Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Fare's Fair => Topic started by: bignosemac on March 18, 2016, 08:24:00 pm



Title: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on March 18, 2016, 08:24:00 pm
If you're approaching renewal time for any one year Railcards, or buying your first one, then now is the time to do so.

All National Railcards* currently have 20% off when purchased online through the official Railcard website. That brings the price down to ^24 for all Railcards, except the Disabled Persons' which is reduced to ^16.

http://www.railcard.co.uk/web/

It's good to see the Disabled Persons Railcard being included in a promotion and also good to note that it can be applied for entirely online now. No need to send proof of entitlement paperwork by post as was the case in the past. Now you can scan and upload your proof of entitlement paperwork with your online application. That's given me the impetus to re-apply for one. I've been entitled to one for some time but hadn't bothered.



* Railcards in the promotion:

  • 16-25 Railcard
  • Family & Friends Railcard
  • Senior Railcard
  • Two Together Railcard
  • Disabled Persons Railcard


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on March 27, 2016, 04:07:15 pm
I'm unable to decide whether to renew my 16-25 railcard now at the discount, or wait until the very last minute just before my 26th birthday (in June) at the full price.

I have two lots of travel before then, both reimbursable by my employer, so I don't really need the discount for these.  Several longer leisure distance trips planned, but all later in the summer.

Hmm, thinking the full price purchase in June will probably be the best option.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on April 04, 2016, 05:46:09 pm
I boought my mother her first one on hearing this.

I was dissuaded from buying one for myself in advance, then presented with one on my recent seminal birthday. I was glad to see that the discount applied to that also.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Sam290893 on April 05, 2016, 09:13:45 am
I prefer ordering the railcard on-line as your photo and everything is on one card unlike when you go to the station to buy it they give you the photo card and then the card with the expiry date on. Am 24 in August am tempted to buy a 3 year one two weeks before my birthday!   


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on April 05, 2016, 11:52:28 am
I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on April 05, 2016, 12:17:58 pm
I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....

You can. ^70. Online only. Can be purchased up to the day before your 24th birthday.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Rhydgaled on April 05, 2016, 01:05:49 pm
I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....
You can. ^70. Online only. Can be purchased up to the day before your 24th birthday.
Online only, but when I tried online purchase required a passport or driving license, so at the time I wasn't able to get one (my passport had expired, I think it has been re-issued now as we needed it for proof of ID for something else).

I'm unable to decide whether to renew my 16-25 railcard now at the discount, or wait until the very last minute just before my 26th birthday (in June) at the full price.
I'm in the same suituation. I'm waiting until June, hope the station don't complain that I'm renewing a few days before my current one expires (I've asked on here before and I seem to recall others said that is allowed).


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on April 05, 2016, 01:11:15 pm
You're not required to produce your current one, and the ticket office have no record of card purchases, so they won't actually know you have a current one....


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Sam290893 on April 06, 2016, 01:22:14 am
I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....

Yeah you can it's ^70 online and can be bought within a certain time frame before your 24th Birthday


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Alan Pettitt on April 06, 2016, 01:28:34 pm
Just a reminder that Devon residents can get 20% discount on Senior Railcards at any time.
https://www.journeydevon.info/save-money/on-the-train/senior-railcard-disabled-persons-railcard/ (https://www.journeydevon.info/save-money/on-the-train/senior-railcard-disabled-persons-railcard/)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on April 06, 2016, 02:36:29 pm
There's also a continuing 10% discount for online applications for one year 16-25, Two Together, Family and Senior Railcards.

Enter promo code: SEARCH10 when buying online.

Currently works, unsure of expiry date.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: WSW Frome on April 08, 2016, 08:34:40 pm
I think BNM's discount reference above works all/most of the time but only for the first online application by the respective individual.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on April 08, 2016, 09:45:03 pm
...or possibly the second with a different email address. ;)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on April 10, 2016, 10:00:17 pm

You can. ^70. Online only. Can be purchased up to the day before your 24th birthday.

Which information I passed to a young lady on the train I was chatting up talking to.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on May 19, 2016, 04:10:52 pm
On the subject of Railcards, anybody know why the time restriction on 2 for 1 railcard is now 9.30 rather than 10.00 ?

don't suppose this will be rolled out to other cards?

on a different subject, I was wondering about easements for railcards.

There is a train which leaves Grateley at 9.59 for Waterloo, and calls at Andover about 5 minutes later.
Railcards can be used from Andover , as departure is after 10.00, but it would make sense to allow them to be used from Grateley, as people will just be driving into Andover to make use of the railcard saving.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bobm on May 19, 2016, 06:00:34 pm
It has been 09:30 since the Two Together card was launched in March 2014.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on May 19, 2016, 06:09:08 pm
 
Thanks.
Just thought I heard a member of staff say it was now 9.30.

Wonder why it is a  different time, in any case.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: didcotdean on May 19, 2016, 06:16:19 pm
Might be a lot more streamlined if the limits placed on some railcard usage by time such as Two Together, Network etc were instead tied to off-peak tickets.

Not without its downside for people using anytime tickets from the likes of some London terminals etc in the evening peak, but eliminates the strange 'shoulder' in the morning where off-peak tickets are available but no railcard discount. Especially since the shoulder isn't the same size for each railcard.

Still probably just one of the many illogicalities that are too difficult to straighten out.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on May 19, 2016, 06:25:26 pm
Meant to be after first off-peak service. If you want that, the demand is such that discount is not needed to fill seats. Hence the 10am departure time, rather than it linked to destination arrival time


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: didcotdean on May 19, 2016, 06:59:00 pm
Yes - as I said it creates a shoulder price. If there aren't enough graduations in price already :)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: stuving on May 19, 2016, 07:49:28 pm
The 16-25 Railcard has a 10:00 general start time.
The Two Together Railcard has a 9:30 general start time.
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.
The Disabled Railcard has no time limits.
Plus each has a list of exceptions, varying in length.

Is that not simple enough?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on May 19, 2016, 07:53:25 pm
The 16-25 Railcard has a 10:00 general start time.
The Two Together Railcard has a 9:30 general start time.
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.
The Disabled Railcard has no time limits.
Plus each has a list of exceptions, varying in length.

Is that not simple enough?
But it gets even more complicated.

The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.  Customers can opt to pay a minimum fare of ^12.00 if this works out cheaper than the undiscounted ticket.  Plus it's valid on Advance tickets regardless of the time or price.  Not valid in 1st class, except for Advance tickets.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: stuving on May 19, 2016, 08:01:48 pm
The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.  Customers can opt to pay a minimum fare of ^12.00 if this works out cheaper than the undiscounted ticket.  Plus it's valid on Advance tickets regardless of the time or price.  Not valid in 1st class, except for Advance tickets.

