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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on October 22, 2016, 00:08:52



Title: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 22, 2016, 00:08:52
From the Cornish and Devon Post (http://www.thepost.uk.com/article.cfm?id=106254&headline=Could%20the%20railway%20return%20to%20Bude?%20%E2%80%98Nothing%20is%20impossible,%E2%80%99%20packed%20meeting%20is%20told&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2016):

Quote
Could the railway return to Bude? ‘Nothing is impossible,’ packed meeting is told

(http://www.thepost.uk.com/images/news/2016/Bude-train.jpg)
The meeting at Bude, at which over 100 people attended.

Could the railway return to Bude? “Nothing is impossible,” a public meeting heard last week, 50 years after the closure of the town’s train station.

More than 100 people packed into the hall at the Parkhouse Centre on Saturday. The meeting had to be moved from one of the smaller rooms because of the number of people attending.

The meeting was organised by Richard Wolfenden-Brown. He wrote and directed Bude Youth Theatre’s production ‘The Last Train to Bude…?’, which was performed in March.

At the time he asked audience members to take part in a ‘just for fun’ referendum, asking people to fill in forms as to whether they would like to see the railway line to Bude re-opened. Everyone who had filled in a form said yes, which led to Mr Wolfenden-Brown to organise the public meeting, 50 years after the town’s train station closed — in October 1966.

Mr Wolfenden-Brown told the meeting: “Goldsworthy Gurney’s inventions in steam were key in the developments of the railway. It seems deeply ironic that we are left without a railway and I would like to put this right. The railway started when Goldsworthy Gurney called a meeting in Stratton in 1844. He thought it’d be great to have one in Bude. He never lived to see it happen.”

Holsworthy’s railway station opened in 1879, and the meeting heard there were ‘arguments’ for 19 years, before Bude’s railway station was opened in 1898.

Mr Wolfenden-Brown added: “It thrived for 68 years,” but said an increase in car use eventually led to people ‘using trains less’.

He said 4,500 miles of track were closed around the country, but added: “Things are different now. Ten per cent of journeys are now by rail, which is more than in the ‘60s. It’s growing and economically, culturally and socially for education, leisure and pleasure, people need trains to get around. It’s green and just makes sense in so many ways. It’s such a shame Bude lost its station.”

He said if the rail line to Okehampton re-opens, for Bude to see the return of rail: “Yeah we might have to knock down a Waitrose, but it’s possible. Sometimes for the greater good, things need to happen that aren’t going to suit everybody.”

He suggested a steering group could be created, joking ‘no pain, no train’, adding: “With effort great things can happen. It probably won’t happen in my lifetime but it’s about the children for the future and their families. Luckily we live in a democracy. If we’ve got the will of the people, nothing is impossible.”

Michael Ireland from Okehampton told the meeting he is involved with OkeRail, and said the group has worked locally with Bude-Stratton Town Council. He said: “Yes there is the will here and people here with the expertise,” and suggested a group should be formed to liaise with OkeRail.

A representative of Bude-Stratton Town Council said it has worked also with Okehampton Town Council, and Holsworthy Town Council is also involved. He added: “We do echo the views that have been expressed today. A lot of stuff goes on behind the scenes that perhaps people don’t know about.”

Richard Proctor, from Okehampton, said he travelled on the summer rail Sunday service between Exeter and Okehampton this year, travelling on all but one of the services, and interviewing every passenger, ‘to find out if they would want a daily service’.

He said: “The response was incredible. We asked people where they live. Seventy-one per cent came from what we call the Okehampton catchment area that includes West Devon, Torridge, Mid Devon and North and East Cornwall. Fifteen per cent of people made the journey from North Cornwall to ride to Exeter on a Sunday. They carried altogether 7,500 people on the Sunday rover. Not one said they wouldn’t be interested if the train came back.”

North Cornwall’s Conservative MP Scott Mann, who held a morning surgery at the Parkhouse Centre, gave his support before heading off to another engagement in the constituency.
He said he and other MPs ‘have been speaking in Parliament about the Okehampton link’, adding: “It’s not just the need of getting from one place to another, it’s also about building that economic development of transport.”

One member of the public from Kilkhampton said: “I feel it would be wonderful to have a train service here. The holidaymakers travel by train to Exeter. When they get here by bus they have no other way of travelling around to other towns and beautiful places.”

Recounting a recent experience, she added: “A bus broke down at Halwill, for two and a half hours. Five people missed their flights and three people missed their cinema seats, which had been paid for. There were no taxis — they were all booked.”

