Great Western Coffee Shop

Tonights 1903 has been terminated at Reading due to overcrowding.

Hmm. ::)  Isn't that 19:03 from Paddington usually a 'pick up only' service at Reading?  ???

It's marked as such in the timetable. An additional service is scheduled to run Exeter st David's to Penzance in its exact timings. I do wonder if it's been run non stop to Exeter as there is no other service to get London passengers for Penzance to connect with that time at Exeter.

It is of course the start of half term.

Real times trains (RTT) says

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C41514/2016/10/21/advanced


There is an ECS movement Reading to Penzance running in almost it's path albeit late.

No additional service in RTT for Exeter to Penzance which is showing on journey planner at roughly the times of the ECS on RTT

Sounds like the usual SNAFU. Chaos at the ticket gates at Paddington due to the numbers travelling and insufficient staff, train clearly massively overcrowded with stand offs developing due to people being unable to board, everyone chucked off at Reading & told to board later trains which were just as overcrowded, no information on alternative plans,some people heading towards Bristol in the hope of getting back to the West Country that way although apparently no acceptance in place with Cross Country.  Customers at intermediate stations not being told what was happening and many still stuck now wondering how they're going to get through to Cornwall. It's always the same with this service during normal weeks on a Friday when it's packed to the gunwales, at bank holidays, Christmas, Easter & the start of school holidays it's simply hopeless.GWR know what to expect and do nothing about it....apparently there is to be an "enquiry" about tonight's events, the outcome will be interesting.

Tallow Green, it's all well and good chucking everyone off to board later trains, but there isn't a later train to reach Cornwall tonight. What do those passengers do?

I couldn't agree more, excuse my language but it's a bloody disgrace. My information comes from one of those chucked off at Reading who is heading to Truro for a wedding tomorrow. Complete headless chickens from GWR at Paddington & Reading according to him.

And added to the mix:


Very interesting detective work to sort out what's gone on here ...

The Reading to Exeter ECS has just passed Taunton 92 minutes later than planned, expected to pass Exeter at 2300 and is now running ECS straight to penzance

                                                                2355 Plymouth to Penzance due 02:06
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 21/10/16 23:55 Plymouth to Penzance due 02:06.
This is due to overcrowding because of an earlier cancellation.
Last Updated:21/10/2016 22:26
Due   Station   Status
23:55   Plymouth   23:55
00:40   Bodmin Parkway   00:40
01:02   St Austell   01:02
01:21   Truro   01:21
02:06   Penzance   02:06                                           -which I guess is helpful for those who have managed to get as far as Plymouth.

There is clearly a side to this story we have not heard.  What happened on the 19:03 between Paddington and Reading?

Train Manager assaulted at Reading apparently.

Ah that starts to make sense now.

Train could not proceed with passengers without a Train Manager. 

I hope the TM is OK and that whoever is responsible feels the full weight of the law, however this particular service has been an accident waiting to happen for some time now. Something needs to be done to prevent the likelihood of it happening again - measures need to be taken to address the ridiculous overcrowding on this service every week, the events leading up to it, and the consequences affecting hundreds of other people reoccurring.

GWR are well aware of the issues with this service (especially) on a Friday and have chosen to do nothing about it-no doubt the revenue it generates keeps them happy - perhaps this unfortunate incident will prick a few consciences and catalyse some action.

Just wow. Hope the TM okay but that's appalling.

Surely with today's technology the ticket barriers can be programmed to only accept tickets with a reservation? Make the service reservation-only, somehow the French manage it with the TGV.

Moving away from the specifics of last night, when reports suggested things boiled over, what action(s) would you recommend?   There's a need for any such actions to with franchise requirements, and for them not to solve one issue at the risk of creating another.  Manjana ... new trains, electrification, cascades (and let's not get into an argument here as to how much extra capacity that really provides ... but for this winter?  For the rest of this school year??

I can recall seat regulation tickets on summer Saturday trains out of Paddington, and I think there's a degree of controls for Glastonbury to this day.   Is there a possible something that could be done there, or would regular users of this train (bearing in mind the Newbury stop) who can't be sure when they're headed home be put out?   Would it also be found to be counterproductive in that many people would speculatively reserve seats and the train would end up running with empty places?

Perhaps the 19:12 (FO) from Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads could extend to Paignton.   But then how would you encourage Jo Public off the 19:03 onto the slower and later 19:12?   Taunton on the 19:03 as "pick up only" which would sure as heck upset anyone wanting to travel from Newbury to Taunton .... or a fare break on the 19:12 - but would that make financial sense to GWR, and would XC object because of their share of revenue on Bristol - Exeter?

Edit to add ... silly me ... group save on 19:12 but not on 19:03 just might encourage a few groups of people to drop back, and I suspect the 19:03 is already noted as a "not group save" train

What you do is treat the cause rather than the symptoms - you enforce pick up only at Reading, where there is a service which is known, week on week, month on month, year on year to be hideously and dangerously overcrowded, even more so at holiday times, you restrict ticket sales and manage boarding, and you make sure you have sufficient staff in place to ensure that this is managed effectively.

You publicise that all this is going to happen in advance so that no-one has any excuse to say they weren't warned - sure you will still get a few clowns who will try it on but that's a great deal easier to deal with than the alternative.

What you do not do is sit on your hands, count the additional shekels and hope for the best.

This has been discussed at length in this Forum in respect of this service and others.......and before the usual suspects pipe up with "Ooooooos gonna pay for it then?/it's their own fault if they get on a busy train", GWRs first responsibility, before anything else, is to take all practical measures to ensure the safety of their customers and staff.

Something that could be implemented quite quickly would be to drop the Reading stop completely on certain peak time long distance services imho. During some stages of the remodelling of Reading station the 19.15 to Swansea (another infamously overcrowded service) was non-stopping, ie no pickup, which resulted in a busy, not not horribly overcrowded service.

As TG has said, we have discussed this at length on this forum about enforcing pick-up only at Reading and yes, something should be done about it,,,,,, remove the Reading stop completely? How about those wishing to travel west from Reading which is a large number, and not just from Reading itself but don't forget Reading is the 2nd largest interchange station in Britain outside London, therefore those wishing to head to the South West from other areas as well.

How about removing or better still at least enforcing pick-up at Newbury as well?

As for those heading to Newbury, those from Reading have the 19:21 stopping option, or those from Paddington could be instructed to catch the 19:12 from Paddington arriving Reading 19:37 and then re-time the 19:42 stopper adding on a couple of minutes, to then take them on to Newbury. Delaying the 19:42 slightly does not affect any pathing issues and this service waits at Newbury for 22 minutes before continuing to Bedwyn.

Of course what we all rather would happen is a whole additional train

Having raised a similar topic, six months ago, with a journey through hell (London Pad - Swansea) I feel the only solution is for the train not to stop till Bristol Parkway, or in this case Taunton.

