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Title: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on April 29, 2017, 16:36:19 A major failure has occured between Swindon and Didcot resulting in the loss of all signalling. Several trains trapped and some turning back at Swindon and Didcot. Unfortunately the available diversionary route via the B&H is closed due to engineering work...... >:( ::)
Must be quite serious as NR are quoting that specialist technicians won't be on site until 1830.... :P Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Zoe on April 29, 2017, 16:40:01 A major failure has occured between Swindon and Didcot resulting in the loss of all signalling. Several trains trapped and some turning back at Swindon and Didcot. Unfortunately the available diversionary route via the B&H is closed due to engineering work...... >:( ::) Also no replacement road transport available, current advice on the GWR website is not to travel. I can't remember the last time this happened for reasons other than weather but I expect that at this time of year a lot of coaches will be in use on a Saturday and so not available at short notice.Must be quite serious as NR are quoting that specialist technicians won't be on site until 1830.... :P Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Rob on the hill on April 29, 2017, 16:51:26 Currently 2 trains stranded between Didcot and Swindon, and 2 between Chippenham and Swindon.
http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/swindon Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: John R on April 29, 2017, 18:20:35 Having seen some trains which were caught in the area have reversed to Didcot and have arrived back there three hours after they left, I've a bit of a dumb question. Given the route in question is a relatively simple double track section (apart from a couple of loops). why could not the drivers be instructed to drive on sight until they get through the affected area? It's a nice straight line too, so 30mph should be comfortably possible. I'm not suggesting that trains should enter the affected area - just that those caught in-between Swindon and Didcot could be brought out somewhat quicker than appears to be the case.
Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: ChrisB on April 29, 2017, 18:36:25 Especially as they were allowed to reverse to DID under the same arrangements?!
Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Electric train on April 29, 2017, 19:07:45 Having seen some trains which were caught in the area have reversed to Didcot and have arrived back there three hours after they left, I've a bit of a dumb question. Given the route in question is a relatively simple double track section (apart from a couple of loops). why could not the drivers be instructed to drive on sight until they get through the affected area? It's a nice straight line too, so 30mph should be comfortably possible. I'm not suggesting that trains should enter the affected area - just that those caught in-between Swindon and Didcot could be brought out somewhat quicker than appears to be the case. Especially as they were allowed to reverse to DID under the same arrangements?! At Swindon several sets of points would need to be set to allow the trains into a platform, hand cranking then clipping and scotching is a high risk activity compared to reverse working in the wrong direction. There would be a senior NR manager and a senior TOC manager on a conference call with the senior engineer on duty / call the duty ops managers where decisions would be made and plans put in place with constant reviews, in this incident its likely NR would be the lead (Gold Command). It may there is a lack of common sense to an outsider, however there are set protocols, Rule Book limitations that will steer actions. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on April 29, 2017, 19:09:10 It can take a considerable amount of time to set up special working and it requires quite a few number of ground staff to implement. Its often easier to reverse trains back to the unaffected area but when you are held in the middle of a completely failed section that can still be very difficult.
Noted that NR are now stating that it won't be fixed until the end of the day. They didn't say which day though..... ::) :P Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: didcotdean on April 29, 2017, 20:48:33 Now fixed apparently although it will still be a long grim night for some.
Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: JayMac on April 29, 2017, 20:58:28 Network Rail incident timeline (in reverse):
Quote Momentary red outs between Uffington and Swindon. Telecoms Tech support Report: Fault has been passed back to Swindon S&T with full update. The bearer circuit to Bourton for the SSIs has tested clear. The fault appears to be beyond this, where the SSI route is split to the LDTs over signalling equipment.(Signalling local end). Swindon techs en-route to Bourton RR to reset the LDT's x 4, ETA 1845 Hrs Once the LDT's have been reset BOX TO will be able to assess the signalling system Incident Controller ********** All points clipped and scotched for TBW Swindon to Challow on both lines. Swindon MOM will issue tickets at SW1190 signal platform 1 Swindon, p/way will collect tickets at SB1010 for up trains Oxford MOM will issue tickets SB1011 signal Challow, p/way will collect tickets at SW1205 signal platform 3 Swindon Station Incident Controller ************ 16:52 Box To reports that he has directed S&T to LOC MLN066U096 at Uffington Yard where more Long Distance Terminals (LDTs) are dropping out. This may be a symptom of the fault at Bourton or it could be an additional problem. Meanwhile the LDTs at Bourton remain powered down. Box TO still liaising with Stoke TEC. ------------------------- 16:46 Bristol Parkway on site at Swindon has clipped and scotched 8626A/B in the normal position he has now been joined by 2 Swindon P Way members of staff to assist with clipping and scotching points. 