Great Western Coffee Shop

My huge apology, LawrenceHillBilly - in adding your post to the diary, I deleted your original text ... and it had only been posted for such a short time that it hadn't made the hourly backups  ;)   - Grahame

This has already been discussed in the existing IEP thread.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=10150.msg220164#msg220164 et seq

The passenger service mentioned will be the first operated by an IET, Intercity Express Train, which is the name chosen for these trains by the current operator of the Greater Western franchise.

IEP, Intercity Express Programme, is the name given to the procurement, design, build and testing of these trains.

Mods, perhaps this thread (IEP in title changed to IET) can be the start of discussion into the passenger service operation of these trains. The existing thread is on the 'Looking Forward' board. The future is almost here...

I have indeed added to the calendar ... and as you'll note, I made an error in my editing (thinking I was quoting not editing) and deleted the original post

First services is the 06:00 Bristol to Paddington on 16th October 2017

My plans for a trip on (and review of) the GWR Intercity Express Train (IET) are now fixed for Monday. With thanks to another forum member for helping out with tickets.

All being well I plan to be on the 0930 from Bristol Temple Meads, which is the back working of the 0700 off Paddington. If there's any other forum members planning to take this service then do come and say hello. I'll be very easy to spot. Usual grey flat cap, and additionally my dog, Finn.

I'll try and get plenty of pictures of the interior, hopefully including 1st Class before departure.



Mods, thread title still needs IEP changed to IET on a couple of posts.

Done.

Look forward to your report and pics of this important milestone for our region. My gosh we've waited long enough.

Attached is a picture doing the rounds on social media and rail enthusiast forums. The planned passenger diagrams for GWR's IET introduction.

I took a peak at the new year timetable for Maidenhead to Paddington. National rail have details up to 3rd Jan today.  I'm really pleased with what I can see so far, with double the number of fast direct services in the 7am-7.30am peak.
I have my fingers and toes crossed for a deployment that mirrors the timetable.

Edit: I've just checked the evening return leg and that is quite depressing. There is no increase in the current poor provision of fast services. It's 2tph at xx.18 and xx.48 or thereabouts.  I had hoped that a better evening provision was on the cards as that's what I was promised by FGW and GWR at their meet the manager events for years.

One major requirement for the IETs to enter front line service was completed yesterday.

Ian Prosser, Chief Inspector of Railways at the Office of Rail & Road, signed off the Class 800s to enter revenue earning passenger service.

There will be significant changes every December and May until the end of 2019 when Crossrail starts, so hopefully the evening peak should improve too.  What happens after Crossrail for Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough will be interesting.

As well as the 18 / 48 pasts, Maidenhead also gets some not quite as fast services with the 17:26 (33mins), the 17:57 (29mins) and the 18:56 (34mins).

As II says the timetable will keep changing over the next two years with the start and then full implementation of crossrail, the full implementation of the IETs and the working of the class 387s operating at 110mph all to come.

With 6 crossrail trains per hour, it will be expected that Maidenhead passengers to use these, slower yes, but also more frequent. I agree that Maidenhead is a large commuting hub, though we've had this discussion in the past whereby everyone wants a fast direct service into London which is not possible. For every stop that is made on the main line, you lose a path for fast services heading further west. Having say 4 trains per hour call at Maidenhead gives you potentially 4 less trains per hour heading to further away destinations*, start throwing in calls at Slough and Twyford as well and an even greater headache is caused for the timetable planners.

* I can think of numerous forum members who would complain if a reduction of services to places such as Taunton, the Cotswold branch or Swindon (For Melksham) were to occur to facilitate additional stops in the Thames Valley.

* Yes, one way round this would be to have all long distance trains stopping at one TV location to minimise the loss of paths, but other problems would occur such as long distance passengers complaining of standing due to short distance commuters etc.

For that final point, more so on the evening trip, I feel.

Hmmm ... when the new timetable to take advantage of the IET's improved electric performance envelope and reduced station dwell time is introduced Swindon switches from being "all trains call at Swindon" into a service that selected services miss out, like Didcot is at present.

Provided that there are gaps of no longer than 20 minutes in fast services to London (let's define that as "no more than 2 intermediate stops on a train running at well over 100 m.p.h), with the ability for everyone to get their luggage on and have a seat, that's OK by me personally.    I would also like to see a gaps of no longer than 30 minutes in trains that call at Didcot (for Oxford) after Swindon ... unless some kind soul would like to provide a direct Swindon to Oxford service which they're starting tomorrow ... then withdrawing again at the end of Sunday  :-\ .

---

One of the draft timetables / ideas (not sure if it's the current flavour) has 4 trains an hour Bristol Temple Meads to Paddington - two with the current stopping pattern, one calling at Bristol Parkway then fast to Reading, and one calling at Bath Spa and Chippenham and fast to Reading.

From a TransWilts viewpoint, this is going to complicate the advise we give to Trowbridge and Melksham to Reading and London passengers, which is currently "always change at Swindon on the way up". That advise is based on the knowledge that if the main line services aren't running to schedule, getting to Swindon and changing onto first available train makes sense.

And I do hope that the new schedule takes great care of Chippenham to Bath and Bristol traffic - with 3 trains an hour rather that 2, indications are positive on that front;  worthwhile to log a reminder that more passenger journeys from Chippenham start out heading west than heading east, even though more revenue is generated by passengers heading east rather than west.

Hmmm - I see no/little difference between Swindon & Oxford, who only get 2tph 'fast'. Frankly, a 2tph service (on the same route - so 2tph BRI via BPW, and 2tph via CPH is good) west of RDG, is the minimum.

If SWI demands 3tph, and I'm not sure it does frankly, the OXF ought to get the same (but won't)

All that could possibly stand in the way of a Monday launch is the dreaded 'Engineering Works Overrun'.

I picked this up this morning:

Swindon currently has 4 or 5 fast trains per hour to London, and no slower trains. A lot of that is indeed a factor of how they splay out as they get further west.  Ongoing from Oxford to major destinations is really the single route that ends up at Hereford, rather than 3 routes from Swindon to such little hamlets as Bristol and Cardiff!

New service will probably see 7 trains - but some passing through none-stop - into London (4 from Bristol via Chippenham - CPM [[not CPH, please - Caerphilly is not a big flow from Swindon]] and via Parkway), 2 from South Wales and one from Cheltenham Spa.   My suggestion wasn't 3 an hour calling at Swindon - it was a request for a maximum headway of 20 minutes.  At a level of 3 an hour, you would be halving express service from Chippenham to Swindon, and from Bristol Parkway to Swindon ... and I suspect that would cause some significant grumbles!

But drowned out by the cheers of faster services to Reading & London from those at the same stations! :-)

I take your point for down services - that 1tph to CPM and CDF for example isn't sufficient, but 2tph into SWI is sufficient for everyone. So with the splits in route x3 at SWI, I guess they all ought to stop. But 5tph from SWI to the east is rather overkill.

Yep!  :)

I'm guessing that numerous 'enthusiasts' will be on the 06:00 from Bristol tomorrow, thus making the train busier than usual...... Have GWR responded by running the following service to take up some of the 'normal commuters', which would appear to be a class 180?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V08478/2017/10/16/advanced

0600 HSTituted apparently.

And the 0630 cancelled to rub salt into the wound. Due to a broken down train......

Journey check tells me

06:33 now reinstated at the expense of the 06:20 from Weston super Mare which now starts from Temple Meads at 07:00.

CIS at Bath reports

Appears to have left depot an hour late but will be class 800.

Reports suggest a spare HST has been at Bristol (P7) just in case

Being live tweeted by https://twitter.com/clinnick1

Just saw this go past, I would say a grand total of near to zero on board from what I could tell, guess it'll pick up more from Reading

Richard Clinnick's facebook page shows Messrs Grayling and Hopwood in first class coach K. I wonder how much they paid for their tickets.....

Reports suggest electric is being used out of Paddington, as if proof was needed, 07:00 off Paddington, 3 mins early by Acton, 4 mins early at Slough

NOthing I would imagine, and why would they pay?

On board the 07:00 out of Paddington.

With Hitachi’s involvement perhaps not surprising there seemed to be more Japanese TV crews on the platform that anyone else.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iet5.jpg)

Selection of other photos

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iet1.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iet2.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iet3.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iet4.jpg)

.......to save the taxpayer the expense?

Because Hopwood is the MD of the railway and travelling on company business, and Grayling is his invited guest for the launch event. 

More importantly, ITV is reporting that they had problems coupling the two units together at the depot, hence the reason why it set off 25 minutes late from Bristol. Really?  You couldn't make it up could you? Hitachi should have had the units ready hours before for such an important launch event.  At least they didn't run the service short formed though...

Rumour has it the PAD arrival has had technical difficulties and won't arrive! RTT showing it hasn't cleared Slough yet but not sure if this an error.

Finally arrived nearly 40min late...

Geeetings from a HST based service which I boarded at Reading for Paddington . Sadly it don't know the origin of the service I was too busy trying to board and get a seat

We have been switched onto the "slow" up line - does anyone know if this is connected with the introduction of the IETs today ?

Update: we were routed back on to the Up Main (?) line just west on Slough station

Eeeeekkk! BBC Points West Tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/bbcpointswest/status/919822837136936961

Excellent! Ideal for dealing with smelly trainspotters  ;D

Up working 1C03 seems to have had a rather disastrous debut. Arrived at Padd 41 mins late. Failed to switch over from diesel to AC at Maidenhead, so diesel all the way to Padd. Return working 1B12 8:15 to Cardiff has been cancelled.

Down working 1A03 seems to be doing a bit better, 7 mins late at Bath.

No doubt they'll sort it all out eventually but fabled 'Japanese reliability' has taken a bit of a knock!

Was this the moment when things started going swimmingly for the debutante ?

Is this the first dog to travel on a Class 800?

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgV083a0YxZmQ4S3M)

He very probably is. And so very very adorably photogenic. He could almost be looking into a gramophone horn just waiting for HMV !

1A03 was the up working, 1C03 the down,

Ooops sorry, wrong way round.  :-[

Wonder how long it's been since the word "Intercity" has appeared on screens (or Solari boards!) at Paddington?

Hope there wasn't a welcoming committee planned for the first scheduled IET into Wales.

From the ground...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICvraOwbg7M


And from the air....
https://mobile.twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/919820542542217216/video/1

I did wonder about the helicopter I could hear

It's somehow quite fitting & a suitable metaphor for GWR.......wonder how the Famous 5 are coping?  ::)

800009 leading 1A11 0930 Bristol TM - London Paddington. 800008 at the rear. I'm on board with Finn, bobm and PhilWakely.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgbUJVdW5vUGRycHc)

Who? Mark Carne, Mark Hopwood, Tim O'Toole and Chris Grayling? I don't think BNM would let them borrow his little dog Finn.

The scene when I arrived at Paddington about 830 this morning

1A03 stopped with a fault at the changeover point from Diesel to Electric, trains behind were diverted onto the Up Relief line Twyford to Slough. I presume the IET had carried on its journey (on diesel) by the time you got to where it had stopped (around Taplow).

Almost certainly the first pet dog to travel with a fare paying passenger.
Earlier non public testing might have included blind people and their guide dogs ?

Me too!  ;D

First impressions, very nice, good smooth acceleration, lets hope they get the pan up this time!
If not Richard Branson might be getting his balloon out again, replacing BA with GWR!
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e9bb8c4716c7f0a68805ce48498503e1209637ea/706_223_1679_1007/1679.jpg?w=1200&h=630&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=crop&crop=faces%2Centropy&bm=normal&ba=bottom%2Cleft&blend64=aHR0cHM6Ly91cGxvYWRzLmd1aW0uY28udWsvMjAxNi8wNS8yNS9vdmVybGF5LWxvZ28tMTIwMC05MF9vcHQucG5n&s=3517d947960376efd61992253c847a34)

He says the seats are firm  :(

but interiors are to be changed  :)

After Maidenhead, passing Slough. We're on the leccy.

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgbXFRTHRfazNkcGs)

Noticeably different underfloor sound when accelerating on leccy. A typically electric motor "whine".

I travelled from London down to Bristol and then back to Chippenham.  (See some earlier photos up the thread)  Obviously, judging by reports, I chose the better of the two trains to be on.

Certainly on board they make for a comfortable journey.  The seats are firm, which some might find uncomfortable, but they were ok for me.

Each pair of seats has two power points under the arm-rests which is better than between the seats in front of you as on an HST.  Not only easier to reach but won't be used as a footrest and thus broken.

Most seats have a proper window view.  There are a few at the end of a carriage which have no view at all and some others with only a partial one.  The only thing I don't really like are the window shades.  They are similar to the ones on the Voyagers where they cover more than one set of seats, so you'll have to bargain with the person sitting behind you if you want the blind down or up.

I didn't count the number of tables in a standard class coach but it is certainly more than an HST.

First class has bigger tables and more room

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/ietfirst.jpg)

I did see several people knock their heads on the overhead rack when getting up from their seats.  Also at the end of each train the gangway to the front and rear carriage has a lower headroom.  The floor does slope slightly to compensate - but it is another thing to look out for.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iethead.jpg)

Some work is needed on the external signage

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/ietsign.jpg)

The photo actually highlights the text above each element of the display - but on the platform you can hardly see it and 09:30 Bath Spa isn't very intuitive when you are at Bristol Temple Meads wanting the 09:30 to Paddington.  Hopefully they can make the Time and Next Stop text stand out a bit more.

There is also no exterior signage showing where cyclists should board with their non folding bicycles.  There was one report of a person trying to join the driver in the cab with one!

Also the first door after the driver's door is for the kitchen and so not for passenger use - but it isn't marked as such.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/ietkitch.jpg)

On both trips we did lose time at stations while people got used to the doors (and which ones they could use).

Heading down to Bristol we had an extra delay at Chippenham when it was realised the rear three coaches wouldn't be platformed at Bath and a couple of bicycles had to be moved down the platform ready to alight at the next stop.  Once at Bath there was another delay while those in the rear three (the majority of standard class in the rear five car train) had to walk through to get off.  As people become more familiar with the trains hopefully they won't sit at the back of the train if they want Bath.

In standard class the trolley duly came through and people made use of it

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iettrol.jpg)

Seems the trolleys belong to Hitachi rather than GWR too

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/iettrol2.jpg)

The ride was smooth.  I didn't detect when we switched from the overhead to diesel at Maidenhead and we arrived early into Reading on the down trip.

Needless to say a lot of Hitachi and GWR managers on board the train.

Also one local BBC Radio reporter doing vox pops of passengers.   Her first question to the person sitting opposite me - "Is this the first time you have travelled on one of these trains?"   ???

NHK report: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20171016/k10011179471000.html?utm_int=news_contents_news-main_005

Automated translation of the report from Japanese:

On 16 October in the UK, the high-speed rail vehicle manufactured by Hitachi, a major electronics manufacturer utilizing the Shinkansen technology, began operating operations, and the track record in the birthplace of the railway would lead to the expansion of orders for Japan manufacturers.

In the United Kingdom, a project of 800 billion yen is underway to update a vehicle that is decrepit by a railway connecting major cities, and Hitachi has ordered the production of 866 vehicles.

On the 16th, three hundred kilometers between the capital London and Wales, the operation started with this vehicle, and a brand new green train left the London station with many guests.

The maximum speed is 200 kmh, and the technology of the Shinkansen has been introduced to the device which suppresses the noise, and the passenger said, "It is very quiet and easy to ride" or "The inside of the car is clean and comfortable".

This vehicle is manufactured in Yamaguchi Prefecture and finished in the UK, and the majority of trains delivered in the future will be produced locally.

The product that the Kobe steel plant was tampering with the data in the body is used, but the managing director of Hitachi's Masai Kentaro is "properly verified and has no problem with safety." I'm afraid the problem is that it's a manufacturer's responsibility to deliver safe products. "

The birthplace of the railway, in the UK, the largest rail project in Europe, which connects the major cities in London and central Japan by 360 kilometers per hour, is planned, but the competition of manufacturers is increasing in intensity, and the results of this time will be focused on the expansion of orders made by Japan manufacturers.

The world rail market is expected to scale to 20 trillion yen, and the competition for the order acquisition has increased as the demand to update the vehicle which is decrepit in the advanced country as well as the development plan of the high-speed railway is increased.

Ah well hopefully after a few thousand people have sat on them they'll soften.

I believe that the crew door was covered in the same colour as the rest of the train to dissuade passengers from trying to use it. They were supposed to just use the grey ones instead but interesting to hear that's not always worked.


