Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: simonw on January 21, 2017, 16:25:05



Title: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on January 21, 2017, 16:25:05
About five years ago the government provided £94M to fund the first phase of MetroWest, that essentially involved new line to Portishead, two new stations, four tracking to Filton and more frequent trains.

However, over recent months it appears that the essential Bristol East Jn work has disappeared from schedules, Portishead line is being reviewed due to cost and the cascade of rail stock to the west country will be reduced.

Is Metrowest dead, delayed or am I being too pessimistic?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on January 23, 2017, 10:26:27
I have an answer from official sources for you, simonw  ...

Quote
The latest report on MetroWest to the West of England's Joint Transport Board on 13 January 2017 flags up significant cost increases are expected for Phase 1 (re-opening the line to Portishead with new stations at Pill and Portishead and half hourly services on the Severn Beach Line and local stations to Bath Spa).  The report can be found at: 

http://www.westofenglandlep.co.uk/meetings/joint-transport-board

Current cost of Phase 1 is £58m.  Revised costs from Network Rail are expected at the end of January 2017 and will be reported to the Joint Transport Board on 17 March 2017.  Regrettably timescales have changed with Phase 1 now planned to open in December 2020 (formerly May 2019).

Good news is the four tracking of Filton Bank is happening and is due to be completed by December 2018 at a reported cost of £91m.  Four tracking is essential to provide the additional capacity needed to run the new MetroWest Phase 1 and 2 services. 

Similarly remodelling Bristol East Junction is required for both MetroWest Phase 1 and 2.  The news there is positive with Network Rail re-allocating £15m from the electrification budget to developing design work in Control Period 5 (2014 to 2019).  Full funding, however, is yet to be confirmed although Network Rail appears confident Bristol East Junction will be complete by December 2019.

MetroWest assumes the cascade of Class 165/6 "Thames Turbos" from the Thames Valley area as lines there are electrified.  Delays to electrification delay the cascade and the full rolling stock picture is still unclear.  The first units of the cascade have, however, started with two trains due to go into service on the Severn Beach Line on 3 July 2017.  A further 8 units will be in service by December 2017. 

So whilst there are major concerns about costs MetroWest is far from dead and work on both MetroWest Phase 1 and 2 continues.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on January 23, 2017, 15:24:42
Thanks for that.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on January 24, 2017, 09:44:24
If you've got a few minutes, it's worth having a trawl through the papers and reading the nitty gritty. Seems like GWR have plans to run a smartcard pilot on the Severn Beach line, and there are also proposals to extend services from Yate up into Gloucestershire with station reopenings.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on January 24, 2017, 11:02:03
Yep, I have heard that, but no extra trains can run until Filton four tracking has been has been completed (Dec 2018), and Bristol East Jn (Dec 2019), although longer trains may be possible soon.

An extra train will run, I believe later this year from BTM to London via BPW, so that is one extra connection to add the current (00, 30, 41, 45 minutes past the hour) time intervals.

Finally, smart ticketing would be fantastic if it linked local trains and buses, with reasonable daily|weekly|monthly caps on cost. Just having separate bus and rail smart cards costing about £20pw each is not a great idea.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on January 24, 2017, 11:27:09
... although longer trains may be possible soon.

I've heard comment on 5 car trains on "The Beach" ... but also that platform edging at Severn Beach itself has been taken away at the outer end of the platform (recently?) so that 3 cars is now the maximum that can run there.    Tempted to post this in "rumour mill" as I have no confirmation of either story, but perhaps some member(s) in the know can quickly say what's happening.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: ChrisB on March 11, 2017, 18:24:14
Three car max at Severn Beach has already been metioned in another thread?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on March 11, 2017, 19:27:25
Three car max at Severn Beach has already been metioned in another thread?

Prossibly.

I've just had a look at the databases ... and the current size of the "messages" table (uncompressed) is 165 Mbytes.   War and Peace has 587,287 words (I have not checked in person!) which is perhaps 3 or 4 Mbytes.   And it gets increasingly difficult not to repeat things (or indeed find things that you suspect may have been talked about in the past.    Actually it's quite remarkable how some of the moderator team find such repetitititions and join things up, and manage to do so in the most part in a positive way even as far as the poster of the duplication is concerned.

In new news .... another thread ....


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on March 12, 2017, 21:38:41
Just to add to this, of course the first elections for West of England Mayor are coming up in May, so at some point soon purdah will kick in and no-one will want to talk publicly about Metrowest until they are over and the views of the new administration are known.

Of course it will quite possibly be significant that North Somerset chose not to join in, and that unless they are prepared to chip in some more dosh, then it's possible that Portishead won't happen (at least not in CP5/6) and any money in the pot will end up being spent within the other three authorities instead. Suggestions have been made that the focus could change to upgrading the Severn Beach line and reopening the Henbury line instead. 

It's also worth considering that Ladbrooke's odds have the Lib Deb candidate as evens, Conservatives at 11/10 and Labour at 7/1. The Lib-Dem candidate is strong and an ex-Bristol West MP. The Conservative candidate is a South Gloucestershire Councillor. I'm not sure that either offer much encouragement for getting much done in the way of railways, particularly where it requires the cooperation of Bristol's Mayor. But we live in hope.   


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: JayMac on March 12, 2017, 22:37:59
Suggestions have been made that the focus could change to upgrading the Severn Beach line and reopening the Henbury line instead. 

That would serve IRNS (Independent Republic of North Somerset) right!  :P ;) ;D

An area whose politicians seem to want to ignore the fact they are right next to a big city.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 13, 2017, 09:27:01
I don't think it's fair to call them an "Independent Republic". I think they're more closely modelled on Liechtenstein...  ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: trainer on March 13, 2017, 22:50:14
I don't think it's fair to call them an "Independent Republic". I think they're more closely modelled on Liechtenstein...  ;)

You mean they're rich and leech off all the count(r)ies around them without contributing back?    :D


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on March 14, 2017, 06:14:12
Perhaps NS needs to invoke Article 48 of the Weimar Republic 1918-33 in order to get the damn thing built. Given the current leadership, I don't think it could punch its way out of  a wet paper bag.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on March 14, 2017, 11:04:40
Suggestions have been made that the focus could change to upgrading the Severn Beach line and reopening the Henbury line instead. 

That would serve IRNS (Independent Republic of North Somerset) right!  :P ;) ;D

An area whose politicians seem to want to ignore the fact they are right next to a big city.

Not sure what you mean? Severn Beach and Henbury lines are mostly Bristol with a teeny bit of South Gloucestershire. My point is that with south Bristol resignalling being deferred and North Somerset not joining in on the regional deal, it's easy to see how the focus could move north of Temple Meads, leaving North Somerset sidelined and Portishead on ice. 

As for North Somerset - the irony is of course that by not joining in, the population balance is roughly 50/50 between Bristol and SG/BANES, whereas if North Somerset joined in, the balance would be far more in their favour. Perhaps they are holding out to join Devon and Cornwall in some kind of West of England superstate?





Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 14, 2017, 12:04:42
Suggestions have been made that the focus could change to upgrading the Severn Beach line and reopening the Henbury line instead. 

That would serve IRNS (Independent Republic of North Somerset) right!  :P ;) ;D

An area whose politicians seem to want to ignore the fact they are right next to a big city.

Not sure what you mean? Severn Beach and Henbury lines are mostly Bristol with a teeny bit of South Gloucestershire. My point is that with south Bristol resignalling being deferred and North Somerset not joining in on the regional deal, it's easy to see how the focus could move north of Temple Meads, leaving North Somerset sidelined and Portishead on ice. 
The way I understood it, that was BNM's point: that N. Somerset want access for their residents to the big bad city but don't want to join in with the administration of the region, and as a result[?] they don't get that access.

Quote
As for North Somerset - the irony is of course that by not joining in, the population balance is roughly 50/50 between Bristol and SG/BANES, whereas if North Somerset joined in, the balance would be far more in their favour. Perhaps they are holding out to join Devon and Cornwall in some kind of West of England superstate?
I wrote to MEPs the other day (nothing to do with railways, transport or regional government) and as a result discovered that "the South West of England" includes... Gibraltar! I look forward to a different sort of Avon-Rock Railway!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on March 14, 2017, 13:12:40
As for North Somerset - the irony is of course that by not joining in, the population balance is roughly 50/50 between Bristol and SG/BANES, whereas if North Somerset joined in, the balance would be far more in their favour. Perhaps they are holding out to join Devon and Cornwall in some kind of West of England superstate?

I recall at one time North Somerset was part of Somerset ... perhaps they're looking to work with the team at Taunton on public transport support and development once again?    Would this be a good idea?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 14, 2017, 13:25:10
In terms of the Portishead line specifically or more generally commuting to Bristol, it wouldn't. It might be that a large number of N.Som residents do commute or otherwise travel regularly to Taunton, though. But I don't think their reasons for rejecting the "metro mayor" idea were anything to do with transport.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on March 14, 2017, 14:10:38
In terms of the Portishead line specifically or more generally commuting to Bristol, it wouldn't. It might be that a large number of N.Som residents do commute or otherwise travel regularly to Taunton, though. But I don't think their reasons for rejecting the "metro mayor" idea were anything to do with transport.

Frome, which is (already) in the main Somerset seems more generally used for commuting to Bath (and Trowbridge), with their transport controls in Taunton being regarded as illogical by many.  So I have to agree that having Portishead in Somerset was something I suggested somewhat in devil's advocate mode!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on March 14, 2017, 20:58:54
In terms of the Portishead line specifically or more generally commuting to Bristol, it wouldn't. It might be that a large number of N.Som residents do commute or otherwise travel regularly to Taunton, though. But I don't think their reasons for rejecting the "metro mayor" idea were anything to do with transport.

North Somerset is effectively Weston-Super-Mare, which is a fairly major population centre with a lot of recently built housing, large industrial sheds etc., and it seems to me that the council is very keen to preserve its independence. 

Of course it it also includes Portishead, Pill and the south Bristol commuter belt, who in many ways might get a better deal if they were in Bristol, particularly on transport, but I suspect that it comes down to schools and preferring more suburban-minded local-government.

 



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 14, 2017, 21:32:15
I'm posting this here in a purely personal capacity, not as an administrator of the Coffee Shop forum.

The council area of 'North Somerset', while apparently politically tied into Weston-super-Mare, does also include Congresbury, Yatton, Backwell, Nailsea and Long Ashton - many of whose residents would like to see increased options of travelling by public transport if they were allowed to be part of the 'metro mayor' idea.





Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 14, 2017, 21:52:26
But I don't think their reasons for rejecting the "metro mayor" idea were anything to do with transport.

North Somerset has worked hard on the Portishead line project for a number of years. It owns the trackbed from the junction with Royal Portbury Dock into the town. It tried (unsuccessfully) to launch its own bid for the funding to pay for the reopening from another jam jar at the treasury than is normally used. It paid for the vegetation to be cleared from the line when no-one was asking for it to be done, and has taken the lead in planning the station. That makes their reversion to parish council status a bit odd, but I have two theories.

The first is that they remember with horror the Bristocentric nature of the county formerly known as Avon. That is understandable - it was a dog's breakfast of the worst order. The outlying areas were then much smaller than Bristol, and the big city got the lion's share of things. However, the Metro Mayor won't have control of everything that Avon did. Transport and planning, yes, but not social services or education other than adult skills. Avon might have been dead for over 20 years, though, but the political composition of parts of North Somerset council has changed little. In the current climate, you could probably stick a blue rosette on one of the donkeys in Weston, and it would win. I am not sure that the local populace are really up for regime change, nor that Portishead railway matters much to anyone outside of Portishead and Pill.

The second is my conspiracy theory. Here, North Somerset council, having promoted MetroBust and, with South Gloucestershire and some pre-mayoral Bristol councillors having shafted the previous mayor by signing contracts six months before he was elected, now realises that the whole thing is a toxic shambles. The day will come when even the spin doctors at MetroBust HQ lose the rictus grin and the Comical Ali view of truth, and everyone will start trying to blame everyone else. Except North Somerset parish council, who will stand at the back, whistling softly.

Does it matter for the Portishead railway? I don't think so. MetroWest has a life of its own, and is of vital importance to Bristol and South Gloucestershire. North Somerset may not care if its taxpayers leave for work in Bristol by car, but Bristol certainly doesn't want them arriving by private transport. The rail minister is said to see the national significance of the line and to be in favour of it, but someone will need to show him that £15 million per mile is good value. That could be tough.

Someone had better invent some new Benefit / Cost Ratio figures PDQ.  It's easy enough. You start with the answer you want, then work backwards to make the data fit. It worked for MetroBust.

I wrote to MEPs the other day (nothing to do with railways, transport or regional government) and as a result discovered that "the South West of England" includes... Gibraltar! I look forward to a different sort of Avon-Rock Railway!

I recall the reasoning for this from way back in 1999 when the European Court of Human Rights held that Gibraltar was entitled to vote in European elections. Gibraltar is too small for a MEP of its own, so it was lumped on with the South West constituency to comply with the judgement.

That, and it annoys the Spanish intensely.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on March 15, 2017, 09:06:49
In terms of the Portishead line specifically or more generally commuting to Bristol, it wouldn't. It might be that a large number of N.Som residents do commute or otherwise travel regularly to Taunton, though. But I don't think their reasons for rejecting the "metro mayor" idea were anything to do with transport.

North Somerset is effectively Weston-Super-Mare, which is a fairly major population centre with a lot of recently built housing, large industrial sheds etc., and it seems to me that the council is very keen to preserve its independence. 

Of course it it also includes Portishead, Pill and the south Bristol commuter belt, who in many ways might get a better deal if they were in Bristol, particularly on transport, but I suspect that it comes down to schools and preferring more suburban-minded local-government.
On schools, I know someone who lives in south Bristol – in fact a stone's throw from Bedminster station – and chose to send her daughter to a secondary school somewhere along the Pill-Portishead corridor (I can't remember exactly where) despite it meaning an hour or so bus journey, because she'd heard dreadful things about the local schools. Now, two years in, it turns out she might have made a bad choice, and not (only) because of the long journey.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2017, 10:13:22

On schools, I know someone who lives in south Bristol – in fact a stone's throw from Bedminster station – and chose to send her daughter to a secondary school somewhere along the Pill-Portishead corridor (I can't remember exactly where) despite it meaning an hour or so bus journey, because she'd heard dreadful things about the local schools. Now, two years in, it turns out she might have made a bad choice, and not (only) because of the long journey.

Could be in Ham Green, in which case it has recently become an academy. If it was that one, it was rated "Good" in its pre-conversion report by OFSTED. The secondary school 5 minutes walk from her front door has been assessed as "Outstanding"


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: trainer on March 15, 2017, 18:49:36
Could be in Ham Green, in which case it has recently become an academy.

St Katherine's School in Ham Green does indeed have a bus connection into Bristol specifically for pupils (Carmel X5) and has always attracted custom from 'over the border'.

...they [North Somerset Council] remember with horror the Bristocentric nature of the county formerly known as Avon. That is understandable - it was a dog's breakfast of the worst order.

It is still common to hear blame for the ills of North Somerset blamed on the legacy of Avon and around here (I am a resident of Clevedon) it is still hung over us as a warning whenever closer integration with the wider region is touted as a challenge to the current politburo in Weston-super-Mare.  However, as an employee of the former Avon, I found the Education Dept to be very inclusive and supportive and generally good to work for.  It had sufficient size to include alternatives if one found a particularly awkward member of the County Staff and a breadth of understanding because it did include city and rural experience.  It was not in any way perfect, but certainly not as bad as the more emotionally charged accusers made out.

On transport matters we have the daft situation of buses subsidised to operate entirely within the tiny geographical area which is North Somerset, when many (most?) need to travel into the City That Dare Not Speak Its Name rather than connecting villages to the regional hub.  The Portishead line would be a welcome exception to this rule and to be fair, as FT,N has pointed out, NSC was pro-active in showing willing to get the thing going again. Nevertheless, for the most part our tiny republic suffers from a myopia that cannot see eastwards beyond Long Ashton or Blagdon.

Incidentally, the Conservatives have in the past faced opposition which forced them from power (Lib Dems), but it is true that this area is conservative and Conservative on the whole.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: John R on March 15, 2017, 19:08:29

On schools, I know someone who lives in south Bristol – in fact a stone's throw from Bedminster station – and chose to send her daughter to a secondary school somewhere along the Pill-Portishead corridor (I can't remember exactly where) despite it meaning an hour or so bus journey, because she'd heard dreadful things about the local schools. Now, two years in, it turns out she might have made a bad choice, and not (only) because of the long journey.

Could be in Ham Green, in which case it has recently become an academy. If it was that one, it was rated "Good" in its pre-conversion report by OFSTED. The secondary school 5 minutes walk from her front door has been assessed as "Outstanding"

Quite a few students from south Bristol study at Backwell, also an "Outstanding" School for some years now and being 10 mins walk from the station almost certainly a shorter journey than Ham Green. Though clearly not as close as the one on their doorstep.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on March 15, 2017, 19:30:49
The A&E department in North Somerset of Ashton & Elfan could well be an Accident and Emergency in itself. Perhaps the decision to go it alone, without joining in with  the Metro Mayor could be seen as an all too avoidable accident, whilst the trebling of the cost of the Portishead railway needs some swift emergency action if the whole scheme is not to hit the buffers. And I mean buffers in both senses of the word.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2017, 23:37:58
I named no names. My "children" (oldest nearly 37) attended the nearest to our friend's friend's nearest option. They haven't turned out too bad, whearas I first shared a football pitch with Paul Scholes, although in different years and with much less success, then moved home to share a grammar school with the legendary "Gorgeous" George Carmen QC et al.

I still ended up a piece of work with little to make a living from except from the ability to blag it in both English and sort-of French. I haven't done too badly, so ponder the matter of education over life experience.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2017, 23:39:39
I should add that other schools are available, and may make you a multi-millionaire if you do IT studies in hacking etc.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 02, 2017, 12:14:33
Earlier mentions on this thread referring to cascaded Turbos reaching the Severn Beach line gave a possible May 2017 date (or so I seem to recall). That was admittedly, an early estimate. Has there been any new date issued? Are they possibly going to be introduced with the start of the smart ticketing facilities on the line?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 02, 2017, 12:46:12
Earlier mentions on this thread referring to cascaded Turbos reaching the Severn Beach line gave a possible May 2017 date (or so I seem to recall). That was admittedly, an early estimate. Has there been any new date issued? Are they possibly going to be introduced with the start of the smart ticketing facilities on the line?

My latest understanding is that really hasn't changed very much ... should be down to counting in weeks not years now. However, stock released from the line (and other turbos release in the Thames Valley) may have to fill other gaps left by stock leaving GWR rather than for augmenting [any] services.    Really frustrating when the only TransWilts train between 15:12 and 18:48 is getting beyond "full and standing" and into "can't fit on" territory!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 02, 2017, 12:47:55
July 3rd was the last I heard, (how accurate this is I don't know) which should also be the date a handful more turbos become available as a result of an increase in electric services to Maidenhead.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 02, 2017, 12:56:53
Blimey, we may yet see Dtrain on the Severn Beach then! 😀


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on June 02, 2017, 13:04:21
Why does GWR have to release stock to other railway companies, when the stock allocated to it has not arrived on time?

I appreciate that other companies have major issues as well, but why should GWR and its customers suffer alone?

There are many local journeys that could do with longer or more frequent services, sooner rather than later.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 02, 2017, 13:10:32
Good question Simon.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 02, 2017, 13:18:16
Why does GWR have to release stock to other railway companies, when the stock allocated to it has not arrived on time?

I appreciate that other companies have major issues as well, but why should GWR and its customers suffer alone?

There are many local journeys that could do with longer or more frequent services, sooner rather than later.

Good question Simon.

I rather suspect that those others suffer due to their "major issues" too, Simonw and Johnneyw

Much of it depends on terms of contracts too, and what the DfT and RoSCOs will sanction.  But I can well imagine that a contact for (say) a 150/1 might be "until December 2017", with their new home specifying "Delivery for December 2017 timetable, daily penalty of £x,xxxx if they're late!".  Under such a situation, the current operator has a choice of holding on to them "illegally" or returning them, and holding on isn't going to do much good with the leasing companies next time they want to borrow a train for a few years, or with the DfT when awarding the next franchise.

Things like the "Pocket Rockets", and retention of some 153s and 143s, mean that delays to enhancements are said to be more in months that years, but the alternative isn't instant and indeed the need for the alternative wasn't fully appreciated until their fitting out / conversion was on the critical path.  There's been an awful lot going on!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 02, 2017, 13:34:05
So, Dtrain still a contender then? ☺


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 15, 2017, 22:51:37
A regular Severn Riviera Express user friend of mine said she was on one of the new swanky stock today. Can this be true?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on June 16, 2017, 13:59:50
A regular Severn Riviera Express user friend of mine said she was on one of the new swanky stock today. Can this be true?

I didn't think the turbos were running on it yet, but not impossible, probably just green refurbished stock. GWR have done a nice job..


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on June 16, 2017, 21:21:42
 From GWR website

More seats arriving shortly
You might have noticed some of our trains running with fewer carriages than normal recently. This is because we’re carrying out a big upgrade programme.

So, from Monday 3 July, we’ll start running extra ‘Turbo’ trains on the Severn Beach line; helping us to add more carriages to the busiest trains on other routes.

Later in the year, we’ll do the same in the wider Bristol area.

In the meantime, we’ll continue to do our best to provide extra seats where they are needed most.

Thanks for your patience.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 16, 2017, 21:45:24
July 3rd was the last I heard, (how accurate this is I don't know) which should also be the date a handful more turbos become available as a result of an increase in electric services to Maidenhead.

It is very accurate: Mark Hopwood (Managing Director, Great Western Railway) confirmed that to us at the GWR Community Rail conference in Barnstaple this morning.  ;)



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on June 19, 2017, 13:05:41
Excellent 4 page article by Andrew Mourant in RAIL magazine (issue 829) with the title 'Metrowest meets a costly stumbling block'. Tried to find an online link to it , but failed.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: trainer on June 19, 2017, 13:41:26
Tried to find an online link to it , but failed.

I suspect they want us to buy the magazine and thus pay their journalists. ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: rogerw on June 19, 2017, 15:06:58
The edition that it is in is not published until wednesday although subscriptions copies arrived today.  They do an on line version but this is subscription only.  I suspect that archives are available at a later date.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 19, 2017, 18:11:21
Sorry to interrupt the serious discussion, but when I see this heading I can't help thinking "Metrow, metrower, ... "  ;D


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 29, 2017, 23:12:15
Looks like Portway Park and ride has the nod. Strengthens the Metrowest case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-40433015


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 30, 2017, 06:26:57
WHY ;-

£500,000 for pedestrian and cycling routes through the centre of Weston-super-Mare

when North Somerset opted out of the Metro Mayor set-up ????


