Great Western Coffee Shop

Does anyone know if this is the same for the other councils in the old 'Avon' area ? Looks like something else we have to thank the leader and deputy leader of north somerset parish council for.

A similar change in Wiltshire, designed (I understand) to save bus fare support money, had some effects that were rather the opposite.

1. Passengers on ENCTS passes no longer join the bus between 09:00 and 09:30 for the most part, reducing the commercial viability of the route by adding in an off peak section after morning commutes but before pensioner time, then adding a peak that the buses can't cope with just after 09:30

2. Passengers with ENCTS cards who need to start their journeys before 09:30 are only being tickets to the first scheduled stop after 09:30. When they get there, they are getting off and on again - sometimes at some pretty awkward places where the bus stops are not designed to cope with more than a couple of people.

Presumably North Somerset have spoken with other councils such as Wiltshire who have already made this change, an made the decision based on the lessons learned elsewhere?   Have you spoken with them to ask how their plan will avoid creating a false peak and dangerous unloads and reloads?

B&NES is still 9am and I haven't heard of any proposal to change that.

The differential timing between different authorities does make travel confusing in areas away from your home authority. How are you supposed to know when you can use your pass? (without searching the web, and it isn't always easy to find out there).

As an aside, I was up in Cumbria a few weeks ago and the bus service in the village I was staying in had been cut from about 6 or 7 services a day when I was last there (about a year ago) to 2 a day. The first of these was at 09.21 and the other one in the afternoon. I got on the morning service and showed my pass. The driver said it wasn't valid until 9.30 but then said everyone could stay on and then come and collect their ticket when he called them over, and duly stopped at 9.30 for this purpose. This was obviously what happened every day on this service. I wonder how much this happens elsewhere.

In Swindon it is 09:30 and unlike trains that is based on the time the bus actually arrives not what it says in the timetable.

I used to catch a bus into town around that time and you'd get people getting on at successive stops arguing their watch said 09:30 and their passes should be valid.  Of course it is the time on the ticket machine that counts and so the driver was having none of it - but it did cause delays as first people argued and then fumbled for their purses/wallets to pay.   So much so that one morning someone suggested it was all a conspiracy so as the bus got nearer to town it would be after 09:30 and those moaning would see their friends get on and be able to use their passes!

The validity nationally is for 09:30 to 23:00 on weekdays, and that is what the reimbursement rules are based on. TCAs have discretionary powers to offer more to their own residents in their own area. So there should be no confusion when you are away from your home patch.

If a TCA chooses to offer longer hours to all comers, they would presumably be acting ultra vires (but I'm not sure if that's an absolute no-no). That driver was I guess depriving his employer of a small fare for 10 minutes travel, rather than in any way cheating the ENCTS.

Bracknell forest borough council let any ENCTS holder travel under their more generous terms.

I also believe that there is no time restriction on LT buses

I am not sure on this one, but I think whoever issues the ones for the Liverpool area may let their residents have more generous terms wherever they are.

...no I was wrong on that, but I still think they issue at age 60 (for use in their local area only) instead of state pension age.

Maybe, but they don't let people know about that, not on the relevant web page (http://www.bracknell-forest.gov.uk/travelconcessionsscheme). (the above quote is in a rather long policy document.) These rules only started this month, having been finalised in March - so perhaps the news hasn't percolated through their web site. In any case that page isn't untrue - it just doesn't mention outsiders.

I wondered whether this was something to do with the ex-Berkshire unitaries being very small, so it's hard to go anywhere worthwhile without leaving the CTA area. Reading buses have a page (http://www.reading-buses.co.uk/articles/changes-to-concessionary-travel-2/) on how the rules of the neighbouring CTAs vary (and they don't have the new Bracknell rules either). Reading have just this year withdrawn their extensions, and now offer only statutory validity to anyone, as do West Berkshire. Wokingham offer a 9:00 start to all comers.

Windsor and Maidenhead (https://www3.rbwm.gov.uk/info/200214/public_transport/860/concessionary_fares/4) also offer their residents no time limits, and note that Bracknell offer Windsorites the same - but I can't see anything about what they offer to others. It's all very confused and confusing.

I have not yet managed to work out what justification these unitary CTAs have for their largesse. If it was reciprocal, it could makes sense because (1) their areas are too small to go anywhere much and (2) hardly any buses go further than the neighbours, so unreciprocated freebies are few. But the lack or reciprocal rules seems to argue against that.

Bracknell Forest is one of the few TCAs I know of that offer eligible residents subsidised Senior or Disabled Persons Railcards. Offered as an alternative to a bus pass.

Senior Railcard for £12 (usual price £30).

Disabled (renewal, not first one) for £5 (£20).

A friend of mine living in Bracknell meets eligibility criteria for a Disabled Persons Railcard but not a bus pass, so on renewal he pays just £5 a year for his Railcard. 

Yes it is quite ironic that it goes on to mention their passholders may be able to travel earlier in other areas, but is not explicit about visitors to their own patch!

This arrangement was certainly in place last year, so I would allege it has been longstanding. I wonder how many visiting passholders have not realised about the relaxation and have either paid the fare if travelling early or elected not to travel until later.


A friend of mine (not living in Bracknell though!) has similar circumstances (qualifying for the railcard and not the bus pass). This person does not have a visible disablility and, I wont elaborate, but a guard on a train pretty much came out with the "but you don't look disabled" line. My friend did not want to pursue this further and it's fair to say the majority of people understand that disabilities can cover a wide range of conditions, not all of which you can necessarily see.

...AFAIK disabled bus pass holders can travel at any time and usually with a companion (although I believe different rules may apply again for the companion depending on the area).

Some councils still have arrangements for discounted rail travel for their own issued passes; for example Leicester's includes half fare train travel on journeys from Leicester to Derby, Nottingham, Peterborough, Kettering or Nuneaton as well as within Leicestershire.
 

Happened to me once at the gate line of a London Terminal. I responded with, "You don't look like a doctor."

Seems as if there is a reprieve, North Somerset Parish inform me that there is no change to the 9am start, Perhaps they couldn't get their act together with the other Counties that Used to Be Avon in time. Mods...you may wish to delete this thread.

With thanks for your (very welcome news!) update, chuffed, I'm rather inclined to leave this topic here, for future reference, as it contains a lot of other related information.

I have, however, amended the topic heading in the interests of clarity.  CfN.  ;)