My gripe at the time is that there must be a limit to how man passengers (seated, standing etc) a train can hold and be safe? Just saying that there is no limit and trains are always safer than other forms of travel is not the answer

Extreme overcrowding (with high prices) frays tempers of staff and passengers, and whilst no one wishes anything to happen, crossing your fingers and hoping for the best (GWRs approach) is not tenable.

Restricting access to ticket holders and distance travellers, managing numbers to just over 100% of capacity will always help, but in the end announcing this train will not stop till a distant station and enforcing it will help!

Is it their own fault with this case, as the last train to Cornwall those for Cornwall have no other option (by rail).
I've been swayed by the much cheaper megabus on trips to London. £5 each way easily achieved, guarantee seat, and perhaps an hour difference in travel time.

Having caught the 19:03 many times it is used by a lot of Newbury commuters and while I have not been in a position to count the number who get off there I'd suggest it must be between 100 and 150 judging by those going past towards the exit and footbridge.  I suspect many are attracted by the faster journey time even if that is at the expense of comfort.

Making it pick up only (and enforcing it) at Newbury would greatly assist in my view.

What doesn't help is that there are no 'local/turbo' services between Paddington and Newbury from 16:18 until 22:21, leaving passengers with no direct alternatives other than the longer distance HSTs.

As I have previously remarked, restricting or preferably eliminating the sale of advance purchase discounted tickets for this service would help a bit.

And enforce the "pick up only at Reading" rule.

If that cant be done, then eliminate the Reading stop. I appreciate that this would be inconvenient for those wishing to board at Reading, but feel that this objection is more theoretical than actual.
The 19-03 from Paddington is effectively unusable on busy days for anyone hoping to board at Reading, the chance of getting a seat, even with a reservation, is almost zero and even standing room is doubtful.

Just looking ahead there are currently advance tickets from Paddington to Plymouth available for the 19:03 on the 22nd December at £41.50 and on the 23rd December at £51.50. Super Off peak single is £54.

You could argue that the 17:06 (Westbury service) and 18:05 (Frome service) off Paddington both provide a local service to Newbury, with similar journey times Paddington to Newbury as the 16:18 and 22:21.    Whilst they're also HSTs, they're not going to have the long distance traffic on them.    I will concede that the absence of a 19:0x with broadly the same stopping pattern still leaves the gap we're talking about at around 7 O'Clock

Such an absence of a full set down/pick up call may not be allowed either. The 1903 might have to call at Newbury as a London-West of England Service Level Commitment.

Good thinking

There are currently seven services to the WoE in addition to the Westbury and the Frome service during that time frame.


Never understand some of the idiocies in the SLC but that's for a different topic.

Managing levels of overcrowding is near impossible given the lack of capacity on the lines out of Paddington.  We know this because GWR have previously tried to run relief services but the plug was pulled on these by the DfT or Network Rail.  If you enforce "pick-up only" or bring in new "pick-up only" stops you will just be transferring crowding from one train to another service.  The introduction of new trains will not solve this problem, the problem will only be eased for a few years if passenger numbers continue to increase as they are.  The only way and, cheapest way, to ease the overcrowding is to have more services for Bedwyn and Westbury commencing from Reading utilising the loop near Aldermaston which would spread the load across more services leaving Paddington.  The services leaving Paddington could then run fast Reading to Westbury.

By not enforcing the "pick-up only" at Reading station it could actually be beneficial because the 1903 isn't being swamped with Reading commuters which potentially spreads the load between two services. 

I can't think of much that can be done given the current number of paths, not inconveniencing other passengers, and, most crucially, the current number of trains available.  It's all well and good talking of managing boarding and getting people to use other trains, but in most cases you only rob Peter to pay Paul.

For the future, i.e. in a years or so when they've been introduced, perhaps the recently introduced Fridays Only service at 19:12 to Bristol TM via Parkway would be an ideal service to run as a 10-car service using 2xIET's?  The rear portion could perhaps split off at Reading and form a Bristol service via the B&H calling at Newbury and Westbury and then you could remove the Newbury stop on the 19:03.  All depends how packed solid the 19:12 service is west of Didcot on a Friday evening and you'd still no doubt piss off the Newbury commuters by telling them they're getting home 15 minutes later on a Friday night, and you'd also have to run the 19:42 Reading to Bedwyn turbo a few minutes later, but I can't see many other options.

Longer term, a nice shiny 12-car Class 387 electric could run from Paddington splitting at Reading with eight continuing to Oxford and four to Newbury.  That sort of thing might end up happening when the whole timetable is recast for the new electric and bi-mode services.  A couple of years down the line yet though...

Reduce availability of Advance tickets for 1903 down to bare minimum, allow Super Off Peak tickets to be used on 1803 Fridays only by Plymouth & Cornwall ticket holders, and if the above don't cure the problem sufficiently then introduce boarding controls - say maximum of 50 standing pax from Paddington not holding seat reservation ?

Could you change the rules to void any booked seats not claimed 5 minutes before leaving? Then you could release these seats?

Alleged rather than apparent.

Rail staff sources on other forums allege no assault occurred.

I was just quoting from official industry information feeds, so know nothing more than that.

Not certain how this would help. It seems beyond reasonable doubt that every seat was taken on the train in question, reserved or not.
Under conditions such as these, reservations are of limited use as many simply ignore them. I recall a journey made on Maundy Thursday some years ago, I had booked a seat but found it occupied by someone else who simply refused to move. The staff felt unable to intervene, so being reluctant to give the usurper a good thump, I had to stand to Taunton. Excellent value for £150 ! Never again ! That was some years ago, but reports suggest that it has got worse not better since then.

As previously stated by myself and others - restrict ticket sales, compulsory reservations and managed boarding.

Yes, there should certainly be no cheap advances available.

What about a 20:03 to Penzance with lots of Advanced and Super Off Peaks?

I am reluctant to back compulsory reservation.  A key advantage of the UK railway (over flights and foreign railways for example) is that those with an expensive ticket and who are prepared to stand can get on any train. 

hopefully some stock increases post IEP will allow a carrot and stick approach of high fares only on the crowded train and some bargains on alternative trains. 

Extend the 1945 or 2035 from Paddington beyond Plymouth to Penzance?

Demand/yield management pricing as employed by the airlines might help? Base it on no. of seats sold.

Then, if the train is full (ie, all seats sold), you could end up paying a very high price to stand.

I appreciate this doesn't solve the problem of those who have no reservation, and just rock up expecting to get on, but it seems there are no perfect solutions here  ???

How busy are the 19:45 and 20:35 departures on these 'holiday' Friday's that cause all the trouble?  If there's spare space on them, that might be a possible solution for selected Friday's only, but you'd have to find crew and you'd be looking at roughly 1:30am and 2:30am arrivals in Penzance.  I would imagine the 19:45 is pretty full already and the 20:35 would simply be too late to be of much attraction to the Cornish travellers (how many are typically aboard when it arrives at Plymouth now?).

