Great Western Coffee Shop

I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....

You can. ^70. Online only. Can be purchased up to the day before your 24th birthday.

I'm unable to decide whether to renew my 16-25 railcard now at the discount, or wait until the very last minute just before my 26th birthday (in June) at the full price.

I don't think you can get 3-year YP cards....

You can. ^70. Online only. Can be purchased up to the day before your 24th birthday.

The 16-25 Railcard has a 10:00 general start time.
The Two Together Railcard has a 9:30 general start time.
Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.
The Disabled Railcard has no time limits.
Plus each has a list of exceptions, varying in length.

Is that not simple enough?

The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.  Customers can opt to pay a minimum fare of ^12.00 if this works out cheaper than the undiscounted ticket.  Plus it's valid on Advance tickets regardless of the time or price.  Not valid in 1st class, except for Advance tickets.

Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.

Huh? invalid during *peak* times surely

Family & Friends, and Senior, Railcards are invalid during off-peak times in the home counties.

so, can anybody explain to me the logic , if there is any, as to where easements on railcards are allowed?

But it gets even more complicated. The 16-25 is valid before 10:00 on tickets with a discounted price of ^12.00 or more.

Except there's no minimum fare at weekends, on bank holidays, or in July or August, or on a full moon (probably).

One of the best innovations ever tried on the privatised railway was in the early days of Central Trains, when rather than faffing with railcards, advances, super off-peaks, half savers, groupsaves, great escapes (contd. p74) they just Made The ----ing Fares Cheaper.

Thought this was the normal online price for any national railcard + £70 for three years...

Indeed so. Please don't tell me of any offers, as I've just forked out £70 to renew my grandad card.

Be careful.  I know someone who ordered their card on a Monday, received it Tuesday and lost it by Wednesday!

My two together card cost me ten pounds and my other railcard is valid from 0930 onwards (it used to be 10am) what railcard is it.... for bonus points guess how many swear words were directed at me in my old job for not selling the unofficial 0959 easement from grateley

Unofficial in that it is not an valid easement at all ..unofficial in that some staff did it anyway to avoid the abuse which lead to more abuse for the staff who followed the rules,the train is at 0959 the railcard is valid after 10am so by selling a ticket for the 0959 discounted with the network card is not valid and by boarding train with said ticket said person would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be subject to a penalty fare

i'm not really sure why you took what i wrote and that lead you to believe that you could board at grately  with an andover ticket ... so without a valid ticket... struggling with your logic on that one i'm afraid!

As a railcard holder you really should be aware of the terms and conditions and its validity (you signed to say that you were)  below is a full list of legitimate valid easements for your railcard along with the t&c's for said product

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

Network Railcard discounts are not valid on tickets for travel before 10.00hrs, Monday to Friday (excluding public holidays). This time restriction applies to all types of tickets.

Unofficial in that it is not an valid easement at all ..unofficial in that some staff did it anyway to avoid the abuse which lead to more abuse for the staff who followed the rules,the train is at 0959 the railcard is valid after 10am so by selling a ticket for the 0959 discounted with the network card is not valid and by boarding train with said ticket said person would be travelling without a valid ticket and could be subject to a penalty fare

i'm not really sure why you took what i wrote and that lead you to believe that you could board at grately  with an andover ticket ... so without a valid ticket... struggling with your logic on that one i'm afraid!

As a railcard holder you really should be aware of the terms and conditions and its validity (you signed to say that you were)  below is a full list of legitimate valid easements for your railcard along with the t&c's for said product

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/using-your-railcard/travel-times/

http://www.network-railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).

Perhaps no-one updated it when the service first went hourly?   Maybe an an error rather than a conspiracy...

Paul

I don't understand why the 0823 from Exeter St Davids (and 0827 Exeter Central, 0832 Pinhoe, 0836 Cranbrook, 0841 Whimple, 0847 Feniton) have a Network Railcard easement, but not the 0925 (calls at Central, Pinhoe, Cranbrook and Whimple before 1000).

I'm led to believe D&C railcard can also be used on the 0823 from Exeter st davids to Axminster.

No one generally carries two phones, maybe one & a tablet, which one again generally doesn't carry all the time.

This lose your phone & you'll be inconvenienced by having to carry the tablet on journeys until renewal. Personally, hard copy railcard is replaceable for £10, that strikes me as likely more convenient over time, unless loss is nearly at end of validity

Only if you don't have to diwnload to two devices at time of purchase....

No one generally carries two phones, maybe one & a tablet, which one again generally doesn't carry all the time.

