But... planning.

Crews were found and rostered for 3 additional HSTs and a couple of Turbos for extra curricular activities yesterday. But somehow impossible to do the same later for farebox contributing passengers.

Those HSTs were presumably taken off their usual diagram/maintenance cycle, the Turbos covered additional mileage. But somehow impossible to do the same later for farebox contributing passengers.

Your world seems equally black and white. As an apologist for the can't do attitude displayed by GWR toward farebox contributing passengers. My world questions why additional services couldn't have been restored late night with forward planning. The same forward planning that was presumably done for Newbury and Tenby. FGW also managed to do forward planning of additional late night services for the Olympics.

Yesterday it seems that a staff jolly and spot hire were far more important to GWR than the nuts and bolts job of being a mass public transport provider.

The fixture list with venues and kick off times was released in 2012. Some would show for example as England vs qualifier 1 where 8 teams were still playing qualification games when the fixtures were released.

any team that finish top 3 in the previous World Cup pools automatically qualify for next World Cup.

Run it as a private charter, advance tickets only. Private charter will allow the operator to charge as much as they like though.

A lot of comments on here seem to relate to either:
A.) How much the railway should cater to customers^ & event organisers^ requirements?
Or:
B.) How much customers and event organisers should adapt their behaviour to suit the railways?

If, as we are told, ^The railway belongs to the region it serves^ I would suggest that statement A should be the case.

You can blame organisers for late kick off times (I presume they have their reasons), you can also blame Dawlish for having an air show, Glastonbury for having a music festival, seaside resorts for being popular in the summer, blame people for wanting to travel anywhere, blame geographical features such as hills and rivers for being in the way, in fact you can blame anything that doesn^t fit neatly into ^convenient^ travel operating patterns. These things are part of a thing called Life and if you^re running a business or service, (any business or service), if you don^t meet customers^ needs then usually someone else, with more acumen and more adaptability, will take that business from you.
 :o

On the contrary in my world solutions have positives and negatives and these must be balanced to find the best solution - this is shades of grey not black and white. Since the posts - as so often the case - assumed that solutions were straightforward, I was trying to put few considerations forward that you might not have considered, without repeating the other sides of the arguments already put.  It seems that you do not wish to consider them.  

I think some of the respondents have pointed out other issues that make some of the simple solutions suggested not possible.  


Here there seems on the face of it a case to answer. I hope others who know more will provide more light on this.


The biggest difference with the Olympics was that it happened during the summer holidays when not only were many regular users on holiday, but others who occasionally used those routes had planned to avoid this.

The Olympics caught the national mood in a way that the RWC has not.  Everyone knew about the Olympics long in advance and events were planned to avoid this period. Staff holidays could also be planned to avoid this period to some extent. I certainly had no meetings in London during that time.  

Unless you are a Rugby fan I suspect like me the RWC took you a bit by surprise.  The RWC is also happening at a time when the railway is hard at work on its day job. Cancelling trains to use them elsewhere is not as easy in September as it is in July.  


Of course A should be the aspiration.  I am just saying that doing that may not always be possible and even if it is it may have an undue impact on another set of regular customers.  So which customers do you please.  I am sure there would justifiably be howls of protest if the extra services came at the expense of the Maidenhead stoppers!

That sounds a good idea, and whilst the charter operator COULD charge as much as they want, in the interests of simplicity, charging the full normal fare for the journey might a good idea.

Very true.

Also important to remember for those complaining about the organisers having "late" kick offs in RWC that there are often 3 matches taking place on the same day, so they are being staggered for a good reason.....can you imagine the reaction if all three matches kicked off on a Saturday at 2.30pm/finished at 4pm in (for example) Cardiff, Twickenham and Gloucester? Can you imagine the demands on FGW's resources before/after the matches if that was the case and the inevitable laments about "why didn't they stagger the kick offs?"

Obviously the RWC was never going to "catch the mood" like the Olympics, nothing else is on that scale but to get a World record crowd of 90,000 people watching Ireland v Romania on a Sunday is pretty outstanding, and I note that Paddington is bedecked with RWC bunting so I guess one or two people may have noticed it.

I concur with others on Chris B's point, run these "special event" trains advance reservations only, not turn up and go, this would appear to have been a solution for last Saturday rather than the will they/won't they debacle which occurred eventually.

Finally............there is never, ever, under any circumstances any excuse for any organisation lying to its customers as was the case with FGW on Twitter and elsewhere about the timings of its last trains on Saturday just gone.

Disagree, sorry. If they'd been asvertised without instigating advance sales only, they'd have been seriously oversubscribed and many been stranded with no accomodation. A far worse (the worst?) situation

From further back up the thread, relating to games at Exeter's Sandy Park...


I had a good long chance to study this poster this morning, having arrived on the Down sleeper and waiting for my taxi (aka my good lady, wife!).  It is very badly worded and I cannot say what actually happened for yesterday's game, but what I think is/was intended is 'Exmouth-bound trains will not stop at Digby and Sowton' and 'Exeter-bound trains will not stop at Newcourt' during the periods immediately before and immediately after games at Sandy Park.

If that was not the intention, then I believe, it should have been.

80 Coaches will be available at Cardiff tonight and tomorrow to shuttle to/from Bristol Parkway to supplement the train service.   Organised by RWC

I left the stadium at the final whistle (1845) and was on a 7 car unit to Taunton just after 1900.  With an HST leaving for BRI a few minutes later, that would have soaked up a large number of fans quickly. Somewhat disappointingly although 6 of the 7 cars were standing room only, the front one had no more than around 15 people in it, with ATW staff not distributing passengers effectively.