That's a shame about the trolley as it appears to be a Sovereign S-Lite In-Cup Trolley http://www.sovonline.co.uk/rail-catering-trolleys. That means no coffee machine and that's a seriously retrograde step for the coffee drinkers.  Ben Rule posted on this site saying:


Well that trolley doesn't seem to be much different from the existing trolleys in use already today. They could have gone for something like a modified version of this https://www.ceka.ch/files/medien/bilder/Branchen/ceka-minibar-03.jpg and kept the coffee from fresh beans and not instant. I guess my expectations were raised too high.


  ::)  ::) ::)

Oops

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/intercity-express-train-break-down-first-service-bristol-london-paddington-transport-secretary-rush-a8002471.html

My train into Paddington was over 30 mins late after being moved to the relief line to make way for VIPs......

As I mentioned earlier I was on an HST  service that was switched to relief line after leaving Reading and then switched back prior to Slough. I was surprised how fast we were travelling on the relief line. I know it's slightly off topic but what is the maximum speed allowed on that section of relief track?

From memory it's 90mph for the relief lines but don't quote me on that as I may well be wrong.

A somewhat less positive view from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41633356 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-41633356)

I won't quote in full as there's a lot of Twitter screenshots and the like

If I am reading the sectional appendix correctly it *is* 90mph on the Up Relief from Reading to Southall except though Maidenhead and Slough stations where it is 75mph.

Thanks my memory clearly not as bad as I feared.

Do you have to pay extra to use the onboard showers?  ;D

More than just a few drips wasn't it. I know it's very warm and muggy with air being drawn up from the South, but that is one very enthusiastic air con unit.

I suspect it was left on overnight and the condensation wasn't being cleared. Then when the train was moved the condensation did too. According to someone on twitter a fair few people and one laptop were hit. The press and media are unsurprisingly having a field day over this. There are numerous requests on twitter from various media outlets to use the pictures posted on twitter of people standing/water dripping.

BBC Points West showed the laptop on its side being dried out.

Looks like the BBC crew got out at Reading as they had no footage regarding the reported problems switching from diesel to electric in the Maidenhead area.

The classic reason is a blockage in the condensation line but there can be other causes.

Happened to me in a plane years ago on descent. Fortunately it wasn't quite as bad and could be mopped up by a pile of blankets.

Photo I took at PAD around 1130 this morning (with Geoff Marshall of 'All The Stations' fame in the shot on the left!)

I was directly behind it on an already badly delayed HST, too close to be switched over. It came in an hour late in the end. Not impressed.

Happened to me where I used to work and water would pour out of the air-con unit if not emptied regularly. Could get easily 2.5 - 3 litres in 8hrs.

It's obviously pretty common - my desk at work was twice doused by a chiller in the roof, though not while I was there. Wrote off two monitors; the old CRT ones were so not showerproof.

MD of Hitachi Rail Karen Boswell has issued an apology for the issues of the first train this morning

https://twitter.com/HitachiRailEU/status/919930521345544197

Now where is the one from Mark Hopwood ...

Saw it on GWR's Twitter feed just now. Good of Hitachi to fess up but that would be the Japenese way. They would have been most embarrassed by what had happened this morning.

Was just about to ask, was Mr Hopwood around for the launch? Have yet to see any pics of him?

He was the funny little guy in the hat, dancing with the Duchess of Cambridge at Paddington around lunchtime. Hope he washed the marmalade off his sticky fingers first !

:D :D :D Brilliant! We do have some good humour on this forum  ;D

I suspect Ms Boswell will be getting some very frank feedback from her bosses. This was Hitachi's most important day in terms of media profile and they have right royally screwed it up. And in doing so made their customers (DfT and GWR) appear a laughing stock.

I don't think it's on Twitter she needs to be making her apologies.

.....from the Telegraph.....

https://trib.al/Oa4NnMi

Re Mark Hopwood at this morning's launch - Yes, saw him in the background of a shot of all the press surrounding the Hitachi bigwig....

Leakage of condensate from air conditioning units is indeed a relatively common fault, but simply should not happen on a new and very expensive train.

If the condensate line was blocked, not connected, or otherwise defective from new then that suggests poor quality control.
If a fault had developed during test running, then that is a bit worrying on a still new train.

The weather this morning was warmer and more humid than normal for the time of year, but was cooler and less humid than many summer days. The train did not appear heavily loaded, I wonder what will happen on a hot humid day with a crowded train.

I can only recall one train ride where it was 'raining' inside due (I supposed) to the air conditioning system. The unit was a class 175 and I think it was a cold evening outside but possibly even colder inside (the 175's aircon was seemingly in 'Arctic Mode'), so perhaps showers is more of a cold-weather fault?

Regarding the delay this morning, was the train late off the depot? If so, does Hitachi get a penalty for that under the no-train, no-pay IEP contract or is it only a total failure to provide a set that incurs such a penalty?

Yes, it was over an hour late leaving. I'm sure there will be a penalty for not presenting a train for service at the right time, else what's the point of having a contract where Hitachi are on the hook to provide a set for each journey which doesn't catch such a failure. 

The apology was posted on Twitter because it's from there it can be shared far and wide.

I think it's very good she has appeared on camera in the immediate aftermath and apologised unreservedly. That is no doubt because she is working for a Japanese company. That's the way they do things in the land if the rising sun.

I can think of at least one other MD from the same industry who would do well to ape Karen Boswell. Publicly apologising for the atrocious service his company has provided to its customers in recent months.

Now, the new trains. My impressions. Teething problems aside I think the Class 80x will be a worthy successor to the HST. The passenger environment is very good. There's attention to detail throughout the train. One design feature I particularly liked was the slot in the middle of the airline seat drop down tables. Allows you to rest a tablet (or a phone in portrait aspect) at a decent viewing angle.

Far more tables than the HSTs and much greater legroom. My only concern on the tables and legroom front are that these can be changed at a later date to accommodate even more seated passengers.

A comfortable smooth ride. With no complaints from me about the seats. The correct upright design to promote good posture. It's a myth that a soft enveloping seat is more comfortable. I remember well the back ache I had on my last trip to Norwich sat in an IC70.

The coffee from the trolley was acceptable. Better than the dishwater you get from a CrossCountry trolley.

I'm looking forward to trying the 1st Class experience. That'll probably wait until there's a confirmed Pullman service on a Class 80x. Breakfast from, or Brunch to, Swansea will most likely be the first Class 800 Pullman.

I can't comment on the toilets. Didn't need!

And there's no complaints from Finn. The underfloor engines were quiet enough for him to curl up on the floor and sleep.

Introducing a service on Monday morning on a generally busy service was certainly not the best choice; one of the two sets was unfit for service due to the waterfall in Carriage D (or as GWR would like to pretend Carriage K sadly they forgot to move the reservations so the true letter was known). As you can imagine that meant no First Class Service for passengers in Carriages D or E.
Add to that the debacle of the Diesel to AC transfer and you get an impression of my normal commute.
When I looked in the morning the backup plan of a HST was in progress with a set waiting to operate 1A03 sat in Platform 7 at Bristol Temple Meads, OK it was in reverse formation but no problem as that’s fairly typical for a post engineering works Monday.

It appears that having decided the train was to run at all costs a decision to re-form the train was taken thus the train was re-formed and departed 1 hour late (now with a working VIP section but no remaining first class), now with no hope of recovering the lost time.

By Didcot the train was reported as full and standing, at Reading this was announced along with a suggestion to board 1K71 which was being held to allow the late running 1A03 to depart ahead of it. However since 1K71 was already full and standing that wasn't of any use to anyone awaiting the service (1K71 was running late due to missing train crew at Bristol Temple Meads).
I should note that at Reading there were very few people specifically waiting for the new train.
For the record 1P13 and 1L08 the preceding 2 services both departed full and standing in both classes.


It appears that having realised one set had no viable First Class; Mark Hopwood's team decided it was better to run the service late and seat invited guests rather than the long suffering paying customers.

To make matters worse the Customer Information System on the platforms fails to display the carriage order merely reminding potential passengers of the carriage letters which constitute first class.
That wouldn't have been so bad but in deciding to re-order the carriages someone had managed to exchange the carriage letters but not move the reservations. Consequently the train was announced as not having seat reservations.

Above carriage D something was in the airflow, perhaps this is connected to the air conditioning waterfall which means its nosier than expected, although it doesn't suffer like the earlier Hitachi products like the Javelin which sounded like they were about to rattle every internal panel loose.

So far not great but then came the Diesel to AC change over, Maidenhead was passed and then the brakes came on and the train halted in Taplow station trapping the two following HSTs behind, behind those HSTs were put onto the Relief Line (oddly the video of that one passing wasn't on the twitter feed). Consequential further delays to 1K71.
The driver takes to the PA with an alarm in the background as technicians are summoned to the leading cab, fine in theory but the technicians are trapped in the rear set as the doors haven't been released. Eventually common sense prevails and a return to Diesel power is successful.

Whilst the build quality (technical fault with the equipment in Carriage D) can be fixed for me it revealed:
a. Whilst a small increase in seat numbers is offered by a 2x5 car set or 1x9 car set its already too little to meet the existing peak demand
b. When things go wrong GWR are not quick to react or react in favour of narrow self interest
c. Station customer information displays have not been updated to reflect the new stock

After what happened to the service from Bristol I'm not surprised he stayed in the background. "These aren't my trains guv, they belong to Hitachi and Dft are making me lease them for loads of money."

Aside from the problems suffered on 1A03 and the cancellation of 1B12, the other workings appear to have run with only minor problems.

I notice that a couple of potential challenges for the immediate future have not been mentioned. The 10-car trains do not fit into the platforms at Bath Spa, Chippenham or Didcot Parkway and it took some time for pax to get off/get on, leading to potential delays. There was also a problem unloading cycles from 1C03 at Chippenham.   

Supposition on my part but I understand that it was *a* train late from the depot.  In other words the planned sets failed and another pair were pressed into service at short notice.  Obviously safety critical items would have been checked on the replacement but I suspect aircon isn't one of them.  Agreed that is little comfort for those who had an impromptu shower.  Similarly it is possible the change over in traction mode failed due to driver error.  These are obviously things that will be being looked at this very moment because no one will want a repeat tomorrow.

There was a problem with the reservation system on the 07:00 from Paddington.  The set at the London end appeared not to have the electronic system working from the start.  However the country end was working until about 06:50 when, just as I was about to take a photo of them, they all disappeared and the old style tickets were placed on the headrests.

I suspect it may be a training issue.  I noticed on the return journey we had automated announcements about calling patterns, the next station, the fact it was a busy service and do not put bags on seats and the usual security announcement.  The only one I didn't hear was about the quiet coach - of which there are two on a ten car.  

I was on 1C03 at Chippenham.  As I mentioned up thread the problem was, thankfully, someone realised the bike store on the rear set wouldn't be platformed at Bath so took the opportunity of the Chippenham stop to get them unloaded and wheeled down the platform to an area that would be ok for Bath.  I think the train, certainly on the down, was fully platformed at both Chippenham and Didcot Parkway.

It will certainly be interesting to see how performance improves (or not) on 1A03 up to Christmas, at least now I know where my seat is within the carriage (since the reserved seat turns out to be the same number now all the way through until then).

Although I'm not looking forward to the prospect of trying to guess which of the 4 possible carriage positions it will arrive in at Reading each day!

The slow boarding problem isn't likely to be solved soon as the train isn't designed with suburban commuting in mind, today if you happened to be slightly slow at getting to the door to leave you would have been met with a large flow and through the narrow vestibule passengers weren't making good progress as they met boarding passengers. Dwell time is likely therefore to be an issue if the train encounters a passenger needing assistance, used on routes where large luggage is common or the cyclists arrive and are not ready to sprint.

A sensible choice was made on the Old Oak set this morning to place the two first class sections in the centre of the train, fingers crossed in time that becomes the working practice as that would have a positive effect on dwell time.

Agreed - although they will have to reprint the glossy leaflet that has been produced....

 
That does raise an issue though. Cycles are only meant to be carried with a reservation. Shouldn't the reservation system 'know' not to put a bike in a place where it can't be boarded or alighted at origin and/or destination? 

Same goes for seat reservations. The system needs to know not to put people in a carriage they can't directly board/alight at origin and/or destination. Any time advantage you gain from automatic doors is lost if you have dozens of passengers having to move through a train to get to a platformed door, or trying to find their carriage from the platform.

Teething problems that can be ironed out (excuse the mixed metaphors). The sort of things that crop up only when you start allowing the hoi polloi near your new train set.

I thought about this larger length of the new trains and Moreton in Marsh. There are several stations on the Cotswold line that have short platforms for the existing HST. Assuming they're going to run a 5+5 set up there, will they have to announce which section of the train passengers need to be in as well as reservations? From my calculations only one 5 car set will fit on the platforms at Moreton. So if you're in the wrong set after Kingham you're stuffed.

Are there sufficient passenger flows to justify running as 2x5 beyond Oxford/Swindon in the Worcester direction, I seem to recall when the Adelante sets operated in 2x5 car one of the two sets was simply out of service until Oxford/Swindon which in turn meant the commuters could be expected to board those in preference to the presumably well laden 5 car set?

Normally on the 19:22 there's often standing room only on the train until at least Oxford. I know by the time the train reaches Moreton there are fewer people but I wouldn't like to say whether it would fill more than a 5 car. If they want to make the front set for people going beyond Oxford only then that suits me. Won't matter until December though when the trains get up there.

I suspect the longer term plan, when timetables are recast for exclusive IET service, the intention is to run 2x 5car to Oxford with one unit going forward to Worcester/Malvern /Hereford. In the other direction, a single unit inbound, joining another at Oxford.

Load factors may mean the peak services being 1x9 or 2x5 throughout. A uniform fleet (and no more Turbos on the Cotswolds Line - remember that!) with SDO and the option to split and join will be a huge benefit.

Killing off those Turbos cannot happen soon enough.

I believe that platform extensions are planned for the Cotswold Line and that 2x5 won't run until then. But what the state of that project is, who knows. References (both from 2016): http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/24011/enhancements-delivery-plan-change-control-october-december-2016.pdf, https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Modernising-the-Great-Western-railway.pdf

Until then, there's the 1x5 and 1x9 units.

From yesterday morning / Real Time Trains - Station dwell times of first servives of the IET.  In all cases except Reading outbound, train did not leave on time so the duration is a measure of how long station duties took.

2.75 Bath Spa
2.0 Chippenham
3.0 Swindon
2.0 Didcot
2.5 Reading

5.0 Reading (awaiting time)
5.25 Didcot
3.0 Swindon
5.0 Chippenham
4.75 Bath Spa

I would expect these dwells to drop as people get used to the trains, and expect them to drop further as the fleet becomes uniform IET so that passengers don't have to go to different platform places for an IET and an HST, and know what's arriving.   Helpful HST "Coach C is here" indicators at stations haven't (yet?) been enhanced with "IET coach C is here", and I don't the old orange and purple zone for which some signage persists has been re-enlivened.

Works to be undertaken late next year I think.  Until then IET’s will mostly replace the existing Class 180 and Turbo diagrams AIUI and run as 5-car trains, with the longer distance services still in the hands of HSTs. 

No physical works have started yet, though a signal has been moved at Shrub Hill to facilitate the lengthening of one of the platforms there, and the works to introduce a turnback siding at Henwick are now nearing completion.

This morning’s 06:00 ex Bristol diverted via Hullavington due to a points problem just east of Bristol Temple Meads thus missing the calls at Bath and Chippenham.

Previous train skipped Bath and Chippenham too ... and terminated at Swindon


and (curiously)

A telling comment from GWR about their 'ownership' of this problem (and every other one on their franchise)...

From The Times this morning:

"A spokesman for Great Western Railway said: 'Hitachi will be investigating this matter thoroughly.'"

Well.....it's true on the IETs. What else would you expect? GWR aren't being allowerd anywhere near the ops side of the trains.

For those who want a ride on the new trains today (17/10).
The diagram that failed yesterday (0815 Pad -  Cardiff) was being worked by 800008 and 800009 today and was on time at Didcot.
Where these the sets that failed yesterday or where they on the other diagram?

They were the replacement setr that formed the 0600 BRI-PAD, yes - so presumably they fixed the set(s) overnight

Grahame, I would be a bit careful about the dwell times given by RTT.  To the best of my knowledge they are measured by the signalling system recording occupation and clearance of the platform train detection system section and don't truly reflect the actual stop time.  So the arrival time is when the first wheel occupies the platform section and the departure time is when either the platform section clears or the next section ahead is occupied.  Some train detection sections are longer than the platform itself and some of the ahead ones are some distance from the platform end.

