Great Western Coffee Shop

Much hailed announcement that these would be running from today [03 Jul 17 - RS]. However a look on RTT seems to indicate that it will be the usual 15x's.

RTT just shows pathing, not what class will actually run, I expect it still to be turbos today.

The cascade has begun!

They are running on the branch today.  Although the first round trip was cancelled due to signalling problems and the second was slightly delayed by a door problem.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/briturb.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/briturb2.jpg)

.... and at Severn Beach.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/svbturb.jpg)

I see that the unit is a 166.  Is there an advertised first class on this service?  They are the only Turbos still to have a designated FC compartment - though now you have to guess which end.

Remaining first class accommodation has been declassified.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/tvbfirst.jpg)

Longer term plan is to convert one of the former first class areas to a bike store.

Wow, really? That would be about the only thing that might make me lament the Turbos' departure from the Cotswolds...

Would the first trip have been non-Turbo had it run?   Suggestions elsewhere that it forms a service to Weston SM on return so isn't being 'Turbo-ised' in the first phase.

Paul

That's right. The first one is still a sprinter that runs through to weston

When I used to live in that neck of the woods I never liked catching that service. Often into Bristol TM on P10 or P12 right down to the country end. About as far as you can get from the station exit.

The Severn Beach - Weston-super-Mare weekday early AM used to be a single head code through service. A couple of years back it was split into two head codes for operational reasons despite the unit nearly always working through. Downside of that change was it no longer showed on booking systems as a through service, and with the wait at Bristol TM being 7 minutes it's no longer a valid connection. Unless you're in the know or the Guard/TE tells you.

I read on journeycheck that the Severn Beach line was suffering delays due to 'congestion' at about lunchtime. I cannot imagine congestion on the Severn Beach line ????

The congestion was mainly at Clifton Down where the trains pass.  Successive trains were being held there while the previously delayed service made it back from Avonmouth.  Several services were turned short at Clifton Down in an attempt to get things back on time.

Some thought may need to be given to the signage on Platform 1 at Bristol Temple Meads.

A three car turbo has one set of doors past the "Passengers must not pass this point" sign.  ???

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/briplat1.jpg)

It was the first I had heard of it.  I was told by a member of GWR middle-management and am trying to find out more.

Presumably this is only for units transferring to Bristol, not the entire fleet?

Had a go on the new turbos today. Pleasantly surprised to see they were already in the new GWR livery inside and out. They feel and sound very different.  I can echo the previous comments about delays. While waiting for the 15.34 from Redland to TM the arrival indicator announced the preceding service to Avonmouth/Severn Beach cancelled and the service went though Redland without stopping a few mins later. My TM service was about 5 mins late with no apparent ticket staff but 3 staff in the rear drivers compartment.
Just one ticket seller on platform 3 at TM too.
Return 17.13 service was running about 17 mins behind schedule. I decided to ask the guard if it would stop at Redland though.
Looks like a few teething problems but that is surely to be expected.

johneyw. I was the delayed 1713 to SVB too! Sat right at the front. From where I didn't hear the announcement that the service was turning back at Avonmouth. GWR attempting to reduce the delays that have dogged the Severn Beach Line all day.  My plan was to go to St Andrew's Road and take a picture or two. Then return to my car at Shirehampton. Instead I alighted at Shire and have driven to St Andrew's Road.

Turning the 1713 back at Avonmouth has meant an hours delay for passenger on it who wanted St Andrews Road and Severn Beach. A substantial number at that time of day.

BNM, I decided to make the best of the delay and jumped on the 17.09 to Lawrence Hill to dive into Lidl for a couple of things then join the delayed 17.13 from there. I've got accustomed to what I can buy from Lidl in 15 mins over the years!☺

BTW, did you manage to get any photos to post?

As it happened I was on the 1405 to Avon mofe as the automated voice kept saying Shy yurr Hampton sounded a bit odd too! . Apart from a minutes unpleasant vertical juddering at Sea Mills....thought someone was pile driving the viaduct...it was a very pleasant journey. No ticket inspections, tho I saw the guard at least 6 times. I thought the interior looked, felt and smelt brand new. altho closer inspection  revealed one or two minor blemishes. Good numbers at Redland,Clifton Down.and for the 1515 from Temple Meads back to Severn Beach... the general expression was one of disbelief !

Now bnm, I know you say you have a big nose, and it has been mentioned in the past by yourself/other forum members that you may not be the slimmest person in the world, but to say you are the size of a 3 car turbo, is surely pushing it a bit!  :)

Missing. One preposition.

Thanks Adelante!  ;D

Are you the size of a Class 180?  :P


I'll post those shortly. Just need to have a mini rant on another board...

I was on the 8.16 from Clifton Down this morning. GWR staff were in attendance on the platform handing out leaflets promoting the new trains and holding trays with what may have been pastries (they were mostly covered by the leaflets and I wasn't actually offered one). The journey seemed smoother than the usual 150, but we were 20 minutes late arriving at Temple Meads. Oddly, while the indicator at Platform 1 at Clifton Down showed the 8.16 to Avonmouth as cancelled, we waited to enter the single-line section at Redland as usual, and were passed by another turbo. Perhaps it was running non-stop to Avonmouth to make up time.

Returning on the 18.47, I bagged a seat in a declassified first-class compartment, thanks to bobm's tip. It seemed a little incongruous to be travelling along the Beach line in a leather seat, but the extra space and table made for a comfortable journey, especially as there was only one other passenger there. I wonder how long it will take before the regulars catch on and the compartments fill up quickly. The speed of the train seemed slightly slower than usual, and we were 7 minutes late arriving at Clifton Down.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, it will be most welcome having three carriages on the hitherto two-carriage 18.03 from Temple Meads. I catch that train occasionally and I'm not sure I've ever succeeded in getting a seat.

I would like to hear from regular users on the more crowded former 2 carriage services how things are now that there are 3. I'm also wondering if this will gradually encourage more onto these services, as I suspect they will. If so, will the continued cascade be able to supply an extra carriage or are other priorities going to prevent this?

Here are some photos I took this afternoon/evening of the Class 166s on the Severn Beach Line:

I parked up at Shirehampton, my old stamping ground, for the 1607 to Bristol TM.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgTXAyODRxbnAtNms)

Arrived at Bristol TM, 16 late. How does one board through the front set of doors without commiting a byelaw offence?
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgZ0RzZkN6M2lBNGc)

A pint of shandy in Boney Parts then the 1713 to St Andrew's Road. Departed 17 late.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgSlhWVWtfVzlQV0U)

Due to late departure didn't make it to St Andrew's Road by train. Learnt from RealTime Trains en route that the service was turning back at Avonmouth. No PA in front carriage. Bailed at Shirehampton and jumped in car.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgVUhwaHFwWmpMV3c)

Drove to St Andrew's Road.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7Egb2l0OTBJVUxvbHc)

Then drove back to Clifton Down.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgRWU4ZkJTNTFVSWc)

It's un-necessary to board through the front doors as you can walk through.  More to the point, are you instructed not to leave the train through the rear doors on arrival to avoid committing an offence (and I note the offence is not in getting off the train, but it passing the board - so technically you could get off, realise, get back on and walk through the train ...).

Ah - too early in the morning to get pedantic, isn't it?   I'm sure the signage will be adjusted some time!

