Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Smoke and Mirrors => Topic started by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 06:37:21



Title: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 06:37:21
Well - bang (in theory) goes my trip on the last Weymouth trip of the summer ...

Cancellations Melksham to Westbury at 09:06 and 11:02.  No indication of alternatives.

Phoned the number on the GWR web site (0345 7000 125). Advise offered on option 1 "make you own way to Westbury. We have not been informed of any alternative transport" ... He did tell me I might like to call in again, go for option 4 then option 3 and ask on that combination about other alternatives.

* "Driver shortage".   Poor enough in the first place except on a very rare basis. 
* Why pull an entire line's service rather than thinning out elsewhere?
* Why not provide an alternative?
* Why advise make own way to Westbury?   Bus to Trowbridge then train is practical, to WSB is not.
* Why not suggest 08:37, change at Chippenham and Bath, as that IS running and at same fare too.

Apart from the 08:37, first trains from Melksham today are 11:47 to Swindon and 13:02 to Westbury. 



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 07:05:15
Called the number advised ... "don't know what we're doing about replacement yet" ... advise to make own way to WSB by taxi and GWR will compensate, with other arrangements made if ongoing connection missed.   When I asked about using the 08:37 via Chippenham and Bath - "I will speak to control team" and having checked what ticket I intend to use (Melksham to Weymouth off peak day return via Yeovil) told me that will be OK.

Which drops me back from the "unit train" to the final Wizard ...

I am assured that TransWilts will be sorted by 13:00 - "just a problem finding a replacement driver this early in the morning" ...

Plan had been for a quiet day / leisure trip with the dogs ... won't be taking them on the much longer run routing, and don't trust driver being found for later shift. Will be interesting to see if there are many GWR staff on the Wizard, bearing in mind they can't find enough staff to drive the trains!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 09, 2017, 07:15:34
Shortage of units, shortage of train crew, been that way on and off ever since Dft made the winner of the original GW franchise back in 05/06 run the old Wessex franchise. Sure it wasn't perfect but it was a darn sight better than the **** service West rail users have had to put up with for 11 years with little/no investment for which Dft/First should both take responsibility for.

And what he have we got to look forward to? Thames valley hand me downs whilst other new 'regional' service franchises are getting new trains  :(


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 09, 2017, 07:21:15
I hope you make it to Weymouth Graham. Weather in the morning looks nice but not too clever in the afternoon.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 07:34:41
I hope you make it to Weymouth Graham. Weather in the morning looks nice but not too clever in the afternoon.

Thanks ... looks like fun on the way back too ...

Quote
18:28 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:13
Facilities on the 18:28 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:13.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wayback.jpg)

Just arranged an earlier lift to Melksham Station and late pickup, let the dogs know about the change to our plans, and hoping for a fun day.  Be able to have my monthly alcoholic drink  ;D in Weymouth and hope I don't give any GWR staff on the train on the way back too many negative thoughts about cancelling a whole morning's service!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: martyjon on September 09, 2017, 07:49:15
Service meltdown also seems to be affecting JOURNEYCHECK too.


Improvement Works.

Between Winchester and Filton Abbey Wood via Bristol Parkway !!!!


Hope today Cathedrals Express ??? destined for said cathedral city doesn't end up at Gloucester instead.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 08:02:56
Hope today Cathedrals Express ??? destined for said cathedral city doesn't end up at Gloucester instead.

No problem - perfectly good cathedral in Gloucester  ;D


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2017, 09:05:52
Hope today Cathedrals Express ??? destined for said cathedral city doesn't end up at Gloucester instead.

No problem - perfectly good cathedral in Gloucester  ;D

Gloucester Rugby are away at Quins today so a visit would be a good idea, all the village idiots will be away for the day, I've already been out for a walk this morning and noticed several figures in cherry and white shirts pointing at planes and running away!  :D


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2017, 22:21:51
I hope you make it to Weymouth Graham. Weather in the morning looks nice but not too clever in the afternoon.

Fantastic day thank you; very tired indeed so will write up in the morning.   Most I've done for months.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: JayMac on September 10, 2017, 00:32:00
A pedant writes:

advice.

 ;)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 06:32:58
A pedant writes:

advice.

 ;)

I have taken your advi*e and changed the thread's title.   Thank you for picking that up.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 08:17:55
I hope you make it to Weymouth Graham. Weather in the morning looks nice but not too clever in the afternoon.

Fantastic day thank you; very tired indeed so will write up in the morning.   Most I've done for months.

OK ... with the first TransWilts southbound service not running until 13:02, and advise from National Rail and GWR customer service to be make my own way to Westbury and claim,  I switched to the 08:37 northbound and double doglegged via Chippenham and Bath Spa - eventual arrival into Weymouth at 12:22. Journey planner said 12:09 (as you'll see above), but we had to wait for a northbound train at Maiden Newton, then for the pilotman to come across to us.   Rather than the Wizard, that was the unit train following it.

Full credit to station staff at Bath Spa (where I went out of the station to stretch my legs) and on the Weymouth train on leaving Bath with regard ticket checks; I had wondered about a challenge on routing - especially as Melksham to Weymouth day return is cheaper than Bath to Weymouth day return.

Reported elsewhere - 99 passengers on the 08:37 when it left Melksham for Swindon (45 having joined there) - hard to know how many had transferred their plans from the previous and subsequent trains that were both cancelled with no information about replacement.

Around 40 on the 12:09 (scheduled time) arrival into Weymouth - 4 car 2 x 150/2.  Don't have numbers for the 10:57 arrival there (which I could have been on if the 09:06 ex MKM had run) or the 11:45 (Wizard) - that was reported to me by someone who had been on it as "about 200".

Return journey ... on time ex Weymouth on the 17:28 "Weymouth Wizard", with around 128 passengers - part count before Castle Cary, rest of count after we had called there.  Far higher density in the front 2 coaches  ;) .   It was busier prior to Yeovil - more people off there than on.   Started to pick up local traffic at Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon where I left the train (would have taken me over 2 more hours to double back to Melksham as the final northbound TransWilts from Westbury had already left) - noting people's surprise at the train that had turned up - "nice train - what's this about".

Hard work for the train manager - short platforms all the way, some of the PA points not working.  About 6 minutes late into B-o-A ... left there on time as for some reason it's scheduled for a 9 minute stop.  My lift (Lisa) and I grabbed a bite then headed back into Melksham - for completeness I called at the station for the 21:34 I would have arrived on.

As reported elsewhere - 21:34 arrival from Swindon was 2 car / 1 in the dark, out of use; -27 + 2 -> 21(ish) ( 48/29 )

Melksham Station pitch black - really need the lights switching on for Saturday evening now that nights are drawing in. Personal view is that there's a significant risk of someone doing themselves serious damage by falling off the platform as the edge can't be seen ... would love to see the risk assessment; perhaps the train's headlights, the slow approach, and the fact that people clear the platform before the train leaves reduces the risk to an acceptable level?

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/nolightsmkm.jpg)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 10, 2017, 08:49:19
Seen a nice group photo of 20+ people on a friend's Facebook posing with the powercar at Weymouth. several off duty staff in that photo.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 09:10:34
Seen a nice group photo of 20+ people on a friend's Facebook posing with the powercar at Weymouth. several off duty staff in that photo.

I have similar photos.  I didn't add any here. I have mixed emotions when I see so many GWR staff gathered in front of a train on the same day that the company has cancelled a whole morning's TransWilts service due to lack of staff. The staff who headed off to Weymouth are probably amongst the greatest advocates and supporters of a decent customer-serving service, and the last ones I want to put in front of my lens and suggest they should have been deployed that day to provide that service.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2017, 09:15:12
No meltdown on the Transwilts today Graham.................just the rest of the GWR network!!!  >:(


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 10, 2017, 09:24:26
No meltdown on the Transwilts today Graham.................just the rest of the GWR network!!!  >:(
Indeed, at present a full 'West' service running with no cancellations, short formed or terminating short. Been a while since that happened.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 10, 2017, 09:28:23
Whoops! Spoke too soon. Here they come, just appeared on journey check both train crew issues:


08:05 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:52 will be terminated at Westbury.

13:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:45 will be started from Westbury.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 09:32:21
No meltdown on the Transwilts today Graham.................just the rest of the GWR network!!!  >:(

Yeah ... and if only we could schedule meltdowns well ahead, it would be so much easier.  ;D

Discussion yesterday.  "Didn't you market the final Wizard via Melksham". "No [reasons]". "I'm so glad you didn't as it turned out" ...

