Great Western Coffee Shop

Has anyone seen a draft timetable for the West Country IEP services to commence, I believe, in Dec18/Jan19? I am especially interested in the semi-fast services to EXD, including calls at WSB.

Several, but owing to the negotiations over muzzled/unmuzzled bimodes, another iteration is underway. In other words, there are no currently proposed timetables

The versions I have seen have been on condition they are not circulated further, partly due no doubt to the reasons mentioned by ChrisB above.  Frustrating but not uncommon in these days of commercial sensitivity.

Is anyone able to comment on the general pattern proposed?

Such as hourly - Paddington, Reading, Newbury, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, Tiverton PW, Exeter SD. Plus perhaps Pewsey and/or Frome calls every two hours. Differences may apply in the peaks with additional Berks and Hants calls??

All speculation on my part based on speculation I have previously read - but it might be useful to know where we are heading! West or East perhaps!

Hourly Paddington - Reading - Taunton - Tiverton - Exeter - Newton Abbott - etc (to and via Plymouth)

Every 2 hours Paddington - Reading - Theale - Newbury - Stations to Pewsey - Westbury - Castle Cary - Taunton - Exeter (some extensions, Paignton and / or Plymouth)

Also Paddington - Reading - key stations via Newbury to Bedwyn to make services to Bedwyn hourly overall.

No doubt still many iterations to go before a final plan emerges.

However, no surprise that I am disappointed to see no mention so far of Frome calls in the semi-fasts. The planning of this major change could represent a golden opportunity to put Frome more firmly back on the inter-city map. So I do hope the powers that be have not simply dismissed the idea as impractical, but will give the matter further thought so that at least "some" semis do call throughout the day.

I had pondered that the ideal calls could be in the quiet hour when the Weymouth's do not typically run. However, this is confounded by the (probable) requirement for a reasonable connection in to and out of the Weymouth services at Westbury mainly to serve Bruton (and Frome!). This is another example of the many compromises that appear in timetable planning.

There has not been much comment around Frome about this pending change (early days) but I do expect that louder voices will appear for Frome calls once the framework becomes more widely known. High powers that be please note the latent demand. 

 

Need to get request in fast - with reasoned argument preferably evidenced. They are SO behind that material changes won't be welcomed/even possible once they are settled....so get talking now!

There is scope for significant input for 2019 during this Autumn.  Not sure where to start.

Frome is a Heart of Wessex CRP station and they have been polled for inputs, as have Wiltshire Council, on both the principles of timetable design at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18459.0 and a separate sheet of flows (direct and connections) that the community wants to protect / nurture. The nature of the beast looks like the timetable planners will be putting the the main artery services at clock face (perhaps not quite so regular as you might expect, though) and then seeing how the secondary main lines and then the rest can fit round them.  Suggest you talk with Heart of Wessex, or if you're on the station CRP team of theirs, bring it up.

Frome also is treated as an honorary member of the West Wilts Rail User Group.  Are you on their committee?  Do you know any committee members?  Regular meetings tend to be single talks of interest, so it's unlikely on historic form that that'll hold a special meeting / discuss it at  public meeting - but you could ask.  In any case, they have a meeting (19:00 tomorrow evening, Civic Hall, Warminster)

Frome is not a TransWilts Station ... except that we do have a through service to / from Swindon each day, a number of commuters between Frome and Melksham / Chippenham / Swindon, special "via Melksham" fares, and economically it has far closer ties with Wiltshire and Trowbridge than with Somerset and Taunton.  So the TransWilts team feel a "duty of care" for our mutual good, and that's extended to some crosswork behind the scenes.

WSW Frome - are you a member of a group that's a TWSW member?  There will be a thread there on the 2018/19 timetable, and also the pre-consultation and consultation as to what goes into the next greater western franchise.   You should also be involving your local passenger transport authority - Somerset County Council - and ensuring they know your views.

I'm aware "Frome Rail Users" on Facebook - are you linked with that - and know the FAVbug bus group / co-ordination might be rather useful if not already under way.

With my TWSW hat on, I feel fairly well informed on the jigsaw pieces for the 2018 timetable (potentially some big changes), 2019 timetable (other big changes for sure) and for the timetable in the next franchise.   Happy to talk them through with you before or after tomorrow's WWRUG meeting if you're there / introduce yourself (if I don't already know the face behind the name here!) or to talk them through at another date.   At present it's like planning for a wedding - knowing who has to be there, who you would like there in addition, and having to work out the seating - but not publishing early ideas because elements will upset people, and they'll change anyway.

Thanks Grahame - I plan to be in Warminster tonight so we (and others?) can chat after the meeting.