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 30, 2017, 07:14:29
WHY ;-

£500,000 for pedestrian and cycling routes through the centre of Weston-super-Mare

when North Somerset opted out of the Metro Mayor set-up ????

I'm sure there's a good reason ... but I don't fully (!) understand how the "West of England" and MetroWest areas interact.  Isn't Portishead in North Somerset too?    Perhaps North Somerset is buying in to bits it wants like the UK might buy in to bits of Brexit?   Of course, it would be logical for the main area to accept that buy-in only if it results in mutual advantage.

The question raises an interesting one for wider areas too.  The Bristol / Bath travel-to-work area goes beyond the "West of England" - into Mendip at Frome, into Wiltshire at Trowbridge and indeed at towns like Corsham which have a vey heavy flow into Bath.  Transport is needed for those flows and public transport (from Corsham at least, which is the closest to me) is pathetically slow, taking 45 minutes from the centre of Corsham at Newlands Road to Bath bus station, where a train would take 12 minutes.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 30, 2017, 09:20:52
NorSomxit? !!!

But as with all these things, announcement today, GRIP tomorrow, delay next week, I'll believe it when it's actually open. 


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on June 30, 2017, 09:56:52
WHY ;-

£500,000 for pedestrian and cycling routes through the centre of Weston-super-Mare

when North Somerset opted out of the Metro Mayor set-up ????

I'm sure there's a good reason ... but I don't fully (!) understand how the "West of England" and MetroWest areas interact.  Isn't Portishead in North Somerset too?    Perhaps North Somerset is buying in to bits it wants like the UK might buy in to bits of Brexit?   Of course, it would be logical for the main area to accept that buy-in only if it results in mutual advantage.

The question raises an interesting one for wider areas too.  The Bristol / Bath travel-to-work area goes beyond the "West of England" - into Mendip at Frome, into Wiltshire at Trowbridge and indeed at towns like Corsham which have a vey heavy flow into Bath.  Transport is needed for those flows and public transport (from Corsham at least, which is the closest to me) is pathetically slow, taking 45 minutes from the centre of Corsham at Newlands Road to Bath bus station, where a train would take 12 minutes.

Those allocations of money were decided by the West of England Joint Committee, which combines the four local authorities in the LEP (the three in the West of England Combined Authority plus North Somerset). The transport proposals presumably came via the LEP, so in effect this is the governmental bit of the LEP anyway.

The WoECA describe what they do thus:
Quote
The West of England Combined Authority (WECA) is made up of three of the local authorities in the region – Bath & North East Somerset, Bristol and South Gloucestershire. Working with our partners including the West of England Local Enterprise Partnership, North Somerset Council and other local service providers, our aim is to deliver economic growth for the region and address some of the challenges, such as productivity and skills, housing and transport.
...
WECA will also provide support to the West of England LEP Board and to the Joint West of England Committee, which includes North Somerset Council.

Presumably North Somerset's status as "partner" means as much or as little as they and the MMayor want it to.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on July 06, 2017, 22:47:32
All rather seems to have muddied the waters?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 21, 2017, 22:55:00
Some rather grand and very long term future plans in today's Evening Post:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/ambitious-89billion-transport-plan-bristol-222075

I just hope that not too much money was spent putting this together given it's more of an arguably fanciful wishlist. Not sure that any plan projected that far forward ever ends up even vaguely similar to the original.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: trainer on July 22, 2017, 09:37:13
Some rather grand and very long term future plans in today's Evening Post:

In the 40+ years that I have lived in the Greater Bristol area I have yet to see any successful plan to cut road congestion come to fruition.  This fanciful paper is as likely to see any fulfilment as previous schemes to provide light rail or other non-road based projects. I hope I haven't unwittingly contributed to its production through by local taxes. My skepticism is based entirely on experience not prejudice.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 22, 2017, 20:26:17
Underground trains all the way out to the airport? Ha ha ha!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Oberon on July 22, 2017, 21:40:18
This daft underground scheme to Bristol airport would cost just about as much as Crossrail to build!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 22, 2017, 22:19:13
I don't think they're seriously suggesting sub-surface all the way to the airport. But then, I don't think they're seriously suggesting much of it...

Just imagine what would be possible, though, if your town had a pro-rated equivalent of London's transport budget...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on July 24, 2017, 15:16:28
I don't think they're seriously suggesting sub-surface all the way to the airport. But then, I don't think they're seriously suggesting much of it...

Just imagine what would be possible, though, if your town had a pro-rated equivalent of London's transport budget...

It will finish up as another MetroBust route.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 28, 2017, 13:30:41
A little boost for Metrowest just announced:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/five-new-stations-funded.html

Hopefully this can get started soon.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on July 28, 2017, 14:23:22
A little boost for Metrowest just announced:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/five-new-stations-funded.html

Hopefully this can get started soon.

Ooh, look! Reading Green Park funded to go ahead again!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 28, 2017, 14:48:07
If it's worth announcing once, it's worth announcing half-a-dozen times!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on July 28, 2017, 21:16:07
Comment on article in the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-new-train-station-2020-249286)

Quote
£2.2 million for a platform? Don't be silly. I know everything is expensive nowadays but come on. A few blocks, a bit of concrete and a gang of workmen doesn't equate to that ridiculous amount. As someone mentioned previously when this article came up. It would of made more sense to build the park and ride next to the existing station at Shirehampton.

There is indeed something to be said for building facilities near the stations rather than stations near facilities.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: John R on July 28, 2017, 21:34:50
Agree, but we are where we are (or more accurately, the P&R is where it is), so that option went many years ago.

It will be interesting to see how well it is used, in comparison with the bus service. I'd have thought the bus would be more attractive in terms of City Centre/Harbourside bound passengers, particularly given the frequency of service, with the rail service more attractive for the Temple Quay office area. With only (hopefully by then) a train every half an hour, if congestion means you just miss one service, that's a relatively long wait. 


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 28, 2017, 22:08:42
Is it more expensive and difficult to build a platform and gubbins or to build a new car park with a bus shelter? I don't know, but perhaps the road access to the P&R is the swaying factor.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 28, 2017, 22:20:16
Whatever happened to the much cheaper prefabricated type of platform that was being mooted a few years back? I recall it was portrayed as a game changer in terms of affordability for Portway Station.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 28, 2017, 22:21:28
I don't remember what debate took place when the decision was made to build the Park and Ride on derelict industrial land in the shadow of a motorway flyover instead of on local beauty spot The Daisy Field, which is the only obvious site adjoining Shirehampton Station but, on balance and in my humble opinion, I think they got it about right. And while it does mean we'll have three stations within 2.5 km of each other, I'm not going to volunteer that either Shirehampton or Avonmouth should be closed - on the grounds that some bright spark might point out that Montpelier, my local station, is even closer to Redland.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on July 29, 2017, 06:37:45
I don't remember what debate took place when the decision was made to build the Park and Ride on derelict industrial land in the shadow of a motorway flyover instead of on local beauty spot The Daisy Field, which is the only obvious site adjoining Shirehampton Station but, on balance and in my humble opinion, I think they got it about right. And while it does mean we'll have three stations within 2.5 km of each other, I'm not going to volunteer that either Shirehampton or Avonmouth should be closed - on the grounds that some bright spark might point out that Montpelier, my local station, is even closer to Redland.

There gets to be a point where it's "enough consulting - let's get on and DO it" and I'm pretty sure we're at that point on Portway Parkway (it's been talked about for so long!).  I posted the press comment as it seemed a good reminder question for those of us who don't live nearby; expected outcome being re-assurance rather than any "hey, that's a good idea".


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on July 29, 2017, 08:12:02

There comes a point when you say 'enough consultation= lets get on and DO IT .....

I feel the same about the Portishead line !


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 29, 2017, 09:52:45
Perhaps now with the upcoming abolishment of diesel road vehicles, METROWEST should be considered for conversion to electric buses that are recharged on the move.  I have an idea.  Lets call them Trolleybuses.... ::) ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: ellendune on July 29, 2017, 10:25:00
Its only diesel and petrol cars that will be banned! Not buses. They say that electric cars will be cheaper to run, but I suspect that they will still be more expensive to buy and (unless battery life is extended) maintain.  The cynic in me wonders whether they hope poorer people may be priced out of owning cars while the rich get more road space as a result.   


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 29, 2017, 11:34:42
Its only diesel and petrol cars that will be banned! Not buses. They say that electric cars will be cheaper to run, but I suspect that they will still be more expensive to buy and (unless battery life is extended) maintain.  The cynic in me wonders whether they hope poorer people may be priced out of owning cars while the rich get more road space as a result.   

Hang on - doesn't this belong to the topic 'Great Western Main Line Electrification...'?  ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 29, 2017, 13:04:27
Looks like things are moving on the Stapleton Viaduct.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FOSBR/status/891253222970707968/photo/1?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=fb&utm_campaign=FOSBR&utm_content=891253222970707968


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on July 29, 2017, 14:31:51
Its only diesel and petrol cars that will be banned! Not buses. They say that electric cars will be cheaper to run, but I suspect that they will still be more expensive to buy and (unless battery life is extended) maintain.  The cynic in me wonders whether they hope poorer people may be priced out of owning cars while the rich get more road space as a result.   

That's known as Clarkson Syndrome.
And as for battery operated cars !
We will end up paying more for the vehicles and then have a leasing arrangement to cover the use of batteries.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on July 29, 2017, 14:43:17
There is a little irony in the government admitting that petrol|diesel cars are bad for the environment, and at the same timing ordering more diesel train options and cancelling electrification projects.

The new WoE Mayor better get start planning and campaigning for full electrification of MetroWest over the next few years as it is deployed.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on July 31, 2017, 19:54:51
Whatever happened to the much cheaper prefabricated type of platform that was being mooted a few years back? I recall it was portrayed as a game changer in terms of affordability for Portway Station.

Indeed. I recall Councillor Tim Kent announcing that it would cost £400,000, and open in 2013.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 31, 2017, 20:41:45
Whatever happened to the much cheaper prefabricated type of platform that was being mooted a few years back? I recall it was portrayed as a game changer in terms of affordability for Portway Station.

Indeed. I recall Councillor Tim Kent announcing that it would cost £400,000, and open in 2013.

Either this is the cheaper, sorry, more cost effective option being wastefully overlooked or else the original estimates themselves overlooked associated costs (signalling, for example).


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on July 31, 2017, 21:23:40

Either this is the cheaper, sorry, more cost effective option being wastefully overlooked or else the original estimates themselves overlooked associated costs (signalling, for example).

I'm not sure which. Signalling shouldn't be an issue as it's single line at that point. The platform was supposed to be a modular thing, slotted together on site. Maybe the extra four years of delay has had an inflationary effect. My own feeling is it's more to try to generate business for a Park and Ride that has always been quiet than anything else.

Anyway, the funding has been confirmed, according to the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40755739):

Quote
Five new rail stations to 'boost' regional economies
28 July 2017

The Department For Transport will invest more than £16m in the new stations
Five new rail stations should be completed by March 2020 after funding was confirmed, officials have said.
The Department For Transport (DFT) said it will invest more than £16m in four stations in England and one in Wales.
The stations will be at Horden in County Durham, Warrington West in Cheshire, Reading Green Park, Portway Parkway in Bristol and Bow Street in Ceredigion.
Durham County Council said the Horden stop would be a big employment boost.
Leader Simon Henig said: "The station will greatly enhance commuters' ability to reach employment sites across the region and will be served by more than 20 trains a day heading north and south.
"It will also act as a park and ride, with spaces for more than 100 commuters."

Rail minister Paul Maynard said the stations would create employment opportunities
The DFT is providing £4.4m towards the £10.55m station with the rest coming from the county council and North East Combined Authority.
The £17.2m Warrington West station, which is getting £4.23 from the DFT, should reduce congestion on the M62 and support new houses in the area, the department said.
Reading Green Park will receive £2.3m towards a total project cost of £16.5m with the DFT saying it "has the potential to unlock 7,500 new jobs and 1,500 homes".
The £2.23m Portway Parkway, which is getting £1.672m from the DFT, will serve an existing park and ride site and aims to reduce congestion on inner Bristol roads.
Rail minister Paul Maynard said: "The stations will improve access to the rail network and create new leisure, training, employment and business opportunities, as well as supporting new housing developments.
"All of the stations will be completed by March 2020."

The £550,000-odd not being met by DfT will presumably be picked up by Bristol City Council alone - I shall look at the report for the next council meeting. It looks as if the original idea of a simple platform may have been slightly upgraded - Portway Parkway sounds a little grand.

For all the things I have said that may sound a little negative, the idea has merit, especially as so much is happening around Temple Meads. Not only is the commercial centre of Bristol moving that way, the University are about to build a new campus there, and then there's the Arenal if it ever gets off the drawing board. There may also be passengers heading for Clifton Down for the Uni and BBC, and even, for the savvy cricket fan on big match days, Montpelier. I wish it well, but I hope it is future-proof - I can't see that line staying single forever, and at least thought of a footbridge would possibly save a few quid when the day comes.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: trainer on July 31, 2017, 22:14:46
Maybe the extra four years of delay has had an inflationary effect.

You mean they're now considering something like a bouncy castle?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on July 31, 2017, 22:20:05
Maybe the extra four years of delay has had an inflationary effect.

You mean they're now considering something like a bouncy castle?

Now that will make boarding and alighting  much more fun.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on August 01, 2017, 02:40:09
The £550,000-odd not being met by DfT will presumably be picked up by Bristol City Council alone - I shall look at the report for the next council meeting. It looks as if the original idea of a simple platform may have been slightly upgraded - Portway Parkway sounds a little grand.

Does the £2.23 million include a 60% optimism uplift?   If so, the calculated cost prior to uplift is £1.4 million, leaving change from the DfT's £1.672 million - no half million needed locally.  Of course, that's assuming they don't find newts, bats, a roman villa, a Georgian well, a slipping embankment or a retired lawyer who objects nearby.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on August 01, 2017, 07:54:02
Roman remains of a sort are closer to SML  Sea Mills just down the road a bit !.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on August 01, 2017, 12:47:51
Roman remains of a sort are closer to SML  Sea Mills just down the road a bit !.

Long Cross in nearby Lawrence Weston follows the route of a Roman road from Sea Mills to Gloucester. It was found during building work for the council estate, and quickly concreted over.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on August 01, 2017, 13:07:41
Roman remains of a sort are closer to SML  Sea Mills just down the road a bit !.

Long Cross in nearby Lawrence Weston follows the route of a Roman road from Sea Mills to Gloucester. It was found during building work for the council estate, and quickly concreted over.

What a shame it wasn't used as the basis for a new rail line .....


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on August 01, 2017, 22:28:56
Maybe the extra four years of delay has had an inflationary effect.

You mean they're now considering something like a bouncy castle?

Value engineering taken to the limits of absurdity. I just hope no-one from the LEP saw that post, as they'll be on the phone to Atkins asking for a £5 million feasibility study.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 08, 2017, 13:23:41
...at least thought of a footbridge would possibly save a few quid when the day comes.

Ha, ha, ha, he says with a note of heavy irony. One of these days you'll bite your tongue off.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on August 09, 2017, 19:57:32
Doesn't say much but at least the Henbury loop looks like it's not totally dead in the water yet.

https://mobile.twitter.com/darrenpjones/status/894861618609348608


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: JayMac on August 09, 2017, 21:35:11
Yes, let's hope the Western Super Mayor has the clout and desire to revive Henbury Loop plans.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on August 10, 2017, 22:50:13
Yes, let's hope the Western Super Mayor has the clout and desire to revive Henbury Loop plans.

Well it would appear that Andy Street managed to shoehorn in the reopening of Wolverhampton to Walsall to passenger trains (with two intermediate station reopenings) in the new WM franchise, which is cause for optimism.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on August 15, 2017, 22:41:30
The Evening Post headline rather gives the impression of greater activity than it transpires there actually is but it is progress all the same:


http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/portway-park-ride-train-station-326954


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on August 31, 2017, 22:14:34
Can anyone tell me if the Vivarail Dtrain has a narrow enough gauge to negate the problems of the tunnels on the Portishead line reopening?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on August 31, 2017, 22:32:46
Can anyone tell me if the Vivarail Dtrain has a narrow enough gauge to negate the problems of the tunnels on the Portishead line reopening?

Given the size of the freight traffic through those tunnels, and the lowering of the floor in 2000-2001, I am not sure that gauge is the issue.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 01, 2017, 10:05:09
The Evening Post headline rather gives the impression of greater activity than it transpires there actually is but it is progress all the same:


http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/portway-park-ride-train-station-326954

I found it amusing to compare this with the press release on the Bristol City Council website (http://news.bristol.gov.uk/portway_new_railway_station_works_underway) which, one has to presume, was its source - a bit like marking the homework of someone whose tried to disguise the fact that they copied it from Wikipedia, but couldn't quite be bothered. 


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on September 01, 2017, 10:45:49
Can anyone tell me if the Vivarail Dtrain has a narrow enough gauge to negate the problems of the tunnels on the Portishead line reopening?

Given the size of the freight traffic through those tunnels, and the lowering of the floor in 2000-2001, I am not sure that gauge is the issue.

Ah, I read that issues with the tunnel meant that significant speed reduction or
expensive tunnel modification was needed, hence the sudden cost increase announced earlier this year. Admittedly, one of my sources was the Evening Post and I am allowing for my own capability to misinterpret information but I was left with the impression that the proposed stock for the Portishead line could not run at the speed required in the tunnels for the 1/2 hourly service.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on February 20, 2018, 22:33:21
Interesting interview on the John Darvall Show, BBC Radio Bristol today (Tuesday) with the Deputy Metro Mayor Tim Warren. About 40 mins in the discussion reaches Metrowest. He states here that Severn Beach to Westbury is currently being discussed between Tim Bowles, the Metro Mayor and the government and would take presidence over the Portishead line. At about 50 mins the discussion covers the Bristol and Bath tram/ underground options. Worth a listen and is on iPlayer for quite a few days.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 20, 2018, 23:33:59
Interesting interview on the John Darvall Show, BBC Radio Bristol today (Tuesday) with the Deputy Metro Mayor Tim Warren. About 40 mins in the discussion reaches Metrowest. He states here that Severn Beach to Westbury is currently being discussed between Tim Bowles, the Metro Mayor and the government and would take presidence over the Portishead line. At about 50 mins the discussion covers the Bristol and Bath tram/ underground options. Worth a listen and is on iPlayer for quite a few days.

I'm sure Severn Beach to Westbury was under discussion way back in the days when the LEP held the pursestrings and kicked cans down roads. IIRC, MetroWest had a planned route from Severn Beach to Bath, but some difficulty in working out how to turn it around. Westbury was mentioned as a logical extension to get around that issue, but I thought it was just to delay making a decision so that the new service wouldn't happen before MetroBust and make it look rubbish. I might still be right.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 21, 2018, 18:06:02
... I thought it was just to delay making a decision so that the new service wouldn't happen before MetroBust and make it look rubbish. I might still be right.

Surely there was never any intention to make any changes to the Severn Beach line until they had finished that bit of gardening on Ashley Hill?





Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 21, 2018, 22:01:53
They are working hard to fulfill my prophecy! A shame for the inhabitants of the shanty town, but you have to move with the times.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on February 21, 2018, 22:54:43
Surely there was never any intention to make any changes to the Severn Beach line until they had finished that bit of gardening on Ashley Hill?

Hmmm ... your image of Ashely Hill differs from mine

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/ashleyhill.jpg)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on February 21, 2018, 23:14:35
They look so different out of their orange overalls.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on February 21, 2018, 23:19:04
I'm sure Severn Beach to Westbury was under discussion way back in the days when the LEP held the pursestrings and kicked cans down roads. IIRC, MetroWest had a planned route from Severn Beach to Bath, but some difficulty in working out how to turn it around. Westbury was mentioned as a logical extension to get around that issue ...

6 paths out of Temple Meads per hour
:00 to London via Bath Spa
:10 to Portsmouth Harbour
:16 to Westbury (or Frome)
:30 to London via Bath Spa
:40 to Swindon and Oxford
:46 to Yeovil, alternate extensions to Weymouth
No problem turning on the main line and service increase from Bath (where they're putting more businesses than residences) and Wiltshire (where they're putting more residences than businesses).  Turn the :16 at Frome to avoid platform blocking at Westbury, and take the :46 local down to Yeovil - a town of 60,000.  Without a loop south of Chetnole you can't extend the :46 every hour past Yeovil.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on February 22, 2018, 06:41:55
.... Without a loop south of Chetnole you can't extend the :46 every hour past Yeovil.


Maiden Newton  ???


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on February 22, 2018, 07:00:13
.... Without a loop south of Chetnole you can't extend the :46 every hour past Yeovil.

Maiden Newton  ???

7 minutes too far south (quarter of an hour round trip).   Real Heart of Wessex problem on going hourly is the spacing of the loops.  Don't get me writing here - this would end up being a really long post; comes in as part of the learning about hourly capacity for everything that uses the Westbury hub.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on February 22, 2018, 08:16:01
.... Without a loop south of Chetnole you can't extend the :46 every hour past Yeovil.

Maiden Newton  ???

7 minutes too far south (quarter of an hour round trip).   Real Heart of Wessex problem on going hourly is the spacing of the loops.  Don't get me writing here - this would end up being a really long post; comes in as part of the learning about hourly capacity for everything that uses the Westbury hub.




So nothing that a bit of double tracking wouldn't solve then.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 22, 2018, 09:35:09
6 paths out of Temple Meads per hour
:00 to London via Bath Spa
:10 to Portsmouth Harbour
:16 to Westbury (or Frome)
:30 to London via Bath Spa
:40 to Swindon and Oxford
:46 to Yeovil, alternate extensions to Weymouth
No problem turning on the main line and service increase from Bath (where they're putting more businesses than residences) and Wiltshire (where they're putting more residences than businesses).  Turn the :16 at Frome to avoid platform blocking at Westbury, and take the :46 local down to Yeovil - a town of 60,000.  Without a loop south of Chetnole you can't extend the :46 every hour past Yeovil.