'A spokesman'  ::)

What is wrong with Hopwood? Surely he must realise it would be a sensible thing for him (or to direct one of his fellow senior managers) to speak to the press and his customers finally after all of the recent problems.

I personally think it was downright foolish to make such a fanfare about the new trains, they should've just quietly introduced them into service with no fuss on quieter off peak services. Enthusiasts would still have got their fix, probably no-one else would notice. Press get to play on a one off press special. Chucking one on a busy peak service was doomed from the start really, wasn't it?!

Caution (I think) understood, and good to be stated here.  I tend to use the time differences between arrival as comparisons rather than absolute figures, so I really should have quoted times for an HST at each location too, and one that's running slightly late so that I would be looking at true operational need.

Of course, all you need is one passenger who needs longer to get on or get off with assistance and the operational times of stops get blown anyway!

Dan Panes appeared on both BBC Points West and BBC South Today last night with regards to the problems experienced on the launch service. Regards last weekend's blockade at Reading he also appeared on BBC South Today on Friday evening.

I travelled in from Reading to Paddington on one of the IETs this morning.

Very impressed with the smoothness of the ride. As did other posters I did notice some passengers hitting their heads on the luggage racks when they stood to get off.

I also notice that despite the coaches having seat reservation displays they were still using the old "card in top of seat" system. Is that because GWR haven't got the processes in place to deal with this alternative method?

Like a lot of services this morning it was delayed and there were quite a few passengers standing in my coach. I'm guessing travellers haven't yet adjusted their optimal platform position to match the IETs formation

My thoughts are that they're waiting for these trains to bed in before launching the online reservation system. Ben Rich also mentioned that they have the Voyager ability for on the day reservations and that they may go for reservations up to the point of departure from its originating station and that they would never go as far as XC and launch the 10-minute reservations that they offer, which will I'm sure be a relief to everyone.

Presumably he is the aforementioned spokesman, being head of communications, but really someone from the board ought to be piping up - the responsibility of running the company ultimately lies with the board of directors. It just seems a bit pathetic that Hitachi can wheel out their MD with an apology, but GWR cannot, however he is happy to accept all sorts of corporate back slapping at industry award ceremonies and to meet the royals and Paddington bear...  ::)

Thanks to Chris for his earlier reply to my question about seat reservations.

Another question about the IETs is - apart from the bloke up front - how many crew are needed to run the services ?There seemed to be quite a few disembarking at Paddington this morning. Is this complicated by the fact that, for example, each individual diagram (correct term?) of 5 coaches has it's own first class and buffet facilities so this means a double up?

Just to be pedantic, you either mean Trolley service, Kitchen or both because there sure as hell ain't no buffet.  ;)

It will do, yes.

I'm unsure of the usual number needed to run a 5car set - estimate being a driver, Train Manager, 1st class host & STD class trolley person - so 4. That'd then be 8 on a 10car.

Then you need to add the Pullman crew if it's one of those.

I think Ben mentioned that there would be 2 STD trolleys on a 9car, but we'll hjave to await their start in service to find out (January?)

The last time I was at Moreton there was nothing happening but that was late/end of summer and things might have changed. However I would expect to see press releases galore when the work does start given the publicity these trains are getting.

The CLPG understands that the work is scheduled for the second half of 2019 & that only 5car IETs will run along there until then. Once work is complete, they still won't be more than 6car in length & the idea will be to stop 2 x 3cars of each set alongside & use SDO as currently for 9car & 10car sets.

The current intention is to run 5car sets joining to another 5car set at Oxford but in the high peak (maybe 2 trains) a full 10car train will run as I describe above.

What buffet facilities ?

My point is that GWR singularly pointed the finger at Hitachi, with no attempt to take ownership or apologise themselves.  I would imagine that GWR managed the press attention for this event, got DfT to attend, and would have been first off the train at Paddington proclaiming how wonderful 'their' new trains were (afterall, GWR are Building a Greater West singlehandedly aren't they!?!)  IF they had run to plan.
 
Will GWR be claiming in the future that the trains are nothing to do with them, and the track is nothing to do with them?
Will I only be able to contact GWR about their catering in the future?  Or is that Nescafe/Tetley's fault, and nothing to do with them?
 
To me it just begs the question of what ARE GWR responsible for, aside from posters and adverts?

To be fair due to the loading on the service I didn't get to explore much but I was going on the basis of the "painted out windows" which on the HST stock normally implied the buffet car.

I stand corrected.

Interesting thanks for the info, I assume that this will still mean that you have to go from 1st through standard to leave the train. It's not normally a problem for me except on the odd occasion that I sleep through Kingham. I then have a bit of rush to pack up and get to an opening door at a platform before the whistle. Fortunately the Train Manager had remembered where I was getting off, had woken me up and was waiting for me to get off.  

That's alright it's just that there was a bit of angst from the unions and some passengers that there wouldn't be a buffet. What you saw (the "painted out windows") was the 1st kitchen which serves 1st, and will serve the Pullman dining experience and allegedly hot food in standard*. *I'll believe it when I see it

Staffing, timetabling & operating the trains in service.

7. The second unit doesn't require a driver!

good point! :-)

RTT applies 'offsets' to the times provided by the train describer movement data. For arrivals these offsets are based on the time taken for a train to trigger the describer movement and come to a stand, and for departures the time taken for a train to trigger the describer movement after wheels start turning. Obviously there can be variation between different stock types, but unfortunately this is one of the limitations on reporting arrival/departure times in this way. Generally however RTT won't be hugely different to the actual time assuming the train gets a clear run into and out of the platform and isn't subject to any other issues such as wheel slip, etc, etc.

RTT has offset data for most of the country where train describer movement data is available, except in locations recently re-signalled where new data has to be collected. This is something that is on-going and hopefully will be available in the future.

Nor a Train Manager from what I have seen allocated, so 6.

Assuming the host/trolley person are safety trained, which I think they will be. So yes, 6.

Be interesting to see which unit the TM travels in, in a 10car. Anyone yet noticed?

I've just met someone who did a journey heading in from the West yesterday and ended up on one of these services [though not the Monsoon Train]. I had a picture of the new train that I was sending to someone on my phone. He said he went on one of those yesterday. When asked about the experience he said (in a broad Yorkshire accent) "Well they're not Voyagers". After a bit of questioning this is apparently a good thing although.......the seats are "Rock 'ard" and no good for someone like him with a bony backside. He'd also sat in 1st before realising that it wasn't standard* and subsequently moved carriages. He was not a fan of the coffee from the trolley "Bloody instant stuff" and declined it when he saw what was offered. It was too bright in standard and the tray table was pathetically small. Other than that it hadn't been bad at all and he'd use it again.

* This might have been down to the new position of 1st rather than the minor differences between the two classes now. 

No they are not.

There is 1 driver, 1 TM, 2 hosts on a 5 car.
1 driver, 1 TM, 4 hosts on a 10 car - and supposedly 1 ticket examiner in "the other set" as a trial.

Only the driver and TM are safety trained.
The ticket examiner is supposed to be ramp trained.

This is part of the disputed working raised by the RMT.

The hosts would have to know how to use the ramps too. To enable them to get the trolleys on and off. I bet the union won't let them near a wheelchair user though.

And when did you see a trolley person get their own ramp & then get their trolley off on their own? Always a station staff member with the ramp  I've seen

I might support the Ticket examiner being safety trained too.

Ironically enough - in this week of new IETs being launched - the only high speed service to be found when I went through Paddington (to get  through to Reading) this afternoon featured a power car sporting what I think was the original HST livery

It looks like signalling problems between Hayes and Harlington are to blame. Not the first time of the last time I suspect.

I find it sad that in launch week there have been a significant number of delays to my journey both inbound and outbound.

Day 2 of the morning commute Reding to Paddington, thanks to the earlier disruption the 0703 left full and standing (some rather desperate commuters prefering to stand rather than risk the impending 0716).
As other correspondents have reported the station dwell times (GWR responsibility) the train isn't achieving the booked timings, oddly the effect of that was minimised today as the train had not called as booked in Bath and Chippenham. The train was also consequentially slightly quieter.
Seat reservations seemed to be working on this set.
Sadly nobody could find out which coach was which without entering the train, I even tried asking the first class customer host which carriage she had just exitted, of course having not been briefed to expect the question she didn't know the answer.

At speed in a quiet carriage you become noticeably aware of the wind noise, its not clear if is poor air flow design in the air conditioning or poor aerodynamics of roof mounted components. It appears to be present in both carriages D and E even with air conditioning cut out so time will tell on that one.

Customer Information System on the platforms is still not identifying the carriage order.

Further delays and crew call bells suggest all is still not quite as smooth as it should be.

In good news the seat is more comfortable and less slippery than the old first class seating.
First Class catering turned out and was better than the previous breakfast selection.

I have had 3 journeys, all in coach A (under the pantograph), and the wind noise is very noticeable when the pan is up

Received an email from GWR earlier this evening.  It had selected my nearest station (obviously based upon GPS).  On clicking the link to confirm this was my NEAREST station (which it is in a straight line), I got this:


I look forward to travelling on a 9 coach IET on the Gunnislake branch........

 ::) :P :o

I'm sure we'll see them as far as Bere Alston from time to time once they can continue to Tavistock, Okehampton and Exeter.

All the Stations on board the IET feature

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovs-I6VnTPg

Mine said 'Polsloe Bridge'! Well, at least a HST has traversed the Exmouth branch in the past, so maybe, just maybe  :) ;D

Hey, I got Greenford.....when I clicked to say it wasn't, I couldn't correct it either.

Yet to travel on one of these trains and only realized recently that the longer version (are they 9 or 10 cars? Both figures are given... ) is actually two put together. That is a little odd and seems awkward.

The 10car is 2 5cars together - there are no 10cars being constructed.

However, the 9car units were originally ordered as the electric version, subsequently converted to bi-mode construction by the DfT.

I can't remember what the IC70s in Anglia's mark 3s are like, but I seem to recall that my first impression of IC70 seats (which was on a Chiltern silver set before they had the power doors) was that they were NOT all that soft. Much more recently, I noted that the seat back on the IC70s in an East Midlands Trains IC125 was quite hard. The softest seat I've had recently was Northern's 158794 on a trip from Sheffield to Nottingham in August.

43002 currently carries a BR blue & grey colour scheme which is close to the original Intercity 125 livery (I think the shade of blue used on 43002 looked a little too green when I saw it for myself and I've read somewhere that the first two power cars had black fill on the lettering for a while so not quite the original livery but very nearly).

There will be some 9-car IEP trains in the GWR fleet in future (one train, not two together) but they aren't ready for service yet. The new trains currently entering service with GWR are the short version (5-car) which are currently being used in pairs, so you are right about two being put together to make a 10 carriage train. I agree with you that this is awkward for passengers as they will not be able to walk between carraiges 5 and 6. Also, there will be two seperate first class areas with kitchens in a 10 carriage train, which means the total number of seats is only about 3 more than the whole 9 carriage trains will have when they arrive.

I've not been on a class 800 yet (do the current diagrams apply at weekends too?) so not sure what you mean, but the suggestion by Adelante_CCT that the pantograph could create wind noise when it is up makes sense. The new units do also have poor aerodynamics around the doors (due to Hitachi not using European plug door technology on this fleet), could the wind noise be due to that?

The diagrams (7 days) for current 800s in service were in a post on the IET thread - I've printed off my copy.

I'll start an IET diagrams thread when I get home. I've got the timings for the dates when up to six 10 car formations (2 currently, 4 from 13th November, 6 from 11th December) will be running. That's takes us through to January.

January  should see the first IETs running to Oxford, Newbury and Worcester/Great Malvern. No confirmed timings yet.

I was given these dates which seem to tie in with yours for the rest of 2017:

13th November Weston-Super-Mare and Taunton see the IET.
11th December Camarthen will see the IET.
27th December Oxford, Worcester, Hereford and Great Malvern see the IET.

That's what I was told at Paddington and it will be interesting to see if they can stick to those dates.

Ben Rule thought it would be Jan 2 before IETs were seen on the Cotswold Line....

That's the information I have too. These things can and do change though. Although the number of sets put into service is down to agreement between Hitachi and GWR.

Ben Rule? The guy that's been at CrossCountry for over a year?

There don't appear to be any IET's running today (19th Oct), maybe Hitachi/GWR don't want them getting wet:-)

Probably wrong type of fog - maybe it was too thick  :D

I'm sure it is purely coincidence but on the first day the new IETs aren't running all other services out of Reading seemed to be running to schedule.

If there are general issues with the 80x services I guess it's best they sort them out now.

There are SDO issues apparently. That's all I've been able to find out.

I would say that is probably a good reason to take them out of service.

The Guardian had an update to their report of Monday's "events" on Tuesday (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/17/more-teething-problems-on-gwrs-brand-new-intercity-express-train):


I guess that could disrupt the whole train-wide communications system (and I bet it's got lots and lots of that stuff). I don't see how that could affect coupling two units, but it might explain the problems with the per-seat reservation displays and even SDO.

I assume that the coupling procedure is only regarded as complete once the computer in one unit has correctly recognised the presence of the other unit (and is therefore able to communicate with and control it). Even if the physical attachment is successful, an IT communications issue could be regarded as a coupling failure. 

According to Richard Clinnick (@Clinnick1) on twitter

I was thinking the same thing.

.

!

Further update from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/19/gwr-takes-intercity-express-trains-out-of-service-after-pr-fiasco)

Excerpts below

What an utter farce already.....they've only had.....oh....several years & loads of testing to get it right?

Fits in quite well with the rest of the GWR offering though.......although when I saw all the short forms this morning due to "more trains than usual needing repairs" I didn't realise it included those that have only been in service for a few days......😩

Doors were opened that shouldn't have been according to the inputted SDO settings.

I'm not old enough to remember the introduction of the HST in 1976 but have read about it extensively. Their introduction came 4 years after the first prototype ran. Despite that 4 years of testing they were plagued with teething troubles. Soon sorted.

The issues with the Class 800s will be fixed in short order.

It's also worth remembering the APT. Another train that had some issues on introduction to passenger service. Issues that would have been fixed were it not for an anti-rail Tory government who swallowed the press hyperbole hook, line and sinker. Thank God this time the government can't pull the plug.

3 days of passenger operation is far to short a time to describe minor faults as 'an utter farce'.

absolutely agree.  But hardly the "Japanese way" either. 

True but I did sort of enjoy seeing highly/over paid government, TOC & supplier top brass rocking up for a bit of public self congratulation but ending up in a bit of a cringe fest. Just me?

I think what is concerning is that the fact they have had the best part of a year to test these trains and basic stuff like coupling/uncoupling, door operation and so on really ought to have been ironed out by now. The whole idea of test running and mileage building is to sort these things out. Most of the components will almost certainly have been used in other trains, so I'm afraid the excuse of 'we weren't expecting that' doesn't really wash.

Most out of character of a Japanese company! But maybe that's the FGW* effect...!

As I mentioned previously, I think FGW*/Hitachi dropped a ball by introducing these trains into passenger service at peak time and with such an attempt at fanfare - an unannounced introduction on quieter diagrams would probably have worked better with the provision of a fanfare invite only service to launch it properly for the politicians and media types, if they really must have that.

* deliberate use of FGW, GWR isn't really a fitting name - Brunel is probably giggling in his grave at the on-going ineptitude!

I am and remember the introduction of the HST well. Recall waiting at Bristol Parkway one hot day for a delayed HST which rolled in with water pouring out from the louvres of the front power car with the engine shut down. Subsequent run on one engine only got us to Padd but with even more delay. Then there was the fault some time later with the power cars fitted with GEC (I think?) traction motors which caused some of the fleet to be withdrawn. What is now a reliable workhorse did indeed have a chequered start.

So I'm not surprised that there were teething problems with the 800s. Agree that with the Japanese reputation on the line these will soon be sorted out.

I took my first two rides on the 800 on Tuesday from Didcot to Padd and back later to Reading. First impressions were that it was an excellent train and a worthy successor to the HST. Looking forward to more being rolled out.

Exactly - these are basic, easily tested functions............as are aircon systems which in most environments are tested thoroughly enough to prevent those seated underneath them receiving impromptu showers.........other examples of railway failures 40+ years ago aren't really relevant and don't serve to mitigate these at all, other than to illustrate the way in which in public or private ownership the railways always seem to manage to make a spectacular mess of these things, in the full incandescent glow of publicity.

