Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => London to the West => Topic started by: bradshaw on August 20, 2017, 15:58:50



Title: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: bradshaw on August 20, 2017, 15:58:50
The second such event, this time at Paddington. 1C81 PAD to PNZ rear car derailed as train was leaving.

Notified by OTT on twitter and shown by OpenTrainTimes  maphttp://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/d3_1#T_PADTON

picture here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: BBM on August 20, 2017, 15:59:38
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544)

Quote
Train derails as it departs London Paddington station

Passengers had to be evacuated from a train after it derailed while leaving Paddington station in London.

The rear power car of the Great Western Railway train partially left the track as it departed for Penzance in Cornwall shortly before midday.

A spokesperson for the rail firm said it was "travelling at extremely low speed" and no injuries were reported.

Platforms one and two are currently out of use while Network Rail investigates what happened.

The passengers on board were transferred to another service and other trains leaving the station are running to their original timetables.

It is the second time a train has derailed at a major London station in a week.

On Tuesday, a South West train left tracks after it hit a barrier train at Waterloo station causing major disruption for commuters.

On the same day, a Great Northern train crashed into buffers as it arrived at King's Cross.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2017, 16:42:30
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544)

Quote
Train derails as it departs London Paddington station

Passengers had to be evacuated from a train after it derailed while leaving Paddington station in London.

The rear power car of the Great Western Railway train partially left the track as it departed for Penzance in Cornwall shortly before midday.

A spokesperson for the rail firm said it was "travelling at extremely low speed" and no injuries were reported.

Platforms one and two are currently out of use while Network Rail investigates what happened.

The passengers on board were transferred to another service and other trains leaving the station are running to their original timetables.

It is the second time a train has derailed at a major London station in a week.

On Tuesday, a South West train left tracks after it hit a barrier train at Waterloo station causing major disruption for commuters.

On the same day, a Great Northern train crashed into buffers as it arrived at King's Cross.

Well, they say these things come in threes.......Waterloo, Kings X and now Paddington.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 20, 2017, 17:02:31
Seems an odd place to derail


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: a-driver on August 20, 2017, 17:05:21
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40991544)

Quote
Train derails as it departs London Paddington station

Passengers had to be evacuated from a train after it derailed while leaving Paddington station in London.

The rear power car of the Great Western Railway train partially left the track as it departed for Penzance in Cornwall shortly before midday.

A spokesperson for the rail firm said it was "travelling at extremely low speed" and no injuries were reported.

Platforms one and two are currently out of use while Network Rail investigates what happened.

The passengers on board were transferred to another service and other trains leaving the station are running to their original timetables.

It is the second time a train has derailed at a major London station in a week.

On Tuesday, a South West train left tracks after it hit a barrier train at Waterloo station causing major disruption for commuters.

On the same day, a Great Northern train crashed into buffers as it arrived at King's Cross.

Well, they say these things come in threes.......Waterloo, Kings X and now Paddington.

Three plus derailments at Ely, Daventry and Neville Hill


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 20, 2017, 17:06:17
Not the first derailment of this type in the platforms.  Probably caused by road-spread.  Look at the number of tie-bars holding the rails to gauge ::) :P


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: stuving on August 20, 2017, 17:14:46
Not the first derailment of this type in the platforms.  Probably caused by road-spread.  Look at the number of tie-bars holding the rails to gauge ::) :P

Or, in this case, not.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: JayMac on August 20, 2017, 17:41:58
Oops.

Hopefully track defect and not power car. Any axle/wheelset issues could see fleet checks needed.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on August 20, 2017, 17:52:53
I know that road spread has been mooted as the probable cause, but it’s interesting that the photo of 43188 on WNXX shows the non-platform side wheel of axle 4 (the only derailed axle) outside the running rail. 

Maybe the platform side wheel dropped down because of the road spread, and then as the axle travelled forwards towards undamaged (ie correct gauge) track the platform side wheel, wedged inside the rail, forced the axle over causing the non-platform side wheel to climb over the rail. This takes a fair bit of force - which is why trains usually stay on the track of course.