Looking very smart, now all we need is a few quid to redouble it and hang the electric string ;-)

Do you mean an extra, extra carriage (ie a fourth?) Coz that won't happen.

Seems to be that the thread title is incorrect.    Should be 166s not 165s

Note that previously the arrival into BRI at 0758 was usually 3 cars, so the increase in capacity for that service will be less dramatic.

What's happened to the replaced 15Xs, will they act as extra depot cover for failed services or will these be used to strengthen other Bristol/Exeter area commuter services?

I think it may have been mentioned that a particular service from A to B could do with being strengthened, I can't remember the location but I think it departs from A at something like 17:36, and is possibly the first service on that route for over 2 hours? As I say I think such a service exists and has possibly been mentioned on this forum before, but I could be wrong!

Three 150/1s destined for Northern in September and which are remaining to help out for the Summer period.   This is the latest that I have heard but anything can happen.   The morning Peaks were 3 Car 150s but not in the evening when they were also required but not available.

A better journey in this morning, with the 8.16 from Clifton Down arriving at Temple Meads 7 minutes late. The return 18.47 was again 20 minutes late arriving at Clifton Down, though. Does anyone know why the Turbos are, it appears, travelling more slowly than the 150s?

On my return journey, the ex-first-class compartment I travelled in still had antimacassars with 'First Class' embroidered on them, so I asked the guard to confirm that it was declassified. She did, adding that because of the signage I would probably have the compartment to myself. That prediction proved to be correct!

I noticed that there were extra staff on the Monday services to advise the drivers. The slowing down at each stop was noticeable. My guess is that that the new stock needs some acclimatizing.

There were Driver and Guard Managers onboard the services I took.

Had my first go on the Severn Turbos this morning - they still seem to be having slight timekeeping issues, but otherwise very impressed!

I'll try not be sniffy about the fact that they are 25 years old, or that maybe Bristol (the only place outside the M25 that makes a positive contribution to the exchequer) deserves better - they are a huge improvement on what we had before.

(https://zemblanity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/severn-riviara-express-e1499249152444.jpg)

Now that's an interesting fact. What's the background/evidence/rationale, out of interest?

Google wants to be your friend, but if you're too shy then you could start here:


This report (http://www.nashpartnership.com/download/112/manifesto_bristol_rdc.pdf) states it more formally.

I googled "Large" and "Bristol" but although there were lots and lots of results, none seemed to be about the economy...  ;D

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgeUd0Q2xwejNyZDg)

The report says "beyond the south east of England only the Bristol city economy
makes a net contribution to the Exchequer. All other Core City economies are subsidised".

So not exactly "the only place outside the M25" - rather, the only city of an arbitrary size outside the south-east. Core Cities are apparently defined as Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Glasgow, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, and Sheffield.

I'd be amazed if Oxford and Cambridge (and their respective hinterlands) didn't make a net contribution, to take two examples. Doesn't alter the fact that Bristol could do with better trains, of course.

You make a fair point, Mr Fairhurst!:


...and then, a bit later in the same report:


Anyone see a pattern emerging?

Not that much happening for me today , so I thought I would have a bit of a jolly,took the revamped Seven Riviera service to Seven Beach from Sea Mills and back again !
Most impressed by the ride and comfort of the class 166, I managed to sit in first class both ways and was not troubled by any other passengers on either of my journeys .
I notice two in the driving compartment on both trips, one who is training to drive and his instructor, according to the guard who himself was new to the job.
One slight gripe,the guard couldn't sell me a ticket on either of my trips today and no ticket machine at the beach or sea mills So GWR IOU £3:00.
As a point of interest when are the Oyster type machines on the platforms coming on line,could anyone shed some light on this for me ? Please.

No idea when Smartcard are being rolled out on the Severn Beach Line, but here's a picture of one of the readers:

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgbjFlTWZtVWE2ZUU)

Are there any scheduled plans to increase the frequency of trains on this line? And improve track to allow this?

A service of every 45minutes seems ridiculous to me, surely 15 minutes at peak and 30 minutes at the rest of the day.

I believe the intent is to increase it to half hourly once the Filton four tracking is complete.

The line has become a scheduler's nightmare as service has built up from the occasional train on a sleepy branch in the 1970s. Single track sections mean that you have to have trains pass each other at specific places, and the mainline interaction means that you've got to dovetail in with other services coming from as far as Penzance, Aberdeen, Brighton and Cardiff.

Of course, if you ran a loop service - in the morning out via Abbey Wood and Hallen and back via Avonmouth and Clifton Down, it would only be signalling that needed upgrades ... reverse direction in the evening, Avonmouth to Severn Beach to become a shuttle.     But there would be plenty of reasons it couldn't happen ...

Ah, so the Henbury loop would have been a major bonus!

Lets hope the new WoE Mayor can magic up the extra money to turn the spur into a loop!

I noticed this afternoon that the 1603 from BRI wasn't a turbo. I was under the impression that apart from the first working of the day the branch has completely moved to turbos, so wonder whether I've got that wrong?

Just for clarity I have moved the posts about problems seeing some pictures on this thread to the existing topic we have on Photobucket - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18408.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18408.0)

It's not you that's wrong.  What's wrong is that there was a Turbo failure

Yes -- it was back to the old order on the 18.47 tonight, which was a 150, and 15 minutes late at Clifton Down. On my outward journey, the 8.16 Turbo from Clifton Down departed on time and was about 5 minutes late at Temple Meads -- not unusual for that train.

You'll get used to it.......we all did (and still do!) on LTV!

Chatting with a driver today I was told that the Turbos are being limited to 5mph at Bristol TM and Montpelier. They have to be down to that speed before the platform ramp.

What, never finished the gauge clearance work, then?

This driver said that Turbos were cleared for all platforms at line speed back when they ran Bristol-Oxford services.

There has been no platform work done as far as I know. But maybe track profiles have changed since the Turbos were last in Bristol in 2003.

If that is the case, it's not the only place where things have changed. We've discussed the Isle of Wight (Ryde Tunnel) situation here, and it was absurd (or premature) to do works at Salisbury that have resulted in the banning of class 153 units from platform 3 there.  We end up day after day with the 11:11 Westbury to Southampton showing as "cancelled" on Journey Check, with a new train at 11:11 running from - err - Westbury to Southampton.    As the 11:11 provides an important connection from the West Country to Southampton, the train's not a quiet one but a 153 will have enough seats for everyone  most days (shock, horror - people may have to sit next to a stranger or have their bag give up its seat!) but a wonder how many are put off by the rather unfortunate way the public are told that the train is CANCELLED when (from a passenger view point) it's just a bit more social with fellow passengers.

In a world of more specialism, we seem to loose the ability to mix and match if things get changed around ...

I see Chris Grayling is at Temple Meads today to ride the Severn Beach Riviera Express. Can anyone on this forum, and on his train, put in a plea for the Portishead line, the Henbury loop, electrification (lack of), and raise any other rail related matters with him. He needs to know our strength of feeling on these issues.

That's shockingly poor if that's the case. NR has had how many years to plan this work, and indeed there has been a delay in the Turbos arriving because of electrification delays.  By now they should have been operating all over the area. 