This lose your phone & you'll be inconvenienced by having to carry the tablet on journeys until renewal. Personally, hard copy railcard is replaceable for £10, that strikes me as likely more convenient over time, unless loss is nearly at end of validity

And perhaps most interesting of all is the registration of domains suggesting a Rail Ombudsman may be coming...

http://viewdns.info/reversewhois/?q=Atoc+limited

ombudsmanrail.com
ombudsmanrail.org

26-30 RAILCARD TRIAL
This Autumn, the Rail Delivery Group will be trialling a new addition to the Railcard family; the 26-30Railcard.

For the duration of the trial, the new Railcard will be:
• available as a digital Railcard ONLY. 26 – 30 Railcards will be available through the ‘Railcard’ app on iOS and Android mobile devices – No physical cards issued;
• available as a one-year Railcard only;
• based on the existing 16-25 Railcard offering - same conditions and time restrictions will apply (with the exception of the July/August minimum fare restriction- which will be removed);
• be available for 26 – 30 year olds inclusive (Railcard eligibility will be up to and including the day before customer turns 31);
• limited (sales) to customers living in the Greater Anglia geographical area only, until early January. From early 2018 the trial will be expanded to retail nationwide;
• available to be used nationwide;
• limited to 10k Railcard sales in Greater Anglia area, with an additional 10k being added when the product goes national in early 2018.

Good news.  If rolled out nationally will they just rename the 16-25 Railcard the 16-30 Railcard to keep it simple?

When, if at any point, does such a product start falling foul of age discrimination I wonder?

Rail Delivery Group brief to staff:

If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?


I didn't think there is a restriction in the summer months of July/August is there - what is it?

I was wondering about this wording too. The only way I can get my head around it is they mean that on the 16-25 the minimum fare is restricted in July/August (not applied) - it wont be restricted on the 26-30 (it will be applied). Crystal clear mud.

If you have a railcard for all ages, you may as well just lower fares, surely?

It becomes a loyalty card.    If I pay (say) £50 a year I get 34% off off-peak, special fares, rangers and rovers. If I pay £100 a year, I get 40% off, if I pay £200 a year, I get half price and the card extends to a friend travelling with me too.   Figures and benefits need to be tuned.

Once someone takes the plunge buys a higher tier card , it really encourages them to use the train rather than their car as their per-journey cost is cut.  Even those entitled to other rail cards might plump for the higher levels of this one (make it a 16 to 100 card!) and switch more of their travel to rail spending (in the end) more than they do at the moment, but for much more off peak travel.

Rough edges and unintended consequences need looking at ... this is mega-playing with fares!

I was wondering about this wording too. The only way I can get my head around it is they mean that on the 16-25 the minimum fare is restricted in July/August (not applied) - it wont be restricted on the 26-30 (it will be applied). Crystal clear mud.

Nice way of easing the youngsters into commuting - let's give 'em money off their commute!

Debate that in suburban London on rail-only commutes.

I think this should have no problem generating money. Especially from people who had a 16-25 railcard, used rail a lot, got too old for the railcard and then stopped using rail as much because of the price increase and looked to alternatives like coaches etc. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I have started to use the coach instead of rail now I no longer have a railcard because the price difference is so much more (£38 return Bath to London on the train with the railcard is just about acceptable compared to on average £20 return by coach because of the faster and more comfortable journey, but £57 return is just too much in comparison) a railcard that I could have would certainly entice me back to rail.

Perhaps it's too radical, but how about a 16 to 59 railcard - or a 16 to 54 if the Senior were to be switched back to 55?

Could even do different prices and discount levels - Sapphire, Ruby and Diamond cards (though I'm not sure which of those is the most precious gemstone so what order they would come in!)

There is an article on MoneySavingExpert about speculation of a 26-30 railcard being trialled by Greater Anglia (see https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/10/new-26-30-railcard-to-be-trialled-from-december).

As someone who is in this age group and doesn't travel by train much now due to the cost, I'm rather supportive, but it will just delay my lack of usage by another few years.

I'm also concerned about the digital only aspect of the card.  Great for short journeys, not ideal for a longer journey where you may runout of charge.

Err... Reply #59 of this thread, et seq. More than just speculation.

A new railcard is set to transform British travel for millions of millennials, offering one-third off many rail journeys. On an off-peak return from Manchester to London normally costing £83.90, the saving will be £28.50 - saving almost the cost of the card on one journey.