Serious point to my answer: There are ways and means in the theory of the timetable that things could be done to schedule to fill a couple of gaps and better meet peak flows.  Current practical experience is that there aren't enough drivers / conductors / useable train available to provide even what's scheduled on a 99% basis, and until that situation changes it would be foolish to press for something that's going to be even less reliable, or market in a way that's going to attract people to try the train just to have them disappointed more than very occasionally.  Where journeys involve connections, a failure of any one leg of the journey is a failed experience.   Last Sunday, TransWilts ran .. but the 17:56 from Weymouth was cancelled. Bad experience for those tempted to take a day out!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 10:00:35
No meltdown on the Transwilts today Graham.................just the rest of the GWR network!!!  >:(

Think you missed out the word "yet" ...  :-\ ....

Quote
12:30 Westbury to Swindon due 13:20
12:30 Westbury to Swindon due 13:20 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

13:28 Swindon to Westbury due 14:10
13:28 Swindon to Westbury due 14:10 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

More cancellations / short workings coming up at each refresh - 3 each way on the Cardiff / Portsmouth corridor gone south of Westbury / Salisbury.



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 10:05:17
And two more as I was posting that

Quote
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:18 Swindon to Westbury due 18:01
17:18 Swindon to Westbury due 18:01 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

That's 4 of 13 single journeys - 30.7% cancellation rate.   Up even on yesterday, 4 of 16 cancelled which was a 25% rate.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 10:08:13
Shouldn't post so quickly ...

Quote
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

19:55 Swindon to Westbury due 20:38
19:55 Swindon to Westbury due 20:38 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

6 out of 13 journeys gone - 46% cancellation rate.

At least there's now a coach planned - "may not be at published train times".  With connections all along the line, there's an issue with coaches that set off at the train's proper time but have slower journeys.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 10, 2017, 10:11:48
How are GWR allowed to get away with this week after week and what are they doing to fix the problem of not having enough crew at Westbury? This is nothing new as previous historic topics on this forum will back up that Westbury crew depot has a staffing issue.

If GWR cannot run a reliable timetable on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Weymouth and Transwilts, then a reduced timetable with longer trains should be bought in. Less convenient yes but at least you can turn up at the station to find your train is actually running.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 12:30:30
Quote
14:35 Westbury to Swindon due 15:20
14:35 Westbury to Swindon due 15:20 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

15:28 Swindon to Westbury due 16:10
15:28 Swindon to Westbury due 16:10 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

I make that 8 out of 13 cancelled.  61% cancellation rate.  With the exception of times that the line has been closed (flood, points failure, etc) I think that is the worst I have seen.   Even worse that early 2007 when First, as victor over National Express, decimated the services put on by their former competitor.

How are GWR allowed to get away with this week after week and what are they doing to fix the problem of not having enough crew at Westbury?

There are lot of words and promises, but people can't travel on words.

You say "allowed" to get away with ... who can / should hold them to account?   The rail industry is a rich tapestry for smoke and mirrors that dilutes any holding to account.   I note Department for Transport, Member of Parliament, Transport Focus, Local Passenger Transport Authority, Customer Panel, Office of Rail and Road, Community Rail Partnerships, Passengers, press - traditional and online, TravelWatch, First Group board, Rail User Groups. I wonder who if any have teeth and inclination to use them, or powers of persuasion which will actually be used to persuade.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 10, 2017, 12:35:06
Not only can't people travel on words - some can't travel on rail replacement coaches - those with bikes, those with dogs and those who have non collapsible prams or pushchairs.  Bit of a snag if you have made your outward journey but now can't get home....


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2017, 12:45:39
It's been very poor for West services over this summer on weekends (and not much better for LTV and HSS), but I don't think it's quite reached the tipping point yet where it's bad enough for those responsible to be forced to be held to account and take action.  It's also a little easier to hide from the headlines when it is predominantly weekend services affected as they aren't as high profile as weekday commuter ones.  If it continues for the next few months then it might reach that point, but if it settles down at the end of the summer and all is well until next year then GWR will probably get away with it.  And before TG leaps in, I am not for one minute suggesting that is an acceptable situation from a customer perspective, but I expect that is what will happen.

London Midland a couple of years ago reached the tipping point when for several weekends there was a very high cancellation rate due to drivers not coming in on Sunday's - unofficial strike action if you will - and that obviously reached the level where the national press got interested in it.  The same can obviously be said for the ongoing Southern fiasco.

One slight light at the end of the tunnel is that I gather through the grapevine that talks to bring Sunday work within the working week are likely to be on the table sooner rather than later.  I had feared the recent IEP deal for HSS drivers had meant that was unlikely to be the case.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 10, 2017, 13:53:37
Not getting much attention could also be down to the fact that it's local services (Cardiff-Portsmouth not really local or didn't used to be classed as such) not connected to London where it could get more scrutiny. As II also points out its mainly happening on weekends when you don't have those commuting to and from work more leisure travellers.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 16:09:07
In the light of the shocking problems over the summer months, I thought I would ask GW via their live chat if it was safe to plan a Melksham to Weymouth trip for next Sunday.

Quote
Graham
Seeing a train next Sunday (17th) Melksham to Weymouth / change Westbury at 09:53, return service at 17:56, due 19:56. Will these trains run?

Melanie G
16:36: Just searching now,thank you.

Melanie G
16:37: According to my search,they are showing up as still running.If you contact us the day before however for a further update. As of today yes they are.

Graham
16:38: OK - sounds like you would advise us to book anything to do in Weymouth that can't be cancelled then :-(

Melanie G
16:40: At present all seems fine,but as trains change daily dependant on whether there are disruptions,I cannot assure you that there may not be any changes. Today they are still showing on the search as they are planned as normal Graham.

(Agent's name changed)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2017, 16:29:47
No meltdown on the Transwilts today Graham.................just the rest of the GWR network!!!  >:(

Graham my sincere apologies for putting a curse on the Transwilts today.........witches used to be burned for less!!!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 10, 2017, 19:23:24
Could it be a case of having enough staff, but those staff choosing not to work after they've been rostered? Something they are able ad allowed to do in their contracts?

So what is needed is not more drivers, but a change if contract? One maybe can't expect a depot to be effectively overstaffed, but with enough drivers on the 'right', newer contract?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2017, 19:26:27
Could it be a case of having enough staff, but those staff choosing not to work after they've been rostered? Something they are able ad allowed to do in their contracts?

I don't think anyone is allowed to do that on a Saturday, when there have also been widespread problems this summer, but many can do on a Sunday (though usually with 5 days notice required, so not just on a whim that morning).


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 19:37:22
So what is needed is not more drivers, but a change if contract? One maybe can't expect a depot to be effectively overstaffed, but with enough drivers on the 'right', newer contract?

Where the message says "This is due to a shortage of train crew" it indicates to me that there are not enough of them available when needed.

And it's, frankly, down to directors to direct the managers as to how they are to manage train crew to have enough available to run services within the target levels. Whether that's done by employing more, changing contracts, or providing an environment in which everyone wants to work longer but safe hours is for them to direct and manage. 

Target levels?  Average 99% running.   That's 5 TransWilts cancellations over 28 days.  We have had 12 cancellations in the last two; pretty sure the 19:35 is running (it would, wouldn't it, because it serves the Golden Valley ...) - first train in either direction since before lunch.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 10, 2017, 19:44:37
Changing contracts isn't easy. You have to get to a point where drivers sign up. That is very likely to be an expensive change.

Methinks a requirement of franchise renewal ITT fron the DfT, where an acceptance from the winning TIC would reduce the income to the taxpayer/increase in unregulated fares.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 19:53:37
Changing contracts isn't easy. You have to get to a point where drivers sign up. That is very likely to be an expensive change.

Who said it needs a change?  They seemed to cope much better in the summer of 2014, the summer of 2015, the summer of 2016, so perhaps the problem is caused by something that has changed!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 10, 2017, 20:00:44
Seen a nice group photo of 20+ people on a friend's Facebook posing with the powercar at Weymouth. several off duty staff in that photo.

I have similar photos.  I didn't add any here. I have mixed emotions when I see so many GWR staff gathered in front of a train on the same day that the company has cancelled a whole morning's TransWilts service due to lack of staff. The staff who headed off to Weymouth are probably amongst the greatest advocates and supporters of a decent customer-serving service, and the last ones I want to put in front of my lens and suggest they should have been deployed that day to provide that service.

On the other hand if it's the rest day, they are perfectly entitled to go on a jolly. The chap I know is a trolley attendant on the class 180s, which I believe don't do weekends, so there is no traction he's trained on at present for the weekend.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2017, 20:28:38
On the other hand if it's the rest day, they are perfectly entitled to go on a jolly.

Oh - I totally know that - which is why I didn't use / involve / mention my pictures until the subject was brought up in another public post.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2017, 08:09:44
It's been very poor for West services over this summer on weekends (and not much better for LTV and HSS), but I don't think it's quite reached the tipping point yet where it's bad enough for those responsible to be forced to be held to account and take action.  It's also a little easier to hide from the headlines when it is predominantly weekend services affected as they aren't as high profile as weekday commuter ones.  If it continues for the next few months then it might reach that point, but if it settles down at the end of the summer and all is well until next year then GWR will probably get away with it.  And before TG leaps in, I am not for one minute suggesting that is an acceptable situation from a customer perspective, but I expect that is what will happen.

