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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: ChrisB on October 21, 2015, 09:51:59



Title: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: ChrisB on October 21, 2015, 09:51:59
Campaign for Better Transport are launching a SW group in Bristol on Saturday 14 November and are looking for interested persons to get involved....free lunch!

http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/whats-your-beef-with-transport-in-the-south-west-help-us-launch-new-transport-group-tickets-18822216757

Quote
Event Details

What's your beef with transport in the South West?

This conference is for anyone who:
^wants to make a difference and change things for the better
^is currently campaigning to stop a road scheme in their local area, or expects to face a road proposal in the near future
^opposes bus cuts which are leaving the vulnerable, poor and those without a car isolated and disenfrachised
^wants to see rail connections improved with London and the rest of the country
^supports suburban rail and connections to market towns being improved
^fed up with the lack of money being spent on walking and cycling
^concerned about air pollution and other health issues

The relaxation in planning regulations is resulting in sprawling suburban housing estates (swallowing up large amounts of countryside) which generate more car traffic and pollution as it's not viable for public transport operators to serve low density developments. Many of these estates are being built on the edges of market towns which themselves are poorly served by public transport, exacerbating the situation further.

Meanwhile the one rail link to the far South West remains vulnerable to coastal erosion and service interuptions and the idea of a second line to Devon and Cornwall is dismissed as too expensive.  Within the region, there is little or no investment in suburban rail services and connections to market towns.

In stark contrast, money, it seems, is almost no object for road schemes, as the Government and unelected Local Enterprise Partnerships plan to spend billions of pounds on new roads over the next few years. As a result, roads that were cancelled years ago are rising from the dead, threatening to increase traffic, pollute our air, and destroy some of our most valuable countryside. Examples include the A417 in the Cotswolds AONB, the A303 through Stonehenge World Heritage Site and Blackdown Hills AONB.

(You can find out what's planned in your area by checking our online map)

It would seem as though there is one rule for roads and one for public and local transport.  Are you prepared to let this continue?

Help us launch new transport group

The conference will include:
^Views on why a new group for the South West could start to improve things
^An independent view on national and regional transport policy
^Discussion as to the key transport/planning issues in the South West
^Prioritisation of what the new group will work on
^Next steps

Please note, tickets are free and lunch and refreshments will also be provided on the day, but most delegates are expected to fund their own travel expenses. We have a small amount of money available to help with travel expenses for those who would otherwise not be able to attend.

Capacity is limited so please book early - this will also help us with our catering requirements.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on October 21, 2015, 11:17:48
Thanks, Chris ... venue is Hamilton House, 80 Stokes Croft , BS1 3QY Bristol.

Signup form insists you answer about special dietary requirements ... and doesn't offer "no special requirements" as an option. So meeting appears to be for vegans, vegetarians and those with allergies only  ;D


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 21, 2015, 11:35:09
Yes, I spotted that. I chose 'Other'. Always find badly thought-out forms a bit offputting. Hey ho.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: JayMac on October 21, 2015, 20:49:22
What's my beef with the transport in the South West?

It's either the fillet steak or the braised ox cheek.  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: bobm on October 21, 2015, 23:12:12
Ox cheek was off - the 12:06 from Paddington had the smaller kitchen so one of the dishes had to go....


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 22, 2015, 01:27:16
Do TravelWatch SouthWest have any involvement / input with this proposed new transport group in ... err, the South West?


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on October 22, 2015, 07:03:37
Do TravelWatch SouthWest have any involvement / input with this proposed new transport group in ... err, the South West?

The new group launch appears to be a Campaign for Better Transport initiative / lead, and I've not seen any evidence of other leads. As well as seeing it advertised here, I've heard about it from a local CBT 'rep', with a request to publicise - no mention of TWSW.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: ChrisB on October 22, 2015, 10:22:21
I think these are two different organisations - this new one will campaign for sure amongst the travelling public - TWSW doesn't get close to that.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on October 22, 2015, 12:39:30
I think these are two different organisations - this new one will campaign for sure amongst the travelling public - TWSW doesn't get close to that.