That's not what the on-line words say. But either way, the exceptions are so wide that the 10:00 limit perhaps isn't really general after all. Unless the trains it applies to are the main ones you'd want to use it on. 


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on May 20, 2016, 09:22:52 am
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.

Huh? invalid during *peak* times surely


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: stuving on May 20, 2016, 09:37:31 am
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.

Huh? invalid during *peak* times surely
Of course. Glad to see someone's awake.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: paul7755 on May 20, 2016, 11:24:07 am
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.

Where 'home counties' means the Network Card area, which is rather larger; and peak times means the time before the off-peak fares become available on the route in question, which will vary by origin and destination, and cannot be shown as a simple time...

Paul


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on May 20, 2016, 11:23:04 pm
... unless you have a younger brother who is going out as the guest of an older boy ...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on June 11, 2016, 11:14:24 pm
so, can anybody explain to me the logic , if there is any, as to where easements on railcards are allowed?

The 9.59 Grately to Waterloo seems ( to me) to be a sensible one to allow. The lack of an Easement just means that card holders will  just ( if possible) make the short journey  into Andover, and use their railcard. Fares are the same from Andover and Grateley to Waterloo.
Perhaps the TOCs just want people to use Andover rather than Grateley, for some reason that escapes me.Or they think that folk will wait till the next Grateley train an hour later at 10.59?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on June 12, 2016, 05:51:35 am
so, can anybody explain to me the logic , if there is any, as to where easements on railcards are allowed?

In general, easements are allowed in circumstances that make it very much worthwhile the granter of the easement doing so.  Which means it brings them significant extra business  (commercial) / save them popularity / votes (political) by making the decision.   

Looking at commercial fare timing easements ...

The first thing the responsible TOC will look at is whether it will raise an objection from another TOC.  Slightly far fetched, but would an 09:59 start from Grateley to London tempt car drivers from the hinterland away from the 10:19 Pewsey to London, so would GWR object?   

Second thing - would the easement lead to a significant loss of revenue using the existing service at a higher price and dropping to the lower cost ticket if the easement was introduced? 

Thirdly, would it make longer distance fares with the easement undercut higher short distance fares?   For example, easements on the 08:49 Swindon to Westbury for fares beyond Chippenham cannot be offered due (I understand) to potential irregularities introduced to the local Swindon to Chippenham traffic.

Fourthly - there has to be a border time somewhere, and in order for a fare time easement to be granted, the grantor and consultees will need to be convinced that it's worthwhile moving the line.   So you're more likely to find grants being made on infrequent services (such as the train that runs through from Swindon to Exeter and beyond before the normal start of rover time) rather than on a service that runs every hour and just happens to fall the wrong side of the lip at Grateley - "has to happen somewhere / train stops every few minutes" ...

Not all easements are conventional (i.e. just a few minutes stretch) ... I note some very early rover ones from Exeter to Barnstaple which are a way of making the rovers more useful / selling more while boosting traffic on a train that would otherwise be pretty darned quiet; it's really runs 'out' to form an incoming train and if it can get a bit of revenue, why not?

Political decisions on easements are interesting - I'm thinking of local councils on ENCTS cards for the buses.  We see those decisions based on a multi-hour gap to the next service, making the 09:20 a great way into "Town" but the 11:50 being too late for pensioners who need to do their shopping and get home for lunch.   And with politics so much is about the timing of when you ask for the easement in the election cycle.  I suspect there are considerations within the franchise cycle to be looked at too ...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on June 12, 2016, 12:09:10 pm
But it gets even more complicated. The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.

Except there's no minimum fare at weekends, on bank holidays, or in July or August, or on a full moon (probably).

One of the best innovations ever tried on the privatised railway was in the early days of Central Trains, when rather than faffing with railcards, advances, super off-peaks, half savers, groupsaves, great escapes (contd. p74) they just Made The ----ing Fares Cheaper.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 12, 2016, 09:30:08 pm
But it gets even more complicated. The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.

Except there's no minimum fare at weekends, on bank holidays, or in July or August, or on a full moon (probably).

One of the best innovations ever tried on the privatised railway was in the early days of Central Trains, when rather than faffing with railcards, advances, super off-peaks, half savers, groupsaves, great escapes (contd. p74) they just Made The ----ing Fares Cheaper.
....One of the best comments I have ever read in the Forum!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 14, 2017, 05:13:35 pm
Just found out about this today !
TWO TOGETHER Railcard usually is £30:00 apply online and get £3:00 off
Details at Two together-railcard.co.uk / leaflet    Discount code leaflet3.
Thought it might be of some use.
Edit: this offer runs until May 20th 2017.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: old original on April 14, 2017, 08:09:37 pm
Thought this was the normal online price for any national railcard + £70 for three years...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on April 17, 2017, 10:10:39 am
Thought this was the normal online price for any national railcard + £70 for three years...


Indeed so. Please don't tell me of any offers, as I've just forked out £70 to renew my grandad card.

(BTW, I did it online last Wednesday afternoon. It arrived Thursday - impressive!)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bobm on April 17, 2017, 10:59:17 am
Be careful.  I know someone who ordered their card on a Monday, received it Tuesday and lost it by Wednesday!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on April 17, 2017, 09:42:37 pm
Indeed so. Please don't tell me of any offers, as I've just forked out £70 to renew my grandad card.

The various discount offers for Railcards are almost always for the one year variant. Those offers rarely undercut one third (£23.33) of the three year £70 price.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on April 17, 2017, 09:43:37 pm
Be careful.  I know someone who ordered their card on a Monday, received it Tuesday and lost it by Wednesday!

Was that me? Lost a few Railcards in my time.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bobm on April 17, 2017, 10:38:44 pm
Actually it wasn't but now you mention it....  ;D


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on April 18, 2017, 10:17:00 pm
My two together card cost me ten pounds and my other railcard is valid from 0930 onwards (it used to be 10am) what railcard is it.... for bonus points guess how many swear words were directed at me in my old job for not selling the unofficial 0959 easement from grateley


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on April 22, 2017, 10:55:48 pm
My two together card cost me ten pounds and my other railcard is valid from 0930 onwards (it used to be 10am) what railcard is it.... for bonus points guess how many swear words were directed at me in my old job for not selling the unofficial 0959 easement from grateley

Eh? What unofficial easement ?

In a rare moment of bothering to try to get something done about anything, I asked SWT to consider this easement, which has the benefit of total logic on its side. They waited a couple of months,  apologised for making me wait, and then said they had no intention at all of introducing such a  thing.
So can you buy a ticket from Andover and use it from Grately, ( unofficially), or what is the deal ?

It's a bit less of an issue ( for me ) now that parking is actually possible at Andover, , and usually impossible at Grateley, but that isn't really the point.......