Well said BNM.  We should also remember that the first press run from Reading to Paddington and the naming run by the Queen from Slough to Paddington, went without a hitch.  Had the aircon leak not occurred there would have been no cause to describe it as a farce and a PR fiasco, but it did occur so I'm not surprised some have taken that easy route.  However, had the Queen had an impromptu shower then that really would have been a disaster worth the press going crazy over!

I too remember issues with introducing new trains in our area far more recently than 40+ years - Turbo doors were a nightmare to start with, and the less said about the 180s the better!  The 387s have settled in quickly, but that's no surprise given they are simply a version of an existing train type and we shouldn't forget how complex these new IETs are with bi-mode operation at high speed.

What I find far more interesting than a leaky roof is the fact that after some quite hefty dwell times at the start of the week the IET does indeed seem able to cope with the existing HST schedules.  That is the important thing in the long run.  One look at the 15:29 SWA-PAD yesterday, sees arrival times at Neath and Port Talbot of half a minute early, and Bridgend and Cardiff one and a half minutes early, and despite leaving Swindon a minute late it arrived at Reading half a minute early.  Given the operation of the train is only going to improve when staff and passengers become more familiar with them (and it isn't leaf fall season), I am pleased to see those timings being recorded so soon.

It would also these days be much harder if not impossible to hide an attempt at a low-key yet public operation of a new train as movement information etc is freely available.

Another example of what proved in the end to be a good train but suffered numerous early niggles is the 442. At least for its initial purpose.

Some succeed, the rest make excuses ☺

With anything there are normally teething troubles even if you've done extensive testing and trials. The companies obviously wanted to start the new era with a bang and a bit of pomp and circumstance. That with 20:20 hindsight was a mistake but you can't predict the future easily. A soft launch would have been better with a press, dignitaries etc. run later in the day.

Yes I'll admit to finding it funny that there were problems given the Japanese reputation for reliability and the GWR desire to show off. However I'm sure:
They'll bed in over time,
More electricity will be used as quickly as they can hang it/certify it,
The seats will get softer with use,
The complimentary offering in 1st is improved,
Etc.

So long as journey times stay the same with more seats available then you've filled the main government requirement for these trains.

I think i'd be more understanding if the rest of the service wasn't so poor.

Indeed, but had they not bothered with loading up with press and making a fanfare of it on what is probably one of the busier long distance services, it probably would've slipped completely under the radar. 22:45 PAD-SWA might've been a sensible candidate, or perhaps some of the daytime offpeak services. They really were asking for it to go wrong by launching in the manner that they chose.

Not clear of course how much it was really GWRs decision to make. But the early morning start had strange whiffs of the APT launch.

I'm sure the press would still have made considerable comment as to the near half hour delay in departure at outset and the further delay around Maidenhead resulting in a 41 minute late arrival.  The in built shower facility was purely the icing on the cake in terms of a visual aspect to the problems, and one which therefore got all the publicity.

Remember that on its very first outing the first train arrived at Temple Meads nearly an hour late, and presumably left a lot of dignitaries and press cooling their heels on the platform at 5.30 in the morning instead of getting on board early and being schmoozed by GWR and Hitachi. Do you blame the press for focussing on the negatives?

Its called the 'Bathtub Effect'.  New things will fail frequently in the first few weeks/months, then go on for years with minor problems and then begin to fail again more frequently (but less frequently than when new) towards the end of useful life....

However, I am puzzled why no testing was done with full passenger loads before actual public service started.  I'm sure that would of sorted out the snagging issues out of the glare of full publicity.  I raised this issue on another forum frequented by some of the engineers closely involved in the fleet introduction process.  The response was that only an 'emergency evacuation test' had been carried out with a full train (in a depot) and nothing else  ::)

I seem to recall illustrating that ... http://www.wellho.net/pix/bathtubeffect.jpg

Such high ambitions for forty years of technological progress.

If journey times were to stay the same then services would still be slower than 40 years ago. The improvement in journey times expected just about takes us back to the times of the late 1970s.  (e.g. 1 hr 5 mins to Bristol Parkway).

Journey times of the 1970s were on a quieter railway with fewer passengers calls and fewer services.

Well for the Cotswold line there's no promise of decreased journey times after they're introduced apparently.

There were a couple of late evening IET runs out from Stoke Gifford depot to Swindon and back yesterday. Via Box and Hullavington. With (non-passrnger) station stops at Bath, Chippenham, Bristol Parkway and Bristol TM.

I think it'd be a safe bet to assume that the SDO was being tested.

A consequence of the lack of Class 800 diagrams yesterday was that GWR had to press into service a 2+6 HST set as (indirect) cover, and had to cancel the 0529 Bristol TM - Paddington beyond Swindon to keep this short set away from heavily loaded services as far as practicable. It ran to Cheltenham then formed the 0831 to Paddington, the 1122 to Great Malvern, the 1425 back to Paddington, the 1722 to Hereford then 2151 back to Paddington. 

Another two Class 43 power cars and a handful of Mk3s are scheduled to go off to Scotland today. GWR are probably hoping Hitachi can supply the 800s they are contracted to.

Judging by the empty stock moves from Stoke Gifford and North Pole shown on RTT it seems the IETs are back in passenger service this morning.

Yes it is, mate is on 1A03 which is a 10 car 800. Currently running 14 mins late at Southall but that's not due to the train, there's a couple of late-running turbos in front of it. Was pretty much right time until after Reading.

The GWR launch prospectus doing the rounds a while back did suggest improved journey times on the Cotswold Line. I suspect most of this will be a small acceleration between London and Oxford, and then the savings from powered doors at station calls between Oxford and Worcester/Hereford, rather than the performance of the trains themselves on the Cotswold Line.

Indeed.  I don’t have a late 70s timetable, but my 83/84 edition has one down train per day doing PAD-BPW in 1h08m, and one in 1h09m and everything else typically taking 1h 12m.  The up direction was curiously slower though with 1h 20m being the quickest.  Long gaps, too.  If you missed the 10:58 the next one wasn’t until 12:30.

Indeed, but the other main lines (ECML, GWML, MML) have seen the maintenance or introduction of a sensible distribution of fast and semi-fast services, that have enabled point to point journey time improvements over those periods in the longer distance flows.

And yes, there were fewer services but the early HST timetables saw 3 trains every two hours to Cardiff, whereas the service for the last 20 years has only increased to 4, (and still only 1 per hour to Swansea). Hardly a step change, particularly in the context of longer journey times.

And point to point journey times have risen too.  eg. The typical departure off Reading was 22 mins after leaving Paddington.

Yes I know there are good reasons why, many of which haven't been listed (e.g. original sets were 2+7, impact of HEx, slower line speeds out of Paddington post Ladbroke Grove to name but three) but it is hardly progress.

Grahame, its actually along the length of the bath (steeper at one end than the other) ;)

More frequent services mean journey times are shorter even if trains are no quicker. Though lesser ticket interavailability spoils the effect.

I am, and you are about right with your analysis. Not every HST suffered problems, by any means, but good news stories seldom sell papers.


Agreed! It sounds like a combination of minor problems with software, snagging of the build, and experience with real passengers, not helped by running the new trains on an old network that isn't used to them.


I passed the APT at Crewe twice on each visit to Mum, who departed this earth last Sunday, so I don't know when I will see it again. I'm not as sure that the problems could have been dealt with so easily given the state of the art at the time. The Pendelinos have the advantage of much better control of the tilt than could ever have been dreamed of in APT days, and the rebuild of the WCML. So far as electrification goes, I believe it is GWR cancelled by Labour once, by Conservatives twice (once partly), and although the wiring into Bristol has been put on hold (I don't believe that either), I don't think the current administration can be described as anti-rail, not with Crossrail and HS2. That may be driven by care for the environment, a desire to make money from share issues in TOCs and more profitably leasing companies, a wish to get people around London as quickly as possible, a desire to inflate house prices in Reading, or panic at the thought of how many Chinese tourists will be heading for a post-Brexit Britain and the realisation that National Express or Megabus may prove more useful as Air B'n'B options than as effective transport solutions.


Agreed. I have just returned from a cruise in the sunshine, during which I was offered the chance of a cruise from Southampton to New York on the 2019 maiden voyage of the company's as yet unbuilt super cruise liner. As they don't currently operate that route, I smelled a rat (as may the passengers on that voyage). How many maiden voyages of luxury liners, including the Queen Mary and the QE2, were reported with glee by the red-tops as having carpenters, plumbers, carpet fitters etc still beavering away, sewage backing up the "heads" or pouring out of the showers and into the poolside hot-tubs because of hastily installed pipework, while guests paying six-figure sums queued for space at ship's rails to discharge their badly cooked dinner while cruisers from other countries formed pyramids, frightened the children, put towels on all the sunbeds, drank all the gin...

I might still go, since the actual problems won't be so bad unless it sinks, and I will probably get my money back and a free cruise on the mended ship.

Give it a month, and the IETs will be working fine.

And BNM, your coverage of Finn's maiden IET ride (and your experience as his guest) has been commendably positive. Positions were entrenched long ago, but it has been good to read your praise of certain aspects, even if the first week has proved something of a curate's egg.


Hardly hara-kiri, is it?

Seems to have gone a little quiet on this thread.  A sure sign that the new trains are settling in quite nicely.

I managed to have my first trip yesterday - I took 1B40, the 13:45 PAD-SWA as far as Cardiff Central, and returned on the other sets working 1L76, 15:29 SWA-PAD which I stayed on until Reading.  Here are my thoughts:

Performance and timekeeping
Both trips were largely punctual, except for a 10 minute delay after leaving Bristol Parkway on the down service.  We were held waiting a late running Pompey to Cardiff service to go ahead.  We left Paddington on electric power just under two minutes late and with my trusty GPS app I was able to note that we reached 100mph just before Acton so had to be held back as the 125mph limit starts just after there.  No diesel train would ever reach 100mph before the 125mph board.  After that we accelerated to 125mph by just past Hanwell - at which point you'd expect to be doing around 115mph in a 180 or 110mph in a HST.  We then effortlessly rolled along at around 125mph until the changeover point at Maidenhead.  As others have reported, you can hardly tell you've switched power source.  We dropped about 5mph immediately and that steadily reduced from then onwards to around 105mph when we started braking for Reading.  Arrival at Reading was on time in a shade over 23 minutes.

With next stop Swindon I was eager to see what speed we'd reach on diesel power.  Initially the acceleration was quite quick, but I was slightly disappointed with the rate of acceleration from 60mph onwards.  We had an unchecked run into Swindon, enroute the speedo briefly touched 108mph but the average over many minutes of recordings was a steady 104mph.  Nevertheless we arrived Swindon over a minute early.  A similar run from Swindon to Bristol Parkway saw an on time arrival and the same 104mph average.  After that we got delayed and followed another service so performance wasn't really worth monitoring.

Coming back the other way saw us leave Cardiff a minute late and we had made that up by Bristol Parkway and ran early into Swindon, before arriving Reading 2.5 minutes early - despite a check for another train at Didcot which slowed us to around 50mph for a brief period.  Performance on the return was much better.  We averaged over 120mph in diesel mode for several minutes on the gently falling gradients between Chipping Sodbury and Wootton Bassett and also until we were checked at Didcot Parkway.  On two occasions the reading was 125mph, but whether we actually reached that or not is open to debate given the possibility of an inaccurate reading from the GPS.  I'm very confident that we were doing those 120+mph averages though as it was recorded over several minutes.

Why the difference in maximum speeds on each trip?  Well, there could be a combination of four reasons at play.  1) The engines on the down service were running in 'muzzled' configuration, 2) Engine output wasn't optimal for some reason (one isolated maybe?), 3) Generally the gradients favour the up direction, or 4) Given we were running to time, the driver was driving to the timetable rather than maximum speed on the down service.

Dwell times were pretty much bang on two minutes at all stations, except Swindon on the way back where we were waiting time.  Certainly it appears there are no problems keeping to HST schedules as long as the signals stay green!



The travelling 'experience'
Unsurprisingly given the time of day I had no problems getting a seat in either direction.  Here are my opinions of the interiors, with a four grade marking system from ;D 'Great', to :) 'Good' to :-\ 'Undecided' to >:( 'Poor'.

 :)  Seats were surprisingly comfortable, given comments on their hardness by others.
 ;D  Leg room was ample.  I sat in both priority seats and normal seats and can report back that the rumours and worries of poor legroom simply aren't true with much more space than on the existing GWR HST interiors.
 ;D  A couple of nice little touches include the inner arm-rest by the windows being able to be moved into the upright position so you can lean against the window without it digging into your ribs.  Also there's a nice window ledge which is wide enough to rest your elbow and arm on.  Indeed it was wide enough that my phone could rest on it.
 :)  A nice ambience inside, a little bland maybe, but not the claustrophobic feel you get in a Pendolino or Voyager, and lower seat backs than on the HST's help.  Lighting less harsh, but still nice and bright.  Large windows, the majority of which have seats aligned well with them.
 :)  Ride quality was good, considering the state the track is in at the moment!
 :-\  Luggage space looks a little limited to me.  Perhaps the trains for Cornwall will have a little more, but I worry about there being enough room for large cases.  The overhead racks are excellent however, nice and deep and very tall so anything but the largest soft bag will fit in them.  Additional space between the seat backs is available as well of course.
 ;D  The three state reservation system was working on the way there, but not on the way back, but the green, yellow and red lights are easy to see throughout the length of the carriage, and the text display above each seat is clear and bright.  End of carriage displays are also clear and large.  Staff mentioned they will be sticking to paper labels as a back up until the new year.
 >:(  Too many automatic announcements as usual.  About five listing all the stations before we left Paddington, more at every station call and the TM was also making occasional manual announcements as well.  When is the message going to get through that people don't want to be bombarded with announcements the whole time!  It wasn't so bad given the number of station calls we made, but anything more intensive, such as the Cotswold Line, will have people reaching for cotton wool.  Hopefully it will be reconfigured.  On the plus side the automated system worked perfectly in both directions.
 :-\  Internal doors are floor pressure pad operated which surprised me a little.  They are quick to open (you hardly have to break your stride) and very, very quiet.  On the outward trip I was sat in the composite carriage and I literally could not hear them opening right behind me.  Having a pressure pad still means that they will be opening and closing constantly when a vestibule wanderer is on their phone, though the levels of noise in the vestibule means they won't be shouting so loudly and the doors themselves being quiet is a great improvement on the HST internal doors.  There was an annoying rattle on the composite compartment door when travelling at speed though.
 :-\  A trolley was provided both ways, though didn't come through until we were approaching Bristol Parkway on the way to Cardiff which is too long.  Seemed well stocked for a trolley and a total of five runs past me took place over both trips.
 >:(  Door release sounds are far too loud and prolonged.  A distinct noise when closing is a necessary evil, but every generation of train seems to make the door release noise more unnecessarily annoying.
 :)  Temperature seemed consistent and 'about right' throughout the train, except for one end of one carriage which was quite cool.
 ;D  Engine noise is very well dampened.  There's only three engines per five car train (and will be five per nine car train) anyway, but the location of the engines is towards one end of the carriage rather than in the centre.  On the outward trip I sat about two thirds of the way towards the other end of the carriage to where the engine is and you can barely hear it.  I purposely sat right above an engine on the way home and whilst you can hear it, it's far from obtrusive and very minimal vibrations can be felt.  I must admit I don't mind the low drone of an engine as it drowns out the annoying drone of other passengers, but for those that like a quiet ride you will more than likely not even know there's an engine in your carriage.
 :-\  One problem with two 5-car units attached is that if the first class portions are both positioned together at the coupled ends, that means there is a gap of three carriages (nearly 70 metres) between standard class accommodation right in the middle of the platform where most people are likely to be waiting.  That is where your potential dwell delays at stations might occur, especially as the two crew doors for the kitchen are not as obviously 'not for public use' as they might be.  Although operationally convenient in some regards (first class all in the middle), I feel that it will be best to try to marshall them so first class is at each end of the train.
 :-\  Didn't have chance to check out the cycle facilities and toilets.

Overall, I was pleasantly surprised.  I am looking forward to hearing the views of others, but for me a potentially worthy HST replacement.

For those stat fans amongst us, I've attached a chart with the data I recorded.  First chart has the running times and station dwell times.  The second chart has the average speeds recorded over 2 minute intervals for the 'down' journey, and the third chart has the same average speeds for the 'up' journey but broken down into one minute intervals.

I had my first journey on one today ... although DID-RDG is hardly much of an experience really. I wasn't the only one I could see that chose not to get on a late HST in order to travel on it a few minutes later.

