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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: TaplowGreen on September 15, 2017, 17:46:33



Title: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 15, 2017, 17:46:33
.......in the Friday rush hour.....WTF is going on?


Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Maidenhead
Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Maidenhead fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 19:30 15/09.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2017, 19:14:26
Union meeting?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2017, 13:23:00
WTF is going on?

Having done a bit of digging, I think those cancellations (and probably a large slice of other cancellations due to crew shortages across the network) are being caused by the company removing the incentive to do overtime or break Union rules by coming off their shift to cover another.  This is as a result of pressure from the Union following widespread breaking of those union rules.

As an example, previously a driver might be asked to do an hours overtime on a 10 hour shift, but they would get another extra hour of pay as an extra incentive, no rules broken doing that but they are now only getting the hours extra they work and no extra incentive.  Or a driver would be asked to come in to cover a different shift (which does break the 'rules') and again there would be an incentive for them to do that. 

Those incentives are now not being offered, so many drivers are no longer interested in helping out.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 20, 2017, 20:19:30
Very interesting II thanks for the background............a load more cancellations tonight due to crew shortages and this made worse by events at Ealing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 07:00:58
............lots more cancellations this morning - according to GWRHelp;

"We don't have the specifics as to why drivers are unavailable I'm afraid. There are staff rostered in for the services" -

clearly the instruction to GWR staff is "be ambiguous"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2017, 09:27:21
I wonder whether they've been poached by Norwegian railways?  :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 21, 2017, 09:40:03
At least Ryanair can admit its bad management though.

I assume that GWR are recruiting to sort this mess out? I accept an odd day for an anomaly of sickness levels etc, but not daily. If its ongoing training they should have adequate staffing to release others for training.

Are the management not keeping their staff happy? Happy staff will almost always help between them to cover shifts but when morale is low the answer is normally "no".


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 21, 2017, 09:53:42
Are the management not keeping their staff happy? Happy staff will almost always help between them to cover shifts but when morale is low the answer is normally "no".
From II's post yesterday (see above) and what's been demonstrated every weekend (and weekdays now too) the answer is clearly no.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 21, 2017, 11:31:49
Here's an item that could fit in at least four current threads:

PACA region of France proposes to privatise its railway network (http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2016/10/05/20002-20161005ARTFIG00278-la-region-paca-ouvre-ses-trains-regionaux-a-la-concurrence.php). (nothing in English)

The boss of SNCF has admitted that they didn't forecast how many drivers would retire last year and this, and now need to find 1000 extra ones. PACA (Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur) was badly hit by train cancellations as a result, and  has imposed financial penalties on SNCF.

French regions buy rail services from SNCF, often paying well over half the cost. PACA and some neighbours are now saying the bill is too high, and have started the process of looking for another operator to buy services from. This would be based on the open access market model mandated by the EU, and in the case of PACA it could genuinely be cross-border - not just Liguria but Monco too.

Of course this is also a way of putting pressure on SNCF, and a negotiating tactic is probably all it will ever be.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 21, 2017, 14:08:50
In view of these apparently ongoing problems, I have now expanded the heading of this topic.  :o ::)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on September 21, 2017, 14:52:11
WTF is going on?

Having done a bit of digging, I think those cancellations (and probably a large slice of other cancellations due to crew shortages across the network) are being caused by the company removing the incentive to do overtime or break Union rules by coming off their shift to cover another.  This is as a result of pressure from the Union following widespread breaking of those union rules.

As an example, previously a driver might be asked to do an hours overtime on a 10 hour shift, but they would get another extra hour of pay as an extra incentive, no rules broken doing that but they are now only getting the hours extra they work and no extra incentive.  Or a driver would be asked to come in to cover a different shift (which does break the 'rules') and again there would be an incentive for them to do that. 

Those incentives are now not being offered, so many drivers are no longer interested in helping out.

From listening to drivers' moaning (which is most of the time), it is the Union that has brought in rules to stop incentives, not GWR.  A driver CAN extend and get an incentive, but CANNOT get an incentive to work a rest day or change shifts.  Additionally any signed routes or traction that a driver does not have in his/her normally rostered duty must come off their competence card.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 15:00:21
At least Ryanair can admit its bad management though.

I assume that GWR are recruiting to sort this mess out?

Plenty of trainee drivers currently going through the system, though it takes time especially with a general shortage of instructors, some of whom often drive trains that their trainees won't drive, so much of their shift is wasted.   So the company are certainly guilty of doing too little too late and in a very inefficient way IMHO.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 15:25:45
What would be really good, and would make a refreshing change, would be a statement from Hopwood apologising & explaining fully and frankly all the issues with lack of drivers, serviceable trains, poor levels of customer service etc and giving a recovery plan for each....that would show decency, leadership  & courage...........I'm not holding my breath.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 15:50:58
I agree.  Why not email him personally with that very suggestion?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 15:59:30
I agree.  Why not email him personally with that very suggestion?

May just do that, I'll update all after Christmas when I get a reply (not sure which Christmas that'll be though judging by the speed of GWR replies!).......although to be honest, if he can't do the right thing without being told by a customer, it's a pretty poor reflection of him & the Business he runs.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2017, 16:02:36
Responses from Mark H personally come back quite smartish in my experience - he may of course, pass your query to customer services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 16:14:28
Responses from Mark H personally come back quite smartish in my experience - he may of course, pass your query to customer services.

.......in which case the trainee drivers alluded to earlier by II will probably have retired by the time a reply arrives.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on September 21, 2017, 16:26:09
I agree.  Why not email him personally with that very suggestion?

A TG says, if he needs prompting like that from a disgruntled customer, he really ought to re-consider his future in the service sector.

Like him or loath him, Michael O'Leary has got it spot on this time by holding his hand up and saying 'we made a mistake' and taking the public responsibility. Mr Hopwood, please take note.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: John R on September 21, 2017, 16:29:55
Though it seems as though Mr O'Leary is at increasing war with his pilots over the issue, so maybe that aspect of his tactics should be avoided.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on September 21, 2017, 16:50:15
Though it seems as though Mr O'Leary is at increasing war with his pilots over the issue, so maybe that aspect of his tactics should be avoided.

Indeed.

Nevertheless M.O'L has been big enough to stand up in front of the media and his company's AGM and tell them he's made a huge cock up, mostly taking personal responsibility for that problem.

As has been noted elsewhere on the forum, Mr Hopwood seems to have become the invisible man of late, now that things aren't going quite so well to plan.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 17:35:43
Nevertheless M.O'L has been big enough to stand up in front of the media and his company's AGM and tell them he's made a huge cock up, mostly taking personal responsibility for that problem.

As has been noted elsewhere on the forum, Mr Hopwood seems to have become the invisible man of late, now that things aren't going quite so well to plan.

I am disappointed as well that Mark Hopwood has not made a public apology - even if it was a letter on the seats of trains as had been the case before.  Though had GWR been on the front cover of national newspapers and a lead article on national TV news programmes, like Ryanair have been, I am sure Mark Hopwood would have been forced into doing something.  Had Ryanair been subjected to the fairly low press coverage, mostly small articles in local newspapers, like GWR have been, then I expect Michael O'Leary would have taken a much lower profiled approach.  He's clearly a worried man!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chrisr_75 on September 21, 2017, 17:51:59
Nevertheless M.O'L has been big enough to stand up in front of the media and his company's AGM and tell them he's made a huge cock up, mostly taking personal responsibility for that problem.

As has been noted elsewhere on the forum, Mr Hopwood seems to have become the invisible man of late, now that things aren't going quite so well to plan.

I am disappointed as well that Mark Hopwood has not made a public apology - even if it was a letter on the seats of trains as had been the case before.  Though had GWR been on the front cover of national newspapers and a lead article on national TV news programmes, like Ryanair have been, I am sure Mark Hopwood would have been forced into doing something.  Had Ryanair been subjected to the fairly low press coverage, mostly small articles in local newspapers, like GWR have been, then I expect Michael O'Leary would have taken a much lower profiled approach.  He's clearly a worried man!

I'm sure M.O'L is indeed a little worried currently! Although a 'marmite' character, his business success in an extremely competitive marketplace cannot be denied and I am sure he will likely turn things around after this slip up, as long as he can do so without alienating his workforce too much.

Mr Hopwood however, has the comfortable umbrella of First Group and a fixed term monopoly position to hide underneath and appears to be doing just that. If the status quo continues at GWR, I can see a few headlines looming on the horizon...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 17:57:03
......as my dear old Grandad used to say, anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a man to stand up & say sorry.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 18:40:51
......as my dear old Grandad used to say, anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a man to stand up & say sorry.

Or the alternative version of "anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a desperate man to stand up & say sorry."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2017, 19:34:42
......as my dear old Grandad used to say, anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a man to stand up & say sorry.

Or the alternative version of "anyone can run, hide, make excuses or blame others, but it takes a desperate man to stand up & say sorry."

Not really. There is dignity in apologising for failure. Much more than can be found in hiding behind the Boardroom door. I know which I'd regard as more desperate.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2017, 20:22:06
Oh I agree, TG.  Though dignity from Michael O'Leary doesn't seem to have had much effect on this current Ryanair PR disaster.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Birdie100 on September 21, 2017, 20:30:32
An oddity as a result of this - currently sitting on a class 165  of the delayed 20:13 between Paddington and Ealing Broadway and have the entire train to myself. They were only boarding the front carriages until merging the trains. I then  snuck back to the back three coaches all to myself...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2017, 20:36:25
Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 21, 2017, 20:39:29
Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today
When I saw that earlier today on Journey Check I thought that would get your attention.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2017, 21:18:09
Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today

I'll happily help you draft a letter to Mr Hopwood.  :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 21, 2017, 21:30:33
Bith the last two Oxford/Banbury shuttles this evening have been cancelled! That's 25% of services today.
Oh, we list the first one today to a failed train too.
So that's actually 37.5% gone today

I'll happily help you draft a letter to Mr Hopwood.  :P

Could throw in services on the Cardiff to Portsmouth Hbr/Brighton on Sundays as well for good measure


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2017, 21:57:31
I'll get a better response by going to the relevant Director


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 22, 2017, 07:54:14
06:42 Hereford - Paddington cancelled between Hereford and Worcester Shrub Hill this morning.

Fortunately I'd arrived at Foregate St in sufficient time to catch the preceding London Midland train round to Shrub Hill.

According to realtimetrains,
Quote
This service was cancelled between Hereford and Worcester Shrub Hill due to an issue with the train crew (TG).

According to journeycheck,
Quote
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Which should I believe?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 22, 2017, 07:59:13
Was there fog in your area? That might have delayed the crews taxi up to HFD, meaning they went to WOS?

Does Realtimetrains show an ECS move from HFD at usual time, or did the stock go direct to WOS?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 22, 2017, 09:34:19
Apart from the Hereford/Worcesters mentioned above, things seem to be much improved this morning with no cancellations due to train crew shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 22, 2017, 11:41:53
According to realtimetrains, the 06:42 from Hereford is formed by an empty stock movement from St Philip's Marsh at 04:30, arrive Hereford 06:29. This didn't operate "due to an issue with the train crew".

Judging from the shuffling of stock that I could see at Shrub Hill, the HST that normally sleeps there so as to form the 07:08 departure to Paddington via Cheltenham (and its crew) were used for the 07:32 departure to Paddington via Oxford. The HST was in reverse formation, which is what I'd expect if it was supposed to operate via Gloucester.

The 07:08 via Cheltenham is being shown in realtimetrains as having been cancelled between Shrub Hill and Cheltenham, but operating normally beyond. There's an empty stock movement from St Philip's Marsh (depart 05:10) associated with this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on September 22, 2017, 12:07:52
On Thursday evening of last week I was up in London for a show. The most convenient train for me back to Twyford would have been the 2318 PAD-OXF semi-fast but I checked RTT and discovered it was being regularly cancelled "due to an issue with the train crew". Instead I drove and parked in Westfield and used the Tube from there. I've just taken a look at RTT and so far that train's been cancelled every night this week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 22, 2017, 12:31:00
Yes, the 23:18 is often sacrificed as the driver and train work empty from Oxford at around 9pm, so a driver and carriages can be used for other duties for over three and a half hours with the cancellation of just that one train.  Also, there's the 23:30 fast to Reading which Reading passengers can use.  I think, at that time of night, stops on that 23:30 should be inserted at Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford given the generous running times at that time of night, but I've not observed that to be the case.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 22, 2017, 15:19:26
Just one for today so far o the LTV - Maidenhead this evening


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 22, 2017, 17:49:49
On Thursday evening of last week I was up in London for a show. The most convenient train for me back to Twyford would have been the 2318 PAD-OXF semi-fast but I checked RTT and discovered it was being regularly cancelled "due to an issue with the train crew". Instead I drove and parked in Westfield and used the Tube from there. I've just taken a look at RTT and so far that train's been cancelled every night this week.


The 23.18 is quite a vital post-pub train, and is regularly very busy. All I can say is that GwR had better get this mess sorted by the time that Christmas party season starts or they will be needing some extra BTP at Paddington to deal with very frustrated and lively passengers.
Ps. 17.36 to Oxford, rammed in its normal 5 carriage form, is a pleasant 2 carriage squash-fest today - and left passengers on the platform.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on September 22, 2017, 18:04:29
The 17.36 is meant to be a 8 car HST. Replacing it with a 5 car turbo would be just about manageable as that's what it use to be. Some people standing but generally folks could get on. The 2 cars though is just a joke and becoming all to frequent.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 22, 2017, 18:37:59
No, the 17:36 is diagrammed as a turbo (and has been since 4th September) therefore I'm assuming 5 car as NickB said


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 22, 2017, 19:11:19
18:22 Paddington - Hereford cancelled this evening between Shrub Hill and Hereford "due to a shortage of train crew"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on September 22, 2017, 19:45:41
No, the 17:36 is diagrammed as a turbo (and has been since 4th September) therefore I'm assuming 5 car as NickB said

Pretty sure its been a HST last couple of times I've caught it although I've generally been taking advantage of the 17.18 stopping at Twyford again. If it is going to be a 5 car turbo again (in theory) that's a bit of a disappointment.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 22, 2017, 23:20:00
The 17.36 certianly used to be an 8 car HST and needed to be as such. It toyed with being an adelante when an HST was removed for a few weeeks last summer. The 5 car turbo is poor and the 2 car is criminal.

This simply shifts more passengers for maidenhead to the next direct service which is the  perennially overcrowded 18.18 which is a turbo itself and is the worst train of the schedule.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: johoare on September 23, 2017, 11:21:56
GWR seem to be gradually removing the HSTs from the Maidenhead timetable.. So having given us extra capacity with the EMUs they are then taking it away again.. Added to that the lack of drivers and therefore train cancellations it feels like one step forward and two steps back currently.. That will teach me to be so optimistic!  ::) :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 23, 2017, 11:30:47
The 17.36 certianly used to be an 8 car HST and needed to be as such. It toyed with being an adelante when an HST was removed for a few weeeks last summer. The 5 car turbo is poor and the 2 car is criminal.

This simply shifts more passengers for maidenhead to the next direct service which is the  perennially overcrowded 18.18 which is a turbo itself and is the worst train of the schedule.

There's also the 17:49 HST which also usually loads to near/full capacity but is occasionally subbed with a 180 or Turbo.  Stopping on the main line it will often do the run in a very impressive 17 minutes for the 24 miles, though if you're at the back of the queue for the steps then you can add another three minutes before you can get off the platform unless you walk down the ramp to the car park!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 23, 2017, 20:28:47
Quote
Yes, the 23:18 is often sacrificed as the driver and train work empty from Oxford at around 9pm.

This practice will stop in January, with what looks like the last service from Greenford and the evening Bourne End shuttle forming at Paddington to create the 23:20 to Oxford


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 23, 2017, 21:48:55
GWR seem to be gradually removing the HSTs from the Maidenhead timetable.. So having given us extra capacity with the EMUs they are then taking it away again.. Added to that the lack of drivers and therefore train cancellations it feels like one step forward and two steps back currently.. That will teach me to be so optimistic!  ::) :P

Could be time to call the PM again. She got the HSTs reinstalled last time FGW tried to ditch them.
Another morning commuter mentioned one of the morning HSTs has been canned recently as well. The 8.02??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 23, 2017, 22:23:20
The former 07:59? service which was an HST has now been replaced by the 08:02 8 car electric service since beginning of the month.

I don't know how busy the HST got but at least you now have a guaranteed seat on that service (when it runs  ;))


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on September 24, 2017, 01:45:23
Hopefully its only temporary but the 06.53 from Twyford has been only 3 carriages a couple of times this week. Gets a bit cosy and more so by Maidenhead. It was its customary 3-5 minutes late so GWR are keeping some things as before.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 24, 2017, 07:53:10
48 cancellations already today, all due to shortage of train crew. Still not a whisper from Hopwood.

I think it's time for fewer "keynote" speeches from him, and more attention to the day to day operation of his business.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 24, 2017, 08:18:31
48 cancellations already today, all due to shortage of train crew. Still not a whisper from Hopwood.

I think it's time for fewer "keynote" speeches from him, and more attention to the day to day operation of his business.
And stop wasting money on fantasy adverts that show nothing of the reality of travelling GWR at the moment which could go to paying your staff to actually run something passengers pay you to do... trains!

I'd hate to think how much it cost First to run that ad during prime time Saturday night on ITV. No comfort if you were going to be on one of their 48 cancelled or 21 terminating/starting short services today.

Without being able to look back, this looks to be one of the worst Sundays for cancelled/affected services down to train crew. Is this 'unofficial' action (which they are entitled to do) by train crew escalating?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: johoare on September 24, 2017, 09:47:54
Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 24, 2017, 11:18:31
Without being able to look back, this looks to be one of the worst Sundays for cancelled/affected services down to train crew. Is this 'unofficial' action (which they are entitled to do) by train crew escalating?

I did post in another thread, but the engineering work imposed by NR didn't give enough notice for GWR to issue amended crew diagrams, so in many cases they were relying on staff cooperation.  With incentives to cooperate recently removed at the behest of the union and other things such as West and LTV drivers now being paid much less (circa 8k a year) less than their HSS colleagues, goodwill is unsurprising quite thin on the ground at the moment.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 24, 2017, 11:44:02
Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later

Without wanting to go too far off topic, how does GWR get away with slashing services like this?  Who holds them to account and challenges the decision making process? They just seem to come up with an idea and run with it without any thought or consideration, and once it's done it's harder to undo.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 24, 2017, 15:25:52
A round trip from Paddington to Hereford cancelled today - 12:42 from Paddington, and 16:34 back from Hereford.

According to JourneyCheck,
Quote
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

According to realtimetrains,
Quote
This service was cancelled throughout due to a planning error (TA).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 24, 2017, 15:29:21
The planning error being that they mistakenly thought drivers would actually turn up on a Sunday


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 24, 2017, 15:45:39
Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later

Without wanting to go too far off topic, how does GWR get away with slashing services like this?  Who holds them to account and challenges the decision making process? They just seem to come up with an idea and run with it without any thought or consideration, and once it's done it's harder to undo.

Isn't it covered by Section 7 of the Franchise Agreement?  I think a lot of the blame lays with the client, DfT, for not enforcing it..... ::)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-great-western


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 24, 2017, 18:17:25
A round trip from Paddington to Hereford cancelled today - 12:42 from Paddington, and 16:34 back from Hereford.

According to JourneyCheck,
Quote
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

According to realtimetrains,
Quote
This service was cancelled throughout due to a planning error (TA).

The planning error is that they don't have enough crew to run all the trains  ;D ;D

I've travelled today on a Great Western train, a Cross Country train, a Virgin West Coast train and an Arriva  Trains Wales train, and am now on a vehicle run by Irish Ferries.   

Once I departed Bristol (see picture attached), I saw no further signs of last minute cancellations on the departure boards at Birmingham New Street or Crewe ... which rather goes to prove it can be done!



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 25, 2017, 05:56:46
Yep - the 7.59am HST (8 coaches) and the 8.02am from Henley (5 coaches) which ran non stop from Maidenhead to Paddington have been replaced by one 8 carriage electric train. The 7.59am was probably the busiest HST other than the 7.08am.. I've not tried the 8.02am electric train but I'm pretty sure you won't be guaranteed a seat on it seeing the amount of people who used to use the 7.59am...

I am looking forward to a week of cancellations again since the Electric train drivers have been working this weekend...

As I said - one step forward and two massive ones back. Thanks GWR  - I expect you'll still be happy to take my money when I go to get my new monthly ticket later

You must be psychic!!!

07:17 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:03
07:17 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:03 will be started from Ealing Broadway.
It will no longer call at Maidenhead, Burnham, Slough, Langley and West Drayton.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers

06:12 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 06:58
06:12 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 06:58 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 25, 2017, 06:29:23
And the 06.40 Maidenhead to Paddington is cancelled.

Useless.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on September 25, 2017, 08:49:28
Looking forward to my trip home already. Fortunately I have an understanding manager who doesn't mind a bit of flexibility but it must be really tough if you're on a fixed shift or start times.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Jason on September 25, 2017, 09:00:16
0734 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington
This service was cancelled throughout due to an issue with the train crew

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20004/2017/09/25/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20004/2017/09/25/advanced)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 26, 2017, 10:23:04
Out of interest, what will happen to the class 360 drivers? Will they be transferred to crossrail or stay with GWR and operate class 387s?

If the latter then that would be a handful of extra drivers added to the roster pool from May? next year when TFL takes over the Heathrow stoppers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 26, 2017, 10:29:17
The Heathrow Connect drivers are not GWR drivers, they are the same drivers that drive the Heathrow Express trains.  Not sure what will happen to them next year though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 27, 2017, 17:38:39
Not too many alternative options for shift workers with these two cancelled.......a long, long wait for some.

28/09/17 02:24 Reading to London Paddington due 03:18 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

28/09/17 03:34 London Paddington to Reading due 04:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 27, 2017, 21:08:12
How many shifts start at thise times?

All they would carry are those finishing after midnight. Bar workers mainly


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on September 29, 2017, 09:08:06
Not too many alternative options for shift workers with these two cancelled.......a long, long wait for some.

28/09/17 02:24 Reading to London Paddington due 03:18 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

28/09/17 03:34 London Paddington to Reading due 04:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

I've just been looking at RTT for overnight last night, Down stoppers from PAD at 22:57, 23:49, 01:34, then 05:17 & 06:12 were all cancelled due to "an issue with the train crew". After the 01:34 there's nothing for another 2 hours so presumably taxis were provided?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on September 29, 2017, 10:35:07
Crew shortages. What did they expect to happen?  TfL are recruiting all new drivers rather than take them from GWR.
Once CrossRail starts and takes over services from GWR there is a good chance that the current GWR will close. As a result drivers are leaving and who can blame them. They aren’t going to sit and wait to be made redundant.
The whole situation has been handled very poorly considering not that many years ago GWR heavily recruited drivers in the area with the expectation of them being transferred over to CrossRail


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 29, 2017, 10:55:03
Taking them from GWR would presumably mean TUPEing them on existing T&Cs?

Going out & recruiting them directly means they can be offered the contract TfL/Crossrail want them to have. Who can blame TfL?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 29, 2017, 11:05:32
With Boxing Day working included for example.  Along with having to set up a new relationship with unions rather than an existing one established over many decades.

Personally I don't think the situation is quite as bleak as 'a-driver' thinks, but time will tell.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on September 29, 2017, 11:41:07
Crew shortages. What did they expect to happen?  TfL are recruiting all new drivers rather than take them from GWR.
Once CrossRail starts and takes over services from GWR there is a good chance that the current GWR will close. As a result drivers are leaving and who can blame them. They aren’t going to sit and wait to be made redundant.
The whole situation has been handled very poorly considering not that many years ago GWR heavily recruited drivers in the area with the expectation of them being transferred over to CrossRail

Why would the "present GWR close" ? Surely GWR will still be running all the non  Crossrail routes and will still need large numbers of drivers to so do.
First group might lose the franchise of course, but that is a separate issue, and the new operator would have to take on the drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 29, 2017, 15:09:17
Peak services out of Paddington being cancelled tonight, looks like mostly 387s........all that money spent on these lovely new trains, but someone forgot they need people to drive them...............


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ray951 on September 29, 2017, 16:01:11
1521 Worcester Shrub Hill to Paddington cancelled due to 'Shortage of Train Crew' according to RTT.
Empty stock running on the same schedule http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31084/2017/09/29/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31084/2017/09/29/advanced), so I assume that is a shortage of guard's.

And the obvious substitute from Oxford the 1611 or 1638 to Marylebone are also cancelled, this is due to a broken down train at Denham.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Jason on September 29, 2017, 16:57:20
And also on the Basingstoke <-> Reading shuttle
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20702/2017/09/29 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20702/2017/09/29)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20703/2017/09/29 (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20703/2017/09/29)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on September 29, 2017, 17:19:14
Are any forum members close enough to gwr to understand if they recognise this as a problem??   Obviously there is no use asking customer services about this as I won't get a reply until crossrail goes live, but it would be reassuring to know that this at least registers as a problem and someone is working on it...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 29, 2017, 17:25:59
I notice London - Worcester/Hereford services aren't stopping at Foregate St to due a shortage of station staff. Is this because of a requirement for HSTs to be dispatched by someone on the platform owing to the curve?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 29, 2017, 17:28:03
I notice London - Worcester/Hereford services aren't stopping at Foregate St to due a shortage of station staff. Is this because of a requirement for HSTs to be dispatched by someone on the platform owing to the curve?
Got my answer  :)
http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/15567228.Delays_at_Worcester_rail_station_due_to_staff_sickness/

Yes owing to the curvature of the platforms


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 29, 2017, 17:35:24
Are any forum members close enough to gwr to understand if they recognise this as a problem??   Obviously there is no use asking customer services about this as I won't get a reply until crossrail goes live, but it would be reassuring to know that this at least registers as a problem and someone is working on it...

The operational team that's trying to schedule the rotas is only too aware there's a problem.   It's recognised as a problem as you get further from the operation team, but the problem becomes muted as you move steps away from the actual team trying to squeeze five cups of tea out of 4 teabags.    Because crew training is a convenient reason (and probably with much more than a grain of truth in it) and next year's training program is 33% down on this year's, the strategists away from the front line may be tempted to see it as a temporary problem, especially when they look at new crew being trained to add to the rotas next year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 29, 2017, 18:46:39
Are any forum members close enough to gwr to understand if they recognise this as a problem??   Obviously there is no use asking customer services about this as I won't get a reply until crossrail goes live, but it would be reassuring to know that this at least registers as a problem and someone is working on it...

The operational team that's trying to schedule the rotas is only too aware there's a problem.   It's recognised as a problem as you get further from the operation team, but the problem becomes muted as you move steps away from the actual team trying to squeeze five cups of tea out of 4 teabags.    Because crew training is a convenient reason (and probably with much more than a grain of truth in it) and next year's training program is 33% down on this year's, the strategists away from the front line may be tempted to see it as a temporary problem, especially when they look at new crew being trained to add to the rotas next year.

.........strategists? Are you suggesting GWR have some? 😉


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on September 29, 2017, 21:50:30
Exeter conductors are being trained to work HSTs as conductors (not the pocket rockets).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 29, 2017, 22:00:56
A number of tomorrow mornings services to/from Paddington already being cancelled/curtailed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 29, 2017, 23:30:30
I shall therefore brace myself for the likely need to further expand the heading of this particular topic to include October ...  ::) :o ;D



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on September 30, 2017, 12:40:45
Crew shortages. What did they expect to happen?  TfL are recruiting all new drivers rather than take them from GWR.
Once CrossRail starts and takes over services from GWR there is a good chance that the current GWR will close. As a result drivers are leaving and who can blame them. They aren’t going to sit and wait to be made redundant.
The whole situation has been handled very poorly considering not that many years ago GWR heavily recruited drivers in the area with the expectation of them being transferred over to CrossRail

Why would the "present GWR close" ? Surely GWR will still be running all the non  Crossrail routes and will still need large numbers of drivers to so do.
First group might lose the franchise of course, but that is a separate issue, and the new operator would have to take on the drivers.

There are two depots at Paddington.  HSS & LTV.  It is thought that Paddington LTV will only be a small depot, significantly smaller than it is now and there has been rumours it will relocate to West Ealing where the 387's are stabled.  Drivers who are LTV to the core are leaving the company or transferring over to HSS so it shows what a bleak future they believe the depot has.  The Bedwyn & fast Oxford services will be operated with IEP's, if this goes to HSS it will leave Paddington LTV with just the Greenford's.  The rest of the work can be covered by other depots.  Oxford is also massively overstaffed and with an HSS driver depot opened at Worcester their workload is decreasing. 
The problem they've been faced with is the drivers who have left/transferred or are shortly to leave include the driving instructors.
TfL are proposing a train every 5 minutes West of Paddington plus they have proposed an enhanced peak service which will see TfL take the 5 GWR services operating in both peaks on the relief lines.

Taking them from GWR would presumably mean TUPEing them on existing T&Cs?

Going out & recruiting them directly means they can be offered the contract TfL/Crossrail want them to have. Who can blame TfL?

Good point.  I hadn't considered that. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on September 30, 2017, 23:16:53
Not too many alternative options for shift workers with these two cancelled.......a long, long wait for some.

28/09/17 02:24 Reading to London Paddington due 03:18 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

28/09/17 03:34 London Paddington to Reading due 04:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

I've just been looking at RTT for overnight last night, Down stoppers from PAD at 22:57, 23:49, 01:34, then 05:17 & 06:12 were all cancelled due to "an issue with the train crew". After the 01:34 there's nothing for another 2 hours so presumably taxis were provided?

The 0134 was replaced by buses. I took the following screenshot that evening:


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 30, 2017, 23:48:30
Thank you for your first post, and that screenshot, hassaanhc - and may I offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum.  :)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 01, 2017, 03:22:14

The 0134 was replaced by buses. I took the following screenshot that evening:


Welcome indeed to the forum.

It's ironic that a shortage of one train driver that night lead to a requirement for at least two bus drivers, and perhaps one more than that if the incoming service was also replaced by a bus that would still be some way off Paddington when the return service left.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: insider on October 01, 2017, 10:19:34
An emergency agreement between GWR and LTV drivers for some flexibility to their conditions has been reached. With immediate effect drivers can agree to do different turns if it suits them. If a driver has the route and traction knowledge ( such as an instructor or assessor) they can now work any turn even if not training another driver. This was previously being done which was a breach of conditions. A driver who does overtime will get a taxi home if the new end time means they can not get home by train. A one off payment is being made to all LTV drivers for the above.

From next week additional flex to.those drivers who.opt in and agree. The drivers turn can be extended by 1 hour (start or end) for any reason. This was previously not allowed. And a spare, rest day work or someone on overtime was needed. This mainly affects very early and late trains due to engineering and the retaining of services or ECS moves to depots.

These arrangements are a short term fix and valid.until end of the year only.
Harmonization talks are ongoing for a long term fix


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 01, 2017, 10:55:17
I wonder if some sort of agreement has been reached with West train crew as well? Very few services affected by train crew shortages today. A huge improvement on last week  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on October 01, 2017, 13:29:21
Indeed one swallow doesn't make a summer, or should it - now we are in October - be one avocet doesn't make an autumn, but only two cancellations so far (1 HSS from Bristol to London and 1 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth) but also no over-running engineering work and no reported short formed workings.
.
.
.
.
.
so far!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on October 01, 2017, 14:19:57
The over-running work moved north to Berwick this morning. Trains up to 2hrs late southbound at Newcastle.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 01, 2017, 15:48:24
Indeed one swallow doesn't make a summer, or should it - now we are in October - be one avocet doesn't make an autumn, but only two cancellations so far (1 HSS from Bristol to London and 1 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth) but also no over-running engineering work and no reported short formed workings.
.
.
.
.
.
so far!  ;)

Ironically, one of the SWR services from Bristol is cancelled due to crew issues!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 01, 2017, 16:44:15
Amazing the effect a "one off payment" can have on the prioritisation of work/life balance!!!  :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 01, 2017, 17:00:17
I would imagine there will be roughly a 75/25 percentage split in favour of opting in.  Good time of year to be offering a 'bonus' with Christmas presents to pay for!  With harmonisation unlikely to be sorted until the new year (agreement reached/members balloted/having a deal put in place all takes time even if it clears at the first hurdle) this was realistically the only way of stemming the worst of the current mini-crisis on LTV and allowing for drivers to be released to learn 387s ready for the Didcot launch in January.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on October 01, 2017, 21:13:54
Thank you for your first post, and that screenshot, hassaanhc - and may I offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum.  :)




Welcome indeed to the forum.

It's ironic that a shortage of one train driver that night lead to a requirement for at least two bus drivers, and perhaps one more than that if the incoming service was also replaced by a bus that would still be some way off Paddington when the return service left.

Thanks for the welcome! I live locally to Southall station and use it quite regularly. I've been lucky to not been affected by these cancellations, and I also have alternative routes that I can use. I was actually out late on the above night and did consider using the 0034 from Paddington, but as the services either side were cancelled I didn't trust this one to run either, and instead used the Piccadilly line to Hounslow East. Really can't be fun waiting for a replacement bus at that time of night, especially as you can't track it online.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 01, 2017, 21:24:41
Welcome, Hassaanhc.  It's nice to hear the views of a regular traveller from Southall as the inner Thames Valley stations are amongst the busiest passenger wise, yet worst represented in terms of people on this forum.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 01, 2017, 21:31:04
I would prefer 'least' rather than 'worst'.  ;)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on October 02, 2017, 13:12:07
Yeah I've noticed the lack of posts about the London stations. I have mostly been an irregular off peak passenger until recently, but from today I'll be commuting about 4 times a week (although not all of them in the peak). The service has become far more attractive to use since the extra Hayes & Harlington services started, which plug big gaps both off peak and at certain times in the morning peak. Previously my preferred route for Z1 was using SWR from Hounslow, especially in the morning peak, but the 0821 from Southall is a perfect option now :D (previously there was a gap from 0810 to 0836). Just hope it doesn't get cancelled!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 02, 2017, 23:20:16
Amazing the effect a "one off payment" can have on the prioritisation of work/life balance!!!  :D

I posted such a suggestion in another thread about Sunday cancelations months ago. Maybe I should start charging them consultancy fees  ;D



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 11, 2017, 18:01:55
If anyone wants to help GWR address the driver shortage problem:

https://uk.firstgroupcareers.com/vacancy/great-western-railway-gwr-trainee-train-driver-6056-london-paddington-station/6084/description/


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 22, 2017, 14:24:44
Lots of cancellations/alterations again today due to crew shortages causing severe overcrowding on longer distance routes.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on October 22, 2017, 15:26:17
You cant expect a full service on a Sunday.
Except in an emergency, I gave up weekend travel on FGW as they were then known, years ago.
Engineering work, staff shortages, no proper first class, and no Pullman.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 22, 2017, 16:44:53
Lots of cancellations/alterations again today due to crew shortages causing severe overcrowding on longer distance routes.
Just a typical Sunday travelling with GWR sadly. So much so that no one's bothered to say anything about it anymore.

Looking at the list it's the usual suspects that appear with the Portsmouths, the Cheltenham's and Bristol to London copping it again.

Still, at least you could say even with the cancelled services, it's better than the fair being offered to and from London last weekend. I know that's not saying much.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 22, 2017, 18:07:42
Lots of cancellations/alterations again today due to crew shortages causing severe overcrowding on longer distance routes.
Just a typical Sunday travelling with GWR sadly. So much so that no one's bothered to say anything about it anymore.

Looking at the list it's the usual suspects that appear with the Portsmouths, the Cheltenham's and Bristol to London copping it again.

Still, at least you could say even with the cancelled services, it's better than the fair being offered to and from London last weekend. I know that's not saying much.

Indeed......GWRs weekend service is now so regularly woeful it's regarded as Business as usual, but today the resulting overcrowding seems particularly bad judging by comments/pictures on Twitter etc......half term effect perhaps?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 22, 2017, 18:12:04
It will be everyone going on an 'adventure' as the advertisement says to do.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 22, 2017, 21:12:15
Five arrive at the station to find their train cancelled due to shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 22, 2017, 21:20:42
Five arrive at the station to find their train cancelled due to shortage of train crew.

Five?   ... only 3 arrived back into Melksham by taxi at 21:05 (that would have been next available train from Swindon to Chippenham after the cancelled 19:53 from Swindon, due at 20:19). I expect one of them and the dog had to make their own other arrangements, as rail replacement won't take dogs.   Sad end to three days of surveying and counting.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 23, 2017, 05:23:58
Along with numerous other peak services this morning.....brand new trains, no-one to drive them.....

07:17 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:03 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

.............perhaps the title of this thread needs to be extended beyond September?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 23, 2017, 09:00:17
In view of these apparently ongoing problems, I have now expanded the heading of this topic.  :o ::)

I've now made a further expansion in the heading of this topic.  ::) :o ;D



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on October 23, 2017, 09:02:06
Weymouth services significantly affected today, not helped by the 0533 failing before it left.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BandHcommuter on October 23, 2017, 09:46:05
Weymouth services significantly affected today, not helped by the 0533 failing before it left.
The last train of the day back to Weymouth is also affected:
Quote from: journeycheck
20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Bristol Temple Meads, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Passengers are requested to utilise the next available service.

This had become a frequent occurrence at weekends, and is now encroaching onto weekdays. Maybe there is a half-term annual leave effect on driver availability? I am reminded of an occasion when the last train to Weymouth was cancelled on a Saturday back in July. I had turned up to catch it from Oldfield Park station, where someone on the help point told me to get a local bus from the Lower Bristol Road to Bath Station, where a taxi would be provided. Trouble is, Bath Station couldn't rustle up enough taxis. A solution on this occasion would be either to delay the preceding Portsmouth train into the times of the Weymouth as far as Westbury (calling additionally at places like Oldfield Park, Freshford etc.), or hold the Weymouth train at Westbury until the following Portsmouth train arrives. It will be interesting to see how GWR choose to mitigate the impact on passengers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 23, 2017, 11:05:56
Half term week will indeed mean more drivers are off on leave.  For example at one of the medium sized depots nine drivers have taken their block leave this week, which is one below the maximum allowed.  That drops to three next week, so a difference of six.  Multiply that number by the dozen or so GWR depots and you get some idea of the difference.  That can normally just about be coped with by ‘the system’, and no doubt training has been scaled back a bit this week, but there’s just not enough guys and gals around at the moment thanks to poor management.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on October 23, 2017, 15:42:47
Weymouth services significantly affected today, not helped by the 0533 failing before it left.
The last train of the day back to Weymouth is also affected:
Quote from: journeycheck
20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Bristol Temple Meads, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Passengers are requested to utilise the next available service.

This had become a frequent occurrence at weekends, and is now encroaching onto weekdays. Maybe there is a half-term annual leave effect on driver availability? I am reminded of an occasion when the last train to Weymouth was cancelled on a Saturday back in July. I had turned up to catch it from Oldfield Park station, where someone on the help point told me to get a local bus from the Lower Bristol Road to Bath Station, where a taxi would be provided. Trouble is, Bath Station couldn't rustle up enough taxis. A solution on this occasion would be either to delay the preceding Portsmouth train into the times of the Weymouth as far as Westbury (calling additionally at places like Oldfield Park, Freshford etc.), or hold the Weymouth train at Westbury until the following Portsmouth train arrives. It will be interesting to see how GWR choose to mitigate the impact on passengers.

I can remember occasions when a Portsmouth train has been stopped at Oldfield Park etc to make up for a cancelled preceding train, but not recently. Instead, more recently I've been on Oldfield Park station waiting for what has turned out to be a cancelled train and seen the next Portsmouth train coming through which looked like it had spare capacity in it, but not stopping. >:(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on October 23, 2017, 18:20:24
As of 1815, 10 alterations on JourneyCheck due to train crew issues. There were also a few Thames Valley cancellations in the morning due to either no or late crew.

Quote
15:08 Weymouth to Gloucester due 18:33
15:08 Weymouth to Gloucester due 18:33 will be started from Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Weymouth, Upwey, Dorchester West, Maiden Newton, Chetnole, Yetminster, Thornford, Yeovil Pen Mill, Castle Cary, Bruton, Frome, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park and Keynsham.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Customers for Westbury and stations to Cardiff Central are requested to travel to Southampton Central on South West Trains services for next available GWR connections to Cardiff Central, Bristol Temple Meads or Great. Malvern.
Customers for intermediate stations will be requested to utilise replacement road transport.
Customers are requested to wait for road transport in the designated road replacement areas. Customers are advised that buses will run later that than the advertised train times due to line of route and additional time required for loading and unloading.
Quote
17:02 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:28
17:02 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:28 will call additionally at Avoncliff and Freshford.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
17:30 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:09
17:30 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:09 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Keynsham and Bristol Temple Meads.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
17:44 Bristol Parkway to Westbury due 18:54
17:44 Bristol Parkway to Westbury due 18:54 will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon, Trowbridge and Westbury.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
17:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:43
17:57 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:43 will be starting late from London Paddington.
This is due to train crew being delayed.
Quote
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:39
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:39 will call additionally at Keynsham.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48
18:10 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 18:48 will be starting late from London Paddington.
This is due to train crew being delayed
Quote
20:21 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:45
20:21 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:45 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Bradford-On-Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Bath Spa, Oldfield Park, Keynsham and Bristol Temple Meads.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
20:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:54
20:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:54 will call additionally at Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Freshford and Avoncliff.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Quote
20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13
20:49 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth due 23:13 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Bristol Temple Meads, Keynsham, Oldfield Park, Bath Spa, Freshford, Avoncliff, Bradford-On-Avon and Trowbridge.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Alan Pettitt on October 23, 2017, 21:45:43
It does seem to be an absence of adaptability, we have had the best part of a year of short formed and cancelled trains in the Bristol area, it is absolutely ridiculous that the commuter trains in the evening from Bristol Temple Meads have often been cut from 4 or 5 coaches to 2, it is high time that trains should not be cancelled when the next one on the route is more than, say 30 minutes later, and unless that following train has sufficient capacity, this has certainly been a very poor year for 'customers' in the Bristol, Yate, Frome areas, let alone Melksham. Most years in the summer the trains to Weymouth have been 5 coaches, this year they actually ran one that was 1 coach and had to leave loads of people behind at Trowbridge. I'd like to sign this as "Not Impressed"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on October 24, 2017, 00:25:56
It does seem to be an absence of adaptability, we have had the best part of a year of short formed and cancelled trains in the Bristol area, it is absolutely ridiculous that the commuter trains in the evening from Bristol Temple Meads have often been cut from 4 or 5 coaches to 2, it is high time that trains should not be cancelled when the next one on the route is more than, say 30 minutes later, and unless that following train has sufficient capacity, this has certainly been a very poor year for 'customers' in the Bristol, Yate, Frome areas, let alone Melksham. Most years in the summer the trains to Weymouth have been 5 coaches, this year they actually ran one that was 1 coach and had to leave loads of people behind at Trowbridge. I'd like to sign this as "Not Impressed"
The missing of stops when late also happens in the Thames Valley, and indeed most routes really. I actually don't mind it when only one or two individual services are delayed due to an issue, but if everything is delayed then it is better for everything to stop, especially if services already don't have enough capacity when things are running well. This is what happened to my brother last week: (he commutes from Southall to Reading)

Last week Tuesday when there was an issue at Paddington all day, there ended up being a 50 minute gap for westbound trains beyond Hayes & Harlington at Ealing Broadway, Southall, Hayes & Harlington and West Drayton.
At Southall the 0657 (8-car 387) ran pretty much on time, then the 0710 (3-car DMU) was 23 minutes late in departing and was run non-stop to Slough. After that the 0725 (8-car 387) was 20 minutes late but at least it stopped as normal. It had 8 coaches but it was full throughout as it had passengers from 3 services (as it turned up at 0745 and had passengers that usually took the 0710, 0725 and 0741 services). The 0741 (his usual train) was 14 minutes late and is usually a busy 166 unit.
He took the delayed 0725, then noticed that at Slough he could run and get the 0806 non-stop to Reading (1M99 0750 London Paddington to Banbury and Great Malvern) and he actually arrived at the same time as he would have if his usual train was on time! ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 24, 2017, 10:03:31
There’s a phenomenon I’ve noticed on the Thames Galley suburban routes called ‘2-car roulette’ which means whenever there’s disruption and cancellations you can usually count on a 2 being thrown meaning a 2-car Turbo is the first train to turn up!  At least that is set to change over the next couple of years when practically everything will either be 8 or 9 cars.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on October 25, 2017, 07:38:24
Delays due to trespassers on the track at Acton this morning but, according to our TM, one of the people out looking for the trespassers is the driver of another service. So there you go - GWR actually have spare drivers to go looking for mentalists.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oxonhutch on October 25, 2017, 08:18:51
That driver might have been driving his own train but under caution, and very slowly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on October 25, 2017, 08:40:23
Indeed it was a driver of a train in the area.  He could hear a man calling for help, has now located him and waited for a medical team to arrive and treat him.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on October 25, 2017, 08:50:41
Impressive stuff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 25, 2017, 12:20:54
Indeed it was a driver of a train in the area.  He could hear a man calling for help, has now located him and waited for a medical team to arrive and treat him.

Now that is one of the circumstances where "delayed due to awaiting driver" or "shortage of drivers" is acceptable for consequential disruption.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 28, 2017, 08:11:00
No GWR services to/from Brighton today due to train crew issues. At least there are plenty of alternative services available for anyone making long distance journeys because it's Saturday and not Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 28, 2017, 09:36:18
No GWR services to/from Brighton today due to train crew issues. At least there are plenty of alternative services available for anyone making long distance journeys because it's Saturday and not Sunday.

Recently added to today's cancellation list - everything between 15:22 and 21:06 from Swindon to Westbury.

Wonderful day to leave the TransWilts bereft of return trains when a timetable leaflet hit every letter box in Melksham on Thursday.   Prior to those cancellations being announced, I popped down to Melksham station and chatted with people using the train for the first time ... 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on October 28, 2017, 09:38:03
Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 28, 2017, 09:59:22
Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

See Attachment ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 28, 2017, 10:27:32
Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

See Attachment ...

Looks like you've got road replacement in place anyway if worst comes to worst.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on October 28, 2017, 10:29:54
They so have a legal requirement to 'repatriate' the day trippers....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 28, 2017, 11:03:13
An interesting and telling comment on the WNXX Forum from somebody on the inside:

Quote
With fleet reliability, I don't doubt the maintenance staff do the best they can with what they have. I don't think anyone goes to work to deliberately do a bad job.

Despite this, it is an inescapable fact that fleet reliability is sub-par, and has been for years. Next month is the Modern Railway Golden Spanner Awards. Will we see yet another year where GWR is the bottom of the pile for unit and HST reliability? If this summer is anything to go by, probably. I remember on one day in the Summer, we had half the 158 fleet grounded.

This is not a personal attack on the staff. It's a harsh reality check about how GWR seems to do things. The company knew years ago that we'd lose maintenance staff to Hitachi. What did they do to mitigate the shortage of staff? Not a lot. It's also worth noting that in the past we used to have fitters visit some of our outstations overnight to do minor work. Doesn't happen any more unless there is a major issue. I reckon that it is cheaper to cancel trains than spending the money to keep them up together.

It is true that GWR has a knackered and stretched fleet, but the same is also true at TOCs such as Northern and EMT, and they do better than us somehow.

It's not just the fleet side either, on the train crew side things are a mess. We have over established depots that have had work taken away from them, while depots that are notoriously short of train crew such as Bristol have had an increase of work. We have diagrams produced in cookoo land, and then the company scratches its head when a train is cancelled due to a lack of crew, while another depot has drivers sat around spare that don't sign the route/traction. Modern day railway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 28, 2017, 17:02:54
An interesting and telling comment on the WNXX Forum from somebody on the inside:

Telling. Very telling. GWR is being very badly managed across all aspects of the business.

Accountability from senior management and the board is missing. Sadly there is no chance of butt kicking from the DfT. For ideological reasons the Conservative government won't countenance putting the operator on an improvement notice or consider stripping failing FirstGroup of the franchise.

Passengers will continue to suffer on GWR until the next franchise. FirstGroup don't deserve to be even considered for the next franchise.

What can GWR do to restore some faith from passengers and improve staff morale? Well, a public apology from Mark Hopwood would be a start...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on October 28, 2017, 18:54:08
Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

Fortunately the cancelled Melksham services have all been reinstated, although not of use if you have already made alternative plans assuming that the trains were not running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 28, 2017, 18:56:06
Re Brighton services - 1046 ex-GMV arriving 1615 reinstated, according to journeycheck

But the last two services to/from Melksham gave gone again owing to staff shortages

Fortunately the cancelled Melksham services have all been reinstated, although not of use if you have already made alternative plans assuming that the trains were not running.

I was just writing that up as a separate topic - took the dog for a walk in Chippenham to see how busy the reinstated trains were.  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18908.msg224076#msg224076


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 04, 2017, 06:08:01
Quite a few of these this morning - Christmas hols starting?


07:32 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 04, 2017, 06:56:02
Oh dear, another subject line needs updating!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 04, 2017, 08:52:17
Quite a few of these this morning - Christmas hols starting?


07:32 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.


Might be as a reaction to yesterday's problems - crews not able to fit their legal break between shifts in.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 04, 2017, 19:48:53
Oh dear, another subject line needs updating!

Thanks, ChrisB - now done!  ;) :D ;D



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: hassaanhc on December 05, 2017, 01:02:57
In the morning the 2S10 0745 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington and return 2S11 0818 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington (0821 at Southall) were originally shown as cancelled due to a lack of traincrew, but were suddenly reinstated and appear to have run virtually to time. Losing that as well as the 0806 Heathrow Connect (due to a unit failure, not traincrew issues!) had me worried about being able to board my preferred service* (0831 non-stop to Paddington) but in the end there was no issue, and it was actually on time! ;D

*A couple of weeks ago the 0836 Heathrow Connect was cancelled, and maybe another service that doesn't call at Southall, which meant I couldn't board the 0831 and had to wait until the 0847. The 0831 is a pretty empty 5-car DMU (especially in Coach 4) which after Slough only calls at Southall and Paddington, and in January becomes the 0827 8-car EMU which will have also called at Langley, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and then afterwards Ealing Broadway :'( having an Ealing Broadway call will guarantee a wedged service! Unless people get better at using the full length of the train ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 05, 2017, 04:02:15
In the morning the 2S10 0745 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington and return 2S11 0818 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington (0821 at Southall) were originally shown as cancelled due to a lack of traincrew, but were suddenly reinstated and appear to have run virtually to time. Losing that as well as the 0806 Heathrow Connect (due to a unit failure, not traincrew issues!) had me worried about being able to board my preferred service* (0831 non-stop to Paddington) but in the end there was no issue, and it was actually on time! ;D

The cancellation and re-instatement of trains is a concern to us on the TransWilts and something that's happened sufficient times on the TransWilts for it to move from "surprised" when it happens to "routine" or even "not again!!".  It's damaging for a train to be removed from the schedule and re-instated some hours later, as the cancellation is flagged up and people are put off their (day return) journeys when in the end both the trains wanted run ( hassaanhc - we only have a train every 2 hours here, so a gap means bus or taxi for part of the route and a massive slowing of end-to-end timing, even assuming you can persuade the "help" point operative to get in touch with GWR to make alternative arrangements!)

Shortage of crews ... "oh my goodness, we can't run this" may be overcome later by Brunhilda or Siegmund being persuaded to work an extra shift, or finding that the train on the other line where they were supposed to work is one of "more trains than usual requiring repair at the same time" and I certainly would support the re-instatement, but I wonder if at times the cancellations are announce too early?    There are other reinstatements too at the end of a series of cancellations where engineering works / repairs / recovery of broken trains finish early or are quicker than expected - they're more understandable as blocks of train have to be cancelled up to some estimated completion point.

With my maths background, I would like to see probabilities of running against trains in doubt, and indeed notes of when an update to the probability and how woolly the figure given is.   I suspect I'm in a tiny minority wanting that data which would be time-consuming to provide when the real job to be done is fixing the issue to run the trains.

Do the systems in place have guidance about the probability level at which a train is publicised as cancelled?    80% chance it won't run?  90%?   Or is it not that scientific?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 05, 2017, 08:49:34
The latter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 05, 2017, 09:07:31
Brunhilda and Siegmund are two of the more militant drivers, you won’t get any favours out of them...  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 06, 2017, 05:59:10
......fantastic advice from GWR, whoever would have thought of this?  ::)


04:00 Oxford to London Paddington due 05:50 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Additional Information
Customers are advised to travel on the next available train service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 06, 2017, 16:53:04
Disappointed to see this evening’s service between Weymouth and Westbury affected by train crew issues and it’s not even the weekend.

Replacement buses will run in place of trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 06, 2017, 17:04:26
I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on December 06, 2017, 21:22:00
I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I suspect these crew members are agency staff empoyed by Ryanair.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 06, 2017, 21:27:50
I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I'm not surprised, given the inability of GWR to manage & maintain their workforce efficiently.  In the real World, the needs of the business & it's customers are the first consideration when approving Annual leave.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 06, 2017, 22:26:23
I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I'm not surprised, given the inability of GWR to manage & maintain their workforce efficiently.  In the real World, the needs of the business & it's customers are the first consideration when approving Annual leave.

Too often there is a simplistic assumption that when there is a problem you can expect staff to work their holiday. However we are in a period of labour shortage and particularly for skilled labour you cannot simply go out and employ skilled staff who are unemployed, staff know this and if their employers treat them badly they know they can take their valuable skills elsewhere.  Cancelling leave can therefore be counter productive as it can create more shortages.

Cancelling leave can also lead to tired staff who are more prone to illness, leading to absence and more staff shortages.

Training new drivers is expensive and takes time.  There is a therefore an inevitable lag time in responding to shortages, particularly where they are unexpected. What incentive does a company with short franchise (though just being expended) to spend money on training that their successor will benefit from not them.

The shortage at the moment is partly due to a short term peak in training brought about by the introduction of new and cascaded stock. The use of temporary replacement staff is not very practical fro train drivers.   




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 07, 2017, 01:25:29
Whilst I appreciate that recruiting and training drivers takes time, how long should GWR be given to address this issue ?
Weekend staff shortages have become the "new normal" and weekday services are now nearly as bad.

The need to train staff on new rolling stock should have been foreseen, surely, and not come as a surprise.

I would have more sympathy with GWR if some exceptional event had left them short of staff, but I can not accept that weekends, weekdays, December, the long planned arrival of new trains, and the like are exceptional.
And as for "not wanting to train staff for a potential new TOC" Well I am afraid that this of one of the entirely foreseeable hazards of running a business on a fixed term franchise basis, that MIGHT or might not be extended.

I forgive many sins of GWR, because I so enjoy the Pullman restaurants,  these are IMO far superior to the catering facilities offered by any other UK TOC. There is however a lot more to running a TOC than entertaining me with smoked salmon, red wine, fillet steak, cheese board  and port !

The ROUTINE failure to recruit and retain enough drivers and other front line staff to reliably operate the advertised services is in my view a lack of basic competence.






Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on December 07, 2017, 06:33:13
I would anticipate problems with crew shortages until the new year on all days of the week now, as large numbers of crew, quite often the maximum allowed at a given depot, will be taking leave each day.

I'm not surprised, given the inability of GWR to manage & maintain their workforce efficiently.  In the real World, the needs of the business & it's customers are the first consideration when approving Annual leave.

Throughout the year, I guess there have been instances of 'Leave Declined' for various reasons and now it is a case of 'Use all of your leave before the end of the year or lose it'


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 07, 2017, 08:14:03
Whilst I appreciate that recruiting and training drivers takes time, how long should GWR be given to address this issue ?

How long does it take to train a driver?

The need to train staff on new rolling stock should have been foreseen, surely, and not come as a surprise.

I would have more sympathy with GWR if some exceptional event had left them short of staff, but I can not accept that weekends, weekdays, December, the long planned arrival of new trains, and the like are exceptional.

Have the delays in delivery meant that training is being carried out over a shorter timescale? 

And as for "not wanting to train staff for a potential new TOC" Well I am afraid that this of one of the entirely foreseeable hazards of running a business on a fixed term franchise basis, that MIGHT or might not be extended.

Yes - as you say made worse by a series of short term extensions so the TOC only ever has a maximum couple of years to get a return on their investment in training. As I understand it GWR did do a large driver recruitment at the start of this extension and those driver may now be in post.  Perhaps DfT needs to build something into the franchise agreement on handing on sufficient staff. 

They negotiate the price so hard that they should not be surprised if a TOC only delivers the minimum in the agreement.

The DfT is therefore to blame for this as well.
The ROUTINE failure to recruit and retain enough drivers and other front line staff to reliably operate the advertised services is in my view a lack of basic competence.

Failure to recruit possibly - but see above about the agreement.

Failure to retain - now that is more difficult.

We are thankfully not in a society (yet) where people are forced to stay in a particular job therefore an employer is not wholly in control of staff retention.  In times of when opportunities for alternative employment are poor the employer can get away with a lot.  In times where there are plenty of opportunities for alternative employment the employer must go out of their way to ensure that they make their employees want to stay.

What I have heard employment practices in the rail industry (though perhaps better than the bus industry) does not fill me with confidence that TOC s understand this. 

These jobs inevitably involve unsocial hours so other things have to balance that.  Those who are demanding that GWR change their staff terms on weekend working should bear this in mind. That might mean that the TOC may have to pay significantly more for their staff - which again comes back to money and DfT demanding a best deal for the treasury rather than the passenger.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on December 07, 2017, 08:54:04
Three afternoon services to Weymouth cancelled beyond Westbury today, with bus replacements.
It is happening on this route more regularly now.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 07, 2017, 09:26:14
Here is the current list of GWR vacancies from the First Group website...........I see none for drivers, train crew, ticket office staff etc despite constant cancellations due to traincrew shortages and many LTV ticket offices now being virtually permanently closed.......due to "staff shortage" according to GWR.

You will also note the absence of Customer service staff to deal with correspondence/complaints, despite the months long delay in getting responses which has now been going on for over a year - some of this may have been outsourced, but accountability for it sits with GWR.

..............I can see why "Performance analysts" are required, I suspect they may be busy.


Engineering Project Team Coordinator
Engineering - Swindon - Engineering Project Team Coordinator
Service Delivery Assistant
CS - Stations - Reading Station - Service Delivery Assistant
Senior Performance Analyst
Finance - Swindon - Senior Performance Analyst
Project Manager
Ops - Other - Swindon - Project Manager
Route Manager
Ops - Other - Capital House London - Route Manager
Management Development Trainer


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 07, 2017, 09:29:47
Whilst I appreciate that recruiting and training drivers takes time, how long should GWR be given to address this issue ?

Given that the vast majority of shortages are down to accelerated training, as long as it takes to get the stock moves done & services running the new stock timetabled & running?
Unfortunately, there are no driver temp agencies that suitably-trained drivers can be gleaned from.

Quote
The need to train staff on new rolling stock should have been foreseen, surely, and not come as a surprise.

It would have been planned for when the stock was originally due. Once delays were introduced by the DfT, the training would have needed to be put back - you can't train & then not use that training for months, can you? It would be forgotten quite quickly. So no planning for training could be done until they got a guarantee from the DfT & the supplier that delivery was going to definitely happen - hence it all being fitted in to quite a short time period, more intensively to get enough drivers trained to start on Jan 2. You can't blame the TOC in this instance.

I would have more sympathy with GWR if some exceptional event had left them short of staff[/quote]

The DfT-induced delays are exceptional, sorry. And as indicated above, the root cause of all these shortages, or the vast majority, at least.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 07, 2017, 09:32:58
Here is the current list of GWR vacancies from the First Group website...........I see none for drivers, train crew, ticket office staff etc despite constant cancellations due to traincrew shortages and many LTV ticket offices now being virtually permanently closed.......due to "staff shortage" according to GWR.

Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.

Quote
You will also note the absence of Customer service staff to deal with correspondence/complaints, despite the months long delay in getting responses which has now been going on for over a year - some of this may have been outsourced

All those posts are outsourced, so GWR won't be advertising any vacancies, will they?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 07, 2017, 09:59:30
You have to remember Mr Hopwood needs to show a profit coming from GWR into First's coffers otherwise there would be no point in First having the franchise. Training crew costs money, money that would deny profit for the company.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 07, 2017, 10:01:03
Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.
I hope that declaration that there won't be any more shortages doesn't come back to haunt you Chris.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 07, 2017, 10:03:09
Here is the current list of GWR vacancies from the First Group website...........I see none for drivers, train crew, ticket office staff etc despite constant cancellations due to traincrew shortages and many LTV ticket offices now being virtually permanently closed.......due to "staff shortage" according to GWR.

Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.

Quote
You will also note the absence of Customer service staff to deal with correspondence/complaints, despite the months long delay in getting responses which has now been going on for over a year - some of this may have been outsourced

All those posts are outsourced, so GWR won't be advertising any vacancies, will they?

..................no, which was why I mentioned the outsourcing, but the fact that their performance in this area is particularly appalling is another illustration of the poor decision making within GWR, and as I pointed out, they are 100% accountable for their suppliers performance.

As it's your (I'm sure) well informed position that there are numerous drivers, traincrew and ticket office staff in training and soon to descend upon the network to deliver previously unprecendented levels of service, reliability and customer satisfaction I'm sure that we will all take comfort from that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tim on December 07, 2017, 11:01:11
You have to remember Mr Hopwood needs to show a profit coming from GWR into First's coffers otherwise there would be no point in First having the franchise. Training crew costs money, money that would deny profit for the company.

Nothing wrong with profit. The problem may be that the incentives have not been set up so that cancelling trains put a bigger dent in the profit (and provide a greater threat to Mr Hopwood's continued employment) than training staff. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 07, 2017, 11:04:17
Nothing wrong with profit. The problem may be that the incentives have not been set up so that cancelling trains put a bigger dent in the profit (and provide a greater threat to Mr Hopwood's continued employment) than training staff. 
Indeed nothing wrong with making a profit Tim, just not at the expense of GWR's customers which has been going on for far too long with the same rail companies being rewarded with new contracts to carry on regardless.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 07, 2017, 11:33:56
Here is the current list of GWR vacancies from the First Group website...........I see none for drivers, train crew, ticket office staff etc despite constant cancellations due to traincrew shortages and many LTV ticket offices now being virtually permanently closed.......due to "staff shortage" according to GWR.

Bears out what I said in my previous post - that the shortages are down to training, and once complete, there won't be any shortages as they'll all be back on the 'new' stock they've been trained on.

Quote
You will also note the absence of Customer service staff to deal with correspondence/complaints, despite the months long delay in getting responses which has now been going on for over a year - some of this may have been outsourced

All those posts are outsourced, so GWR won't be advertising any vacancies, will they?

..................no, which was why I mentioned the outsourcing, but the fact that their performance in this area is particularly appalling is another illustration of the poor decision making within GWR, and as I pointed out, they are 100% accountable for their suppliers performance.

As it's your (I'm sure) well informed position that there are numerous drivers, traincrew and ticket office staff in training and soon to descend upon the network to deliver previously unprecendented levels of service, reliability and customer satisfaction I'm sure that we will all take comfort from that.

There are a lot of new drivers currently going through training who will be passing out over the next six months, so I think the crew issue on LTV will be much improved in the new year, I’m not so sure about the situation on West.  The mistake was to not anticipate the current shortfall and then panic and hire a load of new staff at the same time a massive training programme of existing staff on the new trains needs to be undertaken.  So I wouldn’t be as brave as ChrisB to predict there won’t be any shortages, but it should become a much improved situation from the new year and through the summer and next Christmas.

There are agreed leave levels with the unions per depot and above and beyond that level it will only be granted if their shift can be covered.  That means, using one depot as an example, six people who wanted the day off this Saturday have been refused it, but there are still seven open turns without cover which will either be covered by another depot, or result in cancellations.

Ticket office staff at most of the locations where there have been recent shortages will become the responsibility of TfL Rail.  I wonder how quickly they’ll get on top of it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 07, 2017, 12:39:18
Nothing wrong with profit... and if, as we are told, profits only make up 3% of the bill then are they really all that relevant?

Given that we have a state-controlled railway, surely it is the government's fault if its agents (the TOCs) provide a poor service? The government writes and enforces (or fails to enforce) the rules...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 07, 2017, 15:24:49
Wouldn't disagree with that....and yes, that 3% is significant (to the TOCs at least). If they find they can't generate it they hand back the keys (so take a minimum loss) or don't bid in the first place. cf the lack of bidders on mew franchises


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tim on December 07, 2017, 15:59:23
the 3% figure is a complete and utter red herring when it comes to rail franchises.  But it looks small and reasonable and so the ToCs and their cheerleaders in Government and at ATOC keep repeating it.  I would hope that we don't inadvertently do their work for them by repeating that nonsense number as if it was significant. 

For a "normal" business profit is expressed as percentage return on capital.  On that yardstick a 3% profit would be low especially for a business that carried a risk of loss of capital.  Remember profit is not a reward for running the business (the people who run the business are rewarded in their pay package).  Profit is essentially the rent paid to the investors for the use of their capital.   

BUT First Group invest virtually zero capital into the business.  If they don't make any profit their capital is not lost.  GWR is essentially a "pass-through" business.  They rake in a huge farebox and pass most of it out as costs keeping 3% for themselves.  Comparing them and their profit percentage to, say Marks and Spencer (or a RoSCo), is therefore completely meaningless.  A better comparison would be to compare them to say, American Express.  American Express collect huge amounts of money from card holders and pay almost all of it to retailers, retaining a small fraction of a percentage for themselves.  Now if Amex was making a profit of 3% of the total transactions on their cards, most people would regard that as a huge margin, massively unfair and contrary to the public interest.  And in fact the EU has decided that Amex's "cut" of transactions must be no more than 0.3% (and only a fraction of that "cut" is profit). 

My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

Don't get me wrong.  I am not against profit in the rail industry.  I don't have a problem with Hitachi making a decent margin on their IEP leasing deal because they had to attract investors to cough up billions to pay for the trains, but the idea of using a mechanism (profit) designed to attract investors into a business like a ToC which doesn't invest in anything beyond their branding seems to have little justification. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Enterprise on December 07, 2017, 16:08:35
Amex & First are chalk and cheese.
There is no comparison between Amex, who have a very different business model to First.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on December 07, 2017, 17:17:53
Amex cards issued by themselves are not subject to the cap on credit card transaction fees. Although they may find their merchant base shrinking if they are too much out of line and can't compensate with its higher volume clients. Also the transaction fee is not the only source of income for credit cards and they are starting to charge merchants separately for some services that they used to bundle in within the transaction fee.

I have expressed my view many times on the franchise concept as it currently operates, ie that in essance it manages to combine the disadvantages of both public and private sector operations and minimises the benefits of both as well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on December 07, 2017, 17:29:03

BUT First Group invest virtually zero capital into the business.  If they don't make any profit their capital is not lost.  GWR is essentially a "pass-through" business.  They rake in a huge farebox and pass most of it out as costs keeping 3% for themselves.  Comparing them and their profit percentage to, say Marks and Spencer (or a RoSCo), is therefore completely meaningless.  A better comparison would be to compare them to say, American Express.  American Express collect huge amounts of money from card holders and pay almost all of it to retailers, retaining a small fraction of a percentage for themselves.  Now if Amex was making a profit of 3% of the total transactions on their cards, most people would regard that as a huge margin, massively unfair and contrary to the public interest.  And in fact the EU has decided that Amex's "cut" of transactions must be no more than 0.3% (and only a fraction of that "cut" is profit). 


That's an interesting take. If the Train Companies were just acting as fare collectors, it would also be a fair one, but of course they are doing rather more than that. However most passengers see high fares that increase by more than inflation every year (3.4% next year! (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/05/rail-fares-rise-ticket-prices)), and imagine that some stereotypical fat cat is in control of this and bleeding them dry, whereas as all of us here know it is the government that largely sets the level of fares. In that context, quibbling over 3% or 0.3% is indeed a red herring.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 07, 2017, 19:44:02
My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

Amex is a card issuer as well a settlement network, so it's easier to look at Mastercard as an example of a transaction processor's business model.

If you pay £100 for a railway ticket, that's the cost of that service - being conveyed by rail.

If you pay £100 for something - say a big toy for a small undeserving relative - using your card that's  the cost of what you bought. If MC gets paid 30p for doing their accounting, that is the cost of the service they provide. According to their figures, of their $9.2Bn of annual global revenue they end  up with $3.4Bn to distribute to shareholders: about 35%.

So, very different.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 07, 2017, 21:23:16
There's a fair few LTV cancellations tonight and also services starting/finishing short and/or missing out stations......shortage of crew cited in almost every case.....this is going to cause real problems in the evenings going forward as we get into the Christmas party season.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 07, 2017, 21:27:25
It sure is, and it would’ve been worse had a short term flexibility agreement with LTV drivers not been brokered with the unions.  As I said a few days ago, expect a very poor Christmas of cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 07, 2017, 21:40:30
It sure is, and it would’ve been worse had a short term flexibility agreement with LTV drivers not been brokered with the unions. As I said a few days ago, expect a very poor Christmas of cancellations.

And that is a caution echoed for other parts of GWR by other knowledgeable sources.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 07, 2017, 22:07:58
It sure is, and it would’ve been worse had a short term flexibility agreement with LTV drivers not been brokered with the unions. As I said a few days ago, expect a very poor Christmas of cancellations.

And that is a caution echoed for other parts of GWR by other knowledgeable sources.

Rather like leaves on the line isn't it? Everyone knows it's coming every year, but the railways always seem to be caught out.

Suffice to say, in the (awful) words of Chris Rea, I'm driving home for Christmas but my thoughts will be with anyone brave/unlucky/unfortunate enough to have opted for the GWR sardine Christmas experience.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 07, 2017, 22:54:26
Indeed, I’m optimistic it will be much better next year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 07, 2017, 23:43:23
I happen to share your optimism, IndustryInsider - if only because it can't get much worse next year.  ;)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on December 08, 2017, 01:02:22
I am reminded of a quote that I came across once - and now can't find, even given the wonders of search engines. It's something like

    Saturday, which always comes as a surprise to the Metropolitan Railway.

and (I think) it's from either Gilbert or Sullivan. Can anybody find this for me?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 08, 2017, 01:13:50
I happen to share your optimism, IndustryInsider - if only because it can't get much worse next year.  ;)

Hmmmm, I'm reminded of the utter shambles in the late 2000s - still a long way to go until we stoop that low!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 08, 2017, 09:08:56
Indeed, I’m optimistic it will be much better next year.

Is that an early iteration of the Invisible Hopwood/GWR's latest (and perennial) advertising catchphrase?  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lympstone_commuter on December 08, 2017, 10:09:17
I am reminded of a quote that I came across once - and now can't find, even given the wonders of search engines. It's something like

    Saturday, which always comes as a surprise to the Metropolitan Railway.

and (I think) it's from either Gilbert or Sullivan. Can anybody find this for me?

Lovely quote! It seems a similar set of words was used in the Illustrated London News in 1863:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZuWGDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=surprise+to+the+%22metropolitan+railway%22&source=bl&ots=GT4XGPzwzN&sig=PqSziMJqBw_wLbgtXoAfVBQ_UYI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic7p-SlfrXAhUHmbQKHd8SBFoQ6AEIVTAK#v=onepage&q=surprise%20to%20the%20%22metropolitan%20railway%22&f=false (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZuWGDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=surprise+to+the+%22metropolitan+railway%22&source=bl&ots=GT4XGPzwzN&sig=PqSziMJqBw_wLbgtXoAfVBQ_UYI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic7p-SlfrXAhUHmbQKHd8SBFoQ6AEIVTAK#v=onepage&q=surprise%20to%20the%20%22metropolitan%20railway%22&f=false)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 08, 2017, 12:12:04
Indeed, I’m optimistic it will be much better next year.

Is that an early iteration of the Invisible Hopwood/GWR's latest (and perennial) advertising catchphrase?  ;D

Appreciating the smiley at the end of your post, I do genuinely feel optimistic that the new year will see us start to turn the corner as some of the ‘perfect storm’ pressures that have caused all the recent problems start to subside, some of which were GWR’s making, and some of them weren’t.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on December 08, 2017, 13:13:31
2018 all depends on the ORR signing off Reading Electrification by 28 December.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 08, 2017, 13:16:41
2018 all depends on the ORR signing off Reading Electrification by 28 December.

In the context of GWR changes, yes, maybe ... out of context, 1st January 2018 is unstoppable once 31st December 2017 has ended  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oxonhutch on December 08, 2017, 13:32:10
In the context of GWR changes, yes, maybe ... out of context, 1st January 2018 is unstoppable once 31st December 2017 has ended  ;D

There's always a 'Vogon Constructer Fleet (http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Vogon_Constructor_Fleet)'! "A lucky break for Arsenal" if it did!  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tim on December 08, 2017, 16:43:30


That's an interesting take. If the Train Companies were just acting as fare collectors, it would also be a fair one, but of course they are doing rather more than that. However most passengers see high fares that increase by more than inflation every year (3.4% next year! (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/05/rail-fares-rise-ticket-prices)), and imagine that some stereotypical fat cat is in control of this and bleeding them dry, whereas as all of us here know it is the government that largely sets the level of fares. In that context, quibbling over 3% or 0.3% is indeed a red herring.



The ToCs do much more than simply collect fares.  But I the extra stuff they do (employ staff, buy fuel, plan timetables drive trains) is not capital intensive and therefore cannot be used to justify the profit.  Remember profit is a reward for the owners of the company.  In any large business, all the owners do is provide capital and so logically the profit cannot be a reward for anything other than the provision of capital.  The other stuff the ToC does is not done by the owners.  It is done by the staff and staff are rewarded not by profit but by salary/bonus etc.

Look at it this way.  Suppose the capital required to run a ToC is £1million, and the annual farebox is £100million.   A 3% profit is £3million.  If the shares are owned by 1000 people investing £1000 each, each shareholder get £3000 per year on an holding of £1000.  That would suggest an extremely excessive profit which suggests that the market has broken and the public are being ripped off.   

The reality is very different from my example because the number of shares is fixed and so the law of supply and demand means that the price per share would increase if holding them was really as lucrative as my example until a point is reached where holding them is no longer extremely lucrative.  This means that if I were to buy some First shares today, I would be getting only a few percent return on my investment because the share price has been driven up by competition for shares. But that doesn't hide the fact that the system is set up so badly that the one thing private sector investors are great at doing (providing money for investment thereby sparing the tax payer) does not happen.   Still it looks like market capitalism and 3% looks reasonable so we carry on defending the system. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 08, 2017, 17:29:52
My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 


Good question. Amex's turnover, at $32 billion pa, is around five times First Group's (not just GWR) turnover, so a smaller margin still yields a lot of cash. Plus the two companies are doing completely different things. I used to have an Amex card, which wasn't really welcome in many places (except Wetherspoon's). I asked a friendly hotel owner why this was, and he said it was because their charges were higher than others, and they were slow to pony up the dough.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rhydgaled on December 08, 2017, 20:29:33
The ToCs do much more than simply collect fares.  But I the extra stuff they do (employ staff, buy fuel, plan timetables drive trains) is not capital intensive and therefore cannot be used to justify the profit.
What about the cost of bidding for a franchise? Does that count as 'capital'?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 08, 2017, 21:19:44
The ToCs do much more than simply collect fares.  But I the extra stuff they do (employ staff, buy fuel, plan timetables drive trains) is not capital intensive and therefore cannot be used to justify the profit.
What about the cost of bidding for a franchise? Does that count as 'capital'?

Nope, that's Opex.

I see that several of the late night Reading/Oxford trains are being/have been cancelled tonight due to driver shortages and (in some cases) replaced with road transport from Paddington. As Christmas party season is in full swing, I hope they have plenty of coaches arranged to maintain the party spirit, otherwise it may get rather  unpleasant at PAD and points in between to Oxford.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 08, 2017, 22:34:30
Not supplying intermediate timings is wrong though....imagine turning up for a cancelled train to Oxford at Reading.....just how long would you need to wait for that bus??? Surely you ought to know should you find out early in the evening?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 08, 2017, 22:48:01
My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

The simple answer is Risk.  If you were assured a nice steady return with little likelihood of loosing your original capital, then you should expect a low rate of return. 0.3% suggests a really solid investment.  

On the other hand if you were likely to get nothing at all because the likelihood is that the company will make nothing at all or even loose your capital because the company goes bust, then you would expect a very high return to make it worth your while investing in the shares.  

Earlier post talked about shareholders.  When we speak of TOCs they are separate companies (usually) wholly owned by the holding company.  So there are shareholders - just they are corporate shareholders.

If we look at the East Coast debacle - we see that two previous companies have handed in the keys (not just exercised a break clause) and another one is about to do so.  The fact that the current Government seems likely to let Stagecoach off lightly is something that had a risk to it as well as we all know that politicians are unpredictable.  

The result therefore of DfT's push to get the best deal and, on bidding, appear to transfer huge risk to the TOC  means that bidders will factor in for higher returns to cover the risk. They say they have transferred risk.  In some (but not all) cases they have created that risk in order transfer it, which is madness as it just creates excess cost!

Government is seen as a low risk borrower so they can borrow at much lower interest rates. However when they privatise they transfer risk so must pay more. This is why some (right and left alike) are asking if privatisation is worth it.  

What about the cost of bidding for a franchise? Does that count as 'capital'?
Nope, that's Opex.

I disagree. It is money put up front in the hope of getting a return. If the bidder looses they get nothing! In my judgement therefore it can be considered capital.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on December 08, 2017, 23:33:03
In the context of GWR changes, yes, maybe ... out of context, 1st January 2018 is unstoppable once 31st December 2017 has ended  ;D

There's always a 'Vogon Constructer Fleet (http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Vogon_Constructor_Fleet)'! "A lucky break for Arsenal" if it did!  ;D

The new series (series 6) of the Hitchhikers Guide to The Galaxy begins next Spring. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41594664) I've been catching up with the previous five series in the last few weeks. Just 3 more episodes to go for me!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on December 09, 2017, 00:13:19
All semi direct and direct services are cancelled due to lack of staff. Paddington looks like 7pm on a Friday due to overcrowding and the ‘staff’ are giggling rather than sorting anything out. What a total shower of shit. And no, I won’t retract that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 09, 2017, 00:14:55

Nope, that's Opex.


Isn't that in the eye of the beholder?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on December 09, 2017, 00:45:04
It’s looking like all late night LTV services are cancelled due to lack of drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 09, 2017, 07:35:57
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.

And no GWR services to/from Brighton today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 09, 2017, 07:58:01
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.

As that's due to crew rather than train shortage, I would hope that scheduled services are strengthened with the units not running the specials.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 09, 2017, 08:50:01
30 cancellations listed already today and another 21 "updates" of which the vast majority give details of alterations which amount to cancellations for many people at the stations being missed out as services are being started/finished short - nearly all due to "crew shortage"

Sorry, but this is getting towards meltdown now - notwithstanding the tragic events last night, most of the late night cancellations were down to traincrew shortages and customers were left swinging in the breeze into the early hours all along the LTV line with no meaningful help or information.

A glance at the customer experiences described on Twitter and on here from NickB give an idea of what it was like........interestingly, GWR Twitter this morning has stated that "there is not a shortage of drivers, all timetabled services have a full complement of crew rostered in"...............so where the hell are they?

The message has to be - don't rely on the train to get you home for Christmas...........God help the Famous Five.

Any word from Hopwood yet?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 09, 2017, 09:13:57
Every train formation "update" refers to the normal reduced train lengths, mainly 2 car instead of 3 or 4 and a few 3 car instead of 5.
No increased train lengths then. So what are they doing with all the units that would have been used on the services cancelled due to failure to employ enough staff.
With 30 cancellations and many more part cancellations, there should be enough units to strengthen some of those services that are running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 09, 2017, 09:51:14
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.
Unsurprisingly so have the afternoon’s extras been cancelled. Coupled with some trains running shorter than normal it’s not a good performance once again. We can’t say we weren’t warned by Industry Insider that this was going to be the case until the end of the year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on December 09, 2017, 10:03:48
And now today to add to all the woes there is industrial action.


07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32 has been delayed at Bristol Temple Meads and is now 29 minutes late.

This is due to industrial action.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 09, 2017, 10:12:24
And now today to add to all the woes there is industrial action.


07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32 has been delayed at Bristol Temple Meads and is now 29 minutes late.

This is due to industrial action.
Probably linked to XC’s revised timetable due to Industrial action.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 09, 2017, 10:14:14
And now today to add to all the woes there is industrial action.


07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:32 has been delayed at Bristol Temple Meads and is now 29 minutes late.

This is due to industrial action.
Probably linked to XC’s revised timetable due to Industrial action.

This is probably a knock on effect from XC Train Manager's strike today as you say.  This action won't help GWR's position of accommodating passengers today as they are accepting XC tickets


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 09, 2017, 11:00:04
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.
Unsurprisingly so have the afternoon’s extras been cancelled. Coupled with some trains running shorter than normal it’s not a good performance once again. We can’t say we weren’t warned by Industry Insider that this was going to be the case until the end of the year.

Which begs the question, if Industry Insider could see it coming from months away, why didn't the Industry itself, and specifically GWR, do something about it?

And I repeat, according to GWR this morning,  ".....there is not a shortage of drivers, all timetabled services have a full complement of crew rostered in" -  so where are they all?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 09, 2017, 13:01:58
Why does the dispute on cross country result in cancellation of GWR  services?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 09, 2017, 14:08:22
Why does the dispute on cross country result in cancellation of GWR  services?

Nobody has said a train was cancelled,  merely delayed.   The root cause is the cause quoted and delay can be for a number of reactionary reasons. such as problem with XC train blocking platform for one.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: insider on December 09, 2017, 15:06:19
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.
Unsurprisingly so have the afternoon’s extras been cancelled. Coupled with some trains running shorter than normal it’s not a good performance once again. We can’t say we weren’t warned by Industry Insider that this was going to be the case until the end of the year.

Which begs the question, if Industry Insider could see it coming from months away, why didn't the Industry itself, and specifically GWR, do something about it?

And I repeat, according to GWR this morning,  ".....there is not a shortage of drivers, all timetabled services have a full complement of crew rostered in" -  so where are they all?

Well if you believe the GWR twitter feed??

The ongoing issue with Crew Shortage is multiple things. Yes on paper there are enough drivers. There are 3 main things one is the high number of training programmes at present. There are around 6-10 drivers a day released for 387 training. There are also roughly the same number for Route briefings for post Xmas changes. This training has to be done or we will be in an even worse state than now post New Year. THIS INFO IS JUST LTV (not sure about WEST issues but probably similar)

Then the other reason is the season, high levels of annual leave and sickness. However if you didn't have the 1st issue of approx. 20 drivers a day being released the 2nd issue would probably go all but unnoticed.

20 drivers a day is 20 diagrams of work uncovered, with approx. 6 hours of driving on average per turn that's a lot of uncovered trains.

The 3rd reason is the ongoing issue of overtime payment. There are no incentive payments to work overtime. Yes there is a flexibility deal (opt in or out) for majority of drivers but that doesn't cover any last minute issues. This is the railways industry own making. When you are being paid over £50k a year why would you agree to work an extra hour for roughly £20 (take home). Most would rather just go home, so drivers are refusing overtime.

So what are they doing about it???

LTV has over 40 active trainee drivers but this takes time. Recently around 8 have become competent. This number should have been higher. But training and exams are tough and some haven't passed the relevant tests. Why not train more you ask. It just isn't possible. Each trainee needs (after many weeks in classroom), 250 hours of driving over the routes that they will work. There are only so many instructors, many drivers don't want the added pressure or responsibility of teaching and that cant be forced on anyone. So it all takes time
GWR has had a huge training programme for trainee drivers over the last 7 years. Unfortunatly other TOCS know this and they just don't bother and then advertise for Qualified drivers and poach staff. Other parts of the country are much cheaper to live in and you can earn a higher salary for some TOCS. So the turnover of Drivers in LTV area is very high.
Reading currently has 45 drivers on a waiting list for transfers to other parts of GWR!!! they currently have around 28 trainees so it is a constant battle that will be here for the foreseeable future. (and another batch of trainees is starting next year)

My sources say its going to get even worse from New Year...so brace yourselves (but I keep my fingers crossed for a happy new year)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 09, 2017, 15:22:46
Similarly to LTV drivers learning Class 387s, West drivers are training on the Turbos.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 09, 2017, 18:35:43
Presumably HST Drivers are learning on IETs as well

A question though:

Then the other reason is the season, high levels of annual leave and sickness. However if you didn't have the 1st issue of approx. 20 drivers a day being released the 2nd issue would probably go all but unnoticed.

Has late delivery of stock and cascade pushed the training into a season where it has more impact on performance, or compressed it so more training is happening at once, or was this always going to happen?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 10, 2017, 09:02:47
The extras running for the last weekend of the Bath Christmas market this morning between Bristol and Westbury have been cancelled so normal scheduled services on this line are likely to be very busy.
Unsurprisingly so have the afternoon’s extras been cancelled. Coupled with some trains running shorter than normal it’s not a good performance once again. We can’t say we weren’t warned by Industry Insider that this was going to be the case until the end of the year.

Which begs the question, if Industry Insider could see it coming from months away, why didn't the Industry itself, and specifically GWR, do something about it?

And I repeat, according to GWR this morning,  ".....there is not a shortage of drivers, all timetabled services have a full complement of crew rostered in" -  so where are they all?

Well if you believe the GWR twitter feed??


Snipped it a bit for the sake of space.

As GWR's twitter feed is now it's main interface and virtually the only means of getting a response within an acceptable timeframe (emails take months as we all know), I'd be very concerned if your suggestion that it gives out dishonest information is true.

The detail you give on training, annual leave, sickness etc is interesting and enlightening however these are factors which every Business has to deal with, basic workforce management, and in the main they cope without collapsing in the way that GWR frequently do.

GWR must have known that all these training commitments were coming up months if not years in advance, yet it now seems that it has crept up on them unannounced.

Ultimately, this reeks of poor planning and weak management.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 10, 2017, 11:35:03
Who do you think is around to shunt & join these units together? And getting the decision to do so to anyone to notify said shunter?

Shunters don't grow on units in sidings....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 10, 2017, 13:21:40
The detail you give on training, annual leave, sickness etc is interesting and enlightening however these are factors which every Business has to deal with, basic workforce management, and in the main they cope without collapsing in the way that GWR frequently do.

Yes but most businesses can just go out to a temp agency and get more staff in off the street!  They don't have to train them for months before they can use them.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 10, 2017, 13:29:03
Indeed, TG isn't reading what several of us are telling him.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Tim on December 11, 2017, 14:37:25
My question is why is profit of less than 0.3% seen as adequate for Amex, but 3% is seen as barely enough for a ToC? 

The simple answer is Risk.  If you were assured a nice steady return with little likelihood of loosing your original capital, then you should expect a low rate of return. 0.3% suggests a really solid investment.  

On the other hand if you were likely to get nothing at all because the likelihood is that the company will make nothing at all or even loose your capital because the company goes bust, then you would expect a very high return to make it worth your while investing in the shares.  

Earlier post talked about shareholders.  When we speak of TOCs they are separate companies (usually) wholly owned by the holding company.  So there are shareholders - just they are corporate shareholders.

If we look at the East Coast debacle - we see that two previous companies have handed in the keys (not just exercised a break clause) and another one is about to do so.  The fact that the current Government seems likely to let Stagecoach off lightly is something that had a risk to it as well as we all know that politicians are unpredictable.  

The result therefore of DfT's push to get the best deal and, on bidding, appear to transfer huge risk to the TOC  means that bidders will factor in for higher returns to cover the risk. They say they have transferred risk.  In some (but not all) cases they have created that risk in order transfer it, which is madness as it just creates excess cost!

Government is seen as a low risk borrower so they can borrow at much lower interest rates. However when they privatise they transfer risk so must pay more. This is why some (right and left alike) are asking if privatisation is worth it.  

What about the cost of bidding for a franchise? Does that count as 'capital'?
Nope, that's Opex.

I disagree. It is money put up front in the hope of getting a return. If the bidder looses they get nothing! In my judgement therefore it can be considered capital.

A really good reply.  If I paraphrase you correctly, it seems that profit is justified to cover the ToC's risks of a) spending huge sums on a bid and not winning, and b) performance being below par and having to pony up because the system is set up to put artificial barriers (performance bonds etc) in the way of a ToC walking away from a franchise which is loosing money.

It would be churlish to point out that both of those risks only exist because of the crazy way in which Government has chosen to set up the system. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 14, 2017, 21:45:08
Henley on Thames finishing the day with buses due shortage of drivers.   Many LTV services cancelled for this reason.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2017, 22:00:52
Henley on Thames finishing the day with buses due shortage of drivers.   Many LTV services cancelled for this reason.

Merry Christmas from GWR......make your own way home!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2017, 08:43:28
......a flavour of the "feedback" received by GWR last night as a result of them being unable to manage their workforce effectively and cancelling numerous late night services on one of the busiest evenings of the year......this from a personal friend who is not given to hyperbole

"......In nearly 30 years of commuting I have never experienced conditions like this evening. As a company you should be embarrassed to treat your customers like that...."

............from what I understand at one point train drivers on 3 carriage trains at Paddington (which idiot was responsible for only sending 3 car units in these circumstances?) were radioing control begging them to send more carriages for trains which were packed beyond the point of overcrowding 10 minutes before departure (this has been confirmed by GWR staff) - fights to get on trains, people left on platforms after last trains had left, no sign of any "customer service" staff.....naturally..............I wonder if any of this will feature in Hopwood's next Powerpoint presentation?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 15, 2017, 13:01:58
I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2017, 16:20:12
I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.

Yep, roughly 10pm onwards............as for senior "management", I couldn't agree more.....they've all been too busy [snip - GE], preaching about future glories rather than dealing with mundane little things like having enough drivers to get their customers home............here's our anonymous friend on a rare excursion from the Boardroom at the GWR Christmas party, taking his turn on the Karaoke..........apparently he chose "Midnight Train to Georgia" but sadly it had been cancelled as no driver was available!

It will be interesting to see how things pan out tonight, probably the biggest party night of the year, I see one of the peak Maidenhead services and a mid evening one have already been cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 15, 2017, 18:43:14
I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.

Yep, roughly 10pm onwards............as for senior "management", I couldn't agree more.... [snip]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out tonight, probably the biggest party night of the year, I see one of the peak Maidenhead services and a mid evening one have already been cancelled.


I have been asked if the text I have snipped has crossed the line and become a personal attack.  You might like to consider going back and editing your post?     The question of copyright on the image has also been raised - it looks very much like one of mine, but I don't recall giving permission, nor attending any GWR Christmas Party.

Edit to add ... 12 hours later, I have gone back and snipped a handful of words which had coe to key attention from multiple sources as being over the top.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on December 15, 2017, 19:08:27
No comment about the copyright question but a personal attack?? Really?
The comments were directed towards the head of the company that this message board was set up to discuss - a person who has presided over operational failures that are accelerating not reducing and, most relevant of all, has completely withdrawn all means of customer feedback whilst enjoying self-congratulatory industry backslaps.
If Mark Hopwood had any courage at all he would meet his customers at Paddington station one evening, and then he might understand the pent up anger that his customers feel towards him and his management team. Until then he may have to cope with some needling on here.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 15, 2017, 19:22:13
Until then he may have to cope with some needling on here.

Appreciated.  And indeed I probably snipped more than I needed in quoting back.  I loved the cancellation of the midnight train to Georgia, for example ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2017, 19:46:13
No comment about the copyright question but a personal attack?? Really?
The comments were directed towards the head of the company that this message board was set up to discuss - a person who has presided over operational failures that are accelerating not reducing and, most relevant of all, has completely withdrawn all means of customer feedback whilst enjoying self-congratulatory industry backslaps.
If Mark Hopwood had any courage at all he would meet his customers at Paddington station one evening, and then he might understand the pent up anger that his customers feel towards him and his management team. Until then he may have to cope with some needling on here.

I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: FremlinsMan on December 15, 2017, 21:55:39


I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜

Does anyone know roughly what time he'll be leaving?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 16, 2017, 00:16:07
I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 16, 2017, 08:24:29
I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...

He won’t be going until First give up the franchise.... and they will because who would want it. The new IET’s and the failed electrification project have pushed operating costs through the roof. There would have to be some big commitments from the DfT to get any interest in the franchise.
First have done well with the little assets they were allocated with by the DfT and I say that from someone who has recently left the company.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on December 16, 2017, 08:28:35
I assume this is referring to the later evening trains?  Expect the same or similar every night until Christmas, as I have little faith in any appropriate response from senior management.

For the late evening services, my suggestion would be temporary diagrams with selected advance notice cancellations and a minimum of 6-car length trains that do run, to apply until 22nd December.

This does mean the TOC has to go to DfT and admit they are unable to run the agreed service which would likely mean financial penalties and payments to NR for access; they don't get hit for running short trains 2 car instead of 5 and can live with the odd cancellation as they get cancelled out by NR delay attribution.

I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...

I hope they have it right, willing to give a few days to allow what is a major operating change to bed in.

The transition to a new type of traction and the cascade of existing stock to elsewhere is always challenging for a TOC and NR.   The short form DMU trains in the TV is a result I suspect of the 165 going west add to that the 180 progressively going off hire, the staff at OOC having to maintain HSTs yet they know the closure of the depot is oh so close, the storing of the new trains.

Add on top of that all the training of staff, its not only drivers but all the train crew as well; the fitters in the depots all needed to be trained on the new train, Hitachi having to recruit there recruitment ground being OOC and having to compete with TfL and other London train maintenance depots.  Even station staff need training in the dispatch etc of the new trains.

And keep a "normal" service running ................................ its a big task


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 16, 2017, 10:39:09


I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜

Does anyone know roughly what time he'll be leaving?

Depends on the Pips - they're speaking to the RMT apparently, not happy about working weekends.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 16, 2017, 14:09:42
I’m sure it’s fingers crossed for the new timetable in Jan.  I think if that works, he’ll stay, if not he’ll be gone...

I hope they have it right, willing to give a few days to allow what is a major operating change to bed in.

The transition to a new type of traction and the cascade of existing stock to elsewhere is always challenging for a TOC and NR.   The short form DMU trains in the TV is a result I suspect of the 165 going west add to that the 180 progressively going off hire, the staff at OOC having to maintain HSTs yet they know the closure of the depot is oh so close, the storing of the new trains.

Add on top of that all the training of staff, its not only drivers but all the train crew as well; the fitters in the depots all needed to be trained on the new train, Hitachi having to recruit there recruitment ground being OOC and having to compete with TfL and other London train maintenance depots.  Even station staff need training in the dispatch etc of the new trains.

And keep a "normal" service running ................................ its a big task

Of course it is and that is why DfT have kept renewing FGW/GWR's franchise because it would be an even bigger risk for anyone else and so they might not have got any bidders. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 16, 2017, 17:26:59
No mention of the problem at the Customer Panel Meeting on 18th November nor of number of trains out of service.  Seemed to have been kept off the Agenda,


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 16, 2017, 17:27:57
No comment about the copyright question...

I have heard a rumour that

GWR proved too much for the man,
So he's leavin' the life he's come to know,
He said he's goin' back to find
Ooh, what's left of his world,
The world he left behind
Not so long ago.

.........but I can't confirm it unfortunately 😜

I deplore the absence of an acknowledgement of James D Weatherly's part in all this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 16, 2017, 17:46:44
No mention of the problem at the Customer Panel Meeting on 18th November nor of number of trains out of service.  Seemed to have been kept off the Agenda.

Different groupings have very different slants as to what comes up; I went along to the first of the hew style panels in Bristol, and the concerns there were overwhelmingly biased to the ease of otherwise of getting on an off the station and train, and with the availability or lack thereof (at times) of staff at stations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 18, 2017, 20:59:11
I see that in the latest issue of Rail Magazine GWR is advertising for "Qualified Train Drivers"
 
Positions available at "Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Bristol, Gloucester, Westbury, Exeter and Penzance."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 19, 2017, 00:01:51
I see that in the latest issue of Rail Magazine GWR is advertising for "Qualified Train Drivers"
 

I saw that too. Just that word "Qualified" in the way...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 19, 2017, 01:56:06
I see that in the latest issue of Rail Magazine GWR is advertising for "Qualified Train Drivers"
 
Positions available at "Paddington, Reading, Oxford, Bristol, Gloucester, Westbury, Exeter and Penzance."

Yep, seeing if they can poach anyone from any other TOC, or, more likely, FOC.  Shorter training period of course than taking somebody off of the street.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 19, 2017, 06:02:20
Great to see GWR looking to recruit drivers to solve the shortage  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on December 19, 2017, 07:05:59
Yeah - now if only they had done this 9 months ago they could have avoided inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of passengers...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 19, 2017, 11:15:01
Been advertising for some of those depots for the past few years!  The LTV depots with the start of CrossRail are a sinking ship


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 19, 2017, 12:01:32
Yeah - now if only they had done this 9 months ago they could have avoided inconveniencing hundreds of thousands of passengers...

9 months ago, the delivery of IETs wasn't set in stone. And that's been the problem, along with the problem that a-driver refers to.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 19, 2017, 12:13:31
9 months ago, the delivery of IETs wasn't set in stone. And that's been the problem, along with the problem that a-driver refers to.

...err, I think it was in the contract.  See physical Page 91 onwards here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/355607/great-western-iep-network-train-agreement.pdf

Health Warning: Its a large document


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 19, 2017, 12:18:37
Ok, thanks. 9 months hasn't been long enough to train up the current GWR drivers (it's still ongoing now!), so when would the new drivers have been trained?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 19, 2017, 16:29:18
Training on the IET’s was only allowed to commence once testing had been completed and the IET was handed over to GWR. Testing was carried out using GBRf drivers. I think it’s something like 3 or 4 weeks to fully train a driver on the IET.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2017, 17:56:04
Training on the IET’s was only allowed to commence once testing had been completed and the IET was handed over to GWR. Testing was carried out using GBRf drivers. I think it’s something like 3 or 4 weeks to fully train a driver on the IET.

At first glance, that seems a curious arrangement ... there will be two lots of drivers to train rather than just the one set, and the GWR driver training will be compressed into a month during which the driver(s) concerned will contribute to a peak in the "shortage of train drivers".   We should thank goodness that the 800 class is being ramped up and not coming in with a massive spike (even if the 387s are)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 19, 2017, 18:11:47
I suspect Hitachi wanted the testing done by third party drivers who couldn't be 'influenced' in their reporting back?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 19, 2017, 20:24:22
I suspect Hitachi wanted the testing done by third party drivers who couldn't be 'influenced' in their reporting back?

Plus testing started on the East Coast mainline. Your freight drivers would already have the route knowledge to enable this to happen for a start


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 20, 2017, 12:54:33
Cardiff to Tauntons suffering today including 2 whole round trips together with the afternoon Brighton and a Portsmouth Cardiff round trip.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 20, 2017, 19:00:50
Plenty of cancellations and services terminating short this evening, looks more like a weekend day not a weekday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on December 20, 2017, 19:10:33
17.18 fast service for Maidenhead and Twyford ran non stop to Reading and the next fast service was reduced in size. Lot of angry people as these services are busy at the best of times and looked like a lot of people couldn't get on the 17.36

Just to add to the frustration it was another passenger who told everyone the 17.18 wasn't stopping where most people got off. Nothing on the displays and no announcement from the driver. Plenty of space for the few people who stayed on though...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: insider on December 21, 2017, 02:48:30
17.18 fast service for Maidenhead and Twyford ran non stop to Reading and the next fast service was reduced in size. Lot of angry people as these services are busy at the best of times and looked like a lot of people couldn't get on the 17.36

Just to add to the frustration it was another passenger who told everyone the 17.18 wasn't stopping where most people got off. Nothing on the displays and no announcement from the driver. Plenty of space for the few people who stayed on though...

This service was amended at 1652 well in advance of the departure time!!! Some people just choose not to look at the CIS at Paddington and just go to the platform. The train was expected 10 late and if it had run with the booked stops would have caused more delays to more people.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on December 21, 2017, 08:54:56

Some people just choose to be really patronising...

Where I was standing the service wasn't on the board until well past departure time and there were no announcements about changes. I know because I was stood there waiting for the platform to be called and then had to go ask the driver what was happening after being tipped off by a passenger.

And I'm sure that's a great comfort to the people who couldn't get on the shortened 17.36


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BandHcommuter on December 21, 2017, 14:42:54
According to National Rail Enquiries app,four consecutive trains from Southampton to Westbury are cancelled this evening. 1842, 1910, 2010 and 2110. Might try another route home... :-[


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 21, 2017, 15:04:17
According to National Rail Enquiries app,four consecutive trains from Southampton to Westbury are cancelled this evening. 1842, 1910, 2010 and 2110. Might try another route home... :-[

There are trains from Southampton to Salisbury at 18:40 and 19:37 which arrive in Salisbury just before Westbury trains leave there - operated by SWR so won't show up on GWR-only sources.  The connection off the 18:40 is very tight indeed - in a co-ordinated world, they might hold the connection.

This does also suggest there could be some sanity in linking Southampton - Salisbury and Salisbury - Westbury services ... ;-)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2017, 17:36:30
According to National Rail Enquiries app,four consecutive trains from Southampton to Westbury are cancelled this evening. 1842, 1910, 2010 and 2110. Might try another route home... :-[
Pathetic.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on December 21, 2017, 18:32:49
Cancellation of services on the Portsmouth line actually made the travel news on BBC Wiltshire tonight although no specific details were given


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 21, 2017, 19:29:26
Cancellation of services on the Portsmouth line actually made the travel news on BBC Wiltshire tonight although no specific details were given

The BBC might try and get an interview with the Ghost man, Mark Hopwood, to find out what's going on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2017, 19:34:05
The service is so poor tonight it’s appearing on the front page of the GWR website and as a line update on Journeycheck:

Quote
Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour

Due to a shortage of train drivers between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour fewer trains are able to run.

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Reading and Portsmouth Harbour via Salisbury and Southampton Central in both directions until further notice.

How First are allowed to get away with providing such a poor service at weekends and now on weekdays without any penalty is beyond me. Instead the government invite them to talks on awarding them a new short term franchise.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 21, 2017, 20:48:48
Quote
Cancellations to services between Bristol Temple Meads and Portsmouth Harbour

Quote
Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Reading and Portsmouth Harbour via Salisbury and Southampton Central in both directions until further notice

If I was unfamiliar with the railways, I would read that as if I wish to travel from Bristol to Portsmouth, I should travel to Reading, then onto Salisbury before heading down to the South Coast? A rather scenic way round


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on December 21, 2017, 21:04:06
The information on replacement coaches is also somewhat ambiguous appearing to be only operating between Westbury and Bristol with nothing to cover the gap between Salisbury and Westbury (or can you travel on SWR via Yeovil?)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2017, 21:05:45
Nice bit of extra work for the coach companies now the schools are out for Christmas.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 21, 2017, 21:14:37
The information on replacement coaches is also somewhat ambiguous appearing to be only operating between Westbury and Bristol with nothing to cover the gap between Salisbury and Westbury (or can you travel on SWR via Yeovil?)

Northbound calls at Warminster made (or expected) at 18:01, 19:01, 21:16, 22:14 and 23:30 - just one serious gap. Southbound at 18:15, 19:50, 20:30, 21:11, 22:15, 22:26 and 23:12 - again just on serious gap.

Edit to add - missed the crush-busting extra service at 18:18 that ran from Warminster to Westbury  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 22, 2017, 16:34:22
Looks like it's catching across First Group........

Fury at Christmas Getaway rail chaos warning after guards call in sick | London Evening Standard https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/fury-at-christmas-getaway-rail-chaos-warning-after-guards-call-in-sick-a3725651.html


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 22, 2017, 16:48:38
So far so good as far as services affected by train crew issues. Maybe that was the plan, have a bad day yesterday to have as many crew available as possible today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 22, 2017, 17:42:29
......now you have to add this to the equation too.....anyone fancy the 1903 tonight?


14:07 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:33


14:07 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:33 has been previously delayed, has been further delayed at Reading and is now 12 minutes late.
This is due to overcrowding.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 22, 2017, 18:31:00
.......blimey they're all at it! Did all TOCs have their Christmas parties last night?

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/service-updates?uq=636495641305800000#INC1AC82EFE8C3949A6A693511D045E9370


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 22, 2017, 20:31:48
You could try flying from Bristol instead...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 23, 2017, 07:58:22
Seems even Santa has been hit by staff shortages

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced)

Quote
Due to a lack of elves, this service will be formed of five instead of ten sleighs. All stops will still be served.

 ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 23, 2017, 08:47:48
Seems even Santa has been hit by staff shortages

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S73184/2017/12/24/advanced)

Quote
Due to a lack of elves, this service will be formed of five instead of ten sleighs. All stops will still be served.

 ;D

Unions won't have it - Christmas Day working - thin end of the wedge......................treble time anyone?  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 23, 2017, 08:53:39
I'll have a treble... oh no cross purposes there... ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 23, 2017, 08:55:18
I think the handful of GWR drivers who do work on Christmas Day get treble time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 23, 2017, 09:14:09
I think the handful of GWR drivers who do work on Christmas Day get treble time.

My first job was in a Naval Base and the offer for Christmas Day was treble time + a day off in lieu.......loads of people used to volunteer (mostly single blokes/those without children) , 0700-1500 so basically you had a late Christmas lunch and counted the money!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 23, 2017, 10:29:12
I think that’s true of the railways as well, hence you’d have no problems getting in enough staff for a reduced Boxing Day Service if the offer is good enough.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 23, 2017, 11:55:28
After a fairly good day yesterday, normal* service has been resumed on the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Brighton line  ::)

*normal by GWR standards of service on weekends.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 23, 2017, 13:14:50
I think that’s true of the railways as well, hence you’d have no problems getting in enough staff for a reduced Boxing Day Service if the offer is good enough.

Agreed, but possibly causing severe overcrowding as pretty much *everyone wanting to get home* would try & use those trains, rather than a full service on the 27th/spreading themselves out, especially when the 27th is a workday.
The overcrowding/unable to board would generate the complaints one might expect. Is it something the TOCs want?

Also, the obvious question is how the extra cost (staffing being 25% of the cost of running a 'mormal' service) can be recovered. Would people pay extra? I doubt it generally, a few might, leading to empty seats if the fare differential between 26th & 27th was substantial.

I think the only way would be for the DfT to require a full Saturday service in new franchises with a triple pay/day off in lieu staff pay requirement for those choosing to work. How the lack of staff volunteering problem might be solved if it arose, I'm not sure. It could be used against the TOC should there be unrest at that time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 23, 2017, 17:27:29
I think that’s true of the railways as well, hence you’d have no problems getting in enough staff for a reduced Boxing Day Service if the offer is good enough.

Agreed, but possibly causing severe overcrowding as pretty much *everyone wanting to get home* would try & use those trains, rather than a full service on the 27th/spreading themselves out, especially when the 27th is a workday.
The overcrowding/unable to board would generate the complaints one might expect. Is it something the TOCs want?

Also, the obvious question is how the extra cost (staffing being 25% of the cost of running a 'mormal' service) can be recovered. Would people pay extra? I doubt it generally, a few might, leading to empty seats if the fare differential between 26th & 27th was substantial.

I think the only way would be for the DfT to require a full Saturday service in new franchises with a triple pay/day off in lieu staff pay requirement for those choosing to work. How the lack of staff volunteering problem might be solved if it arose, I'm not sure. It could be used against the TOC should there be unrest at that time.

I think if there were trains on 26th as well as 27th it would spread things out a great deal more than the current situation of everyone trying to travel on the 27th................we cannot of course be sure either way......it would certainly be very handy for sporting events etc.

Is it fair to say though Chris that a significant part of the point you are trying to make, albeit quite subtly, taking into account premium pay etc is.......................Ooooooooos gunna pay for it?  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 23, 2017, 17:58:57
Of course that comes into it...but the bigger problem is that of capacity! Full football fixture list *plus* many returning from Christmas will surely result in ooosnot getting on their train. :-)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 23, 2017, 18:12:05
There was a full football fixture list today and people going away in their droves.  A few isolated problems but largely dealt with fairly easily.  We won’t know until we give it a go...  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 23, 2017, 19:03:22
Those going away have been doing so since Thursday evening....till tomorrow afternoon. More wish to return on Boxing Day to save holiday usage on the 27th when thats a working day methinks, which will concentrate the travelling.

You're right, it has to be tried with suitable warnings for those services with reservations when there's none left? But getting TOCs to try it with the costs involved will need DfT making payments or at least zero Advance fares


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 23, 2017, 19:45:22
I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 23, 2017, 19:55:49
I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.

Yep I'm driving back on Boxing Day, I'll report back too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 24, 2017, 00:45:57
I'll be driving the road equivalent of Nailsea & Backwell to Totnes on Boxing Day morning: I, too, will report back.  ;)

I will also look at splitting these latest posts off into their own new topic, as they don't relate to 'train crew shortages' directly.  ::)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 07:26:19
I’ll be flying out of Bristol Airport at 7am on Boxing Day  :o so will update how I get on there.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on December 24, 2017, 08:24:17
After many years in the past having to work over Christmas and Boxing Day improving the Railway infrastructure; having changed what I do few years ago I now enjoy staying at home over those two day and only travel locally  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 24, 2017, 08:28:42
After many years in the past having to work over Christmas and Boxing Day improving the Railway infrastructure; having changed what I do few years ago I now enjoy staying at home over those two day and only travel locally  :)

Me to.  When I started as an S&T Technician on the southern end of the WCML way back in the early 1970s, I worked many xmas eves/xmas days/Boxing days.  I remember trains running on xmas eve up to about 0200 on xmas day.  Oh fun times...... ::) :P

Any way, a happy xmas and new year to all.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on December 24, 2017, 11:12:15
This thread has been active several months now, and this issue appears to getting worse, not better.

Is there a serious reason for this? Does GWR have issues training enough drivers|guards generally, or for particular routes, or where they over reliant on overtime and drivers|guards are not doing as much now?

Whilst my main journey, from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads is frequent and short, I see many cancellations from the boards, and experience a fair number of them myself.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 24, 2017, 11:23:05
Interestingly despite it being a Sunday AND Christmas Eve today it seems sufficient staff have been resourced so far.

Up to 11am there have been no GWR cancellations or short workings and only one train formed with fewer than the planned number of coaches.

Indeed there are a handful of additional services planned for this afternoon in South Devon, but that may be adding ones which had been accidentally omitted from the original timetable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 24, 2017, 11:27:40
This thread has been active several months now, and this issue appears to getting worse, not better.

Is there a serious reason for this? Does GWR have issues training enough drivers|guards generally, or for particular routes, or where they over reliant on overtime and drivers|guards are not doing as much now?

Whilst my main journey, from Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads is frequent and short, I see many cancellations from the boards, and experience a fair number of them myself.

I understand that one of these is being delivered over Christmas and the New Year:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/magicwand.jpg)

It comes in the form of class 166 units which have already started to move down - enough for five or six diagrams from the start of service on 2nd January, with drivers and train managers who have been substantially away on training also returning from that training to drive the new services, allowing stock released to lengthen the remaining one car "multiple" unit (!) trains in the area, and indeed providing something of an oversupply allowing 150/1 trains to be released to go "up north".

It does all still depend on some works being completed over the next 8 days, sign-offs to allow electric trains to run between Maidenhead and Didcot (otherwise - watch the panic transfer back of the 166s!).  And of course, being "railway", it does require paperwork and certification of the magic wand in time.   Should that not happen, I expect we would see a storm of complaints about the overrun like we've never seen before!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 24, 2017, 11:42:53
According to WNXX Forum posts the Maidenhead to Didcot electrification has already been signed off: https://twitter.com/IanProsser7/status/944259672487399424


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 24, 2017, 11:48:32
I thought we had noted that already (maybe in another thread?)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on December 24, 2017, 12:03:38
It's amazing what double time and a 1/4 will do for people who 'never work Sundays'.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 24, 2017, 12:04:03
I thought we had noted that already (maybe in another thread?)

We may have done, Chris ... such is the volume of stuff happening and the busyness of the forum that things end up getting repeated.   Chris from Nailsea does an excellent lead job of joining threads up so they form a building reference later (we really appreciate that Chris), but it's the nature of breaking news that the same data may fly in from several angles at once.

I'm a tutor (in IT) in my day job. And one of the tips I learned, from a cynic, was to repeat myself.  "Tell they what you're going to tell them.  Tell them.  Tell them what you've told them. And they may remember it".   Now I don't hold fully with that, though there's an element of truth; there is certainly a need for a pulling together of individual threads into a total picture ("summarising and adding context").    And  I do wonder how anyone can see the full flow of posts here and elsewhere and take it all in ... so a moderate repetition of key items does (IMHO) more good than harm.

Quote
I thought we had noted that already (maybe in another thread?)

Repeating and highlighting certainly helps bring home key information - thank you for the highlight  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 24, 2017, 12:33:47
I was unaware it had been, the last thing I recall being mentioned was that it was due to be signed off between Xmas and NY, so good to see if it officially has been


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 24, 2017, 12:39:00
I was unaware it had been, the last thing I recall being mentioned was that it was due to be signed off between Xmas and NY, so good to see if it officially has been

I think that's right. The sign-off only happened last Friday morning, so it can hardly have been reported before that. Given how important this was, that is certainly taking it right down to the wire - or perhaps (like all well-behaved pantographs) up to the wire.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 24, 2017, 14:24:40
Yes, definitely signed off.

The main issue for the new year and new timetable is the 387 service extending to Didcot, and the few 12-car formations that will be operating.

Most drivers will not have driven an electric 8-car train west of Maidenhead, so they will be cautiously finding their feet when it comes to stop car markers and braking points.

12-car trains will provide a big capacity boost, but at stations like Slough, Maidenhead, and Twyford they will be stopping at platforms with the doors opening on as few as 7 cars, which will no doubt take a while for customers to get used to, and needs publicising extensively.  At Reading the rear four will be locked out of use, so again there's a performance risk of delays whilst that takes place.

I forsee those issues causing a few delays to begin with, but I think the crew shortage problem will be significantly eased.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 16:03:55
Been a much much better day today, the best for a long time  :)

Things looked to have been going smoothly with the diverts to and from Marylebone. I think GWR have been wise to just operate an hourly service along with the hourly services between Bristol and Reading (to change for services to Waterloo)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 24, 2017, 16:17:05
Yes, everyone who works today is on ‘double time and a quarter’ meaning there were enough volunteers to counter those who had taken the option to not work.  Same deal for New Years Eve as well.

The run up to Christmas was very poor, but the big getaway period itself has largely been very successful - largely due to it being spread out more.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 16:47:28
Sadly the same cannot be said for XC services with the already reduced timetable due to strike action being further reduced due to traincrew issues. Looking at RTT you have trains due to run cancelled operating only as empty coaching stock to their destinations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 24, 2017, 16:54:30
Been a much much better day today, the best for a long time  :)

Things looked to have been going smoothly with the diverts to and from Marylebone. I think GWR have been wise to just operate an hourly service along with the hourly services between Bristol and Reading (to change for services to Waterloo)

GWR - Nil   Northern - 73


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 17:20:08
GWR - Nil   Northern - 73
Perhaps Northern weren’t offering something as generous as GWR were for working today?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 24, 2017, 17:30:15
The run up to Christmas was very poor, but the big getaway period itself has largely been very successful - largely due to it being spread out more.

While this year's calendar has been relatively favourable for railway planners, it has been quite the opposite for SNCF. They have been getting flak for crowded trains and stations, and for "overbooking". Part of their excuse is that this year's school holidays start on the 23rd, which is as late is ever happens and it's been ages since the last one (actually 2006) so everyone has forgotten what to expect.

That is probably true, and the press comment is largely synthetic outrage. For a start all TGVs and some Intercités are reservation only, and while there may have been the odd glitch that led to people being unable to take their reserved seats that wasn't the big problem. It's the other Intercités where reservations are optional, and TERs that don't have reservations at all, that were so full it left barely enough elbow room for sending angry tweets.

I still haven't found out where SNCF tell you which Intercités require reservations, but I'm sure they must do somewhere. These are longer distance trains, of the traditional cross-country kind, and not very fast. I didn't realise until now that there are also long-distance TERs, which are even slower - so neither "express" nor "régional". For example, Paris Bercy-Lyon takes 3 hours to Dijon and 5 to Lyon.

SNCF didn't help their case when one of their staff tweeters used the word overbook and said they do it for the same reasons recently given here - people like the turn-up-and-go flexibility. Later they corrected that to point out these were trains with no bookings or admitting passengers without. Note that their unreserved tickets now valid for a week from the date you ask for - so the charge of "selling too many tickets" is less apt than it is here.

The complaint with most force was from people who did reserve but couldn't travel as the train was already full and in some cases left early for safety reasons. The SNCF answer was that they can't reasonably call the police to clear a train - but that is an admission that they don't attempt to regulate boarding on those trains (not so very many) nor enforce reservations.

Of course the journalistic comment didn't bother to understand any of that. And I do expect some here will be envious of that level of crowding.   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 24, 2017, 17:33:58
Sadly the same cannot be said for XC services with the already reduced timetable due to strike action being further reduced due to traincrew issues. Looking at RTT you have trains due to run cancelled operating only as empty coaching stock to their destinations.

Irrespective of the leverage it gives, you have to question the morals and human decency of those prepared to strike in these circumstances on Christmas Eve knowing the misery it will cause to thousands of people.

Great to hear that GWR services have held up so well today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 24, 2017, 19:12:43
Irrespective of the leverage it gives, you have to question the morals and human decency of those prepared to strike in these circumstances on Christmas Eve knowing the misery it will cause to thousands of people.

Great to hear that GWR services have held up so well today.

I think this is more than a little of an overreaction TG.

I would have thought that this year - with Christmas Eve being a Sunday and with the rush starting on Friday - this was more a symbolic strike at one of the least disruptive days. After all NR have already started Christmas shutdowns. 

I don't know if XC staff are contracted to do Sundays or whether it is voluntary...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 21:08:13
I would have thought that this year - with Christmas Eve being a Sunday and with the rush starting on Friday - this was more a symbolic strike at one of the least disruptive days. After all NR have already started Christmas shutdowns. 
Well the next XC strike day certainly won’t be a ‘symbolic’ one...it's on the 27th.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 24, 2017, 22:16:32
....and the 31st....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2017, 22:27:42
....and the 31st....
Yup, along with all the other dates in January across various TOCs. I guess that’s one thing we can be thankful for that GWR are one of the few TOCs not involved in an industrial dispute.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on December 25, 2017, 04:37:48
Irrespective of the leverage it gives, you have to question the morals and human decency of those prepared to strike in these circumstances on Christmas Eve knowing the misery it will cause to thousands of people.

Great to hear that GWR services have held up so well today.

I think this is more than a little of an overreaction TG.

I would have thought that this year - with Christmas Eve being a Sunday and with the rush starting on Friday - this was more a symbolic strike at one of the least disruptive days. After all NR have already started Christmas shutdowns. 

I don't know if XC staff are contracted to do Sundays or whether it is voluntary...

..and XC were also on strike on the 23rd..


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 26, 2017, 15:58:56
I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.