There are potential issues with train maintenance and availability.  Both those trains are stabled and maintained for the night at Laira depot in Plymouth, so if they went through to Penzance then you would need to make allowances for what they both do next morning and ensure Long Rock at Penzance has capacity to deal with them, as well as diagramming crew of course.

Perhaps worth a try though on selected dates though, to see what difference it makes.  Or at least trying the simpler and more cost effective option of running a Plymouth to Penzance late evening multiple unit train to connect with one of those two trains from London.

When the new trains arrive, perhaps that will give the flexibility to run later trains down to Penzance with a 10-car splitting at Plymouth?

To clarify it's not just "Holiday" Fridays that cause the trouble - the 1903 is seriously overcrowded every Friday, it's just that around holiday times it gets even more inhuman. The challenges around timings/maintenance you highlight are reasonable however I would say not insurmountable.............in any case it cannot be allowed to continue like this - I wonder how much Friday's escapade cost GWR? Perhaps it is a hit in the pocket which will make the difference and galvanise some action. To be honest, this situation has been going on so long with this service I am amazed that no-one has come up with at least some sort of solution to mitigate it - that does not reflect well on GWR.

What frustrates a lot of people is the perception that GWR are just happily sitting back, pocketing the extra revenue by the currently irresponsible operation of this service and doing nothing about it.

I'd be delighted to be corrected of course, if anyone "on the inside" can advise of GWRs plans to improve the situation specific to this service, that does not involve "manana, manana" because as we all know, the capacity increase provided by the new trains does not go anywhere near addressing the overcrowding if demand continues at its current rate.

Clearly the only decent solution is to run more trains.  Will the spare class 68s and mark IIIs not do the job? 
Surely they would be able to keep time west of Taunton or Exeter and could connect with at the 1945 from Paddington even if pathing issues mean that you wouldn't want to run them into Paddington.  If a charter operator can make a small profit and find the stock for a one off train then surely a TOC could for a regular Friday only service. 

Frankly what is the point of privatisation if the capitalists are not finding a solution to these problems.  A for-profit railway might struggle to justify socially necessary but lightly used services but here we have passengers fighting (perhaps literally on occasion) for seats.  If GWR is not up to solving this then DfT should be encouraging an open access operator to meet the demand

It perhaps highlights the fact that there is no simple way of dealing with it given that pretty much all rolling stock is in use and virtually all of it very busy on other services.  The 19:15 Swansea service has always been terribly full in the last few years and I wonder what impact the 19:12 Bristol service via Parkway has had on that?  You could pinch the HST set that works the 17:50 Paddington to Worcester service and run that as a Turbo, but you'd need at least a 5-car to deal with passenger numbers and that results in two short formed suburban services (which are just as full).  Perhaps come next May those units could be released by the extended new electric services?

Having done that though, you need to find a path to run an extra train (hence my suggestion of a 19:12 to Bristol splitting at Reading as it doesn't mean an extra path between Paddington and Reading), or possibly the 19:18 semi-fast to Oxford could be a 10-car IET from next summer with a portion for Oxford and a B&H portion to Westbury splitting at Reading?  Both options will upset Newbury commuters though as they're slower and later than the 19:03.

The longer term solution will be to try and segregate the commuters from the longer distance travellers but until extra stock comes along I can't see any obvious options other than the few half-solutions that we've talked about, and would in all probability have a limited effect anyway.

Even then, free train paths are very scarce and as time goes on I become more convinced that serious consideration needs to be given to Heathrow Express being stopped in the peak hours (and perhaps all day) as that would be four more main line paths per hour straight into the back pocket now that constraints at Reading have been eased considerably.

The Heathrow Express needs to be Axed.  Overpriced vanity service that it is.  They seem to exist solely to rip foreign visitors off with their monopoly on advertising and selling tickets at Heathrow.  It is a national disgrace. Crossrail and the Piccadilly line more than adequately serve the airport from the East. 

Trouble is that they have a access rights until 2023 so we may need to put up with them until then (although I hope Crossrail competition forces them to throw in the towel or at least sell off some paths before then)

It seems that the options for an additional service, bearing in mind rolling stock or pathways is totally out of the
question for a Friday evening.
 I seem to remember in the mid 1970's travelling on a Paddington - Penzance service. It was not a Sleeper Service,
as it was all seated accommodation. Left Paddington about 2300, arriving Penzance about 0800. No buffet, but a wheeled trolley with a tea-pot. Might have been pre-HST days as it was Loco and coaches. Perhaps some of our
mature members could help out with the details.
Point being that if GWR are sincere in their efforts to alleviate over crowding, would not a service be feasible.
Even to the extent of chartering Loco's/Coaches, they have used similar arrangements before.

 

I'm not sure about the 1970s, but I do remember using a "Nightrider" service in the 1980s. That was from Falkirk Grahamston to Peterborough, return on Sunday to Falkirk High (probably due to engineering work) and a walk down the hill to Grahamston.

These trains were all old (though not very old) first class open saloons, so as to give you some prospect of a bit of half-sleep anyway. They were promoted as a cheap option, and not just cheaper than a sleeper, rather than extra capacity. And they did run some rather odd routes.

As I recall it, night trains had almost died out by then and the "Nightrider" branding was an attempt to bring them back and perhaps to pick up some passengers from the long-distance coach market.

To inform myself (and the discussion) I took a look at the down main departures on a Friday evening. 

18:22 Hereford
18:25 Heathrow
18:30 Weston-super-Mare
18:35 Plymouth
18:40 Heathrow
18:45 Swansea
18:47 Cheltenham Spa
18:50 Oxford
18:55 Heathrow
19:00 Bristol
19:03 Penzance
19:05 Henley on Thames
19:10 Heathrow
19:12 Bristol
19:15 Swansea
19:18 Oxford
19:22 Hereford
19:25 Heathrow
19:30 Weston-super-Mare
19:40 Heathrow

I seem to remember the service from Pad to Plymouth I used it in 1974 on my first Railrover trip .

Even into the late 80's an additional Friday Only 23XX Pad to Penzance relief (seating only) operated as the Night Riveria couldn't cope with demand.
1903 should be Advance tickets in very limited no's to Plymouth & Cornwall only , also an easement on Friday 1803 for Super Off Peak ticket holders perhaps ?

No spare spaces there as you can see, unless you move some of the Heathrow's forward a couple of minutes so that the odd five minute gaps become three minutes.  In practice that gives even less chance to recover from delays and whilst three minute departures might work, when you factor in arrivals as well it becomes virtually impossible to path everything efficiently.

Are those all the trains that Paddington can send out?

It is astonishing after all these very expensive station upgrades only Reading has added significant capacity.

If Paddington cannot deliver more trains, then it has to deliver longer trains on these popular routes, why not 14/15 carriage trains that only stop at fixed stations and split in tow along the route.

