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Journey by Journey => Bristol (WECA) Commuters => Topic started by: grahame on August 17, 2017, 15:13:47



Title: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2017, 15:13:47
From UK Business Insider (http://uk.businessinsider.com/london-underground-better-than-nyc-subway-2017-8/#after-making-a-few-quick-east-west-trips-on-the-underground-i-decided-to-put-it-to-the-test-by-going-some-distance-i-was-going-to-visit-a-friend-in-a-northern-part-of-london-this-was-a-bit-of-a-trip-about-five-miles-through-the-city-center-or-a-40-minute-drive-according-to-google-maps-1)

Quote
I rode London's famous Underground system for a week — and I saw why New York's subway will never catch up

It was the summer of hell, and I needed some relief.

To take a break from the swamp that New York City becomes in the summer, I took a week-long trip to the sunny paradise of London for a well-deserved vacation.

OK, fine. London may not be that sunny, but it is a transportation paradise. When comparing it to New York, anyway, London seems like a city that actually cares about its public transportation. Its trains run often, its buses have a priority network, and there's even a congestion charge for private cars driving in the city center, which feeds money back into the transportation projects.

Things are not so great in New York right now. The state and city are in an interminable battle to escape blame for the crumbling infrastructure that millions of New Yorkers rely on every day. But some fixes being suggested now, like congestion charging, have already been at work in London for years.

I decided my vacation would be a good opportunity to see how London's public transportation system works. Not once did I get stuck in a tunnel or even have to wait longer than four minutes for a train — and with countdown clocks at nearly every station, I always knew when the next train was coming. I also never had to detour because of track work, which is done overnight in London.

I think it's best summarized in the status update you hear over the PA system every so often in the Underground: "There is good service on all London Underground lines." You definitely don't hear that every day in New York.

While New York often uses the age of its system as an excuse, I saw how London overcame its ancient architecture — some of which dates back to the mid-19th century — to build a modern transportation system. Honestly, it felt strange to be in a city where the denizens didn't constantly gripe about how long it took to get wherever they were.

[continues]

So ... how would you compare other UK cities ??


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Tim on August 17, 2017, 17:11:51
The NY subway has one great advantage over the Tube in that it is air conditioned.  I would be more inclined to call the Tube a "swamp" than the Subway.

The NY network does however is filthy and has an uncared for look about it which the Tube doesn't these days.  But in terms of getting you where you need to go at an affordable price they are both very good. 


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: ChrisB on August 17, 2017, 17:54:30
The subway has double tracks allowing during-the-day maintenance...big bonus


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Tim on August 17, 2017, 17:59:06
The subway has double tracks allowing during-the-day maintenance...big bonus

and 24 hour service


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: ChrisB on August 17, 2017, 18:09:17
....because its got double tracks and can run & maintain at once


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2017, 19:27:43
....because its got double tracks and can run & maintain at once

......and it doesn't have the RMT.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: stuving on August 17, 2017, 19:39:42
I think this is mainly a reaction to a recent run of incidents and accidents. For example, just looking for train failures and derailments that lead to evacuation in tunnels, there were two in July (one due to an emergency break application that cause a derailment and shorted the third rail causing a fire - or at least a lot of smoke), one in June, another in May ...


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 17, 2017, 20:08:49
Although we've had two minor incidents at Oxford Circus and Holborn in the past week.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: chrisr_75 on August 17, 2017, 23:58:07
It's also not that often you hear the 'good service on all London Underground lines' message either. There's ongoing weeknight closures in the Met, problems with the night tube, Overground always seems to have a section closed somewhere or other. And the recent incidents as already mentioned.

I suspect if the author had stayed for, maybe a month or two, the novelty would've worn off and his or her rose tinted spectacles would be letting through a lot more light...!


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2017, 11:16:05
Interesting to hear that perhaps familiarity does indeed breed contempt and that when you look at something as an 'outsider' with a fresh pair of eyes (even if behind rose tinted spectacles) our railway systems actually often compare very well with elsewhere.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 18, 2017, 12:54:48
Yes, but as far as we know he didn't try GWR!  ;)


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: trainer on August 18, 2017, 14:40:57
Arriving at the foot of the stairs (not escalator) in a central London Underground station (can't recall which one - possibly Paddington (PAD)) I saw a man from the USA with a great deal of luggage and a frown looking up the steps.  'Is their no elevator?' he asked.  'I'm afraid this is London: only stairs,'  I wearily explained as I picked up my own suitcase.  He was not impressed.  He had travelled through St Pancras International (STP) so the first impression had been good.  Then came the reality. I'm sure things are much better now but last time I travelled the same way (June) I couldn't even get a through train to PAD from STP (changing at Baker Street essential) and with luggage it can be a bit of an ordeal to navigate the system -  and worse of course for those who need step-free access.