Just saw and heard Chris Grayling sat on a stationery Turbo at Temple Meads, on Points West, where he said he wants to 'sort out Portishead' and as good as admitted that we have been poorly served as a region in recent years. I hope we get a longer soundbite in the evening bulletin.

No magic - it's central government having the magnanimity to allow us to spend some of our own locally-raised taxes locally!


When I got on at Montpelier yesterday I noticed that they'd repainted the edge and the 'Mind the Gap' markings. Shame if they have to come back adjust it! It was quite nice not to have to step over a yawning gap.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/graybri.jpg)
(Pic: From Twitter)

Chris Grayling at Bristol Temple Meads today.  Standing to the right is Andy Mellors, currently GWR Deputy MD and yesterday announced as the new MD of South Western.

Interesting take from the government release.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bristol-commuters-to-benefit-from-new-fleet-of-modern-spacious-trains-and-contactless-payment

By what stretch of imagination is a 25 year old train "modern"?  Better maybe, not quite so ancient, possibly, but modern, no.

Hey, that's being a little bit unfair.  The 'modern' trains are at least 25 years old whereas the ones they replaced are 30 years old, so the quote is quite accurate..... ::) :P

Report (http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/sevturb.mp4) on the Minister's visit on BBC Points West

Hmmm, just words, no specifics, nothing new and really was just confirming delays and dilution of Metrowest with talk about slow and belated progress.

He was there fact-finding.

At bit of negative coverage in the Evening Post:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/complaints-new-severn-beach-turbo-176943

It's perhaps a tad harsh although it raises the question of how well GWR prepared for the Monday switch over.

Portishead is not dead in the water - so some reasonable news there
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/portishead-rail-line-not-dead-174682

You know, I have never noticed a "Passengers must not pass this point" sign right there. Boy, is my face red!

Is that recent? The Piccadilly Voyager used to park in P1 for crew lunch break (1V49, arrives 1206, now parks on P3 until 1300)

8.40am on Monday - so pretty recent.  ;D

It certainly seems odd. The listed length for P1 is 96 m "buffer stop to top of ramp", and provided the posts haven't been wandering about since the conveyor came down they are 21 m and 33 m from the end (top of ramp). So the sign only allows 63 m - too short for (all of) a 166. Even up to the signal post it would only be 75 m, so less than a Voyager.

Why would it be put there? I have a suspicion that it's where the width reaches 5 m, the minimum the rules allow between two faces. So why does the length in the operational rules not reflect where the sign is?

Logic would suggest it should be at the point that the yellow lines come together.  As it is, there is an area that's clearly behind both yellow lines so where you can stand, but beyond the sign so you cannot stand there.  Lack of consistency!

I think the sign has been placed on the last lampost to avoid the cost of an extra post at the top of the platform ramp.  This has been done at quite a few stations on the National Network.

07:16 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 07:53


07:16 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 07:53 has been cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

................welcome to Turbo world!  ;)

Thank you.  It's not a new world in terms of loss of service though ... although I'm far away, I have noted for my own local station  ... Thursday, cancellation.  Friday, cancellation plus one train (at least) skipping the stop.  Saturday, buses for trains, Sunday, buses for trains.    And that's on a service schedule of less that 10 each way over 24 hours.

The question comes  .... "how can passengers / passenger groups / etc effectively make it know to the power that be that such a high failure to provide (for whatever reason) rate has a serious impact on people's lives; how can we help them to get it better - MUCH better - for us, without nagging and grumbling in such a way that we just make more work for them in answering our complaints, and end up turning them off helping for the mutual benefit of them and us?".  It's something we're really struggling to answer on the TransWilts at the moment ... on such a sparse service, a gap of one train leaves a huge hole - there isn't another one half an hour behind it ... but it's to damned easy, operationally, to simply close a branch if you're short of crew, short of a working train, if a freight fails, or if the points stick.

"New" trains...................no drivers  ::)

Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Severn Beach


Due to a shortage of train crew between Bristol Temple Meads and Severn Beach:
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 18:00 09/07.
Customer Advice
Road replacement transport will operate in both directions.

From ITV Westcountry (http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2017-07-26/severn-beach-rail-passenger-service-is-worst-weve-ever-seen-it/)  (Videos in the link)

A pair I got yesterday were 10mins & 20mins late.

There's very little time allowed for turn around at Severn Beach (3mins yesterday), so 10min late arrival starts off the return being 7mins late if it left immediately, which of course it doesn't, so carries the outward delay back to BRI, picking up further delay as it returns.

Timings that were perfectly fine for the Class 150s. The poor timekeeping is down to the Class 16x Turbos. GWR West are yet to get to grips with the 'new' trains.

Although it's probably best that teething troubles are confined to the Severn Beach Line. Better to resolve operational issues there than have problems across the west when further Turbos head to Bristol. Cold comfort for Severn Beach Line users though.

There appears to be a speed limit?

I don't know what the line speeds were under the 150s, but the turbo crawled along, having picked up a couple of mins delay after following a freight out of BRI. The fastest section was after Avonmouth towards Severn Beach.

Swarming with GWR staff on a learning exercise. Outnumbered those going to Severn Beach they did. Has the fare Anytime Return always been £3 or less?

If these problems were foreseen ( and if not, why weren't they?) then maybe it would have been better to use the units on a double track route with reasonable turn around times, so that delays don't automatically compound. Eg the Weston to Bristol Parkway run.  Too late now though...

I've been filled in on much of the detail; around half a dozen separate issues were mentioned, each quite small in their own right, but they've added up / compounded.   One or two were foreseen, one or two were along the lines of "we'll have to see how that works out" and at least on related to delayed clearances at full speed.  Those that relate to how customers will behave would probably have needed a psychologist on the team to predict.   I seem to recall the Borders Railway running empty for training purposes for a considerable period - that would have been very unwelcome on "The Beach", and selecting another service in a bigger network pond would have lead to the waves from any delay spreading far wider.

In other words - no ideal first place in the west; sorry that SVB has had the teething problems which couldn't be totally anticipated.

Generally longer turnaround times at Swindon and Westbury......  ;)

Since 2009, when the service was improved. It's terrific value, and only £9.00 for a weekly ticket. It's a bit of an embarrassment - I think the service was only improved to prove that in wasn't viable, as Atkins had eyes on ripping it up for a guided busway. It didn't work out that way!

So now, we have:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/36183586845_79690ebd51_h.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4326/36183586845_79690ebd51_h.jpg)

Looking very smart at Lawrence Hill! Sorry, just the phone.

Most of my journeys on the Severn Beach line since the Turbos were introduced have been between 5 and 10 minutes late.

One train from Temple Meads was 30 minutes late and terminated at Clifton Down. I'd hope that, when that happens, passengers for stations beyond Clifton Down would be directed to the buses, also run by First Group, which leave from outside Clifton Down station, with rail tickets accepted: the 3 goes to Avonmouth via Shirehampton, and the 4 to Shirehampton via Sea Mills. I didn't hear any announcements, though.

But I've also had a few journeys, in each direction, which have been on time, so the 166s are evidently capable of keeping to the timetable. I'd wondered whether, having been built for express runs between Oxford and Paddington, their gearing was unsuited to the frequent station stops on the Severn Beach line.

There's some coverage of the poor timekeeping in the Bristol Post here: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/more-85-new-severn-beach-227090 (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/more-85-new-severn-beach-227090).

