Great Western Coffee Shop

Hi there,

My wife and I are considering relocating from London to somewhere in the area around Hungerford, Bedwyn or Pewsey. We both work in London so would plan on commuting on a daily basis. We've had a good look at the current services between Pewsey, Hungerford and other stations on that line and it seems that it's quite doable. However, before committing to anything, I figured it would be sensible to check if there is any potential for changes to the service in future.

I found a few articles suggesting that electrification of the line as far a Newbury might mean far fewer direct services to Paddington from stations west of there, or possible none at all from some, and also questions about the future of Pewsey. For example:
- http://www.marlboroughnewsonline.co.uk/news/all-the-news/3158-government-consultation-on-future-of-bedwyn-train-services-give-your-views-by-thursday (http://www.marlboroughnewsonline.co.uk/news/all-the-news/3158-government-consultation-on-future-of-bedwyn-train-services-give-your-views-by-thursday)
- https://www.transitionmarlborough.org/blogpost194-Direct-services-between-Bedwyn-and-London-to-be-cut-by-May-2017 (https://www.transitionmarlborough.org/blogpost194-Direct-services-between-Bedwyn-and-London-to-be-cut-by-May-2017)
- http://pewsey.ourcommunitymatters.org.uk/news/threat-to-pewsey-train-services/ (http://pewsey.ourcommunitymatters.org.uk/news/threat-to-pewsey-train-services/)
- http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/9940656.End_of_the_line_for_Pewsey_/ (http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/9940656.End_of_the_line_for_Pewsey_/)

Some of that information is quite old, however, and none if it seems very definite. Is there any firm information about what the future holds here? Obviously, if there's not going to be a decent direct service to Paddington in future, it may well affect our plans!

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum, Mathew.

I wish I could write firmly telling you what changes will happen to services at what date, but realistically I can't - and I don't think anyone can.   I would expect a very do-able commute to remain from Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn and Pewsey to London at normal commuting times, and I would expect to see a regular interval service at every station, with a priority on traffic in the London direction, through the day.   You will note that I'm being very careful with my words; I'm not committing to hourly, nor am I committing to a through service.

Take a look at pages 9 and 36 of this document from last Autumn: http://atrebatia.info/gwrupdate8417.pdf but then consider that electrification has slipped considerably and it ain't going to be electrified to Newbury by next May ... also note that all the longer distance units that were going to be built as electric will be delivered as bimode (i.e. have diesel engines too). There was been talk too of electric multiple units with batteries to cover those last few unelectrified miles beyond Newbury, though the economics of this are far from clear. And to the West of where you're going to be, there is considerable disquiet at the prospect of passengers from Solent / Wiltshire to Plymouth / Penzance / Torbay who currently change at Westbury having to make an extra change - services from the "Peninsular" to London being sped up at the expense of service and the economy in Wilsthire at the wider central southern England area.

Coming back to you question about commuting - I don't know your timing details and needs, but it should be do-able by train.  For the "last mile" - if you're looking to use buses to get to the station, do note there was a Wiltshire Consultation on bus futures looking at saving support costs from the 2017/18 year, and the outcome from that is far from clear.

Thanks for you response, Grahame! I guess it should be no surprise that there's little certainty about anything, but it's good to know at least what the plan were.

We're quite familiar with the existing intercity services (we have family in Devon and West Wales, making trips on them quite common), so I know that they're comfortable enough to contemplate spending 2 hours a day on them, and that you could get some work done with a small laptop. I'm not familiar with the stopping trains that currently go to Bedwyn; do you know if those are trains you could work at a laptop on? And is there any information at all on what the replacements will be like in future?

There are many pages of debate, on this forum and others, over whether the new AT300 series trains (classes 800, 801 and 802) will be more or less comfortable than the current trains you are used to, all of which are likely to be replaced in the next few years (unless you currently use the class 166/165 Networker Turbos on one of the Thames Valley branches that isn't being electrified). Some who have sat in the pre-series class 800 units have suggest the DfT have specified cheap seats which are not very comfortable, but we won't know for sure what they are like until the first ones enter service next year.

