Great Western Coffee Shop

From The BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-38170694)

Are Wales' disused railway tunnels an untapped resource for tourism?

250,000 users in first year, which is always going to be higher(est) as a lot will visit the first time. I wonder about users in second/later years when novelty value wears off?

No, I disagree with your bolded hypothesis, but I do agree there's a significant possibility with a new opening / service / attraction of a drop back after people have tried it for the first time.   This is why it is so important as part of any scheme to gain something to have a long term plan too.  If you make sure your early customers enjoy the experience and want to come back.  That they tell their friends. That your marketing continues. That you work to resolve issues arising and change enough to make people want to re-purchase an updated experience ...

Strategy - to gain and retain.  And knowing that retaining is a much longer road than gaining.  I can quote examples ... two TransWilts, one hotel and one major company.  And I can tell you how in a couple of cases the doubting Thomases were rather taken aback by the continuing upward curve  ;D ... but then we did win the ACoRP marketing award last year.

A tunnel isn't enough on its own to get cyclists arriving in their thousands, but if it connects to a network of other routes it may be. That's the genius of the Two Tunnels route in Bath: it makes an almost traffic-free 12-mile circular route, out to Midford and back along the Kennet & Avon towpath. So I can see the Bethesda Tunnel scheme working, as it would link to the already popular Lon Las Ogwen (NCN 82). Rhondda and Queensbury, the two other prominent tunnel cycleway projects at the moment, are a greater ask.

On a much smaller scale, it's quirky and fun - the Shute Shelve tunnel, on the cycle path that used to be the Strawberry Line (http://www.thestrawberryline.org.uk/index.php?section=visit), around the Mendip Hills.  Best to take your own torch there, though.  ;) :D ;D

Here's another in our area.

Responsible marketing from our railway side is called for, though ... we could so easily get 20 people and their bicycles to our local station on a Sunday morning to catch the train for a day out on this trail ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/rmark1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/rmark2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/rmark3.jpg)

... so note the walks and other attractions too - as noted as desirable by Richard Fairhurst

Is it me?  Or does that figure look a bit....spooky? :o

Sustrans have gone in for 'spooky' sculptures in the last few years. The ones I particularly find disconcerting are those on the old platform at Warmley on the Bristol & Bath Railway Path, which in the evening gloom do actually look like people waiting on the platform.

I live very close to the Two Tunnels path in Bath and can vouch for its success. It is used, probably in this order of usage, by walkers, runners and cyclists (and beyond Midford by some horse riders), and the length of the longest tunnel doesn't appear to deter people (I've often cycled through it and passed people walking through, and have led walks through it myself and found that everyone has been quite happy to use it).

If it just did this it would be a success, but as Richard says, it also joins up with other routes which makes it especially good for cyclists - the circular route he describes coming back into Bath along the Kennet & Avon towpath is a fantastic route, about 12 miles altogether, now being done by walkers and runners as well as cyclists.

The South Downs National Park has specified that all former railway lines in their area; primarily Chichester to Midhurst, Petersfield to Pulbourough, also possibly the old Watercress Line, are not to be built on but retained for cycling and walking. So they obviously forsee a benefit for tourism. The Centurion Trail, from Chichester north to Lavant has now been extended to the Singleton/West Dean Tunnel. They are in the process of doing an environmental audit of the tunnel (bats?) with a view to extending to Singleton village. There are two more tunnels before Midhurst. Be interesting to see how it progresses. There was a report some years ago from the Scottish Government extolling the benefit of old rail tracks for tourism, and the economic benefits it brought to communities.

The Downs Link, the former Guildford to Christ's Hospital and Christ's Hospital to Shoreham lines are a well-used route. The only difficulty I had was where the council had used the tunnel by Baynards Station for landfill, which left a fairly precipitous descent over the top.

There are numerous other former rail tracks, but sometime there is conflict with preservation groups who hope to re-instate trains either commercially or as heritage lines. The former Downs Link lines are an example where there were various proposals but they never came to anything.

To my mind the attraction is not specifically that these are tunnels but they are on old railway lines, and therefore traffic-free, mostly level and connecting places.

By the way, I'm wondering why this topic is in Buses and other ways to travel rather than Other ways to travel: cycle routes, cycles, and how the railways deal with them; presumably because in this case there is no railway interaction? Though that doesn't seem to be the case in some of the other threads in there either.

Nah - it's because I overlooked that other board and started the thread in where it would have gone before the cycling stuff was split off.  Sorry about that ... moving it now, and may move some others.

This has all become a bit boring..... ::)

Not if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel... ;D

Hi All,

Is the light at the end of the Tunnel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46291959

Full steam ahead for old railway tunnels as cycle paths?  BBC Wales

Basset

What the Rhondda Tunnel Society have achieved in the last few years is impressive. This would be the longest tunnel accessible in Wales if it comes to fruition, and their publicity is giving the impression it's when not if.  See http://www.rhonddatunnelsociety.co.uk/. Woth joining to support them.

Very slightly over the border, plans seem to be moving ahead to reuse the Wye Valley trackbed from Tidenham (near Chepstow) to Tintern as a cycle and walking route. This does include a short tunnel, although there's a landslip just north of it which currently blocks access. The track of the old Tidenham branch is apparently to be taken up and some of it will find a new home at the Forest of Dean Railway.

Still some way to go with that though. They're saying two to three years to remove the old track, then they'll "be able to work up to" a second section which should eventually connect with a bridge over the Wye which hasn't been built yet!

