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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: broadgage on September 15, 2017, 09:11:09



Title: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: broadgage on September 15, 2017, 09:11:09
Early reports state that an explosion has occurred an a LUL train at Parsons Green, southwest London. This is an open air part of the LUL network, significantly above street level.

The initial reports state that it was a relatively small explosion, possibly in a white plastic bucket contained in a supermarket bag.

It is not clear if this was an accident or a deliberate attack. Emergency services are at the scene in considerable numbers.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: grahame on September 15, 2017, 09:12:31
BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545)

Quote
Police are investigating an "incident" on a District Line underground train at Parsons Green, south-west London.

Officers and ambulance staff are on the scene following reports on social media of an "explosion" in a carriage.

A picture on social media showed a white bucket inside a supermarket bag, but does not appear to show extensive damage in the carriage.

Like an e-cigarette gone wrong in some chap's bag of stuff he's taking with him to his painting and decorating job?   Time will tell!


Edit - I have merged with Broadgage who got in with a new topic a minute before me!


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: broadgage on September 15, 2017, 09:18:12
Pictures in slightly later reports show a white plastic bucket and plastic packing materials burning on the carriage floor.
No significant damage to the carriage can be seen.

No reports of deaths or serious injuries, hopefully there are none.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2017, 09:20:51
I think there'll be a sensible explanation to this one - Graham may well be right.

Can understand the panic though - hopefully it'll subside each time it isn't anything terror related.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 15, 2017, 10:57:34
An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41278545):

Quote
Parsons Green: London Tube blast treated as terror incident

An explosion on a Tube train in south-west London is being treated as terrorism, Scotland Yard has said.

Passengers were injured following the blast at 08:20 BST (07:20 GMT) at Parsons Green station.

Pictures show a white bucket on fire inside a supermarket bag, but do not appear to show extensive damage to the inside of the carriage.

The Metropolitan Police said "a number of people" had been injured and advised people to avoid the area.

It was too early to confirm the cause of the fire and the station has been cordoned off, the statement said.

Prime Minister Theresa May tweeted: "My thoughts are with those injured at Parsons Green and emergency services who are responding bravely to this terrorist incident."

The government's emergency committee, COBRA, is meeting at 13:00 BST.

Witnesses have described seeing at least one passenger with facial injuries.

Others have spoken of "panic" as alarmed passengers left the train at Parsons Green station.
...



Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: grahame on September 15, 2017, 11:37:40
I stand corrected (or rather it's not what it looked like at the start ...)

Like an e-cigarette gone wrong in some chap's bag of stuff he's taking with him to his painting and decorating job?   Time will tell!

BBC Update (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-41218382)

Quote
Tony Devenish, the Conservative London Assembly member for West Central which incorporates the boroughs of Hammersmith and Fulham, has called the explosion a "cowardly attack on innocent members of the public making their morning journeys to work and school".

Home Secretary Amber Rudd says her "thoughts are with the victims of the terrorist attack".


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2017, 11:49:46
I wonder if the open nature of S Stock trains makes the fireball from such a relatively small explosion worse or better in that it might have been contained in one carriage rather than spreading through the train?


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2017, 13:51:14
If only 22 injured, tells me it wasn't big enough to spread amyway, only locals to the bag seem hurt. But yes, I agree, wait until it's aclot bigger, and the fireball will show up the design features allowing walk-through have a more serious element allowing any fireball unrestricted access to all on that service


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 15, 2017, 21:45:15
I have now updated and expanded the heading of this topic, in view of developments.

An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41288525):

Quote
Parsons Green: UK terror threat increased to critical after Tube bomb

The UK terror threat has been increased to its highest level as police continue the hunt for the person behind the Tube bombing in south-west London.

The prime minister said the threat was now critical, meaning an attack is expected imminently, after a device was detonated at Parsons Green station.

The Met's Assistant Commissioner said he had requested military assistance to free up 1,000 armed officers.

So-called Islamic State has said it was behind the attack, which injured 29.

Mrs May said the military would be providing support to police and would replace them on guard duties at certain sites which are not accessible to the public. She said: "The public will see more armed police on the transport network and on our streets, providing extra protection. This is a proportionate and sensible step which will provide extra reassurance and protection while the investigation progresses."

Twenty-nine people have been treated in hospitals, mostly for burns, following the attack at 08:20 BST on the eastbound District Line train from Wimbledon.