So, to report back as promised.  An early to mid-afternoon journey on Boxing Day taking in sections of the M1 and M40 as well as several major A roads, and I was surprised just how busy it was out there!  I would estimate, based on previous experience, around 70-80% as busy as a typical Sunday afternoon, which is probably the best day to use for comparisons.  Noticeably less HGV traffic as you would expect, but certainly no shortage of cars, and proof in my mind that, from a national public service perspective, more trains are needed on Boxing Day.  I'll be interested to hear other travellers experiences.

Obviously that's not an in-depth study, but I don't think anyone can seriously claim that if an extensive train service operated on Boxing Day nobody would use it, but there might be the potential for overcrowding if you didn't operate trains at a sufficient frequency, or ban walk-on fares.  Both are potential options (as is doing nothing!), but I think I favour the gradual introduction of routes, so you can stop the system being swamped by reducing the number of possible journeys being available, but once you've proven you can cope with the numbers (and you can entice sufficient staff in) you can introduce more routes as necessary.

So, for example, start off with Paddington to Oxford/Bristol/Westbury and Reading to Gatwick.  Then the following year extend to Bristol and Cardiff, then if all is going well Exeter, Swansea, Worcester and Gloucester the year after that, then finally Weston-Super-Mare, Plymouth and perhaps Cardiff-Portsmouth and there you have it.  From nothing, to most of the GWR routes within 5 years.   ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 26, 2017, 17:07:23
The M40 was pretty busy at 0700 this morning. We get to hear the swish of teaffic noise from the decking outside our house once a certain level is reached! That would mistly be football traffic.

Complaints from fans early on 5Live breakfast from those about to drive/catch a (free, put on by their club) coach that they had to go early as they couldn't have a drink until they got there, so had to travel early. I don't have much sympathy for fan drinking frankly


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 26, 2017, 17:22:47
I’ll be undertaking a long distance car journey Boxing Day afternoon, and will report back on the state of the motorways.  Perhaps any other forum members undertaking a similar journey could do the same?  A comparison with a typical Sunday on the motorways, with an allowance for the fact they’ll be slightly busier anyway because the train isn’t an option, will give a very good indication as to likely demand.

So, to report back as promised.  An early to mid-afternoon journey on Boxing Day taking in sections of the M1 and M40 as well as several major A roads, and I was surprised just how busy it was out there!  I would estimate, based on previous experience, around 70-80% as busy as a typical Sunday afternoon, which is probably the best day to use for comparisons.  Noticeably less HGV traffic as you would expect, but certainly no shortage of cars, and proof in my mind that, from a national public service perspective, more trains are needed on Boxing Day.  I'll be interested to hear other travellers experiences.

Obviously that's not an in-depth study, but I don't think anyone can seriously claim that if an extensive train service operated on Boxing Day nobody would use it, but there might be the potential for overcrowding if you didn't operate trains at a sufficient frequency, or ban walk-on fares.  Both are potential options (as is doing nothing!), but I think I favour the gradual introduction of routes, so you can stop the system being swamped by reducing the number of possible journeys being available, but once you've proven you can cope with the numbers (and you can entice sufficient staff in) you can introduce more routes as necessary.

So, for example, start off with Paddington to Oxford/Bristol/Westbury and Reading to Gatwick.  Then the following year extend to Bristol and Cardiff, then if all is going well Exeter, Swansea, Worcester and Gloucester the year after that, then finally Weston-Super-Mare, Plymouth and perhaps Cardiff-Portsmouth and there you have it.  From nothing, to most of the GWR routes within 5 years.   ;)

Clear run up the A38/M5/M4 from Plymouth, just over 3 hours door to door, time to drop off luggage/gifts in Taplow and then on to MK Dons to watch Argyle win 1-0, great journey, great result!  :)

Can't imagine being able to match that itinerary by train at the best of times!!! (......but would be good to have the option).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 29, 2017, 17:13:35
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa


Due to a shortage of train drivers between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.


Transwilts being hit quite hard too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2018, 14:55:39
A quick look at the GWR website reveals approximately 40 cancellations, most of which are LTV services and have appeared in the last hour, all due to shortage of train crew throughout peak time tonight and beyond. Possibly the worst I've seen......combined with the number of short formations this morning what a farcical start to the "Brave new World" of reliability and capacity we've all been promised.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 02, 2018, 15:24:33
And on the same day the fares went up.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on January 02, 2018, 15:25:58
Yes, a very poor start to the year.
I would have some sympathy with GWR if some exceptional circumstance had caused a sudden and unexpected staff shortage, but cant consider January the second to be in any way exceptional.

Never mind it will all be all right when the new trains come into service  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on January 02, 2018, 15:27:47
Would it be right to assume that these cancellations (or rather the crew shortage) have been known about all day? Most businesses would know what resources they have on the day (and even before) so why not make this information available earlier? Give people the chance to plan their day? Work from home/elsewhere if they can?





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on January 02, 2018, 15:38:44
To be generous to GWR, this MIGHT be a case of late shift drivers not turning up due to last minute sickness. Or of earlier shift drivers declining to work overtime.

Whatever the detail, it is the job of the TOC to recruit and retain enough staff to run the advertised service in all but truly exceptional conditions. GWR have failed miserably in this respect, for some months.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 15:49:44
Sorry, you can't expect companies to cover for industrial action (fake sickness is an RMT trick right now, so I include that) - how many companies have staff around to cover for unplanned or planned action, for example.

I'm not saying it is this, but if it was.

II has also posted elsewhere as to a reason staff shortages might be prevalent this week, but I can't find it. It can take many months to train a driver, and considerable cost. I agree rosters should all be covered, but unless you want higher fares, they aren't going to have drivers sat around just in case. That last happened over 30 years ago.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2018, 15:55:07
To be generous to GWR, this MIGHT be a case of late shift drivers not turning up due to last minute sickness. Or of earlier shift drivers declining to work overtime.

Whatever the detail, it is the job of the TOC to recruit and retain enough staff to run the advertised service in all but truly exceptional conditions. GWR have failed miserably in this respect, for some months.

GWR have recruited drivers in there hundreds, I would estimate in the region of 500 drivers in the past three or four years and that doesn’t include the recruiting of already qualified drivers but as quickly as they pass out new drivers others are leaving the company.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 15:55:31
I'm not saying it is this, but if it was.

Well it obviously isn't, so I'm not sure quite why you are saying it, even if you aren't.  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 15:59:43
GWR have recruited drivers in there hundreds, I would estimate in the region of 500 drivers in the past two or three years and that doesn’t include the recruiting of already qualified drivers but as quickly as they pass out new drivers others are leaving the company.

Quite a significant number of which do not live locally, or have moved themselves down here into rented accommodation leaving family at whatever distant town 'home' may be.  Unsurprisingly at the first opportunity they get a job with a TOC close to wherever home is.  Is it really beyond the wit of GWR to find people who are local? (cue League of Gentlemen impressions!).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on January 02, 2018, 16:12:35
If the current shortage is due to a higher than expected turnover I would expect HR to know the reason why and to address it.  Ditto if absence due to sickness is higher than expected.  Incidentally, I don’t buy this fake sickness suggestion.

Others have reported that RD and overtime payments have been reduced.  This is not the best strategy if you know you’re short (or going to be short) of Drivers and need to rely on RD and overtime working to keep the service going.  Drivers are a TOC’s most important resource and they need to be managed (in the broadest sense) effectively.

But then in my day there were experienced Employee Relations people.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 16:18:29
One TOC gave their drivers 28% over several years.....do you support going that far?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on January 02, 2018, 16:31:16
It’s not just the money.  Anyone in any job likes to feel valued, respected, treated reasonably etc.  I know plenty of people who have moved to a lower paid job and been happier for it because of the job satisfaction they get which they didn’t get before. 

You don’t necessarily need money to reduce turnover, just good management (again, in the broadest sense) to help retain staff who you may lose if you don’t treat them right.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2018, 16:43:25
If the current shortage is due to a higher than expected turnover I would expect HR to know the reason why and to address it.  Ditto if absence due to sickness is higher than expected.  Incidentally, I don’t buy this fake sickness suggestion.

Others have reported that RD and overtime payments have been reduced.  This is not the best strategy if you know you’re short (or going to be short) of Drivers and need to rely on RD and overtime working to keep the service going.  Drivers are a TOC’s most important resource and they need to be managed (in the broadest sense) effectively.

But then in my day there were experienced Employee Relations people.


Most progressive organisations regard customers as on a par with staff as their most important resource.

But then in the real world there's competition.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 16:45:33
I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2018, 16:51:56
I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2018, 16:55:45
GWR have recruited drivers in there hundreds, I would estimate in the region of 500 drivers in the past two or three years and that doesn’t include the recruiting of already qualified drivers but as quickly as they pass out new drivers others are leaving the company.

Quite a significant number of which do not live locally, or have moved themselves down here into rented accommodation leaving family at whatever distant town 'home' may be.  Unsurprisingly at the first opportunity they get a job with a TOC close to wherever home is.  Is it really beyond the wit of GWR to find people who are local? (cue League of Gentlemen impressions!).

At Paddington, a lot of drivers are  considered to be local.  I can’t remember many coming from outside London. Since I left I’ve seen ex-GWR drivers walking around in TfL uniforms and working for other London TOC’s. I don’t know about Oxford and Reading but, like London, they aren’t cheap places to move to and rent.  I guess if they haven’t got the number of local applicants to apply then there’s not much option.
I remember 3 years ago at Padd we had drivers worrying about job security because they considered the company to be recruiting far too many new drivers, now look at it!  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 17:01:25
I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.

Resource to me means something to be used.  Seems to be the dictionary definition as well?  Asset is a much better word.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 17:07:52
I guess if they haven’t got the number of local applicants to apply then there’s not much option.

I think that's the problem - local advertising is not being done effectively.  Appreciating that London is very different, I don't believe that there's not a pool of people living in Reading or Oxford or the surrounding villages that would make excellent train drivers and be more than happy to do the job if some kind of appropriate weighting was given living local to the depot during the application process. 

Would that fall foul of employment law?  As a business you could argue that people who live close to the depot are likely to be more punctual and be able to get to work when the weather is bad as well as more likely to stay.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on January 02, 2018, 17:09:22
I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.

A company’s resources may include many things, eg land, capital, plant, equipment, expertise, people (ie human resources, a horrible modern term) etc.

However, customers are most definitely NOT a resource.   How a company treats its customers is a completely different issue.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on January 02, 2018, 17:16:16
At the risk of being knee jerk reactive (and coming across as Mr Angry) - the first full work day of the new ‘improved’ timetable in the TV was a shambles,  especially through the rush hours.

Both trains I aimed for (in and out) of Reading were cancelled with others on the board in a similar state.

What is the point of FGW publishing a timetable they clearly cannot honour - whether the reasons be infrastructure issues, stock defects or the much discussed lack of drivers.

What should have been a positive experience day (perhaps negating some of the sticker shock of the new fare increases) was in fact firmly negative. Like most commuters I have waited pateniently through the massive amount of disruptions to the Paddington lines over the last 4 years - understanding that there was many hard yards to be experienced before something better would emerge.

Today was a joke. I’m expecting it to descend into farce as short-comings become more effident and continual.

I have attached the list of 35 cancellations listed from 5pm on Journey check around ( in the main) Reading. Most due to ‘lack of driver’.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 17:20:02
Indeed, a pathetic first day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2018, 17:28:44
Is it a simple lack of drivers or it is a lack of trained drivers (route briefings/traction training)?

I’m guessing it’s a shortage of 387 trained drivers. Now electrification extends to Didcot and there’s more 387’s running perhaps now they’ve got more services on which drivers can be trained on.

Edit:  I see some services are now being reinstated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2018, 17:45:32
I'm not sure many passengers would be happy being described as a resource?

I appreciate that regarding your customers as an asset to be treated accordingly is utterly alien to the railways, and therefore I get why the concept has gone straight over your head.

Resource to me means something to be used.  Seems to be the dictionary definition as well?  Asset is a much better word.

An asset is a resource with economic value.....this particular asset is on a 2 car Turbo  (usually 8 car Electric) stopper packed beyond belief before it's even left Paddington.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on January 02, 2018, 17:46:18
My original query wasn't so much about the lack of drivers but GWR knowing that they had a shortage today (and other days). Putting that to one side (for a moment anyway) did they really only realise they couldn't cover shifts a couple of hours ago?

As someone who has had to rota staff in the past I look at what I have for the day and then give teams affected by lack of 'resource' as much notice as possible. Am I missing something in not assuming that GWR would have known at 8am today or yesterday what trains they could run allowing for a small notice of short notice changes?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2018, 17:53:29
They would have certainly had a fair idea, though a lot of juggling goes on during the day to try and minimise shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 02, 2018, 18:11:39
Hence some reinstatements.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2018, 18:12:00
They would have certainly had a fair idea, though a lot of juggling goes on during the day to try and minimise shortages.

Not enough jugglers but a load of balls.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on January 02, 2018, 18:53:04
Well there were 35 cancellations, then it dropped to 14 - just now back up to 27.

That’s all within 1 hour.

How the hell are passengers supposed to know if a train is going to run or not ? Crystal Ball ? Make a phone call to FGW M.D.

How does this install confidence ?

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2018, 19:31:44
There’s Turbos coming back from Bristol being put back on service trains in the Thames Valley


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 02, 2018, 19:39:06
There’s Turbos coming back from Bristol being put back on service trains in the Thames Valley
Funny, was just about to suggest ‘would you like some Turbos back?’ But where does that leave the West fleet bearing in mind some 150 stock has already left for up North?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on January 02, 2018, 22:41:11
At first glance I thought it was a tongue in cheek comment...

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O57302/2018/01/02/advanced


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 03, 2018, 06:26:30
There’s Turbos coming back from Bristol being put back on service trains in the Thames Valley
Funny, was just about to suggest ‘would you like some Turbos back?’ But where does that leave the West fleet bearing in mind some 150 stock has already left for up North?

It leaves the west fleet short ... at least six diagrams involved ...

Quote

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:31 will be cancelled.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Facilities on the 08:00 Cardiff Central to Paignton due 11:20.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.
 
Facilities on the 06:58 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 08:10.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

Facilities on the 07:33 Westbury to Swindon due 08:19.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.

Facilities on the 07:35 Taunton to Bristol Parkway due 09:03.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.

Facilities on the 07:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:52.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 03, 2018, 06:42:59

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

But run the trains involves actually having some trains available to them. No amount of money is going to get a train to magically appear in the depot! 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 03, 2018, 07:12:11

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

But run the trains involves actually having some trains available to them. No amount of money is going to get a train to magically appear in the depot! 


You'll find them in the depot.....more than usual of these (brand new) trains need repair (apparently).......maybe you need some mechanics to magically appear.....or the RMT to stop encouraging drivers to phone in sick? (Allegedly) 😉


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 03, 2018, 07:46:38
It leaves the west fleet short ... at least six diagrams involved ...

Quote

07:23 Warminster to Great Malvern due 10:31 will be cancelled.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Facilities on the 08:00 Cardiff Central to Paignton due 11:20.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.
 
Facilities on the 06:58 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 08:10.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

Facilities on the 07:33 Westbury to Swindon due 08:19.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 1 coach instead of 2.

Facilities on the 07:35 Taunton to Bristol Parkway due 09:03.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.

Facilities on the 07:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 10:52.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5.

To list but a few, West Services taking quite a hit looking at JourneyCheck this morning with many short formed services or services starting/ending short.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on January 03, 2018, 09:51:01
Well there were 35 cancellations, then it dropped to 14 - just now back up to 27.

That’s all within 1 hour.

How the hell are passengers supposed to know if a train is going to run or not ? Crystal Ball ? Make a phone call to FGW M.D.

How does this install confidence ?

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

I E-Mailed Mark Hopwood at the end of last week not just about crew shortages but also about "More trains than usual under repair" and requesting a Public Statement be issued.   Guess what ?   No reply


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on January 03, 2018, 09:53:50
It’s not just the money.  Anyone in any job likes to feel valued, respected, treated reasonably etc.  I know plenty of people who have moved to a lower paid job and been happier for it because of the job satisfaction they get which they didn’t get before. 

You don’t necessarily need money to reduce turnover, just good management (again, in the broadest sense) to help retain staff who you may lose if you don’t treat them right.


The wages paid to train drivers seem to me to be generous. If recruiting or retaining drivers is problematic then that certainly suggests that it is about more than the money.
There is a fairly widely held view among train drivers that there are too many "bright young managers" often with irrelevant degrees, whose job seems to be to victimise drivers.
Said young managers are widely believed to despise the train drivers whom are paid a lot more than the managers.

It is alleged by some drivers, that managers employ underhand tactics to catch them out. Examples include use of forward facing CCTV to catch drivers going the other way whilst not wearing correct uniform, and telephoning a drivers mobile number during a shift in the hope that they will answer and can then be disciplined.

Such behaviour would not help to retain drivers.

I have left a (non railway) job because of overbearing management and their security staff. Said security staff appeared to view their job as being to trap employees into breaking the rules, rather than the detection of actual dishonesty. And they wondered why retaining staff was difficult !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2018, 10:56:19
The wages paid to train drivers seem to me to be generous. If recruiting or retaining drivers is problematic then that certainly suggests that it is about more than the money.
There is a fairly widely held view among train drivers that there are too many "bright young managers" often with irrelevant degrees, whose job seems to be to victimise drivers.
Said young managers are widely believed to despise the train drivers whom are paid a lot more than the managers.

Are you quoting hearsay or have you actually spoken to any drivers? Many? I'm not calling your hearsay untrue, but I think you need to be upfront about your statement.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on January 03, 2018, 12:28:49
The wages paid to train drivers seem to me to be generous. If recruiting or retaining drivers is problematic then that certainly suggests that it is about more than the money.
There is a fairly widely held view among train drivers that there are too many "bright young managers" often with irrelevant degrees, whose job seems to be to victimise drivers.
Said young managers are widely believed to despise the train drivers whom are paid a lot more than the managers.

Are you quoting hearsay or have you actually spoken to any drivers? Many? I'm not calling your hearsay untrue, but I think you need to be upfront about your statement.

I have actually spoken to several train drivers, all of whom have expressed very negative views about young managers without railway experience, whom they consider are "out to get drivers"
Two work for south west trains, as they were known at the time of the conversation.
One works for GWR.
One worked for south west trains, but was dismissed unfairly. BTW, the "unfairly" bit is not simply their view, they won compensation for unfair dismissal.
I also know well a driver who works for a rail freight company, they moved from a passenger TOC due to what they considered as the bad management attitude at the passenger TOC. They speak well of their present employer.

I have also heard hearsay expressing similar views.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 03, 2018, 13:19:56
And I have a train driving friend who's just moved from freight to passenger. He speaks well of his present employer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Henry on January 03, 2018, 15:29:38

 I do not think the 'rumblings' of low morale is solely restricted to driver's.

 In the South Devon area, where their are a lot of experienced railway people, I'm heard of similar stories.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on January 04, 2018, 16:53:45
Well there were 35 cancellations, then it dropped to 14 - just now back up to 27.

That’s all within 1 hour.

How the hell are passengers supposed to know if a train is going to run or not ? Crystal Ball ? Make a phone call to FGW M.D.

How does this install confidence ?

I’d like FGW to get behind a hashtag #honourthetimetable - and state as policy that no matter what the occurrence, they will run the trains timetables - even if in doing so they take a financial hit.

What says everyone ? Do we start adding #honourthetimetable with every communication with FGW ?

I E-Mailed Mark Hopwood at the end of last week not just about crew shortages but also about "More trains than usual under repair" and requesting a Public Statement be issued.   Guess what ?   No reply

I have now received a reply acknowledging my E-Mail addressed to the MD and we will reply in due course.    No progress, just left to Customer to concoct some reply which probably won't answer the question.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 04, 2018, 17:33:26

 I do not think the 'rumblings' of low morale is solely restricted to driver's.

 In the South Devon area, where their are a lot of experienced railway people, I'm heard of similar stories.

I think driver morale it different depending on the depot.

As for managers, there’s not many with actual driving experience or front line experience and that cause some issues, but, you won’t find many drivers wanting to give up driving to become a manager so I suppose they don’t have much choice. Most of our managers tend to just leave you alone to get on with it.
Morale is also affected by events that GWR can’t control. Most of us want to get back and finish on time, train managers want a smooth trip with no grief etc!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 07, 2018, 08:33:25
IC services taking a real hit today with 17 cancellations listed with others terminating short. Surprisingly, ‘West’ services all looking good...so far.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 07, 2018, 10:09:09
IC services taking a real hit today with 17 cancellations listed with others terminating short. Surprisingly, ‘West’ services all looking good...so far.

.......cancellations getting further West unfortunately.........

19:57 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 22:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 07, 2018, 17:16:29
Oh dear...

Quote
Cancellations to services between Swansea and Bristol Parkway
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swansea and Bristol Parkway all lines are disrupted.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 19:00 07/01.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 07, 2018, 17:37:37
Shameful  >:(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: alphaline on January 14, 2018, 17:26:56
A couple of years ago around 100 were rumoured to be in a talent pool for trainee driver courses with most of those for Bristol depot.

Those who were 'accepted' were fed emails every three months with vague wording implying that the candidates would be selected based on overall scores (never mind the fact they had passed three interviews and psychometrics)

Noone was told their score.  The carrot continued to be dangled for months which was great for morale.  Some people got taken on and well done to them.

Six months was enough for me.  I applied elsewhere and got my key despite enduring a pay cut in the process.  I would imagine many others did the same.

Recruitment is a nightmare in the rail industry generally when it comes to drivers and the Great Western electrification delay was largely to blame.

However their recruitment process really needs looking at.  Hopefully it has now improved.  I wonder how many who 'passed' this process got given jobs how many had to reapply and of those how many then failed the tests.  Obviously it is worth it in the end but taking 100 drivers on at one depot was never going to work.  Recent vacancies tend to at least be honest about the 'possibility' of placements rather than giving people false hope. 

There must be plenty still in a talent pool who could reduce these cancellations.  More incentive needed for DIs too?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 14, 2018, 19:10:26
Thank you for posting that fascinating insight to the GWR driver recruitment process, alphaline - and a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  :)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 28, 2018, 09:49:04
...........all cancelled today due to shortage of train crew - good to see GWR getting on top of the problem.....best of luck if you're travelling to/from West Wales today, buses from Swindon/Cardiff are "looking to be sourced"


08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44

10:37 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 15:29

11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:33

12:37 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:27

13:05 Bristol Temple Meads to Taunton due 14:04

13:37 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 18:30

14:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:18

15:19 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 16:20

15:23 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 20:32

15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:18

16:37 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:30

17:15 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:08

17:21 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 22:13

19:15 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:17

19:20 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 00:12


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 28, 2018, 10:18:22
Isn’t that pretty much the entire Swansea/Cardiff to London service wiped out after 3pm today?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on January 28, 2018, 15:45:07
Perhaps they are all needed in Cardiff, to take all those sobbing light blue Mancunians back to Manchester ??!!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on January 28, 2018, 16:08:14
Or could it be ;-

Lack of train crew signing the diversionary route.

 ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 28, 2018, 17:38:33
Or could it be ;-

Lack of train crew signing the diversionary route.

 ::)
Could well be martyjon. Whatever the reason it’s been a very poor service operating between South Wales and London today.

And there was me going to post to this thread earlier today how much things have improved on local ‘West’ services which they have only for the perennial problem of lack of train crew to pop up somewhere else. Still, at least it’s been a better day on the North Cotswold line.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on January 28, 2018, 18:26:39
Sorry getting my b's and d's muddled up there! ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on February 03, 2018, 20:37:47
Sorry getting my b's and d's muddled up there! ;D

Dugger.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on February 03, 2018, 23:27:37
Bings bollage bainbridge ?.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on February 04, 2018, 15:13:42
Bings bollage bainbridge ?.

[pedant]
(Khaki, Kettle, Kipling, Kuwait,) Kings Bollege Bambridge.
[/pedant]

[pedant back on again]
Although that is only on the record. It was Keble Bollege Oxford in the original TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2LaJOVAiA
[/pedant back off]


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on February 04, 2018, 16:38:21
Poke in the eye with a sharp stick ?  Different sketch same album Live at Druy Lane 😀


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 09, 2018, 22:17:06
.....not ideal on a Friday night....all cancelled due to crew shortage;

21:29 Reading to London Paddington due 22:28
23:00 London Paddington to Reading due 23:57
23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:16
00:14 Reading to London Paddington due 01:11
01:34 London Paddington to Reading due 02:28


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 11, 2018, 09:24:37
Terrible today affecting HSS services,  Cheltenham services especially hit.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on February 11, 2018, 09:30:44
Suspect the start of half term in many areas has reduced the number of staff volunteering to work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2018, 09:47:05
Terrible today affecting HSS services,  Cheltenham services especially hit.

Woeful.

GWR seem no nearer to addressing the Sunday issue. I would not currently recommend planning long distance Sunday travel by rail to anyone.............that's before even taking the weekday staffing situation into account.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: welshman on February 11, 2018, 11:07:28
It is nothing short of preposterous that any company should try to run a 7 day business with staff only contracted to a 6 or even 5 day week.

The majority of organisations (eg the NHS) have rotas and you have to do your turn.   My daughter is a "junior doctor" (7 years qualified) and she has to do her nights/weekends/public holiday shifts as part of her contract.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7575 on February 11, 2018, 16:12:33
Perhaps the future newly nationalised railway will have standardised national 7/7 contracts?

Paul


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2018, 17:15:20
Perhaps the future newly nationalised railway will have standardised national 7/7 contracts?

Paul

..............run that one past the Unions!

I suspect that the current situation is a legacy of old BR terms and conditions which GWR et al have not had the cojones to challenge?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on February 11, 2018, 17:45:31
It is nothing short of preposterous that any company should try to run a 7 day business with staff only contracted to a 6 or even 5 day week.

The majority of organisations (eg the NHS) have rotas and you have to do your turn.   My daughter is a "junior doctor" (7 years qualified) and she has to do her nights/weekends/public holiday shifts as part of her contract.

Agree entirely, I feel that enforcing a significant change on existing staff would be unreasonable, and possible contrary to employment law.
I have however previously suggested that all new staff should be required to work weekends, there is nothing unreasonable about this if the requirement is made clear at the recruitment stage.
There would still be a need for some voluntary overtime working by existing staff for some years, but at least it would be a steadily reducing problem rather than ongoing and perhaps worsening.
I would also suggest that if existing employees apply for a new role, that the new role should require weekend working. Anyone who considers this to be unreasonable need not apply.

A more radical proposal might be to allow existing train crew who are about to retire, to continue part time work at weekends only, for say a year.
Todays increasingly busy railway is not the place for very elderly workers, but I also doubt that a driver or train manger suddenly become unfit/unsafe on a certain birthday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 11, 2018, 18:40:44
I thought we had seen the back of this at the start of the year, been a poor excuse of a service on HSS lines to South Wales and Cheltenham.

As for services to/from Carmarthen why don’t GWR give up?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 11, 2018, 18:44:19
I fear for summer weekends if they can’t cover at the moment despite plenty of bribes being handed out.

Meetings between Union and company continue with regard to bringing Sunday’s in the working week for drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 11, 2018, 18:53:45
I fear for summer weekends if they can’t cover at the moment despite plenty of bribes being handed out.
Last summer wasn’t great if I remember rightly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 11, 2018, 18:58:13
As for services to/from Carmarthen why don’t GWR give up?

Perhaps they are doing - the Red / Blue franchises map shows neither franchise going beyond Swansea, and the consultation asks about services logically taken away or added in.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2018, 19:18:52
I fear for summer weekends if they can’t cover at the moment despite plenty of bribes being handed out.

Meetings between Union and company continue with regard to bringing Sunday’s in the working week for drivers.

What progress has been achieved through these meetings? Are they anywhere near an agreement to resolve this ridiculous situation?

If the "safety" issues around DOO with Southern can be evaporated by a huge pay rise I'm sure a similar approach would ultimately do the trick here.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 11, 2018, 23:44:20
Sufficient progress has obviously been made for the meetings to continue, though I don’t know much more than that.

Comparisons with Southern are misleading as they were in dispute and so far there seems precious little appetite from the Government or other stakeholders to get involved and put pressure on GWR to resolve the issue.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on February 12, 2018, 18:19:02
All fast and semi fast services to Maidenhead cancelled due to staff shortages.

Utterly useless.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 14, 2018, 07:33:58
Serious problems and overcrowding at Maidenhead this morning due to several peak cancellations caused by insufficient staff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on February 14, 2018, 08:38:51
Quote
This service has been cancelled. This is due to more staff asking for half term week off than usual and management accepting all these requests as usual.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on February 14, 2018, 09:09:06
Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 14, 2018, 09:26:32
Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?

Almost inevitably, & throughout August and any other half terms/Bank Holidays............despite these all being in calendars for months and able to be planned for by management.............well most businesses seem to manage it OK without their service melting down.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on February 14, 2018, 09:32:32
I wish when I had to do rotas for a 24/7 service I could just cancel services and just put a note up saying 'sorry'.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 14, 2018, 09:35:07
I wish when I had to do rotas for a 24/7 service I could just cancel services and just put a note up saying 'sorry'.

Yep, me too! Life would have been so much easier!!!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 14, 2018, 12:01:12
Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?

As far as I know all the driver and guard depots have leave allocations that run out at the end of the year, not at the end of March. 

A very small number of days can be carried over at the depot managers discretion.  That sometimes happens if a driver has tried to take holiday in December, but has had the request declined (as little as 48 hours notice as to whether you have got a day off or not is given) and they have had no opportunity to apply for another day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 14, 2018, 13:15:25
Does GWR's leave period run from April to March like many office based jobs? If so, does that mean there will be another spike in leave related absence in the run up to Easter weekend, which is right at the beginning of April?

As far as I know all the driver and guard depots have leave allocations that run out at the end of the year, not at the end of March. 

A very small number of days can be carried over at the depot managers discretion.  That sometimes happens if a driver has tried to take holiday in December, but has had the request declined (as little as 48 hours notice as to whether you have got a day off or not is given) and they have had no opportunity to apply for another day.

Just out of interest, how many days annual leave do drivers/guards get with GWR (roughly)?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 14, 2018, 13:23:59
It varies slightly from depot to depot and grade to grade, but around 30 is probably the average.  Higher than most people, but if you are rostered to work on Bank Holidays and want to take the day off it comes out of that total (no days in lieu), and if Christmas Day and Boxing Day fall on days you are due to work then they come off the total as well.  Usually just over 50% of those days are allocated to block weeks, with the rest ad-hoc.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 14, 2018, 19:55:02
It varies slightly from depot to depot and grade to grade, but around 30 is probably the average.  Higher than most people, but if you are rostered to work on Bank Holidays and want to take the day off it comes out of that total (no days in lieu), and if Christmas Day and Boxing Day fall on days you are due to work then they come off the total as well.  Usually just over 50% of those days are allocated to block weeks, with the rest ad-hoc.
So that 2 days more than the statutory minimum if it includes bank holidays isn't it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 14, 2018, 21:19:45
It varies slightly from depot to depot and grade to grade, but around 30 is probably the average.  Higher than most people, but if you are rostered to work on Bank Holidays and want to take the day off it comes out of that total (no days in lieu), and if Christmas Day and Boxing Day fall on days you are due to work then they come off the total as well.  Usually just over 50% of those days are allocated to block weeks, with the rest ad-hoc.

And with ad-hoc leave only a certain number of staff will be guaranteed it.  The amount guaranteed depends on the size of the depot.  For example, if 8 drivers put in for leave 3 could be guaranteed the day off the remainder will only be granted if all the jobs from the depot are covered.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 15, 2018, 07:42:39
And this morning, the 0624 from Bristol Parkway to Penzance was cancelled (second time this week), only to appear at Bristol Temple Meads twenty minutes later (a nice announcement as I left my interstation taxi at Temple Meads).

Interestingly, a co-passenger confirmed that Bristol Depot where struggling to cope with their work load after a large amount of staff left GWR to work for Hitachi at Stoke Gifford.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 15, 2018, 12:27:32
Might be a good idea for GWR to produce a special timetable for each school holiday seems they are unable to run the advertised service, that way everyone would at least have more confidence that their train would run.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 15, 2018, 21:01:30
Late evening LTV services decimated again - all cancelled due to lack of drivers.

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:08
22:18 London Paddington to Oxford due 23:29
22:21 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 00:02
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:45
23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:16
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:50


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 15, 2018, 21:47:31
Late evening LTV services decimated again - all cancelled due to lack of drivers.

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:08
22:18 London Paddington to Oxford due 23:29
22:21 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 00:02
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:45
23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:16
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:50
What are people who were due to travel on these trains expected to do?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 15, 2018, 21:59:59
GWR Twitter's cut and paste:-

 Sorry for the cancellations this evening. We do have staff on standby to cover to prevent these situations but sometimes we can't always get them to where they are needed to be in time, this therefore causes delays/cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 15, 2018, 22:02:50
..............I certainly wouldn't advise going via Waterloo..........

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/waterloo-station-delays-south-western-railway-commuters-caught-up-in-huge-crowds-at-uk-s-busiest-hub-a3767951.html


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on February 15, 2018, 23:03:44
..............I certainly wouldn't advise going via Waterloo..........

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/waterloo-station-delays-south-western-railway-commuters-caught-up-in-huge-crowds-at-uk-s-busiest-hub-a3767951.html

Too late. I turned my phone volume off whilst at work today and consequently missed the alert for journeycheck emails. Got home an hour and a half later than expected. Once I finish reading todays coffee shop posts I'm onto the Delay repay website for the second time this week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on February 16, 2018, 07:56:19
Quote
22:21 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 00:02

So I wonder how the good people of Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn got home last night?

(there is of course a later train for stations to Newbury, as long as that wasn't cancelled aswell ::))


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 16, 2018, 08:07:03
This thread, and many others on this forum, are a sad indictment of just how shit GWR has become as a train operator.

All the factors affecting rolling stock cascades, maintenance,  training, staffing levels, infrastructure improvements, haven't just crept up on GWR unannounced. They've been known about for years. GWR have failed spectacularly to plan effectively.

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 16, 2018, 08:22:35
That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.
Couple this with the great time First are having running the SW franchise. Stagecoach must think they dodged a bullet losing the SW franchise or they saw trouble coming and put in a low bid.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 16, 2018, 08:29:47
I think Stagecoach did see the trouble ahead. They refused the DfT's offer of a contract extension which meant the franchise re-tender was triggered earlier than HMG wished.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 16, 2018, 09:03:07
I think Stagecoach did see the trouble ahead. They refused the DfT's offer of a contract extension which meant the franchise re-tender was triggered earlier than HMG wished.
Exactly, so the writing was on the wall back then.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 16, 2018, 11:20:54
This thread, and many others on this forum, are a sad indictment of just how shit GWR has become as a train operator.

All the factors affecting rolling stock cascades, maintenance,  training, staffing levels, infrastructure improvements, haven't just crept up on GWR unannounced. They've been known about for years. GWR have failed spectacularly to plan effectively.

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.

To say that GWR are totally responsible for current situation is totally incorrect. 
The promised electrification work has been delayed and deferred...... responsible party, the DfT and NR. 
The cascade of units away from the franchise was agreed by the DfT in the new franchise for Northern.  GWR were not even consulted by the DfT, the first they knew was in the franchise spec for Northern . 
Extensions were granted to the lease of the HST's for as long as possible but ultimately work to the sets for ScotRail had been signed.
Staff who were working for Wabtec on the short HST sets for the West Country were poached by Hitachi which contributed to deadlines being missed
Staff working at GWR depots left because the company couldn't give assurances on their future employment.  Then the plans changed and it is now too late.
The request from GWR for additional units to cover was declined.  Chiltern were approached.  There are no other units available to lease.
The levels of staffing is specified by the DfT.  The level of staffing has been met.  The DfT/TFL paid for GWR to recruit and train a specified number of drivers.  This was also met.
Just some of the reasons why the DfT can't kick the butt of GWR.  Nothing to do with scaring them off.  The DfT simply know who's at fault.
GWR threw money at us, and I think they still are, for drivers to become more flexible in regards to working new trains and training.

You can't train drivers on the new trains if you firstly haven't got the infrastructure to run the new trains.  You also can't train drivers if the manufacturer of the trains haven't handed them over to the train operator. 
There's in the region of 300 drivers, probably more than that, working on the Thames Valley routes alone.  You can't train all them overnight.  The whole electrification project has been completely mishandled by the DfT and NR and GWR have been left to pick up the pieces.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 16, 2018, 11:42:29
This thread, and many others on this forum, are a sad indictment of just how shit GWR has become as a train operator.

All the factors affecting rolling stock cascades, maintenance,  training, staffing levels, infrastructure improvements, haven't just crept up on GWR unannounced. They've been known about for years. GWR have failed spectacularly to plan effectively.

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.

You can't train drivers on the new trains if you firstly haven't got the infrastructure to run the new trains.  You also can't train drivers if the manufacturer of the trains haven't handed them over to the train operator. 
There's in the region of 300 drivers, probably more than that, working on the Thames Valley routes alone.  You can't train all them overnight.  The whole electrification project has been completely mishandled by the DfT and NR and GWR have been left to pick up the pieces.

I'd suggest if that's your opinion that you discuss it with GWR, as their direct response to the question posed last night was as follows;

Customer: "Last month, 2 of your staff at RDG told me you didn’t have enough trained drivers to run the new electric trains. Is this not true (in which case you need to inform your staff)?"

GWR: "This is not true"

.............the "party line" seems almost as inconsistent as the train service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 16, 2018, 12:02:14
This thread, and many others on this forum, are a sad indictment of just how shit GWR has become as a train operator.

All the factors affecting rolling stock cascades, maintenance,  training, staffing levels, infrastructure improvements, haven't just crept up on GWR unannounced. They've been known about for years. GWR have failed spectacularly to plan effectively.

That is a failure of the senior management and directors at GWR and FirstGroup. Someone should be kicking their butts. The problem is the only potential butt kickers are the DfT. For ideological reasons the current incumbents there won't do anything for fear of upsetting FirstGroup and scaring them away from rail franchising.

You can't train drivers on the new trains if you firstly haven't got the infrastructure to run the new trains.  You also can't train drivers if the manufacturer of the trains haven't handed them over to the train operator. 
There's in the region of 300 drivers, probably more than that, working on the Thames Valley routes alone.  You can't train all them overnight.  The whole electrification project has been completely mishandled by the DfT and NR and GWR have been left to pick up the pieces.

I'd suggest if that's your opinion that you discuss it with GWR, as their direct response to the question posed last night was as follows;

Customer: "Last month, 2 of your staff at RDG told me you didn’t have enough trained drivers to run the new electric trains. Is this not true (in which case you need to inform your staff)?"

GWR: "This is not true"

.............the "party line" seems almost as inconsistent as the train service.

I doubt very much that the Twitter team know exactly how much drivers are trained on a certain traction at each depot.  Ask them in terms of a % how many are trained!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 16, 2018, 13:15:13
The Twitter team are just left to do their best to answer questions but the answers are actually in the "back office".
Re the DFT, what can be expected if civil servants with little railway experience are making important rail decisions and micro-managing.   I understand that the hierarchy of TOCs are not allowed to put any blame to the DFT thus allowing the TOCs  to take all the flak when anything goes wrong while the real perpetrators are allowed to hide away in the background and not willing to accept any criticism.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: simonw on February 16, 2018, 13:37:42
Whilst I except that that GWR is not fully to blame for the current poor show, I am sure that if every passenger whose train was cancelled at short notice, or whose train was running late, received either  100% or 50% refund of the walk on fare, then GWR and DfT would sort out this issue.

Whilst many cancellations are not a big issue for many, compensation should be given just to encourage GWR|DfT to do better. However, if you where to miss the 0624 Bristol Parkway to Penzance train, you then have a 3 hour hole in your day. This has happened this week, Monday and Thursday.
 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 16, 2018, 16:23:48
Whilst I except that that GWR is not fully to blame for the current poor show, I am sure that if every passenger whose train was cancelled at short notice, or whose train was running late, received either  100% or 50% refund of the walk on fare, then GWR and DfT would sort out this issue.

Whilst many cancellations are not a big issue for many, compensation should be given just to encourage GWR|DfT to do better. However, if you where to miss the 0624 Bristol Parkway to Penzance train, you then have a 3 hour hole in your day. This has happened this week, Monday and Thursday.
 

I'll tell you the best way to focus a few minds and encourage a swift improvement - link senior management pay rises/bonuses to customer satisfaction ratings - you'd soon see a bit more urgency if that happened.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 16, 2018, 19:31:58
Whilst I except that that GWR is not fully to blame for the current poor show, I am sure that if every passenger whose train was cancelled at short notice, or whose train was running late, received either  100% or 50% refund of the walk on fare, then GWR and DfT would sort out this issue.

Whilst many cancellations are not a big issue for many, compensation should be given just to encourage GWR|DfT to do better. However, if you where to miss the 0624 Bristol Parkway to Penzance train, you then have a 3 hour hole in your day. This has happened this week, Monday and Thursday.
 

I'll tell you the best way to focus a few minds and encourage a swift improvement - link senior management pay rises/bonuses to customer satisfaction ratings - you'd soon see a bit more urgency if that happened.

No you wouldn't..... because if I knew management pay rises/bonses were linked to customer satisfaction ratings I would ensure my satisfaction was always deeply negative!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 16, 2018, 20:54:07
A study of the effect of bonuses found that most people on incentive bonus schemes were incentivised by doing a good job, not by money. 

Looking at some recent City scandals where some others are motivated by money, it appears it motivates them to do things that are not in the long term interests of the company, sometimes not even in the short term interests, and possibly in some cases to fiddle to books to make it look like they achieved their targets. 

Many years ago I received extremely poor service when trying to buy a car, which I am convinced was due to the salesman (he was a man) either having such a low basic salary that he needed the bonus or was too incentivised by it that he wanted to sell me what would give him a bonus not what I wanted. Had his colleague not intervened I would have walked out at the point of sale. 

It seems to me that bonuses are at best a waste of money and at worst an incentive to fiddle the books. 



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 17, 2018, 00:22:47
A study of the effect of bonuses found that most people on incentive bonus schemes were incentivised by doing a good job, not by money. 

Looking at some recent City scandals where some others are motivated by money, it appears it motivates them to do things that are not in the long term interests of the company, sometimes not even in the short term interests, and possibly in some cases to fiddle to books to make it look like they achieved their targets. 

Many years ago I received extremely poor service when trying to buy a car, which I am convinced was due to the salesman (he was a man) either having such a low basic salary that he needed the bonus or was too incentivised by it that he wanted to sell me what would give him a bonus not what I wanted. Had his colleague not intervened I would have walked out at the point of sale. 

It seems to me that bonuses are at best a waste of money and at worst an incentive to fiddle the books. 



That's why I said link their bonuses to customer satisfaction rather than profitability or revenue generation.

A high % of satisfied customers is generally a good indication that people are doing a good job.

The "City scandals" you refer to aren't remotely comparable in this context.

If you feel however (based on inside knowledge?) that GWR senior managers are the sort of people who would be incentivised to fiddle the books in order to maximise their bonuses, that raises a whole new issue around their integrity, upon which I wouldn't care to speculate.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on February 17, 2018, 06:39:51
Given that there are 25 cancellations on JourneyCheck as of 06:30 this morning, something needs to be done:

Quote
06:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:14
07:10 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 09:00
07:31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 09:39
08:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 10:14
09:10 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 11:01
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:15
10:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:14
10:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 12:30
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:14
12:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:40
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:39
13:04 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 15:07
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:41
14:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:41
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:14
15:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 17:30
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:38
16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:14
17:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 19:30
18:07 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 20:07
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:14
18:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 20:30
19:59 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 22:07
20:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 22:44
21:09 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 23:13


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 17, 2018, 08:04:23
Up to 31 cancellations now.......but don't worry, the GWR website is advising;

There is generally a good service on the GWR network.

So no need to worry!  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 17, 2018, 08:23:15
Up to 31 cancellations now.......but don't worry, the GWR website is advising;

There is generally a good service on the GWR network.

So no need to worry!  ::)

With the intent of being controversial ... 31 cancellations out of over 1500 scheduled GWR services is around 2% - 1 in 50.  Which whilst it is around 4 times more than the 99.5% to run that's supposed to happen, but 49 out of 50 are running.   I do note at least one point where two successive services from Paddington via Swindon are lost, but I am not seeing massive gaps without any trains at all. Whether the surviving trains will cope with the crowds ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 17, 2018, 08:43:26
There can be no defence for GWR having to cancel so many IC services today particularly to/from South Wales where the service is just hourly coupled with those travelling from Swansea and Cardiff having to get a bus to Newport owing to engineering work.

Bristol-Paddington outside the morning and evening ‘weekend peak’ can cope with a number of cancellations but once again the passenger is inconvenienced by the failure of the railway to run the timetabled service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on February 17, 2018, 10:20:49
The 10:28 service from Reading to Bristol TM (the 10:00 from PAD) is shown on the departure boards as ‘reported full and standing’ with only 7 coaches.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 17, 2018, 10:31:34
The 10:28 service from Reading to Bristol TM (the 10:00 from PAD) is shown on the departure boards as ‘reported full and standing’ with only 7 coaches.
Not surprised. When I said Bristol-Paddington can cope in my above post, I later thought but it would mean the services that do run will be full and standing with passengers possibly being left behind. Two trains into one doesn’t always go. Feel for the staff on board and at stations who have to deal with stressed and angry passengers owing to failings of those above them, whoever that is GWR or Dft who is at fault for this sham of a franchise.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on February 17, 2018, 10:44:42
1A12 Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington left Swindon full and standing. I see only the front 5 are in use on this one.

Many of the cancelled IC services are those that call at Didcot, so there are extra stops on the other already full trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 17, 2018, 10:53:25
1A12 Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington left Swindon full and standing. I see only the front 5 are in use on this one.

Many of the cancelled IC services are those that call at Didcot, so there are extra stops on the other already full trains.

That's another aggravating situation in addition to the cancellations and 2 trains of people squeezing into one. due to no crew member to staff the rear 5 carriages


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 17, 2018, 10:59:25
There can be no defence for GWR having to cancel so many IC services today particularly to/from South Wales where the service is just hourly coupled with those travelling from Swansea and Cardiff having to get a bus to Newport owing to engineering work.

Bristol-Paddington outside the morning and evening ‘weekend peak’ can cope with a number of cancellations but once again the passenger is inconvenienced by the failure of the railway to run the timetabled service.


Yes there is it is as a-driver says further up this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on February 17, 2018, 11:30:38
Regarding post #402, linked to above, I find the statement that I quote below,

 "The levels of staffing is specified by the DfT.  The level of staffing has been met.  The DfT/TFL paid for GWR to recruit and train a specified number of drivers.  This was also met."

To be very surprising indeed, as I was not aware that the DfT specified staffing levels. If the O/P is correct in this, then does that mean that GWR are in fact doing OK by DfT standards and that we should accept the present level of cancellations as being the "new normal" ?




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 17, 2018, 11:31:29
Yes there is it is as a-driver says further up this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525)
I suggest you go tell those whose journeys have been messed up this past half term and this weekend and long before under the stewardship of Firstgroup. People are tired of excuses, they just want to get what they pay good money for.

Delays and cancellations happen in any form of transportation but this is about a failure to provide an adequate resource in the form of providing enough staff to run the advertised service. This has been going on for years yet the fares go up every year along with promises that things will get better for you handing over even more money.

I respect your unwavering defence of GWR ellendune but there are some high up management in GWR who are paid a lot of money to preside over a service that lets passengers down time and time again. Where’s the accountability from these managers?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 17, 2018, 13:32:52
Yes there is it is as a-driver says further up this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525)
I suggest you go tell those whose journeys have been messed up this past half term and this weekend and long before under the stewardship of Firstgroup. People are tired of excuses, they just want to get what they pay good money for.

Delays and cancellations happen in any form of transportation but this is about a failure to provide an adequate resource in the form of providing enough staff to run the advertised service. This has been going on for years yet the fares go up every year along with promises that things will get better for you handing over even more money.

I respect your unwavering defence of GWR ellendune but there are some high up management in GWR who are paid a lot of money to preside over a service that lets passengers down time and time again. Where’s the accountability from these managers?

IMO GWR are being paid to take the flak for the failure of DfT and NR.  What is worse they can do absolutely nothing about it!  So who's stewardship is it?

You can criticise them for not providing enough information and for their appalling response times to letters of complaint or any of those other things, but the one thing they can do nothing about at the moment is provide a more reliable train service until:

a) The new trains ordered by DfT work reliably.
b) they are given enough time with enough new infrastructure to retrain their existing drivers to work the new trains.

DfT knew this was going to be bad - that is why GWR were given a direct award. 

Of course GWR could launch a PR campaign to explain exactly what the problem is and why it will take time to solve, but that might be seen as a career limiting manoeuvre by those people at Great Minster House.  Though I suspect they can't be that choosy or they will run out of anyone willing to bid. 



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on February 17, 2018, 14:17:05
I find it curious that SWR, with four days of strike action taking place, can run a full service with fewer cancellations than GWR on a ‘normal’ day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on February 17, 2018, 14:25:40
"until the new trains ordered by DfT work reliably"

Do I surmise from the above quote that the new trains are NOT working reliably ? I thought that the general view was that they are splendid and that only a few naysayers and old dinosaurs like me dared to express doubts about reliability.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 17, 2018, 16:43:23
Did you express doubts about reliability prior to introduction?

I thought it was the subjective issues of seat comfort/alignment and catering that were your bête noire.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on February 17, 2018, 17:37:49
Yes, I did.
Can not find the post in order to quote it, but I said something like "Diesel engines and electric drives are mature technologies and should hopefully work reasonably reliably. The problems IMHO are likely to be with computers and software. Unlike mechanical components, software is NEVER a mature technology, "if it works it must be obsolete"
The new DMUs are likely to contain a large number of computer systems, all of which have to work together, first time every time"

In other posts I also expressed doubts as to electrification being completed on time, and about the reliability of the electrification equipment. I specifically forecast that a single pigeon could cause widespread disruption.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 17, 2018, 19:19:34
Hitachi as proven software on the Cl. 395’s but the DfT didn’t want that. They wanted a different unproven system, and guess what?!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: mjones on February 17, 2018, 19:32:49
There can be no defence for GWR having to cancel so many IC services today particularly to/from South Wales where the service is just hourly coupled with those travelling from Swansea and Cardiff having to get a bus to Newport owing to engineering work.

..


Especially when those buses fail to meet the timetabled connecting service, and the following one is cancelled, as I've just experienced.

The bus operation seemed quite disorganised, with slow loading at Cardiff, and then being dropped off on a busy road outside Newport station with no proper signposting, so a lot of passengers were confused about which direction to head in, and nowhere safe to cross the road.
..


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on February 17, 2018, 19:50:19
Hitachi as proven software on the Cl. 395’s but the DfT didn’t want that. They wanted a different unproven system, and guess what?!

That proves it!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on February 17, 2018, 20:11:16
Hitachi as proven software on the Cl. 395’s but the DfT didn’t want that. They wanted a different unproven system, and guess what?!

It's a very different train, so it needs quite different software. A bit like the driver for a bit of PC hardware, and not one where there's a standard interface/protocol.

Within that, there should be a lot of reuse of software components, especially of the same team were involved. I would expect (and hope) that the software is now the responsibility of the UK-based team, in which case it would have been transferred at some stage. That can be tricky...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 17, 2018, 21:54:53
Yes there is it is as a-driver says further up this thread http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.msg231525#msg231525)
I suggest you go tell those whose journeys have been messed up this past half term and this weekend and long before under the stewardship of Firstgroup. People are tired of excuses, they just want to get what they pay good money for.

Delays and cancellations happen in any form of transportation but this is about a failure to provide an adequate resource in the form of providing enough staff to run the advertised service. This has been going on for years yet the fares go up every year along with promises that things will get better for you handing over even more money.

I respect your unwavering defence of GWR ellendune but there are some high up management in GWR who are paid a lot of money to preside over a service that lets passengers down time and time again. Where’s the accountability from these managers?

IMO GWR are being paid to take the flak for the failure of DfT and NR.  What is worse they can do absolutely nothing about it!  So who's stewardship is it?

You can criticise them for not providing enough information and for their appalling response times to letters of complaint or any of those other things, but the one thing they can do nothing about at the moment is provide a more reliable train service until:

a) The new trains ordered by DfT work reliably.
b) they are given enough time with enough new infrastructure to retrain their existing drivers to work the new trains.

DfT knew this was going to be bad - that is why GWR were given a direct award. 

Of course GWR could launch a PR campaign to explain exactly what the problem is and why it will take time to solve, but that might be seen as a career limiting manoeuvre by those people at Great Minster House.  Though I suspect they can't be that choosy or they will run out of anyone willing to bid. 





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 17, 2018, 22:00:29
You clearly weren't a passenger on Virgin WC when they were being criticised during the rebuilding of the WCML  Or perhaps you were putting forward the same blame the TOC for everything view. This is just history repeating itself. 

GWR are far from perfect in many ways but blaming them for things outside their control is not going to help anyone.  If you think any other operator (private or - dare I say it - public) would be able to run any better service in these circumstances then you are mistaken.

This continued criticism further demoralises staff so that they are less likely to turn out when they do not need to and strengthening the power of the most militant in the unions. II makes an interesting point about the intervention of the Unions to stop some incentives to work additional hours. But GWR are also trying to negotiate with the same unions on use of the new stock.  et that wrong and you could be having to find other ways to travel like they did in Southern. 

With the benefit of hindsight GWR should have refused a franchise extension and left DfT to take it on themselves.  The train service would be no better but DfT would have nowhere to hide.  Our railways are run by real people not robots. 

If you have ever been in a position where you were being blamed for not being able do something that is totally outside your control then you should understand the effect of your criticism. 



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eXPassenger on February 17, 2018, 22:51:58
You clearly weren't a passenger on Virgin WC when they were being criticised during the rebuilding of the WCML  Or perhaps you were putting forward the same blame the TOC for everything view. This is just history repeating itself. 

GWR are far from perfect in many ways but blaming them for things outside their control is not going to help anyone.  If you think any other operator (private or - dare I say it - public) would be able to run any better service in these circumstances then you are mistaken.

This continued criticism further demoralises staff so that they are less likely to turn out when they do not need to and strengthening the power of the most militant in the unions. II makes an interesting point about the intervention of the Unions to stop some incentives to work additional hours. But GWR are also trying to negotiate with the same unions on use of the new stock.  et that wrong and you could be having to find other ways to travel like they did in Southern. 

With the benefit of hindsight GWR should have refused a franchise extension and left DfT to take it on themselves.  The train service would be no better but DfT would have nowhere to hide.  Our railways are run by real people not robots. 

If you have ever been in a position where you were being blamed for not being able do something that is totally outside your control then you should understand the effect of your criticism. 



Sorry.  I understand where you are coming from but if you are aware that things will go pear shaped you should do the following in advance:

- Beef up your customer service team and make them highly responsive
- Do not launch a major advertising campaign when you know you will have problems delivering the expectations you have raised
- Set up contingency plans.  In this case planned contracted road transport that can quickly slot into place.
- Agree with your sponsor that you will explain the problems, apologise for them and make OTT payments in compensation

If you have done this then you can genuinely claim that you foresaw the problem and planned to mitigate the issues.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on February 17, 2018, 23:01:31
eXPassenger, well said.

It beggars belief that some are trying to defend the indefensible.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on February 18, 2018, 06:14:49
06:15 and not one cancellation, short working or short formation on journeycheck, perhaps there's a shortage of trained IT staff today, give it an hour or two.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 18, 2018, 07:38:21
If you have ever been in a position where you were being blamed for not being able do something that is totally outside your control then you should understand the effect of your criticism. 

Well said ... and (yes) that's the position that so many of the GWR team find themselves in - at whatever level we can (or cannot) pin blame for the failure to deliver a service to specified reliability on the GWR corporate / what level of realistic choice they have.

January in my neck of the woods was a breath of fresh air in terms of service improvement.  The last fortnight, alas, the wheel seems to have fallen off the wagon again with faulty and unfit rolling stock, lack of train crew and infrastructure problems all contributing to on-the-day cancellations on a virtually daily basis, with a sprinkling of planned engineering changes at weekend to put off the timid new customer even more.   But only rarely can I blame the people on the team I come across in any way; typically the opposite, with them going out of their way to provide help as best they can to the customers caught up in this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 18, 2018, 07:58:48
06:15 and not one cancellation, short working or short formation on journeycheck, perhaps there's a shortage of trained IT staff today, give it an hour or two.
Sadly not, 3 have appeared at the time of writing and it’s on the one route that cannot afford cancellations due to engineering work already making the journey between South Wales and London more of a challenge. Imagine getting on a train at Swansea, getting off at Cardiff onto a bus to arrive at Newport to find your connection to London cancelled. It happened yesterday and is happening again today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on February 18, 2018, 08:35:11
Sorry.  I understand where you are coming from but if you are aware that things will go pear shaped you should do the following in advance:

- Beef up your customer service team and make them highly responsive
- Do not launch a major advertising campaign when you know you will have problems delivering the expectations you have raised
- Set up contingency plans.  In this case planned contracted road transport that can quickly slot into place.
- Agree with your sponsor that you will explain the problems, apologise for them and make OTT payments in compensation

If you have done this then you can genuinely claim that you foresaw the problem and planned to mitigate the issues.


Now that I can agree with.  All that is within GWR's control corporately.  However remember it is seldom within the control of the staff we meet.   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 18, 2018, 08:57:34
Sorry.  I understand where you are coming from but if you are aware that things will go pear shaped you should do the following in advance:

- Beef up your customer service team and make them highly responsive
- Do not launch a major advertising campaign when you know you will have problems delivering the expectations you have raised
- Set up contingency plans.  In this case planned contracted road transport that can quickly slot into place.
- Agree with your sponsor that you will explain the problems, apologise for them and make OTT payments in compensation

If you have done this then you can genuinely claim that you foresaw the problem and planned to mitigate the issues.


Now that I can agree with.  All that is within GWR's control corporately.  However remember it is seldom within the control of the staff we meet.   

I would very much doubt that anyone holds Bob in the ticket office responsible for the systemic problems alluded to above which the Senior Management of GWR have brought upon themselves, and their frontline staff who have to deal with the consequences.

The four bullet points which exPassenger provides are excellent examples of the shortcomings and oversights which have brought us to where we are now, and had these been considered it's entirely possible things would be calmer - particularly when it comes to a Business promising things which it knows it cannot deliver, with shiny, expensive and facile advertising campaigns

The time is now ripe for Hopwood to emerge from the bunker stand up and publicly give details of the recovery plan with lessons learned, realistic outcomes and datelines - if it means an emergency timetable for a short time, well that would be better than the utter chaos we saw yesterday, and see in the Cotswolds on a daily basis.

It's called Leadership and accountability, and many of us in service industries who have been in the position which ellendune rhetorically described have learned that the latter is the one thing that cannot be delegated if you wish to be considered worthy of the former - it's perhaps time for Hopwood to demonstrate to his customers that he understands that principle.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 18, 2018, 12:09:52
"until the new trains ordered by DfT work reliably"

Do I surmise from the above quote that the new trains are NOT working reliably ? I thought that the general view was that they are splendid and that only a few naysayers and old dinosaurs like me dared to express doubts about reliability.

Yes, I did.
Can not find the post in order to quote it, but I said something like "Diesel engines and electric drives are mature technologies and should hopefully work reasonably reliably. The problems IMHO are likely to be with computers and software. Unlike mechanical components, software is NEVER a mature technology, "if it works it must be obsolete"
The new DMUs are likely to contain a large number of computer systems, all of which have to work together, first time every time"

In other posts I also expressed doubts as to electrification being completed on time, and about the reliability of the electrification equipment. I specifically forecast that a single pigeon could cause widespread disruption.

A couple of points are worth mentioning I think.

Overall, the reliability of the new electrification equipment has been pretty good in my opinion.  I can't recall any major 'wires down' incidents that would no doubt have crippled the service a couple of times by now if we had the cheap system as installed on the ECML.  The pigeon incident occurred at West Ealing, so that's on the part of the route that has been electrified for 20 years and could have happened at any time since then.  IIUI it was more to do with the poor condition of masonry on the underside of the bridge rather than anything else, and the increased clearances between wires and bridge that the newly electrified sections have should make it much less likely to happen there.  Headspan wires are largely being removed where they were installed originally between Airport Junction and Paddington, however the low clearances under bridges will not be altered (the cost would be huge), so I guess there remains a risk on the old sections of electrification.

Regarding the new train reliability, I think by and large they are settling in quite well, if by no means perfectly.  There have been too many ADD incidents, particularly with the 387s, but otherwise many of the delays can be attributed to staff familiarisation as much as anything else.  Drivers who had driven Turbos or HSTs for decades knew how to remedy most faults quickly as they had experienced them many times before, but on the new trains there are new/different faults with new/different remedies so fault finding and resolution understandably takes longer.

Launch day embarrassment aside I can only think of one major incident involving an IET, which was the one at Hayes & Harlington on 21st December (which was indeed a big one!).  Sure there's been plenty of more minor delays and cancellations, but I think it's right to point out that there's been two high-profile HST failures more recently - the one outside Paddington on Feb 8th as well as the massive disruption caused last Friday when the HST sat down near Westbury. 

The new trains are likely to get more reliable over time, the old trains are likely to get less reliable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 23, 2018, 17:04:12
After the chaos on services to/from Wales last weekend due to staff shortages, I'd hope that GWR have sorted themselves out for this weekend, especially with a 6 Nations match at Cardiff tomorrow with all the extra traffic that entails?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 23, 2018, 17:07:17
After the chaos on services to/from Wales last weekend due to staff shortages, I'd hope that GWR have sorted themselves out for this weekend, especially with a 6 Nations match at Cardiff tomorrow with all the extra traffic that entails?

Wales 6 Nations match tomorrow is in Dublin


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 23, 2018, 17:31:56
After the chaos on services to/from Wales last weekend due to staff shortages, I'd hope that GWR have sorted themselves out for this weekend, especially with a 6 Nations match at Cardiff tomorrow with all the extra traffic that entails?

Wales 6 Nations match tomorrow is in Dublin

You're right! Doh! I'll get my coat!🙈🙊


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 23, 2018, 18:40:34
Let’s hope it’s a better weekend for all those travelling GWR than it was last weekend.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 24, 2018, 06:14:08
Another day of service excellence from Rail Business of the Year during the Saturday ‘evening peak’.

So far we have...

Both the 17.00 and 17.30 London-Bristol/Weston services cancelled. So it’s either the 16.30 or 18.00 which will be cosy so no worries about being cold with plenty of close up shared bodily warmth. All part of the service from our Rail Business of the Year.

Worse if you are heading TO London from Bristol/Bath/Chippenham this evening as both return journeys are also cancelled so nothing between 18.30 and 21.47 from Bristol TM.

To top it off on the London-Bristol line, the last direct train of the day for Chippenham/Bath/Bristol TM from London, the 21.32 is also cancelled so miss the 20.30 you are gonna be in for a late evening involving a rail replacement bus.

South Wales passengers aren’t going to get away with it entirely either with the 16.45 Padd-Swansea train terminating at Bristol Parkway. But a huge improvement on last Saturday.

Two cancellations so far on North Cotswold line:
5.18 Padd-Great Malvern. Okay unfortunate but means the 8.43 return to London is canned.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 24, 2018, 07:36:57
The next Cotswold Line train after that one also cancelled from Oxford.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 24, 2018, 15:19:38
Pleased to report that the 17.00 Pad-Bristol, 20.09 WSM-Pad and 21.32 Pad-Bristol have all been removed from the cancellations list so can assume crew were found and that they are now running which will be good for those travelling this evening on this line.

Edit to say 20.09 WSM starts at Bristol TM and will also convey passengers on the diverted 18.29 Swansea-Pad which terminates at Bristol TM due to crew issues.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on February 24, 2018, 18:58:54
This morning Reading - Paddington service, calling at Slough, depart Reading 10:57 (from Gt Malvern) cancelled due to crew shortage


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 24, 2018, 19:27:29
Already posted three posts back


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 25, 2018, 07:00:21
It’s looking like bad news again if you are travelling from/to South Wales with cancellations of Newport-Paddington services from this afternoon onwards coupled with engineering work between Cardiff and Newport.

Let’s hope GWR can find some drivers and get services reinstated later.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2018, 09:34:15
It’s looking like bad news again if you are travelling from/to South Wales with cancellations of Newport-Paddington services from this afternoon onwards coupled with engineering work between Cardiff and Newport.

Let’s hope GWR can find some drivers and get services reinstated later.

As this now seems to be a weekly event on Sundays, surely there is a case for GWR planning/sourcing some bus replacement, Newport to Cardiff at least as a contingency/mitigation rather than just leaving people stranded for hours? I can't see there being any availability problems on Sundays?

(............stands back and takes cover from the "ooooooooooooos gunna pay for it?" brigade!)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 25, 2018, 19:15:41
Let’s hope GWR can find some drivers and get services reinstated later.
Well they didn’t and some Weston/Bristol-Pad and Pad-Bristol/Weston were added to the cancellations list so another poor weekend for IC services. Can’t blame the school holidays for this weekend’s canned services.

West local services are doing well though I’m pleased to report  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Jason on February 27, 2018, 16:32:57
If my SMS alerts are correct then the following services that cover the Paddington to Reading portion of my journey are all canned due to lack of crew:
18:12
18:29
18:42
18:52
18:59


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on February 27, 2018, 18:01:12
Mine too - guess that's going to make the 18.19 cosy if you're going to Twyford or Maidenhead.

Annoyingly (and as per usual) nothing on the website when I left work though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on February 27, 2018, 19:58:49
Looking at the 20 cancellations listed on Journey Check, I wonder if there were drivers available to cover all the services affected by the signalling problems, or whether that was used to hide bad news?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on February 27, 2018, 22:11:20
When people tweet GWR re cancellations due to lack of traincrew, the copy and paste reply says "staff are rostered".
If questioned further, the reply then is that they are not sure of the actual specifics.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 09, 2018, 17:13:13
Tonight's selection (so far) - all cancelled due to shortage of drivers - always seems to be worse on a Friday, wonder why?


15:32 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 17:03
16:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 19:26
16:32 Reading to London Paddington due 17:33
16:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 17:06
17:12 London Paddington to Reading due 18:08
17:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 17:40
17:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 18:07
18:01 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 19:31
18:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 18:40
18:18 Reading to London Paddington due 19:15
18:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 19:06
19:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 19:40
19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:50
19:42 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 22:29
19:42 London Paddington to Reading due 20:38
20:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 20:36
20:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 21:10
21:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 21:36
21:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 22:10
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:29




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on March 09, 2018, 19:16:23
Tonight's selection (so far) - all cancelled due to shortage of drivers - always seems to be worse on a Friday, wonder why?

I don't know. Why?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 09, 2018, 22:37:15
Tonight's selection (so far) - all cancelled due to shortage of drivers - always seems to be worse on a Friday, wonder why?


15:32 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 17:03
16:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 19:26
16:32 Reading to London Paddington due 17:33
16:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 17:06
17:12 London Paddington to Reading due 18:08
17:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 17:40
17:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 18:07
18:01 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 19:31
18:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 18:40
18:18 Reading to London Paddington due 19:15
18:45 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 19:06
19:18 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 19:40
19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:50
19:42 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 22:29
19:42 London Paddington to Reading due 20:38
20:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 20:36
20:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 21:10
21:15 London Paddington to Hayes & Harlington due 21:36
21:48 Hayes & Harlington to London Paddington due 22:10
22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:29




..and some more, of the final Friday night LTV services cancelled, same reason.....how are people supposed to get home? (.....a question the GWR twitter service is struggling to answer)

23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:13
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:56
23:42 London Paddington to Reading due 00:22


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on March 10, 2018, 05:40:22


..and some more, of the final Friday night LTV services cancelled, same reason.....how are people supposed to get home? (.....a question the GWR twitter service is struggling to answer)

23:12 London Paddington to Reading due 00:13
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:56
23:42 London Paddington to Reading due 00:22
[/quote]
It was always understood in Kernowland that whatever else was cancelled, the last bus services of the day HAD to run, no matter what. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 10, 2018, 07:31:03
I see the last train from London to Chippenham, Bath and Bristol TM the 21.32 is cancelled again. They really should make a priority of being able to provide train crew for this train being the last one of the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on March 10, 2018, 10:09:43
One of GWR cut and paste Twitter replies.

We do have staff on standby but as train services start in a number of locations across the network we can't always get them to where they are needed in time.

Another one says:

Staff are rostered in but I don't know the actual specifics


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 10, 2018, 10:22:52
One of GWR cut and paste Twitter replies.

We do have staff on standby but as train services start in a number of locations across the network we can't always get them to where they are needed in time.

Another one says:

Staff are rostered in but I don't know the actual specifics

It's a great shame that no senior manager within GWR has the courage or integrity to come out and publicly explain the reason for this ongoing farce, preferring instead to leave the grunts on the frontline (digital or otherwise) to take the stick and trot out standard non answers (which no doubt they have been briefed to offer), it is the very nadir of Leadership and the culture clearly comes from the very top down.

Hardly what one expects from the "Rail Operator of the Year"  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 10, 2018, 11:08:39
One of GWR cut and paste Twitter replies.

We do have staff on standby but as train services start in a number of locations across the network we can't always get them to where they are needed in time.

Another one says:

Staff are rostered in but I don't know the actual specifics
Other times they are just plain honest with no spin:

Hello there. The cancellation is because of a shortage of train crew. I am sorry for the disruption to your journey.

TG apologies for being pedantic but GWR were awarded “Rail Business of the Year” crazy I know. The rail industry must have pretty low standards handing an award like that for the level of service provided at present.

“Rail Operator of the Year” was awarded to Chiltern, somewhat more deserved IMHO.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2018, 08:37:05
................today's collection (so far) - all cancelled - to pick just one, cancelling the 1722 from Cardiff back to London is particularly moronic as it would be one of the first to be available for those leaving the Millennium stadium after today's Wales v Italy match.


08:00 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 10:54
08:27 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 10:57
09:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 12:48
09:54 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 10:54
11:10 Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:52
11:14 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 14:07
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 12:23
12:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:45
12:37 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:57
14:42 London Paddington to Hereford due 17:56
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:01
16:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:46
16:51 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:12
17:05 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:58
17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00
17:28 Cardiff Central to Swansea due 18:24
17:30 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:38
18:30 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:13
19:05 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:57
19:37 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:55
19:42 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 22:26
19:45 Cardiff Central to Swansea due 20:41
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:03 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 22:28
20:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:40
22:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:06
22:33 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:17
22:49 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:06
23:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 01:03


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on March 11, 2018, 09:07:29
Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Swansea:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Due to a train crew shortage today, some Great Western Railway High Speed Services between London Paddington-Penzance/Bristol/Swansea/Cheltenham/Worcester/Hereford are subject to alteration or cancellation.

A majority of the additional trains that were due to operate today in conjunction with the rugby match at Cardiff are cancelled today along with many other alterations. Individual train alterations can be found on journey check, https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/ .

Please allow more time for your journey.

If you have been delayed you may be entitled to compensation, please visit https://www.gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/delay-compensation for more details.

Last Updated:11/03/2018 08:45


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 09:09:48
Another day of service excellence from Rail Business of the Year  ::)

Now up to 31 services cancelled. Last weekend GWR could hide behind the poor weather cancelling services...not today.

It’s abundantly clear train crew don’t want to work on Sundays as is their right and they are excercising that right. Shows what they think about the company they work for.

If you are travelling to/from South Wales, Cheltenham and the Cotswolds it’s another day of cancellations and overcrowded trains.

As for travelling out of London mid to late evening the IC service is decimated. Unacceptable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on March 11, 2018, 09:20:18
No doubt the Hopwood helicopter and/or chauffeur driven limousine are available to whisk him to wherever he wants ( wants, not needs) to go, in some comfort and style ! I don't think even ChrisB has a leg to stand on, with this one !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2018, 09:25:56
No doubt the Hopwood helicopter and/or chauffeur driven limousine are available to whisk him to wherever he wants ( wants, not needs) to go, in some comfort and style ! I don't think even ChrisB has a leg to stand on, with this one !

Hey of course, that champagne won't drink itself!!!

..................but seriously, what a bloody disgrace. The time is long overdue for Hopwood to stand up and publicly account for his Company's appalling performance.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 09:30:50
Well someone needs to stand up and take responsibility for this shambles of a franchise but that would mean more than one person and going back years and years. What we see on the GW mainline today has been years in the making.

I have no problem with people or organisations being recognised for good service but it was way premature to be awarding GWR such an award until things have greatly improved. Cancelling 31 trains is not an improvement.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 11, 2018, 09:41:08
Todays 08:27 Paddington - Cardiff cancellation is 1Z30, a planned Rugby special
Todays 17:22 Cardiff - Paddington cancellation is 1Z50, return of above.
Todays 17:28 Cardiff - Bristol Temple Meads cancellation is 1Z60 return of 1Z20 rugby special NOT reported as cancelled YET.

With the above and one other cancellation on PAD to CDF route the sardines are going to be really cosy on their sports supporting journeys today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on March 11, 2018, 09:51:20
Discussions have been ongoing between GWR/the DfT and the unions for sometime to get Sunday’s included in the working week for both drivers and guards/train managers. I think train managers were or are on and enhanced rate as an incentive to work Sunday’s. Once the train is completed there will be more than enough drivers (I don’t know about other grades) to bring Sunday’s within the working week so it will happen.

I, for one, don’t work Sunday’s and never have done. It had nothing to do with what I thought about GWR but it was the one day I could guarantee to have with my family. My wife works Mon to Fri. I signed a contract of employment which stipulated this and no financial incentive would have changed my mind. This are T&C’s bought over the days of BR.

If another company took over the franchise our terms and conditions would not change. You would still be in a situation where Sunday’s are not in the working week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2018, 10:27:13
Discussions have been ongoing between GWR/the DfT and the unions for sometime to get Sunday’s included in the working week for both drivers and guards/train managers. I think train managers were or are on and enhanced rate as an incentive to work Sunday’s. Once the train is completed there will be more than enough drivers (I don’t know about other grades) to bring Sunday’s within the working week so it will happen.

I, for one, don’t work Sunday’s and never have done. It had nothing to do with what I thought about GWR but it was the one day I could guarantee to have with my family. My wife works Mon to Fri. I signed a contract of employment which stipulated this and no financial incentive would have changed my mind. This are T&C’s bought over the days of BR.

If another company took over the franchise our terms and conditions would not change. You would still be in a situation where Sunday’s are not in the working week.

You're currently fortunate enough to enjoy those terms and conditions and no-one can blame you for taking advantage of them, it's not the fault of individual employees however the world has moved on in the decades since BR and most people get used to variations in their working practices (even the Civil Service!).

It's incumbent upon (primarily) your senior managers to work with the Unions in order that the 7 day service to which the railway is committed can be fulfilled - that will probably mean both sides having to move towards each other and give a little, as generally happens in the real world when negotiations take place. The days of folding arms, jutting out chins and taking am immovable position are thankfully virtually over.

Endless talking seems to be producing little in terms of results, and the situation is getting worse, not better. Today really is the icing on the cake.

If I was an employee, or more especially a manager of an organisation that was repeatedly failing on all levels to deliver, I'd be thoroughly ashamed.............in fact in pretty much every sector I've worked in, if I was towards the top of the tree, I'd probably be looking for another job if performance was this poor.

GWR is not currently serving the public in anything approaching an acceptable level in this context.As others have indicated, pictures of Hopwood glugging champagne at mutual backslapping sessions does not help the mood........remember a chap who fiddled whilst Rome burned?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on March 11, 2018, 11:46:51
It's a great shame that no senior manager within GWR has the courage or integrity to come out and publicly explain the reason for this ongoing farce, preferring instead to leave the grunts on the frontline (digital or otherwise) to take the stick and trot out standard non answers (which no doubt they have been briefed to offer), it is the very nadir of Leadership and the culture clearly comes from the very top down.

The reason given by Jane Jones (GWR Head of Public Affairs) at the public meeting in Charlbury a few weeks ago was that the IET driver shortage is Network Rail's fault. Because the electrification was running late, drivers weren't able to be trained on bimode IETs due to the lack of a "long enough" electrified section to learn on. The Network Rail person (sorry, forgot his name) sitting at the same table didn't contradict this.

I have to admit I'm not entirely convinced this is a good reason. Sure, electrification was late. So run the IETs on diesel only for a while and refuel them more often: there should be plenty of fuel in the tank for a Worcester-Paddington out and back.

And electrification running late shouldn't have been a shock to GWR - there was plenty of time to rejig diagrams so that a couple more Turbos stayed in the Thames Valley to run always-cancelled services like the 16.22. It does smack a bit of waking up on 1st January with a hangover and saying "ngggh, I can't remember what I did last night - did I really send all the 180s up north?".


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: rogerw on March 11, 2018, 11:54:26
I am sure that GWR would have liked to keep more turbos in the Thames valley.  However they were contractually required to release 150s to Northern and the turbos were required to replace them.  In theory there should have been enough IETs to cover the Cotswold turns but this has not proved to be the case


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on March 11, 2018, 11:58:50
I think everyone accepts the world has moved on, everyone accepts Sunday's will eventually be in the working week and trains will operate on Boxing Day.  When you say both sides need to move towards each other and give a little from a staff point of view, you're either committed to working Sunday's or not.  There isn't much room for us to move. It's going to take a large basic pay rise or a reduction in the working week to tempt enough staff to accept.  They've had enhanced rates of pay on Sunday to tempt drivers in to work and even that doesn't work, proof that throwing money at a problem doesn't always fix it.

The current poor performance can easily be justified, and the DfT knows the reasons why and this is shown in the fact the DfT keep extending First's contract to operate the franchise without competition.  The DfT know full well they won't be able to attract the money through the franchise bids until the infrastructure work has been completed and the new trains have been fully introduced.  If the DfT were unhappy with the number of cancellations and delays and thought that GWR were fully responsible they would have intervened by now.  
 
GWR have kept there end of the contract, for example, in the West Country the driver depots in those regions have had, for some time now, the driver numbers in place to commence training on the new IET's.  The first one isn't suppose to run in passenger service until June/July.  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 11, 2018, 12:01:24
.... and to add to the woes of the rugby fans, the 08:30 Paddington - Swansea was also a LATE cancellation due to a problem under investigation. Probably fans booked on the cancelled 08:27 Paddington - Cardiff special trying to board the 08:30 instead.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on March 11, 2018, 12:03:53
I have to admit I'm not entirely convinced this is a good reason. Sure, electrification was late. So run the IETs on diesel only for a while and refuel them more often: there should be plenty of fuel in the tank for a Worcester-Paddington out and back.

The delay in electrification lead to delays in manufacturing, this is turn delayed Hitachi commencing testing the IET's and subsequently handing over units to GWR to commence training.  Don't forget, the 9-car IET's have had to be modified from a fully electric unit to a bi-mode.  
Rumor had it, that Hitachi stated the trains weren't ready for passenger traffic but GWR had been left with no choice but to use them.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 11, 2018, 13:17:28
Whilst passenger journey numbers have rocketed over the past 20 years - since privatisation - the division of responsibility in that current system makes for an environment where buck passing thrives.

All the passenger wants is a train (s)he can rely on to run more or less to time, at a time (s)he wants,  with enough capacity for comfort (which means seated for medium and longer time journeys), safe and at a sensible price.

When something's not right, the passenger looks at a failure of the rail industry - and whether that's the train operator, the infrastructure provider, the specifier / controller of services, the previous or current government, the rail unions, the train manufacturers / servicer or the RoSCos is of minimal consequence.   At least we all knew it was "British Railways" to point the finger at in the [good/bad] old days.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 11, 2018, 13:53:53
.... and another woe to rugby fans, a points failure between Swansea and Cardiff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2018, 16:39:27
Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 16:55:25
Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.
Need to leave the ground NOW to have any chance of catching it mind.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 11, 2018, 17:07:38
You're currently fortunate enough to enjoy those terms and conditions and no-one can blame you for taking advantage of them, it's not the fault of individual employees however the world has moved on in the decades since BR and most people get used to variations in their working practices (even the Civil Service!).

Nearly! As a former Civil Servant of many years' standing (plus quite a few sitting down) I was never required to work weekends or evenings. Over the years, I took on a number of job roles that could not be done during office hours alone, and worked many weekends and other unsocial hours. I was paid a decent premium, the eventual withdrawal of which fortunately coincided with me deciding that I had enough money and preferred free time instead.
As the world moved towards a 24/7 model, so did my former department. New staff for contact centres were recruited with terms of employment that included variable shift patterns including some weekends. They didn't mind, as it was exactly what they had applied for.

Then, a couple of years back, that same department launched a campaign to get everyone on the same terms, including those who like me weren't employed as the office equivalent of battery chickens. After much talking to the unions, a deal was hammered out, which made adoption of the new contract purely voluntary, but with a bigger pay rise that year for all who agreed to it. I signed up, and my new terms and conditions came into force on the 1st of the following month.

The point is that even the Civil Service saw the benefit of persuasion as opposed to threats and coercion. New railway staff are needed, and at first sight it would seem to make sense to hire them on terms that are more favourable to the company, and maybe offer inducements to existing employees to switch. Retirements and resignations will soon whittle down the numbers on "legacy" contracts. The problem, though, is that whereas my old department will continue in some form indefinitely,  First might find themselves handing their staff over to another company before any negotiations have really got under way. That process would be greatly complicated by having staff employed on a variety of different terms. To make matters even more tricky, many of them have skills of a very portable kind, in considerable demand by other companies. My thinking is that First can't completely solve the problem alone, but that no-one else is going to help them do it.

How did I get on with my new conditions? Having put it off until after the pay rise, I retired 10 days later. I can see similar being a danger for GWR too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 17:25:31
Could be unpleasant at Bristol TM and Bath Spa over the next hour with both 1705 and the 1730 (ex Plymouth) to Paddington both canned. I can imagine all those turfed off the Plymouth train werent too pleased. Neither will everyone be when all those from the 1705 and 1730 all try and get on the 1805 from Paignton to London.

Spare a thought for all those GWR staff who ARE working today having to deal with the fallout from all this from the platform staff to the Train Managers on the services that are running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 11, 2018, 17:29:38
Could be unpleasant at Bristol TM and Bath Spa over the next hour with both 1705 and the 1730 (ex Plymouth) to Paddington both canned. I can imagine all those turfed off the Plymouth train werent too pleased. Neither will everyone be when all those from the 1705 and 1730 all try and get on the 1805 from Paignton to London.

Spare a thought for all those GWR staff who ARE working today having to deal with the fallout from all this from the platform staff to the Train Managers on the services that are running.

..............and bear in mind that GWR's Twitter feed is advising people whose direct London trains from Cardiff have been cancelled to go to Bristol TM and change there......could get a bit messy.

..........and this won't help either!

Delays to services between London Paddington and Slough

Due to a fault with the signalling system between London Paddington and Slough the line towards Slough is disrupted.
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed by up to 30 minutes. Disruption is expected until 20:00 11/03.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 17:41:04
Oh no, with reports coming in of services that are running being absolutely rammed, the last thing you need is a signal fault between Slough and London!

I really feel for those travelling on GWR right now.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 17:46:05
Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00


17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.
Don’t wish to burst your positive bubble TG, but to run this service they cancelled the service before the 1551 Swansea to London train at Cardiff. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on March 11, 2018, 18:36:22
And from the front page of the GWR website...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 11, 2018, 19:02:06
Nonsensical wording but some minor good news.............
17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00
17:22 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:00 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Will be formed of 10 coaches.
Don’t wish to burst your positive bubble TG, but to run this service they cancelled the service before the 1551 Swansea to London train at Cardiff. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

On RTT 1L82 canned at CDF due to an unknown reason (TZ), stock held in Platform 1 and departed as 1Z50 at 1723 1/2 vs 1722, wonder if pax already on 1L82 were turfed off the set only to have to join the scrum to get back on the same set and probably not be able to sit in same seats even if seats were reserved and occupied from stations west of CDF.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 11, 2018, 19:10:23
You’d hope common sense prevailed and that they were allowed to stay on the train.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Jason on March 16, 2018, 16:45:11
Due to a shortage of train drivers between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington fewer trains are able to run.
Impact: Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice:
London Underground are conveying passengers between London Paddington and Hayes & Harlington in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on March 16, 2018, 17:08:43
I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on March 16, 2018, 18:00:26
I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?

Bus to Uxbridge, Ealing or Heathrow. Then take your pick of Piccadilly, Metropolitan, Central or District lines.

This is starting to make Southern/GTR look professional


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 16, 2018, 18:36:22
I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?

Bus to Uxbridge, Ealing or Heathrow. Then take your pick of Piccadilly, Metropolitan, Central or District lines.

This is starting to make Southern/GTR look professional

Welcome to the forum, Nick.  Where there's a pattern that takes in Southern, Northern and Western, perhaps the problem lies not (entirely ?) with them but in the system or at some common point?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 17, 2018, 00:00:47
There have been a number of comments on this and other threads about what the franchise agreement commits GWR to by way of staffing. As fas as I can see, there is nothing that names numbers at all, even by implication. There's a lot of "reasonable endeavours" and "adequate provision", and at least one use of the words "staffing level" but really about gateline opening hours. There is less than I would expect about transfer of staff into and out of the franchise - but then GWR were their own predecessors.

There is a section (Schedule 1.2, page 110) about "operating obligations". It goes on a bit - as you'd expect. Here are a couple of relevant slabs of it:

Quote
Operating Obligations

1. Daily Operating Obligations

1.1 The Franchisee agrees to use all reasonable endeavours to operate on each day of the Franchise Term each of its Passenger Services as are set out in the Plan of the Day for that day with at least the Passenger Carrying Capacity specified in the Train Plan for that Passenger Service. The Franchisee shall notify the Secretary of State as soon as reasonably practicable if it has on any day of the Franchise Term failed to operate to a material extent each of its Passenger Services as are set out in the Plan of the Day for that day and with at least the Passenger Carrying Capacity specified in the Train Plan for that Passenger Service.
...
7. Obligation to use all reasonable endeavours

7.1 Any obligation in this Schedule 1.2 on the part of the Franchisee to use all reasonable endeavours to operate railway passenger services shall include an obligation to:
(a) ensure (so far as it is able to do so) the provision of the Passenger Services as set out in the Plan of the Day in accordance with the Train Plan in ordinary operating conditions;
(b) take reasonable measures to avoid and/or reduce the impact of any disruption to the Franchise Services having regard to all the circumstances, including the reasonably foreseeable risks arising from the matters referred to in paragraph 7.2; and
(c) actively manage the performance by Network Rail of its contractual relationship with the Franchisee (and provide appropriate management resources for this purpose) so as to secure the best performance reasonably obtainable from Network Rail by these means (including taking the steps referred to in paragraph 7.4), having regard to all the circumstances.

7.2 The matters to which the Franchisee is to have regard pursuant to paragraph 7.1(b) shall include:
(a) variations in weather and operating conditions (including Network Rail's infrastructure not being available for any reason), which may in either case include seasonal variations;
(b) default by, or restrictions imposed by, suppliers to the Franchisee;
(c) shortages of appropriately skilled or qualified Franchise Employees;
(d) disputes with Franchise Employees;
(e) the availability of the Train Fleet, having regard to maintenance requirements and any Mandatory Modifications;
(f) establishing reasonable Turnaround Time allowances for enabling or disabling (as appropriate) any part of a train, the rostering of any train crew and the servicing or cleaning of any rolling stock vehicles; and
(g) failures of rolling stock vehicles in service and contingency arrangements (including Hot Standbys and rescue traction).

7.3 For the purpose of taking measures in respect of any disruption to the Franchise Services in accordance with paragraph 7.1(b) and assessing the extent of any risk referred to in paragraph 7.1(b) and any such risk's reasonable foreseeability, regard shall be had both:
(a) to the historical levels of incidence of disruption in the operation of:
  (i) the Franchise Services;
  (ii) similar services both by the Franchisee and/or its predecessors; and
  (iii) other services of a type similar to the Franchise Services; and
(b) to potential changes in circumstances which may affect those levels.

7.4 The steps to which paragraph 7.1(c) refers include:
(a) co-operating with Network Rail in the development, agreement and implementation of:
  (i) a 5-year (rolling) Performance Strategy Plan; and
  (ii) recovery plans in response to failures to achieve the performance levels specified in any Performance Strategy Plan;
(b) co-operating with Network Rail in adopting the principles set out in any Service Recovery Plans agreed between Network Rail and the Franchisee from time to time;
(c) undertaking regular reviews of:
  (i) the most common and most detrimental causes of PPM attrition and delay to the Passenger Services; and
  (ii) the ten causes of delay to the Passenger Services with the longest duration (to the extent not already reviewed in accordance with paragraph 7.4(c)(i)), which have occurred during that defined review period (e.g. weekly / four weekly / quarterly) and which have been caused by the Franchisee, any other Train Operator, any other train operator licensed under the Act or Network Rail;
(d) undertaking with Network Rail a review of the time taken to recover the Passenger Services following the occurrence of any of the events specified in paragraphs 7.4(c)(i) and 7.4(c)(ii) and seeking to identify and implement actions that reduce the delay effect of such events;
(e) setting up and holding regular and effective performance review meetings with Network Rail, evidenced by meeting minutes and the closure of actions agreed between the parties;
(f) regularly monitoring (at least every Reporting Period) the delivery of commitments made by Network Rail in the Performance Strategy Plan and derived delivery plans and using reasonable endeavours to specify and develop such delivery plans;
(g) as and when required by Network Rail, co-operating with Network Rail in improving the accuracy of future timetables by providing access to trains (and data collected from on train systems), other facilities and/or information;
(h) co-operating with Network Rail in other delay management initiatives and ongoing quarterly reviews of the Performance Strategy Plan;
(i) regularly reviewing (at least every Reporting Period) the imposition and clearance of temporary speed restrictions;
(j) regularly reviewing (at least every Reporting Period) the timely and efficient handover and hand-back of possessions; and
(k) where appropriate and where Network Rail fails to perform its obligations under the Track Access Agreement, enforcing the Franchisee's rights under such Track Access Agreement.

7.5 The Franchisee undertakes to reasonably co-operate with Network Rail with regard to Network Rail's management of the network, including in relation to the establishment of up to date Timetable Planning Rules (as such term is defined under the Network Code).

7.6 To the extent not already provided for in the Franchise Agreement, the Franchisee shall use all reasonable endeavours to ensure the performance by Network Rail of its obligations under any relevant agreement including, where appropriate or where requested by the Secretary of State, enforcing its rights against Network Rail under any such agreement.

7.7 When and to the extent reasonably requested by the Secretary of State, the Franchisee shall provide to the Secretary of State evidence of the steps taken by it in order to comply with its obligations under this paragraph 7.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: devonexpress on March 17, 2018, 01:05:07
I've found GWR fairly good for staffing at Newton Abbot, apart from the bad weather from storm emma(several days after it was over) where there was only 4 staff, and half of them left after 4pm leaving gatelines open and ticket office shut.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 17, 2018, 07:12:33
One amongst dozens (as usual), but what it means is, if you're a Spurs fan, you won't be getting to the match today.


06:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 10:44
06:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 10:44 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 17, 2018, 08:59:27
....  if you're a Spurs fan, you won't be getting to the match today.

Spurs fans WILL make it if the 08:00 PAD - SWA runs to schedule and the fans perform a Usain Bolt from Swansea Station to the Football Stadium.

What plonker at GWR decided to cancel the 06:57 from PAD which no doubt would be heavily booked for today's F A Quarter Final Cup Tie.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on March 17, 2018, 09:17:48
I didn;t think there was a London Underground station near Hayes & Harlington?

Hatton Cross and Heathrow Central would be the nearest. Take the 90 or 140 bus respectively. In the evening peak both bus journeys should be about 18 minutes. I've had to do that a few times.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 17, 2018, 09:45:13
....  if you're a Spurs fan, you won't be getting to the match today.

Spurs fans WILL make it if the 08:00 PAD - SWA runs to schedule and the fans perform a Usain Bolt from Swansea Station to the Football Stadium.

What plonker at GWR decided to cancel the 06:57 from PAD which no doubt would be heavily booked for today's F A Quarter Final Cup Tie.

The 0900 is starting from Bristol Temple Meads, so no chance of jumping on that one at Paddington and at least getting there for the second half (.....or a delayed kick off?)

Never realised there were so many Arsenal fans at GWR.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on March 17, 2018, 16:02:57
Welcome indeed, nickswift99. You have a point. It's a shambles.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on March 17, 2018, 16:31:35
I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered".


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 17, 2018, 17:17:48
I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered.
Yes an interesting exchange of tweets there between a customer and GWR.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on March 17, 2018, 17:35:41
I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered".

Has the SPURS fans been told this, expect quite a few hotel costs 'to be considered' and consequential losses claims to be made !!!!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on March 18, 2018, 17:04:58
I swear they are doing everything they can to put people off using their services. Just looking on Twitter now, the last two Swansea - Paddington services tonight are being cancelled, no buses or taxis being offered and hotel costs only "considered.
Yes an interesting exchange of tweets there between a customer and GWR.

You're welcome. I actually fully appreciate what GWR are going through but the lack of Senior Management communications is what really turns my gears. A least Ryanair had the bravery to come out and admit they had issues. They tried to paper over people's rights but that got corrected. The passengers have so few rights due to the lack of delay repay that they should be reminded from time to time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 18, 2018, 17:31:58
Welcome to the forum YouKnowNothing.
 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on March 18, 2018, 17:46:58
Thank you. Long time reader but first time poster. However, I see some of your forum members have read my tweets.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 18, 2018, 17:47:35
Welcome to the forum YouKnowNothing.
 

Welcome indeed.   I'm wondering who is the "you" and what  unknown is - fascinating forum name, and I hope you'll stick around and help us learn something. :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IanL on March 18, 2018, 17:50:15
Welcome to the forum YouKnowNothing.
 

Welcome indeed.   I'm wondering who is the "you" and what  unknown is - fascinating forum name, and I hope you'll stick around and help us learn something. :)

Perhaps this is the real Jon Snow?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 08:28:25
Today's cancellation collection so far due to lack of drivers.

(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)

08:43 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 11:29
10:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:39
11:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 14:03
11:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 14:43
12:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:41
12:22 London Paddington to Moreton-In-Marsh due 14:00
12:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:14
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:39
13:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 16:31
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:14
14:35 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 17:26
14:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:43
14:50 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington due 16:29
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:38
15:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:30
16:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:43
17:22 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 19:44
17:45 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:48
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:37
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:22
18:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:22
18:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:28
19:15 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:20
20:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:44
20:04 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 22:29


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: rower40 on April 07, 2018, 08:36:51
(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)
Maybe the server needs to have some drivers re-installed...



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 08:47:09
(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)

(I note that we'd lost a couple of weeks worth of contributions on this thread since the server meltdown!)
Maybe the server needs to have some drivers re-installed...

?

To my knowledge, we should only have lost data lunchtime on Good Friday (13:26 on 30th March) to the end of 2nd April - that's Easter Monday.     Please let me know what else has been lost outside that timeframe; I still have the database backup from lunch time on Good Friday that I restored from and can take a further look.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 09:15:45
From Easter Sunday (1st April), posted by TaplowGreen and just forwarded to me by another member who's watching the thread and notifications.   I'm advised no notifications so no contribution to the thread from 18th March until 31st March (data incomplete for that day),  so the gap is most likely explained by the lack of contributions rather than anything being lost.   It would have been very odd indeed for us to have been able to restore everything *except* this thread, and even odder had notifies failed, so I'm pretty satisfied with my dates and limitations of loss.

Quote
All cancelled. Happy Easter from GWR....

08:27 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 10:13
08:57 London Paddington to Plymouth due 12:29
09:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 11:32
10:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 12:26
11:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:25
11:55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:16
12:55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:15
13:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 15:20
13:48 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:14
14:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:40
14:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 16:21
15:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:32
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:50
16:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 18:33
16:29 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 18:14
17:03 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 19:32
17:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:50
17:29 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 19:14
18:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 20:50
18:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 20:21
19:20 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 21:43
19:30 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 21:14
19:40 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 21:20
21:03 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 22:45
21:30 Bath Spa to Swindon due 21:57
22:05 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:47
22:23 Swindon to Bath Spa due 22:53
22:33 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:17


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 09:47:21
Must be my mistake, apologies!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 07, 2018, 09:52:24
There are quite a few of those that are scheduled to run which look like being cosy due to several 5 vice 10s because, allegedly, of faults.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 07, 2018, 10:21:27
Concerned for the ‘evening peak’ out of Paddington this evening particularly to South Wales and the South West with the last train to Penzance the 18.03 canned. Frustrating when all the cancellations appear together at the same time and at the wrong time, if there’s ever a right time of course.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 07, 2018, 10:49:10
Cancelling the 18-03 is very poor indeed.

It is indeed the last through service to the far west, except on a Friday when the 19-03 runs to Penzance.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 07, 2018, 10:55:04
I thought that the train crew situation was meant to be improving "in the new year" ?
This year is not of course over yet, but we are over one quarter through the year without significant improvement.

"In the new year" is generally understood to mean reasonably early in the new year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 11:06:12
I thought that the train crew situation was meant to be improving "in the new year" ?
This year is not of course over yet, but we are over one quarter through the year without significant improvement.

"In the new year" is generally understood to mean reasonably early in the new year.

Ah but which year  (if any) was specified? 🤔


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 11:10:05
I thought that the train crew situation was meant to be improving "in the new year" ?
This year is not of course over yet, but we are over one quarter through the year without significant improvement.

"In the new year" is generally understood to mean reasonably early in the new year.

Ah but which year  (if any) was specified? 🤔

"In the new year" probably came from one of my posts / based on my enquiries.   If so, related to services operated by regional trains to, from or through the Westbury hub.  And there has been a massive improvement in crew availability on those services.  Still not perfect, and we've had other issues, some new ones ....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 07, 2018, 12:14:42
I would be surprised at the rate we’re going if driver shortages are resolved in any meaningful way before Autumn.  We are (slowly and inefficiently) getting through the backlog, but I foresee any improvement in the percentage of drivers fully trained being nullified by the increase in drivers on leave over summer.  In fact I would put money on it getting worse before it gets better.

Now we have 769s thrown into the mix that will mean even more training.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 07, 2018, 12:21:59
I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 07, 2018, 12:28:04
I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

19 are coming to GWR IIRC - mostly destined for the Reading to Gatwick Line, but also some of the branches.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 12:41:36
I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

There are a total of around 80 class 319 units and conversion could go well beyond a couple of dozen.  As third rail capable units, they have a thumping great 750v bus bar along the train, and the supply of electric to that bar from a diesel engine running under one or two of the lighter coaches in the set is logical and relatively straightforward, I am told.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 07, 2018, 12:50:15
Was not aware of this.
I can see the merits of these trains, but find it most regrettable that training on new stock has such adverse effects on existing services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 13:09:44
In the latter part of 2017 (and for many months previously) we were all led to believe by GWR that the early part of 2018 would see the arrival at the promised land, with loads of new stock, previously unheard of steps up in capacity, reliability etc etc.

Somewhere along the line, before making all these promises and raising expectations accordingly, perhaps Marketing/PR should have spoken to Operations to ascertain that there would be enough drivers to move the above around, and that there would be sufficient reliable stock available to run the service  rather than "more than usual being in for repair" which has now been going on for what must be approaching 2 years.

If II is to be believed (and I see no reason why he shouldn't) it won't improve before the Autumn.

Next time people tell me off for criticising GWRs "Manana Manana" promises, they may care to bear this in mind, as it seems that for GWR and their customers, "Manana" never comes.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 07, 2018, 13:14:37
It’s only an opinion, and I’m certainly not always right (witness my own ‘turning the corner’ posts at the end of last year), but we have been inept in virtually every regard since the turn of the year so it’s an opinion I hold with a certain amount of confidence.  I really hope I’m wrong.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 13:29:15
It’s only an opinion, and I’m certainly not always right (witness my own ‘turning the corner’ posts at the end of last year), but we have been inept in virtually every regard since the turn of the year so it’s an opinion I hold with a certain amount of confidence.  I really hope I’m wrong.

Your honesty and candour is always appreciated amongst the sea of defensiveness elsewhere II.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 07, 2018, 14:56:57
I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

There are a total of around 80 class 319 units and conversion could go well beyond a couple of dozen.  As third rail capable units, they have a thumping great 750v bus bar along the train, and the supply of electric to that bar from a diesel engine running under one or two of the lighter coaches in the set is logical and relatively straightforward, I am told.




ATW are due to receive 5 x 769s also.   The GWR ones are meant for the North Downs.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 07, 2018, 15:45:11
GWRs "copy and paste" usually says that there are staff rostered but don't have the specifics or that there are spare staff available but are in the wrong place.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 15:57:46
ATW are due to receive 5 x 769s also.

Indeed. 

Plans for their use?    Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham services??  or Manchester services??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on April 07, 2018, 16:08:11
Don't think they'd make Ebbw Vale on diesel.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 07, 2018, 19:45:01
ATW are due to receive 5 x 769s also.

Indeed. 

Plans for their use?    Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham services??  or Manchester services??

Not decided yet.    Most probably to replace 4 car formations (these are 4 Car units)  on the Cardiff Valleys so that these can be used elsewhere on the Network.     ATW just say to provide extra capacity but it seems to be to release 150s for PRM Mods  which nobody has done anything about yet, despite the Welsh Government being told about it in 2013. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on April 07, 2018, 20:17:12
I thought that the 769s are the ex class 319s that have been rendered bi-mode by fitting diesel engines, are these to utilised in the GWR area ?
I thought that they were destined for the North.

There are a total of around 80 class 319 units and conversion could go well beyond a couple of dozen.  As third rail capable units, they have a thumping great 750v bus bar along the train, and the supply of electric to that bar from a diesel engine running under one or two of the lighter coaches in the set is logical and relatively straightforward, I am told.

Even with two of the proposed MAN D2876 engines, at their highest rating of 390 kW, and a pretty lightweight train, the performance is very unimpressive: a P/W of 4.4 kW/t (half of a cl 180's). Even as an EMU it wasn't brilliant, at 7.2, even if it is rated at 100 mph. So not an obvious choice for the North Downs Line.

I'm still puzzled how the 769s' use on GWR went from pure speculation to accepted fact in the last three months without, AFAICS, going through the intervening stage of a reliable piece of news announcing it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 07, 2018, 21:15:49
Cancelling the 18-03 is very poor indeed.

It is indeed the last through service to the far west, except on a Friday when the 19-03 runs to Penzance.

Re-instated


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 07, 2018, 21:58:19
All in all wasn’t too bad a day unless you were travelling to South Wales.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 07, 2018, 22:16:12
All in all wasn’t too bad a day unless you were travelling to South Wales.

Awesome I'd say..........unless

Cancellations to services between Newport South Wales and Cardiff Central
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Newport (South Wales) and Cardiff Central the line towards Cardiff Central is blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 120 minutes or terminated at and started back from Newport South Wales. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 08, 2018, 06:26:27
With the line between Bath and Bristol closed today I had concerns for passengers using Bath Spa to travel to/from London that services could be affected by train crew issues.

Well I was right to be concerned, far worse than I thought with the train shuttle service between Bath and Swindon virtually wiped out and the few direct trains due to run from/to London either cancelled or terminating at Swindon.

I’ll leave it to others to talk through the other so far 55 cancellations apart from to say if you are hoping to travel from Cheltenham to London today forget it and as II mentioned on another thread WoE look to be affected today also.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 07:28:59
With the line between Bath and Bristol closed today I had concerns for passengers using Bath Spa to travel to/from London that services could be affected by train crew issues.

Well I was right to be concerned, far worse than I thought with the train shuttle service between Bath and Swindon virtually wiped out and the few direct trains due to run from/to London either cancelled or terminating at Swindon.

I’ll leave it to others to talk through the other so far 55 cancellations apart from to say if you are hoping to travel from Cheltenham to London today forget it and as II mentioned on another thread WoE look to be affected today also.

GWR web site is not offering much:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/cpm_bth_20180408.jpg)

So during the day, that's train to Swindon, train to Temple Meads (via Parkway, sometime with a change) and bus to Bath Spa.

But note

* X31 bus runs every two hours. Chippenham Station to Bath Spa Station. Run by - err - First  ;D

* If you know what you're doing, you can travel hourly from Chippenham to Bath Spa with a change at Trowbridge - e.g. 12:35 at Chippenham, 12:50 to 13:17 at Trowbridge, into Bath Spa at 13:35.   Some journeys have a better change.

Not only a failure to provide a train service, but also a failure to provide correct information about alternatives!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 07:34:27
P.S.  Here's the total Journey Check comment - no advise here on what to do instead.

Quote
11:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 12:30
11:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 12:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

My Dad was a wise man. Much missed. 
Quote
If you have go give bad news to someone / say "NO" ...
1. Express Regret
2. Give Reason
3. Suggest Alternative
GWR are scoring just one out of three - pretty poor for a company that's been running these services for decades, and should know a bit about customer relations by now  ;D



Edit to add - my attempt at advise ... not really my job to fill in for TOC failures, but it doesn't half help the CRP's profile as an important and useful player for the passenger!

https://www.facebook.com/TransWilts/photos/a.402860103147371.1073741825.294993730600676/1356304114469627




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 08, 2018, 08:15:39
Indeed it would be useful to let those intending to travel out of Bath today just how they are going to be able to travel. I can only assume GWR have sourced buses to take Bath passengers to either Chippenham or Swindon to get a train from there.

I wonder how far back they knew they weren’t going to be able to run the timetabled service out of Bath today?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 08, 2018, 08:17:29
Spare a thought for the passengers on the last Paddington - Cardiff service which "Will be terminated at Bristol Parkway due to lack of train crew"

Told at Paddington that there would be onward road transport to Newport and Cardiff available at Bristol Parkway.

Arrived at Parkway no road transport except a handful of taxis and almost as one the taxi drivers stood firm and refused to accept fares across the POW bridge claiming they'd been on duty since 14.00 or 16.00 hrs that day.

Harassed member of GWR staff on duty made a couple of phone calls and established there was a coach on its way from West Bromwich and would be there in about two hours time.

He was finishing his shift and he had to secure the station for the night and so left the luckless passengers shivering in the vehicle entrance to the multi storey car park as that was about the only shelter available from the torrential rain that night.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 08, 2018, 08:24:07
The couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery syndrome strikes again
Frankly that is a disgusting way to treat paying customers,
And whoever locked them out of Parkway and went home ,definitely needs to be spoken too and harshly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 08:28:28
Spare a thought for the passengers on the last Paddington - Cardiff service ..

Harassed member of GWR staff on duty ...

Very much a thought for the passengers ... and also a thought for the staff on the ground who in most cases are doing their very best to be helpful.   

I noted your previous post about a member of staff leaving his job / retiring early, and the first few days of this month have brought more lomg-experienced operational staff who have to face passengers - platform staff, ticket office, train conductors / manager to the point of asking "why do I do this".

Provision  by management to the staff who face passengers daily of a service they can be proud of - or failing that excellent backup in adversity, with high-quality and accurate explanations and prompt alternatives - would not only help passengers, but would also help their staff retention.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 08:31:58
The couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery syndrome strikes again
Frankly that is a disgusting way to treat paying customers

Agreed. Totally

Quote
And whoever locked them out of Parkway and went home ,definitely needs to be spoken too and harshly.

Agreed. With one proviso. If (s)he could not stay on due to health and safety rules / timeouts etc.  There is a slight possibility (I'm sure others will advise us) that staying on could have resulted in a significant disciplinary ... working too long a shift around the railway, etc ...



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2018, 08:34:23
Cancellations so far today.........apparently the Famous Five are signing up with National Express.


08:00 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 10:54
08:19 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:09
08:22 Slough to Windsor & Eton Central due 08:28
08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
08:32 Windsor & Eton Central to Slough due 08:38
09:00 Bath Spa to Swindon due 09:33
09:10 Swindon to Bath Spa due 09:44
09:13 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:12
09:30 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 12:24
09:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 10:30
10:00 Bath Spa to Swindon due 10:31
10:03 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 12:32
10:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:44
10:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 11:26
11:02 Bath Spa to Swindon due 11:35
11:14 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 14:07
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:27
11:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 12:30
12:13 Bath Spa to Swindon due 12:40
12:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:45
12:55 Swindon to Bath Spa due 13:26
13:00 Bath Spa to Swindon due 13:35
13:09 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington due 16:06
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:59
13:38 Bath Spa to Swindon due 14:05
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 16:01
14:16 Swindon to Bath Spa due 14:48
14:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:45
14:42 London Paddington to Hereford due 17:56
15:11 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:58
15:25 Bath Spa to Swindon due 15:52
15:42 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 18:06
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:01
16:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:46
16:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 19:35
16:43 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 18:22
17:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:43
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:00
18:26 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 21:00
18:27 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 20:08
18:30 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:13
18:43 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 20:22
18:57 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:29
19:12 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:57
19:27 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 21:00
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:15 Westbury to Bath Spa due 20:43
20:21 Bath Spa to Swindon due 20:48
21:03 Bath Spa to Weymouth due 23:11
21:07 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 22:52
21:25 Swindon to Bath Spa due 21:58
21:25 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 23:22
22:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:57
22:17 Westbury to Bath Spa due 22:42
22:23 Bath Spa to Swindon due 22:50
22:33 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:17
23:15 Bath Spa to Westbury due 23:43


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 08, 2018, 08:55:02
Spare a thought for the passengers on the last Paddington - Cardiff service which "Will be terminated at Bristol Parkway due to lack of train crew"

Told at Paddington that there would be onward road transport to Newport and Cardiff available at Bristol Parkway.

Arrived at Parkway no road transport except a handful of taxis and almost as one the taxi drivers stood firm and refused to accept fares across the POW bridge claiming they'd been on duty since 14.00 or 16.00 hrs that day.

Harassed member of GWR staff on duty made a couple of phone calls and established there was a coach on its way from West Bromwich and would be there in about two hours time.

He was finishing his shift and he had to secure the station for the night and so left the luckless passengers shivering in the vehicle entrance to the multi storey car park as that was about the only shelter available from the torrential rain that night.
West Bromwich!?!?!

How GWR can be allowed to get away with this is a joke.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 08, 2018, 08:58:09
The couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery syndrome strikes again
Frankly that is a disgusting way to treat paying customers

Agreed. Totally

Quote
And whoever locked them out of Parkway and went home ,definitely needs to be spoken too and harshly.

Agreed. With one proviso. If (s)he could not stay on due to health and safety rules / timeouts etc.  There is a slight possibility (I'm sure others will advise us) that staying on could have resulted in a significant disciplinary ... working too long a shift around the railway, etc ...



I understand the local constabulary were called and attended with a 'blue lighter' and advised the GWR staff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 08, 2018, 09:02:58
I’m not surprised the police were called after being told your bus is coming all the way from West Brom people would have had enough.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 08, 2018, 09:08:27
Cancellations so far today.........apparently the Famous Five are signing up with National Express.


I like that comment.

BUT what is the Rail Regulator / Minister of Transport doing about the situation, I'll tell you, sweet F A, because neither of them got any guts.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2018, 09:57:05
Spare a thought for the passengers on the last Paddington - Cardiff service which "Will be terminated at Bristol Parkway due to lack of train crew"

Told at Paddington that there would be onward road transport to Newport and Cardiff available at Bristol Parkway.

Arrived at Parkway no road transport except a handful of taxis and almost as one the taxi drivers stood firm and refused to accept fares across the POW bridge claiming they'd been on duty since 14.00 or 16.00 hrs that day.

Harassed member of GWR staff on duty made a couple of phone calls and established there was a coach on its way from West Bromwich and would be there in about two hours time.

He was finishing his shift and he had to secure the station for the night and so left the luckless passengers shivering in the vehicle entrance to the multi storey car park as that was about the only shelter available from the torrential rain that night.

If, as appears to be the case it was known, hours in advance, that there was no driver available to take the service forward past Bristol and yet no provision was made by GWR for timely road transport, either by coach or taxi, and/or warm and secure accommodation to be made available whilst they waited, then something more than a "harsh talking to" is required, and at a somewhat higher level than the poor sap who was left to deal with it.

It is beyond comprehension that the disorganisation and disarray within GWR/First Group has got to such a stage that buses have to be summoned from the Midlands to Bristol to take customers on to Wales late at night, and for those already hugely inconvenienced passengers to have to wait hours on end for them to arrive.

As to Graham's comments about "elf and safety timeouts", you may recall that a couple of weeks ago the actions of a French Policeman, no doubt in contravention of Health and Safety advice, saved lives at the cost of his own.

I think that perhaps puts the dreadful dangers and self sacrifice of using one's discretion/common sense and sticking around to allow members of the public to wait in a safer, warmer and drier environment late at night into perspective.

I very much doubt he would have faced disciplinary action had he done so unless GWR wish to appear even more incompetent and ridiculous than they already do - it would perhaps however have been refreshing in the circumstances if a couple of Managers had shown leadership and pitched up to take over from him? It would be interesting to know what advice he was given in terms of closing the station.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on April 08, 2018, 12:14:52
I am going to ask for a refund on my 3 year  Disabled Railcard, as there are simply not the trains to use it on! When the list of cancellations exceeds the number of services running, surely it is time for Hopwood to man up and speak out.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 08, 2018, 12:47:45
It would have been preferable for the station employee to remain at work beyond their normal departure time. It would be unreasonable to insist on this of course.
If the employee was unwilling to remain, then yes I agree that a manager should have been sent.

A point not yet mentioned however is that the employee might well have felt it dangerous to be on their own and surrounded by a crowd of increasingly enraged passengers.

This sounds to me like lack of basic competency on the part of GWR

Initially, lack of basic competence in recruiting, training, and retaining enough staff to run the advertised service.
Later, lack of competence in arranging alternative transport in a timely fashion. It was known before the service left London that onward road transport would be needed.
And finally lack of basic competence in shutting up the station, presumably without any effort to arrange overtime working by existing staff, or substitute staff from elsewhere.

Whilst I would not support violence, had I been present, I might have been tempted to try a bit of passive resistance ! Simply sit in the waiting area and decline to move. It would take several policemen to carry me out, and since the police are often a lot more reasonable than "the railway" One might hope that the police might enquire as to what was going on.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on April 08, 2018, 12:51:34
Has the experience been documented anywhere else other than this forum?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 08, 2018, 13:00:32
Has the experience been documented anywhere else other than this forum?

Don't know.
It is however known that at Paddington that the train was announced as terminating short.
It is also known that it did indeed terminate short.

It would however be interesting to know more details.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2018, 14:07:32
Whilst I would not support violence, had I been present, I might have been tempted to try a bit of passive resistance ! Simply sit in the waiting area and decline to move. It would take several policemen to carry me out, and since the police are often a lot more reasonable than "the railway" One might hope that the police might enquire as to what was going on.



I suspect that the Police, given their greater predisposition to common sense and the wellbeing of the public would have suggested politely but firmly that the waiting area should remain open for customers rather than dumping them outside in the cold/dark to await the arrival of the West Bromwich cavalry and would have escalated the situation rapidly up the chain of command in order to catalyse the removal of the collective GWR thumb from the orifice.

There simply has to be an on call senior manager within GWR to handle this type of scenario or other serious OOH problems to whom staff on the ground can refer to...........hasn't there???  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 08, 2018, 20:50:26
Well GWR managed to run three Paddington to Bath services and return this afternoon/evening presumably operated by London based train crew. The other London services to/from Bath and the Swindon-Bath shuttles all canned.

A pretty much full Bath to Westbury also ran so Bath wasn’t totally bereft of train services today.

Next weekend we have South Wales and Bristol services diverted via the Berks and Hants to look forward to because of engineering work at Swindon. Wonder what mischief to the planned timetable because of traincrew issues we’ll see then?

I’ll try and be optimistic and say hopefully not a lot.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 08, 2018, 23:08:03
And trouble getting to Cardiff again ...

Quote
Cancellations to services between Newport South Wales and Cardiff Central
Due to theft of signalling cables between Newport (South Wales) and Cardiff Central all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed by up to 120 minutes. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice

Due to a cable theft the signalling system cannot be used between Newport and Cardiff Central. Trains are currently unable to operate and no trains are running between Wales and the Bristol area.

Network Rail will be deploying staff to allow a degraded method of working to operate between Newport and Cardiff. This will take some time to implement, and trains will be subject to severe delay and alteration in the meantime.

Attempts are being made to source Replacement Road Transport to operate between Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 08, 2018, 23:38:02
And trouble getting to Cardiff again ...

Quote
Cancellations to services between Newport South Wales and Cardiff Central
Due to theft of signalling cables between Newport (South Wales) and Cardiff Central all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled or delayed by up to 120 minutes. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice

Due to a cable theft the signalling system cannot be used between Newport and Cardiff Central. Trains are currently unable to operate and no trains are running between Wales and the Bristol area.

Network Rail will be deploying staff to allow a degraded method of working to operate between Newport and Cardiff. This will take some time to implement, and trains will be subject to severe delay and alteration in the meantime.

Attempts are being made to source Replacement Road Transport to operate between Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central.

.........across the West Midlands bus drivers are starting their engines........


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 21, 2018, 08:23:28
.......cancellations so far today.........good luck if you're aiming to travel London - Bristol this morning!

05:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 08:30
07:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:01
08:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:41
08:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:22
08:43 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 11:29
09:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 10:39
10:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:40
10:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:39
11:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:07
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:14
12:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:22
12:22 London Paddington to Moreton-In-Marsh due 14:00
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:41
14:50 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington due 16:29
15:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:07


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 21, 2018, 09:11:32
 :( after a good weekend last week it doesn’t look good for this weekend.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 21, 2018, 10:49:10

More cancellations being added.............

15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:38
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:38
18:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:28
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:14
19:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:44
20:04 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 22:29


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 21, 2018, 11:33:14
Interesting to see the 1145 Pad-Swansea is being diverted between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to call at Chippenham and Bath Spa This is due to a shortage of train drivers. Overcrowding due to earlier Bristol services being cancelled?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 21, 2018, 11:47:41
Interesting to see the 1145 Pad-Swansea is being diverted between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to call at Chippenham and Bath Spa This is due to a shortage of train drivers. Overcrowding due to earlier Bristol services being cancelled?

There is some logic in that - provided the trains will have the capacity. 

Reductio ad absurdum ...  2 an hour Bristol to London + 1 an hour Swansea to London and 1 an hour Cheltenham Spa to London (4 trains) reduces to 2 trains - one from Swansea and 1 from Bristol, with connections at Bath Spa for London to give a second option in each hour from Bristol, and at Swindon with an extra local from Cheltenham Spa.

Of course once you also need to serve Malmesbury Road ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on April 21, 2018, 11:54:14
:( after a good weekend last week it doesn’t look good for this weekend.

Sunnier weather?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 21, 2018, 11:58:22
Interesting to see the 1145 Pad-Swansea is being diverted between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to call at Chippenham and Bath Spa This is due to a shortage of train drivers. Overcrowding due to earlier Bristol services being cancelled?

There is some logic in that - provided the trains will have the capacity. 