Simples! Why didn't the boffins at MetroWest come up with that instead of wringing their hands over where to put a turnback signal? I suppose that turning back on the mainline at Bath is problematic because the tight timescale would upset late-running intercity trains, but what you suggest could be done now with a bit of effort.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 22, 2018, 09:51:03
...shanty town...

That's no shanty town! That's Pete Chapman's 'Ennywevvers' glamping site, just there behind the pig farm.

Funny old place, Bristol.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on February 22, 2018, 10:03:59
Simples! Why didn't the boffins at MetroWest come up with that instead of wringing their hands over where to put a turnback signal? I suppose that turning back on the mainline at Bath is problematic because the tight timescale would upset late-running intercity trains, but what you suggest could be done now with a bit of effort.

It's a darned sight more carefully worked out than you might think.   Noting plans for another 2000 homes in Frome the other day - which is very much a dormitory town - "up to the railway" says the blurb, 400 metres from the station.  And platform blocking there far less of an issue that it could become at Westbury. Time allowed for a Saltford stop too.  Some other issues to overcome and lots of unknowns as I don't have other timetable plans ahead, but the idea does scream "on existing infrastructure", "meeting current and pent up demand" and "sensible schedules and turn around times".


Edit to correct new house numbers - then correct them back because I was fed a pup!  2000 homes is about 5000 people.

Nice positive slant on the story  - "Garden village could 'devastate' the area south of Frome, warn residents" from  Somerset Live (https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/garden-village-could-devastate-area-1241150)



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 22, 2018, 11:50:09
...shanty town...

That's no shanty town! That's Pete Chapman's 'Ennywevvers' glamping site, just there behind the pig farm.

Funny old place, Bristol.
Is that the place you're talking about! I wonder if anyone has ever actually 'glamped' there?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 22, 2018, 13:07:19
As m'colleague FT, N! sort of half-alluded, it used to be a lot nicer before they cut down all the trees on the embankment. I think the sheet piles are temporary, so it may not be quite so stark when the soil nailing is finished.

Actually, soil-nailing sounds like the kind of spa treatment that might attract some glampers...  :o


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 22, 2018, 13:31:07
It's at least five years since I've been past there so I expect it still had trees back then.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on February 22, 2018, 13:58:01
Turning things around......Nail soiling is not the sort of activity one would associate with glampers, even for a nano second ! Actually, could you see any of  the metrobus people getting their hands dirty for that amount of time, even if they were thought to be handling just £1 of 'laundered' money ???


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 22, 2018, 14:48:30
As m'colleague FT, N! sort of half-alluded, it used to be a lot nicer before they cut down all the trees on the embankment. I think the sheet piles are temporary, so it may not be quite so stark when the soil nailing is finished.


I think that's what I was doing.

Is that the place you're talking about! I wonder if anyone has ever actually 'glamped' there?

Glumped, maybe...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on September 12, 2018, 20:43:54
Isn't it always the same? Big local headlines heralding Portway Parkway going ahead some considerable time back for good PR, now nowt. I guess the engineer's ground surveys must be finished but try to find out where things are now and it's a black hole.
I say this because a successful P&R there (which I take as a given) could really convince everyone of the value of Metrowest, hence my perhaps unreasonable impatience but I find the lack of a my more information disappointing.
Has anyone on the forum got an "info fix" for me?



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on September 13, 2018, 11:09:33
Has anyone on the forum got an "info fix" for me?

All is quiet, for sure! The funding has been agreed, which is normally the point where someone starts looking for a shovel. That was done via the LEP, which no longer has responsibility for transport. I've looked at the website for the West of England Combined Authority (WECA) to whom the burden was passed. It details nothing with a timescale under a couple of decades or cost of under a billion. Nothing in recent Bristol City Council papers about it either, the last mention being a press release from the mayor's office (http://news.bristol.gov.uk/portway_new_railway_station_works_underway) over a year ago, in which he lays the ground for claiming credit for the idea, or moving it to Filton if his Malaysian Masters think that best.

Quote

(https://dmscdn.vuelio.co.uk/publicitem/feaa78a6-984c-4ad3-8340-cb9e9c2b9d14/webversion)
Portway new railway station works underway

15 Aug 2017

Work is underway to help design the first new railway station in the Bristol area in over 20 years. The station will serve the existing Portway Park & Ride site near Avonmouth.

Over the next month rail engineers will survey the development site next to the Portway Park & Ride to assess ground conditions to inform the design of the new £2.23m station, which is due to be completed by 2019.

Bristol City Council secured £1.67m from the government’s New Stations Fund to make the project possible after working with Network Rail on developing the project.

The newly formed West of England Combined Authority and the West of England Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) is supporting the project by providing some of the additional funding required to deliver the station, as well as wider investment to better link the new station to the Park & Ride site.

Marvin Rees, Mayor of Bristol, said:

“Securing this much-needed rail funding from the government is great news for Bristol and it will help meet a long held aspiration to build a new station to serve the Portway Park & Ride site. It will complement the existing bus services which will continue to serve the city centre and encourage more people from a wider area to use these routes, reducing congestion and improving our air quality.

“Council colleagues have already been working with Network Rail over the last few years to develop the scheme and detailed development work is underway. We are working towards completing the station during 2019/20.”

The scheme forms part of a long-term rail strategy for the city region through the MetroWest programme, including improved frequencies on the Severn Beach Line which will serve the station by 2020.

The funding from government announced last month will help the scheme move forward with credibility after being endorsed by the Department for Transport (DfT) and the rail industry.

Cllr Mhairi Threlfall, Cabinet Member for Transport at Bristol City Council, added:

“To improve the flow of people across the city and connect them to jobs, education and healthcare, we need the right transport infrastructure - and rail improvements like this are an important part of our travel planning. The Portway scheme will also play a critical role in improving access to both the Temple Quarter Enterprise Zone and the Avonmouth Enterprise Area, which are anticipated to accommodate up to 31,000 new jobs over the next 25 years.”

Malcolm Parsons, Director Route Business Development at Network Rail, said:

“This is great news and will significantly improve journeys for passengers in Bristol at a time when more people are using the railway than ever before.

“Securing the funding is the culmination of years of hard work and supports the wider upgrades being delivered in Bristol which includes the biggest signalling modernisation anywhere in the country, Filton Four Tracking and improvements to the Severn Beach Line. These upgrades will provide greater capacity, more frequent services and a more reliable railway with the new Portway Station further enhancing Bristol’s rail network.”

The current estimated cost of the project is £2.63m which includes £2.23m for delivering the rail infrastructure plus funding to make improvements to the Park & Ride site to accommodate the station, including a new amenity building to benefit both rail and bus passengers.

The West of England LEP Joint Committee awarded funding from the Local Growth Fund (LGF) for this scheme in June, subject to further development work and planning permission being secured, in the knowledge that a bid to government for part of the New Stations Fund was pending. This was to ensure the scheme could continue to progress in case the bid wasn’t successful.

The money from the New Stations Fund will reduce the call on the LGF by £1.67m and means this funding back go back into the regional programme to support other key projects.

It is beginning to show some of the more worrying characteristics of MetroBust, being already 5 years past the original sheduled opening date, and way over the planned budget.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 13, 2018, 11:47:13
FTN, It looks a long walk from the station to the bus stop.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on September 13, 2018, 18:44:58
FTN, It looks a long walk from the station to the bus stop.

It does indeed, but drivers will be choosing one or the other in the main. I suppose a few of the few people who live closer to it than they do to Avonmouth or Shirehampton may take advantage of what will be for them a shorter walk, but it is primarily for car drivers. I have never seen it anything like full, so putative rail passengers will be able to park very close to the station. That could actually give it a lot of passengers from Lawrence Weston and Shirehampton who have been put off using rail because of the minimal provision for parking at the other nearby two stations.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 13, 2018, 19:00:39
Not to mention Sea Mills.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on September 13, 2018, 23:08:38
Not to mention Sea Mills.

Yes, wise advice.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on September 14, 2018, 18:53:32
Isn't it always the same? Big local headlines heralding Portway Parkway going ahead some considerable time back for good PR, now nowt. I guess the engineer's ground surveys must be finished but try to find out where things are now and it's a black hole.
I say this because a successful P&R there (which I take as a given) could really convince everyone of the value of Metrowest, hence my perhaps unreasonable impatience but I find the lack of a my more information disappointing.
Has anyone on the forum got an "info fix" for me?

I have been in touch today with Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport, and she has provided the following update for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport
- The government funding that we have secured for the project via the New Stations Fund requires that the rail infrastructure must be completed by the end of February 2020.

- The ground surveys demonstrated that the construction of the station is feasible and informed its design.

- Although Network Rail has experienced some minor delays in completing the required surveys and follow up design work, they are confident that this will not impact on the overall completion date.

- The planning application was submitted in July, which is currently being assessed.

- We are currently awaiting the outcome of Network Rail’s ‘GRIP4’ study which has developed the proposal in detail and updated the scheme costs. Once we have received this information and assessed it, we will update the public on the progress and viability of the project. This should be in the next couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 14, 2018, 23:44:06
Quote
- The planning application was submitted in July, which is currently being assessed.

So it was: 18/03830/F


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on September 17, 2018, 20:49:42
Hm. A quick butchers suggests that despite the passage of many years, there is much work to do on all those things the statutory consultees take interest in. Trees, bats, newts (obviously), World War 1 infrastructure remnants, lichen, wildlife corridors and cycle parking are but a few of the things needing survey and reports. Of the three members of the public to have written in, two support and one objects.

At least it has to be completed by the end of February 2020. Fortunately, that is a leap year. I predict a hastily cobbled together opening ceremony on the 29th, with the paint still wet.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 10, 2018, 20:31:53
BBC Radio Bristol news have added a story from late afternoon today that lighter trains or even trams are to be looked at as a means of making the reopening of the Portishead line more affordable. That's all I could find for now, online BBC local news has nowt and I'm not even going to bother with the online Evening Post as they probably won't find out about this before November.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on October 10, 2018, 21:22:20
BBC Radio Bristol news have added a story from late afternoon today that lighter trains or even trams are to be looked at as a means of making the reopening of the Portishead line more affordable. That's all I could find for now, online BBC local news has nowt and I'm not even going to bother with the online Evening Post as they probably won't find out about this before November.

Let's not be too hard on the Evening Bristol for not knowing about this; Portishead Railway Group don't seem to have heard either. Maybe some journo just overheard some friends and I fantasising after 5 pints in the front bar of the Highbury Vaults...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 10, 2018, 21:36:50
BBC Radio Bristol news have added a story from late afternoon today that lighter trains or even trams are to be looked at as a means of making the reopening of the Portishead line more affordable. That's all I could find for now, online BBC local news has nowt and I'm not even going to bother with the online Evening Post as they probably won't find out about this before November.

Let's not be too hard on the Evening Bristol for not knowing about this; Portishead Railway Group don't seem to have heard either. Maybe some journo just overheard some friends and I fantasising after 5 pints in the front bar of the Highbury Vaults...

Judging by the time the BBC started running the article this afternoon it must have been a prolonged lunch in that fine hostelry. 😀


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on October 10, 2018, 21:38:14
BBC Radio Bristol news have added a story from late afternoon today that lighter trains or even trams are to be looked at as a means of making the reopening of the Portishead line more affordable. That's all I could find for now, online BBC local news has nowt and I'm not even going to bother with the online Evening Post as they probably won't find out about this before November.

There is huge sense in looking at all the options ... and huge sense in not spending so much time you look at all the options that you end up delivering nothing.  I have no sense in knowing where we are at - viewed from afar (Wiltshire) I'm feeling a bit impatient and wish they would just get on with it.

Noting how the Bury line comes into Manchester Victoria then into the City ... could the Portishead tram, running every 10 minutes, come into platform 2 at Temple Meads then turn left and go down the ramp and do a circuit of the City?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 10, 2018, 21:54:56
I've long believed in just getting from Portishead to Temple Meads to start with before anything else. The notion of extending out of the station however is new one to me. It would be a very tight turn from platform 2 to go down the ramp (and then onwards somewhere). That, if at all possible, would really be a "phase two" proposal. Platform 2 was the old Motorail vehicle entrance though so maybe, just maybe.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 12, 2018, 13:41:21
There's a bit more on the light rail for Portishead proposal now on the BBC local news website quoting the Metromayor who seems to behind this despite it not really being in his area of jurisdiction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45822170?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2654675-bristol/0&link_location=live-reporting-story


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on October 12, 2018, 14:51:14
I've long believed in just getting from Portishead to Temple Meads to start with before anything else. The notion of extending out of the station however is new one to me. It would be a very tight turn from platform 2 to go down the ramp (and then onwards somewhere). That, if at all possible, would really be a "phase two" proposal. Platform 2 was the old Motorail vehicle entrance though so maybe, just maybe.

#MeToo. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility - the undergrowth west of P2 hides some rusty old lines that probably were to do with the former depot and, according to a sign in the brambles, milk terminal. These could make for a gentler turn, although modern light rail can make some very tight turns as my experience in Manchester, Birmingham, lowly Blackpool, and abroad has shown. A loop around the city centre via the Grove, through the bus lanes and Nelson Street to Broadmead and returning maybe via Old Market would also give passengers arriving from anywhere else a far better option for travel in the central area than the current buses. I have also wondered whether a route passing by St Philips Marsh depot to serve the dubious Avonmeads before crossing the main line either via a bit of street running over the bridge or its own skew bridge into somewhere west of P1 could be affordable. The bridge from there into Plot 6 and Friary already exists. That would open up further possibilities to the north, as well as possibly along the old alignment through Brislington. Plus it would be handy for Wetherspoons.

BBC Radio Bristol news have added a story from late afternoon today that lighter trains or even trams are to be looked at as a means of making the reopening of the Portishead line more affordable. That's all I could find for now, online BBC local news has nowt and I'm not even going to bother with the online Evening Post as they probably won't find out about this before November.

Let's not be too hard on the Evening Bristol for not knowing about this; Portishead Railway Group don't seem to have heard either. Maybe some journo just overheard some friends and I fantasising after 5 pints in the front bar of the Highbury Vaults...

Gosh, I used to spend Friday evenings there, quaffing SA, later Smiles, and making sure the bar stayed up. I even used to pull pints there when it got busy. I haven't been there in a long while, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the same faces.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: metalrail on October 12, 2018, 15:42:42
One part of that BBC report confuses me tho...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45822170?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2654675-Bristol/0&link_location=live-reporting-story

"The move could also open up the possibility of running direct trains from Severn Beach to Bath and Westbury"

I understand the proposals for Metrowest was to provide two new Severn Beach services;
One Portishead to Severn Beach
One Severn Beach to Bath

I'm definitely still 100% behind the re-introduction of Portishead line services, but to say that's the only way a new Severn Beach to Bath / Westbury could be introduced makes no sense to me...  or am I missing something in my confused Friday afternoon state of mind?!   ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 12, 2018, 16:02:36
I wondered about that too. Severn Beach to Bath seems to have been an early suggestion for Metrowest which has more recently been proposed as SB to Westbury. Portishead to SB  was the other early suggestion an in my opinion too much too soon. Portishead to the railway interchange that is Temple Meads with frequent connections regionally are, IMO, all most people would want, especially if this means more frequent services too and from Port Z.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on October 18, 2018, 23:59:18
Isn't it always the same? Big local headlines heralding Portway Parkway going ahead some considerable time back for good PR, now nowt. I guess the engineer's ground surveys must be finished but try to find out where things are now and it's a black hole.
I say this because a successful P&R there (which I take as a given) could really convince everyone of the value of Metrowest, hence my perhaps unreasonable impatience but I find the lack of a my more information disappointing.
Has anyone on the forum got an "info fix" for me?

I have been in touch today with Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport, and she has provided the following update for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport
- The government funding that we have secured for the project via the New Stations Fund requires that the rail infrastructure must be completed by the end of February 2020.

- The ground surveys demonstrated that the construction of the station is feasible and informed its design.

- Although Network Rail has experienced some minor delays in completing the required surveys and follow up design work, they are confident that this will not impact on the overall completion date.

- The planning application was submitted in July, which is currently being assessed.

- We are currently awaiting the outcome of Network Rail’s ‘GRIP4’ study which has developed the proposal in detail and updated the scheme costs. Once we have received this information and assessed it, we will update the public on the progress and viability of the project. This should be in the next couple of weeks.

Looked back at Lee's very interesting update (above) that he obtained from Mhairi Threlfall last month regarding progress with the Portway P&R Station. The last line of the response indicated that more information would be forthcoming in "the next couple of weeks" so I was wondering if there has been anything recently released .


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on November 03, 2018, 08:45:31
I have been in touch today with Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport, and she has provided the following update for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council Cabinet Member for Transport
- The government funding that we have secured for the project via the New Stations Fund requires that the rail infrastructure must be completed by the end of February 2020.

- The ground surveys demonstrated that the construction of the station is feasible and informed its design.

- Although Network Rail has experienced some minor delays in completing the required surveys and follow up design work, they are confident that this will not impact on the overall completion date.

- The planning application was submitted in July, which is currently being assessed.

- We are currently awaiting the outcome of Network Rail’s ‘GRIP4’ study which has developed the proposal in detail and updated the scheme costs. Once we have received this information and assessed it, we will update the public on the progress and viability of the project. This should be in the next couple of weeks.

Looked back at Lee's very interesting update (above) that he obtained from Mhairi Threlfall last month regarding progress with the Portway P&R Station. The last line of the response indicated that more information would be forthcoming in "the next couple of weeks" so I was wondering if there has been anything recently released .

Further update received from Bristol City Council for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Bristol City Council
The GRIP4 study has been completed and we are currently considering the emerging outputs from this. We hope to be in a position to provide an update on the scheme over the coming weeks. In the meantime, Bristol City Council is currently determining the planning application for the project.

I'd take that as "we thought the next couple of weeks, but turns out we need a bit longer."


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 03, 2018, 10:18:38
Bear in mind that Marvin Rees is taking over Mhairi Threlfall's Transport remit...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on November 04, 2018, 20:20:42
Bear in mind that Marvin Rees is taking over Mhairi Threlfall's Transport remit...

Oh bugger, I had forgotten that. He is probably going to build the station miles from the Portway Park and Ride, isn't he? Probably Filton.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 04, 2018, 21:11:40
Bear in mind that Marvin Rees is taking over Mhairi Threlfall's Transport remit...

Oh bugger, I had forgotten that. He is probably going to build the station miles from the Portway Park and Ride, isn't he? Probably Filton.
But with an underground tunnel connection to somewhere half a mile from the Park and Ride!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 07:15:31
Bear in mind that Marvin Rees is taking over Mhairi Threlfall's Transport remit...
Oh bugger, I had forgotten that. He is probably going to build the station miles from the Portway Park and Ride, isn't he? Probably Filton.
But with an underground tunnel connection to somewhere half a mile from the Park and Ride!

At the risk of making fun of the serious issue of the passing over of projects (and indeed the consultation that Mhairi was heading / promoting that closed on Friday), isn't the place a station is most needed at Lulsgate ... slight issue being the lack of a railway line to run trains there.  We do have a precedent in the area:

Quote
The new station buildings were completed by 1850, and also included a goods shed, although the railway tracks were not added until later.  Opened 1857.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on November 05, 2018, 07:34:02
Quote
The new station buildings were completed by 1850, and also included a goods shed, although the railway tracks were not added until later.  Opened 1857.

Do enlighten me,where ?

And how about the station building/booking office built, opened and used but never saw a train serve the station, Dartmouth, don't have to enlighten you in that case.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 05, 2018, 13:32:10
Bear in mind that Marvin Rees is taking over Mhairi Threlfall's Transport remit...

Oh bugger, I had forgotten that. He is probably going to build the station miles from the Portway Park and Ride, isn't he? Probably Filton.
But with an underground tunnel connection to somewhere half a mile from the Park and Ride!

Oh-oh, he might read this and take notes! 😨


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2018, 16:04:51
Quote
The new station buildings were completed by 1850, and also included a goods shed, although the railway tracks were not added until later.  Opened 1857.

Do enlighten me,where ?


Bradford-on-Avon


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on November 05, 2018, 19:28:22
The Canadian owners of Bristol airport have been discussing a rail link of sorts. They seem to know what they are doing there, having expanded both business and buildings there substantially since carrying on the grand job done by the late Les Wilson, "Mr Bristol Airport". Those Canadians don't just watch from a distance - I use the airport fairly regularly, and earlier this year witnessed a group of obvious VIPs being shown around airside. From a snatch of overheard conversation, I realised that they were trustees of the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund being given a tour of the most recent improvements.

My guess is that if they find that it is feasible, they will build it and operate it a bit like the original Heathrow Express model, maybe up and running before the Portway P&R station. Definitely before the Henbury loop.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 05, 2018, 21:10:12
Ah, yes, suddenly I see how it might work... and of course 'Bounder' Bowles could take all the credit. Win-win!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on November 06, 2018, 18:11:19
The Canadian owners of Bristol airport have been discussing a rail link of sorts. They seem to know what they are doing there, having expanded both business and buildings there substantially since carrying on the grand job done by the late Les Wilson, "Mr Bristol Airport". Those Canadians don't just watch from a distance - I use the airport fairly regularly, and earlier this year witnessed a group of obvious VIPs being shown around airside. From a snatch of overheard conversation, I realised that they were trustees of the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund being given a tour of the most recent improvements.

My guess is that if they find that it is feasible, they will build it and operate it a bit like the original Heathrow Express model, maybe up and running before the Portway P&R station. Definitely before the Henbury loop.

Interesting.

I'd suggest that it would be more like Luton Airport - with a light rail link that cuts Network Rail out of the loop entirely. The question is where you run it from, there are a number of options, including perhaps a new NR Station at Long Ashton, but there's no natural choice.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of airport users by origin/destination postcode. Building for the long-term, could it be worthwhile to build it pointing westward, perhaps connecting to NR at Yatton? After all there are something like 2m people living in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on November 08, 2018, 23:19:06
Interesting.

I'd suggest that it would be more like Luton Airport - with a light rail link that cuts Network Rail out of the loop entirely. The question is where you run it from, there are a number of options, including perhaps a new NR Station at Long Ashton, but there's no natural choice.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of airport users by origin/destination postcode. Building for the long-term, could it be worthwhile to build it pointing westward, perhaps connecting to NR at Yatton? After all there are something like 2m people living in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset.