The 165/6 kept to time on the frequent stoppers Padd to Reading, they were built as inner / outer suburban units

I wonder why the 166s were sent to Severn Beach anyway? In the pre-cascadean era the North Downs Line used to have 166s to Gatwick and 165s to Redhill. There's no difference in gearing (it's Chilterns 165s that are lower geared), but the interiors of 166s suit the airport run better (more luggage space, more seats for groups). Then earlier this year it was all 166s, until this month when we've had 165s on all the services I've seen.

So he's become aware of the delays and unreliability, yet hasn't amended his travel plans to get an earlier service to sign on.

Were I a potential employer, I would be concerned that Mr Brindle hadn't found himself able to adjust his personal plans and invest an extra 40 minutes to ensure he was on time when it became clear to him there was a problem.  It could be that there are issues that prevented him from travelling earlier - for example having to drop off the little one at childcare, but if that were the case it would raise concerns about his taking this story to the media.

I'm very conscious that we don't invade passenger's personal space and issues here. However, by going to ITV Mr Brindle has put himself and his situation in the public domain.  Should he happen to read this, he is very welcome indeed to sign up, fill us in, comment ... as always with this sort of media thing, our story might not be complete.

Two points - firstly, a customer, whether he is employed or not and irrespective of their personal circumstances, should not have to fit his schedule around the daily failure of GWR to provide the service that they are advertising, however the sentiment typifies the attitude of the railways and their cheerleaders towards the travelling public.

Secondly, and in respect of the Press article, GWR have not "invested in a fleet of Turbo trains", they have just moved a few 20+ year old trains from one area to the other, judging by the reaction of some to this, it would seem to be akin to a visitation from the Messiah. 

I agree a customer should not have to, but ultimately it is the employee's responsibility to present themselves to work on time. And in the case in question, with an appointment time past noon, it's unlikely that childcare arrangements would prevent him taking an earlier train.

GWR are providing an unreliable service and our collective answer here is to question how the person highlighting this lives his life?

As has been noted, Mr Brindle has put his personal situation into the public domain, and thus I think discussion is reasonable.

As an employee for over 30 years I have made it my responsibility to get to work on time, because it is what my employers would expect, and indeed what most employers would expect. That isn't to say that there have been unforeseeable situations whereby I have been late, but where on the balance of probabilities there has been a risk of delay, I have made the appropriate adjustments. If I were in his situation, I would get an earlier train until such time as it appeared that the problems were resolved.

In theory, people should not have to adjust their lives to compensate for the regular inefficiency of the railway.
Back in the real world, if continued employment, or continued receipt of benefits is at risk due to regular railway failures, then yes it would be prudent to allow a generous safety margin when travelling on todays railway.

One of the reasons that I left London was the poor and subjectively worsening public transport. I had the choice of southern/thameslink, which was relatively quick but so unreliable that I had to take the train prior to the one that should have got me to work. There was of course no question of getting a seat after the new shorter trains were introduced.

There was also the risk of being trapped for hours when everything stopped due to signalling improvements.

Alternatively, I could take the bus. This was cheaper and less stressful but very slow. I always got a seat on the bus, but only because I boarded at the second stop. After the first few stops the bus reached GWR standards of overcrowding. Each year the bus journey took slightly longer, due to ever increasing road blocking and traffic obstructing schemes.

So yes, I had to plan my life around the inefficiencies of the public transport system, as do many others.

No need to quote the real world at me Broadgage, I've been coping with GWR's (and their predecessors) versions of it for many years - your points however do serve to illustrate why the car remains a far, far better and more reliable option, and any pretence that the railways have to supersede it as a realistic option are a mere pipe dream.

My current commute by car can take from 20 mins to 90 mins depending what time I start. Those delays can be no different to that of the train.

Yes - I wouldn't doubt your experience, TG, but you can't extrapolate it everywhere. Whatever indignities Thames, FGW and GWR have visited upon us in Charlbury over the years, in aggregate the train has been far more reliable than Wolvercote and Peartree roundabouts.

Do you ever find yourself so overcrowded in your car that you spend the entire journey standing wedged between other people for over an hour? Or confined in similar conditions in over 100 degree heat because there is no working aircon or open windows?

I've an MPV so lots of room, and ice cold climate control

Has anybody on here ever suggested that the train always trumps the car?  The car wins in some situations, the train in others, just as a plane, bicycle or good old fashioned walk can be the best option.

The fact journey numbers have more than doubled over the last twenty years, far more than the population increase over the same time period, indicates the train has become the best option for more people and more journeys, but of course it's never going to replace the car.

I think you're missing the point - journey numbers have indeed more than doubled but you're confusing two issues -  reliability, capacity, cleanliness, customer service etc have nowhere near kept pace - the usage of something increasing doesn't necessarily indicate that it's the "best" option, for a large number of people it has been, and remains, the only option, and that allows the Rail Industry to get away with a great deal, including attitudes like "well you'd better leave home an hour earlier" in response to the issue of reliability/punctuality causing people problems reaching work, appointments etc on time rather than getting it's own house in order in respect of increasing punctuality and reliability.

Who from the railway industry has ducked responsibility and said it's up to the passenger travelling to get an earlier train?

I've cited an attitude, not a statement. There is a difference.

One is implicit, the other is explicit.

There are two separate points here, and it's important not to confuse them.  The first is should the railway run a reliable service, and I am sure we are all in agreement that it should.

The second point is what attitude and personal responsibility people adopt when faced with a situation whereby the service is flakey on a regular basis (as experienced out of our region by many Southern commuters for the last year unfortunately). The person seeking work who was complaining to the media appeared to take the view that he wasn't going to change his approach, and if he was late for his appointment then so be it. Other courses of action are possible, even if they involve a bit more effort of personal inconvenience, and they may be more symptomatic of a work ethic and attitude that is likely to encourage prospective employers to take him on. 

Thanks for clarifying that.  Your post read, to me at least, as if that's what had actually been said.

I certainly agree with that part of your post in respect of journeys increasing into London being driven by people being prepared to sacrifice more of their day commuting because of being effectively priced out of living anywhere near central London.  The train is indeed usually the only realistic choice.

However, long distance and rural routes have also seen very large increases at off-peak times (indeed IIRC they were two markets that still grew in the last set of results when South East commuter journeys fell back) often in places where the population has risen very little if at all. They are journeys where there are usually other options available.

There are also massive success stories even within London such as London Overground which gets ever more popular and busy all day.

It's quite a complicated picture as usual.

I have been on the Severn Beach line a few times since these Class 166s came in. Despite the teething problems I find these trains to be better than the 'Sardine class' (class 150) units that were used previously. I believe they are to start using more 166s on services around Bristol later this year: anyone know what route(s) will be next to see them and when?

Dave

Bristol Parkway to Weston-super-mare local trains are scheduled to be next, I believe, in the early autumn. Mind you, what happens and when have been known to change.

Still some trouble with the Turbos today. The 08.50 Redland to Temple Meads was running about 20 mins late and seemed to be having a knock on effect on later services. Scuppered my planned day out as I would have missed my connecting service.

This makes well over half the Severn Beach Line services I've caught this month moderately or very late. Well paid GWR top management haven't been justifying their pay packet on this shambles.