Yes - they are different.  I have booked for 14th November.   Effective progress in transport, along the lines that works for the travelling public, requires organisations that co-ordinate travellers, traveller groups, wannabe travellers, local and national government, operators of transport, providers of infrastructure and vehicles and more and gets them talking to each other; that's the TWSW remit.   

At times, kicking action requires strong campaigning groups and that's included "More Train less Strain", the White Horse Alliance, Save the Train, FOSBR, CBT and others.  Different beasts to TWSW, but all of whom are very welcome as members there, and will be effective if they're informed by communication channels.  It makes sense to know which doors are open and what the constraints are of the organisation(s) you're campaigning to - which doors are most likely to be openable , and that's where membership by the campaign organisations of things like TWSW is so beneficial all round.

"Save the Train" is where I started. Membership of TWSW has done so much over the years in helping inform us to ask for things that are deliverable, and to get us to where we are today.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 09, 2015, 10:17:38
Speaker list from my email ...

Quote
We just wanted to let you know that we have two great speakers for the day:

Dr Steve Melia - Senior Lecturer in Transport and Planning at University of the West of England who will be talking about the current transport landscape  [He is author of Urban Transport: Without the Hot Air published this year]
 
Stephen Joseph OBE ^ Chief Executive, Campaign for Better Transport who will talk about the launch of new group and its potential role.

Not sure if the launch is fully booked


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 14, 2015, 08:24:17
"Campaign for Better Transport" (with capitals) is a UK is a UK advocacy group - formerly known as Transport 2000 - with some very effective work and results to its credit.

"campaigning for better transport" (lower case) is what I've found myself - willingly - involved in over recent years.

Today, I'm taking my campaigning for better transport to a Campaign for Better Transport meeting in Bristol - so as I walked the dogs yesterday, I thought about "better transport".  It's looking for improvements in ...

Getting people, the things they want to take with them, and goods of all sorts from A to B when they want to go, where A and B are the places they need to be (and not just the nearest bus stop or station!) ...

Healthily
At low cost
At reasonable speed
Making effective use of their time as they travel
Environmentaly Friendly
Sustainably
Comfortably
Understandably
Reliabley
Flexibly
Safely
Economically.

Many of these overlap, and some compromise.   What have I forgotten?


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 14, 2015, 17:13:14
Melksham.  :P


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 14, 2015, 19:00:02
Melksham.  :P

He didn't forget Melksham - but he only mentioned it once or twice, and always in the wider context...  :)


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 14, 2015, 20:16:22
Home ... after an exhausting day.    I've notes from Steven Melia and Steven Joseph's talks which I've posted in "frequent posters" at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16462.0 - the quality of my text is diabolical and not fit for public consumption.

I will summarise the afternoon discussions if I get a chance tomorrow, or welcome a summary from Red Squirrel


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 14, 2015, 20:32:15
I've notes from Steven Melia and Steven Joseph's talks which I've posted in "frequent posters" at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16462.0 - the quality of my text is diabolical and not fit for public consumption.

That's why I've tried to edit your text there.  ::) ;) :o


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 14, 2015, 20:35:00
I've notes from Steven Melia and Steven Joseph's talks which I've posted in "frequent posters" at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16462.0 - the quality of my text is diabolical and not fit for public consumption.

That's why I've tried to edit your text there.  ::) ;) :o

Mooch apweciated, Chris!


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 15, 2015, 12:47:16
A very interesting day.

Apologies for repeating here some of what grahame has posted elsewhere, but I thought I'd add my slant on it.

Steve Melia, Senior Lecturer in Transport and Planning at UWE, gave a particularly thought-provoking presentation which called into question a lot of assumptions about how we try to justify investment in transport infrastructure. His research suggests that once a country has a network of sealed (i.e. surfaced) roads, further investment correlates, if anything, negatively with economic growth. But corellation is not causation, and failing to invest may lead to economic decline. Look after transport and the economy will look after itself.