Reductio ad absurdum ...  2 an hour Bristol to London + 1 an hour Swansea to London and 1 an hour Cheltenham Spa to London (4 trains) reduces to 2 trains - one from Swansea and 1 from Bristol, with connections at Bath Spa for London to give a second option in each hour from Bristol, and at Swindon with an extra local from Cheltenham Spa.

Of course once you also need to serve Malmesbury Road ...
Try 0 an hour between Pad-Bristol:
1130, 1200 and 1230 all canned hence the decision to divert the Swansea train. Bet it’s cosy on board.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 21, 2018, 12:11:49
:( after a good weekend last week it doesn’t look good for this weekend.

Sunnier weather?

Well - last weekend there were an awful lot of pre-planned early cancellations because Swindon was shut.   Is the difference today is that they're just being implemented on the day?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on April 21, 2018, 12:12:02
And the headline message on the website?

"There is generally a good service on the GWR network."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 21, 2018, 13:50:48
Try 0 an hour between Pad-Bristol:
1130, 1200 and 1230 all canned hence the decision to divert the Swansea train. Bet it’s cosy on board.
As the saying well sort of goes...what doesn’t go down on the ‘down main’ won’t come back up on the ‘up main’.
1400, 1430 and 1500 Bristol-Pad all canned. Shortage of London based crew day?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 21, 2018, 14:09:06
And the headline message on the website?

"There is generally a good service on the GWR network."

I have long since given up regarding the front page of the GWR website as being a useful source of information, at best it should be considered as an advertisement, and at worst as propaganda, not a news source.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 21, 2018, 14:19:42
Interesting to see the 1145 Pad-Swansea is being diverted between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to call at Chippenham and Bath Spa This is due to a shortage of train drivers. Overcrowding due to earlier Bristol services being cancelled?

Only got as far as Bristol Parkway.   Broke.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on April 21, 2018, 19:07:47
Interesting to see the 1145 Pad-Swansea is being diverted between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to call at Chippenham and Bath Spa This is due to a shortage of train drivers. Overcrowding due to earlier Bristol services being cancelled?

Only got as far as Bristol Parkway.   Broke.

It can now therefore be moved to the other column, "More trains than usual needing repairs at the same time".


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 22, 2018, 07:19:00
GWR bracing everyone for a rough day ahead. On the plus side, if you hold an Advance ticket you can use it on any train. Good that common sense has prevailed on that one and one less thing the staff who are working today have to deal with when checking tickets.

Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes
Due to a shortage of train crew:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between London Waterloo and Exeter St Davids in both directions until further notice.
Additional Information
Due to severe shortages of train crew today, disruption and cancellations to High Speed, Long Distance services can be expected on all routes.

Ticket restrictions have been lifted on all routes. Customers with 'advance' tickets may use them on any GWR train today; however reservations cannot be honoured on services other than your booked train. Please note other operators have NOT lifted advance ticket restrictions; and if your journey involves other operators you will have to travel on your booked train with that operator.

If you are delayed by more than 1 hour; you may be eligible for delay compensation. Please visit the GWR website for further details on how to claim.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 08:13:19
GWR bracing everyone for a rough day ahead. On the plus side, if you hold an Advance ticket you can use it on any train. Good that common sense has prevailed on that one and one less thing the staff who are working today have to deal with when checking tickets.

Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes
Due to a shortage of train crew:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
South Western Railway are conveying passengers between London Waterloo and Exeter St Davids in both directions until further notice.
Additional Information
Due to severe shortages of train crew today, disruption and cancellations to High Speed, Long Distance services can be expected on all routes.

Ticket restrictions have been lifted on all routes. Customers with 'advance' tickets may use them on any GWR train today; however reservations cannot be honoured on services other than your booked train. Please note other operators have NOT lifted advance ticket restrictions; and if your journey involves other operators you will have to travel on your booked train with that operator.

If you are delayed by more than 1 hour; you may be eligible for delay compensation. Please visit the GWR website for further details on how to claim.

..............there's a plus side?  :o


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 08:21:12
The detail (so far) - this is the first time I've noticed the far South West services being so badly affected - the 0840,1011 and 1100 services from Plymouth are the first three direct of the day - given how colossally overcrowded services from Devon and Cornwall always are on Sundays, travelling on the later services which will have to pick up all these abandoned customers simply does not bear thinking about.


07:45 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 09:39
08:30 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 11:30
08:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
08:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:22
08:44 London Paddington to Oxford due 10:00
10:05 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 12:31
10:11 Plymouth to London Paddington due 14:00
10:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:44
10:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 13:31
10:53 Oxford to London Paddington due 12:06
11:00 Plymouth to London Paddington due 14:28
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:27
12:43 Swansea to Carmarthen due 13:30
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:57
14:04 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington due 17:07
14:11 Carmarthen to Swansea due 14:56
14:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 17:31
15:05 Swansea to Carmarthen due 15:51
16:05 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:55
16:07 Carmarthen to Swansea due 16:51
16:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 19:35
17:55 Swansea to Carmarthen due 18:40
18:09 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington due 21:07
19:05 Carmarthen to Swansea due 19:49


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 22, 2018, 08:31:04
Additional advice has been posted

Quote
CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Plymouth and Bristol Parkway in both directions until further notice.

Customers with tickets dated Sunday 22nd April 2018 may use them on GWR services ONLY on Monday 23rd April 2018.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 22, 2018, 08:42:10
Quote
If you are delayed by more than 1 hour; you may be eligible for delay compensation. Please visit the GWR website for further details on how to claim.

I really do hope this runs into the many thousands of pounds, surely better to use said money on staff to provide an actual service.




Oh and one for Taplow Green and others, if you click on the 'Train Running' button which takes you to the JourneyCheck page, then at the top click 'Customer Service', it kind of says it all really


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 22, 2018, 08:46:44
Quote
the 0840,1011 and 1100 services from Plymouth are the first three direct of the day -


Not to worry, the 11:00 has been re-instated!
Quote
11:00 Plymouth to London Paddington due 14:28 will be reinstated.
Horray!


Quote
It will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Ah!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 22, 2018, 08:54:53
Quote
the 0840,1011 and 1100 services from Plymouth are the first three direct of the day -


Not to worry, the 11:00 has been re-instated!
Quote
11:00 Plymouth to London Paddington due 14:28 will be reinstated.
Horray!


Quote
It will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Ah!
Oh well, at least it gives the chance to change at Exeter for services to Waterloo.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on April 22, 2018, 09:10:09
Co-ordinated action ("Barbecue Sunday") by Plymouth depot today with no guards and only 2 drivers willing to work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on April 22, 2018, 09:12:35
And for the trains that are running:

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Slough

Due to a person being hit by a train between London Paddington and Slough all lines are blocked.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 90 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 12:00 22/04.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on April 22, 2018, 09:26:10
And for the trains that are running:

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Slough

Due to a person being hit by a train between London Paddington and Slough all lines are blocked.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 90 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 12:00 22/04.

Person was clipped by a HEx service. Lines will reopen very quickly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 09:28:02
Co-ordinated action ("Barbecue Sunday") by Plymouth depot today with no guards and only 2 drivers willing to work.

If that's the case then I am ashamed of my fellow Janners - hope they choke on their sausages!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 09:41:05
Latest cancellation picture - situation deteriorating - there are also dozens of "updates" which are effectively cancellations for large parts of services but too many to list here.

07:45 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 09:39
08:30 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 11:30
08:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
08:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:22
08:44 London Paddington to Oxford due 10:00
10:05 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 12:31
10:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:44
10:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 13:31
10:53 Oxford to London Paddington due 12:06
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:27
12:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:22
12:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:45
12:43 Swansea to Carmarthen due 13:30
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:57
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:00 London Paddington to Plymouth due 17:29
14:04 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington due 17:07
14:11 Carmarthen to Swansea due 14:56
14:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 17:31
15:05 Swansea to Carmarthen due 15:51
15:05 London Paddington to Taunton due 17:59
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:57
16:05 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:55
16:07 Carmarthen to Swansea due 16:51
16:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:10
16:37 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway due 19:35
17:55 Swansea to Carmarthen due 18:40
18:09 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington due 21:07
18:30 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:14
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22
19:00 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:29
19:05 Carmarthen to Swansea due 19:49
19:43 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:21
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36
20:15 Liskeard to Looe due 20:44
20:42 London Paddington to Oxford due 22:00
20:50 Looe to Liskeard due 21:18
22:35 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:29
22:50 Oxford to London Paddington due 23:58


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 22, 2018, 10:19:22
Quote
the 0840,1011 and 1100 services from Plymouth are the first three direct of the day -


Not to worry, the 11:00 has been re-instated!
Quote
11:00 Plymouth to London Paddington due 14:28 will be reinstated.
Horray!


Quote
It will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Ah!
Oh well, at least it gives the chance to change at Exeter for services to Waterloo.

Those Plymouth to Paddingtons that are being reinstated and running to Exeter only are formed with 2 carriages so seems they are being crewed by West staff rather than HSS crews


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 10:50:59
Those Plymouth to Paddingtons that are being reinstated and running to Exeter only are formed with 2 carriages so seems they are being crewed by West staff rather than HSS crews

I have no proof ... but the suggestion that there's a staff BBQ today seems to fit the bill. To my knowledge Sunday working is still a matter of choice for many / most, so no contractual reason that individuals should choose driving a train over a social with their colleagues.  Indeed, if said BBQ is organised by colleagues it catches individuals between a rock and a hard place of not letting their colleagues down by missing the event, and letting a wider public down by being an element in train services being cancelled wholesale.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 22, 2018, 11:01:37


Oh and one for Taplow Green and others, if you click on the 'Train Running' button which takes you to the JourneyCheck page, then at the top click 'Customer Service', it kind of says it all really

It does indeed say it all. Unusually honest.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 11:03:31
Those Plymouth to Paddingtons that are being reinstated and running to Exeter only are formed with 2 carriages so seems they are being crewed by West staff rather than HSS crews

I have no proof ... but the suggestion that there's a staff BBQ today seems to fit the bill. To my knowledge Sunday working is still a matter of choice for many / most, so no contractual reason that individuals should choose driving a train over a social with their colleagues.  Indeed, if said BBQ is organised by colleagues it catches individuals between a rock and a hard place of not letting their colleagues down by missing the event, and letting a wider public down by being an element in train services being cancelled wholesale.

It's almost beyond parody.

"We apologise to customers on Platform 1, your train is cancelled due to a staff BBQ"

Once again, IF this is the case, it MUST have been a foreseable circumstance that the timetable would be decimated as a result - if so, why was a workable emergency timetable not scheduled and advertised rather than everything being cancelled at the last minute when it was far, far too late for customers to make alternative arrangements?

Let's be charitable and put it down to embarrassment rather than incompetence.

Nothing like putting the customer first, is there?  ::)




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 11:19:28

Oh and one for Taplow Green and others, if you click on the 'Train Running' button which takes you to the JourneyCheck page, then at the top click 'Customer Service', it kind of says it all really

It does indeed say it all. Unusually honest.

Would you care to quote the page / give a direct link please?   I couldn't find anything ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 22, 2018, 11:31:33
https://www.gwr.com/customer-service (https://www.gwr.com/customer-service)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 22, 2018, 11:40:49
Following the link to customer services produces a page that states "CUSTOMER SERVICES, WERE SORRY THIS PAGE DOES NOT EXIST" and error 404.

Entertaining in a black humour sort of way. I assume a natural breakdown rather than hackers. Had hackers been at it, I would expect something more humorous and also a bit insulting. Such as "WE have all gone to a barbecue. So very few trains are running. We hope you enjoy your day"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on April 22, 2018, 12:02:15
Co-ordinated action ("Barbecue Sunday") by Plymouth depot today with no guards and only 2 drivers willing to work.

If that's the case then I am ashamed of my fellow Janners - hope they choke on their sausages!

Not the staff you should be ashamed of. It is the fault of the TOC for advertising a 7 days a week timetable when it only has staff contracted for 6 days of the week. 'Buying out' the Terms and Conditions of staff to include Sundays inside the week would be expensive, as well as requiring in the region of a 20 to 25% increase in headcount per depot, as Sundays would constitute part of the contracted hours and not be worked as overtime as present. This is why the TOC continue with the current set up. Once the increasingly limited amount of staff goodwill has been used up, the service falls apart.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on April 22, 2018, 12:05:48
Co-ordinated action ("Barbecue Sunday") by Plymouth depot today with no guards and only 2 drivers willing to work.

If that's the case then I am ashamed of my fellow Janners - hope they choke on their sausages!

They do not have to work Sundays. So why shouldn't they do something nice when they can? The real problem is that GWR assume they can run a 7 day service without having the staff to do so, as RA has also explained above.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 22, 2018, 13:54:38
It is now a couple of years since I suggested that NEW staff should be required to work on Sundays. There is nothing unreasonable in this if the requirement is clear at the recruitment stage.

An initially limited but steadily growing pool of staff who are required to work on say alternate weekends would limit the impact of this sort of thing.
It would not be an overnight cure of course but at least the problem would be getting better and not worse.

The unions would hate this of course, but ultimately it will have to be done.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on April 22, 2018, 14:20:51
One thing many employers in this country do not understand is that the employer is not always the one in the strongest position.  If there is a shortage of labour with a certain skill, then the boot is very much on the other foot. An employer that does not appreciate that they are in such a position might carry on in some high handed fashion and find there is no good will left.

You could insist on new staff working Sundays, but if other employers of drivers do not then you could just become a training ground for other companies drivers.

It would seem that GWR find themselves in this position, though they are not alone. Politicians are the worst possible at this.  After all if you need more doctors you just put a card in the job centre don't you!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 14:21:47

The unions would hate this of course, but ultimately it will have to be done.

Dinosaurs never liked change. They're now extinct.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 22, 2018, 14:25:09
Sunday’s within the working week will be a much quicker and more effective solution than Broadgage’s, which would take several years to have any meaningful impact, though the principle behind it is fair enough.  Driver wise I believe a provisional target implementation date has been set by both management and unions for the end of 2019.  A long way off still, but talks are ongoing.

Driver harmonisation appears to be closer than ever with a referendum due on a deal which should sail through meaning much more effective use of drivers can soon be made (IET’s running DCO on some routes for example).

Plymouth had an industrial relations issue recently, so I expect that’s why there are issues again this weekend, rather than someone throwing an impromptu BBQ - though perhaps that’s happened as a result?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 22, 2018, 15:02:45
..............there's a plus side?  :o
Not really TG, I’m just trying to find a positive in negative situation. Polishing something that can’t be polished comes to mind.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 15:34:02
..............there's a plus side?  :o
Not really TG, I’m just trying to find a positive in negative situation. Polishing something that can’t be polished comes to mind.

I'd advise against polishing it or indeed trying to put it on the BBQ.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on April 22, 2018, 15:54:39
Sunday’s within the working week will be a much quicker and more effective solution than Broadgage’s, which would take several years to have any meaningful impact, though the principle behind it is fair enough.  Driver wise I believe a provisional target implementation date has been set by both management and unions for the end of 2019.  A long way off still, but talks are ongoing.

Driver harmonisation appears to be closer than ever with a referendum due on a deal which should sail through meaning much more effective use of drivers can soon be made (IET’s running DCO on some routes for example).

Plymouth had an industrial relations issue recently, so I expect that’s why there are issues again this weekend, rather than someone throwing an impromptu BBQ - though perhaps that’s happened as a result?

Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on April 22, 2018, 16:35:42
I haven't seen this statement from GWR mentioned but there's so many threads about performance at the moment I could very easily have missed it.

http://www.clpg.org.uk/blog/cotswold-line-service-problems-a-response-from-gwr/



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 22, 2018, 16:45:21
Plymouth had an industrial relations issue recently, so I expect that’s why there are issues again this weekend, rather than someone throwing an impromptu BBQ - though perhaps that’s happened as a result?
Quote
Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason

Is Mr. Hopwood motoring down to make the presentations seeing the rail service is decimated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 22, 2018, 16:50:49
I haven't seen this statement from GWR mentioned but there's so many threads about performance at the moment I could very easily have missed it.

http://www.clpg.org.uk/blog/cotswold-line-service-problems-a-response-from-gwr/


that link is well worth a look over thanks for posting it Sixty3


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 16:57:55
Plymouth had an industrial relations issue recently, so I expect that’s why there are issues again this weekend, rather than someone throwing an impromptu BBQ - though perhaps that’s happened as a result?
Quote
Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason

Is Mr. Hopwood motoring down to make the presentations seeing the rail service is decimated.

He's flipping the burgers on the BBQ.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 17:00:46
I haven't seen this statement from GWR mentioned but there's so many threads about performance at the moment I could very easily have missed it.

http://www.clpg.org.uk/blog/cotswold-line-service-problems-a-response-from-gwr/



Looks like you found it at about the same time as Timmer ... and we were wondering where best to put it.   As it covers so much more than train crew, I suspect it's worth its own thread - so thank you indeed for first mention, but best in the other thread.   I'll see if I can work out how to split this post off here and add it to the other thread later so you get credit ... a bit nervous about my ability though, especially during the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on April 22, 2018, 17:09:05
Plymouth had an industrial relations issue recently, so I expect that’s why there are issues again this weekend, rather than someone throwing an impromptu BBQ - though perhaps that’s happened as a result?
Quote
Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason
Is Mr. Hopwood motoring down to make the presentations seeing the rail service is decimated.
He's flipping the burgers on the BBQ.

Who's turning the sausages for the hot dogs then, Mrs. Hopwood ?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on April 22, 2018, 17:36:08

The unions would hate this of course, but ultimately it will have to be done.

Dinosaurs never liked change. They're now extinct.
As I previously commented, it is the cost to the TOC that is the main barrier to changing the current set up, not the reluctance of the respective trade unions. There is nothing to stop the TOC making an offer to the unions and staff to effectively 'buy out' the current terms and conditions to facilitate Sunday working within the contracted working week. The other main issue would be a required increase in headcount at each depot of approximately 20 to 25 per cent, a substantial cost. As Sundays are currently worked as overtime, bringing them into the contracted working week requires an increase in staff numbers to cover all the shifts over the course of the week, unless you are willing to rely on covering turns with voluntary overtime and rest day working (just look at the current weekend chaos to see why this would not be a good idea).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on April 22, 2018, 18:27:08
A little bit of background to how the current Sunday traincrew staffing situation came to be.

In BR (remember them ;))days, traincrew pay was comparatively low. Sundays were historically outside of the working week, with no shortage of willing volunteers at depots keen to earn a few more pounds to boost the pay packet. Then along came privatisation. One unforseen side affect of subjecting the industry to 'market forces' was the affect this would have on staff pay. Smaller regional franchises effectively became free training schools for the more glamorous inter-city franchises. To avoid the significant cost of staff leaving one TOC to join another one with better pay and conditions, pay for frontline staff improved significantly across the board compared to BR. A consequence of this is that many staff no longer have an incentive to work more hours than contracted as the basic pay is adequate to provide a comfortable lifestyle.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on April 22, 2018, 18:37:37
I have no proof ... but the suggestion that there's a staff BBQ today seems to fit the bill. To my knowledge Sunday working is still a matter of choice for many / most, so no contractual reason that individuals should choose driving a train over a social with their colleagues.  Indeed, if said BBQ is organised by colleagues it catches individuals between a rock and a hard place of not letting their colleagues down by missing the event, and letting a wider public down by being an element in train services being cancelled wholesale.

It's a nice day for it.

Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason

Always a nice day for retirement!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: FarWestJohn on April 22, 2018, 18:46:06
Even Radio Cornwall was warning of trains cancelled with shortage of drivers today. I don't know what was cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on April 22, 2018, 19:10:56
I have no proof ... but the suggestion that there's a staff BBQ today seems to fit the bill. To my knowledge Sunday working is still a matter of choice for many / most, so no contractual reason that individuals should choose driving a train over a social with their colleagues.  Indeed, if said BBQ is organised by colleagues it catches individuals between a rock and a hard place of not letting their colleagues down by missing the event, and letting a wider public down by being an element in train services being cancelled wholesale.

It's a nice day for it.

Read in another Forum that a long serving and respected person at Plymouth is holding his retirement do today is the reason

Always a nice day for retirement!

While I'd never wish someone not to be able to celebrate their no doubt hard earned retirement, even if you take out what would be the Plymouth turns there's still way too many staff shortage cancellations/partial cancellations today (Cotswold/Oxford/Wales).

With less than a month to the next timetable change, I hope GWR take resourcing into account during their planning.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 20:48:00
The 1900 & 2000 Paddington-Plymouth have been cancelled. Nothing more past Exeter till the sleeper. I'm told there are 400 people at Paddington trying to get to the Westcountry. They are being told to "ask staff about alternative arrangements"

I really hope all the GWR staff are enjoying the BBQ and/or retirement party.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Zoe on April 22, 2018, 20:55:59
The 2100 to Exeter is calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary but there still doesn't seem to be anything for Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth (or for anyone wanting to head west from Newbury).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on April 22, 2018, 21:20:33
I’m guessing there will be issues with HSS services starting from Plymouth tomorrow morning if all drivers have made themselves unavailable tonight.


Title: Cancellations Due To Crew Shortages
Post by: CJB666 on April 22, 2018, 21:21:48
It was the London Marathon today - hottest on record. Thousands took part. And it was great to see so many GWR crew running too. Wonder how much they raised for their charities. So many crew were running that GWR had to cancel no end of services to / from Paddington and West. What a great company GWR is - er - well actually perhaps not. Thank's for all of the disruption today. If GWR crew don't want to work there are hundreds of unemployed who will.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 21:22:03
The 2100 to Exeter is calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary but there still doesn't seem to be anything for Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth (or for anyone wanting to head west from Newbury).

1V68 1403 Motherwell to Plymouth (22:47 from EXD)
1Z98 2320 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth

that latter connects from 21:00??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Zoe on April 22, 2018, 21:25:35
The 2100 to Exeter is calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary but there still doesn't seem to be anything for Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth (or for anyone wanting to head west from Newbury).

1V68 1403 Motherwell to Plymouth (22:47 from EXD)
1Z98 2320 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth

that latter connects from 21:00??
Yes, looks like it has been arranged at short notice (presumably a unit crewed by a West driver).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 22, 2018, 21:29:07
An interesting comment on the WNXX Forum....

Quote
It's not just the cost of the cancellation and good will of the customer, GWR have to still pay for the class 800s they don't use if Hitachi have made the train available. For example, today Hitachi provided 27 units but we only needed 21 of them - that's 6 units paid for that didn't turn a wheel....


Title: Re: Cancellations Due To Crew Shortages
Post by: ellendune on April 22, 2018, 21:42:39
If GWR crew don't want to work there are hundreds of unemployed who will.

What you fail to appreciate is that you cannot just put a card in the job centre and sift through the numerous applicant to get a train driver.  This is a skill in short supply so the boot is on the other foot. Rail companies must compete for drivers by offering them the best terms (no just money) and if they train them (as GWR do) they must compete to keep them. There is a limit to how many they can train as they need senior drivers to be involved and this is difficult when they are short of drivers.

The government makes the same mistakes over doctors.

Mods consider merging with the more general topic of shortage of drivers http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.0;topicseen (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18719.0;topicseen)

Also look at the letter from Mr Hopwood to CPLC CLPG at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19697.msg236334#msg236334 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19697.msg236334#msg236334)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 21:42:59
I’m guessing there will be issues with HSS services starting from Plymouth tomorrow morning if all drivers have made themselves unavailable tonight.

We're straight off one set of changes onto another ... 4 day blockage Westbury to Theale ... which is suspect changes the number of crews needed (certainly less train drivers and more bus driver needed for TransWilts services!)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 21:48:42
The 2100 to Exeter is calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary but there still doesn't seem to be anything for Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth (or for anyone wanting to head west from Newbury).

1V68 1403 Motherwell to Plymouth (22:47 from EXD)
1Z98 2320 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth

that latter connects from 21:00??
Yes, looks like it has been arranged at short notice (presumably a unit crewed by a West driver).

Advice is now that the 2100 PAD-Exeter St David's will go through to Plymouth & terminate there.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 21:49:37
The 2100 to Exeter is calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary but there still doesn't seem to be anything for Newton Abbot, Totnes and Plymouth (or for anyone wanting to head west from Newbury).

1V68 1403 Motherwell to Plymouth (22:47 from EXD)
1Z98 2320 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth

that latter connects from 21:00??
Yes, looks like it has been arranged at short notice (presumably a unit crewed by a West driver).

I suspect it's the same train ... 1C98 has a 2 minute "connection" into 1Z98.  Shame if it isn't and the 21:00 arrival has been delayed by the extra calls ...

Advice is now that the 2100 PAD-Exeter St David's will go through to Plymouth & terminate there.

Yep!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Zoe on April 22, 2018, 22:05:25
I suspect it's the same train ... 1C98 has a 2 minute "connection" into 1Z98.  Shame if it isn't and the 21:00 arrival has been delayed by the extra calls ...
Indeed so, I just realized that it is pathed as an HST.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 22, 2018, 22:37:10
I’m pleased to see something was sorted so that the 2100 can run through to Plymouth so at least everyone stuck at Paddington will get home even if it’s later than planned.

In other news, I noticed the Par-Penzance shuttle service was being operated by a single 153 instead of an HST because of shortage of traincrew. That must have been interesting at times today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2018, 22:41:37
More fun & games now at Bristol Paekway....2037 Paddington-Port Talbot terminated short with only a few minutes notice, everyone (including lots of exhausted marathon runners) turfed off and told onward transport had been arranged......only problem being.....No-one had told Bristol Parkway....and no transport arranged.


Title: Re: Cancellations Due To Crew Shortages
Post by: ChrisB on April 23, 2018, 09:51:20
Can a Mod correct the typo please - its [b[CLPG[/b] CLPG


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on April 23, 2018, 16:55:01
Can a mod also fix ChrisB's attempt to bold CLPG?

 :P


Title: Re: Cancellations Due To Crew Shortages
Post by: grahame on April 23, 2018, 18:41:34
CPLC

[b[CLPG[/b]

Can a mod also fix ChrisB's attempt to bold CLPG?

 :P

I am the world's wurst at spelling!   Think I have done it


Title: Re: Cancellations Due To Crew Shortages
Post by: Timmer on April 23, 2018, 21:54:55
It was the London Marathon today - hottest on record. Thousands took part. And it was great to see so many GWR crew running too. Wonder how much they raised for their charities. So many crew were running that GWR had to cancel no end of services to / from Paddington and West. What a great company GWR is - er - well actually perhaps not. Thank's for all of the disruption today. If GWR crew don't want to work there are hundreds of unemployed who will.
Tonight’s BBC Points West ran a story about the problems marathon runners had getting home yesterday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b027rk/points-west-evening-news-23042018
Item starts at 5.10
Expires 7pm 24/04


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ray951 on April 23, 2018, 22:16:51
There was chaos at Oxford tonight due to shortage of crew and train issues.
The 1707 to Reading was cancelled after we had boarded due to an issue with the train, this had a knock on effect with the 1716 to Bournemouth and the 1731 to Paddington both arriving late.
This was then compounded by  the 1731 arriving in P3 and no driver being available, the announcer said that the driver was arriving on the 1723 to Great Malvern which itself was 13 late. I then waited until 1755 but the driver still hadn't turned up and of course this meant that no trains could go towards Didcot as Platform 3  was blocked.
I then went and caught the bus home.
In the meantime the 1731 to Paddington was cancelled as well as the 1735 to Didcot.
The 1743  XC to Guilford reversed in and out of P1.
The 1810 to Reading left at 1813 and was due to be formed of 2 coaches, and if that was the case then people must have been left on the platform.
The next train to Paddington was the 1806 which left at 1834.

This is the 2nd time in a week it has taken to me over 90 minutes to get home. It is also the 2nd time this year that I have had to resort to the bus, have never needed to in the last 9 years I have been commuting to Oxford.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 29, 2018, 16:19:56
Cancellations to services between Swansea and Carmarthen
Due to a shortage of train drivers between Swansea and Carmarthen:
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 20:00 29/04.
Further Information
Owing to a shortage of train drivers there will be no GWR train services between Swansea and Carmarthen, and return, operating today. Road transport will oprate instead.
Note that those train services on this route which are operated by Arriva Trains Wales are not affected and will operate as scheduled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 29, 2018, 16:45:18
A much better day all round for cancellations today, though of course holiday season doesn't start for a few weeks so I would expect things to be a little better now Easter is out of the way at weekends, but steadily worsening from June onwards until early September.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 29, 2018, 17:25:27
A much better day all round for cancellations today, though of course holiday season doesn't start for a few weeks so I would expect things to be a little better now Easter is out of the way at weekends, but steadily worsening from June onwards until early September.

Bit better as you say but not really BBQ weather today!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 29, 2018, 17:53:21
There was chaos at Oxford tonight due to shortage of crew and train issues.
The 1707 to Reading was cancelled after we had boarded due to an issue with the train, this had a knock on effect with the 1716 to Bournemouth and the 1731 to Paddington both arriving late.
This was then compounded by  the 1731 arriving in P3 and no driver being available, the announcer said that the driver was arriving on the 1723 to Great Malvern which itself was 13 late. I then waited until 1755 but the driver still hadn't turned up and of course this meant that no trains could go towards Didcot as Platform 3  was blocked.
I then went and caught the bus home.
In the meantime the 1731 to Paddington was cancelled as well as the 1735 to Didcot.
The 1743  XC to Guilford reversed in and out of P1.
The 1810 to Reading left at 1813 and was due to be formed of 2 coaches, and if that was the case then people must have been left on the platform.
The next train to Paddington was the 1806 which left at 1834.

This is a classic case of stupid rostering of drivers.  At a key location like Oxford where one issue can rapidly cause chaos due to the inflexible layout you have the driver that brings the 17:31 in from Hereford being relieved by a driver who is due to arrive just minutes earlier on the 17:23 from Paddington as you state in your post.  So, any slight delay on that leaves the 17:31 in the platform without a driver, as it takes a good five minutes to walk from the end of the platform, over the bridge and to the other end of the other platform.  A remarkably similar set of circumstances occurred the week previous.

Added to that, the driver that brings the 17:31 in from Hereford is then due to work the 17:35 to Didcot, so if the 17:31 is late there's no way the 17:35 can be brought in to depart first unless you've got a spare driver hanging around.  However, the lack of an AOM (Area Operations Manager) at Oxford has meant the 17:35 set has been brought into the platform on several occasions with no driver to take it forward, so again you have a blocked platform until you can get it out of the way again.  Net result of GWR looking shambolic again.

The good news, despite this complete lack of organisation and common sense rostering, is that come the end of the summer blockade the layout at Oxford will become much more flexible and finally allow departures towards the Didcot direction from Platform 4.  Also, after nearly a year without an AOM the post has just been restored, so the resolution of such issues should be much quicker and they should be less likely to happen in the first place.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ray951 on April 29, 2018, 21:05:49
Thanks for the update ii, and I don't think it is a case of looking shambolic it is shambolic.
Having said that let's hope the combination of the AOM and completion of the signalling upgrade will bring some much needed order to the chaos. Although obviously a change to the rostering could easily solve it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CJB666 on April 30, 2018, 09:20:22
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5672149/Pensioner-72-shames-Great-Western-Railway-finds-half-trains-late-cancelled.html

It's not Great, Western! Pensioner, 72, shames rail firm after he finds HALF of the trains that passed through his station are either late or cancelled

* Tim Brown kept a diary of a week's services scheduled at Worcester Shrub Hill
* He found 164 of the 379 scheduled GWR services were either cancelled or late
* Mr Brown, who lost a leg in a car crash, said he was nervous about using GWR

By James Salmon Transport Editor For The Daily Mail

A rail enthusiast has found that almost half of daily rail services passing through his local station are cancelled or delayed.

Tim Brown kept a diary of a week’s services scheduled to terminate or pass through Worcester Shrub Hill station.

The 72-year-old found 164 of the 379 scheduled Great Western Railway services were either cancelled or more than ten minutes late.

Mr Brown, who lost one of his legs in a car crash when he was 18, said GWR’s service was so unreliable he was nervous about using it.

Tim Brown, 72, found that 164 of the 379 scheduled Great Western Railway services were either cancelled or more than ten minutes late

He said: ‘To put it politely, the service is absolutely awful. I’m disabled and do not want to be stuck on a train late at night.’

On Sunday, March 11, Mr Brown recorded that 20 out of 35 trains on the North Cotswold line were delayed or cancelled.

The following day, 30 of 59 trains were delayed or cancelled. Another nine missed out certain stops. On Tuesday March 13, 26 of 59 trains were delayed or cancelled, with one arriving at Worcester Shrub Hill 56 minutes late.

Nineteen were cancelled or delayed on the Wednesday, 32 on Thursday, and 24 on Friday. On the Saturday, 13 of 49 trains were late or cancelled.

Referring to the rail operator’s slogan – ‘more seats, more trains, more adventures’ – Mr Brown said: ‘If only this were true. I would like to sample the new trains but have yet to venture out for fear of being stranded a long way from my own bed somewhere on a truncated return working between Paddington and Worcester.’


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: devonexpress on April 30, 2018, 09:33:36
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5672149/Pensioner-72-shames-Great-Western-Railway-finds-half-trains-late-cancelled.html

It's not Great, Western! Pensioner, 72, shames rail firm after he finds HALF of the trains that passed through his station are either late or cancelled

* Tim Brown kept a diary of a week's services scheduled at Worcester Shrub Hill
* He found 164 of the 379 scheduled GWR services were either cancelled or late
* Mr Brown, who lost a leg in a car crash, said he was nervous about using GWR

By James Salmon Transport Editor For The Daily Mail

A rail enthusiast has found that almost half of daily rail services passing through his local station are cancelled or delayed.

Tim Brown kept a diary of a week’s services scheduled to terminate or pass through Worcester Shrub Hill station.

The 72-year-old found 164 of the 379 scheduled Great Western Railway services were either cancelled or more than ten minutes late.

Mr Brown, who lost one of his legs in a car crash when he was 18, said GWR’s service was so unreliable he was nervous about using it.

Tim Brown, 72, found that 164 of the 379 scheduled Great Western Railway services were either cancelled or more than ten minutes late

He said: ‘To put it politely, the service is absolutely awful. I’m disabled and do not want to be stuck on a train late at night.’

On Sunday, March 11, Mr Brown recorded that 20 out of 35 trains on the North Cotswold line were delayed or cancelled.

The following day, 30 of 59 trains were delayed or cancelled. Another nine missed out certain stops. On Tuesday March 13, 26 of 59 trains were delayed or cancelled, with one arriving at Worcester Shrub Hill 56 minutes late.

Nineteen were cancelled or delayed on the Wednesday, 32 on Thursday, and 24 on Friday. On the Saturday, 13 of 49 trains were late or cancelled.

Referring to the rail operator’s slogan – ‘more seats, more trains, more adventures’ – Mr Brown said: ‘If only this were true. I would like to sample the new trains but have yet to venture out for fear of being stranded a long way from my own bed somewhere on a truncated return working between Paddington and Worcester.’


Whilst the service might be going through a bad patch due to the transition to new stock, why is the Daily Mail trying to break up the franchise with bad headlines, and seriously how much did this guy get paid to stand on a station, have his photo taken and say a load of stuff with no proof.

Yes i agree GWR's performance on many routes has been bad recently, on other routes its been mad for a long time, however that down to other reasons as well(old signalling, fatalities, vandalism, overcrowding).   When it comes down to it a lot of it is down to under funding by the government, who have let a lot of the issue carry on for 20 years, forcing GWR to keep 40 year old HST's rather than purchase new rolling stock(something they did try with the 180 Adelante). Overall GWR have had to do as best as they can with old rolling stock, old and tired track & signalling.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on April 30, 2018, 09:44:08
Whilst the service might be going through a bad patch due to the transition to new stock, why is the Daily Mail trying to break up the franchise with bad headlines, and seriously how much did this guy get paid to stand on a station, have his photo taken and say a load of stuff with no proof.

Yes i agree GWR's performance on many routes has been bad recently, on other routes its been mad for a long time, however that down to other reasons as well(old signalling, fatalities, vandalism, overcrowding).   When it comes down to it a lot of it is down to under funding by the government, who have let a lot of the issue carry on for 20 years, forcing GWR to keep 40 year old HST's rather than purchase new rolling stock(something they did try with the 180 Adelante). Overall GWR have had to do as best as they can with old rolling stock, old and tired track & signalling.

I'm going to have to challenge you on part of your last statement.  More than 70% of the signalling equipment on our area is less than 10 years old, with some less than 5 years old.  Its not age thats the problem, its how you look after it.  Having worked for 50% of my 50 year long career in S&T maintenance I can tell you its boring, repetitive, stuff.  It requires attention to detail and dedication.  Trouble is it doesn't score points in NR because most managers there are only interested in the 'shiny new things'.  A bit of 'Back to Basics' is required to get on top of the problem.  Generally we are finding now that significant signalling failures are occuring almost daily, and I noted that new kit at Bristol failed the other day after only a week and a half in use!

...anyway, back to train crew shortages....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on April 30, 2018, 09:47:27
There are certainly failings, but it seems to me that the NEW signalling in the Reading area is a major source of delays, especially if it rains.
I think it has been reluctantly admitted that the NEW trains have yet to meet the hoped for standards of reliability.

So it may not be a case of old equipment.

I consider that the failure to engage, train, and retain sufficient staff to run the advertised service is entirely a GWR problem.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 30, 2018, 10:00:07
Well we've been wondering why the press hasn't been reporting on the issues facing GWR passengers...well they are now!

I really wouldn't want to be travelling to the South West or South Wales this bank holiday weekend with the reduction of services to/from London due to work taking place at Slough. I think you are better to travel to Reading and change there for Waterloo. Yes takes longer but more chance of travelling in comfort.

All it takes for just a couple of the through to/from London trains to be cancelled owing to crew shortage for some unpleasant overcrowding or people being left behind at stations to occur.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 05, 2018, 06:28:23
.....welcome to the long weekend. Don't plan on travelling by rail.....


Cancellations to services between Swindon and London Paddington
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and London Paddington fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled or diverted to and from Reading. London Paddington will not be served. Disruption is expected until 23:59 07/05.
Customer Advice
It has not been possible to resource sufficient additional road transport to operate between Reading and London due to other replacement road transport commitments. Therefore, the following advice stands for customers travelling to or from London:

Travel towards London Paddington:

A limited, non-stop train service will operate between Swindon and London Paddington. These will principally be services that originated in the West of England, Devon and Cornwall. These services are anticipated to be exceptionally busy; customers are strongly advised to only travel on these services if they already hold a reservation.

Train services originally advertised to operate South Wales - Swindon - London Paddington will be diverted from Swindon and terminate at Reading. They will not serve Oxford or London Paddington.

Upon arrival at Reading customers are advised to travel on the XX06 Reading to Basingstoke service; and change at Basingstoke for South Western Railways' XX30 or XX35 Basingstoke to London Waterloo services.

South Western Railway have kindly agreed to accept GWR tickets for these journeys.

Due to rugby at Twickenham customers are strongly advised NOT to attempt to travel on direct South Western Railways services from Reading to London Waterloo.

---

Travel from London Paddington:

A limited; non-stop service will operate between London Paddington and Swindon. These services will principally go on to destinations in the West of England, Devon and Cornwall. These services are anticipated to be exceptionally busy; customers are strongly advised to only travel on these services if they already hold a reservation.

Train services originally advertised to operate London Paddington - Swindon - South Wales will be amended to start from Reading. There will be no direct services from London or Oxford to South Wales.

Customers travelling from London to South Wales are advised to make their way to London Waterloo and travel on the XX39 South Western Railways service from London Waterloo to Poole; change at Basingstoke for Great Western Railways' XX40 service from Basingstoke to Reading; and change at Reading for onward rail connections.

South Western Railway have kindly agreed to accept GWR tickets for these journeys.

Due to rugby at Twickenham customers are strongly advised NOT to attempt to travel on direct South Western Railways services from London Waterloo to Reading.

---
Additional Information
Due to high volumes of engineering works across the country; delays have been encountered in the Railway Industry producing timetables for this bank holiday weekend (Saturday 5th to Monday 7th May).

As a result, this has affected Great Western Railway's ability to prepare, plan and run many of the train services initially advertised to run over the weekend. Insufficient train crew are available to meet the demands of the timetable originally planned to run. It will also impact the quality of information available on some journey planners used by customers.

Customers travelling between Swindon and Reading, and Swindon and London Paddington on Saturday should only travel if absolutely necessary. Customers who decide not to travel on these routes will be eligible for a full refund of their fares; and should visit our refunds page for further details.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 05, 2018, 07:10:21
Any regular traveller reading today's excuses on Journeycheck will think huh !

When do HSS services regularly change drivers at Swindon ?

Would it not have been better to state that due to insufficient drivers being available with the route knowledge to drive the services to Paddington (or Marylebone) planned to operate via Oxford will now operate to Reading where those services will terminate (and passengers for Paddington can chance their luck from there).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on May 05, 2018, 07:28:28
Will Mark Hopwood make an appearance
?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on May 05, 2018, 07:36:07
Had planned to go to Didcot today with trainer leaving Temple Meads at 0940. The two following trains at 1040 and 1140 are cancelled. Don't fancy sharing a rammed train with pi55ed and pi55ed off rugby fans going to Twickenham who have had an early morning scramble for the ONLY train that will get them to the match in time. The 1642 return from Didcot is also cancelled. Leaving there at 1542 cuts the day short, while 1742 is rather a long time to wait after the 2 minutes of joy and discovery that is the rest of Didcot.

See how it looks on Monday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 05, 2018, 07:44:54
UNBELIEVABLE! NO actually it’s not. Shocking and quite frankly poor. I thought there was a problem with RTT when I looked up trains today between Bath and London and most had disappeared as they originate from South Wales, then I came here.

So yesterday we had Mark Hopwood having a go at Network Rail for not finalising trains until last Wednesday only for his company to come along and do this. Hmmmmm.

Could be some serious issues at Swindon and Reading today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 05, 2018, 07:51:21
Had planned to go to Didcot today with trainer leaving Temple Meads at 0940. The two following trains at 1040 and 1140 are cancelled. Don't fancy sharing a rammed train with pi55ed and pi55ed off rugby fans going to Twickenham who have had an early morning scramble for the ONLY train that will get them to the match in time. The 1642 return from Didcot is also cancelled. Leaving there at 1542 cuts the day short, while 1742 is rather a long time to wait after the 2 minutes of joy and discovery that is the rest of Didcot.

See how it looks on Monday.


So how will the rugby fans with tickets for the match fare when they get to BRI and find there is no train that will get them to the match in time for kick-off.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 05, 2018, 07:52:15
This really is a new low on the GW mainline and Grayling needs to get a grip. GWR and Network Rail Western region aren’t fit for purpose.

My sympathies with anyone travelling to/from London or Twickenham today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on May 05, 2018, 08:07:17
So how will the rugby fans with tickets for the match fare when they get to BRI and find there is no train that will get them to the match in time for kick-off ?

Given how tanked up, some of them will be, I hope BTP have got horses and riot shields on standby. A few water cannon ( apply to Boris Johnson) might be useful too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on May 05, 2018, 08:23:19
Chiltern have apparently provided 18,754 extra seats between Oxford and Marylebone this weekend ... difficulty might be getting to Oxford. Also have Women's FA Cup Final at Wembley today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 05, 2018, 08:35:20
So how will the rugby fans with tickets for the match fare when they get to BRI and find there is no train that will get them to the match in time for kick-off ?

Given how tanked up, some of them will be, I hope BTP have got horses and riot shields on standby. A few water cannon ( apply to Boris Johnson) might be useful too.

I suspect that there will be a number of very wealthy taxi drivers by the end of the day, with receipts and compensation claim forms landing on GWRs desks early next week.

There'll be no need for horses or riot shields, these are rugby folks remember, many of whom will be current/ex servicemen to boot, not football morons.

There's also all the Exeter Chiefs fans travelling to the Stoop for their match with Quins too of course.

Now if it was Swansea v Chelsea today.......it may have got interesting.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 05, 2018, 08:53:26
So how will the rugby fans with tickets for the match fare when they get to BRI and find there is no train that will get them to the match in time for kick-off ?

Given how tanked up, some of them will be, I hope BTP have got horses and riot shields on standby. A few water cannon ( apply to Boris Johnson) might be useful too.

As others have posted, rugby fans are less liable to bad behaviour than are football fans, in general.
However I do perceive some risk of disorder even from rugby fans if provoked to the extent that looks likely.
It would seem that fans will get as far as Bristol, but then find no effective service to Reading.

In my view, GWR should be held liable for consequential losses in this case, such as a refund of the money paid for rugby tickets, and the costs of taxis.
GWR and other TOCs are very keen to extract penalty fares from passengers who have "made a mistake", perhaps this should work both ways ? Since GWR have "made a mistake" by not running an effective service, they should consider a flat rate penalty payment of say £80 to each passenger affected. This should be in addition to refunding wasted tickets to matches and useless railway tickets. Just as a penalty fare is in addition to payment of the fare evaded.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 05, 2018, 09:14:36
I’m on the 07:27 from London Paddington to Plymouth.  We stopped at Oxford to change crew and am
Now approaching Swindon.

It’s busy but by no means overcrowded.  However suspect later services will be different.

Apparently yesterday around 400 travelled to Penzance for the Gig racing festival on the Isles of Scilly.  I wonder how their travel was.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 05, 2018, 09:26:43
UNBELIEVABLE! NO actually it’s not. Shocking and quite frankly poor. I thought there was a problem with RTT when I looked up trains today between Bath and London and most had disappeared as they originate from South Wales, then I came here.

So yesterday we had Mark Hopwood having a go at Network Rail for not finalising trains until last Wednesday only for his company to come along and do this. Hmmmmm.

Could be some serious issues at Swindon and Reading today.

Presumably they could not do a crew roster until there was some sort of timetable, which might have been another reason for Mr Hopwood's letter. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on May 05, 2018, 09:50:00
UNBELIEVABLE! NO actually it’s not. Shocking and quite frankly poor. I thought there was a problem with RTT when I looked up trains today between Bath and London and most had disappeared as they originate from South Wales, then I came here.

So yesterday we had Mark Hopwood having a go at Network Rail for not finalising trains until last Wednesday only for his company to come along and do this. Hmmmmm.

Could be some serious issues at Swindon and Reading today.


Have read elsewhere that GWR didn't receive the Timetable for today from Network Rail until 1700 last night.    How can GWR be expected to plan accordingly.

Presumably they could not do a crew roster until there was some sort of timetable, which might have been another reason for Mr Hopwood's letter. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 05, 2018, 09:51:31
There'll be no need for horses or riot shields, these are rugby folks remember, many of whom will be current/ex servicemen to boot, not football morons.


As others have posted, rugby fans are less liable to bad behaviour than are football fans, in general.
However I do perceive some risk of disorder even from rugby fans if provoked to the extent that looks likely.

Rugby fans apparently are more of a nuisance to the British Transport Police than football fans.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 05, 2018, 09:54:52
Presumably they could not do a crew roster until there was some sort of timetable, which might have been another reason for Mr Hopwood's letter. 
But surely they knew they were going to run an hourly service to/from South Wales using a similar timetable to times previous when services have operated via Oxford? It’s been on RTT for a few weeks just with big gaps in the timetable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 05, 2018, 09:59:38
UNBELIEVABLE! NO actually it’s not. Shocking and quite frankly poor. I thought there was a problem with RTT when I looked up trains today between Bath and London and most had disappeared as they originate from South Wales, then I came here.

So yesterday we had Mark Hopwood having a go at Network Rail for not finalising trains until last Wednesday only for his company to come along and do this. Hmmmmm.

Could be some serious issues at Swindon and Reading today.

Presumably they could not do a crew roster until there was some sort of timetable, which might have been another reason for Mr Hopwood's letter. 

I disagree. Shortage of train crew is a serious and ongoing problem. It would therefore have made sense to roster ALL AVIALABLE train crew, even if the exact duties required of each worker were not known.

I hope that GWR have not been so incompetent as leave otherwise available crew sitting at home, whilst cancelling numerous trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 05, 2018, 10:08:46
Presumably they could not do a crew roster until there was some sort of timetable, which might have been another reason for Mr Hopwood's letter. 

Twitter message from GWR supports this view.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 05, 2018, 10:10:56
Lets hope the Transport Select Committee gets hold of this and drags in all of the responsible NR and GWR managers and gives them all a good spanking.... :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 05, 2018, 10:16:09
I disagree. Shortage of train crew is a serious and ongoing problem. It would therefore have made sense to roster ALL AVIALABLE train crew, even if the exact duties required of each worker were not known.

I hope that GWR have not been so incompetent as leave otherwise available crew sitting at home, whilst cancelling numerous trains.

Have read elsewhere that GWR didn't receive the Timetable for today from Network Rail until 1700 last night.    How can GWR be expected to plan accordingly.

And we are told he has already been told by DfT to cancel trains in order to speed up the delayed (by NR and DfT) crew training on IETs and 387s.  Planning is something that has to be done in advance if drivers are to get an appropriate amount of rest to ensure that they can safely drive. Rostering on the hoof will never be the best that would have been possible!

  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 05, 2018, 10:19:26
I think there is more to this than we are being told. I’m not buying these explanations as we know how spun out they are.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on May 05, 2018, 10:49:41
Also buried away in the detail is that the trains still running from Maidenhead to Oxford and beyond are nearly all 2 or 3 carriage turbos.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 05, 2018, 12:20:34
Also buried away in the detail is that the trains still running from Maidenhead to Oxford and beyond are nearly all 2 or 3 carriage turbos.

Why ? they can hardly claim shortage of stock with the present number of cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 05, 2018, 14:11:46
Hearing reports from pals who are trying to get to Twickenham, it's absolutely hopeless. People giving up and going home. Disabled veterans unable to attend one of the highlights of their year due to the incompetence of GWR and the rest of the hopeless railway crowd. All involved in this farce should be ashamed of themselves.  The likes of Hopwood should meet these guys and explain themselves/ apologise in person.

Still, nice BBQ weather for those who aren't working. Wonder how many trains will run tomorrow?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 05, 2018, 15:55:57
Whilst it would seem that network rail have again been incompetent in not announcing what trains could run until the day before, I still feel that GWR are substantially to blame for the ongoing failure to engage sufficient staff to run the advertised service.

If GWR cant run the NORMAL advertised service for want of staff, then I doubt that they would suddenly have found enough staff for today, no matter how far in advance network rail had announced what could run.

I suspect that yesterday, that GWR knew that they would again be very short of staff for today, and that the press release by Mark Hopwood was a belated attempt to deflect blame.

Yet again "the railway" have come out of this very badly.

I have made numerous trips on FGW and later on GWR and these have been generally enjoyable, BUT these trips were often discretionary, almost always first class, and were carefully planned to avoid weekends, bank holidays, engineering works and anything else that could lead to a fiasco.

My generally favourable experiences are therefore not an accurate reflection of the service in general.
 Today seems to be worse than an already very poor "new normal"

P.S. fine weather is forecast tomorrow, good barbecue weather  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: 1st fan on May 05, 2018, 16:14:06
I now need to be in London this evening and for the rest of the weekend. As is usual when there's any sort of RRBS on the Cotswold line or beyond I'm only going to use the train as far as Oxford. I will walk to the Oxford Tube and get that the rest of the way. It's normally inconvenient but I'm actually needing to be close to one of the OT stops so a bonus in this case.  There's more computing power in my phone than they had to put a man on the moon and we're now in the 21st century but this sort of thing still happens?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lordgoata on May 05, 2018, 21:20:17
Also buried away in the detail is that the trains still running from Maidenhead to Oxford and beyond are nearly all 2 or 3 carriage turbos.

Yup, can confirm that as I was stuck at Reading for the best part of an hour while the whole "timetable" fell to bits due to Didcot signalling, yet again. Some ancient old turbos that sounded like they had flat spots on every bloody wheel. Everything going Maidenhead to Oxford/Banbury was 2 or 3 car, most delayed by 20-30 minutes during the time I was there this afternoon.

P*ss up and brewery springs to mind.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 05, 2018, 22:52:17
Anybody care to hazard a guess on the number of cancellations tomorrow? Aside from the well documented NR/GWR SNAFU this weekend, it's a Sunday, a bank holiday weekend and perfect BBQ weather......might even get weather related problems with the tracks too!

Come to think of it, may be easier to put a figure on the number of services which WILL run! 🤔


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 05, 2018, 23:04:20
Anybody care to hazard a guess on the number of cancellations tomorrow? Aside from the well documented NR/GWR SNAFU this weekend, it's a Sunday, a bank holiday weekend and perfect BBQ weather......might even get weather related problems with the tracks too!

Come to think of it, may be easier to put a figure on the number of services which WILL run! 🤔
My guess will be services terminating at Oxford and everyone piling on Chiltern trains to get to/from London. It’s a different timetable (if we can still call them that) tomorrow compared with Saturday and Monday hence my guess that some trains stop/start at Oxford.

Hope for those travelling that I’m wrong.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: 1st fan on May 06, 2018, 01:03:35
I had my first trip on a (34 minute late) IET today amidst the chaos today. It wasn't very full but I didn't see whether it was a 5 or 5+5 train. The seats are too hard for me but the armrest by the window does move making sleep easier. Despite the train running slowly there was no sign of the train manager or the trolley from Moreton all the way through to Oxford.

I therefore needed to purchase my ticket at the Oxford barrier. I then asked if they had a compensation form as my train was more than 40 minutes late by the time we finally arrived. Bloke on the gate quite dismissive until I showed him the delay on my phone. Pointed me in the direction of the information desk where I was given a form. Oxford Tube was then smooth going all the way into London.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2018, 04:01:02
Anybody care to hazard a guess on the number of cancellations tomorrow? Aside from the well documented NR/GWR SNAFU this weekend, it's a Sunday, a bank holiday weekend and perfect BBQ weather......might even get weather related problems with the tracks too!

Come to think of it, may be easier to put a figure on the number of services which WILL run! 🤔

More optimistic from the top of GWR.com:

Quote
Urgent Timetable update 6 May.  Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised

Confirmed by clicking on that as a link which tells me

Quote
Urgent timetable update Saturday 5 May

Customers travelling between Swindon and Reading, and Swindon and London Paddington on Saturday 5 May and Monday 7 May should only travel if absolutely necessary. Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 06, 2018, 06:10:45
The Severn Riviera Express is taking the hit today along with my locals between Gloucester and Bristol.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 06, 2018, 06:35:39
Rather misleading to state that services today will operate "as advertised" It would have been more accurate to say that services today "will be subject to the normal weekend levels of cancellations and part cancellations"

Well over 50 cancellations and part cancellations so far, almost all due to staff shortage.

And a warning not to travel on bank holiday Monday unless "absolutely necessary" well that that is helpful for customers who have unwisely decided to take a holiday over a holiday weekend, and who wish to return.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 06, 2018, 06:44:43
Now over 60 cancellations and part cancellations.
But no need to worry, "there is a generally good service" according to the top of the GWR site.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2018, 06:48:26
More optimistic from the top of GWR.com:

Quote
Urgent Timetable update 6 May.  Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised

Confirmed by clicking on that as a link which tells me

Quote
.... Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised.

Advertising is, however, changing ... I appreciate this is just 4 out of 45 cancellations, with 17 other services cut short.   Not been through them all, but mostly are "shortage of train crew".    Most losses are Bristol based / scheduled to go no nearer to London that Swindon or Salisbury, so for people in the Thames Valley it may be "as advertised" ... whichever advert that is.

Quote
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:28 Swindon to Westbury due 18:11
17:28 Swindon to Westbury due 18:11 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 06, 2018, 08:31:10
Indeed, very much the turn of local West services to take the hit today with IC services looking much better today.

Slight concern the 1610 from Weymouth is starting at Westbury this evening. Have a feeling the Heart of Wessex line is going to be very busy today. There was a report of not being able to board trains yesterday such was the demand.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2018, 08:44:17
More optimistic from the top of GWR.com:

Quote
Urgent Timetable update 6 May.  Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised

Confirmed by clicking on that as a link which tells me

Quote
.... Services on Sunday 6 May will operate as advertised.

Advertising is, however, changing ... I appreciate this is just 4 out of 45 cancellations, with 17 other services cut short.   Not been through them all, but mostly are "shortage of train crew".    Most losses are Bristol based / scheduled to go no nearer to London that Swindon or Salisbury, so for people in the Thames Valley it may be "as advertised" ... whichever advert that is.

Quote
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05
16:20 Westbury to Swindon due 17:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

17:28 Swindon to Westbury due 18:11
17:28 Swindon to Westbury due 18:11 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:22 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

The Thames Valley "service" to London today involves a bus from Maidenhead to High Wycombe and then a train to Marylebone, at least Chiltern are more reliable I guess.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 06, 2018, 09:22:51
Quote
The Thames Valley "service" to London today involves a bus from Maidenhead to High Wycombe and then a train to Marylebone, at least Chiltern are more reliable I guess.

I suppose the bus journey to High Wycombe from Maidenhead is shorter than from Maidenhead to Ealing Broadway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 06, 2018, 09:29:46
Quote
The Thames Valley "service" to London today involves a bus from Maidenhead to High Wycombe and then a train to Marylebone, at least Chiltern are more reliable I guess.

I suppose the bus journey to High Wycombe from Maidenhead is shorter than from Maidenhead to Ealing Broadway.

Maidenhead to High Wycombe is another of those broken rail links that should never have been broken ... along with Bere Alston to Crediton (gone 50 years and a day) and Oxford to Cambridge.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on May 06, 2018, 10:11:24
It would certainly save me and GWR a lot of money in taxi refunds if the link still existed. It would also make Marlow semi-accessible and greatly reduce the number of residents who drive to either Maidenhead or the Met/Central Line on a daily basis.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7575 on May 06, 2018, 15:59:03
Maidenhead to High Wycombe is another of those broken rail links that should never have been broken ... along with Bere Alston to Crediton (gone 50 years and a day) and Oxford to Cambridge.
The more I read about this, separate Oxford to Bletchley and Bletchley to Cambridge services appear to have been the normal operation, it was hardly ever a through service while open.  I think the use of the term Varsity Line conjures up some sort of end to end traffic that was more about modern rose tinted hindsight than historically accurate...

Paul


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2018, 06:52:34
"Meltdown Monday"

The day the rail industry belatedly planned engineering works and scheduled trains ... then within hours of them being due to run changed them again because they find (taken by surprise?) that they don't have the crew available.

Is this a lack of joined up thinking, a false dream of a a great crew room full of staff, incompetence, or planned to let people down in two more gentle steps rather than one big step?

Quote
Other Train Service Updates
06:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:02
07:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:02
08:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 13:02
08:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 13:50
09:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 14:02
09:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 14:50
10:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 15:02
10:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:50
11:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 16:02
11:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:50
12:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 17:02
12:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:51
13:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:02
13:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 18:51
14:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:02
14:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:50
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:02
15:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:50
16:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:02
16:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:50
17:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:02
17:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:50
18:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:02
18:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 23:50
19:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:52
21:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 02:16

Quote
In each case

14:57 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:50 will be started from Reading.
It will no longer call at London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

and customer advise

Quote
Cancellations to services between Swindon and London Paddington
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and London Paddington fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or diverted to and from Reading. London Paddington will not be served. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
It has not been possible to resource sufficient additional road transport to operate between Reading and London due to other replacement road transport commitments. Therefore, the following advice stands for customers travelling to or from London:

Travel towards London Paddington:

A limited, non-stop train service will operate between Swindon and London Paddington. These will principally be services that originated in the West of England, Devon and Cornwall. These services are anticipated to be exceptionally busy; customers are strongly advised to only travel on these services if they already hold a reservation.

The majority of train services originally advertised to operate South Wales - Swindon - London Paddington will be diverted from Swindon and terminate at Reading. They will not serve Oxford or London Paddington.

Upon arrival at Reading customers are advised to travel on the XX05 Reading to Basingstoke service; and change at Basingstoke for South Western Railways' XX43 or XX57 Basingstoke to London Waterloo service.

The journey time from Reading to London Waterloo; including changing trains at Basingstoke is approximately 90 minutes.

South Western Railway have kindly agreed to accept GWR tickets for these journeys.
Cross Country have also kindly agreed to accept GWR tickets for journeys between Reading and Basingstoke.

---

Travel from London Paddington:

A limited, non-stop service will operate between London Paddington and Swindon. These services will principally continue to destinations in the West of England, Devon and Cornwall. These services are anticipated to be exceptionally busy; customers are strongly advised to only travel on these services if they already hold a reservation.

The majority of train services originally advertised to operate London Paddington - Swindon - South Wales will be amended to start from Reading. After the departure of the 07:57 London Paddington to Swansea there will be no direct services from London to South Wales.

Customers travelling from London to South Wales are advised to make their way to London Waterloo and travel on the XX39 South Western Railways' service from London Waterloo to Poole, and change at Basingstoke for the XX36 Great Western Railway service from Basingstoke to Reading; or the XX49 Cross Country service from Basingstoke to Manchester Piccadilly; then change at Reading for onward rail connections to South Wales departing Reading at XX20.

The journey time from London Waterloo to Reading; including change trains at Basingstoke is approximately 80 minutes.

South Western Railway and Cross Country have both kindly agreed to accept GWR tickets for these journeys.

---
Additional Information
Due to high volumes of engineering works across the country; delays have been encountered in the Railway Industry producing timetables for this bank holiday weekend (Saturday 5th to Monday 7th May).

As a result, this has affected Great Western Railway's ability to prepare, plan and run many of the train services initially advertised to run over the weekend. Insufficient train crew are available to meet the demands of the timetable originally planned to run. It has also impacted the quality of information available on some journey planners used by customers.

Customers travelling between Swindon and Reading, and Swindon and London Paddington on Monday should only travel if absolutely necessary. Customers who decide not to travel on these routes will be eligible for a full refund of their fares; and should visit out refunds page for further details.
Further Information
An update will follow within the next 2 hours.
Last Updated:07/05/2018 05:18



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 07, 2018, 07:10:11
Incompetence gets my vote Graham.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 07, 2018, 07:27:02
Why are GWR sending people via Basingstoke and not Reading-Waterloo which is running four services an hour today.

No rugby at Twickenham today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2018, 07:41:19
The more I read about this, separate Oxford to Bletchley and Bletchley to Cambridge services appear to have been the normal operation, it was hardly ever a through service while open.  I think the use of the term Varsity Line conjures up some sort of end to end traffic that was more about modern rose tinted hindsight than historically accurate...

Paul

I can recall a timetable from the latter years of the line showing around 4 services each way per day going through; doesn't sound like many at all, until you look at other service frequencies at around that time - I was looking at Pewsey the other day and that had just two trains each way per day, Barnstaple (and Ilfracombe) were two and three hour gaps, etc.   I do not have a date / reference to hand though (Physical separation from the paperwork this week!) ... will have a look next week / scan and upload if I remember or am reminded!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 07, 2018, 07:46:21
Why are GWR sending people via Basingstoke and not Reading-Waterloo which is running four services an hour today.

No rugby at Twickenham today.

May be at SWR's request - they have signalling problems near Twickenham

Quote
Due to a signalling problem between Feltham and Clapham Junction fewer trains are able to run on some lines.

What's Going On:
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed by up to 5 minutes or revised. Disruption is expected until 11:00 07/05.

What We're Doing About It:
We have been made aware of a signal failure near St Margarets which has resulted in a signal being out of use. As a result, some trains travelling from Reading towards London Waterloo will be diverted via Hounslow.

As a result, a reduced service will operate between Feltham and Clapham Junction via Richmond. Network Rail, who own and maintain the railway infrastructure, are on site working to rectify the fault. However, until the problem is fixed, trains may be delayed or altered at short notice.


To help you complete your journey, your ticket will be accepted on London Bus services between Feltham and Richmond by any reasonable route.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 07, 2018, 10:50:38
..at least its one of those good explanations as to what has gone wrong (again).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 07, 2018, 10:56:40
What it doesn't say is the signal was showing a single yellow and a green.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 07, 2018, 10:58:34
What it doesn't say is the signal was showing a single yellow and a green.....

Oh, a WSF (Wrong Side Failure).  That will take a few hours to test then..... :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 07, 2018, 11:11:43
What it doesn't say is the signal was showing a single yellow and a green.....

Oh, a WSF (Wrong Side Failure).  That will take a few hours to test then..... :P

Isn't yellow + green valid for home signal cleared and distant signal not cleared  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on May 07, 2018, 14:11:17
"Meltdown Monday"

The day the rail industry belatedly planned engineering works and scheduled trains ... then within hours of them being due to run changed them again because they find (taken by surprise?) that they don't have the crew available.

Is this a lack of joined up thinking, a false dream of a a great crew room full of staff, incompetence, or planned to let people down in two more gentle steps rather than one big step?

Train crew rosters are should be published to traincrew 5 days in advance.  Once they have been published that's it, they can't be changed, unless the driver or TM agrees.  All the company can do is change the content of the diagram within the published booking on and off times.
Traincrew also get 5 days notice as to whether their leave has been granted.  If a driver is available for rest day working and hasn't been booked out they can be asked at anytime whether they want to work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on May 07, 2018, 14:16:15
What it doesn't say is the signal was showing a single yellow and a green.....

Oh, a WSF (Wrong Side Failure).  That will take a few hours to test then..... :P

Isn't yellow + green valid for home signal cleared and distant signal not cleared  ;D

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment..... :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on May 07, 2018, 14:32:14
"Meltdown Monday"

The day the rail industry belatedly planned engineering works and scheduled trains ... then within hours of them being due to run changed them again because they find (taken by surprise?) that they don't have the crew available.

Is this a lack of joined up thinking, a false dream of a a great crew room full of staff, incompetence, or planned to let people down in two more gentle steps rather than one big step?

Train crew rosters are should be published to traincrew 5 days in advance.  Once they have been published that's it, they can't be changed, unless the driver or TM agrees.  All the company can do is change the content of the diagram within the published booking on and off times.
Traincrew also get 5 days notice as to whether their leave has been granted.  If a driver is available for rest day working and hasn't been booked out they can be asked at anytime whether they want to work.

Of course, the more a member of traincrew is willing to be moved at short notice the more they get favours back in the future.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 20, 2018, 04:09:05
A sunny Sunday is scheduled, so guess what...

Quote
08:02 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 10:54
08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
08:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 11:51
09:30 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 13:37
09:56 Cheltenham Spa to Cardiff Central due 11:36
10:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
11:13 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 14:10
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
11:22 Gloucester to Cardiff Central due 12:41
11:30 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 15:49
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 15:55
13:08 Cardiff Central to Bristol Parkway due 13:50
13:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 17:11
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:45
14:55 Bristol Parkway to Cardiff Central due 15:41
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:40
16:34 Hereford to London Paddington due 20:08
16:55 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 21:10
18:42 Swindon to Gloucester due 19:42
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
19:41 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa due 21:28
21:36 Gloucester to Cheltenham Spa due 21:45
22:01 Cheltenham Spa to Cardiff Central due 23:39
All cancelled due to driver shortage, no doubt more to follow

Along with numerous other truncations


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 20, 2018, 08:29:43
And the first Okehampton return service


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 20, 2018, 08:32:50
The list has been updated since last post was posted but suffice to say that the main headline is both North and South Cotswold lines taking a hit today. After such a great performance by GWR yesterday on the Windsor line, normal weekend service resumed today.

UPDATE add South Wales line to the list.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 20, 2018, 08:33:34
And the first Okehampton return service

Shortage of crews with current route knowledge?   ;D ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on May 20, 2018, 08:49:44
Possibly, but the other three services seem to be running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 20, 2018, 09:14:08
The first round trip to Okehampton has now been re-instated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on May 20, 2018, 09:14:40
My trip to Swindon  then will be on a voyager. Amazing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 20, 2018, 11:47:07
My trip to Swindon  then will be on a voyager. Amazing.
Yup, XC services diverted via Swindon today so extra trains between Cheltenham and Swindon will make up for the cancelled GWR ones. These might be quite busy though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 20, 2018, 12:00:58
Confirmation if travelling to/from Cheltenham to use XC, GWR tickets accepted.

Quote
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Replacement transport has been arranged to run in place of cancelled train services. Please check your journey before travel and allow extra time. Please check station signage for the pick-up location of the rail replacement coaches.
CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on May 20, 2018, 12:16:33
I went to parkway to change on a via Stroud ticket? I guess I am not meant to be?  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 20, 2018, 14:15:51
I went to parkway to change on a via Stroud ticket? I guess I am not meant to be?  ::)

We (at TransWilts) have had some interesting discussions with GWR and established that on principle passengers should have to pay no more for their journey when engineering works are going on or there's other disruption than when trains are running to the normal timetable that's published twice a year.

As a "for instance", passenger on the 11:32 from Warminster for Chippenham via Melksham - change at Westbury, arrive 12.12, normal day return fare £7.50 should be allowed to go via Bath Spa rather than having to either pay £14.00 or not arrive in Chippenham until 14:45.   

This makes common sense - passengers should not have to pay for the failure of the railway industry (for whatever reason) to run their regular services ... and for diverting them to a more expensive route.   

In practise, I did not hear of anyone being surcharges during the first (March) period of the change above - but as we have so many engineering days (over 50 this year) where the same thing applies, we persisted and got the principle established.  It has also helped passenger who's evening train was moved a few minutes earlier (and then took longer!) as the start time moved from super off peak to off peak.

If there's changes such that you cannot practically travel the normal "via" route, then I believe that the principle we have established allows you to take any route that's reasonable on the day.  I will leave it to you to judge how that works today ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on May 20, 2018, 18:43:14
Possibly, but the other three services seem to be running.

The Okehampton driver duty have been split across three diagrams meaning 3 drivers with route knowledge needed...
The guard's is still one.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 21, 2018, 06:51:04
Possibly, but the other three services seem to be running.

The Okehampton driver duty have been split across three diagrams meaning 3 drivers with route knowledge needed...
The guard's is still one.

I guess with 3 drivers there is always one free to look after the BBQ? 😉


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 26, 2018, 06:58:55
One train you really don’t want to cancel heading SW on a half term bank holiday weekend:

09:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:27 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train guards.

Wouldn’t want to be on the 10:03.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 07:46:37
Agreed - although I am surprised there are not more cancellations/short workings given it is a bank holiday weekend and half term.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on May 26, 2018, 07:47:34
I’ll let you know - as I’m on the 10:03 (with reservations in Coach B)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 26, 2018, 08:00:44
Agreed - although I am surprised there are not more cancellations/short workings given it is a bank holiday weekend and half term.
Yes it appears GWR have faired better this time around with sorting out the rosters in time for the weekend. Mind you I should wait before saying that as we haven’t seen what’s to come for Sunday yet!

A few cancellations/short workings spread around the West local part of the service which we haven’t seen much of late.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 26, 2018, 08:23:04
Agreed - although I am surprised there are not more cancellations/short workings given it is a bank holiday weekend and half term.
Yes it appears GWR have faired better this time around with sorting out the rosters in time for the weekend. Mind you I should wait before saying that as we haven’t seen what’s to come for Sunday yet!

A few cancellations/short workings spread around the West local part of the service which we haven’t seen much of late.

Not too bad (so far) apart from (inevitably) the Cotswold line, and I'd have thought GWR could make the advice a bit more helpful...……….several like this

09:18 London Paddington to Evesham due 11:19


09:18 London Paddington to Evesham due 11:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.
Further Information
Customers are advised to travel on the next available train service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on May 26, 2018, 09:55:43
Reservations on the 10:93 have been cancelled  :(

Doubling the misery from one train load of passengers to two train loads.

Railway logic at work again :(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 26, 2018, 11:48:24
Reservations on the 10:93 have been cancelled  :(

Doubling the misery from one train load of passengers to two train loads.

Railway logic at work again :(

I have very limited faith in reservations.
When is there plenty of room, you don't really need a reservation, though it is nice to have just in case.
When you really want/need a reservation due to overcrowding, then they are either not enforced or not put out.

I try to avoid rail travel at times when experience suggests that overcrowding is likely. I have however been caught out by unforeseen circumstances such as the cancellation of a previous train.
On at least two occasions my reserved seat has been occupied by someone else who has declined to move. Being reluctant to thump them, there is no option but standing.
On other occasions I have taken my reserved seat by arriving in plenty of time but still faced considerable argument from others who felt that they had a greater need.

One particular problem is when someone has booked a seat on a cancelled train , they often feel that they are entitled to that seat on the following service.

These days of course we have the added joys of the new shorter trains and what to do about reservations for the missing 5 coaches when 5 turn up instead of 5+5, or when an HST deputises for an IEP.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on May 26, 2018, 11:53:37
So .. the 10:03 ex PAD arrived full and standing with passengers - like my family - left on the platform as it departed. Bursting.

Talked to the Dispatch Manager (sterling lady trying her utmost to get people on trains) and decided that the best way to get on a train and pay for first class upgrade (for 4 adults and 2 children - gulp !).

Boarded coach L to find both L and K has no seats - and the  train manager announcing that there were no first class upgrades :(

A seat was found for my 78 year old father-in-law, so kudos points to the train crew for that.

Overall we have paid just over £1000 pounds for return tickets - for the privilege of standing/sitting on a vestibule floor.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on May 26, 2018, 12:05:49
Very poor, and increasingly common, regrettably.
Under the circumstances, I don't see what else the staff could have done.

If however GWR were running their business competently, by engaging enough staff to reliably run the advertised service, then this sort of situation would not regularly arise.


 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on May 26, 2018, 12:06:35
Oh - and the continuous scrolling messages on the platform train destination boards detailing the  better, faster, more trains railway in 2019 caused many a sarcastic comment from GWR customers.

‘All for nothing/waste of money’ if trains can’t be run to the published timetables now was the general sentiment. Perhaps a little more flowery language was used though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on May 26, 2018, 12:41:19
Most of the crew shortages today seem to be at the back end rather than drivers


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 26, 2018, 14:01:51
Agreed - although I am surprised there are not more cancellations/short workings given it is a bank holiday weekend and half term.
Yes it appears GWR have faired better this time around with sorting out the rosters in time for the weekend. Mind you I should wait before saying that as we haven’t seen what’s to come for Sunday yet!

A few cancellations/short workings spread around the West local part of the service which we haven’t seen much of late.

Thought it was too good to last, cancellations are rolling in thick and fast now............…usual reasons, no drivers/Guards.

They'd better not cancel any more Exeter services this evening with Chiefs playing at Twickenham this afternoon.

09:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:27
12:18 London Paddington to Moreton-In-Marsh due 14:00
12:28 Evesham to London Paddington due 14:30
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 14:40
12:58 Oxford to London Paddington due 14:00
13:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:20
14:40 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:38
14:48 London Paddington to Oxford due 15:50
15:00 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 17:38
15:28 Evesham to London Paddington due 17:30
15:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:14
15:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 17:40
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:28
16:18 London Paddington to Evesham due 18:23
16:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:14
16:40 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:37
16:58 Oxford to London Paddington due 18:00
17:00 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:28
17:00 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:48
17:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:35
17:25 Evesham to London Paddington due 19:30
17:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:50
18:00 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:43
18:00 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 20:40
18:18 London Paddington to Evesham due 20:23
18:48 London Paddington to Oxford due 19:50
19:20 Westbury to Southampton Central due 20:22
20:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:25
21:36 Evesham to London Paddington due 23:51
21:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth due 22:08
22:16 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:50
22:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 23:27
23:35 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:05


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 26, 2018, 14:27:49
disappointing after a reasonable start. Big gaps in IC services appearing later in the afternoon.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on May 26, 2018, 15:24:25
And a huge gap in the London - Evesham trains, with three successive ones cancelled and nothing between the 15:18 and 19:48 departures from paddington.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 15:29:14
Overall we have paid just over £1000 pounds for return tickets - for the privilege of standing/sitting on a vestibule floor.

It is frequently said on GWR’s Twitter feed that if you reserve seats and they aren’t provided and there is nowhere else to sit that you can claim compensation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 26, 2018, 15:38:06
So .. the 10:03 ex PAD arrived full and standing with passengers - like my family - left on the platform as it departed. Bursting.

Talked to the Dispatch Manager (sterling lady trying her utmost to get people on trains) and decided that the best way to get on a train and pay for first class upgrade (for 4 adults and 2 children - gulp !).

Boarded coach L to find both L and K has no seats - and the  train manager announcing that there were no first class upgrades :(

A seat was found for my 78 year old father-in-law, so kudos points to the train crew for that.

Overall we have paid just over £1000 pounds for return tickets - for the privilege of standing/sitting on a vestibule floor.
I was really concerned when I saw the 09.03 canned today of all days and with what you’ve reported with good reason. As Bob says, because your seat reservations were cancelled you can claim compensation.

I do hope your return journey is a better one.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on May 26, 2018, 17:39:32
Overall we have paid just over £1000 pounds for return tickets - for the privilege of standing/sitting on a vestibule floor.

It is frequently said on GWR’s Twitter feed that if you reserve seats and they aren’t provided and there is nowhere else to sit that you can claim compensation.

Yes, but the passenger must PROVE there was no where else to sit as invariably GWR reject such claims citing "according to our records the service you were booked on ran as scheduled".


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 17:46:35
Judging by the comments on Twitter and the fact it was showing on the Customer screens as "full & standing" that might be easier than usual.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 26, 2018, 18:15:15
Judging by the comments on Twitter and the fact it was showing on the Customer screens as "full & standing" that might be easier than usual.

Provide the drivers/guards for the trains which are advertised and it won't be an issue.......admittedly I accept  it's a radical concept  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 18:19:30
Judging by the comments on Twitter and the fact it was showing on the Customer screens as "full & standing" that might be easier than usual.

Provide the drivers/guards for the trains which are advertised and it won't be an issue.......admittedly I accept  it's a radical concept  ::)

Actually taking that a step further - provide the NAME of the guard/train manager when you put in your claim also helps.  They often give their name when giving announcements or if you see their badge during the journey or on the platform when getting off.   It is a handy way of strengthening your claim you were on the train in question.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lbraine on May 26, 2018, 20:46:37
So we finally arrived at St Ives, after a very tight connection at St Erith, just 3 hours after we should have.

Despite all the problems today I do feel compelled to call out the amazing resilience, good nature, and customer focus of the front line FGW people we met.

They didn’t hide. They didn’t shirk. No problem was to great. Reassurance was given. Generosity (dare I say at the expense of breaking company rules/policies) was the norm. Time and time again I found myself wincing at the public requests, not all delivered with the good grace shown to them by the GWR staff, only to be amazed at how compentently situations were handled.

On a day like today they made the difference. To any front line staff on this board - your efforts and professionalism were noted, and not once did your colleagues drop the ball or lower the bar on customer service.

I wish that the situations they had to deal with simply did not arise, but I suspect this will require more recognition of issues and a willingness by FGW senior management to ‘break a few rules’ and fix what is a rapidly tiresome repeatitive trend of shoddy planning.

I repeat a statement from earlier, picked up time and time again by fellow passengers : if you (FGW) CANT operate a timetable as published - change the F@*%@?n thing to one you can operate.

Expectation management 101.

[edited to fix some typos. It’s been a long day...]


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 26, 2018, 20:56:27
I know we live in an age of compensation culture but I would urge you to put in a claim while highlighting the actions of staff on the front line.  The messages are fed back to staff and you deserve something for today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 26, 2018, 21:43:34
So we finally arrived at St Ives, after a very tight connection at St Erith, just 3 hours after we should have.

Despite all the problems today I do feel compelled to call out the amazing resilience, good nature, and customer focus of the front line FGW people we met.

They didn’t hide. They didn’t shirk. No problem was to great. Reassurance was given. Generosity (dare I say at the expense of breaking company rules/policies) was the norm. Time and time again I found myself wincing at the public requests, not all delivered with the good grace shown to them by the GWR staff, only to be amazed at how compentently situations were handled.

On a day like today they made the difference. To any front line staff on this board - your efforts and professionalism were noted, and not once did your colleagues drop the ball or lower the bar on customer service.

I wish that the situations they had to deal with simply did not arise, but I suspect this will require more recognition of issues and a willingness by FGW senior management to ‘break a few rules’ and fix what is a rapidly tiresome repeatitive trend of shoddy planning.

I repeat a statement from earlier, picked up time and time again by fellow passengers : if you (FGW) CANT operate a timetable as published - change the F@*%@?n thing to one you can operate.

Expectation management 101.

[edited to fix some typos. It’s been a long day...]

Heartening that you witnessed and received excellent customer service from individual rail staff - they do exist - but don't let that detract from complaining and requesting adequate compensation in order to highlight the systemic failings within GWR - publicise it widely if you are able to.

Your experience has been appalling and no-one paying high prices for a service should have to suffer this, and we know from our experiences and other accounts on this Forum that you are one of many who regularly do at the moment through the incompetence of GWR and the railways as a whole.


I hope it doesn't detract too much from a pleasant weekend in Cornwall, notwithstanding the hours you have lost, and that the inconvenience you have suffered is reflected in the gesture which I would hope GWR will make in respect of it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 27, 2018, 15:48:11
So we finally arrived at St Ives, ....

May I wish to you all a lovely stay in a lovely town.
Although the weather has taken it's usual bank holiday expected turn, it's still a lovely place to be.
Seem to be many visitors down the far west already.
Much to see and do, despite the cost.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 27, 2018, 16:55:36
This afternoon/evenings collection of cancellations and "updates" , some of the latter being services starting/finishing so short that they might as well be the former - a lot of the long haul Devon/Cornwall services affected.

There's been a considerable deterioration as the day has gone on.

14:34 London Paddington to Evesham due 16:45
15:47 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:13
16:47 Par to Newquay due 17:39
16:57 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:22
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
17:45 Newquay to Par due 18:34
17:55 Evesham to London Paddington due 20:07
17:56 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:23
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:09
18:56 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:52
19:00 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 22:27
19:22 Par to Newquay due 20:13
20:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 22:45
20:04 Plymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:00
20:20 Newquay to Par due 21:07
22:48 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:07

20 Other Train Service Updates

11:57 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:30
12:08 Cardiff Central to Brighton due 16:44
12:30 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 17:45
13:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 18:25
13:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:42
13:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 16:52
14:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 17:51
14:37 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:19
15:00 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:05
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:25
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:28
16:04 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:33
16:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 19:52
16:10 Plymouth to London Paddington due 20:28
16:55 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 22:15
17:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 20:43
18:10 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51
19:05 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 00:20
20:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 23:41


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 27, 2018, 17:00:42
Why is the Cardiff-Portsmouth line being badly affected again? Thought we’d seen the back of crew issues on West local services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 27, 2018, 17:02:50
Those who took a day trip to Weymouth face a bus ride home tonight with the 1756 being canned.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: johoare on May 28, 2018, 22:31:04
I've just dropped my son off at Maidenhead for the 10.17 to Paddington.. It's cancelled due to lack of drivers.. Not ideal at this time of night when it was only a half  hourly service anyway..  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on May 28, 2018, 22:41:03
I've just dropped my son off at Maidenhead for the 10.17 to Paddington.. It's cancelled due to lack of drivers.. Not ideal at this time of night when it was only a half  hourly service anyway..  ???

I think some readers would be amazed by the statement 'only a half hourly service' 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: johoare on May 28, 2018, 22:45:47
I've just dropped my son off at Maidenhead for the 10.17 to Paddington.. It's cancelled due to lack of drivers.. Not ideal at this time of night when it was only a half  hourly service anyway..  ???

I think some readers would be amazed by the statement 'only a half hourly service' 

Would they be readers on the mainline into Paddington from what is basically a commuter town?  Comparing like for like hopefully?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 29, 2018, 05:37:45
I've just dropped my son off at Maidenhead for the 10.17 to Paddington.. It's cancelled due to lack of drivers.. Not ideal at this time of night when it was only a half  hourly service anyway..  ???
I think some readers would be amazed by the statement 'only a half hourly service' 
Would they be readers on the mainline into Paddington from what is basically a commuter town?  Comparing like for like hopefully?

The economy of towns like Maidenhead and its transport links to the nearby massive employment areas (Central London) have grown up in a symbiotic relationship - you would have the trains without the need to travel, and you wouldn't have the need to travel (i.e. people would not have moved there) without the fast and frequent trains - thus making it a commuter town.  And, sure, in context "only" half an hourly service is a valid descriptor.

The economy of - err - Melksham, where I live, has had a huge boost in transport links to the nearby massive employment areas (such as Swindon and Bath) in public transport.  Indeed, for the last month our bus to Bath has gone up to 3 journeys per hour (regrettably not every 20 minutes, nor with interchangeable tickets), and our train service leapt from every 12 hours to every 2 hour from 2014.   And the social and economy changes are happening - symbiotic again, with some people moving here because they can use an established train service to Swindon.  "Half hourly" we would love - though I suspect the business case based on volume is currently only there for an hourly train.  In the future, planned symbiotic growth continues, who knows?

With a service above a certain frequency,  the customer (who is King, remember) can plan his day and then work out which train fits.  Below that frequency, the customer need to choose his trains and then plan his day around them - second best in terms of temping people to use the train.  Where is the crossover?   My feeling is that it's at the point whether the frequency of service is the same as the travel time.   Thus - Melksham to Swindon, just under half an hour - so the train service needs to be "only"  ;D every half hour in order for people to plan their lives first and have the train times secondary.   Of course, traffic volume economics may preclude such a frequency away from the biggest of cities.

Interesting discussion point Jo and Ellendune ... and I fear taking us way off topic.  It is not pleasant waiting around for an extra half hour in the evening for a train hoping the next one will show up - agreed.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 03, 2018, 10:14:21
Today's cancellations so far due to driver shortage...….numbers seem to be steadily increasing as time goes by, however not as bad as recent weekends (yet!)


08:15 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 10:05
08:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 11:49
10:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
10:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 13:46
10:43 Redhill to Reading due 12:06
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:50 Reading to Redhill due 14:14
13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:50
13:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 16:40
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:45
14:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 17:40
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:40


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on June 03, 2018, 14:32:46
That's a big hit on Swansea and Cardiff - taking out three successive trains on the hourly service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 03, 2018, 14:50:31
Added to the list since TG’s post:

Pad-Bristol services reduced to hourly with xx.00 departures canned upto and including the 20:00 to WSM.
And 18:27 Pad-Bristol train cancelled.

 :(

UPDATE: What goes down must come back up. Return journeys up to London now starting to appear in the list. After a quiet start this morning with not many listed, the service has rapidly gone down hill.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 03, 2018, 15:01:09
13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:50
13:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 16:40
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:45
14:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 17:40
15:00 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:01
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:40
15:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 18:54
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:45
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:45
16:51 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:11
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:56
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:56
18:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:21
18:51 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:13
18:56 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:53
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:25
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
20:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 22:32
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:03


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 03, 2018, 20:05:08
All in all a pretty poor show once again. Sadly everyone’s attention is on what’s going at Northern and GTR and rightly so because it’s a mess but as this thread shows this problem is not confined to these two franchises.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 10, 2018, 09:37:35
Welcome to Sunday! Cancellations so far...…………. >:(

08:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
10:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:35
12:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 12:58
13:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:54
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:43
16:12 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central due 17:06
17:40 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:21
18:37 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Shrub Hill due 20:20
20:38 Worcester Shrub Hill to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:06
20:53 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 21:06
21:23 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:38
21:46 Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:07
22:01 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester due 22:11


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2018, 08:32:14
Today's cancellation collection for neatness - with thanks to Graham - possibly the worst yet, interestingly GWR's website suggests that there is "generally a good service across the network" - so clearly we are just being ungrateful.


08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
08:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 10:10
09:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:18
10:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 12:10
10:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 12:20
10:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 14:07
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 13:15
11:54 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:24
12:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 14:37
12:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 12:58
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 14:20
13:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:54
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:54
13:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 15:15
13:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 15:15
14:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
14:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 18:09
15:00 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:01
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:54
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:28
15:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:18
15:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 17:15
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:45
15:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 17:20
15:47 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:09
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:45
16:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:18
16:28 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 19:07
16:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 18:15
16:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 18:20
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:27 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:57
17:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 19:15
17:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:45
17:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 19:10
17:50 Paignton to Exmouth due 19:18
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:56
18:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:45
18:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 20:15
18:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 20:10
18:38 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:07
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
18:56 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:53
19:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:51
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:25
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
19:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 21:10
19:53 Paignton to Exmouth due 21:25
20:09 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:37
20:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:35
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:03
20:28 Exmouth to Paignton due 21:49
20:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 22:10
20:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 22:13
20:53 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 21:06
21:23 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:38
21:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:10
21:30 Exmouth to Paignton due 22:56
21:53 Paignton to Exmouth due 23:20
22:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:57
22:05 Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:21
23:00 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 23:52
23:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 01:06
23:10 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 23:43
23:29 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 00:04
23:47 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:20


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 17, 2018, 09:17:26

GWR acknowledging there’s a problem again today.

From Journey Check:

Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Weston-super-Mare fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Customers travelling between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa/Gloucester are advised to travel via Bristol Temple Meads or Bristol Parkway. Customers for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse should change at Swindon or Gloucester for replacement road transport.
CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Cheltenham Spa and Bristol Temple Meads via Gloucester in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Gloucester and Chetenham passengers encouraged to use XC services. Trains already packed on a weekend. Hmmm.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2018, 09:45:32
Today's cancellation collection for neatness - with thanks to Graham - possibly the worst yet, interestingly GWR's website suggests that there is "generally a good service across the network" - so clearly we are just being ungrateful.

One of the great difficulties I have when I see a list like this is understanding what's running and how to plan my journey.

May I recommend the TransWilts App (from your iPhone or Android store, or online at https://transwilts.org/app ) to set the picture in context for your Wiltshire station or for other favourites such as Paddington, Bristol Temple Meads and Oxford

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/twapp_01.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/twapp_02.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/twapp_03.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/twapp_04.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2018, 09:49:05

GWR acknowledging there’s a problem again today.

From Journey Check:

Quote
Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Weston-super-Mare fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Customers travelling between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa/Gloucester are advised to travel via Bristol Temple Meads or Bristol Parkway. Customers for Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse should change at Swindon or Gloucester for replacement road transport.
CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Cheltenham Spa and Bristol Temple Meads via Gloucester in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Gloucester and Chetenham passengers encouraged to use XC services. Trains already packed on a weekend. Hmmm.

GWR need to bite the bullet (rather than directing it at their collective feet) and introduce a workable temporary weekend timetable until they sort out this crew availability farce once and for all.

Only someone brave, foolish, totally unaware of the state of GWR, or with no other choice would take a chance on relying on a long distance weekend journey on the regions railways at the moment, especially on Sundays.

Probably better off staying at home and firing up the BBQ...………………….like the train drivers!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on June 17, 2018, 11:00:07
I refuse to travel Sundays now because I used to most Sundays travel to Swindon from Gloucester, but they cancel every possible service. I drive now and until the drivers get back from their weekly Sunday Spa I can not be bothered to use a service that will be cancelled...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 17, 2018, 14:04:02
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/twapp_04.jpg)


I have a small feeling that may not quite be Bristol Temple Meads


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2018, 14:19:41
I have a small feeling that may not quite be Bristol Temple Meads

It was, but scrolling within the app so looking ahead a bit.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on June 17, 2018, 17:38:35
I have resigned myself to the fact that my upcoming 7 day rail rover break will in practice be a 6 day one as I have no intention of ending the holiday with the stress of trying to get home on a Sunday.  Since there is no planning which is obvious to the average potential passenger in the running (or not) of trains on Sunday one could spend an entire day at a station waiting, or be cosily tucked up in the luggage rack on the way home with several train loads of others squeezed into the one running.

I will console myself with the thought that I am performing a public duty in not taking a space a person with more urgent need may need.  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2018, 18:11:41
I have resigned myself to the fact that my upcoming 7 day rail rover break will in practice be a 6 day one as I have no intention of ending the holiday with the stress of trying to get home on a Sunday.  Since there is no planning which is obvious to the average potential passenger in the running (or not) of trains on Sunday one could spend an entire day at a station waiting, or be cosily tucked up in the luggage rack on the way home with several train loads of others squeezed into the one running. ...

Have you tried "defensive scheduling"?     It's something the rail industry should itself practise on a daily basis, but singularly fails to do.

Last Sunday, Rosslare to Melksham (Fishguard Harbour on rail) an "the system" came up with me changing at Bridgend and Swindon.   Yes - but what if there are problems on London to Swansea? ... and I chose to change at Cardiff Central, in the knowledge that if there was a multi-hour gap on the Paddingtons from Bridgend, there would be a fallback on a different route - changing at Trowbridge, or even at Bristol Temple Meads and Bath (for a bus) or Chippenham.

London westward beyond the commuter belt has been very much a Sunday problem of late ... but defensive scheduling and informed travelog decisions offer you alternatives from Waterloo, and perhaps from Marylebone and (for the top of the North Cotswolds) even Euston.

Allow plenty of time, take a fully charged laptop so you can make use of waits, change where there's a network of options not a single service to carry on to ... and you may be lucky. Or it may be that you make your own luck.

Defensive scheduling Melksham to London is always change at Swindon rather than Chippenham.   And in reverse, it's get the first train that calls at Swindon out of Paddington, even if that gives you longer at Swindon.   And if you'r on a train that calls at Chippenham from London, change there rather than Swindon; that way you're just a shorter taxi ride from your final target.

Simples  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on June 17, 2018, 18:19:04
They can even get split ticketing right and you expect them to able to implement this system?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2018, 18:37:52
I have resigned myself to the fact that my upcoming 7 day rail rover break will in practice be a 6 day one as I have no intention of ending the holiday with the stress of trying to get home on a Sunday.  Since there is no planning which is obvious to the average potential passenger in the running (or not) of trains on Sunday one could spend an entire day at a station waiting, or be cosily tucked up in the luggage rack on the way home with several train loads of others squeezed into the one running. ...

Have you tried "defensive scheduling"?     It's something the rail industry should itself practise on a daily basis, but singularly fails to do.

Last Sunday, Rosslare to Melksham (Fishguard Harbour on rail) an "the system" came up with me changing at Bridgend and Swindon.   Yes - but what if there are problems on London to Swansea? ... and I chose to change at Cardiff Central, in the knowledge that if there was a multi-hour gap on the Paddingtons from Bridgend, there would be a fallback on a different route - changing at Trowbridge, or even at Bristol Temple Meads and Bath (for a bus) or Chippenham.

London westward beyond the commuter belt has been very much a Sunday problem of late ... but defensive scheduling and informed travelog decisions offer you alternatives from Waterloo, and perhaps from Marylebone and (for the top of the North Cotswolds) even Euston.

Allow plenty of time, take a fully charged laptop so you can make use of waits, change where there's a network of options not a single service to carry on to ... and you may be lucky. Or it may be that you make your own luck.

Defensive scheduling Melksham to London is always change at Swindon rather than Chippenham.   And in reverse, it's get the first train that calls at Swindon out of Paddington, even if that gives you longer at Swindon.   And if you'r on a train that calls at Chippenham from London, change there rather than Swindon; that way you're just a shorter taxi ride from your final target.

Simples  ;D ;D

Drive, and don't worry about totally unreliable  trains. Simples.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 17, 2018, 18:41:22
Drive, and don't worry about totally unreliable  trains. Simples.

I am no longer able to drive long distances without being worn out for the next day. Sads.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 17, 2018, 18:55:04
I have a small feeling that may not quite be Bristol Temple Meads

It was, but scrolling within the app so looking ahead a bit.

I was referring to the picture  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2018, 20:01:46
Drive, and don't worry about totally unreliable  trains. Simples.

I am no longer able to drive long distances without being worn out for the next day. Sads.

I'd suggest that following the "defensive scheduling" itineraries you propose and the time spent faffing around, going around the houses & resultant journey times & stress would leave you considerably more "worn" than a car journey directly from A to B with a break or two en route, but each to their own! 🙂


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on June 17, 2018, 20:30:46
Looks like the 15.59 Newquay-PAD was diverted via Bristol this evening to cater for passengers affected by consecutive train cancellations:

Quote
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:27 will be diverted between Taunton and Reading.
It will no longer call at Westbury and Newbury but will call additionally at Weston-super-Mare, Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Chippenham, Swindon and Didcot Parkway.
It will be delayed due to the diversion and is expected to be 19 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 17, 2018, 22:57:39
Another difficult day for those travelling to/from South Wales today having to get a bus from Newport to pick up the train at Bristol Parkway...if there was one.

Pad-Bristol Parkway 8 out of 14 trains cancelled including 4 in a row meant no direct service between 14.30 and 19.30.

Bristol Parkway-Pad 7 out of 14 trains cancelled.

How did passengers getting from/to South Wales cope with so many services canned?

Wasn’t too clever either between Temple Meads and Paddington and return this evening with a string of cancellations. As BBM noted the Newquay-Pad train was diverted to help out. Also 21.30 Pad-Bristol Parkway diverted after Swindon to serve Chippenham, Bath and Bristol Temple Meads.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on June 17, 2018, 22:58:34
Graham asks 'Have you tried defensive scheduling?'.  Indeed.  I'm coming back the day before my ticket allows. ;D

I'm not taking a car - driving is not especially relaxing - but, I'm hanging on to some strange idea that rail travel in the UK is still the best way to travel where possible.  We know it can be. One way for me to hang on to that notion is not to put myself deliberately at risk of high blood pressure by pretending that the railway industry might deliver what I know that (at present) it will not and then fuming about it.

Staff shortages are only one one piece of the jig-saw of failure.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on June 18, 2018, 09:08:48

....How did passengers getting from/to South Wales cope with so many services canned?


Short answer for me is you don't. I was planning to split my time between Thames Valley and South Wales with long weekends and flexible working.  Even with an understanding manager its been impossible to plan. The uncertainty and overcrowding just don't make it a relaxing or practical way to travel so I'm still pretty much London based.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on June 18, 2018, 11:43:11
No one has so far mentioned that it was Father's Day yesterday.....most drivers I suspect are fathers. Until Sunday is a rostered day, it will be probably the worst Sunday of the year for driver availability


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2018, 12:15:46
I think it was mentioned albeit on another thread, and if it is indeed the worst Sunday of the year for driver availability, surely that strengthens the case even further for a properly Planned, realistic and workable emergency timetable, rather than the chaotic farce we saw yesterday?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 18, 2018, 13:13:25
Another difficult day for those travelling to/from South Wales today having to get a bus from Newport to pick up the train at Bristol Parkway...if there was one.

Pad-Bristol Parkway 8 out of 14 trains cancelled including 4 in a row meant no direct service between 14.30 and 19.30.

Bristol Parkway-Pad 7 out of 14 trains cancelled.

How did passengers getting from/to South Wales cope with so many services canned?

Wasn’t too clever either between Temple Meads and Paddington and return this evening with a string of cancellations. As BBM noted the Newquay-Pad train was diverted to help out. Also 21.30 Pad-Bristol Parkway diverted after Swindon to serve Chippenham, Bath and Bristol Temple Meads.



The South Wales passengers were told on Twitter to go Temple Meads.   Problem - They were cancelled from there as well


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 18, 2018, 20:31:47
I think it was mentioned albeit on another thread, and if it is indeed the worst Sunday of the year for driver availability, surely that strengthens the case even further for a properly Planned, realistic and workable emergency timetable, rather than the chaotic farce we saw yesterday?

The problem with producing an emergency timetable is that far fewer services would be scheduled to run than there currently is. It would be a bare minimum skeleton service because they won’t know driver availability far enough in advance to produce a timetable. Train crew rostering don’t know numbers of drivers available until Monday/Tuesday therefore a timetable won’t be able to be published until about Thursday.  Once the roster is published it will still be “fine tuned” right up until Sunday when drivers book on for duty and they’re asked “would you mind working a bit longer to cover x” which is why you often see some services reinstated during the day. 

The question really boils down to wether it’s better to have a vastly reduced service which leads to severe overcrowding but is reliable or to run as many services as you can with the resources you have available on the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2018, 22:11:00
The whole situation is ludicrous and almost beyond parody. GWR "management" and the Unions should be locked in a room, have their heads repeatedly banged together & supplied with enough beer and sandwiches to keep them there until they get an agreement on this ridiculous Sunday issue....a few boots to the arse on both sides wouldn't go amiss either. I'm sure there wouldn't be a shortage of volunteers to deliver them.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on June 18, 2018, 22:15:50
I don’t see what the unions have to do with anything.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 18, 2018, 23:13:09
The whole situation is ludicrous and almost beyond parody. GWR "management" and the Unions should be locked in a room, have their heads repeatedly banged together & supplied with enough beer and sandwiches to keep them there until they get an agreement on this ridiculous Sunday issue....a few boots to the arse on both sides wouldn't go amiss either. I'm sure there wouldn't be a shortage of volunteers to deliver them.

Are you trying to create a strike? Or do you subscribe to the Genghis Khan school of diplomacy?  I suggest that sort of pressure - the sort applied by DfT on the Southern dispute - would produce very similar results to that!

Also if you had been reading other posts on this site you would know that:

1) GWR have more drivers than they would need were it not for the accelerated training programme;
2) Drivers are already doing rest day working to undertake the training;
3) Making Sunday working part of contracted hours would require the recruitment of more drivers and it would take at least a year to train them even if they could all be trained at once.

So even if your approach got agreement it would not provide the instant solution you seek.   

Much as I would like a solution by next Sunday it is not going to happen and it is far better that GWR pursue it in a manner that does not make the weekday services even worse than they are at the moment. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 18, 2018, 23:46:16
How do you propose GWR pursue the matter then?

Sunday working has been an issue since BR days. Many TOCs have got a handle on it. The majority of the Greater Western franchise area has been in the hands of the same parent company almost since day one of privatisation. The expanded franchise has been with FirstGroup since 2006.

Let's let GWR continue to pursue the matter at their current glacial pace shall we? They've only had 12 years to achieve something.  ::)

I'm with TG on this one. Time for some toecaps to connect with fundaments.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 18, 2018, 23:55:28
I don't know how fast they are pursuing it as I don't know at what stage in the last 12 years they actually started!

All I know is that it can't be solved overnight with or without a boot. And previous applications of a boot in these sort of circumstances have left us ordinary passengers coming off worst.   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 18, 2018, 23:58:30
The only way I can see to resolve this in the short term is to chuck money at the drivers. They ‘only’ get time-and-a-quarter for working a Sunday.  Make that time-and-a-half, or even double time, until you’ve got on top of the problem, and you might persuade enough to tip the balance back to where it should be with more drivers making themselves available than exercising their contractual right to say no.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2018, 06:38:06
The only way I can see to resolve this in the short term is to chuck money at the drivers. They ‘only’ get time-and-a-quarter for working a Sunday.  Make that time-and-a-half, or even double time, until you’ve got on top of the problem, and you might persuade enough to tip the balance back to where it should be with more drivers making themselves available than exercising their contractual right to say no.

That's a good short term solution to treat the symptoms, but the cause is these outdated contracts, which do not reflect the 7 day nature of the business, and need to be brought up to date - that will require said isolation of GWR/Unions with headbanging/arsekicking/electrodes etc applied to BOTH sides as necessary until a solution is reached. I'm sure it won't be cheap.  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 19, 2018, 07:09:16
So is it cheaper for GWR to cancel services at the rate they’ve been doing on Sundays then to pay their drivers time and a half to work Sundays?

Or is the dead hand of Dft stopping GWR from doing just that because it will tip the franchise into loss making teritory meaning which Dft will then have to pay for?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 19, 2018, 08:05:16
The only way I can see to resolve this in the short term is to chuck money at the drivers. They ‘only’ get time-and-a-quarter for working a Sunday.  Make that time-and-a-half, or even double time, until you’ve got on top of the problem, and you might persuade enough to tip the balance back to where it should be with more drivers making themselves available than exercising their contractual right to say no.

If drivers are already working on rest days to do training would even that be enough?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 19, 2018, 08:17:24
Not enough for everybody, no.  You only need to tip the balance a little bit though as even on the worst Sunday’s there’s still usually over 90% coverage of shifts.

I suppose it could backfire in that drivers might be more inclined to work a Sunday instead of a Rest Day which they would otherwise have applied for, leaving us shorter in the week.

There will be no major movement on this, electrodes or otherwise, for a couple of years as more drivers are required, so it might be worth trying as a quick temporary fix.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 19, 2018, 08:42:52
The trouble with offering Double Pay for a Sunday is that most of it is lost in tax!  You’ve also got the issue where Sunday is shift changeover day. Those working late shifts on a Saturday might then be rostered earlies on Monday so you lose a proportion of your drivers there. 

Any changes to contracts probably also need to be agreed by the DfT


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2018, 08:44:58
The trouble with offering Double Pay for a Sunday is that most of it is lost in tax! 

As they say, you've got to earn it to pay it! 🙂


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2018, 08:48:53
I suppose it could backfire in that drivers might be more inclined to work a Sunday instead of a Rest Day which they would otherwise have applied for, leaving us shorter in the week.

I wondered this - would such an action just be shifting the problem?

To better understand (not that it's my business!) I would love to see figures for how contracted hours, rest day hours and Sunday hours worked for a typical driver or train manager have changed over recent years.  And with that table, a column showing training hours and other hours which are not immediately productive (such as traveling to duty.

A classic story told me by an old-school bus operator of many years experience.  His yard-man worked consistently Monday to Friday and Saturday mornings and did a superb job.   Such a superb job that the bus operator gave him a nice salary rise.  "Wow - thank you.  That means I can now afford not to work Saturday mornings ...."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phantom on June 19, 2018, 12:12:43
Was talking to a friend who works at a local station, won't name to save them getting into trouble

They said last Sunday there were 90 cancellations between WSM and BTM due to a lack of drivers

This Sunday there is an airshow at WSM, and many drivers are choosing not to work on that day because of England playing in the world cup

It will be fun getting those extra thousands of people home on Sunday !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2018, 13:28:20
Ed Sheeran live in Cardiff too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 19, 2018, 14:49:54
Ed Sheeran live in Cardiff too.

Got a mate back at GWR who’s taking his daughter to see Ed Sheran at the weekend,
“Saving myself a fortune by staying overnight in Bristol” he said
Somebody then advised him of the fact the Severn Tunnel is closed and it’s buses.  Apparantly the grin was soon wiped off his face. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Jason on June 21, 2018, 09:06:32
What might have happened on this one ?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40319/2018/06/21/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40319/2018/06/21/advanced)

0603 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington - This service was cancelled between Swindon and London Paddington due to an issue with the train crew (TG).

Yet another delay to my journeys in what has been a very bad two weeks.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on June 21, 2018, 10:47:24
What might have happened on this one ?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40319/2018/06/21/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40319/2018/06/21/advanced)

0603 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington - This service was cancelled between Swindon and London Paddington due to an issue with the train crew (TG).

Yet another delay to my journeys in what has been a very bad two weeks.

TG is the delay attribution code for driver related issues. Appears to be no driver to bring the 3G02 empty stock from Paddington to Swindon. It looks like the set from 1L05 was used to form the 1G02 06:40 Swindon to Cheltenham service instead.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2018, 22:10:37
Should make the late evening interesting tonight at Paddington for those who've had a few ales.....all cancelled, including the last stopper

22:27 London Paddington to Reading due 23:40
23:14 Reading to London Paddington due 00:14
23:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 00:32
00:34 London Paddington to Reading due 01:34


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on June 22, 2018, 09:34:33
Does anyone know what happened at Paddington last night to get the Thames valley home when these services were cancelled?

Ps. Further peak services cancelled this morning for the same reason. I guess it is holiday season.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 08:16:42
BBQ weather, AND the football's on...…………..today's crew shortage cancellations so far

08:27 London Paddington to Swansea due 12:26
08:39 Exeter St Davids to Barnstaple due 09:50
09:58 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 11:10
10:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 10:30
11:25 Taunton to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:57
11:27 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:03
11:59 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 13:16
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:48 Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway due 13:00
13:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 18:25
13:06 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 13:52
13:22 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 14:35
13:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 13:59
13:58 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 14:43
14:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:54
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:42
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:45
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:56
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:56
19:15 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:24
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:24

……..plus another 20 or so "updated" services which amount to cancellations for large numbers of customers......ie Penzance to Paddingtons "starting from Exeter"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 24, 2018, 08:31:06
Seems it isn't just on train staff that are in short supply.   

Seen at Newquay yesterday

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/nqybook.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 24, 2018, 08:32:21
Indeed, not looking too clever if you are travelling to/from the Southwest today. Much better if you are travelling to/from Bristol, South Wales and Cheltenham apart from late afternoon between Paddington and Bristol.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on June 24, 2018, 09:16:11
Well done GWR. For the first time in 7 or 8 weeks you have only cancelled one of the Sunday Cheltenham service!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 09:48:34
Well done GWR. For the first time in 7 or 8 weeks you have only cancelled one of the Sunday Cheltenham service!


Indeed. More than makes up for the other 50+ (and rising) cancellations in full or part!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on June 24, 2018, 12:55:10
Seems it isn't just on train staff that are in short supply.   

Seen at Newquay yesterday

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/nqybook.jpg)

Trouble recruiting seasonal staff. Relying on the regulars working overtime to cover. Should be full cover by mid July/school holidays


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 24, 2018, 15:49:44
Not been a great day on West local services with Bristol Parkway-Portsmouth particularly affected but cancellations and short running services across the GWR West region. Can’t blame IET training for that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 16:29:53
Latest state of play, the situation has deteriorated throughout the day, another 30 - odd "updates" in addition to these cancellations due to lack of crew.

13:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 18:25
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:42
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:45
15:52 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 18:52
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
16:04 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:49
16:14 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 16:39
16:36 London Paddington to Oxford due 17:46
17:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Parkway due 19:59
17:35 Bristol Temple Meads to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:21
17:48 Reading to Redhill due 19:06
17:50 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:03 Weston-Super-Mare to Taunton due 18:34
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:21
19:00 Oxford to London Paddington due 20:06
19:15 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:24
19:20 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:47
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:24
19:42 Plymouth to Penzance due 21:40
19:43 Redhill to Reading due 21:07
19:53 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth due 20:17
19:55 Swindon to Westbury due 20:35
20:01 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 20:47
20:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Parkway due 23:00
20:22 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:50
20:50 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 21:35
20:53 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 21:06
21:02 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:50
21:23 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:38
22:17 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 23:48
23:46 Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:59


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 24, 2018, 18:50:47
This was posted earlier:
https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information
Quote
Amended train service Sunday 24th June

Last updated at 16:04 24/06/2018

Due to a shortage of traincrew, GWR services between London Paddington, Bristol Temple Meads, South Wales, Worcester and Cheltenham will be significantly amended today; Sunday 24th June 2018.

Impact on your journey:
Due to the large number of alterations, services are expected to be extremely busy. Most affected train services have another train service within 60 minutes.

Ticket acceptance:
If your train service has been cancelled, your ticket will be valid with CrossCountry between Penzance and Cheltenham Spa and also with South Western Railway between Exeter St David's and London Waterloo.

If you have a ticket(s) dated for today Sunday 24th June and have an advance purchase ticket(s), you will be able to travel on the train service before or after the cancelled train. If you have been unable to travel due to the cancellations today caused by a member of train crew being unavailable, your ticket(s) will be valid for travel tomorrow; Monday 25th June 2018.

Real-time travel updates for your journey can be found at GWR Today.

Train services between London Paddington, Bristol Temple Meads and Weston-super-Mare
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington, this service is cancelled.
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, this service is cancelled.
16:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, this service is running.
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, this service is cancelled.
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, this service is cancelled.   
19:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington, this service is running.       
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington, this service is cancelled.
20:26 Weston-super-Mare to London Paddington will terminate at Bristol Temple Meads
21:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads, this service is running.

Train services between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington, this service is cancelled.           
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa, this service is cancelled.

Train services between London Paddington, Swansea, Hereford and Carmarthen   
16:27 London Paddington to Hereford, this service is running.
19:15 Swansea to London Paddington, this service is cancelled.

Train services between London Paddington, Exeter St David's, Plymouth and Penzance
11:27 London Paddington to Paignton, this service is cancelled.           
13:00 Penzance to London Paddington, this service will start at Exeter St David’s
13:37 Penzance to Exeter St David’s, this service will terminate at Plymouth.
14:50 Plymouth to Penzance, this service is cancelled.
14:57 London Paddington to Penzance, this service will terminate at Exeter St David’s.
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington, this service will start at Exeter St David’s
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington, this service is cancelled.   
16:12 Plymouth to London Paddington, this service is running and will call additionally at Ivybridge.
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Exeter St David’s.
16:57 London Paddington to Penzance, this service is running. 
19:00 London Paddington to Exeter St David’s, this service will terminate at Bristol Temple Meads.           
19:00 Penzance to Plymouth, this service is cancelled.           
19:42 Plymouth to Penzance, this service is cancelled.   
19:57 London Paddington to Plymouth will terminate at Exeter St David’s
22:58 Plymouth to Exeter St David’s, this service is cancelled.

Train services between Plymouth and Penzance
From 18:25 until 20:26 there are no train services running from Plymouth to Penzance. We are currently struggling to source replacement road transport to cover the gap in the train service

GWR
14:57 London Paddington to Penzance will terminate at Exeter St David's at 17:18.
CrossCountry
10:08 Edinburgh to Penzance will terminate at Plymouth at 18:53.
GWR
19:42 Plymouth to Penzance is cancelled.
The next train service to run on this route will be:
16:57 London Paddington to Penzance, due to depart Plymouth at 20:26. This train service is expected to be very busy as a result of the gap in the train service.

Compensation:
If your train service was delayed or cancelled, you could be entitled to a refund or compensation, please check our Refunds and Compensation page for more information

At least they are being up front about it with this appearing on the front page of the GWR. You have to ask when is this going to end?

This also appeared on GWR Twitter Feed about an hour ago:

Quote
From now until 20:25 there are no train services running from Plymouth to Penzance, and no replacement transport available. Next trains at 20:25, 20:50 & 21:35. Tickets on this route this evening will also be accepted on services tomorrow.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 19:10:36
I should imagine GWR will be facing a pretty chunky compensation bill later this week when all those taxi receipts start coming in for fares from Plymouth to West Cornwall.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 24, 2018, 19:25:49
A tweeted reply from GWR to a punter today:-

Crew are rostered in to cover all timetabled services but if there is an absence and we can't get suitable cover in time services can be affected. Apologies for the effect on your journey. Phil.

If this situation got as much publicity in the Media as GTR and Northern, Mark Hopwood would be forced out of his bunker.  He seems to be well in with a Cotswold Group but not interested in the remainder of his Network.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 24, 2018, 19:38:06
A tweeted reply from GWR to a punter today:-

Crew are rostered in to cover all timetabled services but if there is an absence and we can't get suitable cover in time services can be affected. Apologies for the effect on your journey. Phil.

If this situation got as much publicity in the Media as GTR and Northern, Mark Hopwood would be forced out of his bunker.  He seems to be well in with a Cotswold Group but not interested in the remainder of his Network.
As I say, if the amount of cancellations and services running short that happen every Sunday took place during the working week, Mark Hopwood would be feeling a bit of the pressure that his colleagues who run GTR and Northern are facing regardless of who is at fault here. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 19:48:17
A tweeted reply from GWR to a punter today:-

Crew are rostered in to cover all timetabled services but if there is an absence and we can't get suitable cover in time services can be affected. Apologies for the effect on your journey. Phil.

If this situation got as much publicity in the Media as GTR and Northern, Mark Hopwood would be forced out of his bunker.  He seems to be well in with a Cotswold Group but not interested in the remainder of his Network.
As I say, if the amount of cancellations and services running short that happen every Sunday took place during the working week, Mark Hopwood would be feeling a bit of the pressure that his colleagues who run GTR and Northern are facing regardless of who is at fault here. 

........they'd have to find him first! ☺


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on June 24, 2018, 20:35:20
I received this reply to an email I sent last week.

Thank you for your email regarding GWR Sunday service cancellations. I will ensure it is drawn to the attention of the Committee.
Deborah Courtney - Senior Committee Assistant - Transport Committee | House of Commons


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 24, 2018, 21:29:25
The cancellations on the Pompeys appear to have been due to shortage of guards as units seemed to be flying about to take up their next workings.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2018, 22:23:52
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/gwr-train-chaos-leaves-passengers-1710987


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: sikejsudjek3 on June 25, 2018, 00:11:20
So why couldn't they organise alternative transport? Given the repeated shocking state of GW Sunday services its not like this wasn't predictable. Glad it's finally hitting the press. This company needs a parliamentary foot up its managerial backside for its longstanding failure to run a Sunday service. The only mystery is how they've got away with it for so long 🙄


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 25, 2018, 06:25:23
There’s the rub.  There will be no parliamentary kick up the backside because the DfT are partly culpable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 25, 2018, 07:08:44
There’s the rub.  There will be no parliamentary kick up the backside because the DfT are partly culpable.

I see your point however GWR is 100% culpable for not having contingency planning in place for alternative transport when they know damn well that this ridiculous Sunday situation is ongoing.

To have a 2 and a half hour gap with no sort of service between Plymouth and Penzance as happened last night is an absolute disgrace as was the typical GWR attitude of "you're on your own"

Hopwood/GWR are only getting away with it at the moment because they are fortunate in even worse railway chaos elsewhere with Northern/GTR keeping the spotlight off them and I am sure he is down on his knees giving thanks for that on a daily basis - that won't last forever of course.


The implications for high summer weekends really don't bear thinking about.


I've got several trips to the Westcountry coming up in the next couple of months and whereas I would usually make the trip by train I'll be on the motorway this time as I have absolutely no faith in GWRs ability to get me back to the South East on a Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 25, 2018, 14:03:24
Of the three down services cancelled between Plymouth and Penzance, one was a CrossCountry.  There was no coaches available for the companies to hire in. Most Sundays see some coaches parked in Plymouth station car park on standby. Coaches I suspect will become harder to source now we are getting closer to peak holiday season.

Is GWR an actual true franchise or is it run under a management contract?

Hopwood and GWR are only “getting away with it” because of the delays caused by the DfT and NR with electrification, subsequent late delivery of new trains and the DfT allocating trains to new operators far to quickly which doesn’t allow for any teething problems. Having to introduce new trains at this time of year is never going to go smoothly, GWR are  coming up to the high summer timetable when resources, both trains and crews are at their highest.  This is why there’s currently so many short formed IETs. The units are being used for training purposes.
Staffing levels aren’t the issue. Staffing at most depots, especially the HSS ones, are at their highest they’ve ever been.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 25, 2018, 14:15:26
Yesterdays problems weren't helped by the failure of 1V50 XC HST 0900 Leeds to Plymouth that failed attempting to climb Rattery Bank west of Totnes, with one power car dead and 7 on.  I know this because I was sat on it at the time.  It took over an hour for the train to set back to Totnes and terminate in the Up Platform after a bit of shunting.  I must say, as a semi-retired railwayman with a little bit of "insider knowledge", that the customer service was extremely abysmal, with wrong information being given out on the PA by the Train Manager.  There were lots of confused passengers in the coach I was in so in the end I decided to stand up and tell them exactly what was going to happen in straightforward English, not in 'railway speak'.  Before anybody says it, I will acknowledge that such failures can be quite stressful for train staff, but they are trained to be professional in such circumstances are they not?...….