London Midland a couple of years ago reached the tipping point when for several weekends there was a very high cancellation rate due to drivers not coming in on Sunday's - unofficial strike action if you will - and that obviously reached the level where the national press got interested in it.  The same can obviously be said for the ongoing Southern fiasco.

One slight light at the end of the tunnel is that I gather through the grapevine that talks to bring Sunday work within the working week are likely to be on the table sooner rather than later.  I had feared the recent IEP deal for HSS drivers had meant that was unlikely to be the case.

Thanks for the namecheck II!  ;) .....thing is, it's not just weekend services being decimated by driver shortages (increasingly affecting weekdays too), it's the constant short forms making already extreme overcrowding worse due to more trains "than usual" needing repairs (the usual has still not been quantified), it's the regular closure of ticket offices, often accompanied by non functioning TVMs, it's the appalling customer service, with peoples enquiries/complaints/compensation claims going unanswered for months on end (ongoing for almost a year now)........Hopwood et al (I'll be careful to avoid accusations of libel!) are directly accountable for these issues - no blaming DfT or NR - and yet there seems to be little visible or effective effort to address any of them - so yes, it is time for them to be called to account and for answers to be given as to what they are doing about it, whilst they justify their very chunky salaries.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2017, 08:59:32
The 'usual'number needs repairs is the number that are scheduled during a typical week for overhaul / exams / maintenance etc that one would not normally notice.

As has been explained several times in this & other threads, this is *not* under the control of Mark H & his colleagues - the schedule of transferring / retiring stock has been well and truly bust by the delay in electrification & delivery of electric stock. Neither of which GWR had any control over, and never will.

I rarely see cancellations on weekdays to lack of staff - and those that are are likely to be on-the-day sickness.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2017, 09:38:39
As has been explained several times in this & other threads, this is *not* under the control of Mark H & his colleagues - the schedule of transferring / retiring stock has been well and truly bust by the delay in electrification & delivery of electric stock. Neither of which GWR had any control over, and never will.

Let me tell a personal story.   As a supplier of services to customers over the last 20 years, I have subcontracted (bought in) staff and supplies rather than have us do everything direct.   It's worked pretty well (though I say so myself) with hotel breakfasts always being on the table in time, with rooms ready for guests when they arrive, and so on.  There have been occasions where we have been let down by staff (way-back, not the recent team as we all learned how to get it right!) and suppliers, but we always found a way to look after our customers.    We were able to do it through having a good setup in the first place, excellent relationships with our suppliers, and important but none-time-critical work which could be postponed a day or two in the event of an immediate time-dependent customer facing issue.

It seems - according to ChrisB - that this sort of business practise doesn't apply to the railways.  For sure, if we were short of ham we couldn't grow our own pigs - but we could look around for alternative supplies.  Of course, in our business there was no need to go as far as Salisbury, Carnforth, Southall, Long Marston, or Derby.

Quote
I rarely see cancellations on weekdays to lack of staff - and those that are are likely to be on-the-day sickness.

I would agree with what you see.  With fewer drivers available than turns, it would seem that there's a direction to cover Monday to Friday in priority over the weekend rather than thin out any weekday turns.  I suspect that's performance measure and financially driven; without wishing to name them here, I could find you a couple of diagrams which could be  dropped back to following services, perhaps with a single extra call in that following service.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2017, 10:12:10
For sure, if we were short of ham we couldn't grow our own pigs - but we could look around for alternative supplies.  Of course, in our business there was no need to go as far as Salisbury, Carnforth, Southall, Long Marston, or Derby.

And I'm quite sure that GWR have been to all those locations to see what's available and works logistically for them. You are quite aware how the rolling stock leasing works, both from ROSCOs and private owners. And the hand that the DfT has in it all.

If the problem of delayed works & stock were the cause of the TOC, I'm sure the DfT would be down on them to sort this particular problem out, money no object. But as the DfT and its subsidiary, NR, have been the total cause, a commercial organisation would look to them to sort out the problem. AS would you have done if the staff you hired were from an agency & they didn't turn up - you would not have expected to pay again, right?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: stuving on September 11, 2017, 10:16:25
Let me tell a personal story.   As a supplier of services to customers over the last 20 years, I have subcontracted (bought in) staff and supplies rather than have us do everything direct.   It's worked pretty well (though I say so myself) with hotel breakfasts always being on the table in time, with rooms ready for guests when they arrive, and so on.  There have been occasions where we have been let down by staff (way-back, not the recent team as we all learned how to get it right!) and suppliers, but we always found a way to look after our customers.    We were able to do it through having a good setup in the first place, excellent relationships with our suppliers, and important but none-time-critical work which could be postponed a day or two in the event of an immediate time-dependent customer facing issue.

Maybe a more direct parallel is quite relevant. In effect, you were the manager and (for labour-only items like preparing breakfast from supplies already in stock) if no-one else was there you did it - because it had to be done. Why not apply the same to driving trains? It is done sometimes during strikes, I know, but this is a general rule that if a train lacks a driver then the manager (who obviously has to be qualified for this) has to do it, including being called into work.

I'll bet that would push the issue up their priority lists, if nothing else. And the more senior levels of management it can be applied to, the more effective that would be.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2017, 10:20:05
And the unions would very quickly call a strike. Nice.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2017, 10:31:46
For sure, if we were short of ham we couldn't grow our own pigs - but we could look around for alternative supplies.  Of course, in our business there was no need to go as far as Salisbury, Carnforth, Southall, Long Marston, or Derby.

And I'm quite sure that GWR have been to all those locations to see what's available and works logistically for them.

I didn't suggest that they hadn't. 

As a business, I would also ask myself (if offered the very best Parma ham) if I really wanted to spend that much on my customers, or if a more pragmatic approach would be to turn down the alternative, and tell my customers I had been let down by my supplier.   Were buying in the Parma ham to be so expensive that I had to recover significant extra expenditure from my wider customer base, or if I had to explain to my fellow directors and shareholders a significant extra expense that hit them in their pockets, there would be temptation indeed to turn down the alternative product, and if explained to my customers "it was either no ham, or that and prices going up", I suspect many would have agreed with my decision.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2017, 10:35:27
Which is where we are at.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: JayMac on September 11, 2017, 13:56:36
Fares didn't go up (except in the normal annual January increase) when London Midland were forced by the DfT to recruit more drivers and sort their weekend rostering.

Why should it be different on GWR?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: JayMac on September 11, 2017, 13:59:08
And the unions would very quickly call a strike. Nice.

Striking because your employer is filling staffing gaps with managers to provide the advertised service? Not sure that would be a legal reason for a strike. Definitely sure it wouldn't go down well with passengers or the press.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2017, 14:22:21
Because using managers when the union would want more drivers / members recruited, that's why. Having drivers on 'wrong' contracts isn't their members problem. Or paying sufficient overtime/extra allowance to work rest days would be the union's 'suggestion'. And yes, I do think they'd call for industrial action which may be an overtime ban, which would make the situation worse.

Fares didn't go up (except in the normal annual January increase) when London Midland were forced by the DfT to recruit more drivers and sort their weekend rostering.

Why should it be different on GWR?

LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 11, 2017, 14:38:34
LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: broadgage on September 11, 2017, 14:50:45
And the unions would very quickly call a strike. Nice.

Striking because your employer is filling staffing gaps with managers to provide the advertised service? Not sure that would be a legal reason for a strike. Definitely sure it wouldn't go down well with passengers or the press.

I expect that the union would claim that the strike was about safety, as most disputes are claimed to be about safety these days. Any increase in wages or increase in union powers is purely coincidental.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: plymothian on September 11, 2017, 22:13:14
LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

Maybe, just like passengers, the guards are fed up with the company not providing what it promises too.  It's bad enough working Mon-Sat on short formed services, let alone come in on a Sunday - when they're not contracted to - and work more intensive diagrams.  Several guards have said is all they've done for the past few years is apologise to passengers.

There is a general feeling around that the west has been left to rot by management.
West drivers are also peeved off due to the lack of company harmonisation.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 12, 2017, 06:32:18
LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

That would require leadership and honesty......
don't hold your breath.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 12, 2017, 08:09:45
LOndon Midland *were* short of drivers. I'm not sure we have definitely concluded that GWR are - just too many on 'wrong contracts'. London Midland's extras were part of a 'fine' for poor performane
I wish GWR would come out and say what exactly the problem is on weekends on 'West' services and what they are doing about it. Be a bit more understanding if it was clear what the problem was.

That would require leadership and honesty......
don't hold your breath.

Here's an explanation I have been offered (from a senior level within GWR) that does seem to make sense when you look at the arithmetic:
"More that usual train crew needing training at the same time"

Let's analyse that.