Another delay on the 1603 from Temple Meads today. Looked like no driver available on time. Finally set off dunno how many mins late but probably about 10 to 15. Never had anything like this amont of consistent delays with the pre Turbos. GWR claims that they were getting on top of the problems seem not to be evidence based from my experience. I wonder how they define getting on top of a problem.

Struggling all day today................

Alterations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Severn Beach


Due to a fault on this train between Bristol Temple Meads and Severn Beach:
Train services running to and from these stations are returning to normal but some services may still be delayed by up to 15 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

One unit broke down and was swapped.  The other was reported to be on "low power"

Have these Turbos always been this unreliable or have they just not got the shelf life of the Sprinters (or even Pacers)?

They're now based a depot that's learning kit way into the class, and that may explain the initial low availability.

Familiarity does indeed help a lot when learning to fix the minor faults fast.

I'm not sure how many sets Bristol has so far - it's either three or four - which doesn't give much wriggle room.

Pity one or two experienced maintenance staff weren't seconded to depot to help with the transition but I can appreciate that this is easier said than done.

Sounds like I got lucky on my trip tonight then, over to Shirehampton and back. Got a turbo on the way out, noticed the old first class section is still there and much more comfortable than the rest of what looked like 3x2 seating. I assume they are planning on removing the first class section at some point? And got a bog  standard 150 in the way back. No delays thankfully either.

Saw a 3x166 turbo set heading north through Yatton about 1345 this afternoon. I heard they are going to be eventually used on the Weston to B.Parkway services, is that still right? Any provisional dates for transition?

Still the plan ... at an update last month. Planned for soon after the next section of electrics start running in the Thames Valley - which I think's late October. I'm about 700 miles from my handwritten notes, so writing from memory.

Next major transfer of units should be during/after Christmas with more electrics starting in the Thames valley on 2nd January

That's the point at which most remaining Bristol "unit" based services should switch.

They are getting a bit less late now according to my usage but still not as good as the pre Sprinters.  Two months is a long time to get it right for such long lead time.

Been on a couple of trips on the Severn Riviera Limited this week:

On Tuesday I went from Montpelier out to Avonmouth on a 166 - 8 mins late, and water pouring in through the ceiling by the declassified first class area. Judging by the stink of decomposing upholstery this was not a new problem.

On Weds I went in to Temple Meads on a 158 - 11 mins late. I think there were two 158 sets running, so where were the 166s?

Are things really improving?

They are a LOT better (from my biased perspective) than they were ten years ago.

But on a shorter term, for "the West" fleet and on balance, no, they are not improving - they have been getting worse.

We're promised that they will get better, and that steps are being taken to ensure that.  We are told that the problems and reduction in performance is due to the failure of suppliers to GWR to deliver on time - that's Network Rail failing to deliver electrification, meaning that GWR's plans for introducing new(er) trains have been blown out of the water, with the contingency that was built in far exceeded.   The result is that trains that were due to be withdrawn (and so were being run down / allowed to get out of legal hours) have had to be kept in service, or rather put though maintenance at a far higher rate than had been planned, and that trains that were contracted to go elsewhere are having to be released as GWR has no right to keep them.   Current plans are that the new(er) turbo fleet will transfer over at a far quicker rate than was originally planned, and that means that an awful lot more train crews, and maintenance crews too, are going for training at the same time, leading to staff shortages.

OK - that may be a somewhat official / glossy view  :D ... but it's background for thought as to why we're where we are.

To be fair, the Parkway closure probably isn't helping either...

No, and the poor bus services from Filton Abbeywood to Parkway/Yate are a joke.

It is not uncommon to have to wait 20 minutes at Filton Abbey Wood to wait on a bus to get to Parkway. This may not sound serious, but the on-going work at Filton means no car park, no space for secure cycle bays, delays to Metrobus means traffic is still chaotic in the area.

All in, this period of GWRs tenure is a disgrace, caused by DfT and local authrities.

After all these months looks like the service is still plagued with delays and cancellations. The 14.34 from Temple Meads to Avonmouth was so late that, during a long wait at Stapleton Road, it was announced that the service would only go as far as Clifton Down. Then more delay until the service from there had passed us.

Same story with the 20.34 from Temple Meads last Saturday.

Yes, that's my experience. At least one person I know has given up on it for the time being because it is too unreliable.

According to some FOSBR FB posts it's having a serious impact on some commuters using the line to/from Avonmouth/Severn Beach. After all these months of unreliability, I can understand why this is.
The revenue protection chap on the delayed and curtailed service I was on today acknowledged that there have been a lot of problems but felt things were beginning to improve in his experience. It cannot come soon enough for very many people and it struck me that it would really undermine a Portway P&R should reliability problems remain when it opens.

It is to be hoped that the assumption that this is a result of teething troubles is correct. It must take time to get used to a different vehicle, but hopefully everyone is getting there.

Looking back at published traffic stats and graphs over the last 20 years or so, I have spotted correlations between the highs and lows of service and the rises and falls of the graphs.   But that's the "macro" way of putting it.  At an individual level, it's a person who's daily life differs and at the "micro" level it's hundreds and thousands of journeys made or not made.

If you are going to cancel a train from Severn Beach, it is probably a good idea to make sure that the stranded passengers do not include Mhairi Threlfall, Bristol City Council's Cabinet Member for Transport.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/39168387442_96f5ce4522_c.jpg)

Taxis were promised, it seems one arrived 40 minutes later, but there were 12 pax waiting.

Worse still. Mhairi's twitter feed continues:

You generally won't get a taxi replacement unless the wait is to be in excess of an hour...

So in the case of Severn Beach, no taxi if the 07:16 or 17:54 is cancelled, but you may be in "luck" if the 06:00, 07:51, 09:56, 11:54, 13:56, 15:54, 18:45, 21:29 or 22:54 get cancelled.  Of course, real luck is having yout train running  ;D

It makes sense not to provide a taxi is the delay is short, as by the time taxis get there and take you to the next serviced station, you may as well have waited for the train.  However, it looks like it was the 11:54 cancelled today - obvious option would have been to "taxi" to Avonmouth / more efficient option if passengers were for Bristol might have been to shuttle them to Pilning and have a Cardiff - Bristol service stop to pick them up.

They use a contractor to supply taxis, rather than simply placing a call with the most local firm, so they might well a) take a while to reach you (if they can locate a rural station if that's where you are, and b) take you to a nearest railhead with a service that would reach you destination before the taxi would.

It also wouldn't take a cycle, so you'll definitely wait for the next train, however long that would be (or cycle & reclaim your fare)

All well and good if you are stranded at Ealing Broadway or Newport or somewhere similar, but not when Severn Beach is involved. If you don't know it, you turn right at the Middle of Nowhere, and carry on for 5 miles. The trains are only around every two hours, there are two buses per day, and there isn't a local taxi firm. Pilning station isn't far away, but frequencies of services are measured in days, not hours. As for cycling the 13 miles and getting your fare refunded, the fare is only £2.00, or £3.00 return, which would probably go down worse than not offering it in the first place. Plus you can't buy a ticket at the station, so the most anyone would get is £1.50 for half a return.

