Great Western Coffee Shop

Sideshoots - associated subjects => Heritage railway lines, Railtours, other rail based attractions => Topic started by: PhilWakely on January 11, 2016, 14:57:48



Title: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 11, 2016, 14:57:48

From burnham-on-sea(dot)com (http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2016/flying-scotsman-10-01-16.php)



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on January 11, 2016, 19:24:56
Who will be the operator?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 11, 2016, 19:36:11
Who will be the operator?

According to UK Steam Info (http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm), the operator is Steam Dreams (assisted by West Coast) and shows 60103 running from Paddington to Bishops Lydeard and return - but that may change.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 11, 2016, 19:56:11
Why do they have to pick a number so similar to another one running around?   We have 60163 and now 60103 as well ... why not (in true Monty Python style) something completely different like 4472?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 11, 2016, 20:34:15
Why do they have to pick a number so similar to another one running around?   We have 60163 and now 60103 as well ... why not (in true Monty Python style) something completely different like 4472?
Apparently, it is currently being restored in 'wartime black', so the number 60103 would not be appropriate in any case.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on January 11, 2016, 20:40:55
I'll be home from holiday for this one.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 11, 2016, 20:54:44
Why do they have to pick a number so similar to another one running around?   We have 60163 and now 60103 as well ... why not (in true Monty Python style) something completely different like 4472?
Apparently, it is currently being restored in 'wartime black', so the number 60103 would not be appropriate in any case.


3440 is a much nicer sort of number, IMHO.

Sadly I won't be able to make the date - I have a long-standing arrangement to re-index my yogurt pot lid collection.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on January 11, 2016, 22:12:36
According to UK Steam Info (http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm), the operator is Steam Dreams (assisted by West Coast) and shows 60103 running from Paddington to Bishops Lydeard and return - but that may change.

I assume West Coast will still be in business...  ...i.e. it still has an operator's licence.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 11, 2016, 23:40:36
Tried earlier to book two seats on the Bristol-Bishops Lydeard run on the 28th May. Sold out already. Have to make do with  photo opportunities on the day.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on January 12, 2016, 08:42:09
Interesting to note that Flying Scotsman was not always been an East Coast engine.

It spent 3 years from Jun 50 to Nov 53 at 38C Leicester Central on the GC.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 12, 2016, 08:43:15
I note also from UK Steam Info that Flying Scotsman is operating out of Paddington a week earlier on 21st May on the Cathedrals Express to Salisbury and Southampton (also West Coast if they havn't managed to blot their copybook in the meantime)

Then on the 5th June Paddington to Shrewsbury (via Leamington Spa) and 8th June Chester to Paddington via Hereford and Bristol Parkway.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 12, 2016, 10:27:07
Then on the 5th June Paddington to Shrewsbury (via Leamington Spa) and 8th June Chester to Paddington via Hereford and Bristol Parkway.

Those seem to be part of a 4 day tour, rather than day trips


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 12, 2016, 11:11:18
Then on the 5th June Paddington to Shrewsbury (via Leamington Spa) and 8th June Chester to Paddington via Hereford and Bristol Parkway.

Those seem to be part of a 4 day tour, rather than day trips
Indeed - days 1 and 4. Days 2 & 3 explorer the Welsh narrow gauge lines I believe


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on January 12, 2016, 11:39:38
Why do they have to pick a number so similar to another one running around?   We have 60163 and now 60103 as well ... why not (in true Monty Python style) something completely different like 4472?
Apparently, it is currently being restored in 'wartime black', so the number 60103 would not be appropriate in any case.
It is currently running as Num. 502 in wartime black, the nameplates appear to be missing at present but sadly not the sideplates (smoke deflectors?) which in my view make it look like it wasn't a GNR/LNER design. I also think it looks wrong in BR dark green (which it is apparently planned to go into in the near(ish?) future), if anything I think I prefer it in black to BR dark green but I'd rather it was LNER apple green. The sideplates are awful whichever livery it wears.

As well as being similar to other steam loco numbers, 60103 looks like a class 60 diesel locomotive number.

3440 is a much nicer sort of number, IMHO.
I was rather disapointed not to see 6023 on the Pembroke Coast Express last year, apparently they still haven't managed to make the King suitable for running on Network Rail metals. I'm much more interested to finally see a King in steam (in either GWR green or BR blue) than a BR dark green Gresley.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 12, 2016, 14:23:32
...I also think it looks wrong...

The trouble with the Flipping Wastomoney is that it's always wrong - you either get a combination of livery and equipment that's right but steams badly, or one that's wrong but works.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 12, 2016, 15:19:10
...I also think it looks wrong...

The trouble with the Flipping Wastomoney is that it's always wrong - you either get a combination of livery and equipment that's right but steams badly, or one that's wrong but works.
Whilst I believe that any restoration should be done respecting historical fact, if modifications to the original design/livery are 'within reason' and do not make a mockery then so be it. For instance, some preserved lines paint rolling stock in their own livery, but the trains are still attracting visitors. Also, Tornado was originally introduced in LNER green, with the LNER lettering on the tender, but carried the number 60163. It was still extremely popular!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on January 12, 2016, 16:01:59
Tried earlier to book two seats on the Bristol-Bishops Lydeard run on the 28th May. Sold out already. Have to make do with  photo opportunities on the day.

Might join you!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on January 12, 2016, 18:00:44
Now I know what I'm going to be doing on my birthday !.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on January 12, 2016, 21:59:17
I hope I know what I'm doing for part of my birthday. Afterwards, I might go on a train.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on January 13, 2016, 14:43:30
The trouble with the Flipping Wastomoney is that it's always wrong - you either get a combination of livery and equipment that's right but steams badly, or one that's wrong but works.
I didn't think there was a combination of livery and equipment that is historically correct prior to it becoming a preserved loco, but I personally think it looks ok in this condition (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxT0-dvnGkU) Does it not run well in that condition? What about how Alan Pegler had it (which looks the same to me in some photos, other than the single chimney which I didn't notice until somebody pointed it out)? (another video, I think in the same condition as the other link) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbHU76OBXO0&feature=youtu.be) Neither of those videos are mine, although I did see one of the "The Sarum Scotsman" trips I'm not sure which one.  What

Tornado was originally introduced in LNER green, with the LNER lettering on the tender, but carried the number 60163. It was still extremely popular!
It was apple green yes, but if I recall correctly it had BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender not LNER (the first time I saw it anyway).


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on January 13, 2016, 15:21:31
...Does it not run well in that condition?

The double chimney improves performance and economy, but gives it a soft exhaust - hence the German-style smoke deflectors. Trouble is, it never ran like that in LNER days; you'd have to ditch the Kylchap gear and blinkers if you wanted it to look right in apple green...

Funny old game, preservation - Pickled Scotchegg has now beed preserved for longer than its time with the LNER and BR combined, so what is authenticity anyway? They may as well paint it purple and call it Mr Cadbury's Parrot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8kCF_9Uns).

I'm just glad that no such controversies surround City of Truro - indisputably the first loco to acheive 100mph.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 13, 2016, 15:57:36
...Does it not run well in that condition?

The double chimney improves performance and economy, but gives it a soft exhaust - hence the German-style smoke deflectors. Trouble is, it never ran like that in LNER days; you'd have to ditch the Kylchap gear and blinkers if you wanted it to look right in apple green...

Funny old game, preservation - Pickled Scotchegg has now beed preserved for longer than its time with the LNER and BR combined, so what is authenticity anyway? They may as well paint it purple and call it Mr Cadbury's Parrot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8kCF_9Uns).

I'm just glad that no such controversies surround City of Truro - indisputably the first loco to acheive 100mph.
"Triggers Broom" syndrome?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on January 13, 2016, 17:29:23
...Does it not run well in that condition?

The double chimney improves performance and economy, but gives it a soft exhaust - hence the German-style smoke deflectors. Trouble is, it never ran like that in LNER days; you'd have to ditch the Kylchap gear and blinkers if you wanted it to look right in apple green...

Funny old game, preservation - Pickled Scotchegg has now beed preserved for longer than its time with the LNER and BR combined, so what is authenticity anyway? They may as well paint it purple and call it Mr Cadbury's Parrot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8kCF_9Uns).

I'm just glad that no such controversies surround City of Truro - indisputably the first loco to acheive 100mph.

I may be wrong, but I am sure I read somewhere that Flying Scotsman actually started life as an A1 but was converted to  A3 in its BR days, so it is only vaguely similar in preservation to its LNER iteration ?? ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A3_4472_Flying_Scotsman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_A3_4472_Flying_Scotsman)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on February 07, 2016, 15:53:17
Made its first public run yesterday:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35515743


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 07, 2016, 15:58:57
She coped with some pretty atrocious conditions yesterday apparently.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on February 25, 2016, 07:47:36
Just watched her leaving Kings X en route for York. Station seemed to be at a standstill. Naga and John on Breakfast were bouncing up and down on the sofa in excitement. Mind you, ^450 a ticket for todays jolly to York is only for the likes of the moderators on this forum ! :o


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 25, 2016, 09:26:58
I saw that too. As a non-football fan, I think I finally understand the level of excitement a Man U supporter experiences on hearing that Liverpool have won the Premier League Trophy.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on February 25, 2016, 10:15:43
BBC are reporting the train was halted south of Peterborough after members of the public were spotted the wrong side of the fence.

Certainly when Michael Portillo was being interviewed on BBC Breakfast around 9am the train appeared not to be moving.

Train reported 30 minutes late at Peterborough.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rob on the hill on February 25, 2016, 10:21:35
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59844/2016/02/25/advanced


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 25, 2016, 11:56:33
BBC are reporting the train was halted south of Peterborough after members of the public were spotted the wrong side of the fence.

Sadly there's small minority (quite a large small minority!) of enthusiasts who seem to think the tresspassing rules don't apply to them!   :(


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 25, 2016, 14:08:39
Muppets. All those trespassers should be arrested.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on February 25, 2016, 14:14:03
I agree - with the upcoming court case involving a steam special raising questions about the place for heritage services on the mainline network in some people's minds the last thing we need is modern trains being delayed by trespassers trying to get a closer look at a passing special.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2016, 14:57:15
... the last thing we need is modern trains being delayed by trespassers trying to get a closer look at a passing special.

I'll go further ... the last thing we need is a group of trespassers out to see a special being mown down by a modern train - or even an old one that's still in service like a 153 ...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2016, 15:44:39
BBC are reporting the train was halted south of Peterborough after members of the public were spotted the wrong side of the fence.

Sadly there's small minority (quite a large small minority!) of enthusiasts who seem to think the tresspassing rules don't apply to them!   :(

..............I can almost picture it, like a crowd of excited screaming teenage girls rushing the stage at a One Direction concert (except considerably older and chucking notebooks, binoculars, anoraks, thermos flasks and Tupperware containers at the object of their affections rather than underwear!)  ::)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2016, 18:54:46
BBC are reporting the train was halted south of Peterborough after members of the public were spotted the wrong side of the fence.

And from the BBC's own site ...

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/80E1/production/_88439923_scotsman1.jpg)

(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/29BB/production/_88438601_alexandertweet.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 25, 2016, 19:32:24
You pick your spot, you wait patiently, then this happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35662754

Gutted.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on February 25, 2016, 21:33:59
You pick your spot, you wait patiently, then this happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35662754

Gutted.
Or this - when Tornado was first on the scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBBK2hjcPuA)
  :D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2016, 21:40:28
Gutted.

Doesn't every cloud have a silver lining? - from the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464245/You-wait-morning-train-two-come-once.html)

Quote
Virgin Trains apologising to him in a reply and offered him a free train trip to the US to see one of the famous rail networks in Atlanta, Georgia.
A spokesman on its Twitter account told him: 'We feel bad about that photobomb! I hear Atlanta, Georgia has a super busy rail network.
^Fancy a trip courtesy of Virgin Atlantic? Because we'd love to make you the #FlyingYorkshireman in apology!'


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oberon on February 25, 2016, 21:47:47
I can't believe how pathetic Scotsman's whistle sounds. Did the A3s really make this thin and rather silly noise back in BR steam days?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: The Tall Controller on February 25, 2016, 22:34:55
Agreed, it does sound pathetic. Watching some old footage of the engine shows that it used to have a much better sounding whistle. I hope it gets sorted.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 25, 2016, 22:49:14
A couple of points from me, if I may?  ;)

I've now expanded the heading of this topic, to reflect the ongoing nature of this discussion.

Also, I'd like to make it clear that we're talking about the steam train Flying Scotsman here, not a valued member of the Coffee Shop forum with the same name.

CfN.  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on February 25, 2016, 22:50:49
Also, I'd like to make it clear that we're talking about the steam train Flying Scotsman here, not a valued member of the Coffee Shop forum with the same name.

Is he a candidate for multi-million pound restoration too?  ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 26, 2016, 00:29:40
That's possibly one for his wife to answer.  But I'm certainly not going to ask her.  :-X


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Andy on February 26, 2016, 08:37:00
Alarmingly irresponsible trespassers apart, I find this "story" both heartwarming and encouraging. It is extraordinary to see how much attention this iconic locomotive has received - crowds of onlookers, helicopters, live TV broadcasts... It's a real boost for the railway heritage movement in general and I hope this wave of enthusiasm will bear fruit in increased visitor numbers for the many preserved railways across the UK.



 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on February 26, 2016, 09:27:20
Gutted.

Doesn't every cloud have a silver lining? - from the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464245/You-wait-morning-train-two-come-once.html)

Quote
Virgin Trains apologising to him in a reply and offered him a free train trip to the US to see one of the famous rail networks in Atlanta, Georgia.
A spokesman on its Twitter account told him: 'We feel bad about that photobomb! I hear Atlanta, Georgia has a super busy rail network.
^Fancy a trip courtesy of Virgin Atlantic? Because we'd love to make you the #FlyingYorkshireman in apology!'