GWR has just over 5,000 staff (from here (https://www.gwr.com/about-us/our-business/executive-team)).

Training days delivered in 2015/16 = 20,600 and in 2016/17 = 22971. Planned for 2017/18 = 61,500 and for 2018/19 = 43,100. Those latter two figures say "includes data from new programmes and areas previously not reordered" which makes for figures we have to be careful about when we compare - I haven't a clue how many new areas have come in!  So that's 4.5 days per staff member in the year to March 2017, and over 12 days per staff member this year.

Can loss of availability of the average GWR staff member of 8 days of doing their regular job make a real difference?  Yes, and a significant one if
* staffing is already very close to being at its limits
* staff are already putting in as much overtime and Sundays as they want
* the extra training isn't even across the 5,000 but rather is skewed towards those moving train types
* Monday to Friday staff levels are maintained as prime goal, with shortages being managed to occur at the weekend
* training step-up didn't occur until the equipment on which to train (80x trains and 16x trains) was available.

If you loose the average staff member (yeah, I know - the operation team are all exceptional  ;D ) for 8 more weekend days over the 9 months from July 2017 to March 2018, that's a 10% loss from your staff pool, and that 10% shortage is going to be very hard indeed to fill week after week after week where the system is already close to its limit.

Come 3rd January 2018, the Westbury depot and staff based at Fratton and Weymouth too, should be switching overnight from driving 15x trains to 16x trains, and (unless we have a January 2007 style meltdown) training will need to be substantively completed by that point.  So even my 9 month estimate for extra training time may be too generous - we may be looking just over the final 6 calendar months of 2017, and the crew shortage creeps up to 15%. Realistically, it may be 20% or 25%, bearing in mind that the proportion of extra training for platform staff, ticket sellers, HQ based staff, station maintenance teams, etc, is not going to be anything like as high as the driver and train manager extras.

The explanation also fits in with the metrics of where the staffing shortages are being seen - predominantly in Wessex (where trains are changing over) rather than further west. Further west, the main changes are the bolstering of stock of the same types they're already crewing and maintaining, with the loss of some 153 and the 150/1 units - so not the same "new unit" training needs.

You can question some of my fuzzy logic on figures and estimates. You can ask why Saturdays and Sundays have been targeted as the days on which any cuts are to fall.  You can ask whether mitigating actions have been considered / taken. I'm thinking of the  contracting SWR staff from Salisbury, as they do a train.  I'm thinking of asking retiring staff to stay on for a final autumn to provide an extra staff availability during the changeover. I'm thinking of offering staff already trained earlier in the year (i.e. Bristol based crew) more shifts down to Westbury,  enabling the remaining Westbury crew with route knowledge to distant and remote places like Weymouth and Portsmouth to be concentrated on those services.

Some or even all of those thing may have been considered, may actually be being done - I have no data either way. Certainly the current drive to recruit more staff for Westbury looks like it's got an element of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted about it ... but it may well be setting things up for a much better 2018 if the initial training is towards 16x units, with only a couple of GWR calls of 158s at Westbury each way each day next year.

Edit to clarify source of suggestion


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 12, 2017, 09:02:18
Maybe the training could/should have started earlier?  I'm sure there were a few turbos sitting at Reading depot during the middle of the day, just one of which could have made a daily trip to Westbury and back to train staff there. Or something similar.  Good management predicts this sort of issue and addresses it in good time, whereas GWR appear to be shrugging their shoulders and letting the customers suffer.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2017, 12:27:35
Surely training has to be supplied *and work started using the training* within a certain time, or it will start getting forgotten?

Try learning something, then not needing to remember it for six months? Would you remember everything?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 12, 2017, 13:13:44
That's a fair point, although a quick refresher is usually all that is needed once someone has been trained or learnt something.  I did my professional exams over 20 years ago, and no I don't remember everything, but it would be very quick to get back up to speed if I had to on a particular subject. 


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2017, 14:13:38
|So another half-day refresher for all those staff (say just over half) who would have been first. That's another approx 10,000 equivalent days lost to training (20,000 half-days additional if the first 50% first trained go back for a refresher). That's a lot more cancellations through lack of drivers (even if only half of those returning were drivers)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 12, 2017, 18:06:50
18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew

- one of 8 cancellations listed tonight for the same reason, so it's clearly becoming more than just a weekend issue.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2017, 18:19:51
See above in Graham's explanation from someone in the know. Training courses don't (just) run at weekends


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 13, 2017, 13:36:03
Quote
2 Train Cancellations
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44
14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04

To be fair, it's GWR's trains to blame this time rather than lack of GWR staff.

The 12:47 from Swindon is - to be fair - the least bad train to loose all day. Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 13, 2017, 13:52:01
Quote
2 Train Cancellations
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44
14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04

To be fair, it's GWR's trains to blame this time rather than lack of GWR staff.

The 12:47 from Swindon is - to be fair - the least bad train to loose all day. Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak

Didn't have a text about the 12:47 but did for the 14:04.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 13, 2017, 14:10:10
Hope the 15:12 from Swindon runs ... it' approaching full and standing at times, even a couple of hours before the peak

It's gone

Quote
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:13/09/2017 14:05


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 13, 2017, 15:18:00
Quote
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Well at least the 15:12 wasn't cancelled  ;)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 13, 2017, 16:04:06
Quote
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Well at least the 15:12 wasn't cancelled  ;)

There is a sore point indeed with that timing difference ... at 15:12, it connects at Westbury for commuters travelling onward to Warminster, Salisbury and beyond - that's a five minute connection and quite a number of people using it. At 15:18, it has pathing minutes added too and people have to sit in the train at Bradford Junction and watch the train they normally connect with go ahead of them, then wait for the train at hour later at Westbury.   That is, of course, on days when there are enough staff and working trains to actually run it!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 13, 2017, 20:14:01
..............can't even buy a ticket! ("more TVMs than usual in need of repair"?)  ::)


Acton Main Line: Ticket Office Closure

Burnham: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Castle Bar Park: Ticket Office Closure

Castle Cary: Ticket Office Closure

Crowthorne: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Crowthorne: Ticket Office Closure

Exeter St Davids: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Maidenhead: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Melksham: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Pewsey: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Stroud: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Taplow: Ticket Office Closure

Taplow: Ticket Vending Machine problem

Tiverton Parkway: Ticket Vending Machine problem


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 13, 2017, 21:22:40
Can't even blame the ticket office closures on training staff how to use the new rolling stock...


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 14, 2017, 15:19:21
Quote
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06
15:18 Swindon to Westbury due 16:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:14/09/2017 15:07


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 14, 2017, 16:09:55
Quote
16:21 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06
16:21 Westbury to Swindon due 17:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:14/09/2017 15:25


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 14, 2017, 16:45:36
Quote
17:44 Swindon to Westbury due 18:28
17:44 Swindon to Westbury due 18:28 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

18:32 Westbury to Swindon due 19:23
18:32 Westbury to Swindon due 19:23 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

I'm going back through my notes and will tell you about the last 100 services that were supposed to run later this evening.   Easy arithmetic to work out percentages if we take a sample of 100, and enough of a sample to show a trend!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 14, 2017, 19:31:23
Quote
17:44 Swindon to Westbury due 18:28
17:44 Swindon to Westbury due 18:28 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

18:32 Westbury to Swindon due 19:23
18:32 Westbury to Swindon due 19:23 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

I'm going back through my notes and will tell you about the last 100 services that were supposed to run later this evening.   Easy arithmetic to work out percentages if we take a sample of 100, and enough of a sample to show a trend!


And ...

Quote
20:06 Swindon to Westbury due 20:49
20:06 Swindon to Westbury due 20:49 will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

That's
4 journeys cancellations on Saturday
8 on Sunday
All ran Monday
All ran Tuesday
3 cancelled Wednesday
5 cancelled Thursday

There should have been 101 journeys ... 12 cancelled due to lack of GWR staff, 8 cancelled due to GWR not providing a working train ... 20% cancellations, 80% ran.  How on earth we're supposed to even maintain passenger levels, let alone continue to grow them, I don't know.    TransWilts forecasts are based on a reliable service.  That's at least 98% running - or a tenth of the cancellations we're seeing at the moment.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 14, 2017, 20:07:10
Dispiriting doesn't even come into it.

Even more annoying is there's no mention on Journeycheck of what alternative arrangements (if any) are in place. Remember the 20:06 is the last train of the day so I assume it is a taxi from Chippenham. I have no way of telling but I hope announcements were made on the 19:00 from Paddington (the official connection into the 20:06) to stay on the train past Swindon and alight at Chippenham.  If not passengers may have got off and gone to platform 2 at Swindon to discover no train. They'd then have to walk back to platform 4 and wait for the next train to Chippenham at 20:30 and hope taxis were still available for Melksham when they got there.

We are privileged within the TransWilts to have some high level contacts within GWR but even we are struggling to get answers.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 15, 2017, 08:46:53
Dispiriting doesn't even come into it.

