Great Western Coffee Shop

TravelWatch SouthWest's twice a year general meeting - first Saturday in March and October.


The twice yearly meetings were invaluable to our "Save the Train" and (now) TransWilts team as we campaigned (and now partner) for an appropriate, successful, permanent train service from Swindon and / or Chippenham to / via Westbury.   Some 100 organisations are members, and the majority send representatives twice a year to these general meetings.   It's not only an opportunity to learn from (and question) key speakers from public transport industry and government related positions, but also to network with other organisations and contacts. Public transport campaigning/partnering is very rarely about competing with other campaigns/partnerships, and we're all very much looking to meet parallel objectives for our own areas.

If you (dear reader) are part of an organisation that's already a part of TravelWatch SouthWest, I look forward to seeing you / your representative there.   If you're a fledgling group or an individual with an idea or interest and you feel it could be useful, please get in touch - personal message or email ( grahamellis at transwilts.org ). A key element of "TWSW" is that a very early welcome is extended to those who want and might benefit from that welcome.

Area covered - Gloucestershire, Swindon, Wiltshire, Dorset and everywhere to the south west thereof.   Also fully aware of cross boundary services and influences, so don't be put off if you're from Wantage, Hungerford, Evesham, Mottisfont ...

Might be worth checking - I think we were informed that the October meeting is on the 8th...that's certainly what I put in my diary

I WILL check that Chris ... thanks for the "heads up".

Their website has the meeting set "provisionally" for 1st October.

http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/meetings/ (http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/meetings/)

That's a fairly recent change then....but good for me as I had a big clash on the 8th & was going to have to choose between being in Taunton or Shrewsbury!

There will be a discussion and (I imagine) a final decision on the date at the TWSW board meeting later this month; with ACoRP on 29th September in Southport, Tory party conference 2nd to 5th October, 1st isn't a great choice.  We loose rail people who are recovering from their trip to Southport, and politicians who are headed for Birmingham.  But there is comment that on 8th there are engineering works effecting trains?

The TWSW team met yesterday ... definite for 8th October now.   For those of you who wanted 1st - sorry!

8th is a date clear of a lot of other things and on balance suits more people ... gives us the larger audience, and an opportunity to attract speakers who certainly wouldn't have felt it clever to be in Taunton on 1st.  I will post the speakers list as I have it confirmed.

From that, might I assume that you may be joining us at TravelWatch SouthWest in Taunton from Cherwell, ChrisB?

If so, we look forward to enjoying a pint with you in The Plough after the meeting.  ;) :D ;D

50/50 at the moment, as I'm also supposed to be in Shrewsbury - and they're a tad too far apart to split my time & cover both!

So I'm waiting for the agenda to see how much Rail it contains, and will have to send my apologies in one direction or the other.

This meeting on 8th October 2016 will be in the Albermarle Centre, Albermarle St, Taunton. Just off Station Road.

Yes indeed - full details have sent out with invites.

A representative from each / any group interested in public and sustainable transport to, from or within the SouthWest (Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Dorset, and southwest thereof is welcome / encouraged to attend. This includes groups for who travel and transport is one of a number of issues in their coverage - for example the meetings are attended by representatives of some Chambers of Commerce, equality groups, Women's institutes, etc..   Public Transport, local government and interested unaffiliated individuals are also welcome.

That may sound like a very wide ranging and inclusive list (it's intended to be such), and if you're a member of any such group / company that's not already represented, you'll be welcomed with open arms by prior invite.  However, the TWSW general meeting stops short of being a public meeting as the purpose is for groups to liaise and for representatives to return home informed or inform the meeting.  Where important / relevant, an invite can be arranged for a group to be double-represented, but the organisers and sponsors do have to draw the line at whole groups turning up unannounced as their autumn day out.  Established forum members -  please let me know (persononal message or email fine) if you would an invite as you fit in (or come close) with the wide description above.

Is the taking of refreshment in the Plough confirmed ? At roughly what time ?

Be good if the agwnda could be published....I may have to tender my apologies if the rail content isn't particularly 'strong' as I have another engagement wanting my attendance in Shrewsbury

I have to concur with ChrisB on this one - it would be good if the agenda could be published, fairly soon.  ::)

Also, as a long-standing (albeit intermittent, due to prior work commitments!) attendee at such meetings, I'm slightly concerned that I haven't received any invitation to this particular meeting.  ::)

Have I possibly been struck off the register?  :P :-[ :-X

As far as I'm concerned, broadgage, the partaking of refreshments in The Pough is confirmed, from about 3:00pm onwards.