What about headways between each train ?

It's only the trains that use the main lines.  As phile states, the limiting factor is now the headways needed.  IEP will provide some improvement with 9/10 carriage trains.

My hope is that a small number of HST's are retained for peak days and special events, of which there are numerous throughout the year.  They could even be leased to other operators when available. Though I suspect I will probably be disappointed.

Well thats about a 3.5 minute headway continuous for a single hour.  Thats pretty good going for the Down Main thats signalled for a three minute headway and allows for absolute minimum perturbation.

I agree with your hope - the challenge will be keeping staff with the traction knowledge and ensuring servicing can still be carried out.  That's even before someone pays for retention toilets and plug doors.

Are most passengers for Cornwall from Paddington or further west? Could a Cornwall service turn round at
Reading instead of Paddington?

Overcrowding on certain West of England down services has been an issue for as long as I can remember but, anecdotally, seems to be getting worse. I can't believe GWR don't know which trains are concerned. It is a problem that requires a quick fix, even if only for a relatively short period until the new trains arrive, and I am convinced that 'passengers with reservations only' services, with appropriate boarding controls at PAD, is the way forward.

But by having a "reservation only train" means those without reservations are going to pile onto the next service meaning you'll be back to square one.

I don't think you would be, because it's the last Cornish service of the day & one of the main problems with the 1903 (in particular) is that it picks up a lot of commuter traffic to Reading/Newbury - take that out of the equation and those commuting passengers would spread out amongst other local and HST services before/after the 1903.

Alternatively for a quicker (instant if there is the will) fix just manage the boarding and don't let Reading passengers board the 1903 - is that beyond the wit/capability of the ticket gates/staff?

Interesting as all this discussion is, could someone with contacts in GWR obtain an official response?

Official response to what? Whilst there are some very helpful contacts with GWR people, I don't think they are beholden to the Coffee Shop to provide a comment, let alone an official response. If a passenger affected complains directly to them, then that would be a different matter. 

It's a great idea, but having seen how deeply nasty people can be when they can't do something which they believe they have some god given right to do, controlling boarding is probably more trouble than it's worth, especially if most of the problem is gone at the next stop or two.

Best bet is just to remove the Reading/Newbury stops completely. It worked an absolute treat for the 19:15 to SWA during the Reading remodelling and it's not like there aren't other services available for commuters. Anyone wishing to travel west at that time from Reading (not many in my experience of travelling to S.Wales, certainly in comparison with the numbers joining at PAD, but I accept that could be different for Devon/Cornwall) can pick up an earlier westbound train and change to the Devon/Cornwall service further down the line or travel into Paddington. Some sort of easement for advance or off-peak tickets to Devon/Cornwall on the earlier services might assist this.

Not sure why the additional capacity has to necessarily start at Paddington.  Start it at Reading or Swindon if Paddington isn't up to the job. 

Agreed, John R.

This is a forum for passenger discussion and not a conduit for inputs to GWR.   You / we shouldn't expect them to answer a question that we haven't asked them.    Having said which, if any member has raised this issue with GWR, it would be most useful if they could share the answer received here.

A while ago, we had a "Meet the manager" session with Ben Rule, a director of GWR, here on the forum and it was a great success; perhaps another such session should be considered?

Where issues come up that have a significant bearing on the work I do for the TransWilts CRP / for passengers and potential passengers on that line, I do have access to those "contacts within GWR" that Pb_devon mentions, and can often obtain background or official information to aid the discussion and explain issues - and at times help formulate changes for the common good.   However, evening departures from Paddington to the west country are outside my geography.   As well as individuals asking questions more "officially" there are other CRPs, rail user groups, etc ... and safety nets such as Transport Focus too.

As you may know Ben Rule now works for Cross Country, so you'd need to find another willing director.   ;)

" Dear sir, I was sorry to hear that on your recent journey you suffered crowding followed by the train terminating before the advertised destination.
Our services are very popular and can become crowded at popular times, we recommend that you book a seat if travelling at busy times. Seat reservations are free of charge when purchasing your ticket.

As regards the train terminating short of the advertised destination, this was due to the sudden and unexpected in-availability of a safety critical member of train crew. Your safety is our highest priority at all times and we would never run a train if it was not safe to do so.
Alternative transport, including additional services was arranged at short notice. I regret the delay that you suffered whilst awaiting this.

GWR are investing billions of pounds in a large fleet of new state of the art electric trains. These will offer faster and more reliable journeys, with millions of extra seats. The first of these new trains will enter service within about 12 months, and offer a step change in passenger comfort with more seats, an electronic seat reservation system, and an enhanced at seat catering offer available to all passengers.

Thank you for your recent communication, passenger views are important to us, and assist in further improving the overall passenger experience."

Just to save them the trouble, I have written the letter for them! ;D

Perfect response broadgage!

Even getting in the perpetual lie that it is GWR making the capital investment.

I have submitted the following to GWR which I think covers most of the points we have made in the discussion and will advise when (if) I get a response;

I am writing in respect of the 1903 Paddington to Penzance service on Fridays. Rather than focus on the specific events of 21st October where the service was terminated at Reading, I would like to enquire as to what measures are being considered to mitigate the regular and extreme overcrowding which is a feature of this service every Friday, and specifically so around holiday periods. In answering my enquiry, please bear in mind that I do not wish to receive a standard cut and paste response citing new rolling stock over the next couple of years etc, I would like something addressing the issues around this service which have been ongoing for years.

1) The service is supposed to be pick up only at Reading on Fridays. Why is this not enforced and why are Reading customers allowed to board? What is being done to address this, in terms of programming the gateline and or instructing staff accordingly?

2) Why do you not use boarding management to ensure the safety and wellbeing of customers on such a service which is well known to be hideously overcrowded? (please do not cite regulations stating that there is no limit to the number of people who can be safely carried).

3) Why not make this service reservation only, with perhaps a small number of additional people being allowed to board?

4) Do you restrict the number of "cheap" Advance purchase tickets on this service? If not, why not?

5) What consideration has/is being given to removing stops at Reading and Newbury on this service on Fridays? (Bearing in mind that there are numerous alternatives)

6) Can the 1945 and/or 2035 services to Plymouth be extended to Penzance on Friday to relieve pressure on the 1903? If not, why not?

7) Where the last service of the day to Cornwall is cancelled as it was (at Reading) on the 21st October, what is your contingency plan for getting people home "Long distance"?

Finally, as an organisation committed to excellent customer service, I am sure that GWR management are actively pursuing measures to mitigate the situation on this service so please detail these if they are not covered by my questions above.

I look forward to your response.