I won't be in a rush to get back home as the last train from Warminster that connects to Melksham is at 19:01. On past form, we'll be kicked out of the Civic Centre at the end of the meeting, but there are a couple of places that serve excellent soft drinks (as well as alcohol) on the main street, where much effective post-meeting business has been conducted on prior occasions!

Would love to see a 3x daily PAD to PNZ service (5+5 IEP) targeting Devon and Cornwall passengers travelling to and from London.  In an ideal world this would run fast to EXD before splitting, with the front unit running fast again to PLY then all stations to PNZ, and the rear unit stopping all stations to PLY.  This pattern would reverse for the Up service.

Yes this does not serve those trying to get to the intermediate stations between EXD and PAD, but would be a service for the residents of Devon and Cornwall and not commuters or those further up the line who already have more choice of services to and from the capital.

Isn't the suggestion for the fast PLY/PNZ services to do exactly that?

Not exactly ... but recognisably close in stopping pattern.   Extra stops east of Devon in the hourly service are only at Taunton and Reading.  And not just 3 a day but hourly. 

Aren't the hourly 'fast' ones also stopping at Tiverton, with the two-hourly semi-fasts from Paddington to Exeter missing out Tiverton?

Yes.  I said "East of Devon" and the previous correspondence was talking about giving Devon and Cornwall fast services to London.  Tiverton is in Devon.

Good point, although I had it in my head the part about running fast to Exeter, and was considering Tiverton as

How could I forget Tiverton !

So, fast Paddington to Taunton.  Split Taunton with front unit then fast to PLY for all stations to PNZ, with the rear unit all stations to PLY.

I wonder what the journey time would be ?

Can't see that - major flow EXD-PLY will sant to travel on the faster service

Is that definite rather than the semi-fast just calling at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton and Exeter with an hourly Bedwyn service continuing to run as now?

Not sure of structure east of Pewsey; Bedwyn should get hourly - may be hourly turn back, or alternate turn backs;

Recently I have started an awareness exercise in Frome concerning the new IET/IEP timetables and the opportunities this may present to improve services at Frome. Two of the local newspapers have recently published my letter and the text is shown below.

Many of us are aware that there are operational issues linked with Frome calls. Not least of these is that the current plans (apparently) require the down semi-fasts to arrive in Taunton just ahead of the fast service, for connectional purposes (and presumably equivalent for up services). However, the issue should be given a reasonable consideration and response. The MP for Somerton and Frome is an active rail campaigner and supports these suggestions. We will meet later in November to discuss further.

Future Train Services at Frome
Readers may be aware that the (now partial) Great Western Railway electrification scheme will be completed in 2018. The timetables will be completely revised in late 2018 and this will affect the Frome/Westbury areas.  The draft timetables are in advanced planning but not yet in the public domain.
Information from various sources show the proposed GWR service patterns as they affect this region are:
1.   Every hour- fast service London to/from the West Country, calling at Reading and Taunton.
2.   (Generally) Every two hours - semi-fast service London to/from Exeter, calling at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary and Taunton.
The morning and evening commuter services between Frome and London are retained but the afternoon service will likely disappear. Under these plans Frome will generally be served by connections at Westbury in/out of Heart of Wessex trains similar to the current arrangements.
These major timetable revisions accompanying the introduction of new rolling stock represent an opportunity to try to put Frome more firmly back on the inter-city map, with improved direct services to London and importantly, greater connectivity within Somerset to Taunton.
We must ask anyone with lobbying influence to strongly recommend that “some of” the semi-fast services call at Frome. It must be noted that there are time penalties and other technical issues associated with calling at Frome so that practicalities may just prevail – but it is definitely worth a serious ask. Wider thinking might consider the use of skip-stop working for certain services or an extension of some services which will otherwise terminate at Bedwyn, Wilts.
Separately, South Western Railway have recently published (for comment) their draft timetable for December 2018. The services to/from Frome are slightly enhanced and include an early morning service to London Waterloo and a late afternoon return.
It is not clear if there will be any public consultation on the GWR timetables but I plan to circulate this information more widely and anyone interested should try to influence a positive outcome.

2. You forgot Tiverton Parkway.

Also, I'm not not sure skip stopping on a service every 2 hours would be welcomed at stations due to be served every two hours. Skip stopping would mean a service once in a 4-hour period

I thought Tiverton was being served by the hourly fasts, and not by the two hourly semi-fasts.

As the thread is already here I won’t start a new one unless required by mods.

It’s closer to the time now (nearly 1 year) and I wonder what the situation with the timetables are. What’s still expected across whole network, will this still be delivered in January (as suggested by GWR themselves) and what will be the situation with extended IET journeys replacing stoppers (e.g Cheltenham, will peaks still be local or in addition to?)