Another member of the public said: “I grew up in the North West. I was in the North West last summer. There are lots of branch lines and it’s a joy to use them. It’s such a shame the branch lines have been stripped out and I think we should do all we can to bring them back.”

Malcolm Mitchell from Marhamchurch said: “I find it obscene billions are being spent on HS2,” and that, in comparison: “It would cost a pittance to do what you want to do to get to Okehampton and beyond.”

The meeting also heard members of the public share their views that rail transport is important for medical reasons, to enable people to get to hospital appointments, and another said: “Education is really important. We’ve got kids going to college spending one and a half hours on the bus. They would have more options when they get to the end of 5th form [if they could travel by train].”

Mr Wolfenden-Brown said he had received an email from a young woman who studies at college in Truro, saying she finds the travel ‘very difficult’.

He said prior to the meeting he had also received an email from the secretary of the town’s chamber of trade, expressing their support.

Mr Wolfenden-Brown asked for some comments from younger people at the meeting. Mark Rosser, originally from Billericay, in Essex, said his father takes the bus from Bude to Exeter to catch the train for work. He added: “It would be so much easier for people that do work outside of Cornwall to get to different places. I’m a glass collector at the Brendon Arms. It was busy in Bude in the summer. Imagine how much increase in tourism all of Cornwall would get if people could just get on the train — it would be brilliant.”

However, some questioned the cost and likelihood of rail transport returning to Bude.

Tony Webb, of Bude, said he used to attend boarding school in the 1950s, adding: “I was never let down by the trains as a blind person,” but questioned whether it was realistic to think the railway could return to Bude. “Putting rails back down would cost a fortune,” he said.

Tony Hill of the Tarka Rail Association and OkeRail said he thought the amount of interest was ‘fantastic’, but said: “It’s 28 miles from Meldon to Bude. Sourton Parkway is they key jewel that would serve a huge area. Ultimately, Sourton Parkway is the place to serve North Cornwall and West Devon. It would be lovely to see the line here but realistically North Cornwall is very sparsely populated.”

Those interested in being kept up to date were asked to leave their contact details on a form, and someone also suggested a Facebook page should be created to keep people up to date.

There is a consultation meeting about the re-opening of the line as far as Okehampton on Saturday, November 12, from 9am to 1pm at Charter Hall, Okehampton, displaying work carried out so far to try and get the service back up and running.




Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: grahame on October 22, 2016, 08:40:23
Richard Proctor, from Okehampton, said he travelled on the summer rail Sunday service between Exeter and Okehampton this year, travelling on all but one of the services, and interviewing every passenger, 'to find out if they would want a daily service'.

He said: "The response was incredible. We asked people where they live. Seventy-one per cent came from what we call the Okehampton catchment area that includes West Devon, Torridge, Mid Devon and North and East Cornwall. Fifteen per cent of people made the journey from North Cornwall to ride to Exeter on a Sunday. They carried altogether 7,500 people on the Sunday rover. Not one said they wouldn’t be interested if the train came back."

The other comments (long article, not requoted) about this being a long term project are very true, Bude has a population of around 8,000 (swelled in summer to five figures), but it's on its own rather than one of a chain of communities - can't take advantage of through traffic opportunities, nor significant intermediate traffic.     Except ... indications quoted suggest that there may be significant sentiment for that intermediate traffic (fascinating question as to whether sentiment turns to actual passengers if a service is provided) , and looking really long term and the National Infrastructure Commission (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/national-infrastructure-commission), is it really impossible to see by 2040 trains headed out from Exeter to Bude, calling at communities such as Sampford Courtney, Okehampton, Halwill and Holdsworthy which have developed as sustainable communities in the countryside in a similar way to Copplestone.    Who knows - change at Meldon for Plymouth.

Looking an neighbourhood plans here in Wiltshire, one of our smaller communities that a railway line passes near without there being a station at present (not one of the higher profile and larger places that are more talked about) asked about the possibility of their station (re)opening; the answer wasn't actually "no way", but rather "if you're happy to fill the land between the current community and railway line with housing which is the sort to encourage public transport use, then it would be realistic".    That was too radical an option as far as they were concerned, but  perhaps it's not too radical for north Cornwall?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 22, 2016, 16:05:00
The other comments (long article, not requoted) ...