I am curious to find out how accurately broadgage has predicted the response that TaplowGreen will (may) receive?!  ;D

According to my 1974/5 timetable, there were up to four overnight services between London and Penzance on weekdays:

• A 23:35 train ran on Fridays only from 14th June to 27th September with seated accommodation only arriving Penzance at 08:35.  That must be the equivalent to the one you remember Henry? 
• There was also a 23:45 arriving at 09:05 which had sleeper accommodation as far as Exeter and seating only beyond.
• And then there was the 'proper' sleeper at 00:55 arriving at 07:50. 
• Finally, there was the rather curious 19:30 from Paddington which terminated at Plymouth at 23:48, except on summer Friday nights when it sat at Plymouth for three hours before continuing on to Penzance for an 05:07 arrival.  That would certainly have been a test of stamina!

By contrast, the last proper through daytime train was the 17:30 'Golden Hind' arriving at 23:10.  That didn't stop at Reading, so the last direct day train from Reading was at 16:03 (17:26 on Fridays).

Travel patterns have certainly changed immensely since those days!

Might South West Trains be interested in capitalising on this extra demand by running a Waterloo-Plymouth/Penzance service Friday on evenings?   

Is there any reason to suppose that SWT have any more capacity to run extra trains out of Waterloo on a Friday Night that GWR do at Paddington?

Cracking idea......the old Southern Line? My Father used to do that trip back & forth to Plymouth many years ago when he was a student in London.

I reckon SWT would jump at the chance - and a bit of real competition may make FGW raise their game!

Given suitable rolling stock, I see no reason why some of the current waterloo to Reading services could not be extended to say Taunton. The present DC electric trains would not be suitable of course.

I doubt that any such extended services would be very popular as they would be very slow between Waterloo and Reading, and cant realistically be accelerated as they exist primarily to serve the many intermediate stations.

The other option would be a new service from Waterloo into "western" territory, perhaps via Salisbury. Given some new or cascaded diesel trains, that should be doable.
Indeed, many services ran from Waterloo during engineering work.

For any such scheme to work, a relatively small number of maximum length trains would be needed. A few short trains wont provide much extra capacity, and I doubt that paths could be found for more than a few services.

   They already run services from Waterloo to Exeter Central.......just over 3 hours.

So, 3h 25m or so from Waterloo to Exeter, then a further three hours to Penzance.  They have no spare stock (they withdrew from Plymouth/Paignton last decade so they could make better use of their diesel stock) and even if they did the number of paths out of Waterloo is just as restricted as it is out of Paddington.  In the unlikely event a path did become available at around 7pm, or you extended the existing 19:20, then you'd be looking at an arrival of somewhere between a 1:30am-2am at the earliest.  Can't see that being particularly popular, and I very much doubt SWT (or whoever gets the next franchise) would be jumping at the chance to operate it!

A much more likely 'solution' would be to extend one of the later GWR Plymouth trains.

I recall on a Christmas Eve at Paddington many years ago that all tickets were checked prior to boarding a Cornwall service.
Anyone with short haul destinations (season tickets included) was refused boarding in order to allow people going all the way to stand a chance of getting home for Christmas.

But the Waterloo Reading Services are already busy in the peak and I assume so are the Salisbury and Exeter Trains, at least for the first part of the Journey. 

Isn't the 19:20 WAT-EXD just as overcrowded as the 19:03 PAD-PNZ ??  I have used it a dozen times in the last year and on each occasion it was standing room only at least to Basingstoke and on a couple of occasions to Salisbury.

We just have to face it.  At the moment there is not enough track capacity to have any extra services to the anywhere out of London at peak times.

Enforcing pick-up only seem the best option to me. However, I know that Reading westwards may be a big flow, but if pick-up only cannot be enforced then some trains will not be able to call there otherwise every long distance service becomes a Reading commuter train.  Crowding long distance passengers out for the first 30 miles or so of a 200 mile journey, makes no sense at all, unless there is an equally large number joining at Reading to go west.

If commuter stops are left out then provide a Reading to Westbury stopper service and Reading passengers to the west can then join the train at Westbury.  No its not ideal, but without more track capacity or even longer trains what else can be done.

From Swindon we use long distance trains for local journeys to the west, but then we have no choice since we have not been allowed any local trains since 1965, except for the brief golden period when the Oxford Bristol Trains ran. 

Agree 100% re: paras 2 and 3. I have had an acknowledgement of my enquiry so look forward to the response.......in hope rather than expectation!  :)

It's worth noting that the Reading call on the 1903 from Paddington may, like the Newbury call, also be a franchise Service Level Commitment for services to the West of England.

Restricting sales of discounted advance tickets would help a bit, as would enforcing the "pick up only" rule at Reading.

What is needed however is a very substantial increase in capacity. The IEPs will help a bit PROVIDED THAT they are without fail always full length on busy services. It wont take many  half length ones on a busy day to cause worse overcrowding than that recently reported.

Likewise the two new Crossrail platforms will provide a bit more capacity.

Re signalling will allegedly provide more paths, but recent experiences with new signalling are not encouraging, and anyway the signalling work is deferred.

The only way of conveying significantly greater numbers of passengers would seem to be longer trains.

1) order more IEPs
2) modify these and the existing fleet to run in multiples of up to 18 or 20 vehicles.
3) restore to use the very long platform at Paddington.

A single very long platform should be able to accommodate at least 5 trains in the evening peak, and since each train will be of twice the capacity, an extra 5 paths have in effect been provided.

Possible services could include 18 car from Paddington, rear 9 detached at Reading, front 9 for Plymouth.
Or 18 car from Paddington, to divide at Taunton, front 9 principle stations to Penzance, rear 9 all stations to Penzance.

All this would entail substantial expense, but we cant carry on forever with a growing population and infrastructure sized for 100 years ago.

How would this work at Reading? You couldn't get 18 on the platform there - so you'd either need to stop with part of each set on the platform and use selective doors or "slip" the rear portion outside the station.  Or are you suggesting longer platforms at Reading and other stations as needed to Taunton?

Moving block signalling is one future solution for line capacity but this does't overcome the constraints caused by station and platform capacity which then become the 'pinch' points :P

I would suggest that as the front portion is for stations beyond Reading, that MOST of the front portion need not be platformed, perhaps only the last couple of vehicles of the front portion, and the entire rear portion.
Taunton already has very long platforms that would accept most of an extra long train, with perhaps just the rear two and the front two not being platformed.

Would that actually work in practice? Wouldn't the front of the train then be out of section and quite possibly be fouling something?

No realistic extra slots (short term) out of Paddington.  No realistic chance of lengthening any 8+2 trains.

The 19:05 to Henley is an interesting train on the 'fast' and I wonder how long and busy it is on a Friday; are all the regulars on a POETS day, or do they work late to make sure they leave clean desks for the weekend?   It calls at Twyford at 19:38, goes up and down to Henley, then runs empty to Reading.    While it's on the branch, another train sits in the bay ....

Let's say the 19:05 carried on to Reading and Newbury on a Friday, then ran empty from there to the depot.  19:03 become pick up only at Reading and at Newbury.  The Henley branch train makes an extra round trip.