Interesting that axle 3 stayed on the rails.  We’ll see what the investigation reveals in due course.



Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 20, 2017, 19:38:04
Bit of moderator intervention required as we are already discussing this derailment here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14689.2115 and here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18610.0   ::)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2017, 19:42:37
Bit of moderator intervention required as we are already discussing this derailment here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14689.2115 and here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18610.0   ::)

You caught me mid-merge S&T.   ;D  Now done.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: bobm on August 21, 2017, 08:34:47
A couple of photos from Twitter user frazzle.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/188pad1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/188pad2.jpg)

The leading power car and eight coaches were removed early evening and 43188 was re-railed and taken back to Old Oak Common about 23:00.  Platform 2 remains closed but Platform 1 is open barring the occasional closure if work on the track in Platform 2 requires it.

43188 in happier times at Carmarthen earlier this month.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/43188.jpg)



Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: martyjon on August 21, 2017, 08:54:42
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2017, 09:28:14
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.
Network Rail photographer?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 21, 2017, 09:30:09
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.
Network Rail photographer?

UN observer?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: stuving on August 21, 2017, 09:59:42
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.
Network Rail photographer?

UN observer?
Do you mean someone unobservant? (Like 'cos he's looking down at some gadget?)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2017, 11:07:48
I wonder if it was the guard who pulled the communition chord to stop the train?  Otherwise the driver might not have realised anything was wrong and there would be no quick way of informing them.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: JayMac on August 21, 2017, 11:19:49
I strongly suspect the TM, or both TM and dispatcher, quickly did the necessary procedure to stop the train. TM would normally be window hanging at rear most carriage door on departure, right next to the errant power car.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2017, 11:26:21
Indeed I expect you're right.  In the case of a DOO or DCO operated service that might well not be so easy to do.  An example where having a guard on the train provides an additional level of safety?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: broadgage on August 21, 2017, 12:31:14
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.
Network Rail photographer?

UN observer?

Pigeon welfare officer ? (prevention of sudden death by explosion dept.)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Electric train on August 21, 2017, 13:45:59
The guy on the platform with the backpack wearing the blue safety helmet doesn't look to me if he is wearing safety boots.
Network Rail photographer?

UN observer?


Blue hard hat normally indicates someone who does not hold Personal Track Safety (PTS) or is still under observation.   The other cardinal sin is the rucksack obscuring the HiVi.


I wonder if it was the guard who pulled the communition chord to stop the train?  Otherwise the driver might not have realised anything was wrong and there would be no quick way of informing them.

The Drive would also be aware something was not right but I expect it was the Guard / Train Manager who stopped the train.
Pigeon welfare officer ? (prevention of sudden death by explosion dept.)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: broadgage on August 21, 2017, 14:05:28
I doubt that either Hi Viz or safety boots are required if the person pictured remains on the platform.
AFAIK platform 1 remains open and most of the passengers wont be wearing PPE.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2017, 15:01:50
The Drive would also be aware something was not right but I expect it was the Guard / Train Manager who stopped the train.

Quite possibly, but not guaranteed as if one bogie is off but upright and both power cars are powering up the difference in acceleration would be minimal, the driver would probably feel the train snatch a little bit, but that's not uncommon when departing with a HST.   Obviously if the brake pipe was broken then an emergency brake application would be made, but the train could have potentially travelled quite a bit further before being stopped.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: stuving on August 21, 2017, 15:40:45
You can buy a sensor that detects a derailment, and applies the brakes, from Knorr-Bremse (the EDT101 derailment detector). It's clearly aimed at the American market, with its huge length of track that's very rough (by our standards) but still used for freight.

And Micro-Epsilon say they are making bogie-mounted sensors for high-speed trains (in Saudi Arabia) to monitor ride quality so as to prevent derailment (by prompting inspection or maintenance). They even claim it's compulsory in the EU for high-speed trains, though I can find no evidence this is true.