My own back-of-envelope design would involve connection to the main line somewhere around Parson Street, although there's a couple of big hills to circumnavigate or burrow through. It's a climb of 620 feet to the airport in about 5 miles. The LEP looked at this not long before transport was handed to the Metro Mayor. The three main options were a line from around Long Ashton, a line from Yatton using the trackbed of the Strawberry line, and conversion of MetroBust to light rail, with the line then following the A38. Because of ther height problem, the last option looks like the most flexible. Taylor Wimpey suggested it when proposing the Vale project.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 09, 2018, 09:49:50

My own back-of-envelope design would involve connection to the main line somewhere around Parson Street, although there's a couple of big hills to circumnavigate or burrow through. It's a climb of 620 feet to the airport in about 5 miles. The LEP looked at this not long before transport was handed to the Metro Mayor. The three main options were a line from around Long Ashton, a line from Yatton using the trackbed of the Strawberry line, and conversion of MetroBust to light rail, with the line then following the A38. Because of ther height problem, the last option looks like the most flexible. Taylor Wimpey suggested it when proposing the Vale project.

All interesting stuff this!

I imagine that the Airport's catchment would be best served by a service starting at Temple Meads: for people living to the south-west of Bristol that would be less convenient than a shuttle from Yatton, but for those living in Gloucester, Newport or Swindon it would surely be preferable.

There's no avoiding the need to get up and through some big hills though, whether it's Redhill, Fox and Goose Hill or Goblin Combe. Overall, following the A38 seems to have a lot going for it. I'm interested to see how they might thread a line through Barrow Tanks.

What's the height problem you refer to?

I don't see how converting MetroBus to light rail helps in this context; as we know it goes nowhere near Temple Meads...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on November 09, 2018, 23:38:26
Ha! True! But do I see on the aerial photos you posted elsewhere of the redevelopment of Temple Way some sort of passive provision?

(https://i2.wp.com/www.bristoltemplequarter.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Temple-Gate-Aerial-bridge2.jpg?ssl=1)

The line of the former route to the docks and beyond is still very evident, even if the bridge isn't. With foresight, clever engineering, and a will to succeed, trams or tram-trains could yet snake across the road and into the station.

So no, then.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 15:46:24
The line of the former route to the docks and beyond is still very evident, even if the bridge isn't. With foresight, clever engineering, and a will to succeed, trams or tram-trains could yet snake across the road and into the station.

So no, then.

Is the old harbour line along Cumberland Rd still there or have they pulled it up now that Ashton Swing Bridge has been 'Metrobussed'?  Obviously it became completely redundant following it's disconnection at Ashton Gate, but haven't driven along there for a while now


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 16:40:13
...do I see...some sort of passive provision?

Various plans have for some time earmarked the gap between the George Railway and the Grosvenor Hotel as a rapid transit corridor, but sadly that idea seems to have receded in recent years - possibly because we now have a high quality tram-like experience (I'm surprised if you haven't heard of this) called MetroBus.

Is the old harbour line along Cumberland Rd still there or have they pulled it up now that Ashton Swing Bridge has been 'Metrobussed'?  Obviously it became completely redundant following it's disconnection at Ashton Gate, but haven't driven along there for a while now

T'aint redundant at all - it's still very much connected to the historic dockside railway at M Shed. The rather makeshift platform at the Cumberland Basin end, used on high days and holy days, is currently a kit of parts pushed aside by MetroBus work, but one has to presume that it will be reinstated at some point.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: metalrail on November 10, 2018, 16:55:41

T'aint redundant at all - it's still very much connected to the historic dockside railway at M Shed. The rather makeshift platform at the Cumberland Basin end, used on high days and holy days, is currently a kit of parts pushed aside by MetroBus work, but one has to presume that it will be reinstated at some point.
Sorry I meant the fact it's now been disconnected from the rest of the network after they ripped it up over the swing bridge.  You reckon there'll be plans to reconnect it somehow?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 10, 2018, 18:23:51
Sorry I meant the fact it's now been disconnected from the rest of the network after they ripped it up over the swing bridge.  You reckon there'll be plans to reconnect it somehow?

No; I just meant that it is part of the Bristol Harbour Railway (https://www.bristolmuseums.org.uk/m-shed/whats-on/train-rides/), and as such I wouldn't call it redundant. I note that the BHR currently only runs as far as Vauxhall Footbridge, which is about 500m short of the old terminus at the Create Centre.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on November 10, 2018, 18:29:54
The line of the former route to the docks and beyond is still very evident, even if the bridge isn't. With foresight, clever engineering, and a will to succeed, trams or tram-trains could yet snake across the road and into the station.

So no, then.

Is the old harbour line along Cumberland Rd still there or have they pulled it up now that Ashton Swing Bridge has been 'Metrobussed'?  Obviously it became completely redundant following it's disconnection at Ashton Gate, but haven't driven along there for a while now


The Harbour railway still runs between M Shes and the Great Britain and when the chuffer choo runs they still run from the M Shed along the track adjacent to Cumberland Road which at one time was double track all the way to Ashton Gate Junction where there was a PW Depot. Currently Balfour Beatty are effecting repairs to the New Cut retaining wall in the vicinity of the Bristol Harbourmasters offices on Spike Island which exhibited signs that it was collapsing into the cut and thus the Harbour Railway is truncated but as has been stated, it is the intention to rebuild the platform, which is currently a kit of parts, alongside the red brick built former bonded warehouse building, now the home of Bristols Records Office.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 10, 2018, 19:37:25
I kind of got the impression the Chocolate Path was not going to reopen, probably ever. If true that would imply the Harbour Railway along there also being closed.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 11, 2018, 11:10:25
I kind of got the impression the Chocolate Path was not going to reopen, probably ever. If true that would imply the Harbour Railway along there also being closed.

All answered here:

Quote
Significant repair work for highway structures around Bristol’s waterways approved at Cabinet

The future of a ... popular cycle route and footpath has been secured following last night’s cabinet meeting (4 September).

At the meeting funding was approved to begin ... the structural stabilisation of the river wall which supports the Chocolate Path and historic railway.

...

The Chocolate Path, which is a popular walking and cycling route, has been partially closed since 2016 as it is currently slowly subsiding into the river. In order to reopen it and make the path safe to use, a budget of £5million worth of capital funding has been allocated to stabilise the wall and stop any further subsidence of the path and historic railway.

Cllr Mhairi Threlfall, Cabinet Member for Transport said: “We need to take action now so that we can protect these important historical landmarks around our city’s famous waterways.  This work is essential for looking after these important structural elements of our highway network, keeping them working and stopping parts completely slipping away in to the river.

“If we do not act now these costs are likely to rise substantially.  We expect that work will start next year and we will keep commuters updated for any road closures that may happen as a result of this work.”

Up to £3million funding was agreed for the refurbishment of the Redcliffe Bridge and up to £5million for the stabilisation of the river retaining wall supporting the Chocolate Footpath and historic railway. The work is due to begin within the next financial year.


Source: Bristol City Council (https://news.bristol.gov.uk/news/significant-repair-work-for-highway-structures-around-bristols-waterways-approved-at-cabinet)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 20, 2018, 15:20:11
BBC Radio Bristol news bulletins today have Banes Council and our Marv talking about tram/train or light rail options between Severn Beach and Westbury. Probably a bit more of their occasional headline attention grabbing stuff or equally possibly an excuse for further inaction but worth mentioning I thought.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 20, 2018, 17:19:07
BBC Radio Bristol news bulletins today have Banes Council and our Marv talking about tram/train or light rail options between Severn Beach and Westbury. Probably a bit more of their occasional headline attention grabbing stuff or equally possibly an excuse for further inaction but worth mentioning I thought.

Given that BaNES are involved, I presume we're talking about Westbury, Wilts rather than Westbury-on-Trym... in which case, unless my rail atlas is out-of-date, isn't there already a heavy rail connection?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 20, 2018, 17:32:19
Were they talking about the JSP? It is worth looking at the infrastructure statement as updated in April 2018 (here (https://www.jointplanningwofe.org.uk/gf2.ti/f/845730/35834469.1/PDF/-/SD12A_Infrastructure_Position_Statement_April_2018_Updated_for_Submission.pdf)), if you haven't already; the map in Figure 3 gives some indication of what is on the table - stations at St Anne's, Saltford, Ashley Hill, Ashton and Charfield, 'rapid transit' (not MetroBus) to the Airport, north-west Bristol, along Bath Road and - oh, along the Bristol-Bath cycle path by the look of it... lucky old Thornbury might get MetroBus and a cycle path (they must have upset someone!).

Edit: Oops! No points for proofreading


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on November 20, 2018, 18:04:54
BBC Radio Bristol news bulletins today have Banes Council and our Marv talking about tram/train or light rail options between Severn Beach and Westbury. Probably a bit more of their occasional headline attention grabbing stuff or equally possibly an excuse for further inaction but worth mentioning I thought.
Given that BaNES are involved, I presume we're talking about Westbury, Wilts rather than Westbury-on-Trym... in which case, unless my rail atlas is out-of-date, isn't there already a heavy rail connection?

Correct, but they are talking about a Light Rail vehicle using that route. Can you imagine a Light Rail vehicle alone interspersed with heavy rail traffic on the busy Bristol to Bath main line, I can't.

I'm no electrical expert but I would have thought that to install a transformer to supply the required power to propel a light rail vehicle in that light rail vehicle from 'a future 25Kv OHL supply' would be so heavy as to make it a, err, heavy rail vehicle anyway. I wish people like Marv and Tim would engage their brains before taking the brakes off their mouths.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 20, 2018, 18:08:32
R.S,     Joint SP was not mentioned in the article but it wasn't at all in depth.

Westbury on Trym, I am sure, was not the Westbury mentioned. Isn't W-O-T the intended terminus for the underground rapid transport link to the future Steepholm International Airport?*

Looks like perhaps like the whole of Metrowest is becoming tram/light rail as that was also an earlier proposal for the Portishead Line.


*That bit might just have been just made up by me.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on November 20, 2018, 18:27:06
R.S,     Joint SP was not mentioned in the article but it wasn't at all in depth.

Westbury on Trym, I am sure, was not the Westbury mentioned. Isn't W-O-T the intended terminus for the underground rapid transport link to the future Steepholm International Airport?*

Looks like perhaps like the whole of Metrowest is becoming tram/light rail as that was also an earlier proposal for the Portishead Line.


*That bit might just have been just made up by me.

Like it but you got the wrong 'Holm', Steep Holm would be like St. Kilda, too much cross wind, but Flat Holm would be ideal as the location of Flat Holm International Airport as the main runway could be constructed to run East to West.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 20, 2018, 18:49:16
R.S,     Joint SP was not mentioned in the article but it wasn't at all in depth.

Westbury on Trym, I am sure, was not the Westbury mentioned. Isn't W-O-T the intended terminus for the underground rapid transport link to the future Steepholm International Airport?*

Looks like perhaps like the whole of Metrowest is becoming tram/light rail as that was also an earlier proposal for the Portishead Line.


*That bit might just have been just made up by me.

Like it but you got the wrong 'Holm', Steep Holm would be like St. Kilda, too much cross wind, but Flat Holm would be ideal as the location of Flat Holm International Airport as the main runway could be constructed to run East to West.

No,no!  Much too sensible!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 20, 2018, 18:53:14
Were they talking about the JSP? It is worth looking at the infrastructure statement as updated in April 2018 (here (https://www.jointplanningwofe.org.uk/gf2.ti/f/845730/35834469.1/PDF/-/SD12A_Infrastructure_Position_Statement_April_2018_Updated_for_Submission.pdf)), if you haven't already; the map in Figure 3 gives some indication of what is on the table - stations at St Anne's, Saltford, Ashley Hill, Ashton and Charfield, 'rapid transit' (not MetroBus) to the Airport, north-west Bristol, along Bath Road and - oh, along the Bristol-Bath cycle path by the look of it... lucky old Thornbury might get MetroBus and a cycle path (they must have upset someone!).

Edit: Oops! No points for proofreading


Looks like the Bristol Bath Cycle path is doomed to a Metrobustrocity. Haven't they learnt yet?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 20, 2018, 19:01:04
Looks like the Bristol Bath Cycle path is doomed to a Metrobustrocity. Haven't they learnt yet?

Whether they've learnt or not, the cycle path is indicated as non-MetroBus rapid transit.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on November 20, 2018, 19:20:54
Looks like the Bristol Bath Cycle path is doomed to a Metrobustrocity. Haven't they learnt yet?

Whether they've learnt or not, the cycle path is indicated as non-MetroBus rapid transit.

Phew, my misreading then.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on November 21, 2018, 08:35:41
Like it but you got the wrong 'Holm', Steep Holm would be like St. Kilda, too much cross wind, but Flat Holm would be ideal as the location of Flat Holm International Airport as the main runway could be constructed to run East to West.

Two runways on Steepholm, or a triangular layout like Blackpool or Gloucestershire would solve that problem, although windshear  could pose difficulties. There  is an airfield on Lundy,  big enough for a light aircraft (but ring for PPR  so they  can clear  the sheep),  although it is not for  the  novice! I like the idea of Flatholm with two intersecting runways,  but it will never happen.

I have landed into a 20 knot wind at Filton,  which gave me some idea of what it was like to be a Harrier pilot. Every  aircraft certified for use has a  "Maximum Demonstrated Crosswind Coefficient", which in the case of a PA28,  the aircraft I was in, is  17 knots.  My instructor said that figure simply means that someone  has done that during  the testing phase of development. He had landed one in a 54 knot  crosswind, but never wanted to do that ever again.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on November 21, 2018, 08:56:22
Triangular runways, why not go circular and be sure the wind is on your side!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 01, 2018, 12:08:25

[snip]

To complicate calculations, a significant number of residences that were built in Melksham Without can only be reached by road from the Town, and the whole thing got so absurd that a number of chunks of the without were moved within a couple of years back.


...if only they could do something similar with North Bristol Without, East Bristol Without, etc!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: simonw on December 05, 2018, 14:38:38
I started this subject almost two years ago (Jan 2017) with the question is MetroWest dead.

Well two years on, not much progress has been made, but the prerequisite Filton Four Tracking is now done, but not much else.

Will Metrowest be delivered, and if so what and when?

From my perspective, the quality of rail services from|to Bristol have not improved, but deteriorated over this time and I cannot see any improvement over the next twelve months.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 05, 2018, 15:04:57
As you say the biggest obstacle - Filton Bank - has gone; hopefully Bristol East will follow.

Nothing happens quickly in this game, but I think there is hope that WECA could soon start to look like an ITA, and as FOSBR have pointed out MetroWest could start to look like an almost ready-made WECA-wide rapid transit network:

(http://www.fosbr.org.uk/files/map_phase3_2017.jpg)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on December 05, 2018, 19:54:44
This reminds me of a question I was asked at Redland Station by my brother during a recent visit. Two years ago or thereabouts, new card readers were installed along the Beach Riviera stations. These seem to be conspicuously unused. Was there supposed to be an accompanying installation of compatible card charging machines to follow? What was the point of these?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on December 05, 2018, 19:57:04
Correct, but they are talking about a Light Rail vehicle using that route. Can you imagine a Light Rail vehicle alone interspersed with heavy rail traffic on the busy Bristol to Bath main line, I can't.

I'm no electrical expert but I would have thought that to install a transformer to supply the required power to propel a light rail vehicle in that light rail vehicle from 'a future 25Kv OHL supply' would be so heavy as to make it a, err, heavy rail vehicle anyway. I wish people like Marv and Tim would engage their brains before taking the brakes off their mouths.

Unless they have seen the Siemens S70 Avanto in service in Mulhouse. That runs on 25 KV AC on the mainline railway, and 750V DC in town on the ordinary tram tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZwcsJyZ9Z8


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on December 16, 2018, 15:03:25
A element of the Joint Spatial Plan seems to already have some doubts being raised about it's future. BBC reports that MPs are questioning the safety of "smart motorways" with calls for their abandonment. The JSP includes smart motorways as part of the mix.
Here's the article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46553654


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 16, 2018, 15:20:03
A element of the Joint Spatial Plan seems to already have some doubts being raised about it's future. BBC reports that MPs are questioning the safety of "smart motorways" with calls for their abandonment. The JSP includes smart motorways as part of the mix.
Here's the article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46553654

Maybe this belongs under WECA Alphabet Soup (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20779.msg253231#msg253231), which covers JLTP, JSP and related issues?

MetroWest refers to half-hourly heavy rail services, whilst MetroBus covers mostly ordinary buses whose route numbers start with 'm'. I presume that if a rail-based rapid transit scheme ever gets as far as having a name, it will be called MetroMetro (MetroMetro: a tram-like experience using tram-like trams running on tram-track-like tram tracks! Who knows, it could work!)                   


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on December 16, 2018, 15:45:49
Yep, mods may wish to move this one.
Only stuck it on this thread as where I found a JSP link on it.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on December 16, 2018, 15:52:05
Correct, but they are talking about a Light Rail vehicle using that route. Can you imagine a Light Rail vehicle alone interspersed with heavy rail traffic on the busy Bristol to Bath main line, I can't.

I'm no electrical expert but I would have thought that to install a transformer to supply the required power to propel a light rail vehicle in that light rail vehicle from 'a future 25Kv OHL supply' would be so heavy as to make it a, err, heavy rail vehicle anyway. I wish people like Marv and Tim would engage their brains before taking the brakes off their mouths.

Unless they have seen the Siemens S70 Avanto in service in Mulhouse. That runs on 25 KV AC on the mainline railway, and 750V DC in town on the ordinary tram tracks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZwcsJyZ9Z8

That's near enough the current definition of tram-train - being able to run on existing or standard street tram tracks or segregated rail tracks. Of course some people (naming no noms) find this too hard, and run theirs only on railway lines, or on their own tracks at 25kV, or using 750V only to cross proper trams' tracks. Chacun a son tram-train...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on February 25, 2019, 00:01:46
Bristol Live reports on possible progress with Charfield Station along with road based schemes. The surprise for me though was mention of a "road to nowhere" in Yate which I had never heard of. Apparently a dual carriageway built and abandoned in the 1970 which has occasional film location uses but that is about all. Anyway, here's the link:
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/could-two-new-bypasses-railway-2575767


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on February 25, 2019, 04:32:01
Bristol Live reports on possible progress with Charfield Station along with road based schemes. The surprise for me though was mention of a "road to nowhere" in Yate which I had never heard of. Apparently a dual carriageway built and abandoned in the 1970 which has occasional film location uses but that is about all. Anyway, here's the link:
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/could-two-new-bypasses-railway-2575767

Here is the "blurb" if you want it as a film set:

http://www.southglos.gov.uk/documents/Road-to-Nowhere-Website-Document.pdf


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on February 25, 2019, 06:18:04
I live about 400 metres, as the crow flies, from the Road To Nowhere. As part of the planning permission for the housing development of which my home is part, the developer was required to make a contribution towards a relief road to avoid the A432 through Chipping Sodbury and Yate. The developer constructed the Road To Nowhere from a roundabout to a point where the road would rise to a bridge over the main Bristol to the North rail line and made a cash contribution to the then Gloucestershire County Council towards the cost of the bridge with the developer of the trading estate the other side of the rail line similarly making a contribution. Under the 1974 Local Government Act, Avon came into being to replace Gloucestershire and Northavon was formed by the merger of a number of 2nd tier councils, my local and rating authority being the 2nd tier authority was Sodbury Rural District Council. The above contributions made went to Gloucestershire and the sheer incompetence of Avon and Northavon ensured those monies remained in Gloucestershire's coffers. I probably will be providing food for the worms before regular traffic traverses the Road To Nowhere and judging by the current state of this stretch of 'highway' will require it to be re-constructed before it can be opened as part of the local everyday road network, after all its seen no regular traffic for 45 years so far.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 25, 2019, 09:05:52
http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=370050&Y=181583&A=Y&Z=120


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 25, 2019, 09:08:38
Charfield station's been talked about for at least as long as Portishead, hasn't it?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on February 25, 2019, 09:42:25
I probably will be providing food for the worms before regular traffic traverses the Road To Nowhere and judging by the current state of this stretch of 'highway' will require it to be re-constructed before it can be opened as part of the local everyday road network, after all its seen no regular traffic for 45 years so far.

If you visit by Google Earth (51.532443°   -2.434346°) you will see that about a year ago a bit in the middle was done up - presumably for a film - and there were loads of vehicles on site. They even built a fake cutting with concrete walls and some sort of bridge across - for some reason it's not on StreetView!

I'm sure a lot of such roads have been built running towards yet-to-be-built bridges, over the years, and while some of those bridges got built a few didn't. There was one I remember from my youth in Harrow, where Harrow View and Courtenay Avenue both existed with houses built, but the bridge over the LNWR (between Harrow & Wealdstone and Headstone Lane) was only opened just after I left school in 1969.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 25, 2019, 10:03:08
Charfield station's been talked about for at least as long as Portishead, hasn't it?

It was put to a vote of residents about 20 years ago. They said no, because they didn't want people from Wotton under Edge using it.

Charfield. A local village for local people.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 25, 2019, 10:49:19
Charfield station's been talked about for at least as long as Portishead, hasn't it?

It was put to a vote of residents about 20 years ago. They said no, because they didn't want people from Wotton under Edge using it.

Charfield. A local village for local people.

Charfield Station is very much 'there', in black ink, in JLTP3 and JLTP4. Did they put it to another vote, reflecting the fact that some of the older, more xenophobic residents have moved on to a better place?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 25, 2019, 11:08:58
Charfield Station is very much 'there', in black ink, in JLTP3 and JLTP4. Did they put it to another vote, reflecting the fact that some of the older, more xenophobic residents have moved on to a better place?

I think that this time they are consulting rather than asking people what they want. Having a second vote just because the xenophic element has gone to a better place - hopefully with a lot of foreigners waiting to greet them - could set a dangerous precedent. (I saw what you did there, you mischievous squirrel, you!)

To quote the late Dick Tuck, loser of the contest for a California seat in the US Senate (and the inspiration for a plastic surgery procedure) "The people have spoken, the b*st*rds!"


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 25, 2019, 15:18:56
Charfield station's been talked about for at least as long as Portishead, hasn't it?

It was put to a vote of residents about 20 years ago. They said no, because they didn't want people from Wotton under Edge using it.

Charfield. A local village for local people.
Presumably meaning they didn't want Wottonians parking their cars in Charfield streets?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 25, 2019, 15:27:07
...Wottonians

...aren't they Wottingers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8lMh1R4n5A)?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 25, 2019, 17:43:12
...aren't they Wottingers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8lMh1R4n5A)?