EDIT TO ADD:… and just to add to everything, half way through the set back process the PASSCOM Disabled Toilet Alarm decided it had enough and started "DING-DONG - Will a member of train staff please go to Zone A - DING-DONG"  pause for 5 seconds then "DING-DONG - Will a member of train staff please go to Zone A - DING-DONG" pause for 5 seconds then....you guessed it.  It went on for 10 minutes until the Train Manager came on the PA when he could and said he had switched the PASSCOM Disabled Toilet Alarm off.  I didn't think that was very safe action on a stranded train!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Western Pathfinder on June 25, 2018, 14:18:41
Sounds like the benefit of a wise head on older shoulders to me ,it's a shame that so much experience is missing from the network these days.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 25, 2018, 14:24:04
Yesterdays problems weren't helped by the failure of 1V50 XC HST 0900 Leeds to Plymouth that failed attempting to climb Rattery Bank west of Totnes, with one power car dead and 7 on.  I know this because I was sat on it at the time.  It took over an hour for the train to set back to Totnes and terminate in the Up Platform after a bit of shunting.  I must say, as a semi-retired railwayman with a little bit of "insider knowledge", that the customer service was extremely abysmal, with wrong information being given out on the PA by the Train Manager.  There were lots of confused passengers in the coach I was in so in the end I decided to stand up and tell them exactly what was going to happen in straightforward English, not in 'railway speak'.  When I have typed up my story I'll add it here.  before anybody says it, I will acknowledge that such failures can be quite stressful for train staff, but they are trained to be professional in such circumstances are they not?...….

I’m surprised it couldn’t make it on one power car unless the working power car was running with power notches out.
The problem you have in those situations is that train operator control, Network control and Network rail signallers all have different ideas on how to rectify the issue.  What one party may be happy to authorise another may not.  Long gone are the days when the train crew can tell everyone else what’s going to happen.  Frustratingly for train crew, we know how to sort the situation out within 10-15 minutes. Now it takes someone in an office an extra 45 minutes plus to come to the same conclusion!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 25, 2018, 14:27:52
Yesterdays problems weren't helped by the failure of 1V50 XC HST 0900 Leeds to Plymouth that failed attempting to climb Rattery Bank west of Totnes, with one power car dead and 7 on.  I know this because I was sat on it at the time.  It took over an hour for the train to set back to Totnes and terminate in the Up Platform after a bit of shunting.  I must say, as a semi-retired railwayman with a little bit of "insider knowledge", that the customer service was extremely abysmal, with wrong information being given out on the PA by the Train Manager.  There were lots of confused passengers in the coach I was in so in the end I decided to stand up and tell them exactly what was going to happen in straightforward English, not in 'railway speak'.  When I have typed up my story I'll add it here.  before anybody says it, I will acknowledge that such failures can be quite stressful for train staff, but they are trained to be professional in such circumstances are they not?...….

I’m surprised it couldn’t make it on one power car unless the working power car was running with power notches out.
The problem you have in those situations is that train operator control, Network control and Network rail signallers all have different ideas on how to rectify the issue.  What one party may be happy to authorise another may not.  Long gone are the days when the train crew can tell everyone else what’s going to happen.  Frustratingly for train crew, we know how to sort the situation out within 10-15 minutes. Now it takes someone in an office an extra 45 minutes plus to come to the same conclusion!

Yes, so was I, but my understanding of the Devon Bank rules is that if one power car is out the banks must not be attempted from a station stop at Totnes.  However, speaking to the station supervisor at Totnes whilst waiting for the next service, he told me that rule has been superseded if the HST only has 7 coaches on.  Is that correct?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 25, 2018, 14:37:14
Apologies to the moderators.  I realise this thread is about GWR train crew shortages but I thought it was relevant as it added to the dreadful service confusion down in the far South West yesterday evening.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 25, 2018, 14:39:49

Yes, so was I, but my understanding of the Devon Bank rules is that if one power car is out the banks must not be attempted from a station stop at Totnes.  However, speaking to the station supervisor at Totnes whilst waiting for the next service, he told me that rule has been superseded if the HST only has 7 coaches on.  Is that correct?

Yes, trains on one engine and formed of 8 trailers must not stop at Totnes or be routed through the platform.  
I think the only time they’d consider not stopping with 7 trailers is during the Autumn.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 25, 2018, 14:57:43
Staffing levels aren’t the issue. Staffing at most depots, especially the HSS ones, are at their highest they’ve ever been.

Then why were the majority of yesterday's (and last Sunday's, and the previous Sunday's... ad infinitum) attributed by GWR to a lack of staff?

Yes, a few of us in the know are aware that training on new/cascaded stock is impacting rosters with rest day working on other days of the week impacting on Sunday working. Yes, a few of us are aware that because of new/cascaded stock there are maintenance issues. Key maintenance personnel having gone from GWR to Hitachi. Yes, a few of us know that Network Rail are behind the curve with electrification. And, yes, a few of us know that stock is moving away from GWR at a rapid pace, putting pressure on what's left. You and I know this, but I'd wager the vast majority of those wanting to use the advertised service on a Sunday are not aware of all these issues. That's not acceptable. There needs to be an explanation and apology from the top of GWR. It is not good enough to leave social media and front line staff in the firing line every Sunday.

GWR share equal blame for the ongoing fiasco. They are the public face of the railways so they have to take their share of the blame for not managing the situation. It is disingenuous of them to abrogate responsibility for the issues to the DfT and Network Rail. As a TOC you can't just sit there quietly twiddling your thumbs, taking in the subsidies and trousering the profit, whilst every one day in seven there is a service meltdown. Mark Hopwood must break from cover and apologise, explain why, then explain how he plans to resolve.

GWR keep accepting the franchise extensions. What it seems they are not accepting though is any responsibility to the people who provide their income. The fare payers and taxpayers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on June 25, 2018, 15:11:54
And in the mean time, the marketing part of GWR keeps churning platitudes out, seemingly oblivious to everything else. The latest slogan today being 'Arrive ready for business with Great Western Railway, where travel time needn’t be wasted time.'

They would be better off taking the KFC approach after their problems. Admit things aren't right, say what you are working on, then when things are back to being right (let's take it for now that at some time they will be) then do the aspirational stuff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on June 25, 2018, 15:16:49
...yes, and being honest by reducing the train service level to that which CAN be resourced and run reliably in the interim...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 25, 2018, 16:00:06
...yes, and being honest by reducing the train service level to that which CAN be resourced and run reliably in the interim...

But as staff availability will vary from week to week depending on the weather and local and national events, engineering works.  If you reduce the train service to that which you can reliably resource then you are looking at a much reduced service than is currently being run. Extensive engineering works aren’t helping because they require more crew because trips would exceed maximum driving hours or go over diversionary routes that some depots don’t sign.  As engineering works vary week to week so do the diagrams so the requirement for train crew also varies.... and some of the diagrams are nasty, another reason why some drivers may not volunteer to work.
Throwing money at a problem doesn’t always fix it.  For example, a lot of the London crews don’t live in London so they rely on train services, not necessarily GWR services, to get them into work.  That’s not possible on a Sunday morning so they don’t make themselves available to work. 

Any changes to train crew contracts on GWR are handled by the DfT as the franchise is up for renewal in a couple of years time so GWR can’t yet include Sunday’s in the working week so Hopwood’s hands are a little tied.

I can’t honestly see why they don’t explain things fully to customers.  The fact is, it wouldn’t damage the business to be honest, which is why I always think there’s something or someone preventing them from doing so.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2018, 16:15:05
And in the mean time, the marketing part of GWR keeps churning platitudes out, seemingly oblivious to everything else. The latest slogan today being 'Arrive ready for business with Great Western Railway, where travel time needn’t be wasted time.'

Controlled carefully, you can do that.

Through a series of business meetings at the end of last week (and more at the end of this week), I'm travelling by train and my travel time is not being wasted; hard at work except when the spectacular scenery distracts.  However, I'm always ahead of myself / with a fallback if there are problems, and I'm always arriving well in advance for any appointments along the way, and never on the last available train on the day.  Early arrival time is not wasted either ... I can find somewhere to sit and work.

Contrast that to the alternatives of driving myself, or going on a bus where I personally feel so thrown around that I can't work ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 25, 2018, 17:48:26
And in the mean time, the marketing part of GWR keeps churning platitudes out, seemingly oblivious to everything else. The latest slogan today being 'Arrive ready for business with Great Western Railway, where travel time needn’t be wasted time.'

Controlled carefully, you can do that.

Through a series of business meetings at the end of last week (and more at the end of this week), I'm travelling by train and my travel time is not being wasted; hard at work except when the spectacular scenery distracts.  However, I'm always ahead of myself / with a fallback if there are problems, and I'm always arriving well in advance for any appointments along the way, and never on the last available train on the day.  Early arrival time is not wasted either ... I can find somewhere to sit and work.

Contrast that to the alternatives of driving myself, or going on a bus where I personally feel so thrown around that I can't work ...

You cando that, if the train is reliable and on time, of the advertised size rather than only 50% and packed to the gunwhales, has a good and consistent wifi connection, and is blessed with a driver...…….at the moment GWR struggle with those variables both individually and in combination, and I certainly wouldn't rely on them to get me anywhere of critical importance at a designated time.


Arriving well in advance "defensive scheduling" I think you call it - acknowledges that there is a problem, and for most people building in huge margins of error and trying to find somewhere to sit around is not effective or secure working time.


Sometimes it seems that GWR just devise these advertising campaigns to highlight their ineptness.


(Graham I know you're one of the faithful, please don't take offence!)  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 25, 2018, 17:57:02
How would you defensively schedule if you had an appointment in Cheltenham at 15:00 on a Sunday, aim to arrive at 18:00 on the Saturday?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2018, 19:52:38
Arriving well in advance "defensive scheduling" I think you call it - acknowledges that there is a problem, and for most people building in huge margins of error and trying to find somewhere to sit around is not effective or secure working time.

I agree. 

I happen to be sitting semi-working / sorting out today's stuff and on the forum in the Alexander Bain,as recommended by mine host at the B&B I'm spending the night it.  I find it's very productive to work in the sort of environment.   And we have other members who have or do express an ability to work on the road as good as or better than at base.   "How CAN you work with all this lovely scenery going by" said someone to me today ...

It is the minority that will work in this defensive way - but not as tiny a minority as you might think.

Cheers - over a pint of Durdle Door that's come a bloomin' long way to find me.

Quote
(Graham I know you're one of the faithful, please don't take offence!)  :)

Nah - I don't take offence. Rather, I cry in frustration to what's being done to so many "normal" people who just want a train journey where they can travel at the time published and get a seat if they're going a significant distance.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 25, 2018, 19:56:50
How would you defensively schedule if you had an appointment in Cheltenham at 15:00 on a Sunday, aim to arrive at 18:00 on the Saturday?

Arrive in Cheltenham for a Sunday lunch.  If megaproblems via Kemble, go via Parkway.   All this assuming a London start.   If Pilning start then, yes, travel on Saturday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainbuff on June 25, 2018, 21:44:53
Yesterdays problems weren't helped by the failure of 1V50 XC HST 0900 Leeds to Plymouth that failed attempting to climb Rattery Bank west of Totnes, with one power car dead and 7 on.  I know this because I was sat on it at the time.  It took over an hour for the train to set back to Totnes and terminate in the Up Platform after a bit of shunting.  I must say, as a semi-retired railwayman with a little bit of "insider knowledge", that the customer service was extremely abysmal, with wrong information being given out on the PA by the Train Manager.  There were lots of confused passengers in the coach I was in so in the end I decided to stand up and tell them exactly what was going to happen in straightforward English, not in 'railway speak'.  When I have typed up my story I'll add it here.  Before anybody says it, I will acknowledge that such failures can be quite stressful for train staff, but they are trained to be professional in such circumstances are they not?...….

EDIT TO ADD:… and just to add to everything, half way through the set back process the PASSCOM decided it had enough and started "DING-DONG - Will a member of train staff please go to zone A DING-DONG"  pause for 5 seconds then "DING-DONG - Will a member of train staff please go to zone A DING-DONG" pause for 5 seconds then....you guessed it.  It went on for 10 minutes until the Train Manager came on the PA when he could and said he had switched the PASSCOM off.  I didn't think that was very safe action on a stranded train!

The message you heard is not the PASSCOM being activated. It is either the Disabled Toilet Alarm or one of the emergency alarms in the disabled area being activated. It cannot be stopped until the Train Manager gets to the site. Had it been a PASSCOM the train would not have moved as all air would have been evacuated from the braking system leaving the brakes on


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 01, 2018, 07:53:29
…...hope you've all been working on your defensive scheduling?  ;)

All cancelled, or "updated" to a similar extent.

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
10:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 12:33
10:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 12:25
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 14:43
13:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 15:40
14:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:56
15:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:28
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:45
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
16:27 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 18:25
16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:24
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:56
17:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:45
18:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 20:38
18:56 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:53
19:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:51
19:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:28
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:25
19:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 21:37
20:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 22:40
21:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:25
21:46 Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:07
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:54
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:35
17:35 Penzance to London Paddington due 23:38
17:35 Bristol Temple Meads to Brighton due 21:10
17:57 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:35
18:45 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:37
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:03


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 01, 2018, 08:27:13
I like this one....

Quote
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Additional Information
----snip----
Customers travelling from Cheltenham Spa or Gloucester to Swindon, Reading and London Paddington should travel via Bristol Parkway.

Journey times will be extended by up to 60 minutes.

Ok, so the next train to arrive Bristol Parkway first from Cheltenham is the 12:10 which arrives Bristol Parkway at 12:39, not bad as the next service to Paddington is at 12:45 so that shouldn't delay me too much  :) .......... Oh...

Quote
12:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 14:43 will be cancelled.

Oh well, I'll just wait an hour for the next service from Bristol Parkway instead......

Quote
13:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 15:40 will be cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 01, 2018, 09:08:08
…….here we go again...……..


Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Swindon


Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Swindon:

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Owing to a shortage of train crew there will be reduction in the frequency of train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads / London Paddington and Bristol Parkway / London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa in both directions. This is likely to be the case for the remainder of the day.

Intending customers are advised to use the 'JourneyCheck' section of the GWR website for the latest updates on cancelled, altered and reinstated train services during the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 01, 2018, 09:58:09
…….here we go again...……..


Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Swindon


Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Swindon:

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Owing to a shortage of train crew there will be reduction in the frequency of train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads / London Paddington and Bristol Parkway / London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa in both directions. This is likely to be the case for the remainder of the day.

Intending customers are advised to use the 'JourneyCheck' section of the GWR website for the latest updates on cancelled, altered and reinstated train services during the day.

Love this update!  ::)

Kindly note that at certain times this may result in successive train cancellations along the London Paddington - Reading - Didcot Parkway - Swindon corridor.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 01, 2018, 10:17:31
If people haven’t got the message by now that travelling GWR on Sundays is a complete lottery. Even if your train does show up you will likely be sharing it with those whose train was cancelled earlier leading to sardine like conditions.

And still GWR bombard us with the Famous Five advertising campaign encouraging us to go on ‘a great adventure’ on their trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 01, 2018, 10:24:05
I like this one....

Quote
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Additional Information
----snip----
Customers travelling from Cheltenham Spa or Gloucester to Swindon, Reading and London Paddington should travel via Bristol Parkway.

Journey times will be extended by up to 60 minutes.

Ok, so the next train to arrive Bristol Parkway first from Cheltenham is the 12:10 which arrives Bristol Parkway at 12:39, not bad as the next service to Paddington is at 12:45 so that shouldn't delay me too much  :) .......... Oh...

Quote
12:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 14:43 will be cancelled.

Oh well, I'll just wait an hour for the next service from Bristol Parkway instead......

Quote
13:45 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 15:40 will be cancelled.
They need to revise that advice  ::) Best to stay on the train and travel to Temple Meads. Of course there will be those due to travel on the 1245 from South Wales and Parkway joining the 1239 train. I can’t imagine the chaos at stations this causes when everyone tries to get on an already packed train. I feel for the station staff I really do. Perhaps it would be good for Mark Hopwood and his senior management to help out at Bristol Parkway today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 01, 2018, 10:49:50
Do any railway MD's / Senior management come out at weekends?





(And yes I know certain ones aren't often seen on weekdays either)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 01, 2018, 11:14:29
Do any railway MD's / Senior management come out at weekends?

My understanding is that there is a member of very senior management on call to deal with any out of the ordinary issues at "unusual" times ... the specific data I have relates to the Christmas and New Year period, but I'm pretty sure it applies at other times too - and I expect I could name about half a dozen people who would / will be on the rota.

But they are to deal with "out of the ordinary" issues.  Sadly, this weekend's meltdowns are ordinary.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on July 01, 2018, 12:15:22
Do any railway MD's / Senior management come out at weekends?


In the past when I regularly visited Cardiff at weekends I very often saw the MD, I think, of Wales and Borders Trains, (you know the outfit that was the other part of Wales and West Trains when they split and the other half became Wessex Trains and Valley Lines was still an independent operation) Chris Gibbs out on the frontline at Cardiff Central assisting with the despatch of trains, particularly after an event at the Millenium Stadium, assisting passengers with their enquiries AND PICKING UP LITTER, REMOVING USED COFFEE CUPS FROM PLATFORM SEATS and I thought at the time that he was a shinning example of a top dog getting his hands "dirty". Chris of course went on to become MD of a VT franchise succeeding another Chris, Chris Green, he of Network South-East fame. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 01, 2018, 12:38:51
Do any railway MD's / Senior management come out at weekends?


In the past when I regularly visited Cardiff at weekends I very often saw the MD, I think, of Wales and Borders Trains, (you know the outfit that was the other part of Wales and West Trains when they split and the other half became Wessex Trains and Valley Lines was still an independent operation) Chris Gibbs out on the frontline at Cardiff Central assisting with the despatch of trains, particularly after an event at the Millenium Stadium, assisting passengers with their enquiries AND PICKING UP LITTER, REMOVING USED COFFEE CUPS FROM PLATFORM SEATS and I thought at the time that he was a shinning example of a top dog getting his hands "dirty". Chris of course went on to become MD of a VT franchise succeeding another Chris, Chris Green, he of Network South-East fame. 

That's an excellent example of  the difference between Leadership & Management. In contrast, GWR seems to be over supplied with the latter, and desperately lacking the former.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 01, 2018, 12:57:20
That's an excellent example of  the difference between Leadership & Management. In contrast, GWR seems to be over supplied with the latter, and desperately lacking the former.
It would be useful if they could all drive trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 01, 2018, 13:16:51
That's an excellent example of  the difference between Leadership & Management. In contrast, GWR seems to be over supplied with the latter, and desperately lacking the former.
It would be useful if they could all drive trains.

Careful! Don't let the Unions hear that, they'll have everyone out on strike! 😃


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainer on July 01, 2018, 14:03:25
If I consult Journey Check on the NR site at this moment on Sunday 1st July (13:50) I see that there is a Good Service.  I feel one could have a semantic discussion at this point as the 14:00 to Bristol is cancelled 'due to an issue with the train crew' (Real Time Trains). So are the 15:00 to Taunton and 15:30 to Bristol.  If management rely on the same information as pax then there's no need to be out on a hot day explaining and the front line staff are left to give the glad tidings.


Edited to include missing word.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on July 08, 2018, 09:32:42
20 cancellations today. 18 due to a shortage of train crew. None of those are the Cheltenham line, however 14:00-18:00 a few services between Paddington and Bristol/Cardiff/Swansea are cancelled. The rest are lines in Cornwall.

I could say this is an improvment from this time (two/three) weeks ago?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 08, 2018, 10:42:06
I could say this is an improvment from this time (two/three) weeks ago?

Certainly an improvement for us [TransWilts] over yesterday, where after the 13:32 round trip only the 21:06 from Swindon actually ran as far as I can tell.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 08, 2018, 12:17:44
I could say this is an improvment from this time (two/three) weeks ago?
It is unless you so happen to be booked on one of the cancelled services or the one that follows the cancelled train.

I can’t begin to imagine what service will be offered if England reach the World Cup Final next Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on July 08, 2018, 13:25:10
It’s coming home... via replacement bus service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on July 08, 2018, 19:01:38
If England are in the World Cup Final I imagine the number of travellers will reduce greatly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 08, 2018, 19:54:16
If England are in the World Cup Final I imagine the number of travellers will reduce greatly.
True, but there will still be those who have to travel and those who can’t stand football  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 21, 2018, 08:03:05
Given that the World Cup is now over, and having seen no update from GWR to the contrary, presumably the full, advertised Sunday service will be running tomorrow, with no chaos due to lack of staff?

 (I acknowledge however that it is still BBQ weather)

 ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on July 21, 2018, 16:41:02
Journey checker today looked very healthy


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 21, 2018, 16:48:48
Journey checker today looked very healthy

With every man and his dog taking last Sunday off and partying until they burned a hole in their pockets, perhaps there will be a rebound this weekend where every man wants to work to help top up his pay-packet to his normal monthly average.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 21, 2018, 17:13:18
Journey checker today looked very healthy

Hang on for tomorrow...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on July 22, 2018, 07:44:07
My phone and computer are broken. The day has finally come, for the first time in over 10 weeeks, there are no cancellations at all according to journey check.

Well done GWR for running train services.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 22, 2018, 07:46:10
For the record, as we speak the only alteration is:

Quote
07:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 08:35 will be terminated at Redhill.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on July 22, 2018, 08:03:58
Somethings not right..... I have a bad feeling about this.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 22, 2018, 08:11:39
Somethings not right..... I have a bad feeling about this.....

Twilight zone?

Maybe train drivers aren't interested in Golf?

Or Aldi sold out of sun cream, burgers and sausages?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 22, 2018, 08:25:45
Great news indeed for GWR’s long suffering weekend passengers that a full service is planned to run today  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 22, 2018, 08:40:51
Great news indeed for GWR’s long suffering weekend passengers that a full service is planned to run today  :)

Handful gone .... spread across the patch.  For example

Quote
07:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 08:35
07:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 08:35 will be terminated at Redhill.
It will no longer call at Reigate, Dorking Deepdene, Guildford, Ash, North Camp, Farnborough North, Blackwater, Sandhurst, Crowthorne, Wokingham and Reading.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Quote
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Quote
10:58 Paignton to Exmouth due 12:24
10:58 Paignton to Exmouth due 12:24 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

But yes, yes, YES ... much better!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on July 22, 2018, 09:11:22
I would seriously like to know now such a stepped change is possible.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 22, 2018, 09:27:18
I would seriously like to know now such a stepped change is possible.

We're normally told by those "in the know" that the situation re: availability is much worse during school holidays when drivers want to spend more time with their families and/or go on holiday themselves. Today is the first weekend of 95% of schools being on holiday, and nearly all advertised trains are running for the first time in months. Strange that.

 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 22, 2018, 09:31:30
I would seriously like to know now such a stepped change is possible.

Sunday working is very largely reliant on staff volunteering to work overtime.
Therefore large scale cancellations can be expected if popular sporting events, or fine weather, or school holidays reduce the number of such volunteers.
Although the weather remains fine, the football is now over and it would seem that enough staff have volunteered  to work, that an almost full service can be offered.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on July 22, 2018, 09:40:10
No HSS services listed and which usually bear the brunt.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2018, 09:48:19
Surprising, but great, to see a virtually full service today.  Don’t expect the remainder of the summer to be the same though, but hopefully the worst weekend was last weekend.

Reasons?  Well, the Oxford engineering blockade (and to a lesser extent the Newbury one) means fewer trains are running, so less crews are required, so that is definitely helping.  Holiday wise it’s potentially twice as bad when many staff are starting their holiday and others finishing their holiday on the same weekend.  Obviously with the schools just breaking up, very few are finishing their holidays this weekend.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on July 22, 2018, 11:10:10
Appreciate everything you said but the issues on Sunday have been in place since last year. Either the driver training has actually come to fruition or the number of IET trains has increased.


I would seriously like to know now such a stepped change is possible.

We're normally told by those "in the know" that the situation re: availability is much worse during school holidays when drivers want to spend more time with their families and/or go on holiday themselves. Today is the first weekend of 95% of schools being on holiday, and nearly all advertised trains are running for the first time in months. Strange that.

 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2018, 11:29:30
Basically nothing much has changed, just the ebbing and flowing of availability from week to week meaning we're either just surviving with what we've got (with a lot of jiggery pokery from the resourcing staff), or there are shortages.  Ongoing training is gradually easing things a little, but no magic wand can be waved.  Even last weekend you were only looking at less than a 10% shortfall in driver numbers over the day, but witness what an affect that has after you've wrung every last drop out of any slack in the existing diagrams, and factor in that most of the shortfall was for the late shifts.

I note that there are now four additional cancellations on the Cheltenham/Paddington route, indicating that we are very much in 'just about surviving' mode today.  A couple of late notice sick days and the cancellations would soon mount up into double figures.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2018, 12:11:58
Also noticed there don't seem to be any 5 vice 10 IET services this weekend.  A 9 and a 10 were swapped around on Bristol services due to late running yesterday but I have not spotted anything else.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2018, 15:51:29
A few other cancellations to Swindon<>Gloucester local trains now added, so the South Cotswolds line has once again drawn the short straw on a Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2018, 15:54:23
And no diverted Cross Country services as back up this weekend either.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on July 22, 2018, 16:27:37
And the plan for one train per hour direct to London from Cheltenham (and Sundays) would work successfully. or not.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 22, 2018, 18:14:48
Somethings not right..... I have a bad feeling about this.....

I'm watching Groundhog Day as I type. Just saying...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2018, 18:28:45
Somethings not right..... I have a bad feeling about this.....

I'm watching Groundhog Day as I type. Just saying...

Lets hope it isn't really Groundhog day for you and the tv box blows up a second time....   ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 22, 2018, 18:58:16
People may be wondering...

Last night while watching TV, my Youview set top box went pop, with an accompanying electrical flash and puff of smoke. Frightened the bejesus out of me. Fortunately today I managed to source a temporary replacement until engineer visit.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: chuffed on July 22, 2018, 19:16:59
Are you certain it wasn't Finn telling you it's tiddle time ?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on July 22, 2018, 19:22:14
Are you certain it wasn't Finn telling you it's tiddle time ?

No, Finn had already done the tiddle and that was what caused the box to flash and smoke !!!!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 22, 2018, 21:12:08
I nearly tiddled myself, thanks. Made I jump, made Finn jump. And my loud expletive had him disappear into the bathroom.

I now think it was a capacitor that popped.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 22, 2018, 21:14:32
I nearly tiddled myself, thanks. Made I jump, made Finn jump. And my loud expletive had him disappear into the bathroom.

I now think it was a capacitor that popped.

Was it a canine comment on your choice of viewing? 😃


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 22, 2018, 22:48:15
No idea. But tonight it's a full power cut. ETR 0130.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on July 25, 2018, 23:33:58

Lets hope it isn't really Groundhog day for you and the tv box blows up a second time....   ;D

i know somebody who plays with that band. i strongly recommend them!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 27, 2018, 12:24:30
2312 Paddington - Reading & 0022 Paddington- Oxford cancelled tonight, "shortage of train crew" - really poor on a Friday night especially, two of the key LTV services for Friday night revellers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 29, 2018, 07:30:38
The regular normal for a Sunday again. Can't call it the 'new normal' any more.

20 cancellations so far. All due to lack of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 29, 2018, 07:34:31
As at 7.30 99% of IC services running with just the 2026 WSM-PAD only getting as far BRI.

However...

Very poor service today on local services particularly Cardiff-Portsmouth which has many cancellations and services running short today. Best avoided if possible.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2018, 08:11:11
Strange isn't it?

Two weeks ago GWR told us the staff shortages were down to nice weather and Croatia v France - now it's raining and there's no football on, but still no staff?


Are they all huge Tour de France fans, or perhaps recovering from Hopwood's wedding celebrations?



 ???

08:18 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 09:38
09:20 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Shrub Hill due 10:51
11:38 Worcester Shrub Hill to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:09
13:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 13:59
14:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:54
15:47 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:09
17:28 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 18:01
17:56 St Erth to St Ives due 18:10
18:10 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:51
18:12 St Ives to St Erth due 18:25
18:30 St Erth to St Ives due 18:44
18:50 St Ives to St Erth due 19:03
19:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 22:52
19:30 St Erth to St Ives due 19:44
19:46 St Ives to Penzance due 20:09
21:18 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:21
22:01 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester due 22:11
22:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Westbury due 23:59
22:27 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 22:59
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 12:41
10:08 Cardiff Central to Brighton due 14:49
13:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:42
13:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 16:52
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:43
14:27 Exmouth to Paignton due 15:50
14:37 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:19
15:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 18:42
15:55 Paignton to Exmouth due 17:19
16:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 19:52
16:10 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 19:42
16:10 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:29
17:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 20:43
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:16 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach due 19:29
19:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 22:45
20:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 23:41
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:03
20:41 Bristol Temple Meads to Cheltenham Spa due 21:47
20:53 Paignton to Exmouth due 22:21


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on July 29, 2018, 17:40:25
First weekend of the school holidays and after getting used to having Sundays off maybe reluctant to start working them again!!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on July 29, 2018, 18:39:06
First weekend of the school holidays and after getting used to having Sundays off maybe reluctant to start working them again!!

If you notice, they are Regional trains rather than HSS today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 31, 2018, 15:55:15
.....so now we're getting mass cancellations during the week too....

16:56 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:36
17:32 West Ealing to Greenford due 17:44
17:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:27
17:47 Greenford to West Ealing due 17:58
18:02 West Ealing to Greenford due 18:14
18:22 Greenford to West Ealing due 18:33
18:42 London Paddington to Reading due 19:43
19:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 20:54
19:35 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:34
19:52 Reading to London Paddington due 20:46
21:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 22:21
23:34 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:07


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 31, 2018, 16:24:15
Not sure if it’s still the case but the 21:00 to Reading and 23:34 return to Gatwick used to be crewed by Southern staff under an agreement with FGW/GWR.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on August 04, 2018, 12:12:54
Not sure if it was due to staff availability or not, but the booking office at Didcot was closed this morning when I walked by. Queues in excess of a dozen deep for each of the ticket machines, snaking outside. One person there with a hand-held device. Twitter advising people to use the app ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on August 05, 2018, 17:55:50
Did I just see a 9 car train on the South Wales line to Swansea? Will this be the new normal? I thought the 10 car trains were going to be run on this line? Some one please enlighten me.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 05, 2018, 18:27:59
Did I just see a 9 car train on the South Wales line to Swansea? Will this be the new normal? I thought the 10 car trains were going to be run on this line? Some one please enlighten me.

They can operate on all lines that the 5 and 10 cars can. In the new timetable, the majority of Bristol and South Wales services will be operated by 9 car trains. The five cars will run off peak trains to Cheltenham and Bedwyn and continues to operate Cotswolds services. The odd off peak service to Bristol may be a five car however no peak services will run less than 9 or 10 coaches.

The 9 cars were planned to operate Bristol and South Wales from the start, however they were made bi-mode and the 5 cars came first.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: YouKnowNothing on August 05, 2018, 18:38:19
interesting, so do the new 9 car trains provide more or the same number of seats as the old trains?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 05, 2018, 18:44:06
Over 20% more.  Walking inside from one end to the other gives you an idea just how bloody long they are!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 05, 2018, 19:04:28
Getting back to talking about traincrews again, discussion seems to concentrate on drivers and guards but, according to peope's Tweets to GWR, it seems that there are many instances of catering crew not available even on a journey from Penzance to London on a Sunday.    GWR Journey Check tends not to show them even as there is a box for the info to be posted.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2018, 21:28:13
Getting back to talking about traincrews again, discussion seems to concentrate on drivers and guards but, according to peope's Tweets to GWR, it seems that there are many instances of catering crew not available even on a journey from Penzance to London on a Sunday.    GWR Journey Check tends not to show them even as there is a box for the info to be posted.

Makes sense. If the catering staff are working, there's no one to do the BBQ for the drivers that aren't. The Union is very strict about this sort of thing......one driver flips a burger and we'd be looking at months of strikes! ☺


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 05, 2018, 22:18:14
Hmmm... You don't want to risk overcooking your BBQ references, TG.  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on August 12, 2018, 07:41:56
From the RMT:

Quote
SUNDAY WORKING, GUARDS – GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY

Further to my Circular No IR/300/18 dated the 4th July 2018 with regards to the above matter and where I informed you of the meeting with our GWR Divisional Council Representatives, the Lead Officer and National Officers to discuss the union’s negotiating position regarding the issues raised in the resolution received from our Plymouth No 1 Branch.

“That this Plymouth No 1 Branch recognises that the GWR Guard Sunday enhancement payment is reaching its trial conclusion. Branch reiterates its position that Sunday Working Payments should include all grades that this Union represents and demands that any future talks should be inclusive of all grades.

Branch believes that a 1¾ payment with ‘no strings’ is a practical solution to solve the ongoing Sunday Working issue. Should there be no satisfactory outcome, then we urge the NEC to create a dispute situation between this Union and the GWR.

Branch is aware that the IET sets are operational and that the travelling public have not been happy with the absence of a buffet car/shop facility on board. We request that the NEC re-open talks about the inclusion of a buffet car/shop facility in line with the East Coast IET sets which will create a better service for passengers and a better and safer working environment for our members."


I can now advise you that following conclusion of this meeting, the union’s National Executive Committee has again considered the matter and I have been instructed to negotiate a Sunday Working Agreement for all grades with Great Western Railway. Therefore, I am in the process of making the necessary arrangements for a meeting to be held and I will, of course, keep you fully advised on any further developments as and when the arise.

In accordance with the above, I would be most grateful if you could bring the content of this circular to the attention of your GWR Guard members.

Best wishes.

Mick Cash
General Secretary

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/sunday-working-guards--great-western-railway090818/

A typical RMT starting point to negotiations. "Give us what we want or we'll strike."  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2018, 08:16:15
Not looking good if you are travelling to/from Cheltenham today, otherwise a good service elsewhere.

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa
Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Cheltenham Spa and Bristol Temple Meads via Gloucester in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.
Additional Information
Replacement Road Transport has been requested to run in place of cancelled trains between Swindon and Gloucester. This has yet to be confirmed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2018, 12:33:33
I spoke to soon, the list of cancellations and short workings has increased as the day has progressed particularly on West local services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 12, 2018, 17:33:25
I spoke to soon, the list of cancellations and short workings has increased as the day has progressed particularly on West local services.


Same old same old Sunday  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 12, 2018, 18:46:31
There are 3 services cancelled in each direction between Swansea and Paddington that haven't even been posted on Journey Check.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2018, 20:47:09
There are 3 services cancelled in each direction between Swansea and Paddington that haven't even been posted on Journey Check.
A few London-Bristol-London trains added to the list as well. After what looked to be a good service away from the Cheltenham line, in the end as Taplow Green says Same old same old Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2018, 20:58:25
With the last train of the day to South Wales the 2130 cancelled, how do GWR intend to get people for South Wales home tonight? Note just to help things the 2200 to Bristol is cancelled too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2018, 21:07:47
With the last train of the day to South Wales the 2130 cancelled, how do GWR intend to get people for South Wales home tonight? Note just to help things the 2200 to Bristol is cancelled too.
And here’s my answer, just reinstated. Good work.

Quote
21:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:53 will be reinstated.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 13, 2018, 06:22:33
Monday morning......all cancelled, no crew.

05:18 Reading to London Paddington due 06:16
05:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 06:54
06:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 07:22
06:30 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 08:42
06:33 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 08:14
06:42 London Paddington to Reading due 07:43
07:03 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 08:29
08:07 Oxford to London Paddington due 09:10
08:50 London Paddington to Oxford due 09:51
11:01 Oxford to London Paddington due 11:58




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 15, 2018, 05:55:42
Morning peak LTV services. All cancelled. Given the time of year, I suspect this is down to poor management of resources/allowing too much Annual Leave?

05:57 Reading to London Paddington due 06:36

06:15 Reading to London Paddington due 06:45

06:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 07:22

06:42 London Paddington to Reading due 07:43

07:44 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 08:18

07:50 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 08:53

08:07 Oxford to London Paddington due 09:07

08:29 London Paddington to Reading due 09:25


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: devonexpress on August 17, 2018, 15:23:10
From the RMT:

Quote

Branch is aware that the IET sets are operational and that the travelling public have not been happy with the absence of a buffet car/shop facility on board. We request that the NEC re-open talks about the inclusion of a buffet car/shop facility in line with the East Coast IET sets which will create a better service for passengers and a better and safer working environment for our members."[/i]

Best wishes.

Mick Cash
General Secretary

Hmmmm I treat this with some cynicism, Back in 2014 they striked over no buffet cars on IET's, and now they're saying the public as whole complains about no buffet's where is the proof?  If it had come from Passenger Focus then I would accept it. I do believe on the whole the IET project is a complete balls up, but we will just have to make do for 10 years or so until they get refurbished.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2018, 15:49:00
On a Friday in August, probably one of the worst to cancel;

17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19
17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 17, 2018, 15:56:27
On a Friday in August, probably one of the worst to cancel;

17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19
17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Given this is a Peak service, it is not so crucial for long distance travellers, so I would suggest that, if any are to be cancelled, then this is the prime candidate.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2018, 16:03:10
On a Friday in August, probably one of the worst to cancel;

17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19
17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Given this is a Peak service, it is not so crucial for long distance travellers, so I would suggest that, if any are to be cancelled, then this is the prime candidate.

Really? Fancy trying to cram them all onto the 1803 which is the suggested alternative?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 17, 2018, 16:07:14
On a Friday in August, probably one of the worst to cancel;

17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19
17:33 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:19 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Given this is a Peak service, it is not so crucial for long distance travellers, so I would suggest that, if any are to be cancelled, then this is the prime candidate.

Really? Fancy trying to cram them all onto the 1803 which is the suggested alternative?

What I was trying to say, is that this service is not popular with long-distance travellers, so there won't be that many of them. Having travelled on it before on a Summer Friday, it is likely to be more than half empty after Newbury and there are plenty of other services for Reading* and Newbury.

* It being Friday, the service is Pick-Up Only at Reading, so, naturally, there will not be anybody boarding at Paddington for Reading  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 17, 2018, 16:35:00
It has now been partially re-instated and will run as one coach from Exeter St Davids to Paignton.   The 18:03 connects into it - which of course means the 18:03 will be very busy.  How the one car train from Exeter fares is open to debate - I have caught the service from Paddington through to Paignton before and it is very much quieter after Exeter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2018, 07:40:43
…..it's a summer Saturday and people want to go to the coast (amongst other places), so these are cancelled...………

06:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 09:00
06:54 Westbury to Weymouth due 08:26
07:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 10:43
08:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:22
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:10
09:45 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:26
10:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 14:12
11:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:07
13:08 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:00
14:50 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:13


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 18, 2018, 15:35:59
…..it's a summer Saturday and people want to go to the coast (amongst other places), so these are cancelled...………

06:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 09:00
06:54 Westbury to Weymouth due 08:26
07:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 10:43
08:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:22
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:10
09:45 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:26
10:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 14:12
11:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:07
13:08 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:00
14:50 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:13
The in between expresses stopped at the stations due to be served by the Paigntons so would have probably been quite cozy on board especially if the air con in any of the carriages wasn’t working.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2018, 16:59:13
…..it's a summer Saturday and people want to go to the coast (amongst other places), so these are cancelled...………

06:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 09:00
06:54 Westbury to Weymouth due 08:26
07:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 10:43
08:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:22
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:10
09:45 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:26
10:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 14:12
11:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:07
13:08 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:00
14:50 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:13
The in between expresses stopped at the stations due to be served by the Paigntons so would have probably been quite cozy on board especially if the air con in any of the carriages wasn’t working.

A pal of mine was heading back to Plymouth for the weekend this morning and said it was predictably appalling as you suggest.

Mass cancellations on a Saturday. God knows what it'll be like tomorrow when the BBQs come out.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 19, 2018, 08:09:58
Let the Sunday games begin...........

cancelled.....
08:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
08:36 London Paddington to Hereford due 11:51
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:29
13:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 17:05
15:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 17:55
16:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:40
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:56
18:56 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:49
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:16
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:37

08:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 10:50   will be started from Bristol Temple Meads
08:33 London Paddington to Swansea due 11:49                   will be terminated at Cardiff Central
11:40 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:27                  will be started from Plymouth
12:00 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare due 14:37   will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads
12:36 London Paddington to Hereford due 15:55                   will be started from Reading
13:20 Weston-super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:50   will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads
15:00 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:01                    will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:27                  will be terminated at Plymouth
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:35                  will be terminated at Exeter St Davids
16:26 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 19:05 will be terminated at Reading


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 19, 2018, 17:50:21
Interesting one here, 1559 Newquay-Paddington terminates at Plymouth. Okay not a problem, the 1613 from Penzance to Paddington is not far behind. Oh dear, that one only goes as far as Exeter!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 19, 2018, 19:41:34
Looks like a solution was found  :) Pick up a Bristol crew member.

Quote
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:35 will be diverted between Taunton and Reading.
It will be delayed due to the diversion and is expected to be 26 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 19, 2018, 19:59:14
Looks like a solution was found  :) Pick up a Bristol crew member.

Quote
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:35 will be diverted between Taunton and Reading.
It will be delayed due to the diversion and is expected to be 26 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Hmmm ... and use it to pick up passengers for the 19:30 Bristol to Paddington which has also been cancelled?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 19, 2018, 21:18:14
.....my sympathy is with those on board, the overcrowding must be absolutely hideous.........


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 19, 2018, 21:28:54
The 2000 Bristol TM went up infront of it so it would be the Bristol service that may be like that....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2018, 08:13:10
Looks like GWR'S inability to manage their Annual Leave schedule is causing problems again today, a number of long distance peak services cancelled due to staff shortages. Some very unhappy customers out there.....who are being advised to complain with the rider that due to a backlog (still going on!) they'll probably be waiting 3 or 4 weeks for a reply.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: the void on August 20, 2018, 13:28:46
Looks like GWR'S inability to manage their Annual Leave schedule is causing problems again today

It has nothing to do with an ability to manage annual leave. It's all down to the perfectly normal and valid situation whereby the entire railway workforce cannot be compelled to come to work on a Sunday. It's the Lord's day! Woe betide anyone who dares attempting to force staff to give up going to church. Strike, strike, strike! So if staff cannot be bribed into coming in with massive overtime payments then everything falls apart. Ain't railways brilliant.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: tomL on August 20, 2018, 13:40:00
Looks like GWR'S inability to manage their Annual Leave schedule is causing problems again today

It has nothing to do with an ability to manage annual leave. It's all down to the perfectly normal and valid situation whereby the entire railway workforce cannot be compelled to come to work on a Sunday. It's the Lord's day! Woe betide anyone who dares attempting to force staff to give up going to church. Strike, strike, strike! So if staff cannot be bribed into coming in with massive overtime payments then everything falls apart. Ain't railways brilliant.

Last time I checked it wasn’t Sunday...  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2018, 08:39:43
Summer holidays and the BBQ season are over, but...…………it's Sunday so these are all cancelled because there aren't any crew available.

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
09:24 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:08
10:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
10:57 London Paddington to Penzance due 16:11
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:50
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
11:27 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:03
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:45
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:40
15:42 Plymouth to London Paddington due 19:29
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:50
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:42
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:45
16:51 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:10
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
20:57 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 23:35
21:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:53


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 09, 2018, 08:49:08
Think you should add this one to your list too Taplow Green:

Quote
09:30 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 13:37 will be started from Swansea.
It will no longer call at London Paddington, Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport (South Wales), Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway and Neath.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

A next to useless service unless you are travelling between Swansea and Carmarthen where all the passengers could probably all fit into a 153!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on September 09, 2018, 10:27:57
Think you should add this one to your list too Taplow Green:

Quote
09:30 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 13:37 will be started from Swansea.
It will no longer call at London Paddington, Reading, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport (South Wales), Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway and Neath.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

A next to useless service unless you are travelling between Swansea and Carmarthen where all the passengers could probably all fit into a 153!
Not exactly the worse one of the day, I think all Cheltenham ones are cancelled.


This is unacceptable, GWR with there poor delivery of services. Cancel every Cheltenham, leaving Stroud Stonehouse and Kemble with a 3/4 hourly service. Gloucester has a 5 minute connection at Parkway, so no use for slow people and those with heavy luggage. Beyond a joke.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 09, 2018, 11:01:29
There were 20 when I looked, all HSSs apart from the first 2 StIves Trips.    The Regional ones, especially on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route, tend to show up as the day goes on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 09, 2018, 15:44:01
Early September is always popular for the crews who don’t have children to take holidays as the weather is still generally good.  GWR have also generally gotten on with training over the past couple of months when they may have been guilty in the past of delaying training but then exasperating the problem later on.

That’s not to say all these cancellations are acceptable mind you, but I would guess the situation at weekends will improve by the end of the month.  Note the word ‘improved’ and not ‘resolved’!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 09, 2018, 15:55:45
In their response via Twitter to somebody with a Cheltenham cancellation query, GWR said that all timetabled trains have a full crew rostered in.   Is this a "wind up"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on September 09, 2018, 16:21:31
Looks like the majority could be Paddington drivers.  I wonder if the proposed new driver depot at Swindon might be seen by GWR management as a solution to staffing Paddington on Sunday’s??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on September 09, 2018, 16:24:12
They roster staff in though you can pull out with seven days notice, and this is what all the staff are doing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2018, 16:26:44
They roster staff in though you can pull out with seven days notice, and this is what all the staff are doing.

Basically then they pencil them in and hope for the best?




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on September 09, 2018, 16:40:22
They roster staff in though you can pull out with seven days notice, and this is what all the staff are doing.

Basically then they pencil them in and hope for the best?


The roster is done around 5 days in advance.  Up until that point you can make yourself unavailable to work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 09, 2018, 21:30:38
I found all the unavailable staff today.... riding the (rumour has it) last ever HST to Newquay.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2018, 08:50:50
I found all the unavailable staff today.... riding the (rumour has it) last ever HST to Newquay.


.......rather fortunate that they could find a driver for that one!  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on September 10, 2018, 08:55:09
Looks like the majority could be Paddington drivers.  I wonder if the proposed new driver depot at Swindon might be seen by GWR management as a solution to staffing Paddington on Sunday’s??
Proposed? Surely it will take a few years to build a depot, then staff it.
A long way off for now.
Maybe the next franchisee would benefit more from this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2018, 09:07:44
Looks like the majority could be Paddington drivers.  I wonder if the proposed new driver depot at Swindon might be seen by GWR management as a solution to staffing Paddington on Sunday’s??
Proposed? Surely it will take a few years to build a depot, then staff it.
A long way off for now.
Maybe the next franchisee would benefit more from this.

I would suspect that a "driver depot" isn't quite such a big build as a train depot.

A signing on and off point for a late train (turbo?) from Bristol via Chippenham - for which there is an 800 signature petition floating around. Return train in the morning at around 05:30 to provide the first Bath to Bristol service, assuming that Cross Country pull theirs. Also for the first Southampton departure / last Southampton arrival when Swindon - Westbury, Westbury - Salisbury and Salisbury - Solent - Romsey get joined up.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 10, 2018, 10:28:47
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  Its going to be, together with READING, a sub-depot of ST.PHILIPS MARSH.

Edit to Add: ....and its going to be a LIGHT MAINTENANCE FACILITY


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 10, 2018, 10:30:07
I found all the unavailable staff today.... riding the (rumour has it) last ever HST to Newquay.


.......rather fortunate that they could find a driver for that one!  ::)


The driver is a well known driver in enthusiast circles.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2018, 11:10:24
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  ...

I've noticed work going on / laying new tracks in that area on my last couple of journeys ... probably to do with this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2018, 11:27:46
I found all the unavailable staff today.... riding the (rumour has it) last ever HST to Newquay.


.......rather fortunate that they could find a driver for that one!  ::)


The driver is a well known driver in enthusiast circles.

.......just trying to imagine a similar scenario with an airline.....BA decide to stop using 737s on a particular route so a load of flights are cancelled at the last minute, customers left stranded and all the pilots who were supposed to be flying them pile onto the final 737 flight instead, which is being flown by a pilot who is also a plane spotter........naturally they also travel for free on staff passes (although to be fair BA don't receive huge taxpayer subsidies so perhaps more forgivable), can you imagine the reaction?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on September 10, 2018, 11:42:13
Who'd want to fly on a 737? But the last HST to X now that's a winner.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2018, 12:00:52
Who'd want to fly on a 737? But the last HST to X now that's a winner.

......both ancient relics I grant you, but at least you'd be sure of a seat on the plane, and Broadgage would be happy, he'd get some food on board! 🙂


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: WelshBluebird on September 10, 2018, 14:24:31
15:42 Plymouth to London Paddington due 19:29
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:50

That had the fun of funneling three lots of train passengers onto one train when the 16.12 Plymouth to Paddington rolled into Exeter St Davids at 17.17!

Thankfully I was in First class (thanks to some really good advance tickets!) so didn't have to deal with any of it, but based on how full the platform at Exeter was when boarding, it didn't look great!

Not sure I'd have like to seen what would have happened if it had been a 5 car 800 either!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2018, 15:25:27
I guess it wil be much better if and when it is a 9/10 car IET.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on September 10, 2018, 16:18:04
Quote
and Broadgage would be happy, he'd get some food on board!

....albeit served from a trolley, or more acurately, a cart.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 10, 2018, 16:19:43
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  ...

I've noticed work going on / laying new tracks in that area on my last couple of journeys ... probably to do with this.

We need to get somebody local to take some piccies..... ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: tomL on September 10, 2018, 16:51:43
Heading that way tomorrow so can hopefully grab some pics.

Maybe worth a new thread for discussion of the new “Swindon depot”?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on September 10, 2018, 18:24:03
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  Its going to be, together with READING, a sub-depot of ST.PHILIPS MARSH.
Edit to Add: ....and its going to be a LIGHT MAINTENANCE FACILITY

I noticed sidings have been electrified and when I mentioned this to a true spotter he told me that its to stable 387's which will operate peak hour stopping services to/from Paddington when the full 5-car non stop to Paddington IET timetable comes in. Mind you I know him to be a leg puller at times but judging by the present service GWR are providing, he might be right.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 10, 2018, 18:57:53
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  ...

I've noticed work going on / laying new tracks in that area on my last couple of journeys ... probably to do with this.

We need to get somebody local to take some piccies..... ;)


It isn't the easiest location to photograph unless you are on a passing train - and then, for preference, an HST with windows you can open in the vestibules.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2018, 21:12:26
There has been mention elsewhere of work having started at COCKELBURY SIDINGS.  Not been that way for a long time, so not sure how accurate that is.  Its going to be, together with READING, a sub-depot of ST.PHILIPS MARSH.
Edit to Add: ....and its going to be a LIGHT MAINTENANCE FACILITY

I noticed sidings have been electrified and when I mentioned this to a true spotter he told me that its to stable 387's which will operate peak hour stopping services to/from Paddington when the full 5-car non stop to Paddington IET timetable comes in. Mind you I know him to be a leg puller at times but judging by the present service GWR are providing, he might be right.

Initially it will be stabling for 387s, the ones currently stabled at Maidenhead that Crossrail will need and would have originally been stabled at Oxford had the electrification there not been postponed.  Swindon was the nearest sensible alternative apparently.

I would imagine they will operate empty to/from Swindon and either Didcot or Reading to form the scheduled services they do now as they will all be heading out of Swindon too early or arriving back too late to be of much use as commuter trains from there.  There may be scope for the odd passenger train using them though I suppose.

Drivers are being taken out of the Reading depot establishment to supply the new ‘satellite’ depot at Swindon, using volunteers.  No shortage of them as quite a few Reading drivers live in or around Swindon and will obviously save significant time on their current commute.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 10, 2018, 21:23:11
Might cut down the number who board the up sleeper when it makes its unadvertised stop at Swindon at 03:15 for staff only. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on September 11, 2018, 21:25:55
......both ancient relics I grant you,

One of which is still being built.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 23, 2018, 07:38:08
Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Due to a shortage of train crew we are unable to operate a number of trains between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa. Replacement road transport will operate where trains are cancelled between Swindon and Gloucester. Customers travelling between London and Cheltenham Spa should use alternative GWR services to and from Swindon, changing for road transport.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on September 23, 2018, 08:04:58
This weekend is the anniversary of these cancellations!  We are currently on week 30 in a row of Cheltenham’s being cancelled (over half)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on October 07, 2018, 09:41:42
GWR must be treating their staff because no Cheltenham services are cancelled just yet. A very well done to GWR to be able to provide what there purpose is to do!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 07, 2018, 10:11:55
They’ll probably be ok now the holiday period is well and truly over.  Until the next holiday period.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 07, 2018, 10:42:10
They’ll probably be ok now the holiday period is well and truly over.  Until the next holiday period.

Half term soon  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on October 10, 2018, 19:31:35
They’ll probably be ok now the holiday period is well and truly over.  Until the next holiday period.

Half term soon  :)

Then Christmas.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 11, 2018, 08:52:09
....was this Broadgage in disguise? 😉

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/gwr-passengers-told-no-sandwiches-2095320.amp?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&__twitter_impression=true


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on October 11, 2018, 09:00:08
No, but it seems that someone else is not entirely happy with catering (non)provision on the new trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 11, 2018, 09:07:04
No, but it seems that someone else is not entirely happy with catering (non)provision on the new trains.
To be fair its happened to me on HST operated services too, either no catering crew or no first class host. This is not a new problem.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 11, 2018, 11:24:22
Travelled on my first IET yesterday, in Cornwall, and there was catering onboard (and a Train Manager).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: 1st fan on October 11, 2018, 14:08:15
No, but it seems that someone else is not entirely happy with catering (non)provision on the new trains.
To be fair its happened to me on HST operated services too, either no catering crew or no first class host. This is not a new problem.
I boarded an HST at Paddington in 1st and unpacked a few bits and pieces. Then the Train Manager comes on the tannoy and tells us that there is a problem with the catering,  There was no food and we were missing the crew member for 1st. Then at departure she appears again and says we may have to change trains please listen for further announcements. Then she came back on and told us to get off the train, cross the platform and get on the HST on the other side. Not ideal as some people had settled in but off we went, people who had been standing in the vestibules got off and then on first and now got seats. This HST had a stocked mini/micro buffet and a full 1st trolley and crew member serving from it. Much better from my point of view but a bit of a faff. We made up the lost time by Reading so no real damage done. The original HST left Paddington without food to another destination later according to the Train Manager.

I've also been on an IET where the only catering was in 1st and consisted of a packet of crisps and a can of coke. Wouldn't have minded so much but I hadn't eaten all day and had not had time at Paddington or anywhere else to buy anything.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on October 21, 2018, 10:15:19
Last weekend services were terminating at Swindon although they all ran. This weekend all Cheltenham’s are running as of 10:14. Half term has just started as well so it seems like it’s a step in the right directio


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on October 22, 2018, 20:12:46
Last few Truro - Falmouths cancelled today, probably due to someone going sick at this late stage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adrian on October 22, 2018, 20:41:34
The 1400 CDF - TAU and 1607 TAU - CDF as far as Bristol today are shown on RealtimeTrains as cancelled due to a planning error (TA) - whatever that means?  I think Journeycheck had them down as staff shortages. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 22, 2018, 20:48:36
The 1400 CDF - TAU and 1607 TAU - CDF as far as Bristol today are shown on RealtimeTrains as cancelled due to a planning error (TA) - whatever that means?  I think Journeycheck had them down as staff shortages. 

Probably got the planning wrong so there was no driver available


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on October 22, 2018, 21:39:19
Last weekend services were terminating at Swindon although they all ran. This weekend all Cheltenham’s are running as of 10:14. Half term has just started as well so it seems like it’s a step in the right directio

Didn't say anything yesterday but all that I could find was one which terminated short.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on October 27, 2018, 10:02:55
Make of this what you will..........
From Devon Live (https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/train-stranded-exeter-st-davids-2151687?fbclid=IwAR0CGKDfOWz65StNZfFsjS4LAGbqaWnELCExza33A6aWU0J-iWe6snsxE-4) (apologies for the click bait)
Quote
Train stranded at Exeter St Davids after driver 'goes missing'
Confused passengers took to social media in a bid to find the missing driver
(https://i2-prod.devonlive.com/incoming/article851742.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/IMG_2234.jpg)
Exeter St Davids station (Image: Rom Preston-Ellis)

Passengers have reportedly been left stranded on a train at Exeter St Davids after the driver apparently went missing.
A flurry of tweets from angry passengers on the Penzance to London Paddington train flagged up the problem shortly after 3pm on Friday.

The GWR service eventually got moving shortly before 3.30pm following a short delay.

One passenger said: "Currently on a train at Exeter Station without a driver. How can you provide a Penzance to Paddington service without the foresight to have a driver for the whole journey?

Another passenger, Stephen Thomson, wrote on Twitter: "Apparently the driver of my train from Exeter to London has gone missing. Can I have a go please? I'll be really careful!!!"

Meanwhile Sheila O'Connor did not see the funny side.

She wrote: "Currently on the 12.04 from Penzance now at Exeter St David’s and we appear to have no driver!!! Who is responsible for planning the staff rota? Hope I don’t miss my onward train to Leeds..... GWRHelp poor job again."

The person manning the GWR twitter account tried to laugh off the incident, telling Stephen that they could see the train was moving once more, although seemed mildly concerned that he may have carried out his threat to drive the train himself.

Jo from GWR tweeted: "Hi Stephen. I can see you are on your way now. Its not you driving the train, is it??? - Jo."

Jo was a bit more sympathetic with Mary, writing: "Really sorry for the delay to your journey today Mary. I can see you are now moving but I appreciate how frustrating this has been - Jo."

A spokesperson for GWR said: "There is a scheduled driver swap at Exeter St Davids on this service, however due to a short notice staff absence we had to source a replacement driver.

"The train was unfortunately delayed by 20 minutes as a result."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 27, 2018, 11:46:27
More Twitter ‘journalism’  ::) Big deal, Often happens. At least there was a driver to take the train forward after a reasonably short delay. I don’t think XC will be too pleased an image of one of their trains was used either.

News organisations must pay people to trawl through company Twitter feeds looking for a story. Lazy journalism.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 27, 2018, 16:03:14
More Twitter ‘journalism’  ::) Big deal, Often happens. At least there was a driver to take the train forward after a reasonably short delay. I don’t think XC will be too pleased an image of one of their trains was used either.

News organisations must pay people to trawl through company Twitter feeds looking for a story. Lazy journalism.

I really enjoy being a part of this forum but one of the things I find quite bizarre is the venom with which any external person/organisation who/which highlights a failure of the railway tends to be descended upon - if it's an individual, their character/motivation/integrity is immediately called into question, if it's any type of media, it must be biased, worthless untrustworthy or lack objectivity (Twitter is the part of the future of instant news, best get used to it, not everything takes 24 hours to appear in the Press/TV any more, the world is changing very quickly!) - the ignorance of the travelling public is generally taken for granted and sneered at, whereas a judicial level of proof seems necessary before the failure of any member of the "railway family" is acknowledged.

Perhaps it's a societal thing - it almost mirrors the behaviour of Corbyn's Momentum mob, whereby any criticism of Magic Grandpa means you must be Blairite or a "Tory" (now a generic Corbynista term for anyone not on the far left) and any media criticism can only be explained by the extreme bias of the "Mainstreammeeja" - the possibility of failures closer to home which need addressing is treated as heresy.

In my own organisation, things go wrong. Not too often, but more often than we'd like. When they do, we don't get defensive, we learn from it, and if possible build it into service improvement and make things better for our customers...........we encourage and welcome feedback, and we let people know what we've done as a result.

Then again, we care about our customers, they're the reason we exist and of course we have competition...............what a shock most of those employed on the railway would have if that was the case!

Anyway, just an observation - not pointing at any one individual, look upon it as an outsider looking in - who pays £thousands over to the railway every year - have a great Saturday night all!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 27, 2018, 16:42:05
the world is changing very quickly!

And sometimes for the better as well. 

Though without wishing to come across as venomous, I must admit I find articles like the one Phil linked for us pretty pathetic.  That's not in defence of the railway - it can equally be applied to other news genres such as politics, health, education, showbiz etc.  It increasingly seems to be a world where we get fed stories using very little other than Twitter quotes, dubious facts, and 'click bait' headlines - even from some of the more 'serious' news outlets.

That's not a change for the better IMHO.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 27, 2018, 16:52:39
the world is changing very quickly!

And sometimes for the better as well. 

Though without wishing to come across as venomous, I must admit I find articles like the one Phil linked for us pretty pathetic.  That's not in defence of the railway - it can equally be applied to other news genres such as politics, health, education, showbiz etc.  It increasingly seems to be a world where we get fed stories using very little other than Twitter quotes, dubious facts, and 'click bait' headlines - even from some of the more 'serious' news outlets.

That's not a change for the better IMHO.

A measured reply as always II, but I don't think there's anything too dubious or pathetic about the story, and I'd respectfully suggest that the fact that customers have been delayed for almost half an hour, inconvenienced and will quite possibly miss connections or other commitments as a result as well as being treated flippantly by GWR staff is more important than any subjective reservations about the source from which the information comes........so often this seems to be overlooked. - Play the ball, not the man!  ;)




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on October 27, 2018, 17:15:55
the world is changing very quickly!

And sometimes for the better as well. 

Though without wishing to come across as venomous, I must admit I find articles like the one Phil linked for us pretty pathetic.  That's not in defence of the railway - it can equally be applied to other news genres such as politics, health, education, showbiz etc.  It increasingly seems to be a world where we get fed stories using very little other than Twitter quotes, dubious facts, and 'click bait' headlines - even from some of the more 'serious' news outlets.

That's not a change for the better IMHO.

A measured reply as always II, but I don't think there's anything too dubious or pathetic about the story, and I'd respectfully suggest that the fact that customers have been delayed for almost half an hour, inconvenienced and will quite possibly miss connections or other commitments as a result as well as being treated flippantly by GWR staff is more important than any subjective reservations about the source from which the information comes........so often this seems to be overlooked. - Play the ball, not the man!  ;)


One of the reasons I posted the link with the comment 'Make of this what you will' was simply because there were so many inaccuracies in an article that was supposed to highlight the problem of a shortage of train crews.

The simple fact that the train arrived at Exeter at 14:56, already 6 minutes late and then left at 15:16 (NOT 'shortly before 3.30pm' as the article suggests) just 21 minutes late. Hardly a major problem in the grand scheme of things.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 27, 2018, 17:37:00
So, if they thought it a story worth running with then perhaps 'Train at platform for 20 minutes' would be a more accurate headline than 'Train stranded at Exeter St Davids after driver 'goes missing'.

I have to say I thought the Twitter responses were spot on.  Perhaps some would see it as flippant, but to me a light-hearted and humourous tweet from Stephen was given a light-hearted and humourous response.  And a response that was sincere and apologetic was given to Mary who I presume made a more serious tweet.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 27, 2018, 17:49:33
So, if they thought it a story worth running with then perhaps 'Train at platform for 20 minutes' would be a more accurate headline than 'Train stranded at Exeter St Davids after driver 'goes missing'.

I have to say I thought the Twitter responses were spot on.  Perhaps some would see it as flippant, but to me a light-hearted and humourous tweet from Stephen was given a light-hearted and humourous response.  And a response that was sincere and apologetic was given to Mary who I presume made a more serious tweet.

All very subjective of course, but I'd be wary of sending "light hearted" tweets to customers in these circumstances.

Fact remains however that people here seem more concerned about minor inaccuracies and rubbishing the source than the inconvenience and concern to which customers were put - sometimes it's best to see the bigger picture, and ask yourself what matters more.

No-one's suggesting that this was a Pulitzer prize winning article, but let's try to get priorities the right way around?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 27, 2018, 17:52:21
So, if they thought it a story worth running with then perhaps 'Train at platform for 20 minutes' would be a more accurate headline than 'Train stranded at Exeter St Davids after driver 'goes missing'.

I have to say I thought the Twitter responses were spot on.  Perhaps some would see it as flippant, but to me a light-hearted and humourous tweet from Stephen was given a light-hearted and humourous response.  And a response that was sincere and apologetic was given to Mary who I presume made a more serious tweet.

That's not how Twitter works, is it? Everyone is listening in, and with different trigger filters for irony and tongue-in-cheek comments. So what may well have started with one passenger mischievously misunderstanding an announcement about needing to find a driver as "gone off and not told anyone", so as to make a joke about "can I have a go", ends with a lot of misunderstandings.

Of course drivers do sometimes go missing in that sense - you hear the PA messages for them. But if the word "missing" was used in an announcement, its range of idiomatic uses does make misunderstandings, genuine or willful, likely.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on October 27, 2018, 20:43:24
Make of this what you will..........
From Devon Live (https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/train-stranded-exeter-st-davids-2151687?fbclid=IwAR0CGKDfOWz65StNZfFsjS4LAGbqaWnELCExza33A6aWU0J-iWe6snsxE-4) (apologies for the click bait)
Quote
Train stranded at Exeter St Davids after driver 'goes missing'
Confused passengers took to social media in a bid to find the missing driver
(https://i2-prod.devonlive.com/incoming/article851742.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/IMG_2234.jpg)
Exeter St Davids station (Image: Rom Preston-Ellis)

Passengers have reportedly been left stranded on a train at Exeter St Davids after the driver apparently went missing.
A flurry of tweets from angry passengers on the Penzance to London Paddington train flagged up the problem shortly after 3pm on Friday.

The GWR service eventually got moving shortly before 3.30pm following a short delay.

One passenger said: "Currently on a train at Exeter Station without a driver. How can you provide a Penzance to Paddington service without the foresight to have a driver for the whole journey?

Another passenger, Stephen Thomson, wrote on Twitter: "Apparently the driver of my train from Exeter to London has gone missing. Can I have a go please? I'll be really careful!!!"

Meanwhile Sheila O'Connor did not see the funny side.

She wrote: "Currently on the 12.04 from Penzance now at Exeter St David’s and we appear to have no driver!!! Who is responsible for planning the staff rota? Hope I don’t miss my onward train to Leeds..... GWRHelp poor job again."

The person manning the GWR twitter account tried to laugh off the incident, telling Stephen that they could see the train was moving once more, although seemed mildly concerned that he may have carried out his threat to drive the train himself.

Jo from GWR tweeted: "Hi Stephen. I can see you are on your way now. Its not you driving the train, is it??? - Jo."

Jo was a bit more sympathetic with Mary, writing: "Really sorry for the delay to your journey today Mary. I can see you are now moving but I appreciate how frustrating this has been - Jo."

A spokesperson for GWR said: "There is a scheduled driver swap at Exeter St Davids on this service, however due to a short notice staff absence we had to source a replacement driver.

"The train was unfortunately delayed by 20 minutes as a result."

There was a fatality earlier on that day near Newbury, that might have had an effect on crew availability.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightonedee on October 27, 2018, 22:02:54
To be fair, announcements on-board, apologising and keeping passengers up to date with estimated arrival time of replacement driver would have helped.

If the fatality earlier in the day was at the root of it all, frankly it would be better to say so. An announcement that the rostered driver is not available as a consequence of a fatal incident earlier in the day, that a replacement driver is on their way and should be with you in 20 minutes would have kept everyone informed and would have stopped this game of social media chinese whispers. Perhaps there might even have been some sympathy with the problems TOCs and their staff face on a day to day basis.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 27, 2018, 23:30:59
To be fair, announcements on-board, apologising and keeping passengers up to date with estimated arrival time of replacement driver would have helped.

If the fatality earlier in the day was at the root of it all, frankly it would be better to say so. An announcement that the rostered driver is not available as a consequence of a fatal incident earlier in the day, that a replacement driver is on their way and should be with you in 20 minutes would have kept everyone informed and would have stopped this game of social media chinese whispers. Perhaps there might even have been some sympathy with the problems TOCs and their staff face on a day to day basis.

Surely an annoucement on board must have been made?  Otherwise how would everyone who tweeted know it was a driver shortage?  Of course, there might have been a mad scramble behind the scenes to get a replacement driver to the train as soon as they could and so an estimated time of arrival might not have been immediately known. 

The train was at the station for twenty minutes - I know how quickly that time goes by when involved in trying to sort out such things, so to give accurate information isn't always possible, certainly not immediately.  For example, it takes a couple of minutes for the driver to communicate to the guard/dispatch staff that there is no relief for him/her.  A couple more minutes radioing/phoning the resource centre to see who should have been there and why they weren't (there could be a multitude of reasons).  Several minutes can easily elapse whilst things are juggled about and a replacement driver sourced and told.  Then that replacement driver has to get to the train which takes several more minutes depending on where they are at the time.  Before you know it, there's your 20 minutes gone!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2018, 15:14:03
Cancelled due to crew shortage - Friday afternoon - bit chilly for a BBQ?

16:10 Slough to Windsor & Eton Central due 16:16
16:18 Reading to London Paddington due 17:20
16:19 Windsor & Eton Central to Slough due 16:25
17:29 London Paddington to Reading due 18:29
18:31 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 19:50
20:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 21:20
20:57 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 22:23
22:31 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 22:46


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 30, 2018, 15:19:36
I should imagine the closer to Christmas we get the more we’ll struggle with Friday and weekend coverage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2018, 15:46:44
I should imagine the closer to Christmas we get the more we’ll struggle with Friday and weekend coverage.

"We apologise for the cancellation of xxxx service, this is due to a staff Christmas party"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on November 30, 2018, 21:14:55
I should imagine the closer to Christmas we get the more we’ll struggle with Friday and weekend coverage.
Shame as it’s been a great few weeks with virtually no cancellations down to train crew to speak of.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 02, 2018, 10:27:08
I should imagine the closer to Christmas we get the more we’ll struggle with Friday and weekend coverage.
Shame as it’s been a great few weeks with virtually no cancellations down to train crew to speak of.

I can’t see it being that much of a problem, the only issues may be Sunday 23.

For me, coming to work gets me out of being dragged round the shops and Christmas markets!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 02, 2018, 10:44:49

Quote
For me, coming to work gets me out of being dragged round the shops and Christmas markets!

Boo, hiss.  I love being dragged round shops.  Now reached the stage where I'm deposited in a coffee shop to await the returning shopper at some point.  Result  ;D ;D :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 24, 2019, 07:31:43
Back to the usual Sunday routine....cancelled due to "crew shortage" if they were drowning their sorrows following England's defeat in Cardiff yesterday, I have some sympathy.........

14:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
16:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:14
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:06
17:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:45
18:50 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:46
20:03 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 22:35
20:57 London Paddington to Taunton due 22:48


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on February 24, 2019, 08:26:09
Back to the usual Sunday routine....cancelled due to "crew shortage" if they were drowning their sorrows following England's defeat in Cardiff yesterday, I have some sympathy.........

14:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
16:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:14
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:06
17:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:45
18:50 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:46
20:03 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 22:35
20:57 London Paddington to Taunton due 22:48


Well it promises to be a warm February day, warm enough to crowd around a busy barbeque to keep the chill off.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on February 24, 2019, 08:32:32
Well it promises to be a warm February day, warm enough to crowd around a busy barbeque to keep the chill off.

You are a cynic.  Is it also the last day of half term across much of the GWR area?   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 24, 2019, 12:19:49
Half term is of course the main reason.  Doesn't bode well for the coming year on Sunday's though as there is currently more drivers than needed at most depots and training has reached a stage where it is no longer much of a problem.  Since last year all new drivers are required to work their rostered Sunday unless cover can be found - but as I said at the time, that will take years to make much of a difference.  Talks and planning for bringing Sunday into the 'working week' continue still with a target implementation date of December 2020 as far as I know.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on February 24, 2019, 12:32:13
Still better than the non existent service last year


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 24, 2019, 13:01:32
Still better than the non existent service last year

True, though it was mainly Easter onwards until the end of the school holidays when cancellations were commonplace on Sundays last year.  It remains to be seen how this year will compare.  For the record I expect it to be better, but still expect an unacceptably high number of cancellations during high summer especially.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 24, 2019, 16:36:23
Bit of everything on this one!!!

Delayed, shortformed, short of crew and no catering...………...at least the toilets are working? (one would hope!)

14:58 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 19:11 has been delayed at Swansea and is now 22 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. Catering is not available.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 24, 2019, 17:38:05
Such a shame, I thought we had seen the back of this issue especially after a good Christmas/New Year and a good few weeks with little if any cancellations due to crew shortages.

Just for the record the 15.57 Pad-Tau and the 18.34 Tau-Pad have been added to the list along with the 18.51 Swa-Pad terminating at Bristol Parkway.

We can only hope today is just a blip, though I’m not too confident it will be from what II is telling us  :(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 24, 2019, 17:50:51
We can only hope today is just a blip, though I’m not too confident it will be from what II is telling us  :(

I think the weekday and Saturday situation will be much improved this year as the majority of training has been completed and depot establishments are generally very healthy for the work that needs covering.  Though nothing much has changed on Sundays - all drivers who are HSS ones can simply say they're not coming in to work on Sundays providing they give adequate notice.  Two more summers of that at least until Sunday becomes part of the working week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 02, 2019, 09:15:18
Welcome back to BBQ season! (All cancelled today due to "shortage of train crew")



09:10 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 09:56
10:10 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 10:55
12:41 Gloucester to Cheltenham Spa due 12:51
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester due 13:58
14:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 17:59
15:02 Liskeard to Looe due 15:31
15:34 Looe to Liskeard due 16:02
15:50 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:32
16:10 Liskeard to Looe due 16:39
16:42 Looe to Liskeard due 17:10
16:46 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 17:19
17:05 Exeter St Davids to Okehampton due 17:50
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:35 Liskeard to Looe due 18:04
17:56 Okehampton to Exeter St Davids due 18:41
18:15 Looe to Liskeard due 18:43
18:42 London Paddington to Swindon due 19:35
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
19:00 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 22:21
19:49 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 22:27
20:15 Liskeard to Looe due 20:44
20:47 Looe to Liskeard due 21:15
20:51 Swindon to London Paddington due 21:54
21:48 Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:07
23:07 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:59
23:25 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 23:57
00:01 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 00:32


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 02, 2019, 10:02:49
Welcome back to BBQ season! (All cancelled today due to "shortage of train crew")



09:10 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 09:56
10:10 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 10:55
12:41 Gloucester to Cheltenham Spa due 12:51
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to Gloucester due 13:58
14:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 17:59
15:02 Liskeard to Looe due 15:31
15:34 Looe to Liskeard due 16:02
15:50 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:32
16:10 Liskeard to Looe due 16:39
16:42 Looe to Liskeard due 17:10
16:46 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 17:19
17:05 Exeter St Davids to Okehampton due 17:50
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:35 Liskeard to Looe due 18:04
17:56 Okehampton to Exeter St Davids due 18:41
18:15 Looe to Liskeard due 18:43
18:42 London Paddington to Swindon due 19:35
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
19:00 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 22:21
19:49 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 22:27
20:15 Liskeard to Looe due 20:44
20:47 Looe to Liskeard due 21:15
20:51 Swindon to London Paddington due 21:54
21:48 Brighton to Portsmouth Harbour due 23:07
23:07 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:59
23:25 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 23:57
00:01 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 00:32


There are also some curtailed journeys, especially on Cardiff Portsmouth Hbr/Brighton route.   There are some services cancelled which should be calling at Dawlish with an impact on passengers returning home from the Air Show


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 02, 2019, 10:39:24
There are also some curtailed journeys, especially on Cardiff Portsmouth Hbr/Brighton route.
For completeness they are:
15:00 Penzance-London Paddington terminates at Reading
16:35 Cardiff-Brighton terminates at Bristol TM
18:08 Cardiff-Portsmouth terminates at Westbury
19:08 Portsmouth-Cardiff terminates at Bristol TM
20:28 Exmouth-Paignton starts at Exeter St Davids


We’ve seen far worse. Of course there is now delay repay available for those affected.

PS Not looking a great day for a BBQ  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 02, 2019, 12:47:59
Looks like my comments up thread a little will be about right.  Significantly better than the last two years, but still not good enough.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on June 02, 2019, 12:52:36
Looks like my comments up thread a little will be about right.  Significantly better than the last two years, but still not good enough.

Agree, a poor performance, but this should gradually get better and not worse as more new staff displace resignations and retirements.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 05, 2019, 10:55:23

The shortage has reared it's head today in mid-week in the Bristol area affecting Regional West services


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Incider on June 05, 2019, 17:39:41
Looks like my comments up thread a little will be about right.  Significantly better than the last two years, but still not good enough.

Agree, a poor performance, but this should gradually get better and not worse as more new staff displace resignations and retirements.

The amount of resignations from well paid rail jobs is negligible, certainly nowhere near enough to affect service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 06, 2019, 20:44:51

The amount of resignations from well paid rail jobs is negligible, certainly nowhere near enough to affect service.

Is there much movement between TOCs by drivers?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 06, 2019, 21:31:46

The amount of resignations from well paid rail jobs is negligible, certainly nowhere near enough to affect service.

Is there much movement between TOCs by drivers?

I have heard a senior person at a TOC suggesting that it's very frustrating to train drivers just to have them moved to  (be poached by) another TOC.  Qualitative comment though - I have no quantities / percentage data.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 06, 2019, 22:57:09
We used to lose quite a few to Chiltern amongst others.  Following the wages shooting up on GWR, Chiltern drivers are starting to come the other way.  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on June 12, 2019, 05:50:50
Second day in a row, a few of the first Truro-Falmouth services cancelled, no driver


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 12, 2019, 07:40:25
Second day in a row, a few of the first Truro-Falmouth services cancelled, no driver

But it's not B-B-Q weather  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Henry on June 12, 2019, 08:06:24
 I suspect the railway industry will always be reliant on staff working extra hours.
 
 The salary of driver's now probably means they less inclined to work overtime, whereas rail
 companies are reluctant for staff to 'sit spare'.
 
 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 12, 2019, 10:26:28
I suspect the railway industry will always be reliant on staff working extra hours.
 
 The salary of driver's now probably means they less inclined to work overtime, whereas rail
 companies are reluctant for staff to 'sit spare'.
 
 
Same with bus drivers in Kernowland.
Each depot could do with 3 spare staff each day (early morning/mid/late) and a large and small bus spare, but that would cost too much money so would never happen, unfortunately.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 12, 2019, 14:22:05
Second day in a row, a few of the first Truro-Falmouth services cancelled, no driver

But it's not B-B-Q weather  ???

Now, now, stop nicking TaplowGreen’s only best joke.  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 12, 2019, 20:58:39
Now, now, stop nicking TaplowGreen’s only best joke.  ;)

Aww...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on June 12, 2019, 21:07:41

The amount of resignations from well paid rail jobs is negligible, certainly nowhere near enough to affect service.

Is there much movement between TOCs by drivers?

I have heard a senior person at a TOC suggesting that it's very frustrating to train drivers just to have them moved to  (be poached by) another TOC.  Qualitative comment though - I have no quantities / percentage data.

I have a train driving friend whose on his fourth TOC/FOC since 2005. Of course that's only anecdotal data. I know not his reasons for changing employers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 12, 2019, 21:14:48

I have a train driving friend whose on his fourth TOC/FOC since 2005. Of course that's only anecdotal data. I know not his reasons for changing employers.

Twenty quid a week would do it for me, especially if no passengers were involved.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2019, 06:34:59
Sundays cancellations so far.....I'm sure you can guess the reason.......a number of others "amended" too.

Seems GWR still don't have a handle on this, and we're some way from the holiday season yet.


09:15 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:20
10:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
11:49 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:02
12:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
13:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:02
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:53
14:45 London Paddington to Newport South Wales due 16:37
15:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:14
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:57
16:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
17:03 Newport South Wales to London Paddington due 19:00
17:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 18:27
17:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:57
18:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 20:17
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:54


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on June 16, 2019, 07:09:34
Father’s Day maybe?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2019, 08:58:50
Father’s Day maybe?

Quite possibly yes, but compared to this time last year...
Quote
08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
08:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 10:10
09:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:18
10:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 12:10
10:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 12:20
10:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 14:07
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 13:15
11:54 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:24
12:00 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 14:37
12:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 12:58
12:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 14:20
13:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:54
13:20 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:54
13:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 15:15
13:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 15:15
14:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
14:32 Hereford to London Paddington due 18:09
15:00 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:01
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:54
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:28
15:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:18
15:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 17:15
15:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:45
15:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 17:20
15:47 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:09
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:58
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:45
16:27 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:18
16:28 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 19:07
16:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 18:15
16:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 18:20
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:27 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:57
17:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 19:15
17:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:45
17:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 19:10
17:50 Paignton to Exmouth due 19:18
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:56
18:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:45
18:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 20:15
18:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 20:10
18:38 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:07
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
18:56 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:53
19:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:51
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:25
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
19:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 21:10
19:53 Paignton to Exmouth due 21:25
20:09 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:37
20:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:35
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:03
20:28 Exmouth to Paignton due 21:49
20:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 22:10
20:34 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 22:13
20:53 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 21:06
21:23 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:38
21:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:10
21:30 Exmouth to Paignton due 22:56
21:53 Paignton to Exmouth due 23:20
22:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:57
22:05 Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:21
23:00 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 23:52
23:03 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 01:06
23:10 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 23:43
23:29 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 00:04
23:47 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:20


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 16, 2019, 11:27:25
A very interesting comment, surely?
On journeycheck
https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/
11:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 16:21
11:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 16:21 will be started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Penzance, St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard.
This is due to a shortage of trains because of extra safety inspections.
Further Information

If you hold a valid single, return, or weekly ticket, you will be able to claim compensation for delays of 15 minutes or more. Please keep your ticket and visit GWR.com/DelayRepay
Last Updated:16/06/2019 05:10


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on June 16, 2019, 12:50:54
Is "extra safety inspections" of trains, the new term for "we don't have enough trains in working order" perhaps it is considered to sound better than the old "more trains than usual needing repairs"

Some years ago "safety inspection of the track" started to replace the old "track defect"

The logical next step would be "safety checks of the signalling system" instead of "signalling fault"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on June 16, 2019, 14:59:07
If I was to hazard a guess, the ‘safety inspections’ referred to would have been of the overhead line equipment yesterday evening on the B&H line, which could well have caused a train that should have ended at Penzance last night to have actually finished at Plymouth.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 17, 2019, 09:16:21
A good post from member ‘jimm’ this morning over on RailForums as to the possible reason for the cancellations yesterday:

Quote
It might have had something to do with the closure of the line between Newport, Cardiff and Bridgend yesterday, with Swansea crews perhaps not rushing to volunteer to work a Sunday and then spend large parts of their day riding in taxis along the M4 in South Wales.

By the look of it not enough staff at Bristol and Paddington then volunteered to cover what was still running to Newport, plus the Bristol/Weston and Cheltenham services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on June 17, 2019, 21:15:42
Too many drivers -   I don't believe that !

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly09ah.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on June 18, 2019, 19:31:33
Some peak services caped this evening from Paddington due to shortage of drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2019, 20:38:22
Some peak services caped this evening from Paddington due to shortage of drivers.

Yeah I noticed that. I expect they're at Royal Ascot 😉


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightonedee on June 18, 2019, 22:44:35
I was caught up in this today.

I arrived at Reading at about 18-55 hoping to get the 18-57 Electrostar stopper from Didcot. Real Train Times (in the absence of Journey Check which had gone AWOL) showed it on its way from Twyford, but it was shown as "Cancelled" when I arrived - the stock was on Platform 13, empty. Enquiries of the train crew about to take it to the depot confirmed that they did not have a driver available, and I was told that "management" had been aware of this problem for weeks.

The next train was the 19-20 - a stopping train starting at Reading, a Turbo service, all stops to Didcot, then Culham and Oxford. Until May, this was a 2 car service, often from Platform 3. However it is now a 6 car, but 3 locked out of service, train. Why? Because it calls at Culham, which cannot take a train this long, so the second half of the train is an empty stock working on the back of a service train (why not announce that travelers to Culham should travel in the front of the train, like they used to?).

Today there was a 3 car train at 12, ready to be the "empty" portion. The incoming train to form the other half arrived - today, with all the passengers from the cancelled 18-57 waiting, it was just a 2 car Turbo, and one of those gutted of many of its seats at one cab end for the cycle/luggage rack, and also in the main saloon for the second rack. As they buffered up, the rear train was locked out of use as usual.

I counted 202 passengers who had to crowd into the front 2 coaches (I think 170 seats max), while behind then there were over 250 empty seats locked out of use trundling along behind us in the 3 car 165 we could not use....

You couldn't make it up  - do they not like passengers?


 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 18, 2019, 23:27:23
Appreciating the frustration entirely, but this is the sort of thing that used to happen regularly. Nowadays with very few trains booked to call at Appleford or Culham of anything more than 3-cars without SDO it is, at least, a very rare occurrence these days.

Time to empty out and lock the rear set out of use (around 5 minutes) would need to be built into the schedule at either Reading or Didcot for the whole train to be in use. 

You could certainly argue that was worthwhile doing, or accepting that the combination of events this evening (previous train cancelled and this one a 2-car at the front) is worth incurring a delay at either Reading or Didcot for.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 19, 2019, 09:39:10
Too many drivers -   I don't believe that !

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly09ah.jpg)

Not too many drivers, just the wrong sort! There was a report on the BBC Spotlight about the lack of female drivers. Part of that featured a lady who drives IETs now, saying what a good job it is, and that doesn't require any skill a woman can't have. Then there was an interview with a lady who was the first woman train driver in the West country. Porn stuck on her locker, sexist insults, other crews refused to work with her, and the union wouldn't do anything to help.

Comrades, actions have consequences.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on June 19, 2019, 10:01:22
Too many drivers -   I don't believe that !

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly09ah.jpg)

Not too many drivers, just the wrong sort! There was a report on the BBC Spotlight about the lack of female drivers. Part of that featured a lady who drives IETs now, saying what a good job it is, and that doesn't require any skill a woman can't have. Then there was an interview with a lady who was the first woman train driver in the West country. Porn stuck on her locker, sexist insults, other crews refused to work with her, and the union wouldn't do anything to help.

Comrades, actions have consequences.


If women don't apply. so be it.    Just don't discriminate against any who do.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 19, 2019, 14:03:28
Too many drivers -   I don't believe that !

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly09ah.jpg)

Not too many drivers, just the wrong sort! There was a report on the BBC Spotlight about the lack of female drivers. Part of that featured a lady who drives IETs now, saying what a good job it is, and that doesn't require any skill a woman can't have. Then there was an interview with a lady who was the first woman train driver in the West country. Porn stuck on her locker, sexist insults, other crews refused to work with her, and the union wouldn't do anything to help.

Comrades, actions have consequences.


If women don't apply. so be it.    Just don't discriminate against any who do.

There is an awful conundrum between making sure that the railways (and life in general) is open to everyone equally whilst not applying reverse ("positive", ha, ha) discrimination.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2019, 18:15:25
Too many drivers -   I don't believe that !

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2ly09ah.jpg)

Not too many drivers, just the wrong sort! There was a report on the BBC Spotlight about the lack of female drivers. Part of that featured a lady who drives IETs now, saying what a good job it is, and that doesn't require any skill a woman can't have. Then there was an interview with a lady who was the first woman train driver in the West country. Porn stuck on her locker, sexist insults, other crews refused to work with her, and the union wouldn't do anything to help.

Comrades, actions have consequences.


If women don't apply. so be it.    Just don't discriminate against any who do.

There is an awful conundrum between making sure that the railways (and life in general) is open to everyone equally whilst not applying reverse ("positive", ha, ha) discrimination.

A balanced workforce is in everyone's interest in every sector, although some struggle with it far more than others due to a prehistoric culture. Positive action can help to achieve this without resorting to positive discrimination

We've got 2 female electricians and another working her way through an apprenticeship - they're an asset to the Business in all sorts of ways and enable us to deliver a much better service to our customers but you'd have struggled to find many as recently as 10 years ago.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 19, 2019, 20:18:18
A balanced workforce is in everyone's interest in every sector, although some struggle with it far more than others due to a prehistoric culture. Positive action can help to achieve this without resorting to positive discrimination

We've got 2 female electricians and another working her way through an apprenticeship - they're an asset to the Business in all sorts of ways and enable us to deliver a much better service to our customers but you'd have struggled to find many as recently as 10 years ago.

I couldn't agree more. I can think of no trade where a woman could not do the job if she wanted to and trained. They are turning out pretty good at football too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 23, 2019, 08:39:16
Today's "Sunday Special" cancellations so far...............and the sun is shining!

10:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:53
15:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 16:28
16:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
16:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 18:15
17:55 Penzance to Plymouth due 19:55
18:49 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 21:09
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 20:26
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:54
20:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 22:15
21:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:48


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 23, 2019, 09:37:36
Today's "Sunday Special" cancellations so far...............and the sun is shining!


Er. It certainly ain't down yer!  :'( :'(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 23, 2019, 11:16:40
Looks to be about 20% of the HSS cancellations figure we saw on the same weekend last year.  However, given the number of additional services GWR are planning to run next year, will be we back to square one in 2020?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 23, 2019, 16:40:05
Looks to be about 20% of the HSS cancellations figure we saw on the same weekend last year.  However, given the number of additional services GWR are planning to run next year, will be we back to square one in 2020?

It's incumbent on Management to get a grip on the situation.

Using last year as a benchmark to suggest a huge improvement is a bit of a false flag because last summer was an unmitigated disaster on Sundays, pretty much anything would be better and we are creeping back to dozens of long distance Sunday cancellations and/or others being drastically foreshortened.

I note we have the added "bonus" today of catering also being virtually wiped out on the Paddington-Penzance route because of (you've guessed it) staff shortages.

I'd be really interested in GWR's recovery plan for this ongoing situation - does anyone know? Did the MD mention it at the recent Community Rail conference which many Forum members attended?

This is one of the main reasons why the car/road will always win out.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Incider on June 23, 2019, 17:00:05
It just beggars belief that the Sunday working situation has been allowed to go on so long, many other grades have been restructured with Sunday’s in the working week.  Even if a few years ago they had issued new Drivers with contracts including Sunday’s they would be addressing the situation, I can think of no other industry that would put up with an essential part of it not being available by choice.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 23, 2019, 17:44:42
From what I hear it is management side that have been stalling a little on Sunday in the working week talks, rather than the Unions.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 23, 2019, 19:02:09
From what I hear it is management side that have been stalling a little on Sunday in the working week talks, rather than the Unions.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Always easier to let the customers suffer rather than put the hand in the pocket, especially when there's no direct competition to worry about.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 03, 2019, 18:11:25
Cancellations to services between Bourne End and Marlow


Due to a shortage of train crew between Bourne End and Marlow the line is closed.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Marlow will not be served. Disruption is expected until 21:00 03/07.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on July 03, 2019, 23:44:06
Perhaps drivers have been diverted from the Marlow branch to the Henley branch (similar class of engine?) to cover Henley Regatta.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 04, 2019, 00:44:22
It was a guard shortage rather than a driver shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 05, 2019, 15:55:52
Numerous cancellations/alterations again today due to crew shortage. We're not into the school holidays or even the weekend yet so it doesn't bode well. Anyone "on the inside" have an explanation or is it because the sun's out?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 05, 2019, 16:41:22
It is becoming a feature of SWR as well as their journey Check shows.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 05, 2019, 16:49:48
Sounds to me like simple incompetence, failing to engage sufficient staff to run the advertised service.
The weekend position is a little more complex for historical reasons, and is very slowly getting better as new staff are required to work weekends.

However failing to engage enough staff to run the advertised WEEKDAY service, does look like simple lack of recruitment.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 05, 2019, 17:38:16
It is becoming a feature of SWR as well as their journey Check shows.
Hardly surprising considering industrial relations are not good in SWR land.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 05, 2019, 17:57:18
Sounds to me like simple incompetence, failing to engage sufficient staff to run the advertised service.
The weekend position is a little more complex for historical reasons, and is very slowly getting better as new staff are required to work weekends.

However failing to engage enough staff to run the advertised WEEKDAY service, does look like simple lack of recruitment.

Or inefficient management of existing resources?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 05, 2019, 19:23:36
Anyone "on the inside" have an explanation or is it because the sun's out?

I think I tried this time last year explaining the procedures for rostering drivers and the reason Friday evenings suffer the most.  I don’t think I can be bothered to again.

A good question for Mark Hopwood’s session?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on July 05, 2019, 20:57:29
Quote from: IndustryInsider
I think I tried this time last year explaining the procedures for rostering drivers and the reason Friday evenings suffer the most.  I don’t think I can be bothered to again.

A good question for Mark Hopwood’s session?

Any chance of you copying and pasting your last post on the subject? At least you know where to look, and I've only been posting on here since last autumn :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 05, 2019, 21:03:01
Quote from: IndustryInsider
I think I tried this time last year explaining the procedures for rostering drivers and the reason Friday evenings suffer the most.  I don’t think I can be bothered to again.

A good question for Mark Hopwood’s session?

Any chance of you copying and pasting your last post on the subject? At least you know where to look, and I've only been posting on here since last autumn :)

I had a quick look and didn't find it ... will have another look in the morning if no-one else finds the link. We have a couple of experts who typically come on late.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 05, 2019, 21:19:09
I did have a look for it but couldn’t find it.  Anyway, unless I’m missing something the cancellations due to crew were limited to one round trip to Basingstoke and one stopper from Reading to Paddington and back.  Quite possibly all on the same diagram so a shortage of one driver.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 05, 2019, 22:20:11
I did have a look for it but couldn’t find it.  Anyway, unless I’m missing something the cancellations due to crew were limited to one round trip to Basingstoke and one stopper from Reading to Paddington and back.  Quite possibly all on the same diagram so a shortage of one driver.

Nope, there were considerably more crew shortage related cancellations/alterations than that listed earlier, although I do get that Journeycheck is becoming a bit of a joke these days so who knows for sure?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 06, 2019, 00:43:41
A selection of messages saying ‘will now run as scheduled’ so yes I’m guessing solutions were found.  Tempted to alter my forum signature to ‘You can’t trust JourneyCheck’.   :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 06, 2019, 07:11:27
All cancelled/drastically curtailed due to crew shortage. My understanding is that Saturday is part of the contracted "working week"? Why are GWR incapable of managing their resources adequately?


07:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
09:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:40 Exeter St Davids to Paignton
12:22 London Paddington to Moreton-In-Marsh
12:58 Paignton to Exeter St Davids
14:50 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington
16:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
16:55 Penzance to Plymouth
19:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington

07:30 London Paddington to Penzance
08:22 London Paddington to Hereford
08:29 Swansea to London Paddington
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton
11:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:13 Hereford to London Paddington
12:33 London Paddington to Paignton
13:08 Paignton to London Paddington
14:00 Penzance to London Paddington
17:00 Paignton to London Paddington


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 06, 2019, 08:29:48
The Salisbury to Exeter line seems to be getting more than its fair share of train crew shortages; the Corfe service is one of them today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 06, 2019, 10:01:28
The Salisbury to Exeter line seems to be getting more than its fair share of train crew shortages; the Corfe service is one of them today.
And I was thinking of doing the Salisbury to Corfe run in a couple of weeks. Not so sure now if it’s at risk of being canned due to crew issues.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 06, 2019, 10:46:22
So was I. Luckily, living near to Maiden Newton, I can decide on the day, since the decision on the service is only made that morning.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 06, 2019, 12:03:19
My understanding is that Saturday is part of the contracted "working week"? Why are GWR incapable of managing their resources adequately?

Have you suggested that question for Mark Hopwood's upcoming forum chat?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 06, 2019, 12:17:17
My understanding is that Saturday is part of the contracted "working week"? Why are GWR incapable of managing their resources adequately?

Have you suggested that question for Mark Hopwood's upcoming forum chat?

Not yet, but given this is now becoming a far broader issue than last year when it seemed to be largely limited to Sundays, some thought will need to be given to how the question is framed, as I'm sure he'll want to detail exactly what is going wrong, exactly what is being done to address & mitigate it, and exactly when it'll be resolved to provide a reliable service.

As he's now an avid reader of these pages of course, nothing to stop him replying in advance of the "forum chat", himself or via one of his elves?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: REVUpminster on July 06, 2019, 12:34:08
Two trains cancelled from Paignton between the 12.33 and 13.26 which includes the London departure. Just as well the tide is out at Dawlish. or bang goes the XCountry.

Torquay and Paignton are the 3rd and 4th biggest settlements in Devon and it is holiday changeover day; so very poor for a line not technically a branch..


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 06, 2019, 12:38:25
So was I. Luckily, living near to Maiden Newton, I can decide on the day, since the decision on the service is only made that morning.
I do feel for the Swanage Railway. If it’s not strikes bedevilling this Saturday service now it’s lack of traincrew to run it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 06, 2019, 16:52:29
I do feel for the Swanage Railway. If it’s not strikes bedevilling this Saturday service now it’s lack of traincrew to run it.

I feel for them too - not only in lost revenue, but in loss of reputation to have a combined service run as advertised.  And that has an effect long after the day of the cancelled trains.

Sadly, many people learn the hard way that you need a safety net and backup plan if you're going to put your faith in the wider rail industry.   Lesson first learned 15 years ago when all the ducks were in line to start the build of Corsham station and someone pulled the plug on the Bristol <-> Oxford trains which would have served it.  Lesson repeated many times since.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 06, 2019, 17:54:05
They managed to find stock and crew for the afternoon service from Yeovil to Weymouth and return to London. However one more Exeter service(1420) and return (1825) stopped/begins at Salisbury.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 07, 2019, 10:42:35
Various list this morning of services cancelled or altered due to lack of staff, with Bedwyn services operating using 3 car turbos instead of IETs


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 07, 2019, 12:24:29
Various list this morning of services cancelled or altered due to lack of staff, with Bedwyn services operating using 3 car turbos instead of IETs

39 longer distance services with no catering due to staff shortages too.......hopefully Broadgage isn't feeling hungry today!

Seriously however that must represent quite a loss of revenue to GWR as well as goodwill.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 07, 2019, 12:34:46
Broadgage has the sense to avoid weekend trains, unless some exceptional circumstance requires weekend train travel.

No Pullman
No proper first class.
More screaming infants/children.
Greater risk of bustitution.
And increasingly not even a trolley.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on July 07, 2019, 13:05:14
Cor blimey, the're already putting up tomorrows cancellations now and its only just, well one hour past, midday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 07, 2019, 13:09:42
Cor blimey, the're already putting up tomorrows cancellations now and its only just, well one hour past, midday.

Which is a very good thing to do - the more notice the better.  As long as they are cancellations and they’re not cancellations that end up being cancelled!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 07, 2019, 13:11:05
39 longer distance services with no catering due to staff shortages too.......hopefully Broadgage isn't feeling hungry today!
Seems to be quite a high number today. Not the catering team’s annual BBQ today is it?

On a more serious note, at least the train is running and Broadgage isn’t travelling today.

PS Pleased to see the 1203 Paddington-Penzance calling additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary in lieu of the 1142 Paddington-Paignton service being cancelled; though it might be a bit cozy on this train. On any other weekend Westbury passengers can change at Bath Spa but not today with engineering work taking place in the Bath area.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 07, 2019, 13:17:43
Broadgage has the sense to avoid weekend trains, unless some exceptional circumstance requires weekend train travel.
I do as well if I can especially Sundays. It just seems that rail travel on weekends is second rate for reasons you’ve listed as well as train crew shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 07, 2019, 15:08:36
Weekends have certainly become incredibly popular for rail travel within the last 20 or so years.  Back then it used to be steady on a Saturday, dead on a Sunday morning and then get a bit busy on Sunday afternoons - many places had a poor or non-existent Sunday morning service anyway, which is slowly getting better. 

Nowadays Saturday mornings and evenings are very busy, and on Sunday it is busy from the off, building to near (and sometimes beyond) breaking point in the mid-afternoon.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 07, 2019, 15:53:16
Weekends have certainly become incredibly popular for rail travel within the last 20 or so years.  Back then it used to be steady on a Saturday, dead on a Sunday morning and then get a bit busy on Sunday afternoons - many places had a poor or non-existent Sunday morning service anyway, which is slowly getting better. 

Nowadays Saturday mornings and evenings are very busy, and on Sunday it is busy from the off, building to near (and sometimes beyond) breaking point in the mid-afternoon.

Probably best to ensure that there's enough crew available to reflect that before it becomes "dead" again as everyone gives up and returns to the road?

The crew shortage issue is now also seeping into the weekday service as we are seeing, and we aren't even into the school holiday season yet.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 07, 2019, 16:34:55
Yes, indeed, especially on Sundays as we have discussed at length.

There's no sign of much 'giving up' as yet - latest results and journeys are up another 3% on last year to 1.759 billion a year.  I distinctly remember the 'Thanks a billion' poster from around 15 years ago when that mark was hit for the first time since the 60s.  It won't be long before we're at double that!

I'm not trying to make excuses, and the railway is certainly guilty of being slow to react to change, but a look at the graph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#/media/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#/media/File:GBR_rail_passengers_by_year_1830-2015.png) and you can clearly see why the industry has struggled to cope.  Other periods where there were sustained increases at the current rate were when new railways were being built everywhere in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, or in the immediate aftermath of WW1 and WW2 when the infrastructure was there but the demand unsurprisingly suppressed during the war years. 

The last 20 years has seen journeys nearly triple since the low point in 'the good old days' in the 80s and have to be accommodated with hardly any new lines and only very modest improvements to the existing ones.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 12, 2019, 18:45:02
A number of services cancelled this afternoon/evening due to crew shortage but cancelling this one is particularly poor on a Friday night...


23:42 London Paddington to Oxford due 01:01 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 21, 2019, 09:49:04
……..whisper it quietly...….it's the Sunday of the first weekend of the school holidays......the sun is shining, it's perfect BBQ weather...…...there are no cancellations on Journeycheck due to crew shortages...……... :o


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 21, 2019, 10:36:22
You whispered to loudly

Quote
17:12 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:49 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

A couple of other truncations as well


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 21, 2019, 12:35:45
Interestingly the equivalent weekend last year was similar as far as a lack of cancellations was concerned.

We're normally told by those "in the know" that the situation re: availability is much worse during school holidays when drivers want to spend more time with their families and/or go on holiday themselves. Today is the first weekend of 95% of schools being on holiday, and nearly all advertised trains are running for the first time in months. Strange that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 22, 2019, 10:49:13
Interestingly the equivalent weekend last year was similar as far as a lack of cancellations was concerned.

We're normally told by those "in the know" that the situation re: availability is much worse during school holidays when drivers want to spend more time with their families and/or go on holiday themselves. Today is the first weekend of 95% of schools being on holiday, and nearly all advertised trains are running for the first time in months. Strange that.

Sunday you would have been missing drivers who were just commencing their two week holidays with their families.  Next Sunday those will be in the middle of their holidays and there will also be the ones that are starting theirs.  The following Sunday there will be those ending their two-week holiday, those in the middle of it, and those just jetting off.  So, potentially worse next Sunday and at its worst the following ones. 

Though a general improvement in availability should mean things aren't as bad as last year, so hopefully in terms of trains cancelled we won't see as many as equivalent weekends last year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 22, 2019, 11:44:41
Though a general improvement in availability should mean things aren't as bad as last year, so hopefully in terms of trains cancelled we won't see as many as equivalent weekends last year.

Your logic of overlapping holidays is impeccable ... and alerts up, perhaps to a less good situation on coming weekends.

There's some positive vibes to be taken from a comparative "not as bad as" or "better than" but I would much prefer to see an absolute measure such as "good" or "excellent".

Looking (as I do) at my local station, 11 trains out of 29 (38% of them) were cancelled this weekend - that compares to 14% the previous weekend and 13% the weekend before that.  And from what the data streams tell me, every single one of these cancellations over three weekends can be attributed to the rail industry - lack of working signalling, lack of working trains, lack of working staff.   Warm "better than" words may be applicable when compared to last year (or to our worst month every - January 2007) but "good" certainly cannot.

I look forward to consistent weekends where cancellations from the twice yearly published timetable do not exceed 7%. I think that no more than one round trip out of 14 cancelled is a realistic interim target.

 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2019, 08:37:39
All cancelled due to "shortage of train crew"......Gatwick Airport runs on one of the busiest days of the year (those that are running are shortformed) and good luck to those trying to get to/from Basingstoke after work......wonder what the weekend holds?  ???

15:06 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 16:29
15:28 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 16:52
16:04 Reading to Redhill due 17:32
16:32 Reading to London Paddington due 17:33
16:45 Bedwyn to Reading due 17:36
17:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 18:23
17:33 Reading to Basingstoke due 17:59
17:45 Redhill to Reading due 19:18
18:04 Basingstoke to Reading due 18:28
18:12 Reading to Newbury due 18:42
18:33 Reading to Basingstoke due 19:03
18:52 Newbury to London Paddington due 19:54
19:06 Basingstoke to Reading due 19:30
19:35 Reading to Basingstoke due 20:04
20:06 Basingstoke to Reading due 20:30


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 26, 2019, 14:53:22
The 17:33 and 18:33 Basingstoke's look to be reinstated, so the peak time service is now pretty much restored, though several more cancellations either side of the peaks now added.

I know I keep banging on about it, but you have to ask what the point of JourneyCheck is, with a situation so fluid it is out of date almost as soon as the information is posted it seems.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2019, 10:33:42
Almost 30 cancellations as well as foreshortened services today on LTV & the Windsor branch with a number of peak services affected. All down to crew shortage. This is a Monday in the working week (well for most of us anyway) - are we in for a summer of misery, not restricted to Sundays any more?

This is poor workforce management by GWR, no-one else to blame.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on July 29, 2019, 10:52:02
Almost 30 cancellations as well as foreshortened services today on LTV & the Windsor branch with a number of peak services affected. All down to crew shortage. This is a Monday in the working week (well for most of us anyway) - are we in for a summer of misery, not restricted to Sundays any more?

This is poor workforce management by GWR, no-one else to blame.

Gramophone needle must have stuck on todays "Train Cancellations" record too ;-

"This is due to a shortage of train crew."

is the reason, and for no other, for service cancellations when I looked also a minute or so ago.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 29, 2019, 10:55:16
Looks like all fourteen Windsor's were reinstated just ten minutes after TG's post?  In this case, all fourteen would probably have been covered by one driver.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 29, 2019, 12:31:59
Most of the remaining LTV ones also now reinstated.

#youcannottrustjourneycheck


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2019, 13:24:32
Most of the remaining LTV ones also now reinstated.

#youcannottrustjourneycheck

Certainly seems that way. Thanks II


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 03, 2019, 09:56:19
Three Paddington to Cheltenham round trips gone today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 03, 2019, 12:36:32
Some of Devon & Cornwall's local services tomorrow already being cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 03, 2019, 13:48:05
Some of Devon & Cornwall's local services tomorrow already being cancelled.

Hardly anything to Gunnislake


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 03, 2019, 13:49:45
Some of Devon & Cornwall's local services tomorrow already being cancelled.

Hardly anything to Gunnislake

At least there will be an alternative....

Quote
Replacement road transport has been arranged to run in lieu of this train service. Please check station signs and wait for the replacement road transport at the designated stop. The replacement road transport may run later than the advertised train times owing to the additional time taken by road between stations and the time required for loading and unloading at each stop.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on August 03, 2019, 14:51:21
No mention on RTT?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2019, 07:11:07
Welcome to August. All cancelled.


07:26 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance due 11:59
08:19 Romsey to Brighton due 10:08
08:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
11:17 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 12:03
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:21
11:25 Westbury to Frome due 11:34
11:40 Frome to Bristol Temple Meads due 12:40
12:07 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 12:52
12:08 Cardiff Central to Brighton due 16:44
12:35 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
13:37 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 16:43
14:37 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:12
14:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
15:11 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 15:57
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:04 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:49
16:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
17:41 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 18:27
17:46 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:25
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:53
18:35 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 19:20
18:45 Westbury to Swindon due 19:27
19:43 Plymouth to Penzance due 21:36
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:57
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:34
20:01 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 20:47
20:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 20:36
20:45 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:00
20:50 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 21:35


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 04, 2019, 07:36:58
Welcome to August. All cancelled.

[snip]

And that's before you look at short workings.  Just about the only international train of the week from Weymouth is terminated before it gets out of England ...
Quote
08:07 Weymouth to Cardiff Central due 11:30
04/08/19 08:07 Weymouth to Cardiff Central due 11:30 will be terminated at Bristol Temple Meads.
It will no longer call at Filton Abbey Wood, Patchway, Severn Tunnel Junction, Newport (South Wales) and Cardiff Central.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

The cancellations don't come as a surprise - almost routine. What a sad reflection on the organisation that's been running them for so long!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2019, 09:34:58
………...in other words folks, you're on your own;


Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa


Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
Owing to a shortage of train crew there will a significant reduction in the frequency of train services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa. Road transport will operate in place of certain services but the journey times of these road journeys will be greater than that of the rail service that they are replacing. Owing to other issues affecting train services between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham using that route as an alternative would not be a viable option today.

These train service cancellations will also reduce the frequency of train services between London Paddington, Reading and Swindon.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RichardB on August 04, 2019, 12:49:21
Welcome to August. All cancelled.


07:26 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance due 11:59
08:19 Romsey to Brighton due 10:08
08:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
11:17 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 12:03
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:21
11:25 Westbury to Frome due 11:34
11:40 Frome to Bristol Temple Meads due 12:40
12:07 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 12:52
12:08 Cardiff Central to Brighton due 16:44
12:35 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
13:37 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 16:43
14:37 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:12
14:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
15:11 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 15:57
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:04 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:49
16:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
17:08 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
17:41 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 18:27
17:46 Brighton to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:25
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:53
18:35 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 19:20
18:45 Westbury to Swindon due 19:27
19:43 Plymouth to Penzance due 21:36
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:57
19:53 Swindon to Westbury due 20:34
20:01 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 20:47
20:23 Bristol Temple Meads to Clifton Down due 20:36
20:45 Clifton Down to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:00
20:50 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 21:35

Other than when there is disruption due to snow, I can't think of a worse day for the Gunnislake service.  And as we all know, this is one of the (if not the) most unsuitable lines to put buses on in place of trains.  I know it is a very difficult situation (and these cancellations will have only come as a very last resort, after all other avenues had been exhausted) but the people of the Tamar Valley deserve much better than this.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2019, 13:34:42
Owing to other issues affecting train services between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham using that route as an alternative would not be a viable option today.
The other issues being strike action significantly affecting XC services today. What rotten timing to have crew shortages on the same day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rob on the hill on August 04, 2019, 13:55:18
Other than when there is disruption due to snow, I can't think of a worse day for the Gunnislake service.  And as we all know, this is one of the (if not the) most unsuitable lines to put buses on in place of trains.  I know it is a very difficult situation (and these cancellations will have only come as a very last resort, after all other avenues had been exhausted) but the people of the Tamar Valley deserve much better than this.

Quote
13:06 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 13:52
13:06 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 13:52 is being delayed at Bere Alston.
This is due to passengers causing a disturbance on this train.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2019, 16:57:49
Other than when there is disruption due to snow, I can't think of a worse day for the Gunnislake service.  And as we all know, this is one of the (if not the) most unsuitable lines to put buses on in place of trains.  I know it is a very difficult situation (and these cancellations will have only come as a very last resort, after all other avenues had been exhausted) but the people of the Tamar Valley deserve much better than this.

Quote
13:06 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 13:52
13:06 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 13:52 is being delayed at Bere Alston.
This is due to passengers causing a disturbance on this train.



Given the number of cancellations, I'm surprised there was enough space to cause a disturbance - or perhaps that was its nature?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainbuff on August 04, 2019, 22:15:58
Owing to other issues affecting train services between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham using that route as an alternative would not be a viable option today.
The other issues being strike action significantly affecting XC services today. What rotten timing to have crew shortages on the same day.
I don't think it is strike action. Sunday shifts are overtime and there is a rest day working ban in place I think, so not a strike


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 04, 2019, 23:07:24
Owing to other issues affecting train services between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham using that route as an alternative would not be a viable option today.
The other issues being strike action significantly affecting XC services today. What rotten timing to have crew shortages on the same day.
I don't think it is strike action. Sunday shifts are overtime and there is a rest day working ban in place I think, so not a strike

Yes - the RMT ballot result announced on 11th July was "yes" for strike action and for action short of a strike, and the latter started on 1st August:
Quote
1 August 2019

RMT Press Office:

Rail union RMT has confirmed that industrial action will go ahead tonight on Cross Country after the company imposed changes to company-wide agreements with the union after holding negotiations outside of the collective bargaining agreement.

RMT members working for Cross Country have been instructed not to work any rest-days or non-contractual overtime from 23:59 Hours on Thursday 1 August 2019 until 23:59 Hours on Tuesday 6th August 2019.

RMT has made every effort to resolve the issue but has been faced with an intransigent management.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said;

“RMT members on Cross Country are taking industrial action as the company has thrown established practices out of the window and attempted to undermine a recognised trade union at every turn. We cannot and will not allow this to continue.

“As a result RMT has confirmed six days of action where our members will not work rest days or non contractual overtime..

“The union remains available for talks aimed at restoring the collective bargaining agreement. Until then our members on Cross Country will be sending a clear message to management that they expect the company to deal properly with the union that represents them.”

Needless to say that's not how Crosscountry see things.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 05, 2019, 06:28:35
I don't think it is strike action. Sunday shifts are overtime and there is a rest day working ban in place I think, so not a strike
As far as the travelling public is concerned it’s a good as a strike as it’s having the same affect but I see your point.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 06, 2019, 21:24:12
A number of late night cancellations on LTV tonight due to crew shortage. Seems to be becoming the norm on a daily basis, no longer just weekends.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 11, 2019, 07:21:09
Today's collection of crew shortage cancellations and alterations which to all intents & purposes constitute the same
London/Cheltenham service clobbered again & those that are running largely shortened to start/finish at Swindon.


08:28 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 11:06
08:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
09:15 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 11:19
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:21
11:42 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:02
11:49 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:02
12:35 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:44
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:54
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 22:59
10:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:53
14:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:53
18:44 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:45

Question for the mods.......were any questions tabled on crew shortage for the Hopwood Q & A session? If so, any reason why it didnt make the cut? I restricted myself to one question on another subject.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 11, 2019, 08:13:33
Question for the mods.......were any questions tabled on crew shortage for the Hopwood Q & A session? If so, any reason why it didnt make the cut? I restricted myself to one question on another subject.

Questions that did not make the cut will be put forward - I hope in the next week or so - for comment / answer and will be posted in due course.  Personally, I do not know the subjects of those other questions.  The most active mods and admins here have a deep individual involvement in specific aspects and the question review and selection - and thus the follow up - is less immediate;  the six selected questions were then passed through to the active temple for the actual session.  So - if there was a question on this, it ain't just chucked in the bin, and it's in our (forum team) hands.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 16, 2019, 10:17:21
All cancelled due to crew shortage together with numerous other foreshortenings/alterations today - a Friday - which is within the working week as far as I know - this is becoming a joke - do GWR use workforce planning, or is it a case of turn up and hope for the best?

14:48 Reading to London Paddington due 15:46

15:57 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 17:24

16:21 Westbury to Swindon due 17:03

16:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 17:51

16:51 Reading to Shalford due 17:41

17:36 Swindon to Westbury due 18:18

17:58 Shalford to Reading due 18:48

18:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 19:29

19:02 Reading to Shalford due 19:53

19:34 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 21:01

20:02 Shalford to Reading due 20:57

20:42 London Paddington to Reading due 21:41

21:02 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 22:31

21:12 London Paddington to Reading due 22:08

21:26 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 22:53

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:16

23:18 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 00:45

23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:56

23:45 Reading to Oxford due 00:39

23:51 London Paddington to Reading due 00:58

00:22 London Paddington to Oxford due 01:31

01:07 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 01:26


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on August 18, 2019, 10:41:07
From Journeycheck
Cancellations to services between Chippenham and Westbury
Due to a shortage of train crew between Chippenham and Westbury all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or suspended. Disruption is expected until the end of the day
....

Eh? All lines blocked?  Did a few train crew run out of hours & just walk off and abandoned their trains mid track?
Sounds implausible.
Anyone know wasson please?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RichardB on August 18, 2019, 19:51:53
Sadly, after a great Sunday last week on the Tamar Valley Line, the first two trains today were cancelled.

This is Real Time Trains for Gunnislake

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/GSL/2019/08/18/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 19, 2019, 12:54:18
All cancelled due to crew shortage together with numerous other foreshortenings/alterations today - a Friday - which is within the working week as far as I know - this is becoming a joke - do GWR use workforce planning, or is it a case of turn up and hope for the best?

14:48 Reading to London Paddington due 15:46

15:57 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 17:24

16:21 Westbury to Swindon due 17:03

16:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 17:51

16:51 Reading to Shalford due 17:41

17:36 Swindon to Westbury due 18:18

17:58 Shalford to Reading due 18:48

18:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 19:29

19:02 Reading to Shalford due 19:53

19:34 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 21:01

20:02 Shalford to Reading due 20:57

20:42 London Paddington to Reading due 21:41

21:02 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 22:31

21:12 London Paddington to Reading due 22:08

21:26 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 22:53

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:16

23:18 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 00:45

23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:56

23:45 Reading to Oxford due 00:39

23:51 London Paddington to Reading due 00:58

00:22 London Paddington to Oxford due 01:31

01:07 Didcot Parkway to Oxford due 01:26

I imagine a lot of the issues on the Thames Valley are down to CrossRail being delayed and potentially the problem in recruiting qualified drivers into positions they know will be short term.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adrian on August 19, 2019, 19:53:23
Last year, a major cause of crew shortages was given as driver training.  Surely this is no longer a significant factor?

Do GWR currently have the numbers of onboard staff specified in the franchise terms, and are these numbers actually set a high enough level to cover summer holidays?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 19, 2019, 20:16:52
Last year, a major cause of crew shortages was given as driver training.  Surely this is no longer a significant factor?

Do GWR currently have the numbers of onboard staff specified in the franchise terms, and are these numbers actually set a high enough level to cover summer holidays?

I have not found any explicit requirement for on-board staff in the franchise agreement - not even "the franchisee shall employ staff in sufficient numbers". There are a number of station staff requirements, but they are secondary - for example to staff gatelines - and are only mentioned because they are changes introduced during the franchise term.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 19, 2019, 21:53:39
Last year, a major cause of crew shortages was given as driver training.  Surely this is no longer a significant factor?

Do GWR currently have the numbers of onboard staff specified in the franchise terms, and are these numbers actually set a high enough level to cover summer holidays?

It is a problem on the West, and that is where the majority of cancellations (Sunday aside) are happening this year.  Last year it was mainly HSS routes where the vast majority of training has now concluded.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 19, 2019, 22:19:20
If anyone fancies helping to redress the balance there are plenty of opportunities. This one is for East but there are others across the regions.

At 60k + a year I'm not surprised they're not interested in overtime (roughly twice what a staff nurse gets paid, and they have to work Sundays!)

https://g.co/kgs/okgAXR


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 19, 2019, 22:36:24
If anyone fancies helping to redress the balance there are plenty of opportunities. This one is for East but there are others across the regions.