The 26-30 discount card is expected to become available nationwide early next year, cutting train fares by one-third for people born between 1988 and 1992 who choose to sign up.

A trial in the Greater Anglia area will begin in December this year, with 10,000 railcards on offer to eligible people living in the area. Another 10,000 cards will be issued nationwide in the New Year.

'Millennial railcard' set to launch for 26-30 year olds

News of the initiative emerged last month on a rail forum, discussing a leaked internal document from the Rail Delivery Group.

A spokesman for the group, which represents train operators and Network Rail, told The Independent: “We can’t comment on this at the moment, but we are always carrying out research and working with the train companies to develop new offers that make leisure travel easier, and better value for money.”

However, based on experience and industry contacts, it is possible to draw some conclusions about how the discount scheme will work.

Q What railcards are available at present?

The main widely available national cards are 16-25 for young people; Family & Friends for adults and children travelling in a group (at least one of each); Two Together for two named (and photographed) individuals making the same journey; and Senior for travellers aged 60 or over.

They are supplemented with limited eligibility cards such as the Disabled Person's Railcard, the Gold Card for annual season ticket holders and the HM Forces Railcard, as well as numerous cards for specific areas, from South-East England (Network Card) to the Esk Valley Railcard.

For the average adult aged 26-59, though, there is no straightforward way to secure a discount on rail fares.

Q What is proposed, and what will it offer?

A new 26-30 Railcard, extending most of the benefits of the 16-25 scheme to an older age group.

The basic deal is a saving of 34 per cent on many rail tickets. The main restriction is aimed at excluding the card’s use for most commuter journeys in the morning rush hour. While discounts are available on Advance fares without time limits, Anytime and Off Peak tickets are subject to a minimum fare of £12 from Monday to Friday (except public holidays).

For 16-25 Railcards that restriction is lifted in July and August, the idea being to encourage students and young people to travel more by train at a time of year when rush-hour trains are less crowded. But train operators are insisting the minimum fare applies year-round for the 26-30 card, because most of the people signing up for it will be in full-time work.

It is possible the minimum fare will rise to £15 for the 26-30 Railcard.

Q Why are cards being issued only in one region initially, and in such low numbers?

The Greater Anglia train operator is trialling the railcard from December, but to start with only 10,000 will be on offer. Though the card is available only in East Anglia, it will be valid for travel nationwide.

Demand is likely to be strong from travellers in Suffolk and Norfolk, who are currently outside the Network Card area; and from passengers from outside the region who work around the geographical limits to benefit from cheaper fares. Demand for the tranche of 10,000 railcards to be released nationwide early in 2018 will be even more intense.

The train operators are concerned about the risk of an unexpectedly strong uptake among commuters and business travellers. By capping the number of cards sold and restricting the availability, they can limit the possible drop in revenue. In addition, there could be a surge in 26-30 year olds moving to rail for commuting because of the card, adding to overcrowding on peak trains.

Q Will it be an actual card?

Not initially. The first versions will be available on smartphone only via the Railcard app on Apple IOS or Android. Train operators are increasingly offering mobile ticketing, and it makes sense for the card and the ticket to be held in the same smartphone ticket wallet. But train operators are concerned about everything from a higher-than-expected incidence of flat batteries and lost phones to opportunities for fraud.

Once the rail industry assesses whether a virtual railcard is feasible, a decision will be taken on whether to offer physical cards instead or as well. There will also be pressure to make the card as inclusive as possible, by ensuring it can be bought at rail stations

Q What proof will I need of my age?

Your passport or driving licence. If you have neither, you will need to supply a birth certificate and additional evidence.

Q How much will it cost?

Probably £30, the same as most other national railcards. Unlike the other major railcards, though, there will be no three-year option – at least initially.

Q I’m nearly 30 – will I have to wait until I am 60 before I qualify for a railcard?

Not necessarily. It is likely that the scheme is likely to emulate the current option for 25-year-olds: buy a railcard the day before your 26th birthday and you can continue to use it for another 12 months. So someone who turns 31 on 1 July 2018 will be able to buy a card on 30 June and use it until 29 June the following year.

In addition, a 55-plus card is believed to be under discussion, with many of the benefits of the Senior Railcard.

Q Why has the 31 to 59 age range been excluded from cheap tickets?

Many of them already use Family & Friends or Two Together railcards. (The train operators really like these, because they are rarely used for work-related trips.) But the 26-30 card is seen as a trial for a wider National Railcard scheme along the lines of the existing Bahncard scheme in Germany, where discounts are given to holders of any age in a bid to lure people off the autobahn and on to Deutsche Bahn.