Have you been at the organic mushroom wine again, RS?  ;D

That programme remains one of my favourites, despite all my grandchildren being too old to watch it any more. He may be one of the founders of the National Theatre, a great Shakespearean actor, and one of only two British actors to have been knighted by more than one monarchy, but to me Sir Derek's greatest work will always be the Upsy Daisy song. Isn't that a pip!

Getting back to the Ninky Nonk railway, I believe fear of parking chaos was at the root of the refusal. That could be solved by either providing a car park or applying controls similar to those around the station I once knew as Redland Parkway.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on March 01, 2019, 20:18:26
Lifted from FOSBR's Facebook page:

https://www.northsomersettimes.co.uk/news/portishead-rail-metrowest-project-could-begin-phase-one-soon-1-5911967?fbclid=IwAR1NYkC6Z9oD3uffXuVC_tx-SREuwjPXYKWXSD9MPr9nOkjrwLeWdmsGlfE

North Somerset Times article "Councillors confident trains to Bristol from Portishead will run ‘by 2023’"





Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on March 02, 2019, 07:39:04
I had a conversation with a senior member of the Portishead Railway Group earlier this week, who assures me the timescale is unduly pessimistic. He thinks it will be up and running by 2022.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 02, 2019, 08:22:48
Charfield station's been talked about for at least as long as Portishead, hasn't it?

It was put to a vote of residents about 20 years ago. They said no, because they didn't want people from Wotton under Edge using it.

Charfield. A local village for local people.

Hark, I hear the distant twang of banjos! ;-)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on March 02, 2019, 08:42:50
Lifted from FOSBR's Facebook page:

https://www.northsomersettimes.co.uk/news/portishead-rail-metrowest-project-could-begin-phase-one-soon-1-5911967?fbclid=IwAR1NYkC6Z9oD3uffXuVC_tx-SREuwjPXYKWXSD9MPr9nOkjrwLeWdmsGlfE

North Somerset Times article "Councillors confident trains to Bristol from Portishead will run ‘by 2023’"

More like 2025 at the rate projects progress in this area. More likely we will have a helishuttle service from Portishead helipad to College Green helipad before then cos helicopters CAN fly, unlike pigs (at the mo).


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on March 02, 2019, 11:44:11
I had a conversation with a senior member of the Portishead Railway Group earlier this week, who assures me the timescale is unduly pessimistic. He thinks it will be up and running by 2022.

Now that would be news if it's proves to be true. Did he say anymore about why he thought it might be that year?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on March 02, 2019, 13:17:28
Just that he thought a lot of slack had been built into the system. Once the DCO has been given and the funding sorted out, it's all systems go !


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 02, 2019, 13:26:19
I had a conversation with a senior member of the Portishead Railway Group earlier this week, who assures me the timescale is unduly pessimistic. He thinks it will be up and running by 2022.

There is no reason why it shouldn't be done within 3 years, apart from the traditional council buffonery. We are told that GRIP 4 is due to be completed this month, which is the point where the council(s) can hand over to Network Rail to carry on, maybe obtaining the DCO while the desin stage is running. The track bed is there for the last 3 miles from Portbury Junction.The line to Portbury dock was laid in about a year, including building the spur into the harbour. The old track could possibly be used one last time, to deliver materials and equipment for the build. The station building won't be on the scale of Temple Meads, and signalling will probably be minimal.

Maybe, just maybe, it will be done by 2022, and the council's pessimistic date is so they can announce that they have opened it early.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on March 03, 2019, 15:50:17
Bristol Live a bit busy this week with Metrowest news. The latest article looks at extending Metrowest to Gloucester and Westbury. Evidently GWR and Network Rail are keen on it and the consequent avoiding of turnbacks will reduce costs. An announcement expected in summer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/confidence-growing-ambitious-metrowest-railway-2601231?fbclid=IwAR2v9Vizlndxzi7RPVEF3WNUsBErXayQdK0nNKWDSRlpL99AZ2CbI7Ruhcc


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 03, 2019, 16:12:25
It is rather upbeat.

Quote
Confidence growing that ambitious MetroWest railway will expand
Phase one, which is currently under way, will see the reopening of the Portishead line to passenger trains and improving services on the Severn Beach and Bath to Bristol lines.

(https://i2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article2546643.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0_View-1-2019-02-14-143553.jpg)
Confidence is growing among transport chiefs that the MetroWest railway will be expanded all the way to Gloucester and Westbury in Wiltshire.

A report to the West of England Combined Authority (Weca) overview and scrutiny committee revealed train operator Great Western Railway and Network Rail, which manages the lines, are both keen on the plans.

The “phase three” extension to the ambitious project, which aims to improve suburban train services into Bristol, received a boost last year when the Government announced it would back the idea.

(https://i2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article1802280.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_BM_BRI_190718MetroWest_03JPG.jpg)
The railway line has been plagued by uncertainty (Image: Michael Lloyd)
Phase one, which is currently under way, will see the reopening of the Portishead line to passenger trains and improving services on the Severn Beach and Bath to Bristol lines.

Work is also ongoing for phase two which would reopen the Henbury Line to an hourly spur service, as well as providing increased, half-hourly trains to Yate.

Expanding MetroWest 30 miles beyond Yate to Gloucester in the north, with possible extra stops in between, and 15 miles from Bath to Westbury in the east is now under serious discussion, which is set to conclude by the summer.

Weca director of infrastructure David Carter told combined authority councillors: “In the autumn we asked for MetroWest 1 to be extended to Westbury and MetroWest 2 to be extended to Gloucester.

“That’s up to the Department for Transport to negotiate with the franchisee, which is Great Western Railway, to determine whether they will or won’t accept that.

“So we have to make sure we keep, in both MetroWest 1 and 2, the cost of the turnback at Bath and the cost of the turnback at Yate until such time as the department confirms Gloucester and Westbury are in the franchise, and we won’t know that until June or July.”

(https://i2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article1128451.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/The-former-Henbury-railway-station.jpg)
The former Henbury railway station
Mr Carter said at the meeting on Wednesday, February 27, that Weca was working with Network Rail on the necessary infrastructure to extend to Westbury.

He said: “All the suggestions are that Great Western Railway and Network Rail would like to extend to Westbury and Gloucester and that the capital cost saving will be a benefit to the scheme.

“To go to Westbury they need to update three level crossings down the Avon Valley.

“We need to make sure they don’t need land or planning permission to do that and that it’s all done by permitted development.

“If they did, we’d have to make the decision that to run the MetroWest service, you may have to have a turnback.

“So until they can tell us categorically in June or July that you don’t need to do that and can go all the way to Westbury then we can’t make that decision, and the same is true of Yate.

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“Network Rail and Great Western Railway would rather there weren’t turnbacks because it adds to operational resilience issues but technically there’s space within the timetable to have that turnback and operate the service.”

Mr Carter said a funding gap remained for phase one and that negotiations were ongoing with the Government.

Last month, North Somerset Council allocated £15million to the Portishead-line section of the project and approved £11.7million over two years to develop a full business case.

But it still faces a £31million shortfall.

The plans also include building new rail stations at Henbury, North Filton and Ashley Down.

Anyone know why the level crossings would need updating as trains run on that route already?

£31 million shortfall sounds a lot, but MetroBust went around £60 million over budget and scrapped its revenue stream without anyone seeming unduly concerned. Maybe a few quid can be had from Gloucester and Wiltshire towards the cost.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on March 03, 2019, 18:03:22
It is rather upbeat.

Quote
Confidence growing that ambitious MetroWest railway will expand
Phase one, which is currently under way, will see the reopening of the Portishead line to passenger trains and improving services on the Severn Beach and Bath to Bristol lines.

Confidence is growing among transport chiefs that the MetroWest railway will be expanded all the way to Gloucester and Westbury in Wiltshire.

[snip]

Weca director of infrastructure David Carter told combined authority councillors: “In the autumn we asked for MetroWest 1 to be extended to Westbury and MetroWest 2 to be extended to Gloucester.

“That’s up to the Department for Transport to negotiate with the franchisee, which is Great Western Railway, to determine whether they will or won’t accept that.

“So we have to make sure we keep, in both MetroWest 1 and 2, the cost of the turnback at Bath and the cost of the turnback at Yate until such time as the department confirms Gloucester and Westbury are in the franchise, and we won’t know that until June or July.”

Mr Carter said at the meeting on Wednesday, February 27, that Weca was working with Network Rail on the necessary infrastructure to extend to Westbury.

He said: “All the suggestions are that Great Western Railway and Network Rail would like to extend to Westbury and Gloucester and that the capital cost saving will be a benefit to the scheme.

“To go to Westbury they need to update three level crossings down the Avon Valley.

“We need to make sure they don’t need land or planning permission to do that and that it’s all done by permitted development.

“If they did, we’d have to make the decision that to run the MetroWest service, you may have to have a turnback.

“So until they can tell us categorically in June or July that you don’t need to do that and can go all the way to Westbury then we can’t make that decision, and the same is true of Yate.

“Network Rail and Great Western Railway would rather there weren’t turnbacks because it adds to operational resilience issues but technically there’s space within the timetable to have that turnback and operate the service.”

I could perhaps be persuaded that turn backs on existing tracks at Bath Spa are not going to be possible every hour - though there are already a couple of service that turn back there each day off pattern.  But on that same basis, I would need to be persuaded that there's sufficient capacity across Bathampton Junction, across Bradford Junction, and at Westbury to reverse the trains.   Westbury really needs the 4th platform re-instating even before 'they' try and turn an extra train around each hour - lost opportunity at Christmas I'm sad to say.  And I'm sad to say it will be very, very hard to persuade me otherwise.

Last Monday's timetabling meeting told us how difficult it is to schedule TransWilts trains / slot them in with the faster and more frequent services on the main line section from Chippenham to Swindon, along the single track sections with a 15 minute-ish transit time (and perhaps pathing time), and then to a platform to reverse at Westbury.   Which is why the Southampton and Portsmouth train leaves just before the train from Swindon (currently carrying passengers want to change for Southampton and Portsmouth gets there).  And in reverse the Swindon train has a habit of leaving just before the train from .... you  guessed it!

I don't see how Westbury will robustly support turning back another train every hour on 3 platforms, unless there is utter disregard to connections.   Or perhaps the MetroWest trains are already in the 2020 draft timetable to "run when required" but the version shared for consulting contained only the trains that will be required?

There is a solution - run all (yes, all) the MetroWest stoppers - every half hour - on to Frome. Alternate trains to reverse there and to carry on to Yeovil Pen Mill.  Bring the Three Rivers train that sits in the bay as Salisbury for nearly an hour on to Westbury, with alternate trains (all at peak times) extended to Swindon and Oxford.  Timetable to provide two-way cross-platform interchanges between one of the MetroWest trains (preferably the Yeovil one) and the Three Rivers to Swindon / Oxford.

Quote
Maybe a few quid can be had from Gloucester and Wiltshire towards the cost.

Interesting suggestion.  "I know you've already got two trains per hour - but we've got trouble dealing with an issue with another train on our patch - can it come onto yours for operations reasons please?".  Then "Oh, thank your for helping us a out of a hole and providing us with a way to save spending our money - would you like to pay for helping is out of the hole?"


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on March 04, 2019, 10:25:20
[
I could perhaps be persuaded that turn backs on existing tracks at Bath Spa are not going to be possible every hour - though there are already a couple of service that turn back there each day off pattern.  But on that same basis, I would need to be persuaded that there's sufficient capacity across Bathampton Junction, across Bradford Junction, and at Westbury to reverse the trains.   Westbury really needs the 4th platform re-instating even before 'they' try and turn an extra train around each hour - lost opportunity at Christmas I'm sad to say.  And I'm sad to say it will be very, very hard to persuade me otherwise.

Last Monday's timetabling meeting told us how difficult it is to schedule TransWilts trains / slot them in with the faster and more frequent services on the main line section from Chippenham to Swindon, along the single track sections with a 15 minute-ish transit time (and perhaps pathing time), and then to a platform to reverse at Westbury.   Which is why the Southampton and Portsmouth train leaves just before the train from Swindon (currently carrying passengers want to change for Southampton and Portsmouth gets there).  And in reverse the Swindon train has a habit of leaving just before the train from .... you  guessed it!

I don't see how Westbury will robustly support turning back another train every hour on 3 platforms, unless there is utter disregard to connections.   Or perhaps the MetroWest trains are already in the 2020 draft timetable to "run when required" but the version shared for consulting contained only the trains that will be required?

There is a solution - run all (yes, all) the MetroWest stoppers - every half hour - on to Frome. Alternate trains to reverse there and to carry on to Yeovil Pen Mill.  Bring the Three Rivers train that sits in the bay as Salisbury for nearly an hour on to Westbury, with alternate trains (all at peak times) extended to Swindon and Oxford.  Timetable to provide two-way cross-platform interchanges between one of the MetroWest trains (preferably the Yeovil one) and the Three Rivers to Swindon / Oxford.

It looks as though what is saved on the cost of turnbacks may still be spent on providing capacity somewhere else. I like the Frome idea, although before long, you could end up in Portsmouth or Southampton. That Three Rivers Train - does it sit quietly for no reason, or is it the crew's meal break, as happens at Temple Meads with the Waterloo trains?

Quote
Maybe a few quid can be had from Gloucester and Wiltshire towards the cost.
Quote
Interesting suggestion.  "I know you've already got two trains per hour - but we've got trouble dealing with an issue with another train on our patch - can it come onto yours for operations reasons please?".  Then "Oh, thank your for helping us a out of a hole and providing us with a way to save spending our money - would you like to pay for helping is out of the hole?"

I didn't think that one through, did !?  ;D


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on March 04, 2019, 16:48:46
Pardon my ignorance, but is this perhaps one of those cases like Crossrail to Maidenhead, where everyone knew that Reading would be the final terminus, but they had to say Maidenhead to make the numbers work?

Of course Gloucester and Westbury would be desirable in more ways than one, because if everything goes well, once you get everything going and prove the business case, when you get to late CP6 and the rolling stock needs replacing, you build a nice business case for electrifying the lot, without depending as heavily on XC.

Playing further fantasy railways, if you had four platforms at Chippenham, could the ability to loop stoppers be enough to make reopening Corsham and Wooton Basset realistic?




Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on March 18, 2019, 17:31:23
Further update regarding Portway Parkway received from Bristol City Council for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Bristol City Council
There has been some delay in Bristol City Council determining the planning application whilst some follow up ecological issues were addressed. All outstanding issues have now been addressed and we are expecting to get an update on determination by the end of this week.

The current cost estimate for the scheme includes provision for some minor signalling works connected to the operation of the level crossing just north of the site on West Town Road. This is because the sighting of the current signal which operates the crossing for trains heading towards Avonmouth would mean that additional barrier downtime at the level crossing would be incurred whilst trains stopped at the new station. This signal mitigation will mean that the level crossing can be operated once the train is ready to leave the new station thereby removing any potential for additional delay.

EDIT: Also posted here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21203.msg260680#msg260680) due to ongoing relevant thread.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 18, 2019, 17:35:05
Thank you Lee good to know .


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on March 18, 2019, 22:31:29
Thanks from me too Lee.

On the subject of costs of the Portway Station (which has also been raised on another thread too) the 2013 quote of £400k was based, I think, on using new kit form, bolt together platforms. Why the more expensive "bricks and motar" option was chosen instead at something like £2.2m I do not know but I would like to think that the powers that be see the Severn Beach Line as being important enough to merit this more permanent structure.
Lee's previous post refers to the cost including "minor signalling works" which might translate as "inexpensive signalling works", or is there no such thing?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2019, 00:06:43
Lee's previous post refers to the cost including "minor signalling works" which might translate as "inexpensive signalling works", or is there no such thing?

Stop boards to indicate where the driver pulls up to.

Also (perhaps) sensors to know when the train arrives / leaves for train monitoring purposes.  Giving data for operation use, but also the feeds that station displays and industry feeds from which things like Rail Time Trains pick up their information.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 19, 2019, 09:10:12
Also (perhaps) sensors to know when the train arrives / leaves for train monitoring purposes.  Giving data for operation use, but also the feeds that station displays and industry feeds from which things like Rail Time Trains pick up their information.

That'd be nice. Am I right in thinking that there's nothing between Clifton Down and Avonmouth at the moment?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on March 19, 2019, 09:37:02
Other than Sea Mills!!....


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on March 19, 2019, 09:51:59
Other than Sea Mills!!....

Ah, OK; Sea Mills doesn't show an 'actual' time on trackit, but realtimetrains shows it as well as Shirehampton...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on April 01, 2019, 18:01:01
Perhaps some valuable local insight into the viability of P & R serving an urban rail based system will be obtained from the results of the Bristol Portway P&R station when it is finally up and running (and when the service becomes half hourly).

I wouldn't hold your breath about that... Line capacity is not there; the signalling installation couldn't cope; the train with its circuitous route actually tales longer than the bus currently does to get to BTM; and even the provision of a simple single platform might run into difficulties over having to purchase land and/or lose parking spaces (which itself is the opposite intention of a P&R scheme ;) ) Whilst doing some research about this on another forum I happened to notice that a) the only people proposing this are some Bristol City Councillors and b) the P&R bus service receives a council subsidy. It might not be too much of a leap to conclude that the only reason some are in favour of it is to save the council money and put the financial burden on DfT and GWR...


I sure won't hold my breath until it opens but the completion date is by the end of the year, all funded, land aquired and ground surveys complete. The minor signalling changes are, I am informed, included in the budget and half hourly services will be part of the Metrowest project.

I notice that Graham is involved with the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways. Perhaps he can give us an update

Latest update received:

Further update regarding Portway Parkway received from Bristol City Council for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Bristol City Council
There has been some delay in Bristol City Council determining the planning application whilst some follow up ecological issues were addressed. All outstanding issues have now been addressed and we are expecting to get an update on determination by the end of this week.

The current cost estimate for the scheme includes provision for some minor signalling works connected to the operation of the level crossing just north of the site on West Town Road. This is because the sighting of the current signal which operates the crossing for trains heading towards Avonmouth would mean that additional barrier downtime at the level crossing would be incurred whilst trains stopped at the new station. This signal mitigation will mean that the level crossing can be operated once the train is ready to leave the new station thereby removing any potential for additional delay.

EDIT: Also posted here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21203.msg260680#msg260680) due to ongoing relevant thread.

I will ask again early next week.

Planning consent for Portway Parkway Railway Station now granted - details and documents here. (https://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=PC097NDNG3E00&activeTab=summary)

I have a detailed catchup on Portway Parkway pencilled in for 15th April. Please feel free to have a good look, and if there any aspects you want more details on, or if you have any other Portway Parkway-related questions, then let me know before then and i will ask.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 01, 2019, 18:15:47
Lee, thanks for posting that.  Although its not in my 'local' area I've always had an interest in this type of scheme since producing several ideas in my RT days.  One thing not clear is, on the drawings, it appears that you have to walk through the car park, along the road, from the bus set down/pick up point.  Have I read that correctly (or seen it properly)?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 02, 2019, 12:37:56
According to the 'Transport Development Management' document (in the planning submission Lee links to):

Quote
Any local residents, commuters etc. wishing to access and use the new platform and bus services will be able to access Portway Park and Ride via the existing entrances as they will remain unchanged as part of this proposal.

Although there are new facilities being provided for the platform, the existing cycle parking, electric vehicle charge points, disabled parking and public car parking will be available for rail passengers.

The 'Transport Statement' says:

Quote
The Objectives of the Project
3.6 As part of the funding bid to the DfT the project has outlined a number of objectives which
the scheme should deliver;
xTo provide an alternative mode of transport for car users entering the centre of Bristol;
xTo improve connectivity to other stations in north and inner Bristol;
xTo provide direct connections to the wider rail network via Bristol Temple Meads;
xTo improve connectivity to the Temple Quarter Enterprise Zone and the planned new
Bristol Arena at Bristol Temple Meads, as well as the Avonmouth Severnside
Enterprise Area;
xTo enhance the carrying capacity of the local rail network;
xTo complement the existing bus based Park & Ride service which primarily serves the
city centre;
xTo reduce road congestion, airborne pollution and car parking demand in inner Bristol,
particularly at peak times;
xTo make a positive contribution to social well-being, life opportunities and improving
quality of life (along the affected corridors in particular);
xTo reduce the adverse environmental impacts of the local transport network as a
whole;
xTo deliver a new single platform, located adjacent to the existing local authority
operated Portway Park & Ride facility;
xSufficient passenger capacity should meet the forecast usage demands of the P&R
facility;
xAccess from the P&R facility to the Station which ensures access for all users; and
xA new station which provides broadly a 40 minute passenger service frequency until
MetroWest Phase 1 is delivered and then a half hourly service frequency.

...and

Quote
Pedestrian/ Cycle Access
3.14 This will remain as the existing existing car park access points to the pavement and public roads from the side of the Portway which is adjacent to the entrance point for the park and ride buses. Access through the car park will use existing paths/ ramp and steps. The only minor construction works required are infill around two of the existing tree pits to be capped with permeable resin bound gravel to essentially increase the width of walkway around two trees (which in itself would not require planning permission) to improve the width of the pavement for wheelchair/ pram users without having to remove the two affected trees.

So in essence the train service is simply an addition to the existing bus-based Park and Ride; this is not meant to be a bus/rail interchange. Given that the endpoints of the bus service are similar to those of the proposed train service, it is hard to imagine many people wishing to go from one to the other.

To my mind there are two very good reasons that this station should be called 'Portway Park and Ride' rather than 'Portway Parkway'

1. It is a commuter station which will be largely used by people travelling relatively short distances into Bristol and, perhaps, Bath, and the site is already known as Portway Park and Ride. 'Parkway' suggests a travel hub with long-distance (say inter-city) options, to my mind.
2. Portway Parkway is a very, very silly name.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on April 02, 2019, 13:18:44
Interesting point - "Parkway" does seem to be a default brand name in the UK for such stations on the National Rail network. Here's some others:

Coleshill Parkway

East Midlands Parkway

Stratford-upon-Avon Parkway

Sutton Parkway

Tame Bridge Parkway

Warwick Parkway

Aylesbury Vale Parkway

Didcot Parkway

Haddenham and Thame Parkway

Luton Airport Parkway

Oxford Parkway

Southampton Airport Parkway

Whittlesford Parkway

Buckshaw Parkway

Horwich Parkway

Liverpool South Parkway

Bodmin Parkway

Bristol Parkway

Tiverton Parkway

Ebbw Vale Parkway

Port Talbot Parkway

I'm not having much luck finding National Rail network stations with "Park & Ride" in the title. There is a station on the Swanage Railway that many refer to as "Norden Park & Ride", but its official name is "Norden".

