Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: bobm on January 18, 2017, 17:46:28



Title: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on January 18, 2017, 17:46:28
Much speculation in the Swindon Advertiser  (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15029042.Is_the_council_looking_to_sell_Thamesdown_Transport_/)that Thamesdown Transport may be about to be sold off.

Quote
THAMESDOWN Transport has refused to comment on rumours that the bus company is to be sold.
The company is fully owned by Swindon Borough Council and it is believed an emergency meeting will be held this week to decide its future.
The company’s financial difficulties have been well reported in recent years. In 2014 it suffered a huge financial loss of nearly £400,000, £30,000 more than expected, which was put down to an increase in driver’s wages and the need to fix an ageing fleet of buses.

A statement in Swindon Borough Council’s 2015/16 accounts reads: “Thamesdown Transport trading conditions continue to be challenging, and should the organisation face financial difficulties in the future, elected Members would state the degree of commitment of the Council and the Council’s willingness to meet any accumulated losses would be established at that time.”
Despite that, councillors insisted it had a “bright future”.

Thamesdown Transport is operated as an arms-length company, which means while the council is the sole owner, it does not have a say in the day-to-day running.

It is rumoured that public transport providers Go-Ahead have shown an interest in acquiring the company, though they too refused to comment.

Founded in the 1980s, Go-Ahead has been transformed from a small bus operator in north-east England to an organisation providing more than a billion journeys by bus and by rail each year.
The question over the Swindon company's future comes just over a week after Thamesdown announced the largest overhaul of its bus services in over a decade across Swindon.

Thamesdown’s commercial director Peter Oliver was keen to stress the benefits brought to customers by including a direct connection between Highworth and the Orbital Shopping Centre and a bus to the Great Western Hospital every ten minutes.

He said: “The thing I am most excited about is the service running from Highworth and Orbital because that is completely new and hopefully it will be a success.

“It is in the interests of the company, its workers and passengers to run a network that people want to use and are happy to use and we hope these changes encourage that.”
The company was formed by the former Thamesdown Borough Council as required by the Transport Act 1985.

Anyone who has further information is asked to contact the newsdesk on 01793 501774.



Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on February 03, 2017, 09:14:45
It seems the speculation was true - hence moving this thread from "The Rumour Mill"

From Swindon Advertiser

 (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15068153.UPDATE____2m_losses_show_scale_of_crisis_that_forced_Thamesdown_sale/)
Quote
New managing director of Thamesdown Transport named after Go South Coast takeover

THE financial plight of Thamesdown Transport was so serious that the council was urged to sell the company by March or risk it collapsing, according to information which has now come to light.
On Wednesday evening, senior Swindon borough ouncillors met behind closed doors to approve an offer from the Go Ahead group worth £7.2m.
The sale of Thamesdown Transport’s Barnfield Road depot was also approved with a separate price tag of £4m.
The deal with Go South Coast, which operates a number of south coast bus and coach companies, was officially signed yesterday.

The decision to sell the council-owned bus firm was taken amid concerns about its future financial viability.
Poor performance figures have been publicised before but now the Adver can reveal just how serious the problems were at Thamesdown.
Negotiations over the future of the company have been shrouded in secrecy, staff have been threatened with dismissal and the council has conducted their business behind a confidentiality shield.

Thamesdown bosses and council officers were concerned that should the scale of the financial woes become public prior to a deal being completed, rival firms might move in in a hostile manner.
The company was on track to record a loss of £149,000 at the end of the current financial year — this would have taken its combined losses over the past five years to almost £2m.
An annual management fee that Thamesdown was supposed to pay the council was waived in 2013/14 and no payments have been made since.
With the future looking similarly bleak and with no clear path to profit, the council sought expert advice last year on what to do next.
They were urged to sell the company, to do so as soon as possible, and certainly before the end of March.
Accordingly, bids were sought from established bus operators around the UK and of those that came forward, Go Ahead’s was the most attractive.
The Adver understands that the initial offer was in the region of £8.5m.