I was a bit underwhelmed if I'm honest, although I would echo the initial acceleration and the relative quietness of the diesel. It had left Swindon 4 minutes late as a result of the aforementioned HST but was only 1 down leaving Didcot.

I am usually a fan of hard-ish seats but found this one a bit extreme and inferior in comfort to the GWR HST but the leg room was fine. I question the use of light grey fabric; the seat cushion next to me was already noticeably stained, hopefully only by a spilled drink and not some other fluid. The seat table in front of me had grubby finger-marks all over it. All this unfortunately distracted from the 'new' feel somewhat.

No sign of any trolley over this short journey. The reservation system appeared to be switched off, but I couldn't see any paper labels in the carriage either.

To be more positive, this does seems a better package all round than others introduced over the last 10-15 years and has learnt from them. Certainly a great contrast to the return, done on a 2 carriage 165 - on a service that 12 months ago warranted a 180.

Through reading various sources I'm led to believe that the Class 800 engines are always unmuzzled (or unfettered  :P) in passenger service. What hasn't changed from the original DfT mandated spec is the acceleration curve. This is limited by engine management software to 0.7m/s². Increasing this is possible, but then the component maintenance cycles would need changing. This would be another contract variation to be hammered out between the DfT and Hitachi. They've done one with the engine uprating and have seemingly determined that's all that's needed until the leccyfication catches up. Of course, overall, the traction components (excepting the diesel engines) are designed to run at up to 140mph.

That acceleration was based on not needing to get beyond 110mph on diesel, as all areas of up to 125mph operation were supposed to be electrified prior to introduction.

Distributed traction, a generally lighter consist, and the engine uprating mean the acceleration on diesel is initially better from a stand than the HST, but, after hitting the 0.7m/s² limit, the HST edges ahead again on acceleration.

Of course once the wires reach Chippenham/Bristol/Cardiff the Class 800s will leave the HSTs trailing in their wake. That's when we should see the timetable recast and the promised modest journey time improvements.

It'll also be interesting to see whether the Class 802s have the same acceleration curve. As these have been ordered in the traditional way -  by an operator and funded by a RoSCo -  they could potentially be even more 'unmuzzled' by not having a DfT mandated acceleration limit.

Finally, it's worth remembering that 'speed' was not a primary reason for ordering these trains. An ageing fleet had to be replaced, and an increase in capacity was needed.

That doesn't sound right to me.

The acceleration limit in the IEP final spec. isn't just a fixed limit (of 0.75 m/s²), but above 45 km/hr it's a power limit. So if the limit implemented is 0.7 m/s² (to be below the required maximum) that applies from starting up to the threshold (or "knee") velocity, then does not above.

Lifting that fixed limit would mean a threshold at a lower velocity, so it would only have a limited effect. It would also call for greater adhesion; 0.7 m/s² already implies about 12%.

That high-speed curve on the graph is above the line for a muzzled diesel, or even one on full power, but just below that for the full motor rated power. It's probably about right or electric mode once you allow for mechanical losses. And this limit does apply in all modes.

The words above that curve talk about "compatible with the infrastructure", and come under section 3.23 Signalling Compatibility. Now, what's that about? A clever signalling system night measure the train's speed and need to assume it won't change too quickly. However, as far as I know we don't have one that clever.  But I can't believe signalling imposes any limit versus speed with quite that shape.

If it is a signalling constraint, it looks unlikely it will be any different for other variants, or indeed  for other trains. While that acceleration limit isn't mentioned in connection with track wear, I can imagine it might affect that. If so raising it should, by rights, lead to an increase in track access charges (but probably only a small one).

Higher traction or torque might have wear implications for the train too, mostly in electric mode. You'd need to be a designer to know, but I can imagine that the motors, gears, and wheelsets would all take more of a hammering. To some extent that depends how the train applies WSP - that's not mentioned in the spec. nor in Hitachi's suppliers list; presumably it's "only software" (plus a wheel-speed sensor).

Thanks for the review Industry Insider.  Very thorough and my experience of the ride quality in interior (on a short BTH-BRI hope) agrees with what you found. 

I thought that the internal ambiance was good.  Engine sound hardly noticeable and compared to something like the dreadful Voyagers, the train is streets ahead.  Many of the "issues" of other new trains have been addressed with these trains, so leg room is pretty good, table provision pretty good, electronic reservations have been done better, overhead luggage racks are good (glass bottom allows you to see if they are empty and capacity is decent), and window/seat alignment is not bad at all.   My only quibble  would be that I dislike window blinds especially those which cover more than one seat because others may put them down and block your view.  Train didn't blow my socks off but it did give me a very good overall first impression. 

Only one improvement I would suggest when more are running and when we have a mixture of 9 cars and 5 and 5+5 cars is that GWR upgrade the platform indicators and/or station announcements so that people know which part of the platform their coach will arrive at. 

I have already experienced the window blind stand-off. Difficult to see how it could be done any other way though.

Perhaps they could invest some of the revenue from my exorbitant ticket price and install electronic-dimming windows like those on the 787 Dreamliner  ;)

Maybe there could be a notice to the effect that if there is any disagreement it stays up :)

One thing I missed out in my mini-review above was that whilst I was waiting for the door release getting on, I saw a couple walking briskly up the platform looking puzzled, with one of them saying 'these can't be the standard class'. I guess this means they were impressed.

While I've had no call to go on one yet, I did go and watch a couple come through Reading on Monday. Both (to and from SWA) were late, and dwelled too long. The first was replatformed from 9 to 12 just at its due time, with the preceding train in P9, which you wouldn't have thought was worth the trouble. I can only assume there was a known issue with that previous train that could have taken longer to sort. As it was the IET still went out second, but not by a lot, so maybe saved a minute or two. It took three goes to dispatch it because each time staff came running up to say there were still passengers coming across by lift.

The second had its external displays blank, so no-one knew which carriage was which, so that took extra time. There were no announcements for that, either, so it was down to the train and platform staff to direct people.

Both times there was a Voyager sitting at a nearby platform, and its idle noise was way louder than IET on idle, even right up close. On power, the IET engines were louder though, but still a lot less harsh.

From the end of the platform, it is very noticeable how much quicker this was than an HST by the time its back end left. Indeed,  The driver had power off by then, presumably having reached the maximum speed (30 mph, I think). The driver's view out does look very limited, despite that big front window. The side windows are more like quarter-lights, and the driving desk is very high, above half-way up that front window. Have they been complaining?

I'd prefer no blinds at all.  The HST doesn't have them. 

I suspect this has to do with providing crash protection lower down for the driver.

Most of the comments have been very favourable regarding the cab layout.  Thorough ergonomic tests were carried out with union feedback using two of GWR’s shortest and tallest drivers (over 2 feet difference in height!) to ensure everyone was catered for.

I was really talking about visibility. While seeing the track ahead only needs a small window, there must be times you want a broader view.

They should have really done curtains for 1st blind for standard but I guess curtains wouldn't fit with the clean lines of these new trains. The last time I travelled on a Voyager (which was some years ago now) the blind for my table of four was bust. It was all the way up and not wanting to budge which was annoying. Not quite as annoying as the little old lady sitting across the table from me who accused me of sabotaging it. This despite my repeated attempts to get it 'deployed' because I wanted it down. She moved seats the first time she had the chance.

I remember being told that the Eurostar cab only had a very limited view for good reason. Otherwise when going through the tunnel at high speed the drivers could become hypnotised or an reach equivalent state. Not sure the same applies here though, but I'd want a broader view if it was me driving.

The same point has been made about all these new OLE uprights - indeed there's a thread about that. But you can always use a moveable screen if that's a problem, while you can't unscreen a non-existent window.

I've never felt the need for a blind on a train window. It's an extra item to cause niggling faults and disagreements between passengers. Dare say it'll come in useful at some times though.

They have got a lot more important recently, due to the overwhelming importance to most people of being able to read the little screen they are peering intently at ... much more important that seeing out of the window.

Re: this issue of low-speed acceleration:


To show the effect of raising the acceleration at low speeds, where it is not set by the overall power, I've got out an old model train* to play with. I looked at both diesel and electric power, and with an acceleration limit of 0.7 m/s² or 1.0 m/s² (which is not obtainable), and let the train run from a stand and accelerate continuously on the level. The speed reached and time taken are noted at two distances: 250 m (about the length of a 5-car IET) and 8 km (5 miles). The change in these, with very high vs standard acceleration, is also shown.

electric	time s	change	speed km/hr	change
at 250 m	26.9	-3.5	65.1	+3.2
as 8 km	213	-4.7	198	+0.2
diesel
at 250 m	27.9	-2.5	57.5	+0.9
as 8 km	249	-2.9	166	+0.06

A number of points can be noted:

• The absolute numbers can't be trusted; they are based on a number of guessed parameters. But the differences won't be far out.
• By 250 m, the speed is already high enough for the power-limited acceleration to be below the fixed limit.
• The change in time to 250 m is small.
• The change in time from 250m m to 8 km is even smaller.
• The change in speed at 250 m is also small.
• the change in speed at 8 km is much less, almost negligible.
• The difference in performance with full electric power is quite noticeable even by 250 m, but far more so at 8 km.

* No, not the kind the guys on RMweb make. On second thoughts, I bet someone on there has got a much better dynamic model than mine!

When I travelled last week on an IET almost all the blinds on the downside in my coach were lowered half way... so I sat on the upside.   ;D

Of course, silly me!

Downside, upside... Is this a new TV drama about life on an Edwardian country railway?  :D

Watched an IET pulling into PAD at about 1300 today, pantographs definitely down on both 5 car sets.

Which platforms? AIUI platforms 1 and 2 will be energised during the Christmas blockade.

I'm guessing 1L51, which appears to have used Platform 10

Yep, that was it.

Eh? I thought all platforms at Paddington were electrified when Heathrow Express started many years ago.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can explain further, however I'm sure I have read elsewhere a class 387 has used P1 / P2 in the past

1, 2, (11?), 12, 13 and 14 were not electrified as part of the original HEx scheme.  12 was done a few years ago, 13 now doesn’t exist and 14 was energised early this year.  1/2 are scheduled for Christmas - 1 has wired installed, but 2 has still got wires to be added.  The footbridge above 1/2 had to be altered so it was a bigger job than you might imagine.

From The Daily Swansea (https://thedailyswansea.co.uk/2017/10/27/swansea-great-western-railway-to-ban-the-welsh-from-nice-new-trains/):


 ;D

1L51 10.55 Cardiff - Paddington reported on Facebook as being a 5 coach train (instead of 10).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29277/2017/11/07/advanced

Also cancelled between Cardiff and Newport:

And the same for the 13:45 PAD-SWA, and also the 17:29 back - Journeycheck says:

At least it wasn't an HST that needed repair - that would have resulted in 0 carriages

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/short_iet.jpg)

Arrived late into Swansea (17:07) ... Fishguard Harbour train held to make the connection. Return at 17:29 "delayed" ... I happen to be travelling home from Swansea, hope the connection at Swindon onto the last TransWilts doesn't fail.

Good luck Graham - looking good connection wise.  I’ll be interested to hear your views on the new trains.

Connection nicely made ... which is more than can be said for the 19:00 Paddington which is supposed to connect into the train I'm now on - 20:06 from Swindon.   The London train's a few minutes behind us, and I expect station staff at Chippenham will have to provide taxis.

New train - bit of a review last week;  they're much better than voyagers and the look more modern that HSTs.   Nice to see the deeper luggage racks.   Lady opposite went off to find the buffet ... came back grumbling that she had to wait for the trolley to come round.   Liked the hard seats ... but then was finding them too hard by the time we got to England.

Noting some of the light grey seats are already showing marks, and remark made by a fellow passenger about how they're going to keep the glass in the luggage racks clean.

I suspect we had all the in-train staff for a 10 car ... plus two Hitachi engineers ... never seen so many GWR staff on a regular service.

Was I on the first 5 car IET public service from Wales to England?   Think all prior ones have been 10?

Writing this from a 153 ... feels so much like home, sinking into the soft seats ...

I won’t be surprised if those seat covers get changed sooner rather than later for something a little darker.  Thought lessons would have been learnt from the Turbo and HST set that were fitted with light grey!

Any sign of Mark Hopwood among them?  :P



Sorry - did I really say that out loud??  :o ::)

.....................already needing repairs???????  ::)

If a HST power car fails the whole set of 8 coaches can often continue in service with the one power car working. The power car can then be repaired or replaced later at the depot. But if a 5 car IET set fails I wonder if it can continue in service? If not then we get yesterday's scenario with 5 coaches instead of 10. Can a 5 car IET on a 2 x 5 set be easily swapped in the same way as a HST power car?

Much easier - as long as you have a new one handy, of course. There's lots of complicated requirements, but the key one is:

So it's a push-button operation in the cab, but that's already true of most D/EMUs. What the requirement didn't mention is how many people have to stand on the platform and watch  - it always seems to need at least one.

The other snag is if it is a terminal platform, ie Swansea or London Paddington and the "good" IET is blocked in at the buffer stop end by the faulty one.

Yeah whats going on with our brand new trains going wrong?

They started 'going wrong' on 16 October ...  ::)

I just wondered since the dreadful first day in service, how have the new IET's performed in regular service?

And further to that question how likely is it that the full (now published) timetable will be able to be introduced from 2nd January?

I ask because my annual season ticket expires on 31st December and I’m considering dropping my First Eastbound Only privileges on the promise of all this magical new seating and a doubling of morning services from Maidenhead. That requires the new trains to be operational...

Hmm.  ::)

You're probably both not going to like this, but things apparently have not improved.  :o

We have another ongoing discussion on the Coffee Shop forum, culminating presently with my own slightly caustic comment at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18792.msg224891#msg224891

I'll now look at how best to expand that other topic from a specific calendar diary entry and place it out on the wider forum.

I have now disconnected this topic's link to a specific date in the Coffee Shop forum diary (as that was purely historic) and moved / merged the ongoing discussion here.

Hope this helps!  ;)

CfN.  :)

The train's themselves seem to be doing pretty well.  One diagram was a 5-car one day, but otherwise all have been 10 to the best of my knowledge.  Timings have been kept reasonably well when you consider it's leaf fall season and staff and passengers are getting used to them.  A promising start in my opinion.


There's three reasons why it won't happen.  Lack of trains, lack of trained drivers, or infrastructure not ready.

There's no shortage of 387s (they're parked up everywhere), the number of drivers trained is currently level with where GWR wanted to be at this time with courses ongoing - hopefully what they think they need will actually be enough in practice.  Infrastructure I'm not so sure about but with all the additional possessions it will be frustrating if not.  So, overall, looking promising I'd say.

There are posters at Welsh stations showing a standard format of 2x5car IETs.

1st class is at the London end of each set, so very end of Eastern end and in the middle.

So no 2.5 coach areas with no STD seating exists

Is that guaranteed, or just "in the normal run of events".   Very much aware that first class is at the London ends of HSTs ... except when it isn't.

One assumes that this formation is what's in the contract with Hitachi? So would need GWRs agreement to turn them out otherwise

You think so? Do they have some machinery we've not heard about in their depots for turning units round if they come in the wrong way round?

Probably have a bigger version of this

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/longone.jpg)

I’ve definitely seen one with a 1st both in the middle configuration in passenger service.  As long as that is only going to happen on very rare occasions then that’s ok.

If it were oikely to be a regular occurance, would they bother putting out posters saying the opposite?

You're assuming all he relevant people and parts of GWR understand the importance of unit orientation in a 5+5 train, and that they understand the same as each other. I suspect a lot of that has been worked out after they started running, and they still have a way to go.

Putting both bits of first in the middle would have the merit that any unplanned or unexpected reversals would still leave first class at the middle.
If first class was at the London end of each unit, then any diversion that required reversing would result in it being at the country end.

The same argument would of course apply to putting first class at the outer ends, either policy would in my view be acceptable provided that it was applied consistently.

Where is First Class going to be in the 9 car units and will people know at intermediate stations whether a 9 or a 5+5 is expected; one expects the 9s on workings that don't divide, and 5+5s on ones that have onward portions to Pembroke, Newquay or Weymouth (will classes 800 and 802 come in long and short swing link flavours?)

Weymouth Graham? Do you know something we don’t?

No, just being slightly naughty in my ask - HSTs have ended up at some pretty unexpected places (Exmouth and Falmouth come to mind) and perhaps 80x could at some time. 

Never say never as they say. As long as they get clearance no reason why an IET couldn’t make it down to Weymouth in the future.

Seats look a different colour on the later units being currently delivered.

One made it almost to Minehead when they wanted to do an evacuation test many years ago.