It's hard to sell this kind of complex argument to political decision-makers!

He also found little evidence of modal shift following public transport investment: Build a tram system and people will use it, but any road space that gets freed up as a result will soon be used by more car journeys.

As one might have expected given his credentials, he was scathing about MetroBus which he described as a Trojan Horse road-building scheme. He suggested that the Stoke Gifford Relief Road will probably turn the mile-long queue on the M32 each morning into a 3-mile queue.

Stephen Joseph, Chief Executive of CBT, outlined the reasons for launching the new group: The region needs a voice to counter the multiple threats of falling bus subsidies, the upsurge in road-building and car-based developments where walking and cycling are marginalised. We need to find more efficient ways of spending limited budgets; for example what he described as 'Total Transport' where, school and hospital services (or their vehicles and drivers) can be used by the general public.

---

At the start of the day, we were invited to raise our transport issues using post-it notes. These were grouped during the morning to identify the key campaigning areas: rail, buses, integration, planning and governance.

The rest of the day was spent in these groups, identifiying the main campaigning threads that the new CBT group should pursue. The rail group concluded that it would be worthwhile to start by identifying and filtering through the many aspiring schemes to establish which were practical and then coordinate and guide them using methods that have worked elsewhere.

I'll leave it to grahame to expand on his group's activities.

It was recognised that there is some overlap between the activities of South West CBT, TravelWatch SouthWest and Railfuture; however a South West CBT group would be more focused on future transport options and strategies than TWSW, and would have a wider transport/planning brief than Railfuture.

As an aside, and perhaps influenced somewhat by Steve Melia's talk, air quality was identified as a key campaigning issue: A transport investment that appears not to stack up according to current (rather flawed, many of us agreed) BCR analysis could potentially be justified by its impact on air quality. This may be seen as a purely urban concern, but a lot of vehicles causing air polution in cities started their journey in the country.

---

At the conclusion it was agreed that there was a role for a South West CBT Group. The next step is to formally establish it and assign roles.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 15, 2015, 18:00:03
A very interesting day.

...

I'll leave it to grahame to expand on his group's activities.


Many thanks for that  ... should help take any rural bias out of what I post ;-)

Well ... I wanted to join bus, train and "governance and integration" (an interesting linkage), which is what I went for. Turned out to be in a minority of 1 wishing to look at the integration. However, much of the talk turned to the bus bill, which has the potential to given powers to local authorities to take over bus registration and competition issues, allowing for a new frameowrk of franchised routes for the overall good. There was, alas, feeling expressed tht although Bristol itself might wish to take up powers offered, other members of the WoE partnership might shy away from doing so.

What I found overall interesting about the day ...

* It was sold / advertised with a strong "no new roads" theme, and there was literature on that topic there.  Yet there seemed to be a predominance of public transport interest.

* the people who were absent, as well as those present.  No representative from FOSBR (though I met several of their team on the train in the morning - seems they hadn't heard of the meeting), and also missing that campaigner in a wheelchair who is always such a font of knowledge. No West Wilts Rail User Group, no RailFuture. Perhaps as this meeting was less than a third the size of last week's Bristol Rail meeting, yet covered road, cycling and buses too I should not be surprised to note the absences.

* Hearing Steven Melia talk on the hard truths of private v public  - that a doubleing of bus passengers would only cut road use by 1.3%, for example. That builing roads just moves congestion and that issues are on the local network. That a new rail / bus scheme only takes around 25% of its passengers from road.  But on the positive side, his pointing out that the 25% of "would not have travelled before" is so important in terms of new jobs, economy, helping people who were trapped at home get out (and get exercise and be active community members)

* A reminder that those from "rural areas" - however that is defined - feel left out by the urban mass and interests of a big city like Bristol, and yet the people from a big city like Bristol feel that the relatively small population is their hinterland countryside has a disproportionate influnece (and cost) on them.

