Great Western Coffee Shop

Over the last few years Hillingdon Council, various local business development organisations, the GWR Customer Panel, members of the travelling public, and even the local Hillingdon Gazette have all tried to get the conglomerate of Network Rail, Crossrail and Great Western Railways to improve the customer information systems at Hayes & Harlington. All have failed.

Emails, letters, complaint forms, phone calls - all are ignored.

Over a year ago the main station building on platform 4 was demolished, yet since then nothing has been done to replace it. Rumour has it that the money has simply run out. Certainly the demolition was a tad early, and platforms 5, 4, 3, & 2 still need to be lengthened for even 10-car trains let alone the projected 12.

However the CIS situation is dire. The Crossrail works usually involve switching the use of platforms from 3 & 4 to 1 & 2 especially late at night and early in the morning, and at most weekends. Sometimes ALL platforms are in use at the same time.

BUT THE CIS SYSTEMS DON'T WORK FOR MUCH OF THE TIME.

There is only a SINGLE tv screen indicating which platforms are in use - but this is in the upper foyer soon to be demolished.

There is a hotel in High Point Village near the alternative entrance to platform 4. Many tourists need to find a working CIS display at that entrance detailing the platforms they need to go to. Even local passengers need this information, especially since the platform changes and usage are so many and varied.

Yet whilst there is indeed a second tv screen opposite the temporary ticket office at the entrance to platform 4 - and it is clearly marked that passengers should refer to it - it is 1/ never switched on, 2/ when it was switched on the display couldn't be read due to sun light dimming the display, 3/ to counteract this the contrast was turned up high rendering the display unreadable, and 4/ the glass screen inside was always covered in condensation.

This is a key entrance to the Station for intending passengers from Hayes town and the hotel. There SHOULD be a working CIS display there. Yet the arrogance of Network Rail Crossrail and GWR knows no bounds. Despite numerous complaints over the last few years this tv screen remains u/s.

OK - so the money has run out for the Hayes & Harlington Station rebuild. But what is the cost of a replacement tv screen FGS?

So intending passengers entering via platform 4 have no way of finding out if platform 4 or 2 is being used for London trains. So it has been observed that many simply wait around at the London end of platform 4 hoping for the best. When trains arrive at platform 2 they then have a choice: 1/ wait for the next train, 2/ run for the train over the connecting bridge - but the GWR drivers rarely wait, or 3/ run across the tracks - the quickest way.

BTW Network Rail / GWR switched off one of the two Oyster readers on platform 1 due to the danger of over-crowding. The logic of that completely fails me. Excessive over-crowding takes place because of that reduction from 2 to 1 readers. You couldn't make this stuff up.

And this is how GWR runs its services today. Unprofessional, pathetic and dangerous.

How can you say such things, when they are busily  "Building a Greater West"!!!  ::)

For which the entire electrification project has devolved into chaos, and for which the money has run out.

Surely your beef re. that needs to be with NR and not GWR!

My understanding is that the feed that supplies CIS with next train arrival & departures information is publicly available if you know who to ask to get the code. Given that's the case, could not the community and/or passengers club together and buy a few screens and a Raspberry Pi or two and provide their own CIS? You're looking at 500 quid max. Perhaps a local business might want to sponsor it.

One thing we've learned here in Wiltshire is that there is no "them" any longer. The organisations we once expected to work for us (civil servants, the health service and previously public bodies such as the Post Office and NR) are financially, and often it seems morally, completely and utterly bankrupt. "They" won't and can't do anything. The only answer is to do it yourself.

I have the codes for many stations (including Hayes and Harlington), for the "WebTIS" screens - that's not the LED displays on the platform but the TV monitors.  There's a number of different formats available including the beautifully named "detailed summary" - sample below.   If you get to setting up a screen, it shouldn't be a problem getting the feed (that applies to most but not all other GWR served stations too).

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/hh_ds_webtis.jpg)

I suspect that you're caught between station operators now.

Shortly to become a Crossrail/Elizabethan/TfL station, it is not difficult to understand why GWR don't want to spend capital expenditure there - they won't get their money back.

Suspect you're waiting for the handover to TfL, when, if Sadiq K's promises hold , you'll get his bells & whistles of Staff from first to last trains, full barriers, and decent CIS.

Not long to wait....

I like that display. I haven't seen any others at stations that show the arrival times for the following stations or the Last Report.
Out of curiosity, how many locations do you know of locally that use this and do you have issues with screen burn? I'm thinking along the lines of the old plasma display boards at Paddington that were replaced with LED displays about 10 years ago.

I imagine screen burn - or its equivalent with LEDs - is not a serious issue given the low cost and short amortisation period of these today. It's just a screen with enough computer to run a browser, after all.

You could sign up to Darwin and do your own formatting, though I've no idea how much formatting it takes. There is a single response object called StationBoardWithDetails.

Or try this, from A1 publishing (http://www.stationboard.uk/index.php?station1=WKM&direction=departures&view=desktop). Maybe that's not a lot more than NRE offer, though. They have a number of other formatted screens, presumably based on Darwin and perhaps other like sources, including TfL ones.

SWT's own screens may not be openly on line like GWR's, of course.

Now here's a thing. It looks as if I was getting confused between two different NRE services: Darwin Webservice (Public Version) - all XML, SOAP, and such stuff - and Public CIS (PubCIS). The latter is formatted for a web browser, available from their server (but only if you register - details unknown), and is or was used by SWT.