Indeed.

It was a massive and painful decision to start this thread on a public board when services melted down again last Saturday with a further 4 cancelled journeys out of 16.   However,  our train operator is failing to provide the service it's contracted to provide - missing reliability targets ten fold (up to 2% cancellation can be stood, but not 20%) and letting down customers to the extent that many won't be customers and longer.   And customers let down by a business take a very long time to come back, and spend a lot of time telling their friends, relatives and colleagues all about that letdown even for years after (and if) the issues are fixed.

Passengers cannot travel on promises.  Yes, they can travel on replacement transport when provided. But that's taken up to an hour to provide, and an hour late to work or an hour late home, or a missed connection for which plenty of time had been allowed into an infrequent ongoing piece of public transport, all have serious consequences ... "you're late again - do you want this job", "the children have already gone to bed" or "sorry - your flight has closed".

I do believe that the immediate cause of the majority of cancellations and short runnings of journeys that should be staffed from the Westbury depot is (as declared) a shortage of qualified staff available to run or complete those journeys, and that the shortage is being caused at least in a part by staff being taken off operating current passenger trains in order for them to be trained about the cascaded ones they'll be driving soon.  And I understand that if they're not trained prior to the trains being changed over, we'll end up with a (demoralised) staff team in early 2018, trains sitting in sidings, and a shambles like the early months of 2007 where First's then-team had screwed up so badly that there were official penalties, talk of loss of franchise, and cancellation rates on the TransWilts  (just for example) where our wafer thin service was cancelled more often than it ran.    Yes - we want to avoid that situation again.

"Dispiriting doesn't even come into it."    Indeed. But simply criticising isn't a positive solution.   Saying things are "unacceptable" is like trying to call the bluff of GWR and their suppliers;  we really have little choice but to accept that there's a problem.   Involving MPs, Transport Focus, the DfT, the local council who are the passenger transport authority may add pressure onto the train operator, but it won't "magic" a supply of more staff.

Suggestions?   Yes - I have some. 

1. A thinning out until Christmas of some services that are followed by another in 30 minutes or less (yes, that does drop TransWilts services, but in a controlled way), one or two extra stops on faster trains to ensure that the 30 minute change threshold isn't broken.  Released stock from those suspended trains to be used to strengthen remaining service, and to ensure that hot spares are available where they're supposed to be.

2. Consideration of use of LHCS (Locomotive hauled coaching stock) - perhaps 2 sets; not only to fill gaps, but also to provide motive power for which there are more drivers available.  Yeah - I know we all thought we had seen the last loco hauled scheduled service to Weymouth!

3. A realistic assessment of what can be delivered reliably through the autumn, rather than the public having to find out when they wake up on Saturday morning for a day trip what time the first train runs - is it 09:02 (as scheduled), or 13:02 (as it was last Saturday)?

4. A really good gesture for the New Year that says "sorry - we know we messed you about - here you are to help get things back on a positive growth track for all of us".   My TransWilts hat suggests ... * Two car all day; * early service on Sunday to start back at Warminster and carry on to Swindon (that latter in draft already); * final train of day to be an extra late turn - planned into staff rotas so affordable rather than as a clunky add-on, sorting out late Bristol and Bath to Chippenham and Swindon requirements in the process; * 17:36 ex Swindon extended to Frome, 07:32 from Westbury started back at Frome (daily stock swap at Westbury at 18:20); * 15:12 (or whatever time it runs) to continue to connect with the 16:01 (ish) Portsmouth Harbour train at Westbury.





Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 16, 2017, 09:03:48
Four more cancellations today currently showing, and no prizes for guessing which service is affected by all of them...


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 16, 2017, 09:10:30
For the record the services affected are:

16:33 Westbury to Swindon
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:32 Westbury to Swindon
19:36 Swindon to Westbury

All due to a lack of guards.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 16, 2017, 09:13:11
Deep breaths Graham!!!

Once again down to lack of personnel...............this was the picture on LTV yesterday (Friday afternoon peak), all cancelled,all down to "shortage of train crew" -  there is clearly a serious resourcing problem within GWR, which is not being adequately managed - the reason for the shortage was (of course) not revealed to those who asked them - these are all "new" 387 services so I cannot imagine it would be because they were away training for something else.

16:02 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 16:49
16:09 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 16:42
16:42 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:13
16:58 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:44
17:05 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 17:46
17:14 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:05
17:18 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 17:40
17:42 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:13
17:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 18:10
17:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:43
18:07 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:43
18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48
18:18 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:59
18:42 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 19:14
18:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 19:44
19:12 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 19:53


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 09:23:47
Four more cancellations today currently showing, and no prizes for guessing which service is affected by all of them...

Effect best illustrated on the special poster relating to today's engineering works (we really don't mind pre-announced changes) ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lost_0_20170916.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lost_1_20170916.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/lost_2_20170916.jpg)

Noting the text - "Trains WILL run" ...


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2017, 12:19:53
Are crews starting to defect to Crossrail? They'll need a lot of staff & I understand the benefits are better...


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 16, 2017, 12:44:30
Don't think any staff have transferred to Crossrail yet (don't think anyone operationally from anywhere has yet, other than the TfL Rail drivers working out of Liverpool Street?), though a lot at Paddington where the majority of the 387 training has been concentrated on have moved from the LTV sector to HSS (the salary difference has now risen to circa £8k for an easier job, so you can't blame them!).  That should allow the IET training to not leave HSS so short, but at the expense of LTV services perhaps?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 16, 2017, 14:34:56
For the record the services affected are:

16:33 Westbury to Swindon
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:32 Westbury to Swindon
19:36 Swindon to Westbury

All due to a lack of guards.

17:36 now re-instated


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 14:45:08
For the record the services affected are:

16:33 Westbury to Swindon
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:32 Westbury to Swindon
19:36 Swindon to Westbury

All due to a lack of guards.

17:36 now re-instated

Thank goodness ...

a) How on earth have they managed to do that - but THANK YOU if you're one of the ones who has done it for us.

b) I wonder how many Swindon fans have already planned not to travel by train

c) I'm aware we have very few Stevenage fans in Melksham ;-)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 16, 2017, 14:49:21
I'm guessing - but as the 16:33 from Westbury is still shown as cancelled a driver will be bringing the unit up empty stock from Westbury to form the 17:36 back with a guard available at Swindon, either after being relieved on an incoming service there or sourced from elsewhere and travelling on the cushions to Swindon.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 17:55:42
I'm guessing - but as the 16:33 from Westbury is still shown as cancelled a driver will be bringing the unit up empty stock from Westbury to form the 17:36 back with a guard available at Swindon, either after being relieved on an incoming service there or sourced from elsewhere and travelling on the cushions to Swindon.

Popped down to Melksham Station to record (library purposes) 153 going through nonstop - replacement for public service, no train manager available so no passengers being carried.



Lady waiting on the platform; asked her what train she was waiting for - 16:49, which she showed me on the engineering changes page.  Explained to her it was cancelled; didn't believe me, pointing out these were the changes and it said "these trains will run" instead of the normal service.  Help point saying "please wait while the system restarts", but I suggested she press the help button and ask, because that bit of the help point doesn't have to be waited for.

Various bits of translation by me; lady's comprehension of times and timetables was good, but English weak.  Customer Service Clerk had reasonable English but a difficul accent, and needed to be persuaded to go beyond "it's cancelled" to asking GWR what they could do instead. Ended up with a taxi ...

What a good demonstration of how things can go wrong for even a single passenger - the micro - which is often forgotten in the macro of passenger numbers. Lady had a bus to catch (last one of the day) to rural Swindon - "what if it the taxi doesn't make it" when told she would have to change at Chippenham too. And what a lot of extra people had to be involved and extra hassle when it was just ONE train manager we were short of!

Utterly good call today to get the 17:36 re-instated. But also a lesson about the individual problems caused when a train is cancelled - especially one that's infrequent.  "This is a sh*t service" says the lady. "I won't be using it again".


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2017, 18:29:14
That video just about sums up how pathetic the rail network can be at times. The train runs but no one can use it. Small wonder the lady said what she did. Sad.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 16, 2017, 19:19:42
Wouldn't it be nice to have a service where the train didn't need to be cancelled if the train manager was not available for any reason?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: rogerw on September 16, 2017, 19:42:48
Problems on the Cardiff - Portsmouth service this evening.  1630 ex Cardiff started at Bristol 45 minutes late awaiting train crew (presumably the 1454 Bristol Cardiff was also cancelled).  Following service noted 15 minutes late at Westbury and the next service (1954 ex Trowbridge) shown cancelled.  This will also affect services tomorrow morning as there will be insufficient stock at Fratton unless they double up units on the last service


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: JayMac on September 16, 2017, 21:36:50
Wouldn't it be nice to have a service where the train didn't need to be cancelled if the train manager was not available for any reason?