Possible issues.   It might be that the 19:05 is already stuffed with people out of Paddington.   And it might be that it's political dynamite to suggest removing a through Henley service on a Friday, even if it's going to happen anyway with Crossrail.

The Henley Branch Users Group Twitter account (@HenleyBUG) often tweets from the 19:05 as it would appear that it's quite often 3 cars instead of the scheduled 5. Indeed that appears to have been the case all this week and tonight it was "incredibly cramped on board".

So replacing it with an IEP or 387 with a stop at Twyford would provide lots of spare capacity. 

Observed as it pulled into Reading last night (from rear of 19:00 Bristol train on adjacent platform).   Certainly a good number of people standing (but then it was just about to stop), but not "rammed up the aisles".   Very rough guess - 120% in standard.

P.S. Bristol train was in reverse formation ... I have not come into the money  ;)

...................no reply as yet (.....I'm sure you're all on the edge of your seats!!!  :D )

Forget that - around 150% off Paddington tonight on the 19:12 / people opening doors but then unable to board as departure time came. There was space in the centre of carriages, mind. Lots off  - about a third of the passengers - and a few on at Reading - down to around 110% in coaches C and D.

That's exactly the problem isn't it. A third of the passengers travelling only for the first stop on a service that is trying to provide capacity far beyond that. Yet some people can't even get on.  The sooner we can have a few 12 car 387's soaking up the capacity to Reading the better.

On Wednesday I was on the 17:42 Paddington to Cheltenham.  A peak hour service that was nicely full (No spare seats, but very few standing).  Why?  Because it was first stop Didcot!

Indeed - a train I will regularly head for - and it also usually goes from Platform 1 just like the Royal Train used to...

Affecting a regal air there, Bob?  :P

Always had illusions of grandeur but there is something special arriving or departing from Platform 1.

No gateline, or more importantly, gateline staff on P1. That's why I like it.  ;D

Indeed, and back in the good old days, the down Golden Hind departed from platform 1, in order that one might relax in the first class lounge, and then stroll across the platform to the door of the Pullman restaurant which was almost opposite the first class lounge.
Platform 4 latterly though :(

I recall the outrage one night when the Golden Hind left from a double digit platform, near the underground.

Closest you will usually get now broadgage is stumbling off the 12:56 Pullman from Plymouth and into the lounge - that often arrives on Platform 1.

I was on the 19:12 as well and it didn't seem particularly overcrowded (although there were standees) in the middle of B when leaving PAD - and probably worth mentioning for the mental picture of others that the train was in reverse formation. At least three people who did have reserved seats had sat in the wrong ones though which didn't help things around departure time as the rightful owners turned up. This didn't seem to be because of the formation as they were simple misreads of seat numbers or the wrong carriage.

One useful thing - it could be boarded well in advance.

From the timetable in change in December, the 18:03 London Paddington to Penzance will also call at Newbury each evening.

.............which reminds me - 2 weeks now, still no reply.

Tis a little early yet.....
(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww255/PhilWakely/gwrresponse_zps8sko7rza.jpg)

So more commuters on GWRs longest distance service then...

If any long distance train leaves Paddington via Reading/Newbury and is more than %120 full, for example Train Manager is not able to walk through the train then at some point like Taunton/BPW, GWR should give a £50 GWR voucher to all passengers with a Paddington ticket.

This will focus GWR and DfT attention.

...............I am just picturing certain members of this forum already starting to twitch & froth at the mouth having read this......building up to an explosion of "OOOOOOOOOS GONNA PAY FOR IT THEN?"  ;D

Is there not another HST about 3 mins later, the semi-fast that also stops at Theale and Thatcham?

Even those that had a seat?

Yes.

If you are on a long journey, with no access to toilets, refreshments then after a certain period of time, no mater whether seated, stood in the corridor or vestibule then compensation should be paid.

Being crowded on a 15 minute local train on a journey cost <£4 is a one issue, but being a travel prisoner for several hours is another.

GWR/DfT have done nothing about capacity planning on the GWML until recently and arguably too late. Crossrail will alleviate pressure to Reading and longer trains will help, but until GWR restrict access to busy trains make certain routes all reserved then this problem will not go away.

   3 weeks and counting, no reply.....

The secret is to make the cost to the ToC significant so that they are persuaded to sort it out and avoid paying the "fine". It is amazing how providing the right incentives will change behaviour and result in problems being solved that were previously too difficult

.......................4 weeks............ >:(

....................5 weeks.............. >:( >:(

Maybe if you were to ask Mr Ollie ?.

Have you considered giving customer services a call to ask why you've had to wait so long and have received no correspondence apologising for the delay in the meantime?  After all it's getting on for twice as long as you were told you might have to wait.

I know that you shouldn't need to be have to do that, and the longer you wait the more your root point about GWR not caring is emphasised - but I feel the points you raised and the questions you asked were important enough to receive a detailed personalised reply to, as you requested.

Judging by his tweets today - Ollie has moved on.  Today was his final shift.

Good Luck to you Ollie in what ever you do next and thanks for all your help and advise .

According to his twitter he is going to learn to drive a train!

I'd read a suggestion that an unnamed useful person to the forum was leaving his customer facing role. I had put two and two to get the right answer then!

Tried three times.....first two I was kept waiting for so long I gave up, third time I spoke to someone who didn't seem to understand English.

What did they say?

A load of flannel about how busy they are.....to be honest, GWR "customer service" is barely worthy of the name these days, so whilst I'm disappointed, I'm not surprised.

Maybe someone higher up the GWR food chain needs to make the connection between rising dissatisfaction with their poor service and their customer service teams being overwhelmed and take action accordingly.

Is this a side effect of outsourcing? The outsourcing staff have little concern for another company's customers? Staffing is clearly inadequate. To the OP it took them 12 weeks to respond to me, so you've a good 6-7 weeks longer to wait at that basis!

............6 weeks (and two more phone calls).............. ::)

.........almost 7 weeks in we have some progress (well, sort of) - after being told it was likely to take another 3 weeks to get a reply, I emailed Hopwood directly and have just received this.........

Dear Neil
I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your email to our Managing Director, Mark Hopwood.

Thank you for writing and we will respond to you as soon as possible.

Kind regards
Kellyann Steer| MD Correspondence |Great Western Railway  

"MD Correspondence" is certainly a grand title, let's see if it carries any influence!!!  :)

..............odds on a reply this side of 2017 anyone?

TG there is a discussion thread on railforums about GWR (non) response times. Capita took over the customer service running from serco  and relocated the service centre from Plymouth to Runcorn in the week of the Paddington Turbo Spad. Capita were reportedly unprepared and due to the spad and resultant influx have never got back on track due to that poor preparation. People on rail forum thread reporting still waiting responses from August.

I was going to suggest an email to Mark Hopwwod might well be in order.

GWR may have delegated/outsourced responsibility, but they still have accountability.