16:41 TVSC box TO advises the temporary repair is not holding up and has again failed. ----------------------------------- 16:15 TFC Doncaster advises the ETA for their engineer to site is 18:30. ------------------------ 15:49 Stoke TEC remote analysis has identified a failed communications card (MAXM01) at site ID 0024 (Bourton) that is intermittently dropping out. Stoke TEC will instruct telecoms technicians to attend. ETA to be confirmed. ----------------------------------- 15:36 Box TO reports that S&T investigated the LOC at Bourton, where the four data links originate, where they witnessed a synchronized pattern of failure and recovery. In addition there are multiple LED failure indications suggesting a possible telecoms FTN fault. Swindon S&T are en route to the neighboring LOC to examine the indications there. Box TO still awaiting Stoke TEC analysis. -------------------------- Swindon MOM and Oxford MOM are clipping up Uffington and Bourton area. 15:35 P Way staff avaialble for the Swindon area enroute no ETA . 1 x Didcot 2 X Swindon. --------------------------- 15:31 train service has been suspended 15:25 TVSC SSM advises two trapped trains 1B40 and 1C85 will be brought through to Swindon by clearing signals on approach. --------------------------------- 14:48 TVSC SSM advises the red outs are occurring a regular basis every 4 or 5 minutes, further COA's reported by 1L62 SW1112 green to red CAT B SPAD, 1C16 SW1129 green to red. 14:44 TVSC Box TO advises that the affected Signal circuits are UFF.UP.01 A&B and UFF.DN.02 A&B the FTN node is the TVSC-Bourton route. Stoke TEC FTN is checking for telecoms issues in the area but cannot do an in depth search until the Box TO comes back with the telecoms FTN circuit number which he is looking up now. 14:43 Swindon MOM requested to go to Bourton and Oxford MOM to Uffington to clip all points. --------------------------- 14:30 TVSC SSM advises the first red out occurred at 14:13 affecting down main line only, the second red out occurred at 14:20 affecting the up and down main lines. Also there has been a third red out at 14:25 affecting the down main line only. There has been one COA reported by the driver working 1A19 (13:30 Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington) on SW1112 Yellow -red - green, driver is okay to continue. 14:30 TVSC SSM advises the first red out occurred at 14:13 affecting down main line only, the second red out occurred at 14:20 affecting the up and down main lines. Also there has been a third red out at 14:25 affecting the down main line only. There has been one COA reported by the driver working 1A19 (13:30 Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington) on SW1112 Yellow -red - green, driver is okay to continue. ----------------------------------- 14:18 TVSC Swindon signaller advises he has had a momentary red out affecting the down main line between Uffington and Swindon Bourton area. There has been no COA reported and everything has fully recovered with the TVSC box TO investigating. 14:19 TVSC SSM advises there appears to be a second momentary red out affecting all lines between Swindon Bourton and Uffington, waiting further details for the SSM or TVSC box TO. TV IC Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Electric train on April 30, 2017, 08:48:16 Quote 15:49 Stoke TEC remote analysis has identified a failed communications card (MAXM01) at site ID 0024 (Bourton) that is intermittently dropping out. Stoke TEC will instruct telecoms technicians to attend. ETA to be confirmed. This always fascinates me in the Signalling system there does not seem to be a independent dual telecoms routing between the controlling Box and the remote interlocking; in electrification the SCADA telecoms has two coms lines diversely routed from the ECR to the remote traction power location; its very rare that SCADA ever looses both coms lines Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: ChrisB on April 30, 2017, 10:01:45 So a) no trains reported as having revered to DID; indeed, states 'brought through to Swindon;
And b) Doncaster? Really? NR had no one closer?.....strewth Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: grahame on April 30, 2017, 10:24:59 And b) Doncaster? Really? NR had no one closer?.....strewth I read that and thought the same. However, reading back carefully it may very well be a reference to a control centre / specialist remote support resources in Doncaster, with the engineer(s) from there being on call from their bases / homes elsewhere. Estimate was 2.5 hours to be on site ... would be hard pushed to do that from Doncaster to what's probably a fairly obscure spot in the countryside somewhere on the Oxfordshire / Wiltshire border. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: IndustryInsider on April 30, 2017, 10:32:23 It doesn't mention whether Emergency Special Working was introduced (before Temporary Block Working was eventually set up) which is authorised between Ladbroke Grove and Wootton Bassett as part of a trial and is designed to get things moving quicker in such a situation.