Building a new Bridge on the River Wye is trivial, compared with the effort required to deal with the various parish planning authorities along the route... they make North Somerset look dangerously progressive.

I found the progress update a bit hard to parse, but on the basis that Dayhouse Quarry, the A48 bridge, and the National Diving & Activity Centre are pretty much the same place, I think they're saying that Sustrans/A-BCC will be removing the track north of the A48 bridge (through the tunnel) imminently. The FoDR will then be taking up the track south of the bridge in their own time - as you say, over the next few years.

Not quite the same progress with some English tunnels. The South Downs National Park wants to re-open the Singleton Tunnel on the old Chichester to Midhurst branch (to extend the Centurion Way). I get the impression that Natural England are digging their heels in because of bats. Not aware that the issue has been raised with the two following tunnels.

Bats were certainly an issue in the Two Tunnels scheme in Bath, but not one that could not be overcome:

The tunnel opens to pedestrians and cyclists tomorrow (1st April). No, really.

Ooh, thanks for the update. I'll have to check that out (subject to Covid restrictions – are we allowed to cross the border now?

That's an interesting one: my understanding was that the rules on travel anywhere within Wales have been lifted - but the restrictions on travelling into Wales remain.

However, I can't immediately find any authority for that: can anyone help?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-wales-lockdown-to-ease-slightly-with-cross-border-travel-allowed-from-12-april-12261978

Sorry, No - not until 12 April.  ;D

Indeed. Hope you found that answer and timetable helpful, Bmblbzzz. Over here in France, our attempt at semi-freedom-with-a-curfew appears to be about to turn into de facto lockdown, so we are unlikely to see any chinks of light until mid-May at the earliest.

Enjoy  ;D

Presumably the Wye valley trackbed is all in England, as (unless I'm mistaken) it lies on the eastern side of the river. Chepstow itself would be out of bounds until April 12th, but the line should be reachable from Forest of Dean roads.

It is indeed. So you can ride through the tunnel but can't cross over to Tintern (the village where tinternet was invented). I don't know to what extent the paths north of the tunnel have been cleared/improved anyway...

I don't know about immediately north of the tunnel, but there has been a cyclepath along the trackbed towards the Monmouth end for many years. I remember riding it more years than I can remember ago.

There's a path along the trackbed north of Monmouth to Symond's Yat which is very rideable. I don't know if that's the one you're referring to?

I have very mixed feelings about the re-use of railway tunnels for cycling.
If there is NO REALISTIC chance of the tunnel being required again for railway use, then I support the idea.

If however the tunnel might reasonably be required again for a railway, then I am opposed to use as a cycle route. Such use  as a cycle route effectively prohibits future railway use.
Re-opening and re-instating of railway lines is hard enough without having to contend with the more rabid end of the cycling lobby.

Though of course an open tunnel (for cyclists) has to be maintained and kept in a safe condition.  Closed tunnels are often boarded up and left to decay and become unsafe or very costly to reopen.

I can recommend Paul & Rebecca Whitewick’s YouTube channel, and also Martin Zero’s as well, for anyone who wants to find out about old railway tunnels.

Just had a look at the map and you are right. It made for a lovely ride from Symond's Yat to Monmouth, with the trackbed south from there being just a walkway.

But anyway, there is no reason for any English cyclist not to enjoy the new Wye Valley track right now.

From a hopefully not too rabid cyclist. Not knowing actual numbers, but in the case of the Two Tunnels in Bath are there more commuter cyclists than there would be any potential train commuters? If there is a regular user base I would favour things being left as they are rather than a change to benefit a few weeks of tourist traffic a year. In the case of the Two Tunnels would a steam heritage train be attractive through probably the longest unventilated tunnel in England.

I am sure we have ventilated this subject before.

We have indeed, and duly noted that even among the most "rabid" of rail reopening advocates, there is an acceptence that for many, many reasons, particularly in terms of accessing the modern rail network into Bath Spa, it wouldn't be practical to reopen from Bath to Radstock/Shepton/beyond through the original Two Tunnels route, and that the long-marked out alternative route via Bathampton, Limpley Stoke, Monkton Combe and part of the old Camerton branch would have to be utilsed as far as Midford instead. Even if you wanted to "go heritage" and try and access the original station at Green Park, you would quickly find that impractical due to the huge amount of development and other changes that have taken place along the original alignment since closure.

So, please, continue to enjoy the genuinely wonderful active travel facility that the Two Tunnels route has become to your heart's content without living in fear that it could be taken away from you  :)

Anyway, I get myself into trouble if I spend too long on this topic, so I will "ventilate" no longer  ;D

Funny that the Two Tunnels comes up ... from this morning. First trip beyond Melksham except for essentials; even this was exercise. Full report late, but I need a rest first.
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/2t20210402_1.jpg)

I think it is a case of "use it or loose it". Encourage former rail lines to be used as footpaths, bridleways and cycle routes to keep them open. Reduces the likelihood of tunnels being filled with municipal rubbish and cuttings being filled with waste. Also the potential of an additional funding stream if a railway is re-instated alongside this use. This is very much the attitude of the South Downs National Park who have said planning permission will only be granted on former railway lines for active and sustainable projects.

Back to the original topic?
https://road.cc/content/news/new-tunnel-disused-railway-line-opens-cyclists-282275 (https://road.cc/content/news/new-tunnel-disused-railway-line-opens-cyclists-282275)