Capita is very often written with an "r" inserted after the first letter, there are reasons for this  :)

Indeed, but unless you take the steps to email hopwood and friends they don't deal with any of it themselves.
Crapita are making Serco look good!

I think the rail companies themselves should be handling passenger complaints not out sourcing to someone not associated with the company. Why should they care?

....and they are dealing with all of TPE and Hull Trains stuff as well, at the same location

Hooray. I've had a "we're sorry for the delay" letter from GWR, which includes

        To help put things right a cheque for £60.00 will be sent to you, to cover the cost of your journey. This will be with you soon.

This relates to a journey that I made on August 15, when a bridge bash meant that the 17:22 Paddington - Hereford was cancelled beyond Moreton-in-Marsh and we ended up with road transport.

Four months...

I'll report back when the cheque arrives.

May I suggest that you avoid holding your breath waiting for the cheque.  ;D

On the other hand, why couldn't the writer of that letter have simply enclosed a cheque with their letter?  :o

In one of my previous employments, working in the complaints team of a large organisation, I would have strolled over to the accounts team and asked them to issue a cheque for the relevant amount, payable to the complainant, so that I could tuck that into the envelope with my letter of (genuine) apology.  :-X

And we didn't (weren't allowed to!) take four months to get to the stage of even writing such an apology letter.  :o

What you have to remember though is that GWR customer Service has gone from crap (Serco) to Crapita.

It's no wonder one of the brightest stars of GWR Customer Service (well known to many on this forum) has jumped ship. I suspect he's not alone.

Agree completely.

Agree completely

I have had a slightly different experience today. I have received a compensation cheque for a journey in the summer. The accompanying letter starts; "Further to your recent contact with us"!! My claim was sent the day after the delay

My former employer, financial insdustry, we had a maximum of 8 weeks or we had to pay an automatic fine.

We also when agreeing to compensate or refund, could raise a BACs form, through a support central form on the intranet. It submitted to the cash office, who processed BACs requests at 1300 daily.

There's a public (world) post here on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157721205740459&set=a.10150766180745459.724587.566580458&type=3&theater).  I am noting that a career and role change may sometimes be triggered by a desire to leave something behind, but that's often outweighed by a desire to take on new challenges ... no assumptions should be made about any one individual.

Still no reply................and I had an awful nightmare last night, I dreamed I was going to catch the 1903 to Plymouth tonight............can you imagine what it's going to be like???

I assume it's pretty futile to ask if any extra services to the Westcountry are being laid on tonight?



 

Westcountry services though cornwall yesterday were full and standing. Struggled to get to the door at destination

Looking at RTT it seems that GWR are running 3 additional services today as follows:

1Z78 1033 PAD - PNZ
1Z93 1236 PAD - PLY
1Z85 1436 PAD - PLY

I'm already getting a lot of "out of office" messages so it's probably a sensible day to redistribute resources this afternoon / evening.   Who knows - the 19:03 may not be quite so bad tonight with some traveling earlier, and others perhaps waiting until tomorrow as they don't have to rush back late on Sunday (come to think of it - they can't rush back late on Sunday!)

Or early on Monday.

I also expect the lifting of restrictions today is also a deliberate decision to spread the super/off-peak load across the whole day.

Three extra daytime trains is a good move by GWR using stock when it available - we all know that later in the evening it isn't.  I see that all three are healthily reserved.  We'll wait and see what the 19:03 looks like tonight.  I would imagine there will be a few less commuters using it as a reasonable percentage won't have gone in today or will be leaving work early (or possibly staying late for post work drinks) - more so than on Maundy Thursday for example.  And 'plymothian' makes a valid point about spreading the load. 

That being said I doubt it will be empty!

Cheque arrived yesterday (December 22).

The 17:06 PAD to Westbury became a Turbo and only ran as far a Newbury tonight in a planned move presumably brought about by the HST set being used on one of the three West Country additions.  Haven't spotted any other alterations.

There was an interesting comment / feedback when that happened on "Meet the Manager" evening.    The 17:06 is a train I knew quite well ... rammed to Twyford, busy into the east of the Kennet Valley but frankly pretty thin as it gets further west.    As an HST making numerous calls, its station dwell times mean that there's another train only 10 minutes behind it by the time it reaches Westbury, so the thin loadings aren't lack of demand but rather the provision of something 20 minutes faster just behind. My Advent Quiz question on 18th December was taken from the 17:06 in the days that it didn't call at Westbury, but served Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon instead.

I suspect it was a good call to use a turbo for this service tonight in anticipation of different flows in the lead up to  Christmas.

I didn't see or hear of any major problems today/tonight, busy trains and the odd hiccup but nothing too bad.  TG's favourite 19:03 ran on time until picking up a 15 minute delay near Castle Cary following a track circuit failure.

Typically, the management were out today to see what all the fuss was about.  As the 19.03 and various other trains were lightly loaded, the conclusion is there's no problem.

Good to hear it went well and everyone got away safely (at least no-one was held up more than a few minutes by GWR rail problems).    I wouldn't like to "second guess" where loading falls on the lead up days to Christmas, especially as it probably varies each year depending when in the week Christmas falls - and it's good and right that it be monitored as a learning experience. 

Good news that the 3 extra services took some of the pressure off the 1903 and others which are normally so ridiculously overcrowded - let's hope that GWR learn the lesson and we see similar strengthening on other known dates such as Maundy Thursday etc.

Christmas is always a difficult one to predict.  In essence you need seven different strategies as depending on what days of the week Christmas Eve and the 27th fall on radically alters the travel patterns of those who are spending Christmas away.  Some years it is spread nicely and others it is concentrated on a particular day, or part of a day.

Maundy Thursday is much harder to deal with, as although it's the same every year, it's the perfect storm of most people wanting to go away after work on the Thursday, yet there still being a very large contingent of commuters wanting to go home at the same time.  In other words I don't think the three extra trains during the day would have had so much benefit on a typical Maundy Thursday, but let's hope more effort is made to run at least one or two additionals during the day and perhaps extend the 19:45 to PNZ as has been suggested.

..............well, after almost 3 months, here it is folks!!!


Ref: GWRR161025BQJB
 
Dear Sir

Thank you for your email of 25 October 2016. I am so sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We recently migrated our call centre from one location to another and its created a bit of a backlog for us whilst the new work flows and processes settle down. We are all working really hard to get up to date. I also understand that you have written to our Managing Director about this matter.
I appreciate your frustration caused by regular crowding on our 1903 London Paddington to Penzance service on Fridays and I sincerely apologise for the discomfort you have experienced. I have contacted managers from the relevant departments to pass on your concerns and also asked that they answer your seven specific questions. Please find their responses below.

1.     The service is supposed to be pick up only at Reading on Fridays. Why is this not enforced and why are Reading customers allowed to alight? What is being done to address this, in terms of programming the gateline and or instructing staff accordingly?
 