GWR must find a solution quickly, even if it means suspending the use of Turbos past Avonmouth until the gremlins are fixed. Otherwise, all the work done to get passengers on the train instead of driving will be wasted.

Had you been at Temple Meads at 1516, you would have seen history repeat itself, this time because of "an issue with the train crew", and again at 1713. Hopefully, Cllr Mhairi Trelfall was planning on making her way back to Severn Beach on one of those trains.

At least the 1803 from BRI actually got through, to provide some eventual relief in the form of the 1845 from SVB. Not a good day on the line!

The problems with the service still seem to be recurring. Yesterday's 1603 from Temple Meads left 15 mins late and turned back at Clifton Down. I only use the service on a weekly rather than daily basis but if my experiences over the last 6 months are a fair reflection of that of the daily users then it's still not very jolly with the Turbos. Even worse for Severn Beach customers for whom it's been turning into some sort of Brigadoon Express!

And the whole line is to be shut over all of Easter!.

Why - are they modernising it?

Giggle..

Overall the service has improved immensely since the early days and it's teething troubles with the Turbos.

Problems with the (brand new) 387s on LTV are still being attributed to "teething troubles" after nearly 18 months, so with 25 year old Turbos I wouldn't hold your breath.

I'll just leave this here
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/residents-cut-down-wood-bristol-1129002

It is not teething troubles that are the problem.  It is GWR's seeming inability to solve those teething problems.

There is already a thread on this topic here:-

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19292.0

which was started after I made the above 😉

Apologies.  I usually check the times threads were started in cases like this.

No names, no pack drill...  :-[

Saw my first Turbo on the Gloucester - Bristol line this morning, 9:10 off Yate, Worcester - Weymouth ? service.

Thank you Phile apology not needed but accepted 👍

This is just anecdotal, I know, but after at least 8 months since turbo's arrived on the SB line, no one I know has had a recent return journey on the line without some significant delay/disruption on one leg or both. Yesterday was a good example with a delay that nearly compromised my connection at Temple Meads. The big claims that GWR management make to get their well paid jobs sound hollow here. It feels like a case of carpetbaggers masquerading as railway managers.

It seems to go from one issue to another ... when Temple Meads re-opened on Wednesday morning with the signalling being done from Didcot, it was with severe speed restrictions on all services on the approaches to and with the station.  In this case, my understanding is that GWR were only aware that these restrictions would be required once the station re-opened at a very at point in proceedings.    GWR can be blamed for much - but not this specific situation.   The rail industry as a whole, mind you, is very much to blame for not being properly co-ordinated between (none-GWR) organisations, and it's the rail industry as a whole that the passenger sees / relies on.

There's no doubt that other factors need to be taken into consideration but I was also referring to the situation before the Temple Meads closure. I've been using the line for years and seen the good work done on it to bring it to what it has become. The fruits of these efforts can be undone far more quickly than it takes to achieve them and the reliability, punctuality, cancellation and early turn back issues do still seem to not have been fully addressed after a very long time.

I use the service weekdays between Redland and Stapleton Road to get to and from work. The service is not that reliable atall.  In the mornings, very often my journey is delayed by about 5-10 minutes-ish because of a late running service to Avonmouth/Severn Beach, which it has to wait to pass between Clifton Down and Redland.  This is the problem with this line, it's a single track line with just a few passing points.  If one service is late in one direction, it makes the other service in the other direction late!  And can have a domino effect on further proceeding services for a while. With the other improvements planned in the Bristol area - i.e. four tracking to Filton Abbey Wood, new stations/services at Horfield, North Filton, Henbury - why an earth are there no upcoming plans atall to redouble the Severn Beach line??!! Or at least redouble part of it - i.e. between Narroways Junction and Redland would be helpful.

Also I've encountered a number of times the particular services I intended to board are CANCELLED!  And with the next service after those not being for another 30 to 50 minutes, the next services are too late to wait for to get to work.  So it means having to get the bus instead.  And paying extra to get the bus too, when I have a weekly season ticket!  This has happened three times during the past week! Which leads me onto my query.  If you have a season ticket for the Severn Beach Line and the particular service you want is cancelled, will these be accepted on First Bus services to get you to your destination?  I know that when services are suspended on the Severn Beach line(like they were last Friday for example), it does say on the National Rail and GWR website that tickets will be accepted on relevant bus services.  But what about, if only just the particular service you intended to get is cancelled?

I would be surprised if someone's not suggested it / looked at it. But how do the economic, financial and political case(s) stack up?    Will the Severn Beach line compete with or compliment other plans underway such as Metrobus, MetroWest and the Bristol Underground?   Isn't it part of Metrowest in which case capacity will have been considered?


Routine cross-acceptance of tickets on public transport (not just put in place when one mode / operator is malfunctioning) would be too joined up ...  ;D ;D.   No-brainer, but you would want to have a co-ordinated fare system.  My understanding is that rail fares on "The Beach" are lower than bus fares at present, and indeed the low fares may also be a barrier to major investment in infrastructure such as an extra track as the rate of immediate return might be pretty poor.

Coming in Cornwall ... from Cornwall Live (https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/one-ticket-plan-trains-buses-1496206)

I'm not sure the fares are that much of a factor, are they? If they were, they'd make more of an effort to collect them - yes, that's still an issue!

Re-doubling from CFN to Narroways would presumably allow a 15-minute service interval (or better) between BRI and CFN, once the requadrification from Narroways to Dr Days is complete. If trains alternately terminated at CFN or AVN/SVB, the Severn Beach line would start to look like proper urban mass transit system rather than the slight anachronism that it currently is. But do the powers that be really want that? It's all a question of political will.

The present and continuing troubles on the Beach Line are going to impact on/be impacted by, adding Portway Parkway to the stops on the line.  The recurring "enforced" turn backs at Clifton Grand Central for example, would have an even more disrupting effect than at present because of the likely increase in passengers effected. Speaking of which, it's all gone very quite on the Parkway station construction front. After all the positive press releases, has this been quietly put aside now that the PR benefits have been milked?

If a train can't make it all the way to Avonmouth, is there scope for it tuning back at Portway Parkway in the future, rather than at Clifton Down?

It would be interesting to see if a turn back has been included in the plans but it's so close to Avonmouth that probably would not be worthwhile.

CFN and AVN surely suffice as turnback points: AVN for SNAFU, CFN for FUBAR.

It would help if the line from Narroways Junction to Montpelier Tunnel was doubled, that would get any AVM/SVB service off the current line from BRI to FIT and be held on this section waiting for the single line MTP to CFN, better still redouble the line throughout to Avonmouth from Narroways Junction.

(I'm going to get into trouble with S&TE again here for showing my higgerance, but here goes)

Extending the loop from CFN to Narroways would presumably have the benefit that you'd 'just' have to move the signally thing and the pointy switchy doodah down the track about 2km east of their current location. There's probably getting on for 2km of old FB rail knocking around in Montpelier Cutting; give Gromit an orange jacket and point him in the right direction and before you can say 'Cracking track, Gromit!' Robert would be yer mother's new close personal friend. How hard can it be? If Gromit's not available, maybe we could get the enterprising denizens of Cromwell Road to lay it while NR look the other way...

Grommit's track laying speed was, though, truly exceptional ...