Yes, it is a long article, but I wanted to quote it in full in my original post, as a means of seeding this discussion.  ;)

Portishead is in a rather similar situation, being located at the end of a potentially reopened branch line rather than one of a chain of similarly sized communities.  :-\



Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Noggin on October 22, 2016, 20:17:10
It's interesting, as it does add to the business case for reopening the LSWR route between Okehampton and Tavistock if passive provision was made for reopening the branch to Bude. It might seem like a lot of money to reopen, but when you think of the difference that the railway makes to places like St Ives and Newquay.


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Oberon on October 22, 2016, 20:32:25
They could consider reopening the line as light rail or as a tramway to save costs perhaps?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ellendune on October 22, 2016, 21:42:44
It's interesting, as it does add to the business case for reopening the LSWR route between Okehampton and Tavistock if passive provision was made for reopening the branch to Bude. It might seem like a lot of money to reopen, but when you think of the difference that the railway makes to places like St Ives and Newquay.

What passive provision would be required?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 23, 2016, 13:42:09
The problem is the business case which will in part be driven by populations. Very small by comparisons with other parts of the country


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on October 23, 2016, 18:03:42
Around 15 years ago I embarked on the quest of collecting the entire Ordnance Survey New Popular Edition of England and Wales - that is, one-inch maps from the '40s and '50s. It wasn't just because the maps are wonderful (though they are) or that I'm a completist (though I am), it was because they were - at the time - the most recent Ordnance Survey mapping to go out of copyright; and you can do a lot with out-of-copyright mapping. (In particular, we ended up using scans of them to bootstrap OpenStreetMap's coverage of the UK, which in turn bootstrapped the whole project which is now one of just four worldwide mapping providers... and so it goes on.)

But as I was hunting round secondhand bookshops to find the sheets I didn't yet have, I was always struck by the fact that sheets of the south-west were much easier to find than any others: and Bude (sheet 174) was by far the easiest of the lot. It was probably a 50% chance that any bookshop with a decent selection of old maps would have the Bude sheet. And we're not talking the modern age of M5 and A303: this was at a time when the train was the most popular way to go on holiday.

Tourism patterns have changed a lot in 50 years. But if it was a draw in the 1950s, doesn't that suggest there might be something to it even now? Could Bude become another Newquay or St Ives?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: AMLAG on October 23, 2016, 19:10:19
As a native and resident of deepest rural Devon it is always a pleasure to drive to Bude along the unconjested A3072/79 main roads; unlike the very busy roads of S.Devon !

On a recent visit to Bude I found a new Lidl and a narrow boat cafe moored on the canal amongst the ancient pedal boats. I detected several Brummies in town ..coach tour?!

Ultimately, and hopefully within 10 years, a Railhead for Bude, Holsworthy and Launceston amongst other places, at Sourton Parkway (as mentioned by N.Cornwall MP Scott Mann at the Bude mtg on 15/10/16; but not reported) could do wonders for this large 'rail desert' .


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ellendune on October 23, 2016, 20:57:02
A floating Lidl?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: grahame on October 23, 2016, 21:23:50
The problem is the business case which will in part be driven by populations. Very small by comparisons with other parts of the country

Population density, Cornwall - 150 per square km (pity that the figures I've seen all refer to the unitary authority, so I don't know for North Corwall).   Population density - Scottish Borders - 25 per square km.   So if North Cornwall won't get a railway back, the chance of The Borders getting one ....   oh - wait ....  :D


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 24, 2016, 08:56:36
Not sure they look at density - isn't it usually catchment areas?

Secondly, the Scottish Government has cash coming out of places Cornwall & England unfortunately don't....


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Noggin on October 24, 2016, 12:00:23
It's interesting, as it does add to the business case for reopening the LSWR route between Okehampton and Tavistock if passive provision was made for reopening the branch to Bude. It might seem like a lot of money to reopen, but when you think of the difference that the railway makes to places like St Ives and Newquay.

What passive provision would be required?

Signalling, junctions, passing loops, bay platforms etc. Generally to support not only a full service over Okehampton and Tavistock, but a stopper to Bude too.   


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Rapidash on October 24, 2016, 21:54:28
Pfft, get back to me when we get a line back in Brixham. 18 thousand residents, a small horde of tourist and only one proper road in = some proper jams both in and out!



Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ellendune on October 24, 2016, 22:04:40
Secondly, the Scottish Government has cash coming out of places Cornwall & England unfortunately don't....

I think the Scottish Ministers might disagree with you


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 25, 2016, 07:57:58
Per head of population, they couldn't deny the figures


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Andy on October 25, 2016, 14:09:14
1. Reinstate regular Okehampton-Exeter (or -Torbay/-Exmouth/-Axminster/Waterloo?) services.
2. Reopen Tavistock - Bere-Alston - Plymouth.
3. Complete the Dartmoor Orbital - Sea Wall relief/bypass/avoiding line by reopening Meldon-Tavistock.
4. Look at a reopening of Meldon Junction to Bude.