Anyone want to add to the list?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on April 02, 2019, 13:32:30
Anyone want to add to the list?

Lostock Parkway?

Only "Rides" are
East Kilbride
West Kilbride


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on April 02, 2019, 13:59:02
Nope - Just as with the station formerly known as Alfreton & Mansfield Parkway, its just plain old "Lostock" now:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/LOT/details.html

https://youtu.be/Z_GzkCkPUko

Debate past, present and future as to the name though:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lostock-or-lostock-parkway.34367/

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/17340941.platform-could-be-brought-back-to-life-at-railway-station/


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 02, 2019, 14:09:26
Hmm... quite a few of the stations on Lee's list don't meet my definition of a 'Parkway'; I've obviously fallen into the trap of trying to prescribe (rather than describe) a usage..!

Still think Portway Parkway is a silly name though.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on April 02, 2019, 15:14:53
Hmm... quite a few of the stations on Lee's list don't meet my definition of a 'Parkway'; I've obviously fallen into the trap of trying to prescribe (rather than describe) a usage..!

Still think Portway Parkway is a silly name though.

Isn't "Parkway" the modern word for "Road" on the end of a station name?  Means "as near as we'll get you" in many cases.

Beaulieu Road, Builth Road, Llanbister Road, Stapelton Road.  Confused by a duplicate use where the "Road" is the road name in the town, such as Gainsborough Lea Road, Blackhorse Road, Angel Road, etc.

Castle Cary -> Shepton Mallet Road ... no - I had better not suggest that.

But, really, what else would you call the new park and ride station on the parkway?  It's all very well us being critical but ... what alternative?  Looking at a map - but just a quick look - no new name shouts out.   Sponsored name? Public competition - "Station McStation Face"?  Some sort of commemorative name?  Perhaps we have too many "Brunel"s ... but we could do worse; name it after anyone more recent and I suspect you'll have arguments.  "Beeching's End" to celebrate railways making a comeback?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 02, 2019, 15:58:22
...Stapelton Road

Stapleton Road is the road to Stapleton, but Stapleton Road Station (SRD) is on Stapleton Road - right on it, not 'as near as we'll get to'! The road is more of a destination than the erstwhile village it leads to.

But, really, what else would you call the new park and ride station on the parkway? 

Portway Parkway, as proposed, is on the Portway, not the Parkway (which is the M32, for us with long memories); in a way you've made my point that it's a confusing name.

I can see that whoever is responsible for naming railway stations sees 'Parkway' as a sort of brand name - but applied unthinkingly, this can lead to the kind of absurdity whereby the venerable Grand Hotel in Bristol was taken over by Thistle Hotels and became the Bristol Thistle (and if you don't see the problem with that, try saying it with a mouthful of spongecake).

I'd call the new station Portway Park and Ride, which is the well-established name for the place it serves.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on April 02, 2019, 16:03:51
Hmm... quite a few of the stations on Lee's list don't meet my definition of a 'Parkway'; I've obviously fallen into the trap of trying to prescribe (rather than describe) a usage..!

Still think Portway Parkway is a silly name though.

Isn't "Parkway" the modern word for "Road" on the end of a station name?  Means "as near as we'll get you" in many cases.

Beaulieu Road, Builth Road, Llanbister Road, Stapelton Road.  Confused by a duplicate use where the "Road" is the road name in the town, such as Gainsborough Lea Road, Blackhorse Road, Angel Road, etc.

Castle Cary -> Shepton Mallet Road ... no - I had better not suggest that.

But, really, what else would you call the new park and ride station on the parkway?  It's all very well us being critical but ... what alternative?  Looking at a map - but just a quick look - no new name shouts out.   Sponsored name? Public competition - "Station McStation Face"?  Some sort of commemorative name?  Perhaps we have too many "Brunel"s ... but we could do worse; name it after anyone more recent and I suspect you'll have arguments.  "Beeching's End" to celebrate railways making a comeback?
The first of the Parkways was the Bristol one. During the planning stages it was known as 'Bristol North'; the Western Region management ran a public competition to find a name and the result was, drum roll, 'Bristol Parkway'. The winner was quoted as saying that he got the name from the nearby and newly completed Parkway motorway.

But in this case I would suggest that 'Portway Station' would tick all the boxes - it's really no different to thousands of other stations across the country.

(PS, there was apparently a proposal to name a new stretch of road in, or near, East Grinstead 'Beeching Cut'...)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Celestial on April 02, 2019, 16:35:32
I think the Parkway name has been devalued over the years. Originally X Parkway meant a station that is close to X but not in it, easy to get to (well Bristol Parkway was in 1972) and which you can get to and from X quickly, and which has been provided with a nice big car park.  So you don't have to drive into the congested centre of X to catch the train.

But now we have stations like Didcot and Port Talbot which have just had a bigger car park built and Parkway tacked on to the name. But then, lots of stations have had car park extensions in recent years.   


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: didcotdean on April 02, 2019, 17:01:06
Didcot is somewhat of an unusual case in that when the car park was laid out on the former Provender Stores site there was still nothing much north of the railway, and it was possible to drive all but the last 100 metres or so to the car park along national speed limit roads at least from the A34. So in some ways it fitted the 'out of town and easy to get to by car' concept without much of a stretch. The development to the north though was already underway, and with more recent ones out to the west it is now more of a town centre station than it ever was, and the road from the A34 is jammed in both directions peak time.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Oxonhutch on April 02, 2019, 17:29:25
I think the Parkway name has been devalued over the years. Originally X Parkway meant a station that is close to X but not in it, ...   

A bit like the original GWR use of the handle "Road". Wallingford Road station was some three miles from its erstwhile destination.

Any idea what 'X' Road Station was furthest from its 'X'? Genuine question - I have no idea.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on April 02, 2019, 17:51:53
Any idea what 'X' Road Station was furthest from its 'X'? Genuine question - I have no idea.

No - but some examples
Builth to Builth Road - about 2 miles
Clarbeston to Clarbeston Road - about 2 miles (*)
Beaulieu to Beaulieu Road - about 3.5 miles
Llanbister to Llanbister Road - about 5 miles (*)
But I'm doubtful about those marked (*) as to whether the road was already "The Clarbeston Road" and "The Llanbister Road" before the railway came.  Llanbister in particular is a small cluster of houses, 5 miles from the "Road" station.

Don't ask about Derby to Derby Road.

Similar question with "Junction".  Shortest - Stourbridge, Longest perhaps Limerick.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on April 02, 2019, 17:57:06
Rather agree that Portway Parkway does sound a tad silly, a bit like the line in Airplane: "What's our vector Victor?".

Just plain Portway (P&R) might just about do.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on April 02, 2019, 18:02:05
I think the Parkway name has been devalued over the years. Originally X Parkway meant a station that is close to X but not in it, ...   

A bit like the original GWR use of the handle "Road". Wallingford Road station was some three miles from its erstwhile destination.

Any idea what 'X' Road Station was furthest from its 'X'? Genuine question - I have no idea.

I suspect it's unanswerable. Some Roads don't go to the place (e.g. Derby Road, in Ipswich), and some do but are so long this is obviously not the station that serves the place (e.g. London Road, Guildford or Brighton). So maybe the question to puzzle over is whether any are borderline - does it serve the place or not?

And then there's Spring Road - how close is spring? Well, at this time of year ...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on April 02, 2019, 18:11:58
A visitor new to Bristol, wishing to travel to the St Andrews Park locale would be ill advised to get off the Severn Beach Line at St Andrews Road!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 02, 2019, 20:23:52
A visitor new to Bristol, wishing to travel to the St Andrews Park locale would be ill advised to get off the Severn Beach Line at St Andrews Road!

OK I'll bite.  Why is that then?......


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on April 02, 2019, 21:14:04
A visitor new to Bristol, wishing to travel to the St Andrews Park locale would be ill advised to get off the Severn Beach Line at St Andrews Road!

OK I'll bite.  Why is that then?......

Cos Montpelier is the station for St. Andrews Park.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on April 02, 2019, 21:17:51
A visitor new to Bristol, wishing to travel to the St Andrews Park locale would be ill advised to get off the Severn Beach Line at St Andrews Road!

OK I'll bite.  Why is that then?......

St Andrews Road is just past Avonmouth on the way to Severn Beach while the St Andrews area is served by Montpelier Station on the same line but at the opposite end.

Edit: Oops, Martyjon just beat me to it, and rather more succinctly too!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 02, 2019, 21:51:37
OK.  I get it.  Thanks to both. ;D


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 02, 2019, 22:20:10
Bristol once had five churches dedicated to St Andrew, and they tend not to have fared well.

  • St Andrew in Avonmouth, after which St Andrews Road (SAR) is named, was bombed and rebuilt in 1955.
  • St Andrew, Clifton, was destroyed by bombing in 1940.
  • St Andrew, Hartcliffe escaped the bombs by the cunning expedient of being built after the war, in 1956.
  • St Andrew, Montpelier (for yes! the Parish of St Andrew and the district of Montpelier are one and the same - officially) fell into disuse and was demolished in 1969.
  • Last but not least, St-Andrew-the-Less in Hotwells was rather badly singed in the blitz, was repaired, but was finally demolished to be replaced by some frankly rather uninspiring grey concrete flats in the 1960s.







Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Robin Summerhill on April 03, 2019, 15:19:45
I think the Parkway name has been devalued over the years. Originally X Parkway meant a station that is close to X but not in it, ...   

A bit like the original GWR use of the handle "Road". Wallingford Road station was some three miles from its erstwhile destination.

Any idea what 'X' Road Station was furthest from its 'X'? Genuine question - I have no idea.

On the matter of the new station, if "Parkway" is the brand name (and we could say it is) then what is wrong with Avonmouth Parkway?

On the matter of "Roads" it wasn't only the GWR - take Berkeley Road as an example

On the matter of distance, that might depend how far back in history you go. When first opened, Micheldever was called Andover Road because the direct Basingstoke to Salisbury line had yet to be built. The was 7.5 miles from the town whose name it bore


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 03, 2019, 17:06:13
Portway Parkway is silly, inaccurate and will inevitably get called Porkway Partway. But Portway Park and Ride will inevitably get called Partway Pork and Ride; which is worse, if you think about it...  :o

Avonmouth Portway or Avonmouth Park and Ride might be okay but I think johnyw's suggestion of plain Portway is sensible and accurate.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on April 03, 2019, 17:38:05
Portway Parkway is silly, inaccurate and will inevitably get called Porkway Partway.

You read it here first, folks! http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18835.msg222812#msg222812


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: jamestheredengine on April 03, 2019, 17:38:11
Surprised no-one's offered Briton Ferry Road yet as the height of the "Road" absurdity. Only about two miles from Briton Ferry, but on the wrong side of the Neath estuary and involving a boat back when it existed (perhaps unsurprisingly, it closed in 1936). I can't imagine any case in which a passenger would ever have chosen to use that station to get to Briton Ferry. Even from the Brecon direction, it would have made more sense to get off at Neath Riverside and either walk over to General station for the South Wales Main Line or get on a bus or (before 1920) tram.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on April 03, 2019, 18:03:48
Portway Parkway is silly, inaccurate and will inevitably get called Porkway Partway.

You read it here first, folks! http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18835.msg222812#msg222812

And with these potential sponsors a mere 5-10 minutes drive away...

https://www.towers-thompson.co.uk/avonmouth.html

http://www.bmfoods.co.uk


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 03, 2019, 18:19:05
Ha! I'll have to remember to call it Partway Porkway instead!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on April 08, 2019, 16:17:47
I had a conversation with a senior member of the Portishead Railway Group earlier this week, who assures me the timescale is unduly pessimistic. He thinks it will be up and running by 2022.

Today's news about the funding makes this even more interesting!
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/all-about/portishead

Edit to add relevant link.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on May 07, 2019, 08:04:32
Today's news about the funding makes this even more interesting!
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/all-about/portishead


Somebody at the Post had to be the first to confuse Portway with Portbury, I suppose. The article provides further ambiguity by the simple omission of a hyphen:

Quote
The platform will be long enough for five car trains and Network Rail also plans to install a ticket machine at the station - something which is not available on some of the other stations along the Severn Beach line.

"Whoopee - Motorail is back!".


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 07, 2019, 11:21:58
I can see it now: Severn Beach line to be extended to Portishead on new Avonmouth Bridge!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2019, 11:58:19
I can see it now: Severn Beach line to be extended to Portishead on new Avonmouth Bridge!

Branch off Severn Beach line.  430 metres of track needed ... see attachment.  Saves massive expense in Avon Gorge.  But probably adds massive expense and an operational swing or lift bridge for occasional use.  May result in need to redouble the Severn Beach line out as far as Sea Mills.  Paves way for high frequency (15 minute) service Temple Meads to Clifton Down inclusive, with alternate trains extended to Avonmouth & Severn Beach, and to Pill and Portishead. Silly idea.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 07, 2019, 13:24:59
I was wondering when the Bridge would make a reappearance 😉


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2019, 13:42:21
I was wondering when the Bridge would make a reappearance 😉

Comments keep cropping up that keep making me wonder.  I look at other bridge work - the Barmouth Bridge (twice as long) and Pont Brewit (length of bridge itself very similar; no need for road) and I do find myself wondering ... but as I say, silly idea.   Just would like someone to confirm that it really is silly  :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-33512539/new-20m-pont-briwet-bridge-officially-opens-to-cars

http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=pont-briwet-penrhyndeudraeth


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 07, 2019, 14:44:47
I had in mind some sort of addition to the M5 bridge, rails tacked on to the side. I think that beats your idea, Graham, for silliness!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 07, 2019, 14:46:52
I had in mind some sort of addition to the M5 bridge, rails tacked on to the side. I think that beats your idea, Graham, for silliness!

Certainly beats it for hilliness...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on May 07, 2019, 15:38:07
When widening of the bridge, was first mooted, many moons ago, one solution suggested by the Japanese, became known as the Nippon Clipon ! ::)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chopper1944 on May 07, 2019, 15:52:12
Why is a bridge to Portishead from the Severn Beach Line a silly idea?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on May 07, 2019, 16:55:39
Why is a bridge to Portishead from the Severn Beach Line a silly idea?

The Avon is part of the Port of Bristol, and large ships have a right of navigation as far as the harbour entrance. The current "air draught" under Avonmouth bridge is about 30 m at high tide, so any new bridge would need to be as high, movable, or its lower height agreed by the port company.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2019, 16:57:03
Why is a bridge to Portishead from the Severn Beach Line a silly idea?

I guess I have assumed it must be a silly idea because it's not something I've seen suggested anywhere, and I can spot some immediate problems.    But there there are almost inevitably initial problems that need to be addressed with any project.   What can I see ...

1a. It would be a low level crossing of a navigable waterway so would require some sort of swing or lifting section that allowed vessel clearance of at least 20m ... and as the bridge would be on an angle, that would mean, say, a 40m span that could be taken out.   That can be done - Tower Bridge in London has 2 x 30m Bascules and is over 120 years old - see https://www.bristol.ac.uk/civilengineering/bridges/Pages/NotableBridges/TowerBridge.html and note a credit to Ismbard Kingdom Brunel's son on in the design.   To get a measure of ship / boat size, the big lock into the floating harbour takes a vessel up to 14m wide and the PS Waverley has a beam of 17.45m (can turn outside the floating harbour).

1b. A lift / swing bridge would require rail traffic to be interrupted while a boat went through and it's conceivable this might require a service to be cancelled.  Probably need to build that limitation into the spec somehow / have an alternative "boat passing" timetable / contingenty plan so that the lines to Avonmouth don't get jammed with a train waiting to go to Portishead ... and so that TOC delay / repay systems don't end up paying all the fares back out when a boat pass!

1c. I would hope the bridge was around 6 metres above mean tide high water mark to minimise the need for swings - that's the same standard as the Plimsoll bridge.   However, bigger vessels would typically be at the Cumberland Basin at high tide,  and when they pass the Sea Mills bridge they'll be somewhat off peak tide.

2. The tidal range is enormous, the mud deep ... a pretty hostile build environment. Note that other bridges downstream from Bristol do NOT have supports in the water (probably for very good reason) but I suspect this one would probably need such supports because of the opening nature of the bridge.

3. Cost ... but then how does that compare to all the engineering works in the gorge?

4. JFDI ... we have spent so long looking at options for Portishead we just need to get on and do it and not start throwing other options into the pot (silly me!).  Someone will be suggesting tram trains next!

Against those issues (and please, tell me if you can see more), you have what looks like a pretty logical route - going where people are likely to want (needs checking) and removing all sorts of other engineering and environmental issues.   With a redoubled Severn Beach line to Sea Mills Junction, you're set for a 15 minutes service all stations Temple Meads (or Bedminster??) to Clifton Down, with alternate trains on for Portishead and for The Beach.


So ... I have raised six paragraphs of issues ... and a single paragraph of why it should be done.  Silly idea.


Added while I as typing ...

Why is a bridge to Portishead from the Severn Beach Line a silly idea?

The Avon is part of the Port of Bristol, and large ships have a right of navigation as far as the harbour entrance. The current "air draught" under Avonmouth bridge is about 30 m at high tide, so any new bridge would need to be as high, movable, or its lower height agreed by the port company.

Yep, my item 1 of 4  :D :D


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chopper1944 on May 07, 2019, 17:27:36
Thank you for the wonderful reply and comments as to the problems which would need to be solved for a bridge to be constructed. Are there many large boats which would to still reach the harbour these days?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Celestial on May 07, 2019, 17:49:55
The Bristol Harbour Festival would be a rather lame event if access to the docks was stopped.  I can imagine the uproar would be heard on this side of the Bristol Channel if it was proposed to do that.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 07, 2019, 18:29:18
So: Tunnel, anyone?  ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2019, 18:47:15
So: Tunnel, anyone?  ;)

Long way down and up ... not sure where you would engineer the slopes.  How about twin swivels?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/seamillsbridge.jpg)

Somewhat diagrammatic (i.e. not to scale) but I have measured the river width and calculated lengths and angles. Add an extra metre to the width for a walkway.  The mitre on the joint ends would be far less pronounced and would have electric operated tapered bolts to lock into place before trains ran at each of the three joints. I have gone for symetric (balanced) leaves to avoid awkward counterbalance weights.

Note - Barton Swing Aquaduct - 50m overhang each side of the central  rotation point - makes our 19m look puny! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barton_Swing_Aqueduct . And that swings full of water, so much heavier!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 07, 2019, 19:05:34
Maybe the Clifton Rocks Railway could be transported to Avonmouth and deepened somewhat?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 07, 2019, 19:26:29
I'm not sure I entirely understand every detail of grahame's proposal - is it loosely based on the arguably-not-entirely-successful Combe Hay caisson lock?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on May 07, 2019, 19:34:03
From the Marine Operations Procedures of BPC:

The maximum dimensions of any vessel transiting the river Avon are as follows:-
  • Max Length 70 m
  • Max Draught 4.5 m
  • Beam 14 m
  • Or any other vessels as may be determined by the SHA.
The M5 Bridge height is charted (Admiralty Chart 1859) as 29m at HAT
Notes:
SHA should I think be CHA, the Competent Harbour Authority (BPC).
HAT is Highest Astronomical Tide.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2019, 19:35:37
I'm not sure I entirely understand every detail of grahame's proposal - is it loosely based on the arguably-not-entirely-successful Combe Hay caisson lock?

No ... what you see is a plan view.  Swing spans, rather like the Barton Swing Aquaduct.  Actually rather well within tested engineering for the most part.   The two elements of concern are the sinking of the piers / cassions in a very hostile river, and the joining up of the two swing spans midstream.  However - with chunky tapered wedges in substantial steel, that should not be a problem.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ferdan_Railway_Bridge for a bigger example of a twin swing bridge


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 07, 2019, 19:44:48
So sorry, I thought you were proposing a swivelling tunnel to get to depth quicker!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on May 07, 2019, 19:56:56
So sorry, I thought you were proposing a swivelling tunnel to get to depth quicker!

Go on, be bold. We've got loads of boat lifts on canals; so why not a train lift?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on May 07, 2019, 21:25:47
On my first visit to Auckland New Zealand I was told that the Auckland Harbour Bridge had recently been widened by the Japanese who had bolted, must have been big bolts, brackets, big ones too, onto the outsides of the bridge to widen it and then constructed the additional road lanes using the installed brackets.

Then of course, Sydney Harbour Bridge has a double track rail line crossing it with the highway either side.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on May 07, 2019, 21:29:21
So sorry, I thought you were proposing a swivelling tunnel to get to depth quicker!

Go on, be bold. We've got loads of boat lifts on canals; so why not a train lift?


Also why not a rail transporter bridge.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on May 07, 2019, 21:49:52
What would Brunel do ?

A broad gauge, atmospheric, suspended bridge with billiard straight rails,or a beached Great Eastern embedded in each bank, with a hole cut amidships, and swivelling half bridges rather like half arm level crossing barriers ???


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 07, 2019, 22:56:11
On my first visit to Auckland New Zealand I was told that the Auckland Harbour Bridge had recently been widened by the Japanese who had bolted, must have been big bolts, brackets, big ones too, onto the outsides of the bridge to widen it and then constructed the additional road lanes using the installed brackets.

Then of course, Sydney Harbour Bridge has a double track rail line crossing it with the highway either side.
Known locally as The Nippon Clip On.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: ellendune on May 08, 2019, 21:37:10
What would Brunel do ?

A broad gauge, atmospheric, suspended bridge with billiard straight rails,or a beached Great Eastern embedded in each bank, with a hole cut amidships, and swivelling half bridges rather like half arm level crossing barriers ???
A project which would have been completed extensively over-budget


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Lee on May 11, 2019, 19:28:52
Planning consent for Portway Parkway Railway Station now granted - details and documents here. (https://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=PC097NDNG3E00&activeTab=summary)

I have a detailed catchup on Portway Parkway pencilled in for 15th April. Please feel free to have a good look, and if there any aspects you want more details on, or if you have any other Portway Parkway-related questions, then let me know before then and i will ask.

Lee, thanks for posting that.  Although its not in my 'local' area I've always had an interest in this type of scheme since producing several ideas in my RT days.  One thing not clear is, on the drawings, it appears that you have to walk through the car park, along the road, from the bus set down/pick up point.  Have I read that correctly (or seen it properly)?