It was me! It was me! For the first time in my life, my day was ruined by a passing Virgin!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 26, 2016, 10:39:43
Gutted.

Doesn't every cloud have a silver lining? - from the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464245/You-wait-morning-train-two-come-once.html)

Quote
Virgin Trains apologising to him in a reply and offered him a free train trip to the US to see one of the famous rail networks in Atlanta, Georgia.
A spokesman on its Twitter account told him: 'We feel bad about that photobomb! I hear Atlanta, Georgia has a super busy rail network.
^Fancy a trip courtesy of Virgin Atlantic? Because we'd love to make you the #FlyingYorkshireman in apology!'


It was me! It was me! For the first time in my life, my day was ruined by a passing Virgin!

Will "delayed due to spotters on the line" become a new delay reason on RTT?  :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 26, 2016, 11:50:40
I've just seen an item on yesterday's run by l'"Ecossais Volant" (sic) on French national news! It also made some of the papers, and their on-line counterparts. I don't think they were really covering it because of the importance of the event itself, so much as the amount of news media and public interest.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on February 26, 2016, 12:01:07
Muppets. All those trespassers should be arrested.
I notice that a video was tweeted (probably one of many) that has been shared many times where the photographer was trespassing himself. Surely, now that video evidence is perfectly acceptable in a court of law and the perpetrator has as good as admitted the offence, then BTP should throw the book at him and make a clear example to others.

Mind you, in years gone by, I may have been just as guilty as can be seen here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwakely/17996235825/in/album-72157646971193407/) or here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwakely/16935868581/in/album-72157646971193407/)  :-[


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on February 26, 2016, 12:32:23
...Does it not run well in that condition?

The double chimney improves performance and economy, but gives it a soft exhaust - hence the German-style smoke deflectors. Trouble is, it never ran like that in LNER days; you'd have to ditch the Kylchap gear and blinkers if you wanted it to look right in apple green...
In my opinion, you have to ditch the smoke deflectors to make it look right FULL STOP. I think in the video I linked to it was in double-chymney condition but without the smoke deflectors, how does that work (and what is a 'soft exhaust' anyway, it sounds like you are refering to the noise it makes but smoke deflectors wouldn't change that)?

You pick your spot, you wait patiently, then this happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35662754

Gutted.
Triple gutted. Not only is the IC225 blocking the view of the steam loco, but Flying Scotsman is ruined by BR green livery and smoke deflectors and the class 91 is ruined by Virgin's livery. Personally, I think a class 91 in a decent livery is better looking than BR condition Flying Scotsman, but Virgin's curvy livery doesn't suit the angular class 91.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 26, 2016, 13:19:33
(...what is a 'soft exhaust' anyway, it sounds like you are refering to the noise it makes but smoke deflectors wouldn't change that)?

'Soft' means the exhaust wafts out of the chimney rather than being forced out by a strong draught. Without smoke deflectors, smoke hangs around the boiler and cab reducing the crew's forward vision. The smoke deflectors do just what they say - they produce a draught that lifts the smoke up and away.

The single chimney had a stronger draught, hence no need for smoke deflectors.

It's a safety thing. I'd keep them on!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 26, 2016, 13:41:07
It has to be safety ahead of aesthetic. An argument could be made to have the deflectors removed when on heritage railways limited to 25mph and when on static display. But not when she is running at speed on the national network.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Enterprise on February 26, 2016, 16:15:58
'Soft' means the exhaust wafts out of the chimney rather than being forced out by a strong draught. Without smoke deflectors, smoke hangs around the boiler and cab reducing the crew's forward vision. The smoke deflectors do just what they say - they produce a draught that lifts the smoke up and away.

The single chimney had a stronger draught, hence no need for smoke deflectors.

It's a safety thing. I'd keep them on!

A soft exhaust also means that more work is done in the cylinder which then moves the wheels. Boiler pressure is about 225 lbs sq Inch, and exhaust pressure might be 20lbs, whereas with a single chimney the exhaust pressure may be 50lbs. Hence the double chimney increases efficiency, which is a damn good thing as its only about 5-8% at its very best.
Lots of kettles were treated to double chimneys in the 50's in a forlorn attempt to extend the life of steam......
Quite like it in Brunswick green, in the Pegler / McAlpine years it was in Apple Green which is how many people remember it who would have been in their 50,60,70's.
W.E





Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 26, 2016, 17:09:26
It has to be safety ahead of aesthetic. An argument could be made to have the deflectors removed when on heritage railways limited to 25mph and when on static display. But not when she is running at speed on the national network.

...but then you'd have the impossible double chimney/no smoke deflectors combo...

Never had this kind of trouble with City of Truro!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Billhere on February 27, 2016, 18:03:03

Will "delayed due to spotters on the line" become a new delay reason on RTT?  :)

Nothing new there. When I was at Oxford every time there was a steam loco about we ended up cautioning for trespassers inside the boundary fence. The only time it didn't happen was when the specials came down on weekdays when most of the neds were at work!

Vintage diesel traction was always guaranteed a check through Oxford so that the assembled Drivers who 'just happened ' to be on platform could get the benefit of the sounds of yesteryear.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 06, 2016, 09:06:54
Flying Scotsman  The Return BBC Four Monday Evening At half past eight
Those of us with a TV licence can enjoy a half hour programe about the return to service ;D.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on March 06, 2016, 09:42:41
Or those without can simply watch it an hour later without paying  >:(


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2016, 09:50:41
Not for much longer - see the TV Licence thread elsewhere


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 06, 2016, 17:43:37
... see the TV Licence thread elsewhere


Administrator note:

For those of our public readers, and some members who have only posted a few times, who may be puzzled by this reference, may I explain that there is such a discussion, in our 'members only' area of the Coffee Shop forum.  That is where our established members can post 'among friends', in a perhaps more frank and open manner than they are able to / want to in the public area of this forum.

There's honestly no mystery to this: all members of the Coffee Shop will gain access to several new boards - 'the rumour mill', 'frequent posters' and 'and also' (for non-railway-related rants!), when they have established themselves here by posting a number of times.

Chris from Nailsea.  :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on March 06, 2016, 22:21:31
Flying Scotsman  The Return BBC Four Monday Evening At half past eight
Those of us with a TV licence can enjoy a half hour programe about the return to service ;D.

Also on BBC iPlayer at the moment is the BBC documentary from 1968 about a previous restoration of Flying Scotsman carried out at that time when she was owned by Alan Peglar. Including an attempt to run her non-stop from Kings Cross to Edinburgh.

4472 - Flying Scotsman: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p011vfqw


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 08, 2016, 08:05:55
Watched the half hour programme on FS on BBC 4 last night. Some outstanding camera work using drones and very impressive use of unusual angles. I particularly enjoyed the shots in the yard at dawn with artificial lighting adding its own special atmospheric effect, the camera in the cab with the flare from the firebox as the steam billows around and the little lad exclaimimg 'Flippin Nora, not another tunnel !' Priceless !. At the end I had a wry chuckle at the narrators name being John Shrapnel. Not something the engineers would want to hear in relation to the FS!. A great half hours viewing, shame it wasn't an hour !


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on March 08, 2016, 10:19:05
Watched the half hour programme on FS on BBC 4 last night. Some outstanding camera work using drones and very impresseive use of unusual angles. I particularly enjoyed the shots in the yard at dawn with artificial lighting adding its own special atmospheric effect, the camera in the cab with the flare from the firebox as the steam billows around and the little lad exclaimimg 'Flippin Nora, not another tunnel !' Priceless !. At the end I had a wry chuckle at the narrators name being John Shrapnel. Not something the engineers would want to hear in relation to the FS!. A great half hours viewing, shame it wasn't an hour !
Not sure Alan Pegler really would have approved as the programme claimed, he did after all convert it to a single-chymney loco and had it painted in LNER apple green. Despite that, the programme wasn't the one that made be really angry last night, that was 'Wales Today'. Very bad news.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 08, 2016, 12:39:13
Watched the half hour programme on FS on BBC 4 last night. Some outstanding camera work using drones and very impresseive use of unusual angles. I particularly enjoyed the shots in the yard at dawn with artificial lighting adding its own special atmospheric effect, the camera in the cab with the flare from the firebox as the steam billows around and the little lad exclaimimg 'Flippin Nora, not another tunnel !' Priceless !. At the end I had a wry chuckle at the narrators name being John Shrapnel. Not something the engineers would want to hear in relation to the FS!. A great half hours viewing, shame it wasn't an hour !
Not sure Alan Pegler really would have approved as the programme claimed, he did after all convert it to a single-chymney loco and had it painted in LNER apple green. Despite that, the programme wasn't the one that made be really angry last night, that was 'Wales Today'. Very bad news.

Go on then, I'll bite.  What news............


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 08, 2016, 13:19:58
It's about time the DfTs plans for the Welsh franchise started becoming public....


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on March 08, 2016, 14:14:19
Which has nothing to do with Flying Scotsman.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on March 08, 2016, 14:14:37
Go on then, I'll bite.  What news............
Nothing to do with steam trains, so not on topic, or I probably would have posted it. I've now posted the answer to your question in another topic (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16582.0), where I think it will be a better fit than here.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 08, 2016, 14:16:23
Nor does that news that upset Rhydgaled....posted in another thread about the Newport by-pass...at least my suggestion was on-topic for this board!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on March 08, 2016, 15:44:13
I^ve been waiting for someone else to post about this, but obviously no-one is prepared to admit they read the Daily Mail (we only have it SO).

Last Saturday it included a full colour double page spread with an excellent cutaway drawing of Flying Scotsman, plus a view of the cab controls, with all the important bits labelled and explained.  Also details of where to see it this year.

However, the firebox is labelled as reaching 1000 1100 deg C and being made of copper, which is I think an error, not least because copper melts at 1085 deg C. 

You^ve got to admire Richard Branson for his PR success.  Anyone would think it^s the only steam locomotive going.


edit  .... and there's a Haynes Manual for Flying Scotsman coming out soon.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 08, 2016, 15:59:47
Can this be found on their website?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 08, 2016, 16:05:14
  .... and there's a Haynes Manual for Flying Scotsman coming out soon.

"Reassembly is a simple reversal of the process for disassembly..."

Yeah, right!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on March 08, 2016, 16:09:01
I've now found the Daily Mail link.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 08, 2016, 16:19:44

However, the firebox is labelled as reaching 1000 1100 deg C and being made of copper, which is I think an error, not least because copper melts at 1085 deg C. 


The fire may reach 1900 deg C. I think the trick is to try and remember to put water in the boiler. This has two benefits: it produces steam, which is jolly good and the very thing you need in a steam engine, but it also cools the firebox and stops it from melting.

You have the same problem in jet engines,  where the turbine vanes run in gases way above their melting point.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on March 08, 2016, 16:35:42
I hadn't realised any British locos had copper fireboxes, I'd always assumed they were steel because of the strength required. But I see from the NRM's Flying Scotsman Refurbishment Report that it was decided in December 2006 that a new copper firebox be built for FS. 

So apologies to the Daily Mail - I should have remembered that if I read something in the Daily Mail it must be true.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 08, 2016, 16:59:03
I hadn't realised any British locos had copper fireboxes...

Castles, Kings, panniers, prairies... quality locos...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on March 08, 2016, 19:15:47
I've now found the Daily Mail link.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html)
If the list of upcoming tours in that article is to be believed, Flying Scotsman is to make history in June. It is listed as hauling the 'Cambrian Coast Express', which I think would make it the first steam locomotive ever to run under ERTMS. According to the operator's website, (steam dreams, linking to their site doesn't seem to work) 2016 marks the 50th anniversary since the last Cambrian Coast Express. Elsewhere though, it sounds like the steam loco won't make it onto the Cambrian coast, with diesel haulage over that section. I'm not sure which would be more of an indignity to mark the anniversary of the named train, diesel-haulage or a locomotive from a rival railway. Surely a GWR loco would be more-fitting motive power.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 09, 2016, 06:00:47
I'm not sure which would be more of an indignity to mark the anniversary of the named train, diesel-haulage or a locomotive from a rival railway. Surely a GWR loco would be more-fitting motive power.

Whilst it would be nice to re-enact a run from the peak of the service or from the final days, surely we should celebrate the survival of the ability to run service(s) to Aberystwyth, Tywyn, Barmouth, Harlech, Porthmadog, Criccieth and Pwllheli at all ... much more about modern times?

If stock availability could be arranged (!), an ERTMS fitted 158 could perhaps provide a Paddington to Pwllheli service ...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on March 09, 2016, 14:09:16
The water cools the copper because it has a high specific heat. That is it takes a lot of heat to boil the water.
In my distant teaching past I used to boil water using a paper tray and Bunsen burner! The students would not believe it could be done but it usually worked.
It is the same when water is used to douse a fire; it takes the heat away


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 09, 2016, 14:56:29
The water cools the copper because it has a high specific heat. That is it takes a lot of heat to boil the water.

To be even more - well, specific -
The specific heat capacity of liquid water is 4.2 kJ/kg.K at all temperatures. That's big, compared to most liquids; the next highest common one is ethanol at 2.5. But if that's big, just wait -
The specific latent heat of evaporation (or vaporisation) of water to steam at 1 atmosphere is 2260 kJ/kg. That's huge.

Put another way, to boil water into steam needs as much energy as heating it through 540 K.

I suspect it's one of those "not at all well-known facts", but it should be as it helps to explain the weather. Condensing water vapour falls as rain (or ice) and leaves behind a lot of energy to heat the air and make it rise. Since the specific heat of air is lower, the equivalent temperature rise is bigger (about 2300 K). So even a water vapour content of 1% or less in the air heats it up by several degrees as part of it condenses.

