Great Western Coffee Shop

I am currently researching the logistics of a student travelling by train from Bangor to Bristol.

I would really appreciate any tips or suggestions from our very knowledgeable members of the Coffee Shop forum to make that rail journey easier.  ;)

Just in general at this stage: we don't have any specific dates or times of travel, we're simply looking at basic tips, such as "oh, don't go via xxx because ... "  ;) :D ;D

I'm reminded of three conversations

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17084
and
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15843
and
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15499

That's overnight stops and the ban on splitting on sailrail, splitting at Chester, and the Welsh Government 'Express'.

Also seen http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/7-cheap-trains-coach-students-6455015?

Noting that Virgin trains serve Bangor ...

Try and get a 3-car Arriva Trains Wales Class 175 (or if the timings work out one of the loco hauled services) for as much of the journey as you can by changing at Newport, as they're lovely trains with great leg room.  Some fairly cheap advances via that route as well.  I'd recommend that above changing at Brum and probably having a horrible packed Voyager for the first leg of the journey then a much more cramped ATW Class 158 for the rest - especially in summer with the 158s dodgy air-con.

Many thanks for those hints and tips, grahame and IndustryInsider - that's exactly what I was hoping to have, at this very early stage in my planning.  ;) :D ;D

You read my mind!

I might also go so far as to say, timings and ticketing permitting, it may be better to stay on until Cardiff central and pick up the Bristol train there, where it starts - as long as the connection isn't too tight there will be less competition for seats - it is often a 3 car 158 through to Bristol though.

If it is possible for him/her to reach Valley airport, then there can be some pretty good prices on flights to Cardiff airport - from there a short bus ride to Rhoose where an hourly train service takes you to Cardiff central and beyond. Mon-Fri service however.

http://www.citywing.com (http://www.citywing.com)

Capacity permitting, a 175 would be my preference over a Voyager as well. If you were going on the Voyager, at some times the journey planner suggests going via Crewe (potentially more changes, but often faster than the Birmingham-Holyhead class 158 through service which is slightly less-direct as it goes via Shrewsbury and Wrexham). I actually rather like the 158s (although they could do with more legroom like the 175s have), although the air-con is supposedly a bit unreliable (in winter it is the 175s you want to avoid, as they seem to like getting stuck in fridge mode). Both 158s and 175s are way better than the 150s which are liable to turn up on most ATW services as substitutes when they are short of decent trains (another warning, some Sunday services on the S.Wales-Manchester route might be booked for 150s/153s I think).

Although there are 'no specific dates or times of travel', the question didn't make clear whether the travel could be fairly soon. Just in case that is so, I thought it might be worth noting the current Severn Tunnel clousure (and I don't know whether frequent weekend closures of parts of the Cardiff-Bristol route may be necessary during the electrification project too).

My grateful thanks for those additional comments and suggestions, chrisr_75 and Rhydgaled.  :)


Thanks for that added consideration, Rhydgaled, but no: the travel I am looking at is really very general in timing - end / start of term, so nothing until December.  In which case, your observations on the quality / unreliability of the air conditioning in certain classes of unit is also very useful.  ;)

We go up to Bangor quite often as my partner is from Anglesey, so know this route well. We always go via Newport (cheaper prices and much prettier route in the Welsh borders) but note that the connection times at Newport can be very tight, especially if you have luggage, as you usually need to cross over the footbridge for your connecting train (and I wouldn't recommend having to wait an hour in Newport, which we've had to do a few times.  >:(

One of the early morning services from Bangor which returns from Cardiff around 5ish is I think subsidised by the Welsh Assembly to promote business use, and serves some nice food as well as being more spacious, so worth using if it is suitable.

Thank you for your comments, froome.  :)

My student is now planning travel from Bangor to Bristol on Friday 4 November, and we are indeed looking at 'via Newport', in view of the very helpful suggestions made in previous posts here.

Thanks, everyone.  :)

With renewed thanks to all of those who have contributed to this discussion, I can now say that my student has arrived safely in Nailsea.

Travel was today, rather than on Friday as originally planned, but it all went remarkably well: the train left Bangor on time; the connection left Newport on time; that train arrived at Nailsea only a couple of minutes down.

Comments from my student were that the seats were initially uncomfortable, there was no WiFi on ATW, and the trolley seemed to be restricted to First Class (according to an announcement?).  The line-side scenery was apparently great in the countryside, but perhaps less so in the built-up areas.

However, from a teenager, that seemed a remarkably objective view of the journey.  ::)

Eh? ATW don't have first class at weekends, unless they ran a rugby special yesterday and your student was on that. Even so, I don't think First Class on ATW has a trolley, when I did it it was waited service from a buffet.

I don't think any of the Holyhead-Cardiff services have first class on them.

They do usually (but not always) have a trolley service, but it often only operates for part of the length of the journey. I think the trolley service people operate to/from Shrewsbury, and quite often only service either to or from there, not both on the same service (at least that what announcements I've heard have implied).

I believe the 05:33 does ... after that, all the people who have worked so hard that they can afford first class will be long since on their way  :D

It does, although ATW now market it as 'business class' you still need a first class ticket to travel in that carriage I think. As far as I know Gerald* still runs Mondays to Fridays only (excluding bank holidays).