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on April 28, 2017, 12:46:59 pm
Unofficial in that it is not an valid easement at all ..unofficial in that some staff did it anyway to avoid the abuse which lead to more abuse for the staff who followed the rules,the train is at 0959 the railcard is valid after 10am so by selling a ticket for the 0959 discounted with the network card is not valid and by boarding train with said ticket said person would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be subject to a penalty fare

i'm not really sure why you took what i wrote and that lead you to believe that you could board at grately  with an andover ticket ... so without a valid ticket... struggling with your logic on that one i'm afraid!

As a railcard holder you really should be aware of the terms and conditions and its validity (you signed to say that you were)  below is a full list of legitimate valid easements for your railcard along with the t&c's for said product

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: TM on April 28, 2017, 01:46:58 pm
Unofficial in that it is not an valid easement at all ..unofficial in that some staff did it anyway to avoid the abuse which lead to more abuse for the staff who followed the rules,the train is at 0959 the railcard is valid after 10am so by selling a ticket for the 0959 discounted with the network card is not valid and by boarding train with said ticket said person would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be subject to a penalty fare

i'm not really sure why you took what i wrote and that lead you to believe that you could board at grately  with an andover ticket ... so without a valid ticket... struggling with your logic on that one i'm afraid!

As a railcard holder you really should be aware of the terms and conditions and its validity (you signed to say that you were)  below is a full list of legitimate valid easements for your railcard along with the t&c's for said product

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/


Some years ago the T&C of the Network card were changed from not being valid on trains SCHEDULED to depart before 10 o'clock to not being valid on trains departing before 10 o'clock.  This means that the Network card is valid on any train that departs at 10 o'clock and later.  If the 0959 departs 1 minute late then your Network railcard ticket would be valid.

Quote

Network Railcard discounts are not valid on tickets for travel before 10.00hrs, Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays). This time restriction applies to all types of tickets.

Above is quoted from the Network Railcard T&C. 


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on April 28, 2017, 01:54:37 pm
That is 100% correct :-) ... i did start typing that however felt it was best not to complicate things ... however in this case unless you arrive to purchase your ticket and know the train is delayed (in which case you would be well within your rights to purchase onboard as the tvm will not sell before 10am)if you already have your tickets when you find out that the train is late then the only thing you can do with this information is apply for a refund of the difference if the train departs after 10am


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on April 30, 2017, 09:22:07 pm
Unofficial in that it is not an valid easement at all ..unofficial in that some staff did it anyway to avoid the abuse which lead to more abuse for the staff who followed the rules,the train is at 0959 the railcard is valid after 10am so by selling a ticket for the 0959 discounted with the network card is not valid and by boarding train with said ticket said person would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be subject to a penalty fare

i'm not really sure why you took what i wrote and that lead you to believe that you could board at grately  with an andover ticket ... so without a valid ticket... struggling with your logic on that one i'm afraid!

As a railcard holder you really should be aware of the terms and conditions and its validity (you signed to say that you were)  below is a full list of legitimate valid easements for your railcard along with the t&c's for said product

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/


i just wondered what you meant by "Unofficial Easement, "is all.
I don't know why you think I am unaware of the T and Cs of a Network Railcard, as I thought my post made clear that I was aware that the 9.59 is outside the terms of the card's discount.
If there is any logic I was looking for, it is just that fares from Grateley and Andover to London, are identical, I think.
Easy to misunderstand on these forums though.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: teamsaint on June 26, 2017, 03:44:08 pm
Checking a couple of fares just now, it looks as though an easement may have been allowed on the 09.59 from Grateley to Waterloo.
( That's if you can find a car parking space of course)



Edit: Ignore this, I was looking at fares on a 2 together, which allow railcard from 9.30.

Still don't understand why two together should have a preferential starting time to  Network Railcard, but there you go......


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on June 26, 2017, 05:51:37 pm
I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).



Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: paul7755 on June 26, 2017, 06:09:16 pm
I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).


Perhaps no-one updated it when the service first went hourly?   Maybe an an error rather than a conspiracy...

Paul


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: PhilWakely on June 26, 2017, 06:17:42 pm
I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).


Perhaps no-one updated it when the service first went hourly?   Maybe an an error rather than a conspiracy...

Paul

I remember using my Network Railcard for regular PIN-SAL returns using the 0832 for a few years, but notice that none of the online ticket sellers currently offer it (including swtrains.co.uk) until the 0935


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 26, 2017, 08:06:04 pm
I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).



I'm led to believe D&C railcard can also be used on the 0823 from Exeter st davids to Axminster.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: old original on June 27, 2017, 03:45:20 pm
I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).



I'm led to believe D&C railcard can also be used on the 0823 from Exeter st davids to Axminster.

Bear in mind that there isn't a time restriction on the D&C railcard, it's a case of where there is a valid off peak ticket then the D&C can be used.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on June 29, 2017, 05:13:30 pm
From later this summer it will be possible to get digital versions of National Railcards (and Network Railcards) stored on iOS and Android devices. You order online then store on an app on your device(s). Physical hard copy railcards will remain available.

The option on purchase will be either/or. You won't be able to have both the digital version and a hard copy. You will though be permitted to store your digital railcard on up to two devices. Railcards that don't currently require photographs will require them for the digital version. Digital railcards will be available for new purchases and renewals. You will not be able to convert an existing hard copy railcard.

The rollout begins with the Network and 16-25 Railcards in July. Followed by Family and Two Together in late Summer. Finally Disabled and Senior in early Autumn.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on June 29, 2017, 10:00:03 pm
No one generally carries two phones, maybe one & a tablet, which one again generally doesn't carry all the time.

This lose your phone & you'll be inconvenienced by having to carry the tablet on journeys until renewal. Personally, hard copy railcard is replaceable for £10, that strikes me as likely more convenient over time, unless loss is nearly at end of validity


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 29, 2017, 10:06:23 pm
No one generally carries two phones, maybe one & a tablet, which one again generally doesn't carry all the time.

This lose your phone & you'll be inconvenienced by having to carry the tablet on journeys until renewal. Personally, hard copy railcard is replaceable for £10, that strikes me as likely more convenient over time, unless loss is nearly at end of validity
The two devices allow for a mid year change of contract handset for example. My phone contract won't expire at the same time as my railcard.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on June 29, 2017, 10:26:10 pm
Only if you don't have to diwnload to two devices at time of purchase....


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Surrey 455 on June 29, 2017, 10:55:31 pm
I guess it comes down to convenience. I have in the past downloaded my boarding passes to my easyjet and Norwegian apps but I've gone back to printing them on paper. Its hassle getting my phone out, unlocking it, selecting the app then selecting the boarding pass to show, then having to move your finger on the screen to keep it active until staff are ready to see it. Oh and if you've got two peoples boarding passes, you've then got to swipe to the next pass then pass the phone to the other person so they can get through the barrier. Now I just get my A4 boarding pass out of my bag and put it away when I'm finished.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on June 29, 2017, 11:20:56 pm
Only if you don't have to diwnload to two devices at time of purchase....