My apologies, both for the delay in the Portway Psrkway catchup which we didnt manage to do until yesterday, and for the fact that there isnt currently a huge amount to report. Bristol City Council have provided an answer to SandTEngineer's question though, along with a short update for the benefit of forum members:

Quote from: Bristol City Council
Yes the proposals maintain the current pedestrian route into the Park & Ride site, down the steps and ramp into the car park. Some improvements to this route will be made to enable an appropriate pedestrian route down to the station entrance.

The section of car park to the south is currently not in use. This area was laid out when the site was expanded so that further expansion can be achieved relatively easily. The expansion is not part of this station project but as parking demand increases we will consider the appropriate time to look at further expansion, subject to funding availability. This could also be an opportunity to look at an additional pedestrian entrance should it be felt appropriate.

We are currently working towards commencing detailed design for the project now that planning consent has been secured.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on May 12, 2019, 22:57:22
Of course, there is a tunnel below the river already, containing theconveyor installed to carry coal from Portbury dock to the coal terminal at St Andrews Road. Coal having gone out of fashion lately, I don't think it is being used. I'm sure that with a bit of ingenuity it could be widened and properly aligned. It was built quickly enough with little of the usual palaver when the residents of Avonmouth realised that the original idea was for an elevated conveyor running alongside their houses, and that work was about to start. A meeting arranged by the council to reassure them that it wouldn't make much noise saw an unprecedented attendance, and many pitchforks.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 13, 2019, 12:34:04
Weather permitting, so that's a big "if" already, I'm thinking of taking a quick jaunt coastwards on the Severn Riviera Express to see if there is any indication of work starting on the Portway Station site. Does anyone know if this would be a waste of time as well as the ticket fare?
I'm still not certain about the stipulation that's been mentioned about the funding being conditional on completion this year. If it is and there's not an orange jacket to be seen yet, are there going to be some interesting times ahead?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Western Pathfinder on June 13, 2019, 14:44:19
Weather permitting, so that's a big "if" already, I'm thinking of taking a quick jaunt coastwards on the Severn Riviera Express to see if there is any indication of work starting on the Portway Station site. Does anyone know if this would be a waste of time as well as the ticket fare?
I'm still not certain about the stipulation that's been mentioned about the funding being conditional on completion this year. If it is and there's not an orange jacket to be seen yet, are there going to be some interesting times ahead?

It's not hissing cogs & dats here at the moment,however as of now there is no sign of any work on the proposed site of the station.
Hope that saved you a trip Johnney.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 13, 2019, 17:29:18
Weather permitting, so that's a big "if" already, I'm thinking of taking a quick jaunt coastwards on the Severn Riviera Express to see if there is any indication of work starting on the Portway Station site. Does anyone know if this would be a waste of time as well as the ticket fare?
I'm still not certain about the stipulation that's been mentioned about the funding being conditional on completion this year. If it is and there's not an orange jacket to be seen yet, are there going to be some interesting times ahead?

It's only three quid return from Temple Meads, so not a big loss. A short trip around Avonmouth can be rewarding. An even shorter trip even more rewarding. When all else fails, may I recommend the George in Shirehampton High Street, opposite the Jobccentre? Less dangerous than the Lifeboat, some say. The chippy is pretty good, too.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: WelshBluebird on June 14, 2019, 13:48:37
Weather permitting, so that's a big "if" already, I'm thinking of taking a quick jaunt coastwards on the Severn Riviera Express to see if there is any indication of work starting on the Portway Station site. Does anyone know if this would be a waste of time as well as the ticket fare?
I'm still not certain about the stipulation that's been mentioned about the funding being conditional on completion this year. If it is and there's not an orange jacket to be seen yet, are there going to be some interesting times ahead?

It's only three quid return from Temple Meads, so not a big loss. A short trip around Avonmouth can be rewarding. An even shorter trip even more rewarding. When all else fails, may I recommend the George in Shirehampton High Street, opposite the Jobccentre? Less dangerous than the Lifeboat, some say. The chippy is pretty good, too.

Or The Lamplighters which is much nicer than either and is nearer the station!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 14, 2019, 14:34:26

Or The Lamplighters which is much nicer than either and is nearer the station!

My goodness! I had forgotten the Lamplighters! Nice place, popular with young mums at lunchtime for some reason.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 14, 2019, 14:35:11
Weather permitting, so that's a big "if" already, I'm thinking of taking a quick jaunt coastwards on the Severn Riviera Express to see if there is any indication of work starting on the Portway Station site. Does anyone know if this would be a waste of time as well as the ticket fare?
I'm still not certain about the stipulation that's been mentioned about the funding being conditional on completion this year. If it is and there's not an orange jacket to be seen yet, are there going to be some interesting times ahead?

It's only three quid return from Temple Meads, so not a big loss. A short trip around Avonmouth can be rewarding. An even shorter trip even more rewarding. When all else fails, may I recommend the George in Shirehampton High Street, opposite the Jobccentre? Less dangerous than the Lifeboat, some say. The chippy is pretty good, too.

Or £2 return if I start from Clifton Grand Central Station instead of my usual Redland (and 1/3 off with my railcard).
Anyway, Western Pathfinder's reply yesterday rather told me all I needed to know. As for the Lifeboat pub, it's historic reputation still seems valid! 😮


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 14, 2019, 14:37:33
Or £2 return if I start from Clifton Grand Central Station instead of my usual Redland (and 1/3 off with my railcard).
Anyway, Western Pathfinder's reply yesterday rather told me all I needed to know. As for the Lifeboat pub, it's historic reputation still seems valid! 😮

I worked in that Jobcentre for a while, and once or twice had to deal with the fallout from the Lifeboat. No names. No pack drill. What goes in Shire JC stays in Shire JC.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 14, 2019, 14:38:34

Or The Lamplighters which is much nicer than either and is nearer the station!

My goodness! I had forgotten the Lamplighters! Nice place, popular with young mums at lunchtime for some reason.

Yes indeed, not been there since nineteen eightysomething. Pleased to hear it was recentlyish rescued from closure. Been past it a few times and it looks very good.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 14, 2019, 14:48:07
Yes indeed, not been there since nineteen eightysomething. Pleased to hear it was recentlyish rescued from closure. Been past it a few times and it looks very good.

I retired from serving Queen and country 3 years ago, and it had certainly been rescued a couple of years prior to that. I had a most acceptable fish and chips there around six months after the rescue, rinsed down, if I recall correctly, by a couple of pints of Bath Ales "Gem", produced by my pals Roger, Richard, and Craig. Now all millionaires, I dare say.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: JayMac on June 15, 2019, 00:19:02
What goes in Shire JC stays in Shire JC.

I used to go in Shire JC. I managed to escape.

Oh, and I'd have to disagree about The George in Shire, unless it's improved immeasurably in recent months. Last time I was in there you could breaststroke in the Gents. That's if you'd managed to unstick your feet from the carpet in front of the bar.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 15, 2019, 10:30:31
Last time I was in there you could breaststroke in the Gents. 

Ooh er...  ;)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 15, 2019, 11:25:40
As mentioned elsewhere on this forum (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=231.msg267122#msg267122), on Friday WECA was set to authorise funding for the next phase of development of a number of public transport improvements. If you found the Bristol Post article a bit hard to read, then this one from Bristol 247 (https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/wecas-multi-million-pound-transport-plans-for-bristol-region/) contains largely similar information, without the clickbait and other irritating entrained clutter that is the hallmark of the Post these days. Actually the content is so similar, you could almost believe that both organs had simply quoted a press release...

Surprisingly, as far as I can see nothing has been made public about this meeting or its outcome on the WECA website, and Tim Bowles didn't mention it directly at the Community Rail Conference yesterday...



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 15, 2019, 13:37:36
If I've read this correctly, the whole £350,000,000 funding envelope was approved as were all the business case allocations:

https://tinyurl.com/y6pqama6



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: ellendune on June 15, 2019, 16:04:16
If I've read this correctly, the whole £350,000,000 funding envelope was approved as were all the business case allocations:
https://tinyurl.com/y6pqama6

Yes, but from a rail point of view that only included:

Quote
8.To approve the Outline Business Case for Bristol Temple Meads Eastern Entrance and award of £2.5m of funding through the Investment Fund as set out in the Feasibility and Development Funding Application.

Quote
11.To approve the Outline Business Case for MetroWest Phase 2 and award of £3.519m to develop the Full Business Case noting the need to enhance the Benefit to Cost Ratio to at least 2 by Full Business Case stage.

These are both only outline so they still need a full business case before any full approval. 

From a wider public transport point of view it did include:

Quote
6.To approve the Full Business Case for the Cribbs Patchway MetroBus Extension and award £21.9m of Investment Fund subject to supply of a detailed elemental cost breakdown for the highway works and securing all necessary land.

Which is at least a step closer. 


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 15, 2019, 17:39:47
...well, and:

Quote
12. To approve a further £900,000 to develop a Full Business Case for Charfield Station.

As for:

Quote
11. To approve the Outline Business Case for MetroWest Phase 2 and award of £3.519m to develop the Full Business Case noting the need to enhance the Benefit to Cost Ratio to at least 2 by Full Business Case stage.

...I'm not exactly sure what 'enhance the Benefit to Cost Ratio' means in this context, but note that MetroWest 2 is the Henbury line (Henbury, North Filton and Ashley Down stations), and half-hourly to Yate. This is a Big Thing, and funding a full business case certainly constitutes progress towards achieving it - even if it is all frustratingly slow and bureaucratic for those of us who have had no doubt it needs doing for decades.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 16, 2019, 06:57:21
Quote
12. To approve a further £900,000 to develop a Full Business Case for Charfield Station.


I thought all this had been done in the days of Avon CC and Northavon DC and copies nailed into their coffins for burial. £900,000 is a f*****g awful lot of dosh to exhume a coffin, open it, extract the report and re-type it.

I was at the Friday meeting of WECA and as usual it was once again just a talking shop or in Fridays case a mumble shop as the PA was useless and the WECA Mayors left hand lady had to keep leaning forward and pressing his pa button to connect his mic to the system.

What made my blood boil too was that out of the 4 or 5 WECA meetings I have attended an individual that was down on the Attendance List as REQUIRED once again sent apologies.

What I would like to know is, is that individual being paid an allowance or retainer just to e-mail or whatever, apologies in advance of meetings, is that value for money ?

WECA seem to be dolling out £ millions for this project or other but can't or rather don't want to spend a few pennies resolving some to be easily solved 'snags' with Metrobust although they could be bracing themselves for an as yet unknown bill to fix what might be, from my observations, a developing major problem with the Metrobust Infrastructure in the Stoke Park/Stoke Lane area more of which I'll post on the Metrobust thread itself.







Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: ellendune on June 16, 2019, 08:08:45
Quote
12. To approve a further £900,000 to develop a Full Business Case for Charfield Station.
I thought all this had been done in the days of Avon CC and Northavon DC and copies nailed into their coffins for burial. £900,000 is a f*****g awful lot of dosh to exhume a coffin, open it, extract the report and re-type it.

A Business case from 20 years ago is hardly going to cut the mustard.  There have been major changes, if not in Charfield itself, in the places where people work. So an origin destination survey that is 20 years old is completely out of date.  Costs will also need to be updated. 


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 16, 2019, 09:46:42
For fear of causing martyjon to burst a blood vessel, that £900,000 is on top of £300,000 already allocated for initial development work. It does seem like a lot, compared with Portway Parkway (which will be £2.23 million for the complete build, according to Wikipedia).

Applying the Squirrel Formula, a £1.2 million business case implies at least a £12 million scheme. For a two-platform, fully-accessible station with (presumably) a car park and (presumably) safe access onto the B4058, that could be about right... However despite spending some time scratting around looking for more details, I can't confirm what's in it.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 17, 2019, 11:21:14
As mentioned elsewhere on this forum (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=231.msg267122#msg267122), on Friday WECA was set to authorise funding for the next phase of development of a number of public transport improvements. If you found the Bristol Post article a bit hard to read, then this one from Bristol 247 (https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/wecas-multi-million-pound-transport-plans-for-bristol-region/) contains largely similar information, without the clickbait and other irritating entrained clutter that is the hallmark of the Post these days. Actually the content is so similar, you could almost believe that both organs had simply quoted a press release...

Surprisingly, as far as I can see nothing has been made public about this meeting or its outcome on the WECA website, and Tim Bowles didn't mention it directly at the Community Rail Conference yesterday...

Both contain the same mention of Portbury, followed later by Portway. Does WECA's press office know the difference?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 18, 2019, 06:55:13
WECA seem to be dolling out £ millions for this project or other but can't or rather don't want to spend a few pennies resolving some to be easily solved 'snags' with Metrobust although they could be bracing themselves for an as yet unknown bill to fix what might be, from my observations, a developing major problem with the Metrobust Infrastructure in the Stoke Park/Stoke Lane area more of which I'll post on the Metrobust thread itself.


Well here is my report of my observations.

To begin with a preamble.

When the Metrobus Infrastructure was constructed the promoting body decreed that to build the Stoke Park/Stoke Lane/Begbrook section with its Bus Lane it would close Stoke Lane to all traffic. Uproar ensued from road users. Alright, we'll allow single line working but this was in the opposite direction to what was the shorter morning peak. This closure was to facilitate the removal of a large volume of a hillside, construct a reinforced concrete wall up to 5 metres high and the Bus Lane with its lone Bus Priority Traffic Signal. In addition a concrete gully was built which has quite a steep fall and provides a very nice waterfall in torrential rain. There is also a man made earth gully which is interspersed with 'cute little concrete dams', about 5 or 6 in total. The water from both these gullies seem to disappear into manholes which are probably in turn connected to the M32 as built drainage system.

Preamble over.

About a month ago I noticed a white van parked on the grass next to the bus lane, a trailer and a mini digger at work scooping out the earth gully and reprofiling the banks. A few days later I noticed white vans in the sloping field in the quartile between the M32 and the Stoke Lane M32 overbridge at the base of the plateau on top of which sits the Mustard Mansion. After another downpour the mini digger returned together with a fleet of white vans and I observed what could be land slippage. I also noted that the grass on the Bus Exit Road which had shot away in this warmer summer weather and was thigh high had been flattened and there was a brownish discolouration of the tarmac here on the Bus Exit Road which had not extended onto the main M32 carriageway itself. To cut the cackle a later travel through this area on the m3 saw the Stoke Lane Bus Lane coned off, the Bus Priority Traffic Light switched off, a set of temporary traffic lights set up to control single file traffic over the Stoke Lane M32 overbridge and partway up the incline of Stoke Lane at this point. Also of note is the appearance of what looks liked a packaged unit in a white painted container the size of which I have seen on lorries emblazoned with the logo 'POWER ELECTRICS'.

I am travelling in that direction later this morning and I'll post an observation update later.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 20, 2019, 10:16:31
Meanwhile, some progress to report on Ashley Down station - as Bmblbzzz points out in this post: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=11558.msg267538#msg267538 - and a press release from WECA:

Quote
Multi-million pound investment for rail across the West of England gets the green light

Better connections and more frequent rail services are coming down the tracks after the West of England Combined Authority (WECA) approved a further £3.5m investment in the MetroWest project.

The funding was approved by WECA on 14 June to support the next stage in the project, which aims to deliver additional infrastructure and train operations by the end of 2021 to provide:

A half hourly service for Yate local station on the Bristol Parkway to Gloucester line, through the provision of an additional service between Bristol Parkway and Yate
An hourly service for a reopened Henbury Line with new stations at Henbury and North Filton. A new station will also be constructed at Ashley Down, on the existing Filton Bank (between Filton Abbey Wood and Stapleton Road).
The WECA Committee has also agreed to take forward ambitions for a brand-new rail station serving Charfield and the surrounding towns and villages, with a further investment of £900,000 to develop the full business case.

West of England Mayor, Tim Bowles, said: “Rail is a key part of my ambition to improve public transport in the region, giving people more sustainable ways to travel.

“This includes improving the Severn Beach line to provide direct services to Bath and Westbury, re-opening Henbury station and more frequent services to Yate. We also have plans to open new train stations in Portishead, Henbury, Portway and Charfield.

“Improved and more frequent rail services will give people better access to jobs, link new homes and communities with employment areas and encourage more people to use public transport. This is just part of the picture. Our long-term Investment Strategy proposes £350m for transport over the next 20 years.”

The West of England Joint committee has also confirmed a £500,000 allocation to the MetroWest scheme, and in April the Transport Secretary committed an extra £31.9m to complete the funding needed to reopen the railway to Portishead and Pill with two new stations. The Severn Beach line extension to Bath and Westbury is also on track for 2021.

[...article continues (https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/multi-million-pound-investment-rail-across-west-england-gets-green-light/)]
Source: WECA


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 20, 2019, 12:37:47
Curious quote there from WoE mayor Tim Bowles "We also have plans to open new train stations in Portishead, Henbury, Portway and Charfield".
I'm referring there to Portway where my impression has been that it is now just about at the mechanical digger and orange high viz jacket stage but maybe no one has told him.




Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 21, 2019, 07:48:45
Talking to Metrobus drivers there was an accident where a vehicle smashed through a ranch style type fencing on the UWE bound side of Stoke Lane. The vehicle plunged into the field and sort of bulldozed / spewed a volume of earth which looked to all and intense and purposes like a landslip with soil scattered all over the bus exit lane. The temporary traffic lights and the coning off of the Bus Lane was to facilitate the replacement of, 'a £1000 wooden fence with a £100,000 stretch of steel crash barrier probably claimed off the luckless motorists insurance', a Metrobus drivers words, not mine.

However this does not explain the presence of the mini digger on two occasions reprofiling the earth gully and the appearance of the white containerized equipment package, I shall keep my eyes alert.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on June 21, 2019, 13:43:55
Although is article on the Bristol Live site begins with a local MP's campaigning to have a new station at Lockleaze the subject moves on to renewed demands for a Henbury Loop rather than a spur. It may not be a totally dead parrot yet.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/should-new-railway-station-lockleaze-3002323


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 21, 2019, 15:19:41
Although is article on the Bristol Live site begins with a local MP's campaigning to have a new station at Lockleaze the subject moves on to renewed demands for a Henbury Loop rather than a spur. It may not be a totally dead parrot yet.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/should-new-railway-station-lockleaze-3002323


A new station at Lockleaze, laffable. This pohwser ought to have done his homework but like me seems to suffer similarly to me of the opening of mouth before the brains engaged syndrome.

A new station could be provided for Lockleaze at the site of the former Horfield station but the site is so close to Filton Abbey Wood that the driver wouldn't even get a Turbo up to speed to move out of first gear before having to commence braking for the other station.

To provide a station at Constable Road would need either the relief lines slewing west or the main lines slewing east to provide adequate room to accomodate a down relief platform between the up main and down relief lines at a cost of millions, where was he at the planning stage of Filtons 4 tracking, in year 10 ?.



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on July 04, 2019, 06:15:28
From Bristol Live (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/locals-favour-plans-ashley-down-3041287)

Quote
Residents are concerned plans for a new train station in Bristol will increase anti-social parking on their streets.

Ashley Down is one of three new stations to be built as part of the MetroWest Phase Two project which will see a passenger service return to the Henbury line for the first time in decades.

But residents in Ashley Down Hill - which is known for heavy congestion and idling street parking - are worried about the number of commuters the new services will bring into the area and fear current parking issues will worsen.

Chris Ge is in favour of the new railway plans but he said: "The roads around will need a residents parking scheme in place, otherwise it will just turn into another commuter park and ride."

Jacquelyn Haskins agrees more public transport is needed in Bristol but "We do need residents' parking scheme (RPS) as well as a new station."


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 04, 2019, 09:27:09
From Bristol Live (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/locals-favour-plans-ashley-down-3041287)

Quote
Residents are concerned plans for a new train station in Bristol will increase anti-social parking on their streets.

Ashley Down is one of three new stations to be built as part of the MetroWest Phase Two project which will see a passenger service return to the Henbury line for the first time in decades.

But residents in Ashley Down Hill - which is known for heavy congestion and idling street parking - are worried about the number of commuters the new services will bring into the area and fear current parking issues will worsen.

Chris Ge is in favour of the new railway plans but he said: "The roads around will need a residents parking scheme in place, otherwise it will just turn into another commuter park and ride."

Jacquelyn Haskins agrees more public transport is needed in Bristol but "We do need residents' parking scheme (RPS) as well as a new station."

The key thing here is that the people quoted are not objecting to the station - they just want an RPS.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on July 04, 2019, 09:46:27
The key thing here is that the people quoted are not objecting to the station - they just want an RPS.

Totally agreed.  They're asking for joined up thinking!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 04, 2019, 15:41:56
They're unlikely to get far with that, as Mayor Rees is opposed to them.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 04, 2019, 16:47:14
They're unlikely to get far with that, as Mayor Rees is opposed to them.

Well... the next Mayoral election is in 2020. At least one major party is promising to abolish the role if they win. Meanwhile, Ashley Down Station is part of MetroWest 2, which may open in 2021 but us old hands might want to sprinkle condiments on that date. Bottom line: Rees will most likely have moved on to pastures new by the time the station reaches GRIP 4/5.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 04, 2019, 19:03:04
"Vote for me as mayor and I'll abolish the mayorship." It could be a winning slogan!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on July 04, 2019, 19:23:59
"Vote for me as mayor and I'll abolish the mayorship." It could be a winning slogan!

It worked in May, didn't it?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on July 12, 2019, 23:21:16

I used to go in Shire JC. I managed to escape.

#MeToo.

Quote
Oh, and I'd have to disagree about The George in Shire, unless it's improved immeasurably in recent months. Last time I was in there you could breaststroke in the Gents. That's if you'd managed to unstick your feet from the carpet in front of the bar.

