Great Western Coffee Shop

This week I have been travelling from London Marylebone to Aylesbury and for for part of the journey (mainly after Amersham I think) it would seem that the Chiltern services run on the same track as the Metropolitan line services. Am I right?

I'm only curious because I imagine only one organisation can be responsible for operational aspects such as signalling.

Harrow on the Hill to Amersham - LU don't go beyond there.

LU responsible for track & signals between those.

...with (IIRC) the Chiltern sets fitted with trainstops to work with the LUL signalling systems.

Likewise Richmond to Gunnersbury and the odd ECS or late night train between East Putney and Wimbledon

North of Queens Park the Bakerloo also runs on NR infrastructure.

The District between Wimbledon and East Putney (mentioned above) is unusual in that although it was sold to LU at privatisation, but is still maintained and operated (signalled) by NR staff under a long term contract.   This is probably why mainline stock using the line is not tripcock fitted and does not use the trainstops, historically speaking it is LU that are the visitors, and they do use trainstops.

Paul

Bakerloo from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone is shared with London Overground heavy rail services between Euston and Watford.

EDIT: Beaten to it by paul7755

Indeed not, through the District Line used to go to Aylesbury and beyond to Verney Junction & Brill until the 1930s. 

Do you mean the Metropolitan Line, perchance?

I did wonder :)

Yes of course.  My mistake.  Never operated by tube trains as such as they were steam hauled beyond Rickmansworth.

What are trainstops and tripcocks?

Also, what about places where trams and 'full size' trains run on the same track?

A device which automatically applies the brakes if a train passes a signal at danger (and I believe are also used in a speed control role on approaches to junctions), and also used on the approach to a terminus to ensure that trains will not hit headwalls or buffer stops at speed.

More in-depth description and some pics on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_stop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_stop)

The Waterloo and City 750V DC is derived from Network Rail the electric control is NR as well, rest is LU

W & C was part of network South East until BR was privatised. 

Are there any in the UK?  I understood there's an issue with robustness / crumple zones of a tram when in collision with a train ... I'm thinking Croydon, Nottingham, Dublin, Birmingham, Manchester, Seaton, Blackpool, Edinburgh, Sheffield and can't think of shared tracks at all. Always kick the trains off when trams come along.

I don't think there are either.

As previous posters have said not at the moment although I'm not sure if the Sheffield Huddersfield is still down for tram train.

But it's not a true tram train because it won't run onto the town network in Sheffield and won't share tracks with mainline trains.

Tram trains are found in Germany standard gauge around Karlsruhe and Kassel and meter gauge at Norhausen.

I've travelled on a steam special (Class 50) on one of the Karlsruhe lines (S31, S41) to Baiersbronn the line being electrified at 16 2/3 Kv (Standard mainline voltage)  and also on the Kassel Dual Voltage trams.

The Karlsruhe network is 73 kms town and 430 kms Regio! and has approx 120 dula voltage trams.

Kassel has both dual voltage 18 and 10 Electro Diesel trams. network is 48 kms town 20 interurban and 133 Regio both electric and ED.

Nordhausen has 3 ED trams sharing tracks (11Kms)  with 1897 0-4-4-0 Mallets.

I think the Germans think their safety systems will prevent any collisons between trams and trains and therfore it doesn't matter about having crumple zones.

Of course the problems of running cars and trains on the same track are well known...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0CmjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0CmjY)

Nexus Tyne & Wear metro trains use NR Infrastructure between Pelaw and Sunderland.  The track from Sunderland to South Hylton is Metro only, but signalled by NR from Tyneside IECC.
(though I agree that Tyne&Wear aren't trams)

There's a tram-train trial proposed for Sheffield, extending the Supertram over NR metals to Rotherham Central.

There's a recently-installed Ground Frame connecting NR to LU at Barking, between platforms 1 and 2. This allows LUL engineering trains to come from their ballast dump at, wait for it, Wellingborough.

Manchester Metro do use old NR metals, certainly up to Bury. However the trains run no longer & I'm not sure who now signals/maintains those tracks

So do Croydon's trams. And a number of others use old trackbeds - such as Birmingham and Seaton.  On some systems such as Croydon, extreme measures such as a flyover have been added in (Mitcham Junction) to replace a previous pair of rail junctions where the main line from London joined the line from Wimbledon, then branched off it again. And Birbeck to Beckenham Junction is now single track tram and single track heavy rail, I believe.

I was hoping that was going to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XEVvVRB_4 !

Wow! This forum has a wealth of knowledge! Thanks all.  :)

The Waterloo and City was transferred to LUL in 1994, the transfer had been agreed well before BR privatisation commenced.

Red Flag Act repealed 1896. Orange Jacket Act introduced 1994!

Is that the proposed pacer replacement ?

Why would mainline trains would use this stretch? Presumably it's to get to Wimbledon depot. Looking at Google maps it would seem that you can only get there from the Wandsworth and Clapham Junction direction. The quicker route from Clapham is the direct route via Earlsfield though. It doesn't make sense to me.

The main problem is with Wimbledon depot's location alongside the main fast pair of tracks, so after the peaks down empty trains from Waterloo to the depot would have to cross three tracks to reach it.  Basically impossible to timetable.  By running via Wandsworth they can use the down side of the Windsor lines, and 'take a left' onto the District and then into the depot, causing much less conflicts.

A list of services from realtime trains shows that during most of the day when LU are running the SWT ECS services are nearly all down direction, they operate as though it is a one way loop, IYSWIM...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/ZPU/2015/10/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=SW

It may surprise people to see there are half a dozen SWT passenger services along the District, nearly all in the hours of darkness, for route knowledge purposes for non-Wimbledon drivers.

Paul

I have recently seen a photograph taken on the Manchester Metrolink of a ELR steam engine hauling a ballast train during an overnight possession. It was taken in the last year. There is still a connection with the ELR at Buckley Wells south of Bury and the East Lancashire Railway were contracted to supply a diesel locomotive for scheduled engineering work. At the appointed time the diesel was still undergoing maintenance so the steamer was successfully substituted.