The retail brief I've seen says you will be able to download to a maximum of two devices. That suggests it's up to you whether to use one or two.

I suspect the 'two devices' will just mean at any one time. You can download to one device, then a second at another time if you so wish. Then, if you change devices, the app device manager will allow you to delete a device no longer used and add another. It's possible that,  with a 3 year Railcard, you will have more than two devices over that period.

My banking app limits registration to four devices. If I try to register a fifth I have to delete an old one first.

With this Railcard app I strongly suspect you will be able to delete and add and not be limited to two devices registered at time of purchase. In fact the staff retail brief mentions that device management will be maintained online.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on June 30, 2017, 05:20:29 am
I certainly would hope thats the way it'll work


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 30, 2017, 06:41:41 am
No one generally carries two phones, maybe one & a tablet, which one again generally doesn't carry all the time.

This lose your phone & you'll be inconvenienced by having to carry the tablet on journeys until renewal. Personally, hard copy railcard is replaceable for £10, that strikes me as likely more convenient over time, unless loss is nearly at end of validity

Many people carry two phones - one for work & one personal.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 30, 2017, 07:43:46 am
I carry two when at work.  Regardless though it's nice to have a choice and, like Surrey 455, choose the system you find most convenient.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 17, 2017, 10:11:42 pm
Information from another forum suggests a 26-30 Railcard is to be trialled in the Greater Anglia area in 2018. The trial will be limited to certain postcodes, a similar set up to the Two Together Railcard before that became available nationally.

This will also likely be a digital only Railcard.

Rail Delivery Group have already registered a domain.

https://www.whois.com/whois/26-30railcard.co.uk

Also, ATOC Limited (trading as Rail Delivery Group) have registered domains suggesting a 55+ plus Railcard may be in the pipeline.

And perhaps most interesting of all is the registration of domains suggesting a Rail Ombudsman may be coming...

http://viewdns.info/reversewhois/?q=Atoc+limited


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on September 17, 2017, 11:58:04 pm
And perhaps most interesting of all is the registration of domains suggesting a Rail Ombudsman may be coming...

http://viewdns.info/reversewhois/?q=Atoc+limited

Quote
ombudsmanrail.com
ombudsmanrail.org

But ATOC is the Association of Train Operating Companies.  Surely they can't be their own Ombudsman can they?  Isn't an Ombudsman supposed to be independent??


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 18, 2017, 12:35:40 am
It is the train companies, through the Rail Delivery Group, who have committed to introducing the ombudsman. So I guess it makes sense for them to register the domains.

 https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2017/469773062-2017-08-04.html



Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 18, 2017, 11:57:24 pm
Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

Quote
26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30Railcard.

For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 19, 2017, 07:25:42 am
Good news.  If rolled out nationally will they just rename the 16-25 Railcard the 16-30 Railcard to keep it simple?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: John R on September 19, 2017, 07:40:22 am
When, if at any point, does such a product start falling foul of age discrimination I wonder?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on September 19, 2017, 08:54:07 am
Good news.  If rolled out nationally will they just rename the 16-25 Railcard the 16-30 Railcard to keep it simple?

Perhaps it's too radical, but how about a 16 to 59 railcard - or a 16 to 54 if the Senior were to be switched back to 55?

Could even do different prices and discount levels - Sapphire, Ruby and Diamond cards (though I'm not sure which of those is the most precious gemstone so what order they would come in!)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on September 19, 2017, 09:31:54 am
A reminder that the discount using a Senior Railcard when booking single standard class tickets through GWR is 50% if booked before 29 September. You will also get 250 bonus Nectar points for each booking. Mrs FT, N! is even foregoing her usual first class travel to EXD to take advantage, as it makes standard class travel actually cheaper than her preferred seat for once, and she is a Nectar points addict.

Other TOCs are available.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 19, 2017, 10:38:06 am
When, if at any point, does such a product start falling foul of age discrimination I wonder?

Businesses are free to offer age related discounts and concessions. These do not fall foul of any current legislation.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 10:50:22 am
If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

Quote
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed)

I didn't think there is a restriction in the summer months of July/August is there - what is it?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: TeaStew on September 19, 2017, 11:49:11 am
If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

Quote
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed)

I didn't think there is a restriction in the summer months of July/August is there - what is it?

I was wondering about this wording too. The only way I can get my head around it is they mean that on the 16-25 the minimum fare is restricted in July/August (not applied) - it wont be restricted on the 26-30 (it will be applied). Crystal clear mud.

Also means that while this railcard is similar to others there are now a lot of variations when it comes to July/August minimum fares - no minimum fare on 16-25, minimum fare on 26-30, no minimum fare on HM Forces but cannot be used if going to work... Not really major issues but I wonder why this situation has arisen?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 11:52:33 am
If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

Quote
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed)

I didn't think there is a restriction in the summer months of July/August is there - what is it?

I was wondering about this wording too. The only way I can get my head around it is they mean that on the 16-25 the minimum fare is restricted in July/August (not applied) - it wont be restricted on the 26-30 (it will be applied). Crystal clear mud.

Yes, it could well be read that way. Well, that info was for staff, not punters - their marketing will soon be out for it....


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on September 19, 2017, 12:24:24 pm
If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

It becomes a loyalty card.    If I pay (say) £50 a year I get 34% off off-peak, special fares, rangers and rovers. If I pay £100 a year, I get 40% off, if I pay £200 a year, I get half price and the card extends to a friend travelling with me too.   Figures and benefits need to be tuned.

Once someone takes the plunge buys a higher tier card , it really encourages them to use the train rather than their car as their per-journey cost is cut.  Even those entitled to other rail cards might plump for the higher levels of this one (make it a 16 to 100 card!) and switch more of their travel to rail spending (in the end) more than they do at the moment, but for much more off peak travel.

Rough edges and unintended consequences need looking at ... this is mega-playing with fares!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on September 19, 2017, 12:32:23 pm
It becomes a loyalty card.    If I pay (say) £50 a year I get 34% off off-peak, special fares, rangers and rovers. If I pay £100 a year, I get 40% off, if I pay £200 a year, I get half price and the card extends to a friend travelling with me too.   Figures and benefits need to be tuned.

Once someone takes the plunge buys a higher tier card , it really encourages them to use the train rather than their car as their per-journey cost is cut.  Even those entitled to other rail cards might plump for the higher levels of this one (make it a 16 to 100 card!) and switch more of their travel to rail spending (in the end) more than they do at the moment, but for much more off peak travel.

Rough edges and unintended consequences need looking at ... this is mega-playing with fares!

I bought a National Express coach card which I have used on one occasion only (Bristol to Heathrow and return)  and will probably not use again. It saved more money than it cost, and rail travel was unfortunately not a realistic option at the time of day concerned.