* A reminder how we all need to work / plan / ask along co-ordinated lines; that travel requirements don't come to an abrupt halt at the boundary between Wiltshire and Bath, and that Frome and Rode look far more to Westbury and Trowbridge than they do to Taunton.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: simonw on November 15, 2015, 19:37:29
Interesting argument that building the Stoke Gifford By Pass will turn the regular M32 jam into a three mile M32/Ring Road/By Pass jam.

If you happen to live in Bradley Stoke, Stoke Gifford and Little Stoke you'll not regard the bypass as an extension of the M32/Ring Road, but as another way to access the M32/M4 and will take traffic away from Aztech West area, which is arguably is a more serious traffic congestion area than the M32. Certainly for the  next 18 months the Aztech West area will be chaotically busy with building of Metro Bus and SGC new plans (and government money) to address  major congestion issues in the area of M4/M5/A38.

 


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: johnneyw on November 15, 2015, 21:00:39
No representative from FOSBR

Disappointing, I emailed the FOSBR newsletter editor about this a week previously.  I think they were on a trip to Exeter that day to speak to the people behind the newly open Newcourt Station.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 15, 2015, 21:03:06
Interesting argument that building the Stoke Gifford By Pass will turn the regular M32 jam into a three mile M32/Ring Road/By Pass jam.

If you happen to live in Bradley Stoke, Stoke Gifford and Little Stoke you'll not regard the bypass as an extension of the M32/Ring Road, but as another way to access the M32/M4 and will take traffic away from Aztech West area, which is arguably is a more serious traffic congestion area than the M32. Certainly for the  next 18 months the Aztech West area will be chaotically busy with building of Metro Bus and SGC new plans (and government money) to address  major congestion issues in the area of M4/M5/A38.

 

My fault for going for the soundbite: Steve Melia's argument was that you can't get rid of congestion; all you can do is move it around.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Rhydgaled on November 16, 2015, 08:39:33
He also found little evidence of modal shift following public transport investment: Build a tram system and people will use it, but any road space that gets freed up as a result will soon be used by more car journeys.
If investing in public transport doesn't create modal shift, what does?

As an aside, and perhaps influenced somewhat by Steve Melia's talk, air quality was identified as a key campaigning issue: A transport investment that appears not to stack up according to current (rather flawed, many of us agreed) BCR analysis could potentially be justified by its impact on air quality. This may be seen as a purely urban concern, but a lot of vehicles causing air polution in cities started their journey in the country.
And to improve air quality what do you need? Modal shift to public transport, would be my guess. Which brings us back to the question of how to acheive modal shift. If a carrot* alone doesn't work, maybe we need a stick to use in conjunction with the carrot?

* Public transport investment


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: grahame on November 16, 2015, 09:41:52
He also found little evidence of modal shift following public transport investment: Build a tram system and people will use it, but any road space that gets freed up as a result will soon be used by more car journeys.
If investing in public transport doesn't create modal shift, what does?

More public transport investment, AND a system that discourages driving through pricing of parking and the like.   Example of Manhattan was quoted (and I have used the Subway and other services there and they provide a LOT of transport!)


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 16, 2015, 14:22:56
Apropos of nothing, here's an alternative solution:

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12027192_10154366317894488_8035355792435299476_o.jpg)

So that's what happened to Totterdown...


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 16, 2015, 20:20:57
That would seem to be quite some temporary flyover !.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: TonyK on November 16, 2015, 22:15:51
This was the plan that would have seen the harbour filled in wasn't it? Thank God for common sense, which at last took over.


Title: Re: Help Launch New Transport Campaign Group in South West
Post by: JayMac on November 16, 2015, 22:28:40
Is it too late to hope the same common sense will prevail over Metrobust?



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