I *think* WiFi installation is underway on the class 165 / 166 Thames Turbos - currently in use on the Bedwyns, and still in use on the Bedwyns even if they end up turning around at Newbury.   It's certainly planned.  My own local station will be switching from other trains to the turbos as part of the changes, and we're promised WiFi which most of our trains don't have at present.  And that promise is a lot more definite than schedule promises.

Hi Mathew,

I live a bit further up the line from where you are planning to move to, and am a fairly regular traveller into London from Thatcham (mainly for work) although not a commuter.

Most of the Turbo's (2 and 3 coach trains that run to, and turn-around at Bedwyn currently) do appear to have wifi now, based on my recent experience and it seems to work quite well for me. I think most if not all of the HST's now have it.

I would also suggest that you have a look (if not already) at http://www.bedwyntrains.org.uk/ (http://www.bedwyntrains.org.uk/)which is the website of the Bedwyn Trains Passenger Group. They are a group of people who aim to raise the profile of rail usage from Bedwyn, and have lobbied for improvement (and against reduction) of services from Bedwyn, Station facilities etc. Their site will give you a good view of local services.

 

Hi, as others say, you need to make your own informed judgements on this.

The facts as we know them are that no electrification is planned beyond Newbury, and the Exeter/Cornwall HST's are going to be replaced with new electro-diesel high-speed trains from Hitachi over the next few years. These are known as AT300s and not quite the same as the IEPs the DfT procured from the same manufacturer (Hitachi) for Cardiff/Swansea/Bristol, they have been procured by First, should have better engines, and rumour suggests that they will have a better class of fit-out. They are based on the Javelin units that run out of St Pancras and seem to be boringly reliable. However, no production units have gone into service yet, so we don't really know how they'll be. The GWR electric service will use new class 387s from Bombardier, which are pretty standard electric commuter units, used on the Gatwick Express services for example. There will also be Crossrail from Reading post-2019 using new high-density units from Bombardier. 

Beyond that, no-one really knows. Network Rail is in the planning stages for 2019 to 2024 5-year plan (CP6), which might see an extension of electrification for example. The GWR franchise is up for renewal to start in April 2019, which would typically include new trains and services.

The worst case scenario for you is probably that the Bedwyn services become a DMU shuttle from Newbury, necessitating a change of train at Newbury, either onto a new AT300, or a 387 EMU, both of which should be fairly nice. The best case is probably that GWR order some more AT300s and extend the Bedwyn service to Westbury, so you get a regular service to London all the way on a shiny new AT300. The other possibility is that electrification is extended, but using 387's, so you have to go all the way to London with your laptop perched on your knee.

There's also a possibility that a Devizes Parkway station will be opened (which might affect your choice of location), and a really remote possibility that a branch to Marlborough might be reopened.

 

The established plan for post electrification is clear enough - it's in SLC3a of the current "franchise". This is the main part of that minimum required service for December 2018 is:

There is also "(c) Services may be provided in conjunction with Route B." Route B is the West of England service, where it says:


The full stopping pattern of the semifasts is up to the TOC to decide, within the specified journey times.

According to the Hendy "get real" plan for electrification, December 2018 will now be "Infrastructure authorised for passenger use", rather than "First timetabled public use of the infrastructure", but that shouldn't slip more than 6 months.

The Western Route Study also gives the 2019 ITSS (planning assumption) as:


The 2043 ITSS (an aspiration for 2043 or earlier) is to more than double that service, but it than goes on to say:


It goes on to discuss how to accommodate the full 2043 ITSS with (lots of) new infrastructure, and what can be done without. That's the "NR View" of what is likely to be possible and/or affordable. It tends to be what happens, unless the politics changes.

Have heard the rumours doing the rounds that  GWR are in favour of an hourly semi fast service at leats between London & Westbury/Taunton  with trains serviing Bedwyn etc instead of a Bedwyn - Newbury shuttle

I believe that the turnback siding in Bedwyn can't fit any more than a Turbo in it and the quote to extend it was enormous. So probably a good excuse/business case to buy some more AT300s and extend to at least Westbury, if not Taunton. Might help also that the MP for Devizes is the Rail Minister!