I bought my first rail card (family) for exactly the same reason when taking my then little children to visit a sister in Norfolk. I then used it for several days out that would probably have been done by car (or not at all) but for that purchase.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 19, 2017, 12:44:03 pm
If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

Quote
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed)

I didn't think there is a restriction in the summer months of July/August is there - what is it?

I was wondering about this wording too. The only way I can get my head around it is they mean that on the 16-25 the minimum fare is restricted in July/August (not applied) - it wont be restricted on the 26-30 (it will be applied). Crystal clear mud.

I think the word 'easement' should have been used. The 26-30 Railcard will, I believe, have the £12 (currently) minimum fare before 1000 Mon-Fri all year round. The 16-25 keeps the July/August easement where there is no minimum fare. 

I hear rumours that the minimum fare for both the 16-25 and 26-30 is going to be £15 from January 2018. Can't quote a source, I've been  asked not to!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 01:16:43 pm
Nice way of easing the youngsters into commuting - let's give 'em money off their commute!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 19, 2017, 01:32:29 pm
Nice way of easing the youngsters into commuting - let's give 'em money off their commute!

If said commute (involving a pre-1000 start) costs more than £12 (potentially £15) a day. And to get the full 34% discount the daily fare would have to be £18 (£22.60).

Season tickets would still be better value in most cases where commuting requires a pre-1000 journey.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 01:34:58 pm
Debate that in suburban London on rail-only commutes.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: WelshBluebird on September 19, 2017, 01:35:48 pm
I think this should have no problem generating money. Especially from people who had a 16-25 railcard, used rail a lot, got too old for the railcard and then stopped using rail as much because of the price increase and looked to alternatives like coaches etc. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I have started to use the coach instead of rail now I no longer have a railcard because the price difference is so much more (£38 return Bath to London on the train with the railcard is just about acceptable compared to on average £20 return by coach because of the faster and more comfortable journey, but £57 return is just too much in comparison) a railcard that I could have would certainly entice me back to rail.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 19, 2017, 02:03:57 pm
Debate that in suburban London on rail-only commutes.

In very few cases, outside Zones 1-6, there may be some 16-25 and 26-30 discounted fares that are cheaper than a 7 Day Season for a Mon-Fri commute. However, 5x Anytime Day Returns are far less flexible than a 7 Day Season, which offers unlimited journeys.

Move up to a Monthly or longer Season Ticket and I'm fairly confident that neither of these Railcards will offer better value for a pre-1000 commute.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on September 19, 2017, 02:08:06 pm
I think this should have no problem generating money. Especially from people who had a 16-25 railcard, used rail a lot, got too old for the railcard and then stopped using rail as much because of the price increase and looked to alternatives like coaches etc. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I have started to use the coach instead of rail now I no longer have a railcard because the price difference is so much more (£38 return Bath to London on the train with the railcard is just about acceptable compared to on average £20 return by coach because of the faster and more comfortable journey, but £57 return is just too much in comparison) a railcard that I could have would certainly entice me back to rail.

And that, I suspect, is just the sort of positive revenue implication that the Rail Delivery Group are hoping to achieve. Additional revenue rather than abstraction of existing revenue.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: WSW Frome on September 20, 2017, 11:42:40 am
We do love complexity in the UK. In The Netherlands they have had a general railcard for years and available to all. Assuming nothing much has changed recently, the annual cost will now be around EUR50 and offers a 40% discount on 1st or 2nd class fares, with some discount extensions into cross-border services. The only real restriction is not being valid in the morning peak, Mo-Fr.

Having said that the fare structure is much simpler, and largely set up on single tickets - distance based. So this might be an argument for offering a simple discount structure with a loyalty card element.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 20, 2017, 04:59:31 pm
Perhaps it's too radical, but how about a 16 to 59 railcard - or a 16 to 54 if the Senior were to be switched back to 55?

Could even do different prices and discount levels - Sapphire, Ruby and Diamond cards (though I'm not sure which of those is the most precious gemstone so what order they would come in!)
I like the idea of named cards; shame there's already a 'Gold card' (which is something else I beleive) or you could have Bronze, Silver and Gold railcards. For the purpose of this post, I will replace Gold with Diamond for that reason. Rather than increasing the discount rate though, I'd suggest something like this (exact pricing open for debate):

Bronze Railcard
  • Minimum Fare: £12 for travel Mon-Fri BHX
  • Not valid before 09:30 Mon-Fri BHX, except when purchasing rover/ranger tickets that would be valid
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder only
  • Pricing:
    • £15 for the disabled
    • £25 for seniors
    • £30 for other concessions (under 26 and students)
    • £55 for everyone else

Silver Railcard
  • Not valid for use in the Network South East (NSE) area around London before 09:30 Mon-Fri BHX, except when purchasing rover/ranger tickets that would be valid
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder only
  • Pricing:
    • £15 for the disabled
    • £30 for seniors
    • £65 for everyone else

Diamond Railcard
  • No time restrictions
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for the holder, plus a 34% discount for a single adult companion or two child fares (passengers must travel with the holder at all times)
  • Pricing:
    • £20 for the disabled
    • £85 for everyone else

Diamond++ Card
  • No time restrictions
  • Valid only when travelling with a passenger who holds a Diamond railcard
  • 34% discount on ALL ticket purchases (including rovers and rangers) for one adult companion or two child fares
  • Price: £15 per card (maximum of 9 passengers (including the Diamond railcard holder) per diamond railcard)

  • That last one is an attempt to recreate the Family and Friends railcard by making it an add-on to the disabled railcard (which I have effectively renamed as the Diamond railcard) in an effort to simplify the range of railcards available but it might be better to keep the Family and Friends one instead. Alternatively the '++' card could be an add-on to any of the other railcard products, and hence provide a 'two-together'-like product (with the differences being that you can make it three-together by taking kids instead of an adult compainion  and that only the main railcard holder would be named (and probably photocarded to prevent railcard sharing) instead of all travellers).


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on October 19, 2017, 06:19:52 pm
There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on October 19, 2017, 08:34:42 pm
There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.

Err... Reply #59 of this thread, et seq. More than just speculation.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on October 19, 2017, 08:49:22 pm
There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.

Err... Reply #59 of this thread, et seq. More than just speculation.
Oops  :-X  Only just saw the news story today.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on October 21, 2017, 01:42:38 pm
The BBC have picked up on the story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41679096

A little late to the party. The briefing documents were on RailUK Forums over a month ago.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ChrisB on October 23, 2017, 04:11:19 pm
Simon Calder had this in the I this weekend

Quote
A new railcard is set to transform British travel for millions of millennials, offering one-third off many rail journeys. On an off-peak return from Manchester to London normally costing £83.90, the saving will be £28.50 - saving almost the cost of the card on one journey.