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said police were "chasing down suspects". He said the assistance from the military would "provide reassurance" across the country. Mr Rowley said hundreds of police officers had been "trawling" through CCTV to find the attacker.




Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 05:24:41
I wonder if the open nature of S Stock trains makes the fireball from such a relatively small explosion worse or better in that it might have been contained in one carriage rather than spreading through the train?

Picked up by The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4889384/Are-attacks-deadlier-walk-trains.html)

Quote
Yesterday’s terror attack raised safety concerns about the new generation of ‘walk-through’ London Underground trains.

Passengers said the explosion from the improvised device sent a ‘wall of fire’ through carriages on the packed train at Parsons Green station.

The carriages have no interconnecting doors, meaning passengers can walk through the whole train. The design allowed the fire to spread through the carriages.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2017, 07:38:08
No wall of fire along any coach. It would have been a far higher casuality list if so. Exaggeration still exists in journalism. We really iught not quote the Daily Mail without corroboration from rest of media.

It could have been, no doubt about it. 10 self-presented, NHS said 19 taken to hospital by ambulance. Crush reported on staircase out of station, some injuries from that too.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Electric train on September 16, 2017, 08:26:12
And the big City continued to churn on taking it in its stride. An increase of Police at stations and larger presence of staff.

In the Route I work in all get staff get regular anti terrorism briefings not as in depth as the Major Stations teams, there was a request for staff to volunteer to show an orange presence on platforms to assist the station teams

Oh and a presence of Police on the platforms at Maidenhead


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: broadgage on September 16, 2017, 09:22:38
I know that it is easy to be wise after the event, but ...

[snip]


Edit by GrahamE at request of original poster; full original post is quoted for established members in our "Frequent Posters Club".


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 09:41:24
I know that it is easy to be wise after the event, but it seems to me that many of the passengers overdid the panic a bit.
Once the bomb has exploded, there seems little further risk and nothing to be gained by running, screaming, panicking and causing a crush on the exit routes.

....


Discussion of this aspect at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18722.0 - in our Frequent Poster Club.

From http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1761.msg12165 :

Quote
There are two board - "Frequent Poster's Club" and "The Rumour Mill" which are only viewable once you get up to a certain minimum number of posts. The other boards are open to all readers / members.   In the case of rumours, yes, we do want them discussed - but we certainly don't want to give them any effective weight that newcomers might take from seeing the posts up there when they first sign in.  Once they become established, members will know how big a pinch of salt they need to take with them.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 16, 2017, 11:01:12
Another update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41292528):

Quote
Parsons Green: Man arrested over Tube bombing

An 18-year-old man has been arrested in connection with Friday's terror attack on a London Tube train.

The man was detained in the port area of Dover on Saturday morning by Kent Police.

He was arrested under section 41 of the Terrorism Act and is being held at a local police station.

Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said the arrest was "significant", but the terror threat level remains at "critical".




Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 17, 2017, 10:16:49
They've now arrested arrested another male of 21yo


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 17, 2017, 20:26:27
A further update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41298116):

Quote
Parsons Green: UK terror threat lowered to severe after Tube bomb

The UK terror threat level has been lowered to severe after being raised to critical, its highest level, following Friday's attack on a London Tube train.

A second man has been arrested as part of the investigation into the attack.

The 21-year-old was arrested in Hounslow, west London, on Saturday night on suspicion of a terror offence and is in custody in south London.

An 18-year-old man is also being held on suspicion of a terror offence over the Parsons Green explosion.

The "severe" terror threat level means an attack is no longer imminent but is still highly likely.

Police are searching a residential address in Stanwell, Surrey, in connection with the 21-year-old man's arrest.

Home Secretary Amber Rudd said that over the next few days the military would return to their original positions. She said the police had made "good progress" in the investigation but urged "everybody to continue to be vigilant but not alarmed".

Assistant Metropolitan Police Commissioner Mark Rowley said police had gained a "greater understanding" of how the bomb was prepared but said there was "still much more to do" in the investigation.




Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 18, 2017, 09:38:37
We really iught not quote the Daily Mail without corroboration from rest of media.

...or at all, for preference.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 18, 2017, 23:52:54
An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41314328):

Quote
Parsons Green: Tube staff's accounts of bomb 'pandemonium'

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/75D5/production/_97856103_hi041719710.jpg)

The driver of the train targeted in Friday's terror attack at Parsons Green Tube station has revealed the "pandemonium" which followed the explosion, in his official account.