DOO you mean?

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgTzM5QU5FeVNVTG8)



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ellendune on September 17, 2017, 08:25:24
Wouldn't it be better that the train was not cancelled because there was a train manager available.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 17, 2017, 08:32:00
Of course it would, but that doesn't appear to be the situation we have just now.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on September 17, 2017, 09:21:51
Wouldn't it be better that the train was not cancelled because there was a train manager available.

Wouldn't it be *far* better if both options were available?!!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: bobm on September 17, 2017, 09:26:09
Sadly not to be again today....

Quote
14:35 Westbury to Swindon due 15:21 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 17, 2017, 10:15:43
The usual raft of Sunday cancellations or terminating short on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton line again today. I notice both the 1308 and 1408 both terminating at Westbury meaning a 2 hour wait for anyone heading South. Are GWR laying on replacement transport for those unfortunate to be travelling on either of these two services? Bearing in mind going via Reading is not an option today.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: phile on September 17, 2017, 10:47:50
The usual raft of Sunday cancellations or terminating short on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton line again today. I notice both the 1308 and 1408 both terminating at Westbury meaning a 2 hour wait for anyone heading South. Are GWR laying on replacement transport for those unfortunate to be travelling on either of these two services? Bearing in mind going via Reading is not an option today.

Many more also on that route, seems to be a weekly event now.    I feel Mark Hopwood should come and openly speak out about this and the "more trains than usual under maintenance".    This comment would give the impression that it is just an odd day event but has been going on day in and day out since May.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 17, 2017, 10:49:55
Wouldn't it be nice to have a service where the train didn't need to be cancelled if the train manager was not available for any reason?
DOO you mean?

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgTzM5QU5FeVNVTG8)
Very apt bignosemac. As annoying as having to wait for a guard is, I would be VERY afraid that allowing the train to run without one (even if the franchise agreement said one must be rostered) would allow the TOC to get away with not having enough guards on the payroll (although they seem to be in that suituation as it is). Guards have a very valuable customer service role to play, offering advice during disruption (and sometimes even when everything's running smoothly; if there was somebody who received a penny every time a guard told somebody what platform their connecting train would be leaving from I expect that person would now be fairly rich). The TSI-PRM (Technical Specification for Interoperability - Persons of Reduced Mobility) rules (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.356.01.0110.01.ENG) specify that a universal toilet cubicle "shall be fitted with not less than two call for aid devices", one of which "shall be positioned so that the control can be reached by a person lying on the floor." If somebody has fallen to the floor and is unable to get themselves up I don't think it is right to leave them until the next station (or even longer, in the case of an unstaffed station like Melksham). If somebody calls for assistance, I would hope that the guard is on the scene within a few minutes. A call-for-aid button is also required at wheelchair spaces, perhaps intended to request help alighting at the next station; if so, the presence of on-board staff (other than the driver) is essential. Guards are also a revenue-protection tool and, in my opinion, a far better* one than ticket barriers.

Note that the above also implies that in the case of multiple units coupled together a 'guard' is needed in each unit unless the units have Unit-End Gangways allowing a single guard to access the entire train (although, once you get above 4 or 5 coaches, you probably want additional staff anyway to ensure everyone's ticket gets checked).

So, as nice as it would be to be able to run the train if the guard is taken ill at the last minute, or is supposed to be connecting off a delayed train, I would not support any move to do that without some means of guaranting that a train running without a guard is an extremely rare event. Rarer than the current cancelations due to unavailable guards appear to be** even.

* better from my perspective that is, they are not necessarily as effective in protecting revenue but I hate not being able to wander on and off platforms especially when the toilets are on one side of the barrier only.

** that's just based on the comments here, I'm not a particularly frequent rail user and my last trip (Pembroke Dock to Swindon and return as far as Port Talbot on Saturday the 9th of September) went fine so I don't have first-hand experience of the problems


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 17, 2017, 11:16:22
There's a difference between guards who are needed for the train to run (i.e. they operate the doors), and a second person on board whose primary service is exactly the sort of customer service that you talk about, but who is not essential for the train to run. Indeed, if not needed to open close the doors then they can spend more time selling and checking tickets, particularly when stops are a couple of minutes apart. But if they are not available, the train can still run and passengers are not inconvenienced.

As for the TSI-PRM regarding assistance in toilets, given that all the new Thameslink stock, not to mention much of the other new stock in the London area (including Class 387) are approved to run with only a driver, the authorities are clearly satisfied with the position.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 17, 2017, 11:31:22
There's a difference between guards who are needed for the train to run (i.e. they operate the doors), and a second person on board whose primary service is exactly the sort of customer service that you talk about, but who is not essential for the train to run. Indeed, if not needed to open close the doors then they can spend more time selling and checking tickets, particularly when stops are a couple of minutes apart.
Agreed, I wouldn't mind if the driver unlocked the doors so that the guard can carry on selling tickets. I do however think the guard should continue to close the doors, if only to force the operator to ensure there is a guard on board.

As for the TSI-PRM regarding assistance in toilets, given that all the new Thameslink stock, not to mention much of the other new stock in the London area (including Class 387) are approved to run with only a driver, the authorities are clearly satisfied with the position.
Sadly yes, it does seem that the authorities are satisified with making decent customer service optional and making the call-for-aid buttons rather pointless (indeed, is having a button to summon help that doesn't come even more distressing for a passenger in need than not having a button at all?). My opinion is that the attitude of government and TOCs towards customer service is unacceptable. As well as the efforts to force through Driver Only Operation on Southern, if they took passenger's well-being seriously the new fleet of short DMUs for Northern would have Unit-End-Gangways for example.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 17, 2017, 11:38:26
Sadly yes, it does seem that the authorities are satisified with making decent customer service optional and making the call-for-aid buttons rather pointless (indeed, is having a button to summon help that doesn't come even more distressing for a passenger in need than not having a button at all?). My opinion is that the attitude of government and TOCs towards customer service is unacceptable. As well as the efforts to force through Driver Only Operation on Southern, if they took passenger's well-being seriously the new fleet of short DMUs for Northern would have Unit-End-Gangways for example.

The call-for-aid on DOO trains alerts the driver who, when safe, can speak to the person who's activated it from their cab, they can then stop the train and attend to the problem or arrange for assistance at the next station, depending on the nature of the problem.  I won't say it's ideal, but it's better than you portray.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 17, 2017, 12:14:09
The usual raft of Sunday cancellations or terminating short on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton line again today. I notice both the 1308 and 1408 both terminating at Westbury meaning a 2 hour wait for anyone heading South. Are GWR laying on replacement transport for those unfortunate to be travelling on either of these two services? Bearing in mind going via Reading is not an option today.

Many more also on that route, seems to be a weekly event now.    I feel Mark Hopwood should come and openly speak out about this and the "more trains than usual under maintenance".    This comment would give the impression that it is just an odd day event but has been going on day in and day out since May.

The 1208 Cardiff-Brighton service isn't running beyond Westbury either so that's a three hour gap with nothing going south of Salisbury. That says to me that GWR have a serious shortage of staff if they have to cancel three services in a row. How they are allowed to get away with operating such a poor service every single weekend is beyond me.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 17, 2017, 12:14:51
...if they took passenger's well-being seriously the new fleet of short DMUs for Northern would have Unit-End-Gangways for example.
Never miss an opportunity to raise the subject of Unit End Gangways, eh?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: RA on September 17, 2017, 12:30:54
The usual raft of Sunday cancellations or terminating short on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton line again today. I notice both the 1308 and 1408 both terminating at Westbury meaning a 2 hour wait for anyone heading South. Are GWR laying on replacement transport for those unfortunate to be travelling on either of these two services? Bearing in mind going via Reading is not an option today.

Fratton and Westbury depots seem to be a problem every Sunday for guards. It is now a vicious circle with staff not wanting to opt in for an extra Sunday because they know there will be problems and alterations, which in turn are caused by a shortage of staff to start with.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Trowres on September 17, 2017, 21:25:53
From RAIL magazine October3- October16 2001:

Quote
The Rail Passengers' Committee for Wales and Western England and the London Transport Users' Committee...have commenced an investigation into the quality of train, station and associated service provided by First Great Western and opinions held by users and potential users of those services about them.

The Committees consider that these are matters which they have a statutory duty to investigate because:
(iii) the volume of complaints received from First Great Western passengers;
(iv) representations made to the Committees about the services provided by First Great Western under its franchise agreement with the Strategic Rail Authority;
(v) comments made by the relevant Assemblies, and by regional and local authorities and the media about the services provided by First Great Western;
(i) the persistent failure by First Great Western to achieve its punctuality and reliability targets and varying reasons stated by various parties about the reasons for its failure to achieve them;
(ii) the application by First Great Western for a two-year extension of its franchise.

