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I've spent far too much time on trains this last week including trips to and from Glasgow on the Pendelino service.

The service I used was non-stop from Euston to Warrington Bank Quay - which is just under two hours. Out of curiosity is there a maximum time limit a driver can go between stops? It seems quite a long stretch or maybe there is more than one driver...just curious!

BB

Drivers on the WCML will typically change over at Preston.

ASLEF recommend a break for drivers between 3 to 5 hours after shift start.

Virgin do have a train in the afternoon that only stops at Preston on it's way to Glasgow.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y82696/2016/03/03 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y82696/2016/03/03)

Many thanks - but I think I must have phrased by question wrongly....so let me try again :)

Is there a maximum time between station stops that a driver is allowed to drive for? I will be having a look at the "one stop at Preston" RTT entry as by my reckoning that must be 3 hours between Euston and the first schedule stop

No maximum as such, though whatever rules apply the TOC's 'continuous driving' limits would need to be adhered to.

Which will become a normal London-Glasgow station stops service from the May timetable change thus ending the era of the London to Glasgow express service taking a little over 4 hours. A luxury that can no longer be afforded.

Are you suggesting that long distance fast trains with minimal stops are a luxury, and that the affordable approach is to have more stops to allow more journey opportunities?   There seems significant logic to stopping long distance expresses at major interchanges / hubs along the way.    I suppose for London to Glasgow, that would be Crewe, Preston and Carlisle ... for London to Plymouth, logic might suggest Reading, Westbury and Exeter St. David's.

I wondered about the rules in the UK over drivers' hours after a trip on the Swedish Inlandsbanan between ^stersund and G^llivare last summer.  On that run the same driver (with no assistant) drives north for around 14 hours (with breaks), stays overnight in a very nice hotel and then drives south. 28 hours driving (plus prep/positioning moves) out of 48, admittedly not at high speed, but with plenty of large wildlife hazards on the unfenced track, seemed excessive to me. Apparently the rosta involved a further 12 hours driving the the day before this sequence began on the southern section of the line to/from Mora. The driver I met was retired (!) and was employed only for the short summer season when these trains run.  I'm not sure what ASLEF would have to say to such an arrangement.

The timetable can be seen here: inlandsbanan.se/en/travel/timetables#.Vti7pClo4-9 (http://inlandsbanan.se/en/travel/timetables#.Vti7pClo4-9)

Despite my reservations the trip is well worth doing - but not all in one go.

Coach drivers are allowed to drive for 5.5 hours without a break, so 3 hours doesn't seem excessive in comparison.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-passenger-vehicles/2-great-britain-domestic-rules

In my role, as a van delivery driver, my manual's instructions on 'Breaks from driving' state:

HSS drivers maximum of 4 hours (mon-sat) and 4 1/2 hours (Sunday) continuous before a 10 min cab break as a minimum... total driving is 8 hours per shift (possibly 8 1/2 on a Sunday not certain)

LTV drivers maximum is 5 hours, unless a cab break of 14 mins then 6 hours is limit.
Total driving 8 1/2 hours per shift

There are also mileage limits but will have to ask a friend for that figure....I will also see if I can locate the WEST area rules on limits too

Sadly, yes I am suggesting that they are a luxury  :( There is nothing like being on an express train journey when travelling long distance. There are still good limited stop services to enjoy with: London-Edinburgh first stop York, London-Glasgow first stop Warrington, London-WofE services next stop Exeter after Reading and of course from 2018 London-Bristol TM via Parkway.

apparently this place name sounds like quite a bad Swedish swearword so care is needed when saying it. 

But this was the one fast train per day on the WCML - most trains have five more stops and take 4:31, taking those out saves 23 minutes. But isn't it really a question of loadings?

If you can get enough passengers for a fast train, it's not really a "luxury"; they pay for it. If you can't, their better (quicker) train is being paid for by someone else and the label could be justified. On the other hand, if most passengers are going all the way, or are well enough served by your one stop mid-route, then the services with more stops are the luxury. But how much freedom there is to run less popular trains is a matter of loadings vs. capacity. There may have been more freedom to do that in the past, but I don't think the owners of the railways ever happily paid out to run empty trains around.

Given this was the only fast train, presumably it had a publicity value. Virgin will have to change their advertised journey time, won't they? And that - one train a day to give you bragging rights - certainly was common in the old days. I wonder why it's been changed, though. One factor is the idea that train services must be as regular as possible, and a one-off quickie doesn't fit that. That only came in for long-distance trains quite recently.

Yep, those were the rules I was aware of so I was surprised to discover PCV drivers are allowed an hour more before having a break. Thought that was more relevant to a passenger-carrying train though.

I can recall when a Train Planner in the 80s and secondmen were used, the maximum length of time a driver could drive single-manned was 3 hours.    We regularly had a Friday Relief frpm Paddington to the West of England and the running time to Exeter for a Class 47 loco vai the Berks and Hants and calling at Taunton was 3 hours and 2 minutes.  It was wised up eventually that if it didn't call at Taunton, it was 2 hours 58 minutes.    So, the obvious happened to avoid a secondman.

Non stop trains are a luxury when capacity is short. 

The capacity of a line is maximised when all the trains move at the same speed and have the same stopping patterns.  If there are differences in speed then gaps have to be left in the timetable so that trains can pass at places where this is possible. 

If you want more trains then something has to give.   

All I know if GWR drivers can have a maximum of 4 hours driving time then have a break as they can do a train from Plymouth via Bristol to Paddington, this is 3 hours 51.

Yes, that's correct for the HSS drivers, but as 'insider' said earlier, LTV (and West) are different.  Other companies will also have different rules.  It does surprise me a little that ASLEF never seem to mind about these differences much and aren't campaigning hard for a national standard. 

There are national rules (which came about from the Hidden report after the Clapham crash) governing maximum shift length (12 hours), maximum number of days consecutively worked (13 days), maximum number of hours in a week (72 hours), and minimum rest period between shifts (12 hours).

One of the longest non stop runs must be Virgin East Coast 0540 Edinburgh - London. Running from Newcastle to London non-stop for 2 hours 36 minutes.

Lowland Sleeper does anything from  3 to 5 hours between Watford Junction and driver change at either Warrington Bank Quay, Preston or Carlise.

All I know GWR drivers can only driver for a maximum of 4 hours!
One of the routes is Penzance via Bristol to Paddington! I think it's driver change at Plymouth! Am not 100% sure..

I remember an article in one of the comics, many moons ago in BR Cross Country days loco hauled Mark 2s etc., moaning that the Aberdeen Penzance train required so many drivers and they seemed to changed at every stop. Plus sa change.

Good job that we are not in France their provincial drivers don't seem to able to drive more than hour at a time!

As far as I am aware Penzance drivers (and crew) only go as far as Exeter. Plymouth and Exeter crews also cover Exeter and Plymouth to Penzance.  Plymouth, Exeter and Paddington crews cover Plymouth to Paddington via all routes.  This keeps all single runs to a maximum of about 3.75 hours.

An example is the driver and crew for the 0505 Penzance to Exeter St.Davids (arr 0751) who then work back the 0933 Exeter St.Davids to Penzance (arr 1237).

When I've got the train at Plymouth I have seen the do a driver change there as well, but they go and have on and change at Exeter as well :) 

Yes, it can all be a bit of a mish-mash depending on the service in question.  For example there are a few trains from Hereford to Paddington that are crewed all the way through by Bristol HSS or Oxford LTV depots (between 3 and 3h15m with lots of stops), whereas there are others that have a driver change at Worcester and Oxford en-route.  Just depends how the shifts fit in at that time of day.