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Journey by Journey => London to the West => Topic started by: Adelante_CCT on September 09, 2017, 08:50:13 pm



Title: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 09, 2017, 08:50:13 pm
It has been discussed on a few threads in the past on this forum (currently unable to find them) of a desire for an earlier service from Paddington to Devon/Cornwall with GWR announcing they would be running a 06:37c in the franchise agreement.

Looking into a crystal ball* (https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C55466/2018-01-02) it would appear that this new service will start in January as follows:

Paddington 06:33
Reading 07:01
Taunton 08:18
Exeter arrives 08:41
Newton Abbot arrives 09:03
Plymouth arrives 09:41
Followed by stations to Penzance arriving at 11:37

As a result, the 07:06 to Penzance and 07:30 to Paignton will swap round back to how it was a few years ago forming the 07:03 to Paignton via Westbury and the 07:30 to Penzance via Bristol.


On a side note the 05:46 from Exeter to Paddington will start back from Plymouth at 04:51 calling at Newton Abbot 05:27 and departs Exeter at 05:52 running slightly later at the following stations but still arriving at Reading 08:07 and Paddington 08:37


In terms of later trains the 19:45 from Paddington to Plymouth becomes the 20:03 and the 20:35 becomes the 21:03

*Please note this crystal ball can malfunction from time to time and is to only be used as a guide to potential services from January


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: Timmer on September 09, 2017, 09:14:58 pm
The crystal ball is correct, the WoE timetable has quite a makeover from January with quite a number of changes the main ones being the ones you have listed.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2017, 09:20:29 pm
Certainly a step in the right direction.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: bobm on September 09, 2017, 09:34:20 pm
One of the other significant changes is the 10:00 Torbay Express from London Paddington will from January leave at 10:35 and go via the Berks & Hants rather than Bristol.

It will save some confusion at Reading where two trains to the West arrive within four minutes either side of 10:30 - with the first train being the slower one but only available to peak ticket holders, while the faster one accepts off peak tickets.

In the main from January trains for Plymouth and beyond will leave Paddington at XX:03 throughout the day rather than XX:05 or XX:06.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 12, 2017, 07:51:05 pm
All very good, but have you noticed how some of the existing transit times have been stretched by up to 5 mins and in some cases there are extended stops at Plymouth.  This applies in both directions ::)  Obviously getting ready for slower trains and dividing/combining sets at Plymouth :P


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2017, 08:07:44 pm
How on earth do you reach that conclusion?

Clock face timetable means a complete recast. No one yet knows the dwell times.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 12, 2017, 08:22:59 pm
If you look at the all day service pattern in the RTT link posted above you will see what I mean.....


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: bignosemac on September 12, 2017, 08:27:57 pm
1234 Paddington - Taunton 1435 apparently gets a restaurant, according to the draft timetable, from January 2018.

That must be an error.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 12, 2017, 10:25:28 pm
All very good, but have you noticed how some of the existing transit times have been stretched by up to 5 mins and in some cases there are extended stops at Plymouth.  This applies in both directions ::)  Obviously getting ready for slower trains and dividing/combining sets at Plymouth :P

Loads of trains get delay minutes at Plymouth, as the dwell times aren't long enough.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 13, 2017, 10:32:50 am
An example of the extended time is the 0505 Penzance to London Paddington which will have the same departure time at Penzance as now and will arrive into London Paddington one minute later than now.  However, its Plymouth call will be 0649 to 0653 (two minutes earler than now) so the Plymouth journey time has been extended by three minutes overall.  That is only one example, others have a much longer journey time extension from intermediate stations.... :P


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ChrisB on September 13, 2017, 10:52:50 am
Isn't there going to be a new 2019 timetable, once all the IEPs are in service? Dwell times with auto door closing will be much reduced then.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: bobm on September 13, 2017, 01:16:22 pm
All very good, but have you noticed how some of the existing transit times have been stretched by up to 5 mins and in some cases there are extended stops at Plymouth.  This applies in both directions ::)  Obviously getting ready for slower trains and dividing/combining sets at Plymouth :P

Loads of trains get delay minutes at Plymouth, as the dwell times aren't long enough.

One of the problems at Plymouth is many trains have catering stores loaded or unloaded there.  It would help if onboard staff could direct passengers wishing to alight to alternative doors.  At present Rail Gourmet have to wait for all the passengers wishing to leave from the door adjacent to the buffet coach to get off before they can get the ramp to the train and load the supplies.   It is a particular issue when putting on the modules for the Pullmans but also affects almost all HST services as they take on buffet stock at Plymouth.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ZoŽ on September 13, 2017, 08:28:07 pm
1234 Paddington - Taunton 1435 apparently gets a restaurant, according to the draft timetable, from January 2018.
I also note that the return working of this train which leaves Taunton at 1533 and called at Castle Cary, Westbury, Pewsey, Newbury, Reading and London Paddington is followed just 31 minutes later by the 1454 Paignton to Paddington which has the same stopping pattern except for Newbury.  Quite an intensive service for some of the stations on the Berks & Hants.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: DaveHarries on September 19, 2017, 12:53:33 am
The crystal ball is correct, the WoE timetable has quite a makeover from January with quite a number of changes the main ones being the ones you have listed.
Just looked on OpenTrainTimes and found this so the Crystal ball is certainly in good order.