I'm sure such a sensor (basically an accelerometer) could reliably detect an actual derailment, even at very low speed, if you wanted it to. However, it isn't one of the numerous infrastructure-monitoring features required of IEP.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 21, 2017, 16:48:53
Indeed I expect you're right.  In the case of a DOO or DCO operated service that might well not be so easy to do.  An example where having a guard on the train provides an additional level of safety?
What is DCO?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2017, 16:53:54
Driver Controlled Operation.  That, along with DOO means the driver is solely responsible for despatch.  Most people refer to DCO when there is guaranteed to be a second member of staff on the train (who plays no role in despatch), and DOO when there is not, though the two terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: chrisr_75 on August 21, 2017, 17:02:50
You can buy a sensor that detects a derailment, and applies the brakes, from Knorr-Bremse (the EDT101 derailment detector). It's clearly aimed at the American market, with its huge length of track that's very rough (by our standards) but still used for freight.


I'm sure it has something to do with the length of the trains (currently up to 4200m in Canada) and the motive power available to the driver/engineer ad the fact there are often remotely operated locomotives distributed throughout the train. These factors would make it nigh on impossible to detect a bogie off from the front of the train until a potentially huge amount of damage had occurred, unless you had some sensors assisting.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: onthecushions on August 21, 2017, 18:02:54
Not the first derailment of this type in the platforms.  Probably caused by road-spread.  Look at the number of tie-bars holding the rails to gauge ::) :P

IIRC, the rails here are laid, not too long ago, on longitudinal sleepers, Brunel style, hence the tie-bars, with a brick lined sump in-between, now with plastic sheeting. The other type of Sleeper also visits these platform roads, dropping lots of unmentionable solids and fluids. Even vacuum treated timbers might succumb early to this horrid brew.

I feel sorry for the re-railing orange jobs having to work (and lie down) amongst the brown jobs. All credit to them.

OTC


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: bobm on August 21, 2017, 18:25:54
The Night Rivera sleeper has retention toilets.  It's the HSTs which are the problem. 


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 21, 2017, 22:22:19
Driver Controlled Operation.  That, along with DOO means the driver is solely responsible for despatch.  Most people refer to DCO when there is guaranteed to be a second member of staff on the train (who plays no role in despatch), and DOO when there is not, though the two terms are sometimes used to mean the same thing.
Thanks. I was aware of DOO but not DCO.

Admin: Perhaps these terms could be added to the Acronyms list?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: onthecushions on August 22, 2017, 16:31:44
The Night Rivera sleeper has retention toilets.  It's the HSTs which are the problem. 

Of course. Do the day coaches/saloons have them as well?

OTC


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Electric train on August 22, 2017, 22:03:37
I doubt that either Hi Viz or safety boots are required if the person pictured remains on the platform.
AFAIK platform 1 remains open and most of the passengers wont be wearing PPE.

If he was "at work" then orange PPE is required and if working within 1.2 m of the platform edge then PTS and a COSS is required, however in this case the platforms would have been be under possession an ES and PICOP would also be needed. Network Rail would have supplied the track safe system of work for the break down (re-railing) team


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: a-driver on August 23, 2017, 04:32:26
I doubt that either Hi Viz or safety boots are required if the person pictured remains on the platform.
AFAIK platform 1 remains open and most of the passengers wont be wearing PPE.

If he was "at work" then orange PPE is required and if working within 1.2 m of the platform edge then PTS and a COSS is required, however in this case the platforms would have been be under possession an ES and PICOP would also be needed. Network Rail would have supplied the track safe system of work for the break down (re-railing) team

That guy may have been part of the Channel 5 film crew filming Paddington: Inside the Railway. They've been hanging around for a few weeks now and been present when the service has gone into meltdown.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Surrey 455 on August 23, 2017, 20:37:11
That guy may have been part of the Channel 5 film crew filming Paddington: Inside the Railway. They've been hanging around for a few weeks now and been present when the service has gone into meltdown.

