Great Western Coffee Shop

From the Morning Star (http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-ffa0-Terror-strike-would-be-made-deadlier-by-cuts)

Prime target a decade ago maybe. IS seem to prefer other methods?

The unions living in the past. And you can be sure they wouldn't be asked to tackle terrorists either, so no, in general.

Not really.  Cuts to police numbers and closing police stations worry me far more. 

Agreed, police cuts are far more likely to 'make Terror Strikes Deadlier' than rail staff cuts. I doubt stopping terrorists is part of rail staff's job descriptions, there are far better reasons to oppose cuts to rail staff, the RMT have lost the plot.

Whilst we are already encouraged to report anything or anyone suspicious to "A member of the staff or a member of the British Transport Police",  I can't help feeling that any adding a more formal and defined role in this arena for train and station staff would change their job description beyond the comfort of many of them, and would also lead to significant management, union and staff interaction in defining that formality.

On the police front, actually finding one to report suspicious activity to will become increasingly difficult. All forces, BTP included, are cutting the number of officers.

Meanwhile, Dave & Co have just magiced up ^2bn for the intelligence services and SAS. If they fail it's front line police officers that are required, both as the last line of public defence and in dealing with the immediate aftermath of an incident. Police are also required to gather evidence of suspected terrorists.

However, no changes to the swingeing cuts in Police budgets hwve been announced. Instead we have to rely on Spooks and Special Forces. How well did they do in July 2005?

Just as well as current numbers would do now....

I've been spending a fair bit of time at Bristol Temple Meads this past week or so due to a change of work pattern just recently. They still boom out messages over the Tannoy about unattended luggage, which is good to hear, and you'd think given recent events people would take extra care. I was a little surprised therefore to be sitting in what used to be the First Class lounge area last week when a woman walked in, dumped her bags, and still talking on her phone walked out of the opposite door and continued her conversation outside the closed door.

I sat there for a few minutes. The bags sat there too. A couple of other people in the waiting room glanced at me, and glanced at the bags. Still the bags sat there. My train was announced then, so I got up to leave, and just a few yards down the platform I spotted two chaps wearing fluorescent GW tabards (probably waiting to see the same train into the platform). So, obviously mindful of the announcements, I notified them of the unattended baggage which someone - I didn't say who - had left in the waiting room, which to their credit they attended to IMMEDIATELY.

Now, you're all thinking what a good, public spirited, person I am - and of course I was only doing my duty. The thing is though, I was actually wondering if in fact I was being a bit mean spirited because the woman who left the luggage there, and who was STILL chatting on her phone when the two men approached her (I glanced back from the other end of the platform....) was none other than GWR management herself. I knew this. I recognised the uniform. I saw papers sticking out of her bag.

The conversation can only be imagined! I stand by what I did though. She acted, quite frankly, b****y irresponsibly under the circumstances. She should think herself lucky I didn't phone the British Transport Police.

Quite staggering really.  Though luggage left in a waiting room would not normally be enough to trigger an evacuation, at the current heightened level of risk it could, and at the best of times is hardly a sensible thing for anybody to be doing, let alone staff.  ::)

Is there any common sense here ?

Personally, I think theres a lot of common sense on here, but I'm not too sure about out there........ :P ;D

They've actually done rather well (in conjunction with the Police) at preventing numerous other incidents.

No amount of Police resource will ever stop every attempt at a terrorist outrage. If you had any idea how many terrorist incidents have been prevented since 2005 by information obtained and provided by the Intelligence Services you may not be so disparaging about "Spooks" as you call them.

The amount of protection which can be provided by an unarmed PC against someone wielding an AK47
is somewhat limited, it's rather better to uncover their plans & stop them before they get that far.

The bad fellas only have to get lucky once remember.

And you are privvy to the spooks workings?

The only current way any of us can guage the number of potential attacks foiled is by the cases coming to court/charges being laid.

Certainly not 'numerous' as you state, so are you exaggerating? Some of those 7 Cameron mentioned this week I suspect will tirn out to be cyber attacks. While unpleasant for those affected, they'll not lead to loss of life. I certainly haven't seen 7 sets of charges....unless they were all in the last month or so

"Privy" to some information in a very limited way, related to previous employment, yes. Not everything is as black and white as you'd like it to be Chris.

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but I think some of these things are now tried in secret without a jury, depending on the circumstances, so you may never know anything about them at all. Therefore, court cases/charges are not a reliable gauge on the number of attacks foiled. Just because there are no charges doesn't mean plots haven't been disrupted in other ways...airstrikes, disrupted by special forces on the ground etc.

The Official Secrets Act should ensure that the general public never know what the intelligence services & 'special' armed forces are up to (obviously this is the big advantage they have over the police), so any speculation about their successes or lack thereof is just that.

There's a lot we don't know and a lot we will never know. MI5/MI6 wouldn't be much of a secret service if they shared all their intelligence with the general public.

Agreed - and yes, court cases can be heard in secret - but they still have to announce guilty verdicts.

I agree that the security services do a pretty good job.  I am very grateful for that.  But what happens when a loony with an AK47 starts shooting in Bath when we will no longer have a police station due to budget cuts.  Armed police will have to come from Bristol or somewhere.  Bath might well be a target (it was of the IRA) but are there any armed police there?  And where would help come from in smaller communities.  They might be in an even worse situation?

I have no argument against money being spent on MI5 or GCHQ, and prevention is better than cure. But all the spies in the world  will not compensate for cuts in front line police who will have to respond when the spies drop the ball (or for that matter cuts to the border force who are supposed to be able to stop the AK47s entering the country in the first place). 

Across Wiltshire, Police stations are open for reduced hours from 30th November - basically 08:30 to 17:30 Monday to Friday for most of them - some even shorter hours.  Makes it darned difficult if members of the working public have to visit ... but then I'm sure that there will be police available outside those hours to avoid anarchy in our towns over the weekend!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=581653251986194&id=100004245738010

We've gone off-topic somewhat - the OP discussing cuts to *rail* staff.

But we're still on 'The Wider Picture' board - which is defined as, 'Not "Trains in the West", but related subjects'.  ;)

Rail staff did not intervene on the Thalis attack attempt. It was trained members of the public who managed to control the idiot who was going to start shooting. The staff in the train actually ran to their secure compartment and locked the door.
And having more security personnel is not a guarantee that nothing will happen: France was in a high alert state when the attacks happened in Paris and it did not prevent the number of people being killed.

So cuts in train staff will not mean an increased safety risk. Would they be checking all passengers, all bags? NO.

As for the trials being held in secret: there is currently a trial in Reading about a couple who was plotting to bomb London and is being widely reported on ( http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/terror-suspect-tested-explosives-garden-10487996, http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/reading-couple-were-close-pulling-10462527)