Great Western Coffee Shop

In the Filton Bank four-tracking thread, John R posted a link to this: http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/bristol-tm-to-severn-beach.html in which I found a reference to workmen's trains.

What were these workmen's services? Presumably they served Rolls Royce and whatever the company on the Airbus site was called at that time (British Aerospace? Bristol Aircraft Company?). But how did they work? Were they arranged between BR and large employers, with the employer saying "We have a thousand employees working these shift times, lots of them come in from central Bristol. Please put a train on to take them from Temple Meads"? Who paid for them: employers or the employees using them? If they provided travel at the employer's expense or at a staff discount, how (apart from not being advertised) did BR and/or the employer stop general passengers using them? And how common were they?

Thanks!

Disused Stations has a slightly longer version (http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/n/north_filton/) which says this (inter alia):

For an unadvertised part route I imagine an announcement like "All change here. This train will serve only a private company platform after this."

It's pissible they were unadvertised (except by the relevant employers to their staff) stops on normal passenger service trains.  

Edit: Ah, what stuving said!

Thanks.  :)

It's pissible that bnm meant to say possible

Briefly pissessed by Officer Crabtree it seems.

Different - but Workmen's trains a hundred years ago in the London area were services that carried people in to London very early - before the peak.  They were intended to level out the load, and / or encourage people on lower paid jobs to live further out. 

I doubt that TOCs would feel it worthwhile running such a scheme to socially engineer today, as it wouldn't be worth them social engineering for a 7 to 10 year franchise, and I doubt whether the government would specify it. But you could probably achieve the same effect by making off peak tickets / off peak seasons valid on trains scheduled to arrive at their London terminal by 07:15.

Workmen's trains operated in several other areas in the original GWR area (and some into BR WR days). Services to South Wales collieries, to Plymouth dockyards, and into Swindon for the works for example. Some were on what were otherwise just freight lines into the facilities.

Good moaning Justin.

Not sure, but the Morris works at Cowley were another example.

Remember that back in the day the railways had an obligation to carry pretty much anything in terms of freight at regulated prices, and with passengers it was quite normal to have special charter trains for excursions, children going back to boarding schools etc. I remember a school trip in the early 1980s where we went from Sheffield to York on a school trip and had a whole carriage reserved for us.

I believe that in Sheffield some of the works had their own tram sidings, for example Hadfields, which was one of the big steel works.

Lympstone Commando is possibly in this category, although you would need to be a braver man than me to try calling a Royal Marine a workman.

It could be argued the 17:40 from Maidenhead is a "workers train" it is specially targeted at that time for one of the offices in Maidenhead to allow their staff to commute to and from London

When I and a large contingent used to commute to school in the 1960's from Weymouth to Dorchester (West initially, later South) we were provided with a special train, not shown in the public timetable. This was both morning and afternoon and involved a number of light engine moves Weymouth to Dorchester and v/v. So possibly not cost effective even then. Naturally these services were mainly steam hauled until the end of Southern steam and became typically Class 33 duties later.

Anyone in the know could catch this service at the relevant stops.  Various forms of this service prevailed until the early 1970's when school re-organisation reduced the travel demand. 

Who paid for that, WSW? Did you get a ticket in the normal way (or a season ticket I suppose as it was a commute) or was it free to anyone in school uniform? Or something else? I know that one school in Bristol has an arrangement currently where pupils get subsidised seasons and just have to show their school ID, no need to buy a ticket. But I'm guessing you didn't have actual school ID cards back then.  :D

We were provided with a Scholar Season Ticket. Free to us, but paid for by the Local Education Authority, namely Dorset CC. The ticket even had a price on it, perhaps something like 17/6 per term! We used to have the ritual of collecting the season from Weymouth Station on the day before each term. The season could also be used on any normal service which gave us great flexibility to travel when we wished and for "leisure" pursuits as well.

This gave us a great advantage over the girls school in Dorchester where the transport was by dedicated coaches only.

I doubt much of the ticketing scenario applies today. However, if the LEA is under an obligation to provide transport then something similar may apply.  This used to be over 3 miles and then rail might be chosen as the provider, if acceptable to the LEA.

I'm not 100% certain but I don't think LEAs are under any obligation to provide transport now.

There is an obligation over 3 miles on someone - in our parts it's Wiltshire Council but the wear so many hats I'm not sure which hat brings the obligation

I haven't heard of anything like that in Bristol. Mind you, Bmblbzzz junior could walk to school in five minutes – if he really wanted to!

The obligation is only for children who have to travel over 3 miles - and "have to" are operative words.   If Mummy and Daddy choose to sent Nigel and Aurelia to the posh school in the next town, turning their noses up at the school in special measures just up the road, Mummy and Daddy have to pay for (and arrange for) travel.  I would think that in Bristol, there's going to be schools within 3 miles of pretty much everyone.

On the other hand if there are no places at the school that is 5 mins walk and the LEA can only provide a place 4 miles away then they have to provide transport.

There are statutory 'walking distance'  obligations on all LEAs. Above which free transport must be provided.

For under 8 year olds If the walking distance is more than 2 miles to the nearest suitable school. 

For 8-11 year olds it's 2-6 miles if they are from low income families.
 
For aged 8 and over it is 3 miles.

If there is no safe walking route then free transport must be provided regardless of distance.

A Suitable School is one that is publicly funded, providing education appropriate to the age, ability and aptitude of the child. Any disabilities are also considered.

One contentious imbalance in the legislation is provision of free transport on religious grounds. That can be provided for 2-15 miles for pupils to attend a preferred publicly funded school dedicated to a particular faith. Even if there are closer secular schools. 

Interesting. When we arrived in Bristol, he was 6. So we applied for a school place and as it was middle of the school year, the nearest was quite a distance away. Definitely more than 2 miles. For a short time, he commuted to school on the Severn Beach line! The 2 mile walking distance is mentioned when you apply for a school place, but there is no mention of funding for transport. I wonder if in this case it would have been payment for train tickets or if there would have been some special school bus? Never seen such a creature in Bristol, other than taking kids on school trips and to sports fields and so on. And if train tickets, would they also pay for an accompanying adult? Seems unlikely, but you can't expect a child that young to go on a train on their own. Anyway, he was only there for a couple of weeks when a place came up at a much nearer school, so it's of academic(!) interest only now.