The service is booked to pick up only at Reading in order to try to reduce the number of people on board leaving Paddington. It is though, unfortunately the case that some customers will be aware that it stops at Reading and may catch it anyway. We do try to enforce this but there are only very limited actions we can take to do this. We do instruct gateline colleagues to advise customers not to board and our train managers are also advised to do the same.  In practise we know that by not advertising Reading as a stop this reduces the number of Reading bound customers on board by more than 90% so it is very successful.

2.     Why do you not use boarding management to ensure the safety and wellbeing of customers on such a service which is well known to be hideously overcrowded? (please do not cite regulations stating that there is no limit to the number of people who can be safely carried).
 
The application of full boarding controls would likely cause significant delays given the turn around times of trains at Paddington. Whilst trains on Friday evenings are busy we have amended the timetable in recent years to add additional capacity and changes to our rolling stick in the coming year will help this further. 

3.     Why not make this service reservation only, with perhaps a small number of additional people being allowed to board?
 
There is not a straight forward answer to this point. Making this service ‘reservable only’ presents a number of logistical challenges for operational colleagues to manage, this could lead to further disruption for customers trying to board and colleagues identifying who can/cannot travel.  We do not place restrictions on overbooking, so in theory customers can still walk up and purchase a ticket on the day irrespective of the amount of advanced purchase tickets bought – this is linked to your fourth question.  

4.     Do you restrict the number of "cheap" Advance purchase tickets on this service? If not, why not?
 
Yes - Cheaper AP fares are restricted on this service Monday to Friday. Availability of advanced tickets is linked to customer demand, so on services such as this the more expensive fares are only available.

5.     What consideration has/is being given to removing stops at Reading and Newbury on this service on Fridays? (Bearing in mind that there are numerous alternatives).
 
The Reading stop is required as per our “Service level Commitment”.  The Reading stop has been made pick up only. The Newbury stop is used by customers who travel each day and a direct alternative would need to be provided.
6.     Can the 1945 and/or 2035 services to Plymouth be extended to Penzance on Friday to relieve pressure on the 1903? If not, why not?
 
The line is closed after the passage of the last train in Cornwall.  That having said, a service which would arrive at stations in Cornwall in the early hours of the morning is not likely to be attractive.  
 
7.     Where the last service of the day to Cornwall is cancelled as it was (at Reading) on the 21st October, what is your contingency plan for getting people home "Long distance"?
 
If the 19.03 is cancelled we will take people to Plymouth on the next available train and provide onward road transport from there.
 
Once again, I’m sorry for the problems you have experienced recently and thank you for contacting GWR.
Yours sincerely

I think that's a reasonably comprehensive answer. And maybe that explains why it has taken so long to arrive (but that is no excuse).

My elderly parents are booked onto the 1903 tomorrow, with heavy suitcases, and New Zealand induced jetlag.  In the collective experience of this forum, are there any tips for helping them 'beat the scrum'.  They will be coming in from Heathrow on the HEX.

Many thanks one and all.

If they are in any way infirm, then they could ask for help in boarding, maybe, particularly given the amount of luggage they have.

Worth booking some assistance at Paddington perhaps, assuming you have sufficient time at this stage?

Real time trains http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced) tends to have the planned departure platform and is worth keeping an eye on, but bear in mind it can be completely wrong if it all goes belly up

I hope everything worked out OK for your parents - I guess it was likely to be pretty much the "quietest" Friday evening of the year taking into account the time of year so hopefully the experience wasn't too bad.

They were exhausted by Par so only had a chance to chat this morning.  Assisted travel idea worked a treat, and they were comfortably seated with suitcases stowed before the platform was announced so spot on.  Many thanks for the idea, and to the staff involved at GWR.

Post #3 on the first page of this now lengthy thread, suggests that an enquiry was to be held into the 19-03 service on October 21st.

Does anyone know if an enquiry was held, and if so with what result.

The response I got to my correspondence with GWR (after almost 3 months) is on page 11 of this thread, I didn't get any information back regarding the enquiry......and the thought of asking again and waiting another 3 months only to be (probably) told that it's an internal document not for public information has me gnawing my own leg off.

Another one left "until the next time" by GWR no doubt, unless someone in the forum has an internal contact from whom it may be obtained more swiftly?

Yes, I had read the reply that TG received and posted on here, I was wondering if any more formal enquiry took place, and if so with what results ?
Rather than simply a very late reply to one (of a great many) aggrieved passengers.

....as a postscript to this, those who have followed this riveting tale from the beginning will be aware that I waited almost 3 months for a reply from GWR.

Out of the blue on Friday I received an email from a senior First Group bod by way of apology, and telling me that they were sending me a little something to make up for it.

Yesterday 2 x Anytime First class return tickets arrived in the post, which will nicely take care of my next two expeditions back to Plymouth...........neither of which however will be on the 1903 on a Friday!  ;)

I guess it shows the value of escalating these matters as high as possible.

Yes indeed - especially as you weren't personally inconvenienced on the train in question.  Good customer service acknowledging the woeful response time and the fact you had to escalate it, but I hope anybody who complained who actually was on the train got at least the same gesture sent their way.

Indeed, it feels wrong to me that you complained about a service you weren't on, took up significant amount of management's time responding to it, and have benefited in the process, albeit that you did not overtly seek compensation.

A rather churlish attitude, and one which misses the rather obvious elephant in the room that had I received a reply from GWR within a reasonable timeframe (to what was a pretty straightforward enquiry) rather than having to wait the thick end of three months, there would have been no need for any "management time" to be spent on dealing with it.

If no pressure is applied on issues such as this (whether by passengers on this service, those who like myself have friends who use it, or indeed frequent travellers to the Westcountry such as myself), it gives GWR a perfect excuse to do nothing about it - if enough people apply pressure in the most effective area, it's likely to move the issue up the agenda - that's generally how the World spins.

You are correct however that I was not seeking compensation (overtly or otherwise to clarify your implication), and similarly to Industry Insider I hope that all those who did travel on the train received it in a timely manner, and without having to jump through the hoops I experienced merely getting an answer to a question.

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday.......I've got a couple of journeys to plan!  ;)

Why not take the 19:03 and enjoy the a Pullman meal on it as I know you've been interested to see if the food is worth the expense?  You could travel down there with your complimentary tickets 1st Class with a pullman meal for the cost it would otherwise have been to go standard with a BLT sandwich.

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday.......I've got a couple of journeys to plan!  ;)
[/quote]

Just be careful with elephants in the room!  :D ;)

Just be careful with elephants in the room!  :D ;)
[/quote]

............different journey, thought I may use them for a trek across the Alps with a pal called Hannibal, I'm providing the elephants, he's bringing the Chianti and Fava beans.

Following a helpful suggestion by member broadgage a developing conversation about extra trains for Easter 2017 has been split off here - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18083.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18083.0)