At 60k + a year I'm not surprised they're not interested in overtime (roughly twice what a staff nurse gets paid, and they have to work Sundays!)

https ://g.co/kgs/okgAXR

GWR have recently increased some aspects of overtime payments in order to entice drivers to work their rest days.
Whilst there may still be vacancies in the East at depots like Reading you’d need assurances on job security and future work once CrossRail takes over.  That potentially is enough to put some drivers  off
There is the depot establishment which states how many drivers each depot needs to cover the work allocated to that depot. The majority of the depots are over established. In other words they have too many drivers.  All depots must be fully established when the franchise changes hands.
It’s also worth noting GWR isn’t strictly a franchise. First are running the operation on the instruction of the DfT.  This arrangement is likely to be extended when the current agreement runs out in March 2020


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 24, 2019, 07:00:18
Cancelled or drastically foreshortened....Entire Liskeard-Looe branch gone until midday....on Bank Holiday weekend...;

06:34 Basingstoke to Reading due 06:57
06:38 Looe to Liskeard due 07:03
07:13 Gloucester to Worcester Shrub Hill due 07:53
07:14 Liskeard to Looe due 07:45
07:46 Looe to Liskeard due 08:14
08:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:22
08:17 Liskeard to Looe due 08:48
08:51 Looe to Liskeard due 09:22
09:10 Worcester Shrub Hill to Westbury due 11:36
09:56 Liskeard to Looe due 10:25
10:18 Penzance to Plymouth due 12:27
10:27 Looe to Liskeard due 10:56
10:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 14:10
11:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:07
11:10 Liskeard to Looe due 11:41
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:14
11:42 Looe to Liskeard due 12:11
13:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:06
14:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:41
16:15 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:22
16:55 Penzance to Plymouth due 19:02
18:23 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 19:09
19:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:06
19:13 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 19:58
20:23 Par to Newquay due 21:15
21:18 Newquay to Plymouth due 23:13

05:24 Bristol Temple Meads to Plymouth due 08

06:50 Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton
08:45 London Paddington to Pembroke Dock due 14:12
11:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 16:18
11:28 Newquay to London Paddington due 16:31
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:12
13:08 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:00
14:50 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:16
14:55 Pembroke Dock to London Paddington due 20:30
15:22 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 17:58
18:22 London Paddington to Hereford due 21:35
20:42 Plymouth to Penzance due 22:45
22:05 St Ives to Penzance due 22:30


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 24, 2019, 07:04:35
The list was longer.

Earlier the final train of the day from Penzance to London Paddington was cancelled throughout.  It has now been re-instated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 24, 2019, 07:46:15
Cancelled or drastically foreshortened....Entire Liskeard-Looe branch gone until midday....on Bank Holiday weekend...;

Losses Liskeard to Looe
Gap in the Gunnislakes
No Night (final) service to Newquay

A big problem is the aftermath of cancellations.  Its not just on the effect on the day - it's also the effect on the passengers (or rather) potential passengers in loss of confidence in a reliable service.   I have no figures - and indeed the damage is immediate but recovery is gradual and there's no point at which we can say "it's now back to what it should be".  But I speculate:
Cancel a significant part of. service (late notice) for a day ... and it will take a week to recover 90%
Cancel a significant part of. service (late notice) for a week ... and it will take a month to recover 90%
Cancel a significant part of. service (late notice) for a month ... and it will take a year to recover 90%


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: NickB on August 24, 2019, 10:05:58
+ knock on effect on tourism confidence and subsequent local revenue.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on August 24, 2019, 10:38:52
It makes me sad to see such a list. Just to think of all the people who’s journeys have been disrupted and won’t try again.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 24, 2019, 10:48:09
+ knock on effect on tourism confidence and subsequent local revenue.
It’s a great shame that the ‘holiday lines’ are the ones bearing the brunt of the cancellations/part cancelled services with Cornwall particularly affected.

Sad to also see The Pembroke Coast Express not making it to Pembroke and it’s return service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on August 24, 2019, 11:19:36
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 24, 2019, 11:36:52
No Night (final) service to Newquay

Now reinstated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 24, 2019, 11:38:55
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Looks like another one for journey check then!  :)

In all seriousness, this has happened before one Sunday last year but haven’t seen it since..


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 24, 2019, 11:53:23
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Looks like another one for journey check then!  :)


And the reason given perhaps might be ...
This is due to a member of Internet Crew being unavailable.
This is due to a problem currently under investigation.
This is due to a security alert.
This is due to an earlier security alert.
This is due to an unusually large enquiry flow.
This is due to congestion caused by earlier enquiries
This is due to disruptive enquirers.
This is due to speed restrictions.
This is due to unusual enquiry flow.
This is due to waiting earlier for an internet crew member.
This is due to waiting for an internet crew member.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 24, 2019, 12:00:44
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Seems to have been no tweets for 10 hours......perhaps the Twitter team have been invited to the Drivers BBQ today? (....not sure how the Trade Unions would feel about that?)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on August 24, 2019, 12:43:16
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...
There have been a couple of messages in the last few minutes but these refer to tweets sent hours earlier.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 24, 2019, 14:15:55
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Have noticed 2 or 3 times recently on Saturdays and Sundays but afternoon shift arrived.     I asked the question one Monday as to if there had been any problem on the Sunday and the reply asked me some irrelevant question instead which had nothing to do with the issue.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 24, 2019, 14:50:13
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Seems to have been no tweets for 10 hours......perhaps the Twitter team have been invited to the Drivers BBQ today? (....not sure how the Trade Unions would feel about that?)


The trade unions would demand BBQs for all, but not perhaps that all should attend the same BBQ.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 24, 2019, 14:51:04
Looks like nobody is manning the @gwrhelp Twitter account today...

Seems to have been no tweets for 10 hours......perhaps the Twitter team have been invited to the Drivers BBQ today? (....not sure how the Trade Unions would feel about that?)


The trade unions would demand BBQs for all, but not perhaps that all should attend the same BBQ.

Apparently some staff aren’t being invited to BBQs, including the Union Rep. RMT to issue a statement shortly  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 06:38:01
Meltdown.

Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads
Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Additional Information
Due to limited availability of train crew, services will be reduced on Sunday, the 25th of August, and where trains are able to run, they are expected to be busier than usual.

We will run as many trains as possible, but it is expected that service levels will be significantly reduced, with trains cancelled or amended. Bus replacement services will operate to support trains and will be advertised when resourced.

CrossCountry Strike on Sunday, the 25th of August

CrossCountry will have a reduced train service on Sunday, the 25th of August due to strike action taking place.

08:05 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:15
08:19 Romsey to Brighton due 10:08
08:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 09:30
09:10 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 09:56
09:46 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 12:01
10:10 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 10:55
10:30 Westbury to Swindon due 11:14
10:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
11:10 Brighton to Bristol Parkway due 15:03
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:21
11:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:01
11:28 Swindon to Westbury due 12:08
11:40 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:22
11:42 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:02
12:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 14:15
13:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:02
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:53
14:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:57
14:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
14:49 London Paddington to Hereford due 17:58
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:21
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 20:23
15:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:02
15:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:14
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:36
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:35
16:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:01
16:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:13
16:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:37 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:57
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:53
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:38
18:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:14
18:38 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:04
18:50 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:36
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
19:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:14
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:54
20:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:39
09:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 10:32
09:17 Oxford to Great Malvern due 10:56
10:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 12:17
11:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 12:27
11:49 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:02
13:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 14:28
14:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 17:31
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Parkway due 16:59
14:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 16:13
15:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 16:28
15:55 Paignton to Exmouth due 17:19
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:14
16:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:42
16:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 18:15
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:22
17:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 18:27
17:21 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 18:35
17:35 Penzance to London Paddington due 23:33
17:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:27
17:51 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:16
18:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 20:17
19:03 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 23:43
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 20:26
19:56 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 21:15
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:04
20:28 Exmouth to Paignton due 21:49



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on August 25, 2019, 07:21:25
Meltdown.

Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads
Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Additional Information
Due to limited availability of train crew, services will be reduced on Sunday, the 25th of August, and where trains are able to run, they are expected to be busier than usual.

We will run as many trains as possible, but it is expected that service levels will be significantly reduced, with trains cancelled or amended. Bus replacement services will operate to support trains and will be advertised when resourced.

CrossCountry Strike on Sunday, the 25th of August

CrossCountry will have a reduced train service on Sunday, the 25th of August due to strike action taking place.

08:05 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:15
08:19 Romsey to Brighton due 10:08
08:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:44
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 09:30
09:10 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 09:56
09:46 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 12:01
10:10 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 10:55
10:30 Westbury to Swindon due 11:14
10:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
11:10 Brighton to Bristol Parkway due 15:03
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:21
11:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:01
11:28 Swindon to Westbury due 12:08
11:40 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:22
11:42 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:02
12:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:46
12:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 14:15
13:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 15:02
13:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:53
14:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:57
14:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:47
14:49 London Paddington to Hereford due 17:58
15:00 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:21
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 20:23
15:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:02
15:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:14
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:36
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:53
16:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:35
16:25 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:01
16:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:13
16:42 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:47
17:23 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:49
17:37 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:57
17:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:53
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:38
18:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:14
18:38 Hereford to London Paddington due 22:04
18:50 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:36
18:54 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:24
19:37 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:14
19:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:54
20:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:39
09:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 10:32
09:17 Oxford to Great Malvern due 10:56
10:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 12:17
11:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 12:27
11:49 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:02
13:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 14:28
14:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 17:31
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Parkway due 16:59
14:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 16:13
15:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 16:28
15:55 Paignton to Exmouth due 17:19
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:14
16:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:42
16:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 18:15
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:22
17:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 18:27
17:21 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 18:35
17:35 Penzance to London Paddington due 23:33
17:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:27
17:51 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:16
18:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 20:17
19:03 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 23:43
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 20:26
19:56 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 21:15
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:04
20:28 Exmouth to Paignton due 21:49


Add to that the shortened services ;-

09:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 10:32
09:17 Oxford to Great Malvern due 10:56
10:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 12:17
11:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 12:27
11:49 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 14:02
12:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 14:15
13:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 14:28
14:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 17:31
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Parkway due 16:59
14:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 16:13
15:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 16:28
15:55 Paignton to Exmouth due 17:19
15:59 Newquay to London Paddington due 21:14
16:53 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:42
16:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 18:15
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:22
17:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 18:27
17:21 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 18:35
17:35 Penzance to London Paddington due 23:33
17:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:27
17:51 Bristol Parkway to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:52
18:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:16
18:54 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 20:17
19:03 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 23:43
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 20:26
19:56 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 21:15
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:04
20:28 Exmouth to Paignton due 21:49



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 25, 2019, 07:37:07
In view of the above and the virtually non existent XC services scheduled to run today in the South West, I think GWR should put out an advisory not to travel West of Bristol. Trains would have been busy even if a full schedule were to run. With the forecast hot weather it could be dangerous.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 07:51:02
In view of the above and the virtually non existent XC services scheduled to run today in the South West, I think GWR should put out an advisory not to travel West of Bristol. Trains would have been busy even if a full schedule were to run. With the forecast hot weather it could be dangerous.




No activity as yet on the "here to help 24/7" Twitter feed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 25, 2019, 07:55:28
Meltdown.
Add to that the shortened services

I looked at our cancellation map and noted that South Wales appears to have got off Scot (or is that Welshman) free - until I realised that the Severn Tunnel is bustituted.

A observation.

Scenario 1.

Sometimes, passengers are told well in advance that services are going to be amended because of engineering, strikes, staff shortages, etc, and which services will be running / where they can catch buses. They will grumble a bit but accept these things need to be, and will make use of the alternative services (even if fewer, slower and with changes), planning their journeys against the services that WILL reliably run.   And they will come back to using the trains the following time because they were able to trust the services advertised to them, although limited, in advance.

Scenario 2.

Passenger plan their journeys, but when they wake on the morning of their travel, services that were shown on their journey planner even the previous day when they checked are no longer available.  This will lead to a serious loss of confidence in the rail provisions, a need to replan at short notice (with options that would have been available earlier to them no longer open) and with other plans blown asunder. People travel to and from events, meetings, appointments and not in isolation for other things they have scheduled.  It will take a long time for people who have been let down by last minute changes to trust the railways to provide the service they should be providing again, especially if it turns out the problems were entirely probable but the rai industry hadn't robustly planned to deal with them.

Traveller (or people trying to travel) will - observation again - be very forgiving of major short term disruption if it could not have been realistically predicted, and if they're passed as much customer information as is practical, sooner rather than later.   A person hit by a train, deep snow, a line washing out, person taken ill (or passengers fighting) on a train, an exploding pigeon dislodging brickwork from a bridge onto the tracks - tell people, and they'll accept and understand.  Insult people's intelligence by pretending you'll be running a full service then decimating it at less than 24 hours notice leaves a sour and long-lingering taste.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on August 25, 2019, 07:59:09
The Bedwyn service is a Turbo (3 car) vice IET (5 car), presumably HSS crew replaced by Reading.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 25, 2019, 09:21:38
The Bedwyn service is a Turbo (3 car) vice IET (5 car), presumably HSS crew replaced by Reading.

It’ll be to enable them to run DOO so that a Train Manager can be released to work other trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 10:28:18
GWR Twitter does not seem to be operating today, and having checked the website on my phone GWR is reporting a "good service on most of our network".

Have these people not woken up yet?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on August 25, 2019, 10:38:55
Quote
Have these people not woken up yet?

Perhaps they can't get to work because their train was cancelled  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 25, 2019, 10:42:52
GWR Twitter does not seem to be operating today, and having checked the website on my phone GWR is reporting a "good service on most of our network".

Have these people not woken up yet?


As yesterday, opened with afternoon shift.   With such severe disruption as there is today, the service is more important than ever for people who want to ask for information.

A sticky at the head of the Twitter Page:-

GWR Help
@GWRHelp
We are Great Western Railway, here to help 24/7


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 25, 2019, 10:57:00
Good luck to all the front line staff out there today dealing with the ever so patient and understanding general public...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 12:19:30
Good luck to all the front line staff out there today dealing with the ever so patient and understanding general public...

They'll probably find avoiding sarcasm will help them.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 25, 2019, 12:44:08
Somebody has taken it to them to make a parody GWR account and reply to the complaints instead..
https://twitter.com/Custome08903108


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 25, 2019, 12:44:33
Another very poor performance, which sends out the message to avoid train travel at holiday times and to holiday resorts.
I suspect that some GWR staff are declining to work today as an unofficial show of support for the cross country strikers.
Organised secondary strike action is illegal, but nothing prohibits failing to volunteer for voluntary overtime.
And of course it is barbecue season.

There is very considerable anger in the West country tourist trade about the continual failings of GWR.
Not just the traditional staff shortages, but also breakdowns and general unreliability.
And as for the actual trains, it is not just me that considers the new trains to be a significant downgrade, and to be totally unsuitable for long distance travel.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 25, 2019, 13:06:35
I suspect that some GWR staff are declining to work today as an unofficial show of support for the cross country strikers.
Organised secondary strike action is illegal, but nothing prohibits failing to volunteer for voluntary overtime.

I would be very surprised if that was the case.  Solidarity between TOCs is a dying concept unless over a very serious safety issue.

Much more likely that it’s due to it being the holiday season, when we’re generally a few crew short anyway, and a beautiful bank holiday weekend of weather.

No doubt some staff are indeed attending BBQ’s.  I wish I was!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 25, 2019, 13:09:53
I notice that RTT is not showing all the cancelled trains as cancelled (e.g. 15:25 BRI to PAD).  Is there still some doubt?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 13:25:21
I suspect that some GWR staff are declining to work today as an unofficial show of support for the cross country strikers.
Organised secondary strike action is illegal, but nothing prohibits failing to volunteer for voluntary overtime.

I would be very surprised if that was the case.  Solidarity between TOCs is a dying concept unless over a very serious safety issue.

Much more likely that it’s due to it being the holiday season, when we’re generally a few crew short anyway, and a beautiful bank holiday weekend of weather.

No doubt some staff are indeed attending BBQ’s.  I wish I was!

The way that those within the railway industry casually bat these issues away year after year "Ah well it's August and the weather's nice" is breathtaking.

What a shock you'd have  if we all took the same attitude to our customers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 25, 2019, 13:39:15
It is not just August ! June, July, Easter, Christmas, wet weather, windy weather, and hot weather.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 25, 2019, 13:44:53
Just trying to explain why I don’t think Broadgage’s theory was correct, with a more likely explanation.

The only batting away is going on at Headingley.  I’m as exasperated as you.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 25, 2019, 14:14:08
The most exasperating thing about all this is it’s hard to pin who is responsible for the continued shortage of crew across the rail network; particularly on weekends. Is it the train company, the unions, the dft even British Rail?

All I do know is there seems to be little urgency to sort it as it’s being going on for years.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 25, 2019, 14:15:42
Twitter opened for afternoon shift


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 25, 2019, 15:06:11
The most exasperating thing about all this is it’s hard to pin who is responsible for the continued shortage of crew across the rail network; particularly on weekends. Is it the train company, the unions, the dft even British Rail?

All I do know is there seems to be little urgency to sort it as it’s being going on for years.

The DfT.  It all comes down to money.  If the offer is good enough Sunday’s will become part of the working week. The DfT are the ones preventing this from happening by not stumping up the cash to get it resolved. 
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 25, 2019, 15:26:45
Quote
The Dft
The answer I was expecting.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 25, 2019, 15:33:41
I notice that RTT is not showing all the cancelled trains as cancelled (e.g. 15:25 BRI to PAD).  Is there still some doubt?
It appears a number of services aren’t appearing on RTT but are listed on Journeycheck as being cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 25, 2019, 16:34:52
I wonder if GWR senior mangers are out and about a major stations, to explain to users whats going on (or in this case, whats not going on......)   ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 25, 2019, 16:35:51
Seems to be generally very quiet out there today, certainly at the eastern end of the network.  A Swansea train I was on departed Reading about a third full - and that was with extra passengers due to the previous Bristol train getting canned.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 25, 2019, 16:48:34
Seems to be generally very quiet out there today, certainly at the eastern end of the network.  A Swansea train I was on departed Reading about a third full - and that was with extra passengers due to the previous Bristol train getting canned.

As the middle day of a three day weekend, perhaps nor surprising that it's quieter ... together with so much general press comments about travelling to /from London by train this weekend (the King's Cross closure),  and information out there about the Severn Tunnel engineering too.

Question - if I were to suggest that the number of trains running today, averaged out across the GWR network, was actually quite appropriate for a mid-holiday-weekend day, would you all howl me down?

The biggest problem is than passengers booked or planned well ahead based on the times scheduled and published by GWR, which were then changed on the morning (I think three cancellations were notified yesterday).  Had modified timetables been published (say) three weeks ago when the staff shortage should have been entirely foreseeable, then everyone could have planned well ahead.

Second question - is Bank Holiday Monday in the normal working week, or is it voluntary / special working arrangements too?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 25, 2019, 16:53:05
Normal day for the vast majority of traincrew.  Some get a premium above the usual hourly rate, but for many it’s just a normal weekday shift with no pay uplift.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 25, 2019, 17:18:56
Quote
The Dft
The answer I was expecting.

Indeed. Entirely predictable.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 25, 2019, 17:28:17
Quote
The Dft
The answer I was expecting.

Indeed. Entirely predictable.


But then we will probably come back to that well known question...

Ooooooooooozzzzzz gonna pay for it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 25, 2019, 17:40:16
I notice that RTT is not showing all the cancelled trains as cancelled (e.g. 15:25 BRI to PAD).  Is there still some doubt?
It appears a number of services aren’t appearing on RTT but are listed on Journeycheck as being cancelled.

If short notice they may very well not have been fed down to RTT


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on August 25, 2019, 17:49:28
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff.  But why have GWR not introduced a different C of E for new recruits that does include Sunday in the working week.  It seems to me to be entirely unreasonable for ASLEF or RMT to object to something which does not affect the conditions of their existing members.  If new recruits are happy to sign C of E's with Sundays as part of the working week (and maybe balanced off against benefits like a 4 day working week like TVL Drivers), why should they not be able to?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Celestial on August 25, 2019, 17:54:59
And as for the actual trains, it is not just me that considers the new trains to be a significant downgrade, and to be totally unsuitable for long distance travel.

And you've been doing so well in the last few days...5 days to be precise.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 25, 2019, 18:05:20
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff.  But why have GWR not introduced a different C of E for new recruits that does include Sunday in the working week.  It seems to me to be entirely unreasonable for ASLEF or RMT to object to something which does not affect the conditions of their existing members.  If new recruits are happy to sign C of E's with Sundays as part of the working week (and maybe balanced off against benefits like a 4 day working week like TVL Drivers), why should they not be able to?

The answer is that they have made progress:

This was explained on another board:

GWR have set up a new driver's grade which includes Sundays as part of the working week.  All new recruits go into that grade.  Existing drivers have been offered incentives to join the grade (and therefore have Sundays in their contracts).

Some have taken up the offer but others, particularly those near the end of their service, have opted to remain with their current conditions.  This is particularly the case at Plymouth and Penzance depots apparently.

I am not sure what arrangements are being made for guards/train managers.

All former 'West' and 'Thames Valley' drivers are now in the 'GWR Driver' grade. 'High Speed' drivers (no commitment to work Sundays) have the option of transferring to the new grade or remaining ringfenced until the grade is redundant through natural wastage. For the 'GWR Drivers' Sunday working is however still not in the working week but has 'Committed Sundays' which are still worked as overtime but with the understanding that the overtime will be worked. This normally averages out at 1 Sunday every three weeks. The problem is that unlike a weekday where two thirds of the  grade will be rostered on duty, Sunday will only see one third of the grade rostered on. Extra Sunday services on most routes has put this model under strain. If several of those rostered on are on annual leave, you already have a shortage of crew with volunteers required to maintain the service level. The problem is exacerbated during school holidays with minimal volunteers.

Excellent summary by RA.  I’ll add to it if I may. 

Very few HSS drivers have taken the option of transferring to the GWR driver grade.  As there becomes less and HSS drivers through natural wastage it might reach a tipping point where the rest will follow.  Also, next year, pay parity is achieved - currently GWR ones earn thousands less than HSS ones.

Finally, with all drivers, no sick pay is paid if they don’t come in for their committed Sunday shifts.  The extra money has been traditionally enough to get enough volunteers in.  Higher basic wages mean less people are inclined to volunteer at the sane time as more trains are needed to run.  Come December’s timetable and pay increases next year, that is only likely to get worse.

I really can’t see how Sunday can be effectively resourced, summer time especially, with all the additional trains in the new timetable unless Sunday shifts are brought into the working week. 

Even if all drivers are on the GWR grade committed Sunday deal - note that most cancellations today were on services crewed by former West grade drivers, all of which are now GWR grade drivers and therefore have committed Sundays.





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: AMLAG on August 25, 2019, 18:20:11
There would seem to be a very good case for TOCS reviewing the level of service required at Bank Holiday times.
This would help avoid unplanned cancellations due to resource issues and over provision of services; particularly on BH Sunday and Monday mornings.
Looking in the current very useful and easy to use GWR TOC Guide to Services TT Book  there seem no trains shown as BHX(Bank Holiday Excepted), which used to be a standard practice some years ago for very good operational and commercial reasons.
 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: martyjon on August 25, 2019, 18:30:27
Somebody has taken it to them to make a parody GWR account and reply to the complaints instead..
https://twitter.com/Custome08903108

Page has been removed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 25, 2019, 18:57:36
Somebody has taken it to them to make a parody GWR account and reply to the complaints instead..
https://twitter.com/Custome08903108

Page has been removed.

Can’t say I’m surprised.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 25, 2019, 19:09:48
Looking in the current very useful and easy to use GWR TOC Guide to Services TT Book  there seem no trains shown as BHX(Bank Holiday Excepted), which used to be a standard practice some years ago for very good operational and commercial reasons.

There aren't (in the book - I just took a look) but there are (in practise - checked on Real Time Trains).   

The 06:36 Melksham to Southampton Central is not running - first train that way should be the 09:18.   The 07:20 Melksham to Cheltenham Spa is not running - first trains that way should be 07:50.    Can't argue with either change on a Bank Holiday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 25, 2019, 19:11:56
Of course. I’d forgotten all about BHX. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 25, 2019, 19:14:24
From GWR Twitter

Quote
@GWRHelp: Great Western Railway tickets dated August 25 may be used on services tomorrow, August 26, after today’s service disruption. This includes Advance tickets. Please travel at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your patience today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TM on August 25, 2019, 21:42:05
The most exasperating thing about all this is it’s hard to pin who is responsible for the continued shortage of crew across the rail network; particularly on weekends. Is it the train company, the unions, the dft even British Rail?

All I do know is there seems to be little urgency to sort it as it’s being going on for years.

Pritvatisation takes a large part of the blame in my book.  Previously drivers were a common resource working for one company.  Splitting into myriad different companies is inherently inefficient. 

Great Western have a tiny depot in Weymouth so when short of crew a train has to be cancelled.  Most of the time South West Railway will have a spare drive who could have covered the work in British Rail days.  So a driver or guard are available just not the right one.

When new trains are introduced into an area it means a large part of the workforce for the Train Operating Company need training.  Ideally you would recruit extra drivers for 18 months but that is not a realistic option.  So you have to rely on overtime working which is fine for most of the year but there inevitable pinch points, such as a bank holiday, when you will not get sufficient volunteers so trains have to be cancelled.

Don't forget Great Western have a huge increase in service in December and the staff have to be trained.  Usually for the peak summer season you would stop the training for 6 to 8 weeks.  However this is not really an option with a hard deadline of timetable change in December.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainbuff on August 25, 2019, 22:08:36
Another very poor performance, which sends out the message to avoid train travel at holiday times and to holiday resorts.
I suspect that some GWR staff are declining to work today as an unofficial show of support for the cross country strikers.
Organised secondary strike action is illegal, but nothing prohibits failing to volunteer for voluntary overtime.
And of course it is barbecue season.

There is very considerable anger in the West country tourist trade about the continual failings of GWR.
Not just the traditional staff shortages, but also breakdowns and general unreliability.
And as for the actual trains, it is not just me that considers the new trains to be a significant downgrade, and to be totally unsuitable for long distance travel.

Its not a strike for cross country. Sundays are voluntary and overtime. There is an overtime ban in place!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: trainbuff on August 25, 2019, 22:13:14
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff.  But why have GWR not introduced a different C of E for new recruits that does include Sunday in the working week.  It seems to me to be entirely unreasonable for ASLEF or RMT to object to something which does not affect the conditions of their existing members.  If new recruits are happy to sign C of E's with Sundays as part of the working week (and maybe balanced off against benefits like a 4 day working week like TVL Drivers), why should they not be able to?

I have seen this happen in the bus industry. After a while when critical mass is reached the old staff are just told they will be on new contracts. I suspect ASLEF and RMT know this


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 25, 2019, 22:17:17
The most exasperating thing about all this is it’s hard to pin who is responsible for the continued shortage of crew across the rail network; particularly on weekends. Is it the train company, the unions, the dft even British Rail?

All I do know is there seems to be little urgency to sort it as it’s being going on for years.

Pritvatisation takes a large part of the blame in my book.  Previously drivers were a common resource working for one company.  Splitting into myriad different companies is inherently inefficient. 

Great Western have a tiny depot in Weymouth so when short of crew a train has to be cancelled.  Most of the time South West Railway will have a spare drive who could have covered the work in British Rail days.  So a driver or guard are available just not the right one.

When new trains are introduced into an area it means a large part of the workforce for the Train Operating Company need training.  Ideally you would recruit extra drivers for 18 months but that is not a realistic option.  So you have to rely on overtime working which is fine for most of the year but there inevitable pinch points, such as a bank holiday, when you will not get sufficient volunteers so trains have to be cancelled.

Don't forget Great Western have a huge increase in service in December and the staff have to be trained.  Usually for the peak summer season you would stop the training for 6 to 8 weeks.  However this is not really an option with a hard deadline of timetable change in December.



I thought GWR only had guards at Weymouth, Westbury drivers are taxied morning and night


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 26, 2019, 07:27:32
From GWR Twitter

Quote
@GWRHelp: Great Western Railway tickets dated August 25 may be used on services tomorrow, August 26, after today’s service disruption. This includes Advance tickets. Please travel at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your patience today.

I guess that appeared long after pax had started their journeys. I know of folk starting out at Paignton or Torquay expecting easy connections at Newton Abbot - only to find they were in for a loooooooooooong wait as successive services were cancelled. If they had known that their cancelled service was actually starting at Exeter, they could have stayed onboard the local service, but no... the information was not available!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 26, 2019, 08:06:44
I guess [that] appeared long after pax had started their journeys. I know of folk starting out at Paignton or Torquay expecting easy connections at Newton Abbot - only to find they were in for a loooooooooooong wait as successive services were cancelled. If they had known that their cancelled service was actually starting at Exeter, they could have stayed onboard the local service, but no... the information was not available!

It rather reminds everyone just how important information is at the point of travel ... and perhaps how much better it could be if the cloth of services was tailored to fit the resources available (and predictable!) a week or two ahead, rather than in an overnight patch-up job.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 26, 2019, 08:08:36
From GWR Twitter

Quote
@GWRHelp: Great Western Railway tickets dated August 25 may be used on services tomorrow, August 26, after today’s service disruption. This includes Advance tickets. Please travel at the earliest opportunity.

Thank you for your patience today.

I guess that appeared long after pax had started their journeys. I know of folk starting out at Paignton or Torquay expecting easy connections at Newton Abbot - only to find they were in for a loooooooooooong wait as successive services were cancelled. If they had known that their cancelled service was actually starting at Exeter, they could have stayed onboard the local service, but no... the information was not available!

Yep the "here to help 24/7" Twitter service didn't wake up until 1pm and the website wasn't updated until about the same time, by which time most of the damage had been done to people's plans.

Given the amount of overcrowding which can be expected today as people return from the long weekend, adding on a lot of other people whose plans were ruined yesterday who are having to travel today instead and combining it with the forecast heat means conditions will probably be pretty horrific.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 26, 2019, 08:14:51
Given the amount of overcrowding which can be expected today as people return from the long weekend, adding on a lot of other people whose plans were ruined yesterday who are having to travel today instead and combining it with the forecast heat means conditions will probably be pretty horrific.

A number of these today.

Quote
07:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:52
Facilities on the 07:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:52.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 9.

Very curious that train crew shortage is resulting in shorter trains.  Mostly look to be north and south Cotswold services which - at least - are not the seaside services we might expect to besot heavily loaded today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 26, 2019, 08:51:42
Very curious that train crew shortage is resulting in shorter trains.  Mostly look to be north and south Cotswold services which - at least - are not the seaside services we might expect to besot heavily loaded today.

2 x 5 coach trains presumably need a member of traincrew in each half, so it is not driver who are the problem, but conductors/train managers or whatever they are called these days. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 26, 2019, 08:58:37
Or trains ended up in the wrong place at the end of yesterday due to cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Celestial on August 26, 2019, 11:16:47
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff. 

I do. If businesses had not been able to change C of E's then we would still have typing pools full of elderly ladies awaiting their retirement with nothing to do. And lots of other examples where the world has moved on and businesses need to adapt.  It's unrealistic to enter a job at 18 and think that your terms and conditions are protected for the next 50 years until you reach state retirement age. The only reason it is resisted on the railway is that it has a monopoly position and the unions are very effective in using that position.  Others will argue that they are only doing the best for their members, but that doesn't make it right for society as a whole.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on August 26, 2019, 11:35:05
A contract of employment is what it says it is – a contract.  Neither side can unilaterally amend it without the agreement of the other.  No C of E give you job security for life – the typing pool ladies would have been made redundant or offered alternative employment in accordance with employment legislation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Celestial on August 26, 2019, 11:43:37
A contract of employment is what it says it is – a contract.  Neither side can unilaterally amend it without the agreement of the other.  No C of E give you job security for life – the typing pool ladies would have been made redundant or offered alternative employment in accordance with employment legislation.

True, but in my long experience, I always had two choices - to agree the change or find another employer.  Of course, the changes they were looking for weren't unreasonable, so I agreed, along with everyone else. But it's different in the railway world, as you can't train a driver up in a week, so they have the muscle to resist change. And do so with great success it would seem.

On the point in question, I don't think it is reasonable for someone who joins at 18 the day before a change making Sunday working contractual should expect to go the next 50 years without moving into line.   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CMRail on August 26, 2019, 11:58:53
Very curious that train crew shortage is resulting in shorter trains.  Mostly look to be north and south Cotswold services which - at least - are not the seaside services we might expect to besot heavily loaded today.

2 x 5 coach trains presumably need a member of traincrew in each half, so it is not driver who are the problem, but conductors/train managers or whatever they are called these days. 

Generally this weekend 10 car units have been down to just one Customer Host in the set. The agreement is that the Train Manager must operate from the rear 5 coaches and a competent member of staff who can perform evacuations are in the front 5 carriages. This can be a “Customer Host Lead”.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 26, 2019, 12:39:10
None of the short forms today, of which there are very few anyway thankfully, are on routes where 10-car trains currently run, so I’m at a loss as to why crew shortage has been attributed as the reason.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 26, 2019, 12:41:58
None of the short forms today, of which there are very few anyway thankfully, are on routes where 10-car trains currently run, so I’m at a loss as to why crew shortage has been attributed as the reason.

Shortage of staff to go and find out the real reason?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TM on August 26, 2019, 12:42:19
None of the short forms today, of which there are very few anyway thankfully, are on routes where 10-car trains currently run, so I’m at a loss as to why crew shortage has been attributed as the reason.

Its one of those reason which on the face of it sound wrong but when explained fully make sense !  Because of the train crew shortages yesterday sets were out of place.  I believe Stoke Gifford had too many sets and North Pole not enough.  So services started from Paddington were short formed by splitting a 10 car.

So yes train crew shortages but from yesterday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 12:52:45
Quote from: TM
So yes train crew shortages but from yesterday.

So its not a train crew shortage today then, is it? It's a rolling stock shortage at North Pole today, so the public should be told that.

The use of the excuse "Train crew shortage" for today is therefore wrong, and giving customers information that theycan see for themselves isn't right is hardly best business practice.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 26, 2019, 14:16:31
Quote from: TM
So yes train crew shortages but from yesterday.

So its not a train crew shortage today then, is it? It's a rolling stock shortage at North Pole today, so the public should be told that.

The use of the excuse "Train crew shortage" for today is therefore wrong, and giving customers information that theycan see for themselves isn't right is hardly best business practice.

That's because they quote the root cause


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 14:31:55
Quote from: TM
So yes train crew shortages but from yesterday.

So its not a train crew shortage today then, is it? It's a rolling stock shortage at North Pole today, so the public should be told that.

The use of the excuse "Train crew shortage" for today is therefore wrong, and giving customers information that theycan see for themselves isn't right is hardly best business practice.

That's because they quote the root cause

Then perhaps they should stop it. Try looking at this from the passenger's perspective - the ordinary Joe Public passenger who knows nothing technical about railway operations, unlike many on here whose views may be more rose coloured because they do understand about those technicalities and practicalities.

The passengers are standing on the platform waiting for their train, perhaps with a reservation. The train pulls in and they find that the coach that contains their seat isn't there. They are told that this is due to staff shortages. But where is the evidence for that? There's a driver up the front, there's some geezer making announcements saying he's the train manager, there's another geezer trying to flog tea coffee and sandwiches. Where's the staff shortage? Haven't they got the staff to couple two units together? Haven't they got the staff to build the train?

It will not make sense to the normal passenger, and therefore it shouldn't be done. It makes as much sense as Sainsbury's announcing there's no cans of peas on the shelf due to staff shortages, when the ferry bringing the pallets in from Calais was delayed by a docker's strike.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 14:41:24
A contract of employment is what it says it is – a contract.  Neither side can unilaterally amend it without the agreement of the other. 

I agree, but since I left school and joined the railway in 1969 there have been many changes to conditions of employment for train crews. For example:

Abolition of freight guards
Abolition of Secondmen
Flexible rostering - once upon a time the 8 hour day was sacrosanct
DOO

What is so different in principle about Sundays? It seems to be being lost that if Sunday was part of the working week then that would not mean that staff would have to work any longer. It would simply means making the working week 7 days rather than 6, with no basic change in a 5-day working week pattern, so staff would then have two rest days per week rather than one rest day plus Sunday off duty.

At present we appear to have the situation where any work on Sunday is overtime and therefore paid at enhanced rates, and if the staff member has already reached the 40% tax bracket then 40% of that extra income would be going to the Treasury. Perhaps some would be happier with two rest days per week?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 26, 2019, 14:49:41
Sunday negotiations are ongoing.  I believe the emphasis has shifted from more money towards having more time off instead.  More drivers are needed either way, so the long planned introduction date of December 2020 is still achievable if collective fingers are pulled out.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 26, 2019, 15:55:11
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff. 

I do. If businesses had not been able to change C of E's then we would still have typing pools full of elderly ladies awaiting their retirement with nothing to do. And lots of other examples where the world has moved on and businesses need to adapt.  It's unrealistic to enter a job at 18 and think that your terms and conditions are protected for the next 50 years until you reach state retirement age. The only reason it is resisted on the railway is that it has a monopoly position and the unions are very effective in using that position.  Others will argue that they are only doing the best for their members, but that doesn't make it right for society as a whole.

If you can change C or E's at will then the C or E isn't worth the paper its written on.

Sunday's will become part of the working week, I have no doubt.  The C or E's will only be changed when both parties accept the agreement and for that to happen, both have to receive some benefit to the new C or E either from increased salary to take into account the additional or other improvements to conditions such as time off. 
I'm guessing as well, but bringing Sunday's into the working week will also effect pensions so its not just a straight forward pay rise. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 26, 2019, 16:23:06
Train crew aren’t going to have their contracts amended and give up their Sundays, their guaranteed day with their families, for nothing.  In fact, for some, no amount of money will get them to accept Sundays as part of the working week. 

I agree it's unreasonable to amend existing C of E's for existing staff. 

I do. If businesses had not been able to change C of E's then we would still have typing pools full of elderly ladies awaiting their retirement with nothing to do. And lots of other examples where the world has moved on and businesses need to adapt.  It's unrealistic to enter a job at 18 and think that your terms and conditions are protected for the next 50 years until you reach state retirement age. The only reason it is resisted on the railway is that it has a monopoly position and the unions are very effective in using that position.  Others will argue that they are only doing the best for their members, but that doesn't make it right for society as a whole.

If you can change C or E's at will then the C or E isn't worth the paper its written on.

Sunday's will become part of the working week, I have no doubt.  The C or E's will only be changed when both parties accept the agreement and for that to happen, both have to receive some benefit to the new C or E either from increased salary to take into account the additional or other improvements to conditions such as time off. 
I'm guessing as well, but bringing Sunday's into the working week will also effect pensions so its not just a straight forward pay rise. 

Have the Unions come up with a figure/% for the salary increase that they consider reasonable to bring Sundays into the working week?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 16:36:37
Quote from: a-driver
I'm guessing as well, but bringing Sunday's into the working week will also effect pensions so its not just a straight forward pay rise. 

How would such a change affect pensions?

Pension contributions are normally a percentage of gross salary, so to simplify if its 10% then if you earn £500pw its £50 or if you earn £1000pw its £100. It would make no difference at all what day of the week you earned it on.
 ???



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 26, 2019, 16:46:45

Have the Unions come up with a figure/% for the salary increase that they consider reasonable to bring Sundays into the working week?

I would imagine so but I don't know an exact figure, I'd guess you'd be looking at a minimum of £5k based on a straight payrise but then you have to take into account tax.  You wouldn't see much of your £5k payrise after tax which is why they are so reluctant to give up Sunday's (the tax situation is probably one of the reasons as well that there's a lack of volunteers to work them)
You'd get a greater benefit from £5k worth of improvements to conditions such as a shorter working week and a lot of drivers are aware of this.  You can't fix everything by simply throwing money at the problem.  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 26, 2019, 16:53:41

Have the Unions come up with a figure/% for the salary increase that they consider reasonable to bring Sundays into the working week?

I would imagine so but I don't know an exact figure, I'd guess you'd be looking at a minimum of £5k based on a straight payrise but then you have to take into account tax.  You wouldn't see much of your £5k payrise after tax which is why they are so reluctant to give up Sunday's (the tax situation is probably one of the reasons as well that there's a lack of volunteers to work them)
You'd get a greater benefit from £5k worth of improvements to conditions such as a shorter working week and a lot of drivers are aware of this.  You can't fix everything by simply throwing money at the problem.  

That's interesting, given your line yesterday was  "It all comes down to money.  If the offer is good enough Sunday’s will become part of the working week. The DfT are the ones preventing this from happening by not stumping up the cash to get it resolved" - clearly there is considerable flexibility, even over the course of 24 hours!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 26, 2019, 16:56:33
Quote from: a-driver
I'm guessing as well, but bringing Sunday's into the working week will also effect pensions so its not just a straight forward pay rise. 

How would such a change affect pensions?

Pension contributions are normally a percentage of gross salary, so to simplify if its 10% then if you earn £500pw its £50 or if you earn £1000pw its £100. It would make no difference at all what day of the week you earned it on.
 ???



Sorry, i'm not that clued up on pensions, even though at my age I probably should be!  It was explained to me and I've totally forgotten it, but's its effects the company more than the individual.  Currently Sunday pay overtime isn't pensionable, so by bringing Sunday's into the working week means you would need to recruit substantially more drivers, therefore the company finds themselves contributing more (I think!)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 26, 2019, 17:02:17

That's interesting, given your line yesterday was  "It all comes down to money.  If the offer is good enough Sunday’s will become part of the working week. The DfT are the ones preventing this from happening by not stumping up the cash to get it resolved" - clearly there is considerable flexibility, even over the course of 24 hours!  :)

It does all come down to money.  Wether you go for a straightforward payrise or an improvement in conditions it all costs the company money.  The age of your workforce is also factor. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 26, 2019, 19:07:31
That's because they quote the root cause
Then perhaps they should stop it. Try looking at this from the passenger's perspective

I'm not sure they're quoting the true root cause even in saying "staff shortage".  Haven't we established a strong view that the staff shortage is caused by a failure to update a system which fails to provide enough staff to run all the trains timetabled, especially on Sundays, and that this failure is due to lack of government funding for a solution. "This is due to insufficient funding to provide the service scheduled" may be the true root.   But perhaps not helpful

The immediate cause?  For all service bar the first on a diagram "This is due to the incoming train being short" ...

It needs to be somewhere in between, I think - a matter go judgment of what will give the typical passenger (and many members here are not typical passengers!) a quick idea of whats going / gone on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 19:20:19
Quote from: grahame

The immediate cause?  For all service bar the first on a diagram "This is due to the incoming train being short" ...

It needs to be somewhere in between, I think - a matter go judgment of what will give the typical passenger (and many members here are not typical passengers!) a quick idea of whats going / gone on.

For the average Joe Public who knows nothing about these matters:

"This is due to trains being in the wrong place after disruption yesterday"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 19:49:12
Quote from: a-driver
Sorry, i'm not that clued up on pensions, even though at my age I probably should be!  It was explained to me and I've totally forgotten it, but's its effects the company more than the individual.  Currently Sunday pay overtime isn't pensionable, so by bringing Sunday's into the working week means you would need to recruit substantially more drivers, therefore the company finds themselves contributing more (I think!)

Apologies in advance for this post going into deep technical matters that ought really to be posted in “How Stuff Works”  :)

As I have always understood the situation, contributions to private pensions operate in the same way as NI contributions which pay for your State Pension ie. The more you earn the more you pay. Therefore ay overtime earnings you make will attract the same percentage pension deduction as would an ordinary day’s work. I might be wrong on that, and it’s now been 15 years since I contributed to a private pension so even if I checked mu old payslips the system might have changed by now. Perhaps someone currently paying in to a railway private pension scheme could let us know whether the in-payments are a fixed monthly sum or whether they vary depending on income in any given month?

Employer’s contributions may be different in any case, but there are only two realistic alternatives:

A) They are a percentage of the total salary bill, or
b) They are based on the basic salary for each post, irrespective of any enhancements or overtime

If (a) applies then including Sundays in the working week would make no difference at all. The employer’s contribution would be a percentage of the total salary bill, irrespective of how large or small that bill might be in different months.

If (b) applies then any increase in staff – for whatever reason – would increase employer’s total pension contributions. However, as this thread has been rattling on for 80 pages and is about staff shortages, it is abundantly clear that the current establishment is too small, and that this matter needs dealing with pronto anyway.

Finally, we are really talking about small sums of money where large companies are concerned. “We can’t possibly do that because it will cost us X million” is often the cry. But whilst “X million” is a huge sum of money to the likes of us and our personal finances, it is loose change down the back of the sofa to First Group…


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 26, 2019, 20:23:27
Quote from: a-driver
Sorry, i'm not that clued up on pensions, even though at my age I probably should be!  It was explained to me and I've totally forgotten it, but's its effects the company more than the individual.  Currently Sunday pay overtime isn't pensionable, so by bringing Sunday's into the working week means you would need to recruit substantially more drivers, therefore the company finds themselves contributing more (I think!)

Apologies in advance for this post going into deep technical matters that ought really to be posted in “How Stuff Works”  :)

As I have always understood the situation, contributions to private pensions operate in the same way as NI contributions which pay for your State Pension ie. The more you earn the more you pay. Therefore ay overtime earnings you make will attract the same percentage pension deduction as would an ordinary day’s work. I might be wrong on that, and it’s now been 15 years since I contributed to a private pension so even if I checked mu old payslips the system might have changed by now. Perhaps someone currently paying in to a railway private pension scheme could let us know whether the in-payments are a fixed monthly sum or whether they vary depending on income in any given month?

Employer’s contributions may be different in any case, but there are only two realistic alternatives:

A) They are a percentage of the total salary bill, or
b) They are based on the basic salary for each post, irrespective of any enhancements or overtime

If (a) applies then including Sundays in the working week would make no difference at all. The employer’s contribution would be a percentage of the total salary bill, irrespective of how large or small that bill might be in different months.

If (b) applies then any increase in staff – for whatever reason – would increase employer’s total pension contributions. However, as this thread has been rattling on for 80 pages and is about staff shortages, it is abundantly clear that the current establishment is too small, and that this matter needs dealing with pronto anyway.

Finally, we are really talking about small sums of money where large companies are concerned. “We can’t possibly do that because it will cost us X million” is often the cry. But whilst “X million” is a huge sum of money to the likes of us and our personal finances, it is loose change down the back of the sofa to First Group…


Payments into the pension are a fixed monthly sum based on the basic salary.

Staff levels are correct, actually in a lot of depots they are overstaffed, according to the depot establishment calculators as defined by the DfT.  This doesn't take into consideration large levels of training which is currently ongoing.  To include Sunday's in the working week wouldn't require just a handful of additional drivers, you would need hundreds then you need to factor in the cost of training these extra drivers, the fact they would be non-productive for about a year.  Believe it or not, "X million" is the difference between profit and loss for some franchises, the operating margins are extremely small.  This is why you see companies sharing the financial risk when bidding for franchises.  Operating trains is high risk for little reward.  If you want to be in the business of making large amounts of profit you need to be in the business of leasing trains. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Celestial on August 26, 2019, 20:25:10
I'm not sure that is correct.  When I got overtime, I didn't pay pension contributions on it. Which seemed fair, as my "final salary" would not be increased by any amount of overtime I had done over the years. So I would have been paying it for nothing.

Not sure about the employer though. That could be different, but if it isn't then I can see that having part of earnings without pension contribution would be a big saving. I seem to recall being told that the reason my final salary scheme was closing was because the employer couldn't be expected to pay 20pc+ of salary.  It was obviously too good to last (for most of us anyway).  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 26, 2019, 20:49:05
Apologies in advance for this post going into deep technical matters that ought really to be posted in “How Stuff Works”  :)

Not a bad idea ... except for the small problem that (and I need to go back and check) that several of the active posters in this thread aren't there ... no reason at all they couldn't be, but the idea of that area is to let people choose whether they want a heavier technical feed.

Let's keep it as it is ... but in a separate thread put another reminder or two to people to ask to be added to "transport scholars" group.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 26, 2019, 22:29:11
Thanks to both Celestial and a-driver for their input. Now this is making a lot more sense.

If Sunday working is currently not costing anyone anything in pension contributions then to include it in the working week would put employers contributions up by 16.66% (ie up by one sixth from the present situation). I can therefore see the logic in GWR   trying to introduce the concept of Committed Sundays into contracts of employment to save themselves some money.

There are however a number of significant downsides to that position:

1.   By keeping Sundays as extra work (by whichever name) they are expecting/ hoping that staff are willing to do additional hours over and above their basic contracted hours
2.   Some staff may be unwilling to do extra hours for personal reasons, be they family-related or not wanting to pay nearly half of it in tax. Other reasons are no doubt available
3.   If GWR (and presumably other TOCs) are reliant on staff being willing to work overtime to cover Sunday turns of duty they can never fully guarantee that their advertised service will in fact run, because it relies on staff willing to work and not contracted to work. There is a big potential difference

A-driver tells us that “a lot of depots are overstaffed, according to the depot establishment calculators as defined by the DfT.” Whilst he qualifies that by saying that training is not taken onto account, there may well be other factors that are not being taken into account by the DfT either. What I am saying is that just because the DfT has a formula for calculating depot establishment levels, the situation in the real world away from Whitehall ivory towers may be a little different. We are effectively being asked to believe that depots are overstaffed because the DfT says so according to their formula. Um... – yeah right…

In the meantime and in the real world, significant numbers of trains are being cancelled day in day out. Personally I couldn’t give a monkey’s what the DfT computer model says about establishment requirements when this shambles is going on.

It strikes me that if GWR and other TOCs (and the DfT come to that) are unwilling to grasp the nettle of incorporating Sundays into the working week, they need to stop pretending that they can guarantee to run the service they are currently advertising in their timetables. Reduce the service – let the politicians deal with the complaints – and see how they get on come the next election…

Either that or the government in general and the DfT in particular should get out of trying to micromanage railways and leave it to people who understand how these things actually work


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on August 26, 2019, 22:37:52
On the point in question, I don't think it is reasonable for someone who joins at 18 the day before a change making Sunday working contractual should expect to go the next 50 years without moving into line.   


Sunday's will become part of the working week, I have no doubt.  The C or E's will only be changed when both parties accept the agreement and for that to happen, both have to receive some benefit to the new C or E either from increased salary to take into account the additional or other improvements to conditions such as time off. 
I'm guessing as well, but bringing Sunday's into the working week will also effect pensions so its not just a straight forward pay rise. 

In a similar situation, my former employer decided that the department needed to move with the times, and proposed extending closing time to 8pm (from 5pm) weekdays and opening on Saturdays. People would work the unsociable hours, as they were seen, in rotation, so you could expect maybe one Staurday and two evenings in a month, but would not work any more hours. This was achieved by making the change of conditions a part of the pay offer. Anyone who signed up to it by the end of April 2016 would receive a pay rise of 2½%, effective from 1 July, with the new rostered hours coming into force from 1 October. Anyone who didn't sign up retained their former contracted hours, but received only the ½% payrise. I enthusiastically signed up for the new regime with its small bonus, then retired on 11 July, with a pension 2% higher than it would have been otherwise. I was followed over the following couple of months by many others of my former colleagues who thought likewise. Those left now take it in turns to read a book for a couple of hours, waiting for the public, for whose benefit this arrangement was devised, to do their bit, which they seem reluctant to do.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on August 29, 2019, 14:09:31
Journeycheck reporting more cancellations this evening including the last TV stopper (2327 Paddington-Didcot) and the last Gatwick-Reading (d2334) with no hint of an alternative service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 29, 2019, 16:13:18
The last Gatwick to Reading train now reinstated at the expense of the previous one.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 30, 2019, 16:13:31
Numerous cancellations/alterations listed this afternoon/evening again due to crew shortage.

I assume Friday is within the working week,  even when the sun shines?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 30, 2019, 16:44:01
"Friday is the new weekend"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 30, 2019, 17:15:13
"Friday is the new weekend"
For some it is:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48746707/employment-happier-working-a-four-day-week
[/quote]


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 30, 2019, 17:33:46
"Friday is the new weekend"

POETS day, at the least!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 30, 2019, 17:45:51
"Friday is the new weekend"
For some it is:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48746707/employment-happier-working-a-four-day-week
[/quote]

I'd be delighted to do only work 4 days a week...………..in fact a 5 day week would be nice!  :D





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 30, 2019, 17:48:45
Numerous cancellations/alterations listed this afternoon/evening again due to crew shortage.

I assume Friday is within the working week,  even when the sun shines?

Same shortages as last year in peak holiday season: 

.....so now we're getting mass cancellations during the week too....

16:56 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:36
17:32 West Ealing to Greenford due 17:44
17:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:27
17:47 Greenford to West Ealing due 17:58
18:02 West Ealing to Greenford due 18:14
18:22 Greenford to West Ealing due 18:33
18:42 London Paddington to Reading due 19:43
19:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 20:54
19:35 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:34
19:52 Reading to London Paddington due 20:46
21:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 22:21
23:34 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:07

No material change this year sadly.  Still not enough drivers...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on August 30, 2019, 18:10:24
But tonight (and early tomorrow), it's compounded by electrification repairs at Didcot....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 31, 2019, 08:09:24
Numerous cancellations/alterations listed this afternoon/evening again due to crew shortage.

I assume Friday is within the working week,  even when the sun shines?

Same shortages as last year in peak holiday season: 

.....so now we're getting mass cancellations during the week too....

16:56 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:36
17:32 West Ealing to Greenford due 17:44
17:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:27
17:47 Greenford to West Ealing due 17:58
18:02 West Ealing to Greenford due 18:14
18:22 Greenford to West Ealing due 18:33
18:42 London Paddington to Reading due 19:43
19:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 20:54
19:35 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:34
19:52 Reading to London Paddington due 20:46
21:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 22:21
23:34 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:07

No material change this year sadly.  Still not enough drivers...

So, no real progress then despite all the promises from GWR, and we have the December timetable to "look forward" to which will put even more pressure on driver numbers. It doesn't bode well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 31, 2019, 08:19:22
So, no real progress then despite all the promises from GWR, and we have the December timetable to "look forward" to which will put even more pressure on driver numbers. It doesn't bode well.

But cross rail will have taken over the Reading London locals - don't they have their own drivers already?  Should that not considerably ease the driver problem in the LTV?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 31, 2019, 10:58:55
It will certainly ease things, but there are more services to run elsewhere of course.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on September 06, 2019, 15:59:34
Journeycheck reporting lots of cancellations after 2100 tonight on LTV services due to staff shortages. If you’re planning an evening out you might want to check the list.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 06, 2019, 16:08:42
Journeycheck reporting lots of cancellations after 2100 tonight on LTV services due to staff shortages. If you’re planning an evening out you might want to check the list.

I wonder what today's excuse is? School holidays are over, it's hardly BBQ weather, and Friday (as far as I know) is considered part of the working week...……...it's Friday evening though, perhaps they're all at the pub?

Good luck to anyone planning a night out - you may struggle to get home.

21:26 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 22:53
21:42 London Paddington to Reading due 22:39
22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:16
22:15 Reading to London Paddington due 23:18
23:14 Reading to London Paddington due 00:15
23:18 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 00:37
23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:56
23:34 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 01:07
23:34 Reading to Basingstoke due 23:58
23:51 London Paddington to Reading due 00:58
00:02 Basingstoke to Reading due 00:26
00:14 Reading to London Paddington due 01:11
00:34 London Paddington to Reading due 01:34
01:34 London Paddington to Reading due 02:27
Sat, 7 September 05:24 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 07:01


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 08, 2019, 08:11:46
Welcome to Sunday - needless to say the GWR website is advertising a good service running across the network.

All cancelled.

08:08 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 09:03
08:18 Reading to London Paddington due 08:51
08:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:32
09:16 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 10:08
09:20 London Paddington to Newbury due 10:30
10:18 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:29
10:49 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 11:42
11:11 Newbury to London Paddington due 12:25
11:25 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:29
11:32 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:02
12:08 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 13:05
12:19 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:31
14:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:55
14:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:44
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:40
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:55
16:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:32
18:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:52
18:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:29
20:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:52
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:04


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 08, 2019, 09:12:28
You really have to feel for the South Cotswolds line users who use the line on a Sunday. They must wonder what they’ve done to GWR to deserve their service bear the brunt of crew shortages. Of course we know why this line suffers most but the average passenger just sees their train cancelled owing to crew shortages.

Another favourite to get canned is the 1132 Pad-Paignton and 1545 return. I know it’s a filler between expresses to the SW, but if you are a regular user of this train it’s a bit of an inconvenience.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 08, 2019, 10:06:07
You really have to feel for the South Cotswolds line users who use the line on a Sunday. They must wonder what they’ve done to GWR to deserve their service bear the brunt of crew shortages. Of course we know why this line suffers most but the average passenger just sees their train cancelled owing to crew shortages.

Another favourite to get canned is the 1132 Pad-Paignton and 1545 return. I know it’s a filler between expresses to the SW, but if you are a regular user of this train it’s a bit of an inconvenience.


……..and that's a bit of an understatement  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 08, 2019, 11:42:34
Tonight's westbound sleeper starts from Reading due to staff shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 08, 2019, 11:43:52
Another favourite to get canned is the 1132 Pad-Paignton and 1545 return. I know it’s a filler between expresses to the SW, but if you are a regular user of this train it’s a bit of an inconvenience.

Especially as it operates via Bristol and Swindon on the up trip rather than the Berks & Hants.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 08, 2019, 12:16:22
Welcome to Sunday - needless to say the GWR website is advertising a good service running across the network.

All cancelled.

08:08 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 09:03
08:18 Reading to London Paddington due 08:51
08:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:32
09:16 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 10:08
09:20 London Paddington to Newbury due 10:30
10:18 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:29
10:49 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 11:42
11:11 Newbury to London Paddington due 12:25
11:25 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:29
11:32 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:02
12:08 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 13:05
12:19 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:31
14:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:55
14:37 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:44
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:40
15:46 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:55
16:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:32
18:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:52
18:36 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:29
20:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:52
20:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:04

Very similar to the equivalent Sunday last year.  A couple more today, but cancellations are mostly focussed on 'less important' routes:

Summer holidays and the BBQ season are over, but...…………it's Sunday so these are all cancelled because there aren't any crew available.

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:43
09:24 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:08
10:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:45
10:57 London Paddington to Penzance due 16:11
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:50
11:18 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:30
11:27 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:03
13:33 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:45
15:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:40
15:42 Plymouth to London Paddington due 19:29
15:45 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:50
16:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:42
16:22 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:45
16:51 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:10
19:32 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:45
20:57 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 23:35
21:30 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:53

How long will the list be next year, when many more Sunday trains are in the pipeline?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2019, 12:01:25
We must be getting pretty close to GWR failing to meet their franchise commitment by failing to run so many trains, throughout the week but especially on Sundays due to crew shortage.  Perhaps a DfT fine for every service cancelled with this excuse may concentrate a few minds & catalyse a solution. I get that GWR are happy to cancel services & inconvenience customers rather than spend money to buy out Ts & Cs, but perhaps a metaphorical kick up the backside is needed, unless they wish to look even more ridiculous come December.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 09, 2019, 13:19:05
I'd have thought we are some way off of that to be honest.  I know statistics can be skewed and interpreted in many ways, but I'll list some anyway:

After the real horror year of last year, GWR is now ahead of the national average 'cancellation'* figure by some margin.  In the last year 97.9% of all trains have run, against a national total of 97.2% - which includes cancellations due to all of the other reasons other than just crew shortages.  That situation is improving, albeit slowly, as the Moving Annual Average of cancellations has dropped from 2.5% to 2.1% for GWR over the last five months.

In the last period, which covered the height of the summer holiday shortages, GWR 'cancelled'* 2.8% of trains against the national figure of 4.1%.

When a list of cancellations is generally concentrated over one day, or one evening (as the recent ones you've listed for Friday evenings and Sunday's have been) it does look very bad.  And it is far short of what GWR should be aiming for of course, but taken in context for the whole week and compared with the list of trains which do run then the picture looks a little different.

* Defined as ‘Half a cancellation’ when a train fails to stop at one or more of its station stops, or ‘A full cancellation’ when a train completes less than 50% of its planned journey.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 09, 2019, 13:21:15
We must be getting pretty close to GWR failing to meet their franchise commitment by failing to run so many trains, throughout the week but especially on Sundays due to crew shortage.  Perhaps a DfT fine for every service cancelled with this excuse may concentrate a few minds & catalyse a solution. I get that GWR are happy to cancel services & inconvenience customers rather than spend money to buy out Ts & Cs, but perhaps a metaphorical kick up the backside is needed, unless they wish to look even more ridiculous come December.

I though I'd done a bit of contract gardening on this, but apparently not. The franchise agreement contains two mechanisms, breach and default, with defined levels for both. For the current period (2019/20 P6) these are:
Measurebreachdefault
Cancellation1.06%1.10%
TOC Minutes delay*20.3421.23
*per 1000 train miles

Now the terms breach and default are used throughout the contract text with similar meanings - not complying with the cotract - but presumably they are distinct to the lawyers who wrote this. One imagines that a default is more serious, and perhaps might permit the SoS to cancel without any specified preliminaries, but I can't find any such words. For breach, there are preliminaries:

From schedule 1.2 Operating Obligations (Daily Operating Obligations)
Quote
1.2 The Franchisee shall ensure that its performance in each Reporting Period, calculated as a moving annual average in accordance with Schedule 7.1 (Performance Benchmarks), does not exceed (that is, is neither equal to or worse than) each Breach Performance Level in respect of that Reporting Period. It shall be a contravention by the Franchisee of the terms of the Franchise Agreement if its performance exceeds (that is, is equal to or worse than) any Breach Performance Level in any Reporting Period.

From Schedule 7 Performance Benchmarks
Quote
4 Consequences for Poor Performance
4.1 The Franchisee shall procure that in each Reporting Period the moving annual average of:
(a) Cancellations and Partial Cancellations (calculated in accordance with paragraph 2.2 of this Schedule 7.1) does not exceed (that is, is neither equal to nor worse than) the Breach Performance Levels and the Default Performance Levels specified in the cells relating to each such Reporting Period in the Cancellations Benchmark Table; and
(b) the Minutes Delay occurring in respect of the Passenger Services which are attributable to the Franchisee (including in accordance with paragraph 2.9 of this Schedule 7.1) per 1000 Train Miles actually operated (calculated in accordance with paragraph 2.5 of this Schedule 7.1) does not exceed (that is, is neither equal to nor worse than) the Breach Performance Levels and the Default Performance Levels specified in the cells relating to such Reporting Period in the TOC Minute Delay Benchmark Table.
4.2 Certain consequences of the Franchisee’s performance exceeding (that is, equalling or being worse than) the Breach Performance Levels and Default Performance Levels relating to each Benchmark are set out in Schedule 10 (Remedies, Termination and Expiry).

From Schedule 10.3 Events of Default and Termination Events
Quote
1. Provisions Relating to Events of Default
Contravention
1.1 The occurrence of an Event of Default shall constitute a contravention of the Franchise Agreement by the Franchisee.
Notification of Event of Default
1.2 The Franchisee shall notify the Secretary of State as soon as reasonably practicable on, and in any event within 24 hours of, it becoming aware of the occurrence of an Event of Default or an event which is likely to result in the occurrence of an Event of Default. The Franchisee shall take such action or steps as the Secretary of State may require to remedy any Event of Default or potential Event of Default.
Consequences of Event of Default
1.3 On the occurrence of an Event of Default, the provisions of Schedule 10.1 (Remedial Plans and Remedial Agreements) shall apply.
2. Events of Default
Each of the following is an Event of Default:
...
Passenger Service Performance
2.6 The Franchisee’s performance in relation to any Benchmark exceeds (that is, is equal to or worse than) the Default Performance Level for that Benchmark for:
(a) any three consecutive Reporting Periods;
(b) any four Reporting Periods within a period of 13 consecutive Reporting Periods; or
(c) any five Reporting Periods within a period of 26 consecutive Reporting Periods.

All of these consequences are at the SoS's discretion, and there is a load of ... stuff about remedial agreements that I'm sure would be used as an alternative in the first instance (and possibly several more times).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 09, 2019, 16:15:21
To try to link the various performance measures together -

DfT in their franchise payments calculation use TOC delay minutes and Cancellations (including part-cancellations counted as 0.5). It says TOC delay minutes because it only counts delays due to the TOC. It does the same with cancellations, I'm sure, though for some reason the wording is different in that section and I can't find a clear statement that it does.

So the cancellations due to GWR, not NR or other TOCs, will be a fraction of the total - but I don't how big a fraction. Presumably all the staff shortages go down on their account, so you'd guess their total would have been at least half recently. If that's right then yes, they are worse than their breach level, and in contravention.

The franchise formulas do include a link to the ORR's CASL and PPM - but only to alter the scale factor for penalty/bonus payments. There are some more details here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20898.msg271873#msg271873) (or you can always refer to the contract..)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 09, 2019, 16:49:40
So the cancellations due to GWR, not NR or other TOCs, will be a fraction of the total - but I don't how big a fraction. Presumably all the staff shortages go down on their account, so you'd guess their total would have been at least half recently. If that's right then yes, they are worse than their breach level, and in contravention.

The data you're referring to is published on page 2 of this link I think?

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/about-us/performance/gwr-periodic-report-2005.pdf?la=en

The TOC on Self measure would cover things like driver shortages, and there is a graph for that at the bottom.  As you can see the Moving Annual Average is pretty much in line with the Target MAA - though where the target sits in terms of possible franchise breach is one for you, Stuving!  ;)  Either way it's clear how, despite two poor periods, that figure is a huge improvement on what was being recorded up until the end of last year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on September 09, 2019, 20:14:11
The data you're referring to is published on page 2 of this link I think?

https://www.gwr.com/~/media/gwr/pdfs/about-us/performance/gwr-periodic-report-2005.pdf?la=en

The TOC on Self measure would cover things like driver shortages, and there is a graph for that at the bottom.  As you can see the Moving Annual Average is pretty much in line with the Target MAA - though where the target sits in terms of possible franchise breach is one for you, Stuving!  ;)  Either way it's clear how, despite two poor periods, that figure is a huge improvement on what was being recorded up until the end of last year.

I think that's right - those figures ought to be the ones sent to DfT (and the last graph is even labelled "TOC-on-self DfT cancellations"). But of course there's one big omission - the formulas DfT use in contracts are all normalised, dividing by the number of services or the total miles they run (per period, for one period's data). That means they can use the same numbers as targets and limits per year and per period.

Now, what are the targets GWR are quoting? Are they the ones in the contract? For this year those are 0.44% cancellations and 8.92 minutes/1000 miles. In both cases the breach level is a lot higher - 1.06% and 20.34. It's possible to work backwards from the figures GWR give, on the basis of that assumption, and it gives numbers (93636 services and 3.796 million miles per period), from which the latest values are well within the breach limits.

But something about the numbers looks wrong. First, the average length of a service is 40 miles - which seems too short. It would get you from London to Reading, but not even to Didcot. Secondly, the cancellaions target on the graph has roughly doubled in the last two years, rising all the way. Since the target as a percentage hasn't changed, that can only mean the number of services has doubled. Again, that doesn't sound right to me.

And that last graph does suggest that at the peak of the MAA last year, it would have been well over the breach limit. Maybe GWR pleaded, and were allowed, special circumstances. But there are other details that look unlikely too. So ... conclusions deferred pending better data.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on September 10, 2019, 09:05:21
Many thanks stuving for your excellent analysis and insight to the figure breakdowns, etc.
Wonderful  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2019, 09:15:50
I wouldn’t be surprised if 40 miles average is about right.  Hourly services to far flung destinations would soon be counterbalanced when you factor in thrice hourly Windsor services and other short distance trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 10, 2019, 18:02:34
Many thanks stuving for your excellent analysis and insight to the figure breakdowns, etc.
Wonderful  ;D

Hear Hear!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 10, 2019, 19:53:56
If anyone can clear very muddied waters, it’s Stuving!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2019, 16:12:13
Good to see it’s all gone quiet on this thread, for the time being at least.  It’s the annual staff jolly today so I’m a little surprised and pleased there isn’t a list of cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 28, 2019, 16:55:56
Good to see it’s all gone quiet on this thread, for the time being at least.  It’s the annual staff jolly today so I’m a little surprised and pleased there isn’t a list of cancellations.

Sadly, the TransWilts thread on the same topic is not so quite and my log for the last 7 full days shows 7 services out of 119 (5.8%) effected by shortage of crews - one significantly late and 6 cancelled.  I think there were at least 2 more cancelled and re-instated.

Does "we will give special attention to the TransWilts and [3 others]" - from a GWR manager last year, seem to have become a rather different form of special attention to we would have liked ... the bottom of the barrel.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 28, 2019, 18:12:31
Good to see it’s all gone quiet on this thread, for the time being at least.  It’s the annual staff jolly today so I’m a little surprised and pleased there isn’t a list of cancellations.

Tomorrow's service will be interesting I guess...……...see how many turn up for work depending on hangovers!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2019, 18:30:42
Indeed, though it’s more of a family day out than a session!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on October 06, 2019, 20:26:57
I've left it until this time now to post this but there have been no cancellations today.   Even Cheltenhams all  ran


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on October 06, 2019, 20:31:50
There was on return trip from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads cancelled this afternoon due to no driver. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on October 06, 2019, 22:06:06
There was on return trip from London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads cancelled this afternoon due to no driver. 

Missed that one.   Checked in the morning and again evening.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 06, 2019, 22:57:08
Should be pretty quiet on this thread until the build up to Christmas I would have thought.  I have a feeling GWR might have been better postponing their new timetable a couple of weeks until the first week of January, but time will tell on that one!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 07, 2019, 04:55:39
Should be pretty quiet on this thread until the build up to Christmas I would have thought.  I have a feeling GWR might have been better postponing their new timetable a couple of weeks until the first week of January, but time will tell on that one!

Some teething troubles are almost inevitable with the major changes - and will be seen initially from 15th December.  If things are noted / dealt with quickly, the "restart" in the new year may be pretty clean.  In that scenario, the lesson we take away may be that the changes should have been in the new year - and we may be very wrong indeed in that lesson because it was the chance given (and taken) to overcome the initial issues in the last fortnight of 2019 set us up for a really good start to 2020.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 07, 2019, 07:29:55
Should be pretty quiet on this thread until the build up to Christmas I would have thought.  I have a feeling GWR might have been better postponing their new timetable a couple of weeks until the first week of January, but time will tell on that one!

Some teething troubles are almost inevitable with the major changes - and will be seen initially from 15th December.  If things are noted / dealt with quickly, the "restart" in the new year may be pretty clean.  In that scenario, the lesson we take away may be that the changes should have been in the new year - and we may be very wrong indeed in that lesson because it was the chance given (and taken) to overcome the initial issues in the last fortnight of 2019 set us up for a really good start to 2020.

What sort of "teething problems", and why do you consider that they are inevitable?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 07, 2019, 08:10:13
What sort of "teething problems", and why do you consider that they are inevitable?

You're putting words in my mouth - I said almost inevitable.   

But, not splitting hairs, there may be odd situations ... such as happened on the Thames Valley at Twyford with connections to Henley at the last significant change.  There may be other customer related issues too, some of which may have an operational knock-on.  Things like trains turning up on different platforms to people expect.   I would not be surprised if there are a few robust exchanges of views between ticketing staff and passengers who are used to paying for an off peak ticket, an find that the nearest train to their "traditional" one is now peak.  Customers will also need to get used to slicker station calls - having had the luxury of longer dwell times with slam door trains in the past, with that luxury somewhat extended with the IETs running, thus far, to a timetable very much slacker than what they can typically do.

The latter of these issues is very much acknowledged by GWR - witness the call for suggestions in the summer.  However,  I note that my suggestion of putting up signs that say "Melksham" that can be read from a train that's just pulled in to Melksham from the south have not (yet?) been acted on; that's the sort of thing that should be cheap and will speed up the slowest ("where am I?   Never used the train before!") customers.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 07, 2019, 09:55:57
Yes, it’ll take little time for staff and passengers to get used to a new timetable after few changes over the last couple of decades.  To add to Graham’s list I would expect the odd diagramming error for crew, the odd Automatic Route Setting error in the data sent to the signalling systems, the odd passenger alarm activation at Paddington when someone realised their train is next stop Bristol Parkway and they want Reading.  All of which will knock performance.

In September 2011 Chiltern introduced their delayed Mainline timetable which was a similar upheaval of their own services.  Punctuality dropped noticeably, I remember questioning myself whether they had tried to do too much, and things like this started to appear in the local press:

https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/9269787.beaconsfield-commuters-say-new-chiltern-line-is-misery/

But over the following weeks and months they got it back together again to restore their enviable satisfaction ratings, so let’s hope any GWR dips are quickly addressed.  I’ll be watching the performance figures closely!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 28, 2019, 17:34:54
How on Earth is this allowed to happen? Working day in the evening rush hour.....plenty of similar cancellations elsewhere too for the same reason.....

Cancellations to services between West Ealing and Greenford
Due to a shortage of train crew between West Ealing and Greenford all lines are closed.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 19:30 28/10


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 31, 2019, 14:53:26
Well, this is impressive......all cancelled due to crew shortage, including a number of very busy LTV rush hour services. Trick or treat?

16:09 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 16:43

16:32 Reading to London Paddington due 17:33
16:33 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 18:01
16:45 Maidenhead to Marlow due 17:08
16:48 Reading to London Paddington due 17:53
16:56 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 17:36
17:06 Oxford to Reading due 17:56
17:12 London Paddington to Reading due 18:09
17:17 Marlow to Bourne End due 17:24

17:30 Bourne End to Marlow due 17:37
17:42 Maidenhead to London Paddington due 18:28
17:47 Marlow to Bourne End due 17:54
17:57 London Paddington to Reading due 18:58
18:00 Bourne End to Marlow due 18:07
18:11 London Paddington to Reading due 19:11
18:17 Marlow to Bourne End due 18:24

18:30 Bourne End to Marlow due 18:37
18:46 Maidenhead to Bourne End due 18:57
18:47 Marlow to Bourne End due 18:54
18:55 London Paddington to Maidenhead due 19:30
18:59 London Paddington to Newbury due 20:37
19:00 Bourne End to Marlow due 19:07
19:01 Bourne End to Maidenhead due 19:12
19:16 Maidenhead to Bourne End due 19:27
19:17 Marlow to Bourne End due
19:30 Bourne End to Marlow due 19:37
19:31 Bourne End to Maidenhead due 19:42
19:46 Maidenhead to Bourne End due 19:57
19:47 Marlow to Bourne End due 19:54
19:57 London Paddington to Reading due 20:52
20:00 Bourne End to Marlow due 20:07
20:01 Bourne End to Maidenhead due 20:12
20:16 Maidenhead to Bourne End due 20:27
20:17 Marlow to Bourne End due 20:24
20:30 Bourne End to Marlow due 20:37
20:31 Bourne End to Maidenhead due 20:42
20:46 Maidenhead to Bourne End due 20:57
20:47 Marlow to Bourne End due 20:54
21:00 Bourne End to Marlow due 21:07
21:01 Bourne End to Maidenhead due 21:12
21:10 Marlow to Maidenhead due 21:33
21:11 Reading to Newbury due 21:37
21:12 Newbury to Reading due 21:43
21:18 London Paddington to Oxford due 22:17
21:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 22:57
21:51 Newbury to Reading due 22:24
22:07 Reading to Newbury due 22:33
22:44 Newbury to Reading due 23:13
22:48 Reading to London Paddington due 00:01
23:01 Oxford to London Paddington due 00:21
23:14 Reading to London Paddington due 00:14
23:21 Didcot Parkway to Reading due 23:46
00:34 London Paddington to Reading due 01:34


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on October 31, 2019, 17:41:41
Curious to see that ex Bourne End services are shown twice, one minute apart, with a Marlow destination and a Maidenhead one. Anyone explain that?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on October 31, 2019, 18:36:45
Curious to see that ex Bourne End services are shown twice, one minute apart, with a Marlow destination and a Maidenhead one. Anyone explain that?

Because that's when they run (when not cancelled). During the evening they are not through trains, it's one for each half and change at Bourne End.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 31, 2019, 23:19:36
Curious to see that ex Bourne End services are shown twice, one minute apart, with a Marlow destination and a Maidenhead one. Anyone explain that?

Because that's when they run (when not cancelled). During the evening they are not through trains, it's one for each half and change at Bourne End.

Thanks, Stuving - I've drawn a diagram as to show how Bourne End works for those not familiar with it  - http://www.passenger.chat/22396


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: nickswift99 on November 01, 2019, 11:23:45
Thanks.

Looks like another bad day today with North Downs Line and LTV stoppers taking the brunt of the cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 19, 2019, 06:14:49
All cancelled - once again GWR unable to manage its workforce - the preceding local train to the (cancelled) 1658 Paddington to Reading is shortformed as well so a pretty miserable peak in store for many.


15:48 Reading to London Paddington due 16:46

16:32 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 17:51

16:58 London Paddington to Reading due 18:00

18:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 19:29

18:18 Reading to London Paddington due 19:16

18:31 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 19:50

19:17 Reading to London Paddington due 20:16

20:34 Redhill to Reading due 22:00

20:48 Reading to London Paddington due 21:46

21:11 Reading to Newbury due 21:37

21:51 Newbury to Reading due 22:24

21:57 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 23:39

22:01 Reading to London Paddington due 23:13

22:35 Reading to Guildford due 23:19

23:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 00:53


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on November 19, 2019, 12:25:11
Turkey season replaces barbecue season?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on November 19, 2019, 12:50:56
And 1649 Padd – Didcot semi-fast is terminating at Reading, so no 1725 Reading – Didcot, which is a busy commuter train. 

Later - this train got reinstated some time this afternoon, and ran through to Didcot OK


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2019, 19:40:59
I see that GWR have cancelled the 0100 Paddington-Reading service tonight (amongst others) due to staff shortage.....should make for some lively discussion with those staff that are working when people arrive back to Paddington for the last train home......really poor as we move into the Christmas party season.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on November 30, 2019, 19:52:13
Probably would have been more today if there hadn't been a TfL train operating 4 Paddington-Reading turns.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 30, 2019, 21:42:41
Apparently GWR are trying to arrange buses  to run in lieu of the 0100. I can't see that journey being a very pleasant experience.

(And yes I appreciate that it's better than nothing)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on November 30, 2019, 23:18:31
I see that GWR have cancelled the 0100 Paddington-Reading service tonight (amongst others) due to staff shortage.....should make for some lively discussion with those staff that are working when people arrive back to Paddington for the last train home......really poor as we move into the Christmas party season.

GWR are actually doing this in the best interests of passengers.
"Christmas party season" is only the polite term for "binge drinking season" GWR, as part of HMGs anti binge drinking policy, are making getting home after drinking a little harder, in the hope that some people will vow "never again", thereby improving public health.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 01, 2019, 04:35:06
The 0100 London Paddington - Reading service ran as scheduled with additional stops.

The 0030 London Paddington - Reading was cancelled.  The set and driver was used to reinstate the 0100 departure


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 01, 2019, 07:14:21
I did wonder if they’d do that as it was the obvious thing to do as long as the driver was happy doing it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 01, 2019, 08:52:37
It wasn't much comfort to those who had rushed back to Paddington for the 0030, believing it to be the last service of the day, only to find it cancelled, and judging by reports the 0100 was the predictably unpleasant experience.

The "obvious thing" is for GWR to have enough staff available to run their services, especially those late night ones where few alternative options are available.

Notwithstanding that some local services will still be run by GWR, we can only hope that TfL will prove more competent.

"Crew Shortages" will be one of Hopwood's legacies.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 01, 2019, 10:45:23
Enhanced pay is being offered to staff working on Sunday 15th December to try and persuade as many to work as possible.  Clearly they are very worried that there won’t be enough for the first day of the new timetable, with several works Christmas do’s taking place the previous day.

Launching it in the run up to Christmas is far from ideal as I have previously said, but I guess GWR’s hands were tied as the changes affect so many services and other operators they couldn’t have realistically waited until January.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 01, 2019, 11:05:28
Enhanced pay is being offered to staff working on Sunday 15th December to try and persuade as many to work as possible.  Clearly they are very worried that there won’t be enough for the first day of the new timetable, with several works Christmas do’s taking place the previous day.

Launching it in the run up to Christmas is far from ideal as I have previously said, but I guess GWR’s hands were tied as the changes affect so many services and other operators they couldn’t have realistically waited until January.
I’m very pleased to hear that II as I shall be travelling out of London on one of the new extra services operating on the WoE line on the 15th and won’t be amused if it gets cancelled because there aren’t enough train crew.

Who’s going to say no to a bit of extra cash just before Christmas?

Agree far from ideal launching a new timetable just days before Christmas.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 01, 2019, 15:58:48
Enhanced pay is being offered to staff working on Sunday 15th December to try and persuade as many to work as possible.  Clearly they are very worried that there won’t be enough for the first day of the new timetable, with several works Christmas do’s taking place the previous day.

Launching it in the run up to Christmas is far from ideal as I have previously said, but I guess GWR’s hands were tied as the changes affect so many services and other operators they couldn’t have realistically waited until January.

Indeed - mustn't jeopardise the Christmas p**s up for a little thing like providing a service for customers or the new timetable!  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 01, 2019, 16:04:27
I’m very pleased to hear that II as I shall be travelling out of London on one of the new extra services operating on the WoE line on the 15th and won’t be amused if it gets cancelled because there aren’t enough train crew.

Who’s going to say no to a bit of extra cash just before Christmas?

Agree far from ideal launching a new timetable just days before Christmas.

I expect quite a lot will turn down the extra money for that Sunday, mainly because a large chunk of the extra payment disappears in tax and, potentially, this could be the last time everyone can make themselves unavailable to work a Sunday and thus the last time the depots can have big get together.  

Unfortunately, I would expect a lot will be cancelled even with an enhancement of the enhanced pay that I predict will probably come before the 15th.  The 22nd will be the same.  Staff have up until 5 days before the 15th (I think) to make themselves before the roster is finalised.  If they are going be that short you’d hope the train companies would publish a revised timetable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 02, 2019, 09:32:45
I doubt it’ll attract the numbers needed, but it will no doubt tempt some who are not booked to work that Sunday into doing an extra shift.  Perhaps enough to turn it from a farce to just a few cancellations?  We’ll find out in a couple of weeks...

BTW It covers all operational staff, not just train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 02, 2019, 09:40:21
I doubt it’ll attract the numbers needed, but it will no doubt tempt some who are not booked to work that Sunday into doing an extra shift.  Perhaps enough to turn it from a farce to just a few cancellations?  We’ll find out in a couple of weeks...

BTW It covers all operational staff, not just train crew.
What a way to run a railway.  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 10, 2019, 22:13:50

GWR are actually doing this in the best interests of passengers.
"Christmas party season" is only the polite term for "binge drinking season" GWR, as part of HMGs anti binge drinking policy, are making getting home after drinking a little harder, in the hope that some people will vow "never again", thereby improving public health.

Good luck with that. The times I've made that vow...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2019, 08:06:36
A look at RTT this morning shows a number of services have disappeared or are running short this coming Sunday, so it looks like GWR will be running a reduced timetable and not the new much anticipated timetable.

Now they've modified the timetable, hopefully they will give passengers as much notice as possible that there train might not be running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 12, 2019, 09:42:48
Can you give some examples, Timmer?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2019, 09:52:55
Can you give some examples, Timmer?
All the Cheltenhams are running to and from Swindon only.

The xx17 Pad-Cdf and returns aren't running.

Services to WoE are also affected with the a number of services either cancelled or running short.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 12, 2019, 09:59:32
I believe another of our esteemed members indicated elsewhere that there is a GWR Christmas booze-up on Saturday night which may well explain shortage of crew the next day and likely service meltdown despite extra cash being on offer for those who are prepared to turn up for work.

Can't let little things like running trains come between rail staff and ale, even when it's too cold for a barbecue  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2019, 10:12:44
I believe another of our esteemed members indicated elsewhere that there is a GWR Christmas booze-up on Saturday night which may well explain shortage of crew the next day and likely service meltdown despite extra cash being on offer for those who are prepared to turn up for work.

Can't let little things like running trains come between rail staff and ale, even when it's too cold for a barbecue  ::)
It's an absolute disgrace that a private company won't be able to run the advertised service because of Christmas parties!

Nothing against the staff as they don't have to work on a Sunday. Most of the travelling public won't have a clue that it's because of Christmas parties that services are affected as the official reason given will be 'shortage of train crew'.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Robin Summerhill on December 12, 2019, 10:44:17
I believe another of our esteemed members indicated elsewhere that there is a GWR Christmas booze-up on Saturday night which may well explain shortage of crew the next day and likely service meltdown despite extra cash being on offer for those who are prepared to turn up for work.

Can't let little things like running trains come between rail staff and ale, even when it's too cold for a barbecue  ::)
It's an absolute disgrace that a private company won't be able to run the advertised service because of Christmas parties!

Nothing against the staff as they don't have to work on a Sunday. Most of the travelling public won't have a clue that it's because of Christmas parties that services are affected as the official reason given will be 'shortage of train crew'.

Isn't this another case of the Law of Unintended Consequences kicking in?

It's been over 30 years now since a driver of a freight train who had had one over the sixteen had his train come off the road at Maidstone, and that IIRC was the beginnings of a drachonian clampdown on alcohol for railway employees in general, and operating staff in particular.

I am not suggesting that we go back to the days of drunk as a newt drivers taking trains out, but if you run the risk of dismissal the following day because there's still alcohol in your bloodstream, it stands to reason that staff are going to be very cautious indeed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 12, 2019, 11:11:08
Can you give some examples, Timmer?
All the Cheltenhams are running to and from Swindon only.

The xx17 Pad-Cdf and returns aren't running.

Services to WoE are also affected with the a number of services either cancelled or running short.

Thanks - will GWR advertise these in advance on their website I wonder?  There are some depots with a full complement of staff this Sunday (i.e. all shifts covered), but I’m sure some will struggle. 

It will be interesting to see what affect any shortages have before Christmas and after, when it should settle down.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2019, 11:27:47
Thanks - will GWR advertise these in advance on their website I wonder?  There are some depots with a full complement of staff this Sunday (i.e. all shifts covered), but I’m sure some will struggle. 
Would like to think so. I know the service I was booked on has been cancelled as yesterday it was listed on RTT and today it's gone which I expected as it's one of the new WoE semi-fasts which was always a prime target when short of traincrew. At least my late getting home will somewhat be compensated by delay repay.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 12, 2019, 11:42:06
The staff have been told the following:

"Alongside the timetable change there will be other factors which could cause us extra challenges on Sunday. Train crew coverage is expected to be a challenge for this one day, and a strike will continue across the South Western Railway network, meaning services will be significantly reduced. A revised timetable will be put in place, and where trains are able to operate they are expected to be very busy."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 12, 2019, 17:29:22
The message of course that comes out loud and clear is that you can't rely on the railways at weekends, especially as the bruvvers over on SWR are out on strike too.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of working people, if you told them that the reason was a combination of train drivers being exempt from having to work on Sundays (notwithstanding being handsomely paid to provide a subsidised 7 day public service), and their desire to have a skinful of ale on Saturday night would scarcely believe it.

In my industry, no-one is "forced" to work on Sundays, but a combination of a conscientious workforce who want to provide the best service to their customers and an ability to compromise without holding people to ransom ensures that it's all covered.

The railways have had years to sort this out but as usual progress is glacial.

Those who scream and shout about people jumping in their cars instead of catching the train should bear this in mind.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2019, 17:39:09
GWR have put out the following on their website:
https://www.gwr.com/sunday-15-december

Quote
Changes to trains for Sunday 15 December

An amended timetable is in place affecting some journeys between London and Penzance, and on some other GWR routes. Where trains are able to run they are expected to be very busy. This is expected to be compounded by strikes planned by the RMT on the SWR network.

Customers should check their journeys before travelling.

Those with tickets for travel on Sunday 15 December will be allowed to travel on either Saturday 14 or Monday 16 December when GWR will be operating its full timetable.

The usual compensation arrangements are in place should customers be delayed, and customers who choose not to travel will be entitled to a refund. GWR is offering to waive the administration fee for those who choose not to travel.

How will this affect my journey?

In order to keep passengers moving, some London Paddington to Penzance services will terminate at Exeter, where customers will be able to change for local services towards Plymouth and Penzance. Services between Exeter and Plymouth will be supported by additional road vehicles; adding up to an hour on journey times.

On the route between London Paddington and South Wales GWR will continue to operate an hourly service between London and Swansea; and a half-hourly service between Bristol Temple Meads and London Paddington.

Direct trains between Cheltenham and London Paddington will terminate at Swindon, where customers will be able to catch a train service onwards to London.

The amendments have come about because an unusually high number of rail staff are not available to work. While newer GWR contracts include Sunday working, not all railway workers are contracted to work on Sundays. GWR is working with colleagues and trade unions to make Sunday contracted hours more consistent across the business.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 12, 2019, 18:21:19
I largely gave up weekend rail travel years ago due to the unreliability thereof.
Staff shortage.
Engineering work.
Rail replacement buses that fail to connect with trains.
No proper first class.
No Pullman.
And on new trains, not even a trolley on Sundays.

Local trips were usually made by bus
Longer distance trips planned so as to avoid weekends.

I also learnt to avoid other days on which experience suggested it would all go orribly wrong.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 12, 2019, 18:37:43
GWR have put out the following on their website:
https://www.gwr.com/sunday-15-december

Thanks for posting the link.  It confirms that all new services are expected to run on Monday.

It is also interesting to see GWR make direct reference to why Sunday services are difficult to staff on some Sunday’s.  Is that the first time they’ve done that?

Still no material movement on Sunday-in-the-working-week negotiations AFAIK, with only a year until the target implementation date for drivers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 13, 2019, 13:39:18
Just received an email from GWR to say my train won’t be running this Sunday. I appreciate the efforts being made to let everyone who they can inform of the expected issues this weekend.

We have no choice but to return home Sunday evening so are hoping for the best.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 13, 2019, 13:41:18
I appreciate the efforts being made to let everyone who they can inform of the expected issues this weekend.

That is indeed a welcome approach rather than just putting up a raft of cancellations on the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2019, 16:59:08
Just received an email from GWR to say my train won’t be running this Sunday. I appreciate the efforts being made to let everyone who they can inform of the expected issues this weekend.

We have no choice but to return home Sunday evening so are hoping for the best.

I really feel for you Timmer - this is the reason why I gave up on travelling long distance (PLY-PAD) with GWR on Sundays a few years ago - if they run, they're generally colossally overcrowded and all too often there are mass cancellations with pathetic excuses like this.

Customers deserve better - the fact they have warned you in advance is, I guess, of some small comfort, but I feel even more for people who aren't contacted and turn up to find the inevitable chaos.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 13, 2019, 17:17:04
I really feel for you Timmer - this is the reason why I gave up on travelling long distance (PLY-PAD) with GWR on Sundays a few years ago - if they run, they're generally colossally overcrowded and all too often there are mass cancellations with pathetic excuses like this.

Customers deserve better - the fact they have warned you in advance is, I guess, of some small comfort, but I feel even more for people who aren't contacted and turn up to find the inevitable chaos.
Thx TG. I’m with you and Broadgage in that I don’t like using the railways at weekends for the many and varied reasons. The service seems second best compared to weekdays.

I have a plan to travel via Bath changing there but hoping not to bump into Bath Christmas market traffic heading home on the last day. There is a chance that GWR may announce on the day that the service half an hour later after the train we were due to travel on may make additional stops in which case we shall wait at Paddington and catch that one so we have options. We will just have to make sure we get to the train in good time as it could be very busy.

I feel more for people heading to/from the SW where services are going to be most affected.

In the meantime we shall enjoy our weekend in London with family and friends and cross the bridge of getting home Sunday evening when we come to it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2019, 16:20:45
Getting warmed up for tomorrow - all cancelled due to crew shortage - despite GWR telling people that they can use tickets for tomorrow today, they have cancelled (amongst others) the 2003 which is the last service of the day to the Westcountry - it'll be interesting to see what contingency plans are in place to get people back to Plymouth.

15:01 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:21

16:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:21

17:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:06

17:04 Reading to Redhill due 18:23

18:30 Redhill to Reading due 19:51

19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:48

20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 23:45

21:02 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 22:31

22:35 Reading to Oxford due 23:17

23:43 London Paddington to Reading due 00:42


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 14, 2019, 16:56:18
Getting warmed up for tomorrow - all cancelled due to crew shortage - despite GWR telling people that they can use tickets for tomorrow today, they have cancelled (amongst others) the 2003 which is the last service of the day to the Westcountry - it'll be interesting to see what contingency plans are in place to get people back to Plymouth.

15:01 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:21

16:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:21

17:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:06

17:04 Reading to Redhill due 18:23

18:30 Redhill to Reading due 19:51

19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:48

20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 23:45

21:02 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 22:31

22:35 Reading to Oxford due 23:17

23:43 London Paddington to Reading due 00:42

They must have heard your frustration TG, as the Plymouth cancellation has moved from the 2003 back to the earlier 1903......


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2019, 17:31:11
Getting warmed up for tomorrow - all cancelled due to crew shortage - despite GWR telling people that they can use tickets for tomorrow today, they have cancelled (amongst others) the 2003 which is the last service of the day to the Westcountry - it'll be interesting to see what contingency plans are in place to get people back to Plymouth.

15:01 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:21

16:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:21

17:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:06

17:04 Reading to Redhill due 18:23

18:30 Redhill to Reading due 19:51

19:27 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway due 20:48

20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 23:45

21:02 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington due 22:31

22:35 Reading to Oxford due 23:17

23:43 London Paddington to Reading due 00:42

They must have heard your frustration TG, as the Plymouth cancellation has moved from the 2003 back to the earlier 1903......

According to Journeycheck the 2003 is cancelled, the 1903 is "starting late", both due to crew shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 14, 2019, 17:43:45
How late is “starting late”?

I’ve travelled on the 1903 and it’s normally a busy train full of London day trippers from the SW heading home.

RTT is showing the 1903 as actually cancelled “due to late arrival of an inbound service”.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2019, 19:24:31
As of now (1923), 1903 is showing "delayed" due to crew shortage, 2003 cancelled for same reason.

Could be some long taxi rides tonight.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 14, 2019, 19:35:59
The 1903 has just left at 1935 and the 2003 is now cancelled again...... ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2019, 20:15:23
So people were advised by GWR to travel today/Monday to avoid the impending chaos tomorrow......and what happens?

The p**s up in a brewery analogy would seem both ironic and appropriate in the circumstances, given the main reason for tomorrow's no shows.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 14, 2019, 23:50:27
The 1903 has just left at 1935 and the 2003 is now cancelled again...... ::)
Leaving that late it may have picked up some early arriving passengers for the 2003 who I bet were breathing a huge sigh of relief that they arrived at Paddington early.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 15, 2019, 07:28:36
Extract from the GWR information release above
Quote
On the route between London Paddington and South Wales GWR will continue to operate an hourly service between London and Swansea;

They couldn't even manage that with half the Swansea services being cancelled today on top of all the 'additional' Cardiff services that are not showing on Journeycheck because they were cancelled a couple of days in advance.

Also not mentioned on Journeycheck is they have added an hourly Paddington-Reading-Didcot service to slightly compensate for today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 15, 2019, 08:41:50
Extract from the GWR information release above
Quote
On the route between London Paddington and South Wales GWR will continue to operate an hourly service between London and Swansea;

They couldn't even manage that with half the Swansea services being cancelled today on top of all the 'additional' Cardiff services that are not showing on Journeycheck because they were cancelled a couple of days in advance.

Also not mentioned on Journeycheck is they have added an hourly Paddington-Reading-Didcot service to slightly compensate for today.

Yes, every cancellation/alteration you see listed on Journeycheck is in ADDITION to everything already cancelled/altered earlier this week and removed from the system.

Now I am really concerned for those heading South West as both the 1403 and 1603 PAD-PNZ have been added to the already badly affected SW timetable with even some of the Bristol’s, which could have helped those heading SW axed as well.

We can only hope for some later reinstatements. I don’t know what I’m going to find when we arrive at Paddington later this afternoon. What a start to the new timetable. Sad.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2019, 09:20:52
GWR Twitter response seems to consist of "Sorry, we've got a crew shortage, you can catch the next train"

Interesting also that they are advising that they are "trying to source" road transport - they've known that this was going to happen for days, if not longer - why was this, at the very least, not put in place in a timely fashion?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 15, 2019, 09:41:45
Light the blue touch paper and retire......

This was posted elsewhere by an GWR insider:
Quote
With a large number of depots' Christmas parties last night (and the complete failure to negotiate Sunday's inside the working week for the last 20 years) today was going to be a challenge!

The sad fact is that the timetable today is dictated by where the class 80x fleet needs to be tomorrow so that Hitachi dont have an excuse to short form....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 15, 2019, 10:48:31
Posted on Journeycheck:

Quote
Please be advised that train services will be severely affected on Sunday 15th December due to a shortage of train crew.
Many services between London and South Wales, as well as London and Cornwall, will be amended. Trains will terminate short of their destination, with services also likely to be cancelled, with trains that do run to their intended destination expected to be extremely busy.
If you are planning to travel today you are advised to check travel plans before embarking on your journey, and if your journey is absolutely necessary you are urged to travel as early as you possibly can.
We apologies for the inconvenience that this will cause.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 15, 2019, 12:18:17
Better to give warning than not, but yet again the message is "train travel is unreliable"

Whilst "check before you travel" is sound advice, it is of little help to those who have booked airline tickets, hotel accommodation, or purchased tickets for events.

One may see why certain political figures campaigned against the building of the proposed new arena in central Bristol, "because events are planned far in advance, without knowing if the trains will be running on the day"

If a previous posting is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt it) Another feature of the new trains is revealed in that todays downgraded service is planned not around passengers but around Hitachi to prevent them "having an excuse to short form tomorrow"
I don't recall this ever happening with proper inter city trains, progress I know but still regrettable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 12:36:33
GWR Twitter response seems to consist of "Sorry, we've got a crew shortage, you can catch the next train"

Interesting also that they are advising that they are "trying to source" road transport - they've known that this was going to happen for days, if not longer - why was this, at the very least, not put in place in a timely fashion?

Many of you know that I manage the relationship between GWR and the Coffee Shop and I thought it would be helpful to give you an idea of where we are today.
 
I can’t respond to every comment on here but recognise the issues being flagged about Sunday availability of crews. Any cancellation is not acceptable but we have been working hard to get Sundays included in the working week for all GWR colleagues with some progress but we recognise there is more to do.

Regular contributors will be aware of what we are doing to bring Sunday into the working week for all staff. The issue is absolutely understood and the evidence shows the new contracts we introduced last year are  having a positive impact on the overall service, although we recognise that is no consolation to anyone impacted today. The timetable itself is working well, but it doesn't insulate us against the challenges any train operator faces on a day to day basis. We are running the majority of services today and current ppm is over 90%.

Most of the short notice cancellations today relate to work at our Swansea depot which has historically not been a place we have recorded many issues.  This is due to the availability of Swansea drivers with the relevant route knowledge to run services on the Vale of Glamorgan diversionary route.
 
We are trying to reduce the impact where possible and your contributors have mentioned some of these activities.
 
We have plans to continue minimise the impact in the short term and to address the issue in the longer term.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on December 15, 2019, 12:51:23
As Bristol and Paddington drivers also drive Swansea trains, perhaps they could learn via the VoG line for situations such as this?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 15, 2019, 12:57:17
I can’t respond to every comment on here but recognise the issues being flagged about Sunday availability of crews. Any cancellation is not acceptable but we have been working hard to get Sundays included in the working week for all GWR colleagues with some progress but we recognise there is more to do.

Regular contributors will be aware of what we are doing to bring Sunday into the working week for all staff. The issue is absolutely understood and the evidence shows the new contracts we introduced last year are  having a positive impact on the overall service, although we recognise that is no consolation to anyone impacted today.

Is it possible to have an update from GWR as to whether the additional staff and required negotiations with the unions for Sundays in the working week for the two driving grades GWR and HSS (not the 'committed Sundays' agreements that are already in place for GWR grade drivers) are expected to be concluded in time for a commencement date of next December, which was the original target?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 15, 2019, 13:13:42
Many of you know that I manage the relationship between GWR and the Coffee Shop and I thought it would be helpful to give you an idea of where we are today.

That is hugely helpful, Caroline - thank you.  I have just come back from Melksham Station - intent was just to pick up some tickets but, my goodness, busy with people congregating for the 12:52 to Swindon and all's running (though that one a little late).  Good to see the signs all updated too, to reflect the new timetable.

Whilst we should not / cannot make light of the issues, there are also many lines which are running ... a gent on his way to Gatwick (with the brightest green fluorescent suitcase I have even seen!) and I was able to advise him "fine to Swindon, a bit thin today from there to Reading compared to normal, and then as per timetable pretty well to Gatwick".  He's defensive- scheduled / overnight in a hotel and flying first thing tomorrow, so very laid back.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 14:16:57
As Bristol and Paddington drivers also drive Swansea trains, perhaps they could learn via the VoG line for situations such as this?

Paddington and Bristol drivers would ideally sign Vale of Glamorgan but they can’t as there is not enough work for them to retain their route knowledge and for Paddington drivers it would probably exceed the maximum driving time allowed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 14:18:28
I can’t respond to every comment on here but recognise the issues being flagged about Sunday availability of crews. Any cancellation is not acceptable but we have been working hard to get Sundays included in the working week for all GWR colleagues with some progress but we recognise there is more to do.

Regular contributors will be aware of what we are doing to bring Sunday into the working week for all staff. The issue is absolutely understood and the evidence shows the new contracts we introduced last year are  having a positive impact on the overall service, although we recognise that is no consolation to anyone impacted today.

Is it possible to have an update from GWR as to whether the additional staff and required negotiations with the unions for Sundays in the working week for the two driving grades GWR and HSS (not the 'committed Sundays' agreements that are already in place for GWR grade drivers) are expected to be concluded in time for a commencement date of next December, which was the original target?

As far as negotiations are concerned we are not able to share details of this for wider discussion until we have done a deal.  We will, of course, keep you informed when a deal is confirmed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 14:19:24
Many of you know that I manage the relationship between GWR and the Coffee Shop and I thought it would be helpful to give you an idea of where we are today.

That is hugely helpful, Caroline - thank you.  I have just come back from Melksham Station - intent was just to pick up some tickets but, my goodness, busy with people congregating for the 12:52 to Swindon and all's running (though that one a little late).  Good to see the signs all updated too, to reflect the new timetable.

Whilst we should not / cannot make light of the issues, there are also many lines which are running ... a gent on his way to Gatwick (with the brightest green fluorescent suitcase I have even seen!) and I was able to advise him "fine to Swindon, a bit thin today from there to Reading compared to normal, and then as per timetable pretty well to Gatwick".  He's defensive- scheduled / overnight in a hotel and flying first thing tomorrow, so very laid back.


Thank you Graham, really good to hear things are going well at Melksham and glad you were able to update the gentleman travelling to Gatwick.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 15, 2019, 14:35:55
As far as negotiations are concerned we are not able to share details of this for wider discussion until we have done a deal.  We will, of course, keep you informed when a deal is confirmed.

Thank you.  I wasn't asking for any details other than whether it is still expected (or hoped) to be resolved as planned for next December.  We face another summer of significant cancellations on Sundays next year sadly - my feeling is that any extra staff numbers will be outweighed by the additional trains in the timetable - but hopefully that will be the last one if a deal can be done in time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on December 15, 2019, 14:41:59
As Bristol and Paddington drivers also drive Swansea trains, perhaps they could learn via the VoG line for situations such as this?

Paddington and Bristol drivers would ideally sign Vale of Glamorgan but they can’t as there is not enough work for them to retain their route knowledge and for Paddington drivers it would probably exceed the maximum driving time allowed.


Isn’t that the same situation as Lydney though? Some drivers at Bristol and some at Paddington sign that for Severn Tunnel diversions, despite the fact there is normally no booked work. A driver refreshing Lydney could probably refresh Vale of Glamorgan on the same shift.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 14:56:25
As far as negotiations are concerned we are not able to share details of this for wider discussion until we have done a deal.  We will, of course, keep you informed when a deal is confirmed.

Thank you.  I wasn't asking for any details other than whether it is still expected (or hoped) to be resolved as planned for next December.  We face another summer of significant cancellations on Sundays next year sadly - my feeling is that any extra staff numbers will be outweighed by the additional trains in the timetable - but hopefully that will be the last one if a deal can be done in time.

We hope that it will be concluded as soon as possible.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 15, 2019, 15:52:37
As Bristol and Paddington drivers also drive Swansea trains, perhaps they could learn via the VoG line for situations such as this?

Paddington and Bristol drivers would ideally sign Vale of Glamorgan but they can’t as there is not enough work for them to retain their route knowledge and for Paddington drivers it would probably exceed the maximum driving time allowed.


Isn’t that the same situation as Lydney though? Some drivers at Bristol and some at Paddington sign that for Severn Tunnel diversions, despite the fact there is normally no booked work. A driver refreshing Lydney could probably refresh Vale of Glamorgan on the same shift.

It’s different for Lydney as half of the Lydney route is on the regular route to Cheltenham, which makes route refreshing much easier.  The Vale of Glamorgan is much further from London and therefore more difficult for drivers to maintain competency within their booked hours.  It is worth noting that there are significant differences in the signalling layout on the two routes – the Vale of Glamorgan is more complex.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2019, 16:14:20
As far as negotiations are concerned we are not able to share details of this for wider discussion until we have done a deal.  We will, of course, keep you informed when a deal is confirmed.

Thank you.  I wasn't asking for any details other than whether it is still expected (or hoped) to be resolved as planned for next December.  We face another summer of significant cancellations on Sundays next year sadly - my feeling is that any extra staff numbers will be outweighed by the additional trains in the timetable - but hopefully that will be the last one if a deal can be done in time.

We hope that it will be concluded as soon as possible.

I'm sure we all echo that sentiment, but it'll take more than hope!  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on December 15, 2019, 17:34:42
Stretching the definition of reinstated.......

16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:06

16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:06 will be reinstated.
It will be started from Exeter St Davids and terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at London Paddington, Reading, Taunton, Tiverton Parkway, Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 5.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2019, 19:24:07
GWR Twitter response seems to consist of "Sorry, we've got a crew shortage, you can catch the next train"

Interesting also that they are advising that they are "trying to source" road transport - they've known that this was going to happen for days, if not longer - why was this, at the very least, not put in place in a timely fashion?

Many of you know that I manage the relationship between GWR and the Coffee Shop and I thought it would be helpful to give you an idea of where we are today.
 
I can’t respond to every comment on here but recognise the issues being flagged about Sunday availability of crews. Any cancellation is not acceptable but we have been working hard to get Sundays included in the working week for all GWR colleagues with some progress but we recognise there is more to do.

Regular contributors will be aware of what we are doing to bring Sunday into the working week for all staff. The issue is absolutely understood and the evidence shows the new contracts we introduced last year are  having a positive impact on the overall service, although we recognise that is no consolation to anyone impacted today. The timetable itself is working well, but it doesn't insulate us against the challenges any train operator faces on a day to day basis. We are running the majority of services today and current ppm is over 90%.

Most of the short notice cancellations today relate to work at our Swansea depot which has historically not been a place we have recorded many issues.  This is due to the availability of Swansea drivers with the relevant route knowledge to run services on the Vale of Glamorgan diversionary route.
 
We are trying to reduce the impact where possible and your contributors have mentioned some of these activities.
 
We have plans to continue minimise the impact in the short term and to address the issue in the longer term.

Caroline can you advise as to whether this situation is going to be repeated next Sunday, when demand is likely to be even higher & the situation even more critical, given the restrictions at Paddington w/c 23/12?

Do you have a sufficient complement of drivers available or will there be similar mass cancellations/curtailment?

What is the advice for passengers planning/who have already made arrangements to travel to/from Wales/the West on 22/12?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 15, 2019, 20:56:16

All Swansea drivers, except for an odd one perhaps, have route knowledge via the VOG.     There are some that are worked by London or Bristol drivers  who do not.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RichardB on December 15, 2019, 21:56:04
The 1903 has just left at 1935 and the 2003 is now cancelled again...... ::)
Leaving that late it may have picked up some early arriving passengers for the 2003 who I bet were breathing a huge sigh of relief that they arrived at Paddington early.

I was travelling back from Ealing to Plymouth yesterday evening.  I intended to get the 19 35 from Ealing Broadway to Reading, then the 20 03 ex Pad to Plymouth.  When I got to Ealing Broadway, there was an announcement that the 19 35 was cancelled.  I thought - right, to Paddington.  I got the 19 30 from Ealing and was walking across the Paddington concourse at 19 40ish when I saw that the 20 03 was also cancelled. 

Luckily the 19 45 Swansea was still in the station so I rushed up to it, quickly checked the Bristol Parkway arrival time with the Train Manager stood waiting to close the doors and knowing I could connect there with the last CrossCountry, jumped on it.  I thanked my lucky stars I had done so as I really didn't fancy spending the night in London or a long taxi trip. All went well and I got back to Plymouth at much the time as if Plan A had worked out.  I was lucky, helped by me knowing my way around the network a bit. 

I know these things are difficult but, to my mind, if at all possible, the 19 03 should have been held back further and not left until 20 03. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Incider on December 15, 2019, 22:24:03
As far as negotiations are concerned we are not able to share details of this for wider discussion until we have done a deal.  We will, of course, keep you informed when a deal is confirmed.

Thank you.  I wasn't asking for any details other than whether it is still expected (or hoped) to be resolved as planned for next December.  We face another summer of significant cancellations on Sundays next year sadly - my feeling is that any extra staff numbers will be outweighed by the additional trains in the timetable - but hopefully that will be the last one if a deal can be done in time.

We hope that it will be concluded as soon as possible.

As soon as possible.... what a joke, this has been going on for years, other grades were given new deals and contracts for 24/7 working many years ago, removing the age old BR constraints and giving staff decent pay and conditions, why have GWR (and other TOCS) have been so reluctant to negotiate the same deal with ASLEF is the question..... 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 16, 2019, 15:31:04
GWR Twitter response seems to consist of "Sorry, we've got a crew shortage, you can catch the next train"

Interesting also that they are advising that they are "trying to source" road transport - they've known that this was going to happen for days, if not longer - why was this, at the very least, not put in place in a timely fashion?

Many of you know that I manage the relationship between GWR and the Coffee Shop and I thought it would be helpful to give you an idea of where we are today.
 
I can’t respond to every comment on here but recognise the issues being flagged about Sunday availability of crews. Any cancellation is not acceptable but we have been working hard to get Sundays included in the working week for all GWR colleagues with some progress but we recognise there is more to do.

Regular contributors will be aware of what we are doing to bring Sunday into the working week for all staff. The issue is absolutely understood and the evidence shows the new contracts we introduced last year are  having a positive impact on the overall service, although we recognise that is no consolation to anyone impacted today. The timetable itself is working well, but it doesn't insulate us against the challenges any train operator faces on a day to day basis. We are running the majority of services today and current ppm is over 90%.

Most of the short notice cancellations today relate to work at our Swansea depot which has historically not been a place we have recorded many issues.  This is due to the availability of Swansea drivers with the relevant route knowledge to run services on the Vale of Glamorgan diversionary route.
 
We are trying to reduce the impact where possible and your contributors have mentioned some of these activities.
 
We have plans to continue minimise the impact in the short term and to address the issue in the longer term.

Caroline can you advise as to whether this situation is going to be repeated next Sunday, when demand is likely to be even higher & the situation even more critical, given the restrictions at Paddington w/c 23/12?

Do you have a sufficient complement of drivers available or will there be similar mass cancellations/curtailment?

What is the advice for passengers planning/who have already made arrangements to travel to/from Wales/the West on 22/12?

In previous years we have experienced challenges with traincrew availability at Christmas and we are doing everything we can to maximise their availability for next Sunday (22 December).  Recently recruited drivers are signed up to the new terms and conditions, which include a commitment to work rostered Sundays, and the majority of LTV and West drivers are also signed up.  The HSS drivers are not in that position and negotiations continue to explore how we might get Sundays in working weeks.  If we anticipate any issues on Sunday we will let you know later in the week and we will, of course, ensure that customers who are planning to travel are aware.

I should note that engineering work over this last weekend restricted the number of available drivers.  These engineering works will not be taking place this weekend (21/22 December).

Yesterday we tried to ensure there were not big gaps in the service either by reinstating some services or providing road transport. If a similar situation arises next Sunday we would plan to do the same to ensure we keep customers moving.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 16, 2019, 18:47:53
May I express my thanks to Caroline for taking on the forum.
A thankless job but how good that GWR are willing to do so officially.

For many years there's been a few extremely regular 'insider contributors' and to those I also express my sincere thanks.
Then Mark joined and took on an occasional slot for questions.
Now perhaps Caroline will take on a more regular role.

May the usual 'insiders' please continue their very informative role as well, in case Caroline's role is "cut back" with budgetary constraints/role changes/etc.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 16, 2019, 19:12:08
Good to see few, if any, cancellations due to crew shortages today.  Hopefully that bodes well for the rest of the week and into the New Year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 19, 2019, 06:28:32
A quick look at RTT this morning for this coming Sunday. Compared to this time last week pretty much a full service scheduled apart from a handful of Paddington-Cardiffs cancelled late morning/early afternoon and Cheltenham-Paddington services terminating at Swindon in the morning so it looks much better as it stands.

edited for clarification of Cheltenham-Paddington services terminating at Swindon morning only.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 19, 2019, 07:26:25
Double pay being offered again...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 20, 2019, 15:56:12
Double pay being offered again...

All cancelled or starting/finishing short due to crew shortage.


15:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:56
16:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:30
17:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
18:03 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 19:44
18:57 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:29
18:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:01
20:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:34
10:41 Great Malvern to Brighton due 16:13
12:42 Great Malvern to Weymouth due 17:06
13:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 18:40
13:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:44
15:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 17:31
15:30 Warminster to Worcester Foregate Street due 18:23
16:30 Bath Spa to Bristol Parkway due 17:22
17:02 Brighton to Bristol Parkway due 20:56
17:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 20:50
17:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:57
18:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 21:49
21:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:15


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CarolineCummins on December 20, 2019, 16:05:38
As promised, here’s an update on Sunday’s services for you and the situation is improving all the time.  This update is also being shared on our website and through social media.

Changes to trains for Sunday 22 December – UPDATED

An amended timetable is in place affecting some journeys between London and Bristol Temple Meads, and London and Swansea. Where trains are able to run they are expected to be busy.

Customers are advised to travel early and should check their journeys at https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey before travelling as some changes will be made at short notice.

The usual compensation arrangements are in place should customers be delayed and ticket restrictions have been lifted allowing  customers to travel on an earlier or later service.

How will this affect my journey?

In order to keep passengers moving, from midday services between London Paddington and Swansea will be hourly.

On the route between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads an hourly service will also be in operation from late afternoon.

The amendments have come about because of the unusually high number of rail staff are not available to work. While newer GWR contracts include Sunday working, not all railway workers are contracted to work on Sundays. GWR is working with colleagues and trade unions to make Sunday contracted hours more consistent across the business.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 20, 2019, 19:37:20
.......on the Friday before Christmas......got to be one of the most brainless ones to cancel.

18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:07
18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:07 has been cancelled.
This is due to train crew being delayed by service disruption.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 20, 2019, 19:52:27
There was a special 1Z92 1925 Padd to Penzance scheduled but that was cancelled as well.  The 1835 Padd to Plymouth was 30 odd minutes late leaving and is running behind the 1904 Padd to Penzance.......

You couldn't make it all up (well, it seems GWR can). ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 20, 2019, 20:00:11
There was a special 1Z92 1825 Padd to Penzance scheduled but that was cancelled as well.  The 1835 Padd to Plymouth was 30 odd minutes late leaving and is running behind the 1904 Padd to Penzance.......

You couldn't make it all up (well, it seems GWR can). ::)
My sister in law is on the delayed 1835 which as you expect is rather full. Another delay repay claim about to go in. She reported, as you’d expect, that Paddington was very busy.

Sensible that the 1904 was allowed to go ahead as the 1835 stops at more stations on route.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 20, 2019, 20:21:58
It looks as though the Freight train failure at Theale earlier in the afternoon disrupted all the Paddington Inbound train crew that work out again some 35 minutes later.  In the 'old days' such services would be terminated at and turned back on time at Reading, but since the new timetable the platform occupancy there has almost no slack so keeping a train there for 30-45 mins wouldn't work.

I'm dreading my trip up and back from the far-Southwest on Sunday 29th December.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 20, 2019, 20:38:07
2004 full, standing & hugely overcrowded off Paddington......imagine what that'll be like all the way to Plymouth.

Made worse by all the extra Christmas luggage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 20, 2019, 22:28:19
.......on the Friday before Christmas......got to be one of the most brainless ones to cancel.

18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:07
18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:07 has been cancelled.
This is due to train crew being delayed by service disruption.

I am so glad that I now live permanently in the west country with no need for regular travel between London and the west.
Back in the good old days, I would wait in the first class lounge at Paddington, walk across the platform to take my reserved seat in the Pullman, often on the 18-03 as it then was.

These days the "Golden Hind" no longer departs from platform one, not a big issue but still a backward step for a named train.
Reservations are no longer reliably available,  The location of the Pullman is random, accommodation therein is reduced, and the whole journey is to be endured rather than enjoyed.
Tonight's debacle  resulted in no train and appalling crowding on alternative services.

Reports elsewhere suggest a train fault, as an alternative or contributory cause. Very poor show.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 20, 2019, 22:47:48
You wouldn’t have enjoyed your experience very much in the First class lounge this evening Broadgage. My sister in law said it was absolutely packed with people sitting on the floor.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 20, 2019, 23:29:35
You wouldn’t have enjoyed your experience very much in the First class lounge this evening Broadgage. My sister in law said it was absolutely packed with people sitting on the floor.

Oh dear, glad that I use the trains less.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2019, 08:48:05
A quick look at RTT this morning for this coming Sunday. Compared to this time last week pretty much a full service scheduled apart from a handful of Paddington-Cardiffs cancelled late morning/early afternoon and Cheltenham-Paddington services terminating at Swindon in the morning so it looks much better as it stands.

edited for clarification of Cheltenham-Paddington services terminating at Swindon morning only.
UPDATE

Following on from Caroline’s post yesterday, another look at RTT this morning does now indeed show the xx.17 Paddington to Cardiff/Swansea and return services cancelled with an hourly service to/from South Wales.

Paddington to Bristol five cancellations 1600, 1700, 1800* 1900 and 2000. And return from Bristol with the 1630, 1730, 1830, 1930 and 2030 cancelled.

To confirm what we already knew that the South Cotswolds Line will operate between Cheltenham and Swindon only in the morning.

The good news is as things stand there is a full service on the WoE and North Cotswolds lines.

*Service to Plymouth starts at Bristol TM


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 21, 2019, 09:25:59
Today's situation seems to be getting worse every time you look, with last night, today and more chaos inevitably in store tomorrow it makes a mockery of GWR's message to travel by the 23rd.

I still don't see anything prominent on their website about alterations tomorrow.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 21, 2019, 15:39:14
Given that today is part of the "working week", one shudders to think what tomorrow will be like - all cancelled or foreshortened due to "crew shortage"- the message is, when they are most needed, you cannot rely on the railways or those who operate them.