Would also have the advantage that the 1st carriages would be more likely to be on the platform when stopping at short platformed stations.

An HST has made it all the way to Minehead, some years ago an HST was used in passenger service on the WSR, during the diesel gala. I was on it !
AFAIK HSTs are now out of gauge on the WSR but this was not the case a few years ago.
I rather doubt that we will see a 80x at Minehead in the foreseeable future since I suspect that they are badly out of gauge and that a great deal of work would be needed.

The last HST to Minehead was on 23rd Sept 2017 - the Cotswold Line Promotion Group's Cotswold Quantock Explorer.

Edit: I should just add that the special train was operated by GWR who had kindly replaced a standard class coach with an additional 1st class coach at CLPG's request.
Previous gauging issues on the WSR preventing a HST reaching Minehead in May had been resolved to enable the visit of Flying Scotsman in the summer.
Will we see another in-service HST at Minehead?

ATP style.... if I remember...

Did you mean APT - Advanced Passenger Train?

Units 800010, 11, 12 and 13 have seen some passenger carrying action on the two additional diagrams that operate from today.

800005 appears to be running on its own as a 5-car though as 800006 has no allocations, the 19:00 to Bristol will be cosy if that's the case.  I saw 800008 and 800009 marshalled in a formation where 1st Class was at the very front and very rear.  That would be the best option in my opinion, although I can see why they've gone for the planned formation they have - getting two units the opposite way round regularly would be a recipe for disaster.  Let's hope they can manage to form them correctly at least 95% of the time otherwise producing posters will be a waste of time and punters won't know where they stand (literally!).  I would expect things to settle down when more units are in operation.

No, ATP - Anus Transit Pectusculum (Latin: roughly translates to arse over tit).

In good news the Customer Information System seems to have had an update such that it reports the position of First Class in both 5 car sets (Front and Middle or Front and Rear were in use today). The posters could therefore be retired although more specific details about position where Front, Middle and Rear on platforms along the route might still be beneficial.
Also is something not working with the cariage side displays, I've noticed a few which appear blank in service ... perhaps they only activate at low or zero speed?

006 was sent from the depot to attach to 005 for the 19:00 to Bristol, so a 10-car as booked.  Left 6 minutes late though.

I take it that Grahame was out last evening (and maybe also this) to witness the first IET in passenger service to grace the line through Melksham as the 1A37 (2127 Taunton to London Paddington) (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C29080/2017/11/14/advanced) is currently reversing at Chippenham and then heading down to the Berks and Hants for its onwards journey to Paddington.

Nope, he wasn't / isn't but thanks for the note. Catching the 06:38 again in the morning so need my beauty sleep; rail meeting season is in full swing.

Oops

I was out train spotting earlier today........ ::) :P

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/802XXX%20at%20Saltash%2016_11_2017_1.jpg?cache=0.5897023466514313)
Image (c)2017 SandTEngineer

802101?

From Devon Live (http://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/brand-new-great-western-railway-779303)

Pictured on the sea wall at Dawlish ...


I'm not sure that (m)any will be routed via Bristol?

Errrrr, isn't 802101 a 9 car? The one that has been outside North Pole recently

Yes - shouldn't believe everything anything I read on Devon Live

This is 802002, taking test runs between Stoke Gifford and Penzance this week.

The carriage end overhang is quite impressive and the number of inter-carriage connecting cables is considerable.  Unfortunately I was on the wrong platform to judge the stepping distance from the door to curved platform (Saltash Down Platform).  The doors do look very narrow.

As BNM has stated above this was five-car set No.802002.

(http://cbrailways.co.uk/PhotoAlbumsPro/1379866239/IET%20Saltash%2016_11_2017_1.jpg?cache=0.18802215883068873)
Image (c)2017 SandTEngineer

My impression was that the doors were of comparable width to an HST door. 

Water pouring in again and an evacuation of one of the new trains due to "fumes" this morning apparently.

Was this on the 0700 Paddington - BTM? It left Paddington 27 late and has just left Chippenham 54 late.
The automatic announcements at Didcot said it was because it had arrived late from the depot (which appears to be true according to RTT).

If that is the same train then the passengers are telling a somewhat different story.....quite possible/likely that more than one have fallen over though.... it is a tad chilly after all.

Last Friday evening was bad too. One IET got in the papers after it was cancelled RDG-BRI (1C27, problem with the train (M8)).

However, this was an evening with loads of other absentees:
All day (and all HSTs, I think) a string of: "problem at the depot (MU)"
An HST over RDG-PAD: "1L76, problems with the doors (M7)"
And even this oddity for RDG-PAD: "1J99 incident at a level crossing (XD)"

It's at times like this you look to your shiny new trains to be the reliable ones, isn't it?

Different train.  The smell of fumes was on 06:33 BRI-PAD which was delayed by 9 minutes at Swindon as a result, though then lost its path (5 extra mins) and had a door issue at Reading (3 extra mins) and arrived Paddington 18 minutes late, so not a serious delay.

You are of course going to get the odd problem with brand new trains and crews that are getting used to them.

Didn't we have a similar problem when the HST's first entered service. The smell was attributed to the brakes and it was suggested that drivers power down earlier and  'coast ' for a distance before applying the brakes and wasn't the composition of the brake pads altered which to a large extent eliminated the  " fumes ".

I agree with II.  The IET’s seem to be settling in reasonably well, considering how different they are from HST's.  One of the main potential issues was poor timekeeping because of lack of power on diesel, but this has been largely overcome by running the engines at their full power rating (though no-one has said anything about the financial settlement with Hitachi to allow this).

Presumably the S&T interference problem on electric between Reading and Didcot has been fixed, again no information about this.  Maybe the “leakers” on the inside have been told to keep quiet.

IIRC, the problem of brake smells on the HST was mitigated by fitting a flap to the brake mechanism which closed an aircon intake when brakes were applied. 

The "hot brakes" smells still occur (or maybe I have a sensitive nose!) on HST's, especially when braking to a stop (or near stop) from 125. Quite noticeable sometimes.

Glad I'm not the only one TC!

All depends on how quickly the brake is applied and whether the ‘flap’ has time to close or not.  Moving the brake controller straight to emergency or full service will give you the smell, going through the braking steps steadily by selecting initial, then step two, three etc. will mean little or no smell.  The driver sometimes doesn’t have a choice of course.

Back in the day when we were still fitting brake pads that had asbestos in the friction material there was no problem with the smell it was just the dust that could kill you !!...

I hope the much lorded contact for the IEP diagrams with the penalties for not meeting the required diagrams is being enforced with these issues.

I think I should retract that statement, as the different seat colours I saw were just protective coverings on seats of new sets delivered to North Pole.

Are there problems with IEPs switching to electric power? I'm on the 0659 from Didcot, still on diesel leaving Reading.

Edit: diesel all the way to Paddington.

Yesterday I did see two IETs pass through Reading, on proper hectomains electricity in and out. So it is possible. But I could invent a possible explanation for it not happening every time - say if depends on a small modification to the trains that not all have received. 

It was suggested somewhere a few months ago that some early drivers would not initially be trained on OHLE operation.  No idea if that was true, either then or now...

Paul

It was true, not sure if anybody has yet to be passed on electric operation now though.

Yesterday there was a report of a missing sign on the Up Main for the changeover to Electric. Drivers were being advised at the Didcot station call or at a signal if not stopping not to raise the pantograph. This went on until this afternoon when normal working resumed. Not sure if this would be the reason though.

Both the trains I saw yesterday with pans up were down services, so that would at least fit. There should have been an up train too, but it was an HST.

The Names Bond Michael Bond !
As of lunchtime today class 800 ,800010 is carrying the name of the author on one end and his character Paddington Bear on the other.
The names were unveiled today at Paddington by none other than our very own Mark Hopwood and the late authors daughter,on platform one at about 1pm.

IET named 'Michael Bond' this lunchtime - video on twitter. I think the number was 800 010

There are also vinyls of Paddington Bear on the doors of 800010.

Some from the modern movies and some illustrations from the original books.

What a missed opportunity for a long overdue "Meet the Manager" session at Paddington!

I'm sure Hopwood would have welcomed the chance to meet some of his customers face to face to discuss/get feedback on the current standard of service and all the promised improvements which they're noticing?

He could even have dressed up as Paddington Bear to cheer everyone up!

So, a confirmed sighting of a Mark Hopwood, one for the I Spy book!

Second one in a week.

I think you’ve got more chance of meeting Paddington Bear.

Mating season?

Do you mean as in " 'ere mate, I want a word with you... "

It would take all the filming ingenuity of the Springwatch team and then some to produce Hopwoodwatch.

Endangered species are notoriously shy & hard to find, they tend to hide away......in this particular case the creature in question will occasionally emerge if there are cameras present, and if he's guaranteed back slapping & being tickled behind the ear he may well be visible for a few hours before disappearing again for many more months......

I just read that out loud in my best David Attenborough impersonation !..
Very funny well done TG.

Perhaps the springwatch team could set a camera trap in the buffet car of an IET in order to photograph the elusive creature.

A buffet car??  Aren’t they already extinct on an IET?

I think that was the punchline because they don't exist  :)

From Journeycheck this am (11/01.2018)

07:12 Taunton to London Paddington due 10:14


Facilities on the 07:12 Taunton to London Paddington due 10:14.

This is due to a fault occurring when attaching a part of this train.

Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.


Could be a cosy journey for some today particularly those with reservations in the half of the service that ain't there.

Just passed Doncaster on a (25 min delayed!) Virgin Eastcoaster to Leeds, and think I saw a 9-coach IET (green, but without GWR branding) parked-up which I think was 800303 (we were going quite quick past it!) - would that be right?

Yes, according to reports in Rail it's ready and waiting for its turn - after all the 36 800/0s are delivered. 800302 has been out and testing on the GWR, and 800304 is a-building at Newton Aycliffe.

After that earlier observation, I also managed my first IET ride, on the 1730 out of PAD this evening.

Very noticeable how the 5 coaches nearest the buffers were very full as I boarded, and the front 5 were half empty, so that's where I went for my short ride to RDG.

Feels bright and spacious. Seats do feel hard on first contact, but after a few mins got used to it, and the seat shape seems to encourage good posture. Whether I'd be so happy after a long journey I'm not so sure until I try it, but the Virgin East Cost 225 and HST I spent 4.5 hrs on altogether today did feel more comfortable, but less spacious.

Acceleration felt impressive as we were passing OOC and we reached RDG in 24 mins. Overall quite impressed.

After a couple of journeys I'm not too fussed about the seats - they are firm, yes, but not really any more than the seat I spend most of my day typing away in.

What concerns me more is the luggage space: it feels like the lessons of the Voyagers have not been learned. Coach-end racks are smaller than HSTs or Eurostars. The "bike and bulk" rooms are small and ill-conceived. There is no equivalent of the carriage C space on an HST, which was informally the space where pushchairs would go if no wheelchairs required it. Even the gangways seem narrower than an HST, and I've very often seen suitcases or similar stashed in HST gangways.

I have concerns over luggage space too.  Hopefully the 802s will have more, reflecting their usage on the Cornish routes.

Is there any reason, or rumour, for thinking they will?

If so, the most obvious way to do it would be to replace (some of) those windowless seats across the aisle from a luggage rack by more racks - though they'd probably be the same design.

There’s something in the back of my mind about more luggage space, but that might be tied up with the buffet that was being considered before being dropped.

IET's splitting at Reading now ;-


13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:43

Facilities on the 13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:43.

Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10 between Reading and Bristol Temple Meads. Will divide at Reading, front 5 coaches only for Bristol Temple Meads via Swindon.

Additional Facilities Information

This train will divide at Reading today, the front 5 coaches only continue to Bristol Temple Meads.

Many times something that's intended as a one-off illustrates what could be done on a regular basis. Certain evening peak services from London are rammed to Reading then quieter beyond.

Why not take train like the 17:06 and 18:06 and drop 5 at Reading, coming back on an "opposite" service and then providing a further extra 5 cars out of Paddington some 90 minutes later?

Or how would the Cheltenham Spa and Bedwyn (or Westbury or regional train via Taunton) combine to use only one London - Reading slot during the day, with portion working beyond?

I've now lost my IET virginity. As I only travel a single stop along the Cotswold Line - and as I sit most of the day at work - I choose to stand. The vestibule areas seem much smaller than on HSTs and 180s; it felt especially cramped with just six or seven standing today. The problem is increased since passengers for stations with short platforms are concentrated in just a couple of coaches. Early days, I know, but there is a sense of disappointment.

MY first IET today.  CDF to PAD by HST and the reverse by IET so a chance to compare. 

Going (07:59) was mostly empty even though we added the cancelled 08:00 Paignton passengers.

Returning (15:45) was full so had to stand (with two others in the (small) vestibule until Reading.  The slightest movement triggered the automatic doors so I had to keep really still.  Got a seat then.  As is said, thin and hard but not uncomfortable although I felt a bit close to the bloke sitting next to me.  Better legroom than the Mk 3 airline seating.

Ride comfort seemed fairly comparable but perhaps not quite as good as a Mk 3.  The switch from volts to diesel caused a slight thump but apart from that was seamless.  The only obvious difference was some increase in vibration felt through the floor.  From outside, the IET sounds like a Voyager taking off but inside are a lot quieter.

The train manager's announcements were mostly inaudible, which was a nuisance as we were affected by a defect in the Down Main at Didcot but no-one could hear what was being said about it.  I had to rely on Journey Check.  I mentioned it politely to the TM when he checked the tickets but he didn't improve.

As we slowed down for Cardiff, he made the first audible announcement, which was a new one on me:


No, don't.   

I think I said in my review a couple of months ago that I was surprised floor sensors had been fitted for that very reason.  One of the big faults with the HST Mk III’s is when somebody is constantly activating the doors when stood in the vestibule, especially (as is often the case) if they are taking a mobile phone call, or chatting to a friend at what they think is an appropriate level due to the noise in the vestibule, but of course it’s not for anyone sat in the saloon area!

It’s a much less intrusive problem on IET’s though as the vestibule area is almost as quiet as the saloon area and the doors open almost silently compared with a huge ‘whoosh’ on many of the Mk III doors.

I'm not sure that there are floor sensors.  Isn't there an overhead sensor just above the door?   I tested and it seemed to me that arm-waving had the effect of opening the door.

Other fora suggesting there is going to be some sort of IET journey time record attempt between PAD and RDG this morning, the 1045 to Swansea being the train in question. Apparently 20 mins is the target and the sets involved are 800013 and 800021.

Only what I have read elsewhere so don't shoot the messenger etc.....worth watching on RTT etc though to see what actually happens.

Be interesting to see if they hold it back a minute to ensure the HEx has time to clear airport junction then it’s a 10 minute gap. The train in front being the 1035 to Paignton

That should shake the orange juice up in the Pullman then....  ;D

Does this mean it/they would be drawing more power from the wires for that burst of energy?  Or am I just being too simplistic.  Only a limited amount of juice to be shared around surely.  Don't want to turn my PC and monitor off fearing a power surge!  :D :D

Could be - not button operated though which has been the norm for new fleets recently.

Actually left 1/2 minute early if RTT is to be believed

Unconfirmed at 21 mins. Seems this was to show what can be achieved within permitted line speeds.

It's going to feature in the next series of the Paddington "fly-on-the-wall" documentary, apparently.

When I was at Reading a couple of weeks ago they were recording a Reading 'fly on the wall' documentary for Channel 5, so it could be used for that.

From RTT, unfortunately it was 12 late by Swindon!
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C55335/2018/01/19/advanced

Heard a rumour from fairly reliable source that one of the problems with the 5 car units is coupling two sets together.

Due to the streamlined nose the driver loses sight of the coupler on the set he's approaching so has to guided with hand signals.

The problem with auto couplers is they have to be given a fairly hard bang to couple but hard enough  to cause damage  or too soft not to couple properly.

Maybe they should fit a camara in the nose like a reversing camera on  cars with lines showing distance from the other unit.

Apparently that's why the 387s have the a white light on the right front level with the coupler to assist coupling.

If that is correct then there would seem to be problems with both coupling and uncoupling, issues which Hitachi will surely need to resolve asap.

I assume that the speed of these trains is electronically controlled.  If the drivers can't judge that reliably, then can't there be a setting on the console that gets it right every time?   

"Can the units couple together" Seems a pretty basic detail for GWR to have ascertained during/after testing and before signoff acceptance into service?

The Dellner/Scharfenberg pattern coupler widely used in the older Electrostar and Desiro fleets (and on 387s and 800s) doesn’t normally require a ‘fairly hard bang’ to make it work.  The coupling action is hardly noticeable in the stationary portion.