The venue of the TravelWatch SouthWest meeting has been changed, but that, if anything, makes it even easier for delegates to call in at The Plough on their way to, _cough, Taunton Station.  ::) ;) ;D

I'll be there, with my orange hi-viz.  ;) :D ;D

It's a nightmare job for the secretary to keep up with who's around - in some groups, members change even quicker than rail ministers!     I've emailed a copy of my invite / bcc'd the meeting secretary.

I hope to be there, please keep a look out as I am so small and insignificant as to be easily overlooked.
Expect to be wearing black shoes, black trousers and a maroon sweatshirt.
Will probably be with a friend who works in the rail industry.

Hopefully others will be there ?

Thanks for that, grahame.  ;)

The TravelWatch SouthWest meeting secretary has contacted me to apologise for previously getting my e-mail address wrong: all is now sorted, she is very much forgiven, and I'm looking forward to seeing you all at the meeting.  :D ;D

  ;D

Agenda now on the website.

Other than item 2, which I'd very much like to hear (can someone take detailed notes on the increase in number of seats *and* how they are going to find them!), I have to unfortunately be in Shrewsbury. My apologies that I won't be partaking afterwards.

For the XC direct award, I believe the 'additional' seats are coming from utilising the HSTs more, currently only 2/3 are used on a weekday out of the 5 sets they have, and possibly getting hold of the two spare voyager driving cars that were split up some years ago.

Converting 2 x 5 car trains into 3 x 4 car trains by using the spare driving cars is a confirmed fact, there's a XC staff brief video doing the rounds that explains it:  

https://vimeo.com/184808769/cd57418360

At 1m 40s he refers to the spare Voyager end cars.
At 2m 02s he refers to higher HST utilisation.

Of course as has been discussed in a number of places, the headline 39,000 seats per year is a trivial number expressed per weekday...

Paul

But less trivial when you understand the additional seats are not spread across the weekday, but targeted at specific peak services where the additional capacity is most needed.

I understand that, but remain fairly sure that the reason for expressing it as 39,000 per annum is done because it sounds much better.   There have been other similar DfT announcements in the past that have been expressed in seats per week or per month.   They say whatever suits them best on the day...

Paul

I noticed that in the video linked above we are told that they are addressing the issue of 'crowding'.  That perhaps sounds better than 'overcrowding'.  A crowded train may simply be very full or indeed completely full. That is acceptable in a cost conscious industry. The problem most people have is overcrowding where there is hardly room to stand or move around.

I'm pleased that Andy Cooper finds more 4 coach trains more flexible that fewer 5 coach trains. The passenger arriving for a currently busy 5 car service with reduced capacity may not be as sanguine knowing someone else has the benefit of 'their' coach. On the other hand an 8 coach train would of course be a winner...until you find you're in the wrong unit for your destination.  But that's another discussion and not unique to XC.

Yes, you & I have read that at the same place, but there's no confirmation anywhere. Removing 2 5car voyagers will cause serious overcrowding on those services that use them currently.

I heard it from his own mouth in the video link above put up by Adelante_CCT.

I don't mind taking credit for Paul's work  ::)

Good heavens ... can't recall seeing them exceed 2 except at times of duress at my local station ...

What if those single 5 car diagrams are replaced by a HST or 2x 4 car running together?

In all the years I've travelled CrossCountry I've only ever stood during disruption, when with a buggy, and once on 27th December when I gave up my seat to an elderly lady.

The number of seats quoted extra is around 1-2 carriages per day, the figures quoted would be greater for a full set.

The two spare driving cars and two carriages are expected to be removed from 5 coach trains are expected to be reformed to make an additional set.

Which shows that there'll be just the one additional set, meaning just one extra lengthened set than now. So very little opportunity to run extra 2set trains, while 2 5car sets will be reduced by one car. So only one extra diagram or 2train set per day, while 2 (old) 5car units get reduced sets.

I make that a net loss in terms of reduced seats sets

Apologies to both parties.   :-[

Can someone attending please follow this up?....


Confirmation (or not) that they will be stopping there as soon as the station opens for service, or a later date, or not at all in this direct award.