But due diligence visits later uncovered staff shortages in the engineering and cleaning departments, issues with cleanliness, faults with equipment and mechanical problems with vehicles that all pushed the value down to the £7.2m agreed by the cabinet on Wednesday.
That figure was expected to fall slightly further still prior to the signing of the deal depending on the final position of the company.
But while the council may be getting in the region of £7m initially, by the time financial obligations and pension requirements left behind by Thamesdown are accounted for, only about half of that, between £3m and £4m, will remain.
The separate £4m from the Barnfield Road depot sale is expected to be reinvested as part of the council’s commercial investment strategy.
As part of the deal, the council has sought assurances that Go Ahead will not sell the depot within the first five years.
Existing routes are expected to continue as advertised, services funded by the council will carry on in accordance with the local bus strategy agreed last year.
Swindon Borough Council said today that councillors agreed to sell the council’s shares in Thamesdown and to sell the bus company to Go South Coast at Wednesday night’s Cabinet meeting to "ensure Thamesdown Transport has a sustainable future".
A spokesman said: "The bus company has incurred losses over the past five years due to difficult trading conditions, despite continued financial support from the council.

"And with the council also facing challenging financial pressures of its own, a review of the bus company concluded that the sale of Thamesdown Transport to an established operator would be in the best interest of council taxpayers, Thamesdown’s staff and its customers.
"Following a competitive process Go South Coast’s bid was assessed as offering the best value to the Council, which wholly owns the company.
"The offer from Go South Coast, the terms of which are commercially confidential, was for all the cuncil’s shares and the freehold of Thamesdown’s Barnfield depot."
Coun David Renard, leader of Swindon Borough Council, said: “We were one of the few local authorities in the country to still own a local bus company, but the council is operating in a really challenging financial climate at the moment and we do not have the resources to continue to support Thamesdown Transport as we have been doing in recent years.
“We have had to change the way we provide services across the council while balancing the ever increasing demand on adults’ and children’s services.
“We believe this deal is in the best interests of local bus users as it secures the financial sustainability of the bus company, offers the best long-term security for Thamesdown Transport’s employees, and will provide vital investment.
"Go South Coast’s expertise will also ensure customers continue to benefit from a high quality bus service.

“The council will arrange a joint meeting with Go South Coast and bus user groups in the coming weeks so customers have the opportunity to learn about future investment plans and raise any issues or concerns that they may have.”
Go South Coast managing director Andrew Wickham said today: “This is an excellent opportunity for us to develop the services on offer to local people here in Swindon and north Wiltshire.
“We’re keen to point out that it’s business as usual as far as our customers are concerned. Any tickets or passes they have will still be valid, and our 85 buses will continue to serve existing routes with no change to timings.
“That said, our ultimate aim is to enhance the services on offer here. As part of this, we will be consulting with local people and listening to the needs of those who travel on our buses.
"Our team will be engaging with representatives of local bus users about our plans to invest in local services.
“We are excited to be providing vital sustainable transport in this region, and I have no doubt our talented team will make a complete success of our new venture. 
“I look forward to meeting with our local customers and hearing their views over the coming weeks and months."
The firm has appointed Alex Chutter, currently operations manager at sister company Salisbury Reds, to take the reins at Thamesdown as general manager. 
For more information about Thamesdown, visit thamesdown-transport.co.uk


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: JayMac on February 03, 2017, 10:42:00
Another municipal gone.

That leaves just six wholly municipal bus companies in England.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Ralph Ayres on February 03, 2017, 10:54:25
Go-Ahead generally seem good at buying well-run companies and broadly giving the management the flexibility and authority to carry on doing what they were doing well but with the backing of a larger organisation. It's often hard to tell that anything has changed, unlike say First or Stagecoach who immediately apply the corporate livery and style.  Carousel in High Wycombe and Metrobus in Crawley spring to mind. It looks as though this may be a little different.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: JayMac on February 03, 2017, 11:39:51
Other Go-Ahead purchases have seen rebranding though. Wilts & Dorset was rebranded to 'More' and 'Salisbury Reds'. Solent Blue Line to 'Bluestar'. Western Greyhound to 'Go Cornwall Bus'. Although that last one was probably a necessary rebrand following the demise of WG.