I notice that tonight there are 10 departures to London between 2229 and 0043 (although only 4 of those are advertised on National Rail).  Similarly there are 9 to BRI.  So it looks like a much better attempt has been made to cater for the expected demand, although disappointing that the planning couldn't have been better from the outset.

GWR tweeted that they have 22 trains leaving Cardiff after the game tonight, last one to London 0040. Helps to be a weekday night I guess

Good to see that lessons seem to have been learned by FGW.

It appears as though at least 4 of the London services were cancelled and returned ECS. So that's good as it would appear that everyone heading back managed to get on a service within an hour or so of full time. Though it does indicate the difficulty of judging the appropriate amount of provision to use.

I suspect many people were put off using rail because of the previous well publicised difficulties, and so made alternative arrangements. Together with the fact that only 4 of the services were shown, which would certainly have made me wary of actually being able to get on one.

Oh well, looks like we'll have to cheer on tournament co-hosts Wales then...

Member John R will no doubt accept our belated and grudging support, IndustryInsider ... ::)

Some praise from me after my day out on Friday when there was a Cardiff rugby game (I'm no kind of sports' fan so forgive any error in nomenclature).  There were clearly issues around re-arranged stock, diverted to serve the fans.  Thus one train from Exeter had extra stops put in, well advertised on the platform, but not communicated to the conductor until she got to Taunton. At Taunton, the usual evening platform arrangements were altered to use the island platforms for all north bound trains which enabled the staff to a) clearly direct passengers to the correct train and platform, b) walk along the train and inform people of the extra stops and c) be a presence to re-assure regulars and occasional travelers.  By bunching the staff together (and I assume having extra people at gone 20:00) in this way, some disgruntlement was diffused by explanations about coupling up units and reassurance that slightly delayed trains were on their way.

Here, I thought, was clear evidence of thinking about the effects of the rugby arrangements well outside the immediate area and obvious flows.  I'm sure not everyone's experience was good, but I was very gruntled!  ;D

Indeed I will... 

I would note that my vociferous cheering on of the Aussies last night (albeit from the comfort of my armchair) was purely tactical, given I don't reckon Wales stand much of a chance of beating them next weekend, so it was our best chance to progress.  And it's somewhat ironic that England's untimely exit is originally due to a Welsh loss against Australia 3 years ago, which meant they fell to 9th in the rankings a couple of days before the draw was made, and thus outside the seeds. Hence the Group of Death was born, which turned out to include the host nation.

Can't see us progressing beyond the quarters mind you, but who knows...

Good luck against the Aussies, they are on fire at the moment it seems!

In England's defence, the last two defeats were purely tactical, we are of course saving ourselves for the 6 Nations, which everyone knows is far more important!  ;)

Sounds like fun & games getting to Cardiff again today.....massive overcrowding, overrunning engineering & Severn tunnel blocked at the moment heading into Wales.

Here, I thought, was clear evidence of thinking about the effects of the rugby arrangements well outside the immediate area and obvious flows.  I'm sure not everyone's experience was good, but I was very gruntled! 

I am sure trainer would have even more gruntled if he could have pushed me on to the line. leaving me just dead chuffed ! ???

GWR have been thwarted at almost every turn this morning.

Several additional London Paddington to Cardiffs after it seems an agreement was reached to end the engineering work half an hour earlier than originally planned.  However some of the works over-ran the new finish time and caused delays.  Then one of the engineering trains broke down between Didcot and Swindon meaning at least one of the extra trains, already delayed, had to reverse to cross over and use the reversible signalling to get past the failed train.

Apparently at 8am there were around 1,500 people waiting for trains at Paddington.

There were more than that well before 0800!!! Pal of mine got there at 0730 and there were already very long queues....non existent/poor/inaudible information being provided to customers, most relying on Twitter to find out what was going on.

There are still delays but they seem to be easing....it's a shame because for once GWR seemed to have got their act together in terms of well publicised capacity/organisation, only to be let down by overrunning works.

Luckily its rugby fans rather than football hooligans!

.....and in other news......http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/rugby-world-cup-thousands-queue-for-trains-to-cardiff-after-engineering-works-overrun-a3093036.html

Looks like pretty much everyone would have made it in time for the 1pm kick-off.  All the GWR regular and additional trains had arrived by 12:35, with two charters arriving later at 12:45 and 12:57 - additional delays to those being caused by a trespasser near Swindon.

Agreed, Scotland desperately unlucky and that particular ref has been criticised in similar circumstances....hopefully the experience will help GWR prepare better for similar events at Cardiff come the 6 Nations.....they've got until 2017 when England play there again!!!

The 6 nations are fine as the majority of tickets are sold through the welsh rugby clubs, so there's a predictable minority of fans travelling from outside Wales, and the demand is reasonably well managed. For the World Cup it's been the majority of fans coming from across the border which has been the problem, as we saw for Team GB football in the Olympics.



 

Looking at the twitter it seems there was a final twist in that today more people stayed in Cardiff after the match rather than going straight to the station, so the queues were light initially and built up later after the services were thinning out again.

Members of SWRS saw two top and tailed loco hauled sets through Slough Maidenehad on Saturday presummed going to Cardiff. Both believed to have 67 on front definitely 66 on rear.

One East anglian set the other NSE?

Anyone confirm

Back on topic then, and contrary to what a lot of people thought, GWR DID in fact produce some comprehensive guidelines for those travelling to RWC matches.....

That must've been a slow day at work for you, TG  ;D ;)

You over estimate my abilities! Sadly I can't claim the credit for it, I was just a recipient!!! ;)

There were 3 trains formed 66+67 as seen.   The Stock would have been a mixture.

Rugby World Cup transport chaos inquiry - BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34594597)