Casting my mind back, and having private facilities across the road, I think I only visited the Gents in the George once, and I kept to the shallow end.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on February 20, 2020, 00:26:09
There's a short but somewhat ambiguous article in Bristol Live about some recent movement as regards a new station at Ashley Down with 3.5m approved by WECA to develop a full business case for "the project" last week.
The article is unclear if this refers to the station or the wider Metrowest project and begins with the misleading opening sentence "work is already underway".
Here's the link if you want to try and make sense of it:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/more-details-revealed-new-ashley-2997303?__twitter_impression=true&int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: froome on February 20, 2020, 09:26:44
There's a short but somewhat ambiguous article in Bristol Live about some recent movement as regards a new station at Ashley Down with 3.5m approved by WECA to develop a full business case for "the project" last week.
The article is unclear if this refers to the station or the wider Metrowest project and begins with the misleading opening sentence "work is already underway".
Here's the link if you want to try and make sense of it:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/more-details-revealed-new-ashley-2997303?__twitter_impression=true&int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic

Yes, some slightly confusing statements here. The article particularly singles out the need for improved access for pedestrians from Station Road and Lane, and later refers to the need to reduce conflicts between users of Concorde Way and the proposed station. Concorde Way is the pedestrian and cycle access running past the old station, and runs alongside (or possibly along) the old station platform. Access between the two could hardly be simpler unless the proposed station is not on the site of the old station, which would be odd. There is an issue about potential conflict of users, but I would have thought that ought to be resolvable.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on February 20, 2020, 09:46:08
Work on Ashley Down station has certainly been underway for some time.  I have seen a copy of the GRIP3 Signalling Plan for it, dated mid-2018 ::)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 20, 2020, 09:47:10
There's a short but somewhat ambiguous article in Bristol Live about some recent movement as regards a new station at Ashley Down with 3.5m approved by WECA to develop a full business case for "the project" last week.
The article is unclear if this refers to the station or the wider Metrowest project and begins with the misleading opening sentence "work is already underway".
Here's the link if you want to try and make sense of it:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/more-details-revealed-new-ashley-2997303?__twitter_impression=true&int_source=taboola&int_medium=display&int_campaign=organic

Yes, some slightly confusing statements here. The article particularly singles out the need for improved access for pedestrians from Station Road and Lane, and later refers to the need to reduce conflicts between users of Concorde Way and the proposed station. Concorde Way is the pedestrian and cycle access running past the old station, and runs alongside (or possibly along) the old station platform. Access between the two could hardly be simpler unless the proposed station is not on the site of the old station, which would be odd. There is an issue about potential conflict of users, but I would have thought that ought to be resolvable.

The article johnneyw refers to is dated 20 Jun 2019.

Concorde Way runs behind the old station, not along the platform; it even deviates to go around the site of the station buildings. It was created by upgrading an existing footpath which, I suspect, was originally put in to serve the old station. There's already a pretty good fence in place between the platform and the path, so there really shouldn't be any major problem as far as I can see.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: johnneyw on February 20, 2020, 12:38:49
Ah yes, it's not exactly "hot off the press" stuff (mental note to myself to check article date more often) and without doubt, as SandT rightly points out, quality work has been underway for some time. I'm still a bit unsure though what this 3.5 million quid covers.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on February 20, 2020, 13:50:20
One would think that £3.5 million would suffice for a station with platforms on two tracks, passive provision for two more in the future, signalling as mentioned by S&T, and a lick of paint in the underpass. I suspect, though, that the figure relates to producing a business case for the whole MetroWest Rail part 2, and will only be a small part of said business case.

Nice illustrative picture of a non-local train somewhere north.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 24, 2020, 14:52:33
Quote
The extension of MetroWest rail services to Gloucester and Westbury is one step closer

More frequent trains to Gloucester, Yate and Westbury are a step closer as a change of scope to the MetroWest rail project was agreed at the West of England Combined Authority committee meeting on Friday 19 June.

Phase one, of the MetroWest project which is currently under way, will see the reopening of the Portishead line to passenger trains and improved services on the Severn Beach and Bath to Bristol lines. Phase two would reopen the Henbury Line to an hourly spur service, as well as providing increased, half-hourly trains to Yate.

Expanding MetroWest 30 miles beyond Yate to Gloucester in the north, and 15 miles from Bath to Westbury in the east is now within the scope of the MetroWest project after being welcomed by the West of England Combined Authority Committee.

The proposal to extend the service to Gloucester in place of the Yate turnback has been developed with the train operators and Network Rail. Gloucester is considered a better terminating point for the services because less significant infrastructure is likely to be required whilst extending the communities within reach of the MetroWest services.

The Westbury extension is expected to provide a better mix of local and regional train services, addressing overcrowding issues and making better use of trains and train crews.

Further work is now required for both extensions to confirm the cost and timescales. Once these have been confirmed the proposals to extend the lines would then formally become part of the MetroWest project.

West of England Mayor, Tim Bowles said: “The new MetroWest rail network is going to get our region and its economy moving. It will help create jobs, connect our communities and create more than 1million new journeys on our railway network each year. It will also help us cut carbon emissions, ease congestion and improve our region’s air quality so I’m very pleased that by extending services to Gloucester and Westbury we will give even more residents see those benefits that I know they have been calling for.”

Mike Gallop, Western route director for Network Rail, said: “This is a very welcome step towards delivering enhanced rail services for passengers in and around Bristol. Our work with West of England Combined Authority and local authorities to deliver MetroWest will help to transform the city’s suburban rail network. It will bring new communities together by offering a choice of rail, rather than road, and it will help to support growth through the regeneration of the former Filton Aerodrome site. It’s good news for passengers and for the economy too.”

Once completed, MetroWest will connect an additional 80,000 residents directly to the national rail network and includes:

  • Half hourly services on the Severn Beach line calling at a new station at Portway
  • Half hourly services from Bristol Temple Meads to Bath and Westbury
  • Hourly services between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads with new stations at Pill and Portishead.
  • Hourly services from Bristol Temple Meads to Henbury, calling at new stations at Ashley Down, Henbury and North Filton as well as all existing stations in between
  • Half hourly services between Bristol Temple Meads, Yate and Gloucester.

https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Map-metrowest.jpg mirrored at:
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/Map-metrowest.jpg)


Source: WECA (https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/the-extension-of-metrowest-rail-services-to-gloucester-and-westbury-is-one-step-closer/)

Can this be done without reopening Platform 4 at Westbury?

Edit - mirrored image to give it a permanent URL



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 24, 2020, 15:41:20
Can this be done without reopening Platform 4 at Westbury?

It can probably be done if the train extends beyond Westbury to Frome as that makes better use of the platforms at Westbury, but I would not  like to be certain after the fiasco at Bristol Parkway trying to get local trains in and out.

Terminate and lay over in the platform at a three platform Westbury?  - I have my doubts.   But then ... 3 local trains an hour into Westbury from the top right corner - two from Bristol and one from Swindon, and three local trains out - one all stations via Salisbury, one all stations to or via Yeovil Pen Mill, and one to Frome with a Radstock aspiration and you've no longer got anything platform blocking.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 24, 2020, 17:02:19
Quote
Hourly services between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads with new stations at Pill and Portishead

Interesting map, showing Portishead trains through Bedminster, Parson Street, Nailsea and Backwell on their way to Pill and Portishead, and all trains to the South West passing through Weston Milton and Weston-super-mare.  I would "give" them the latter if the map showed purely regional trains, but it doesn't - it included long distance expresses with arrowed off routes to London from both Bath Spa and Bristol Parkway.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 24, 2020, 17:52:10
Well, I hope they have done a good study into the new Bristol East Junction layout as thats going to be a real 'pinch point'.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 24, 2020, 21:23:17
Extending the scheme to Gloucester is a nice ambition but I wonder if it's not overreaching. Moving the goalposts so they can extend the pitch without having enough grass or paint for the lines.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Celestial on June 25, 2020, 17:26:38
Extending the scheme to Gloucester is a nice ambition but I wonder if it's not overreaching. Moving the goalposts so they can extend the pitch without having enough grass or paint for the lines.
Isn't this what we've heard is in the latest Direct Award anyway - a half hourly service to Gloucester?  So achieves an ambition with the added benefit of not having to put in the turnback at Yate, which would probably take 5 years and cost a crazy amount of money given how things seem to work these days.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 25, 2020, 23:40:07
Quote
Hourly services between Portishead and Bristol Temple Meads with new stations at Pill and Portishead

Interesting map, showing Portishead trains through Bedminster, Parson Street, Nailsea and Backwell on their way to Pill and Portishead, and all trains to the South West passing through Weston Milton and Weston-super-mare.  I would "give" them the latter if the map showed purely regional trains, but it doesn't - it included long distance expresses with arrowed off routes to London from both Bath Spa and Bristol Parkway.

Mmm.

We've amended the version on the FoSBR website (https://fosbr.org.uk/metrowest-plans-extended-to-gloucester-and-westbury/), and asked WECA if they'd like to correct the original...

Edit: Quote grahame to clarify what I was responding to..!


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 26, 2020, 10:42:52
Mmm.

We've amended the version on the FoSBR website (https://fosbr.org.uk/metrowest-plans-extended-to-gloucester-and-westbury/), and asked WECA if they'd like to correct the original...

Not quite, still shows all services to SW through Weston, needs Weston Loop added.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on June 26, 2020, 11:22:55
I think that's fair enough actually - it's a map of MetroWest services. Maps are always a compromise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwprznh3d-o


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 26, 2020, 12:04:40
I think that's fair enough actually - it's a map of MetroWest services. Maps are always a compromise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwprznh3d-o

Interesting link, though not quite what I expected.

But ... more a "diagram" than a map, may I venture? "Maps represent a scale model of the world" says a page I looked up help me clarify this.   And I will "give" you that on a scale map a railway line (for that's what we're talking about) needs to be drawn far wider than it usually is, otherwise the reader will be looking for a marking that's thinner than a hair!





Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 26, 2020, 13:16:38
It's not just of Metrowest services though. It also includes arrows to London, South Wales and South West, so giving the misleading impression that a Cross Country service to Plymouth will pass through Weston-super-Mare. I don't think it needs to show anything beyond WsM, just show a divergence at Worle with "South West" on the other line.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 26, 2020, 14:21:23
It's not just of Metrowest services though. It also includes arrows to London, South Wales and South West, so giving the misleading impression that a Cross Country service to Plymouth will pass through Weston-super-Mare. I don't think it needs to show anything beyond WsM, just show a divergence at Worle with "South West" on the other line.

One passes through at 11:33 on its way from Manchester to Paignton though ... and at 15:33 on its way back from Exeter St David's to Manchester (from timetable / not running at present).

As ever - "what does the map show"?    As it stands, it's unlikely to mislead whereas it could have mislead passengers hoping to change at Nailsea on their way from Weston to Portishead, now that there's no direct line between the two.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 26, 2020, 16:24:21
It's not just of Metrowest services though. It also includes arrows to London, South Wales and South West, so giving the misleading impression that a Cross Country service to Plymouth will pass through Weston-super-Mare. I don't think it needs to show anything beyond WsM, just show a divergence at Worle with "South West" on the other line.

One passes through at 11:33 on its way from Manchester to Paignton though ... and at 15:33 on its way back from Exeter St David's to Manchester (from timetable / not running at present).

As ever - "what does the map show"?    As it stands, it's unlikely to mislead whereas it could have mislead passengers hoping to change at Nailsea on their way from Weston to Portishead, now that there's no direct line between the two.

Well if its as you say, Metrowest routes why put arrows with the directions farther afield on the map in the first place ?

By the way, why all the fuss about the provision of a turn back at Yate, it exists anyway, in both directions at that.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyN on June 26, 2020, 17:09:34
One Issue with the current turnback arrangments may be that they are ok if the train consists of one unit as the driver can walk through.
However if the train is formed of say 2 class 165 or 166 units provision needs to be made for a walking route to change ends.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 26, 2020, 19:45:08

It can probably be done if the train extends beyond Westbury to Frome as that makes better use of the platforms at Westbury, but I would not  like to be certain after the fiasco at Bristol Parkway trying to get local trains in and out.

Terminate and lay over in the platform at a three platform Westbury?  - I have my doubts.   But then ... 3 local trains an hour into Westbury from the top right corner - two from Bristol and one from Swindon, and three local trains out - one all stations via Salisbury, one all stations to or via Yeovil Pen Mill, and one to Frome with a Radstock aspiration and you've no longer got anything platform blocking.

So - do we reckon that something will get started one day ever, or will MetroWest just keep getting added to on paper, with new maps, until it reaches Scunthorpe and the Isle of Wight?


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 26, 2020, 20:48:09
One Issue with the current turnback arrangments may be that they are ok if the train consists of one unit as the driver can walk through.
However if the train is formed of say 2 class 165 or 166 units provision needs to be made for a walking route to change ends.

Walking routes exist at Yate, the platforms, terminate, change ends and return or back into the siding with the conductor/guard/train manager riding shotgun in the leading reversing cab, easy.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: MVR S&T on June 26, 2020, 23:06:40
As far as I know, as I asked an SWR driver on this point, the driver must always be in the leading cab for all movements, there may be a union requirment too, that the guard etc, would have to be trained and paid a drivers wage for that day, when carying out a drives role.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 27, 2020, 06:28:12
So - do we reckon that something will get started one day ever, or will MetroWest just keep getting added to on paper, with new maps, until it reaches Scunthorpe and the Isle of Wight?

The map may cut short at the end of the logical travel-to-work area, but the local services might run on to reach as far as Great Malvern, Brighton and Penzance.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 27, 2020, 09:37:51
As far as I know, as I asked an SWR driver on this point, the driver must always be in the leading cab for all movements, there may be a union requirment too, that the guard etc, would have to be trained and paid a drivers wage for that day, when carying out a drives role.

But what are the chances of a more than one unit working a Yate terminating service anyway, slight.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 28, 2020, 11:38:37
With the PM's announcement that he is to speed up infrastructure projects, will this apply to the Portishead line, the Henbury Spur/Loop, the OHL via Bath to Bristol, Bristol East Junction remodelling to name just a few, I can't see it myself as our local politicians are such ditherer. I have heard it said of the combined authority, the WRECA authority following the publishing of the latest timetables for bus services leaving still no service from Marshfield to Bristol, the Bath - Bristol via Keynsham restricted to early morning/evening services only, no Bristol - Bath service via Bitton/Kelston. Not to be outdone, the Metro Mayor has gained the nickname 'Butcher Bowles'.

Whilst I am having a rant, the m3 service seems to have been given the chop if only temporarily with the m3x running throughout the hours of operation, at 10 minute intervals in peak hours and 30 minute intervals off peak. This gives rise to the possibility of passengers wanting UWE travelling from Emersons Green/Lyde Green/Emerald Park/Willy Wicket being dumped at the Hambrook stop with their connecting service 19 being full under covid19 measures having travelled from Bath via Bitton, Oldland, Warmley, Kingswood, Soundwell, Downend and Bromley Heath and only operates on a 30 minute schedule.

That's enough ranting from me for now.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on June 28, 2020, 19:14:08
Further to my previous post the TT's for the T1/T2/Y1/Y2 are a nightmare. Prior to lockdown the T1/Y1 services operated from start of service to 1900 ish with the T2/Y2 covering journeys between Bristol and Thornbury/Yate and Sodbury which operate via the A38/A432. The latest TT's agreed by WRECA show the T2/Y2 ceasing at 1900 meaning pax relying on these services to travel home after an evening shift is scuppered and will have to travel into Central Bristol to get a service out to their homes in Thornbury/Yate areas adding probably an hour to their homeward journey.

Rant part 2 over.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Noggin on June 28, 2020, 21:41:39
With the PM's announcement that he is to speed up infrastructure projects, will this apply to the Portishead line, the Henbury Spur/Loop, the OHL via Bath to Bristol, Bristol East Junction remodelling to name just a few, I can't see it myself as our local politicians are such ditherer. I have heard it said of the combined authority, the WRECA authority following the publishing of the latest timetables for bus services leaving still no service from Marshfield to Bristol, the Bath - Bristol via Keynsham restricted to early morning/evening services only, no Bristol - Bath service via Bitton/Kelston. Not to be outdone, the Metro Mayor has gained the nickname 'Butcher Bowles'.

{snip}

That's enough ranting from me for now.

Supposedly NR have been told by the Government to resume the development work that was paused on the MML. It's currently at GRIP 3, and talks are in early stages, but it's not impossible that Nottingham and Derby could have electric services by the next election, though they'll have new 80x Hitachi trains from 2022 anyway. I would guess the desire is to be seen to be doing something whilst HS2 gets built and the local East and West-Midlands schemes go through the GRIP process.

On that basis, it might not be inconceivable that the Government would tell NR to throw some cash at wiring Bristol once the East Junction work is complete, plus perhaps Oxford and Reading to Basingstoke before the next election to be seen to be doing something. In fact, if you were really lucky they might be happy to be seen to be spending money on grid connections, which are often the expensive bit that drags the BCR of electrification projects down.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 29, 2020, 04:55:11

Anyway, the funding has been confirmed, according to the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40755739):

Quote
Five new rail stations to 'boost' regional economies
28 July 2017

The Department For Transport will invest more than £16m in the new stations
Five new rail stations should be completed by March 2020 after funding was confirmed, officials have said.
The Department For Transport (DFT) said it will invest more than £16m in four stations in England and one in Wales.
The stations will be at Horden in County Durham, Warrington West in Cheshire, Reading Green Park, Portway Parkway in Bristol and Bow Street in Ceredigion.

Horden opens today - 3 months late. How are the others doing?

From RailNews (https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2020/06/29-new-station-opens-in-county.html)
Quote
TRAINS are calling today at Horden station on the Durham Coast for the first time since May 1964.

The station is not far from the post-war new town of Peterlee and will serve a catchment area with a population of 70,000. It has an hourly train service from today in each direction which calls at all stations between Newcastle and Middlesbrough.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: rogerw on June 29, 2020, 09:47:26
Warrington West is open


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 29, 2020, 10:03:20
Portway Parkway is partway to halfway.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: grahame on June 29, 2020, 10:07:03
From Cambrian News (http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/article.cfm?id=133005&headline=Work%20on%20new%20Bow%20Street%20rail%20station%20set%20to%20resume&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2020) in April [2020]

Quote
Work is set to restart on the new Bow Street railway station.

Construction work on the £8 million project was suspended when the coronavirus crisis hit, but Transport for Wales has announced that work will restart on the site from Monday, 4 May.

Workers will concentrate on earthworks on site and roadworks nearby, with the introduction of a new slipway on the opposite side of the road.

Local councillor Paul Hinge welcomed the news, saying: “It is pleasing to hear that they are looking at how they can safely carry out the work and have decided to resume on Monday, 4 May.

“It is thought that the interchange site will officially open in November but the railway station could be operational before then.”



Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 29, 2020, 10:18:30
Portway Parkway is partway to halfway.

 ;D

This is the station that Councillor Tim Kent proudly announced, back in 2011, would be open by 2013. Last I saw, it was due to open in summer of 2021. Last year, the minutes of a BCC meeting recorded that if it wasn't open by June 2020, the central funding would be lost.If that hasn't been changed, WRECA (like it, martyjon) is in for a £2.4 million hit on the MetroWest Rail budget.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: chuffed on June 29, 2020, 10:54:39
Are the members of the WRECA comittee called Phew Sue, Barney, McRue, Herbert, Dribble and Scrubb ,with apologies to the Trumpton Firemen !


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on June 29, 2020, 14:11:30
Are the members of the WRECA comittee called Phew Sue, Barney, McRue, Herbert, Dribble and Scrubb ,with apologies to the Trumpton Firemen !

I don't know, but it would make sense, possibly even more if we find they are D. P. Gumby, R. J. Gumby, L. R. Gumby....


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: bradshaw on July 22, 2020, 18:41:41
August Modern Railways has an article on MetroWest (p71), as part of a feature on GWR(p59-81) Philip Sherratt provides an update on the plans.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 07, 2020, 16:48:36
Due process continues to creak and groan onward. Jack Lopresti has just tweeted (https://twitter.com/JackLopresti/status/1291731219168866315) about his meeting with mayor Bowles at Severn Beach station (thinks: wonder how they got there?) to discuss 'his ongoing work to improve our suburban rail network and the plans for the Metro West Project'.

Delving into the detail, it appears that the latest piece of progress is nothing less exciting than the news that the Planning Inspectorate have sent out 'Rule 17' questionnaires (https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=mN94WIhvq0iTIpmM5VcIjS9IDJ5KJ2BFiYALWSuJHWdUNVg1M09WTFo3UjZGNklZQlhaN0ZPWEc5US4u) to check if any interested parties are running Windows 98, or don't have an email address. This is to allow the process to grind on using Zoom or somesuch.

Well worth a photo op at Severn Beach, I'd say.

I really ought to stop using the word 'glacial' in this context. These days, glaciers are getting fairly fleet of foot.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: stuving on August 07, 2020, 16:57:19
I really ought to stop using the word 'glacial' in this context. These days, glaciers are getting fairly fleet of foot.

Or you could reserve it for the kind of project of which the end recedes continuously, until it trickles away and eventually nothing is left.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on August 11, 2020, 12:50:21
I thought this project was virtually 'shovel ready', but no not quite. I personally became involved in this project in 1982 when I prepared a briefing paper for a friend who had been elected to Avon in the 1981 election and was on the Highways and Transport Committee of said Council. How many back to square ones have been achieved in the intervening 38 years I have lost count of.

One day when time permits I will try and recall the detail of my late friends briefing paper that I prepared for him and post on this forum.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: martyjon on August 11, 2020, 12:58:45
My previous post applies to the Portishead reopening and not the Metrowest project itself which was conceived and has done nothing but strangle the locals in their efforts to reopen the Portishead line.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 13, 2020, 12:49:48
Quote
‘Inevitable’ delays push MetroWest opening date back to 2024

A delay to the MetroWest scheme will see its opening date pushed back to 2024.

The project, which will reconnect the railway line between Portishead, Pill and Ashton Junction in Bristol, has been pushed back as a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

[...]

Portishead Railway Group (PRG) previously advised that the service would be in operation in December 2023, but it has now confirmed the coronavirus pandemic has ‘unavoidably’ pushed its reopening into 2024.

PRG committee member for programme and infrastructure Dave Chillistone said: “There is a delay with the DCO examination process by approximately four months, and MetroWest is currently working out if this translates as a linear four-month delay to the project.

[...]

“The previous programme saw the service reopening in 2023, and even a one-month delay would push the project into 2024, so it’s not as dire as it seems.
Source: North Somerset Times (https://www.northsomersettimes.co.uk/news/metrowest-scheme-delay-pushes-opening-back-to-2024-1-6787852)


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on August 13, 2020, 13:50:28
Oh well. 2027 it is then...


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 13, 2020, 17:13:14
I expect to be travelling on a high-speed direct line from Montpelier to Montpelier (UK to Vermont) before I can get a train to Portishead.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: TonyK on August 13, 2020, 19:40:21
I expect to be travelling on a high-speed direct line from Montpelier to Montpelier (UK to Vermont) before I can get a train to Portishead.

I shall go to Montpellier instead, and not just because I can catch a TGV direct from Paris in 3½ hours.


Title: Re: Metrowest Status
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 13, 2020, 20:11:45
Might have trouble buying that triangular ticket on the Beach line! ;D



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