The 26-30 discount card is expected to become available nationwide early next year, cutting train fares by one-third for people born between 1988 and 1992 who choose to sign up.

A trial in the Greater Anglia area will begin in December this year, with 10,000 railcards on offer to eligible people living in the area. Another 10,000 cards will be issued nationwide in the New Year.

'Millennial railcard' set to launch for 26-30 year olds

News of the initiative emerged last month on a rail forum, discussing a leaked internal document from the Rail Delivery Group.

A spokesman for the group, which represents train operators and Network Rail, told The Independent: “We can’t comment on this at the moment, but we are always carrying out research and working with the train companies to develop new offers that make leisure travel easier, and better value for money.”

However, based on experience and industry contacts, it is possible to draw some conclusions about how the discount scheme will work.

Q What railcards are available at present?

The main widely available national cards are 16-25 for young people; Family & Friends for adults and children travelling in a group (at least one of each); Two Together for two named (and photographed) individuals making the same journey; and Senior for travellers aged 60 or over.

They are supplemented with limited eligibility cards such as the Disabled Person's Railcard, the Gold Card for annual season ticket holders and the HM Forces Railcard, as well as numerous cards for specific areas, from South-East England (Network Card) to the Esk Valley Railcard.

For the average adult aged 26-59, though, there is no straightforward way to secure a discount on rail fares.

Q What is proposed, and what will it offer?

A new 26-30 Railcard, extending most of the benefits of the 16-25 scheme to an older age group.

The basic deal is a saving of 34 per cent on many rail tickets. The main restriction is aimed at excluding the card’s use for most commuter journeys in the morning rush hour. While discounts are available on Advance fares without time limits, Anytime and Off Peak tickets are subject to a minimum fare of £12 from Monday to Friday (except public holidays).

For 16-25 Railcards that restriction is lifted in July and August, the idea being to encourage students and young people to travel more by train at a time of year when rush-hour trains are less crowded. But train operators are insisting the minimum fare applies year-round for the 26-30 card, because most of the people signing up for it will be in full-time work.

It is possible the minimum fare will rise to £15 for the 26-30 Railcard.

Q Why are cards being issued only in one region initially, and in such low numbers?

The Greater Anglia train operator is trialling the railcard from December, but to start with only 10,000 will be on offer. Though the card is available only in East Anglia, it will be valid for travel nationwide.

Demand is likely to be strong from travellers in Suffolk and Norfolk, who are currently outside the Network Card area; and from passengers from outside the region who work around the geographical limits to benefit from cheaper fares. Demand for the tranche of 10,000 railcards to be released nationwide early in 2018 will be even more intense.

The train operators are concerned about the risk of an unexpectedly strong uptake among commuters and business travellers. By capping the number of cards sold and restricting the availability, they can limit the possible drop in revenue. In addition, there could be a surge in 26-30 year olds moving to rail for commuting because of the card, adding to overcrowding on peak trains.

Q Will it be an actual card?

Not initially. The first versions will be available on smartphone only via the Railcard app on Apple IOS or Android. Train operators are increasingly offering mobile ticketing, and it makes sense for the card and the ticket to be held in the same smartphone ticket wallet. But train operators are concerned about everything from a higher-than-expected incidence of flat batteries and lost phones to opportunities for fraud.

Once the rail industry assesses whether a virtual railcard is feasible, a decision will be taken on whether to offer physical cards instead or as well. There will also be pressure to make the card as inclusive as possible, by ensuring it can be bought at rail stations

Q What proof will I need of my age?

Your passport or driving licence. If you have neither, you will need to supply a birth certificate and additional evidence.

Q How much will it cost?

Probably £30, the same as most other national railcards. Unlike the other major railcards, though, there will be no three-year option – at least initially.

Q I’m nearly 30 – will I have to wait until I am 60 before I qualify for a railcard?

Not necessarily. It is likely that the scheme is likely to emulate the current option for 25-year-olds: buy a railcard the day before your 26th birthday and you can continue to use it for another 12 months. So someone who turns 31 on 1 July 2018 will be able to buy a card on 30 June and use it until 29 June the following year.

In addition, a 55-plus card is believed to be under discussion, with many of the benefits of the Senior Railcard.

Q Why has the 31 to 59 age range been excluded from cheap tickets?

Many of them already use Family & Friends or Two Together railcards. (The train operators really like these, because they are rarely used for work-related trips.) But the 26-30 card is seen as a trial for a wider National Railcard scheme along the lines of the existing Bahncard scheme in Germany, where discounts are given to holders of any age in a bid to lure people off the autobahn and on to Deutsche Bahn.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 08, 2017, 10:29:30 pm
Looking for something else I've just noticed that the Railcard app is now available for Android devices. I presume the same is true for the Sheeple err, iPhone users.

Most digital national Railcards are available instantly, provided photos are uploaded and age proof is provided where needed.

The 16-25 for mature students, and the Disabled Persons digital Railcards require additional proof that needs checking. These therefore take a little longer to process.

When purchasing, the app will direct you to a website through your browser. Here is where you provide details and select either 'Post' or 'Digital'.

Head to your nearest app store to find out more.  ;)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 08, 2017, 10:44:57 pm
Head to your nearest app store to find out more.  ;)

I'm on my way!!!

(Er, where is it?)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 21, 2017, 01:46:19 am
The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand. The DfT may well be forcing it on the TOCs but I think it highly unlikely that Govt. are offering any funding. Instead it seems to be nothing other than a craven attempt at currying favour with a certain electoral demographic by pretending to be benevolent. The reality being, I suspect, zero pounds from Govt. with costs absorbed by TOCs.

Hopefully Mr Hammond will prove me wrong and is offering funding. But then, why not be really bold and fund a National Railcard?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42052750


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Tim on November 21, 2017, 10:24:12 am
The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand. The DfT may well be forcing it on the TOCs but I think it highly unlikely that Govt. are offering any funding. Instead it seems to be nothing other than a craven attempt at currying favour with a certain electoral demographic by pretending to be benevolent. The reality being, I suspect, zero pounds from Govt. with costs absorbed by TOCs.

Hopefully Mr Hammond will prove me wrong and is offering funding. But then, why not be really bold and fund a National Railcard?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42052750

quite agree.  Whilst I support anything that lowers train fares for people, a third off train fares hardly compensates millennials for not being able to buy a house and it is high level issues like that that the Treasury should be focusing on  I expect that the ToCs have been asked to come up with something and figured that this initiative would be largely cost neutral and so pitched it to the Government who then pinched it. 

There is a lovely irony here.  Did the Conservatives not privatise the railway in order to free it from political interference? 


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 22, 2017, 04:57:09 pm
The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

And so it was!

Quote
Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand.

