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Trams, removing cars and pedestrianising city centre included in new B&NES Council plan
"At the heart of this vision is an ambition to make Bath a city where it is quicker, cleaner and easier to get from A to B"

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BYBRONTE HOWARD
14:54, 13 SEP 2017
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Mark Shelford has announced plans for the city
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A tram or light rail system could be on the cards for Bath as the local authority reveals its latest transport vision for the city.

Bath and North East Somerset Council cabinet member for transport, Mark Shelford, has said at the heart of his plan is the need to reduce the impact cars have on the city.

He's also pledged to promote sustainable transport options to ease congestion and tackle pollution levels.

Mr Shelford (Cons, Lyncombe) said the city needs to have a debate about ideas that can reduce the number of cars on the road.

MP Ben Howlett believes the proposed link road will help reduce congestion
The council plans to improve Bath's air quality
He said: “At the heart of this vision is an ambition to make Bath a city where it is quicker, cleaner and easier to get from A to B, with a transport system that supports our local economy, enhances Bath’s status as a World Heritage Site and reduces levels of air pollution."

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The new plans include:

Improving Bath’s air quality
Greater pedestrian-priority in the city centre
Minimising traffic passing through the city
A popular Mass Public Transport system
Increasing cycle and pedestrian commuter and recreational traffic
Encouraging maximum use of Clean/Ultra Clean Vehicles
Encouraging tourists to use public transport when visiting the city

Councillor Lin Patterson, Mark Shelford and Pat Mason in front of the number 6 bus (Image: David Kernek)
“To achieve this, some major policy decisions will need to be taken about how to reduce the impact of cars on the city and improve our air quality.

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"This includes working at a regional level to deliver the infrastructure needed to reduce the number of vehicles driving into and through our city.

"But it will also require measures that promote sustainable transport, provide attractive public transport options, and encourage the use of low and zero-emission vehicles," he added.


Nitrogen dioxide is emitted from vehicles causing air pollution
Mr Shelford's vision builds on the council's existing Transport Strategy.

This includes:

Securing investment in more attractive public transport alternatives - such as a tram/light rail system, for which the council recently commissioned a feasibility study, as well as regional projects such as the MetroWest rail network.
Establishing an updated Air Quality Action Plan for Bath that seeks to reduce levels of air pollution in the city, particularly on key traffic corridors identified as Air Quality Management Areas.
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Mobile speed camera locations for Bath and North East Somerset from September 11
Increasing use of the city’s Park & Rides by improving road access, such as the junction of Freezing Hill Lane and Togg Hill and the approach to Odd Down Park & Ride.
Providing the infrastructure needed to reduce the number of vehicles passing through the city and a new location for coaches to park outside the city.
Creating more dedicated cycle ways and improving safety for walkers and cyclists through measures such as improved lighting.
Looking at ways to reduce school-run traffic, such as investment in safe walking and cycling routes.
“The council is already working on a new parking strategy, air quality action plan, and looking at innovate ideas such as a light-rail system, but we need to bring these different strands together into an overarching transport vision for our city.

"That why I wanted to start a debate about the type of measures that could be introduced, and I am keen to hear what residents think and listen to any ideas people have which could help us address the transport challenges facing our city," said the cabinet member.

Bath residents accepting overhead wires for these trams? Yeah, right./

Bath residents accepting overhead wires for these trams? Yeah, right./

Anyway I'm sure the Victorians who installed the Bath Electric Tramways

Edwardians. The electric tram service stated in 1903.

Previous company ran horse drawn trams until 1902.

They might be keen on this system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply)

I can't see it ever happening in such a small city though, however the power might be supplied!

You could go for...

...the 'Bristol' solution - a 'tram-like experience' which looks like a bus, smells like a bus and quacks like a bus.

A £450,000 investment in studies to get Bath moving has been hailed has a shot in the arm by campaigners who want to bring trams back to the city.

Bristol and Bath Trams chairman Dave Andrews said reviving the network was the only effective way to tackle congestion and attract more businesses, and argued it should expand to Radstock and other Somerset towns.

The West of England Combined Authority (Weca) study will run alongside a £1.95million project to assess the feasibility of a mass transit system between Bristol and Bath, that will again consider the use of trams.