A lot of froth in the press release, but confirmation that NR/GWR are looking to extend the turnback siding at Bedwyn, so that AT300s can be used to maintain the current through services from Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury to London, without necessarily having to have come from somewhere further west:

https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/news/2017/february/direct-services-to-bedwyn-and-frome-to-continue-as-work-begins-on-new-fleet-of-trains

Text of the news release

Good news indeed for the folks west of Newbury (and those just east aswell!).

Does leave me wondering though how many 387's we will see on the B&H.

If the semi-fasts are on bi-modes, I guess that only leaves the Reading-Newbury shuttles for the EMU's?

If that's the case, Midgham and Aldermaston will only accommodate a 4-car unit (if that?) and I don't believe there are any plans to extend the platforms at those locations (although we know there are at Thatcham and Theale).

Quite a few questions still as to how this will pan out!

I would guess that there will be a few Class 387 8-car peak trains between Newbury and Paddington stopping at the lengthened platforms, with an all-day Newbury-Reading shuttle utilising a 4-car unit using SDO if necessary at places like Midgham and Aldermaston.

That will compliment an AT300 service from Bedwyn to Paddington (perhaps a few coming from Frome or Westbury) of 5-cars off-peak, which during the peaks will be replaced with 9/10 car services which will all have originated from further west.

An improvement all round on the current offering if that's the case.

There seems a lot of sense in this.

* Reducing Newbury - Bedwyn to a diesel shuttle was a pretty unwelcome idea and would have been an isolated operation for a turbo unit.   

* Using 319 BiModes would have been pretty unpopular with those in Newbury and to the east thereof who are looking forward (one guesses, but perhaps members who live in that area can confirm) to new 387s and don't want suburban hand-downs.

* Just running an AT300 every 2 hours west of Newbury for intermediate stops to Westbury and beyond, including Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn, would do significant damage to traffic at those three stations, and to the lives of the users providing that traffic.

Stopping patterns of the Bedwyn service and the beyond-Bedwyn services, and final destinations, will be interesting.   Consider ...

1. Pewsey, which move from an erratic service to and from London into a much more regularly timed service, electric much of the way, but in probability a lot more stops for most if not all trains.

2. Westbury towards London, which again moves from an erratic service to a two-hourly one, but with additional stops in it and timings which aren't going to greatly differ from many current trains even though they're faster / "better" electrics. May even be slower with all the extra stops

3. Bedwyn and Pewsey to Westbury - there has long been a bone of contention from the Wiltshire communities served by Bedwyn and Pewsey that train decent services to the rest of their county are non-existent.  Important in this will be how the connections are set up at Westbury.

4. Westbury and it's catchment / connectional stations to Exeter, the rest of Devon and Cornwall.   The flow from Westbury west is significant - far more significant than you would think if you read certain reports.   For the business of Swindon and Wiltshire, of the Solent area including Southampton and Portsmouth connections to and from the businesses of Exeter, Torbay, Plymouth and Cornwall, Westbury is a key interchange and a decent service westwards (and a long way westwards) makes a very real difference.   I am unclear how this shakes out in the announcement, and slightly concerned at the mention of Frome in such a way that it may be regarded as the end of the line

5. Frome has an erratic service with some unfortunate gaps at present.  Bringing alternate "Bedwyn trains" through to Frome would be of a great benefit to the town.

6. Frome Westward.  Unsure what the plans are here from the announcement; Frome (Somerst, population around 25,000) has a virtually non-existent service to its county town of Taunton, and there's a market there which has also been identified by others.

7. Connectional issues into these trains at Westbury towards London from Trowbridge and Warminster.  There's a limited though service at present (five per week) from Trowbridge to Paddington, and from both you also have direct much much slower services a few times a day to Waterloo.   Improvement of pattern from Westbury could be a benefit to both feeders, though Warminster also feed quite well via Salisbury and these days Trowbridge feeds much better than it used to via Swindon.

This morning I was up and about earlier than normal (on my way to Southampton Airport) and found myself sat at Thatcham Crossing awaiting a passing train at around 6.15am.

Was quite surprised to see a 180 pull up and stop on a PAD-bound service - is that normal as I've not seen one on the B&H before?

Yes, one morning service from Newbury has been in the hands of a 180 for a couple of years now.

I live and learn, thanks. Guess I'm not normally up and about early enough to see it.