1A71 0451 Plymouth - London Paddington
http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C55276/2018-01-24

Dave


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: RA on October 31, 2017, 11:37:24 pm
It has been discussed on a few threads in the past on this forum (currently unable to find them) of a desire for an earlier service from Paddington to Devon/Cornwall with GWR announcing they would be running a 06:37c in the franchise agreement.

Looking into a crystal ball* (https://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/C55466/2018-01-02) it would appear that this new service will start in January as follows:

Paddington 06:33
Reading 07:01
Taunton 08:18
Exeter arrives 08:41
Newton Abbot arrives 09:03
Plymouth arrives 09:41
Followed by stations to Penzance arriving at 11:37

As a result, the 07:06 to Penzance and 07:30 to Paignton will swap round back to how it was a few years ago forming the 07:03 to Paignton via Westbury and the 07:30 to Penzance via Bristol.

My personal views on the revised West of England services from January.

The earlier service is very welcome and useful, however for the good people of Somerset and West Wiltshire (or people changing trains there) it is a shame that a call at Westbury or Castle Cary (which would allow a change out of the 06:46 Westbury to Weymouth service if the time penalty of calling at Westbury is deemed too high) could not be made. As a West Wiltshire resident, if I want to travel to Plymouth and Cornwall early in the day the only option I currently have is to make my way to Bath Spa to catch the 06:09 Bath Spa to Glasgow Central service to Bristol Temple Meads (not sure on the long term future of this train starting at Bath after the Cross Country service consultation) to connect into either the 06:34 service to Plymouth or the 06:43 service to Penzance. The next train to Devon from Bristol is not until 08:10, and this goes to Paignton, with a further change required for Plymouth and Cornwall.

Unfortunately, there is no decent connection at Taunton from Bristol into the new earlier London to Penzance service. As an aside, the 05:54 service from Chippenham provides a 'connection' at Reading into the new earlier London to Penzance service, albeit most definitely not a permitted route and many miles in the wrong direction, let alone the fare implications!

The 08:26 service from Westbury will revert to running to Paignton again instead of Penzance. A change of train will be required at Newton Abbot for Plymouth. If you are heading to Cornwall you have to wait for the 07:30 London Paddington to Penzance (via Bath and Bristol) service, which has swapped destinations with the Paignton service.

Castle Cary does not see a westbound train until 10:27 (the same as the current timetable) requiring passengers from there and the Weymouth line to 'double back' via Westbury to catch the 08:26 Paignton service from Westbury. Some tickets permit this depending on the origin and destination, but there are plenty that do not.

The reinstatement of the 13:56 Westbury to Taunton (12:34 from London Paddington to Taunton) service is welcome, providing connections out of trains from Swindon, Southampton, Bath and West Wiltshire, with connections at Taunton for Plymouth. The introduction of the 13:01 service from Westbury to Exeter in the current timetable in lieu of the 13:56 service to Taunton was not well received as it is too close behind the preceding service, doesn't stop at Castle Cary and it increased the size of the gap in afternoon westbound services (the next service west from Westbury is not until 16:23). The train will also call at Castle Cary, as will the 10:35 London Paddington to Paignton service, although the 11:06 service from London Paddington will cease to call there (a connection is available into a Weymouth service at Westbury for Castle Cary but this also means that there is no longer a connection out of the 11:10 service from Weymouth).



Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ChrisB on November 01, 2017, 08:24:20 am
There are a number of connections from other origins that might also connect into that earlier train - of course, it can't stop everywhere otherwise it defeats the primary objective of being early into Plymouth.

Plymouth made the case. Others need to make the case, but I suspect numbers would be very small. Get an early service from all points that pass through Westbury for a decent connection with this train & one *might* be able to make a case. I'd be interested to see numbers though


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: grahame on November 01, 2017, 09:00:23 am
There are a number of connections from other origins that might also connect into that earlier train - of course, it can't stop everywhere otherwise it defeats the primary objective of being early into Plymouth.

Plymouth made the case. Others need to make the case, but I suspect numbers would be very small. Get an early service from all points that pass through Westbury for a decent connection with this train & one *might* be able to make a case. I'd be interested to see numbers though

Bearing in mind that rail passenger numbers are still quite low at 06:30 and pick up rapidly after 7 a.m., there would be logic in having this sponge in passengers at 07:45 at Westbury.  No figures straight away for you, ChrisB, but I agree there's a case to be made.

Looking at similar services, I understand that the 06:30 off Paddington to Bristol isn't one of the day's busiest trains from London.  As it heads west picking up at Swindon and Chippenham, it becomes rammed ...