First bid & response has been received by GWR,second round started I understand. In front of where they were in the May round timewise

Over to Network Rail then...  Oh dear!  :-\  Mind you is this the full timetable recast or are ambitions being scaled back a little in favour of a staged approach?

I think the former(currently)

What would staging look like? Would it be working out the full new timetable, then leaving out a few trains (or at least identifying which they are) if you suspect initial problems? Doing that obviously needs to work in terms of diagrams and rostering, but that's GWR's job and they ought to be getting good at sorting that out by now. By problems I mean e.g. stock or staff numbers, or reliability of pushing the full tph in and out of Paddington.

The effect of that might be less pretty, in terms of even intervals, interconnections, etc. than a complete new Working Timetable for each stage. However, it does allow for reintroduction of services as and when rather than only May and December. Plus of course the shortage of effort for fully planning all the fiddly bits of a WTT means doing two or three probably isn't possible anyway.

Both service reliability and staffing levels might be good reasons not to introduce everything at once.  New timetables always take a little time to bed in, and as we have seen at GTR and Northern major changes can go badly wrong.  We're not at all sure exactly when electrification will be available to Cardiff either.  The obvious candidate to bring in afterwards is the extra 2tph planned to run between Paddington and Bristol via Bristol Parkway as few adjustments would be needed to introduce them later - possibly a couple of extra stops at Bristol Parkway and Swindon on some of the other trains to compensate, if the original timetable iteration is still being pursued.  Two 'spare' paths between Paddington and Didcot each hour would mean a little breathing space for everything else to settle in, and you would then have those paths free to introduce the extras whenever you feel confident enough to do so.

I have just been told that it is being put back until December 2019. I seriously  can’t process this and how annoyed I am.

Just read this news on uk Rail Forums. Any source for this latest development?

The poster on there is very well informed so I would imagine it's correct.  If NR are now looking at July for Cardiff electrification (and the completion of the current electrification programme) perhaps it should come as no great shock, and GWR will have no excuses for not getting the trains and staff fully ready in time.  Very frustrating though.

It does not come as any surprise for it to be put back from May - been in the wind for September or December.  I have a different view to CharlieGCR - understand the frustration but hope the opportunity is taken to sort out the cobble together that the connecting services had become in the draft;  you may have noted 12 oopsies I reported on the TransWilts along - quite remarkable on basically a round trip shuttle train! 

I’m not surprised either especially with electrification to Cardiff not expected to be complete by the Summer. I guess for the majority of the travelling public this further delay won’t make a lot of difference.

September would be acceptable. I haven’t seen much of the drafts so fair enough, however it’s disappointing that the whole project is being pushed back month by month.

Just booked train/seat on the 1C78  8 Coach 11.03 PAD to NTA for the 21/02.Route is PAD, RDG, C/Cary, Honiton, EXD, NTA, but still not sure if it will be either a HST or IET although confirmation states HST.

1C78 is among the 13 remaining HST diagrams until at least late March.

See: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20878.msg255443#msg255443

Subject to availability and operational requirements on the day of course.

The diversionary route between Castle Cary and Exeter via Yeovil Pen Mill/Junction is still to be cleared for IETs in passenger service, but may be by your date of travel, which is during the closure of Whiteball tunnel between Taunton and Tiverton Parkway. That said, the booked HST diagram is still the most likely.

There is an IET test run planned from Laira to Axminster and return on Wednesday 09 January 2019:

5Z66
Laira T.& R.S.M.D. 0905
Exeter St.Davids 1029-1036
Exeter Central 1039-1047
Honiton 1101-1115
Axminster 1126
5Z67 1139 Axminster to Laira T.& R.S.M.D.

One previous test IEP ran over the diversionary route on Nov 29

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20483.0

I thought it didn't make it between Exeter St.Davids and Exeter Central due to issues with the route clearance paperwork, hence the run tomorrow.... ::)

Yes, I had forgotten that.

This ran today, presumably without issue. That should mean the final NR hurdle - operation over the Bank between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central - has been cleared.

All systems seemingly now go for IETs to run in passenger service over the diversionary route during Whiteball tunnel closure next month.

1A88 PNZ PAD being diverted via Yeovil , due to obstruction neat Taunton.
This starts from North Pole IEP depot to form 0635 from PAD.
HST or IET?

10-car IET.

Yes. Confirmed as first IET passenger service divert via Honiton.

1A88 was sent that way after 1A87, the 1255 from Plymouth to Paddington, struck a deer near a foot crossing just past Tiverton Parkway and came to a stand with loss of air. 1A87 is a HST.