Having watched him announce it, I struggle too. If the Government had anything to do with it, surely DfT are the ones to do it? As BNM said earlier, it doesn't cost the Chancellor anything directly, and he made no announcement of funding. So it looks like nothing more than a bit of a good news story.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 22, 2017, 05:38:29 pm
Just to clarify. It will be a separate 26-30 Railcard, due to slightly different T&Cs.

National rollout due sometime in Spring 2018.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 22, 2017, 06:35:17 pm
This could pave the way for a cut in benefit rates for the under-30s in the next budget.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 22, 2017, 07:08:51 pm
This could pave the way for a cut in benefit rates for the under-30s in the next budget.

A cut in benefits because of this Railcard?

Jobseekers, and ESA claimants in the Work Focused Activity group can already get a free Railcard which gives them 50% off Standard Class fares.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 22, 2017, 08:08:35 pm
Jobseekers, and ESA claimants in the Work Focused Activity group can already get a free Railcard which gives them 50% off Standard Class fares.

I retired too early...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bobm on November 22, 2017, 08:49:28 pm
Perhaps that’s why, I understand, they struggle to find the paperwork for those who wish to get the railcard they are entitled to.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 22, 2017, 09:42:32 pm
Perhaps that’s why, I understand, they struggle to find the paperwork for those who wish to get the railcard they are entitled to.

As with all things, some are good, others less so. I was always good with expense payments when appropriate, both for claimants and for me.

It can get worse.

I was once at a meeting of Jobcentre managers, feeling rather like it was all nothing to do with me, and that I was getting bored purely as a courtesy. Then one mentioned a training course that would help a lot of her customers, if only it wasn't somewhere they could never get to by public transport from Easton. I woke up, and asked where it was - it was next to Bristol Parkway. So why don't they get the train, I asked, to be laughed at by all of them, for thinking that their customers would want to walk to Temple Meads. I persisted - what's wrong with getting a train from Stapleton Road? That had them laughing even more, before asking where the nearest station was. Well, I said patiently, you know that sort of bridgey-type thing right outside Easton Jobcentre - you know, the one with a sign saying "Stapleton Road station"? There was sudden silence while they all, especially the now former manager, considered what the regional manager, chairing the meeting, would think of this lack of local knowledge...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 22, 2017, 11:13:19 pm
Perhaps that’s why, I understand, they struggle to find the paperwork for those who wish to get the railcard they are entitled to.

You remember my tale of woe don't you?  :D

I found the DWP Jobseekers Railcard (official snappy name: Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount Card) issuing guidance for staff online. Then walked my Personal Advisor through the process to issue me one. Explaining to him that I met the eligibility criteria. No one in my allocated Jobcentre had a clue how to issue one. This despite them having the necessary Railcard stock and issuing forms.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 23, 2017, 12:56:04 am
Just to clarify. It will be a separate 26-30 Railcard, due to slightly different T&Cs.

Of course it would be too difficult to have the same T&Cs, wouldn't it!  Barry Doe, in one of his rare deviations from just rotating through his favourite list of bugbears, talks about the confusing differences for existing railcards in the latest RAIL magazine.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 23, 2017, 08:36:20 am
I guess it is one small  recognition of how unaffordable rail travel has become for large swathes of people, however why that has to be limited to under 30s I really don't know.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: chrisr_75 on November 23, 2017, 08:55:14 am
I guess it is one small  recognition of how unaffordable rail travel has become for large swathes of people, however why that has to be limited to under 30s I really don't know.

We're not the only place though. In Switzerland virtually no one, bar the occasional tourist, pays full prices for public transport as I believe there is a national travel discount card scheme (for purchase, but the savings far outweigh the outlay) available to all.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on November 23, 2017, 12:12:31 pm
We're not the only place though. In Switzerland virtually no one, bar the occasional tourist, pays full prices for public transport as I believe there is a national travel discount card scheme (for purchase, but the savings far outweigh the outlay) available to all.

Of course, in Britain tourist can get special Britrail prices so that pay fares that are often so low they would make you weep!


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Timmer on November 23, 2017, 03:17:19 pm
Of course, in Britain tourist can get special Britrail prices so that pay fares that are often so low they would make you weep!
Don't get me started on that one when you compare it to the cost of All Line Rovers!  >:(


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Tim on November 23, 2017, 05:10:08 pm
This could pave the way for a cut in benefit rates for the under-30s in the next budget.

I don't think that the railcard is aimed at under 30s on benefits.  It is supposed to be to help the much larger number of under 30s who are in work but still struggling (although presumably the peak restrictions will make it difficult to use for commuting)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Class 50 on November 23, 2017, 05:23:18 pm
If this scheme is revenue neutral and boosts rail use, that’s good for the environment and the economy.

It should be rolled out for everyone.
I seem to think Railfuture had a National railcard Campaign , but this wa dropped as it was not revenue neutral , let’s start it again , I want a discount ..


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: grahame on November 23, 2017, 05:32:48 pm
If this scheme is revenue neutral and boosts rail use, that’s good for the environment and the economy.

It should be rolled out for everyone.
I seem to think Railfuture had a National railcard Campaign , but this wa dropped as it was not revenue neutral , let’s start it again , I want a discount ..

I've not seen the maths, or any consultant's briefs or assumptions about a railcard to cover the dwindling gap between the younger and older railcards, but I suspect they could be designed to be revenue neutral or indeed to bring in more revenue. Problem is they would also bring in overcrowding, so make services more costly to provide.   You're not just looking at revenue - you have to consider both sides of the balance sheet.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 23, 2017, 05:45:13 pm
Something on Radio 4 earlier today leads me to think that this card will not be subject to the Peak Time restrictions of other railcards???.
Wish I could add more but the washing machine was going at the time !...


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Pb_devon on November 23, 2017, 07:49:23 pm
In Switzerland virtually no one, bar the occasional tourist, pays full prices for public transport as I believe there is a national travel discount card scheme (for purchase, but the savings far outweigh the outlay) available to all.
For the record the annual Swiss GA [General Abonnemont] (which includes unlimited travel on all transport modes) is currently (with an exchange rate of CHF 1.25):
Adults £3088
16-25: £2120
Senior : £2304
Dogs (yes, really!): £628

Unsurprisingly 5% of the population has one.  Furthermore about half of the population have the half-fare card.

This shows what can be done with an integrated transport system (I have to declare an interest here; I am one-quarter Swiss  ;) )


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 24, 2017, 12:08:37 am
Something on Radio 4 earlier today leads me to think that this card will not be subject to the Peak Time restrictions of other railcards???.
Wish I could add more but the washing machine was going at the time !...

The current 16-25 Railcard doesn't have a time restriction as such. Just a minimum fare of £12 before 10am. If your journey is before 10am and costs £12.05-£17.95 it will be discounted to £12. If the fare is £18 or more then it's discounted by 34%.

