Great Western Coffee Shop

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37306246)

Only 1 in 20. On some branchline journeys I've witnessed the guard just goes and takes a seat and no attempt at ticket sales, despite no ticketing facilities, therefore probably the opposite 1 in 20 having tickets (tickets bought online, return legs etc) as most are walk on day trips

I would be very interested to know the split between
* People intentionally not or underpaying
* People making mistakes and so underpaying
* People who have no opportunity to pay the correct fare
* People who are overpaying

I assume the source is this report, part of the franchise ITT documentation:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533375/swf-ticketless-travel-survey-final-report.pdf
which naturally provides much more detail than the BBC's snapshot.

Obviously one of the major holes in any such survey is the people who do a runner as soon as they see any evidence of either a TOC RPI, or a contracted survey team...

Paul

Doesn't surprise me at all, on LTV services the sight of a guard or Revenue Protection spook is a rare thing indeed these days.

7pm is about the time that SWT open the barriers at some stations so not a complete surprise to me.

I've seen massive revenue loss on the Severn Beach line, despite some clear efforts to address the situation in recent times. Peak time ticket sales kiosks at the busiest stations (as at Filton Abbeywood on the Filton Bank) do not seem to have been tried here. Perhaps an experiment at Clifton Down station?

With advances in technology, I'm sure that big brother will be able to help out the train companies in tracking fare dodgers.

Camera's with facial recognition systems, tracking mobile phone movements, card payments and ticket purchases.

Scary I know!

I agree. For myself, a ticket issuing/checking presence is the best (if not the cheapest) first step in revenue protection. Camera and other technologies will inevitably move from security to revenue protection roles in the future but are still only a cheap substitute for staff at some of our stations.

Whilst it is not feasible to have staff at every station, surely every station should have an 8-late (or more) cafe/coffee shop with the ability to sell or advise on tickets.

Maybe not in every station but I'm sure that this is an avenue that has not been fully explored yet, not forgetting that many stations have a growing footfall.



Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.  ;)

Quite a good idea and it works for bus tickets in many cities. But bus tickets are simpler – these are generally places which operate a one-fare system or a simple zone or similar system. So this system could work for simple local fares but long-distance might be beyond it. Also, would a cafe/shop really be profitable at every station? Is there even room for one? Maybe where it wouldn't be, simple local ticket sales could be 'franchised' to pre-existing shops and cafes?

Yes, and I see so many coffee carts/vans these days I refuse to believe that a train station exists where one cannot exist.

All the train company has to do is offer commission on all rail tickets sold, using a simple App, including a potential 'building block ticket' that could be used to get you on your journey and be updated/replaced by the train conductor on the train  to a full ticket. The App could notify the conductor train company and advise them a customer is aboard, LEGALLY, who needs ticket advise.

That wouldn't be a *simple* app. And what if the customer didn't have a smartphone?

I meant the Cafe owner could have access to a public or private train company app,  and issue tickets via that.

There is no requirement on a customer having a phone, just a means of payment that the train company and cafe owner are happy with.

I suspect the café owner wouldn't be interested - simply because the amount of admin work involved outweighs their available free time (in not serving their own customers / accounting for money taken & all that involves versus 9% of the ticket price.

As the rules stand at the moment, running a ticket agency / selling tickets has a significant annual overhead and training requirement, and in relatively recent years the commission rate payable to the selling agent has been slashed, with no contractual guarantee that I saw that it would't be slashed further.    

Five years ago there were cases that were seriously worth looking at, but with current figures I would be surprised to find more than a handful of places it would make business sense to sell tickets.    Whether the change was made by ATOC as a response to perceived high profits by agencies, or whether it was done to protect the market from being flooded with new businesses looking to sell tickets is a question I have been asked, and I don't know the answer.  As I understand it, there is no sliding scale of commission rates for independent sellers, so no real incentive to set up to service the smaller stations.    We're long past the days where there was a sign at Dilton Marsh Halt that said something like "Buy your tickets from Mrs Smith at No. 9 - 3rd on the right just up the hill".


It's nothing like 9% any more, Chris!

My argument is therefore strengthened then!

I'm still of the opinion that the peak time sales kiosks used in places like Filton Abbeywood can be used more widely, with a bit of management's imagination and efforts. After all, that's what revenue management is supposed to do.

I agree with both of you.

Years ago, there was a lady with a mobile kiosk at Nailsea & Backwell, trying to sell coffee, tea and morning newspapers to Bristol (and elsewhere) commuters.  She gave up, quite understandably, because it just didn't pay its way.

Similarly, the official ticket office on the platform above was, and apparently remains, fairly neutral as to whether it's even worth opening, some mornings.

Even if you combined those two operations, I can't see that there would be any realistic business case.

By the way, the footfall for Nailsea & Backwell for 2014/15 was 450,510.  ::)

Over 260 working days/year, that's just 1750 a day - and it would definitely be fewer than that, because there is definitely a weekend footfall too.

With the advent of the Metro paper, I suspect that well less than 50% would even frequent that facility.

Nailsea & Backwell station has seen a 100% increase in use over 10 years, so what might not of worked 10 years ago, may work now.

The presence of the Strawberry Cafe at the station, would not have helped a commercial competitor though.

But the coffee bicycle at Montpelier is working?

Catering / retail is a tough business; many fall but there may be opportunities.  With ticket sale commission rates set for the big, automated, online sellers such as the Trainline, and a high cost entry and annual cost, it's pretty tough for the small localised personal service to make anything like break even, even if the presence of a ticket seller and advise would generate far, far more rail business than the cost of such provision.

I think you mean the coffee tricycle at Redland.  :)

Which won't be paying any form of business rates/Council tax, so far more likely to be profitable

Kookaburra Coffee appears to be successful at Charlbury, especially now that it's (finally) moved into the station building. But I suspect it's paying minimum wage to its staff, and rail tickets are so complex that - even if you could sort the commission structure out - you need someone skilled to sell them without fouling up. Ultimately, I fear, TVMs are the way forward.


Not so sure one would succeed in Finstock or Combe, let alone Sugar Loaf, Barry Links or Denton... ;)

Erm, sorry, simonw, but are you referring here to the Strawberry Line Cafe at Yatton Station?  :-\