Great Western Coffee Shop

How early should trains start?

From the Inverness Courier (http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Early-morning-train-service-from-Inverness-07102016.htm?)


I used to joke about the 06:12 off Swindon to Westbury and beyond being too early ... but it's turned out that it wasn't really too early - there as just too long a gap to the return service at the end of the day which reached Swindon at 20:20.    These days, with a number of intermediate trains available, the 06:12 has had at least a ten-fold increase in passengers - and  I'm reminded how, looking way back to Wessex Trains days, there used to be a well used service up to Swindon that left Westbury at 05:40 (it provided the train for the then-equivaent of the 06:12).

The 06:12 is now 'fed' from Gloucester, but when the current Stroud Valley services all become IEPs / London trains, that'll no longer be the case and the feed will probably come once  again from a train at around 05:30 off Westbury.   The early morning might not sound like the most productive time to add a train, but it does make seem to make sense - such trains are extending the use of stock that's already leased and bringing extra passengers to rail, most of whom will be making return trips during the day before the evening peak, when trains aren't overcrowded (15:12 off Swindon on a Friday excepted!)

Just about the earliest first train I know of is the 03:58 from Swansea to London, and the last first train has to be from Newquay to Par.   

Do members feel their current first train is early enough, and if not when would they like an earlier train?

Only interested in Mon-Sat?

I'd certainly like to see an earlier service from Severn Beach/Avonmouth on Sundays.  Current start of service is 0956. An hour earlier and you open the service up to retail workers to get to the city centre,  shoppers to shop before lunch,  and folk travelling further, via a change at Bristol TM, to arrive at their destinations before half the day is over.

I'd surmise there's demand. Pre 10am buses from that part of Bristol to the centre are very well patronised.

That's a really good point. Often extending the service at either end will tend to have relatively little custom, although in this instance, it could make a big difference.  My only question is how attractive is the rail service for retail workers/shoppers given the distance from Cabot Circus/Broadmead to Temple Meads.  I get the feeling that the massive increase in commuters in recent years has been driven by the Temple Quay development.   Would bus still have the edge in terms of frequency and door to door journey time?

It's not just journey options to Broadmead/Cabot Circus. There's Clifton Down for Whiteladies Road and Montpelier for Gloucester Road. Journey times are on a par with the (hourly on Sundays) buses. End to end is hard to quantify. Depends where you live/work.

There is also perhaps some misconception about the actual remoteness of Broadmead from Temple Meads. It doesn't take me more than 10 minutes walk by the river to get to Castle Park, 12 minutes to The Galleries on a good day!

Absolutely not.   Sunday is a massive subject.

TransWilts experience ... first train at 10:30 all year / 08:30 in high summer from Westbury.   At it was 07:30 for 7 sundays in summer 2011.    Tragedy is that the 07:30 and 08:30 get really busy and talking to passengers are going to things which happen all year.   Good to see Sunday morning trains starting on Heart of Wessex all year from December and we could really do with it on the TransWilts.

The 10:30 off Westbury has half its seats taken as it runs into Chippenham.  Run a full round trip 2 or 3 hours earlier an it will be just as busy with a little abstraction from the 10:30 (but we're growing fast enough to stand that) ... AND trains coming back later in the day will be busier too, as most trips are round trips.

Yep, Sunday is a huge topic!

Sunday working contracts need sorting out. Its a 7day railway & shifts ought to reflect that, as in other industries.

They could finish quite early, but yes, arriving into towns in time to get retail workers into work by 10am as a minimum. I'd be happy to be able to get to major cities by 10am, so a train around 0730 would get used by me!

Agree on the start.  On the finish, bear in mind that Sunday afternoon and evening are now the busiest time on the road for the long distance traveller; late long distance trains, and (perhaps reduced frequency) local trains well into the evening would be optimum.

Pax would travel as late as you'd let them in Sunday! Would need steering to travel on a timely basis.

Bear in mind that services could run 0500-0200 if you could run them. Not healthy for drivers....

As a frequent traveller to Stirling in central Scotland I was curious to see a new (to me) Virgin train direct to London. I think its about 5.30am which would get me home just after lunch. While it seemed a good idea my B&B was less keen and I suspect other B&B and smaller hotels might have similar concerns. Check out the night before, no breakfast and trying to quietly move around the house.

So while it seemed a good idea in the end it wasn't that practical. An hour or two later (the other direct train is at 10.30) and I might be interested. I suspect it picks up a lot of its passengers from Edinburgh and the North of England.

I don't think anyone's suggesting single shifts?   

Depends on the B&B.  At our place (http://www.wellhousemanor.co.uk) we're very used to checkouts from 05:00 onwards, for guests flying out from Heathrow to the USA.  They prefer to stay with us an extra night and take taxis at dawn, there being no alternative public transport to an airport that early, rather than a single night airport hotel stay.

Strewth, how much is that early-morning cab?

Around £120, according to Melksham Taxis.  When you think an early morning single from Chippenham to Paddington is £80, and then the Hex on top, it doesn't sound bad value at all.

Even better value if a couple making this journey!

Especially when the cab price is good for 2 or 3 people, and gets them and their luggage hotel door to correct terminal door.

You could stay in a hotel near Heathrow and get a bus/cab to the airport for far, far less than that, with the additional peace of mind of not having to get up at the crack of dawn, worry about traffic etc........and also, having spent £120 to get TO the airport, how do you get home when you come back?

As for earlier trains, there is a definite need for an earlier train to the Westcountry which gets to Plymouth from London before 0900 to allow a full day's business (and the sleeper doesn't count!)- the railways, and the region will lose out until this happens.............as for Sunday trains, well we haven't had those at Taplow for as long as I can remember, and for as long as drivers are allowed to pick and choose whether they work on Sundays, I can't see that, or the bigger picture of earlier/more Sunday trains improving.

Shhh... That would be depriving Grahame of his B&B / hotel room income ;D

........and his 10% from the taxi firm!  :D

I suspect Grahame's guests are going home, so the return journey isn't a problem. Also, you haven't factored in the cost of getting from MKM to wherever the hotel near Heathrow is the previous night, nor the relative cost of a hotel near LHR to one in MKM. And you've also got the inconvience of having multiple journeys by public transport and taxi against one taxi ride and the inconvenience of staying in a different hotel for one night.  I doubt it would be much cheaper, if at all.

Drive to hotel at/nr airport, leave car in hotel car park where you're staying overnight, fly, return, collect car, drive home. Simples. You can pick up hotel + parking deals v cheaply at/near LHR.

I think grahame was using the example of foreign visitors returning home.

Yes.

For 'self', for a day of two and short haul, I agree drive is a good option.   For long haul and long trip, we use either the daily direct coach, direct coach from Chippenham, to Taxi.

Drive is a good option if you can drive.

For me taxi is the last resort. Much prefer train or bus/coach.

As a former driver a taxi reminds me of the past.  >:(