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Title: Slowing of Rosslare-Dublin trains Post by: WEX-RSB-FGH-BPW-PAD on December 05, 2015, 19:50:44 Next year the frequency of the DART in Dublin is to be enhanced to every ten minutes, according users with essentially a turn up and go service.
The downside of this is that commuter and InterCity services radiating from Dublin Connolly, including those to/from Rosslare will be slowed due to a lack of apparent infrastructure for longer-distance trains (limited/non stop in the Dublin area) to pass all-stations DARTs. The Rosslare line is adversely affected with the majority of trains taking at least ten minutes more to complete their journeys. In fact the 16.37 Connolly-Rosslare (the Fishguard ferry connection but also a key commuter service for workers returning from the capital to Counties Wicklow & Wexford) will now leave Connolly 4 minutes earlier and arrive at Rosslare Europort 16 minutes later - a stunning 20 minutes increase in journey duration! The largely parallel road corridor (N11/M11 Dublin-Wexford & N25 Wexford-Rosslare Harbour) has seen many improvements and the rail journey time is already generally uncompetitive with bus and car times. Aside from the last train of the day from the capital being deferred till 19.00 this timetable offers nothing to users of this line and in my view is essentially developing a vicious circle. The line does have strengths of course but these are generally not being played to. There is no improvement to rail-ferry connectivity, there is no apparent attempt to exploit commuter potential (there are pairs of towns in Wicklow & Wexford which are not linked by public transport for mainstream [i.e. pre-09.00] commuting e.g. Greystones-Wicklow-Arklow), the scenic nature of the line is not being exploited, aside from Wexford town there is no meaningful bus-rail integration south of Greystones etc... There is a public consultation process underway at present. Consultation closes on Tuesday 8th December, 2015. The consultation material including a draft PDF timetable can be accessed on the Irish Rail website where there is also a webform for feedback: http://www.irishrail.ie/news/public-consultation-for-2016-dart-and-connolly-intercity-and-commuter-services (http://www.irishrail.ie/news/public-consultation-for-2016-dart-and-connolly-intercity-and-commuter-services) Quote Public Consultation for 2016 DART and Connolly Intercity and Commuter services 24 November 2015 Customers are invited to provide feedback on DART and Connolly Intercity and Commuter services. Draft schedule revisions for 2016 for Connolly routes (DART, Northern Commuter, Maynooth/M3 Commuter, Sligo/Dublin, Rosslare/Dublin and Belfast/Dublin) have now been posted below for customers to review and comment upon below. Main Changes Major changes to Connolly services in response to increases in customer demand include: DART weekday 10-minute frequency: A major increase in weekday DART frequency from every 15 minutes to every 10 minutes all day. DART weekend frequency: A consistent schedule every 15 minutes on Saturday, and every 20 minutes on Sunday, eliminating some existing schedule gaps. Extra express morning peak service from Dundalk/Drogheda: as the existing morning Belfast Enterprise service will now serve Dundalk at the earlier time of 07.30hrs and Drogheda at 07.54hrs, a new express service is proposed to depart Dundalk at 07.55hrs, serving Drogheda at 08.20hrs arriving Dublin Connolly at 09.09hrs. Increased frequency for Dundalk: This peak service is one of three new services in each direction daily for Dundalk on weekdays. Please see DRAFT Timetable for more information. Dublin/Belfast Enterprise changes: a revised Dublin/Belfast Enterprise schedule will see a more even interval between services, resulting in some significant changes to departure times. Departure time changes on all routes: while the above are the more significant changes, Iarnr^d ^ireann advises all customers on all Connolly routes to view the draft schedules, as many services will see departure time changes, or changes to stopping patterns of individual trains which may affect their journeys. Public consultation The draft 2016 schedules are online for customers to review and give feedback to Iarnr^d ^ireann as part of the timetable planning process, which is overseen by the National Transport Authority. The consultation period continues until 8th December 2015 and draft timetables and feedback forms are available below. The public consultation process enables customers to express their opinions on changes proposed, or any other schedule issues they wish to see addressed. These are then examined before the final timetable is adopted. Comments and concerns will be examined to identify major issues and improvements suggested by customers. Iarnr^d ^ireann will endeavour to implement customers^ suggestions where possible. Suggested alterations which cannot be implemented at this timetable change will be retained in a database for consideration at future timetable reviews. It is then intended to implement the new schedule, incorporating customer feedback where possible and subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority, early in the New Year. It is intended that the move to a DART service every 10 minutes at weekdays would be the first phase in a programme of DART service expansion which would also include further weekend service expansion. DRAFT Timetable Click here or select "Download Timetable" below to view the DRAFT Timetable. Please note the file size is 2MB. Title: Re: Slowing of Rosslare-Dublin trains Post by: grahame on December 06, 2015, 07:03:28 There has also been significant comment in the press in the North too concerning new schedules for the Belfast - Dublin service, where the official headline seems to be to highlight the now-regularised services, and the press comment is about how it's been slowed over the years. I'll attach a screen capture from (help! I didn't note the paper) the other day.