These strong updraughts are the motive power of storms of all kinds, whether inside them or over larger area by generating pressure differences. Finally, the maximum (saturation) water vapour content of water goes up by 6.7% for a 1 K higher temperature. Hence the potential of rising temperatures to increase both rainfall and storm intensity, directly and quite apart from any changes in claimate or weather patterns.

Note: SI units are used above, so 1 K is the unit of temperature difference and 1 degree C = 1 K. 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on March 09, 2016, 18:03:59
Interesting.

Copper has a high heat conductivity of course, and the outside of the firebox will always be water at no more than its boiling point of about 250 deg C at 220 psi.  So I can see that that the copper surround of the firebox will remain well below its melting point.  I presume calculations exist to show the temperature gradient across it when the fire is at maximum output. 

I read somewhere that the copper used for FS^s firebox was a special type of copper, presumably an alloy of some sort.  Whether this is to increase hardness, or strength or melting point I do not know - but I bet someone else does.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 09, 2016, 19:38:15
But if that's big, just wait...

Shameless digression, but I heard somewhere that when a Tesla P85D does its 'insane mode' party trick of accelerating from 0-60 in 3.2s, it does so essentially by converting the mass of one electron into energy. One electron weighs 9.1 x 10-31 kg.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 09, 2016, 19:58:28
But if that's big, just wait...

Shameless digression, but I heard somewhere that when a Tesla P85D does its 'insane mode' party trick of accelerating from 0-60 in 3.2s, it does so essentially by converting the mass of one electron into energy. One electron weighs 9.1 x 10-31 kg.

I think that would be more of an "interesting coincidence of numbers" - if true. But it isn't, you'd need a lot of electrons. Like 1019 of them - so not even an exotic heavy particle is going to do it.

The power it needs is 250 kW - which is impressive itself, and about what you'd find in a single (not very fast) EMU carriage (to disdigress a little).


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 09, 2016, 21:35:31
I've now found the Daily Mail link.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3477601/Ultimate-guide-Flying-Scotsman-4-2million-renovation-classic-locomotive-finally-tracks.html)


That is truly a splendid cutaway drawing, reminiscent of those in one of the comics of the 1960s - was it Eagle?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on March 09, 2016, 21:42:37
That is truly a splendid cutaway drawing, reminiscent of those in one of the comics of the 1960s - was it Eagle?

May I suggest this on the shopping list then (available to purchase from 31st March 2016):

https://haynes.co.uk/catalog/general-interest-manuals/rail/flying-scotsman-manual


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on March 10, 2016, 04:28:08
As has been said the trick is to keep the crown of the firebox covered in water which makes the injectors the second most important fittings on a steam loco after the brake. But there is an additional safety  fitting called  a fusible plug in top of the firebox which is made of lead so melts well below 1000 and will allow the steam and water in the boiler to escape into the firebox. It was virtually a sackable offence to have a plug go, unless both injectors had failed and it wasn't possible to drop the fire quickly enough.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 10, 2016, 09:41:31
As has been said the trick is to keep the crown of the firebox covered in water which makes the injectors the second most important fittings on a steam loco after the brake. But there is an additional safety  fitting called  a fusible plug in top of the firebox which is made of lead so melts well below 1000 and will allow the steam and water in the boiler to escape into the firebox. It was virtually a sackable offence to have a plug go, unless both injectors had failed and it wasn't possible to drop the fire quickly enough.

I did an engine driving taster course on the West Somerset a few years ago. There were a couple of blokes in my group who had retired from Hinkley; they found it very hard to get their heads round the concept of a boiler where the water level changed for so many reasons - not just the fact that the water's being boiled away but things like line gradient, pressure changes caused by opening and shutting the regulator, and the chilling effect of injecting fresh (cold) water. Busy person, the firer.

From what they told me, I think it is fair to say that dropping a fusible plug at Hinkley was taken quite seriously too.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 10, 2016, 16:10:41

From what they told me, I think it is fair to say that dropping a fusible plug at Hinkley was taken quite seriously too.

The stuff of nightmares with an advanced gas-cooled reactor design, much less so with a Thorium molten salt plant. At least in theory.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 10, 2016, 19:57:49
But it isn't...

So:

The battery loses mass according to E = mc2

A Tesla P85D has a mass of 2239kg so we need about 806kJ to accelerate it to 60mph. The mass equivalent of this if 806000 / 2997924582 = 8.9x10-12kg

If one electron has a mass of 9.1 x 10-31 kg, so we lose the equivelent of 9.7 x 1018 of them.

Gosh, that's remarkably close to your calculation. I will concede!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 11, 2016, 08:08:23
Looks as if we might have to start raising 'Ein Stein' to the budding mathematicians and physicists on this forum !


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 11, 2016, 11:37:51
Gosh, that's remarkably close to your calculation.

If taking reliable values for physical quantifies, and doing the same calculation, doesn't give the same answer then clearly this isn't proper science. It could be engineering (including coarse back-of-an-envelope science) if the answers are "close enough for our current purposes" - the textbook definition of "approximate."

Of course it could easily be politics or journalism. And these days, more worryingly, economics or psychology (and some other medical fields) are getting the same reputation.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on March 11, 2016, 13:52:56
Looks as if we might have to start raising 'Ein Stein' to the budding mathematicians and physicists on this forum !
Is Rick his brother? ::)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 12, 2016, 00:02:56
So:

The battery loses mass according to E = mc2

A Tesla P85D has a mass of 2239kg so we need about 806kJ to accelerate it to 60mph. The mass equivalent of this if 806000 / 2997924582 = 8.9x10-12kg

If one electron has a mass of 9.1 x 10-31 kg, so we lose the equivelent of 9.7 x 1018 of them.

Gosh, that's remarkably close to your calculation. I will concede!

You spelled "equivalent" wrong, Proffesser.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 12, 2016, 09:22:53
Arse. I was to busy getting the numners write, is my excuse.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 12, 2016, 12:46:51
Quote
Quote
Looks as if we might have to start raising 'Ein Stein' to the budding mathematicians and physicists on this forum !
Is Rick his brother?  ::)

He'd be ' Franken' with the sign of the Fish, if he was .....




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.  :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 12, 2016, 19:08:48
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-35788258):

Quote
Flying Scotsman service starts on North Yorkshire Moors Railway

One of the world's most famous locomotives has started its first series of passenger journeys.

The Flying Scotsman took to the North Yorkshire Moors Railway (NYMR) heritage line after a decade-long, ^4.2m refit.

Its first of six daily services from Grosmont to Pickering started at 09:30 GMT with stops at Goathland, Newtondale and Levisham on route.

A total of 8,500 tickets were purchased for the sold-out locomotive service, which runs until 20 March.

Tickets were sold at ^38 for an adult and ^25 for a child for a full return journey between Grosmont and Pickering, a spokesperson for the NYMR said.

All 8,500 tickets went on sale on 26 October last year and were sold out by Christmas, they added.

NYMR declined to disclose how much money it had made from the sales, but said some of the funds would pay for the "upkeep" of its heritage line.

General Manager Chris Price said: "We're understandably incredibly excited about Flying Scotsman arriving and I'm sure that many others will be too, although we do urge anyone wanting to take photographs to do so from a safe distance and refrain from straying onto the railway itself.

"After recent events, British Transport Police has confirmed that if people are seen trespassing on the tracks, they risk being brought before the courts, a fine of ^1,000 and a criminal record."

The engine, which retired from service in 1963, has been restored for the National Railway Museum (NRM).

It made its inaugural run last month when it travelled from London King's Cross to York before going on display at the NRM.

Thousands of rail enthusiasts flocked to see the locomotive on route with fans venturing on the tracks to catch a glimpse of the engine as it passed by. After a number of disruptions, the locomotive arrived into York an hour later than expected.


My highlighting. CfN.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on March 12, 2016, 20:14:50
Modern Railways appealed for photos of those pillocks so expect further press coverage


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 02, 2016, 06:15:19
Tried earlier to book two seats on the Bristol-Bishops Lydeard run on the 28th May. Sold out already. Have to make do with  photo opportunities on the day.

Glad I didn't book now. 60103 is no longer headed to Taunton and Bishop's Lydeard on that date. Her tour from London is now to Bristol then Salisbury.

Photo opportunity at Temple Meads still a goer. With the possibility of a run round utilising the triangle at Dr Days.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 02, 2016, 07:14:17
Tried earlier to book two seats on the Bristol-Bishops Lydeard run on the 28th May. Sold out already. Have to make do with  photo opportunities on the day.

Glad I didn't book now. 60103 is no longer headed to Taunton and Bishop's Lydeard on that date. Her tour from London is now to Bristol then Salisbury.

That's positive news for me  :)  I will be dropping the wife and daughter at Southampton for their cruise, so a little detour may be undertaken   :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 02, 2016, 08:25:07
Tried earlier to book two seats on the Bristol-Bishops Lydeard run on the 28th May. Sold out already. Have to make do with  photo opportunities on the day.

Glad I didn't book now. 60103 is no longer headed to Taunton and Bishop's Lydeard on that date. Her tour from London is now to Bristol then Salisbury.

Photo opportunity at Temple Meads still a goer. With the possibility of a run round utilising the triangle at Dr Days.

Do we know why this has been changed ?



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 02, 2016, 08:39:11
Engineering works in the Bristol area mean reduced pathing opportunities between Bristol and Taunton.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 02, 2016, 11:38:12
Thanks for the update BNM .


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 08, 2016, 11:18:38
Any further news on the time that Scotsman is due ?.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 08, 2016, 12:36:18
Quote
Any further news on the time that Scotsman is due ?.

May be hard to tell

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14478019.Flying_Scotsman_to_travel_in_secret/

Quote
Details of Flying Scotsman's journeys on the national railway network are being kept secret for safety reasons.

Neither the National Railway Museum, which owns the iconic locomotive on behalf of the nation, and Network Rail, responsible for the railway infrastructure, will say where and when she will be.

British Transport Police have warned they are prepared to prosecute anyone who goes on the railway tracks to get a better view of her.

The decision to withhold her timetable from the public follows scenes on her return to the main line in February after a ten-year refit when people including young children risked their lives by standing on the railway line to get a better view.

Every train on the East Coast Main Line, including Flying Scotsman's, had to be stopped while the tracks were cleared, leading to 59 trains suffering more than eight hours of delays and passengers receiving nearly ^60,000 in compensation from the taxpayer.

Flying Scotsman has a busy schedule of visits to different steam railways across the country and will need to use the national network to reach them as well as pulling her own services.

Jim Lowe, head of operations at the National Railway Museum, said: "It is vital that spectators do not venture onto the railway, particularly when it is on the mainline as a full timetable of regular services will be running. In order to avoid overcrowding and incidents of trespass neither ourselves nor our partners will be publishing recommended viewing points or the timetable of when the train will be passing through specific locations ^ this includes positioning moves.

^We wish those who are taking journeys on trains hauled by the steam icon or going to see it at an event over the coming months an enjoyable experience.^

Phil Hufton, Network Rail managing director England and Wales, said: ^I cannot stress enough how dangerous it is to go onto the railway without any formal training and without permission, as well as being illegal.

"I am urging those who plan to enjoy seeing Flying Scotsman in the coming days to do so from a safe position and do not go onto the railway under any circumstances. I^d like to thank those who have observed safe practices during the Scotsman^s runs so far and ask others to follow that example.^

The only details released about Flying Scotsman's next journeys are that she will travel from York and Newcastle and back sometime on Tuesday and from York to Edinburgh sometime on Saturday.



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 13, 2016, 23:26:48
Reports on the BBC news site state that the upcoming steam dreams trip behind flying Scotsman has been cancelled by network rail due to "gauging issues"


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rob on the hill on May 14, 2016, 14:52:37
Now back on apparently ;D:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-36292966


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 14, 2016, 15:56:10
It would apear that Network Fail failed to gauge the size of the rolocking that they would have been in for if they had stopped this running .


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 15, 2016, 23:06:29
From The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/flying-scotsman-fans-warned-of-safety-crackdown-during-scottish-visit-1-4124071):

Quote
Flying Scotsman fans warned of safety crackdown during Scottish visit

Action will be taken against trespassers on rail lines during this weekend^s visit of the Flying Scotsman locomotive to Scotland and access to station platforms will be restricted because of safety fears.

The warning to steam fans from British Transport Police comes three months after it was criticised for failing to prosecute trespassers who caused major disruption to other trains on a previous Flying Scotsman run in England.

The locomotive^s first visit north of the Border for 16 years will see it arrive in Edinburgh on Saturday evening before excursions on the Borders Railway and over the Forth Bridge to Fife on Sunday.

The 93-year-old engine will also go on show at Bo^ness Station on the Bo^ness and Kinneil Railway on Monday. The number of spectators on platforms will be limited at Waverley Station in Edinburgh on Saturday, and access will be controlled at Tweedbank Station at the end of the Borders line on Sunday.

Only passengers travelling on other trains will be allowed into Dalmeny and North Queensferry stations - where photographers are likely to gather at either end of the Forth Bridge. Footbridges will be kept clear.

Crowds at other stations will be monitored, including to ensure passengers are not hampered from getting on and off other trains.

Drone operators have been warned they must not be flown within 50 metres of railway lines or bridges, or directly above tracks.

Inspector Ricky McCartney said: ^It is extremely dangerous and an offence to trespass on the railway. We will take action against those caught trespassing, and you could end up with a criminal record and facing a fine of up to ^1,000.^

Nigel Harris, managing editor of RAIL magazine, said: ^I salute and support Inspector McCartney, whose tough message is terrific to hear. Trespassing on the railway costs lives, money and wastes resources, and has to be clamped down on.^


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 15, 2016, 23:37:35
Zero tolerance. Only way.