The scheme aims to prompt a “step change” in how people travel but could cost £100million to draw up plans before any construction work begins.

Speaking after last week's meeting of the Bristol and Bath Trams group, Mr Andrews said: “This is excellent news and we hope that the study confirms what we have been promoting - i.e. [a tram network] - on the basis that buses or busways have never solved a traffic problem in any British city.

“Car drivers simply will not use buses as they do not offer the required quality of service, in terms of comfort, prestige, reliability that a tram can.

“Numerous cities in Europe have a tram system, including historic cities, and those smaller than Bath, where it is obvious that only a tram can deliver less traffic congestion and commercial regeneration, and it is amazing that a high profile heritage city such as Bath does not have one.

“Ultimately, we need Radstock and other Somerset towns connected by light rail/tram to the Bath-Bristol network to enable people from out of the cities to get to work, on time, reliably and at not excessive cost.”

More public money being spent to achieve what we already know, introduce congestion charges to tempt motorists to use P & R facilities.

I do understand that a lot of people still feel they're somehow "lowering themselves" if they use a bus rather than a private car - that's the "prestige" argument ... not so sure on the comfort and reliability arguments - unless you have dedicated rights of way to make the trams more reliable, which perhaps BaNES could do for buses if they had the political will.

I do understand that a lot of people still feel they're somehow "lowering themselves" if they use a bus rather than a private car - that's the "prestige" argument ...

I never understand why public transport is always aimed at people from outside of the town or city. Park and Ride is banded about like it's the solution to everything, when it is only a small part of a solution, and probably something that shouldn't be the first priority.

Perhaps some valuable local insight into the viability of P & R serving an urban rail based system will be obtained from the results of the Bristol Portway P&R station when it is finally up and running (and when the service becomes half hourly).

I wouldn't hold your breath about that... Line capacity is not there; the signalling installation couldn't cope; the train with its circuitous route actually tales longer than the bus currently does to get to BTM; and even the provision of a simple single platform might run into difficulties over having to purchase land and/or lose parking spaces (which itself is the opposite intention of a P&R scheme ;) ) Whilst doing some research about this on another forum I happened to notice that a) the only people proposing this are some Bristol City Councillors and b) the P&R bus service receives a council subsidy. It might not be too much of a leap to conclude that the only reason some are in favour of it is to save the council money and put the financial burden on DfT and GWR...

But to get back on topic, we should perhaps remember why trams fell from favour in the UK in the first place, which was mainly due to their inflexibility. They cannot go around obstacles like a bus, and they are slow to react to new traffic flows. Imagine Bristol had a tram network, for example, before the virtual new town of Bradley Stoke was built; would the lines have been extended out there even by now?

Trams work best when they have their own dedicated thoroughfares or are only sharing them with pedestrians and other forms of public transport. Where there is an interface with "ordinary" road traffic there can easily be problems - one I witnessed about 20 years ago was in Fleetwood, where an idiot who had parked a delivery truck without sufficient thought managed to bring the Blackpool tram service to a standstill until someone went to find the driver and got him to shift it! :) Such things would be one of the problems in Bath because, without a bypass and few alternative through routes, so much road traffic has to run so close to the city centre.

Any thoughts of reintroducing trams to Bath would involve a lot more than digging the odd road up and laying rails; it would mean a complete transformation of the city centre's road network, including that bypass that was rejected in the 60s on grounds of cost (as much of it would have to be in tunnel).

I wouldn't hold your breath about that... Line capacity is not there; the signalling installation couldn't cope; the train with its circuitous route actually tales longer than the bus currently does to get to BTM...

Any thoughts of reintroducing trams to Bath would involve a lot more than digging the odd road up and laying rails; it would mean a complete transformation of the city centre's road network, including that bypass that was rejected in the 60s on grounds of cost (as much of it would have to be in tunnel).

There is, of course, quite close correlation between clean air zones and traffic congestion now (in 2019) but in 10 years time, with most vehicles being electric (??) you could have perfectly clean air but still congestion!

...about 50% of the particulates from cars come from the tyres and brakes.