I think the forward facing white light on more recent electrostar variants was reported to be for track illumination for the forward facing CCTV.

Basing my experience on the Chiltern Simulator coupling a 168! 

Video of IETs coupling at Swansea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiitEoXTrbE&feature=youtu.be

Pedant mode ON
These units use the BSI coupler, not the Dellner/Scharfenberg design.
Pedant mode OFF

Interesting guy signalling driver wasn't wearing Hi-Vis.

Looks like it was a fellow driver on the platform.  No need for hi-viz.

0659 from Didcot this morning, definitely still on diesel approaching Reading... Starting to feel like there are some persistent problems switching over.

Does anyone know whether the different Class 800 variants are considered to require separate traction knowledge?  I am thinking in particular of the version for the Plymouth and Penzance trains.

I don’t know for sure, but I would doubt it.  Unless the location of equipment and controls are radically different.  Small differences are to be expected but, like the 165/166 fleet, I don’t think there will be enough for them to be considered different.

Might be different rules for running on full diesel power between 800s and 802s

Just watched a London bound IEP leave Reading with pantographs up but a distinct diesel engine sound from the end nearest me. Is there any explanation for that other than ongoing problems with switch over?

The fans cooling the input transformer do make quite a racket, though it's not exactly diesel-like. The transformer in one end carriage, while the diesels, of course, are only in the middle three.

I watched one going through Reading yesterday - definitely  electric in and out.

No, this was definitely engine noise from the diesel coach next to the transformer coach, ie the second along from the end. I think other ones were running as well, but couldn't be sure. I had walked to the end to see if the pan was up because  I was  curious about the noise.

I saw 800204 go past me on Platform 6 today with its pan up and on electric.

I sure hope it was not using Platform 6 at Reading with its pan up  ;)

From the RMT letter that was posted elsewhere on the forum, I believe all IEP's have to be operationally the same. Of course if there are differences, GWR will provide training courses to drivers as and when needed.

Does anyone know how IEP introduction is going compared with what was planned? My impression from the last couple of weeks is more consistent with HST introduction and IEP withdrawal!

Edit- just seen one at Reading,.London bound running on diesel...

Seems like GWR are using this as part of their social media talk! (For anywho can't or doesn't want to go to the Facebook link, its a speeded up cab view of the run).

https://www.facebook.com/gwruk/videos/10155136262406806/ (https://www.facebook.com/gwruk/videos/10155136262406806/)

We had reports earlier of electric-mode IETs upsetting axle counters, and I rather dismissed this when it was raised on the grounds that these axle counters were designed to cope with electric traction and have met a lot of different varieties already. But I heard it last month being described as still happening, and now I see the same on RailUK forums today. So could it really be direct EM interference with the sensors, rather than comms cables (which was also reported before as affecting the axle counters)?

I already knew that the Thales Zp30 sensors work at around 30 kHz, which seems safely above any mains harmonics that should escape filtering. But, of course, the trains have other power frequencies, to drive the motors and within the inverters. AIUI the motor drive (DC to three phase, and the reverse) and the input rectifier/converter (which works in reverse as a DC to single phase inverter for regeneration) will be PWM IGBT inverters. Exactly what that means doesn't matter here, except that the IGBT switches are turned off and on many times per cycle of the power frequency, and that switching frequency is a potential source of interference well above 100 Hz.

You can hear this frequency: most modern trains sing (even diesels, though you can't hear it). Some sing with a wide vibrato, 800s without - I went to audition one last week in Reading. I've never been any good at "name that tone", so my judgement of the frequency as about 1 kHz may be wildly out. I didn't think to record it, and I don't seem to have anything (audio or mainly video) that would cope with this rather quiet sound. If anyone happens to have a recording of one, maybe it could be looked at.

If there is interference from a harmonic of the inverter frequency, who's responsible for stopping it? I reckon the train is. That frequency has no reason to be outside the black box with "inverter" written on it; it only has any function inside it. It should be filtered out - after all, one reason for putting it much higher than the power frequency is to make such filtering easier. So I can see two fixes for this: add some more/modify the filtering, or shift the switching frequency a little to move all the harmonics to new safe positions.

The rules about this are in a technical standard (EN 50121), Railway Group Standards GE/RT8015 and GE/RT8270 about who does what, changes, and resolving conflicts. The infrastructure controller (NR) draws up lists of the emissions levels the various bits of his lineside equipment can tolerate versus frequency. Similar lists are needed for trains' susceptibility to infrastructure (and each other!), which can be route-specific. These lists are then an implied part of any rolling stock or infrastructure equipment procurement.

In this case the trains are new, and so is the widespread use of the axle counters. Which was known about first and could be listed as pre-existing it's hard to say, and I can't see anything on those RGSs about setting aside a band for future use and protecting it from EMI. So it probably comes down to the same kind of pragmatic engineering that EMI always has - you all just have to ignore the lawyers, dive into the can together, and wrestle those worms.

EMI means something very different in Hayes. They had a large employment base by the railway line manufacturing vinyl records, medical instruments and possibly other stuff.

Most things do mean something else if you want them to (and if you don't). And EMI did far more than that - TV (Schoenberg's system, which really worked), radar, stereo records, etc, etc.

I did visit Blyth Road, Hayes, a couple of times. It would have been more but by the time EMI 'joined' us in Thales they were already planning to move to Crawley. There they met up with MEL again, having split a bit earlier, so that TPWS became one of their products again. That work was always done a Crawley (no, it's a lovely place, really).

Anyway, I was talking to one of my informants* tonight, and apparently the proposed cure for this IET vs axle counter issue is to replace one of the cables with a fibre-optic one. I don't know if that's been tried, and may be the replaced cable there was talk about earlier.

Of course you can't just replace a cable - it has to be a link, including the bit that goes inside the box at each end. And that's only going to work for digital links, so not the cable from the rail-mounted sensor to the electronics unit (yellow mushroom). From there to the ACE (grey box) is not a standard data link - it's actually ISDN, with power supplies too. But it can be replaced by another physical link, as can those from an ACE to the neighbouring ACEs or into the signalling system.

That would mean that the problem is not so much due to being an axle counter, but having to be close to the track and joined with long cables. That's true of other equipment, so why just a few of these AzLMs and one train type should be giving so much trouble remains unclear.

* I should make clear that I don't have any internal Thales information on this - I was  referring to alternative local sources of rumours.

Sounds creepy to me...

Alan Blumlein worked there, I believe. And somewhere I have seen a video of GWR freight train shot from an EMI window with the sound in stereo.

Just watched the 07:59 from Swansea, a 10-car IET, arrive at Paddington with the rear 5 locked out of use.  The front half looked wedges to the rafters.  The locked out train was then unlocked at Paddington so all 10 were in service as it boarded for the 11:30 to Bristol.  After most passengers had settled those on the rear five were then turfed off minutes before departure as the back 5 were then hastily locked out of use.  Front five wedged again and a 10 minute late departure due to sorting the resulting mess out.

If this sort of nonsense isn’t sorted by the summer then I dread to think how we’ll cope.  Utterly pathetic!

And on the way back ... or is that a different train doing the same thing??

I recall a promise that all of the busiest trains in and out of Paddington would be 9 or 10 carriages - none of them would be just 5.   Were we promised all 9 or 10 carriages in use?

There’s quite a few 10 down to 5 IETs listed on JC today. The sooner the 9 car IETs arrive the better. GWR are struggling to provide crew for one train so it’s no surprise they can’t provide two sets of crew for these 2 x 5 trains. Why not have built the 9 car sets first?

All that’s happened is a new problem has been created of trains running with no passengers. Hardly the image protrayed on the famous 5 adverts is it?

International rugby at Cardiff tomorrow and this combined with the usual lack of staff on a Sunday could prove very embarrassing for GWR if they've got nothing arranged........accepting of course that they are immune to embarrassment.

Perhaps an idea for 1st April
... 5 car train will be carriages A, D, G, J and T for Anne, Dick, George(ina), Julian and Timmy

But they have, if you believe notices. When at Bristol Parkway yesterday afternoon there was a prominent notice advising of two extra services to the Rugby International but, mind you, I didn;t read the notice just noticed it so it could be a motley collection of assorted sprinters cobbled together running from BTM and BPW only. Have to have a look at RTT later.

Are you sure this time?  :P

It may seem obvious, but one of the key tasks for a TOC is to recruit, train and retain enough traincrew to run the service they plan to operate.  Clearly GWR are failing miserably on this. 

In my day (and I think this goes for a few of us who post here) cancelling trains because of a shortage of traincrew was almost unheard of, even through the periods of training for HSTs and Turbos for example.  Why does GWR find the management of traincrew so difficult? 

Didn't someone say that the number of train crew was specified in the franchise?  If that is true then no one would plan on supplying more or they would not get the contract. There is also a limit to how many people can be trained to drive at once and rail companies are competing for a finite pool of drivers. Of course GWR could improve their chances by giving better terms and conditions, but many of this parish want to make them worse by making Sunday work mandatory so there and DfT want DOO more the norm so there is a bit of a conflict here. 

It has been explained a number of times how knock on effects of the delays to electrification has compressed the the training on new (or cascaded) stock so that the number of drivers hours being taken up with training is much higher than could be planned - albeit over a shorter period.  It has also been reported that in some or even many cases, drivers are available, but they are not qualified for the stock being used.   

The DfT like other government departments is clear that it wants its contractors to cut costs to the absolute minimum without realising the lack of resilience that provides when things don't go to plan - in this case electrification delays and the consequent delays in cascading stock. 

This all sounds to me like a problem of people who think they can have their cake and eat it. But then that is government policy.

So then there is the matter of why GWR don't come out explain it all. 

To answer this we should perhaps consider who GWR's customers are.  Yes of course it's all of us! But we are what economists call inelastic customers, we are relatively unlikely to go elsewhere, because we have no alternative.

However, if you look at it another way their main client and the one most likely to take their business elsewhere is DfT since they could not operate the line without the franchise.  So if coming clean means you have to say its all the fault of your biggest customer who could mark you down for the next contract what do you do?

.......and if you were in any doubt, you can now see that it really is possible to be that smug.

I try and explain that the system stinks.  Are you suggest is that I am being smug?

Describing a system doesn't indicate support for it - but can so easily misread as being its advocate.   However, there's a hugely useful function in describing a system if you want to understand it and improve it.

I came down on the 17:00 (2 x 5) from Paddington to TM today.  My first journey on an IET and I thought it went well.  I was happy with the seats, negligible diesel engine noise and the lower seat backs make the carriage far more open.

The 'catering trolley' appeared after Reading with an apology.  There was 1 trolley that had done the other 5 carriages before Reading.

Interestingly the boards at Paddington, RTT and the train displays stated we would stop at Didcot.  The guard announced at Reading that we would not and then took pleasure in telling the passengers to ignore the display and announcements as we were proceeding through Didcot at full speed.

Another post on my why aren't IEPs using electricity theme: I'm on the 1730 Pad to Taunton train today. Electric power to Reading, then they started the diesels. Why not switch at Didcot?

Driver error perhaps ???

Aren't the axle counters tripping somewhere between Reading and Didcot, as what happened between Maidenhead and Reading a couple of months ago, this affects the IET on electric, class 387s are fine. Last time a length of cable needed replacing to solve the matter, I'm guessing they haven't got round to doing this section yet

Travelled to Reading from Bath on Tuesday and pretty sure they switched to Electric at Didcot.

It's only in the Down direction that  there is a problem with the axle counters.

Staffing: I don't know what's specified in franchises or any other industry-specific or GWR-specific factors (though I do remember reading something in the last days of BR about an impending shortage of train drivers cos they were all nearing retirement age, and how they were recruiting in women's magazines cos they reckoned women made better drivers; and more relevantly right now, I know someone who's just left his job to start training as a train driver – he's in his 50s too, but male) but wider factors must affect TOCs like other businesses. People generally are more mobile in terms of employment and don't expect to remain in one job for more than a few years, which is bound to be a problem in jobs requiring long training.

Faster turn over of staff, especially drivers, is certainly costing the industry a lot of money compared to the British Rail days when it was considered a 'job for life' when you got your key after serving an apprenticeship as a 'second man' and often stayed working at the same depot for thirty or forty years plus before retirement.  There's not many of those old hands left now - and the arrival of new traction such as the IETs has persuaded some in their early 60s that can afford to take early retirement to go early rather than learn something totally new for only a couple of years. 

By no means all new drivers leave to work for a different company after a couple of years, or stop driving entirely, but the percentage is far higher now that it has ever been.

Thanks for that very insightful insight, IndustryInsider.  ;)

In my day job (not railway) too, many qualified and experienced drivers these days are happy to 'pick and choose' where they work, and for whom.

Not a time for a company to push for unpopular changes in working conditions then, regardless of unions. 

Its the same with aviation though, mainly because crew,pilots and engineers get treated like a piece of dirt by management.

And busses. Management treat anyone below with disdain.  Comments from 'those below' as to run on time and improve the service are always ignored; it's those below who take the fallout from the public.

From my limited experience (2 Visits) the US has by and large a Service economy whilst the UK still has a servile economy.

Corrected Service for device.

Looks like a London bound IET had broken down this morning at Reading.

I was at the station at 10 and all the passengers were getting off the train and crossing the bridge to board London bound ones on platforms 10 & 11. It was still at there empty at 10.30.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C55758/2018/03/21/advanced (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C55758/2018/03/21/advanced)  perhaps ?

Ah yes.  Ready to go then!  :-)

Thanks!

So was it actually a break down or did it get delayed?  As sometimes people seem to claim breakdowns to make the IET's sound worse than they are.

Todays list of short train formations train formation updates includes several 5 car instead of 10 car due to "more trains than usual needing repairs"
Presumably these are 5 car IETs instead of 5+5 car IETs. Are Hitachi paying penalties for this, or is there some wiggle room ?

The 1730 out of Paddington last night ran as a 5 car. A fellow commuter was on a 5+5 some weeks ago with one half out of service. That was due to lack of trained crew though.

As I recall, the performance regime as written in the MARA & TARA only applies to the full fleet. However, there may be something that applies at this stage lurking among all those words.

I've been trying to find the TOC performance targets but I'm sure they are not published. I also remember seeing a report on a different TOC lambasting the DfT for changing the target. Does anyone have a link to these?

Do you mean the details of how performance affects franchise payments to/from DfT, as well as breach conditions? There is lots of that - more than it's easy to make sense of - in the franchise agreement (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-great-western) itself, mainly in schedule 7 (from p 306).

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/padtau.png)

I know what they mean, and I expect you do too - but would the average passenger?

The targets are agreed with ORR but I remember reading a report late at night about a TOC (think it was GTR Southern) and the DfT changing the targets without publication. The report was chasterising the parties. I have a funny feeling it was a NAO report. I want to do an FOI to see if GWR has had its target changed and the rations for the change. It will give some creed to a party accepting the liability for the recent driver debacle.

I don't think ORR have any role in franchising at all. DfT have what they call the Public register of rail passenger franchise agreements (https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/public-register-of-rail-passenger-franchise-agreements), which they describe thus:

So they are agreeing with you that negotiated changes to the agreements may not be public. However, since they acknowledge the public's right to see them, they should answer a direct question as to whether there is a newer version and why they have not posted. Well, logically they should, if that counts for anything.

You're right. The targets are agreed with the DfT with the ORR holding Network Rail to account 

"A primary role for us is to enforce consumer law and compliance with the conditions contained in Network Rail’s and train operators’ licenses, to help ensure that all rail users get the service to which they are entitled"

I think I'm going to need to do so more digging. It has really annoyed me that there has been no public announcement about the problems. Have any other forum users had any correspondence from any of the parties involved? I noticed that they have not organised a meet the manager since the problems escalated in October 2017.

As I think I have posted already, I E-Mailed Mark Hopwood direct requesting a Media statement but an acknowledgement  came back from Customer Services on his behalf with the cut and paste reply that they would reply in due course.  I gave up any escalating as I sensed I would get nowhere..

Over the past few days there seem to be less trains cancelled for driver shortages but a lot more trains short formed??? Especially the 10 carriage ones operating as 5 carriage trains.... Driver shortage over but now a shortage of crews??

There also seems to be more carriages out for maintenance at the moment or is this just a smokescreen for the other franchises have started to get the trains promised from the redistribution of the GWR fleet?

I think there's been more trains "than usual" in for repair for at least 18 months now, so God knows what constitutes "usual" (again GWR always avoid that question) the baffling thing is that the trains are much newer now, so why do they constantly need repair?