Genuine enthusiasts have already been penalised by the actions of a few. Running times are being withheld as long as possible.

I welcome the stance taken by the BTP. I worry though that genuine enthusiasts, who obey instruction and don't trespass, will be hassled unnecessarily by those in authority.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 15, 2016, 23:45:23
I, too, agree with that approach.  Otherwise, we're potentially back with William Huskisson MP, who got squished on the tracks in his haste to greet the Duke of Wellington.  ::)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2016, 12:09:28
Personally, I reckon that's why NR thought about pulling the trip.....but thought again. Nowt to do with gauging. Bear in mind that NR are responsible for every delay minute caused by those pillocks on railway land....


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 16, 2016, 13:21:49
Personally, I reckon that's why NR thought about pulling the trip.....but thought again.

You are a cynic.  But sometimes cynics are right. I guess that now that Network Rail are a public body, someone's likely to find out under FOI ...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 17, 2016, 10:46:51
Hmmm......

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/flying-scotsman-8-trainspotters-arrested-for-trespassing-1-4129211

Quote
EIGHT trainspotters have been charged with trespassing on the line during the Flying Scotsman^s visit.

Three man, aged 28, 34 and 54, and a 33-year-old woman were caught on the line between South Gyle and Dalmeny stations.

Two men, aged 39 and 41, and two women, aged 39 and 42, were then caught on the line near Glenrothes station.

Chief Superintendent John McBride, Divisional Commander for the British Transport Police in Scotland, said: ^The return of Flying Scotsman was a true spectacle and I want to thank all those people who lined the route and stations to see it as it passed.

^In the main our earlier advice and warnings about not straying on the line to view it were heeded.

^Our officers worked tirelessly with our rail industry partners to ensure the day^s events passed with out any real incident of note.

^It was a truly memorable day for many and I look forward to its return in the future.^


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 17, 2016, 12:52:00
Hmmm......

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/flying-scotsman-8-trainspotters-arrested-for-trespassing-1-4129211

Quote
EIGHT trainspotters have been charged with trespassing on the line during the Flying Scotsman^s visit.

Three man, aged 28, 34 and 54, and a 33-year-old woman were caught on the line between South Gyle and Dalmeny stations.

Two men, aged 39 and 41, and two women, aged 39 and 42, were then caught on the line near Glenrothes station.

Chief Superintendent John McBride, Divisional Commander for the British Transport Police in Scotland, said: ^The return of Flying Scotsman was a true spectacle and I want to thank all those people who lined the route and stations to see it as it passed.

^In the main our earlier advice and warnings about not straying on the line to view it were heeded.

^Our officers worked tirelessly with our rail industry partners to ensure the day^s events passed with out any real incident of note.

^It was a truly memorable day for many and I look forward to its return in the future.^

I trust their binoculars, thermos flasks,Tupperware containers and notebooks will be confiscated?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 17, 2016, 13:19:15
I went out 'spotting' (or rather photting) this past weekend, doing a harmless hobby I enjoy. A hobby done no favours by a small minority who think they can go wherever they please to get pictures of trains. I'm delighted to hear of these prosecutions for criminal trespass.

Don't particularly like lazy stereotypes either. I bought lunch where I was photting, had a beer or two in local pubs and noted numbers of the trains I'd photted on my phone. No Tupperware, Thermos or notebook.

Could we perhaps learn of a hobby of yours too TG, so we can poke fun at it as well.  ::)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 17, 2016, 15:06:01
Could we perhaps learn of a hobby of yours too TG, so we can poke fun at it as well.  ::)

Bigging up Plymouth seems to be his main hobby!   :o


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 17, 2016, 15:26:54
Could we perhaps learn of a hobby of yours too TG, so we can poke fun at it as well.  ::)

Bigging up Plymouth seems to be his main hobby!   :o

You could try rugby if you like? Played that for many years, sadly too old now.............. funny shaped balls, that sort of thing? (As for Plymouth, God's own city needs no help from me.......but you can join me in celebrating/poking fun at Argyle reaching Wembley at Pompey's expense depending on preference!) ;)




Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 17, 2016, 16:12:22
...but you can join me in celebrating/poking fun at Argyle reaching Wembley at Pompey's expense depending on preference!) ;)

You pick the Wetherspoons, I'll be there.  :P


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 17, 2016, 23:23:49
Hmm...

I trust their binoculars, thermos flasks, Tupperware containers and notebooks will be confiscated?

I went out 'spotting' (or rather photting) this past weekend, doing a harmless hobby I enjoy. A hobby done no favours by a small minority who think they can go wherever they please to get pictures of trains. I'm delighted to hear of these prosecutions for criminal trespass.

Don't particularly like lazy stereotypes either. I bought lunch where I was photting, had a beer or two in local pubs and noted numbers of the trains I'd photted on my phone. No Tupperware, Thermos or notebook.

In my experience, the serious train spotters and / or photographers (with their binoculars, video and/or SLR cameras, Thermos flasks and Tupperware containers) are the ones who stay fastidiously behind any white or yellow lines or safety barriers - and get quite agitated if they see anyone not following their example.

The casual / opportunist train spotters (with their mobile phones on selfie sticks, for example) are the ones who are likely to get arrested for criminal trespass on the railways.



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 18, 2016, 10:27:38
In my experience, the serious train spotters and / or photographers (with their binoculars, video and/or SLR cameras, Thermos flasks and Tupperware containers) are the ones who stay fastidiously behind any white or yellow lines or safety barriers - and get quite agitated if they see anyone not following their example.

The casual / opportunist train spotters (with their mobile phones on selfie sticks, for example) are the ones who are likely to get arrested for criminal trespass on the railways.

An "agitation" of trainspotters - a new collective noun? .......does sound quite intimidating though - is this what used to be known as the InterCity Firm?  :)




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 18, 2016, 10:30:46
selfish fits the description.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 19, 2016, 09:18:03
Leaving platform 1 at Paddington on Saturday at 0837....


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 19, 2016, 23:07:23
In my experience, the serious train spotters and / or photographers ... get quite agitated if they see anyone not following their example.

An "agitation" of trainspotters - a new collective noun? ...

No, I meant that serious train spotters / photographers are generally concerned when they see less sensible people behaving irresponsibly trackside - and will report them to railway staff / police if possible, lest their hobby be brought further into disrepute by the actions of those 'selfish' few.  :-X


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Enterprise on May 20, 2016, 12:33:52
An "agitation" of trainspotters - a new collective noun? ...

Surely a sounder of gricers ?
 ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on May 20, 2016, 16:55:28
Does this thread titile need to be amending?

Newly restored "Flying Scotsman "failed"  - ongoing discussion

Injector problems at York, didn't make KX.





Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 20, 2016, 17:32:14
Does this thread titile need to be amending?

Newly restored "Flying Scotsman "failed"  - ongoing discussion

Injector problems at York, didn't make KX.

Oh dear.......I can only imagine the agitation of those waiting to spot it!






Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 20, 2016, 19:35:13
I'm sure they weren't 'chuffed' to see a 47 at the head of the service

Looks like it'll be okay for tomorrows tour though


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2016, 07:56:04
Timings have just gone on up on RTT for 60103's trip from Paddington to Salisbury today, 21st May 2016:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59987/2016/05/21/advanced

Now, do I head over to Westbury or Salisbury this morning...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 21, 2016, 08:14:16
Wherever you go at least we can rely on you being the right side of the fence.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2016, 09:18:16
Decided on Westbury.

60103 left Paddington 12 late but is picking up time down the Thames Valley.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 21, 2016, 10:15:02
Decided on Westbury.

60103 left Paddington 12 late but is picking up time down the Thames Valley.

Let's see what you can do with that spanky new DSLR!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on May 21, 2016, 10:56:08
Caught at THA, on time at around 1002. Not a great pic, but thought I'd share anyway....


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Billhere on May 21, 2016, 11:31:08
Looked in fine form leaving Newbury. A large number of general public stopped by on the Ring Road bridge to watch it pass under, and the platform was well attended.

BTP in attendance on the Down platform, I don't know if there were any at the Racecourse while it took water.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2016, 11:41:01
I'd say around a 100 folk at Westbury. GWR, NR and BTP bods a-plenty too. Only incident was a dog slipping a lead when 60103 'blew off' steam. Stayed away from tracks though.

I can't post any rough and ready shots at the moment as I didn't bring the lead to connect camera to phone. Will post later tonight when back from HST jolly to Newquay.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 21, 2016, 15:15:37
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, minor delays around Reading this morning due to the FS.

Some Muppet Minion (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15212.msg195733#msg195733) decided to run the Flying Scotsman on the down main all the way from Paddington to Reading, this required the 08:50, 09:00 and 09:06 off Paddington to run on the down relief for part of the way in order to overtake 1Z60. As a result the 09:00 used P13 at Reading and crossed back to the main at Tilehurst slightly halting a service from Bristol, the 09:06 used P12 which resulted in a service from Plymouth being held at Reading West for a while (with many spotters worried it would be blocking their view). Allowing the 09:06 to overtake led to the FS having to wait next to Triangle sidings for a few moments, all this delaying the Basingstoke stopper as well. I'm sure Kevin, Stuart & Bob wouldn't have caused this much carnage!

On a separate note it appears that if timings are adhered to then both the Flying Scotsman and the Northern Belle set will be side by side at Paddington at around 21:45 tonight.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2016, 17:14:33
Trespassers reported at Dean & Dunbridge. A Network Rail bod has done a good job of getting them back behind the boundary fence. I hope he was able to get photos of the Muppets too, to pass to BTP.

Another trespasser was detained earlier at Swaything. Good.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 21, 2016, 17:22:42
Train also reported to have been brought to a stand at Swaythling due to trespassers.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2016, 22:24:38
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, minor delays around Reading this morning due to the FS.

Some Muppet Minion (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15212.msg195733#msg195733) decided to run the Flying Scotsman on the down main all the way from Paddington to Reading, this required the 08:50, 09:00 and 09:06 off Paddington to run on the down relief for part of the way in order to overtake 1Z60. As a result the 09:00 used P13 at Reading and crossed back to the main at Tilehurst slightly halting a service from Bristol, the 09:06 used P12 which resulted in a service from Plymouth being held at Reading West for a while (with many spotters worried it would be blocking their view). Allowing the 09:06 to overtake led to the FS having to wait next to Triangle sidings for a few moments, all this delaying the Basingstoke stopper as well. I'm sure Kevin, Stuart & Bob wouldn't have caused this much carnage!

Have a word with 'Nippy' over at RailUK. He's the Thames Valley signaller responsible for 60103's pathing this morning.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2569664&postcount=42



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 22, 2016, 00:30:25
One of the better shots I got of 60103 Flying Scotsman today at Westbury. Dull and overcast certainly didn't help get the best colour in my pictures. More work in post needed.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/IMGP0811_zpsfmqrovnh.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 22, 2016, 19:18:47
A good picture, given the conditions. You hide your light under a bushel!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 22, 2016, 21:48:47
No: it's usually under a flat cap.  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 22, 2016, 22:04:16
Nowt wrong with a flat cap.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2016, 04:42:55
Further post production done on the picture posted earlier. More punchy colour and removal of people.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/scotsman_zpsrlzyiumt.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 23, 2016, 09:23:37
Some constructive criticism, BNM, but I think I prefer the colours on the original photo, especially the slightly darker green. Plus, for me at least, having people milling about in the background adds atmosphere to the shot, though I can see why the lamppost was taken out!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2016, 09:47:01
Merely experimenting with post production. Possibly a little too far with the green, I agree. As for people removal, that was just done to learn the technique.

Oh, and I missed a bit of the lamp-post, sticking out the top of the smoke deflector.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 23, 2016, 09:48:45
Out of interest what file format did you take the photo in and what did you use to enhance it?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2016, 10:07:49
Pentax RAW format .PEF

I have my DSLR set to store RAW+JPG for each shot.

Post production in Adobe Camera Raw for colour correction, exposure, sharpening etc, followed by Adobe Photoshop CS6 where I enhanced the sky, removed people/objects, cropped and tidied up.

Original out of the camera JPG (resized only) attached. I deliberately under exposed when I took the shot as I knew the sky would blow out too much if I exposed for Scotsman's colours.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 23, 2016, 13:00:51
Quote
and removal of people.

I'm sure many members of this forum would wish you could do that with packed commuter services as well  ;)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 23, 2016, 14:10:28
Quote
and removal of people.

I'm sure many members of this forum would wish you could do that with packed commuter services as well  ;)

.....and in BNM's case, certain members of the gateline staff at Paddington!  :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 27, 2016, 09:58:27
60103 will be doing the same route tomorrow to and from Salisbury as she did last Saturday. Again with an afternoon trip around Hampshire.

Sadly not going anywhere near Bristol due I suppose to all the engineering works there.

Surprisingly, timings for the runs to and from Salisbury are already in the public domain.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59988/2016/05/28/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59990/2016/05/28/advanced

Timings for Hampshire are also on RTT.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 28, 2016, 15:48:50
Today's trip seen passing the proposed site of the new Wilton station........

(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/DSC_0325v2_zpspfahdgw1.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rob on the hill on June 06, 2016, 10:29:17
Looks like Flying Scotsman will be passing through our area on 8th June while on a Crewe - Paddington run:
http://uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm#twk


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ray951 on June 08, 2016, 11:01:19
Looks like Flying Scotsman will be passing through our area on 8th June while on a Crewe - Paddington run:
http://uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm#twk
Timings now available http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54521/2016/06/08/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54521/2016/06/08/advanced)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on June 08, 2016, 15:22:29
BTP are still hunting the trespassers - photos from the NR helicopter doing the rounds

(http://home.bt.com/images/police-seek-flying-scotsman-enthusiasts-who-trespassed-on-railway-lines-136406682907403901-160608114006.jpg)

On the BT news website (http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/police-seek-flying-scotsman-enthusiasts-who-trespassed-on-railway-lines-11364066829127)

Quote
Police seek Flying Scotsman enthusiasts who trespassed on railway lines
 
Police want to identify a number of rail enthusiasts pictured trespassing on the tracks to catch a glimpse of Flying Scotsman following a decade-long refit.