Head to your nearest app store to find out more.  ;)

The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand. The DfT may well be forcing it on the TOCs but I think it highly unlikely that Govt. are offering any funding. Instead it seems to be nothing other than a craven attempt at currying favour with a certain electoral demographic by pretending to be benevolent. The reality being, I suspect, zero pounds from Govt. with costs absorbed by TOCs.

Hopefully Mr Hammond will prove me wrong and is offering funding. But then, why not be really bold and fund a National Railcard?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42052750

The national roll out of a 16-30 Railcard is due to be announced by Chancellor of the Exchequer, Phillip Hammond, in the Budget this week.

Quite what it has to do with the Budget though I'm struggling to understand.

This could pave the way for a cut in benefit rates for the under-30s in the next budget.

Jobseekers, and ESA claimants in the Work Focused Activity group can already get a free Railcard which gives them 50% off Standard Class fares.

Perhaps that’s why, I understand, they struggle to find the paperwork for those who wish to get the railcard they are entitled to.

Perhaps that’s why, I understand, they struggle to find the paperwork for those who wish to get the railcard they are entitled to.

Just to clarify. It will be a separate 26-30 Railcard, due to slightly different T&Cs.

I guess it is one small  recognition of how unaffordable rail travel has become for large swathes of people, however why that has to be limited to under 30s I really don't know.

We're not the only place though. In Switzerland virtually no one, bar the occasional tourist, pays full prices for public transport as I believe there is a national travel discount card scheme (for purchase, but the savings far outweigh the outlay) available to all.

Of course, in Britain tourist can get special Britrail prices so that pay fares that are often so low they would make you weep!

This could pave the way for a cut in benefit rates for the under-30s in the next budget.

If this scheme is revenue neutral and boosts rail use, that’s good for the environment and the economy.

It should be rolled out for everyone.
I seem to think Railfuture had a National railcard Campaign , but this wa dropped as it was not revenue neutral , let’s start it again , I want a discount ..

In Switzerland virtually no one, bar the occasional tourist, pays full prices for public transport as I believe there is a national travel discount card scheme (for purchase, but the savings far outweigh the outlay) available to all.

Something on Radio 4 earlier today leads me to think that this card will not be subject to the Peak Time restrictions of other railcards???.
Wish I could add more but the washing machine was going at the time !...

The current 16-25 Railcard doesn't have a time restriction as such. Just a minimum fare of £12 before 10am. If your journey is before 10am and costs £12.05-£17.95 it will be discounted to £12. If the fare is £18 or more then it's discounted by 34%.

The 26-30 Railcard trial has the same conditions.

Will a 3-year 26-30 railcard bought the day before the 30th birthday be valid for 3 years still?

Will a 3-year 26-30 railcard bought the day before the 30th birthday be valid for 3 years still?

That still means you only need to pay full fare for a maximum of 29 years.

the latest you can keep the card is the day before your 27th birthday

I expect there are fraud prevention measures.

Obviously the Rail Delivery Group won't be telling us what they are.  ;)

I am almost into my third year of holding a Senior Git Railcard (I know, I don't look it), and I have been asked to produce it just once.

I have only had one for 5 months and have been asked for it every time I have been asked for my ticket on the train (which is probably only twice out of the about 10 times I have used it) but every time I buy a ticket the old fashioned way I am asked for it.  I am surprised I am not asked for the number when I buy online.

I buy online almost every time. It surprises me that I don't have to enter the number, although there are probably many people who buy tickets for other people.

As I understand it you need a valid rail card to use the appropriate discounted ticket, not to buy it.  I bought some tickets at the weekend for my family to travel in February with a F&F railcard discount.  I wasn't planning on buying a F&F rail card until shortly before the travel date.  I assume that is all legal. 

Current T's & C's from the F&F railcard website...

"Tickets for your journey should be purchased before boarding the train and when buying tickets you must show the Railcard. This does not apply if there was no ticket office at the station at which you began your journey or if the ticket office was closed and there was no ticket machine from which you could buy discounted tickets."

However I know that this is not always rigidly enforced..

....but if your 'phone battery goes flat and the RP inspector can't see evidence of railcard or ticket are you technically not in possession of the required travel documents and therefore committing an offence?

Card is king,

OTC

I always try to ensure I go out fully charged, and if it's a longer trip I'll have a charger on me. Most long distance and regional trains have power sockets these day.

also they will charge your 'phone a lot quicker than a socket.