So, its perfectly possible that Go-Ahead will rename and rebrand Thamesdown Transport. I've always thought it a rather unusual name for buses in Swindon. A town not really associated with the River Thames. I know the name is a hangover from the local government reorganisation of 1974, chosen to reflect the uplands in the north of the borough, but I think a more 'Swindon' name would be appropriate.

'Brunel Buses' perhaps.  ;)

Or perhaps named after another famous Swindonian. 'Fluck Buses'.  :P ;D


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: froome on February 03, 2017, 12:14:52
Another municipal gone.

That leaves just six wholly municipal bus companies in England.

Which are?


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on February 03, 2017, 12:20:03
In England
Blackpool
Halton
Ipswich
Reading
Rossendale
Warrington

In Wales
Cardiff
Newport

In Scotland
Dumfries & Galloway
Edinburgh


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: JayMac on February 03, 2017, 12:24:03
England:

Blackpool Transport
Halton Transport
Ipswich Buses
Rosso (Rossendale Transport Ltd)
Reading Buses
Network Warrington

Nottingham City Transport isn't wholly municipal. 18% is owned by Transdev.

Wales:

Cardiff Bus
Newport Transport

Scotland:

Lothian Buses (Edinburgh and East, West & Mid Lothian)
DGC Buses (Dumfries & Galloway) (although this one was set up solely because D&G Council could not find an operator to accept tendered services)


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Zoe on February 03, 2017, 13:36:39
If the Commons reverse the amendments Lords made to the Bus Services Bill then once a municipal is gone it will be gone forever since local authorities will be banned from setting up new companies.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 03, 2017, 16:00:57
Another municipal gone.

That leaves just six wholly municipal bus companies in England.

I "fondly" remember them transporting me to Kembrey Park once a fortnight or so from Swindon Station!


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on February 03, 2017, 16:18:16
Another municipal gone.

That leaves just six wholly municipal bus companies in England.

I "fondly" remember them transporting me to Kembrey Park once a fortnight or so from Swindon Station!

Not so easy now - since last month only a morning and evening peak service.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 03, 2017, 16:45:41
Another municipal gone.

That leaves just six wholly municipal bus companies in England.

I "fondly" remember them transporting me to Kembrey Park once a fortnight or so from Swindon Station!

Not so easy now - since last month only a morning and evening peak service.
   if memory serves when I used it there were only 3 in the morning & 3 in the evening. V reliable though.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: LiskeardRich on February 03, 2017, 19:26:06
Other Go-Ahead purchases have seen rebranding though. Wilts & Dorset was rebranded to 'More' and 'Salisbury Reds'. Solent Blue Line to 'Bluestar'. Western Greyhound to 'Go Cornwall Bus'. Although that last one was probably a necessary rebrand following the demise of WG.


The last being necessary as WG were still operational at that time and the south east Cornwall sale to go ahead along with 8 buses provided capital allowing the rest of WG to continue operating, albeit for only a few more months. The remainder of WG was then sold a few weeks later and that lasted around 8-10 weeks under the new owner until they couldn't afford the insurance renewal!

Plymouth citybus is an excellent operation and presentation of their vehicles is always excellent.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: simonw on February 06, 2017, 13:39:34
Interestingly, Bristol ceased to have a local bus company from 1948, when it was nationalised by the government.

Why would the government nationalise a local bus company ... well their manager in the 1st World War (George White) started an airplane company, and built a local railway to connect facilities together. Very enterprising!


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on February 16, 2017, 17:55:19
First..er.. change announced by the new management, drivers will start giving change again from next month

From  company website. (http://thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6644)

Quote
Change is coming!
Thursday, February 16 2017

We will be scrapping the exact fare policy for customers travelling on our buses.