Police want to identify a number of rail enthusiasts pictured trespassing on the tracks to catch a glimpse of Flying Scotsman following a decade-long refit.

Images taken from a helicopter operated by Network Rail (NR) show a number of people standing close to rail lines to watch the famous locomotive travelling between Newcastle and York.

Anyone who recognises the people in the photographs is asked to contact British Transport Police (BTP) so it can "enforce the law where appropriate".

The photographs, taken on May 14, show that repeated warnings about the dangers of getting too close to the railway are being ignored by some people.

Flying Scotsman's inaugural run on February 2 was marred by trespassers who walked along the tracks taking photographs as other trains passed on opposing lines.

All trains on the East Coast Main Line were temporarily stopped and taxpayer-funded NR was forced to pay out almost £60,000 in compensation.

Some 59 train services were delayed for a combined total of more than eight hours.

Chief inspector David Oram of BTP said people have put themselves at risk during Flying Scotsman's tour of England and Scotland despite "advice and numerous warnings".


He went on: "In order to keep the public safe we will enforce the law where appropriate, which is why we are releasing the images of people trespassing today in a bid to trace those responsible.

"If you recognise yourself or any of the people pictured in the images please contact us.

"We will continue to identify and take action against trespassers on future journeys to ensure that these pass safely and free from disruption."

Rob McIntosh, route managing director for NR, said: "While I must thank the vast majority of people who have been out to see Flying Scotsman for staying safe, it is deeply worrying to see people standing trackside.

"Tens of thousands of people have been out to see this railway icon on its tour of the country so far, but even one person trespassing is one too many.

"The threat of serious injury is real, as well as causing delays to passengers travelling on other services, and we will continue to work very closely with the British Transport Police to keep our railway safe and to make sure spectators remember their day out for all the right reasons."

Anyone who recognises the people pictured is asked to contact BTP by calling 0800 40 50 40 or texting 61016, quoting reference 314 of 2/6.

Good I say. Lessons need teaching.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Ollie on June 08, 2016, 17:58:42
It's 30 mins late at the moment...16 of those minutes currently attributed to trespass :(


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on June 08, 2016, 18:13:10
It's 30 mins late at the moment...16 of those minutes currently attributed to trespass :(

Oh dear that means it will be dark when it passes my house.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Ollie on June 08, 2016, 18:41:48
It's got a bit of dwell time at Bristol Parkway - if it doesn't need it, could potentially be on time from Bristol. Guess it's just a case of wait and see.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Ollie on June 08, 2016, 19:34:04
It's on time now :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on June 08, 2016, 20:06:12
I've just come home from BPW it was good to see her she left quietly in fact the brush on the back was louder than Scotsman oh well !.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on June 08, 2016, 23:06:16
Observed at Maidenhead at 2140 this evening as I was passing by on the down main.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 21, 2017, 19:59:32
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-39991602):

Quote
Flying Scotsman timetable kept secret to deter trespassing fans

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/146E4/production/_96148638_mediaitem96148637.jpg)
The Flying Scotsman passed through the West Country on Friday

Timetables for the Flying Scotsman will no longer be put online by an operator, in a bid to stop fans trespassing.

Hundreds of people turned out to watch the famous locomotive as it passed through the West Country on Friday.

But its journey from Gloucester to Bristol was delayed by almost an hour, due to about 50 people trespassing on the line near Cam and Dursley.

Operator Steam Dreams said it had been "advised" not to publish details of when the Scotsman was running.

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CE30/production/_96148725_mediaitem96148724.jpg)
Crowds gathered on bridges across the West to catch a glimpse of the famous locomotive as it thundered through

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/F8C4/production/_96148636_mediaitem96148635.jpg)
Due to dozens of people on the line in Gloucestershire, the Flying Scotsman was an hour late

British Transport Police tweeted on Friday that "numerous people on the tracks" had delayed the Flying Scotsman and advised that "that a good pic is not worth endangering your life".

The locomotive is due to make a return trip through the West on Tuesday but the operator said the timings would "not be made available online".

"In order to avoid overcrowding and incidents of trespass we have been advised not to publish recommended viewing points or the timetable of when the train will be passing through specific locations," it said in a statement.

It went on to say that it would also not be giving out "any timetable or route details" through its booking office.

Marcus Robertson, chairman of Steam Dreams, said trespassing on railways lines "to get a better photograph of a train" was "incredibly dangerous".

"Last year we did have a few problems with trespass but [on Friday] there were people with children near the line - and these are 125mph railways," he said.

"We've heard from Network Rail and the BTP, and on our runs next week - in the same areas - there will be far more police activity."




Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 21, 2017, 21:09:28
Quote
operator said the timings would "not be made available online".

Well I found them easy enough, but shan't post here so as not to encourage trespassing  :-\


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 21, 2017, 21:19:04
It's all well and good the operator saying they won't publish timings but somebody should have a word with Network Rail.

The timings are in the open source data feeds provided by NR and used by many websites and apps.

I shall be out photographing Flying Scotsman on Tuesday afternoon. From a safe lineside location. If I see anyone trespassing I won't shy away from giving a bollocking and reporting to BTP. And photographing them.

Oh, and can someone tell the BBC to stop using the definite article when writing about the locomotive 'Flying Scotsman'.  ::)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 22, 2017, 17:39:29
"Flying Scotsman pursued by Flying Brits!"

This picture was taken by Christopher Caithness, who holds the copyright, and is reproduced here by his kind permission. He was flying with Paul Lee at the controls, both being members of Bristol Aero Club, now based at Gloucestershire Airport. They were in my former occasional steed G-BASJ at around 2500' above Woolaston between Chepstow and Lydney.

(http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/Boyamijealous_7108a707/FullSizeRender_zpsdd187tz2.jpg)
©2017 Christopher Caithness


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 22, 2017, 18:52:16
And David Garmston on BBC Points West tonight just referred to 60103 as 'The Flying Scotsman'.

Arrrgghhh.   >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 22, 2017, 19:39:09
And David Garmston on BBC Points West tonight just referred to 60103 as 'The Flying Scotsman'.

Arrrgghhh.   >:( >:( >:(

I heard him say that, and I heard the scream as he did...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2017, 13:46:25
Approaching Filton Abbey Wood around 20 minutes go.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170523_134154_zpsc17ki1is.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on May 23, 2017, 14:21:47
If you wanted to know the whereabouts of this loco today it was being shared with all and sundry at Yatton station this morning (not by railway staff).  I'm sure those who want to know already do and certainly one of those throwing out the details thought the trespass thing was exaggerated and over cautious. In the light of such a cavalier attitude I choose not to pass on the information.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 23, 2017, 16:44:12
Regarding the trespasser featured in the photo in post #150, he should not have done it and I have no sympathy if he is prosecuted.
BUT is it actually dangerous ? he is well clear of the actual track, and in many cases the boundary fence is closer to the track than is the trespasser in the picture.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2017, 17:52:32
Cogload Junction about 20 minutes ago.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170523_174849_zpsb3fqybqi.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on May 23, 2017, 18:29:55
A bit disappointed to learn a few days ago that Flying Scotsman is not going all the way to Minehead but still a very enjoyable journey. And no hold ups due to linesiders thankfully.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2017, 19:21:24
Flying Scotsman off at Bishops Lydeard, to be turned on the Norton Fitzwarren triangle, then LMS 7F 53808 taking the railtour forward to Minehead and return.

Flying Scotsman then reattached to the railtour at Bishops Lydeard later this evening for the return to Bristol TM, then to bed nearby.

53808 at Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago:
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170523_191442_zpst4zkitl6.jpg)




Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 23, 2017, 19:35:46
A bit disappointed to learn a few days ago that Flying Scotsman is not going all the way to Minehead but still a very enjoyable journey. And no hold ups due to linesiders thankfully.

Gauging issues?   Sadly, second time this month if it was on the West Somerset Railway.

Why do loading gauges get reduced?  This isn't the only instance - I believe that platform 3 at Salisbury is now out of bounds for 153s - which is why JourneyCheck has been showing cancellations of services from Westbury to Southampton (which surely puts the skim-reader off travelling) then show an additional train in the same timing under amendments.

When the older trains on the main network eventually get retired, let's hope they can still fit up to Minehead  ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 23, 2017, 19:41:37
When the Somerset Explorer HST trip only went as far as Bishops Lydeard the state of the track was quoted as the reason - no doubt mindful of the problems which befell the special from Okehampton.

So I am not sure if is gauging issues afflicting Flying Scotsman or the condition of the permanent way.  There is a turntable at Minehead which I assume would have been suitable to turn the loco had it reached there.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on May 23, 2017, 19:48:44
Flying Scotsman off at Bishops Lydeard, turned on the Norton Fitzwarren triangle and bed for the night nearby, then LMS 7F 53808 taking the railtour forward to MineheadAt Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago


No, not turned on the triangle, still facing towards Minehead.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 23, 2017, 20:12:40
I cant comment on The Flying Scotsman, but there's a fair bit of steam being blown off on this thread! 😉


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 23, 2017, 20:19:44

At Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170523_191442_zpst4zkitl6.jpg)


To my mind, that is what a branch line should look like.  ;) :D ;D



Excellent picture, bignosemac!  :)



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 23, 2017, 20:30:19
Confused. Is Flying Scotsman staying by the seaside for the night, while its rake of carriages is hauled back to Southall by diesel, via BRI? There remain mysteries on RTT that I have yet to penetrate.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 23, 2017, 20:37:40
Flying Scotsman off at Bishops Lydeard, turned on the Norton Fitzwarren triangle and bed for the night nearby, then LMS 7F 53808 taking the railtour forward to MineheadAt Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago


No, not turned on the triangle, still facing towards Minehead.

I guess it will need to be turned before its two circular trips from Bishops Lydeard to Bath on Friday


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2017, 23:04:27
When the Somerset Explorer HST trip only went as far as Bishops Lydeard the state of the track was quoted as the reason - no doubt mindful of the problems which befell the special from Okehampton.

So I am not sure if is gauging issues afflicting Flying Scotsman or the condition of the permanent way.  There is a turntable at Minehead which I assume would have been suitable to turn the loco had it reached there.

Now, I'd heard, pretty much from a horse's mouth (a GWR HST driver), that there were clearance issues at Watchet that would have required removal of the HST power cars' steps. This would have needed to be done the day before and replaced the day after, meaning the power cars used on the special would have been in scheduled traffic without the steps. Something the majority of drivers were not keen on. No fun trying to get in and out of a cab from the four foot without those steps.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST visited the WSR.

As for Flying Scotsman. Too big for the turntable at Minehead due to the permanently attached corridor tender. The only practical options would have been to drag it back light engine to Norton triangle to turn it, using the Class 47 from the rear of the set. Or have the start of the next tour diesel hauled with FS on the rear.  I was told today that Flying Scotsman's owners don't like having the loco dragged in reverse or running tender first unless absolutely necessary. There are, I was also told, additional costs for doing such moves. Not least keeping the signal boxes open on the WSR late into the evening,  and staffing the stations and crossings to prevent trespass.

As it was, it was already a later finish for station staff and siggies. The Station Master was on duty at Crowcombe Heathfield until the special passed, even though FS had dropped off at Bishop's Lydeard.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 23, 2017, 23:09:34
Well you can't beat information from an on the spot reporter.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST visited the WSR.

Now we know it isn't "the" Flying Scotsman" but is it "a" HST or "an" HST.   ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 23, 2017, 23:16:26
I tend to read abbreviations as the full words. And write as such. So, "A High Speed Train", rather than "An 'igh Speed Train".  ;)

What do the journalism style guides say?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 23, 2017, 23:22:22
"an"

Mind you it also suggests football teams are plural - so it is "Yeovil Town are" rather than "Yeovil Town is" - which some complain about too..


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 23, 2017, 23:30:56
I'm rather inclined to refer to 'an' HST, too.  A 'score draw' on that one, possibly?  :P


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on May 23, 2017, 23:54:00
The on-line Economist style guide (http://www.economist.com/styleguide/a#node-21532141) doesn't mention abbreviations after a/an:
Quote
An should be used before a word beginning with a vowel sound (an egg, an umbrella, an MP) or an h if, and only if, the h is silent (an honorary degree). But a European, a university, a U-turn, a hospital, a hotel. Historical is an exception: it is preceded by an, the h remaining silent.

The one I have in book form (Word perfect, Harrap 1987) is more explicit about letter-groups, saying "be guided by pronunciation". It also gives a historical, saying such words with an unaccented first syllable used to have a silent h but now don't.

Taken at face value, I think you can write either 'a' or 'an' before HST, but when I read it I can change it to suit what I say - either out loud or imaginarily.

That substitution on reading would not be so unusual, I think. The two words 'whilst' and 'amongst' are quite often used in writing, but they are hardly ever spoken. I suspect most people will just substitute 'while' or 'among' when reading out loud. 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 23, 2017, 23:57:16
Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 24, 2017, 00:11:20
Flying Scotsman off at Bishops Lydeard, turned on the Norton Fitzwarren triangle and bed for the night nearby, then LMS 7F 53808 taking the railtour forward to MineheadAt Crowcombe Heathfield about 20 minutes ago


No, not turned on the triangle, still facing towards Minehead.