https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/deviations/15-088-DEV.pdf Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: stuving on April 30, 2017, 10:37:28 So a) no trains reported as having revered to DID; indeed, states 'brought through to Swindon; And b) Doncaster? Really? NR had no one closer?.....strewth That'll be NRT, not NR. Network Rail Telecoms runs the fibre trunk network (FTN - though apparently that stands for Fixed Telecom Network). They have two network management centres, Crewe and Doncaster. I had been wondering for some time whether the "recontrol" of signalling areas to the ROCs was by now using IP for its networking, and if so down to what level. The point being that you then could - and would - provide at least two links to everywhere, so no single failure would cut off a node. There's a technical article here from RailEngineer (https://www.railengineer.uk/2015/08/12/uk-railway-telecommunications-2015-update/) that says the IP-based successor to the FTN (FTNx) exists on the core network, but suggesting that it does not go much further out into the countryside. Germany is cited as having gone much further, with IP to the signal head, which I presume is the ambition here too. That reminds me of a question I had about the resignalling of the GWML, resulting in it all being connected to ROCs, and whether that will or will not reduce the excessive number of failures seen recently. Will all the signals across the four-track sections rely on the same grey boxes and links to their ROCs, one one side of the line (at any point)? Following which you could add: will here be at least two IP routes to trackside, at grey box if not lightbulb level? Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on April 30, 2017, 10:56:14 Now then, this is a very complex subject but here goes.......
In simple terms you have two diverse end fed baseband communication links (maximum length of 8km) feeding all Trackside Functional Modules (TFM) that control the actual signal lamps and through relays, the points. These are housed in the trackside grey boxes (known as Location Cases). In this area Train Detection is still by track circuits (but due to be replaced by axle counters in the future) and these also feed into the TFM. So any loss of both baseband links means total loss of signalling. Beyond the baseband links there are the Fixed Telecommunication Network (FTN) nodes that provide the link between the trackside and the signalling control centre, Thames Valley Signalling Centre (TVSC) in this case. The interlocking is located there and this is triplicated for redundancy in a 2 out of 3 configuration (i.e. any 2 out of 3 modules need to be working and in agreement before any output is processed, so very robust). The FTN network is very diverse so I am very supprised about the nature of this failure. I'm sure we will hear more about it. Hope that makes sense and is not too technical (and apologies to CfN who might have to add a few things to the acronyms and abbreviations page :P) Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on April 30, 2017, 11:11:09 It doesn't mention whether Emergency Special Working was introduced (before Temporary Block Working was eventually set up) which is authorised between Ladbroke Grove and Wootton Bassett as part of a trial and is designed to get things moving quicker in such a situation. https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/deviations/15-088-DEV.pdf I think the loss of point detection would have prevented this. Noted in BNMs post above that the MOM (Mobile Operations Manager) was running around clipping and padlocking points. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: DidcotPunter on April 30, 2017, 11:12:36 Hope that makes sense and is not too technical (and apologies to CfN who might have to add a few things to the acronyms and abbreviations page :P) Yes it does and thank you for explaining. I have a question which perhaps others can answer. According to the incident log it appears that the points on the Bourton and Uffington crossovers were clipped up to enable Temporary Block Working (TBW) and it seems that this was instituted sometime around 5:00pm. If this was available why then were no trains sent through the section until after 8:00pm (1Z89 Plymouth to Padd appears to have been the first up service)?? I understand that Swindon to Challow would be a very long block section, but surely this would have allowed them to get some trains moving? It was reported elsewhere that there weren't the staff available to implement TBW but the above log suggests that wasn't the case. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: SandTEngineer on April 30, 2017, 11:13:55 So a) no trains reported as having revered to DID; indeed, states 'brought through to Swindon I was watching Open Train Times maps and saw at least one Bristol bound train reverse from Steventon back to Didcot station but this was outside of the failed area so was done using the working reversible signalling. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 30, 2017, 17:09:56 Quote (FTN - though apparently that stands for Fixed Telecom Network). Really? I thought it stood for 'Four Track, Now!' :)Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: didcotdean on April 30, 2017, 20:03:49 I see from local media (sorry can't link to easily ATM as on mobile) that Oxfordshire County Council's emergency response team stepped in at Didcot helping to provide for the people stranded there with such items as buses, taxis plus obtaining food and drink via deploying the local fire station. I trust ultimately NR will be picking up the bill for this, useful a training exercise it might have been for OCC.
Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Rob S on April 30, 2017, 20:35:07 I see from local media (sorry can't link to easily ATM as on mobile) that Oxfordshire County Council's emergency response team stepped in at Didcot helping to provide for the people stranded there with such items as buses, taxis plus obtaining food and drink via deploying the local fire station. I trust ultimately NR will be picking up the bill for this, useful a training exercise it might have been for OCC. I was on the 1832 Reading to Swansea train (to go to Swindon) that ended up sitting at Didcot station for just over an hour and a half and can confirm that bottled water, apples and oranges were provided by people on the platform there. Nobody said anything about buses or taxis though I felt rather sorry for the people that took the advice of the train manager (to catch the 2005 back to Reading before heading to south Wales via Basingstoke and Salisbury!) as our train eventually carried on it's journey at about 2020hrs Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 30, 2017, 20:54:38 ... (and apologies to CfN who might have to add a few things to the acronyms and abbreviations page :P) With thanks for your concern on my behalf, SandTEngineer, I have now reviewed, and inserted where necessary, definitions for all of the abbreviations / acronyms that have been used in this topic. ;) May I take this opportunity to thank all of our members for posting any such abbreviations, together with their full description the first time they are used. I'm happy to add them to our 'acronyms / abbreviations' page whenever a new one is used - or indeed you can offer me updates / clarification of existing entries by PM. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: grahame on May 03, 2017, 16:47:48 Follow up news story ...