13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 16:30
13:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:43
13:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 16:00
13:59 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:37
14:40 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:41
14:57 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:38
15:12 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 15:40
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:14
15:40 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
15:43 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 16:06
15:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
15:46 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:40
16:12 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 16:40
16:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:40
16:32 Westbury to Swindon due 17:24
16:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
16:59 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:37
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:18
17:12 St James' Park to Barnstaple due 18:39
17:33 Swindon to Westbury due 18:15
17:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:44
18:43 Barnstaple to St James' Park due 20:00
19:38 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 20:32
20:52 Frome to Westbury due 21:02
21:32 Southampton Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:30
10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 16:23
12:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 15:50
13:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 18:40
13:02 London Paddington to Penzance due 18:14
13:18 Hereford to London Paddington due 16:25
13:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 16:50
13:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:40
14:02 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:13
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:16
14:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 16:04
14:43 Great Malvern to Weymouth due 19:08
14:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:37
15:20 Paignton to Exmouth due 16:52
15:40 Barnstaple to St James' Park due 17:01
16:55 Great Malvern to Southampton Central due 20:40
17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 20:46
17:56 Exmouth to Paignton due 19:34
18:42 Gloucester to Frome due 20:43
20:16 St James' Park to Barnstaple due 21:31


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2019, 17:04:26
Yes TG it hasn’t been the best of days right from the off and not only IC services, local services have also seen cancellations and short run services, just ask Graham.

And as today is part of the working week on the railways, one can only think its down to high levels of sickness.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on December 21, 2019, 17:09:33
Given that today is part of the "working week", one shudders to think what tomorrow will be like - all cancelled or foreshortened due to "crew shortage"- the message is, when they are most needed, you cannot rely on the railways or those who operate them.


13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 16:30
13:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:43
13:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 16:00
13:59 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 15:37
14:40 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:41
14:57 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:38
15:12 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 15:40
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:14
15:40 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
15:43 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 16:06
15:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
15:46 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:40
16:12 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 16:40
16:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:40
16:32 Westbury to Swindon due 17:24
16:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
16:59 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:37
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:18
17:12 St James' Park to Barnstaple due 18:39
17:33 Swindon to Westbury due 18:15
17:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:44
18:43 Barnstaple to St James' Park due 20:00
19:38 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 20:32
20:52 Frome to Westbury due 21:02
21:32 Southampton Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:30
10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 16:23
12:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 15:50
13:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 18:40
13:02 London Paddington to Penzance due 18:14
13:18 Hereford to London Paddington due 16:25
13:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 16:50
13:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:40
14:02 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:13
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:16
14:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 16:04
14:43 Great Malvern to Weymouth due 19:08
14:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:37
15:20 Paignton to Exmouth due 16:52
15:40 Barnstaple to St James' Park due 17:01
16:55 Great Malvern to Southampton Central due 20:40
17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 20:46
17:56 Exmouth to Paignton due 19:34
18:42 Gloucester to Frome due 20:43
20:16 St James' Park to Barnstaple due 21:31


Add both the 1703 and 1803 PAD - PNZ to the above list. I hope the 1903 survives!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 21, 2019, 17:13:51
1803 Reinstated but will be pretty full carrying passengers booked on the cancelled 1703.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 21, 2019, 17:33:07
Yes TG it hasn’t been the best of days right from the off and not only IC services, local services have also seen cancellations and short run services, just ask Graham.

And as today is part of the working week on the railways, one can only think its down to high levels of sickness.

I did fear (and go on record on here saying) that launching the extra services in the new timetable before the maxed out holiday period in December was over was asking for trouble, though I understand why it happened.

I was pleasantly surprised how few cancellations there were during the week, but on the flip side I’m surprised just how many there are today.  Hopefully it’ll be a pleasant surprise again tomorrow and only the advertised cancellations will happen.

It will settle down considerably in the new year, but that’s no consolation to those affected today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 21, 2019, 19:47:10
Yes TG it hasn’t been the best of days right from the off and not only IC services, local services have also seen cancellations and short run services, just ask Graham.

And as today is part of the working week on the railways, one can only think its down to high levels of sickness.

Hopefully those afflicted today will rise, Lazarus like from their sickbeds & turn in tomorrow if that is indeed the reason (rather than too much leave being authorised or similar)...........there are grounds for cautious optimism......the medicinal & curative effect of the prospect of double time payments can work miracles........🙄


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 21, 2019, 21:51:46
Generally it you’re off sick on Saturday you can’t resume for duty on Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 21, 2019, 22:46:57
There was an interesting comment made on the WNXX Forum by an GWR 'insider' ......

Quote
It would seem that there was sort of issue with Integrale which meant that there were a number of diagrams missing at rostering stage.

This led to the belief that there was good coverage until the error was realised overnight, obviously by then it was too late!

Clearly there has been a mistake somewhere in the system.

Perhaps II can enlighten us as to what INTEGRALE is?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 21, 2019, 23:27:44
There was an interesting comment made on the WNXX Forum by an GWR 'insider' ......

Quote
It would seem that there was sort of issue with Integrale which meant that there were a number of diagrams missing at rostering stage.

This led to the belief that there was good coverage until the error was realised overnight, obviously by then it was too late!

Clearly there has been a mistake somewhere in the system.

Perhaps II can enlighten us as to what INTEGRALE is?

If you were more pally with Google ... you might find this from Railway Strategies (http://www.railway-strategies.com/2017/03/22/great-western-railway-2/) (whoever they are):

Quote
...
Integrale is a data analytics tool developed by Worldline that predicts events across the rail network and flags early to train controllers for effective resource planning and timetables. It gives controllers real-time access to operating information across the network so they can respond and resolve issues that occur much faster.

The main areas in which Great Western will realise the benefits of adopting Integrale are through better management of staff and resources, early handling of potential issues and streamlining of control processes.
...
"The new digital platform gives real time information on train operations for the Great Western controllers across the entire network which should help manage the network, especially during times of disruption; it better links the three main functions of running the network – stock, crew and journey. Integrale enables Control to have greater daily plan transparency across the business and the flexibility to cope with upcoming fleet cascades.”
...

(It's quite long). Of course II might give you a more objective view...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 22, 2019, 00:52:54
It is an all-signing, all-dancing system linking crew, stock and timetables that does improve the information flow and is described fairly well in the link Stuving put up.  It is only as good as the core data it's fed with though, so if there was a mess up at the rostering stage that is just the sort of error that can creep in when widescale changes are made, such as for the new timetable.  I don't know if the post on WNXX is accurate or not, but will report back if I hear anything. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: SandTEngineer on December 22, 2019, 09:28:29
Thanks for the replies, II and Stuving.  I did a quick 'Google' before posting but the only thing that came up was a model of car...... :P


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 22, 2019, 09:49:23
Cancellations so far due to crew shortage - more being added (it would seem) every few minutes) - a number of foreshortenings listed too, mostly affecting those seeking to travel beyond Swansea - good luck to anyone unfortunate enough to be travelling by rail today;

08:34 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 11:15
09:52 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:45
10:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 13:12
11:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 14:14
12:33 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:27
12:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:43
13:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 15:12
13:25 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:36
13:40 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:42
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:12
14:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:46
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:10
15:29 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:04
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 17:09
15:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:44
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:37
16:17 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:05
16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:08
16:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:37
17:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 19:12
17:29 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:38
17:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:06
17:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:42
18:17 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:05
18:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:14
18:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 20:09
18:58 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:47
19:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:37
19:17 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:08
19:21 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 23:29
19:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:04
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:05
20:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:34
20:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 22:10
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:15
21:26 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:01
22:00 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:51
22:05 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:39
22:37 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:11
23:33 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 01:31


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 22, 2019, 10:01:09
While the report I found last night talks about Integrale (or its use in GWR) being new within the last year, its date (which I missed out) was 2017. Integrale itself goes back even further, though it looks as if its use was rather narrower for stock allocation and has grown.

It is one of a whole soup-bowl of acronyms for what Network Rail have called Railway Code Systems (there's a catalogue of them). Some of those are obviously industry-wide, for example if NR runs them and everyone else joins in. For others, such as Integrale, it's less clear - for example this is NR's catalogue entry from 2015:
Quote
Overview: INTEGRALE combines data about the train service and its actual running with diagram and resource information and their associated rolling stock allocations and crew rosters. It is used as a real-time decision support tool within the controls to ensure the right resources are in the right place at the right time. Data is interfaced (from a wide range of industry and local systems) and can also be manually input. It enables users to have access to other businesses data (security permitting) to allow industry collaboration during times of disruption.

Of course the way software uses networking these days makes such a distinction hard to draw anyway, though if you're head of IT and security at one TOC it might interest you.

As an aside, this thread on railforums (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/diagramed-train-lengths.144327/) included several posts at the end from user JN114 - who works at GWR and describes the shuffling of information about train formations, part-manual and part-automatic, between acronyms to reach station displays.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 22, 2019, 12:20:56
It is an all-signing, all-dancing system linking crew, stock and timetables

Many a slip...  not enough staff signing on today...  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on December 22, 2019, 12:53:07
I've given up trying to travel to Carmarthen at the Weekend. Too unreliable, too crowded and too many long waits. I suspect its a common feeling

I did travel down Thursday evening on the direct train. Apart from having to travel into London as it no longer stops at Reading all went well. It was a 5+5 (splitting at Swansea) and so far as I could tell pretty empty. I'm use to being one of a few hardy souls at the end of line but under the previous timetable it was busy until Bristol. Hard to know if Christmas affected things although apparently it was (one of many) busiest travel days of the year according to the papers.

And I had my ticket checked for the first time in about a year.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Incider on December 22, 2019, 19:45:44
While the report I found last night talks about Integrale (or its use in GWR) being new within the last year, its date (which I missed out) was 2017. Integrale itself goes back even further, though it looks as if its use was rather narrower for stock allocation and has grown.

It is one of a whole soup-bowl of acronyms for what Network Rail have called Railway Code Systems (there's a catalogue of them). Some of those are obviously industry-wide, for example if NR runs them and everyone else joins in. For others, such as Integrale, it's less clear - for example this is NR's catalogue entry from 2015:
Quote
Overview: INTEGRALE combines data about the train service and its actual running with diagram and resource information and their associated rolling stock allocations and crew rosters. It is used as a real-time decision support tool within the controls to ensure the right resources are in the right place at the right time. Data is interfaced (from a wide range of industry and local systems) and can also be manually input. It enables users to have access to other businesses data (security permitting) to allow industry collaboration during times of disruption.

Of course the way software uses networking these days makes such a distinction hard to draw anyway, though if you're head of IT and security at one TOC it might interest you.

As an aside, this thread on railforums (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/diagramed-train-lengths.144327/) included several posts at the end from user JN114 - who works at GWR and describes the shuffling of information about train formations, part-manual and part-automatic, between acronyms to reach station displays.

It replaced a system called GENIUS which many would like to go back to......


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 22, 2019, 20:01:39
It replaced a system called GENIUS which many would like to go back to......

Doesn't GENIUS still exist, though? AIUI that is still used as a general on-line data viewer away from head office, but is no longer used (or "to be used") for stock allocation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Incider on December 22, 2019, 20:59:06
It replaced a system called GENIUS which many would like to go back to......

Doesn't GENIUS still exist, though? AIUI that is still used as a general on-line data viewer away from head office, but is no longer used (or "to be used") for stock allocation.

GENIUS does still exist and some TOC’s still use it as far as I am aware, but GWR only use the mobile version which staff can view on their phones (I can only assume that links to integrale, as it gives rosters, stock movements and crew diagrams).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 24, 2019, 13:37:04
As well as cancellations on the Transwilts, other West local services are also being affected by traincrew shortages.

Of particular note is a number of Cardiff-Portsmouth services terminating/starting at Westbury as well as cancellations on Devon/Cornwall branches.

With the SWR strike continuing, those travelling south of Westbury this afternoon/evening are going to find a somewhat limited service at times.

IC and Thames Valley services appear to running normally.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 27, 2019, 08:10:05
Welcome back to 55 cancellations and 15 services running short (as of 8am) mainly local services in Cornwall with all branch lines seeing quite a few cancellations. A few IC services affected. All good on the Transwilts so far.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on December 27, 2019, 08:41:12
That's just #$%&ed up a planned day out!  Back on the buses
Shambles


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 27, 2019, 09:28:53
It’s just got worse on one line:

Quote
Alterations to services between Truro and Falmouth Docks
Due to a shortage of train crew between Truro and Falmouth Docks:
Train services running to and from these stations will be suspended. Disruption is expected until 15:00 27/12.

Now up to 70 cancellations, sigh, with services between Southampton and Portsmouth joining the list. This wouldn’t usually be a problem but the strike affecting SWR services means services are much reduced on this line.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 27, 2019, 09:34:23
Welcome back to 55 cancellations and 15 services running short (as of 8am) mainly local services in Cornwall with all branch lines seeing quite a few cancellations. A few IC services affected. All good on the Transwilts so far.

70 cancellations now, Cornish branches decimated, Truro - Falmouth suspended.

How is this allowed to happen day after day? Is anyone taking responsibility for it? The last few weeks would suggest otherwise.

Christmas is always a pretty dismal time for customers with extreme overcrowding but at least in recent years the advertised service has (largely) run with a few additionals, this year GWR just seem to have given up.

Where are all the crew? (if the answer is "On holiday", then management need a boot to the backside for failing to manage their workforce to meet the needs of the business)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on December 27, 2019, 10:09:55
This won't help but I hope it's not too serious for those involved...

Cancellations to services between Penzance and Truro

Due to a person being hit by a train between Penzance and Truro all lines are blocked.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 27, 2019, 10:23:02
This won't help but I hope it's not too serious for those involved...

Cancellations to services between Penzance and Truro

Due to a person being hit by a train between Penzance and Truro all lines are blocked.



Indeed - it'll compound the situation - sympathy to all affected - disruption now expected until 1300.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 27, 2019, 10:26:28
70 cancellations now, Cornish branches decimated, Truro - Falmouth suspended.

How is this allowed to happen day after day? Is anyone taking responsibility for it? The last few weeks would suggest otherwise.


I have never run a big business - but I have run a small business, and also a small specialist department in a bigger company. Those operations have all required staff planning to cover scheduled opening hours, in one case cover from 06:30 or 07:30 to 21:00 with possible extension to 23:00 on short term demand.  And with someone always on call / able to be present within 15 minutes. And I would have been ashamed, and really feel I had let my customers down, if me and the team had been unable to achieve the cover - allowing for a failure of perhaps a few hours every year.  We did not have the addition of geographic spread nor safety work hour regulations (though we were, I believe, always safe) that the rail industry has.

So much of what we managed came down to working as a team, appreciating the need to look after the customers and for someone to work an anti-social shift to reach our combined objective. Often, this meant overtime hours over and above what made economic sense for the revenue raised during the extra shift.   Apart from the geography / work hour regulations / longer training periods in the rail industry, where are the differences? I suspect they're in staff relations, they're in recruitment where people who worked for me knew the mandated 24x7 cover when taken on, in the ability to pay for enough cover to ensure we could handle unexpected requirements, in the committment of everyone to the greater good and customer service and, dare I say it, to planning for the cover.

This is not just a GWR problem though ... I have been watching Recent Train Times logs for Northern on a facebook group (like the Transwilts one I posted here a couple of days ago) and they too have a lot of orange - perhaps the same proportion.  From a TransWilts viewpoint, the difference was the number of successive trains cancelled, and the wait time for the next service (if there was one) ...15 or 30 minutes is rather different to [insert number] hours.  I have even come across a rail industry organisation who are DfT recognised to represent the community who posted "We will be shutting up shop for the festive season from 24th Dec to 6th Jan. From all at [name deleted] - we wish you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!" ... while we leave you to fend for yourselves!

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/nrx19.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wbx19.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 27, 2019, 10:40:21
This won't help but I hope it's not too serious for those involved...

Cancellations to services between Penzance and Truro

Due to a person being hit by a train between Penzance and Truro all lines are blocked.



Indeed - it'll compound the situation - sympathy to all affected - disruption now expected until 1300.
Cornwall Live not showing any additional information as yet
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/live-trains-rail-cornwall-cancelled-3682861
Person hit by train and rail services cancelled across Cornwall - latest updates
continues..


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 27, 2019, 17:24:10
Looks like they’ve found someone to work the Southampton-Portsmouth’s as they’ve been removed from the cancellation list so some good news there.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on December 27, 2019, 18:07:44
This won't help but I hope it's not too serious for those involved...

Cancellations to services between Penzance and Truro

Due to a person being hit by a train between Penzance and Truro all lines are blocked.



Indeed - it'll compound the situation - sympathy to all affected - disruption now expected until 1300.
Cornwall Live not showing any additional information as yet
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/live-trains-rail-cornwall-cancelled-3682861
Person hit by train and rail services cancelled across Cornwall - latest updates
continues..

Sadly, the person died at the scene.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 27, 2019, 19:14:51
Welcome back to 55 cancellations and 15 services running short (as of 8am) mainly local services in Cornwall with all branch lines seeing quite a few cancellations. A few IC services affected. All good on the Transwilts so far.

70 cancellations now, Cornish branches decimated, Truro - Falmouth suspended.

How is this allowed to happen day after day? Is anyone taking responsibility for it? The last few weeks would suggest otherwise.

Christmas is always a pretty dismal time for customers with extreme overcrowding but at least in recent years the advertised service has (largely) run with a few additionals, this year GWR just seem to have given up.

Where are all the crew? (if the answer is "On holiday", then management need a boot to the backside for failing to manage their workforce to meet the needs of the business)

We went as a group of (including toddlers) 10 of us to Looe today, a 17 seater minibus was being used to replace the trains that weren’t running. We planned our day to come back on the 1506 which was showing running as wouldn’t be right to take majority of the transport as a large group.

Hypothetically if we’d wanted to come back at 130* or 140* would delay repay be eligible for us coming back at 150* because we chose not to take over the sole minibus. We took the kids to the arcade and the park to waste the extra time as it was a nice day so not a big problem for us (we’d intended coming back earlier)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 27, 2019, 21:02:05
Cornwall Live not showing any additional information as yet
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/local-news/live-trains-rail-cornwall-cancelled-3682861
Person hit by train and rail services cancelled across Cornwall - latest updates
continues..

Sadly, the person died at the scene.

A little more from this is the West Country (https://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/cornwall_news/18124990.rail-services-penzance-truro-affected-person-hit-train/)

Quote
A British Transport Police spokesperson said: "Officers were called to lines in Truro at 9.49am this morning following reports of a casualty on the tracks.

“Paramedics also attended however sadly a person has been pronounced dead at the scene.

“Officers are now working to identify the person and inform their family.

“The incident is not being treated as suspicious and a file will be prepared for the coroner.”


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on December 28, 2019, 00:36:44
Looks like they’ve found someone to work the Southampton-Portsmouth’s as they’ve been removed from the cancellation list so some good news there.

A lot of the early Southampton to Portsmouth cancellations were reported as being caused by a unit being vandalised at Fratton over the Christmas period and not being fit for service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 28, 2019, 08:44:24
Similar crew shortage problems today causing cancellations/foreshortenings, to which are added an additional number of short formations from Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington (5 instead of 10), ensuring some extremely uncomfortable journeys.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 28, 2019, 12:11:03
Similar crew shortage problems today causing cancellations/foreshortenings, to which are added an additional number of short formations from Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington (5 instead of 10), ensuring some extremely uncomfortable journeys.
Now now TG, you’re forgetting the mantra A five coach train is better than no train.

People can moan that Broadgage has gone on about it but we are continually seeing five coach trains in place of full length trains more than two years on from the introduction of the IETs. It’s become quite clear this won’t ever change thanks to the myriad of reasons that you can come up with for only running a half length train. Only solution, lengthening the five car IETs. That means only one thing though... ooooozzzzz gonna pay for it!?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 28, 2019, 12:24:01
There will indeed be some crowded trains, and I note "more requiring service at the same time" type reasons.  A person was hit by a train near Box about a week ago, and a car hit by a train at Bradford-on-Tone soon thereafter. Another person was hit by a train in Cornwall yesterday.  Such events lead to a train requiring unscheduled attention before its return to service, and indeed also reduce driver availability for what I'm pretty sure is a longer period. How much could these events (and others I may have looked past) be causing part of the current shortage - a significant amount, or are they just a tiny bit of the story?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 28, 2019, 12:38:53
Similar crew shortage problems today causing cancellations/foreshortenings, to which are added an additional number of short formations from Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington (5 instead of 10), ensuring some extremely uncomfortable journeys.
Now now TG, you’re forgetting the mantra A five coach train is better than no train.

People can moan that Broadgage has gone on about it but we are continually seeing five coach trains in place of full length trains more than two years on from the introduction of the IETs. It’s become quite clear this won’t ever change thanks to the myriad of reasons that you can come up with for only running a half length train. Only solution, lengthening the five car IETs. That means only one thing though... ooooozzzzz gonna pay for it!?

I would argue that Hitachi should lengthen a few of the 5 car units to 9 car at their expense.
As compensation to the customer for not meeting the promised levels of availability and the consequent overcrowding.
We fairly regularly see a dozen or more half length trains a day, perhaps three or four diagrams.
Lengthening 4 of the 5 car units to 9 car would greatly reduce short formations.

It might be worth GWR paying for additional lengthening, but it seems reasonable for Hitachi to pay for the first few.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 28, 2019, 13:11:30
It might be worth GWR paying for additional lengthening, but it seems reasonable for Hitachi to pay for the first few.

That might be the best way of getting a deal done, but it won't be any time soon IMHO.

Allocations are all over the place today, as there's long formations (9-car units working 5-car diagrams) as well as the short ones. 

Though I will (once again!) stress that you can't believe anything on JourneyCheck, the following showing as 5-cars:
10:57 Paddington to Plymouth - but is a 9-car 800
11:57 Paddington to Penzance - but is a 9-car 802
15:15 Plymouth to London Paddington - but is a 9-car 800
17:50 Penzance to London Paddington - but is a 9-car 802

 I will give it until the end of January before, if it remains regularly more than one diagram a day that's short (for whatever reason other than really exceptional ones), I will agree that something should be done.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: tomL on December 28, 2019, 20:32:29
Speaking of all over the place today...

I took the 1330 from Swindon to Gloucester which ended up being 26 mins late (annoyingly close to the next delay repay tier  ::) ). The reason for the delay was waiting for the driver from a late running Bristol to Paddington train which appeared to be scheduled for 1338 but arrived at 1350 in the end. Seems like some shuffling is taking place behind the scenes to keep things moving but surely this would never be possible as a standard diagram? ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 28, 2019, 21:17:30
The reason for the delay was waiting for the driver from a late running Bristol to Paddington train which appeared to be scheduled for 1338 but arrived at 1350 in the end. Seems like some shuffling is taking place behind the scenes to keep things moving but surely this would never be possible as a standard diagram? ???

All being well they should have worked the 12:28 from Bristol to Swindon arriving at 13:03, but all wasn't well so they travelled on the one you mention arriving around 13:50. 

Diagramming crew together onto the same train for as long as possible is one way of helping deal with disruption and reduce the knock-on effects you might otherwise get.  But over the years there seems to have been a slow change towards trying to economise the number of diagrams and at the same time expand the number of depots, so more trains have crew swapping over mid-way through.  Saves money on paper, but causes additional problems in reality.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: lordgoata on December 28, 2019, 21:33:19
Similar crew shortage problems today causing cancellations/foreshortenings, to which are added an additional number of short formations from Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington (5 instead of 10), ensuring some extremely uncomfortable journeys.

Not that it is any consolation, but all the Great Northern trains from Kings Cross to Cambridge were also cancelled due to lack of train crews today, so its not just GWR. Did mean I got to experience a different route out of Liverpool Street with Greater Anglia, but thats not something I wish to repeat, the train was so old I was surprised it didn't fall apart on the way...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 29, 2019, 08:04:39
Similar crew shortage problems today causing cancellations/foreshortenings, to which are added an additional number of short formations from Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington (5 instead of 10), ensuring some extremely uncomfortable journeys.

Not that it is any consolation, but all the Great Northern trains from Kings Cross to Cambridge were also cancelled due to lack of train crews today, so its not just GWR. Did mean I got to experience a different route out of Liverpool Street with Greater Anglia, but thats not something I wish to repeat, the train was so old I was surprised it didn't fall apart on the way...

I followed up and got rather dragged off topic looking far wider - so I have split the topic.  Looking at crew shortages and where the railway might be going in coming years ... http://www.passenger.chat/22668


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 30, 2019, 20:39:14
I would argue that Hitachi should lengthen a few of the 5 car units to 9 car at their expense.
As compensation to the customer for not meeting the promised levels of availability and the consequent overcrowding.
We fairly regularly see a dozen or more half length trains a day, perhaps three or four diagrams.
Lengthening 4 of the 5 car units to 9 car would greatly reduce short formations.

It might be worth GWR paying for additional lengthening, but it seems reasonable for Hitachi to pay for the first few.

Well Hitachi have made no bones about the fact they want a rail franchise.....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 26, 2020, 11:21:47
A handful of HSS cancellations today due to train crew shortages.  That might not seem too bad, but it bodes very badly for the summer on Sunday's if they can't muster up enough crew on a late January to operate the advertised service!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 08, 2020, 08:16:52
All cancelled - no crew. Rather fortunate that Wales are playing in Dublin today.

Several foreshortenings as well.

A number of the Welsh services that are running are 5 instead of 9/10 too which won't help.

11:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 13:40
12:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:14
12:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:44
13:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 15:18
13:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:43
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:14
14:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:41
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:12
15:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
16:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 18:12
16:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:44
18:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:31


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 08, 2020, 08:33:14
All cancelled - no crew. Rather fortunate that Wales are playing in Dublin today.
First silly thought I had was that was the reason for the high number of cancellations on services to and from South Wales was because they wanted to stay home and watch the match on the telly! But Saturday is part of the working week so it must be down to high levels of staff sickness.

When I saw the list I thought is it Sunday as that’s what I’m expecting to see tomorrow; possibly much longer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 08, 2020, 08:40:53
All cancelled - no crew. Rather fortunate that Wales are playing in Dublin today.

But Saturday is part of the working week so it must be down to high levels of staff sickness.



In rugby circles it's known as "International Flu", and tends to strike around this time of year every year, always at weekends (for some reason!)  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 08, 2020, 08:57:56
I think with the forecasted storm tomorrow and the blanket speed restriction across virtually the entire network ticket restrictions have been lifted so passengers can travel today or Monday which won’t help.
I understand they have planned for major disruption with crew diagrams abandoned. Trains will just run when they’re available and then crewed accordingly


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 08, 2020, 10:04:10
Indeed, expect a lot of delays tomorrow as 50mph restrictions are being enforced in several areas due to the exceptional winds expected.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 08, 2020, 12:00:08
All cancelled - no crew. Rather fortunate that Wales are playing in Dublin today.

Several foreshortenings as well.

A number of the Welsh services that are running are 5 instead of 9/10 too which won't help.

11:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 13:40
12:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:14
12:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:44
13:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 15:18
13:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:43
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:14
14:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:41
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:12
15:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
16:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 18:12
16:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:44
18:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:31

These Cardiff’s are all additional trains to what used to run on Saturday‘s up until December.  It doesn’t look good for weekend travel over the summer if they can’t find crew for them in February.  Had the rugby been on I’m sure other routes would have suffered instead.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 08, 2020, 14:52:33
All cancelled - no crew. Rather fortunate that Wales are playing in Dublin today.

Several foreshortenings as well.

A number of the Welsh services that are running are 5 instead of 9/10 too which won't help.

11:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 13:40
12:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:14
12:49 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 14:44
13:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 15:18
13:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:43
14:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 16:14
14:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 16:41
15:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 17:12
15:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
16:17 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 18:12
16:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 18:44
17:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 19:44
18:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
19:47 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:31

These Cardiff’s are all additional trains to what used to run on Saturday‘s up until December.  It doesn’t look good for weekend travel over the summer if they can’t find crew for them in February.  Had the rugby been on I’m sure other routes would have suffered instead.

I thought Saturdays were part of the working week? Why therefore would there be a problem finding crew for them?

It'd be interesting to know where all the missing crew were today.

As for tomorrow, at least there seems to be some communication taking place;

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information

Absolutely no excuse for trains being shortformed in these circumstances


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on February 08, 2020, 15:00:58
Quote
As for tomorrow, at least there seems to be some communication taking place;
https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information
A sensible thinning out of the timetable given the forecast giving the best chance of running something usable. However that will be subject to what affect the weather has on the network in our part of the world.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on February 08, 2020, 16:57:20
I thought Saturdays were part of the working week? Why therefore would there be a problem finding crew for them?

It'd be interesting to know where all the missing crew were today.


Would be interesting to know if these cancellations are all Swansea based diagrams, there seems to be very few other mass cancellations affecting other depots.  This would indicate an issue such as depot rosters/diagrams have not been agreed between GWR and the union and they’re working on emergency rostering.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 09, 2020, 09:08:17
As for tomorrow, at least there seems to be some communication taking place;

https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information

Absolutely no excuse for trains being shortformed in these circumstances

No IET short forms currently listed.  There may well be tomorrow though depending on what ends up where at the end of the day as stock will be all over the place compared with the base diagrams.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on February 19, 2020, 14:17:57
Cornish branch lines losing a few services today and that's without having to run the St Ives. Half term??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 23, 2020, 08:15:36
Cancelled today so far........

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:30
10:54 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:59
16:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:32
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
19:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 21:33
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:59
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:15
21:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:01
21:58 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 22:59
22:37 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:11
23:09 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 00:13


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on February 23, 2020, 10:01:55
Cancelled today so far........

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:30
10:54 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:59
16:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:32
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
19:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 21:33
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:59
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:15
21:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:01
21:58 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 22:59
22:37 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:11
23:09 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 00:13

I think the cancellations on the Golden Valley are partially due to a defective rail between Kemble and Swindon


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Rob on the hill on February 23, 2020, 10:26:18
Cancelled today so far........

08:27 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:30
10:54 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:59
16:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:32
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
19:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 21:33
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:59
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 23:15
21:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:01
21:58 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 22:59
22:37 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 00:11
23:09 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 00:13

I think the cancellations on the Golden Valley are partially due to a defective rail between Kemble and Swindon

It is shortage of train crew according to Journycheck. The defective rail is causing delays of up to 10 minutes.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on March 08, 2020, 11:19:41
Seems that GWR are short of Twitter Crew today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 14, 2020, 17:07:00
All cancelled - crew shortage - doesn't bode well for Sunday

14:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:00
15:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
16:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:00
17:28 Cardiff Central to Swansea due 18:25
17:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:08
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:32
18:17 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:08
18:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:32
19:03 London Paddington to Castle Cary due 20:40
19:10 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:15
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:07 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:12
20:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:28
21:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 23:05
21:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:05


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on March 14, 2020, 17:44:56
All cancelled - crew shortage - doesn't bode well for Sunday

14:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:00
15:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:40
16:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:00
17:28 Cardiff Central to Swansea due 18:25
17:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:08
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:32
18:17 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:08
18:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:32
19:03 London Paddington to Castle Cary due 20:40
19:10 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:15
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:07 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:12
20:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:28
21:00 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 23:05
21:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:05

Quite a few organisations I have heard about recently have a number of staff self isolating.  I think this might get worse in the next few weeks and there is nothing we or GWR are able to do about it. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on March 14, 2020, 18:26:22
Indeed, under present circumstances I am rather more forgiving of GWR for staff shortages.
It is the failure to provide enough staff under NORMAL circumstances that I find hard to forgive.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on March 14, 2020, 18:48:27
I wonder if they might ask recently retired staff for help???


 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 15, 2020, 11:00:36
The usual routes cancelled on a Sunday due to crew shortage (a number of foreshortenings too), I guess whether it's self isolation or Spring BBQs, the public will probably be used to finding alternatives so the impact will be mitigated;

12:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 14:31
13:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 15:31
14:36 London Paddington to Castle Cary due 16:10
14:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:02
15:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 17:59
16:24 Castle Cary to London Paddington due 18:06
16:36 London Paddington to Castle Cary due 18:10
17:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
18:24 Castle Cary to London Paddington due 20:07
18:36 London Paddington to Castle Cary due 20:09
18:58 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:38
19:29 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:04
19:32 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 21:33
19:58 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 21:59


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 15, 2020, 11:42:42
GWR following Government advice and telling any employees with a high temperature or new bad cough self isolate.

It remains to be seen whether shortages of staff will lead to an emergency timetable on some routes as the virus spreads, or whether there will be a small number of daily cancellations as per today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 15, 2020, 11:47:05
The usual routes cancelled on a Sunday due to crew shortage (a number of foreshortenings too), I guess whether it's self isolation or Spring BBQs, the public will probably be used to finding alternatives so the impact will be mitigated ...

For the sake of "completeness" ... I was in multi-operator territory yesterday and there were also crew shortages causing cancellations removing services I planned to use on West Midland Trains and Cross Country (and a GWR cancellation "person hit by train").     As one would expect, the railway industry is set up to have a certain level of contingency after which it starts to fall apart - however, I am disappointed at how close that contingency appears to be to the normal daily operation and how often things fall apart.  It does look as if GWR is very much a player within this system, and not a case of the problems being purely of its own making.

Quote
public will probably be used to finding alternatives

Yeah ... time and again, information boards and staff (however nice they may be) seem to be inaccurate and doling out inaccurate or wrong advise.  And for longer / more complex journeys the public - especially those who know the rail network along their whole path - are well advised to listen and read, but then question and check other sources too.   Result of doing that yesterday ... I got home over an hour and a half earlier than had I followed advise which was given with the best of intent and would have got me home ... but ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 15, 2020, 16:44:47
GWR following Government advice and telling any employees with a high temperature or new bad cough self isolate.

It remains to be seen whether shortages of staff will lead to an emergency timetable on some routes as the virus spreads, or whether there will be a small number of daily cancellations as per today.

Plenty of opportunity to arrange contingencies/bus replacements - there'll be less demand with schools closing so the coach companies will be glad of the work!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 15, 2020, 17:35:54
I wouldn’t disagree with that.  Also of course there may well be a fraction of the number of passengers travelling, potentially largely prohibited from doing so, so extensive contingency planning might not be required.  We’ll just have to see how it all pans out.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 15, 2020, 17:44:53
I wouldn’t disagree with that.  Also of course there may well be a fraction of the number of passengers travelling, potentially largely prohibited from doing so, so extensive contingency planning might not be required.  We’ll just have to see how it all pans out.

There was a French government announcement about planned railway service levels - down to about half or one-third of train numbers. That was linked to much lower passenger numbers, due to the significant big stick close-everything measures of yesterday, balanced against needing to keep people far enough apart. I'm not sure I expect such a clear logical explanation of what's being done here.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2020, 19:33:03
I wouldn’t disagree with that.  Also of course there may well be a fraction of the number of passengers travelling, potentially largely prohibited from doing so, so extensive contingency planning might not be required.  We’ll just have to see how it all pans out.

There was a French government announcement about planned railway service levels - down to about half or one-third of train numbers. That was linked to much lower passenger numbers, due to the significant big stick close-everything measures of yesterday, balanced against needing to keep people far enough apart. I'm not sure I expect such a clear logical explanation of what's being done here.

Greetings from Callac in Brittany, where cafes, restaurants, the cinema and non-food shops are indeed shuting down, although a couple of restaurants have interpreted this as being able to remain open for takeaways only. Food shops, the chemist, banks, our tabac (with bar area closed off) petrol stations and vets will remain open, along with the town hall and post office.

We are not quite under "lockdown" in the Spanish sense, where apparently they are sending drones up to tell people to stay indoors, but there's a sense that sort of tightening up may not be far off.

Train-wise in this part of the world, the first revised timetables starting from Monday have Guingamp-Carhaix and Guingamp-Paimpol lines running as normal, with a slightly reduced service on the main lines towards Lannion, Saint Brieuc etc. Always the expected "subject to change as the situation develops" of course.

Also, as may well have been mentioned elsewhere on the forum, France will progressively reduce long-distance train, bus and plane travel over the coming days to limit the spread of the virus, according to the ecology minister Elisabeth Borne. This may well prove even more pressing given the upcoming closure of the border with Germany.

I certainly wouldn't rule out suspension of UK-France travel as well in the near future, but at the moment in terms of Brittany Ferries, all Portsmouth-Caen, Portsmouth-St Malo, and Poole-Cherbourg services are running normally in both directions.

Portsmouth-Cherbourg services are currently slated to resume on April 30, 2020. All Portsmouth-Le Havre services are cancelled until April 8.

Seven Plymouth-Roscoff services have been cancelled between now and April 9.

On a personal note, myself and Nicki are currently alive and well, and are preparing to focus on remaining as fit and sane as possible going forward as this thing pans out. We are living in a department that has one of the lowest levels of confirmed virus cases in the country, and hopefully that will continue.

As an aside, as an Irish Citizen, Nicki voted in the French local elections which, to the surprise of many, went ahead today as planned.

I may attempt a local trip out by train next Friday to see how things are going, but that will obviously depend on how practical and responsible doing that turns out to be.

Stay safe everyone   :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 15, 2020, 19:46:30
I certainly wouldn't rule out suspension of UK-France travel as well in the near future, but at the moment in terms of Brittany Ferries, all Portsmouth-Caen, Portsmouth-St Malo, and Poole-Cherbourg services are running normally in both directions.

Portsmouth-Cherbourg services are currently slated to resume on April 30, 2020. All Portsmouth-Le Havre services are cancelled until April 8.

Seven Plymouth-Roscoff services have been cancelled between now and April 9.

BF have already made some further cancellations, complete for some (only some?) of the Spanish and "to consolidate some of our services" for others. They may be just returning people from Spain - and for all routes they (and others) must be expected to run down service levels even more.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 16, 2020, 07:47:25
Greetings from Callac in Brittany, where cafes, restaurants, the cinema and non-food shops are indeed shuting down, although a couple of restaurants have interpreted this as being able to remain open for takeaways only. Food shops, the chemist, banks, our tabac (with bar area closed off) petrol stations and vets will remain open, along with the town hall and post office. .... [snip]

Greeting, Lee ... with many thanks for that update. Although you're now located some distance away, there's a curious kickback in the current virus crisis that brings us closer.    Look after yourselves - see you much more (please ;-) ) on the forum ...

Updates "from my area" probably a good idea all around the Coffee Shop ...



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 16, 2020, 08:36:44
Only one cancellation today (so far) due to crew shortage - the weekend "self isolation" seems to have done the trick!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on March 16, 2020, 20:44:01
Greetings from Callac in Brittany, where cafes, restaurants, the cinema and non-food shops are indeed shuting down, although a couple of restaurants have interpreted this as being able to remain open for takeaways only. Food shops, the chemist, banks, our tabac (with bar area closed off) petrol stations and vets will remain open, along with the town hall and post office. .... [snip]

Greeting, Lee ... with many thanks for that update. Although you're now located some distance away, there's a curious kickback in the current virus crisis that brings us closer.    Look after yourselves - see you much more (please ;-) ) on the forum ...

Updates "from my area" probably a good idea all around the Coffee Shop ...

Now under actual lockdown for at least 15 days - Oh joy!

I certainly wouldn't rule out suspension of UK-France travel as well in the near future, but at the moment in terms of Brittany Ferries, all Portsmouth-Caen, Portsmouth-St Malo, and Poole-Cherbourg services are running normally in both directions.

Portsmouth-Cherbourg services are currently slated to resume on April 30, 2020. All Portsmouth-Le Havre services are cancelled until April 8.

Seven Plymouth-Roscoff services have been cancelled between now and April 9.

BF have already made some further cancellations, complete for some (only some?) of the Spanish and "to consolidate some of our services" for others. They may be just returning people from Spain - and for all routes they (and others) must be expected to run down service levels even more.

Spot on stuving predictions there. All UK-France Brittany Ferries except Portsmouth-Caen to be withdrawn over next couple of days, and Spanish services indeed only operating to return people from Spain.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 21, 2020, 20:04:27
Spot on stuving predictions there. All UK-France Brittany Ferries except Portsmouth-Caen to be withdrawn over next couple of days, and Spanish services indeed only operating to return people from Spain.
[/quote]

And yesterday, a full shutdown of passenger services:
Quote
Following advice given by governments in all countries to which we sail, we have been forced to temporarily suspend passenger services connecting the UK, Ireland, France and Spain. We apologise sincerely to all those affected.

All passenger sailings between the UK and France, Ireland and France and Ireland-Spain have ceased operating for the time-being. The final passenger repatriation service leaving Spain for the UK this weekend is full.

A small number of ships in our fleet will continue to operate with limited crew as a lifeline freight-only service. During this period of uncertainty we must do all we can to ensure that essential goods continue to flow freely.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 24, 2020, 09:15:13
Slowly coming back to the weekend cancellation normal
Journeycheck today
Other Train Service Updates
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18 will be started from Bourne End.
It will no longer call at Marlow.
This is due to a shortage of station staff.
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 24, 2020, 09:42:06
Slowly coming back to the weekend cancellation normal
Journeycheck today
Other Train Service Updates
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18 will be started from Bourne End.
It will no longer call at Marlow.
This is due to a shortage of station staff.
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Note one of these amendments was due to a lack of platform staff rather than on board crew - slightly unusual.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 24, 2020, 10:22:47
Slowly coming back to the weekend cancellation normal
Journeycheck today
Other Train Service Updates
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18 will be started from Bourne End.
It will no longer call at Marlow.
This is due to a shortage of station staff.
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47
09:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:47 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Note one of these amendments was due to a lack of platform staff rather than on board crew - slightly unusual.

and yesterday we were back to some 5 vice 9 shortforms too - wonderful that normal service is gradually being restored!!!  :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Marlburian on May 24, 2020, 10:42:07
...
08:55 Marlow to Maidenhead due 09:18 will be started from Bourne End.
It will no longer call at Marlow.
This is due to a shortage of station staff...

As I won't be travelling by train for some time, I haven't bothered much with this thread, but my eye was caught by this excerpt. My first thought was that the reason was to make up time for connections at Maidenhead (though I suspect that at whatever time the train arrived at the town there would have been winners and losers, depending on whether one was heading east or west). But why did a shortage of station staff, presumably at Marlow, cause the problem? Are they now deemed essential to implement social distancing? I have a vague idea that any pre-Lockdown staffing at Marlow was quite limited.

In ignorance ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on May 24, 2020, 11:02:05
Marlow is unmanned so a puzzle. Bourne End and Cookham are manned weekday mornings as I believe should Furze Platt.

Maybe they meam a guard to do the token at Bourne End.

The other thing with not serving Marlow is that there is no bus service from Bourne End to Marlow you have to go via  High Wycombe on two separate buses.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on May 24, 2020, 11:40:05
Marlow is unmanned so a puzzle. Bourne End and Cookham are manned weekday mornings as I believe should Furze Platt.

Maybe they meam a guard to do the token at Bourne End.

The other thing with not serving Marlow is that there is no bus service from Bourne End to Marlow you have to go via  High Wycombe on two separate buses.

That is the first train from Marlow, using a unit that went there last night - or didn't apparently, though RTT shows no excusereason. This morning's first leg from Marlow shows as cancelled "due to a planning error (TI)". So something a bit more complicated was going on here, and may have happened last night.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 24, 2020, 12:09:03
Not shown on the original post but the 08:29 from Maidenhead to Marlow was also cancelled for the same reason.

I know there are some platforms where trains cannot be self despatched - perhaps platform 5 at Maidenhead is one of them?   Train could though have departed empty to make its return working, but with a delay so could only reach Bourne End in time.   Well that's my Sunday speculation done for the day.   ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 24, 2020, 12:40:54
Service terminated at Bourne End last night at 00:19 as planned from Marlow, unit was due to run empty to Maidenhead this morning to form the 08:29 but didn't.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on August 29, 2020, 05:51:12
Welcome back to an old favourite!

First few Liskeard - Looe cancelled this morning and an Exeter-Penzance starting short.

B-B-Q anyone? 😁😁


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on August 29, 2020, 08:04:21
It's far too early to be short of crews, surely?
Thought it was from tomorrow that the full timetable was due to run.
Oddly, at our work place, we have 3 train driver wannabees who are all waiting for the driver manager interview; they were told before lockdown that this would be delayed as there was a backlog of trainee drivers to be assessed and regular training to be done before their interviews were scheduled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 20, 2020, 07:29:12
Signs that service is returning to normal.....Sunday so cancellations due to staff shortage....late summer BBQ?...
....hardly the way to attract people back to the railway 🤦‍♂️


13:45 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 16:31
17:00 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 19:30
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:38
19:07 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:45
20:46 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 23:03
21:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:01


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on October 29, 2020, 09:52:03
Is it me?

This week has not been good for the Cornish branches with 'shortage of train crew'.
Several local services downgraded to 2 or 3 coaches, and IET's also downsized.

It may be half term down here, but it's certainly not B-B-Q weather  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2020, 12:04:54
Is it me?

This week has not been good for the Cornish branches with 'shortage of train crew'.
Several local services downgraded to 2 or 3 coaches, and IET's also downsized.

It may be half term down here, but it's certainly not B-B-Q weather  ::)

I don't think it's you.

A very popular week for annual leave requests, with quite a few people denied leave.  The usual race to get rid of all annual leave before the end of the year is on, so I would expect the usual cancellations in the run up to Christmas, assuming the "94%" timetable continues to operate and especially if the virus continues to spread and more staff are self-isolating.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 08, 2020, 11:14:24
Staff shortages continue apace unfortunately each week.
In our establishment we have three guys who are waiting for the (train) driver manager interview, having passed all the exams in the run up to that.  They've been waiting for nigh on a year, and with C-19 will have to wait much longer.
There will be others in other jobs also waiting for that interview.

On a different note, it's saddening to also note 'more trains than usual wanting repair'.
Many services having reduced carriages.
Surely they've had sufficient repair time!
Yes, they all require routine services, but there seems a constant stock shortage whilst units are taken off the road for routines.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 10, 2020, 06:42:56
All cancelled due to staff shortage today;

06:33 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 07:19
07:29 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 08:14
09:21 Par to Newquay due 10:13
10:23 Newquay to Par due 11:12
12:36 Liskeard to Looe due 13:04
13:06 Looe to Liskeard due 13:34
13:36 Liskeard to Looe due 14:05
14:08 Looe to Liskeard due 14:33
15:40 Liskeard to Looe due 16:13
16:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 18:01
16:16 Looe to Liskeard due 16:42
16:55 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:31
17:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 19:02
18:08 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 20:25
18:52 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 19:43
19:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 20:05
20:37 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 21:10
21:00 Cardiff Central to Exeter St Davids due 23:37
21:12 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 22:09
21:17 Par to Plymouth due 22:10
21:24 Exmouth to Paignton due 22:59
21:30 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:23
21:30 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 22:16
22:20 Gunnislake to Exeter St Davids due 00:20
22:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 23:14
22:40 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 23:14
22:43 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:47
23:19 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 23:50
23:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 00:11
00:01 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 00:47


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on December 10, 2020, 12:55:45
All cancelled due to staff shortage today;

06:33 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 07:19
07:29 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 08:14
09:21 Par to Newquay due 10:13
10:23 Newquay to Par due 11:12
12:36 Liskeard to Looe due 13:04
13:06 Looe to Liskeard due 13:34
13:36 Liskeard to Looe due 14:05
14:08 Looe to Liskeard due 14:33
15:40 Liskeard to Looe due 16:13
16:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 18:01
16:16 Looe to Liskeard due 16:42
16:55 Exmouth to Paignton due 18:31
17:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 19:02
18:08 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 20:25
18:52 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 19:43
19:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 20:05
20:37 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 21:10
21:00 Cardiff Central to Exeter St Davids due 23:37
21:12 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 22:09
21:17 Par to Plymouth due 22:10
21:24 Exmouth to Paignton due 22:59
21:30 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:23
21:30 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 22:16
22:20 Gunnislake to Exeter St Davids due 00:20
22:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 23:14
22:40 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 23:14
22:43 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:47
23:19 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 23:50
23:20 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 00:11
00:01 Paignton to Exeter St Davids due 00:47


And quite a few more short distancing


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 10, 2020, 13:30:47
Some services now re-instated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 11, 2020, 10:16:27
Staff shortage continues apace -
24 Train Cancellations
09:36 Liskeard to Looe due 10:05
09:54 Basingstoke to Reading due 10:19
10:08 Looe to Liskeard due 10:34
11:15 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 11:39
11:36 Liskeard to Looe due 12:05
11:45 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 12:13
11:45 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 12:09
12:08 Looe to Liskeard due 12:33
12:15 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 12:43
12:45 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 13:09
13:15 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 13:43
14:16 Par to Newquay due 15:08
14:18 St Erth to St Ives due 14:29
14:33 St Ives to St Erth due 14:44
15:10 Newquay to Par due 15:58
15:57 Bristol Parkway to Exeter St Davids due 17:09
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
17:58 Exeter St Davids to Bristol Parkway due 19:08
18:07 London Paddington to Frome due 20:07
18:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 20:32
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
20:15 Frome to Westbury due 20:25
20:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 23:00
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot due 21:52

5 services terminating short
5 Other Train Service Updates
08:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 13:39
08:27 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:51
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:29
18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 23:07
19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35

And short formations
05:58 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29
10:32 Reading to Basingstoke due 11:00
11:23 Basingstoke to Reading due 11:49
12:07 Reading to Basingstoke due 12:34
12:53 Basingstoke to Reading due 13:18
13:32 Reading to Basingstoke due 13:59
14:23 Basingstoke to Reading due 14:48
15:05 Reading to Basingstoke due 15:32
15:54 Basingstoke to Reading due 16:18
16:33 Reading to Basingstoke due 17:03
17:18 Basingstoke to Reading due 17:47


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 11, 2020, 16:24:29
Cancelling/terminating short long distance services to the Westcountry in this way is hardly likely to attract people back to the railway, especially as we're still a couple of weeks from Christmas - people will be asking themselves if it happens now, what will it be like in 2 weeks time and likely reaching for the car keys instead.

Is there any news on the activities of the newly appointed Christmas Travel Tsar yet?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 12, 2020, 07:15:36
Even more cancellations today (well, it IS the weekend!) and even more short form and short terminators.

As said earlier, we have 3 staff waiting for the train driver manager interview before (hopefully) commencing driver training!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 12, 2020, 08:42:07
Even more cancellations today (well, it IS the weekend!) and even more short form and short terminators.

A good morning to test clickable maps  ;D

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/canc_20201212.jpg) (http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on December 12, 2020, 09:23:50
The GWR website is asserting that there is that there is a "Good service on most of our network", despite the fact that there are currently 43 trains cancelled for all or part of their journey.

What does it take for there NOT to be a "Good service on most of our network"?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 12, 2020, 10:07:42
The GWR website is asserting that there is that there is a "Good service on most of our network", despite the fact that there are currently 43 trains cancelled for all or part of their journey.

An educated guess ... GWR is scheduled to run 1600 trains per day.  43 are cancelled / part running.   That's just 1 in 37 effected - in other words, 36 trains out of 37 are running as timetabled which (with the proviso that you need to consider the timetable to be "good") has to be considered a good service for over 97% of trains today.  From a passenger viewpoint, with people making return not single journeys and often needing to connect along the way, you're perhaps at the low 90% level, and for some passengers there may be degradation because of crowds (?) from a cancelled train making the following one less than socially distanced comfortable.

Operationally good service  - 97% (even with all today's issues)
Customer good service - 90%

We do tend to report exceptions here ... and I note 4 out of 16 trains cancelled at Melksham today - operationally 75% rather than the overall 97%.   From a passenger viewpoint, someone has made the best of a bad job (thank you) - running the busiest afternoon round trip between the cancelled trains, and also is providing buses rather than leave 2 hour gaps - so the "customer good service" is realistically (guestimate) around 50% rather than having most people's days messed up at some point.

Quote
What does it take for there NOT to be a "Good service on most of our network"?

Boxing Day??



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 12, 2020, 10:34:38
"Good" in this context, is, of course, entirely subjective.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Gordon the Blue Engine on December 12, 2020, 10:44:06
Yes, the overall statistics may indeed be as you say, but (if I've done my sums right) 5 out of 12 trains from Paddington to Bristol are cancelled in the middle part of to-day, so less than 60% of the published service is running.   The fact that this is masked by near 100% of trains running in the Thames Valley etc is of no consolation if you're trying to get to Bristol.

Boxing Day? As GWR plan to run no trains that day there will be no cancellations so there will be a very good service - 100% no less.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 12, 2020, 10:48:28


Yes, the overall statistics may indeed be as you say, but (if I?ve done my sums right) 5 out of 12 trains from Paddington to Bristol are cancelled in the middle part of to-day, so less than 60% of the published service is running.   


Exactly this - what was that old saying about statistics?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 12, 2020, 15:04:11
A large number of train crew at certain depots have either tested positive for Covid or are awaiting test results. This is affecting both drivers, train managers and maintenance staff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2020, 15:57:29
Journeycheck now confirming the cancellations on two routes by way of offering more infomation:

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads:
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 23:30 12/12.

Customer Advice
You are advised to check your journey before travel, direct train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads have been reduced to an hourly train service.

If you are travelling between London Paddington, Reading, Swindon and Bristol Temple Meads, you can use your ticket for travel between Swindon and Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway as this journey may be quicker than waiting for the next available train service.

Quote
Cancellations to services between Westbury and Swindon

Due to a shortage of train crew between Westbury and Swindon fewer trains are able to run on the line.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Due to a shortage of train drivers, fewer services will be able to operate between Swindon and Westbury via Melksham in both directions.

Passengers from Westbury wishing to travel to Trowbridge may use alternative services towards Bath Spa, passengers wishing to travel to Chippenham and Swindon should also travel to Bath Spa and change there for services to Swindon.
Passengers for Melksham, please contact the Westbury station team and a taxi will be arranged.

Passengers from Swindon wishing to travel to Chippenham may use alternative services towards Bath Spa, passengers wishing to travel to Trowbridge and Westbury should also travel to Bath Spa and change there for services to Westbury.
Passengers for Melksham, please contact the Swindon station team and a taxi will be arranged.

A rail replacement taxi has been arranged to convey passengers from Melksham station to Swindon via Chippenham if required, and also from Melksham station to Westbury via Trowbridge if required.
Passengers are requested to go to the rail replacement bus stop at Melksham station.


An additional train service has been planned to operate departing Westbury at 19:15 and calling at Trowbridge at 19:21, Melksham at 19:31, Chippenham at 19:45 and arriving Swindon at 20:04.

Journey times will be extended. We apologise for the inconvenience.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2020, 16:16:35
Pleased to see London-Southwest fast services are calling additionally at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary to cover for the cancelled semi fast services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 12, 2020, 17:20:24
Pleased to see London-Southwest fast services are calling additionally at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary to cover for the cancelled semi fast services.

It makes huge sense ...

There has been too much forced practise in timetable changes and making ends meet with reduced crews ... but that does have something of a sliver lining in that they're getting very much more used to making the best of a bad job.   

I can have a lot more sympathy with current time shortages, which realistically have been outside the control of the industry and have come from left field, than with the rail industry's own goals when this thread started.  And decisions like these extra stops are welcome - working for passengers rather than (one has felt in the past) working to ensure on-time arrival of trains to minimise late running financial penalties.

A contingency of alternate London to Bristol trains, making it hourly and stating it as such also makes sense too - far better than ad-hoc and patchy changes.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2020, 07:58:12
GWR website states "There is a good service across our network"

Today's cancellations, all due to crew shortage;

08:34 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 11:08
09:56 Plymouth to Penzance due 11:51
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 14:11
12:33 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 15:00
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 16:13
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 16:29
14:33 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 17:01
15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:11
15:10 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:29
15:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:07
16:33 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:02
17:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 20:07
17:46 Plymouth to London Paddington due 21:07
18:33 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:03
19:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 22:44

Foreshortened (in most cases dramatically)

09:47 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 12:56
11:30 London Paddington to Paignton due 14:58
13:41 Swindon to Dorchester West due 15:40
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:09
14:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:29
15:13 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:29
15:59 Paignton to London Paddington due 19:44
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:08
16:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 21:29
16:23 Dorchester West to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:26
16:30 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:22
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:09
17:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:37
19:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
20:14 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 22:47
20:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 00:12
20:48 Bristol Temple Meads to Dorchester West due 22:58
21:25 Cardiff Central to Westbury due 23:13
22:15 Cardiff Central to Warminster due 00:05

Good luck to anyone feeling brave enough to risk it today -


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 13, 2020, 08:15:26
Good luck to anyone feeling brave enough to risk it today -

Would they (GWR) would do FAR better to say "We are short staffed as many members of our operational team are isolating or awaiting test results.  Services from London to Plymouth will run every 2 hours, and make calls at stations usually served by both express and semi-fast trains.   For details ...."?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 13, 2020, 08:34:44
With the new timetable starting today, which features a later start and reduced hourly service between Bristol-London, I suspect without these two factors we?d have seen a reduced service on this line too.

On the WoE line, once again pleased to see fast services calling at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary to cover for the cancelled semi fasts, something we didn?t see this time last year and I personally experienced on this very weekend a year ago.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on December 13, 2020, 08:46:56
GWR website states "There is a good service across our network"

Perhaps they should break it down journey by journey in the same way that TfL do for the Tube. And put it on the home page!
SWR already do this although at present each route is showing "Special Timetable"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2020, 09:00:59
GWR website states "There is a good service across our network"

Perhaps they should break it down journey by journey in the same way that TfL do for the Tube. And put it on the home page!
SWR already do this although at present each route is showing "Special Timetable"

Excellent idea.

This has been added in the last few minutes so it appears that someone is awake, but still no mention of the mass cancellations/alterations which this makes worse of course;

Cancellations to services between Westbury and Castle Cary
Due to engineering works not being finished on time between Westbury and Castle Cary all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until 11:00 13/12.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on December 13, 2020, 10:27:42
A ecs move from Castle Cary to Westbury was cancelled and it seems the stock will be used to run the 2O71 Westbury Weymouth from Castle Cary. It appears in Tracksy on platform 2.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 13, 2020, 10:32:24
Will run as far as Dorchester West only because of engineering work further south.  (If it ever gets going)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 13, 2020, 11:19:03
Perhaps they should break it down journey by journey in the same way that TfL do for the Tube. And put it on the home page!
SWR already do this although at present each route is showing "Special Timetable"

Yes, that should be quite easily done as internal staff systems have now started doing that (see the attached images).  You do not want to provide too much on the homepage but perhaps a three stage message level of:

"GWR is operating a good service on all routes"
"GWR is operating a good service on most routes but there is disruption on selected routes.  Click here for more details."
"There is widespread disruption on GWR services. Click here for more details?"

When you click for more details it takes you to the layout in the attached images.  That could then link to individual alterations if you click on a yellow or red banner.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2020, 16:06:44
Somewhat belatedly;


Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Plymouth
Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Plymouth fewer trains are able to run on all lines.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
You are advised to check your journey before travel, if travelling between London Paddington, Newbury, Pewsey, Wetsbury, Castle Cary, Exeter St Davids and Plymouth.

If your service has been cancelled, you can use your ticket for travel on an earlier train service between London Paddington and Plymouth. Additional stops will be put on train services, for Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary where the previous cancelled train would have called at these stations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: fintan_stack on December 13, 2020, 18:23:21
Looked in here to see what people knew about the current service cancellations.

I went up towards London last evening, my train was cancelled so I get half my single ticket price back for a half hour delay, came back today on time but I noted lots of cancellations on the journey checker.

Had a chat to the guard (no weekend first class upgrades were being collected so a slightly better seat was had gratis) and he said there was still a lot of annual leave needing to be taken by the end of the year, only a day can be carried forward to next year. so that was partly behind yesterdays cancellations. It seems some managers were begging drivers in particular to cancel leave in the autumn of this year and now they are running out of time to take it.

On the guards side, he said earlier in the pandemic leave had to be taken even if it meant sitting at home on lockdown, it couldn't be swapped to free weeks later in the year and that that hadn't gone down too well with some staff.

Seems that there are some covid cases and some people isolating but not a huge number but it's felt the company will use covid as an excuse for everything now. Very few of the trolley people are back yet and there's a worry for their jobs when the government get the pandemic and brexit closed off.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2020, 06:29:20
Same story today - website says "There is a good service across our network"  ::)

Cancelled

05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:59
07:04 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:17
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington due 10:29
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:04
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:49
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
10:54 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:07
12:34 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 14:59
13:36 Liskeard to Looe due 14:05
13:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
14:08 Looe to Liskeard due 14:33
14:12 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:09
15:38 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
16:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:11
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot due 21:52



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 14, 2020, 10:02:24
Apparently there are 10 drivers at Plymouth depot who have tested positive along with another 37 staff who are having to self isolate after being in contact with them.

Until further notice the Paddington to Paignton and Paddington to Exeter semi fast services are being withdrawn with remaining services making extra stops on the Berks & Hants.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on December 14, 2020, 10:18:14
Apparently there are 10 drivers at Plymouth depot who have tested positive along with another 37 staff who are having to self isolate after being in contact with them.

Until further notice the Paddington to Paignton and Paddington to Exeter semi fast services are being withdrawn with remaining services making extra stops on the Berks & Hants.


And another 15 at Exeter who have either tested positive or are self-isolating.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: REVUpminster on December 14, 2020, 12:04:23
That 1736 Paddington - Paignton acts as the local service Exeter-Paignton-Newton Abbot before running empty to Laira. They usual run a 150 in its place when cancelled.

It's about the only time St Thomas and Starcross get a 9 car 802.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 14, 2020, 12:10:51
From today - staff shortages etc permitting - more Paddington to Penzance services will be formed of 9 cars rather than 2x5.   This will avoid the need to split units at Plymouth which has been an extra drain on resources with staff needed to bring sets off Laira depot or take them back.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 14, 2020, 17:22:39
Apparently there are 10 drivers at Plymouth depot who have tested positive along with another 37 staff who are having to self isolate after being in contact with them.

Until further notice the Paddington to Paignton and Paddington to Exeter semi fast services are being withdrawn with remaining services making extra stops on the Berks & Hants.


And another 15 at Exeter who have either tested positive or are self-isolating.

If that's the case, then there could well be serious problems up until Christmas - this problem only seemed to start on Saturday which suggests recent diagnoses, so these guys are probably going to be out of commission for 2 weeks, and that's before Christmas leave is factored in - I would be interested in GWRs contingency plans - and above all their communication strategy  for the next couple of weeks given these circumstances...............or is it cross fingers and hope for the best?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 14, 2020, 18:01:03

If that's the case, then there could well be serious problems up until Christmas - this problem only seemed to start on Saturday which suggests recent diagnoses, so these guys are probably going to be out of commission for 2 weeks, and that's before Christmas leave is factored in - I would be interested in GWRs contingency plans - and above all their communication strategy  for the next couple of weeks given these circumstances...............or is it cross fingers and hope for the best?


There are no more traincrew off over Christmas than there is at any other time of the year.  Driver wise at Plymouth, based on the size of the depot, the company will only guarantee leave for 10 to 12 drivers every day. Christmas leave was drawn and agreed several months ago.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 14, 2020, 18:03:20
Any idea how many work at Plymouth - ie how big a percentage is 47?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 14, 2020, 18:22:27
Any idea how many work at Plymouth - ie how big a percentage is 47?

There?s about 75 drivers in total.  Not sure how many TMs or other staff though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 14, 2020, 22:13:04
Apparently there are 10 drivers at Plymouth depot who have tested positive along with another 37 staff who are having to self isolate after being in contact with them.

Until further notice the Paddington to Paignton and Paddington to Exeter semi fast services are being withdrawn with remaining services making extra stops on the Berks & Hants.
RTT showing all semi fasts cancelled tomorrow and Wednesday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 15, 2020, 04:46:13
Today's crew shortage cancellations so far.....Journeycheck now suggesting that this will continue until Close of play on the 18th....

05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:59
06:13 Reading to Newbury due 06:42
06:52 Newbury to London Paddington due 07:55
07:04 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:17
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington due 10:29
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:04
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:49
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
10:54 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:07
12:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 13:14
12:34 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 14:59
12:48 St Erth to St Ives due 12:58
13:03 St Ives to St Erth due 13:15
13:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 14:13
13:19 St Erth to St Ives due 13:29
13:33 St Ives to St Erth due 13:44
13:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
13:41 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 14:50
13:48 St Erth to St Ives due 13:58
14:03 St Ives to St Erth due 14:14
14:12 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:09
14:18 St Erth to St Ives due 14:29
14:20 Reading to Redhill due 15:52
14:33 St Ives to St Erth due 14:44
14:41 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 15:52
15:38 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
15:58 Redhill to Reading due 17:44
16:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:11
17:34 London Paddington to Hereford due 20:25
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
17:50 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 19:20
18:07 London Paddington to Frome due 20:07
18:26 London Paddington to Reading due 19:14
18:34 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 20:47
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
19:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 20:25
19:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 20:53
20:08 London Paddington to Bedwyn due 21:11
20:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 21:51
21:33 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 23:32
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot due 21:52
21:42 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 22:44
22:40 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 00:29
00:45 Oxford to Reading due 01:28


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 15, 2020, 06:59:10
Today's crew shortage cancellations so far.....Journeycheck now suggesting that this will continue until Close of play on the 18th....
I?d go as far as to say the weekend as well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 15, 2020, 21:39:59
Latest is up to Christmas for cancellation of semi fast services on weekdays:

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Plymouth

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Plymouth fewer trains are able to run on all lines.

Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 24/12/20.

Customer Advice
You are advised to check your journey before travel, if travelling between London Paddington, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Exeter St Davids and Plymouth.

If your service has been cancelled, you can use your ticket for travel on an earlier or later train between London Paddington and Plymouth. Additional stops will be put on train services, for Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary where the previous cancelled train would have called at these stations.

If you choose not to travel because your train has been cancelled, you are entitled to a refund. Visit our website for more information. Gwr.com/help-and-support/refunds-and-compensation/unused-ticket-refunds

CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and Bristol Temple Meads in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys. Please note that reservations are mandatory on all CrossCountry services. Reservations can be made at the ticket office, by tweeting @CrossCountryUK or by using CrossCountry's ten minute reservation SMS service...follow the link for more detailshttps://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/tickets/ten-minute-reservations

South Western Railway are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and Basingstoke in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Additional Information
The following weekday services will be cancelled until Thursday 24th December:

From London Paddington:

07:04 London Paddington to Paignton
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
12:34 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
16:37 London Paddington to Plymouth
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth

From Plymouth/Paignton/Exeter St Davids:

05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:54 Paignton to London Paddington
13:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
14:12 Paignton to London Paddington
15:38 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 16, 2020, 07:08:43
......added to those today;

05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:59
06:12 Frome to London Paddington due 08:01
06:34 Looe to Liskeard due 07:01
06:55 Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads due 07:13
07:04 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:17
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington due 10:29
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 10:09
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:04
08:49 St Erth to St Ives due 09:00
09:11 St Ives to St Erth due 09:24
09:36 Liskeard to Looe due 10:05
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:49
09:38 St Erth to St Ives due 09:48
10:03 St Ives to St Erth due 10:14
10:08 Looe to Liskeard due 10:34
10:18 St Erth to St Ives due 10:29
10:33 St Ives to St Erth due 10:44
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
10:48 St Erth to St Ives due 10:58
10:54 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:07
11:03 St Ives to St Erth due 11:15
12:34 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 14:59
13:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
14:12 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:09
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:07
15:38 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
16:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:11
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 19:39
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
19:39 Exeter St Davids to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:46
20:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:37
20:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 22:34
21:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:42
21:22 Swansea to Bristol Parkway due 23:04
21:33 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 23:32
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot due 21:52


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 16, 2020, 07:18:45
......added to those today;

Not quite ... your list includes the 15 cancellations in the previous post rather than being in addition to them.  Still a long way from clever, but not quite as bad as "added" suggests.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on December 16, 2020, 17:17:12
Sir Peter Hendy on questioning by the Transport Select Committee indicated that only about 25% of train crew at Plymouth are expected to be available as a result of Covid or isolation nearer to Christmas and it would seem that GWR have closed their booking fir that period and indicating people to book on National Express.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/b5b5fb95-311a-4ce3-ae9d-59ccfe4b5060
From about 19:41:00 to 10:46:00


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 17, 2020, 05:34:50
The present pandemic is clearly an exceptional situation, and therefore one should not be unduly critical of GWR for failing to run the advertised service.
Before "letting them of the hook" entirely, we should remember that they failed pretty miserably to engage sufficient staff to run a full service, long before the pandemic.

I presume that during this pandemic, that the normal "attrition rate" of resignations and retirements continues, and that after the pandemic that the staffing situation will be worse than before.

I can see two means by which the present situation could be slightly improved.
Firstly permit drivers and train managers to postponne or carry forward annual leave as desired, rather than forcing them to take leave by the normaly required date and making a bad situation worse.

Secondly, invite drivers and train managers due for retirement to stay on slightly past retirement age, subject to being medically fit. Todays railway is not a place for the seriously old, but many fit and about to retire workers could stay for another year, or two, perhaps part time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 17, 2020, 06:51:10
Worth noting that although ticket acceptance is in place with SWR to use their services between Basingstoke and Exeter, their services are reported to be disrupted today due to staff absence. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 17, 2020, 07:11:22
Sir Peter Hendy on questioning by the Transport Select Committee indicated that only about 25% of train crew at Plymouth are expected to be available as a result of Covid or isolation nearer to Christmas and it would seem that GWR have closed their booking fir that period and indicating people to book on National Express.

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/b5b5fb95-311a-4ce3-ae9d-59ccfe4b5060
From about 19:41:00 to 10:46:00

I'm not aware of any other organisation of any scale anywhere in the UK that has lost 75% of its staff due to Covid infection or isolation - worth remembering as well that this is geographically one of the lowest affected areas of the UK and that train drivers spend most of their day alone in a sealed cab which is regularly cleaned/disinfected.

You might expect these sort of rates amongst (for example) supermarket staff, teachers, NHS workers but thankfully that hasn't happened.

Has there been a failure of social distancing or perhaps some sort of staff gathering where this exposure could have taken place?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 17, 2020, 08:46:36

I'm not aware of any other organisation of any scale anywhere in the UK that has lost 75% of its staff due to Covid infection or isolation - worth remembering as well that this is geographically one of the lowest affected areas of the UK and that train drivers spend most of their day alone in a sealed cab which is regularly cleaned/disinfected.

You might expect these sort of rates amongst (for example) supermarket staff, teachers, NHS workers but thankfully that hasn't happened.

Has there been a failure of social distancing or perhaps some sort of staff gathering where this exposure could have taken place?

Train drivers share messroom facilities with customer hosts and train managers.... roles which are customer facing.  Some train drivers also have children and spouses which may work in high risk environments, it only takes one person to unknowingly bring the virus in.
To suggest a staff gathering is quite frankly ridiculous.  To do you really think they?d put the safety of their own families at risk?

Train drivers don?t spend most on their day in a sealed environment and whilst they may be based in the lowest risk area, they do travel to higher risk areas. 

They haven?t lost 75% of their staff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 17, 2020, 08:49:11

I can see two means by which the present situation could be slightly improved.
Firstly permit drivers and train managers to postponne or carry forward annual leave as desired, rather than forcing them to take leave by the normaly required date and making a bad situation worse.

This causes an issue where next year, you?ll have more drivers unable to use their leave.  The company only guarantees a certain amount off on any given day.

Quote
Secondly, invite drivers and train managers due for retirement to stay on slightly past retirement age, subject to being medically fit. Todays railway is not a place for the seriously old, but many fit and about to retire workers could stay for another year, or two, perhaps part time.

Been done.  I am aware of several who have delayed retirement until the middle of next year


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on December 17, 2020, 10:11:24
I'm not aware of any other organisation of any scale anywhere in the UK that has lost 75% of its staff due to Covid infection or isolation - worth remembering as well that this is geographically one of the lowest affected areas of the UK and that train drivers spend most of their day alone in a sealed cab which is regularly cleaned/disinfected.

You might expect these sort of rates amongst (for example) supermarket staff, teachers, NHS workers but thankfully that hasn't happened.

Has there been a failure of social distancing or perhaps some sort of staff gathering where this exposure could have taken place?

It is 75% of one depot, not 75% of the entire organisation. With the best will in the world, it is impossible to fully mitigate against such a local event happening as staff do have lives outside of work that will see them interact with others such as partners and children. The important thing to do is to take sufficient action to prevent it spreading to other locations. Those that follow rugby union may be aware that the professional clubs are following strict protocols such as social distancing, regular testing and player 'bubbles'. This hasn't prevented an outbreak at Exeter Chiefs (in my opinion an extremely professional and well run club) and has seen them have to forfeit their next match owing to the squad self-isolating. Their opponents from last week, Glasgow Warriors, have had to do likewise after being in contact with them. It shows it is not as easy as saying there are measures in place so it won't happen.

Back to railways, I know that Bristol had a lot of staff unavailable for similar reasons earlier this year, however the effects were less noticeable because of the reduced timetable in operation at the time. Large 'urban' depots such as Paddington, Bristol and Plymouth will be more susceptible than smaller 'rural' depots such as Par and Westbury because of the surrounding environs where the staff live and interact with the outside world. It is also unsurprising that these outbreaks have coincided with the colder weather and reduced daylight where staff are more likely to be inside for longer periods than outside. In the summer, there were plenty of staff who would take their break outside in the fresh air. Understandably, this is less appealing at this time of year.

I am of the opinion that reinstating more trains at the recent timetable change wasn't the best move at this time of year and has exacerbated the problem as I am sure that there will be further localised outbreaks at depots this winter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 17, 2020, 12:12:07

It is 75% of one depot, not 75% of the entire organisation.


It is certainly not 75% of one depot!  That would equate to hundreds and would almost certainly see Public Health England launching an investigation!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 17, 2020, 13:07:27

I can see two means by which the present situation could be slightly improved.
Firstly permit drivers and train managers to postponne or carry forward annual leave as desired, rather than forcing them to take leave by the normaly required date and making a bad situation worse.

This causes an issue where next year, you?ll have more drivers unable to use their leave.  The company only guarantees a certain amount off on any given day.

Quote
Secondly, invite drivers and train managers due for retirement to stay on slightly past retirement age, subject to being medically fit. Todays railway is not a place for the seriously old, but many fit and about to retire workers could stay for another year, or two, perhaps part time.

Been done.  I am aware of several who have delayed retirement until the middle of next year

Glad to hear that commonsense has prevailed and that some drivers have been able to delay retirement.

As regards annual holidays, I would hope that delays or postponnement would be allowed, WITHOUT ANY LOSS OR REDUCTION in the total holiday entitlement.
I appreciate that this does delay the problem, but hopefully some extra staff will have been engaged and trained by the time these holidays are eventually taken.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RA on December 17, 2020, 16:04:01

It is 75% of one depot, not 75% of the entire organisation.


It is certainly not 75% of one depot!  That would equate to hundreds and would almost certainly see Public Health England launching an investigation!

The 75% number was based on the Sir Peter Hendy response yesterday for predicted availability at the depot next week, although I am not sure whether that was just the drivers or all grades. He would appear to be way off then? If so that'll teach me to check his figures before posting. However, that is inclusive of those self-isolating as a precautionary measure. It is probable (although not definite) that a large percentage of the precautionary self-isolating staff will not have caught the virus and therefore would most certainly not see Public Health England launch an investigation. However, if a large proportion of those do subsequently test positive, then you may well be right.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 17, 2020, 18:49:25
From GWR:

Quote
You may be aware that we have been operating a reduced timetable on our Devon and Cornwall services this week.  This is as a result of a number of positive Covid cases, and around 50 other members of staff having to self-isolate under Track and Trace requirements.
 
This has impacted driver availability and we will be operating a reduced timetable on our West of England services through to Devon and Cornwall until at least Sunday 27 December. Details of the long distance service changes through to the 24 December are on our website https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/live-network-updates.
 
We are working with Network Rail to remove these trains from journey planners as quickly as possible so that customers can see the amended timetable.  Where we have contact details, we will be in touch with customers offering advice on moving their booking to alternative services, or if they prefer, offering a full refund.  Everyone who has booked to travel will be able to do so, though it might mean moving to a different service.
 
We are also monitoring ticket sales on our reservable services and where trains have reached or are close to social distancing capacity, we are no longer taking bookings for those services. 
 
Other train operators continue to provide services, although these are expected to be busy, and customers can also choose to switch to travel by coach. National Express, Megabus and Snap are all putting on extra services during the Christmas travel window.
 
We know how important it is that we get this right and we are doing all we can to reduce inconvenience and to support our customers.  We do however face a significant challenge with so many key staff unable to report for work.
 
Government travel advice remains to only use public transport if necessary having looked at all other options. This will help us support those who have no other option to travel by train to be able to do so. If you are able to help us to spread the message about checking journeys before travelling at gwr.com/check we will be very grateful.
 
I know you will join with me in wishing our crew a speedy recovery and you have my assurance that we are doing all we can to make sure customers are able to complete their journeys.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on December 17, 2020, 19:23:32

I presume that during this pandemic, that the normal "attrition rate" of resignations and retirements continues, and that after the pandemic that the staffing situation will be worse than before.

Retirements are continuing, although this Engineer has deferred his retirement for a year or so

.
Secondly, invite drivers and train managers due for retirement to stay on slightly past retirement age, subject to being medically fit. Todays railway is not a place for the seriously old, but many fit and about to retire workers could stay for another year, or two, perhaps part time.

There is no set retirement age now, so all a member of staff has to do once they are over their pension scheme ag is give notice of resignation and inform the Railway Pension Scheme, a manager can ask someone to reconsider but cannot refuse


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: onthecushions on December 17, 2020, 21:12:35

Retirements are continuing, although this Engineer has deferred his retirement for a year or so


The railway will soldier on for a few more years - audible sighs of relief all round!

Greetings

OTC


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sleepy on December 17, 2020, 23:18:47
Somewhat surprised you can still book berths to Cornwall on 23rd Sleeper at this late stage ! Presume Christmas holidays in Cornwall or visits to Granny in Penzance are greatly reduced this year ?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2020, 07:16:06
Today's crew shortage cancellation list.............

05:40 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 08:51
05:49 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:59
05:55 Reading to Redhill due 07:24
06:46 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 08:22
07:04 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:17
07:06 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 07:32
07:06 Reading to Redhill due 08:37
07:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 09:08
07:13 Paignton to London Paddington due 10:29
07:32 Redhill to Reading due 09:04
07:42 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 08:10
07:42 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 08:06
08:15 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 08:43
08:32 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 09:54
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:04
08:45 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 09:09
08:51 Redhill to Reading due 10:45
09:15 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 09:42
09:25 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 12:40
09:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 11:30
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:49
09:51 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 11:41
10:10 Par to Newquay due 11:02
10:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 11:13
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 12:59
10:54 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:07
11:12 Newquay to Par due 12:01
11:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 13:17
11:20 Reading to Redhill due 12:52
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:31
11:36 Liskeard to Looe due 12:05
11:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 13:50
11:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:59
12:01 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 13:25
12:02 Oxford to London Paddington due 12:54
12:08 Looe to Liskeard due 12:33
12:15 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 12:39
12:34 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 14:59
12:36 Liskeard to Looe due 13:04
12:45 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 13:13
13:00 Redhill to Reading due 14:33
13:06 Looe to Liskeard due 13:34
13:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:09
13:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 15:17
13:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 14:13
13:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 14:51
13:36 Liskeard to Looe due 14:05
13:36 Reading to Redhill due 14:47
13:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:14
13:53 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 15:41
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:08 Looe to Liskeard due 14:33
14:12 Paignton to London Paddington due 17:09
14:36 Liskeard to Looe due 15:04
14:48 St Erth to St Ives due 14:58
15:02 St Ives to St Erth due 15:14
15:06 Looe to Liskeard due 15:37
15:08 Redhill to Reading due 16:19
15:18 St Erth to St Ives due 15:29
15:33 St Ives to St Erth due 15:44
15:35 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:40
15:38 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:09
15:40 Liskeard to Looe due 16:13
15:48 St Erth to St Ives due 15:58
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:43
16:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:35
16:03 St Ives to St Erth due 16:16
16:16 Looe to Liskeard due 16:42
16:25 Westbury to Swindon due 17:08
16:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:11
16:44 Liskeard to Looe due 17:12
17:00 Plymouth to Liskeard due 17:35
17:14 Looe to Liskeard due 17:42
17:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 21:16
17:36 Swindon to Westbury due 18:17
17:46 Liskeard to Looe due 18:15
18:17 Looe to Liskeard due 18:43
18:23 Par to Newquay due 19:15
18:37 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:12
18:39 Westbury to Swindon due 19:21
18:49 Liskeard to Looe due 19:17
19:19 Looe to Liskeard due 19:47
19:20 Reading to Redhill due 21:01
19:22 Newquay to Par due 20:11
19:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:08
19:49 Liskeard to Looe due 20:18
20:29 Par to Newquay due 21:21
20:29 Looe to Liskeard due 20:55
20:45 Swindon to Westbury due 21:26
21:26 Newquay to Par due 22:15
21:36 Paignton to Newton Abbot due 21:52


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on December 18, 2020, 07:32:01

I can see two means by which the present situation could be slightly improved.
Firstly permit drivers and train managers to postponne or carry forward annual leave as desired, rather than forcing them to take leave by the normaly required date and making a bad situation worse.

This causes an issue where next year, you?ll have more drivers unable to use their leave.  The company only guarantees a certain amount off on any given day.

Been done.  I am aware of several who have delayed retirement until the middle of next year

NR have a similar problem with many front line staff who have not used this years full quota of leave, only a certain amount can be carried over to 2021 and only 5 days can be sold back to the company.

Everyone is conscious of the fact that once restrictions on travel lift, possibly next summer,  these frontline staff will want to take time off and use their stored leave


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2020, 15:42:02

I can see two means by which the present situation could be slightly improved.
Firstly permit drivers and train managers to postponne or carry forward annual leave as desired, rather than forcing them to take leave by the normaly required date and making a bad situation worse.

This causes an issue where next year, you?ll have more drivers unable to use their leave.  The company only guarantees a certain amount off on any given day.

Been done.  I am aware of several who have delayed retirement until the middle of next year

NR have a similar problem with many front line staff who have not used this years full quota of leave, only a certain amount can be carried over to 2021 and only 5 days can be sold back to the company.

Everyone is conscious of the fact that once restrictions on travel lift, possibly next summer,  these frontline staff will want to take time off and use their stored leave

Have NR/GWR staff been prevented or discouraged from taking their annual leave this year?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 18, 2020, 20:33:59

Have NR/GWR staff been prevented or discouraged from taking their annual leave this year?


The majority of GWR leave is rostered, the 2021 leave roster would have been posted several months ago, so it's all done well in advance.  You don't get rostered Christmas off that often, once in every 4 years, if that, so you aren't going to give up that up! 

Ad-hoc leave, the odd days you have left over (roughly about 7 days??).  For the size of Plymouth depot, the company will only guarantee a maximum of probably 4 drivers ad-hoc leave per day so in reality, you aren't going to gain much from trying to discourage crew taking leave.

Interestingly, GWR are trying other "methods" to obtain drivers https://www.tssa.org.uk/en/whats-new/news/index.cfm/gwr-tssa-covid-concerns


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2020, 20:47:24

Have NR/GWR staff been prevented or discouraged from taking their annual leave this year?


The majority of GWR leave is rostered, the 2021 leave roster would have been posted several months ago, so it's all done well in advance.  You don't get rostered Christmas off that often, once in every 4 years, if that, so you aren't going to give up that up! 

Ad-hoc leave, the odd days you have left over (roughly about 7 days??).  For the size of Plymouth depot, the company will only guarantee a maximum of probably 4 drivers ad-hoc leave per day so in reality, you aren't going to gain much from trying to discourage crew taking leave.

Interestingly, GWR are trying other "methods" to obtain drivers https://www.tssa.org.uk/en/whats-new/news/index.cfm/gwr-tssa-covid-concerns

Thanks, but it was more about Electric Trains point re: staff having a lot of leave stored up, but if as you say it's all planned so far in advance, most of 2020s will have been planned well in advance & used, and 2021s will have been posted so it shouldn't be an issue?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 18, 2020, 20:52:05

Thanks, but it was more about Electric Trains point re: staff having a lot of leave stored up, but if as you say it's all planned so far in advance, most of 2020s will have been planned well in advance & used, and 2021s will have been posted so it shouldn't be an issue?

The only days GWR drivers will have is their ad-hoc days stored... maximum 4 guaranteed off per day, 5 days can be carried over into 2021.  NR could obviously be different.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2020, 08:07:54
Over 100 listed including those pre-notified.

Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Plymouth
Cancellations to services between Reading and Gatwick Airport
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Cardiff Central

I do wonder how a safe environment on those trains which are still running is being assured.

Has the Tsar issued any guidance publicly for those still planning to travel on GWR and elsewhere?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on December 19, 2020, 08:22:45

Have NR/GWR staff been prevented or discouraged from taking their annual leave this year?


The majority of GWR leave is rostered, the 2021 leave roster would have been posted several months ago, so it's all done well in advance.  You don't get rostered Christmas off that often, once in every 4 years, if that, so you aren't going to give up that up! 

Ad-hoc leave, the odd days you have left over (roughly about 7 days??).  For the size of Plymouth depot, the company will only guarantee a maximum of probably 4 drivers ad-hoc leave per day so in reality, you aren't going to gain much from trying to discourage crew taking leave.

Interestingly, GWR are trying other "methods" to obtain drivers https://www.tssa.org.uk/en/whats-new/news/index.cfm/gwr-tssa-covid-concerns

Thanks, but it was more about Electric Trains point re: staff having a lot of leave stored up, but if as you say it's all planned so far in advance, most of 2020s will have been planned well in advance & used, and 2021s will have been posted so it shouldn't be an issue?

The Frontline NR staff are professional and dedicated to what they do, and they understand the need to plan leave, the senior managers and directors also respect that staff need to have a holiday for well being reasons and for safety reasons.

You have to remember the frontline staff have not had the opportunity to work from home, they have had to cover at short notice when colleges have had to self isolate, been sick.

My experience of the frontline teams is they are still highly motivated to maintain an operational railway


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on December 19, 2020, 08:31:10
Over 100 listed including those pre-notified.

Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Plymouth
Cancellations to services between Reading and Gatwick Airport
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Cardiff Central

I do wonder how a safe environment on those trains which are still running is being assured.

Has the Tsar issued any guidance publicly for those still planning to travel on GWR and elsewhere?

On the plus side at least some Cheltenham - Paddington trains have been replaced with a shuttle between Cheltenham and Swindon.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2020, 10:53:37
My experience of the frontline teams is they are still highly motivated to maintain an operational railway

My experience too ... and from a different personal background.  Quoted separately as a "soundbite" to highlight it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2020, 11:28:48
Here's "what it looks like" this morning ... not sure if this is really best understandable.   

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/_DAAJAAACAA20201219.jpg)

Such diagrams work well in the case of a low number of trains with issues but the message gets less clear as numbers rise.   Looking through the list on JourneyCheck, I find it equally obtuse / difficult to find what is actually expected to run.   With automated systems, I really wonder if timetable generation software can't be linked in, so that a it's easy to pull up a timetable of what's actually running / expected to run for the (rest of) the day.

Not really what I'm shouting for ... but the MRUG "onward journey" pages can help - here for Bristol Parkway
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bpw_onward_20201219.jpg)
and on there I can select my final/next destination to see services to there
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bpw_onward_npt_20201219.jpg)

Control case - here is the CURRENT services shown on the same diagram - as I write, almost the same as the image above - but it will change over time (less scribbling all over it, we hope)

(http://new.passenger.chat/map/_DAAJAAACAA.jpg)


Links to(wards) the current versions of diagrams above:

Map: http://new.passenger.chat/map/_DAAJAAACAA.jpg
Map explorer: http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html
Onward trains: http://www.mrug.org.uk/bpw.html
Information pages including links to multiple status sources: http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html?stn=BPW

Edit to add - I have taken advantage of all the cancellations and updated the reports to make them a little clearer at such times.   Now greying out and striking through cancelled trains, and leaving out their calling patterns too.   Example:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bpw_onward_rdg_20201219.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2020, 13:12:49
GWR Twitter now saying that social distancing cannot be guaranteed on the services that are running due to volume of customers displaced from cancelled trains.

A friend is on the 1203 Paddington-Penzance which is apparently full and standing throughout. Extra stops not helping.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 19, 2020, 14:02:53
Double time being offered to those working on 27th December to perhaps coax a few more volunteers to work an additional shift.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 19, 2020, 14:05:22
Double time being offered to those working on 27th December to perhaps coax a few more volunteers to work an additional shift.

Hull Trains have been approached as well.  Wanting to see if they have any volunteer drivers to cover work out of Plymouth


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2020, 15:09:03
4pm Press Conference today may make it all academic.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 19, 2020, 15:27:58
The station master at Brimpsfield might reasonably state that the service has "all gone to pot"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on December 19, 2020, 17:08:37
Double time being offered to those working on 27th December to perhaps coax a few more volunteers to work an additional shift.

Hull Trains have been approached as well.  Wanting to see if they have any volunteer drivers to cover work out of Plymouth

And I believe that is absolote bullhooks of a rumour as how are these drivers going to learn the routes out of Plymouth in 5 days?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eXPassenger on December 19, 2020, 17:12:23
4pm Press Conference today may make it all academic.

I think it has.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2020, 17:41:53
Well ... officially (whatever that means!) this is a mess.  New tiers on current cancellation map ...

(http://new.passenger.chat/map/_DAAHAAAAAA.jpg)

And the map as it was at 17:55 on 19th December 2020

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/snap_20201219_1755.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 19, 2020, 17:56:44
I think it has.

Probably a few sighs of relief within the upper echelons of GWR.  Though I think there was a general level of understanding from most people, even Broadgage, that this was an exceptional situation to which GWR wasn?t really able to do much about.

I didn?t see any long distance trains looking especially busy today myself, though I didn?t catch sight of any of the WoE ones.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on December 19, 2020, 18:03:23
The reducing of the five days mixing to just Christmas Day will help the TOCs struggling with staffing on the 23rd, 24th and 27th - but it won't help those who rely on public transport and have no way to reach places on the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 19, 2020, 18:38:50

Hull Trains have been approached as well.  Wanting to see if they have any volunteer drivers to cover work out of Plymouth

Quote

And I believe that is absolote bullhooks of a rumour as how are these drivers going to learn the routes out of Plymouth in 5 days?

They wouldn?t need to.  The plan was for them to be route conducted by a driver manager.

Some West Country services today ran full & standing.  I wonder how many will be trying to escape London before Tier 4 restrictions are imposed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: BBM on December 19, 2020, 21:23:22
Some West Country services today ran full & standing.  I wonder how many will be trying to escape London before Tier 4 restrictions are imposed.

Scenes at St.Pancras tonight on EMR:
https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20 (https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2020, 21:41:15
Some West Country services today ran full & standing.  I wonder how many will be trying to escape London before Tier 4 restrictions are imposed.

Scenes at St.Pancras tonight on EMR:
https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20 (https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20)

From the photographer:

Quote
Every person on this train including myself has made what is probably a very silly and irresponsible decision to travel albeit within the law. But that's what people were always going to do to be together at Christmas.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2020, 22:39:25
Here's another account (and yes, I know it's the Daily Mail before the inevitable pile on starts! 🙂), but it seems  a pretty reasonable account of events at various London stations  this evening.




https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9071155/amp/Huge-queues-train-stations-desperate-Londoners-flee-capital-ahead-Tier-4.html?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2020, 00:00:26
Some West Country services today ran full & standing.  I wonder how many will be trying to escape London before Tier 4 restrictions are imposed.

Scenes at St.Pancras tonight on EMR:
https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20 (https://twitter.com/HarrietClugston/status/1340383304143540227?s=20)

Poor Harriet has come in for some harsh criticism on Twitter I see.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on December 20, 2020, 07:26:05
Only 7 cancelled so far today and two of them are the sleepers. Can't see it staying that way!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 20, 2020, 08:29:13
Only 7 cancelled so far today and two of them are the sleepers. Can't see it staying that way!

Given the limitations on long(er) distance travel, especially into or out of Tier 4 areas, it shouldn't make too much difference from here on in..........although I guess the question will arise again after Christmas for those who have already travelled, given that the new restrictions won't be reviewed until the 30th.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 20, 2020, 13:01:57
AFAIK, long distance travel by rail or otherwise, IS permitted in order to return home if one left ones home before the present restrictions. Also if one left home during the restrictions, but for some permitted essential purpose.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 20, 2020, 15:33:56

Poor Harriet has come in for some harsh criticism on Twitter I see.

Not by me, because I wouldn't want to add to her distress, but some of the comments seem to be reasonable and justified. The others who didn't tweet are, of course, in the same boat, but didn't mention it. A typical comment is along the lines of "You've self isolated for a week so you can go to see your mum, but now you're going to be packed nose to nose with lots of strangers, changing at Derby. Hopefully you won't infect your mum, Happy Christmas."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2020, 15:44:43
AFAIK, long distance travel by rail or otherwise, IS permitted in order to return home if one left ones home before the present restrictions. Also if one left home during the restrictions, but for some permitted essential purpose.

GWR should easily be able to cope with that level of custom.  Even if cancellations due to staff shortages are an issue until the end of the year.


Poor Harriet has come in for some harsh criticism on Twitter I see.

Not by me, because I wouldn't want to add to her distress, but some of the comments seem to be reasonable and justified. The others who didn't tweet are, of course, in the same boat, but didn't mention it. A typical comment is along the lines of "You've self isolated for a week so you can go to see your mum, but now you're going to be packed nose to nose with lots of strangers, changing at Derby. Hopefully you won't infect your mum, Happy Christmas."

I guess a few scrums on trains yesterday (though the Twitter clip uploaded by Harriet didn't seem to show anything too bad) is regrettable, but pails into insignificance in terms of people infecting each other had shops stayed open and the original Christmas window plans been retained.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 20, 2020, 15:55:18
The rush to leave London, rather reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAyjkaFYnzE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAyjkaFYnzE)

Cheerful video, recomended lockdown viewing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: patch38 on December 20, 2020, 16:18:13
Abby: "It may not give us 100% protection but at least it's better than nothing..."

Terry Nation was so unbelievably spot-on 45 years ago but let's hope he was wrong about the vaccine.  :-\

Slam door trains at Great Malvern - sorry, Brimpsfield - too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 25, 2020, 17:17:12
Credit where it's due - despite the coronavirus, not a single service cancelled, terminated/started short or shortformed today - well done GWR!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2021, 06:41:16
It's a summer Saturday, and exactly the  sort of leisure journey families may consider by train, so.....

Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Gunnislake

Due to a shortage of train crew between Plymouth and Gunnislake all lines are closed.
Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until 12:00 19/06.

A number of other services affected by crew shortage across the region too....including to Paignton. More opportunities missed, more people will go by car.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: REVUpminster on June 19, 2021, 11:13:55
The local service is ok from Paignton. The Paddington train was cancelled from laira when it was driver only to Paignton. Can't tell if no driver at laira or no crew to take it to Paddington from Paignton.

Have to see if it comes back to Paignton as 1C81 at 12.35


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 19, 2021, 11:27:45
Seems rail is not alone - perhaps buses don't usually advertise it so much?

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/stage.jpg)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: REVUpminster on June 19, 2021, 13:01:54
The local service is ok from Paignton. The Paddington train was cancelled from laira when it was driver only to Paignton. Can't tell if no driver at laira or no crew to take it to Paddington from Paignton.

Have to see if it comes back to Paignton as 1C81 at 12.35

It looks like 1C81 has run made up from 1A16 ex Bristol.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on June 19, 2021, 14:45:37
Covid causing concern in Cornwall now. Pre half term, the rate of cases was down in single figures per 100k, as of 14/6 it had risen to over 100 /100k where as the average for England is only at 70.

It'll be interesting in another week or so to see what impact the G7 circus has had. Over half the pubs in Falmouth were closed on Friday including some with outside space.

So all it takes is for a member of train staff to get "pinged" and that's them lost off the roster for a week or more. No business can plan for that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 20, 2021, 07:01:58
It's summertime, it's Sunday, and these are all cancelled due to crew shortage.

The railway faces huge challenges attracting customers in the post COVID world, this is the sort of thing which will drive them away.

09:50 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 10:53
09:56 Plymouth to Penzance due 11:49
10:00 Westbury to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:51
10:36 Paignton to London Paddington due 13:53
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 14:12
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth due 12:20
12:23 Liskeard to Looe due 12:52
12:32 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 13:32
12:45 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 13:52
12:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 14:40
12:55 Looe to Liskeard due 13:23
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:40
13:50 Liskeard to Looe due 14:19
14:01 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 15:04
14:22 Looe to Liskeard due 14:50
14:47 Westbury to Swindon due 15:29
15:10 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:20
15:20 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 16:06
15:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 16:32
15:41 Swindon to Frome due 16:31
15:47 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:40
16:11 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:56
16:20 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:37
16:30 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:29
16:36 Liskeard to Looe due 17:05
16:41 Frome to Swindon due 17:35
16:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 18:48
17:01 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 18:01
17:08 Looe to Liskeard due 17:36
17:45 Swindon to Westbury due 18:26
17:55 Liskeard to Looe due 18:24
17:56 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 19:04
18:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 20:05
18:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
18:45 Looe to Liskeard due 19:13
20:00 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 21:01
20:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:41
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:23
21:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 22:32
22:04 Portsmouth Harbour to Westbury due 23:57


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 20, 2021, 07:57:26
It's summertime, it's Sunday, and these are all cancelled due to crew shortage.

The railway faces huge challenges attracting customers in the post COVID world, this is the sort of thing which will drive them away.

09:50 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 10:53
09:56 Plymouth to Penzance due 11:49
10:00 Westbury to Portsmouth Harbour due 11:51
10:36 Paignton to London Paddington due 13:53
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 14:12
11:21 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth due 12:20
12:23 Liskeard to Looe due 12:52
12:32 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 13:32
12:45 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 13:52
12:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 14:40
12:55 Looe to Liskeard due 13:23
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 15:40
13:50 Liskeard to Looe due 14:19
14:01 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 15:04
14:22 Looe to Liskeard due 14:50
14:47 Westbury to Swindon due 15:29
15:10 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:20
15:20 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 16:06
15:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 16:32
15:41 Swindon to Frome due 16:31
15:47 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:40
16:11 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:56
16:20 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:37
16:30 London Paddington to Plymouth due 20:29
16:36 Liskeard to Looe due 17:05
16:41 Frome to Swindon due 17:35
16:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 18:48
17:01 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 18:01
17:08 Looe to Liskeard due 17:36
17:45 Swindon to Westbury due 18:26
17:55 Liskeard to Looe due 18:24
17:56 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 19:04
18:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 20:05
18:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 19:31
18:45 Looe to Liskeard due 19:13
20:00 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon due 21:01
20:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:41
21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:23
21:30 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 22:32
22:04 Portsmouth Harbour to Westbury due 23:57

Spot on. And there are 11 trains running only part of their route too - such as

13:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 16:45 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 4.

See also http://www.passenger.chat/25131


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 20, 2021, 09:35:17
I’m very surprised there’s such a shortage as I expected there to be far fewer cancellations this summer, and up until now crew shortages haven’t been much of an issue - witness the six month gap since the last post on this thread before yesterday.

Hopefully this won’t be typical of the next ten or so summer weekends to come, especially given the percentage of the cancellations that affect the crucial tourism routes in the SW today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 20, 2021, 09:52:23


Hopefully this won’t be typical of the next ten or so summer weekends to come, especially given the percentage of the cancellations that affect the crucial tourism routes in the SW today.



As Graham said - "Spot on"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: AMLAG on June 20, 2021, 14:30:04

The South West, in particular, is currently flooded out with holiday people ( 'grockles' us calls'em) from 'up country' especially from 'Delta' infected Manchester and it is no surprise that Virus infection rates are rising, with resultant self isolation etc increasingly widespread.
I know of a secondary school in deepest rural Devon ( yes there is still some left !)
that sent most of its classes / pupils home last week, having until then had NO virus cases since it and the associated restrictions all started in March LAST year.
In Lidl in Torrington this morning I heard the previously rarely heard Mancunian accent from three different holidaying families !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 20, 2021, 19:26:49
Probably will be short in the West Country for a while yet, loads of trainees in the system struggling to get on traction courses and driving hours in, huge backlog.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 20, 2021, 21:11:39

The South West, in particular, is currently flooded out with holiday people ( 'grockles' us calls'em) from 'up country' especially from 'Delta' infected Manchester and it is no surprise that Virus infection rates are rising, with resultant self isolation etc increasingly widespread.
I know of a secondary school in deepest rural Devon ( yes there is still some left !)
that sent most of its classes / pupils home last week, having until then had NO virus cases since it and the associated restrictions all started in March LAST year.
In Lidl in Torrington this morning I heard the previously rarely heard Mancunian accent from three different holidaying families !


It wasn't me, I was in Lidl in Tiverton. The accent is Oldham, similar to Manchester because of being separated by only a short tram ride. I've just had a few days in Cornwall, but I'm back home now. In Devon.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2021, 06:49:35
Only 9 cancellations listed for crew shortage this morning (and 4 of them on the Looe branch), so it seems to be more of a good old fashioned weekend issue than a COVID issue............unless there's a new variant which only strikes down rail crew at weekends?  ???


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 21, 2021, 08:00:53
Only 9 cancellations listed for crew shortage this morning (and 4 of them on the Looe branch), so it seems to be more of a good old fashioned weekend issue than a COVID issue............unless there's a new variant which only strikes down rail crew at weekends?  ???

Ah - the Beta Beta Koppa variant.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 21, 2021, 08:32:02
Only 9 cancellations listed for crew shortage this morning (and 4 of them on the Looe branch), so it seems to be more of a good old fashioned weekend issue than a COVID issue............unless there's a new variant which only strikes down rail crew at weekends?  ???

Ah - the Beta Beta Koppa variant.

Beta Beta Quebec I think?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on June 21, 2021, 14:01:46
The maximum number of drivers granted leave is the same for the weekend as they are a weekday.
 
You have more drivers rostered and more services on a weekday so it’s easier to cut and paste diagrams to cover the work.  You also have a number of rostered “training turns” during the week which the company can cancel if they’re not required and use the driver on uncovered work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on June 21, 2021, 17:06:48
You also have more people being vaccinated and having side effect reactions that mean having to have several days off.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 21, 2021, 21:30:13

Ah - the Beta Beta Koppa variant.

Beta Beta Quebec I think?


Bravo Bravo Quebec, surely? Or Beta Beta Kappa - there isn't really a Q in the Greek alphabet. But that last would be South Africa South Africa India (not the delta - India has two variants so far) according to the WHO nomenclature.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 24, 2021, 06:56:32
A lot of crew shortage problems again today - these are the cancellations listed so far and there are also a lot of foreshortenings too;

06:11 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 08:23
06:18 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 06:57
06:48 Exeter St Davids to Exmouth due 07:20
06:55 Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads due 07:13
07:01 Bristol Temple Meads to Taunton due 08:10
07:14 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 07:53
07:40 Plymouth to Penzance due 09:40
09:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 10:53
09:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 11:50
10:27 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 11:13
11:12 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 13:27
11:16 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 12:01
13:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 18:40
18:56 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 19:31
19:15 Penzance to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:50
19:58 Redhill to Reading due 21:29
21:16 Exeter St Davids to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:31
21:30 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 23:34
21:47 Exeter St Davids to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:04
22:25 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 23:32
23:05 Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Davids due 00:41


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 24, 2021, 10:41:04
Several of those are no longer listed, as the cancellation list now lists only nine trains.  Others presumably reinstated?  The 10:27 Plymouth to Gunnislake is certainly running.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on June 26, 2021, 04:50:04
It must sometimes happen that a train is cancelled due to lack of staff, AND due to lack of rolling stock.

In such circumstances how do they decide if the reason is "staff shortage" or "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"
A good argument could be made for either reason no doubt.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on June 26, 2021, 06:38:35
It must sometimes happen that a train is cancelled due to lack of staff, AND due to lack of rolling stock.

In such circumstances how do they decide if the reason is "staff shortage" or "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"
A good argument could be made for either reason no doubt.

If you are short of staff AND working trains, it makes sense to co-ordinate and I'm sure they do when possible. In other words, if a train needs repair, transfer the driver and train manager to another train which is otherwise short of its operational crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 26, 2021, 08:39:50
With a number of sectors now reporting difficulties in recruiting staff posts that are unpopular due to low wages unsocial hours or poor working conditions will become more difficult to fill. For example food shortages are predicted due to shortages of low paid staff on farms and in food processing plants and of HGV drivers to deliver the food. This is likely to lead to two trends driven by market pressure (because otherwise the it will be impossible to recruit sufficient people).

1) A reduction in the number of jobs that have unsocial working hours;
2) An increase in wages generally for the low paid and those working unsocial hours.

With increasing control by government on the rail sector I would anticipate strong pressure to resist these moves, especially as government seems unable to read the market and still thinks that its easy to go down to the labour exchange and employ anybody from a cleaner to a cardiologist. They pay lip service to training but seem to think it is really cheap and can be done in 5 minutes.  They also believe that employers always have the power to dictate even when the market says otherwise. (Because 'we hold all the trump cards') That is why politicians are the worst business owners. 

On the up side (for rail) a shortage of HGV drivers could drive a move towards more rail freight. 

The ultimate example of the market dictating a change in the labour market was the Black Death when the resulting labour shortages brought about an almost immediate end to the feudal system. I am not sure our politicians know what they have created.

I fear therefore that the future will see more cancellations due to staff shortages and more strikes over pay and working conditions in the rail sector. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on June 26, 2021, 09:07:31

With increasing control by government on the rail sector I would anticipate strong pressure to resist these moves, especially as government seems unable to read the market and still thinks that its easy to go down to the labour exchange and employ anybody from a cleaner to a cardiologist. They pay lip service to training but seem to think it is really cheap and can be done in 5 minutes.  They also believe that employers always have the power to dictate even when the market says otherwise. (Because 'we hold all the trump cards') That is why politicians are the worst business owners. 

Behind public announcement of GBR and how that will run /  manage the UK railways in the future and the impact of Covid-19 on passenger revenues is an across industry frame work agreement between the Employers (NR and FOC's n TOC's) and the Trade Unions of redundancies in the industry.   Letters offering VS are due to be sent out very soon, compulsory redundancies has not been totally ruled out. 


On the up side (for rail) a shortage of HGV drivers could drive a move towards more rail freight. 

Although the FOC's are not part of the GBR control over operator award and revenue collection, the unification of the UK railways under a single leadership should hopefully make it more reactive picking up more freight business


I fear therefore that the future will see more cancellations due to staff shortages and more strikes over pay and working conditions in the rail sector. 

The last major 'reshaping' of UK railways. privatisation, saw many experienced railway women / men retire which left quite a void in the industry 20 plus years later some of that void has been filled, with the impending changes that GBR and restructuring due to Covid-19 reduction in revenue there are many of use who went through the the last 20 are saying time to take my pension this again may well cause a void that the industry my struggle to recover from quickly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2021, 09:17:38


I fear therefore that the future will see more cancellations due to staff shortages and more strikes over pay and working conditions in the rail sector. 

As the average train driver salary tops 50k per year, with excellent pension arrangements etc I don't think there will be a great deal of sympathy for strikes - with lower demand for rail services, it could well be turkeys voting for Christmas.

You are right however re other driving jobs such as bus drivers, HGV drivers who are not at all well paid in comparison, particularly with the Brexit "dividend" shrinking the pool of those suitably qualified, however I expect most of them would happily swap their pay, terms and conditions for a driving job on the railway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on June 26, 2021, 09:38:26
As the average train driver salary tops 50k per year, with excellent pension arrangements etc I don't think there will be a great deal of sympathy for strikes - with lower demand for rail services, it could well be turkeys voting for Christmas.

You are right however re other driving jobs such as bus drivers, HGV drivers who are not at all well paid in comparison, particularly with the Brexit "dividend" shrinking the pool of those suitably qualified, however I expect most of them would happily swap their pay, terms and conditions for a driving job on the railway.

I was not thinking about drivers so much as other train crew. 

There are other shortages as well.  Shortage of technical staff and construction workers may hit the infrastructure side of railway operations.  Why work all those nights and weekends on a railway job if you can get a standard 8 till 4 construction job? Faster broadband rollout might also put pressure on signal technicians. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 26, 2021, 10:21:39
It must sometimes happen that a train is cancelled due to lack of staff, AND due to lack of rolling stock.

In such circumstances how do they decide if the reason is "staff shortage" or "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"
A good argument could be made for either reason no doubt.

That’s when the internal squabbling starts!   ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 27, 2021, 15:48:10
A marked improvement today compared with last weekend.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 27, 2021, 16:11:16
It's raining!  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 04, 2021, 19:51:44
Another pretty good, though not perfect, weekend for crew availability.  I’m sure we all hope that continues throughout summer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 04, 2021, 21:22:06
Another pretty good, though not perfect, weekend for free availability.  I’m sure we all hope that continues throughout summer.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41q8HW23ZzL._AC_SY780_.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 04, 2021, 22:30:31
Whilst BBQ’s get the cheap laughs, I fear the main threat comes from test and trace isolations which I think I read have rocketed up to getting on for half a million people a week.  So, once again, a depot outbreak and containment measures resulting from it, become a potential issue.  Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 04, 2021, 22:50:30
I’m aware of 29 people from Plymouth who have been “pinged” by the app after a non rail staff party last week which shows how disruptive it can be.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 05, 2021, 00:25:44
Whilst BBQ’s get the cheap laughs...

I tried asking the admin team for a bigger budget for the gags, but they had already spent it on burger baps and finger rolls.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 06, 2021, 17:00:53
With the finals of the Euros on Sunday expect a lot of train crew to go unavailable. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 06, 2021, 17:50:19
With the finals of the Euros on Sunday expect a lot of train crew to go unavailable. 
Glad we did our weekend in London last weekend then or could have been a case of football’s coming home but we won’t be.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 06, 2021, 18:30:12
With the finals of the Euros on Sunday expect a lot of train crew to go unavailable. 

Well let's hope if England get to the final that it's not the railways that let the side down by preventing people getting to Wembley to watch it.

That really would be great PR at such a pivotal time for the railways wouldn't it?

.......apparently (we're told)  Mr Hopwood has a plan for Sundays however, so no need to worry I'm sure!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 06, 2021, 18:35:39
With the finals of the Euros on Sunday expect a lot of train crew to go unavailable. 

Well let's hope if England get to the final that it's not the railways that let the side down by preventing people getting to Wembley to watch it.

That really would be great PR at such a pivotal time for the railways wouldn't it?

.......apparently (we're told)  Mr Hopwood has a plan for Sundays however, so no need to worry I'm sure!

It must be some plan. I don’t think £££ will be enough to tempt people away from watching England winning! 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on July 07, 2021, 04:35:54
Wouldn’t dream of chucking a Sunday in for a game of football.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on July 08, 2021, 06:48:15
Looks like Mr Hopwood's plans are going to get tested!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 08, 2021, 07:11:33
Looks like Mr Hopwood's plans are going to get tested!


It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 08, 2021, 07:59:44
Looks like Mr Hopwood's plans are going to get tested!


It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)

#We're on our way
We are Mark's train crews
Hear the roar
Of the Turbos and Castles too

This time, more than any other time, this time
We're going to find a way
To help you all get away
This time, getting it all together

We'll get it right
This time, we'll get it right

It makes you wonder
It makes you proud
To turn up on Sunday
And move those crowds

As we are marching
On towards victory

We'll get it right
This time, we'll get it right

(repeat to end of service...)#


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 08, 2021, 09:28:11
Looks like Mr Hopwood's plans are going to get tested!


It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)

No doubt the more cancellations there are on Sunday the more delighted you will be!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 08, 2021, 11:49:22
Looks like Mr Hopwood's plans are going to get tested!


It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)

No doubt the more cancellations there are on Sunday the more delighted you will be!

Bit of a silly comment II.

I'll be pretty appalled if thousands of people are inconvenienced (as I have been myself on occasions), by GWR failing to provide an appropriate Sunday service on such a significant occasion because they are unable to effectively manage their workforce & fail to put their customers first.

I'd imagine most people will feel the same & it's a potential PR disaster......the National team did the job, but the railways let the side down.

I'm sure plans are in place to avoid that scenario as you've indicated elsewhere, but if worst comes to worst, you won't need to do too much soul searching to work out why the car is King.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Witham Bobby on July 08, 2021, 13:05:12
Memories of the blackboard propped up on the wall of the shunters' cabin at Westbury South, at the time of any important match, with the score chalked-up on it.  For the benefit of passing traincrews and any passengers who looked-out for it

Communications have advanced a bit since those days


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 08, 2021, 13:15:06
Bit of a silly comment II.

That’s how your narrative often comes across, to me at least.

I will be surprised if there aren’t quite a few cancellations- that’s what a once every 55 year event and out of date working practices (and an ongoing pandemic with several staff in forced isolation) is likely to result in sadly.

I’ll be doing my bit, and probably missing the match as a result.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 08, 2021, 18:00:12
Bit of a silly comment II.

I’ll be doing my bit, and probably missing the match as a result.

Sincerely, good for you.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 08, 2021, 18:25:59

It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)

Quote
I'll be pretty appalled if thousands of people are inconvenienced (as I have been myself on occasions), by GWR failing to provide an appropriate Sunday service on such a significant occasion because they are unable to effectively manage their workforce & fail to put their customers first.

I'd imagine most people will feel the same & it's a potential PR disaster......the National team did the job, but the railways let the side down.

I'm sure plans are in place to avoid that scenario as you've indicated elsewhere, but if worst comes to worst, you won't need to do too much soul searching to work out why the car is King.

Cancellations I’m afraid to say will be a scene replicated on a lot of TOC’s. No amount of planning or money being thrown at a situation will significantly change anything. It’s potentially a once in a life time.
My TOC, we’ve made ourselves unavailable for Sunday, that includes the night shifts so it’ll probably affect things into Monday morning.

The only way to bring Sunday into the working week will be to offer a significant salary increase, that’s just not going to happen especially given the current situation and a lot of crews still wouldn’t be interested. Nothing can be changed at the moment without the approval of the DfT.

Personally I signed an employment contract which states Sunday are outside the working week and there’s no commitment to work any. I don’t see why that should ever change.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 08, 2021, 20:31:43
It would be unreasonable to force Sunday working on employees whose contracts do not require this.
However I understand that NEW staff are required to work Sundays, so the problem will gradually reduce.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 07:14:45

It may be coming home, but you probably won't be if you need a GWR train on Sunday!

Seriously though, I am sure we all have 100% faith in the Hopwood plan..............even as I write this, I am sure it is being implemented with all the seamless majesty we have come to expect........... ;)

Quote
I'll be pretty appalled if thousands of people are inconvenienced (as I have been myself on occasions), by GWR failing to provide an appropriate Sunday service on such a significant occasion because they are unable to effectively manage their workforce & fail to put their customers first.

I'd imagine most people will feel the same & it's a potential PR disaster......the National team did the job, but the railways let the side down.

I'm sure plans are in place to avoid that scenario as you've indicated elsewhere, but if worst comes to worst, you won't need to do too much soul searching to work out why the car is King.

Cancellations I’m afraid to say will be a scene replicated on a lot of TOC’s. No amount of planning or money being thrown at a situation will significantly change anything. It’s potentially a once in a life time.
My TOC, we’ve made ourselves unavailable for Sunday, that includes the night shifts so it’ll probably affect things into Monday morning.

The only way to bring Sunday into the working week will be to offer a significant salary increase, that’s just not going to happen especially given the current situation and a lot of crews still wouldn’t be interested. Nothing can be changed at the moment without the approval of the DfT.

Personally I signed an employment contract which states Sunday are outside the working week and there’s no commitment to work any. I don’t see why that should ever change.

Well, since others have cited narratives it'll be interesting to see how that one ages in the post COVID world of fewer passengers and lower demand for rail travel.

I wish all those relying on GWR/the railways to get to sporting events, work, families etc over the weekend (and on Monday morning!) the best of luck..........it sounds as if you may need it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2021, 09:22:07
A couple of dozen provisional cancellations listed on an email I’ve seen.  I would expect that to grow by Sunday.

I wonder why the final of these tournaments are held on a Sunday anyway?  Surely they’d be better on Saturday’s?  Not specifically because of the railway not being able to get its act in order, but the fact Saturday would surely suit the fans better?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 09, 2021, 09:30:30
A couple of dozen provisional cancellations listed on an email I’ve seen.  I would expect that to grow by Sunday.

Are those long distance or local services?   I see regional services in the South West have been hit today with cancellations to Barnstaple, Newquay and Paignton.

I wonder why the final of these tournaments are held on a Sunday anyway?  Surely they’d be better on Saturday’s?  Not specifically because of the railway not being able to get its act in order, but the fact Saturday would surely suit the fans better?

In some tournaments the Saturday was reserved for the third place playoff - which no one really wants to play in.  Thankfully there isn't one in this competition.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2021, 09:37:29
A mixture of both, Bob.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on July 09, 2021, 10:22:39
A lot of European leagues routinely play on Sunday evenings (or did when "routinely" meant something).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 12:13:04
A mixture of both, Bob.

GWR Twitter warning of "Planned cancellations" (that's a new one!) to Penzance/Plymouth - London services on Sunday due to staff shortages & telling people to check on Sunday before travelling.

Given the frequency of services even on a "normal" Sunday, that doesn't leave many options.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2021, 13:33:33
It would be unreasonable to force Sunday working on employees whose contracts do not require this.
However I understand that NEW staff are required to work Sundays, so the problem will gradually reduce.

Yes, that’s correct.  Though as I said a couple of years ago, it will be very gradual and take many years before making a tangible difference.

More flexible route knowledge for drivers would be a much better/quicker way to help IMHO.  For example, Reading depot is the only GWR depot that signs The North Downs and Basingstoke.

Train Manager route knowledge seems to have been expanded over the last few years and that appears to have had a positive impact on staff availability.  Perhaps the same could be considered for drivers, where average route knowledge at many depots has decreased over the years?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Surrey 455 on July 09, 2021, 16:40:22
It would be unreasonable to force Sunday working on employees whose contracts do not require this.
However I understand that NEW staff are required to work Sundays, so the problem will gradually reduce.

Yes, that’s correct.  Though as I said a couple of years ago, it will be very gradual and take many years before making a tangible difference.

More flexible route knowledge for drivers would be a much better/quicker way to help IMHO.  For example, Reading depot is the only GWR depot that signs The North Downs and Basingstoke.

Train Manager route knowledge seems to have been expanded over the last few years and that appears to have had a positive impact on staff availability.  Perhaps the same could be considered for drivers, where average route knowledge at many depots has decreased over the years?

Couldn't you just put a customized sat nav in each drivers cab to show where you are, where you are going, what speed you should be doing, where the next signal is, where the next station is, how long it will take to reach them at your current speed plus any other relevant information?

Problem solved. No route knowledge needed.