I'll come back to you on that Red Squirrel, with some facts and figures to show you why NR put these things into the 'too difficult box'  ;)

...oh and by the way, I going to use some of your terminology in future posts as it really made me chuckle.  First time I've ever heard a set of points called a 'pointy switchy doodah'  :D

Bringing the second platforms back into use at Redland and Montpelier, and having them EA-compliant, would probably cost more than the PW and signalling I imagine...

They're - what - 500 metres apart and the platforms remaining are currently on different sides of the track.  By comparison, it is 400 metres for someone in a wheelchair to cross from the up platform to the down platform at Bradford-on-Avon. No - no conclusion - just having some ideas which look very silly. And I don't know whether either / both stations would need new footbridges or be able to have independent access on the second side.

I did notice this last week ... and wonder how busy that line is compared to the one at Redland and Montpelier

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/seamills_lc.jpg)

That's why I suggested in my earlier post to just double the stretch from Narroways to the tunnel.

Looks like Sea Mills, if so tis same line.

I suppose Sea Mills has grandfather rights...

Making the disused platform at MTP accessible would be problematic without a very long ramp or a lift. RDA ought to be pretty straightforward, actually, if the council were willing to grant access via Cotham Gardens.

Strangely, or maybe not, MetroBust doesn't really touch the SVB line anywhere. The nearest it comes to it is passing below, on the M32. Atkins, in 2006, did suggest ripping up the line and replacing it with a guided busway. This met with stiff opposition, and they have had to wait until now to prove that guided busways are not necessarily cheap and easy to build. So other than on that existential basis, the SVB line neither complements nor competes with MetroBust. It is part of MetroWest, or at least will be when that happens properly, and should be part of routes to Bath Spa (or possibly even Westbury) and Portishead. The Bristol Underground will remain a pipe-dream until there is absolutely no room on roads for anything to move. The only reason I can see for it being mentioned is to try to persuade the locals that the councils and the new Metro Mayor actually have ideas, and that they can forget how long we have been talking about Portishead and rejoice that we want an Underground instead.


The fares on the SVB must be the best value in terms of pence per mile anywhere in England. The fare was set at £3 return between Severn Beach and Temple Meads back in 2007, when the service was improved to the point of being usable by commuters.( My inner conspiracy theorist still thinks that improvement was done to prove that the line was not economic, and give Atkins their way after all!) A weekly ticket costs £9, which is less than a day's car parking in central Bristol. Between Clifton Down and any station to Temple Meads is a mere £2 return. The fares would cover the cost of the service if they were all collected, but that isn't easy at peak periods, given the large number of passengers, the short distance between stations, and the lack of TVMs or gatelines anywhere but Temple Meads. There have been proposals to raise the fares, but Bristol City Council no longer subsidise the service, and GWR may recognise that any increase could reduce the numbers actually paying for the ride. Extra track would enable extra trains, and so extra passengers, and would probably justify fare rises, but no-one seems to want to do that, at least not until MetroWest rail is up and running, and a more holistic approach can be taken.

The Severn Beach Line has been, for the past decade, its own feasibility study. The success it has had even with limited expenditure on improvements should be used to calculate new figures to judge cost against benefit for urban rail investment, because it doesn't look as though the current formulae fit the job.

That is one idea. One thing which annoys me with getting the 0810 SML - BRI (0754 SVB-BRI) is that it leaves SML on time (in my experience) and runs fine to CFN. The problem then arrises whereby the 0803 BRI-AVN delays the 0810 SML-BRI by a good few minutes. One answer, for the benefit of passengers at RDA might be to extend the double track from CFN to RDA which would, I think, lessen the delay.

Another suggestion for northbound trains would be to bring the loop, and thus both platforms, at SML back into use. If a train is running late from AVN toward CFN but the train from CFN toward AVN is on time then the train from AVN could be held at SML.

Dave

Then the 0803 BRI-AVN could be held on that stretch if running late to allow the 0810 SML-BRI to pass on that re-doubled section.


Sensible suggestion but the holders of the purse strings don't think like that, they only think of their bank accounts, If I scupper that then there's more in the pot for me to take out as a bonus.

Driving down Portway the other day with my brother we had a quick look at the park and ride to see if there were any signs of activity with regards to actually building the station. Apart from a bit that had been somewhat cleared of undergrowth, perhaps for the earlier ground survey, any other signs of activity were conspicuous by their absence.

Is anyone in the know if the Beach Line is running again? Don't want to pootle down to Redland Station later if the signalling issues that scuppered yesterday's services have not been fixed yet.

Normal today so far

Just had an entertaining morning trip MTP - BRI - BPW - BRI - MTP, just for the fun of it. Everything seemed to be running just fine; lots of orange folk about doing this and that, and not a Lambeg drum in sight.

I saw a two-car class 165 at Temple Meads this evening.

Would that have been a recent arrival? I don't think I've seen one in the Bristol area before.

Off-peak, they'd be more suitable for the Severn Beach line than the three-car 166s.

4 (?) recent arrivals.  Had one on TransWilts today

Wikipedia

My first trip on a 165 on the beach was three weeks ago.

Mine was earlier. It seemed a little unsettling, almost like a modern railway. I must have been lucky.

Last couple of days seem to have been less than trouble free on the line. Our journey to Severn Beach yesterday was not delayed but the late running earlier service stopped and turned back at Clifton after letting the on time later service through. Then today more delays journeying in the opposite direction although this was in part due to a trespass incident.
It's been more than a year since this started with the introduction of the new Turbos on the line and it still feels like the service reliability is some considerable way short of the level it was at beforehand.

The "Avonmouth Arrow".  Left Temple Meads at 07:04, 17 minutes to Avonmouth, arriving there 07:21. Schedule 25 minutes (working timetable) or 28 minutes (public timetable).

An interesting study of the time taken for a station stop - works out on "The Beach" as one minute per stop.

"Avonmouth Arrow", like it a lot. Don't think the non stopping service will catch on though.

A follower of mine was on it and tells me it was an interesting ride !

You are the Messiah?

GWR appear to be phasing in the upcoming three-week closure of the Severn Beach Line by using smaller trains and running them later. Perhaps it's a form of frogboiling; they hope we won't notice when the service stops altogether.

Here's this morning's scene at Clifton Down. You wouldn't think you could get that many people on to a 2-car 150, would you? Well to be honest it did require a certain amount of co-operation on the part of the passengers. I would have taken a photo inside the train, but I couldn't move my arms.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Clifton_Down_Station%2C_Bristol.jpg/512px-Clifton_Down_Station%2C_Bristol.jpg)

I thinks we could gets that number on a 153 in Wiltshire. 153 is the capacity, right?

I travelled from Salisbury to Westbury on Tuesday - around 18:40 on a Portsmouth to Carifff train - 150126. Don't think it's just The Beach that's been downsized this week!

GWR running a nostalgia service. Reminding folk what it used to be like on the Beach Line.

Just be thankful they didn't go further back into the nostalgia. You could have had a Class 143. I rode on one yesterday down Devon way. They're still bloody awful things.

Or, to quote dear old Fred Wedlock, "I died just now, but I can't fall down!"

All very normal at Montpelier this morning... what's the fuss about?

Is my memory playing tricks on me, or did there used to be a role of 'conductor-guard' on the Severn Beach line? If so, does anyone know when this role was abolished?