Issues that will be examined in the course of the investigation include:
(i) the strengths and weaknesses of the services currently provided by First Great Western under its franchise;
(ii) the extent to which the services currently provided by third parties, such as Railtrack and other train operating companies, impact on the performance of First Great Western;
(iii) specific actions that might be undertaken by the owners and managers of First Great Western and other parties;
(iv) the conditions of First Great Western's franchise agreement.





Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 17, 2017, 22:24:01
... and what was the outcome of that investigation, back in October 2001?   ::)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Trowres on September 17, 2017, 22:44:43
Haven't found the report. Extract from London Evening Standard online:
https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-84451790/passengers-have-no-confidence-in-rail-firm-s-claims (https://www.questia.com/newspaper/1G1-84451790/passengers-have-no-confidence-in-rail-firm-s-claims)

Quote
COMMUTERS have lost faith in those responsible for running the railways with anger over late and cancelled services, made worse by sour - or absent - staff at the ticket barriers, the national rail watchdog concludes today.

What many passengers find infuriating are the repeated and "premature" promises by the rail companies that their service will get better. Travellers have been left "badly bruised" as a result of poor performance and unwarranted claims.

<snip>

The RPC calls for a "major upgrade" of the ailing infrastructure to allow FGW to expand its operations and provide the best services for passengers.




Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 17, 2017, 22:51:11
Hmm.  I must have been in hibernation for the past sixteen years - only to wake up and find that absolutely nothing has changed.  ::)



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 18, 2017, 14:04:17
Quote
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44
12:47 Swindon to Frome due 13:44 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Frome.
It has been delayed between Swindon and Chippenham and is now 22 minutes late.
This is due to a fault with the signalling system.

14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04
14:04 Frome to Swindon due 15:04 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Frome.
This is due to a fault with the signalling system.

OK - not half as bad as we've seen (but sorry, Frome).  Notable as being the first report in this thread that's attributable to Network Rail!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 20, 2017, 08:30:35
It's interesting (and disappointing, if understandable) to see comments critical of the service appearing on the TW Facebook page.  But it should serve as a reminder that as time goes on, people will start to forget (if they were ever aware) how poor the previous service was. So the "well it's still better than it was" view will be replaced by objective criticism of timekeeping/overcrowding/reliability/frequency.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: plymothian on September 20, 2017, 09:32:34
People have very short memories; as witnessed every election  ;).


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 20, 2017, 19:55:09
It's interesting (and disappointing, if understandable) to see comments critical of the service appearing on the TW Facebook page.  But it should serve as a reminder that as time goes on, people will start to forget (if they were ever aware) how poor the previous service was. So the "well it's still better than it was" view will be replaced by objective criticism of timekeeping/overcrowding/reliability/frequency.

Two MORE cancellations this evening due to train failure ... though this time I don't think it was one of GWR's trains that failed.   And a message that a third train was skipping Melksham though looking at real time trains I think the stop was re-instated.

Gentlemen, you'll note that even I am echoing the comments that are critical of the service.   We have moved from a service that was so diabolical it did nothing for 99% of travellers who wanted to go up and down the corridor to a service that is at the lower end of the appropriate frequency for the flows and passenger needs, is overcrowded much of the time, and has a shocking cancellation record at present.   The fact that it's full and standing up the aisle even at the very mediocre performance level shows just how much its needed / loved even in this condition.

We can learn from what we've achieved so far - and we can partner with the train and infrastructure operators and local transport authority to move towards capacity (2 cars please), reliability (staff for every train that's timetabled, please) and frequency (hourly, please) which will answer much of that criticism, and that criticism helps add power to our elbow where that partnering has to verge on complaining or campaigning.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 21, 2017, 08:53:47
After 2 service lost last night, another lost this morning - the 07:04 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa via Swindon.

I was at Chippenham at five past eight when the 08:00 to Swindon (first running train today Westbury to Swindon) pulled in.  42 off the front door, 35 off at the rear door. Report of 91 on the ongoing train.    Looked to me like about 25 got on, so it brought about 143 into Chippenham ... that fits with its "jammed up the aisles" appearance.   

Usual number off that train at Melksham is 10 ... so it had conveyed 153 passengers on the section unique to the TransWilts.  We have joked about carrying 153 passengers on the line on a 153 (single carriage train).  Well - looks like we've done it.

Regulars who know me well and know that I am doing what little I can to persuade GWR to strengthen our service sooner rather than later gave me a cheery smile and looked up as if to say "here we go again".  One gentleman who thinks I have a lot more ability to get stuff done than I have was pretty strong in his language to me ...


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 09:19:56
Perhaps a TransWilts 'Don't shoot the messenger' badge could be worn on such occasions!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: phile on September 21, 2017, 20:44:58
LTV Cancellations due to Traincrew shortage worse than ever today


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 24, 2017, 06:52:39
Anyone got a graphic for "The five use rail replacement buses" or "the 5 persuade a taxi driver to accept a dog in his cab?"

Welcome to a typical autumn Sunday ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/melt_20170924.jpg)

From Journeycheck

Quote
0 Line Updates
48 Train Cancellations
21 Other Train Service Updates
0 Train Formation Updates

Not been through them all, but I can see three reasons

Quote
09:00 Westbury to Chippenham due 09:29
09:00 Westbury to Chippenham due 09:29 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

14:27 Exmouth to Paignton due 15:49
14:27 Exmouth to Paignton due 15:49 will be started from Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Exmouth, Lympstone Village, Lympstone Commando, Exton, Topsham, Newcourt, Digby & Sowton and Exeter Central.
This is due to a shortage of train guards.

18:48 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51
18:48 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Dilton Marsh, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

My journey today - Melksham to CityWest, Dublin.    I had better go activate my backup plan.  If I miss the connection at Holyhead, they won't lay on a replacement bus or taxi!




Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 24, 2017, 08:02:05
Anyone got a graphic for "The five use rail replacement buses" or "the 5 persuade a taxi driver to accept a dog in his cab?"

Welcome to a typical autumn Sunday ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/melt_20170924.jpg)

From Journeycheck

48 Train Cancellations
21 Other Train Service Updates
0 Train Formation Updates

Hmmmmm this is more the reality of travelling GWR than what their latest marketing campaign shows. That advert of travelling GWR is as much fantasy as the Famous 5 are. They've got a nerve running it quite frankly.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 24, 2017, 08:24:14
Anyone got a graphic for "The five use rail replacement buses" or "the 5 persuade a taxi driver to accept a dog in his cab?"

Welcome to a typical autumn Sunday ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/melt_20170924.jpg)

From Journeycheck

Quote
0 Line Updates
48 Train Cancellations
21 Other Train Service Updates
0 Train Formation Updates

Not been through them all, but I can see three reasons

Quote
09:00 Westbury to Chippenham due 09:29
09:00 Westbury to Chippenham due 09:29 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

14:27 Exmouth to Paignton due 15:49
14:27 Exmouth to Paignton due 15:49 will be started from Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Exmouth, Lympstone Village, Lympstone Commando, Exton, Topsham, Newcourt, Digby & Sowton and Exeter Central.
This is due to a shortage of train guards.

18:48 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51
18:48 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Dilton Marsh, Warminster, Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Fareham, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

My journey today - Melksham to CityWest, Dublin.    I had better go activate my backup plan.  If I miss the connection at Holyhead, they won't lay on a replacement bus or taxi!




Good Luck!

Hopefully you'll have time to enjoy watching the "Famous Five" advert at some stage Graham! (no gnashing of teeth in public please!!!)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on September 24, 2017, 09:17:59
Hopefully you'll have time to enjoy watching the "Famous Five" advert at some stage Graham! (no gnashing of teeth in public please!!!)

Four on a bus today ... couldn't take Timmy the dog on the rail replacement  :-\

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fouronabus.jpg)
- thanks to Lisa for the artwork

Greetings from Chippenham
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/melt_cpm_20170924.jpg)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 24, 2017, 10:03:27
Top two HSTs both in reverse formation as well.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: froome on September 24, 2017, 12:18:55
I was due to be travelling back from Worthing yesterday on one of GWR's through trains to Bristol. However, it didn't appear on the screen, and when i questioned the station staff all they could say was that it isn't run by their company and they are given no information about it. I still have no idea why it didn't run. So we had to change at Fratton (oh joy!).


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: paul7575 on September 24, 2017, 12:47:14
I was due to be travelling back from Worthing yesterday on one of GWR's through trains to Bristol. However, it didn't appear on the screen, and when i questioned the station staff all they could say was that it isn't run by their company and they are given no information about it. I still have no idea why it didn't run. So we had to change at Fratton (oh joy!).

The afternoon eastbound train was cancelled east of Southampton due to a trespass incident presumably making it late at Southampton.  Now if I can find that out on RTT the next day, you'd expect SN station staff would be able to do it using internal systems at the time you asked...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23754/2017/09/23/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C23773/2017/09/23/advanced

Is it worth an emailed complaint?  Only you can say, I expect you'd just get the usual sort of meaningless explanation.