Oh, maybe not. I've just remembered it's the railway. It would come in way over budget and never work as it was supposed to eventually being scrapped before introduction.  :(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 09, 2021, 16:53:19
From GWR.com (https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information)

Quote
Changes to train services Sunday 11 July
An amended timetable will be in operation on Sunday 11 July due to a significant number of staff having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

Where possible customers will be contacted and advised of cancellations affecting their journey.

Customers wishing to travel can choose to travel on alternative services immediately before or after their booked service or claim a full refund with no admin fee if their service is affected.

Find out more about claiming a refund or rebooking your journey.

Where services can operate, they are expected to be busier than normal. Please check before you travel.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 09, 2021, 17:03:17
From GWR.com (https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information)

Quote
Changes to train services Sunday 11 July
An amended timetable will be in operation on Sunday 11 July due to a significant number of staff having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

"Interesting decision from the ref there, Ron. Might have to go to VAR..."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 17:04:26
From GWR.com (https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information)

Quote
Changes to train services Sunday 11 July
An amended timetable will be in operation on Sunday 11 July due to a significant number of staff having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

"Interesting decision from the ref there, Ron. Might have to go to VAR..."

..............there's a lot of it about you know.........

https://www.itv.com/news/border/2021-07-09/northern-warns-weekend-of-disruption-following-covid-outbreak-among-rail-staff


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 09, 2021, 17:29:26
A cynic might suspect that rail staff wanting time off for the football or for any reason might be deliberately going near to persons with covid, in order to activate the track and trace system.
Or to be more exact only their smart phone has to be within range not the owner of the phone.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 17:55:16
A cynic might suspect that rail staff wanting time off for the football or for any reason might be deliberately going near to persons with covid, in order to activate the track and trace system.
Or to be more exact only their smart phone has to be within range not the owner of the phone.

I've been lucky enough to attend some memorable sporting events in my time (mostly at Twickenham/Murrayfield/Paris/Dublin/Cardiff) , and even been to some pretty good BBQs, but I wouldn't put my life at risk by exposing myself to a virus that is killing millions of people for either, and frankly I doubt anybody with an IQ above single figures would to be honest.

I'm sure it's a coincidence and that the cynicism is unjustified on this occasion.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 09, 2021, 17:58:48
I always used to go shopping in the supermarket on FA cup final afternoon. Wonderfully quiet and I don't give a **** whether it's Aston Villa or Stenhousemuir who win it.  I suspect that passenger numbers, with the singular exception of journeys to / from Wembley (is that where the match will be played?) will be down on Sunday, and there is an element of sense in planning ahead of time to thin out the Sunday service ahead of time rather than last-minute and potentially successive-train cancellations.

Let's be short term pragmatic and say "sensible call a couple of days ahead" - as I understand at, no-one would have expected / given short odds on England (they're playing, right?) in the match, so hard to plan for too much ahead.   With the exception of trains that take real live people too and from the match, I would not expect overcrowding and if travelling otherwise on the day, much happier to know I can catch the 10:15, 12:15 or 14:15 than turn up for any :15 train and have a 50% cancellation possibility.

The "self isolate" reasoning looks thin - it could be a contributory cause, but other causes still include Sunday practises and running a tight ship with few "spare" drivers, and it does the rail industry little credit with those of us who know to give the excuse as self-isolation.  Perhaps most others take the reason give and believe it, and perhaps that's good marketing, even if it smells a bit fishy to those with trained noses.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eXPassenger on July 09, 2021, 18:12:27
If the problem is Covid self isolation then I would expect it to last for most of the week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2021, 18:32:30
COVID isolation are not helping the situation at all, but, yes, it’s a massive stretch to claim that’s the sole reason for any cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 18:37:24
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on July 09, 2021, 19:15:40
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?

Why should they be any different to people employed in any other business; I am sure other employers do not ask for such proof 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on July 09, 2021, 19:39:02
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?

Difficult if the instruction to isolate is received by telephone.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2021, 19:40:10
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?

Why should they be any different to people employed in any other business; I am sure other employers do not ask for such proof 

I am sure they do, hence the NHS provide a facility to obtain it

https://111.nhs.uk/isolation-note/


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 09, 2021, 19:46:13
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?

Why should they be any different to people employed in any other business; I am sure other employers do not ask for such proof 

From the days of running a (much, much) smaller business, there were just one or two times - over all the years - that I was concerned at a difference between the real reason and the stated reason for calling in sick (and quiet research confirmed the difference).  But that (1) person who was not with us very long could so easily have spoilt the trust for everyone.  For a much bigger business, much harder and I can understand the need to have a standard system.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Ollie on July 09, 2021, 21:43:08
Couldn't you just put a customized sat nav in each drivers cab to show where you are, where you are going, what speed you should be doing, where the next signal is, where the next station is, how long it will take to reach them at your current speed plus any other relevant information?

Problem solved. No route knowledge needed.

Oh, maybe not. I've just remembered it's the railway. It would come in way over budget and never work as it was supposed to eventually being scrapped before introduction.  :(

Sorry to say, but it wouldn't be particularly realistic on its own.

That screen would need a lot of info displayed at once to be realistic in matching what a driver and train manager learns as part of the route knowledge.

To give some examples.

Line speed on a display and how far to next station and signal is all well and good, but if I'm doing 125mph, I want to know the route, I want to know where appropriate places are to start braking for the next station, taking into account various speeds I may be doing if I'd been on restrictive signals.

What if the sat nav loses signal, I'm approaching a signal in an area I've not signed, is the signal giving the correct indication for the route I need to be taking. Will it give enough notice that I'm going to go over a junction where I need to get the speed down to 40mph? Yes for this sort of thing there are indications the signal can give you, but it's the route knowledge that defines what you do with information that the signal presents.

Don't want to take this too off topic so won't keep listing reasons for route knowledge being important, but give me a train that is crewed up with staff that have learned the route over a train with staff and a customised sat nav any day.

Closest you will get to what you describe is places like the Thameslink core or some underground routes which have automatic operation, but even then, someone is required on board still, and they need the appropriate knowledge to be able to take control.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 09, 2021, 22:54:29
I would have thought if there were any doubt in individual cases, staff could be asked to provide a screenshot of the instruction to isolate that they've received?

I was suggesting that the instruction to isolate might be genuine, but that this instruction results from deliberately placing the phone near a person known to be or suspected to be infected.

Example; person A has the virus and persons B, C, and D who were near A self isolate as instructed by the app. Persons E, F, and G, then hear of this and and go near A. Screenshot no help here as the instruction really was received.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 10, 2021, 04:37:11
Example; person A has the virus and persons B, C, and D who were near A self isolate as instructed by the app. Persons E, F, and G, then hear of this and and go near A. Screenshot no help here as the instruction really was received.

Unless you have a time machine to travel back and go near "A" while he's still on the loose, don't see how this would work, even if E F and G were devious enough.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 10, 2021, 07:46:35
Of the long distance routes, mainly London-Devon affected with crew shortage cancellations today, but on the face of it, not too bad given the warnings issued last night..............we shall have to see how many more (un)fortunately timed isolation notices get issued today, and of course the BBQ/football factor tomorrow.

Given that GWR's warning only suggested COVID isolation rather than general staff shortage as an issue however, perhaps the plan re: Sundays is holding up and we will be be spared the carnage tomorrow that has been predicted?

06:38 Bristol Parkway to Penzance due 11:41
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:05
08:55 Paignton to London Paddington due 12:09
09:04 Plymouth to Paignton due 10:09
10:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 13:47
10:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:09
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:28
12:35 Lawrence Hill to Severn Beach due 13:09
12:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 16:22
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:01
14:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:09
16:04 London Paddington to Plymouth due 19:21
16:10 Par to Newquay due 16:55
16:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 19:48
17:15 Newquay to Par due 18:00
18:13 Par to Newquay due 19:06
18:35 Westbury to Swindon due 19:24
18:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:08 Newquay to Par due 19:59
19:34 Swindon to Westbury due 20:16


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 10, 2021, 08:14:42
but on the face of it, not too bad given the warnings issued last night ...

Hmmm ... patchy. Dire for places like Pewsey ...

Quote
08:55 Paignton to London Paddington due 12:09
10:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:09
12:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 16:22
14:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 18:09
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

09:29 to 19:25 gap in trains Eastbound at first glance (and second glance may reveal further problems).   Similar westbound problems.  No indication of any alternatives, such as extra stops on the expresses, replacement buses, or extension of the Bedwyn shuttle to Westbury on Journey check.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 10, 2021, 08:43:21
The 09:04 and 11:04 Paddington to Penzance are both making extra calls at Pewsey according to journey planners but do not appear on Journeycheck.

EDIT:  they do now!  Added while I was typing the above.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 10, 2021, 10:04:17
Extra calls being made at Newbury, Pewsey and Castle Cary but not so much at Westbury.

Of course Westbury does have the advantage of connecting to London services either via Bath or the Transwilts. Even so, the loss of so many direct services to/from London, though not affecting vast numbers of passengers using Westbury is still not a good service today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 10, 2021, 10:49:28
From National Rail - summarising long distance GWR arrangements tomorrow - nb most Penzance/Plymouth - London services are showing fully booked;

Night Riviera Sleeper services

The Night Riviera Sleeper services are cancelled, you may use your ticket for travel on an earlier train on Sunday 11th July or for travel on the following day Monday 12th July.

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington
 

Train services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads, Weston-super-Mare & Plymouth

14:56 Plymouth to London Paddington via Bristol Temple Meads at 17:02 will be cancelled.
18:27 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington will be cancelled
20:15 Weston-super- Mare to London Paddington will be cancelled
16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads will be cancelled
17:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will terminate at Bristol Temple Meads
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will be cancelled.

Train services between London Paddington, Westbury, Exeter St Davids, Plymouth and Penzance
Train services from London Paddington:

08:00 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
09:13 Plymouth to Penzance will be cancelled
12:02 London Paddington to Penzance will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
14:37 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids will be cancelled.
15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth will call additionally at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary.
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance will be cancelled.
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth will be cancelled.
 

Train services to London Paddington:

10:16 Penzance to London Paddington will be cancelled.
14:13 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
12:16 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Plymouth.
15:18 Penzance to London Paddington, will call additionally at Castle Cary, Westbury and Pewsey.
17:40 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington will be cancelled.
17:50 Penzance to London Paddington will start at Exeter St Davids.
 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 10, 2021, 10:51:56
Night Riviera Sleeper services

The Night Riviera Sleeper services are cancelled, you may use your ticket for travel on an earlier train on Sunday 11th July or for travel on the following day Monday 12th July.

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington

Customers already booked for the sleeper were contacted individually on Friday to warn them it was a possibility the services might be cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 10, 2021, 12:19:32
A very poor performance indeed, both as regards the sleeper, and more generally.
Blaming it on self isolation due to covid sounds better than saying "normal Summer staff shortages" Or suggesting that the new trains could be at fault.

"The West Country is open" but don't try to travel by train.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 10, 2021, 12:28:03
Night Riviera Sleeper services

The Night Riviera Sleeper services are cancelled, you may use your ticket for travel on an earlier train on Sunday 11th July or for travel on the following day Monday 12th July.

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington

Customers already booked for the sleeper were contacted individually on Friday to warn them it was a possibility the services might be cancelled.

I see that there's a 2350 service scheduled (in its place?) Paddington- Plymouth tomorrow night. Realistically the only option for those going to Wembley & planning to return to the Westcountry.

It's already listed as fully booked. I guess the nightmare scenario for GWR is an England defeat and lots of unhappy fans arriving back at Paddington with no means of getting home....that could get quite unpleasant.....perhaps there are plans to run another, even later service as a contingency?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 10, 2021, 13:02:38
Example; person A has the virus and persons B, C, and D who were near A self isolate as instructed by the app. Persons E, F, and G, then hear of this and and go near A. Screenshot no help here as the instruction really was received.

Unless you have a time machine to travel back and go near "A" while he's still on the loose, don't see how this would work, even if E F and G were devious enough.

It would require that A alerts E F and G promptly before A goes home to watch the football self isolate.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2021, 15:38:29
I see that there's a 2350 service scheduled (in its place?) Paddington- Plymouth tomorrow night. Realistically the only option for those going to Wembley & planning to return to the Westcountry.

It's already listed as fully booked. I guess the nightmare scenario for GWR is an England defeat and lots of unhappy fans arriving back at Paddington with no means of getting home....that could get quite unpleasant.....perhaps there are plans to run another, even later service as a contingency?

Do you think many people would be watching the match at Wembley and wanting to get back to Exeter or beyond late that evening?  I can't see more than a trickle at the most.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2021, 15:45:11
Example; person A has the virus and persons B, C, and D who were near A self isolate as instructed by the app. Persons E, F, and G, then hear of this and and go near A. Screenshot no help here as the instruction really was received.

Unless you have a time machine to travel back and go near "A" while he's still on the loose, don't see how this would work, even if E F and G were devious enough.

It would require that A alerts E F and G promptly before A goes home to watch the football self isolate.

I'm not sure making such elaborate and fanciful suggestions does your credibility much good, Broadgage.

Especially as we've already established many staff can just make themselves unavailable (with 5 days notice), or if really desperate, just throw a conventional sickie.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 10, 2021, 15:51:15
I see that there's a 2350 service scheduled (in its place?) Paddington- Plymouth tomorrow night. Realistically the only option for those going to Wembley & planning to return to the Westcountry.

It's already listed as fully booked. I guess the nightmare scenario for GWR is an England defeat and lots of unhappy fans arriving back at Paddington with no means of getting home....that could get quite unpleasant.....perhaps there are plans to run another, even later service as a contingency?

Do you think many people would be watching the match at Wembley and wanting to get back to Exeter or beyond late that evening?  I can't see more than a trickle at the most.

Following morning I suspect. Advance tickets on the 06:37 and 07:04 available at £53.20 to Exeter, mind.  Then best fare on the 08:04 and 09:04 is £140.00


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 10, 2021, 17:15:05
I see that there's a 2350 service scheduled (in its place?) Paddington- Plymouth tomorrow night. Realistically the only option for those going to Wembley & planning to return to the Westcountry.

It's already listed as fully booked. I guess the nightmare scenario for GWR is an England defeat and lots of unhappy fans arriving back at Paddington with no means of getting home....that could get quite unpleasant.....perhaps there are plans to run another, even later service as a contingency?

Do you think many people would be watching the match at Wembley and wanting to get back to Exeter or beyond late that evening?  I can't see more than a trickle at the most.

The fact that it's flagged as sold out and only stops at Reading, Exeter and Newton Abbot before Plymouth suggests it'll be busy into Devon, and I note it goes on to Penzance - IET instead of sleeper to fit more people on I guess?







Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bradshaw on July 10, 2021, 17:15:53
SWR seem to have joined in.

 https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1413875664948695043?s=21

Quote
Due to high levels of Covid-related absences, services on Sunday may be subject to short-notice cancellation.

We are sorry if this impacts your journey and urge all customers to check before you travel at: southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey  


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2021, 17:33:07
I see that there's a 2350 service scheduled (in its place?) Paddington- Plymouth tomorrow night. Realistically the only option for those going to Wembley & planning to return to the Westcountry.

It's already listed as fully booked. I guess the nightmare scenario for GWR is an England defeat and lots of unhappy fans arriving back at Paddington with no means of getting home....that could get quite unpleasant.....perhaps there are plans to run another, even later service as a contingency?

Do you think many people would be watching the match at Wembley and wanting to get back to Exeter or beyond late that evening?  I can't see more than a trickle at the most.

The fact that it's flagged as sold out and only stops at Reading, Exeter and Newton Abbot before Plymouth suggests it'll be busy into Devon, and I note it goes on to Penzance - IET instead of sleeper to fit more people on I guess?

I think that very few tickets would have been available for advance sale, as is the case for other services at the moment, as Graham indicated here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=25144.msg307795#msg307795

So, given the sleeper has very limited seating, and still has to comply with the social distancing restrictions in that link, ‘sold out’ probably means very little and I don’t think many people would take the risk of just turning up.

If it does run as an IET then I think that will provide amble accommodation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 10, 2021, 17:36:42
SWR seem to have joined in.

 https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1413875664948695043?s=21

Quote
Due to high levels of Covid-related absences, services on Sunday may be subject to short-notice cancellation.

We are sorry if this impacts your journey and urge all customers to check before you travel at: southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey  

Had to laugh at that reply!  :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on July 10, 2021, 18:53:19
SWR seem to have joined in.

 https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1413875664948695043?s=21

Quote
Due to high levels of Covid-related absences, services on Sunday may be subject to short-notice cancellation.

We are sorry if this impacts your journey and urge all customers to check before you travel at: southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey  
Judging by the responses to this tweet people aren’t buying that the absences are covid related. Cynical lot rail users are.  ;)

Maybe if it had said due to covid and the football it might have been more believed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on July 10, 2021, 20:34:45
SWR seem to have joined in.

 https://twitter.com/sw_help/status/1413875664948695043?s=21

Quote
Due to high levels of Covid-related absences, services on Sunday may be subject to short-notice cancellation.

We are sorry if this impacts your journey and urge all customers to check before you travel at: southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey  

All TOCs and NRE are saying COVID or self isolating rather than telling the truth.  I think it will eventually emerge into the open regarding the match
Judging by the responses to this tweet people aren’t buying that the absences are covid related. Cynical lot rail users are.  ;)

Maybe if it had said due to covid and the football it might have been more believed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 11, 2021, 02:41:54
The big day has finally arrived!

#Got your bike on
Reserved the space
On an IET
Don't give up your place
Got your day trip planned
To Centre Court
But your train's cancelled
They've run it short

Express cancelled?
Let's run it short
Pullman cancelled?
Send broadgage some port
TransWilts cancelled?
Can grahame be bought?
Call the Pickfords up but don't get caught

They've got the trains in motion
There's no end to what they can do
They've got the trains in motion
And we can't believe it's true

At St Philip's Marsh
There's no-one there
Laira deserted too
Both depots bare
Across the west
They drink to England's health
But no toast for Mark
He'll drive those trains himself

Express cancelled?
Stick a Turbo on
Newquay cancelled?
Paging Richard Burningham
Severn Beach cancelled?
Don't tell Julie Boston
Let's get First Bus on the phone

They've got the trains in motion
From Truro, Taunton and Tenby
They've got the trains in motion
Even Pilning too next week

You get the units out
And put them on the right lines
They can be slow or fast
But they must get there on time
Lee will always mock you and rock you
With an annoying song
But look what happened to them
Last time the French won

So catch us if you can
Cos I'm the Great Western man
And what you're looking at
Is our emergency plan
Westbury rugby fans
Will put the Melkshams on
Three Trains at least today
So grahame can't go wrong

We've nearly made it
Here we come!
Outskirts of London
Journey's nearly over
Here we come!
Arriving early at Paddington#


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 11, 2021, 03:06:48
From my London (https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/euros-hundreds-train-cancellations-due-21020415) - a more rounded view of the factors behind the anticipated thinning of services today.

Quote
England fans face widespread travel disruption tomorrow (July 11) on their way to and from the Euro 2020 final at Wembley.

This is after multiple train lines have announced cancellations, a large portion of which are the result of a spike in staff self-isolating, according to the Telegraph.

Other issues include delays to one company's driver training scheme caused by the pandemic and an agreement with trade unions which means that it is 'voluntary' for drivers to work on Sundays.

Unsurprisingly, many staff are also reported not to want to miss the final for work despite being offered a good overtime deal.

Away from travel to and from the match, I would think that passenger volumes will be relatively low today and the loss of alternate trains on services that normally run more than once an hour is regrettable but understandable and a even a sensible move if not done at the last minute.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 11, 2021, 03:20:23
From my London (https://www.mylondon.news/news/west-london-news/euros-hundreds-train-cancellations-due-21020415) - a more rounded view of the factors behind the anticipated thinning of services today.

Quote
England fans face widespread travel disruption tomorrow (July 11) on their way to and from the Euro 2020 final at Wembley.

This is after multiple train lines have announced cancellations, a large portion of which are the result of a spike in staff self-isolating, according to the Telegraph.

Other issues include delays to one company's driver training scheme caused by the pandemic and an agreement with trade unions which means that it is 'voluntary' for drivers to work on Sundays.

Unsurprisingly, many staff are also reported not to want to miss the final for work despite being offered a good overtime deal.

Away from travel to and from the match, I would think that passenger volumes will be relatively low today and the loss of alternate trains on services that normally run more than once an hour is regrettable but understandable and a even a sensible move if not done at the last minute.

Interesting that the "more rounded view" comes from a "Trainee Reporter", rather than My London's Transport Correspondent, who I recall that you are not the greatest fan of. (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23073.msg307282#msg307282)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 11, 2021, 09:06:22
Epidemiologists have announced that they suspect the emergence of a new COVID variant (provisionally categorised as TOC-BBQ) which is necessitating mass isolation of those affected.

It is thought to have evolved suddenly last week - around 10pm on Wednesday - in a particularly sophisticated way and only affects one group - English rail crew on certain days of the week - it's feared to be particularly virulent this weekend - symptoms appear to have emerged on Friday evening and the science suggests that it will be short lived - any illness will disappear miraculously on Monday although there may be a severe headache if excessive liquid is taken.

Those employed in all other sectors as well as rail crew in Wales and Scotland seem to have been unaffected and able to continue as normal.

 ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 11, 2021, 16:13:22
And the means by which this new variant spreads shall be known as the "broadgage effect"


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sleepy on July 11, 2021, 20:33:16
Noticed no departures from Penzance after the 1616 for FIVE hours  :o :o wonder how many were caught out, wonder if bus ticket acceptance for local journeys was in place ?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 11, 2021, 20:44:03
Noticed no departures from Penzance after the 1616 for FIVE hours  :o :o wonder how many were caught out, wonder if bus ticket acceptance for local journeys was in place ?

Most trains I’ve seen today seemed as quiet as this thread has been today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 11, 2021, 21:22:42
Looks like the sleepers are running.  Empty stock from Reading just about to arrive in Paddington. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 11, 2021, 21:27:28
And the means by which this new variant spreads shall be known as the "broadgage effect"

That would suggest it came in via a Port.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: jamestheredengine on July 11, 2021, 22:59:55
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will be cancelled
Interestingly they stuck the Chippenham and Bath Spa stops into the 2043 to Swansea instead.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 11, 2021, 23:21:52
Hard luck, England.  No shame in losing on penalties.  Wishing a safe and incident free journey home to the fans of both sides, and shame on those ‘fans’ who broke through security and into the ground.  I was able to watch most of the match in the end.

Finally, let’s spare a thought for Lee who must’ve put a lot of effort into his poem with only two ‘likes’ so far.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 12, 2021, 00:10:58
Hard luck, England.  No shame in losing on penalties.  Wishing a safe and incident free journey home to the fans of both sides, and shame on those ‘fans’ who broke through security and into the ground.  I was able to watch most of the match in the end.

Finally, let’s spare a thought for Lee who must’ve put a lot of effort into his poem with only two ‘likes’ so far.

No worries there - I'm sure I will survive  ;D

Interesting you should word it that way, though. I remember having an interesting conversation with the admin team on the subject of "likes" a while back.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 12, 2021, 06:18:44
Early trains this morning cancelled ...

Quote
05:00 Bristol Temple Meads to Taunton due 06:05
05:04 London Paddington to Oxford due 06:05
05:35 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 07:59
05:40 Plymouth to Penzance due 07:38
05:41 London Paddington to Greenford due 06:04
06:01 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 07:09
06:12 Greenford to West Ealing due 06:23
06:27 West Ealing to Greenford due 06:39
06:32 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 07:43
06:42 Greenford to West Ealing due 06:53
06:46 Reading to Gatwick Airport due 08:22
06:57 West Ealing to Greenford due 07:09
07:04 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:17
07:07 Oxford to London Paddington due 08:06
07:12 Greenford to West Ealing due 07:24
08:13 Worcester Shrub Hill to London Paddington due 10:24
08:32 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 09:54
08:41 Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:31
08:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 11:55

Though NOT all crew related - for example:

Quote
06:01 Bedwyn to London Paddington due 07:09 will be cancelled.
This is due to overcrowding because of a sporting event.

Quote
06:12 Greenford to West Ealing due 06:23 will be cancelled.
This is due to a passenger being taken ill on this train.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 12, 2021, 06:39:08
20:30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare will be cancelled
Interestingly they stuck the Chippenham and Bath Spa stops into the 2043 to Swansea instead.

Noting 1Z30 - an extra train at 20:29, Paddington to Swindon, pathed at 110 mph, so a 387 (or several thereof!)

Good call with the Swanse - as far as I can see - no Paddington to Bristol or beyond services running.  18 minutes late into Swansea as a result.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 12, 2021, 06:45:29
Hard luck, England.  No shame in losing on penalties.  Wishing a safe and incident free journey home to the fans of both sides, and shame on those ‘fans’ who broke through security and into the ground.  I was able to watch most of the match in the end.

Finally, let’s spare a thought for Lee who must’ve put a lot of effort into his poem with only two ‘likes’ so far.

No worries there - I'm sure I will survive  ;D

Interesting you should word it that way, though. I remember having an interesting conversation with the admin team on the subject of "likes" a while back.

Ignore the bitchy comments Lee, I thought your songs were witty and amusing and clearly you'd put a lot of thought into them!

Next week however you will have some competition, Industry Insider and his colleagues will be releasing their reworking of the old Boomtown Rats classic "I don't like Sundays"  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 12, 2021, 07:17:23
Ignore the bitchy comments Lee, I thought your songs were witty and amusing and clearly you'd put a lot of thought into them!

I didn't see any bitchy comments onto Lee's post - did I miss something or do I have the hide of a Rhino these days? 

In the moderator area, we keep a vague eye on what are popular threads and posts and what areas are less so, and we have noted that long and detailed posts - posts that have taken a great deal of work on the part of the author - often "underperform", but then a one-liner comment on those posts will take off, with lots of people like-ing it. Those of us who write the longer posts take a degree of solace from the fact that we provided the hook onto which the like-able response was hung.

I am delighted that members are generous with their likes of new, nervous and occasional posters - it takes some courage to post here for the first time (or the first time in ages) and that skew of likes indicates a care and thoughtfulness in our membership that I am proud of.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 12, 2021, 07:30:20
Ignore the bitchy comments Lee, I thought your songs were witty and amusing and clearly you'd put a lot of thought into them!

I didn't see any bitchy comments onto Lee's post - did I miss something or do I have the hide of a Rhino these days? 

In the moderator area, we keep a vague eye on what are popular threads and posts and what areas are less so, and we have noted that long and detailed posts - posts that have taken a great deal of work on the part of the author - often "underperform", but then a one-liner comment on those posts will take off, with lots of people like-ing it. Those of us who write the longer posts take a degree of solace from the fact that we provided the hook onto which the like-able response was hung.

I am delighted that members are generous with their likes of new, nervous and occasional posters - it takes some courage to post here for the first time (or the first time in ages) and that skew of likes indicates a care and thoughtfulness in our membership that I am proud of.

"Finally, let’s spare a thought for Lee who must’ve put a lot of effort into his poem with only two ‘likes’ so far."

Maybe catty would have been a better word than bitchy, but don't overthink it Graham, it's only a bit of fun amongst us divas!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 13, 2021, 06:38:40
From GWR.com (https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information)

Quote
Changes to train services Sunday 11 July
An amended timetable will be in operation on Sunday 11 July due to a significant number of staff having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

Where possible customers will be contacted and advised of cancellations affecting their journey.

Customers wishing to travel can choose to travel on alternative services immediately before or after their booked service or claim a full refund with no admin fee if their service is affected.

Find out more about claiming a refund or rebooking your journey.

Where services can operate, they are expected to be busier than normal. Please check before you travel.

.......despite the number of staff having to self isolate only two days ago, GWR are to be congratulated on a remarkable recovery over the last 48 hours with only two related cancellations listed this morning, and these due to a shortage of "on train" staff.

One wonders what could have caused this Lazarus-esque transformation since Sunday morning? Perhaps the secret could be shared with a grateful nation? Has it come home?  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on July 13, 2021, 07:40:54
From GWR.com (https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information)

Quote
Changes to train services Sunday 11 July
An amended timetable will be in operation on Sunday 11 July due to a significant number of staff having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

Where possible customers will be contacted and advised of cancellations affecting their journey.

Customers wishing to travel can choose to travel on alternative services immediately before or after their booked service or claim a full refund with no admin fee if their service is affected.

Find out more about claiming a refund or rebooking your journey.

Where services can operate, they are expected to be busier than normal. Please check before you travel.

.......despite the number of staff having to self isolate only two days ago, GWR are to be congratulated on a remarkable recovery over the last 48 hours with only two related cancellations listed this morning, and these due to a shortage of "on train" staff.

One wonders what could have caused this Lazarus-esque transformation since Sunday morning? Perhaps the secret could be shared with a grateful nation? Has it come home?  :)

Arrivederci.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 13, 2021, 12:46:13
Six cancellations and one short run now listed as down to a shortage of train crew. 

I guess (very roughly and very crudely) that means a shortage of a couple of drivers from the bare minimum required today, versus a shortage of twenty or so on Sunday for the sixty or so cancellations then.  That would probably tie in with the additional numbers that would have made themselves unavailable to work/gone sick rather than the numbers still being required to self isolate of which there are quite a few still.

So, in summary, even without track and trace isolations I think there would still have been a fair few cancellations on Sunday, but not quite as many.  Even though the total tally wasn't as many as some feared/predicted/hoped for.   ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 13, 2021, 12:56:25
Not limited to train crew!

Quote
A national driver shortage and the continued impacts of COVID-19 mean Bristol Waste have significantly fewer drivers than usual.

To maintain essential waste and recycling services, garden waste collections including sack collections have been suspended for ten weeks from 7 July 2021 and they won't be able to return for missed garden waste collections.

We'll send details of discounts and refunds as well as interim solutions directly to subscribers affected by the disruption.

You can:

  • find tips on what to do with you garden waste on the Bristol Waste’s website
  • buy a compost bin and turn some of your waste into compost

Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work through the issue.
Source: Bristol City Council (https://www.bristol.gov.uk/bins-recycling/green-garden-bin)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on July 13, 2021, 13:38:45
Bus runs also being badly cut back, or not not running at all with shortage of drivers & engineers


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 13, 2021, 14:05:20
I noticed that Heathrow T5 was in the ‘papers’ for huge queues due to a shortage of check-in staff for the same reason.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: plymothian on July 13, 2021, 18:26:37
All these damned commies wanting national barbecues.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on July 15, 2021, 15:07:42
14:11 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:24
14:11 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:24 will be started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Penzance, St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

And to follow for Cornish passengers wanting that train -
14:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 16:45
Facilities on the 14:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 16:45.
This is due to overcrowding because of an earlier cancellation.
Service full and standing from Penzance.

OK, maybe wait for the next one
15:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:14
Facilities on the 15:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:14.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 4.

15:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 19:04
15:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 19:04 will be terminated at Par.
It will no longer call at Lostwithiel, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, St Germans, Saltash, Plymouth, Ivybridge, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth, Dawlish, Dawlish Warren and Exeter St Davids.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2021, 07:26:28
All cancelled so far today due to crew shortage - weekend seems to be worse for isolation?

Again, not great for attracting leisure travellers

Looking at the weather I expect we'll start seeing cancellations due to sunshine again before long........be careful out there!!!

07:08 Gloucester to Cardiff Central due 08:22
07:16 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 08:03
07:37 Westbury to Swindon due 08:24
07:38 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 11:00
08:34 Swindon to Westbury due 09:18
09:00 Cardiff Central to Gloucester due 10:28
10:33 Westbury to Swindon due 11:17
10:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 13:59
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:28
12:00 Cardiff Central to Great Malvern due 14:29
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:24 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 15:10
14:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:28
14:32 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 16:30
15:14 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:00
16:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 18:30
16:28 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 19:40
16:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:59
17:02 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 19:06
17:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:30
17:39 Gloucester to Cardiff Central due 19:20
18:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:32 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 21:40
20:02 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:02 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 21:21
21:30 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 22:16
22:20 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 23:07
22:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:50
23:28 Bath Spa to Westbury due 23:57


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 17, 2021, 13:22:56
All cancelled so far today due to crew shortage - weekend seems to be worse for isolation?

Shortages due to isolations are harder to soak up at weekends, especially Sundays.  In the case of Saturday's there is often the maximum number of staff allowed on leave at most depots, so the standby drivers aren't available in such great numbers as they are on weekdays to cover for any additional shortages such as staff who've been told to self isolate.  In the case of Sunday's there are, as we know, many drivers who can say they are unavailable with 5 days notice, which can exacerbate the Saturday situation further.

Over half a million people told to isolate last week alone, which is having ramifications across the country: https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/953517/inside-government-plan-to-track-and-trace-pinging-epidemic


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2021, 15:15:24
All cancelled so far today due to crew shortage - weekend seems to be worse for isolation?

Shortages due to isolations are harder to soak up at weekends, especially Sundays.  In the case of Saturday's there is often the maximum number of staff allowed on leave at most depots, so the standby drivers aren't available in such great numbers as they are on weekdays to cover for any additional shortages such as staff who've been told to self isolate.  In the case of Sunday's there are, as we know, many drivers who can say they are unavailable with 5 days notice, which can exacerbate the Saturday situation further.

Over half a million people told to isolate last week alone, which is having ramifications across the country: https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/953517/inside-government-plan-to-track-and-trace-pinging-epidemic

Thanks for that, a good explanation.

It's regrettable that Hopwood and the Unions still haven't sorted out the Sunday situation, ongoing for years, which would at least have made the service more robust, COVID notwithstanding.

Suspect it's still sitting on the "too difficult" pile.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on July 17, 2021, 16:35:49
All cancelled so far today due to crew shortage - weekend seems to be worse for isolation?

Shortages due to isolations are harder to soak up at weekends, especially Sundays.  In the case of Saturday's there is often the maximum number of staff allowed on leave at most depots, so the standby drivers aren't available in such great numbers as they are on weekdays to cover for any additional shortages such as staff who've been told to self isolate.  In the case of Sunday's there are, as we know, many drivers who can say they are unavailable with 5 days notice, which can exacerbate the Saturday situation further.

Over half a million people told to isolate last week alone, which is having ramifications across the country: https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/953517/inside-government-plan-to-track-and-trace-pinging-epidemic

Thanks for that, a good explanation.

It's regrettable that Hopwood and the Unions still haven't sorted out the Sunday situation, ongoing for years, which would at least have made the service more robust, COVID notwithstanding.

Suspect it's still sitting on the "too difficult" pile.

GWR not alone.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 17, 2021, 17:52:16
Nothing will happen regarding Sunday’s now without the DfT getting heavily involved, so in other words nothing will happen.  Once GBR is established it would be a good time to push through a standard set of train crew agreements nationwide covering Sunday’s in the working week.

They will have rather a lot of other plates to spin though.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on July 17, 2021, 19:05:43
I am not sure that the situation at the moment would be much better if they had 'sorted the Sunday situation'. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on July 18, 2021, 09:40:41
The place to start is with new staff. It wouldn't be fair to burden them with every summer weekend just because no-one else will do it, so there will still be regular issues. Within a decade, though, there will be a great number of train drivers and managers whose contracts include weekends in rotation, and within 20 years, the staff who can choose not to work weekends will be a small minority. That's quicker than renegotiating contracts between unions, ToCs aand DfT.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 18, 2021, 10:20:46
The place to start is with new staff. It wouldn't be fair to burden them with every summer weekend just because no-one else will do it, so there will still be regular issues. Within a decade, though, there will be a great number of train drivers and managers whose contracts include weekends in rotation, and within 20 years, the staff who can choose not to work weekends will be a small minority. That's quicker than renegotiating contracts between unions, ToCs aand DfT.

Bear in mind most staff are currently rostered to work two in three Saturday’s and have to take leave if they want the day off.  Yet Saturday’s remain fragile for coverage.

How many more Saturday’s should new staff be rostered to work?  Three in four?  Four out of five?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 18, 2021, 10:22:53
The first batch of new drivers since the pandemic started are due to be passed out from Monday so hopefully that’ll help ease the situation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sixty3Closure on July 18, 2021, 12:07:29
The place to start is with new staff. It wouldn't be fair to burden them with every summer weekend just because no-one else will do it, so there will still be regular issues. Within a decade, though, there will be a great number of train drivers and managers whose contracts include weekends in rotation, and within 20 years, the staff who can choose not to work weekends will be a small minority. That's quicker than renegotiating contracts between unions, ToCs aand DfT.

This is how we did it in what is still a fairly unionised industry. New staff have different contracts and T&Cs and over the last 20 years or so most of the staff on old terms & conditions leave or adapt.

I'd argue we've probably gone too far in that nearly all payments for short notice change, bank holidays, weekends etc have gone and its quite hard to rely on goodwill. However, there is now a culture of 24/7 and weekend and night working that is part of the job. I think its fair so long as you know what you're signing up for.

I have done some recruitment which includes 'night shifts' in 'a 24/7 environment' prominently in the advert and have people ask if that means they go home at 10PM or late evening.   


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 18, 2021, 16:46:31
The place to start is with new staff. It wouldn't be fair to burden them with every summer weekend just because no-one else will do it, so there will still be regular issues. Within a decade, though, there will be a great number of train drivers and managers whose contracts include weekends in rotation, and within 20 years, the staff who can choose not to work weekends will be a small minority. That's quicker than renegotiating contracts between unions, ToCs aand DfT.

Bear in mind most staff are currently rostered to work two in three Saturday’s and have to take leave if they want the day off.  Yet Saturday’s remain fragile for coverage.

How many more Saturday’s should new staff be rostered to work?  Three in four?  Four out of five?

Do you think the can should be kicked down the road for the next 10-20 years?

The railways face a significant contraction in demand for business use with the new world of hybrid working - God knows where that leaves the argument for HS2 but that's for another time.

The opportunity for the railways is in leisure travel - the aspiration writ loud in this forum by many - get people out of their cars and onto the train.

To achieve that, you need a product that can at least approach the convenience of a car and (mostly!) it's reliability when people want it- leaving COVID aside, that is not going to be achieved by unpredictable reliability and frequent mass cancellations when customers want to travel most - and that, I'm afraid, is often Sunday afternoons after a weekend away.

There is a reasonably narrow window of opportunity for the railways to step up to the plate and provide a service that might tempt people off the A38/M5/M4 etc.

Those waving contracts around and beating their chests may care to consider that reduced demand overall means reduced career opportunities - and if the ability to bring the London commute to a halt, which let's be honest is largely what the RMT have relied on for leverage over the years becomes a lot less significant with the rise of remote working, those desperate to hang on to outdated ts and cs may well reflect that they may have to bend a little, or lose a lot more than the occasional Sunday.

Change can be difficult and uncomfortable for some - but for the railway to succeed, it'll be essential, and I'm not sure it can wait for a couple of decades.

Perhaps one to discuss at the next (socially distanced) BBQ?  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on July 19, 2021, 02:24:36
With each year that passes there will be more staff required to work on Sundays, supplemented by some of those who don't HAVE to work on Sundays, but choose to so do.

A lot of the present problems are due to a general lack of staff, with recruitment and training being delayed. Observe for example the number of weekday cancellations due to lack of staff.
Once sufficient staff are recruited and trained to offer a better weekday service, then this will help somewhat with Sundays.

IIRC, some newly passed out drivers are due to start work very shortly.

Before any undue optimism breaks out though remember that infrastructure failures and lack of serviceable trains are ongoing. Enough staff is only solving one of the problems.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 19, 2021, 06:31:25
Before any undue optimism breaks out though remember that infrastructure failures and lack of serviceable trains are ongoing. Enough staff is only solving one of the problems.

Have you been reading my correspondence with GWR?  ;D ;D - As you know we have had an appalling record at Melksham so far this month and I have been trying to establish what we should do about a nationwide campaign at the end of this month - hat we can offer in terms of day trips where people are assured they can (a) get there in the morning and (b) get home without hassle / long delay later in the day. In the analysis, as well as a dozen services cancelled due to lack of train crew, over a dozen have been cancelled due to point, signalling and train faults so far this month.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 19, 2021, 18:40:31
Mayor of London calling for essential TfL staff to be allowed the same exemption from isolation as NHS staff....ie double jabbed with negative test & they can carry on working if pinged.

Would seem sensible for the railways too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on July 19, 2021, 19:23:42
Mayor of London calling for essential TfL staff to be allowed the same exemption from isolation as NHS staff....ie double jabbed with negative test & they can carry on working if pinged.

Would seem sensible for the railways too.

And Boris has answered, in his usual sort-of manner, already:
Quote
As you know we will be moving on August the 16th to a system of testing rather than isolation for those who are double vaccinated by which time we hope that the wall of immunity in our country will be even higher.

And, in the meantime, I want to assure you that we will protect crucial services including the staffing of our hospitals and care homes, the supplies of food, water, electricity and medicines, the running of our trains, the protection of our borders and the defence of our realm, by making sure that a very small number of named, fully vaccinated, critical workers to leave isolation solely for this work. But for the vast majority of us, myself included, I’m afraid we do need to stick with this system for now. And, of course, the only reason we are able to open up in this way at all, is that we have vaccinated such a large proportion of the population – and at such speed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 19, 2021, 19:29:35

Have you been reading my correspondence with GWR?  ;D ;D - As you know we have had an appalling record at Melksham so far this month and I have been trying to establish what we should do about a nationwide campaign at the end of this month - hat we can offer in terms of day trips where people are assured they can (a) get there in the morning and (b) get home without hassle / long delay later in the day. In the analysis, as well as a dozen services cancelled due to lack of train crew, over a dozen have been cancelled due to point, signalling and train faults so far this month.

The issue at Melksham can easily be solved by giving back all drivers route knowledge between Bristol and Taunton to enable diversions to take place without affecting Melksham.
Drivers, signallers and planners are frustrated that this option has been taken away creating them a huge headache when issues occur.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 19, 2021, 20:41:20
Agreed - although at the moment the works at Bristol East means there’s a shortage of paths through Temple Meads.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 20, 2021, 06:46:23

Have you been reading my correspondence with GWR?  ;D ;D - As you know we have had an appalling record at Melksham so far this month and I have been trying to establish what we should do about a nationwide campaign at the end of this month - hat we can offer in terms of day trips where people are assured they can (a) get there in the morning and (b) get home without hassle / long delay later in the day. In the analysis, as well as a dozen services cancelled due to lack of train crew, over a dozen have been cancelled due to point, signalling and train faults so far this month.

The issue at Melksham can easily be solved by giving back all drivers route knowledge between Bristol and Taunton to enable diversions to take place without affecting Melksham.
Drivers, signallers and planners are frustrated that this option has been taken away creating them a huge headache when issues occur.


I know our utter frustration when the entire London to West Country passenger traffic is shoe-horned through Melksham, and the powers that be have deemed that the trains passing through won't actually served the stations along the way.  Would love to have that fixed, three possible ways identified:
a) Stop the darned through trains at intermediate stations
b) Send the through trains another way (that's from your suggestion)
c) Put back the second line at least part of the way so that the "important" and our trains can all run!

But - be careful - cancellations are caused by a wide variety of issues and as far as I can tell, not one so far this month has been because the local train has been displaced.  In the wide variety of issues lies an apparent problem - fixing any one thing would not change the whole situation - just a small part of it.   But there is a common theme and it's priorities chosen with limited resources.   I content that where a resource is limited, the service(s) cancelled should be those which are followed by another train - possibly making extra calls - from a few minutes earlier to half an hour or so afterwards.

Yesterday's example was an example of a good decision ... the 06:11 running from Swindon, not being another train for a further 154 minutes.  But then cancelled south of Salisbury, where there's another train 15 minutes behind it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 20, 2021, 07:17:27
But - be careful - cancellations are caused by a wide variety of issues and as far as I can tell, not one so far this month has been because the local train has been displaced. 

On the 16th the 07:35 ex-Westbury and the 08:45 ex-Swindon were sacrificed to allow the 07:04 Paddington to Paignton to divert due to a points failure at Newbury.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 20, 2021, 08:39:04
But - be careful - cancellations are caused by a wide variety of issues and as far as I can tell, not one so far this month has been because the local train has been displaced. 

On the 16th the 07:35 ex-Westbury and the 08:45 ex-Swindon were sacrificed to allow the 07:04 Paddington to Paignton to divert due to a points failure at Newbury.

Ah - thanks - I hadn't realised that was a remote point failure and diversion.

Isn't that 07:35 off Westbury one of just three (out of 17) passenger trains that's supposed to be a high priority - "if something has to be cancelled, it should NOT be this one"??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on July 20, 2021, 11:00:36
.......
Isn't that 07:35 off Westbury one of just three (out of 17) passenger trains that's supposed to be a high priority - "if something has to be cancelled, it should NOT be this one"??

I'd heard about 'priority' trains a long time ago, but guessed that had long since gone.
I believe the Torbay Express along with the Cornish Riviera were priorities.
Along with the Brighton Belle and Atlantic Coast Express on the Southern.

Does this guidance still exist, or all through trains regarded as priority?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 20, 2021, 11:31:48

I know our utter frustration when the entire London to West Country passenger traffic is shoe-horned through Melksham, and the powers that be have deemed that the trains passing through won't actually served the stations along the way.  Would love to have that fixed, three possible ways identified:
a) Stop the darned through trains at intermediate stations
b) Send the through trains another way (that's from your suggestion)
c) Put back the second line at least part of the way so that the "important" and our trains can all run!

But - be careful - cancellations are caused by a wide variety of issues and as far as I can tell, not one so far this month has been because the local train has been displaced.  In the wide variety of issues lies an apparent problem - fixing any one thing would not change the whole situation - just a small part of it.   But there is a common theme and it's priorities chosen with limited resources.   I content that where a resource is limited, the service(s) cancelled should be those which are followed by another train - possibly making extra calls - from a few minutes earlier to half an hour or so afterwards.

Yesterday's example was an example of a good decision ... the 06:11 running from Swindon, not being another train for a further 154 minutes.  But then cancelled south of Salisbury, where there's another train 15 minutes behind it.

A freight train has just sat down at Southcote Junction - expect a few Melksham diversions.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 22, 2021, 15:02:55
Service reductions from Monday

Quote
Revised timetable from Monday 26 July

GWR will be operating a revised timetable from Monday 26 July due to a reduction in the number of available staff. A significant number of staff are having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

Where possible customers will be contacted and advised of cancellations affecting their journey.

Customers wishing to travel can choose to travel on alternative services immediately before or after their booked service or claim a full refund with no admin fee if their service is affected.

Find out more about claiming a refund or rebooking your journey.

Where services can operate, they are expected to be busier than normal. Please check before you travel.

 

Services affected are:

Bristol Area

Bristol-Weston-super-Mare-Taunton. Weekdays and Saturdays. Monday 26th July to Friday 13th August Inclusive.

Bristol-Weston-super-Mare local services will not run, instead the Bristol-Taunton services will call additional at stations between Bristol and Weston-super-Mare.
High Speed train services between London/Weston-super-Mare/Taunton will continue to operate as planned.
Lawrence Hill-Severn Beach.  Saturday 7th August and Monday 9th-Friday 13th August Inclusive.

A Rail Replacement Service will be in operation on these dates.
 

London Paddington-Bristol Parkway.  Weekdays. Monday 26th July to Friday 6th August Inclusive.

The following services will NOT run

09:18 London Paddington-Bristol Parkway
14:15 London Paddington-Bristol Parkway
12:24 Bristol Parkway-London Paddington
17:28 Bristol Parkway-London Paddington
 

London Paddington-Plymouth.

Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

The following services will NOT run

05:49 Plymouth-London Paddington
17:36 London Paddington-Plymouth
Saturdays from 31st July-21st August   

06:55 Plymouth-London Paddington
Sundays from 25th  July-15th  August     

19:04 London Paddington-Plymouth
 

Devon and Cornwall

Looe Branch.  Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

The last train service from Liskeard will be 17:46 and from Looe 18:17. A Rail Replacement Service will then operate the evening timetabled services.

Newquay Branch. Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

 16:15 Par-Newquay will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
17:19 Newquay-Par will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
Gunnislake Branch. Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

21:30 Plymouth-Gunnislake will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
22:22  Gunnislake-Exeter will be operated by a Rail Replacement service between Gunnislake and Plymouth with a connecting train onwards to Exeter
Plymouth-Penzance.  Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

09:50 Penzance-Plymouth will NOT run, however alternative services are available
12:17  Plymouth-Penzance will NOT run, however alternative services are available


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on July 22, 2021, 15:16:11
Service reductions from Monday

Quote
Revised timetable from Monday 26 July

GWR will be operating a revised timetable from Monday 26 July due to a reduction in the number of available staff. A significant number of staff are having to self-isolate following notification from test and trace.

Where possible customers will be contacted and advised of cancellations affecting their journey.

Customers wishing to travel can choose to travel on alternative services immediately before or after their booked service or claim a full refund with no admin fee if their service is affected.

Find out more about claiming a refund or rebooking your journey.

Where services can operate, they are expected to be busier than normal. Please check before you travel.

 

Services affected are:

Bristol Area

Bristol-Weston-super-Mare-Taunton. Weekdays and Saturdays. Monday 26th July to Friday 13th August Inclusive.

Bristol-Weston-super-Mare local services will not run, instead the Bristol-Taunton services will call additional at stations between Bristol and Weston-super-Mare.
High Speed train services between London/Weston-super-Mare/Taunton will continue to operate as planned.
Lawrence Hill-Severn Beach.  Saturday 7th August and Monday 9th-Friday 13th August Inclusive.

A Rail Replacement Service will be in operation on these dates.
 

London Paddington-Bristol Parkway.  Weekdays. Monday 26th July to Friday 6th August Inclusive.

The following services will NOT run

09:18 London Paddington-Bristol Parkway
14:15 London Paddington-Bristol Parkway
12:24 Bristol Parkway-London Paddington
17:28 Bristol Parkway-London Paddington
 

London Paddington-Plymouth.

Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

The following services will NOT run

05:49 Plymouth-London Paddington
17:36 London Paddington-Plymouth
Saturdays from 31st July-21st August   

06:55 Plymouth-London Paddington
Sundays from 25th  July-15th  August     

19:04 London Paddington-Plymouth
 

Devon and Cornwall

Looe Branch.  Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

The last train service from Liskeard will be 17:46 and from Looe 18:17. A Rail Replacement Service will then operate the evening timetabled services.

Newquay Branch. Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

 16:15 Par-Newquay will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
17:19 Newquay-Par will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
Gunnislake Branch. Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

21:30 Plymouth-Gunnislake will be operated by a Rail Replacement Service
22:22  Gunnislake-Exeter will be operated by a Rail Replacement service between Gunnislake and Plymouth with a connecting train onwards to Exeter
Plymouth-Penzance.  Mon 26th July- Fri 20th August.

09:50 Penzance-Plymouth will NOT run, however alternative services are available
12:17  Plymouth-Penzance will NOT run, however alternative services are available

"TransWilts

We will be rolling a dice each morning, and services defined as follows:

Roll 1-3 - All services before 12 noon cancelled

Roll 4 or 5 - All services after 12 noon cancelled

Roll 6 - All services throughout the day cancelled, with The Wurzels performing live and socially-distanced at the Hub Cafe as compensation, pingdemic permitting."


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 22, 2021, 17:17:58
Now also affecting GTR and Southern also from Monday.

Anyone note how many weeks are affected? And how long self-isolation is meant to be? (10 days)
So why are these for 3 or 4 *weeks*?

They might be fully staffed in less than 2....(unlikely, but a tad premature?)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2021, 07:27:02
"Essential transport" is one of those groups covered;

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-07-22/what-are-the-list-of-jobs-exempt-from-covid-isolation


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 23, 2021, 07:54:11
Ohhh, “for work purposes only, and return home straight away”

Would You? Is it mandatory that you do? Many might prefer 10 days off on full pay?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2021, 09:16:51
Ohhh, “for work purposes only, and return home straight away”

Would You? Is it mandatory that you do? Many might prefer 10 days off on full pay?

I'd like to think I would, and I would hope many will in a time of national need.

Question of character I guess?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 31, 2021, 07:38:04
Looks like a difficult day for those wanting to travel to or from Cornwall to London today with a number of cancellations and very shortened services due to crew shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 14, 2021, 07:31:43
Combination of "short notice timetable changes" and crew shortage look like making it a chaotic day - 52 cancellations and over 100 "alterations" listed already.

No doubt the motorways will be busy.

I guess the crew shortage situation should resolve from next week with the isolation rules changing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 14, 2021, 08:05:33
The over-run of works through BRI might have something to do with these changes too. No trains through there today


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on August 14, 2021, 22:23:09
Away from Bristol, I feel sorry for anybody trying to travel west from Newbury today.

I travelled up from Exeter to Bedwyn early this (Saturday 14/08) morning to phot 45596 'Bahamas'. Getting there was easy - getting home not quite so!

I had a seat reservation on the 1315 from Newbury back to Exeter, but on arriving (fortunately very early) back at Newbury, I was greeted by the 'Cancelled' message on the CIS and advised to catch the 1515. Fortunately, I was able to travel home via Reading, but I understand that there were others wishing to catch that train. I hear that the 1515 was similarly cancelled.

What puzzles me, however, is that both the 1315 and the 1515 - despite appearing on the CIS as 'Cancelled' - disappeared entirely from Real Time Trains.

Edit - grahame - NBY PAD EXD - mention to stop 'em expanding in the URL

See here all reported 'departures' from Newbury towards Exeter (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:NBY/from/gb-nr:PAD/to/gb-nr:EXD/2021-08-14/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt)

Can anybody explain?

*** Edited to add screen print as the url was corrupted on posting! ****


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 15, 2021, 00:48:00
Can anybody explain?

In RTT's detailed filtering options there's a button marked "CAN". Selecting that shows the missing trains, marked as "Cancel". Now, obviously there are trains marked as cancelled that get shown with that button unselected, but not all of them. Why? Now that really is a puzzle.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 15, 2021, 06:56:14
Away from Bristol, I feel sorry for anybody trying to travel west from Newbury today.

I travelled up from Exeter to Bedwyn early this (Saturday 14/08) morning to phot 45596 'Bahamas'. Getting there was easy - getting home not quite so!

I had a seat reservation on the 1315 from Newbury back to Exeter, but on arriving (fortunately very early) back at Newbury, I was greeted by the 'Cancelled' message on the CIS and advised to catch the 1515. Fortunately, I was able to travel home via Reading, but I understand that there were others wishing to catch that train. I hear that the 1515 was similarly cancelled.

Almost all the WoE semi fasts were cancelled yesterday due to traincrew shortages with the fasts stopping additionally at Pewsey, Westbury to cover but NOT at Newbury.

This made me think about passengers wanting to travel West from Newbury and vice versa. They would have to go via Reading adding quite a bit of time and inconvenience to their journey. Okay, this might not have affected many passengers but it would have done for some.

Would there have been staff on hand at Newbury to advise passengers to go via Reading rather than wait two hours for the next train that also ended up being cancelled?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: CyclingSid on August 15, 2021, 08:19:05
I went out to Bedwyn yesterday. Seemed odd the racegoers were being directed to Newbury and then to catch a train back to the racecourse.
Cycled fro Bedwyn to Swindon.
Long wait at Swindon, seemed majority of trains to Reading were cancelled, and possibly elsewhere. The other half said there were a lot of cancellations from Paddington.
Swindon station looks a mess. I presume that NR thinks it is cheaper to let the wood rot and replace it rather than paint it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on August 15, 2021, 08:55:23
This RIG (Railway Improvement Group) agreement https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre-docman/12813-2021-06-efa-publication/file.html will have a big impact on the time table, the frequency of trains, the number of carriages, levels of staff at stations, in control rooms, signal boxes, maintenance teams.

The RIG is not a quasi sub political party but a "joint" rail industry group of Toc's, FoC's and Network Rail, the Trade Unions

Be prepared as the rail industry is likely to be haemorrhaging a high level of skilled and experienced staff at levels not seen since the mid 1990's this could impact on the quality of the service offered


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightonedee on August 15, 2021, 10:34:51
Thanks ET for making that available.

As I have feared for quite a while, covid looks to be heralding a "back to the 1960s" era on the railways. The only mention of growth is reference to encouraging leisure travel, but it's difficult to see how thinning out the timetable to match current demand is compatable with that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 15, 2021, 12:22:00
Thanks ET for making that available.

Yes, the staff have been made aware of the RIRG for a while, and some of the likely content, but that's the first official document I've seen.

Sobering stuff...but it's been coming.

Perhaps this is worthy of its own topic if the moderators agree?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on August 15, 2021, 14:48:59
Thanks ET for making that available.

As I have feared for quite a while, covid looks to be heralding a "back to the 1960s" era on the railways. The only mention of growth is reference to encouraging leisure travel, but it's difficult to see how thinning out the timetable to match current demand is compatable with that.

Ironic to note that while the RIG Agreement was being published, I have been working on various bus service improvement proposals - And if you had told the 2006 "Save The Train" Lee that this would be the case in 2021, he'd have thought you stark staring bonkers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 15, 2021, 16:37:07
Quote
In summary, the impact of the above will mean that we shall see reduced services and a change in passenger behaviours in the way in which they use the rail network

Does that mean "there may no longer be a train when they want it, so they may drive", or am I being unkind in how I read that?  Is someone assuming that people who find there's no longer a local train available when they need to travel will get a bus or taxi, or drive to a nearby railhead?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 15, 2021, 17:00:08
I guess it depends on how much the government wish to pay to keep the railways running, how much patience they have in waiting for passenger numbers to recover, and how GBR sets up its stall.

Best outcome is a reduction in commuter trains and capacity, but the off-peak service and network of stations and routes remaining as they are.

Worst outcome is lots of station and route closures in more marginal areas, and thinning out of services elsewhere, as well as the above.

Those with a vested interest best don their lobbying boots!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 15, 2021, 17:40:36
My feeling is that peak will lose services to more look like the off-peak, but should commuting pick up that flexibility will remain such that an additional service can be added when shown necessary. I doubt they’ll be consudering closures of any kind, nor removal of any off-peak services

What this might mean for the re-opening project, who knows. They might publish a minimum business case requirement perhaps higher than currently used as a basis for continiung any identified project

But it looks as though 7 day working is going to become the norm….


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 16, 2021, 06:39:26
Only 6 cancellations listed due to crew shortage (so far!) today.

Given that the isolation rules change today and there is no need for those who are double jabbed to isolate, the crew shortage problem would, one would imagine, be much less of an issue.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 16, 2021, 07:24:15
Only 6 cancellations listed due to crew shortage (so far!) today.

Two of which - of course - are on the TransWilts line ... no 07:53 - never mind - next northbound train at 10:02.   Not exactly unused - I drove down to the station at 12:30 on Saturday to check the rubbish bins (station adopter, car boot sale at the Melksham Hub meant we could have had an issue) - and I was met by a flood of people coming off the trains from Trowbridge walking up Station Approach ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on August 16, 2021, 12:19:00
Worst outcome is lots of station and route closures in more marginal areas, and thinning out of services elsewhere, as well as the above.

Those with a vested interest best don their lobbying boots!

If by "vested interest" you mean having a train station that's open, with a truly appropriate regular frequency service that isn't cancelled at the first sign of operational angst, and - whisper it quietly - maybe even some connecting local bus services, then sign me up for a big dollop of "vested interest", with afters to follow!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 16, 2021, 19:21:57
Thanks ET for making that available.

Yes, the staff have been made aware of the RIRG for a while, and some of the likely content, but that's the first official document I've seen.

Sobering stuff...but it's been coming.

Perhaps this is worthy of its own topic if the moderators agree?

The rather bullish comments from government and the RDG have provoked the obvious response from the RMT (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-for-halt-to-planned-cuts/).
Quote
RMT calls for halt to planned cuts as rail minister predicts a full return to normal train passenger numbers.

RAIL UNION RMT has called for a reversal of planned cuts across Network Rail, TFL and the train operating companies after the rail minister said today that the Government are expecting passenger numbers to return to pre-COVID levels as the economy gets back into gear.

General Secretary Mick Lynch said;

"With the rail minister saying today that passenger use is predicted to fully return to pre-COVID levels there is absolutely no need for the government or the employers to be pressing for service and job cuts across the train operators, TFL and Network Rail.

"Instead the government should be promoting the railways and the growth of public transport use while at the same time securing green jobs in a new, low carbon economy. No employers or politicians should be using Covid as a smokescreen for cuts on the national railway and Transport for London."

And there's a campaign brochure too (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/no-cuts-at-network-rail/).

There was further reporting today that Network Rail has been canvassing office staff for a voluntary redundancy scheme. Avoiding the existing arrangements has produced more union hostility (though not so far from TSSA).

And yes, discussions on a number of threads have converged on this subject (or this subject is spread over several thread, if you prefer).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on August 17, 2021, 16:09:16
Thanks ET for making that available.

Yes, the staff have been made aware of the RIRG for a while, and some of the likely content, but that's the first official document I've seen.

Sobering stuff...but it's been coming.

Perhaps this is worthy of its own topic if the moderators agree?

The rather bullish comments from government and the RDG have provoked the obvious response from the RMT (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-for-halt-to-planned-cuts/).
Quote
RMT calls for halt to planned cuts as rail minister predicts a full return to normal train passenger numbers.

RAIL UNION RMT has called for a reversal of planned cuts across Network Rail, TFL and the train operating companies after the rail minister said today that the Government are expecting passenger numbers to return to pre-COVID levels as the economy gets back into gear.

General Secretary Mick Lynch said;

"With the rail minister saying today that passenger use is predicted to fully return to pre-COVID levels there is absolutely no need for the government or the employers to be pressing for service and job cuts across the train operators, TFL and Network Rail.

"Instead the government should be promoting the railways and the growth of public transport use while at the same time securing green jobs in a new, low carbon economy. No employers or politicians should be using Covid as a smokescreen for cuts on the national railway and Transport for London."

And there's a campaign brochure too (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/no-cuts-at-network-rail/).

There was further reporting today that Network Rail has been canvassing office staff for a voluntary redundancy scheme. Avoiding the existing arrangements has produced more union hostility (though not so far from TSSA).

And yes, discussions on a number of threads have converged on this subject (or this subject is spread over several thread, if you prefer).

The process at the moment if for Executive leaders to actively encourage people to leave the railway through a 'special voluntary severance scheme' unlike normal redundancies the job is not necessarily being made redundant, that is it can be advertised and filled when the person leave.

The Unions have question many of the railway companies what is the future structure, the answer is they will review the structure once they know who is leaving !!!!!!

The cash being offered has yet to have its tax status confirmed the words used by the RIRG are woolly to say the least and not that generous



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 20, 2021, 07:20:55
Not a good start to the day for those traveling between London - Chippenham and Bath.

https://www.journeycheck.com/greatwesternrailway/

Quote
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Bath Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Bath Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:00 20/08.

Customer Advice
Replacement road transport services are conveying passengers between Swindon and Bath Spa via Chippenham in both directions until further notice.

South Western Railway are conveying passengers between London Waterloo and Exeter St Davids in both directions until further notice.

Underground services are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice.

Additional Information
Customers are advised to catch the next service towards Swindon where replacement buses will be in place calling at Chippenham and Bath Spa.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2021, 08:02:49
Now pushed out to 1000 with more cancellations listed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2021, 10:39:27
Now pushed out to 1000 with more cancellations listed.

And now 1100 - bit puzzling this - GWR website is still warning that "due to a significant number of our team having to self isolate we have had to make changes to our timetable"- as of Monday, those who are double jabbed have no need to self isolate - do GWR staff have an issue with vaccine hesitancy, or is the chap who updates the website on holiday?

...........or are there too many staff on holiday to run the service?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2021, 10:46:01
You would have thought the situation would have eased.   However one factor may be that while those double jabbed no longer have to isolate if they are negative there may be a delay in getting a test.  Is a lateral flow test sufficient for GWR's purposes or will they want a PCR one?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 20, 2021, 11:44:49
You still have to self-isolate if you are pinged owing to being in close proximity (for 15 minutes or so) - it's only the venue check-ins ping that the new rules apply to.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on August 20, 2021, 12:06:03
Another odd one: 12:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 13:14 will no longer call at Slough.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on August 20, 2021, 12:35:34
You still have to self-isolate if you are pinged owing to being in close proximity (for 15 minutes or so) - it's only the venue check-ins ping that the new rules apply to.

Well, what the main advice page says is:
Quote
You should also self-isolate straight away if:

    you've tested positive for COVID-19 – this means you have the virus
    someone you live with has symptoms or tested positive (unless you are not required to self-isolate – check below if this applies to you)
    you've been told to self-isolate following contact with someone who tested positive – find out what to do if you're told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace or the NHS COVID-19 app

The same message occurs in the next two pages reached  by links frorm there. But the more detailed explanation (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-how-it-works#exemptions-from-self-isolation-for-contacts) (not instructions) says:
Quote
Exemptions from self-isolation for contacts

You are not required to self-isolate if you are notified you have had close contact with someone with COVID-19 and any of the following apply:

    you are fully vaccinated
    you are below the age of 18 years and 6 months
    you have taken part in or are currently part of an approved COVID-19 vaccine trial
    you are not able to get vaccinated for medical reasons

You are fully vaccinated 14 days after your final dose of an MHRA-approved vaccine that was administered in the United Kingdom. This is to allow for an antibody response to develop. If you were fully vaccinated at the time you had close contact with a positive case, you will not be required to self-isolate.

NHS Test and Trace will contact you to:

    let you know that you have been identified as a contact
    check whether you are legally required to self-isolate
    provide you with advice



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2021, 12:38:19
I have to say my only interaction with Test & Trace was not good.

Having phoned me his first question was “What’s your phone number please”

He then proceeded to call me “mate” during the rest of the call.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2021, 12:54:16
Another odd one: 12:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 13:14 will no longer call at Slough.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Stop taken out due to a late start.  Looks like a driver wasn’t available at the booked departure time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2021, 07:37:39
Looks like another meltdown day, all cancelled, a lot of short running too......given the relaxation in isolation rules, I'd be very interested in the explanation - once again, a big leisure travel day, but you can't rely on the trains to get you there;

05:40 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 08:52
06:01 Westbury to Portsmouth Harbour due 07:54
07:22 Liskeard to Looe due 07:53
07:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 09:05
07:55 Looe to Liskeard due 08:23
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 13:29
08:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:28
09:04 Plymouth to Paignton due 10:09
09:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:14
09:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 12:34
09:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 11:28
10:02 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 11:25
10:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 11:37
10:15 Bristol Temple Meads to Taunton due 11:05
10:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:28
10:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:59
11:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:37
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 14:53
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:28
11:32 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 12:25
11:43 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 13:06
11:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:59
12:02 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 13:25
12:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 13:37
12:43 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 14:07
12:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 14:59
13:15 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 13:35
13:43 Bath Spa to London Paddington due 15:07
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:04 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:23
15:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:35
15:14 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 16:26
15:15 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 15:41
15:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:11
15:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:12
15:39 Swansea to Carmarthen due 16:22
16:39 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 17:57
16:40 Paignton to Exmouth due 18:22
17:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:37
17:13 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 17:41
17:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 19:30
17:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:05
17:36 Barnstaple to Exeter Central due 18:57
17:50 Paignton to Exmouth due 19:21
17:58 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth due 19:07
18:04 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 18:24
18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:33
18:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 20:59
19:02 London Paddington to Bath Spa due 20:25
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:37
19:12 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 19:40
19:17 Exeter Central to Barnstaple due 20:34
19:26 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:15
19:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:45
20:02 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 22:00
20:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 21:36
20:08 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:43
20:22 Swansea to Bristol Parkway due 21:50
20:40 Barnstaple to Exeter St Davids due 21:50
21:40 Taunton to London Paddington due 00:30
22:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 23:50
23:30 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway due 01:00



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2021, 07:51:25
Homing in on the list above:
London - Bath
London - Bristol
London - Cheltenham

Are the routes mainly affected today with some large gaps in service, 4 hours in the case of Bath-London. I’m sure buses will be laid on. Let’s hope we see some reinstatements later. Could be wrong, but it looks to me like it’s London based train crew availability that’s the issue.

Surprise of the day, all the London - Paignton trains appear to be running! As are most London - SW services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on August 21, 2021, 07:57:00
It is not just the pingdemic and self isolation that is causing a challenge

Many of the 'frontline' staff and indeed many of background staff have work right through the Covid lockdowns often covering for staff that were off sick and have not taken much in the way of holiday in that time.

Like everyone else railway staff are taking a holiday with their families.  The senior management are acutely aware of the work pressure staff have been under and that allowing staff holiday during school holiday time is essential, the consequence is staff resourcing at the moment is stretched and services will suffer.

The high risk of saying that staff should be force to take holidays to suit the travelling public is you end up with high levels of absenteeism over which there is no managerial control; I am sure management will have worked with their teams to manage holidays but with only a 6 week school holiday it does not leave much room to manoeuvre


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 21, 2021, 08:10:40
For which I for one do have much sympathy. Holiday accruement possibly carried over from last year in the pandemic circumstances may need taking this year too. Even though I have a RDG/BRI trip arranged today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2021, 08:21:19
Quote
Surprise of the day, all the London - Paignton trains appear to be running!
Well not quite:
Quote
08:35 London Paddington to Paignton due 12:05 will be started from Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at London Paddington, Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton and Tiverton Parkway.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
The 09:04 covering Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary stops.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2021, 08:33:53
It is not just the pingdemic and self isolation that is causing a challenge

Many of the 'frontline' staff and indeed many of background staff have work right through the Covid lockdowns often covering for staff that were off sick and have not taken much in the way of holiday in that time.

Like everyone else railway staff are taking a holiday with their families.  The senior management are acutely aware of the work pressure staff have been under and that allowing staff holiday during school holiday time is essential, the consequence is staff resourcing at the moment is stretched and services will suffer.

The high risk of saying that staff should be force to take holidays to suit the travelling public is you end up with high levels of absenteeism over which there is no managerial control; I am sure management will have worked with their teams to manage holidays but with only a 6 week school holiday it does not leave much room to manoeuvre

Schools have been on holiday for a month, most return in just over a week - surely these staff holidays could have been spread out more evenly to avoid this type of chaos?

The "high risk", is that once again, the message is that you can't rely on the train, and this is at a time when the railways desperately need to appeal to leisure travellers given the amount of business travel that is being lost - once again, people will look at all the cancellations and get in their cars.

We're often told by others on this forum that we should choose the train and not fly or drive - BA have 311 flights timetabled today - 311 are operating.

This scenario has been building for months for every business in the land. Workforce management should be up to dealing with it. In most cases, it seems to have done so successfully.

If your final paragraph is suggesting that staff will take unauthorised absence if they are not give the holidays they want, that's an entirely different matter altogether.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 21, 2021, 09:00:38
Most airline staff have been on a year of furlough & thus hsve had plenty of family time whereas the rail staff have worked right through! You’re comparing apples with pears….

Indeed the schools have been on break for a month, & the TOCs I’msure have tried their best to schedule staff holidays across this period,. Why wouldn’t they? Just as you’ve thought about this, doesn’t mean those at the working end haven’t.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on August 21, 2021, 09:30:45
It is not just the pingdemic and self isolation that is causing a challenge

Many of the 'frontline' staff and indeed many of background staff have work right through the Covid lockdowns often covering for staff that were off sick and have not taken much in the way of holiday in that time.

Like everyone else railway staff are taking a holiday with their families.  The senior management are acutely aware of the work pressure staff have been under and that allowing staff holiday during school holiday time is essential, the consequence is staff resourcing at the moment is stretched and services will suffer.

The high risk of saying that staff should be force to take holidays to suit the travelling public is you end up with high levels of absenteeism over which there is no managerial control; I am sure management will have worked with their teams to manage holidays but with only a 6 week school holiday it does not leave much room to manoeuvre

Schools have been on holiday for a month, most return in just over a week - surely these staff holidays could have been spread out more evenly to avoid this type of chaos?

The "high risk", is that once again, the message is that you can't rely on the train, and this is at a time when the railways desperately need to appeal to leisure travellers given the amount of business travel that is being lost - once again, people will look at all the cancellations and get in their cars.

We're often told by others on this forum that we should choose the train and not fly or drive - BA have 311 flights timetabled today - 311 are operating.

This scenario has been building for months for every business in the land. Workforce management should be up to dealing with it. In most cases, it seems to have done so successfully.

Yes it has and managers have been working with staff to manage holidays, they are also very mindful of staff burnout and the lack of pay rise this year and potential of redundancies hence going heavy handed over holidays would add to the current creation of unease in the industry



If your final paragraph is suggesting that staff will take unauthorised absence if they are not give the holidays they want, that's an entirely different matter altogether.

I just said it is a risk especially if managers act too heavy handed, also staff will be reluctant to work rest days.

Railway women and men are professional and responsible in their work and know full well they provide a service which millions of people depend on, but the do need a break as many of them the comfort and covid safety of working from home during lockdown was not an option


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2021, 10:17:17
All fair points - but I'm sure you don't underestimate the damage that days like this do to the public's perception of the railways as a realistic alternative to the motorway (or the runway!)  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2021, 10:25:11
Indeed the schools have been on break for a month, & the TOCs I’msure have tried their best to schedule staff holidays across this period,. Why wouldn’t they? Just as you’ve thought about this, doesn’t mean those at the working end haven’t.
And it would appear they have been able to succeed in having enough staff to run their services…except GWR. Just looking at various TOC Journeychecks around the country there are few cancellations related to traincrew unavailability.

I suspect even without Covid there would still be a list of train crew cancellations today. How do I come to that conclusion? Because it’s been a problem with this TOC for one reason or another ever since I joined this forum back in 2006.

Covid is just the latest one to add to the list. After all these years for whatever reason the GW franchise still does not have enough staff to run the TOC and yet pre Covid it was one of First’s most profitable parts of their business.

To think First are going to be awarded another six years to run the GW network  ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: jamestheredengine on August 21, 2021, 10:28:59
[...]
19:26 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:15
[...]
20:22 Swansea to Bristol Parkway due 21:50
That's particularly stunning. Not only cancelling the last train of the night, but the one before it as well for good measure.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 21, 2021, 11:01:29
Schools have been on holiday for a month, most return in just over a week - surely these staff holidays could have been spread out more evenly to avoid this type of chaos?

The "high risk", is that once again, the message is that you can't rely on the train, and this is at a time when the railways desperately need to appeal to leisure travellers given the amount of business travel that is being lost - once again, people will look at all the cancellations and get in their cars.

We're often told by others on this forum that we should choose the train and not fly or drive - BA have 311 flights timetabled today - 311 are operating.

This scenario has been building for months for every business in the land. Workforce management should be up to dealing with it. In most cases, it seems to have done so successfully.

If your final paragraph is suggesting that staff will take unauthorised absence if they are not give the holidays they want, that's an entirely different matter altogether.

Your comparison with BA is not strictly fair.  BA stopped operating essentially during the pandemic and so their staff have had a chance for a rest.  GW staff have been working all through the pandemic.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2021, 11:23:13
Quote
Surprise of the day, all the London - Paignton trains appear to be running!
Nope, some cancellations now appearing on the Paigntons and other SW services too. The cancellation list is growing. :(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on August 21, 2021, 11:33:51
The IEP 5 car sets - when running coupled as 2 x 5 ,does each need a TM before it can run?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2021, 11:46:27
The IEP 5 car sets - when running coupled as 2 x 5 ,does each need a TM before it can run?

No.  The second set just needs a competent person, which could be a lead customer host for example.

BTW I’ll respond to some of the other points raised today a bit later, when I have more time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 21, 2021, 16:09:05
This issue over staff holidays.

Staff holidays are rostered, there isn’t more traincrew rostered holiday during the Summer than at any other time of the year. The amount of guaranteed ad-hoc leave also remains unchanged throughout the year.
The High Summer timetable ends soon so staff availability will increase. Training is back on so additional drivers will soon be passed out and I imagine it won’t be long before other restrictions will be lifted. During lockdown some drivers may not have worked over a certain route and have therefore lost their competence. Having 2 allowed back in the cab will allow those training requirements to be fulfilled.
Then you’ll also have staff you have had Covid and have returned to work but are working restricted hours because the virus has left them exhausted.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 21, 2021, 17:05:35
If the present staff shortages ARE due to staff now taking leave that was postponed due to the pandemic, then I have some sympathy with both the staff members and with the company.
OTOH, GWR have a poor record over staffing for the Summer holiday season, since long before the pandemic.

Are there any firm plans including dates for having enough staff to run the advertised service ? Remembering that the present advertised service is the Covid mode timetable and requires fewer staff than the pre-pandemic timetable.

And yes, I and many others call for less flying and driving and more use of trains in order to reduce climate changing carbon dioxide emissions.
It is hard to recommend GWR services for leisure travel to the West country at present. I wonder if next Summer will be any better ?

The average passenger is probably not aware of all the details, but simply knows that GWR services are unreliable, overcrowded, and best avoided.
And meanwhile, the limited SWR services that provide an alternative to some parts of "GWR territory" are to be withdrawn.

And as has been said, airlines are operating as normal.





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2021, 17:24:35
I totally get why TaplowGreen has raised the following issues...here are my thoughts.

Schools have been on holiday for a month, most return in just over a week - surely these staff holidays could have been spread out more evenly to avoid this type of chaos?

Appreciating that 'Electric Train' comes at it from more of a Network Rail perspective, but as 'a-driver' has said there are limits to the number of people allowed on holiday in train crew grades on GWR.  These have not changed this summer. 

You have a maximum number of people allowed 'Block Leave' at any one time (traincrew have to group 4, 5, or 6 six weeks of their holiday in week or two week blocks), and a maximum number of people who will be guaranteed ad-hoc leave (whatever remains after block leave is allocated) on any given day.  There is a thing called the 'depot calculator' agreed with the company and unions which decides the numbers of each which is based on the depot establishment.

Any additional days off on top are only granted if the shift can be covered and no trains are cancelled - known as 'subject to service requirements'.  On summer Saturday's it is extremely likely that the maximum allowed will be off, but to repeat no more staff are being allowed off than are allowed off usually.

The "high risk", is that once again, the message is that you can't rely on the train, and this is at a time when the railways desperately need to appeal to leisure travellers given the amount of business travel that is being lost - once again, people will look at all the cancellations and get in their cars.

Agreed.  I would comment that on certain routes, on Friday's, Saturday's and Sunday's it looks like leisure travel is more popular than usual this year thanks to staycationers.

We're often told by others on this forum that we should choose the train and not fly or drive - BA have 311 flights timetabled today - 311 are operating.

This scenario has been building for months for every business in the land. Workforce management should be up to dealing with it. In most cases, it seems to have done so successfully.

You often state or imply that other companies are organised better than GWR or 'the railway'.  Others have made valid comments on this particular example.  I'll add that I don't have knowledge of the inner workings of BA, and if I have misunderstood something I apologise, but the interweb says that, pre-lockdown they operated about 850 flights a day*.

So, if they've operated 311 today then that's around 37% of their pre-COVID total.  Presumably there's no demand for more?

If the DfT were telling GWR to operate 37% of its pre-COVID services then I think it's fair to say they'd achieve that quite easily, but it would cause massive capacity issues and general uproar.  As it is, they are telling GWR to operate, and I don't have the exact figures, but around 90% of the pre-COVID services.  With today's cancellations that would probably equate to still running well over 80% of the pre-COVID timetable.

You could argue that they should 'manage expectations' by withdrawing trains from the timetable they can't guarantee running, and indeed a few more were withdrawn recently with that aim in mind.  But then you have opposing opinions such as Broadgage who thinks the railway is unnecessarily in 'Covid mode' and should schedule more trains.  And, if you play it too safe you might end up with trains in sidings and crews that could have worked them at a time when the most that can run should run.  Classic 'rock and hard place'.

* https://www.businessinsider.com/british-airways-grounds-nearly-all-flights-as-pilots-strike-2019-9?r=US&IR=T



And it would appear they have been able to succeed in having enough staff to run their services…except GWR. Just looking at various TOC Journeychecks around the country there are few cancellations related to traincrew unavailability.

Chiltern have been struggling badly recently.  Eleven cancellations listed for the remainder of the day, which is a higher percentage than GWR.  WMR have also struggled badly.



Perhaps it's time for Graham or Bob to coax Mark Hopwood onto the forum for another one of his sessions?  He could then apologise and explain in more detail.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 21, 2021, 17:29:20
Perhaps it's time for Graham or Bob to coax Mark Hopwood onto the forum for another one of his sessions? 

Watch the space ...  ;D ... plans are already afoot to meet your objective in a few weeks ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2021, 17:53:44
Perhaps it's time for Graham or Bob to coax Mark Hopwood onto the forum for another one of his sessions? 

Watch the space ...  ;D ... plans are already afoot to meet your objective in a few weeks ...

As long as Broadgage is banned from mentioning buffets!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 21, 2021, 18:26:50
Perhaps it's time for Graham or Bob to coax Mark Hopwood onto the forum for another one of his sessions? 

Watch the space ...  ;D ... plans are already afoot to meet your objective in a few weeks ...

As long as Broadgage is banned from mentioning buffets!  ;)

I MIGHT be tempted to mention the subject, but probably not since any return of buffets will be a matter for GBR or the next operator. GWR have already said "no way" to buffets.
More likely is that I will mention the miserable failure of the trolley service to achieve ANY of the promises made.
And the ongoing staff shortage, and if any firm plans exist to rectify this.
And the failed IET project in general. It is now some years since the new units came into use, and short formations are still the norm, despite the reduced timetable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2021, 18:35:25
Industry Insider - don't poke the bear!!!  ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyN on August 21, 2021, 21:43:38
Quote
And the ongoing staff shortage, and if any firm plans exist to rectify this.

Looking at the SWR and Scotrail threads the DFT plan to solve the problem by cutting the service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: jamestheredengine on August 21, 2021, 21:54:08
Quote
And the ongoing staff shortage, and if any firm plans exist to rectify this.

Looking at the SWR and Scotrail threads the DFT plan to solve the problem by cutting the service.
At least SWR cut services with some redundancy. It would be reasonable for GWR to cancel the Ealing-Greenford branch (use London Buses) and the Slough-Windsor Branch (use SWR and change at Staines for Reading). Instead we get widespread disruption, but a perfect service on those two Beeching-dodging branch lines. If there's any shortage in staff, those two branches should be the first things to go.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2021, 00:23:00
Unfortunately neither service is generally worked by drivers that sign the routes where there were shortages today. 

I may have mentioned before that I believe greater flexibility on what drivers sign in terms of traction and routes is a good way of improving efficiency.  Not that a Reading driver is ever likely to be able to cover a St. Ives shuttle, but there could, and should, be greater flexibility.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 22, 2021, 01:45:29
Quote
And the ongoing staff shortage, and if any firm plans exist to rectify this.

Looking at the SWR and Scotrail threads the DFT plan to solve the problem by cutting the service.

Indeed, and a cynic might even suspect that GWR know that lack of rolling stock is liable to be a long term issue, and therefor thought that there was little point in training drivers and train managers to work non available trains.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 22, 2021, 07:44:46
I am so glad that you aren’t in a managerial position at GWR. Your assumptions, frankly are complete rubbish sometimes


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Oxonhutch on August 22, 2021, 07:55:37
irony
/ˈʌɪrəni/
noun
1.   the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.

hyperbole
/hʌɪˈpəːbəli/

noun:
1.   exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Both humorous devices to get across a serious point.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 22, 2021, 08:14:14
Hyperbolics


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 22, 2021, 12:37:03
Quote
And the ongoing staff shortage, and if any firm plans exist to rectify this.

Looking at the SWR and Scotrail threads the DFT plan to solve the problem by cutting the service.

Indeed, and a cynic might even suspect that GWR know that lack of rolling stock is liable to be a long term issue, and therefor thought that there was little point in training drivers and train managers to work non available trains.

Plenty of trainee drivers coming through the system.

In the next roster/timetable change I guess there’s the ability to tighten up some of the inefficiencies in crew diagrams which inevitably come about when you are forced to make significant changes as a result of the IET issues at short notice


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on August 27, 2021, 16:17:47
I have noticed recently that GWR have not been showing many cancellations on Journey Check in the morning giving, me at least, fresh hope but only to find about double the number for the evening appearing by the afternoon.    Exeter seem to be pretty hard hit in the evening.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 27, 2021, 16:26:33
Yup - if the problem is annual leave being taken, surely ALL the day's cancellations could be posted at start of the day. I appreciate that a few crew might not phone in sick until due to start their shift - but at least this would cover the vast majority of cancellations


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on August 27, 2021, 19:58:08
I'm guessing on more 'in the know' regular passengers would think to look at JourneyCheck before they leave.
If it's not always reliable, there is little point in its existence.
Surely most wouldn't even know about it?
Savvy passengers would use real time apps perhaps


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 27, 2021, 20:11:20
At point ofvtravel, journeychevk is geberally reliable - but if all the days cancellations could be posted earlier then anyone needing to be somewhere at a given time can plan earlier to travel earlier & not get caught out


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 27, 2021, 21:55:12
On the flip side, it’s been frustrating to see how many cancellations are posted early on and then retracted later in the day.  You only have to look at the transwilts thread to see how often that happens.  Much can happen during the day to mean short notice cancellations (and short notice reinstatements) end up making the information supplied unreliable at best in terms of planning.

I continually ask myself if journeycheck is fit for purpose.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 27, 2021, 21:56:32
I suspect the only people who actually use Journeycheck reside on this forum  ;D

After all, where would this now 115 page thread be without it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 28, 2021, 07:39:29
Let's hope journeycheck is wrong today......otherwise;

Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run on all lines.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until 14:00 28/08.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 28, 2021, 08:36:55
Not only Cheltenham services. Trains between Bath and Swindon reduced to every two hours this morning. Not great if traveling to/from London from either Bath or Chippenham.

I can only assume they aren’t running direct services between Bath and London this weekend to cover running extra trains for the Reading Festival.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 28, 2021, 11:38:33
Trains between Bath and Swindon reduced to every two hours this morning. Not great if traveling to/from London from either Bath or Chippenham.
UPDATE:
Bath - Swindon shuttles now reduced to every 2 even 3 hours  :o for the rest of the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 28, 2021, 13:19:29
UPDATE:
Bath - Swindon shuttles now reduced to every 2 even 3 hours  :o for the rest of the day.

UPDATE 2:

Now NONE
Quote
Alterations to services between Swindon and Bath Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Bath Spa:
Train services running through these stations have been suspended. Disruption is expected until the end of the day to Bath.

Chippenham passengers can use the Transwilts services.

Customer Advice

We are unable to operate trains between Swindon and Bath Spa due to train crew unavailability.

Limited replacement road transport is available between Swindon and Bath Spa, calling at Chippenham. The buses will be busy in both directions and you may not be able to board the next bus, with long waiting times at the stations expected.

You are advised not to travel between Swindon, Chippenham and Bath Spa today as you may not be able to complete your journey.

Replacement road transport services are conveying passengers between Swindon and Bath Spa in both directions until further notice.

So GWR have no crew to not even be able to run this shuttle service? Which is in effect part an Intercity service between London and Bath. Well it was.

I think the best bet is to take the train to Bristol Parkway and change there for a Cardiff-Portsmouth or Gloucester-Westbury/Weymouth service.

Chippenham passengers can use the Transwilts.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 28, 2021, 13:37:22
At least Bath isn't a particularly popular place to visit over the summer!  :(


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 28, 2021, 16:39:25
Well, some better news from the GWR Twitter feed. We have trains again!

Quote
From 1635 we are able to reinstate a 2 hourly service between Swindon & Bath Spa

✅1635 SWI to Bath is running

❌1747 SWI to Bath is cancelled

✅1835 SWI to Bath is running

❌1953 SWI to Bath is cancelled

✅2034 SWI to Bath is running

✅2102 Paddington to Bath is running

Quote
From 1748 we're able to reinstate some services between Bath and Swindon

❌1648 Bath to SWI is cancelled

✅17:48 Bath to SWI is running

❌1848 Bath to SWI is cancelled

✅1948 Bath to SWI is running

❌2048 Bath to SWI is cancelled

✅2208 Bath to SWI is running


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on August 28, 2021, 21:45:27
How much advance notice of a cancellation do GWR have to give to avoid paying compensation through Delay Repay?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 29, 2021, 06:20:46
How much advance notice of a cancellation do GWR have to give to avoid paying compensation through Delay Repay?

I believe it's a couple of days.  You set me thinking

0. First there's the timetable
1. Then it get changed well in advance (12 weeks, haha) for scheduled engineering and special events
2. Then it gets revised a few days ahead for late planned (has to be done next weekend) engineering
3. Then it gets changed for ongoing operational issues (e.g. cracked trains that will take a while to fix)
4. Then it gets changed in the early hours when it turn out there are not enough drivers / trains
5. Then it gets changed during the day as other shortages occur, or more staff volunteer on rest days
6. Then it gets last minute changed when the points stick, a freight sits down on the single line, or someone goes off sick

I believe the "Delay/Repay" applies to class 4, class 5 and class 6 cancellations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 29, 2021, 08:59:46
How much advance notice of a cancellation do GWR have to give to avoid paying compensation through Delay Repay?
I got caught up in this when GWR cancelled our train three days before we were due to travel.

So we travelled on the nearest available train but it wasn’t a direct one. The guard gave us the third degree because he couldn’t see the cancelled train on his PDA, which of course he wouldn’t have done because it was removed off the system.

He should have known that many trains had been cancelled that December weekend owing to staff Christmas parties and I let him know that. In the end he backed down but I was annoyed enough to write to GWR to complain, something I never like to do about any member of staff for any company.

Then it came to making a claim online, again problems there because our original train had been deleted from the system. When it comes to the online claim system, when it works it’s great. When it doesn’t, such as in this case, it’s flippin’ useless.

So the claim was rejected so I went to the top, again something I don’t like to do. I prefer to resolve things through the normal channels provided, but when that doesn’t work what else can you do?

In the end, received a letter of apology, delay repay and a gesture of goodwill for the trouble caused but I had to fight for it.

To conclude, for claiming on delay repay, it’s better for the customer that their train is cancelled at very short notice so it’s still in the system as being cancelled, not a few days before where the train magically disappears.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 29, 2021, 09:15:48
If the cancellation reaches the online timetabke checker such that the service is removed, then no delay/repay is how I understand it.

Of course, if your booking is no longer in the ststem, how can you be expected to travel on it? Hence always worth retaining your booking confirmation showing it was available as a service when you booked.

I believe the rules indicate you can travel close to your original timings if your train suffers this fate. If you want to travel a different route, then approval ought to be sought from booking office or social media/contact form/booking office etc


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 30, 2021, 08:39:17
An exchange from a Facebook group I'm on ...

Quote
"To their credit C2c running extra 12 car trains every 30 mins sun/mon for bank holiday , when other companies can’t find enough drivers to run normal services"

Quote
"It's a case that driver's and train crew often don't want to work weekends. Also it's still not part of their contracts. Hence why services during the week are often not disrupted"

I have bolded the word "still" ... surely it would be in the interests of everyone "railway" to sort this out ... after ... how many years?  Failure to do so, providing packed / limited / unreliable services at the weekend, even when more trains and carriages can be seen to be running during the week, does not look good - especially for an industry that's going to be much more dependent on leisure journeys in the future than it has been in the past.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 30, 2021, 11:03:49

I have bolded the word "still" ... surely it would be in the interests of everyone "railway" to sort this out ... after ... how many years?  Failure to do so, providing packed / limited / unreliable services at the weekend, even when more trains and carriages can be seen to be running during the week, does not look good - especially for an industry that's going to be much more dependent on leisure journeys in the future than it has been in the past.

The TOCs want to sort it out….. and they could soon get there way at a fraction of the price the unions wanted a few years ago.
Several TOCs are considering cutting a number of services, especially peak time commuter services. This will leave them with too many train crew. So, potentially the unions may be in a position where it’s either accept Sundays into the working week or face redundancies.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 30, 2021, 13:28:12
Check out that new DfT working group taking place rigt now as part of the ‘back to rail’ DfT document reported elsewhere on this board….part if that is revising out-of-date contracts to include 7day shifts


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2021, 07:48:54
After a better week or so, we're back to the South West (particularly far South West) having numerous cancellations due to crew shortage at the weekend.

Unless it's weekend only COVID, I assume it's workforce management issues.

All cancelled.

05:40 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 08:52
06:40 Plymouth to London Paddington due 10:29
06:45 Plymouth to Penzance due 08:50
07:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 12:17
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:29
07:22 Liskeard to Looe due 07:53
07:55 Looe to Liskeard due 08:23
07:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 09:59
09:04 Plymouth to Paignton due 10:09
09:12 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:29
09:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 12:34
10:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 13:12
10:56 Paignton to London Paddington due 14:09
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:28
12:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:09
12:15 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 12:39
12:22 Swansea to London Paddington due 15:13
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 14:34
12:45 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 13:13
13:15 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 13:39
13:45 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 14:13
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:24 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 15:10
14:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:01
14:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:33
15:14 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 16:00
16:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:33


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2021, 08:27:22
After a better week or so, we're back to the South West (particularly far South West) having numerous cancellations due to crew shortage at the weekend.

Unless it's weekend only COVID, I assume it's workforce management issues.


Indeed - of course it could be "both". Scenario - short of crews due to (longer term) COVID causes workforce management to bring in crews of Thursday and Friday which would have normally been their days off, to give a full service on those traditional heavy traffic / commuter days, but then that leaves them short for Saturday which (outside the summer) has under that same tradition been a low-traffic day except for heavy flows to major things like football matches.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on September 11, 2021, 12:57:40
After a better week or so, we're back to the South West (particularly far South West) having numerous cancellations due to crew shortage at the weekend.

Unless it's weekend only COVID, I assume it's workforce management issues.


Huge issues with a points failures near Plymouth yesterday resulting in some crews booking off late and therefore unable to book on at their rostered times today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2021, 16:56:08
After a better week or so, we're back to the South West (particularly far South West) having numerous cancellations due to crew shortage at the weekend.

Unless it's weekend only COVID, I assume it's workforce management issues.


Huge issues with a points failures near Plymouth yesterday resulting in some crews booking off late and therefore unable to book on at their rostered times today.

Thanks - makes sense.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 18, 2021, 07:49:57
Quite a few cancellations to services today:

London-Bristol
London-Cheltenham
London-Swansea

Not too bad London-WoE

Special mention for Plymouth-Gunnislake, no services until lunchtime.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 18, 2021, 09:11:36
Quite a few cancellations to services today:

London-Bristol
London-Cheltenham
London-Swansea

Not too bad London-WoE

Special mention for Plymouth-Gunnislake, no services until lunchtime.

Not good - but almost Business as usual on Saturdays now, potential customers will be drifting away.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 18, 2021, 10:15:48
Certainly not the day to plan a late night out in Bristol.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/bri1809.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 18, 2021, 11:43:43
Quote
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Customers travelling from London Paddington and Swindon can catch services to Bristol Parkway and change there for CrossCountry services to Cheltenham Spa. Road transport has been requested but due to a shortage of coach/bus drivers there has been no transport sourced so far. Local bus ticket acceptance is currently in place. Customers travelling to / from Kemble are advised to use the help point for onward travel.

CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Bristol Parkway and Cheltenham Spa in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.

Tough if travelling to/from Stroud, Kemble, Stonehouse and Gloucester.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 18, 2021, 12:50:27
Certainly not the day to plan a late night out in Bristol.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/bri1809.jpg)

Oh I don’tvknow….that’d be taxis arranged, wouldn’t it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: froome on September 18, 2021, 13:24:59
Certainly not the day to plan a late night out in Bristol.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/bri1809.jpg)

Oh I don’tvknow….that’d be taxis arranged, wouldn’t it?

They would need a lot of taxis.

There should be some Westbury trains that will take a bit of the strain, but they get very busy on Saturday evenings.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on September 18, 2021, 13:52:34
The 22:40 has now been re-instated.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 19, 2021, 07:24:10
Starting to see a pattern emerge of more trains being cancelled due to traincrew shortages on a Saturday than a Sunday.

Maybe because there are not so many trains?

Scant consolation if your train is the one that’s cancelled of course. Doesn’t matter what day of the week it is then.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 19, 2021, 07:51:04
Starting to see a pattern emerge of more trains being cancelled due to traincrew shortages on a Saturday than a Sunday.

Maybe because there are not so many trains?

Scant consolation if your train is the one that’s cancelled of course. Doesn’t matter what day of the week it is then.

I was thinking the same thing too about that pattern.

Maybe because Sunday premium/overtime is more attractive at the moment, with Christmas on the horizon?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 19, 2021, 10:30:39
GWR drivers get the same rate working an additional Saturday as they do for an additional Sunday (time and a quarter).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2021, 10:43:14
More events going on on Saturday than Sunday, so more would rather work onba Sunday


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 19, 2021, 16:42:50
More events going on on Saturday than Sunday, so more would rather work onba Sunday

Ah I see..........should make it easier to get Sunday within the working week then, clearly it's not so sacred after all?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on September 19, 2021, 18:30:17
More events going on on Saturday than Sunday, so more would rather work onba Sunday

I don't understand the logic here could you explain?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 19, 2021, 21:11:06
More events going on on Saturday than Sunday, so more would rather work onba Sunday

Ah I see..........should make it easier to get Sunday within the working week then, clearly it's not so sacred after all?

Recent trainee recruitment would suggest Sunday within the working week will be happening at some point still.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2021, 22:09:28
More events going on on Saturday than Sunday, so more would rather work onba Sunday

I don't understand the logic here could you explain?

If the earnings are the same for extra Saturday & Sunday shifts as stated above, then any football fans can watch their game on a Saturday while earning an extra tiurn on a Sunday without missing out on a higher additional payment. For example. There are many others. More happens on a Saturday than Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on September 20, 2021, 21:12:51
Are the management not keeping their staff happy? Happy staff will almost always help between them to cover shifts but when morale is low the answer is normally "no".
From II's post yesterday (see above) and what's been demonstrated every weekend (and weekdays now too) the answer is clearly no.

I was once asked by a senior manager how much job satisfaction I got. I asked if he meant before or after tax and national insurance. Money can't buy you happiness, but you can afford a better class of misery.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 25, 2021, 08:39:25
After the last few Saturdays where there have been dozens of cancellations due to crew shortage, it seems a better situation today with "only" around 10 - hopefully it won't deteriorate later today............or tomorrow.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: phile on September 25, 2021, 09:52:02
After the last few Saturdays where there have been dozens of cancellations due to crew shortage, it seems a better situation today with "only" around 10 - hopefully it won't deteriorate later today............or tomorrow.

Unless I'm missing something Journey Check is currently showing 25 with Cornwall badly hit again


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 25, 2021, 09:56:53
After the last few Saturdays where there have been dozens of cancellations due to crew shortage, it seems a better situation today with "only" around 10 - hopefully it won't deteriorate later today............or tomorrow.

Unless I'm missing something Journey Check is currently showing 25 with Cornwall badly hit again

Yep, I spoke too soon. Should know better really...... ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 26, 2021, 16:57:13
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 21:45 26/09.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on September 28, 2021, 08:36:21
Today's Telegraph:  (Should this be in the "Named Trains" thread ??)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hG5WGYwH/Screenshot-2021-09-28-082910.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2021, 08:55:04
Should this be in the "Named Trains" thread ??

Well it shouldn’t be in the ‘Shortage of Train Crew’ thread.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on September 28, 2021, 10:53:39
Should this be in the "Named Trains" thread ??

Well it shouldn’t be in the ‘Shortage of Train Crew’ thread.

It should if it was meant to be a 10 car train..............


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on September 28, 2021, 10:56:55
Surely should be in Broadgage’s favourite - the cracks thread & lack of 80x stock


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2021, 15:23:33
Should this be in the "Named Trains" thread ??

Well it shouldn’t be in the ‘Shortage of Train Crew’ thread.

It should if it was meant to be a 10 car train..............

10-car trains don’t run on the North Cotswold Line.  And even if they did, not necessarily…


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on September 28, 2021, 16:30:11
The writer of the letter states that trains that should have been 9 car were in fact 5 car, presuming that they are correct in this, then yes this probably belongs in the cracked trains thread.

IET advocates might however suggest that lack of depot staff is the problem, rather than the trains.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 28, 2021, 19:17:35
I think a shortage of trains, or the author being mistaken, or the author saying ‘should’ meaning it was booked for a 5-car but that was inadequate, are the three most likely reasons.

It’s doubtful we’ll find out, but very unlikely to be a train crew shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 02, 2021, 14:19:15
Good to see a very low number of cancellations/alterations due to crew shortage today (I said nothing this morning, didn't want to tempt fate!)  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 02, 2021, 16:28:08
Less good over at SWR...

Quote
Changes to West of England services this weekend 
We're sorry but due to an ongoing shortage of traincrew, we will be making some changes to West of England line services this Saturday (2nd October).
Engineering works may also affect your journey – for more information on this visit: https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/planned-improvements/engineering-work-weekly-summary
A summary of the changes this Saturday is below:
   •   Salisbury to London Waterloo stopping services will terminate at Basingstoke – customers will need to change at Basingstoke for onward services to Woking, Clapham Junction and Waterloo
   •   London Waterloo to Salisbury services will start at Basingstoke. Customers travelling from Waterloo, Clapham Junction and Woking will need to catch an earlier service and change at Basingstoke
   •   SWR services between Salisbury and Bristol will not run. Customers will need to use connecting GWR services via a change at Salisbury. If you have an Advance ticket, you will be able to travel on GWR services on this route. If you can, try to travel close to your original booked time.
   •   Customers to / from Warminster and Westbury may be able to use the Salisbury – Yeovil via Westbury services which will continue to run.
   •   SWR services to Yeovil Pen Mill / Yeovil Junction via Westbury will run as normal.
   •   SWR services between London Waterloo and Exeter will run as normal.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 02, 2021, 19:08:21
Less good over at SWR...

Quote
Changes to West of England services this weekend 
We're sorry but due to an ongoing shortage of traincrew, we will be making some changes to West of England line services this Saturday (2nd October)

Of course, if I were in charge of saving money at SWR, running reduced services west of Salisbury and east of Basingstoke , and knowing I had been told to remove services north of Westbury in 10 weeks time, I wouldn't be too worried about having enough staff right up to that date.   Especially if the risk had been taken out of of the franchise and my company would not be penalised, and I wasn't too worried about my passengers


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 02, 2021, 20:39:05
Good to see a very low number of cancellations/alterations due to crew shortage today (I said nothing this morning, didn't want to tempt fate!)  :)
Indeed, a much better day.

However, for Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary customers a far from satisfactory service later in the day with both the 16.36 and 19.04 Paddington to Castle Cary services both cancelled. With WoE fast services being diverted via Bristol, there was no option to have the 17.04 call at these stations to take those passengers from the cancelled 16.36.

Sad to say this was expected after previous times the line between Castle Cary and Taunton has been closed, the Paddington to Castle Cary services have suffered from traincrew related cancellations. Okay, so probably not affecting many passengers. But if you are one of them, you won’t be very pleased.

Just for tidiness, the return journey off the 16.36, the 18.52 Castle Cary to Paddington was also cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 02, 2021, 22:08:18
Good to see a very low number of cancellations/alterations due to crew shortage today (I said nothing this morning, didn't want to tempt fate!)  :)
Indeed, a much better day.

Only 23.5% cancelled at Melksham ... 3 lack of crew, 1 lack of working train; 13 trains ran.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2021, 09:50:21
A few cancellations, mainly in the SW both local and Intercity services. Of particular note between Penzance and Plymouth there might be some busy trains.

Also, two successive cancellations between Bristol and London at lunchtime leaving a two hour gap. Big deal you may say. Let’s not forget South Wales-London services are not calling at Bristol Parkway this weekend.

Swindon-Paddington shuttles running again, one of which will part cover the cancelled 12.30 Bristol-Paddington.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2021, 12:36:17
Update:
13.00 Bristol-Paddington reinstated.

SW semi fasts one by one are being cancelled however.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 10, 2021, 13:06:04
Update:
13.00 Bristol-Paddington reinstated.

SW semi fasts one by one are being cancelled however.

Yes seems to be deteriorating. Pal was at Penzance earlier & there were some very unhappy (would be) travellers who'd been given no meaningful explanation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2021, 13:13:44
Yes seems to be deteriorating. Pal was at Penzance earlier & there were some very unhappy (would be) travellers who'd been given no meaningful explanation.
I’m not surprised there are some unhappy people with a five hour gap between direct services to London from Cornwall.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on October 10, 2021, 17:02:50
An extra train left PAD for SWI at 1700


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2021, 17:43:13
Good to see some services, namely the 16:36 to Plymouth, 17:00 to Bristol from Paddington and the 17:46 Plymouth to Paddington were reinstated as the afternoon went on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on October 10, 2021, 20:32:13
PNZ, PLY, PAD, NTA
Apparently, anecdotal evidence suggests that Trainline contact their customers if a train is advised as cancelled - and this happens even if the train is only 'part cancelled', but not directly affecting their customer's journey [for instance, if a PNZ to PAD service is cancelled between PNZ and PLY only, a  customer joining at NTA is still contacted advising that their train has been cancelled].

If this is the case, what should happen if the customer rearranges their plans and turns up for 'the next available service' only to find that their original train has actually been and gone? Assuming they had an Advance ticket, should they lose their money or should they be allowed to catch the next available service without charge?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 11, 2021, 07:08:17
PNZ, PLY, PAD, NTA
Apparently, anecdotal evidence suggests that Trainline contact their customers if a train is advised as cancelled - and this happens even if the train is only 'part cancelled', but not directly affecting their customer's journey [for instance, if a PNZ to PAD service is cancelled between PNZ and PLY only, a  customer joining at NTA is still contacted advising that their train has been cancelled].

If this is the case, what should happen if the customer rearranges their plans and turns up for 'the next available service' only to find that their original train has actually been and gone? Assuming they had an Advance ticket, should they lose their money or should they be allowed to catch the next available service without charge?

I guess it really depends how much you care about your customers and the future of your business.

If you do, and want to demonstrate empathy for their situation given that the train they'd booked had been amended and (for reasons outside of their control) they'd been given incomplete information by their ticket vendor through no fault of their own, it's the latter option, together with an apology for delay/inconvenience.

If you want to fold arms, be a jobsworth and rely on a rulebook to back you up, it's the former option, but bear in mind that next time they'll probably take the car, and tell all their friends about the way they were treated too.

If the railways are sincere about improving customer service/experience and attracting leisure travellers, I think the answer is obvious - GWR can have the discussion with Trainline themselves - and perhaps develop their own capability to keep customers informed on their trains, particularly given the lottery that long distance weekend travel has become.

(By "you" I don't mean you personally of course!!!)  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on October 11, 2021, 09:04:45
(By "you" I don't mean you personally of course!!!)  :)

A fence not taken  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 30, 2021, 08:32:32
Wow, all SW semifasts cancelled today. The fasts stopping at Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary to compensate but NOT Newbury which has been discussed on previous pages of this thread.

The services that are running today between the SW and London today could be very busy with people returning to London after the half term break.

Planning to travel by train over the Christmas period, but this past half term holiday week, which has seen SW services cancelled because of traincrew shortages, hasn’t filled me with confidence.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 30, 2021, 08:42:03


The services that are running today between the SW and London today could be very busy with people returning to London after the half term break.

Planning to travel by train over the Christmas period, but this past half term holiday week, which has seen SW services cancelled because of traincrew shortages, hasn’t filled me with confidence.


Exactly this.

Another huge own goal.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on October 30, 2021, 09:28:21
The services that are running today between the SW and London today could be very busy with people returning to London after the half term break.

Planning to travel by train over the Christmas period, but this past half term holiday week, which has seen SW services cancelled because of traincrew shortages, hasn’t filled me with confidence.

Exactly this.

Another huge own goal.

No its not an own goal!  Not this time. 

Given the very high number of cases of Covid in the SW at the moment it may be to do with COVID. 

Yes do you remember COVID - yes the pandemic - well its not over and the number of cases in Swindon is now higher than at any time here during the pandemic and I suspect that across the south west, Swindon is not unique in this respect.

Although much of that is among children, it is also among their parents. Even when parents of children don't get it they still have to self-isolate, so the number of people self-isolating is likely to be at an all time high as well. 

Now to be really unpopular - with COVID levels so high I am not sure we should be encouraging leisure travel anyway at the moment! Particularly if it means overcrowded trains due to the shortage of staff. 

That's not a railway industry own goal it is a result of government policy of removing even the most modest infection control measures and of at best rank incompetence by some of those associated with the testing of COVID cases in Wolverhampton Lab. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 30, 2021, 10:25:49
Planning to travel by train over the Christmas period, but this past half term holiday week, which has seen SW services cancelled because of traincrew shortages, hasn’t filled me with confidence.

[Spoiler Alert] All the evidence suggests there will be disruption and crew shortages over Christmas.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 30, 2021, 10:29:20
[Spoiler Alert] All the evidence suggests there will be disruption and crew shortages over Christmas.
Sigh, sadly yes II, just like every Christmas…Covid or no Covid.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on October 30, 2021, 15:02:06

Now to be really unpopular - with COVID levels so high I am not sure we should be encouraging leisure travel anyway at the moment! Particularly if it means overcrowded trains due to the shortage of staff. 


That doesn't seem to worry GWR with their inane Famous Five ads........... :-\


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 30, 2021, 16:58:48
That doesn't seem to worry GWR with their inane Famous Five ads........... :-\
Looking at the front page of the GWR website, this weekend Five go on a rip roaring ramble!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 14, 2021, 10:11:33
Another bad day for cancellations/short running due to crew shortage in the West and particularly the South West.

Over 50 services currently listed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on November 14, 2021, 11:38:41
Another bad day for cancellations/short running due to crew shortage in the West and particularly the South West.

Over 50 services currently listed.

A lot are slowly being reinstated.

I believe some issues were caused with services terminating at Liskeard because of engineering works and where the possession has been taken doesn’t allow for trains to reverse, therefore sets and crews are being swapped around.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on November 14, 2021, 15:06:04
Another bad day for cancellations/short running due to crew shortage in the West and particularly the South West.

Over 50 services currently listed.
No it’s not been a good day for passengers in the Southwest as well as between London and the Southwest. As at 3pm still 36 cancellations showing.

Look at this for a next to useless service:

Quote
18:34 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:08 will be terminated at Reading.
It will no longer call at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, Exeter St Davids, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Ivybridge and Plymouth.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Let’s hope this service gets resinstated for it’s full journey.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 14, 2021, 18:52:27
Look at this for a next to useless service:

Quote
18:34 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:08 will be terminated at Reading.
It will no longer call at Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, Exeter St Davids, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Ivybridge and Plymouth.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Let’s hope this service gets resinstated for it’s full journey.

Nope. GWR went the other way. Cancelled entirely.

Quote
1C92 18:34 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:08 will be cancelled.

This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Additional Information:

Passengers for Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary can board the 19:05 London Paddington to Plymouth service which will call additionally at those stations today. Any passengers for Newbury can change at Reading for the 19:44 departure to Bedwyn. Any passengers for Dawlish and Teignmouth can change at Exeter St. David's for the 21:33 departure towards Paignton. Any passengers for Ivybridge are advised to change at Plymouth and speak with station staff for onwards travel to Ivybridge.

The additional calls with a visit to Westbury will make the connection at Exeter for Dawlish & Teignmouth a little tight. Why not also have special stops for those stations too?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Clan Line on November 14, 2021, 19:15:18
Any passengers for Ivybridge are advised to change at Plymouth and speak with station staff for onwards travel to Ivybridge.

.............."for onwards travel"   ???  Shouldn't that be "backward travel" ?  - interpret that any way you want !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on November 14, 2021, 21:11:52
Loss of signalling between Newton Abbot and Plymouth.

XC’s 1V60 which was booked to depart Totnes at 19:20 is still sat there as of 21:10


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on November 14, 2021, 21:58:01
Loss of signalling between Newton Abbot and Plymouth.

XC’s 1V60 which was booked to depart Totnes at 19:20 is still sat there as of 21:10

Yup
Quote
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Plymouth and Newton Abbot all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 22:00 14/11.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PrestburyRoad on November 14, 2021, 22:07:20
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/283724.aspx (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/283724.aspx)

Quote
A fault with the signalling system between Plymouth and Newton Abbot is causing delays of up to 40 minutes to trains between these stations.

Trains may be held back at stations whilst the issue is being investigated.

Disruption is expected to continue until 23:00.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 14, 2021, 22:22:14
Loss of signalling between Newton Abbot and Plymouth.

XC’s 1V60 which was booked to depart Totnes at 19:20 is still sat there as of 21:10

Yup
Quote
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Plymouth and Newton Abbot all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 22:00 14/11.

According to reports on GWR Twitter (upon which I would not stake my life), passengers have been told that the necessary backup generator for the signals doesn't have any fuel.

Network Rail are apparently in attendance.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on November 14, 2021, 22:31:20
Western Power Distribution were called to refuel the generator - it was low, but hadn't run out. After refuelling the surge protector burnt out. WPD then wired in their own generator.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on November 14, 2021, 22:59:10
The generator was running but further fault finding discovered the surge protection unit had burnt out. This unit was then bypassed and another generator put in place to restore signalling.

XC 1V60 1920 Totnes to Plymouth departed at around 2230


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Witham Bobby on November 15, 2021, 12:35:51
Loss of signalling between Newton Abbot and Plymouth.

XC’s 1V60 which was booked to depart Totnes at 19:20 is still sat there as of 21:10

Yup
Quote
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Plymouth and Newton Abbot all lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until 22:00 14/11.

According to reports on GWR Twitter (upon which I would not stake my life), passengers have been told that the necessary backup generator for the signals doesn't have any fuel.

Network Rail are apparently in attendance.

What a way to run a railroad!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 15, 2021, 12:43:38
Back up generators are tested fairly regularly I believe, but often seem to fail when needed the most!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on November 15, 2021, 12:44:27
Capped off a pretty bad day travelling by train in the Southwest.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on November 15, 2021, 12:53:46
Back up generators are tested fairly regularly I believe, but often seem to fail when needed the most!

My experience too. I think the problem is that routine use/rehearsal/testing does not involve full end-to-end operation, so does not answer the question "does it actually take over and supply power to all of my load when the public supply fails". The same problem affects computer back-ups - few have the nerve to delete their primary set of files and test that a restore operation really does put them all back. So the first time you need either for real, you find out it doesn't work. Embarrassing, that.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on November 15, 2021, 14:48:06
I used to maintain an office building with backup generators.
Inspected weekly for
Battery charger working.
Engine block heater working.
Coolant level in radiator.
Lubricant level correct.
Fuel in both the day tank on the engine and in the bulk tank.
Control switch set in "AUTO"
Also confirm by inspection that spare parts to hand, oil filter, air filters, fan belts, pilot lamps, control circuit fuses.

Monthly test. Does it start readily and run at the correct speed.

Six monthly, full load test powering the building as intended. This was done on a Saturday when the building load was less than normal, but to compensate for this extra load was added in the form of portable heaters.

Three yearly, full service by external specialist, replace starter batteries, belts and filters.

This generator NEVER failed to operate when called upon.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on November 15, 2021, 14:54:49
The same problem affects computer back-ups - few have the nerve to delete their primary set of files and test that a restore operation really does pout them all back. So the first time you need either for real, you find out it doesn't work. Embarrassing, that.

Indeed - we have never tried a 100% server restore here by deleting the main VM server - that would put us down for a few hours.  I HAVE set up a fresh VM and run it for test purposes, and had to do partial restores too. The "test purpose" mechanism was what we used last autumn to move our server, and we moved the backup system with it too.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 15, 2021, 18:44:23
Generally the gensets are well maintained, the fuel is scrubbed once a year, oil is either changed or a sample sent to a lab of analysis, there are 2 independent sets of batteries that are changed every 5 years, there are sump and block heaters.  They have an RCM system which is monitored by the Routes 'Flight Engineers' 24/7

The sets are run up regularly, black crash testing is done when Operations allow it.

It would be interesting to know where the genset was located, the provider of emergency gensets in the area I cover is Aggreko and they have a very short notice response time for gensets up to 200kW


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on November 26, 2021, 07:44:33
...............
On a different note, it's saddening to also note 'more trains than usual wanting repair'.
Many services having reduced carriages.
Surely they've had sufficient repair time!
Yes, they all require routine services, but there seems a constant stock shortage whilst units are taken off the road for routines.
And we're still seeing many reduced formations everywhere.  Surely GWR/Treasury would be able to source temporary stock to enable them to get on top of repairs?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on November 26, 2021, 13:20:11
...............
On a different note, it's saddening to also note 'more trains than usual wanting repair'.
Many services having reduced carriages.
Surely they've had sufficient repair time!
Yes, they all require routine services, but there seems a constant stock shortage whilst units are taken off the road for routines.
And we're still seeing many reduced formations everywhere.  Surely GWR/Treasury would be able to source temporary stock to enable them to get on top of repairs?

"more trains than usual needing repairs" is generally code for "significant numbers of IETs are withdrawn due to cracks" This looks likely to be long term, as no time scale has been published for repair or replacement. May get worse and not better as other units of the same design are cracked but allowed to remain in service subject to monitoring of the cracks, which may worsen.
Remember all the promises made about the greatly increased capacity to be provided by the IETs, not only on the routes so served but also elsewhere by freeing up other stock.

And of of course the 769 project has also been a failure, I suppose that they will eventually work to an extent.

I doubt that either the IETs or the 769s will EVER achieve the initially promised availability.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on November 26, 2021, 20:53:23
...............
On a different note, it's saddening to also note 'more trains than usual wanting repair'.
Many services having reduced carriages.
Surely they've had sufficient repair time!
Yes, they all require routine services, but there seems a constant stock shortage whilst units are taken off the road for routines.
And we're still seeing many reduced formations everywhere.  Surely GWR/Treasury would be able to source temporary stock to enable them to get on top of repairs?

Have number of class 800 sets 'mothballed' due to the still reduced timetable at the behest of the DfT to cut the public spend?  If sets have been mothballed they would not be ready for immediate use


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on November 26, 2021, 21:53:04
I thought that a significant number of IETs are withdrawn due to cracks, rather than being mothballed.
Hitachi SHOULD be paying compensation for the failure of THEIR trains, but I bet that there is some wiggle room and that a compromise has been reached, meaning no compensation is actually being paid.

Perhaps calling the stored/withdrawn units "mothballed at customer request due to the covid mode timetable" sounds better and lets Hitachi off the hook. Any cracks that MIGHT be present on SOME of the units being purely coincidental of course.

Un mothballing might turn out to be harder and more complex than expected, thereby letting Hitachi of the hook for a bit longer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 11, 2021, 08:25:18
Just as people will be thinking of using the train to travel at Christmas.......all these cancelled & 30+ (mostly) short runs........not a good message to send out.

07:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:28
07:38 Penzance to Plymouth due 09:37
08:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 11:04
09:27 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 12:40
09:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 11:59
10:17 Plymouth to Penzance due 12:10
10:40 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 13:26
11:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:28
11:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 14:09
12:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 13:50
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 15:00
12:50 Penzance to Exeter St Davids due 15:57
13:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 15:09
13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:59
14:07 Westbury to Swindon due 14:55
14:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:28
14:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:03
14:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 16:45
15:05 Swindon to Westbury due 15:52
16:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:59
17:39 Gloucester to Westbury due 19:32
17:58 Exeter St Davids to Plymouth due 19:07
18:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Parkway due 19:03
19:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Parkway due 20:02
19:10 Bristol Parkway to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:26
19:20 Paignton to Exmouth due 20:50
19:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 21:30
19:34 Swindon to Westbury due 20:16
19:45 Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:33
20:57 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids due 21:30
21:10 Swindon to Westbury due 21:51
21:32 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 22:30


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 11, 2021, 10:39:32
Actually it might be a very good message to send out! If you are not going to be able to provide a service then say so!

I am also beginning to think that travelling on an even normally crowded train is probably not a good idea at the moment. Or perhaps you would like train crews to have to work while infectious. 

Omicron may perhaps be less severe, but it would have to be hugely less severe (the evidence is insufficient on this at the moment) to counteract the huge increase in numbers from exponential growth if the current estimates of transmissibility (about which we have much more evidence) are proved correct.

In short the blunt message I am starting to think we may be going back to only travel by train if your journey is essential. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 11, 2021, 11:04:07
In short the blunt message I am starting to think we may be going back to only travel by train if your journey is essential. 

That might be the case - and it could be the right message.  I noticed in my travels yesterday that everyone was / is spacing as best they can - though perhaps not through scientific knowledge but because of what we have been taught - and I was mighty glad to bail at Bath Spa faced with

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/shock_001.jpg)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 11, 2021, 12:23:29
Look at all those people boarding a train that won’t exist next week putting more pressure on the existing GWR services, particularly if the train is short formed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 11, 2021, 12:43:37
Look at all those people boarding a train that won’t exist next week putting more pressure on the existing GWR services, particularly if the train is short formed.

This is the ONLY extra train of the day that GWR *are* "replacing" in part, by extending a Cardiff - Bristol service to Frome - and hopefully that will be longer that 2 carriages (* edit - train to be extended was 4 carriages last night).    This was the 22:40 last night from Bath to Salisbury.  GWR's 23:11 to Westbury was cancelled, leaving the next train at 00:03 to Frome.

From Monday, late departures from Bath to West Wilts:
22:41 (ex Cardiff) to Frome
23:22 (ex Great Malvern) to Westbury
00:04 (ex Bristol Temple Meads) to Frome

The last through train to Warminster and Salisbury will now be at 22:03, though a connection run by SWR (yes, really!) will be available at Westbury, where passengers will have 6 minutes to change.   This depends on:
* GWR running their train
* The GWR train being more or less on time (or Westbury holding the train, something that isn't done on other trains even when it looks blindingly obvious it should be done)
* SWR running the their train
* Inebriated regular customers realising they now need to change and not getting carried away to Frome
What could possibly go wrong??


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on December 11, 2021, 12:46:01
Just as people will be thinking of using the train to travel at Christmas.......all these cancelled & 30+ (mostly) short runs........not a good message to send out.

Well, it could be worse. An hour ago GWR listed 36 cancellations, while at SWR it was 148. And most of those were on the Windsor Lines or the Exeter line east of Basingstoke (and Lymington). None on the SWML or the main suburban routes. Just now that had dropped to 126, while GWR's was still 36.

SWR's explanation identifies this as a long-term issue, not some kind of pingdemic:
Quote
What's going on
We're sorry, but due to a shortage of traincrew we have had to make alterations and cancellations to services across our network today.

What we're doing about it
The underlying cause of these issues is a shortage of available drivers, due to the extensive disruption Covid-19 restrictions have caused to our new driver training programme over the past year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on December 11, 2021, 12:56:47
Thursday's 16:20 from Waterloo, being cheerfully half full on leaving Salisbury, picked up a *lot* of people at stations to Bath on arrival at Bath 1854 ish many left the train there. Enough for enough of a queue to form on the stairs from the platform that I missed the rather tight bus-up-the-hill connection.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 11, 2021, 14:58:49
Just as people will be thinking of using the train to travel at Christmas.......all these cancelled & 30+ (mostly) short runs........not a good message to send out.

Well I did warn of a bruising Christmas for staff availability. 

We had storm ‘Barra’ last week.  Now there’s a four pronged perfect storm approaching called ‘Crew Shortage’…


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 11, 2021, 16:45:28


Actually it might be a very good message to send out! If you are not going to be able to provide a service then say so!



Perhaps, but say it more than an hour or two before said service is going to depart, or you simply force more and more people onto later/other services which then become more and more overcrowded, and in the COVID context, more and more dangerous as GWR are not managing boarding.

If the message is to be "we can't operate the advertised timetable because of staff shortages" and this is going to persist over Christmas as II suggests, come up with a restricted timetable that CAN be resourced and run safely in order that customers can plan around it accordingly.




Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 11, 2021, 17:18:10
But dont we already have a reduced "covid mode" timetable ? with the short notice cancellations being in addition.

Whilst the pandemic is a new excuse, let us remember that FGW, later GWR, had a miserable record regarding staffing since long before the pandemic.

And after Christmas comes Easter, when cancelled trains and short trains are now an established tradition. And then Summer holidays, when people tend to travel to holiday destinations, often with luggage, cycles, dogs and children, back in the good old days even surfboards could be carried.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 11, 2021, 18:00:37
But dont we already have a reduced "covid mode" timetable ? with the short notice cancellations being in addition.

Whilst the pandemic is a new excuse, let us remember that FGW, later GWR, had a miserable record regarding staffing since long before the pandemic.

That’s one of the four prongs of the storm…we always don’t have enough staff available over Christmas anyway.

The other prongs are:

2) The remaining large back log of training of new drivers and route knowledge of existing drivers for the many months that couldn’t take place.  The ‘jam tomorrow’ is that those who had just commenced their training are now starting to pass out quite quickly, but there remains a large staff and knowledge deficit.

3) From tomorrow more trains are running again.  Great time to reintroduce more of the timetable just before Christmas and when you still have stock shortages.

and 4) Uncertainty over the new Covid variant.  Cases are rising and who knows where they’ll be in a weeks time, but if we start to see daily cases approaching 100000 as some are predicting, then you will see more staff off sick/isolating as a result of a positive test.

—-

I think most will cut the railways a little slack over the situation if it’s properly explained to them, just as I’m cutting a little slack with certain services and suppliers I use that are struggling in different ways.  But you will be seeing plenty more cancellations I’m afraid.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 11, 2021, 19:39:40
But dont we already have a reduced "covid mode" timetable ? with the short notice cancellations being in addition.

Whilst the pandemic is a new excuse, let us remember that FGW, later GWR, had a miserable record regarding staffing since long before the pandemic.

That’s one of the four prongs of the storm…we always don’t have enough staff available over Christmas anyway.

The other prongs are:

2) The remaining large back log of training of new drivers and route knowledge of existing drivers for the many months that couldn’t take place.  The ‘jam tomorrow’ is that those who had just commenced their training are now starting to pass out quite quickly, but there remains a large staff and knowledge deficit.

3) From tomorrow more trains are running again.  Great time to reintroduce more of the timetable just before Christmas and when you still have stock shortages.

and 4) Uncertainty over the new Covid variant.  Cases are rising and who knows where they’ll be in a weeks time, but if we start to see daily cases approaching 100000 as some are predicting, then you will see more staff off sick/isolating as a result of a positive test.

—-

I think most will cut the railways a little slack over the situation if it’s properly explained to them, just as I’m cutting a little slack with certain services and suppliers I use that are struggling in different ways.  But you will be seeing plenty more cancellations I’m afraid.

A proper, full & honest explanation along the lines you've given is indeed the minimum the railways customers deserve.

Given we've less than a fortnight to go I would hope it's imminent.

Given the amount of slack the railways have been cut over many years now on this issue, for the railway's sake I hope it's adequate.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 11, 2021, 21:32:59
Given the amount of slack the railways have been cut over many years now on this issue, for the railway's sake I hope it's adequate.

It is as if in your mind GWR, SWR etc (TOCS) are like modern day Canute's (Cnut) who have power over everything, but somehow can't be bothered to use it. 

It is almost as if you think that they actually control the railways?  We all know that DfT micromanage the railways these days and tell the TOCS and NR what to do. 

You also seem to assume that they (TOCS) have total control over the Covid-19, the weather and everything else.

You also seem to assume that they could muster whole fleets of trains and staff them as and when necessary if only they could be bothered. 

Like people who want NR to improve and maintain the railway without impinging on service provision by doing it in short slots in the middle of the night, but then complain they are expensive. At the same time we know that Highways England is able to shut a motorway at a similar time without criticism. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on December 12, 2021, 15:19:35

It is as if in your mind GWR, SWR etc (TOCS) are like modern day Canute's (Cnut) who have power over everything, but somehow can't be bothered to use it. 


There's no call for that. :D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 12, 2021, 16:47:01

It is as if in your mind GWR, SWR etc (TOCS) are like modern day Canute's (Cnut) who have power over everything, but somehow can't be bothered to use it. 


There's no call for that. :D

I must admit I was tempted, but resisted!  ;D


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on December 13, 2021, 08:07:24
Engineering works at Redruth most of this week, so bustitution between Penzance and Truro, but many services cancelled/short runs today with staff shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2021, 10:25:04
Engineering works at Redruth most of this week, so bustitution between Penzance and Truro, but many services cancelled/short runs today with staff shortage.

Indeed.

Cancellations to services between Truro and Plymouth

Due to a shortage of train crew between Truro and Plymouth fewer trains are able to run.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 11:40 13/12.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2021, 07:57:58
Message on GWR website and on Twitter feed at 2230 on Friday night.

 https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates/disruption-information


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 18, 2021, 11:32:17
Next week looking bleak as several friends and colleagues now isolating.  Fortunately, I think there will be quite a dramatic drop in the numbers of people travelling, especially the Christmas rush, which is now likely to be much quieter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on December 18, 2021, 12:56:44
Next week looking bleak as several friends and colleagues now isolating.  Fortunately, I think there will be quite a dramatic drop in the numbers of people travelling, especially the Christmas rush, which is now likely to be much quieter.

Tomorrow looking especially bleak.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 18, 2021, 17:33:25
Next week looking bleak as several friends and colleagues now isolating.  Fortunately, I think there will be quite a dramatic drop in the numbers of people travelling, especially the Christmas rush, which is now likely to be much quieter.

Tomorrow looking especially bleak.

Yes, indeed.  I’m expecting we may well see daily cancellations numbering in the 100s.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2021, 17:41:30
Next week looking bleak as several friends and colleagues now isolating.  Fortunately, I think there will be quite a dramatic drop in the numbers of people travelling, especially the Christmas rush, which is now likely to be much quieter.

Tomorrow looking especially bleak.

Yes, indeed.  I’m expecting we may well see daily cancellations numbering in the 100s.

Happy Christmas everyone!   :o


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 18, 2021, 17:46:43
Happy Christmas everyone!   :o

Not sure about happy.  I think I’ll just wish everyone a safe Christmas and a safer new year!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 18, 2021, 17:54:41
Happy Christmas everyone!   :o

Not sure about happy.  I think I’ll just wish everyone a safe Christmas and a safer new year!

I'm aiming for happy and safe as I am sure are most.

I wish you all the same.

For those who are travelling over the next few days, good luck and do stay safe.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on December 18, 2021, 18:59:10
Next week looking bleak as several friends and colleagues now isolating.  Fortunately, I think there will be quite a dramatic drop in the numbers of people travelling, especially the Christmas rush, which is now likely to be much quieter.

Tomorrow looking especially bleak.

Yes, indeed.  I’m expecting we may well see daily cancellations numbering in the 100s.

Please don't blame GWR or even the Railway. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 18, 2021, 19:09:32
I PARTIALLY blame GWR because they had such a miserable record of staff shortages since long before the pandemic.

If the pandemic had not occurred, does anyone really believe that a full Sunday service would have been available ?

 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 18, 2021, 20:03:58
If the pandemic had not occurred, does anyone really believe that a full Sunday service would have been available ?

Very unlikely.  Which is why it was one of my four prongs in the perfect storm I talked about a week ago today.

However, disruption next week could be at unprecedented levels.  I see the London Mayor had declared a major incident over concerns that emergency and other key services will be severely tested due to staff availability.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2021, 15:50:06
Obviously I am tempting fate here, but it perhaps hasn't been as bad as was feared/forecast by some today (so far anyway?)

Especially in terms of long distance cancellations due to crew shortage?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 19, 2021, 16:04:55
Obviously I am tempting fate here, but it perhaps hasn't been as bad as was feared/forecast by some today (so far anyway?)

Especially in terms of long distance cancellations due to crew shortage?
No, it hasn’t been too bad. The SW semifasts have taken a bit of a hit on the cancellation front today but the fasts stepping in to cover Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary, so all in all been okay.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on December 19, 2021, 18:32:31
Obviously I am tempting fate here, but it perhaps hasn't been as bad as was feared/forecast by some today (so far anyway?)

Especially in terms of long distance cancellations due to crew shortage?

Morning Up services suffered because of overrunning engineering work between Totnes and Plymouth resulting in two or three cancellations


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 19, 2021, 21:29:54
Obviously I am tempting fate here, but it perhaps hasn't been as bad as was feared/forecast by some today (so far anyway?)

Especially in terms of long distance cancellations due to crew shortage?

Yes, very pleasing to see today wasn’t too bad.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Kernowman on December 21, 2021, 12:07:06
I did the 14.03 Paddington to Penzance throughout on the 19th, it was very full but the 9 coach IET just about coped with it. It left Pad 40 mins late (late getting in) and arrived at Penzance 55 mins late, no trolley appeared at all, in fact no staff appeared at all after Reading but, I guess, at least the train ran.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 22, 2021, 07:27:24
Only a brief mention of GWR but the national pattern is clear;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59743461


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 22, 2021, 07:32:58
Only a brief mention of GWR but the national pattern is clear;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59743461
Hopefully the cutting of self isolation from 10 to 7 days following two negative LFTs will help the situation.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 25, 2021, 08:14:13
Delighted to see that despite it being Saturday, we don't have a single cancellation or shortened service due to crew shortage!

Have a wonderful day all  :)



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on December 26, 2021, 18:48:15
And doing as well today !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 28, 2021, 08:13:29
Cancellations to services between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa all lines are disrupted.
Train services running through these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:45 28/12.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2022, 09:40:02
Sunday - still in the holiday period + the COVID factor - only 4 cancellations listed currently and a smattering of short runs - yesterday there were numerous cancellations all day on all routes due to staff shortage

Seems strange? (although pleasing!), especially given the forecasts from those forum members close to the frontline.

............Or is it actually much worse and Journeycheck is up the swannee again?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 02, 2022, 11:23:11
Difficult to see the wood for the trees.

For example, I note:

The timetabled two trains per hour between Oxford and Didcot/Paddington is halved today with only one service which also serves the Cotswold Line as well as Radley.  A planned alteration today?

The traditional one train every two hours on a Sunday between Paddington and Gloucester/Cheltenham was increased to hourly in December 2019.  It was never particularly reliable, especially on holiday Sundays.  Those trains were curtailed to a Swindon<>Cheltenham shuttle at some point during the pandemic and that is how it remains, save for an unbalanced one direct train from London and three to London each Sunday.

There appears to be less trains in Cornwall.  There is no sign of the advertised (in the normal timetable on GWR.com) 13:40 and 15:40 Plymouth to Penzance trains for example.  Planned?  Unplanned?  Leaves 90 minute gaps in the service (120 mins in one case as the following train is listed as 'cancelled').  Also the Looe branch is closed over winter Sunday's which frees up some crew that are normally required over summer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 09, 2022, 16:56:10
So the 1810 and 1910 Bristol to London are both cancelled. Sensibly the 1622 Swansea to London will now stop at Bristol TM but not Bath despite passing through this station, actually down to stop for ‘staffing reasons’.

So as far as the public is concerned the next train to London after the 1723 (five coaches) will be at 2023  ::)

edited to include missing info


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on January 09, 2022, 20:56:52
20:23 seems to have been 5 too.

Mark


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 30, 2022, 14:58:16
Westcountry (especially) services taking a bit of a hammering this afternoon/evening due to staff shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2022, 08:12:03
1715,1915,1948,2015 Plymouth to Paddington all starting from Exeter this afternoon/evening due to staff shortage.

Not great.

I would hope that there are suitable connections/alternatives being arranged to get people to Exeter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 06, 2022, 08:25:42
1715,1915,1948,2015 Plymouth to Paddington all starting from Exeter this afternoon/evening due to staff shortage.

Not great.

I would hope that there are suitable connections/alternatives being arranged to get people to Exeter.
Looking at RTT, there’s nothing else timetabled between Plymouth and Exeter other than what’s listed above. Last train could connect for London is the 18.27 XC service. Next train after that 21.22! No connection to any London services.

I would expect at least one reinstatement later today or there’s going to be quite a few busses needed. The 19.15 and 19.48 are also both connections from Cornwall so not just Plymouth, Totnes and Newton Abbott passengers affected.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2022, 10:50:03
1715,1915,1948,2015 Plymouth to Paddington all starting from Exeter this afternoon/evening due to staff shortage.

Not great.

I would hope that there are suitable connections/alternatives being arranged to get people to Exeter.
Looking at RTT, there’s nothing else timetabled between Plymouth and Exeter other than what’s listed above. Last train could connect for London is the 18.27 XC service. Next train after that 21.22! No connection to any London services.

I would expect at least one reinstatement later today or there’s going to be quite a few busses needed. The 19.15 and 19.48 are also both connections from Cornwall so not just Plymouth, Totnes and Newton Abbott passengers affected.

From GWR Twitter;

"We are advising customers to travel on the earlier services as there will be no rail replacement transport between Plymouth - Exeter St Davids. Please check your journey and travel on the earlier available services but we have confirmation that the 1715 will now run" - if you can't get that one however it's "speak to station staff" which doesn't bode well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 06, 2022, 13:25:11
Good news, the 17.15, 19.48 and 20.15 are now running, though at one point late this morning it wasn’t looking good at all:

From GWR Twitter:

Due to a shortage of staff on the Plymouth and Exeter St Davids route, the line will be closed from 17:20 this evening.
We are unable to run bus replacement services on this route and ticket acceptance will be announced later this afternoon.


40 minutes later. Again, from GWR Twitter:

Services from Plymouth to Exeter St Davids will now run at 1715, 1948 and 2015.





Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2022, 13:33:14
Great that they’ve all been reinstated bar one…very poor that JourneyCheck is once again being fed dubious gen.

Time and time again messages posted at silly o’clock in the morning end up being completely wrong later in the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on March 06, 2022, 13:47:11
Great that they’ve all been reinstated bar one…very poor that JourneyCheck is once again being fed dubious gen.

Time and time again messages posted at silly o’clock in the morning end up being completely wrong later in the day.

What irks me more, though, is that Trainline will have picked up those messages and emailed pax affected to say that their train has been cancelled. Some folk will panic, make alternative arrangements and then find that their compensation claim will be refused because the train ran.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2022, 14:05:58
Great that they’ve all been reinstated bar one…very poor that JourneyCheck is once again being fed dubious gen.

Time and time again messages posted at silly o’clock in the morning end up being completely wrong later in the day.

What irks me more, though, is that Trainline will have picked up those messages and emailed pax affected to say that their train has been cancelled. Some folk will panic, make alternative arrangements and then find that their compensation claim will be refused because the train ran.

I am sure that these systemic issues will be amongst those picked up and swiftly addressed by the incoming "Service Quality Regime"....... ;)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 06, 2022, 14:35:50
Great that they’ve all been reinstated bar one…very poor that JourneyCheck is once again being fed dubious gen.

Time and time again messages posted at silly o’clock in the morning end up being completely wrong later in the day.

What irks me more, though, is that Trainline will have picked up those messages and emailed pax affected to say that their train has been cancelled. Some folk will panic, make alternative arrangements and then find that their compensation claim will be refused because the train ran.

The cynical part of me asks if the information about cancellations could be more accurate if it was only published after the time the train should have run - getting it a higher accuracy score.   You would (rightly) suggest that's a silly idea because the information would then be too late to inform the people who need to know - however, there's a parallel here with engineering posters telling you about past engineering works.

I have seen a number of posters telling people about the planned engineering changes during me travels in the last few days.   Posters at Trowbridge at 07:30 on 2nd March, at Bath Spa at 08:04 on 5th March and at Clifton Down at 09:41 on 5th March all told of engineering works for the four weeks up to and including 25th February.  The only poster I saw for the current 4 week period was at (I think - I didn't log it at the time) at Bristol Temple Meads.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 06, 2022, 16:27:28
Great that they’ve all been reinstated bar one…very poor that JourneyCheck is once again being fed dubious gen.

Time and time again messages posted at silly o’clock in the morning end up being completely wrong later in the day.
Or no gen at all. 17.15 still showing as cancelled on RTT and on the Plymouth departure board but not listed as not running between Plymouth and Exeter on Journeycheck. Also GWR social media listed this service as now running. Good job the 17.45 IS running. ::)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 06, 2022, 16:55:42
RTT now shows only the 17:15 as cancelled, with the other trains to Paddington all running. That's: 17:45, 18:15, 19:15, 19:48, 20:15.

JourneyCheck lists the 17:15 and 19:15 as both cancelled.

The CIS on Tiger shows the same (and now covers past 20:15).

So Twitter is not keeping up. I wonder, do its users think it is definitive? If they do, GWR should include it in their system that automatically updates all information sources together. Of course they've got one of those, haven't they?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2022, 17:13:30
RTT now shows only the 17:15 as cancelled, with the other trains to Paddington all running. That's: 17:45, 18:15, 19:15, 19:48, 20:15.

JourneyCheck lists the 17:15 and 19:15 as both cancelled.

The CIS on Tiger shows the same (and now covers past 20:15).

So Twitter is not keeping up. I wonder, do its users think it is definitive? If they do, GWR should include it in their system that automatically updates all information sources together. Of course they've got one of those, haven't they?

One of the issues this morning was that the GWR Twitter operator was insisting that they weren't aware of the problem and had to have the information on their website brought to their attention by customers.

GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 06, 2022, 17:18:49
RTT now shows only the 17:15 as cancelled, with the other trains to Paddington all running. That's: 17:45, 18:15, 19:15, 19:48, 20:15.

JourneyCheck lists the 17:15 and 19:15 as both cancelled.

The CIS on Tiger shows the same (and now covers past 20:15).

So Twitter is not keeping up. I wonder, do its users think it is definitive? If they do, GWR should include it in their system that automatically updates all information sources together. Of course they've got one of those, haven't they?
The 17.15 only just recently reappearing back on Journeycheck. It wasn’t there when I posted just before 4.30pm


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 06, 2022, 18:03:13
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce

Can we have a volunteer to go down to Exeter St Davids and report back?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: PhilWakely on March 06, 2022, 18:09:52
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce

Can we have a volunteer to go down to Exeter St Davids and report back?

Not seen in person, but RTT shows both 1A90 and 1A96 starting at Par rather Exeter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on March 06, 2022, 18:16:42
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce

Can we have a volunteer to go down to Exeter St Davids and report back?

Not seen in person, but RTT shows both 1A90 and 1A96 starting at Par rather Exeter.

Shouldn't that be "Par rather than Penzance"? Due to the weekend possession, and not affecting them as services from Exeter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2022, 20:33:47
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce

Can we have a volunteer to go down to Exeter St Davids and report back?

Where's Broadgage's Crystal ball when we need it?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2022, 22:37:28
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce.

And that is how it eventually panned out, so scheduled alternatives departed 31 mins later at 17:46 and 53 mins later at 20:07, the latter being the 19:48 which was 19 minutes late as the driver that was stepped up to work it brought in 2A98, the 19:42 arrival from St. Austell which was 21 minutes late arriving.  It looks like they were originally the Penzance depot driver for the afternoon and did overtime to work the 19:48 from Plymouth to Exeter.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2022, 05:28:00
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce.

And that is how it eventually panned out, so scheduled alternatives departed 31 mins later at 17:46 and 53 mins later at 20:07, the latter being the 19:48 which was 19 minutes late as the driver that was stepped up to work it brought in 2A98, the 19:42 arrival from St. Austell which was 21 minutes late arriving.  It looks like they were originally the Penzance depot driver for the afternoon and did overtime to work the 19:48 from Plymouth to Exeter.

Too early in the morning to fathom that one out!  :)

I wonder how many people will be attracted back to the railway for their leisure travel after yesterday's shambolic performance?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 07, 2022, 06:37:15
Problems again today. I can only think the shortage of crew is down to the engineering work going on in Cornwall between Truro and Penzance separating train crews.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on March 07, 2022, 10:32:32
Bath's MP tweeted about her experience with GWR up to London on Sunday evening. The following train cancelled + I think demand outstripping the, is it once an hour service.

https://twitter.com/Wera_Hobhouse/status/1500559421881081862

Mark


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on March 07, 2022, 11:09:46
GWR Journeycheck now shows the 1715 and 1915 starting from Exeter. It's a farce

Can we have a volunteer to go down to Exeter St Davids and report back?

Where's Broadgage's Crystal ball when we need it?

Crystal ball is fully booked predicting oil prices, gas prices, wars and the like.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 07, 2022, 11:47:48
Sadly it got the 'war' prediction wrong.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on March 07, 2022, 11:57:20
Sadly it got the 'war' prediction wrong.
As did many of the ex-military commentators talking about the Russian exercise build up


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on March 07, 2022, 12:00:06
Bath's MP tweeted about her experience with GWR up to London on Sunday evening. The following train cancelled + I think demand outstripping the, is it once an hour service.

https://twitter.com/Wera_Hobhouse/status/1500559421881081862

Mark

Interesting follow up within that thread:

Quote
Q: Why do so many people travel up to London on a Sunday evening?

A: Very expensive to travel first thing on a Monday, David.

Has the "peak / off peak" thing become a perversity which achieves the opposite of the load balancing that I understood to have been its initial intent?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 07, 2022, 12:03:13
Sadly it got the 'war' prediction wrong.
As did many of the ex-military commentators talking about the Russian exercise build up

Indeed.  A bit like Covid-19, making any predictions is complete guess work.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 07, 2022, 12:12:13
Bath's MP tweeted about her experience with GWR up to London on Sunday evening. The following train cancelled + I think demand outstripping the, is it once an hour service.

https://twitter.com/Wera_Hobhouse/status/1500559421881081862

Mark

Interesting follow up within that thread:

I'm afraid most of the follow ups in that thread are the usual mixture of confirmation/political bias, blaming the wrong people, contradictory statements, and completely irrelevant reasons.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 13, 2022, 19:36:24
Cancellations between Plymouth & Truro

Due to a shortage of train crew between Plymouth and Truro:
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Further Information
Customers travelling between Plymouth and Penzance this evening please be advised there are multiple alterations that have been made owing to a shortage of train crew. Customers are advised to speak to station staff at Plymouth and Truro for further information regarding onward travel/connections.

Customers travelling from intermediate stations between Plymouth and Truro please be aware that road transport is replacing a few of the final services between Plymouth and Truro this evening. If you need further assistance, please trigger one of the available help points that can be found on our platforms at our stations.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on March 14, 2022, 03:41:20
The day didn't start off well either, as overrunning engineering between Newton Abbot and Exeter resulted in a few early trains running up to 65 minutes late (as viewed from RTT).
As it was a Sunday, there were less trains, so I believe around 10h30 things began to catch up on time.
That could have also resulted in a few crew sets being out of position, and late, of course.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on March 14, 2022, 03:45:12
Today (Monday) isn't starting too well either.
A few already cancelled with staff shortages; several short forms and short runs.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on March 14, 2022, 05:22:31
Sadly it got the 'war' prediction wrong.

Indeed, I was expecting not a blatant full scale invasion as is underway, but some type of workers uprising or coup, with the new regime "working closely with Russia" In the interests of peace and security.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 27, 2022, 17:53:15

Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads fewer trains are able to run.

Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Owing to a shortage of train crew there will be a greatly reduced frequency of train services between London Paddington, Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads in both directions. Where possible other train services may make additional stops or use alternative routes to provide the best travel opportunities that we are able to offer given the circumstances.

Those services which do operate over the route will be much busier than normal.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on March 27, 2022, 18:13:42
Ew. Impressive holes in the timetable to/from Paddington this evening.

Mark


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on March 27, 2022, 20:09:52
Ew. Impressive holes in the timetable to/from Paddington this evening.

Mark
Yeah an impressive three hour gap between 1600-1900 between Bristol and Paddington right slap bang during the Sunday afternoon/evening peak return to London. Queue scenes of packed platforms and trains at Bristol, Bath and Chippenham.

Travelling on a Sunday continues to be a complete lottery.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on March 27, 2022, 20:26:41
I had the other scourge of weekend travelling today - over-running engineering work.

On the first up train from Swindon, I noticed about three minutes from departure the platform screen changed from “On time” to the dreaded “Delayed”.  So I was surprised when we then pulled out on time.  It transpired control were trying to keep the train in the station but weren’t quick enough.

We headed east until we approached Uffington where we came to a halt.  Engineers had run into a problem replacing a set of points overnight.  Problems were compounded because the driver couldn’t communicate with the signaller via the in cab radio and had to keep climbing down to use the signal post telephone.  After sitting for half an hour we then made our way to Didcot. 

The drama didn’t end though. The train was terminated at Didcot Parkway because of the faulty cab handset and we had to change to an alternative service to reach Reading.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 27, 2022, 21:05:44
Ew. Impressive holes in the timetable to/from Paddington this evening.

Mark
Yeah an impressive three hour gap between 1600-1900 between Bristol and Paddington right slap bang during the Sunday afternoon/evening peak return to London. Queue scenes of packed platforms and trains at Bristol, Bath and Chippenham.

Travelling on a Sunday continues to be a complete lottery.

Yes I've seen pictures of the scenes at Bath and the massively overcrowded trains/people left behind. Bad day for travellers but a good day for COVID!



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 17, 2022, 10:00:45
Perhaps predictably, services taking a bit of a hammering with cancellations and short runs today due to staff shortage - very short in some cases!

South West seems worst affected but by no means exclusively.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on April 17, 2022, 11:56:24
A new strain of Covid perhaps.

Holidayweekendicron.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 17, 2022, 13:34:43
Cancellations to services between Taunton and Reading

Due to a shortage of train crew between Taunton and Reading fewer trains are able to run on the line towards Reading.
Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 18:00 17/04


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 17, 2022, 13:36:08
Perhaps predictably, services taking a bit of a hammering with cancellations and short runs today due to staff shortage - very short in some cases!

South West seems worst affected but by no means exclusively.
Was to be expected sadly. With tomorrow being a bank holiday, hopefully not so many are making the trek back to London from the South West as they usually would on a Sunday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: 1st fan on April 17, 2022, 20:49:41
On a train back from Moreton In Marsh today it was originally booked as a 9 car and people had reserved seats etc. It wasn’t a 9 car it was a five and therefore no reservations were happening and to boot the train was fairly full before we got to Oxford. The nice Train Manager having sold me a weekend 1st upgrade then came back and told me after Oxford that as there was now serious overcrowding on the train he was declassifying my carriage. He apologised and I was told best thing to do was move into the other smaller 1st carriage as there were still seats in there. He apologised over the tannoy for the lack of a 9 car train, reservations and the overcrowding onboard. Said he thought the engineering works north of Moreton were the reason for the short form. He said he was declassifying coach D and that there were seats there if you held a standard class ticket.

Weirdly though when we left Reading another GWR bloke came through checking tickets again. That’s despite the original train manager still being on the train. Seemed a bit odd to have two train managers on one train and a tad wasteful given the alleged shortages elsewhere.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 17, 2022, 22:50:11
Weirdly though when we left Reading another GWR bloke came through checking tickets again. That’s despite the original train manager still being on the train. Seemed a bit odd to have two train managers on one train and a tad wasteful given the alleged shortages elsewhere.

RPI's do ticket checks on trains as well.  Could this bloke have been an RPI?  Not too unusual to have more than one TM on board for sections of the journey though - that's just the nature of rostering sometimes.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: 1st fan on April 18, 2022, 16:05:20
Weirdly though when we left Reading another GWR bloke came through checking tickets again. That’s despite the original train manager still being on the train. Seemed a bit odd to have two train managers on one train and a tad wasteful given the alleged shortages elsewhere.

RPI's do ticket checks on trains as well.  Could this bloke have been an RPI?  Not too unusual to have more than one TM on board for sections of the journey though - that's just the nature of rostering sometimes.
Yeah I did think it might not be a TM but he said he was a TM when another passenger asked. I’ll bow to your superior knowledge on rostering.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 15, 2022, 08:55:27
Doesn't bode well for the summer does it?

All cancelled - there are a load of short runs listed too - worth bearing in mind that many of these are the very tourist routes to which the railway desperately needs reliability to attract leisure travellers.

08:51 Exeter St Davids to Penzance due 11:59
08:54 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach due 09:31
09:55 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 12:29
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 12:35
11:02 Bristol Temple Meads to Taunton due 11:55
11:23 Plymouth to Newquay due 12:56
12:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:46
12:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 14:47
13:20 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 14:06
13:40 Plymouth to Penzance due 15:36
14:11 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 14:56
14:56 Plymouth to London Paddington due 18:36
15:30 London Paddington to Taunton due 18:04
15:40 Plymouth to Penzance due 17:36
15:50 Penzance to Plymouth due 17:39
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:06
16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:08
16:52 Paignton to London Paddington due 20:05
17:35 Par to Newquay due 18:29
17:44 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 18:30
18:15 Penzance to Plymouth due 20:09
18:34 Newquay to Par due 19:23
18:35 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 19:20
18:58 Taunton to London Paddington due 21:36
19:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:14
19:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:14
19:31 Par to Newquay due 20:23
19:35 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:20
19:35 Barnstaple to Exeter St Davids due 20:40
19:55 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 20:19
20:01 Plymouth to Gunnislake due 20:47
20:17 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:17
20:21 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 20:46
20:27 Newquay to Par due 21:12
20:52 Gunnislake to Plymouth due 21:37
21:18 Exeter St Davids to Okehampton due 21:55
21:26 Plymouth to Exeter St Davids due 22:32
21:36 Barnstaple to Exeter St Davids due 22:50
22:01 Okehampton to Exeter St Davids due 22:37
22:05 Truro to Falmouth Docks due 22:29
22:33 Falmouth Docks to Truro due 22:59


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: RichardB on May 15, 2022, 10:03:15
Let's hope that a few of those turns can still be covered, even with so little time left to do so.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 15, 2022, 10:44:53
Worth noting that among that list are both the Summer only direct trains to London from Newquay.  That leaves a six and a half hour gap from North Cornwall.  If you are heading to London the last connection (ahead of the sleeper) means you'd need to leave on the 11:56 unless you want to rely on the road transport that is in the process of being arranged.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 15, 2022, 15:02:42
Worth noting that among that list are both the Summer only direct trains to London from Newquay.  That leaves a six and a half hour gap from North Cornwall.  If you are heading to London the last connection (ahead of the sleeper) means you'd need to leave on the 11:56 unless you want to rely on the road transport that is in the process of being arranged.

Frankly that's appalling - once again the message is you can't rely on the railway to get you there.

This just noted;

Cancellations to services between Par and Newquay
Due to a shortage of train crew disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Train services between Par and Newquay will be cancelled.

Additional Information
Owing to a shortage of train crew services on the Newquay line have been suspended.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 15, 2022, 15:19:13
Not a great start to the new Summer timetable sadly  :(

Heading to London from Bristol TM, Bath and Chippenham later this afternoon into the early evening isn’t looking great with the 1630, 1700 and 1900 off Bristol all canned.

I would suggest the 1730 and 2000 services are best avoided. At least they are both 10 car services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Mark A on May 15, 2022, 17:08:15
Met a friend off the slightly late Weymouth train at Bath. A lot of people travelling. The 16:13 to Paddington looked to be fullish as it came in, with a very busy platform of people joining it too.

Mark


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 29, 2022, 07:46:13
So as the half term holiday begins, services to/from Penzance, Paignton, Newquay etc are cancelled or foreshortened due to staff shortage - once again, great message to send to leisure travellers.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on May 29, 2022, 08:00:14
So as the half term holiday begins, services to/from Penzance, Paignton, Newquay etc are cancelled or foreshortened due to staff shortage - once again, great message to send to leisure travellers.

I do not know the exact reason for GWR staff shortages, I do know there is a large amount of pent-up leave from the Covid period, many rail staff have leave carried over from 2020 and 2021 which has to be used by the end of 2022.  They will want to go away on holiday with their families which means school holidays in many cases.

Also, with there being a high risk of industrial action booking leave and having in granted during that industrial action can be a problem, therefore railstaff may be taking a holiday now.

There are also vacancies in some key rolls in the industry, add this to the demand for leave it all adds up to cancellations.

Yes managers will endeavour to ensure there is sufficient cover however they are also acutely aware of the mental health and wellbeing of their staff


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 29, 2022, 09:03:15
So as the half term holiday begins, services to/from Penzance, Paignton, Newquay etc are cancelled or foreshortened due to staff shortage - once again, great message to send to leisure travellers.

I do not know the exact reason for GWR staff shortages, I do know there is a large amount of pent-up leave from the Covid period, many rail staff have leave carried over from 2020 and 2021 which has to be used by the end of 2022.  They will want to go away on holiday with their families which means school holidays in many cases.

Also, with there being a high risk of industrial action booking leave and having in granted during that industrial action can be a problem, therefore railstaff may be taking a holiday now.

There are also vacancies in some key rolls in the industry, add this to the demand for leave it all adds up to cancellations.

Yes managers will endeavour to ensure there is sufficient cover however they are also acutely aware of the mental health and wellbeing of their staff

I would pay good money to be on the platform when a member of staff, with a straight face, explains to a load of stranded passengers that the reason for the cancellation of their train is due to staff taking a holiday now because they will be on strike in a few weeks.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 29, 2022, 09:22:46
I don’t think that’s the reason.  It’s just the same reason(s) as every year.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 29, 2022, 09:25:09
I don’t think that’s the reason.  It’s just the same reason(s) as every year.

It wouldn't surprise me - perhaps any increased pay offer made to avoid the strike could be conditional on Sundays being within the working week for all - two birds killed with one stone and an end to this annual nonsense -  I for one would contribute a packet of sausages to the celebratory BBQ if that could be achieved!!!  :)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 29, 2022, 09:46:15
Feel free to suggest that to the DfT’s negotiating team, but I don’t think they are interested and are quite content to see a few cancellations to avoid having to pay more staffing costs to bring Sundays into the working week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on May 29, 2022, 11:03:22
I don’t think that’s the reason.  It’s just the same reason(s) as every year.

It wouldn't surprise me - perhaps any increased pay offer made to avoid the strike could be conditional on Sundays being within the working week for all - two birds killed with one stone and an end to this annual nonsense -  I for one would contribute a packet of sausages to the celebratory BBQ if that could be achieved!!!  :)

The change in the TnC's is part of the negations  ............. however .....

Feel free to suggest that to the DfT’s negotiating team, but I don’t think they are interested and are quite content to see a few cancellations to avoid having to pay more staffing costs to bring Sundays into the working week.

As II mentions the DfT are not keen on the price tag


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 05, 2022, 14:57:44
Another pretty awful performance today due to staff shortage, especially to/from the South West.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 05, 2022, 19:34:29
Especially with people returning from the Jubilee Pageant!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 05, 2022, 22:23:58
Especially with people returning from the Jubilee Pageant!
And for those heading back to the smoke after the long weekend/half term holiday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 24, 2022, 21:13:02
Sunday’s cancellations/part route cancellations already appearing on Journeycheck.

Hope that doesn’t spoil TG’s usual Sunday morning review, though I suspect there will be more by then  ::)

EDIT Since writing the above, both lists have grown quite considerably. Carries on like this, it might be easier to list what’s running rather than what’s not. SW taking another big hit to services.

Is this a result of traincrew being banned from working overtime as a result of striking or staff making themselves unavailable as part of continued unofficial protest?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 24, 2022, 22:57:53
Quote from: Timmer
Is this a result of traincrew being banned from working overtime as a result of striking or staff making themselves unavailable as part of continued unofficial protest?

I did say before in the TransWilts thread, but to clarify, there are no changes to Sunday/RDW agreements on non-strike days as a result of the RMT action.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2022, 07:09:13
No need for a "Sunday morning review" today, it's quite unequivocal!

All that picketing yesterday must have worn everyone out I guess.

Good luck to anyone relying on GWR today...................... ::)

Cancellations to services on all routes

Due to a shortage of train crew between London Paddington and Penzance fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice

Please be advised that due to a shortage of train crew many trains across the GWR network are unable to run today. In some areas of the network, road transport will replace trains (your GWR rail ticket will be valid on the road transport). If you require further assistance, please be sure to check www.gwr.com where you can check which trains are running and plan your journey. Alternatively you may contact our social media team by visiting www.twitter.com/gwrhelp where one of our colleagues will assist you. You may also speak with a member of train crew or station staff for further advice and help. Finally, if you're travelling from an unstaffed station, you may use one of the available customer help-points that can be found on our platforms. We apologise for any inconvenience caused to your journey with us today.

CrossCountry are conveying passengers between Exeter St Davids and Penzance in both directions until further notice. Arrangements have been made for Great Western Railway rail tickets to be accepted for these journeys.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 03, 2022, 10:17:17
Another ropey (and deteriorating) Sunday for the South West due to staff shortage - if I was heading to/from Paignton or Newquay I really wouldn't even consider the train - Paignton especially seems to be the first to get chopped every time.

.........and here comes the summer, when GWR should be going all out attracting leisure travel.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2022, 19:45:29
.........and here comes the summer, when GWR should be going all out attracting leisure travel.

To be honest, even if all trains are running and at their proper full length, we really don’t need to attract any more leisure travellers at the weekend.  I’ve never known it so busy.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: REVUpminster on July 04, 2022, 09:24:23
The 1705 Paignton Paddington was cancelled Saturday and I was amazed when at Paignton Station to see the tour (to Taunton as steam) special to Poole that the recorded announcer advising passengers to get on it as the quickest way to Taunton. The tour train left 11 minutes early delaying a local Exmouth service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 23, 2022, 07:02:20
......amongst other cancellations due to crew shortage on the first weekend of the school summer holidays, this one particularly stands out........ ::)


11:37 London Paddington to Newquay due 16:42

11:37 London Paddington to Newquay due 16:42 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 23, 2022, 17:19:12
......amongst other cancellations due to crew shortage on the first weekend of the school summer holidays, this one particularly stands out........ ::)


11:37 London Paddington to Newquay due 16:42

11:37 London Paddington to Newquay due 16:42 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

The reliability of the Newquay and Paignton weekend trains has been appalling.  Of that there is no argument.

However, there is logic behind cancelling that train instead of others.

The 12:04 Paddington to Penzance follows it until Par (where the Newquay branch splits off) arriving at 16:05, 9 minutes after the cancelled Newquay service would normally have left.  GWR ran an additional 15:30 Plymouth to Newquay service scheduled to depart Par at 16:14 arriving Newquay at 17:00, instead of the original train at 16:42, so only an 18 minute 'delay' on the through journey.  The 12:04 would have course have been a busy train in its own right, but was a 10-car - the longest that can operate, and it does miss out a couple of stops en-route (Westbury and Tiverton Parkway).

Now, not everything goes to plan.  It turns out that the previous Paddington to Penzance train was delayed at Paddington and didn't leave until 11:38, and almost ran in the path of the cancelled 11:37.  That too was a 10-car so would have helped spread the load of the 11:37 onto two trains rather than one.  That was fortunate.  The 12:04 ran behind it arriving Par 8 minutes late and that caused the additional train from Plymouth to leave Par 10 minutes late, and arrive Newquay 6 mins late so actually a 24 minute delay on the through journey.  The additional train was a 2-car Class 150 so might have been quite full from Par as there were 111 reserved seats to Newquay on the original train (not all from Paddington), including 12 1st ones with no 1st class provided on the 150s.

Not a perfect solution, but perhaps a useful indication of why that particular train was cancelled?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 06, 2022, 06:07:43
Saturday 6th August 2022 - Cancelled - all due to "a shortage of train crew"

Quote
06:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 07:22
06:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 09:34
07:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:35
07:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:29

Also:
Quote
08:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:31
08:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:31 will be started from Reading and terminated at Gloucester.
It will no longer call at London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa.
It will be delayed at Didcot Parkway by 3 minutes, will be further delayed at Swindon and is expected to be 6 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5. First class not available. There are no reservations on this service throughout. Toilet facilities are reduced at both ends.

I make that five IET (?)drivers down off Paddington.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 06, 2022, 07:28:54
Saturday 6th August 2022 - Cancelled - all due to "a shortage of train crew"

Quote
06:20 London Paddington to Oxford due 07:22
06:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 09:34
07:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 08:35
07:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:29

Also:
Quote
08:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:31
08:28 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:31 will be started from Reading and terminated at Gloucester.
It will no longer call at London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa.
It will be delayed at Didcot Parkway by 3 minutes, will be further delayed at Swindon and is expected to be 6 minutes late.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 5. First class not available. There are no reservations on this service throughout. Toilet facilities are reduced at both ends.

I make that five IET (?)drivers down off Paddington.


This now seems to be becoming a Saturday issue as well as just Sundays.............Cheltenham and Paignton seem to be the services which particularly suffer (although by no means the only ones) .............but allowing the St Ives branch to be short staffed? On a Saturday? In August?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 06, 2022, 09:15:31
Eh? There’s no cancellations on that branch (are there?)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 06, 2022, 10:00:22
.............but allowing the St Ives branch to be short staffed? On a Saturday? In August?

Eh? There’s no cancellations on that branch (are there?)

There were while you were sleeping  :D - First departure from St Ives at 09:06 rather than 07:30 this morning - two round trips lost.

In emergency situations, perhaps there's something to be said for dropping a single round trip every few hours to allow for a crew break.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on August 06, 2022, 10:14:36
Those early cancellations mean the normal service of two trains a day for Lelant Saltings is reduced to one - and you've missed it - it was at 09:13.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 06, 2022, 10:33:33
.............but allowing the St Ives branch to be short staffed? On a Saturday? In August?

Eh? There’s no cancellations on that branch (are there?)



In emergency situations, perhaps there's something to be said for dropping a single round trip every few hours to allow for a crew break.



What was the emergency?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 07, 2022, 09:45:02
Not too bad today. The usual SW semifasts canned with the fasts making additional stops, though I suspect some of these trains may be somewhat cozy being peak summer.

If you’re travelling on the Plymouth to Gunnislake line this afternoon and evening, your journey will be by taxi.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 07, 2022, 14:29:27
Not too bad today. The usual SW semifasts canned with the fasts making additional stops, though I suspect some of these trains may be somewhat cozy being peak summer.
Yup, as expected both the 12.03 and 13.03 Fasts reported as ‘full and standing’.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 07, 2022, 17:27:58
....as above

Due to a shortage of train crew at Plymouth disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Train services between Plymouth and Gunnislake have been suspended.

Customer Advice

Were sorry for the disruption to your journey today.

Owing to a shortage of train crew we have had to suspend services between Plymouth and Gunnislake.

Looks like they're trying to source taxis.......anyone who's tried to do similar in Plymouth in recent times will know it may well involve a long & uncertain wait.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 08, 2022, 15:53:41
.............but allowing the St Ives branch to be short staffed? On a Saturday? In August?

Eh? There’s no cancellations on that branch (are there?)



In emergency situations, perhaps there's something to be said for dropping a single round trip every few hours to allow for a crew break.



What was the emergency?
Covid.
War in Ukraine.
Hot weather.
Lack of trains.
Lack of staff.
Plague of locusts.
Exploding pigeons.

Take your pick.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 08, 2022, 16:01:43


Take your pick.

I am reminded of Reginald Perrin:
defective bogey at Earlsfield.
water seeping through the cables at Effingham Junction.
black ice at Norbiton
obstacles on the line at Berrylands.
badger ate a junction box at New Malden.
fed up by train delays, came by bike. Slow puncture at Peckham.
escaped puma, Chessington North.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 08, 2022, 17:14:01


Take your pick.

I am reminded of Reginald Perrin:
defective bogey at Earlsfield.
water seeping through the cables at Effingham Junction.
black ice at Norbiton
obstacles on the line at Berrylands.
badger ate a junction box at New Malden.
fed up by train delays, came by bike. Slow puncture at Peckham.
escaped puma, Chessington North.

I didn't get where I am today by being reminded of Reginald Perrin.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2022, 07:32:19
.......Sunday morning and as at 0730 there are none of the usual thick red lines of numerous crew shortage cancellations on the map.........in fact none (yet) - intriguing.........


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2022, 08:29:27
.......Sunday morning and as at 0730 there are none of the usual thick red lines of numerous crew shortage cancellations on the map.........in fact none (yet) - intriguing.........

I was reading a BBC article a couple of weeks ago ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62638908 ) concerning a growing trend for people to do their contracted job and no more, and wonder if that's something we've been seeing in railway staffing circles.  Perhaps with the major news this week and the country thrown into new territory for all but the very oldest of us, people are taking a more pragmatic view and opting to staff rotas where there would have been shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2022, 09:52:56
.......Sunday morning and as at 0730 there are none of the usual thick red lines of numerous crew shortage cancellations on the map.........in fact none (yet) - intriguing.........

I was reading a BBC article a couple of weeks ago ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62638908 ) concerning a growing trend for people to do their contracted job and no more, and wonder if that's something we've been seeing in railway staffing circles.  Perhaps with the major news this week and the country thrown into new territory for all but the very oldest of us, people are taking a more pragmatic view and opting to staff rotas where there would have been shortages.

Possibly, or perhaps more people had signed up to work this Sunday to make a few extra quid in anticipation of the strike action which had originally been planned for the coming week?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 11, 2022, 10:04:17
Things not looking so rosy on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line with cancellations and short workings now appearing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2022, 10:06:24
I think the problem has shifted to the Wessex Main Line today?

Quote
15:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 18:41
16:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 19:44

16:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 19:44 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Additional Information
We're sorry for any changes this brings to your travel plans today.

Quote
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:44
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:44 will be started from Westbury.

It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Additional Information
We're sorry for any changes this brings to your travel plans today.

So that's a gap from 13:08 to 17:08 in departures from Portsmouth Harbour, as far as Westbury.   And the additional information is "Sorry ...".



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 11, 2022, 10:53:37
.......Sunday morning and as at 0730 there are none of the usual thick red lines of numerous crew shortage cancellations on the map.........in fact none (yet) - intriguing.........

I was reading a BBC article a couple of weeks ago ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62638908 ) concerning a growing trend for people to do their contracted job and no more, and wonder if that's something we've been seeing in railway staffing circles.  Perhaps with the major news this week and the country thrown into new territory for all but the very oldest of us, people are taking a more pragmatic view and opting to staff rotas where there would have been shortages.

Possibly, or perhaps more people had signed up to work this Sunday to make a few extra quid in anticipation of the strike action which had originally been planned for the coming week?

Or just the fact that the main summer holiday period has now ended.

One example of how that can make a difference is that any drivers who are on their block summer leave of two weeks have to have the Sunday off in the middle whether they would have been rostered to work or not, or would usually volunteer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 11, 2022, 11:58:20
.......Sunday morning and as at 0730 there are none of the usual thick red lines of numerous crew shortage cancellations on the map.........in fact none (yet) - intriguing.........

Sadly, you wrote too soon.   Big gaps in Wessex Main Line services with successive cancellations, and gems like this:
Quote
11:03 Weymouth to Swindon due 13:29

11:03 Weymouth to Swindon due 13:29 will be terminated at Westbury.
It will no longer call at Trowbridge, Melksham, Chippenham and Swindon.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3.

Last Updated:11/09/2022 11:29
with the announcement of a train curtailed even after it has started its journey.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 11, 2022, 12:21:41
with the announcement of a train curtailed even after it has started its journey.

That can happen.  On a reasonably long journey there will often be crew changes en-route as you know.  If one of the relieving crew at, for example, Westbury is supposed to start their duty working that train, but phones in sick an hour or two before commencing duty, or their car breaks down on the way to work, or they have a family emergency, or a whole host of other reasons, then there may be no other option but to curtail the train.

The key of course is to have one or two standby drivers available...and that's often the case on weekdays or Sunday's in the depths of winter, but when other trains are already being cancelled because there aren't enough drivers/TM's, then there are obviously not going to be any standing by waiting in the wings.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 11, 2022, 12:54:48

Quote
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:44
14:08 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 17:44 will be started from Westbury.

It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury, Warminster and Dilton Marsh.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Additional Information
We're sorry for any changes this brings to your travel plans today.

So that's a gap from 13:08 to 17:08 in departures from Portsmouth Harbour, as far as Westbury.   And the additional information is "Sorry ...".
The 14:08 not running at all now.

Problems the other way as well with the 10:25, 11:25 and 12:25 ex Cardiff terminating at Westbury. There is an additional train from Westbury to Salisbury at 13:03 on the path of the 11:25 to help the situation a bit.

The 18:25 and 19:25 ex Cardiff starting at Westbury.

Clearly a train crew shortage at Westbury today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2022, 15:10:19
Not just traincrew - from the GWR Twitter feed;

⚠️Our Twitter and Whatsapp support will be unavailable until 0600 on Monday 12th September. We are really sorry for the inconvenience this may cause


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 11, 2022, 17:31:30
.....so much for this morning's optimistic start!

(Sorry Graham!)

Alterations to services between Swindon and Westbury

Due to a shortage of train crew between Swindon and Westbury the line is closed.

Train services running through these stations will be suspended between Swindon and Westbury. Melksham will not be served. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
We are currently requesting buses to replace cancelled trains on Melksham route. More information about this will be shared once we have it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on September 11, 2022, 17:51:37
Not just traincrew - from the GWR Twitter feed;

⚠️Our Twitter and Whatsapp support will be unavailable until 0600 on Monday 12th September. We are really sorry for the inconvenience this may cause

Happened yesterday too due to a shortage of Twitter Crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on December 18, 2022, 07:19:58
Looking at the above map covered in red and the long list of cancellations and alterations on Journeycheck, I wish everyone travelling by train today all the very best. What an absolute mess of a service.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 18, 2022, 08:12:40
Sundays are worked via Rest Day working/overtime. Thus many depot staff won’t be working owing to the overtime ban (January 2) - just as well there are no trains this timenext week, it would be carnage, regardless of date.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 18, 2022, 08:30:44
Sundays are worked via Rest Day working/overtime. Thus many depot staff won’t be working owing to the overtime ban (January 2) - just as well there are no trains this timenext week, it would be carnage, regardless of date.

It should not be carnage, though.

It should be a full timetable that customers can rely on, all be it busy.  The rail employers, the unions and the government should be working (and should have worked) together to provide a robust service to a specification drawn up (a "published timetable") several months ahead.  A failure to do so is a collective failure on the part of all of those groups of professionals to provide the service their customers should be able to rely on.

I accept that there will be changes to the regular timetable, planned well in advance, for engineering works schedules to take part at the quietest time of year on some lines.  And I accept that weather related and other occasional events may lead to short term changes - be that icicles in Chipping Sodbury Tunnel, Swans on the line at Bath Spa, or a 1000 year event like floodwaters lapping the rails on Wharncliffe Viaduct.

Edit to correct typo



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on December 18, 2022, 09:20:20
If you hadn’t noticed, there os industrial action going on every day until January 8.

The unions intention is to cause carnage. In places there will be carnage. You can’t support the staff in the dispute without also expecting carnage.

If you want proper carnage, see Chiltern’s offering today. Or don’t bother, they aren’t offering single train. To anywhere. You’re lucky.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 18, 2022, 12:17:07
If you hadn’t noticed, there os industrial action going on every day until January 8.

The unions intention is to cause carnage. In places there will be carnage. You can’t support the staff in the dispute without also expecting carnage.

If you want proper carnage, see Chiltern’s offering today. Or don’t bother, they aren’t offering single train. To anywhere. You’re lucky.

Yeah, I think all members here had noticed.  The unions, the train operators and behind the scenes perhaps the government using the TOCs as puppets continue to slug it out, placing the blame on each other.

At 10:42 this morning (Sunday 18th December 2022) from JourneyCheck:

Quote
Alterations to services on all routes

Due to industrial action:

Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network will be revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice

Trades unions have announced industrial action, including strike action and action short of strike, that will affect rail services on Sunday 18 December 2022, and from Saturday 24 December 2022 to Sunday 8 January 2023.

Following industrial action on Friday 16 & Saturday 17 December, train services will continue to be affected on Sunday 18 December. Trains will start later and there will be short-notice cancellations and alterations.

I do question what the cancellation rate would be like today if we did not have this ongoing dispute, and I suspect it there would be significant cancellations.    Last year at this time, there were cancellations due to lack of crew (just on the Swindon to Westbury service which I monitor) on 16th, 17th, 19th, 20th, 22nd and 23rd December.  Are GWR using the industrial dispute as a convenient way of taking the focus off their own problems?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 19, 2022, 06:58:26
In addition to staff shortages and train failures there's flooding in Devon and several points failures (which are now starting to look endemic) to add to the fun for the start of the new week - good luck to anyone travelling today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 19, 2022, 09:58:43
In addition to staff shortages and train failures there's flooding in Devon and several points failures (which are now starting to look endemic) to add to the fun for the start of the new week - good luck to anyone travelling today.

Looking better now ...

Quote
Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Totnes

Following a river flooding the railway between Plymouth and Totnes all lines have now reopened.

Train services running through these stations will be cancelled or delayed by up to 60 minutes. Disruption is expected until 14:00 19/12.

Customer Advice
**CUSTOMER ADVICE TO NOT TRAVEL HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN - lines have reopened.**


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 31, 2022, 09:33:16
A fair number of full/part cancellations today and an early finish generally for anyone planning a night out - whatever you are doing, have a good one and a better 2023 when hopefully the railways will sort themselves out....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on December 31, 2022, 22:59:37
... and a better 2023 when hopefully the railways will sort themselves out....

They're not starting well. One hopes the old way is up from this

Cancellations

Quote
Sun, 1 January 07:52 London Paddington to Penzance due 13:32
Sun, 1 January 08:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 13:20
Sun, 1 January 08:33 London Paddington to Swansea due 11:29
Sun, 1 January 09:12 Plymouth to London Paddington due 12:24
Sun, 1 January 09:33 London Paddington to Swansea due 12:22
Sun, 1 January 09:35 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 10:36
Sun, 1 January 10:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 15:15
Sun, 1 January 10:03 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 11:20
Sun, 1 January 10:36 Paignton to London Paddington due 13:53
Sun, 1 January 10:36 London Paddington to Newton Abbot due 13:26
Sun, 1 January 10:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 13:16
Sun, 1 January 11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 14:12
Sun, 1 January 12:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 15:09
Sun, 1 January 12:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 15:49
Sun, 1 January 13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 16:15
Sun, 1 January 13:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 16:10
Sun, 1 January 13:31 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa due 14:32
Sun, 1 January 13:56 Great Malvern to London Paddington due 16:29
Sun, 1 January 14:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:05
Sun, 1 January 14:13 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 16:24
Sun, 1 January 14:15 Plymouth to London Paddington due 17:24
Sun, 1 January 14:36 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 17:01
Sun, 1 January 15:01 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 16:59
Sun, 1 January 15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:13

01/01/23 15:03 London Paddington to Plymouth due 18:13 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Short runs

Quote
Sun, 1 January 08:27 Plymouth to London Paddington due 11:59
Sun, 1 January 08:51 London Paddington to Penzance due 14:06
Sun, 1 January 09:46 London Paddington to Hereford due 13:00
Sun, 1 January 10:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:24
Sun, 1 January 10:54 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:59
Sun, 1 January 11:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance due 16:28
Sun, 1 January 12:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:05
Sun, 1 January 13:46 London Paddington to Hereford due 16:59
Sun, 1 January 14:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:24
Sun, 1 January 14:46 London Paddington to Great Malvern due 17:16
Sun, 1 January 15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:36
Sun, 1 January 15:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 20:41
Sun, 1 January 15:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:10

01/01/23 15:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 18:10 will be started from Cardiff Central.
It will no longer call at Swansea, Neath, Port Talbot Parkway and Bridgend.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2023, 07:18:59
"Utterly shambolic" is being generous....what a start to 2023 - almost 200 full/part cancellations listed already with virtually no alternatives provided.......

Due to a shortage of train crew:

Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network have been cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.
Customer Advice
.
Due to the combination of reduced staff availability, the ongoing industrial action and severely reduced contingency options, intending customers are advised to find alternative ways to make their journey today.
.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please, only travel by train if absolutely necessary on Sunday 1 January.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
.
Trains will be very severely disrupted with a significantly reduced level of service throughout the day and there are likely to be further short notice alterations, cancellations and revisions to services. Some routes will experience consecutive train service cancellations / alterations. This will especially be the case on train services between London Paddington and the West Country (& return) and also along the Swindon - Melksham - Westbury route where we do not anticipate being able to operate any level of service. Kindly note that connections cannot be guaranteed and that it may not be possible to complete certain journeys today.
.
Those trains that do operate will be extremely busy. Online journey planners will be updated on a regular basis as alterations are input into the system so if you do have to travel on Sunday, we strongly advise you check your entire journey again prior to its commencement.
.
The supplier of our replacement road transport has advised us that being New Year's Day they are unable to procure vehicles to meet our needs and have reminded us that many local bus routes will themselves be operating to much reduced service levels. Our ability to offer contingency service provision in the vast majority of areas is remote so we are very unlikely to be able to offer any alternative road transport or supporting facilities.
.
If it assists in making your journey today GWR ticket holders may use CrossCountry services via any reasonable route but note that CrossCountry themselves are also having to amend their services.
.
We sincerely apologise for the significant disruption, and any changes this has brought to your travel plans today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 01, 2023, 07:19:25
Now up to 149 cancellations and 48 altered services. New Years Day falling on a Sunday and industrial action. The perfect storm.

Trying to travel to/from the Southwest of England today by train looks horrendous. What’s actually left running is going to be absolutely packed.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 01, 2023, 08:00:39
Industrial action?  I wasn’t aware of any industrial action taking place today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 01, 2023, 08:18:07
Industrial action?  I wasn’t aware of any industrial action taking place today.

I would agree with you.  There seems to be a propaganda war going on ... the system is failing to deliver a reliable service as planned, and I look to many parties for joint responsibility, but see each of them pointing at someone else.  Let's hope they can get their heads together very, very soon and sort out this mess ...


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 01, 2023, 08:29:59
Industrial action?  I wasn’t aware of any industrial action taking place today.
Overtime ban?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on January 01, 2023, 08:36:17
Totally agree.
Unfortunately the finger pointing is also going on between train operating companies and the Department for Transport.
The DfT are being told what they can pay by the Government who seem determined to sit this one out.
Not sure if the general public appreciate the Government are controlling this.
From what I've seen on this forum, the attrition is more to do with 'conditions' and less with pay.
I would not want any more creepage of driver only operations anywhere.  Indeed, would prefer a reduction in DOO.
Ticket offices need to be staffed wherever possible, not cut back.
I'm also sure there are other 'conditions' in the new contracts which would be detrimental to staff.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 01, 2023, 08:54:07
Industrial action?  I wasn’t aware of any industrial action taking place today.
Overtime ban?

Is an overtime ban really industrial action?  What you have is essentially staff working their contracted/rostered hours.

i can see this unfortunately going on for at least another year.  If the government aren’t prepared to sit down with NHS staff then us rail staff haven’t got a hope at present.
What I think also hampers progress is the government and RDG are negotiating with the RMT covering all TOCs. You would probably find progress would be a lot quicker if the individual TOCs were free to negotiate with the RMT. If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, you would probably find a 5% pay rise would be accepted.
It does need sorting urgently though. Morale is rock bottom, once that’s gone goodwill quickly vanishes well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2023, 08:56:01
Industrial action?  I wasn’t aware of any industrial action taking place today.

The RMT members are still on an overtime ban, this affects Network Rail Maintainers, Ops (Signallers, MOM's etc) and ToCs so trains that require a Guard / TM.

Therefore unless RMT members were rostered to work today, a Sunday, there could be a shortage of key staff, from a NR point of view the contingent cover is volunteer based with quite a large percentage on holiday over the Christmas week, also they will be needed next week from Tuesday when the NR RMT members are on strike effectively all week.

Happy (not) New Year ...................... meantime I'm sure our elected leaders are not in SW1A but have been enjoying a sunny beach somewhere


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2023, 09:08:42
Totally agree.
Unfortunately the finger pointing is also going on between train operating companies and the Department for Transport.
The DfT are being told what they can pay by the Government who seem determined to sit this one out.
Not sure if the general public appreciate the Government are controlling this.
From what I've seen on this forum, the attrition is more to do with 'conditions' and less with pay.
I would not want any more creepage of driver only operations anywhere.  Indeed, would prefer a reduction in DOO.
Ticket offices need to be staffed wherever possible, not cut back.
I'm also sure there are other 'conditions' in the new contracts which would be detrimental to staff.

Both/all sides need to compromise and this involves some changes in conditions - not least to resolve the ludicrous situation on Sundays.

I've said elsewhere that the arguments against DOO seem sound, but the insistence on retaining the status quo re ticket offices is absurd.

At the point of privatisation, 82% of tickets were purchased at ticket offices - they are now in inexorable decline and the figure is now around 13% - it is simply ridiculous not to reflect this and to expect their numbers to be maintained at the current or similar level.

As I've also said elsewhere, unfortunately all sides seem too entrenched and pig headed to move much - Bruvver Lynch is relishing his newly found celebrity status, whilst Government Ministers compete to demonstrate who has the largest testicles.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Wizard on January 01, 2023, 10:03:13
In previous years when ‘big’ dates such as New Year’s Day have fallen on a Sunday, an enhanced rate of pay was offered. I imagine the DfT put a stop to that this year, and as many traincrew have the option to not work it, they have decided not to bother this time.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2023, 10:13:44
.......given the chaos which was going on last night with the flooding near Totnes, and the meltdown which they could foresee this morning, I thought this was a nice customer service touch from GWR!  ::)

(The Twitter page proudly states "We are GWR. Here to help between 06:00 and 23:00, 7 days a week.
Let's get back on track!") Irony!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 01, 2023, 10:18:46
.......given the chaos which was going on last night with the flooding near Totnes, and the meltdown which they could foresee this morning, I thought this was a nice customer service touch from GWR!  ::)

(The Twitter page proudly states "We are GWR. Here to help between 06:00 and 23:00, 7 days a week.
Let's get back on track!") Irony!

I don’t quite understand the “flooding” issue.  It hasn’t posed a problem in 30 years but in the last 2 or 3 months it’s caused several closures. Maybe NR have changed some procedures following Stonehaven. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2023, 10:46:45
.......given the chaos which was going on last night with the flooding near Totnes, and the meltdown which they could foresee this morning, I thought this was a nice customer service touch from GWR!  ::)

(The Twitter page proudly states "We are GWR. Here to help between 06:00 and 23:00, 7 days a week.
Let's get back on track!") Irony!

I don’t quite understand the “flooding” issue.  It hasn’t posed a problem in 30 years but in the last 2 or 3 months it’s caused several closures. Maybe NR have changed some procedures following Stonehaven. 

That is correct since Stonehaven NR Geotec have changed the procedures, updated site risk registers etc. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 01, 2023, 14:35:44
In previous years when ‘big’ dates such as New Year’s Day have fallen on a Sunday, an enhanced rate of pay was offered. I imagine the DfT put a stop to that this year, and as many traincrew have the option to not work it, they have decided not to bother this time.

Yes, as far as I know there is no additional payment being offered across the Christmas and New Year period at all, except for double pay on the 27th December Christmas Day Bank Holiday in lieu.

i can see this unfortunately going on for at least another year.  If the government aren’t prepared to sit down with NHS staff then us rail staff haven’t got a hope at present.
What I think also hampers progress is the government and RDG are negotiating with the RMT covering all TOCs. You would probably find progress would be a lot quicker if the individual TOCs were free to negotiate with the RMT. If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, you would probably find a 5% pay rise would be accepted.
It does need sorting urgently though. Morale is rock bottom, once that’s gone goodwill quickly vanishes well.

I personally can't see this going on for another year. 

The RMT have escalated their action recently, and you may well find ASLEF/TSSA will do the same. 

That was a step that had to be taken by the RMT, as the limited amount of action they were taking wasn't really getting them anywhere.  IMHO it will force a resolution within a couple of months if situations like next week, where the whole week is wiped out with action, continue on a more frequent basis than they did in the first six months.

That resolution might be the strike collapsing, or it might be a negotiated settlement.  If it's the latter I expect it to be a settlement based on the offers to RMT members that are already on the table, perhaps slightly tweaked so that the RMT and DfT/TOC's can all claim some kind of victory.

Then it remains to be seen what the longer term damage to the industry will be.  I would say probably no line closures as that will look too bad for the Government, but certainly reductions in the number of services and length of trains.  For example, you could see services running once per hour where they currently run every 30 minutes, more shuttle services replacing through trains (North and South Cotswolds might be obvious candidates for that) or the TransWilts going back to its pre-December 2013 timetable.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 01, 2023, 15:14:06
In previous years when ‘big’ dates such as New Year’s Day have fallen on a Sunday, an enhanced rate of pay was offered. I imagine the DfT put a stop to that this year, and as many traincrew have the option to not work it, they have decided not to bother this time.

Yes, as far as I know there is no additional payment being offered across the Christmas and New Year period at all, except for double pay on the 27th December Christmas Day Bank Holiday in lieu.

i can see this unfortunately going on for at least another year.  If the government aren’t prepared to sit down with NHS staff then us rail staff haven’t got a hope at present.
What I think also hampers progress is the government and RDG are negotiating with the RMT covering all TOCs. You would probably find progress would be a lot quicker if the individual TOCs were free to negotiate with the RMT. If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, you would probably find a 5% pay rise would be accepted.
It does need sorting urgently though. Morale is rock bottom, once that’s gone goodwill quickly vanishes well.

I personally can't see this going on for another year. 

The RMT have escalated their action recently, and you may well find ASLEF/TSSA will do the same. 

That was a step that had to be taken by the RMT, as the limited amount of action they were taking wasn't really getting them anywhere.  IMHO it will force a resolution within a couple of months if situations like next week, where the whole week is wiped out with action, continue on a more frequent basis than they did in the first six months.

That resolution might be the strike collapsing, or it might be a negotiated settlement.  If it's the latter I expect it to be a settlement based on the offers to RMT members that are already on the table, perhaps slightly tweaked so that the RMT and DfT/TOC's can all claim some kind of victory.

Then it remains to be seen what the longer term damage to the industry will be.  I would say probably no line closures as that will look too bad for the Government, but certainly reductions in the number of services and length of trains.  For example, you could see services running once per hour where they currently run every 30 minutes, more shuttle services replacing through trains (North and South Cotswolds might be obvious candidates for that) or the TransWilts going back to its pre-December 2013 timetable.

I can see it going on for another year or at least until inflation drops to around 2% mark. Personally I think that’s why the government aren’t taking negotiations seriously. 
The problem with ASLEF is they haven’t really had an offer made to them, and their dispute is mainly pay related. The ASLEF dispute will be resolved sooner than the RMT.

I can see a reduction in service on some lines but you’d hope that the summer tourism trade will prevent that from happening in the West Country, I can see CrossCountry going no further West than Exeter though.
Leisure traffic will recover quickly once the disputes are resolved.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2023, 15:46:43
Leisure travel will recover just as soon as the action resolves.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on January 01, 2023, 20:41:03
Leisure travel will recover just as soon as the action resolves.

I admire your optimism. Leisure travel will recover when people can once again afford to make elective journeys. It ain't just strike action that is the deciding factor in whether someone choses rail for leisure travel.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 01, 2023, 22:00:45
Leisure travel will recover just as soon as the action resolves.

I admire your optimism. Leisure travel will recover when people can once again afford to make elective journeys. It ain't just strike action that is the deciding factor in whether someone choses rail for leisure travel.

Indeed.   We find that leisure traffic gets a bit peeved when a service is cancelled or a connection fails even when there's no industrial action.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on January 02, 2023, 07:20:50

I can see it going on for another year or at least until inflation drops to around 2% mark. Personally I think that’s why the government aren’t taking negotiations seriously. 
The problem with ASLEF is they haven’t really had an offer made to them, and their dispute is mainly pay related. The ASLEF dispute will be resolved sooner than the RMT.

I can see a reduction in service on some lines but you’d hope that the summer tourism trade will prevent that from happening in the West Country, I can see CrossCountry going no further West than Exeter though.
Leisure traffic will recover quickly once the disputes are resolved.

On top of the current Rail, Postal, NHS, Boarder Force it is likely the Fire Services potentially Teachers and there are rumblings within the PCSO's (they are not covered by the same Law as Police Officers) will be hit by strikes in a few weeks.    All this Industrial action in the public sector will be feeding into the Tory party's next manifesto, they will put draconian Trade Union legislation into the manifesto for the next General Election on top of the kneejerk legislation they are planning to bring in the next few weeks. 

In the longer term being a direct employee in the Public sector will not be seen as an attractive career with more and more being Agency because it pays more with better choice of hours .................. who pays .............. us with higher taxes and degraded services


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on January 02, 2023, 07:43:08
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2023, 07:56:46
Leisure travel will recover just as soon as the action resolves.

I admire your optimism. Leisure travel will recover when people can once again afford to make elective journeys. It ain't just strike action that is the deciding factor in whether someone choses rail for leisure travel.

I wouldn't worry - these new fangled motor cars will never catch on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 02, 2023, 07:59:26
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Indeed.  People can still make most (? stopping patterns) journeys and I would not expect there to be a capacity issue

Do I dare contrast this?

1 out of one early morning Swindon to Westbury trains cancelled

People who wished to take the 06:11 will find there is nothing for a further 2.5 hours.    GWR's journey planner for passengers going to Southampton Central where that train was supposed to terminate at 08:09 are recommending the 08:48 from Swindon with 2 changes at a cost of £72.60 (versus £33.40) and an arrival time of 10:55 (yeah, I could do better than the GWR planner on timing and price!).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2023, 08:03:22
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Lack of sets at Plymouth to form the services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on January 02, 2023, 08:07:03
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Lack of sets at Plymouth to form the services.

Hmmm ... should I believe you, or JourneyCheck

Quote
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35

04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Actually ... I believe you!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2023, 08:45:14
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Lack of sets at Plymouth to form the services.

Hmmm ... should I believe you, or JourneyCheck

Quote
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35

04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Actually ... I believe you!

Quite possibly shortage of trains and crew?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 02, 2023, 09:03:14
.....If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, .....

The apparent proposals for more DOO and closure of all ticket offices are, in my opinion, completely bonkers and inappropriate but it really is about time that railway staff accepted their world of work has changed and they accepted being contracted, on a rota basis, to turn out for some weekends & public holidays.

Do we know what the DfT has proposed in terms of new weekend/public holiday working and why, apparently, the RMT (and at least one driver!) are opposed?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2023, 09:06:59
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Lack of sets at Plymouth to form the services.

Hmmm ... should I believe you, or JourneyCheck

Quote
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35

04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Actually ... I believe you!

Both!!!

Shortage of staff yesterday means that sets are displaced this morning.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2023, 09:11:04
.....If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, .....

The apparent proposals for more DOO and closure of all ticket offices are, in my opinion, completely bonkers and inappropriate but it really is about time that railway staff accepted their world of work has changed and they accepted being contracted, on a rota basis, to turn out for some weekends & public holidays.

Do we know what the DfT has proposed in terms of new weekend/public holiday working and why, apparently, the RMT (and at least one driver!) are opposed?

When it comes to Sundays the proposals are for a “commitment to work Sundays”. Sundays will remain outside the working week but we would be forced to work overtime.  They could opt to bring Sundays into the working week but that would mean employing more staff.

Public holidays remain unchanged.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on January 02, 2023, 10:17:48
3 out of the first five early morning Plymouth to Paddington trains cancelled. Thereafter, not looking too bad.

Lack of sets at Plymouth to form the services.

Hmmm ... should I believe you, or JourneyCheck

Quote
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35

04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington due 08:35 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

Actually ... I believe you!

Quite possibly shortage of trains and crew?

Lack of crew yesterday to take sets west; therefore a lack of sets at Laira this morning.  (Not helped by needing one to form the 05:03 from Penzance starting from Plymouth).


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 02, 2023, 10:37:07
.....If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, .....

The apparent proposals for more DOO and closure of all ticket offices are, in my opinion, completely bonkers and inappropriate but it really is about time that railway staff accepted their world of work has changed and they accepted being contracted, on a rota basis, to turn out for some weekends & public holidays.

Do we know what the DfT has proposed in terms of new weekend/public holiday working and why, apparently, the RMT (and at least one driver!) are opposed?

When it comes to Sundays the proposals are for a “commitment to work Sundays”. Sundays will remain outside the working week but we would be forced to work overtime.  They could opt to bring Sundays into the working week but that would mean employing more staff.

Public holidays remain unchanged.

Aren't there a lot of newer staff for whom Sunday already is a commitment/within the working week?

I seem to recall during the regular Sunday BBQ season chaos that this was highlighted by those in the know on a "manana, manana" basis.



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on January 02, 2023, 10:42:04
.....If you dropped some of the conditions, namely DOO, a blanket closure of all tickets offices and the Sunday working proposals, .....

The apparent proposals for more DOO and closure of all ticket offices are, in my opinion, completely bonkers and inappropriate but it really is about time that railway staff accepted their world of work has changed and they accepted being contracted, on a rota basis, to turn out for some weekends & public holidays.

Do we know what the DfT has proposed in terms of new weekend/public holiday working and why, apparently, the RMT (and at least one driver!) are opposed?

When it comes to Sundays the proposals are for a “commitment to work Sundays”. Sundays will remain outside the working week but we would be forced to work overtime.  They could opt to bring Sundays into the working week but that would mean employing more staff.

Public holidays remain unchanged.

Aren't there a lot of newer staff for whom Sunday already is a commitment/within the working week?

I seem to recall during the regular Sunday BBQ season chaos that this was highlighted by those in the know on a "manana, manana" basis.



For drivers, yes. I don’t think guards or train managers have a commitment to work Sundays, I might be wrong though.

This highlights the ludicrous state of negotiations. The DfT/Rdg and the RMT can’t negotiate on behalf of all TOCs when we are all on different T&C’s


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on April 23, 2023, 14:14:53
Not a particularly clever one to cancel given it would no doubt have been the route home for some exhausted Westcountry London Marathon runners..............

16:36 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:10

16:36 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:10 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: FarWestJohn on April 23, 2023, 18:50:31
Expect the next two trains will be 5 car.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on April 23, 2023, 21:46:01
Not a particularly clever one to cancel given it would no doubt have been the route home for some exhausted Westcountry London Marathon runners..............

16:36 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:10

16:36 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:10 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
The first service from Penzance to London, the 0815 was cancelled. This was due into Paddington at 1359 so I suspect there’s a staffing connection there.

Both services were part of the few trains running via Westbury today because of engineering work with most trains diverted via Bristol. To cancel both these trains wasn’t very helpful.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 16:18:37
Not looking good for travel to and from Wales tomorrow......cancellations already being announced.....all due to crew shortage.

Sun, 7 May 08:35 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:39
Sun, 7 May 09:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:09
Sun, 7 May 12:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:29
Sun, 7 May 13:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:32
Sun, 7 May 14:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:34
Sun, 7 May 16:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:09
Sun, 7 May 17:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:27
Sun, 7 May 18:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:13
Sun, 7 May 19:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:28
Sun, 7 May 20:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:01


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 18:26:41
Not looking good for travel to and from Wales tomorrow......cancellations already being announced.....all due to crew shortage.

Sun, 7 May 08:35 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:39
Sun, 7 May 09:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:09
Sun, 7 May 12:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:29
Sun, 7 May 13:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:32
Sun, 7 May 14:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:34
Sun, 7 May 16:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:09
Sun, 7 May 17:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:27
Sun, 7 May 18:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:13
Sun, 7 May 19:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:28
Sun, 7 May 20:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:01


Getting worse by the hour tomorrow......all cancelled due to crew shortage......is there a GWR Ox Roast?


Sun, 7 May 08:35 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:39
Sun, 7 May 09:23 Swansea to London Paddington due 12:09
Sun, 7 May 12:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 15:29
Sun, 7 May 13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:35
Sun, 7 May 13:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:32
Sun, 7 May 14:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:34
Sun, 7 May 15:04 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:39
Sun, 7 May 16:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 19:09
Sun, 7 May 16:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 18:08
Sun, 7 May 17:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 20:27
Sun, 7 May 18:24 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:13
Sun, 7 May 18:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 20:39
Sun, 7 May 18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 22:07
Sun, 7 May 19:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 20:32
Sun, 7 May 19:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 22:28
Sun, 7 May 20:43 London Paddington to Swansea due 00:01
Sun, 7 May 20:44 Oxford to Great Malvern due 22:17
Sun, 7 May 21:05 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 21:23
Sun, 7 May 22:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 23:46
Sun, 7 May 23:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 01:00


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: tomL on May 07, 2023, 19:27:21
While things did somewhat improve this morning, I suspect that there were incentives/more focus to ensure a "complete" service ran yesterday for the Coronation day-trippers.

Still plenty of gaps today, but seems less dire on the South Wales route than it was looking yesterday evening.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 07, 2023, 21:23:40
While things did somewhat improve this morning, I suspect that there were incentives/more focus to ensure a "complete" service ran yesterday for the Coronation day-trippers.

Still plenty of gaps today, but seems less dire on the South Wales route than it was looking yesterday evening.

Start of tomorrow not looking too promising....crew shortage again

Mon, 8 May 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44
Mon, 8 May 05:58 Swansea to London Paddington due 08:44
Mon, 8 May 06:57 Swansea to London Paddington due 09:44


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 08, 2023, 06:59:50
Start of tomorrow not looking too promising....crew shortage again

Mon, 8 May 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44
Mon, 8 May 05:58 Swansea to London Paddington due 08:44
Mon, 8 May 06:57 Swansea to London Paddington due 09:44
Some better news on these three services. All three are running with two now starting and Cardiff and one at Bristol Parkway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 13, 2023, 08:34:30
Sun, 14 May 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
Sun, 14 May 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

Both sleepers cancelled tomorrow due to crew shortage.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2023, 11:34:19
Sun, 14 May 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
Sun, 14 May 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

Both sleepers cancelled tomorrow due to crew shortage.

Where is that listed?  I can’t see it on journeycheck.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on May 13, 2023, 12:45:19
Sun, 14 May 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:03
Sun, 14 May 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54

Both sleepers cancelled tomorrow due to crew shortage.

Where is that listed?  I can’t see it on journeycheck.

I saw it on there earlier but it's gone now. Perhaps they have found someone to work them.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2023, 13:02:19
I saw it on there earlier but it's gone now. Perhaps they have found someone to work them.

Quite possibly.  Or it was listed in error?  Or it was delisted in error and will reappear again at some point?

Cancellations listed 36 hours in advance and then a couple hours later to disappear without a reinstatement message probably sums up the usefulness of journeycheck perfectly!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 13, 2023, 23:06:51
Sleepers were both reinstated just before 9am today.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 16, 2023, 06:31:28
I saw it on there earlier but it's gone now. Perhaps they have found someone to work them.

Quite possibly.  Or it was listed in error?  Or it was delisted in error and will reappear again at some point?

Cancellations listed 36 hours in advance and then a couple hours later to disappear without a reinstatement message probably sums up the usefulness of journeycheck perfectly!

From GWR Twitter (yesterday)

GWR
@GWRHelp
·
9h
⚠️ Due to industrial action, our Night Riviera sleeper service will not be running in either direction until Sunday 21 May.

For more information on how industrial action may affect your journey please go to http://GWR.com.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on May 16, 2023, 06:53:18
Cancellations listed 36 hours in advance and then a couple hours later to disappear without a reinstatement message probably sums up the usefulness of journeycheck perfectly!

GIGO (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_in,_garbage_out)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 16, 2023, 07:13:29
⚠️ Due to industrial action, our Night Riviera sleeper service will not be running in either direction until Sunday 21 May.

But no longer listed on JourneyCheck and still coming up in the journey planners.  Hopeless!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 16, 2023, 07:53:34
Reading the thread it appears that a number of customers were not notified on Sunday and  turned at Penzance station fully expecting to be travelling on the sleeper.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2023, 08:10:15
Expensive taxi then!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 16, 2023, 09:31:24
Expensive taxi then!

I would hope they’d have been given a hotel for the night in London, then travelled on the train of their choice the following morning.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on May 16, 2023, 11:08:37
Looks like the sleepers have now been removed from GWR's journey planner and there is a note on the dedicated Night Riviera page on the website.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 16, 2023, 12:07:30
Expensive taxi then!

I would hope they’d have been given a hotel for the night in London, then travelled on the train of their choice the following morning.

From what I could gather (at the Penzance end), no hotel,  certainly no taxi, but they were graciously allowed to choose a train the following day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2023, 13:09:10
That’s a tad unfair at that time of night….


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 19, 2023, 05:29:55
Slow increase in the number of trains being cancelled with crew shortage.
Just noted amongst todays
17:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:24
    snip
18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:59
19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35

Nothing on RTT departures for a Penzance connection on the 1904 (Paddington) from Plymouth - expensive taxi(s) I guess.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2023, 07:29:44
Slow increase in the number of trains being cancelled with crew shortage.
Just noted amongst todays
17:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:24
    snip
18:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 22:59
19:04 London Paddington to Penzance due 00:35

Nothing on RTT departures for a Penzance connection on the 1904 (Paddington) from Plymouth - expensive taxi(s) I guess.

Up to about 60 cancellations and shortened journeys now - thought it must be Sunday when I first looked!

How is this the case on a normal working day? ASLEF Overtime ban?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 09:03:20
Yes, the non-contractual overtime ban in place this week will be responsible for most of it.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 19, 2023, 13:31:09
Some better news on the Cornwall front. The 1704 will now run as scheduled throughout.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Sleepy on May 19, 2023, 20:43:22
But change trains at Plymouth to a castle set !


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 27, 2023, 09:22:59
On journeycheck
06:19 Bristol Temple Meads to Newquay due 10:36
06:19 Bristol Temple Meads to Newquay due 10:36 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par and Newquay.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

The return journey also starts from Plymouth, but.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04575/2023-05-27/detailed is showing a 9 car IET.
Surely that wouldn't have run to Newquay?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on May 27, 2023, 10:09:48
On journeycheck
06:19 Bristol Temple Meads to Newquay due 10:36
06:19 Bristol Temple Meads to Newquay due 10:36 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par and Newquay.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

The return journey also starts from Plymouth, but.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04575/2023-05-27/detailed is showing a 9 car IET.
Surely that wouldn't have run to Newquay?

I think 9 cars DO run to Newquay but recall an issue in having two of them pass each other at Goonbarrow


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 27, 2023, 11:31:40
Sunny, Bank Holiday weekend, huge opportunity for leisure travel to the seaside so........

Cancellations to services between Par and Newquay

Due to a shortage of train crew between Par and Newquay fewer trains are able to run on all lines.
Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until 12:00 27/05.

......Once again, the message is you cannot rely on the railway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 27, 2023, 13:11:38
Looks like just the one round trip cancelled?  Though the one that you’d probably choose if you wanted to get to Newquay for the day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 27, 2023, 14:32:38
11:14 Newquay to London Paddington due 15:57

11:14 Newquay to London Paddington due 15:57 will be started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Newquay, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard.

This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 28, 2023, 06:33:31
B-B-Q day for the bruvvers
Cancellations to services between Liskeard and Looe
Due to a shortage of train crew between Liskeard and Looe fewer trains are able to run on the line.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 12:00 28/05.
Also
08:45 Plymouth to Penzance due 10:47
09:14 Plymouth to Penzance due 11:02
09:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:24
11:49 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 17:00

Admittedly only 2 trains but loss of an IET to London and back will result in overloading, and journeycheck reported much overcrowding yesterday.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on May 28, 2023, 07:27:48
To be fair, GWR pretty much ran their full Summer Saturday timetable to the Southwest yesterday with all trains operating operating with 9/10 coach IETs.

I don’t think there’s much more than they can do when it comes to overcrowding especially when you consider that the capacity of 9/10 coach IETs is higher than the HSTs they replaced.

You also had trains operating every half an hour during the ‘morning peak.

Demand for travel is very high at the moment.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 28, 2023, 07:41:48
Demand is high; overcrowding is frequent.
Yet the DfT still blocking expenditure for improvements!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 28, 2023, 07:52:02
Demand is high; overcrowding is frequent.
Yet the DfT still blocking expenditure for improvements!

Worse than that, they are providing GWR with much less stock than was originally planned.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 28, 2023, 07:55:34
Demand is high; overcrowding is frequent.
Yet the DfT still blocking expenditure for improvements!

Worse than that, they are providing GWR with much less stock than was originally planned.

Sounds like it's more of a crew issue today (and yesterday) if Journeycheck is to be believed (a dangerous assumption I know!)

You can have all the stock in the world but if there's no-one to drive it................and obviously that leads to overcrowding on other/later services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 28, 2023, 13:21:44
Situation seems to be deteriorating as the day goes on and there appears to be toilet shortages as well as crew shortages.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on May 29, 2023, 07:05:39
I was on a service that arrived in Pz last Tuesday, and the forward toilet had no paper.

Is there an automated reporting system on the IET's for this, as that train went back to Paddington.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 29, 2023, 09:42:17
There’s no automated procedure, though at larger stations the turnaround cleaning team carry stock and can replenish it.  Not sure if that’s the case at Penzance but I would have thought it would be. Reporting it to the TM is a good idea if you get chance.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on May 29, 2023, 15:06:41
There’s no automated procedure, though at larger stations the turnaround cleaning team carry stock and can replenish it.  Not sure if that’s the case at Penzance but I would have thought it would be. Reporting it to the TM is a good idea if you get chance.

I have had it confirmed by a Cornish friend that 6 days a week toilet paper supplies will indeed be replenished at Penzance where required, however this cannot be guaranteed on Sundays as it is not within the wiping week.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TonyK on June 01, 2023, 09:49:15

I have had it confirmed by a Cornish friend that 6 days a week toilet paper supplies will indeed be replenished at Penzance where required, however this cannot be guaranteed on Sundays as it is not within the wiping week.

:)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Witham Bobby on June 01, 2023, 11:25:01

I think 9 cars DO run to Newquay but recall an issue in having two of them pass each other at Goonbarrow

I think the problem lies at St Blazey


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 01, 2023, 11:33:37

I think 9 cars DO run to Newquay but recall an issue in having two of them pass each other at Goonbarrow

I think the problem lies at St Blazey
Or was it because two 5 cars are unable to pass at Goonbarrow.
Think II mentioned something a while ago, but can't find the post


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 01, 2023, 17:19:57
Here's the tale of the two trains that couldn't pass.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26609.msg324623#msg324623 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26609.msg324623#msg324623)


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on June 02, 2023, 01:04:08

I think 9 cars DO run to Newquay but recall an issue in having two of them pass each other at Goonbarrow

I think the problem lies at St Blazey

The TPR has a table of rules about passing trains at St Blazey signal box (i.e. in Par Loop). The specific notes there are:
Quote
If possible, down train should not pass/depart Par until Up train has arrived at St Blazey.

Par cannot accept an Up train from St Blazey while a 9 or 10 car Class 80x is held at SB40 signal due to fouling Par 42pts.

Please note - If trains are crossing at St Blazey Signal Box, the Up train must ALWAYS arrive first.

If the Up train is longer than 130m it is preferable to cross at Goonbarrow Junction.

In the case on 12/8/22 that went wrong it was the down train that arrived first, as it was timetabled to.

Quite why this is an issue is not obvious, as the clear space in the loop is about 400 m.

For Goonbarrow, the TPR says:
Quote
Operation of 10-car 80x requires special arrangements if crossing another service at Goonbarrow Junction

There are also some notices in the Western Sectional Appendix. For Goonbarrow, this:
Quote
GW660 - PAR TO NEWQUAY
Goonbarrow Jn (G) SB
Due to restricted passing loop length at Goonbarrow, only 5 and 9 car IET’s are allowed to operate on the branch.
Dated: 09/03/19

The clear length of the loop given in the WSA is 224 m, i.e. less than the length of a 9-car IET at 234 m. However, that's not the length of the whole loop, as a passing loop on the main line - that's over 300 m. Signal positions will dictate how length is usable. It looks as if there is always plenty of space on the Up Main, and enough space on the Down Main to convert all passing operations into Down passes Up ones.

For St Blazey Jn, there is this which is still not updated:
Quote
GW660 - PAR TO NEWQUAY
St. Blazey Jn
Working of HSTs or 2 x Voyager DMUs when booked to cross. If any Down train consisting of an HST, or two Class 220/221 DMUs coupled together, is stopped or nearly stopped at St. Blazey Down Home signal (SB.40) before the signal clears, the driver must be prepared to stop at a red handsignal displayed from St. Blazey signal box.

If a red handsignal is displayed, the driver must stop the train short of the foot crossing.

After the Up train has passed and a token has been given to the Down train’s driver, the St. Blazey signaller will display a green handsignal as authority to proceed.

The above method of working may be necessary if an Up train of similar length is to be crossed but the Down train needs to stand clear of pointwork at Par.
Dated: 05/12/15

I couldn't say what that's about. I'm also mystified by the incompatibility of these two documents.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on June 02, 2023, 10:30:36
The TPR has a table of rules about passing trains at St Blazey signal box (i.e. in Par Loop). The specific notes there are:

Clicking to expand the abbreviation "TPR", I'm told that this is "The Pensions Regulator". Really?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: stuving on June 02, 2023, 19:31:23
The TPR has a table of rules about passing trains at St Blazey signal box (i.e. in Par Loop). The specific notes there are:

Clicking to expand the abbreviation "TPR", I'm told that this is "The Pensions Regulator". Really?

The Timetable Planning Rules (I added those quotes as a rather late afterthought) are part of the Operational Rules data set, together with the EAS (Engineering Access Statement). That at least is findable via a link in the list of information for operators (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/). The Sectional Appendix has a page of its own (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/information-for-operators/national-electronic-sectional-appendix/), but I don't think there's a link to it. Whether either is "well-known" is open to question.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2023, 07:50:44
Summer Saturday, people planning a trip into Cornwall, but......

Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Gunnislake

Due to a shortage of train crew between Plymouth and Gunnislake fewer trains are able to run on the line.
Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:24 17/06.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 17, 2023, 09:57:44
Quote from: TaplowGreen
Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Gunnislake

Due to a shortage of train crew between Plymouth and Gunnislake fewer trains are able to run on the line.
Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:24 17/06.

Service resuming with the 10:24, so first couple of return trips cancelled at 06:27 and 08:22 from Plymouth and return.  I don’t know how busy the Gunnislake branch is on a Saturday, but I would guess the first of those would be pretty quiet?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on June 17, 2023, 11:09:14
Summer Saturday, people planning a trip into Cornwall, but......

Cancellations to services between Plymouth and Gunnislake

Due to a shortage of train crew between Plymouth and Gunnislake fewer trains are able to run on the line.
Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:24 17/06.
But in reverse -
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:29
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 12:29 will be started from Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Penzance, St Erth, Hayle, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway, Liskeard, St Germans and Saltash.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
And
12:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:29
12:18 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:29 will be terminated at Exeter St Davids.
It will no longer call at Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
And
14:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:29
14:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 19:29 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway, Taunton, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2023, 17:55:39
Transwilts shut for the rest of the day due to crew shortage - all services cancelled.

Everyone gone to the beach?

https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/23596403.swindon-great-western-railway-trains-hit-staff-issues/


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on June 17, 2023, 18:48:56
Interestingly they've found enough crew to run three or four extra Falmouths tonight for the Sea Shanty festival  which GWR didn't seem to know about in advance


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Phil on June 17, 2023, 19:34:12
It's just so dispiriting to realise that this subject has been worthy of noting and remarking about since 2017, and yet here we are 5 years later and if anything the situation is far worse than it was even then, certainly on services through Melksham which are a lottery at the best of times.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2023, 13:49:32
Sadly (for the customers at least) it seems that GWR BBQ season is now underway.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 18, 2023, 16:23:07
Sadly (for the customers at least) it seems that GWR BBQ season is now underway.
Yes, after a good few months of very few cancellations and short running, ‘normal service’ was very much resumed today across the board. Once again, Sundays are best avoided.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 18, 2023, 18:11:15
I can only imagine how the timetable would be affected across the country if ASLEF and/or the RMT invoke ‘action short of a strike’ or full strike action over all weekends during the summer.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on June 18, 2023, 18:22:07
With voluntary Sunday working already causing disruption, it would only take action on Saturdays....


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on June 18, 2023, 20:57:23
The situation may well be worse than we can see from our armchairs.

I went to catch one of the 387 shuttles from London Paddington to Bristol Parkway at Didcot Parkway this afternoon.

After six minutes of sitting going nowhere it was cancelled as there was no guard available.

It hasn’t appeared on Journeycheck yet.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 18, 2023, 21:51:37
With voluntary Sunday working already causing disruption, it would only take action on Saturdays....

Voluntary Sunday working is currently helping to reduce disruption on Sundays quite substantially.

On a separate note, certain depots had plenty of drivers above what they needed to cover their work today.  Sunday disruption would be reduced if route knowledge was increased.  The current set up with NRC’s mean that the DfT would need to authorise the cost of that learning, so I doubt it’ll happen.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Electric train on June 19, 2023, 06:44:53
With voluntary Sunday working already causing disruption, it would only take action on Saturdays....

Voluntary Sunday working is currently helping to reduce disruption on Sundays quite substantially.

On a separate note, certain depots had plenty of drivers above what they needed to cover their work today.  Sunday disruption would be reduced if route knowledge was increased.  The current set up with NRC’s mean that the DfT would need to authorise the cost of that learning, so I doubt it’ll happen.

I wonder if GBR will help alleviate this problem, that's providing DfT / Treasury do not sink GBR 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2023, 08:48:46
Glastonbury related? Crew being used elsewhere?

Cancellations to services between Taunton and Bristol Temple Meads
Due to a shortage of train crew between Taunton and Bristol Temple Meads the line towards Bristol Temple Meads is blocked.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:30 26/06


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on June 26, 2023, 09:28:28
Glastonbury related? Crew being used elsewhere?

Cancellations to services between Taunton and Bristol Temple Meads
Due to a shortage of train crew between Taunton and Bristol Temple Meads the line towards Bristol Temple Meads is blocked.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 10:30 26/06
Above message continues...

Quote
Due to a shortage of train crew, several trains running between Penzance and Cardiff Central have been cancelled. This has affected north bound services in Bridgwater, with no direct train for nearly three hours. Road transprt is in place to take customers towards Highbridge & Burnham, and Weston Super Mare, where connections towards Bristol are available. Road transport is also operating from Taunton towards all stations to Weston-super-Mare. Customers can travel to Taunton and change onto Cross Country services direct to Bristol Temple Meads.
UPDATE: Some road transport that is being provided has been reported to be running late, particularly those starting at Bridgwater. Current ETA from Bridgwater is 09:20.

For a Monday morning that's embarrassing. Though perfectly normal for users of Transpennine Express services.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on July 01, 2023, 11:10:57
11:14 Newquay to London Paddington due 15:57
11:14 Newquay to London Paddington due 15:57 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Reading and London Paddington.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

This one seems to have become the 'Melksham' service to be curtailed, especially at weekends.
Latterly either curtailed completely or curtailed at Plymouth.

Weekends looking increasingly bleak for shortage of crew.
Interesting that this thread has been going since September 2017 and GWR are still short (of staff AND trains)!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on July 01, 2023, 12:33:18
The failed Looe unit was repaired and normal services resumed.
Unfortunately, staff shortages are curtailing some evening runs.
Also shortages on the Newquay and Falmouth branches now appearing.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: bobm on July 01, 2023, 12:51:34
The failed Looe unit was repaired and normal services resumed.

Sort of.  The failed unit (150244) went back to Plymouth and a fresh unit (150234) sent down to resume service with the 10:36 to Looe.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on July 01, 2023, 17:58:14
Weekends looking increasingly bleak for shortage of crew.
Interesting that this thread has been going since September 2017 and GWR are still short (of staff AND trains)!

They aren’t short of staff.  They are short of people with experience and knowledge when it comes to diagramming. 

Most companies strive for increased productivity and flexibility, GWR have gone, for some strange reason, in totally the opposite direction.  It’s not uncommon now for crew, especially drivers, to spend more time travelling as passengers than actually driving.  Your typical Paddington to Penzance service, use to require just one crew change at Exeter or Plymouth.  Now there can be 3 or 4 changes of crew, Reading, Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, Plymouth and Par seem to be favoured.  The more crew changes you have, the more issues you have with relieving crew not being in the right place during disruption add to that you crew losing route knowledge and you end up in a similar situation to TPE. 

As for the trains, the IETs simply aren’t going to cope. You either need an extension of electrification to keep the IETs off diesel or to ditch the IET fleet altogether.  There’s currently in excess of 20 sets running with at least one engine isolated.  The rate of returns with the engines is at such a rate, the factory repairing them can’t cope with the workload.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 11, 2023, 08:50:53
No doubt due to ASLEF's action but an especially bad one to have to cut short today with Boardmasters on.............

08:03 London Paddington to Newquay due 12:58
08:03 London Paddington to Newquay due 12:58 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Par and Newquay.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 12, 2023, 12:07:56

As for the trains, the IETs simply aren’t going to cope. You either need an extension of electrification to keep the IETs off diesel or to ditch the IET fleet altogether.  There’s currently in excess of 20 sets running with at least one engine isolated.  The rate of returns with the engines is at such a rate, the factory repairing them can’t cope with the workload.

What happened to the "essential requirement" that an IET with an engine out should be able to maintain the specified level of performance ?

And what happened to the requirement that IETs should be able to work reliably on the GW network as currently existing, and without  being reliant on possible future electrification.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 12, 2023, 12:40:26
What happened to the "essential requirement" that an IET with an engine out should be able to maintain the specified level of performance ?

Was "with an engine out" specified against a level of performance?  As I vaguely recall it was that the train had to be able to carry on with an engine out.

Quote
And what happened to the requirement that IETs should be able to work reliably on the GW network as currently existing, and without  being reliant on possible future electrification.

From a passenger viewpoint, they are working.  The specification is reliability (able to run) and they can. No level of performance specified in what I am quoting.

I am perhaps coming across as an apologist for the rail industry here, but the failure to complete the electrification to Bristol and Oxford is crazy and the consequences of that decision on the wear and tear of the diesel systems doesn't seem to have made it onto my radar. Was this considered as part of the decision to truncate, and if so what measures were put in place to mitigate any issues arising?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 12, 2023, 14:34:12

So nothing much can be done ? And we are simply stuck with new shorter trains for about another 20 years.
That will help encourage flying and driving, and sod the climate emergency.












Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 12, 2023, 14:41:02
A lot can be done, but all our taxes will rise in order to pay for it. Would you vote for that?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 12, 2023, 14:50:08
Would you vote for that?

I’d vote for keeping on topic!  ;)   Can this discussion be split off into a new one, or merged with the existing IET thread?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: eightonedee on August 12, 2023, 15:06:01
Quote
Was this considered as part of the decision to truncate, and if so what measures were put in place to mitigate any issues arising?

I think we would all guess that the answer to this is "no, and none". Someone in DfT and/or the Treasury thought they could get away with it because the trains could be bi-mode, and I expect that is as far as it went. They probably then waited for the dust to settle and then produced that ridiculous report referred to in the GW Electrification thread on this forum to solemnly tell us that the electrification project had not achieved the desired value for money compared to the original assessment. Of course it did not - a substantial proportion of the project was not delivered but the cost was considerably more than the original estimate for the whole project.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: broadgage on August 13, 2023, 12:07:48
A lot can be done, but all our taxes will rise in order to pay for it. Would you vote for that?

Why would this have to come out general taxation ? Why should taxpayers have to bail out Hitachi's failed project.

We should say VERY FIRMLY to Hitachi "you built them, and you must make them work" Or if they cant make them work reliably, then supply additional or alternative stock in order to provide the agreed number of of trains every day.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on August 13, 2023, 12:12:52
A lot can be done, but all our taxes will rise in order to pay for it. Would you vote for that?

Why would this have to come out general taxation ? Why should taxpayers have to bail out Hitachi's failed project.

We should say VERY FIRMLY to Hitachi "you built them, and you must make them work" Or if they cant make them work reliably, then supply additional or alternative stock in order to provide the agreed number of of trains every day.
Purely playing devils advocate here.  Maybe Hitachi have met their side of the contract, which might have been drawn up badly/loopholes/etc.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 13, 2023, 12:43:15
A lot can be done, but all our taxes will rise in order to pay for it. Would you vote for that?

Why would this have to come out general taxation ? Why should taxpayers have to bail out Hitachi's failed project.

We should say VERY FIRMLY to Hitachi "you built them, and you must make them work" Or if they cant make them work reliably, then supply additional or alternative stock in order to provide the agreed number of of trains every day.
Purely playing devils advocate here.  Maybe Hitachi have met their side of the contract, which might have been drawn up badly/loopholes/etc.

And of course, Gentlemen, the other options is from increasing fares. So - Ooze gonna pay. Choose:
1. Hitachi
2. The passenger
3. Taxpayers as a whole


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 13, 2023, 14:59:11
We should say VERY FIRMLY to Hitachi "you built them, and you must make them work" Or if they cant make them work reliably, then supply additional or alternative stock in order to provide the agreed number of of trains every day.

https://www.hitachirail.com/blog/2023/2022-a-record-breaking-year-in-reliability-for-hitachi-rail/


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on August 13, 2023, 15:57:43

So nothing much can be done ? And we are simply stuck with new shorter trains for about another 20 years.
That will help encourage flying and driving, and sod the climate emergency.

This is your question to which I replied that the taxpayer would pay (for longer trains it seems your wish was for). Hitachi completed the contract as stated - otherwise they *would* be rectifying.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 13, 2023, 20:22:28
A great advert for the railway during the tourist season.



Cancellations to services between Penzance and Plymouth

Due to a shortage of train crew between Penzance and Plymouth fewer trains are able to run on all lines.

Train services running to and from these stations have been cancelled. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice
Due to a shortage of train crew, our service in Cornwall is severely reduced. The only train currently expected to run is our 'Sleeper' service departing Penzance at 21:15.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 13, 2023, 21:28:40
Thanks to TG for getting this thread back on track as it were.

Yes the 1915, 20.40 and the 21.28 Penzance to Plymouth trains all canned.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 13, 2023, 21:41:52
Thanks to TG for getting this thread back on track as it were.

Yes the 1915, 20.40 and the 21.28 Penzance to Plymouth trains all canned.

The 1800 & 1836 Paddington-Plymouth services were both cancelled, & the 1903 started from Reading, so it may be that a lot fewer people  make it as far as Plymouth,  never mind into Cornwall!

2103 Paddington to Exeter also cancelled.

....and the 2115 (sleeper), the "only service currently expected to run" is still at Penzance due to a fault.

Really couldn't make it up.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on August 14, 2023, 03:43:39
Thanks to TG for getting this thread back on track as it were.

Yes the 1915, 20.40 and the 21.28 Penzance to Plymouth trains all canned.

The 1800 & 1836 Paddington-Plymouth services were both cancelled, & the 1903 started from Reading, so it may be that a lot fewer people  make it as far as Plymouth,  never mind into Cornwall!

2103 Paddington to Exeter also cancelled.

....and the 2115 (sleeper), the "only service currently expected to run" is still at Penzance due to a fault.

Really couldn't make it up.
Thew sleep was really having a hissy fit last night/today.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L51072/2023-08-13/detailed#allox_id=0
65 down into Exeter St Davids, then diverted via Yeovil and back up to Castle Cary.
78 down at Castle Cary.
The down sleeper wasn't having much luck either
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54
Facilities on the 23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Will be formed of 9 coaches.
Additional Information
Due to a train fault we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between London Paddington and Penzance.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.


Seems to be many shortform branch DMU's around Exeter today as well.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 14, 2023, 06:39:15

The 1800 & 1836 Paddington-Plymouth services were both cancelled, & the 1903 started from Reading, so it may be that a lot fewer people  make it as far as Plymouth,  never mind into Cornwall!
Things weren’t much fun for those aboard the 1803 Paddington-Penzance who were travelling beyond Plymouth where their 9 car IET turned into a 2 car 150. Still, better than no train at all I guess.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 20, 2023, 21:13:30
Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2023, 05:04:44
Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2023, 09:01:18
Sunday’s haven’t been targeted for any action at all.  Though I agree it’s interesting that Saturday just gone was comparably bad with other Saturday’s when action hasbeen taking place.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 21, 2023, 10:15:34
Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 21, 2023, 10:36:00
Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 

Fully appreciate that.

Workforce management is a challenge faced by all businesses. It just seems that the railways are consistently spectacularly bad at it.

Also appreciate that this goes back to employment strategies which pre-date COVID and were within GWR's gift to resolve for many years, and accountability largely sits with those in the Boardroom rather than managers on the ground.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 21, 2023, 10:53:41
Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 

I can't speak for the people you quote, ellendune - but I can comment as an operator of a business for over a decade on which our busiest day was Sunday and we were often most hard worked at Easter and the other summer bank holidays. We had certain times / shifts that were not popular, but our staff had all joined us with the knowledge that there was going to be substantive work outside 9 to 5, Monday to Friday (I can't think of any common shifts that fitted that "normal working hours pattern.  

It can be done, and with compassion and understanding too.   Saturday / Sunday / Holiday periods are not the time everyone wants off ...

You talk of people tending to go off and find another job?  No - we had virtually zero turnover on the core team; a few joined us for a very short while and found that they didn't really enjoy the work and moved on.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on August 21, 2023, 12:57:36
I can't speak for the people you quote, ellendune - but I can comment as an operator of a business for over a decade on which our busiest day was Sunday and we were often most hard worked at Easter and the other summer bank holidays. We had certain times / shifts that were not popular, but our staff had all joined us with the knowledge that there was going to be substantive work outside 9 to 5, Monday to Friday (I can't think of any common shifts that fitted that "normal working hours pattern.  

It can be done, and with compassion and understanding too.   Saturday / Sunday / Holiday periods are not the time everyone wants off ...

You talk of people tending to go off and find another job?  No - we had virtually zero turnover on the core team; a few joined us for a very short while and found that they didn't really enjoy the work and moved on.

The difference on the railway is that Sunday’s for some are outside of the working week and have always been covered on a voluntary basis.  It’s contracted that way.  The companies and the government do not want Sundays in the working week because it requires substantially more staff increasing costs.  Indeed the recent offer on pay comes with the condition that staff will be required to work overtime to cover Sunday shifts.  There are no discussions to bring Sundays into the working week and unlikely to ever be.

With staff morale at rock bottom, the abysmal diagramming, constant failures of the infrastructure and rolling stock, the grief far out ways the extra income so staff are sticking two fingers up to Sunday’s

The other issue with Sundays is the obvious later start up.  Early shifts can start anytime between 0700 to 1000. With a turn length of between 8 and 10 hours, that’s the whole day with the family lost and meal times affected. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2023, 13:05:50
The difference on the railway is that Sunday’s for some are outside of the working week and have always been covered on a voluntary basis.  It’s contracted that way.  The companies and the government do not want Sundays in the working week because it requires substantially more staff increasing costs.  Indeed the recent offer on pay comes with the condition that staff will be required to work overtime to cover Sunday shifts.  There are no discussions to bring Sundays into the working week and unlikely to ever be.

With staff morale at rock bottom, the abysmal diagramming, constant failures of the infrastructure and rolling stock, the grief far out ways the extra income so staff are sticking two fingers up to Sunday’s

The other issue with Sundays is the obvious later start up.  Early shifts can start anytime between 0700 to 1000. With a turn length of between 8 and 10 hours, that’s the whole day with the family lost and meal times affected. 
Thank you for the explanation regards Sundays a-driver. What was the reason for the sub standard offering on Saturday, particularly later in the day into the evening?

On the Cardiff-Portsmouth line it wasn't down to a lack of drivers as some cancelled services ran ECS suggesting shortage of guards, possibly at Westbury. Same thing happening again on this line today with some services in both directions ending at Westbury.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: ellendune on August 21, 2023, 16:26:18
I think if you compare the responses from Grahame and A-Driver you get a good picture.  If you treat people right then they will go out of the way to make things work.  Treat them badly or just incompetently and why should they bother. 

Interested that government don't want Sundays to be part of the working week.  They just want others to sort their problems for them on the cheap!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: old original on August 21, 2023, 17:26:16
Also another thing which changed was the rates paid for different bits of overtime. Speaking purely for stations, but the same sort of thing has been negotiated for other grades.
Back in the early 2000's we were under "old" BR terms & conditions so when it came to overtime you had ...
Rest day work = time + 1/2
Sunday's = time + 3/4
Saturday's = time + 1/4
Ordinary o/t = time +1/4 for the first 3 hours then time +1/2
Before 6am time + 1/3
After 9pm time + 1/4
Shift allowance, if your earliest booking on time was more than 12 hours from your latest booking off time over a monthly shift pattern, gave an extra 6.25%

... and so on... there was even an instance where, somehow, can't quite remember how but something like working your rest day on a Saturday after 9pm was time + 7/12!!

Messy? Yes but still an incentive..

To tidy all this up management decided to up the basic pay and do away with nearly all the above.
The uplift varied from 3% to 20% with the greatest gainers on the platform and the least in ticket offices and the only enhancement left was time + 1/4 on Sundays.

So what do you think was going to happen?



Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on August 21, 2023, 20:38:08
The rail system is - well - complex in my view; thanks for those insights.   If we had had to start from there, it would have been a significant challenge to put it mildly.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 24, 2023, 06:37:22
Cancellations to services between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street

Due to a shortage of train crew between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street fewer trains are able to run on some lines.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:30 24/08.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 24, 2023, 10:02:17
Cancellations to services between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street

Due to a shortage of train crew between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street fewer trains are able to run on some lines.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:30 24/08.

Rather a dramatic message for what in reality meant the cancellation of one trip!


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 21, 2023, 06:30:42
Cancellations to services between West Ealing and Greenford

Due to a shortage of train crew between West Ealing and Greenford all lines are closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 08:00 21/09.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on September 28, 2023, 18:35:57
Long list of cancellations tomorrow


Quote
Fri, 29 September 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44

29/09/23 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

and other cancellations

Quote
Fri, 29 September 06:05 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 06:34
Fri, 29 September 06:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29
Fri, 29 September 06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 08:09
Fri, 29 September 07:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:30
Fri, 29 September 09:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:27
Fri, 29 September 09:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 11:32
Fri, 29 September 10:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:31
Fri, 29 September 11:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:31
Fri, 29 September 11:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:59
Fri, 29 September 12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 15:08
Fri, 29 September 12:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 14:59
Fri, 29 September 13:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 15:30
Fri, 29 September 13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:57
Fri, 29 September 14:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 19:40
Fri, 29 September 14:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:32
Fri, 29 September 14:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 17:44
Fri, 29 September 15:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 16:56
Fri, 29 September 15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:07
Fri, 29 September 16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:34
Fri, 29 September 17:11 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 19:27
Fri, 29 September 17:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:59
Fri, 29 September 18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:34
Fri, 29 September 19:04 Paignton to London Paddington due 22:29
Fri, 29 September 19:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 21:44
Fri, 29 September 19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:08
Fri, 29 September 19:58 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 22:07
Fri, 29 September 22:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:49

other changes to

Quote
Fri, 29 September 06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40
Fri, 29 September 06:28 Swansea to London Paddington due 09:14
Fri, 29 September 06:40 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 12:21
Fri, 29 September 06:52 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:05
Fri, 29 September 07:03 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:16
Fri, 29 September 07:23 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:12
Fri, 29 September 07:40 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 13:26
Fri, 29 September 08:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 10:38
Fri, 29 September 12:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:08
Fri, 29 September 12:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:31
Fri, 29 September 14:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:23
Fri, 29 September 15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 17:35
Fri, 29 September 15:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 17:30
Fri, 29 September 15:50 Penzance to Gloucester due 20:56
Fri, 29 September 16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:20
Fri, 29 September 16:28 London Paddington to Taunton due 19:12
Fri, 29 September 16:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:59

Goodness - how many crew is that -?-?-?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 28, 2023, 20:27:57
Overtime ban starts tomorrow I think?


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: GBM on September 29, 2023, 05:26:50
Overtime ban starts tomorrow I think?
Cancellations to services on all routes
Due to industrial action:
Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 30/09/23.
Customer Advice
On Friday 29th September, members of the ASLEF union are engaging in Industrial Action short of a strike. Our intention is to run as many services as possible, but some short notice cancellations or alterations to services across the GWR network are to be expected. Please check both your outward and return journey before setting out for the latest information.
***
In addition, on Saturday 30th September and Wednesday 4th October, an extremely limited service will be in operation across the GWR network due to strike action by members of the ASLEF union. Many stations and routes will not be served at all, with services that are running expected to be busy.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 19, 2023, 06:33:02
Not just train crew in Wales - station "crew" too it appears!

Cancellations to services between Swansea and Carmarthen

Due to a shortage of station staff at Carmarthen fewer trains are able to run. Disruption is expected until 13:30 19/10.

Train services between Swansea and Carmarthen will be cancelled.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 19, 2023, 07:47:52
Not just train crew in Wales - station "crew" too it appears!

Cancellations to services between Swansea and Carmarthen

Due to a shortage of station staff at Carmarthen fewer trains are able to run. Disruption is expected until 13:30 19/10.

Train services between Swansea and Carmarthen will be cancelled.

Whilst most stations can operate unstaffed, some cannot or cannot do so fully??   I recall an incident where a train could not pick up passengers at Bristol Parkway because no-one had turned up to unlock / open the station that morning. 


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 19, 2023, 08:36:38
Not just train crew in Wales - station "crew" too it appears!

Cancellations to services between Swansea and Carmarthen

Due to a shortage of station staff at Carmarthen fewer trains are able to run. Disruption is expected until 13:30 19/10.

Train services between Swansea and Carmarthen will be cancelled.

Whilst most stations can operate unstaffed, some cannot or cannot do so fully??   I recall an incident where a train could not pick up passengers at Bristol Parkway because no-one had turned up to unlock / open the station that morning. 

Almost beyond parody.


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: a-driver on October 19, 2023, 17:31:15
Not just train crew in Wales - station "crew" too it appears!

Cancellations to services between Swansea and Carmarthen

Due to a shortage of station staff at Carmarthen fewer trains are able to run. Disruption is expected until 13:30 19/10.

Train services between Swansea and Carmarthen will be cancelled.

Whilst most stations can operate unstaffed, some cannot or cannot do so fully??   I recall an incident where a train could not pick up passengers at Bristol Parkway because no-one had turned up to unlock / open the station that morning. 

Almost beyond parody.

Carmarthen station has to have a staff member on duty. One platform can only be accessed by a barrow crossing and I’m guessing the station member has to be there to supervise the use of that crossing


Title: Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 19, 2023, 23:45:38
Whilst most stations can operate unstaffed, some cannot or cannot do so fully??   I recall an incident where a train could not pick up passengers at Bristol Parkway because no-one had turned up to unlock / open the station that morning. 

Yep. 6th May 2014.

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