Apologies, I got that post a bit garbled. I've edited it now to correct the sequence of events.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 24, 2017, 00:13:18
Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

Nah. I did it all on my pushbike.  ;) :P ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on May 24, 2017, 08:06:47
Confused. Is Flying Scotsman staying by the seaside for the night, while its rake of carriages is hauled back to Southall by diesel, via BRI? There remain mysteries on RTT that I have yet to penetrate.


We had a Class 47 take as back from BL to Bristol.

On the way out it appeared to be a late change to do the loco swap at Norton platform rather than BL. That left the many waiting a long time to see Flying Scotsman no doubt being disappointed.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on May 24, 2017, 10:18:04
Well you can't beat information from an on the spot reporter.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST visited the WSR.

Now we know it isn't "the" Flying Scotsman" but is it "a" HST or "an" HST.   ;D
'H' is not a vowel, and as far as I know you only use 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel. So, a class 180 is a HST and a class 158 is an Express Sprinter (also known as an Alphaline). An issue however is that "an one-five-eight" sounds wrong, "a one-five-eight" sounds better but as far as I know is technically incorrect (since 'o' is a vowel and 'one' starts with the letter 'o').


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 24, 2017, 10:33:27
a class 180 is a HST

180 is "an" Adelante


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on May 24, 2017, 11:51:55
Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

Nah. I did it all on my pushbike.  ;) :P ;D

Fuel consumption in pints then?  ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on May 24, 2017, 14:23:17
a class 180 is a HST

180 is "an" Adelante

Yes, a class 180 is an Adelante. It is also a High Speed Train using the broad definition of the term.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 24, 2017, 14:26:24
Yes, a class 180 is an Adelante. It is also a High Speed Train using the broad definition of the term.

And occasionally a pain in the arse when they are playing up!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 24, 2017, 15:03:42
Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  ;D

In the case of my flying buddies, the calibration is in US gallons. Confusion is avoided by looking into the tanks, using the Mark 1 human eyeball.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 24, 2017, 17:30:54
Of course none of this should take away from the excellent photos in this thread which must have involved some planning and a few gallons of petrol.

(oh no that's going to spark a debate about gallons v litres!)  ;D

In the case of my flying buddies, the calibration is in US gallons. Confusion is avoided by looking into the taks, using the Mark 1 human eyeball.


And perhaps a dipstick!.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on May 25, 2017, 00:50:48
Well you can't beat information from an on the spot reporter.

Watchet station's platform has been changed since the last time a HST visited the WSR.

Now we know it isn't "the" Flying Scotsman" but is it "a" HST or "an" HST.   ;D
'H' is not a vowel, and as far as I know you only use 'an' if the following word begins with a vowel. So, a class 180 is a HST and a class 158 is an Express Sprinter (also known as an Alphaline). An issue however is that "an one-five-eight" sounds wrong, "a one-five-eight" sounds better but as far as I know is technically incorrect (since 'o' is a vowel and 'one' starts with the letter 'o').

I find that a surprising opinion from any Welshman, especially one with a forum name that includes a 'y' that's 100% a vowel. Both 'y' and 'w' are primarily vowels in Welsh, and I reckon 'y' in English is more often a vowel* (as in 'early') than a consonant (as in 'yet'). 'W' as a vowel only happens with imports from Welsh, mostly names, but at least one word: 'cwm'.

Basically all this stuff about a letter being either a vowel or a consonant all the time is rubbish. It's all a matter of pronunciation, and in the spoken language it's your own speech that counts. For written English you can say that there is a notional standard pronunciation that determines such things, but it's very hard to pin down what that is. After all, spelling doesn't represent any standard pronunciation, does it?

So, for just the use of 'a' and 'an', it's the sound at the start of what follows that matters. For this case a straight vowel/consonant division is OK (for other things you need to split consonants into stops and continuant). So yes, long initial 'u' (often) and 'o' (rarely) can start with consonantal 'y' and 'w' sounds, and so be preceded with 'a'.

But the example that started this wasn't about words, it was about letter clusters, including abbreviations. (Perhaps that ought to be broadened to "symbol clusters", but that's not needed here.) So it's not the sound of a word spelled with a letter that matters, it's the sound of the name of the letter.

Now these names are rather odd, in that we all know them in spoken form, but have only a semi-official written form and spelling at best. Mostly we borrow a word with the same sound (e.g. 'jay' or 'see'), though a lot of them exist as words derived from the letter ('eff' or 'em'). And eight of the consonants have names that start with a vowel.

As for 'h', it's a special case, as it has two forms: the standard 'aitch' - which does start with a vowel - and the dialect form 'haitch'. This is common in some areas, and in Northern Ireland is a marker of community identity.

But words starting with 'h' contain many special cases as well, as noted in my post above. It's not just a matter of the uneducated "dropping aitches"; there are loan words from French and older English pronunciation patterns. But it could be worse - after all, French has two kinds of 'h', distinguishable by pronunciation, but both silent.

And for one more puzzle, I know of one word in English that has only an abbreviated spelling, and some full spellings imitating the speech of a place or class, but no full-length spelling in standard English.

*Some of these sounds may be called semi-vowels or semi-consonants, but I don't think that's helpful here.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 25, 2017, 08:58:34
Many moons ago, my Primary school teacher had a [not very 2017-PC] little verse that he made us all recite to ensure we pronouced the 'Haich' (a bit like Eliza Doolittle I suppose).................

Harry had a hawk
Put him in a hat box.
Hawk stuck his head out
Harry hit him on the head with a heavy hammer
Hawk hollered horribly

try saying that quickly with a Daarzet or Debn accent  :D ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 26, 2017, 14:05:00
60103 crossing North Town Moor, Langport about 45 minutes ago.
 
(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170526_140139_zpsxavmps76.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 26, 2017, 15:46:37
And folk never learn!  First one on the girder bridge crossing the River Parrett, North Town Moor, Langport (and two HSTs passed him before FS turned up)!; second one from the A361 overbridge just north of Cogload Junction.  Feel free to copy and post to Twitter, Farcebook, etc and shame these idiots.

(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/Idiot1_zpsldlidvek.jpg)
(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/Idiot2_zpscjw7cs4l.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 26, 2017, 17:32:22
In contrast, this spotter, known in this parish, was spotted behaving impeccably on North Town Moor, Langport:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170526_172551-01_zpshkvevxfs.jpeg)

;D



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 26, 2017, 20:21:58
In contrast, this spotter, known in this parish, was spotted behaving impeccably on North Town Moor, Langport:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170526_172551-01_zpshkvevxfs.jpeg)

;D


Guilty Your Honour  :P  :D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 26, 2017, 22:41:09
The last photo from my chasing of Flying Scotsman. Taken about 30 minutes ago as 60103 passed the site of the former Langport East station. Very low light so I dialled up the ISO and used my widest aperture lens. No chance of freezing the action, but I quite like the result.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20170526_223212_zpsvtnuwq6s.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 27, 2017, 21:14:38
And perhaps a dipstick!.

I wasn't in the aircraft.  ;D

If you mean the graduated metal rod, they aren't used in Piper Cherokees, which is what Chris and Paul were flying, as a matter of routine. There are metal "tabs" fitted in the two tanks below the filler hole. With the fuel touching these, there is, IIRC, 18 US gallons in the tank. Filled to the brim, there are 22 US gallons per tank. There are two fuel gauges, one per tank, which are said to be accurate only when the tank is completely full or totally empty.

There are two important sayings regarding fuel. You can use almost any fuel except what you left in the tanker. And you only have too much fuel on board if you are one fire.

Back on thread, those are excellent pictures yet again, BNM, and proof positive that you don't have to trespass to get good shots!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on June 03, 2017, 20:20:42
Had to change trains at Woking today at about 6.20pm and had a 3 minute connection. Whilst waiting for the Portsmouth train I saw a green steam train coming towards us slowly. I wondered at first if it was Tornado but then read Flying Scotsman on the side. Those around me seemed to be as surprised as I was. Maybe those in the know were at the end of the platforms.

What seemed odd to me was that I couldn't really describe it as a steam train because I saw no white or grey steam. Just the sort of clear steam you'd get from a kettle. Is that normal? Perhaps it was being pushed by the diesel at the rear.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 03, 2017, 20:56:28
I ran into a bit of trouble over my suggestion, in a previous discussion here on the Coffee Shop forum (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15554.msg173448#msg173448), when I suggested that steam and / or water vapour were invisible.  ::)

I shall therefore refrain from venturing any such opinion here.  :-X



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 03, 2017, 22:52:54
It is my understanding that water vapour (being the gaseous form of water) is invisible, but steam is a suspension of fine water particles in air and can be visible. Additionally smoke from the fire (which is visible)  may also be mixed with either water vapour or steam. 

On cold days water vapour can quickly change to steam, but on warm days like today it is much slower and the water vapour can disperse before it changes to steam. 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 03, 2017, 22:56:55
That all looks fairly clear to me.  :P



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 04, 2017, 10:08:22
And there was me about to sing "Smoke gets in your eyes" :D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on September 11, 2017, 16:12:13
Flying Scotsman is spending the week (5th-12th September 2017) on the West Somerset Railway. By all accounts it's proving extremely popular with, thankfully, no reports of trespassing or inconsiderate parking along the route.

WSR in conjunction with the local authority and the AA have done an excellent job with signage, parking restrictions, road closures and temporary car parks.

As to Flying Scotsman itself. She may be great at running at speed, but she was defeated by the climb from Bishop Lydeard to Crowcombe Heathfield earlier today. Weather related rail head conditions led to her slipping to a stand. A banking engine had to be sent from Bishops Lydeard to push from the rear. Apparently such an incident was prepared for with an engine and crew on standby.

https://twitter.com/bbcsomerset/status/907208487075287040


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 11, 2017, 16:22:16
It is my understanding that water vapour (being the gaseous form of water) is invisible, but steam is a suspension of fine water particles in air and can be visible. Additionally smoke from the fire (which is visible)  may also be mixed with either water vapour or steam. 

On cold days water vapour can quickly change to steam, but on warm days like today it is much slower and the water vapour can disperse before it changes to steam. 

Close, but no seegar!

Dry steam (or 'steam' as we purists call it) is the invisible gaseous phase of water; wet steam is steam containing droplets of water vapour, which are visible. Essentially your definitions are pi radians out of phase.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickF on September 11, 2017, 16:28:19
It got stuck on slippery rails:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-somerset-41229861/flying-scotsman-gets-stuck-on-somerset-hill


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 11, 2017, 16:37:56
It is my understanding that water vapour (being the gaseous form of water) is invisible, but steam is a suspension of fine water particles in air and can be visible. Additionally smoke from the fire (which is visible)  may also be mixed with either water vapour or steam. 

On cold days water vapour can quickly change to steam, but on warm days like today it is much slower and the water vapour can disperse before it changes to steam. 

Close, but no seegar!

Dry steam (or 'steam' as we purists call it) is the invisible gaseous phase of water; wet steam is steam containing droplets of water vapour, which are visible. Essentially your definitions are pi radians out of phase.

Actually I see that once again I need to wind my neck in: this diagram explains it all far more eloquently than I can:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Phase_diagram_of_water.svg/725px-Phase_diagram_of_water.svg.png)

In short: there is no such thing as steam. Interesting stuff, water. Unlike the Flaming Wastomoney.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 11, 2017, 17:14:13
I rather enjoyed your last post Sir Squirrel, until the last line that is .


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 11, 2017, 17:20:24
In short: there is no such thing as steam..

Except there is - the dispute was only about the words for it. Steam is fine as an everyday word for whatever comes off the top of water when it is heated enough. If you want to discuss exactly what's going on with this steam scientifically, you need scientific terminology, in which the water substance can exist in each of the three familiar phases*. What you see in reality will probably be a combination of them, and other things.

Customary usage in many technical fields also uses "steam", and in context that isn't a problem - for example if that pipe has steam going up it, and this one has water, that's all you want to say.

* At least. As well as plasma (not really a phase of one substance) those pesky physicists do keep inventing new ones.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 11, 2017, 17:59:26
Quote
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on September 11, 2017, 19:01:37
Quote
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.' 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

Quote
The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said, without even looking round.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 01, 2018, 06:15:23
Oops....

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/london-victoria-station-evacuated-after-steam-from-flying-scotsman-sets-off-fire-alarm/ar-AAy53LS?ocid=spartanntp


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 04, 2018, 11:26:20
It makes you wonder where the real problem lies - fire, or stupidly installing alarms?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 04, 2018, 11:31:19
It makes you wonder where the real problem lies - fire, or stupidly installing alarms?


Perhaps the real problem is in the outdated practise of carrying a fire around with you on a moving platform? ;D ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on June 04, 2018, 12:49:13
It makes you wonder where the real problem lies - fire, or stupidly installing alarms?


Perhaps the real problem is in the outdated practise of carrying a fire around with you on a moving platform? ;D ;D

I thought it was contained in the text here:
Quote
Network Rail said in a statement: "Earlier this evening a charter steam train upon arriving into London Victoria station had set off the pre-alarm on the fire panel.

"Although no fire was discovered and the issue was confirmed as a false alarm, the fire alarm system entered full evacuation mode and the correct process for a full alarm was carried out as per the safety standard.

So what is a "pre-alarm"? I guess it means the sensors have a second threshold below the "full fire" one, to give better sensitivity, but allowing the inevitable false alarms to be quickly cancelled. If so, then the system should not have entered full evacuation mode. So it's a software fault, in the broadest sense, or possibly user error (e.g. pressed wrong button).


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on June 04, 2018, 14:23:29
Possibly not cancelled within the time limit


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on June 05, 2018, 20:20:40
A "pre alarm" is usually understood to mean that a smoke or heat detector has reached the alarm threshold, and that staff are alerted in some non public way and go to the area in question to inspect and see if there is a fire.

The person inspecting for fire has some short and pre-set time to send a message "all in order, no fire" If this message is not received and acted upon in time, then the evacuation warning is given.