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ChrisB on November 01, 2017, 09:04:59 am
....and generally empties at BRI, in my experience. It doesn't then get busy until EXD


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: grahame on November 01, 2017, 09:37:23 am
Looking at similar services, I understand that the 06:30 off Paddington to Bristol isn't one of the day's busiest trains from London.  As it heads west picking up at Swindon and Chippenham, it becomes rammed ...

....and generally empties at BRI, in my experience.

Indeed it does. It terminated there  ;D


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ellendune on November 01, 2017, 09:43:25 am
Looking at similar services, I understand that the 06:30 off Paddington to Bristol isn't one of the day's busiest trains from London.  As it heads west picking up at Swindon and Chippenham, it becomes rammed ...

....and generally empties at BRI, in my experience.

Indeed it does. It terminated there  ;D

It is the 07:30 PAD to BRI that goes on to Paignton.  So tempting some mornings when trying to catch the 08:35 SWI to PAD for a days meetings. 


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ZoŽ on December 07, 2017, 01:49:56 pm
Looking into a crystal ball* it would appear that this new service will start in January as follows:

Paddington 06:33
Reading 07:01
Taunton 08:18
Exeter arrives 08:41
Newton Abbot arrives 09:03
Plymouth arrives 09:41
Followed by stations to Penzance arriving at 11:37
The Newton Abbot call has been removed and the service now arrives in Plymouth at 09:33 (public)/09:37 WTT.  The 2015 franchise agreement required all down trains to call at Newton Abbot (except for certain additional services which didn't cover this time period) but presumably this has now been updated to allow a headline three hour journey time to Plymouth.  The service does however wait at Plymouth until 0945 since there is a stopper (ex Bristol) running ahead of it which it would get too close to by west Cornwall.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 07, 2017, 03:17:11 pm
09:33 public, so the train is scheduled to arrive 4 minutes late everyday, that's just silly


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: grahame on December 07, 2017, 06:30:33 pm
09:33 public, so the train is scheduled to arrive 4 minutes late everyday, that's just silly

Could always cut out the Reading or Exeter stops to allow a 3 hour on time arrival on that critical 3 hour run which (as I understand we are being told) is the make or break of the entire future of business in the Plymouth area.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 07, 2017, 06:46:20 pm
Looking into a crystal ball* it would appear that this new service will start in January as follows:

Paddington 06:33
Reading 07:01
Taunton 08:18
Exeter arrives 08:41
Newton Abbot arrives 09:03
Plymouth arrives 09:41
Followed by stations to Penzance arriving at 11:37

The Newton Abbot call has been removed and the service now arrives in Plymouth at 09:33 (public)/09:37 WTT.  The 2015 franchise agreement required all down trains to call at Newton Abbot (except for certain additional services which didn't cover this time period) but presumably this has now been updated to allow a headline three hour journey time to Plymouth.  The service does however wait at Plymouth until 0945 since there is a stopper (ex Bristol) running ahead of it which it would get too close to by west Cornwall.

Think thats an error in RTT.  The NR electronic public timetable (effective 01 January 2018) shows the Plymouth arrival as 0938.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: ZoŽ on December 07, 2017, 07:06:23 pm
Think thats an error in RTT.  The NR electronic public timetable (effective 01 January 2018) shows the Plymouth arrival as 0938.
It says 0933 in the CIF but if this is indeed an error then it seems to have cascaded through to the GWR printed timetable which also says 0933.


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 07, 2017, 07:17:26 pm
Journey planners have it down as 09:33 as well, as Zoe says no doubt for 3hr headline journey


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: bobm on December 07, 2017, 08:07:34 pm
So we run trains for headline writers rather than passengers now?


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: didcotdean on December 07, 2017, 08:36:09 pm
09:33 public, so the train is scheduled to arrive 4 minutes late everyday, that's just silly

Reggie Perrin lives!


Title: Re: Earlier Service to Cornwall - Jan 2018
Post by: Louis94 on December 08, 2017, 11:00:03 am
09:33 public, so the train is scheduled to arrive 4 minutes late everyday, that's just silly

Not the only train in that direction that is like this. To a lesser extent 1003/1203 from Paddington are both booked into Plymouth a minute earlier to make the headline journey time, and have been for years. In more recent timetable changes Exeter also joined the party on these trains, 2 minutes earlier on the 1003 and 1 minute earlier on the 1203 in January.

Although arguably, in the case of 1003/1203 from Paddington, if the train is given a clear run and there are no temporary or emergency speed restrictions, the public times are perfectly achievable because they are the WTT with the engineering allowances removed.

In the case of the 0633 from Paddington the running time in the passenger timetable from Exeter to Plymouth is 51 minutes, which arguable is achievable - i've been on trains that have done the run in 50 minutes. However in this case the working timetable running time is 53Ĺ minutes, including one minute engineering allowance - so 52Ĺ minutes without the allowance. So whilst it might be possible to do the public timetable running time under the right conditions, it certainly won't be possible all the time.