New general manager, Alex Chutter, commented: “Since Thamesdown became part of the Go Ahead Group, we have spent a lot of time talking to both our customers and our colleagues, to see how we can make travelling with us easier. 

“It is clear to us that some potential customers may have chosen not to travel with Thamesdown in the past because they didn’t have the exact change for their journey. 

“As a result of this feedback, we plan to rectify this as soon as possible, by moving away from the current exact fare policy. 

“This will take effect over the coming weeks, whilst our team installs the equipment necessary. During this time, we ask our customers to bear with us and bring the exact change with them, just in case.

“From Sunday 26 March all our drivers will be ready and willing to issue change whenever required. 

“This move is designed to make our buses more accessible, and is just one of the improvements we intend to introduce for our customers over the coming months.”

We will of course, keep this page updated as and when we have more news for you.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 24, 2017, 23:35:39
That's a change for the better.  :P



Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: JayMac on March 16, 2017, 02:44:07
Go-Ahead are now canvassing opinion on the 'Thamesdown Transport' name.

http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6703 (link to a survey including prize draw if you opt in)

I suspect this is a precursor to a name change. Sadly, there is no option in the survey to offer up a name.

I was all ready to type 'Bussy McBusface'.

 :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: trainer on March 16, 2017, 18:58:56
I note from the current Buses magazine that Stagecoach is increasing its services in competition to the new regime.  It will be another interesting spat to watch.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on March 18, 2017, 08:51:39
Well Stagecoach are introducing new services but they are withdrawing others. 

The Sunday service on Route 17 is being withdrawn (and will now be taken over by Thamesdown - who already run the Monday to Saturday service on the route). 

Stagecoach are also stopping their Sunday services on routes 13 and 14, although Thamesdown already run a Sunday service in competition. 

There are also weekday changes on the 49 Swindon to Trowbridge with a later start in the mornings and an earlier finish.

Finally the Sunday only service on route 5 from Swindon to Salisbury will, from next month, only run between Swindon and Marlborough.



Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: wiltshirebloke on April 30, 2017, 01:50:36
so, more of a tweak than a rebrand .....

Quote
“Since welcoming Thamesdown into the Go South Coast family, we have introduced a number of positive changes, designed to further enhance the services we offer in the region,” said Andrew Wickham, Thamesdown managing director.
 
“With a fleet of new buses set to arrive shortly, we wanted to freshen up our appearance - and we called upon the services of renowned public transport designer Ray Stenning of Best Impressions. We’re delighted by the new look livery created by them.
 
“The response we received from people living and working in the area also led us to tweak our name, and I’m delighted to introduce Thamesdown…Swindon’s bus company. We love the whole new look - and we hope our customers will too.”
 
With an attractive combination of blue, yellow, red, white and green, the branding gives a nod to Thamesdown’s heritage, whilst providing a bright and refreshing new appearance.

http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888 (http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888)


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Surrey 455 on April 30, 2017, 08:19:24
so, more of a tweak than a rebrand .....

Quote
“Since welcoming Thamesdown into the Go South Coast family, we have introduced a number of positive changes, designed to further enhance the services we offer in the region,” said Andrew Wickham, Thamesdown managing director.
 
“With a fleet of new buses set to arrive shortly, we wanted to freshen up our appearance - and we called upon the services of renowned public transport designer Ray Stenning of Best Impressions. We’re delighted by the new look livery created by them.
 
“The response we received from people living and working in the area also led us to tweak our name, and I’m delighted to introduce Thamesdown…Swindon’s bus company. We love the whole new look - and we hope our customers will too.”
 
With an attractive combination of blue, yellow, red, white and green, the branding gives a nod to Thamesdown’s heritage, whilst providing a bright and refreshing new appearance.

http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888 (http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888)

Seems odd that they publish an article praising their new appearance without any images! If they haven't actually repainted anything yet I would have thought that an artists impression could be made available.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 30, 2017, 09:19:28
so, more of a tweak than a rebrand .....