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15259860.Family_stranded_on_platform_as_train_home_cancelled Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: John R on May 03, 2017, 17:43:41 A bit of a no news story as many of the comments suggest ( and just for clarity, I did not post a couple of them despite the similarity in user name).
Whereas most people just get on with it, a few attention seekers will always try to blow the story up out of proportion. In South Wales we had the sob story of the girl who didn't get back from London in time for her 18th birthday family meal. Hardly merits a news story, does it? Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: chuffed on May 03, 2017, 18:26:57 Just read that 'the FTN network is very diverse' in an earlier post. Didn't realise just how diverse it was ...it seems that our ubiquitous friend FT,N gets everywhere, with or without the comma !
Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Electric train on May 03, 2017, 19:33:58 I see from local media (sorry can't link to easily ATM as on mobile) that Oxfordshire County Council's emergency response team stepped in at Didcot helping to provide for the people stranded there with such items as buses, taxis plus obtaining food and drink via deploying the local fire station. I trust ultimately NR will be picking up the bill for this, useful a training exercise it might have been for OCC. There is an agreed National process for Local Authorities to off charge to public agencies like NR, no real cash exchanges hands. The Rail Industry also has agreements with Charities that provide support Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 03, 2017, 20:26:28 A bit of a no news story as many of the comments suggest ( and just for clarity, I did not post a couple of them despite the similarity in user name). Whereas most people just get on with it, a few attention seekers will always try to blow the story up out of proportion. In South Wales we had the sob story of the girl who didn't get back from London in time for her 18th birthday family meal. Hardly merits a news story, does it? If it was your daughter, or you were one of her family, you may well feel differently. It's very easy to be blasé about something like this, a pal of mine missed a wedding in Cornwall a while back because the trains completely fell over (again), it may not be front page news to those not directly affected, but those involved were devastated that he wasn't there. He didn't go to the Press, but it's the sort of thing that does get into the papers.....it's called Human interest and it's the bread and butter of local newspapers. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: John R on May 03, 2017, 20:50:21 I may feel differently, but I wouldn't go the press about it and that seems to be the general sentiment of the comments. The problem is that local media have so few journalists left that they have to rely on "free" stories to fill the space, both print and online. That doesn't make for quality journalism.
And besides, they were advised to take a train to Bath where transport would be provided. But they didn't follow the advice. So hardly surprising that they then waited for ages. If you don't take the transport operator's advice in such circumstances then I don't think you can have a complaint. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 03, 2017, 21:00:54 And besides, they were advised to take a train to Bath where transport would be provided. But they didn't follow the advice. So hardly surprising that they then waited for ages. If you don't take the transport operator's advice in such circumstances then I don't think you can have a complaint. I was referring to the specific case you mentioned about the "sob story" as you put it about the girl who missed her 18th birthday party thanks to the railways and your rather disparaging attitude towards it......I agree that the family referred to in the Swindon Advertiser link didn't help themselves however. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: grahame on May 03, 2017, 21:14:59 Hmmm ... agreed, they didn't help themselves ... but then not everyone who uses the train (especially on the TransWilts, where it's not been a realistic option for very long) has the skills and background to make good short term decisions.
I appreciate they were put off using the train to Bath and then the bus ... but they could have walked five minutes into Trowbridge and caught the direct bus to Swindon where they would have arrived (according to the timing in the story) before they even abandoned Trowbridge Station. For sure, some cases get highlighted out of proportion. And for sure the railways get the blame when they're blocked in a way the Highways Agency doesn't get the blame if a road is blocked (compensation for arriving late due to a traffic jam, anyone?), but there is a case at some stations for providing more effective customer guidance, understanding too that in a developing situation no-one can provide 100% sure advise. Title: Re: Major Signalling Failure Swindon to Didcot 29/04/2017 Post by: Trowres on May 03, 2017, 21:23:48 I am unclear of the reason why several Westbury-Swindon services were cancelled. Was Swindon station itself affected by the technical failure? - or was it due to trains being queued on the up line approaching Swindon due to lack of free platforms and a rather slow turning-around of services to return to Bristol, Plymouth etc?
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