I've never used the Enterprise (the Belfast - Dublin service) - through lack of any need to travel that route. And I've only made a single journey from Dublin to Rosslare (driven to a longer and in some ways much more awkward route port-wise via Dublin Port and Holyhead, both of which require bus transfers, due to lack of connections). So dangerous for me to make substantive comment. I can, however, ask questions ... ;D ... which to a very great extent echo the comments by WEX-RSB-FGH-BPW-PAD. 1. With a 10 minute headway from Bray into Dublin on the local trains, and "only" a double track, I can see no way of having the "expresses" being anything more than 5 minutes faster than the stoppers. But can anyone suggest an affordable solution? 2. The line is beautiful south of Bray. Has it been marketed for tourism / trips? 3. Could connections at Rosslare from / to boats be improved? 4. Could commuter traffic south of Greystones be better tapped? 5. For international passengers via the ferry (and increasingly for business traffic), does "a few extra minutes" really matter these days? Isn't having a train at about the right time, with enough space to sit / sleep / relax / work (Wifi available) and connections that make nicely MUCH more important? 6. Is there a case (I don't believe there is personally, but all options should be explored) to run a Bray or Greystones to Rosslare Europort shuttle to give better / full use of the available stock on the diesel section rather than dragging behind Dart trains which could carry connecting passengers? Title: Re: Slowing of Rosslare-Dublin trains Post by: Rhydgaled on December 07, 2015, 14:11:41 Cross-posting here because this topic is slightly more relevant than the XC direct award one:
Torbay and Plymouth / Torbay and Britstol. Look at Torbay to Fishguard. Torbay to Fishguard? Where did that come from, any more information?The Torbay folks pointing out how difficult it was / is to get from Torbay to may places without a lot o changes. One example was how hard it is for tourists from Ireland to come by public transport. The speaker specifically took Rosslare as an example (sorry - I transposed to Fishguard as the TransIrishSea tunnel isn't until CP25 and it will be boats until then ;D ) I look at the ferry times - 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. from Rosslare to Fishguard, and also 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. from Rosslare to Pembroke Dock. Then 3 a.m. and 3 p.m. from Fishguard to Rosslare and 3 a.m. and 3 p.m. from Pembroke Dock to Rosslare. There is a frustration at the lack of connections on the Irish side to trains from Rosslare to Dublin and Ignoring Pembroke Dock, because it isn't Stena that run there, the reason I doubt Stena can do much about it is the time factor. A crossing takes about 3.5hrs, and 2hrs are allowed at Fishguard for loading/unloading. Assuming the same turnround time at Rosslare, the Stena Europe is practically fully commited running a sailing from each side of the Irish sea at roughly 12hr intervals. It think this means one or more sailings per day will arrive or depart (or both) at a ****** awkward time. For example, if you made the daytime sailing from Fishguard leave at noon instead of 14:30 it would reach Rosslare at arround 15:30 which might have suited my father the other day but would be even harder to get to from England. The return journey from Rosslare would then leave arround 17:30/18:00, which shouldn't be too bad for connections from elsewhere in Ireland but you'd be needing to check into a hotel when you got to Fishguard because it'd be too late to travel very much further. Then it would go back to Rosslare again about 23:30, depositing you at the very unsociable time of 3am and with the jouney back to Fishguard leaving Rosslare about 5am.But I can't agree "nothing Stena can do about it". It's always struck me that boats from Rosslare every 6 hours, alternating to Pembroke Dock (at - say - 5 a.m. and 5 p.m.) and to Fishguard (at say 11 a.m. and 11 p.m.), returning from Pembroke Dock at 11 a.m. and 11 p.m. and from Fishguard at 5 a.m. and 5 p.m. might make the southern route more attractive to me - but then I don't know the traffic balance and potential. Anyway - not really "on subject" here - I doubt whether the Cross Country Direct Award will attempt to influence the boats on the Irish Sea, which look like they place a similar game like the buses "race to the stop". Title: Re: Slowing of Rosslare-Dublin trains Post by: grahame on December 07, 2015, 15:14:44 Ignoring Pembroke Dock ... Ignoring Pembroke Dock, I'm in complete agreement with you ... the Stena Europa runs every 12 hours ... so 3 p.m. and 3 a.m. from Fishguard, and 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. from Rosslare. It meands that you get to Rosslare headed to Ireand after the last train has left, and to come back to the UK you have to be in Rosslare the night befor and stay at a B&B, or catch a service that's so late that you get to Fishguard at an awful time. And tinkering with the timing is always going to leave some real nasties for rail connection people who are only a tiny (insignificant?) part of the traffic. The times may actually suit the freight drivers, and the freight companies certainly have their businesses set up to handle. Alas, like some of our buses where you have two competing operators on a route, ferries from Rosslare to Wales run 4 a day, which does NOT mean "every six hours". If you miss the boat, you may have 11 hours and 45 minutes to wait. An alternative way of operating just might be to run both boats between Rosslare and Fishguard, and at 6 hour intervals. Whether that's 3 a.m. and 9 a.m., 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. from Rosslare, and the same times from Fishguard, I don't know. My own (biased to rail connection) preference would be boats at Midnight, 6 a.m., Midday and 6 p.m.. It would have the B&B owners in Rosslare up in arms, as passengers could catch the midnight Title: Re: Slowing of Rosslare-Dublin trains Post by: Rhydgaled on December 07, 2015, 16:23:33 Alas, like some of our buses where you have two competing operators on a route, ferries from Rosslare to Wales run 4 a day, which does NOT mean "every six hours". If you miss the boat, you may have 11 hours and 45 minutes to wait. An alternative way of operating just might be to run both boats between Rosslare and Fishguard, and at 6 hour intervals. Whether that's 3 a.m. and 9 a.m., 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. from Rosslare, and the same times from Fishguard, I don't know. Agreed that competition rather than colaboration is very unhelpful, with buses and, it would seem, ferries. Having both boats cooperatively running a 6hr interval service would certainly be an improvement, although midnight departures would still be "yuk!" as passengers would be turfed out of the cabin on arrival at around 4a.m.My own (biased to rail connection) preference would be boats at Midnight, 6 a.m., Midday and 6 p.m.. It would have the B&B owners in Rosslare up in arms, as passengers could catch the midnight As for slow trains, it isn't just the Irish side that has problems. Even the Fishguard daytime boat train (the only express service in and out of south-west Wales, faster by far than any other) isn't really time competitive with cars. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. 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