Google found a formatted page I can look a (http://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/ldbcis/departures.aspx?u=039B1CD1-14D4-4CB9-83B1-A84CC3AEDF83&crs=BTN&H=768)t, with animation, but I suspect it's an example rather than a usable page. That's because it has South West Trains at the top, but shows departures and services from Brighton. So if you can find out how to request the right station, that might be what you were asking for.

There's a developer's day coming up in about a month on the Network Rail feeds, and the public CIS is available in both HTML (7 formats) and XML. Will follow up with a forum link when on a sure connection tomorrow.

Well, first thing to try is editing the CRS code in that URL. Which works! Though mine isn't updating automatically (which might be Firefox), and it's only page 1 of 2 (for Brighton).

I've just tried for my local station (PLY) and it works!  Interestingly it also shows the last reported point and time.  You can also change departures to arrivals.

This is the link which provides the screenshot Graham posted earlier.

http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/ (http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/)

It is on Google - so not private.

The services look real ... lots of buses rather than trains this evening ;-)

Interesting. I don't plan to create a departure board myself, I was just curious about some of the specs. Sorry if the wording of my last post suggested otherwise.

Of course they are - just not usable if you are looking for SWT services! I thought the long magic string in the URL was a way of restricting it to that example. But no - that URL is usable with (I think) any station's CRS code in it.

Oddly, while it looks very like one of the Tiger screens, there are differences. The order of trains is one (either nominal or expected departure); and I saw a cancelled train held on the NRE one for several minutes after its due time, but deleted at that time on Tiger.
... no, hold on, that's partly because Tiger is showing arrivals too, despite being headed departures.

I've found this link which lists only GWR stations:

http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/gwr.html (http://iris2.rail.co.uk/tiger/gwr.html)

(and then I noticed the 'Train Operators' drop-down menu which also allows you to select individual operators)

But these are all formatted boards viewable on a browser (Darwin Webservice would be a cook-it-yourself alternative). I'm sure I've seen the service station calls text on a staion screen somewhere - though I can't remember where.

What I did imagine,though was that the question was specifically about SWT stations. My apologies far any confusion that led to. Though given the limited choice on Tiger, it is a valid question.

CIS for any national rail station is available at National Rail (!) ... for example http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/SAL for Salisbury.    The format isn't exactly artistic, the information supplied is fairly basic (though you can click through for details).

Note that they claim copyright for ATOC (of train departure times?) (but ATOC doesn't exist any more?) to the extent that I'm not allowed to even capture a screen and show you. http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/46381.aspx

I was at Hayes and Harlington Station a few hours ago to get the 2151 to Paddington. Wandering on to Platform 4 from Station Approach I looked around to see how I was doing for time. The only screen I could see was to the left, about 30-60 seconds walk away, totally illegible from where I was. Remembering CJB666's original post I backtracked the way I came in to see if I had missed a screen anywhere. I had not. Going back onto the platform I became aware of shouting from the opposite platform. The friends of a woman near me were yelling at her to get over the footbridge because the train was pulling in on platform 2 instead. We both had to run over the footbridge to catch this train.

I think the entrance to platform 4 from the road bridge is still open so there would be departure screens upstairs showing the correct platforms but there are no screens from the Station approach entrance. I was lucky to catch that train tonight.



Edited the train time from 2251 to the correct time of 2151

Your situation is PRECISELY why GWR - are you listening GM Mark Hopwood? - needs to have working and reliable CIS systems at the station.

Over this weekend trains have been using both platform 2 and 4 for Paddington - YET THERE HAS BEEN NO SIGN NOR SYSTEMS AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO PLATFORM 4 TELLING PASSENGERS THAT.

You would also have seen the large permanent NR / GWR signs clearly stating that London trains depart from platform 4 and Reading / Oxfords from platform 3 - and as you found out these signs can be wrong. This weekend 1, 2, 4 were in use and 3 was not. Why were these signs not covered up?

And as you also found out there are no staff on duty at that time of night. Actually you are damned lucky that the driver waited for you to run over the bridge. Many drivers do not wait especially on the Connects. Perhaps you also found out that it is quicker to run across the tracks than to use the bridge; especially to get to platform 1 where there is no direct bridge anyway.

The situation about unreliable CIS and misleading notices has actually been the norm for over a year - ever since they demolished the main buildings; but actually even before that.

I have tried to raise the present situation as a case with Network Rail - they closed it saying 'not our issue.'
 
I have tried to raise a case with Crossrail - many times - they responded by saying that they would pass the issue on to GWR - nothing more was heard.

I have tried - many, many times - to raise the case with GWR including emails to GM Mark Hopwood. Nothing was ever heard back.

However I am now alerting the national and international railway press and on social media as to Great Western Railway's total lack of professionalism in creating a situation when intending passengers might have to run across live tracks in order to catch their trains.

No I didn't see them, I used to use Hayes station a lot a few years ago so I knew which platform to go to (or so I thought).

Fortunately the train was still on its approach, pulling in as I came off the bridge.

Good luck with attracting their interest then. Are you seriously suggesting that people might resort to running across the tracks?

Perhaps this matter should be drawn to the attention of London TravelWatch as it is within the area they cover

Yup, they may well be interested, I reckon

Has been done.

and their response?

Excellent CIS over the weekend - not. ALL 5 platforms had signs stating "No services from this platform."

Station staff - were there any on duty? - failed to make announcements as to which platforms were being used. There were no notices displayed anywhere. Pax assumed rightly during the day that these were 3 and 4.

However in the late evenings services usually switch to platforms 1 and 2. But failing notices and the presence of staff no-one knew this.

Chaos and a complete disregard towards passengers - all weekend.