Quote
“Since welcoming Thamesdown into the Go South Coast family, we have introduced a number of positive changes, designed to further enhance the services we offer in the region,” said Andrew Wickham, Thamesdown managing director.
 
“With a fleet of new buses set to arrive shortly, we wanted to freshen up our appearance - and we called upon the services of renowned public transport designer Ray Stenning of Best Impressions. We’re delighted by the new look livery created by them.
 
“The response we received from people living and working in the area also led us to tweak our name, and I’m delighted to introduce Thamesdown…Swindon’s bus company. We love the whole new look - and we hope our customers will too.”
 
With an attractive combination of blue, yellow, red, white and green, the branding gives a nod to Thamesdown’s heritage, whilst providing a bright and refreshing new appearance.

http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888 (http://www.thamesdown-transport.co.uk/feature-article.shtml?articleid=6888)

Seems odd that they publish an article praising their new appearance without any images! If they haven't actually repainted anything yet I would have thought that an artists impression could be made available.

Its Ray Stenning so will look exactly like every other ray stenning design. Go ahead have used him on many other operations, as have First with buses of Somerset and first Kernow. Both of the first companies have designs that match a go ahead livery. No doubt the new Thamesdown livery will be a design we've seen already.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Rob on the hill on May 12, 2017, 17:21:54
Some images of the new livery:
http://www.stevenknightmedia.com/fleet-news-ramblings


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: onthecushions on May 12, 2017, 18:40:04
Some images of the new livery:
http://www.stevenknightmedia.com/fleet-news-ramblings

Would also suit a bendy-bus.

OTC


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on May 14, 2017, 08:37:10
Along with today's timetable changes, the new livery hit the roads this morning.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swibus.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swibus2.jpg)

The shelters in Fleming Way have also been given a makeover

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swibusstop.jpg)

However it seems all co-operation between Thamesdown and Stagecoach has ended.  Stagecoach service 3 also uses this stop but there is no mention of it on the shelter vinyl nor the timetable.  Previously all stops in Swindon had a composite timetable which showed every service calling in chronological order.  Some now have two separate timetables while others have no Stagecoach information at all.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on May 14, 2017, 13:18:58
Looks very much like "Swindon's bus company" is the new name, a la Buses of Somerset, and that "Thamesdown" is being gently phased out.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: LiskeardRich on May 14, 2017, 14:24:06
It keeps catching my eye that buses of Somerset and first Kernow both have very Go Ahead style liveries. This further cements my opinion. Planning for a future sale? Or just the fact a director at First South West is ex Go Ahead south coast so using a design he had in his portfolios


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on July 03, 2017, 20:49:29
Looks like Stagecoach may have blinked first in the Swindon "bus wars"

The latest Notices and Proceedings from the Traffic Commissioners shows them cancelling their service 3, introduced in April, from mid-August.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: John R on July 03, 2017, 21:52:17
As an aside, I've noticed that the new livery/branding sadly means the end of the somewhat quirky feature whereby every bus has a name.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: JayMac on July 03, 2017, 23:42:33
A quirky feature that is used at another Go-Ahead company. Brighton & Hove name all their buses.
http://history.buses.co.uk/history/fleethist/busnamesintro.htm

Would have been nice if Go-Ahead had kept the names in Swindon too.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: John R on July 04, 2017, 05:03:47
Apparently the majority of Thamesdown's names are after locomotives built at Swindon.  I would agree that it would have been nice to have retained them, given the local connection.


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: bobm on July 04, 2017, 07:13:34
They have kept names in Swindon - just moved them from above the doors to the front grille.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/swiname.jpg)


Title: Re: Thamesdown Transport (Swindon) sold to Go-Ahead
Post by: John R on July 04, 2017, 08:17:08
Ah, thanks Bob!



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net