The 26-30 Railcard trial has the same conditions.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: PhilWakely on November 24, 2017, 07:43:09 pm
Something on Radio 4 earlier today leads me to think that this card will not be subject to the Peak Time restrictions of other railcards???.
Wish I could add more but the washing machine was going at the time !...

The current 16-25 Railcard doesn't have a time restriction as such. Just a minimum fare of £12 before 10am. If your journey is before 10am and costs £12.05-£17.95 it will be discounted to £12. If the fare is £18 or more then it's discounted by 34%.

The 26-30 Railcard trial has the same conditions
.

There is a very subtle difference between the 16-25 and 26-30 railcards with respect to the £12 minimum fare. The minimum fare is not applicable during July and August for the 16-25 railcard, but will remain in force all year round for the 26-30 railcard



Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 24, 2017, 08:17:29 pm
Will a 3-year 26-30 railcard bought the day before the 30th birthday be valid for 3 years still?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: PhilWakely on November 24, 2017, 08:22:22 pm
Will a 3-year 26-30 railcard bought the day before the 30th birthday be valid for 3 years still?

There will not be a 3-year version of the 26-30 railcard. However, just as the 16-25 railcard for 25 year olds, a 26-30 railcard purchased just one day before their 31st birthday will be valid for 12 months.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on November 24, 2017, 08:24:46 pm
Will a 3-year 26-30 railcard bought the day before the 30th birthday be valid for 3 years still?
In the case of the 16-25 railcard, a three year purchase is not available in the final two years of eligibility.  So regardless of whether you buy one or three year versions, the latest you can keep the card is the day before your 27th birthday (except for students).


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 24, 2017, 11:32:00 pm
That still means you only need to pay full fare for a maximum of 29 years.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 24, 2017, 11:53:04 pm
That still means you only need to pay full fare for a maximum of 29 years.

Not if you lop off a limb.  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Adelante_CCT on November 25, 2017, 01:16:03 pm
Quote
the latest you can keep the card is the day before your 27th birthday

Not quite, I purchased my wifes card a few days before her 26th birthday online, and because they allow an extra couple of weeks to cover postage, it was valid for about 12 days into her 28th year


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: PhilWakely on November 25, 2017, 04:45:46 pm
Are there any fraud prevention measures built into the digital versions of the various railcards?

From the images I have seen of the 26-30 Railcard and the actual digital 16-25 Railcard, there is very little difference.

I have a naturally suspicious mind and what is to stop an existing owner of a digital 16-25 railcard just creating a digital image of their card and fraudulently creating a new card (either 16-25 or 26-30)? Or, for that matter just finding an image online and using something akin to Photoshop (other image editing software is available) to create their own railcard?


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: bignosemac on November 25, 2017, 05:21:46 pm
I expect there are fraud prevention measures.

Obviously the Rail Delivery Group won't be telling us what they are.  ;)


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 25, 2017, 06:45:39 pm
I expect there are fraud prevention measures.

Obviously the Rail Delivery Group won't be telling us what they are.  ;)

I am almost into my third year of holding a Senior Git Railcard (I know, I don't look it), and I have been asked to produce it just once.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: ellendune on November 25, 2017, 06:54:38 pm
I expect there are fraud prevention measures.

Obviously the Rail Delivery Group won't be telling us what they are.  ;)

I am almost into my third year of holding a Senior Git Railcard (I know, I don't look it), and I have been asked to produce it just once.

I have only had one for 5 months and have been asked for it every time I have been asked for my ticket on the train (which is probably only twice out of the about 10 times I have used it) but every time I buy a ticket the old fashioned way I am asked for it.  I am surprised I am not asked for the number when I buy online.



Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 25, 2017, 07:09:17 pm
I have only had one for 5 months and have been asked for it every time I have been asked for my ticket on the train (which is probably only twice out of the about 10 times I have used it) but every time I buy a ticket the old fashioned way I am asked for it.  I am surprised I am not asked for the number when I buy online.

I buy online almost every time. It surprises me that I don't have to enter the number, although there are probably many people who buy tickets for other people. Maybe it would not be possible to insist on the card reference unless tickets are going to be made personal. On the few occasions I have bought a ticket on the train, I produced the card without being asked.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: PhilWakely on November 25, 2017, 07:35:20 pm
Currently, if a railcard is eyeballed at every available opportunity, there is still no foolproof mechanism to verify the authenticity of the railcard.

There is no central database for railcards bought at ticket offices; not all railcards require photographs and whilst guidelines exist as to what name is printed on a railcard, the cardholders name is a free-format entry field. I've seen cards issued in the name of (eg) 'J Bloggs', when the holders name is actually Mrs Joan Bloggs.

I doubt the level of fraud is particularly high, but the potential is there.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 25, 2017, 08:32:06 pm
I suppose that there is also the fact that even if the card is bogus or not the holder's, a ticket has still been purchased, making it less of an issue than downright fare evasion for the hard pressed TM.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Tim on November 27, 2017, 09:58:18 am
I buy online almost every time. It surprises me that I don't have to enter the number, although there are probably many people who buy tickets for other people.

As I understand it you need a valid rail card to use the appropriate discounted ticket, not to buy it.  I bought some tickets at the weekend for my family to travel in February with a F&F railcard discount.  I wasn't planning on buying a F&F rail card until shortly before the travel date.  I assume that is all legal. 


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: old original on November 27, 2017, 11:14:19 pm
I buy online almost every time. It surprises me that I don't have to enter the number, although there are probably many people who buy tickets for other people.

As I understand it you need a valid rail card to use the appropriate discounted ticket, not to buy it.  I bought some tickets at the weekend for my family to travel in February with a F&F railcard discount.  I wasn't planning on buying a F&F rail card until shortly before the travel date.  I assume that is all legal. 

Current T's & C's from the F&F railcard website...

"Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets."

However I know that this is not always rigidly enforced..


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Four Track, Now! on November 28, 2017, 11:51:52 am
Current T's & C's from the F&F railcard website...

"Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets."

However I know that this is not always rigidly enforced..

I have never waved my card at the computer. So far, I have got away with it.

Being serious, I helped a niece to save a pile of cash with split tickets to Edinburgh. I advocated buying a "Two together" card  as the saving exceeded the cost. We got the tickets two months in advance, the card the day before travel. I guess it's legal because there was no ticket office at my laptop.


Title: Re: National Railcard discounts - ongoing discussion, no longer date specific
Post by: Brucey on November 28, 2017, 07:14:47 pm
New TVMs installed at some Great Northern stations have a QR code scanner above the touchscreen.  As I can see, this serves no purpose at the moment.  I understand that the new app based railcards include a QR code.  I could see this possibly being used as an authentication measure at some point in the future.

Also, on-train QR code checking will become more common (tickets issued on rolls of paper, and some tickets from ticket machines already include a QR code), so I would think checking of the app railcard's barcode could become part of this process.



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net