The pre alarm is also often given in some discreet way to staff in retail units in order that cash and valuables may be secured before an evacuation.

Most fire alarm systems also give the emergency evacuation signal immediately if more than a certain number of detectors are triggered.




Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 05, 2018, 21:45:53
At larger stations a pre-alarm is often accompanied by coded PA messages that alert station/retail staff so they are prepared should the general alarm sound. The most common PA mentions "Inspector Sands (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Sands)".


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on June 05, 2018, 21:57:26
At larger stations a pre-alarm is often accompanied by coded PA messages that alert station/retail staff so they are prepared should the general alarm sound. The most common PA mentions "Inspector Sands (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Sands)".


Yea, I've heard cryptic announcements in Emerson Green's Sainsbury's but these were warnings that a shoplifter was active in the store.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 05, 2018, 22:06:09
Years ago, an announcement at Bristol airport for "Extension 286 to contact..." was the signal for Special Branch to put the tea down and get running.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 10:02:48
If there is a more appropriate thread to post the undermentioned mods please act accordingly.

Alan Peglars, the man who originally saved the Flying Scotsman, last wish was his ashes to be consumed in the firebox of the locomotive.

His last wish was carried out yesterday by his daughter who was on the footplate of the locomotive and placed his ashes on a shovel which she then carefully consigned into the firebox whilst the engine was en route to York.

A truly fitting tribute to Alan.

Thank You Alan.
 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 14, 2018, 10:11:57
Yes, we have a lot to thank Alan Pegler for. Even if Flying Scotsman all but bankrupted him.

But...
the Flying Scotsman

Tut tut. ::):P


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on October 14, 2018, 10:17:35
Yes, we have a lot to thank Alan Pegler for. Even if Flying Scotsman all but bankrupted him.

But...
the Flying Scotsman

Tut tut. ::):P


All right.

FLYING SCOTSMAN


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 14, 2018, 10:25:46
No offence meant. Its a pedantic peccadillo of mine. One of many.

Writing it in bold and caps actually looks quote good. Close to the original Gill Sans typeface used by the LNER. ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 15, 2018, 05:53:52
No offence meant. Its a pedantic peccadillo of mine. One of many.

Writing it in bold and caps actually looks quote good. Close to the original Gill Sans typeface used by the LNER. ;D

Its

Tut Tut!  ::) :P ;)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on October 15, 2018, 09:18:26
Monty Python's Flying Circus .


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on October 15, 2018, 18:52:10
No offence meant. Its a pedantic peccadillo of mine. One of many.

Writing it in bold and caps actually looks quote good. Close to the original Gill Sans typeface used by the LNER. ;D

Its

Tut Tut!  ::) :P ;)

And who started this Pedants' Revolt?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 19, 2018, 01:14:42
Which Tyler.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 21, 2018, 19:27:00
I've been applying a fresh lick of paint to the Melksham Rail User Group site these last couple of days - what I had provided previously was impractical to consistently maintain to look even a third decent. And in doing so and pulling in resources to  a common format I came across this.

(http://www.mrug.org.uk/history/flying-scotsman-at-melksham.jpg)

I am currently at the "building up" stage of the Facebook page and would really appreciate likes (thank you) on the main page [[here]] (https://www.facebook.com/Melksham-RUG-284487172196070).  More historic pictures at http://www.mrug.org.uk/history.html ... from where you can link around the site.  More historic information, and user pages too, on their way.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on December 21, 2018, 19:54:30
Done


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on December 21, 2018, 20:13:17
I have wondered many times what happened to the second tender that was at one time in 4472's reincarnation provided to allow 4472 to make longer runs without the need to stop for water, is it still stored somewhere with a view to its use at some point in the future.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on December 21, 2018, 20:32:44
A shaky cine footage transferred to video of first run with second tender at ;-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiJ7XsEK0M4


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on December 21, 2018, 20:46:29
I have wondered many times what happened to the second tender that was at one time in 4472's reincarnation provided to allow 4472 to make longer runs without the need to stop for water, is it still stored somewhere with a view to its use at some point in the future.

"Borrowed" & repainted ??

(http://i68.tinypic.com/1z1sraw.jpg)



Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 21, 2018, 23:49:35
Done

#MeToo.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 18, 2019, 22:01:52
Flying Scotsman will be visiting the Swanage Railway in late March - early April 2019. It'll be hauling special trains (at a special ticket price - advance booking only) for 5 days, Friday 22nd - Tuesday 26th March. In the special train consist will be Pullman Observation Car 14 "Devon Belle" which Flying Scotsman was paired with on its tour of the USA 50 years ago.

Following the running days Flying Scotsman will then be on static display at Corfe Castle for 15 days, with ticketed viewing access.

More information and booking:
https://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/events/detail/flying-scotsman-running-days





Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on January 19, 2019, 08:42:27
If you are thinking of going and taking Finn then check that dogs will be allowed. When the engine visited the Bluebell a year or so ago they revoked their dog policy for the duration. This meant I had to abandon a trip I had planned to do the E Grinstead extension.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on March 21, 2019, 21:04:36
Flying Scotsman will be visiting the Swanage Railway in late March - early April 2019.

It has arrived - getting a wash and brush up today before its first run tomorrow.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/iwtabo.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: MVR S&T on March 21, 2019, 21:11:42
So what is the attraction, a steam engine on a steam railway, yes it ran at 100 miles an hour, not the first steam engine to do so?
Its also the wrong colour and has two extra bits on the front.....
 :)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 21, 2019, 21:13:04
Yes, and I much prefer the other engine in the background of that last photograph ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 21, 2019, 21:29:23
Yes, and I much prefer the other engine in the background of that last photograph ;D

Or even better ... something from this page (http://www.semgonline.com/proto/pres-locos.html)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on March 21, 2019, 22:33:14
Yes, and I much prefer the other engine in the background of that last photograph ;D

(http://i63.tinypic.com/bgzf40.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 22, 2019, 02:25:27
(http://i63.tinypic.com/bgzf40.jpg)

On tour - from Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/03/steam-locomotive-419-to-visit-the-epping-ongar-railway.html)

Quote
The Epping Ongar Railway has announced steam locomotive 419 will be visiting the line in 2019.

419 will be visiting the line for their Steam Gala, which is to be held from the 7th to the 9th June 2019.

The Caledonian tank appears alongside the home fleet of locomotives at the line.
 
The locomotive appears thanks to the Scottish Railway Preservation Society.

No. 419 returned to steam in October 2018 and is based at the Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway in Scotland. The locomotive has not visited England since 1982 and is its first visit to the EOR.

The locomotive was built by the Caledonian Railway at St Rollox Works, Glasgow, in 1907 and was designed by J.F. Mcintosh for branch line work before its career was ended on pilot duties for British Railways at Carstairs.

An appropriate style of locomotive for heritage branch lines.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 05, 2019, 17:00:29
I see Flying Scotsman has been heavily delayed again (2 hours and counting), this time en-route from York to Paddington due to trespassing at several locations.  Other trains also caught up in it as a result.  Time to ban mainline steam?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 05, 2019, 18:15:38
Time to ban mainline steam?

I sense you may be asking that question to provoke discussion?

In my former Community Rail role,  concerned with promoting the station and rail use at Melksham, my initial view was that steam trains calling there were a really good thing.  Then I saw what happened ... at an unstaffed station with a sloped platform end (in those days), whole loads of people - mostly not in the first flush of youth - left the platform and stood on the bank off to one side.   Others walked down the slope too - clear of the track, but not clear of where the train would be coming.    I moved Granny with grandchild in arms back from the line (and I do hope the child didn't hear the words she used) just before the service train came the other way.   The goons on the bank, when I asked them to move as they were setting a bad example, explained that (a) they were perfectly safe, (b) that they had done this before - there was a precedent and (c) I had no authority to move them - I could merely ask, and they were going to decline my request.

Trains at Melksham appear from under a bridge and behind a fence, and a couple of other goons were leaning over - into the path of the train.   They assured me they would pull back as it approached, and there was no need for me to worry about them tripping ...

In following up, I got in touch with the tour organiser, relayed what I had seen and suggested they take a careful look for next time.   Six weeks later (!) they put me in touch with the local volunteer who did their publicity, who said he had send an email to see if someone from the company should be there half an hour before the train next time, and that he would get in touch next time they organised a special ...

I shed no tears that - although a further steam train or two have been scheduled to call at Melksham - it/they were cancelled a week or two before the trips were due.

Who pays the compensation for delays when trespassers on the line get in the way of railway operations?    Is in Network Rail, the train companies who's trains are delayed, or the owner or operator of the steam locomotive that the people who have trespassed have come to see?





Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 05, 2019, 18:34:30
I remember you recounting that tale before.  Nothing annoys me more than those that think the fact they know more about the railway than your average person gives them some kind of authority and special rights to trespass.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 05, 2019, 19:38:24
Looking at live signalling maps there has been some activity in Hinksey sidings with a light loco being brought in to the front of the train. 

I have heard it is to terminate at Reading with the train then running empty to Southall.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 05, 2019, 20:38:08
Bobm was correct. Currently showing as 5Z31 in platform 15 at Reading on Traksy and on RTT stating problem with engine.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: MVR S&T on May 05, 2019, 20:44:32
Quote from realtime trains: This service was cancelled between Reading and London Paddington due to a problem with a steam locomotive (ME).

Nice end to a 9 day land cruise arround britain a trip on a 800. or is there an HST about.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 05, 2019, 20:59:48
The remaining HSTs have to finish at Laira I understand so unlikely.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on May 05, 2019, 21:14:06
Quote from realtime trains: This service was cancelled between Reading and London Paddington due to a problem with a steam locomotive (ME).

Nice end to a 9 day land cruise arround britain a trip on a 800. or is there an HST about.

ECS passed my house around  21:00


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2019, 06:57:05
From The Sutton and Croydon Guardian (https://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/17620251.trespassers-on-tracks-block-trains-from-london-bridge/)
Quote
Due to trespassers on the railway between London Bridge and Peckham Rye all lines are blocked.
As a safety precaution all trains are at a stand while the issue is dealt with by the emergency service and Network Rail.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised.

I'm noting that yesterday we had - once again - services stopped because of trespassers out to see the Flying Scotsman.  This parallel, much more common and less reported type of story reminds us of trespassers on the track elsewhere, and presumable for other reasons than to see heritage trains.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 06, 2019, 08:38:43
It has become a very common event on a daily basis as the Twitter accounts of SWR, GWR and SR report.
With Flying Scotsman, surely the charter companies will look twice at using it if they are the ones paying the delay minutes fees.

This is what the train drivers are having to put up with

Thttps://twitter.com/highspeedpanda/status/1125139489255501824?s=21


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on May 06, 2019, 09:25:00
I wonder how much the charter companies pay in various access fees/charges, and whether a better solution might be to frontload the cost of the previous year's disruption onto the next year's fees. This would encourage the charter companies to look at ways of preventing trespassing in the first place, rather than paying delay fees that would mean perpetually reacting to trespassing that had already taken place. Of course, the charter companies could instead decide that running the tours was no longer financially viable, which would then bring about the de facto main line steam ban that some have suggested as an alternative solution.

Or am i being too rational?...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 06, 2019, 10:47:34
It has become a very common event on a daily basis as the Twitter accounts of SWR, GWR and SR report.
With Flying Scotsman, surely the charter companies will look twice at using it if they are the ones paying the delay minutes fees.

This is what the train drivers are having to put up with

Thttps://twitter.com/highspeedpanda/status/1125139489255501824?s=21
Just looking at that image made me cross, the unbelievable stupid behaviour of some people. Like one person said on that thread, they are old enough to know better...clearly not.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2019, 11:14:53
And the press feed out the running times to all and sundry --- from Daniel Morrow, Trainee Reporter, Lincolnshire Live - ((here)) (https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/news/lincoln-news/flying-scotsman-stopping-lincolnshire-heres-2836989)

Please note - I have altered the times so that this in now FAKE NEWS ... as I'm making a point and not wanting to make crowds who ... based on an article without even a token warning to safety ... seems to add fuel to the fire.

Quote
Train lovers have been urged to be on the lookout as the Flying Scotsman is set to pass through Lincolnshire.

The world famous steam locomotive will be travelling through the county on its trip from London to York on Tuesday, May 7.

Its route will pass through Spalding, Metheringham before stopping at Lincoln Central. The Flying Scotsman will then pass through Saxilby and Gainsborough stations.

[snip]

Trainspotters will be able to see the train pass through Spalding at 2.56pm before it stops at Metheringham station at 3.27pm – when it will remain at the station for 13 minutes.

The next stop for the world famous train will be at Lincoln Central at around 3.53pm – but you will have to be quick as it will only stay at the station for two minutes.

It will then set off towards York, passing both Saxilby and Gainsborough at around 4.04pm and 4.15pm respectively.

Daniel may be a trainee reporter ... I wonder what his editor's directives are ... balance between "get as many readers as you can" and encouraging unthought/dangerous behaviour.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 06, 2019, 13:29:19
The image has been shared with Ian Prosser (ORR) and BTP on Twitter. One hopes that that will speed up identification.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 06, 2019, 13:33:56
Hopefully the trainee reporter can be taught not to use the definitive article when writing about Flying Scotsman. ::) ;)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2019, 14:07:35
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 06, 2019, 14:43:15
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.
Might as well ban it now then because it’s been proved over and over that they don’t.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on May 06, 2019, 14:46:13
Quote from: TaplowGreen
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.

I was just about to post on the subject as Taplow Green posted this.

One question that I would like answered is whether it is only this engine that is a particular problem? We don't appear to see many similar reports about other steam workings.