* 'Y Gerallt Gymro' AKA 'WAG Express' AKA 'Gerald' AKA 'Premier Service' AKA 'the Business Class Service'

0533 Holyhead to Cardiff and 1716 Cardiff to Holyhead Welsh Assembly Government sponsored LHCS trains have first class.   None of the others (unit worked) do.    Trolley service should be available between Newport & Holyhead

With my additional thanks to all those here who have contributed their comments on the alleged 'first class only restriction' aspect of that journey, may I offer my apologies for what may well turn out to have been my student's less than precise attention paid to any such 'announcement'.

The wearing of headphones, while playing online games, does tend to result in a less than complete awareness of the realities in the outside world.

 ::) :o :-X

Slightly belatedly, for which I must apologise, may I offer an update here on the return journey, last Saturday?

It, too, all went remarkably smoothly.  Departure from Nailsea was on time, arrived in Newport a few minutes late (but that was no problem, as there was a timetabled 35 minute wait for the connection).  Train to Holyhead via Shrewsbury was fine, so my student arrived safely back at Bangor, and indeed has become something of a fan of the way the railways can work.

CfN.  ;D

The most important question is, did the person making the journey have a lovely time?

https://youtu.be/HmTov3x6vdc

 :P ;) ;D

Many thanks for that particular youtube link, BNM.  ;D

I did do a search for clips of that song, about two months ago, for the benefit of my student, but at the time I could only find a rather fuzzy 'Top of the Pops' version from about thirty years ago.  ::)

For the benefit of those who have not visited Bangor: it is a lovely town, and worth a visit, if you happen to be in the area.  ;)

With the pictures of the university, and the historic images of the railway station accompanying the song on youtube, I thought it an apt addition to the thread.

I briefly visited Bangor a couple of months ago. Only to change buses on a journey from Llandudno to Caernarfon. A rather grey day. So I didn't see much bar the bus interchange. I was on my way to Caernarfon for my first ever visit to the Welsh Highland Railway. However, as soon as I saw the bus to Bangor arriving at Llandudno I couldn't help but hum that Fiddlers Dram tune.  :)

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/rps20161116_225602_zpsqefdqbuj.jpg)

When you're up that way again visiting your student CfN, I highly recommend a trip on the WHR.

As do I! While I've not been on the WHR, I have walked some of the hills surrounding various parts of its route and can confirm it is a particularly nice corner of Snowdonia. WHR also made a very impressive achievement in reopening this line both from an engineering perspective and with property/rights of way issues.

You can also make quite a good (almost) circular day trip travelling Llandudno junction to Blaenau Ffestiniog, then Ffestiniog railway to Porthmadog, followed by WHR up to Caernarfon and then by road transport of some sort back to Bangor and the north wales coast line.

Additional reason not to fly ... airline has gone bust.


according to The Indepepndent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/citywing-wales-cardiff-anglesey-isle-of-man-grounded-storm-doris-a7624121.html)

What took me aback was how much it costs in subsidy.  9,000 pax per year (averaging 8.6 per flight) at a subsidy of around £1m.  So £200 subsidy per return flight. Gosh!   How much rolling stock could ATW lease given an extra £1m per year, and how many passengers would that benefit?

Unfortunately it appears as though they have already found a replacement airline (Eastern).

Half a dozen carriages ... if they were available.

Not that simple, of course ... you have to add staffing costs and network access costs and then take away the income if you're looking to draw up a balance sheet.

Three two-car trains, each with (say) 200 journeys made on it in each peak and a further 300 during the day works out around 180,000 journeys a year - so that's around half a million journeys, or £2 support per journey.  If you can get an income of, say, £3 per journey then the operation is "break even".  But are their lines / services that could attract those extra numbers?

Staffing costs might be limited if the stock was simply used to lengthen existing services.

The Valley Lines in particular are chronically overcrowded, with  many people unable to get on the first service. That's particularly a problem on the line up towards Pontypridd, as if you're travelling beyond Ponty but can't get on, then you have to wait another 30 mins, whereas passengers only headed that far need only wait another 10 mins.

So the benefit may not be additional traffic (although I am sure that would come), rather that instead of conveniencing around 20 return passengers each day, you could be making the daily commute easier for thousands.

I never saw the fares for citywing, but the previous operator (Links Air) were offering flights between £19 and £39.  Far too low for an airline that does not offer any upsells.

I'm taking a Loganair flight next month (for a work trip).  The journey is £75 each way and is about 2.4x the length of the Holyhead-Cardiff route, so the fare is probably similar.  This is also subsidised under a PSO.  Considering train fares (about £50-70 each way) or flights to Edinburgh (about £40 each way), if the flight were any more expensive, my employer would tell me to take the slower route and stay for another night away.  Is the subsidy actually doing anything?  No, since I need to travel there regardless of what transport options are available.  In fact, it's reducing the number of nights I would be spending in a local hotel, reducing the number of times I'll be eating out, etc.

As an aside, it is good to see citywing (or the CAA, or the WAG) arranged for ticket acceptance on the railway.