A initial London Underground investigation into the incident, documented in a paper seen by the BBC, has given a snapshot of how staff reacted when an improvised bomb partially exploded in a train, injuring 30 people during the morning rush hour.

The report also revealed initial communications between the driver and the service controller were "hampered", while CCTV images showed "a scene of confusion and distress".

Here is the train driver's account, according to the London Underground report:
When he arrived at Parsons Green, he operated the train doors as normal and carried out his platform duties.
As he was about to shut the doors to depart, he noticed on the in-cab CCTV that a lot of passengers were running out of the rear car.
He immediately opened the cab door to find out what was happening.
Some passengers were shouting "fire" and others were shouting "it's an attack".
The train operator stated that he returned to the cab to raise a mayday alarm.
He asked for traction current to be switched off immediately.
He then returned to the platform and told passengers that were stuck on the platform due to the pandemonium and small size of the staircase to follow him.
He took the customers on to the track away from the trains via the ramp.
He took the customers as far as the sidings and instructed them to stay low and out of sight.
At this time there were about 50-70 people on the track with the train operator and because he was not sure what type of attack was going on, he returned to the station platform to get more information.
On arriving back on the platform, he was met by the station supervisor, who informed the train operator that a bomb had gone off in the last car.
The train operator returned to the sidings to lead the passengers on the track back to the station, and eventually out of the station.

Here is the station supervisor's account:
The supervisor and his staff were at the gateline when there was a sudden stampede of passengers from platform two.
Customers started jumping over the barriers to get out of the station.
The supervisor plunged the gates using the emergency button to keep all gates open.
He instructed his staff to continue to help people out of the station while he went to investigate the reason for the stampede.
After checking the station cameras, he saw that the platform was still very busy with people trying frantically to exit and others running on the tracks, the station supervisor put on his hi-vis and went to the platform.
However, the stairs were so busy and people were being trampled on by those pushing from behind to exit the platform.
The supervisor called his staff and together they helped the fallen and injured out of the station.
They went back and forth and kept calming the crowd, to walk orderly out of the station.
The supervisor was eventually able to get to the platform.
He had found out by enquiring from passengers, while helping them out of the station, that there had been an explosion and fire in the last car of the train on platform two.
The supervisor saw the train operator and informed him of the situation.
The service controller was informed while the train operator went back to the track to retrieve the passengers on the track with him.
The station supervisor continued to evacuate the platform as some passengers kept going to the burning item on the train in order to take pictures.




Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 10:57:42
The station supervisor continued to evacuate the platform as some passengers kept going to the burning item on the train in order to take pictures.

And if the remains of the bomb subsequently detonated? It almost needs to happen just once to show those idiots that putting oneself in jeopardy just isn't worth it....but you on't convince these idiots until something really does happen to those that do....


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Timmer on September 19, 2017, 11:14:49
The station supervisor continued to evacuate the platform as some passengers kept going to the burning item on the train in order to take pictures.

And if the remains of the bomb subsequently detonated? It almost needs to happen just once to show those idiots that putting oneself in jeopardy just isn't worth it....but you on't convince these idiots until something really does happen to those that do....
Couldn't believe how stupid people were going up to the carriage door and taking pictures of the burning bucket.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 11:17:27
getting something to brag about on their social media counts for a *lot* for some (most, now?) people....


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 19, 2017, 11:25:43
People have acted like that since forever, social media and the ubiquity of cameraphones just give everyone the means to do it. For instance, rubberneckers at motorway pile ups. The ghoul is big in the human.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 11:41:58
hmm, not quite the same - they don't (yet) stop on the motorway & go up to accidents. Thankfully


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: plymothian on September 20, 2017, 09:55:52
No, but when the Staines air crash happened, people stopped on the M25 to go an look. Ghoulish behaviour is not a new thing.  "Pics or it didn't happen" seems to be born out of that.
Though how far do you now have to go now to prove something due to the evolution of "fake news" and Photoshop?


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: ChrisB on September 20, 2017, 10:13:01
Eh? Just watch a trusted news channel / read a trusted newspaper/ One doesn't need a photo for your self.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: John R on September 20, 2017, 10:15:47
I didn't think the M25 had been started in 1972.


Title: Re: Terror incident on London Underground train at Parsons Green station, 15 September 2017
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 20, 2017, 14:41:21
It was the A30, not the M25: see this article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/witness/june/18/newsid_3001000/3001756.stm), from the BBC.




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