Paul



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: froome on September 24, 2017, 12:52:28
The screen did actually have a rolling notice saying there had been a trespass incident, but it didn't say where or which services were affected. And the staff didn't mention it when asked.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 24, 2017, 15:26:43
Quote
Four on a bus today ... couldn't take Timmy the dog on the rail replacement  :-\

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/fouronabus.jpg)

So which one is you then Graham?  ;D


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: froome on September 25, 2017, 08:35:10
The screen did actually have a rolling notice saying there had been a trespass incident, but it didn't say where or which services were affected. And the staff didn't mention it when asked.

The most frustrating aspect of this is that if a train is cancelled, you would expect it to still appear on the screen but with CANCELLED written against it, and announcements over the tannoy apologising for this. Here there was nothing to show the journey had ever existed, and I began to doubt my own sanity, even though my ticket specifically had the train time written on it.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Western Pathfinder on September 25, 2017, 08:36:57
Thought I might just leave this here !
http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/national-rail-awards-2017-mark-hopwood-managing-director-great-western-railway-wins-outstanding-personal-contribution-senior-management.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 25, 2017, 10:15:52
Quote
Through all of this Mark has led his team calmly and without fanfare, overcoming every difficulty that has been placed in their way, and managing to improve the passenger experience along the way.
:D


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 25, 2017, 10:29:26
I've posted a comment on the article, but whether it will get through moderation remains to be seen!


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: NickB on September 25, 2017, 12:58:29
Likewise, I've contributed my thoughts too.
To my mind this is further demonstration of a 'head in sand' approach to service provision.  If GWR and 'the rail industry' think that Mark Hopwood and his company's provision is anything other than contemptuous then there is no chance of them changing their behaviour.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: BandHcommuter on September 25, 2017, 13:23:12
Thought I might just leave this here !
http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/national-rail-awards-2017-mark-hopwood-managing-director-great-western-railway-wins-outstanding-personal-contribution-senior-management.
The rail industry seems to shower itself with plaudits with a whole range of annual awards (e.g. Rail Staff Awards, National Rail Awards, Rail Industry Innovation, Golden Spanners Golden Whistles etc.). In the main, these seem to be inward looking rather than being representative of passenger experience. It may well be that the MD of GWR has made the best of a bad situation and it could have been a whole lot worse, but that's not what passengers currently see.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Henry on September 25, 2017, 17:21:27

 I wonder who came second ?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 25, 2017, 17:56:51
I wonder who came second ?
MD of Southern Rail?


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 25, 2017, 18:11:04
I wonder who came second ?
MD of Southern Rail?

Thomas the Tank Engine.......after a recount he just edged out Coco the Clown.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on September 25, 2017, 18:19:03
Likewise, I've contributed my thoughts too.
To my mind this is further demonstration of a 'head in sand' approach to service provision.  If GWR and 'the rail industry' think that Mark Hopwood and his company's provision is anything other than contemptuous then there is no chance of them changing their behaviour.
It's quite clear that there is a heck of a lot of delusion in the Rail industry with the thinking that they provide a good service and yes there are times that they do.

No one would deny that First have been up against it with the GW franchise with many things out of their control. What I struggle with is the things that are within their control, such as providing adequate crew to provide the advertised timetable, that is unacceptable.



Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: NickB on September 25, 2017, 18:47:40
Blimey - Rail Magazine posted my comments.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 25, 2017, 18:56:10
Well said, Sir :)


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: John R on September 25, 2017, 19:54:19
Curiously my comments weren't, although I don't think they were in any way (tone or content) more controversial than Nick's. Indeed, they were very similar, and it's good to see that a different view of GWR's performance has been noted.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on October 08, 2017, 08:10:53
Here we go again?

Quote
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Two out of 5 cancellations in GWR area on the TransWilts - that's 40% of the pain on "our" line, and it's last service of the day gone in each direction - have a great day out and finish it with an experience of rail replacement transport you hadn't bargained for.

We have had a reply from the top to our letter asking some serious questions.  The answers are good ones, though to questions that are subtly different to the ones we asked. 

Real answer, I guess, is it will take time to put right. I did have some conversations in Derby looking to get indications of timescales and feel better informed now - but the answers really too woolly to take any form of certainty in my mind.




Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on October 08, 2017, 09:53:45

Two out of 5 cancellations in GWR area on the TransWilts - that's 40% of the pain on "our" line ...


OK - it's much better now. Up to 13 cancellations and still only 2 on TransWilts - down from 40% of the cancellations to just 15%. Feeling much less picked on!

For those who don't know me, please read dark humour into this.  It is utterly poor practise to cancel trains because you haven't got enough people to drive them on more than very rare occasions indeed.   And it's a travesty of statistical analysis to suggest things are getting better for us because there are more cancellations being added elsewhere.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: Timmer on October 08, 2017, 10:00:06
[sigh]After a relatively good service running last Sunday normal service has been resumed but with HSS joining in the fun too.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: ChrisB on October 08, 2017, 10:15:51
Graham - they are likely to pick least affected by number of overall pax on depots with shortages, and affected connections etc. so its no surprise yours get culled when Westbury are short? Most Westbury drivers are surely on long(er) distance services that will have far more effect on pax than short Westbury/Swindons that can be covered by taxis when necessary.

Think of the effect cancelking say, two trips to Portsmouth/Southampton or Weymouth would cause


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 08, 2017, 10:19:47
Shortage of drivers but no shortage of cows!

Cancellations to services between Swindon and Bristol Parkway


Due to cattle on the railway between Swindon and Bristol Parkway all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 11:30 08/10.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on October 08, 2017, 10:38:35
Think of the effect cancelking say, two trips to Portsmouth/Southampton or Weymouth would cause

It is indeed no surprise when the TransWilts gets cancelled. Experience shows us that.

Whether it's best to cancel the TransWilts or (say) a Westbury to Bristol, with the following Cardiff - Portsmouth picking up some of the calls instead, is a decision which has to be made.  There are going to be certain services which are key ones and I agree with you, Chris, that they should be priorised.  To compare them to the TransWilts - which is not what I did - is a fallacious argument.


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: WelshBluebird on October 08, 2017, 23:47:00
Certainly didn't give a good impression today. Just one 153 on the 12.23 Oldfield Park to Bristol Temple Meads (ex Castle Cary). Just about managed to squeeze on, but at least a couple of people left on the platform at Oldfield Park (including a lady with a bike). Guard only just managed to squeeze back on and into the cab! Then at Keynsham a couple of people just about managed to squeeze off but the guard pretty much told everyone on the platform don't even bother trying to get on. Some very rightfully unhappy people there, including a group who were supposed to be going for a meal in Bristol (next time I doubt they will bother with the train and will get the bus instead!).

To the lay person it must feel like GWR simply don't want their custom (which tbh, if the situation with short formed services and cancelations continues much longer, that may well be the case!).


Title: Re: Service meltdown - advice is to use other means to travel
Post by: grahame on October 09, 2017, 06:14:19
To the lay person it must feel like GWR simply don't want their custom (which tbh, if the situation with short formed services and cancelations continues much longer, that may well be the case!).

Custom is already being lost - not a question of "if it continues much longer", I'm afraid.   

And the traffic that's being lost won't spring back as if there had never been a problem as and when the issues are fixed. Each train that's so short formed that people can't comfortably get on, and each train cancelled on the day it's supposed to run and is in people's plans, looses goodwill and custom not only in that train but for their future train journeys too. 

First (Great Western Railway) do want the farebox income from passengers - they do want the custom - during the current franchise, where it is profitable.  You could argue that where a service cannot run, cannot take everyone, or fails to make an advertised connection, the accountants would prefer people not to travel by train or rather by that train replacement, as it typically costs more to provide than the income generated; having them travel at another time / another day would be better for the balance sheet, should they travel at all.

Building business for the time beyond the current franchise is much muddier water.   If the state of the system and passenger base is significantly lower at the time of bidding for the next seven or so years, then bids will most likely be lower and the long term financial effects from that will be born not by the next operator, but by the public.  That may be in the form of general taxation (via the less positive franchise payment effecting the UK economy), it may be in the form of fare and other ancillary payments such as car parking charges, and it may be in the form of offering a cheaper to run lesser service in the franchise.

At times, we tend to look at (and make decisions) based on direction and rate of change, rather than on current performance. So rate of change from a very low base back to(wards) where it should be will, I expect, be a major element - and a positive one - as the current incumbents bid for the next franchise.   The cynic would suggest than a poor autumn in 2017 followed by an excellent recovery from that though 2018 could be "just what the doctor ordered", especially with so much of the blame for current problems being directly and indirectly attributable to the slippage of electrification, and with it slippage of new stock and cascades.  Of course, that does rely on an excellent recovery, or at least signs of one, in the not too distant future now ...





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