Reminds me of Shirehampton in January 2013.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7845/46446558744_3e31bddffe_c.jpg)

Depends on the journey, I suppose. Redland to Montpelier, maybe. But Stapleton Road...

What you don't want in Bristol to give you a 20 minute service, we'll welcome in Wiltshire to give us an hourly one  ;D ;D

i would have thought that they were ideal Heritage Line Stock. This is what it was like in the 21st  century, people travelled on them everyday.

For a 20 minutely service on the Beach Line I'd be happy with un-refurbished ones still with their Arriva Trans Wales liveries.

Absolutely!

If you set out to design a train for the Severn Beach line, the result would not look much like a 166.

On a recent trip to Penarth, I was rather envious of their 4-car Pacers running every 15 minutes; I'd be more than happy to swap!

Currently it's not quite as simple as that though; a unit that goes up and down the Clifton Extension often carries on to Great Malvern or down to Taunton, routes for which they are actually suitable! Maybe this requirement may diminish when there are more suburban services round Bristol and we can find some stock that's a better fit for this purpose, though I'm not sure what that might be or where it might come from.

I'd prefer a pacer over a voyager any day of the week  :-*

Can we have a "laugh" button please grahame?  ;D

I understand the argument there very well. I have never been a fan of Voyagers, which I see as the typical compromise between one thing and another that ended up satisfying neither. I wouldn't like to do my last Voyager trip (Tiverton Parkway to Nottingham) on a pacer though. At least the Voyager has a toilet, even if it is all too evident on occasions.

Indeed. The resultant blueprint might include features somewhat more akin to a Pacer than a 166. Will there be a class more ideally suited to Metrowest by the time it's up and running more widely? It looks like it won't be DTrain as GWR don't seem impressed with them so far.

According to FoSBR's number cruncher, this is no longer true. Prior to to December 2019, they diagrammed things so as to give units a good run from time to time; to clear their tubes as it were. Apparently since the timetable changes they just plod up and down to the Beach or Avonmouth.

Wot I thought too, although an expert with access to diagrams could confirm or deny that. In the olden days, I used to catch one all the way from Taunton to Redland Parkway, which took longer than some holidays I have been on. However, a bit of RTT looking up shows that the 0553 from SVB hitches up to a train from Westbury and continues to Cardiff Central weekdays. The 1942 from SVB on Saturday then goes on to Worcester Shrub Hill - these are not timetabled as through trains from SVB. Sunday has one train from Exeter St Davids, two from Taunton and one from Weston super Mare, with two returns from Severn Beach to Taunton, but I think that's about it.

The ideal thing would be electric because of the short distances between stations. Not much hope at present, but it will happen one day. 30 minutes from Avonmouth is shorter than some tram journeys in Manchester, or indeed Blackpool, where the whole Starr Gate to Fleetwood Ferry is timed for 58 minutes. Few people do the whole length on a daily basis, though, unlike Avonmouth to Temple Meads. Passenger numbers are too great for trams anyway, unless the line is doubled and a 10 minute service put on.

Passenger numbers on "The Beach" - though perhaps not all the way to Severn Beach itself - are said to be doing rather well of late; excellent (almost unbelievable) figures I think I heard.  Is this due to a big increase in riders, or a big increase in revenue collection?   How long before the 3 car trains become 5 car?

Yes, we seem to be way off topic!

Staying resolutely off-topic, as we have been since the second or third post: [Now fixed by merging topics - RS]

Latest figures are here. The yellow bars are the ones to watch. What they show is steady, entirely believable growth with a predictable dip in 2018 when the line was shut for 3 weeks and many weekends:

(https://fosbr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/stats_sbl_202001-scaled.jpg)

We don't have passenger survey results any more, but these figures are without doubt an underestimate.

Severnside CRP say:


What SCRP don't say is that revenue collection is at times very poor. How many journeys go uncounted because of this is open to conjecture, but in my estimation it must be a significant number.

https://www.severnside-rail.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/13206-Severnside-Progress-Report-2020-LR.pdf

Here's a crazy suggestion for Bristol, why not bring in a metro bus service   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Any regular user of the Severn Riviera Express (and I count myself as one) will know that it is a significant number.  I'll carry out bit of unscientific research later today as I'm having a quick pootle to town (Redland to Temple Meads and back) and I'll post on this thread if I see any missed revenue in my carriage.

Revenue collection data must skew figures for individual stations even more than for the whole line. The ticket the machine prints for me always says Clifton Down, although I ask for Redland. Probably this doesn't matter but it would be a shame if it did.

Caught the delayed (by 11 mins) 12.50 from Redland.  There was a Revenue Protection lady on the platform waiting for the same service so she had plenty of time to dispense tickets to everyone waiting. There was another RP chap already on the train so it looked like no missed tickets.
Returned on the delayed (by 7 minutes) 16.36 from Temple Meads.  Rather a different story.  RP is carried out in a more "passive" manner with the RP person unmoving from the next carriage down and simply opening the doors and conjunction with another person at the head of the train.  Plenty of opportunity to free hop and plenty of those opportunities taken.... largely because of no one coming to sell a ticket rather than blatant avoidance.
So yes, looks like a lot of revenue leakage still but this would add to the argument that the latest figures are about real passenger growth rather than simply improved revenue protection.

Your experience, in terms of both delays and patchy revenue collection/protection, matches mine.

and not for the "First" time!

Source: Jack Lopresti, MP for Filton and Bradley Stoke, Hansard 13 Feb 2020 (https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-02-13/debates/D9EDEDFE-1305-4F7B-85E2-5DEC1BE1674C/FebruaryAdjournment)

Surprised he didn't mention P*****g just a mile down the road. Would make a much quicker park and ride journey into Bristol.

Unless parking or traffic in Avonmouth is really difficult I can't see why you would cross the bridge and then change onto a train for the last few miles.

Apologies, just seen Red Squirrel's other post, and don't seem to have the facility to edit out my first comment, which was covered off in the second post. 

I should probably have linked the three sections of his speech that I've quoted, but it was going to get rather complicated...  :)

There should be a "modify" button at the top right of your post allowing edits.  (Should be there on your own posts until messages are 'archived' - which is a few days.)  No facility to remove a post completely if you want to do that; if you change the text to something like "content deleted" it flags up to the moderators they should tidy up, which often involves little changes to other member's posts before and after to retain thread context into the future.

Thanks. I was aware of that, as I've had to use it before. But for some strange reason it wasn't there.  As soon as I posted the second message both then did give me the option to edit, but as I couldn't delete the second message decided to leave them both there. Curiouser and curiouser as Alice once said.

I think both your replies were useful, and led me to clarify. Stet.

Go on, away with you! I'll get your coat...

Similar to my experience. Undoubtedly this is a problem across the entire network - I used to witness the same when I lived in SE-England and saw the same between Parson Street and Keynsham yesterday. 

Message from Jane Jones of GWR:

The West of England 10 Year Rail Delivery Plan for Investment: 2020 - 2030 (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=24296.msg297475#msg297475) has the following:


This is listed as 'low deliverability' with a timescale of 10-25 years.

It took me a moment to understand 'Line doubling between Montpelier and Filton', but presumably they mean that the whole of the 'Beach line would be doubled except for the Narroways - Montpelier section. Interesting!