When I was on one of the 1T57 commemorative trips last August there were certainly plenty of linesiders, and Appleby station was overflowing with a lot of people of a "certain age" wth cameras in their hands, but I never saw anyone doing anything stupid.

If it is a problem that mainly only besets 4472/60103 then perhaps Network Rail may be on to something. Whilst it would be a nuisance (to put it mildly...) for the return on investment in the restoration being limited, perhaps it would be for the best if this engine were only allowed to potter along heritage railways at 25mph. It would certainly be for the best if the end result of continuous and repeated trespass incidents surrounding this engine resulted in another blanket ban on steam workings.

I am old enough to remember the last one!

PS - if anyone is interested in some grainy instamatic shots I took of Operation 6000, when KGV took the Bulmers train out for a ride in 1971, they are here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/18202252402/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/17585298453/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/18207091091/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/17583269484/


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2019, 15:13:23
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.
Might as well ban it now then because it’s been proved over and over that they don’t.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48170533

....and this from a train driver.....

https://twitter.com/HighSpeedPanda/status/1125139489255501824?s=19


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 06, 2019, 17:09:45
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.

Hopefully the trainee reporter TaplowGreen can be taught not to use the definitive article when writing about Flying Scotsman. ::) ;)

My emphasis and alterations  ;)  ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 06, 2019, 17:29:19
From last night.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrcogginsGarage


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2019, 17:33:12
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.

Hopefully the trainee reporter TaplowGreen can be taught not to use the definitive article when writing about Flying Scotsman. ::) ;)

My emphasis and alterations  ;)  ;D

I sincerely regret coming to the attention of (the) Grammar Nazis  :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 06, 2019, 17:40:16
Way off topic, but from Journey Check
https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/

Line Update
Delays to services between Totnes and Plymouth
Due to trespassers on the railway between Totnes and Plymouth trains have to run at reduced speed on all lines.
Train services running through these stations may be delayed by up to 30 minutes. Disruption is expected until 18:30 06/05.
Last Updated:06/05/2019 17:29

Are we expecting said engine passing through? ;D


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 06, 2019, 23:28:16
Hopefully the trainee reporter can be taught not to use the definitive article when writing about Flying Scotsman. ::) ;)

Or definitive times. That's definite, for sure!


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 07, 2019, 15:50:36
Hopefully the trainee reporter can be taught not to use the definitive article when writing about Flying Scotsman. ::) ;)

Or definitive times. That's definite, for sure!

Oh bum. Hoist again by one's petard. I, of course meant 'definite'.



Meanwhile there's these two prize turnips from the recent outing of Flying Scotsman.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/D51MZOqWkAI2ZbB_zps4gvwgayn.jpeg)

Conflicting reports about how the Voyager came to a stand. It had either been cautioned to 5mph because of these trespassers and then stopped on sight of them, or had had the signal thrown back and emergency stopped.

Whatever the reason for the stop there's simply no excuse for those two muppets to be where they are. I've no qualms sharing their faces. I hope they will be, or have been, identified by BTP and are facing prosecution for railway trespass. I'd like to see a charge for obstructing engines or carriages on railways (Malicious Damage Act 1861) too. That can carry a sentence of up to two years in prison.

Idiots.

EDIT: Tweets from the driver involved. Confirms he had signals thrown back at him. Also confirms later in the twitter thread that his photos and the forward facing CCTV have been sent to BTP.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HighSpeedPanda/status/1125139489255501824

EDIT: Apologies to TG. I somehow missed his earlier post with the same link.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Celestial on May 07, 2019, 16:16:33
Maybe that sign should say "Warning - Limited Intelligence".


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 07, 2019, 16:34:10
Tweet from Chris Milner earlier today, part of a thread discussing the event

https://twitter.com/chris_railway/status/1125723397265272833?s=21

Quote
Having mentioned campaign, an embargoed NR release has appeared in the in box which relates to trespass generally and mentions taking photos. Embargo is until midnight, so things are happening 


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 07, 2019, 16:45:31
It'll be very interesting to read that Network Rail press release.

Hopefully it'll be directed at prosecuting trespassers rather than banning heritage rolling stock from mainline.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on May 07, 2019, 17:02:38
I was wondering if there is any way to "spoil" the appearance of a locomotive while running - metaphorically putting a bag over her head. It would need to be quick to apply and remove at stopping and other approved viewing places, but aerodynamically viable and structurally sound for safety reasons. One approach would be a bit like the infra-red jammers used on aircraft against missiles - not just a light show but designed to upset cameras. I'm sure there are other possibilities as well.

Of course it wouldn't work if it became a sight worth (for some people) going to photograph in itself.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 07, 2019, 17:21:04
[jest mode]
Can I try some of whatever you're drinking stuving? :P ;) ;D
[/jest mode]

Some would argue that Flying Scotsman's lines have already been spoiled by the addition of the double chimney and smoke deflectors. Something the purists argued could have been removed in her recent restoration, taking her appearance back to 'as built'.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 08, 2019, 03:05:57
It'll be very interesting to read that Network Rail press release.

Hopefully it'll be directed at prosecuting trespassers rather than banning heritage rolling stock from mainline.

Here it is ... Network Rail Media Centre (https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/new-national-partnership-launched-to-tackle-increasing-numbers-of-railway-risk-takers)

Quote
Wednesday 8 May 2019
New national partnership launched to tackle increasing numbers of railway risk takers

Network Rail and the British Transport Police (BTP) have today launched a new partnership with the English Football League Trust (EFL Trust) and StreetGames to help tackle the increasing number of people risking their lives on the railway.

Separate thread  ((here)) (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21543.msg264565#msg264565)... as it's far, far separate from just Flying Scotsman risk takers


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 09, 2019, 18:29:21
Flying Scotsman has been fitted with CCTV cameras to capture images of people on 'the wrong side' and persons so captured will be prosecuted with their publication in/on the media to be identified.

Bristol Post posted details of a forthcoming FS outing to Worcester, approximate times and where to see it INCLUDING the site of at least one former station site where the remnants of a platform still exists.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 11, 2019, 00:04:14
It shouldn't be too long before the muppets pictured upthread are facing plod and then a magistrate. The BBC have published the picture of their blatant trespassing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48219462


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 11, 2019, 16:40:54
It shouldn't be too long before the muppets pictured upthread are facing plod and then a magistrate. The BBC have published the picture of their blatant trespassing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48219462

………..I wonder how many of said muppets will be behaving in a similarly irresponsible and moronic way when the HSTs set out on their final journeys in the near future?


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 12, 2019, 05:18:35
Reading some speculation in the Press today that Network Rail may ban The Flying Scotsman if trespassing morons continue to delay scheduled services.

A follow up on that from The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48229400) including comment from Network Rail.

Quote
Network Rail said a ban would be a "move of last resort" but could not be ruled out if lives were being risked.

It would not let "a few thoughtless lawbreakers" cause dangers and delays, it said.

Nearly 60 services were delayed for a total of 1,000 minutes as Flying Scotsman complete its tour of the Midlands last weekend, British Transport Police (BTP) said.

and

Quote
One passenger service driver, who asked to remain anonymous, said he saw trainspotting trespassers every 200 yards.

Describing it as "probably the most stressful experience I have ever had", he said it was "only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed" trying to get a photo.

and

Quote
A Flying Scotsman spokesman said a ban "would not be a surprise" but every effort, such as CCTV and extra police on the train, was being taken to avoid the situation.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 12, 2019, 07:24:25
.....more from the BBC, featuring our two favourite gurning trackside morons, who are now being sought by the Police.....anyone know them?

BBC News - Flying Scotsman trespassers spark track ban threat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48229400


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 12, 2019, 15:08:41
It shouldn't be too long before the muppets pictured upthread are facing plod and then a magistrate. The BBC have published the picture of their blatant trespassing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48219462

………..I wonder how many of said muppets will be behaving in a similarly irresponsible and moronic way when the HSTs set out on their final journeys in the near future?

I doubt it.
HSTs were very common until recently, and a photo or a viewing of the last service is not different enough to be worth the trouble.
The problems might arise in years to come when a preserved HST makes a rare main line trip.

Returning to the present trespass problems, I would hope that the courts start imposing more significant penalties for such trespass. If the owner of a child is involved one might hope that they could be charged with endangering the child.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on May 12, 2019, 15:46:07


………..I wonder how many of said muppets will be behaving in a similarly irresponsible and moronic way when the HSTs set out on their final journeys in the near future?

I doubt it.
HSTs were very common until recently, and a photo or a viewing of the last service is not different enough to be worth the trouble.
The problems might arise in years to come when a preserved HST makes a rare main line trip.

Returning to the present trespass problems, I would hope that the courts start imposing more significant penalties for such trespass. If the owner of a child is involved one might hope that they could be charged with endangering the child.

As far as the final runs of the HST are concerned, it would appear that problems are currently happening ON the trains rather than lineside. I am a member of a closed Facebook group that is moderated by drivers and there have been reports of extremely moronic behaviour by so-called enthusiasts on several services.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 12, 2019, 21:41:26


………..I wonder how many of said muppets will be behaving in a similarly irresponsible and moronic way when the HSTs set out on their final journeys in the near future?

I doubt it.
HSTs were very common until recently, and a photo or a viewing of the last service is not different enough to be worth the trouble.
The problems might arise in years to come when a preserved HST makes a rare main line trip.

Returning to the present trespass problems, I would hope that the courts start imposing more significant penalties for such trespass. If the owner of a child is involved one might hope that they could be charged with endangering the child.

As far as the final runs of the HST are concerned, it would appear that problems are currently happening ON the trains rather than lineside. I am a member of a closed Facebook group that is moderated by drivers and there have been reports of extremely moronic behaviour by so-called enthusiasts on several services.

.......please don't tell me Broadgage has been trying to pinch the contents of an entire buffet car for old times sake? 😉


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on May 12, 2019, 22:57:57
If the owner of a child is involved one might hope that they could be charged with endangering the child.

Err, do you mean parent or guardian? :-\


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on May 13, 2019, 00:27:53
.....more from the BBC, featuring our two favourite gurning trackside morons, who are now being sought by the Police.....anyone know them?

BBC News - Flying Scotsman trespassers spark track ban threat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48229400

The picture also appeared in the Times, along with an appeal for information by BTP. You would think they would have twigged and gone to the station to explain why they aren't subject to the rules. It can't be long before they get nabbed - I've seen less distinct pictures of the Queen.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 25, 2019, 02:44:41
From letters in the Doncaster Free Press (https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/opinion/trainspotters-are-not-to-blame-for-rail-fiasco-1-9787642)

Quote
Regarding the possible Flying Scotsman ban because of "trainspotters". You should be aware, it's not "trainspotters" or "foamers" or "gricers" or whatever you want to call us.

It's the grannies and grand kids and families and neighbours who hear about it on social media but know nothing about railways or the rules of railways. They're causing all the problems.

The trainspotters are suffering the consequences.

I would agree that a significant number of the problems are caused by those who don't know the rules. Sadly, experience suggests that a significant number of problems on steam charters are caused by the "trainspotters" who should know better. Whether the increase in volume of people out to see Flying Scotsman comes from grannies or trainspotters I wouldn't care to say.

In any case, those who know the rules and should know better should always set a good example, but haven't on various occasions been doing so.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2019, 17:28:06
More problems at Kemble. From Gloucestershire live (https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/watch-moment-woman-very-near-2982919)

Quote
Gloucestershire photographer Clint Randall of www.pixelprphotography.co.uk was at the station taking photographs when he caught the incident on video and posted it on- line to warn others not to get too close to the platform edge in their excitement.

"Just watched the Flying Scotsman almost take someone’s head off at Kemble," he said.

One person commented: " Madam, please' and gently moves her away from instant death. Wonderfully British response to an unbelievably stupid act."


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 16, 2019, 08:26:51
No problems in North Swindon as a small group, many with young children, came to see the train pass.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/flyscotjun19.jpg)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2019, 08:30:56
…..any news on the apprehension of The Flying Scotsman's very own Stadler and Waldorf yet?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48219462


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 16, 2019, 09:01:44
The

 :P


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on June 16, 2019, 11:59:32
I was genuinely surprised how many people came down to see the Flying Scotsman take on water at Charlbury. There's usually a crowd for any steam engine, but this was an order of magnitude more than normal.

(Plus the down Hereford was 20 minutes late off the single line, so everyone got more than their money's worth!)


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on June 17, 2019, 21:27:40
The
That's a pet hate of mine too !

THE............ Salisbury Plain
THE............ HMSNonsuch
....................................aaargh !


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2019, 13:12:23
'The Gower' is my pet peeve... it's either 'Gower' or 'The Gower Peninsula'. I wish no-one had pointed it out to me (but now you know too - hah!); sometimes I wish I could un-know things...


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on June 18, 2019, 13:21:19
'The Gower' is my pet peeve... it's either 'Gower' or 'The Gower Peninsula'. I wish no-one had pointed it out to me (but now you know too - hah!); sometimes I wish I could un-know things...

You think that's bad ... I was just reading a newspaper report that contained "the Westminster Abbey". Admittedly it was Australian, but on the other hand it was written in 1898.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on June 18, 2019, 13:30:37
'The Gower' is my pet peeve... it's either 'Gower' or 'The Gower Peninsula'. I wish no-one had pointed it out to me (but now you know too - hah!); sometimes I wish I could un-know things...

Mumbles away To himself under his breath !.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on June 18, 2019, 14:05:23
Years ago I was told it's the Mendip Hills, not "the Mendips". It still peeves me to hear the local Beeb news referring the Mendips.


Title: Re: Newly restored "Flying Scotsman" back in service - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 18, 2019, 14:20:14
Years ago I was told it's the Mendip Hills, not "the Mendips". It still peeves me to hear the local Beeb news referring the Mendips.

Aaaaaaargh!



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