Got all that Ms May?



Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: PhilWakely on October 25, 2016, 14:30:29
1. Reinstate regular Okehampton-Exeter (or -Torbay/-Exmouth/-Axminster/Waterloo?) services.
2. Reopen Tavistock - Bere-Alston - Plymouth.
3. Complete the Dartmoor Orbital - Sea Wall relief/bypass/avoiding line by reopening Meldon-Tavistock.
4. Look at a reopening of Meldon Junction to Bude.

Got all that Ms May?
I didn't realise that there was a General Election coming up!


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Andy on October 25, 2016, 16:08:10
No elections but they're going to have to do something with all this extra money they'll save post-Brexit.
 
;-)



Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: 34104 on October 25, 2016, 21:20:24
The main physical problems with any reopening would be that a rather long bridge would be required to span the dual carriageway which severed the line near Meldon junction and getting through the housing estate at Halwill and the supermarket at Holsworthy,although from memory there may be enough room there to squeeze a railway through the latter.Don't think there's much else,although some of the formation is now used as a walking/cycle path.That is enough to be going on with though and if the powers that be aren't especially serious about the value for money obtained by reopening the main Okehampton line [which would more and more appear to be the case with the transport minister making woffling noises about his "to do list" and Network Rail putting forward idiotic proposals about building a railway in the sea],then Bude unfortunately isn't going to be of high priority.It may happen if there is a genuine change in government thinking but i'm not holding my breath.Good luck to any pressure group that may arise though.


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Oberon on October 26, 2016, 07:13:05
The plan to reconnect Bude to the outside world is a wonderful one. But back on planet earth do any of us have a clue regarding Mrs May's attitude to rail, has she any sort of history on the subject?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 26, 2016, 09:04:51

Secondly, the Scottish Government has cash coming out of places Cornwall & England unfortunately don't....

......mostly Westminster!


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 26, 2016, 09:27:36
Indeed, that formula needs a serious revision....


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ellendune on October 26, 2016, 09:36:01
Indeed, that formula needs a serious revision....

Why? Because it recognises that it Scotland serves not only 10% of the population but also 30% of the total land area of the country?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 26, 2016, 09:39:01
Because it provides hard cash without taking into any account any benefit occurring from infrastructure projects in England. eg HS2 which will have a benefit to Scots rail travel, but they'll get the full cash amount from the formula on top.


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ellendune on October 26, 2016, 13:14:53
But HS2 is currently only going as far North ans Leeds and Manchester.  And anyway I understood that the Scottish and UK Governments were in dispute as to whether this expenditure did form part of the formula settlement.


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Noggin on October 27, 2016, 14:56:14
The plan to reconnect Bude to the outside world is a wonderful one. But back on planet earth do any of us have a clue regarding Mrs May's attitude to rail, has she any sort of history on the subject?

Yes, was a regular rail commuter from Maidenhead, supposedly very well informed on railway issues, took on both FGW and the DfT on numerous occasions.


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: Noggin on October 27, 2016, 14:58:07
Because it provides hard cash without taking into any account any benefit occurring from infrastructure projects in England. eg HS2 which will have a benefit to Scots rail travel, but they'll get the full cash amount from the formula on top.

Yes, but isn't HS2 being funded privately? Doesn't count surely? 


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: ChrisB on October 27, 2016, 16:29:23
Is it? Seriously?


Title: Re: Possibility of reopening the branch line to Bude
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 27, 2016, 22:20:41
The main physical problems with any reopening would be that a rather long bridge would be required to span the dual carriageway which severed the line near Meldon junction and getting through the housing estate at Halwill and the supermarket at Holsworthy,although from memory there may be enough room there to squeeze a railway through the latter.Don't think there's much else,although some of the formation is now used as a walking/cycle path.That is enough to be going on with though and if the powers that be aren't especially serious about the value for money obtained by reopening the main Okehampton line [which would more and more appear to be the case with the transport minister making woffling noises about his "to do list" and Network Rail putting forward idiotic proposals about building a railway in the sea],then Bude unfortunately isn't going to be of high priority.It may happen if there is a genuine change in government thinking but i'm not holding my breath.Good luck to any pressure group that may arise though.

There is also a big new housing estate on the track bed on approach to the old station at Bude, so would have to cut short.



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