Thanks

Drifting only slightly off topic, are many of us meeting afterwards at the Plough pub in Taunton ?
I hope to be there from about 15-00.

I expect to be wearing dark shoes, dark trousers and a maroon sweatshirt. Please keep a good look out as I am so small as to be readily overlooked.

(the above is largely a repeat of my posting in the WSR steam gala thread, but no harm in repeating here, IMO)

To be fair, there was no drifting off topic in your post, broadgage: the original discussion here related to the TravelWatch SouthWest meeting in Taunton on Saturday, and the opportunity it presented for a social meeting in a public house afterwards.  ;)

I have now moved and merged a few posts from another diary entry here, as they originally appeared in the West Somerset Railway steam gala topic but are perhaps better read here, in the interests of continuity.

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend the TravelWatch SouthWest meeting myself, due to my being asked to work on my day off at very short notice, but I did manage to get down to Taunton for the social event (albeit somewhat belatedly).  ::)


Well, I did manage to get to The Plough and meet broadgage and his friend, and I am so pleased that I did.  While broadgage is an incredible source of railway information, memories and anecdotes, I thought he was matched this afternoon by his friend.

I won't betray any confidences here by stating only that broadgage's friend is a train driver - he's been in the industry a fair while, and has apparently seen most things that can (but usually shouldn't) happen on the railways.  I encouraged him to join the Coffee Shop forum (apparently, he does read it as a guest), but with absolutely no pressure on him to post if he's not comfortable with that.  (We did have some discussion about the various 'social media guidelines / rules' of various organisations in the railway industry, in that context.)  :-X

My thanks to broadgage and 'broadgage 2' (that's just a working title!) for a most enjoyable discussion this afternoon!  ;D

Confirmation from Richard Gibson of XC at TravelWatch - my notes and comments at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17489.msg202288#msg202288

and we've been told we'll get a set of the slides ... due to the metrics of the room, the photos I took of one of two of the slides are unreadable.

Richard was wooly about which trains will loose a carriage, and whilst he talked about upgrading the HSTs so they can run beyond 2020, no mention was made of any extra HST diagrams.  And it came across clearly that the use of these sets beyond 1.1.2020 when they need the plug doors and captureloos isn't a consideration of the team for the current franchise.

As you'll see from my notes in the other thread - limited opportunity to question, with Ivybridge, adding 2 cars to peak services, and disabled access at times of rail replacement bus operations being the questions that got called in the luck of the draw!

Some presentations from October now available via http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/meetings/

Presentation: ‘Bus Services in Action’ Go South Coast’s Managing Director, Andrew Wickham
Presentation: ‘Total Transport’ Devon County Council’s Head of the Transport Co-ordination Service, Damien Jones
Workshop: PRTF consultation Christopher Irwin, TravelWatch SouthWest

Thank you for posting that link to some of the presentations made at TravelWatch SouthWest in October, grahame.  Some very interesting reading there.  :)

I look forward to also seeing the slides for Richard Gibson of Cross Country's presentation, as soon as they become available.

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend the actual meeting in Taunton, due to my being called in to work at very short notice.  :-X

I've gently chased  ;)

Is refreshment to be taken at the Plough after the next travelwatch meeting ?
I can be there if others will be.

I will if not completely knackered.  But it's being a l-o-n-g week ...

... and it is only Thursday.  ;D

I don't think that I will visit the Plough today in view of the limited interest shown by others.
Perhaps some of us could meet in October ?

Glad I checked the forum - just about to leave the event to go there ... will head home then

Sorry about that.
Had I known that you or anyone else were going to the Plough then I would have visited also and enjoyed a pint or two.
Unfortunately I took your earlier reply to mean that a visit by yourself was doubtful, and as no one else had indicated their intention to join us, it seemed likely to be a waste of bus fares/time.

Again sorry to have missed you, and hope to meet in future.

No problem ... I was in doubt until I saw how things panned out.  There's a chance at these things of leaving with a key player to continue discussions on the London train and it's always worth leaving the option of that.

May I offer my apologies for my own inability to attend either the TravelWatch SouthWest meeting or the (hopefully becoming equally traditional) social meetup in The Plough afterwards.

I have to work alternate Saturdays, and as mischance would have it, today was the one I had to work.  ::)

I can, however, hopefully book a day's annual leave for the next meeting(s) in Taunton.  ;) :D ;D