The complexity of bus stops (and bus station) in Bristol to get to where you want to go is worse for the visitor I think. Yesterday (17.08.17) I tried to explain to two senior visitors to Bristol how to get to the Suspension Bridge or the SS Great Britain by bus having arrived in the Bus Station.  They decided the Broadmead shops would suffice after it became obvious that it wasn't straightforward to change and although I knew the bus route numbers I couldn't remember where the stops were.  Clearly not unique to Bristol (try finding a specific bus in Birmingham - or even a train to Stratford-upon-Avon if arriving at New Street) but we are not there yet in easy access public transport and cross (or even inter-) mode travel.

Having said all that, having looked at some US based travelogues they think the British system is good.  I suppose it all depends where you stand as to what you see.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 19, 2017, 17:47:11
Some Londoners don't agree (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/londoners-baffled-after-new-york-writer-dennis-green-brands-the-tube-transport-paradise-a3615466.html)


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: trainer on August 20, 2017, 14:12:52
The current editor of the Evening Standard may have had an opportunity to increase funding to the Underground to help deal with some of the deficiencies in a previous job.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2017, 15:08:14
It's also not that often you hear the 'good service on all London Underground lines' message either. There's ongoing weeknight closures in the Met, problems with the night tube, Overground always seems to have a section closed somewhere or other. And the recent incidents as already mentioned.

I suspect if the author had stayed for, maybe a month or two, the novelty would've worn off and his or her rose tinted spectacles would be letting through a lot more light...!

I'd have to challenge that - the Underground's reliability and performance is far ahead of where it was 10/15/20 years ago, and I'm quite familiar with the "Good service on all lines" message as I head into London every morning.

Obviously if you have data that demonstrates the opposite I'm happy to review that position

If only we could say the same of GWR.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2017, 15:43:50
It's only far ahead of what was a terrible benchmark.  As you say, much improved though, and likely to get better as various ancient signalling is replaced over the coming years.  Though we thought that with NR's recent signalling 'upgrades' on the GWML!

I can heartily recommend 'Inside The Tube: Going Underground', a four part series on Channel 5 (now available on catch-up).  I thought I knew most of the quirks and idiosyncrasies of the tube, but several gems I'd never heard of were covered and the guy presenting it was very good I thought.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: ChrisB on September 02, 2017, 20:45:34
@trainor....seriously? You can getca direct tube from St Pancras to PAD....the Circle or H&C line to Hammersmith!

Which drops you at platforms fully equipped with lifts to ground level....and (English) escalators & lifts back down into the station.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: grahame on September 02, 2017, 21:24:58
@trainor....seriously? You can getca direct tube from St Pancras to PAD....the Circle or H&C line to Hammersmith!

Which drops you at platforms fully equipped with lifts to ground level....and (English) escalators & lifts back down into the station.

When Circle was circle, arriving from KX at PAD on a Circle train used to face you with steps.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: ChrisB on September 04, 2017, 08:15:36
indeed, so showing the vast improvements made in the earlier post, if trainor was referring to that long ago.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 04, 2017, 09:53:08
So after two pages of replies in which almost no mention is made of it, I think we have an answer to the question "London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?":

Nowhere.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: trainer on September 04, 2017, 22:58:12
@trainor....seriously? You can getca direct tube from St Pancras to PAD....the Circle or H&C line to Hammersmith!

Seriously. I believe there were engineering works preventing a through service to PAD along the northern section of the Circle/H&C entailing an indirect journey. I agree the completed H&C station at PAD is a vast improvement.  I try not to make things up on here but my memory can play tricks on details and times and in my original post I was not definite that it was in fact Paddington.

Sadly I have to agree with Red Squirrel's conclusion on the substance of the thread title.


Title: Re: London better than New York for transportation - but where is Bristol?
Post by: John R on September 04, 2017, 23:03:59
If the journey was in June as you suggested it might have been then it was likely the prolonged closure of part of the Circle/H&C due to the Grenfell Tower fire. That meant no through services from Paddington beyond Edgware Road.



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