Will the audience get to see what the normal timetabled service should look like? ;D


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: TonyK on August 24, 2017, 08:15:49
Thanks. I was aware of DOO but not DCO.

Admin: Perhaps these terms could be added to the Acronyms list?

Done!


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: hertzsprung on August 24, 2017, 15:16:32
I saw new track being laid immediately outside Paddington station on the Platform 1 side today. I was curious, is that in response to the derailment or was the work planned in any case?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 24, 2017, 15:21:09
The Royal Oak sidings look like they are being renewed.

At first, I wondered if they were going to put in Platform 0.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 24, 2017, 15:49:03
The Royal Oak Sidings are being relayed to allow IET sets to stable there between turns.  A new S&C (crossover) connection is being provided so that the sidings can be accessed from Platforms Nos.1 to 5 inclusive, rather than just Platform No.1 at present.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: hertzsprung on August 24, 2017, 16:35:30
Thanks for the info.  Is S&C another one for the acronym page? :)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 24, 2017, 16:36:57
Good to hear.  IIRC there used to be access to more of the platforms until the layout was rationalised?


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 24, 2017, 17:29:50
Thanks for the info.  Is S&C another one for the acronym page? :)

Possibly, yes, but can you ask CfN nicely as I have already asked him to do some other changes today and I don't wish to entail the 'Wrath of CfN' twice in the same day...... ::) :P ;)

.....just out of interest as well, older hands used to also refer to S&C (Switch and Crossings) as P&C (Points and Crossings), so thats two new acronyms in one day.  I'll fetch my tin hat and run.....


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 24, 2017, 17:36:00
Good to hear.  IIRC there used to be access to more of the platforms until the layout was rationalised?
Yes, I think it was done around the mid-1990s before Heathrow Express started.  Need to dig out my old Track Plan books to check.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 24, 2017, 21:12:27
The Royal Oak Sidings are being relayed to allow IET sets to stable there between turns.

So I take it that they are going to be wired? - unlike now.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: TonyK on August 25, 2017, 18:05:33
Thanks for the info.  Is S&C another one for the acronym page? :)

Possibly, yes, but can you ask CfN nicely as I have already asked him to do some other changes today and I don't wish to entail the 'Wrath of CfN' twice in the same day...... ::) :P ;)

.....just out of interest as well, older hands used to also refer to S&C (Switch and Crossings) as P&C (Points and Crossings), so thats two new acronyms in one day.  I'll fetch my tin hat and run.....

Already there (both), so no need to anger anyone.


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 26, 2017, 17:35:45
Thanks. I was aware of DOO but not DCO.

Admin: Perhaps these terms could be added to the Acronyms list?

Done!
Four Thanks, Now!


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: chuffed on August 26, 2017, 17:51:37
BNM may need to be careful if he takes Finn for a spin on rails rather than in the Rover.(See what I did there ? Wuff!) After his run-ins with the gateline staff at Paddington we don't want any doggy DOO's on the platform ::)


Title: Re: Train derailment at Paddington - 20 Aug 17
Post by: JayMac on November 22, 2017, 12:59:08
The RAIB has released a safety digest following this incident. Track defect as most suspected. Decayed timbers, caused by water and toilet waste, leading to gauge spread.

Very quick turnaround on the investigation, and no need for a full report, which suggests the cause, and lessons to be learned, were obvious to all.

Important safety messages from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-digest-172017-paddington/passenger-train-derailment-london-paddington-20-august-2017):

Quote
This accident demonstrates the importance of:

 - making sure that once work to renew longitudinal timbers has been identified as being necessary, it should be given an appropriate priority

 - routine visual inspection of longitudinal timbers should take account of defects identified in previous detailed examinations

 - when consideration is being given to prioritising project activities over remedial maintenance work, the risk of infrastructure failure is taken into account


Full safety digest:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-digest-172017-paddington/passenger-train-derailment-london-paddington-20-august-2017



This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net