I must be misreading this because it almost seems like you are advocating the resurrection of the Buchanon Tunnel (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Bath_Tunnel)! Cost may have been a factor in the abandonment of this scheme, but public protest would have killed it even had the money been forthcoming. I do however think it quite likely that within a few years Bath's central road layout will be radically transformed - by the simple expedient of banning all private motor traffic except essential users. Such a move would allow for street running of trams in that area; arguably the two things could go hand in glove.

But to get back on topic, we should perhaps remember why trams fell from favour in the UK in the first place, which was mainly due to their inflexibility. They cannot go around obstacles like a bus, and they are slow to react to new traffic flows. Imagine Bristol had a tram network, for example, before the virtual new town of Bradley Stoke was built; would the lines have been extended out there even by now?

Trams work best when they have their own dedicated thoroughfares or are only sharing them with pedestrians and other forms of public transport. Where there is an interface with "ordinary" road traffic there can easily be problems - one I witnessed about 20 years ago was in Fleetwood, where an idiot who had parked a delivery truck without sufficient thought managed to bring the Blackpool tram service to a standstill until someone went to find the driver and got him to shift it! :) Such things would be one of the problems in Bath because, without a bypass and few alternative through routes, so much road traffic has to run so close to the city centre.

Any thoughts of reintroducing trams to Bath would involve a lot more than digging the odd road up and laying rails; it would mean a complete transformation of the city centre's road network, including that bypass that was rejected in the 60s on grounds of cost (as much of it would have to be in tunnel).

I have searched for the facts behind this claim and struggled rather because it's not just particulates, but their sizes that matter. We can dismiss the argument about brakes, because although EV's are heavier than their ICE equivalents, extensive use of regenerative braking means they produce fewer brake dust particulates. It must be the case that EVs produce more tyre particulates though - but are these the ones we worry about? Isn't it the smaller soot particles that we're concerned about?

I once heard someone who felt the need to explain to a bus driver that he wouldn't normally catch a bus, and that was only using one today because his car was being serviced. I don't know what he expected the driver to do; maybe he hoped he'd doff his cap and say what a pleasure it was to have someone with 'class' on board for a change, or perhaps he hoped he might offer to let him drive...

I sure won't hold my breath until it opens but the completion date is by the end of the year, all funded, land aquired and ground surveys complete. The minor signalling changes are, I am informed, included in the budget and half hourly services will be part of the Metrowest project.

My first thought when I read this story is that the guy was probably letting the driver know about his inexperience of bus travel, so that he wouldn't have been thought "a bit dim." For example, people who use buses regularly would know how the system works eg:

How to buy a ticket
Know what the fare is
Knowing where the stop is to get off
How you stop the bus (eg ring a bell, ask the driver, the bus will stop anyway)
How you stop the bus to get on on the way back

A non-bus user might not have a clue about these matters

I notice that Graham is involved with the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways. Perhaps he can give us an update

Further update regarding Portway Parkway received from Bristol City Council for the benefit of forum members:


EDIT: Also posted here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21203.msg260680#msg260680) due to ongoing relevant thread.

I notice that Graham is involved with the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways. Perhaps he can give us an update

Fair point although on a very personal basis (and as a non car driver) I do feel more "upmarket" in a tram, rightly or wrongly.
Unquestionably though, I find rail based travel generally more comfortable as buses tend to bounce you more through all 3 dimensions rather than the more gradual sway of trains and trams. Trams and trains also tend to feel a lot less "stop/start than buses
which again adds to the feeling that you are on a better mode of transport.

Busy thread I note ... has anyone else answer while I've been time-sharing between typing and watching The Chase?

Hmmm ... I sorta learn a lot across the whole South West and I was guest speaker at the FoSBR ... I suppose that's sorta "involved" ... but I will leave others to speak for them.

My understanding is that the platform needs to go in pretty soon because the money that's there for it has to be spent by a certain time (end of this year??) or is lost.   However, you won't seen half hourly trains from December even if the platform's there and open for service.

Busy thread I note ... has anyone else answer while I've been time-sharing between typing and watching The Chase?

'Be brave and get on with it' - Bath urged to build tram network

Imagine a world in which Bath's roads were not clogged with traffic. A world where people compared the city to Vienna or Zurich.