First time today that I've travelled on an IET with the reservation displays/lights in use.

Unfortunately they were showing reservations for a previous journey in the opposite direction (I was travelling Charlbury-Oxford, the reservations were for Paddington-Oxford and similar), but still, baby steps...

How about.... we know there is a problem with the quiet carriage signs were working on a solution.... since October... here's a solution buy some vinyl off eBay with the word quiet carriage on it. It doesn't take 6 months

Half length IEPs seem to be a regular event now, it is starting to look a bit like the voyager introduction.

9 car IETs can’t come soon enough.

Yes indeed. Broadgage’s pessimistic outlook might indeed come to pass but I think it’s too early to make any assumptions until the 9-car sets are in use and the new timetable introduced next January.

What never seems to have been made clear is the crew requirements.  If there’s a requirement for a second guard, train manager whatever, are they preempting a set locked out of use because there’s no one to operate it?

Paul

There is a requirement for a competent safety-trained person in each separate gangwayed area of the 800 class 10 car trains (though not to operate the second set, I don't think), but there is not such a requirement where two 143s or 16x units are coupled.  That does not necessarily mean two train managers - ticket checkers are also "competent people" ... and at present more of them are riding trains rather than being on datelines, I believe. So that could be why there is very limited use (so far) of that new gateline at Chippenham, for example. 

Was this requirement for double crewing of a 5+5 IET known when they were ordered ? Or is it a later requirement, presumably by the trade union.
A cynic like me might suspect that this double crewing requirement might be a good excuse to operate a single unit when two units might have been better.
"we would have liked to operate a double unit, and this is a future aspiration, but due to staffing and financial constraints, some services will be single units"

Known when they were ordered I believe.  As Graham says, it just has to be somebody deemed ‘competent’, so Ticket Examiners are fine.

This has cropped up elsewhere: https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/intercity-express-programme-iep050118/

Is the reason why quite a number of IET scheduled services are running 5 rather than 10 with one set locked out of use?

Unable to crew the rear unit.

Is this due to crew shortages? If so, any idea why?

Surely GWR knew how many crew would be needed?

GWR know crew are needed for all the cancelled trains that are listed in the traincrew shortage thread. Over to GWR :) :)

And still lots of diesel running under the wires between London and Didcot. Saw another one pull out of PAD this morning with engines on, pantographs down. The suspicion grows that there are still technical problems with the IEP that aren't being admitted to.

ECS moves out of Paddington use diesel rather than electric for the short hop to North Pole, also track circuit issues on the down line near Tilehurst mean it’s diesel from Reading on westbound trains for the time being, rather east of Didcot.  Up trains are unaffected.  I continue to be impressed how smooth the changeover is, both whilst moving and stationary, and how quiet the diesel engines are both internally and externally.

However, I’m sure there are many technical issues still being addressed (the reservation system for one), and learning curves being, well, curved!

The problem on the down main west of Reading must have been fixed around a week before Easter as I have noticed many heading over Cow Lane on electric since then

Sitting at Pad on the 1800 to Bristol, diesel engine rumbling merrily away!

Yes, I noted that one was as well.  The other dozen or so (including one ECS move to North Pole) that I saw today were all running on OHLE as they arrived and departed from Paddington.

Everyone in the rear half of the 1645 Paddington-Swansea was moved forward yesterday when the 'Under Guard' (Ticket Manager?) failed to show. Departed 9 late and cosy.

Such a waste carting around five empty carriages which is happening all too often.

"Under Guard"........is that a euphemism for a jockstrap?

The turbos never needed a guard or other member of staff in the rear train when they were joined together. Why do the IET's need it?

Because RMT.

Turbos mostly run under DOO conditions.  Turbos on non-DOO routes where some of the platforms are long enough, i.e. the Cotswold Line, cannot run in multiple with both sets unlocked.

What about the non gangwayed 150's?

Not so sure on the West fleet - perhaps someone can elaborate?

From my own personal standpoint I think every section of a non-gangway train should have a competent person on board each section to be able to help the driver and/or train manager if situations like Lewisham arise.  Be they a guard, a ticket examiner, or trolley staff as long as they have had basic emergency training.  That would include DOO trains.  I can't see it being enforced any time soon, Chiltern for example operate trains of up to four non-gangway sets both DOO and with a Guard.

I had the experience a couple of years back of being on a non-gangwayed 150 from Bristol to Bath. I was in the front carriage and wanted to buy a ticket, as I had started at Stapleton Road, had no chance on that train of buying a ticket, and wanted to get away from Bath Spa ASAP. Nobody available between the two locked doors. I waited until Keynsham - a lot of passengers got on, but still no crew, so at Oldfield Park, I hopped off and got into the next carriage. There were three staff there, all of whom started the old "I thought Jim was doing the front" - "No, I'm here, I thought Betty was up there" - "No, I'm here..."routine, finishing with a sotto voce "Oh sh*t!". I got my ticket, and also the impression that this should not have happened, and would have been viewed most seriously had anyone official seen it.

But nobody was harmed.

The inaugural passenger service runs for the GWR Class 802/0 (five car sets) are scheduled to be on July 16th 2018. Diagrams as follows:

1A72 0553 Plymouth to London Paddington
1D20 0950 London Paddington to Oxford
1P26 1201 Oxford to London Paddington
1C89 1633 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
1A98 1955 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington

1C04 0730 London Paddington to Penzance
1A93 1400 Penzance to London Paddington
1C96 2003 London Paddington to Plymouth

Each of those 2 diagrams will be worked as 2x five car sets.

Usual caveats for this information. Not yet confirmed by GWR.

Crikey! They're not easing them in slowly, are they!

Played skittles Tuesday night and my pair for the night had requested to be first on as he was off to London after he'd played.

Whilst playing he told me of his wife's and his trip to London last weekend for a family event.

Arrived at Bristol Parkway for their booked train and found it was front 5 carriages only and of course their booked seats were in the rear 5 carriages so passengers surged along the platform as the train came in and it was a slow process alighting and boarding and he said to his wife, "in here", and they both got into first class as there was clearly few, if any, seats available in standard class. No ticket check to Swindon.

At Swindon an elderly couple of which the male was visually impaired got on with Customer Assistance and he clearly heard the assisting GWR staff member say to the elderly lady that if there was any problem to show their printed itinerary to the ticket inspector.

By Didcot still no ticket check and there about a dozen people came into the carriage and sat down and he said, "looked as if they were intent on an evening out in town", which turned out to be Reading which was again reached without a ticket check.

Leaving Reading he heard a voice, "All tickets please", so he got his wallet out, extracted the tickets and seat reservations from it and place them on the table. The ticket examiner picked up the tickets and remarked that they were standard class and this is first class. "Yes," he said, " and those reservations are for seats in a carriage back there", whilst he waved a hand above his head pointing to the rear of the train. "Oh, that doesn't give you the right to occupy first class seats in its place", said the ticket inspector. He said, "as the ticket inspector was saying this he opened his wallet, extracted a business card and handed it to the ticket inspector with the words well you get your supervisor to write to me at my business address to explain why not". The ticket inspector insisted that he would have to excess fare them but he could complain and if his complaint was valid the excess fare would be refunded. He said. "pointing to the business card in the ticket examiners hand I told him that he had my business card and for his superiors to write to me and include an invoice for the excess fare if they wish and concluded with the words matter adjourned". The ticket examiner carried on to the remaining passengers. As they were getting off the train at Paddington as his wife walked in front of him towing her Easyjet compliant cabin baggage case he noticed her case had run over a piece of card on the floor of the carriage and he stooped to pick it up and it was his business card. I laughed knowing that his business card reads, name and qualifications, Barrister, and the chambers address from which he conducts his professional services.

Their Sunday return was less eventful, their booked train was cancelled and they got on an earlier service on which they found two seats together.

He concluded that the weekends London visit was the third this year that he had made which would result in a full refund and he'd had a few more where one journey or other has been disrupted resulting in a complaint. 

I am not convinced that the new trains being shorter* gives an automatic entitlement to use first class with a standard class ticket. Nor does the failure of GWR to honour reservations give such an entitlement, even for barristers.

The train manager might of course permit this at their discretion, but it is not an entitlement.

*I refer here to the length of train available for passenger use, the fact that another 5 vehicles are attached but not available for use is not relevant from the passengers point of view.

It's a pity that the usual consumer protection doesn't apply to train tickets. I think I'd be quite frustrated if I've reserved a seat on a busy train for not only my reservation to have disappeared but the train to be half length. Probably wouldn't go sit in First Class though but then I'm still relatively fit and healthy.

It does tie in with the other post though about how some standard reservations were in first class carriages because of rolling stock changes but people were charged an upgrade. I think in that case I would have agreed with the Barrister.

Current Conndtions of Travel:

Unless you have made a reservation please note that your Ticket does not automatically entitle you to a seat, and at busy times you may have to stand. You will not be entitled to any refund in these cases unless you hold a first class Ticket and no first class seats were available on a train service where the timetable indicated that first class seats would be provided. More information on the refund to which you are entitled in such circumstances can be found in section 31 of these Conditions.

and

Unless Train Company staff, or notices on the train give you specific permission, you cannot travel in first class accommodation (including standing in corridors or passageways) with a standard class Ticket. This applies even if there are no vacant seats in standard class.

Conditions of Carriage to 2016

Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket. If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra charge.

---

Current conditions seem to make it very clear that you cannot travel in First class on a standard class ticket unless given permission by train company staff.   I might agree that's pretty harsh if you've reserved a seat, but the carriage it's in isn't available and there are no other standard class seats available on the train, but I think the correct action in such a case may be to either reclaim to ask a member of the TOC staff.

Part of me asks "why should a barrister be able to bluster his way through a circumstance that the rest of us would just give up on and pay up", but then the other part of me thinks "thank goodness someone stands up for his rights" (even though it sounds like he wan't in his rights!!).  

As described, the ticket examiner clearly made his pragmatic decision not to take the matter further at some point between moving on and the train arriving into London - he's perfectly entitled to do so.   His error was in dropping (in error, I would suspect) the barrister's business card.

I must get some of those cards printed. Is it two 's's in Barisster? Or I could try my spiel "Smell the coffee, my friend. I am a leading barista..."



Agreed. No-one wants a rum pole up the bailey. Losing the card has the hallmarks of a diplomatic accident.

It does.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies to rail travel. If the standard of service does not meet expectations customers can seek redress under the act. Its not just about compensation for delays.

If a train operator has failed to apply reasonable care and skill in providing a service then redress can be sought. First port of call is the operator. If you are not happy with their response then the next step is the (soon to go live) Rail Ombudsmen. Ultimately a passenger can seek redress through the courts.

And yes, a seat reservation not being honoured is an issue that could be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

We've already seen success in the courts for redress for delays that were outwith a train operators existing Delay Repay scheme. A passenger successfully sued for a string of delays less than 30 minutes each. The operator failed to defend the action and bailiffs were appointed to seize assets. Belatedly the operator paid the judgement.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Lords/2018-03-27/HL6706/

Saw this and thought of you lot

Made The BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-43751468) today

"Sorry that Mr Pochin felt the need to take this action" - is it possible to be any more patronising?

If I was a consumer rights lawyer commuting on the Cotswold Line I think I would have plenty of business cards ready.

1A23 has decided to park up on P8 at Reading

Due to dragging brakes.

If the issue with supposedly 10 car sets running round as 5 car sets keeps continuing GWR are either going to have to renegotiate with the unions, or order extra carriages to make these sets 7 or 8 cars. Although this is a DFT balls up, it is completely unfair to paying passengers to go from standing up on a HST, to possibly not even getting on the train because its only 5 coaches.

Where are all these promised extra onboard staff that are meant to be coming? Maybe GWR's recruitment process is too fussy?

Just saw 802001 pass through Reading non-stop at around 08:55.

Looks like most of the seats had their protective covers on still.

Is this one of the 802 units due to come into service shortly?

GWR Journey Check has now come up with new explanation for 5 vice 10 HSTs:-

The train is running in short formation due to alterations yesterday, which prevented trains ending yesterday at the correct depot last night for today's service.

And presumably no one could POSSIBLY have foreseen the need for these extra staff, and therefore started recruiting and training them in advance.
The late delivery of the new shorter trains should have given a bit of a margin for error and thereby increased the chances of being prepared.

I am a bit doubtful about extending the half length units to 7 or 8 car. Whilst 7/8 vehicles is a clear improvement on 5 vehicles, it is still a downgrade from the full length 5+5 or 9 car units. 7 or 8 car IEPs could not run in multiple on most routes due to platform length limits.
My previous experience of the wonders of "flexible train lengths" together with natural cynicism, leads me to suspect that if GWR DID have 7/8 car units, that these would be used instead of full length trains, rather than as an improvement over a half length train.

A better idea would be to lengthen some 5 car units to a full 9 car. That would still give a uniform fleet of only 2 train types, but would increase total capacity.

Due to be in service in July

Indeed.  I’ve said before that I think we would have been hopelessly underprepared had 800s, 387s and 365s all arrived as originally planned.


That would be a possibility, or you could extend some of the 5-Cars to 8-Cars, and extend the 9-Cars to 10-Cars, so you’d have a flexible fleet of 5, 8 and 10 car trains very much like Virgin West Coast has.

Plenty of options if needed, though we don’t know whether there will be the need for anything to be done yet.  Especially if GWR continues to do its best to put people off travelling.

Wouldn't be surprised to see something like that proposed either in the Direct Award or further down the line in the new franchise.

Anyone know anything about this?

https://twitter.com/RailLeaks/status/996773135583252480?s=19

...which says (for those of us who don't do twitter)?.... ::)

"We have received a tip off that there is a safety critical issue with [GWRs] IET fleet. Because of this GWR will be running their HSTs until early 2020"

Posted by "Rail Leaks  @RailLeaks  Releasing information about Uk Mainline and Heritage Railways."

See our thread on this in "The Rumour Mill" from 5 days ago - http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19789.0

Cold water poured on in there, but on the other hand there is rarely smoke without some sort of fire.

Safety critical but not such that they are being suspended from service.

Can't be that critical.

Indeed, as is well known I do not think a lot of the new trains, and I suspect that reliability/availability may fall short of that expected. However a "safety critical flaw" seems a bit unlikely as they are still running in passenger service.
Of course "safety critical" might be only in the eyes of the RMT ! Most strikes or threats thereof are over "safety" though a big enough pay rise can make the problem go away.

Or of course there might be some design flaw that results in some technical non compliance with something that most of us would regard as trivial. Something like a grab rail in the disabled toilet being a few mm too high or too low for example. That would be "safety critical" according to some healthansafety experts, but of little real world importance.

That particular Twitter account has been pulled/deleted/removed since yesterday evening. It was a fairly dormant account with just a handful of tweets - the last before the one referred to above being in January.

Lots of these today...…………………..


09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:09


Facilities on the 09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:09.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10.

Here's one I learnt today. Delay to the 10.00 Penzance to London due to the fact that an IET can't pass a HST at Redruth due to clearance issues!!

And broadly similar today, with about 15 short formations consisting of a 5 car instead of 10 car.
Also several 8 car instead of 10 car, suggesting an HST instead of an IET.

Some, if not all, are enforced by the DfT to release units for driver training. There’s over 40 drivers who have completed the theory but need practical handling but there’s no units available.

In which case why can GWR not just be honest? Because saying it is because of repairs or just "we don't know" (which is the answer I got over the weekend) when they know the actual reason just is not on.

Because revealing the truth would further expose their ineptitude.

When the adverts were telling us how wonderful the new trains would be, perhaps it might have been more honest to state the following.

"Whilst we aspire to run full length trains in the future, initially many services will be of only 5 cars. This is due to staff training, and due to the withdrawal of the old trains before enough new ones are available"

"In order to maximise the number of seats, the new trains have no buffet. Subject to availability of staff we hope to provide a trolley service in at least part of the train. Future aspirations include a wider range of goods from an improved design of trolley. We also hope in future to provide some form of hot snack service in standard class, though more work is required as to how best to achieve this"

And did my crystal ball not forecast regular short formations ? And did not a number of respected members rubbish such predictions as being unduly negative ?
It was widely suggested that I should "wait and see" before offering such criticism. Well I HAVE waited and have now observed routine short formations.

I do not recall speculating in any detail on the reason for short formations, staff shortage, lack of working trains, training or other reasons. I simply based my forecast on observations of other new trains, including class 159s, networkers, and voyagers.
"If short units are available, then they will end up being used on busy services"

Absolutely nails it.

This could be the instruction from the DfT or it’s just the way it’s coded for reporting and attribution purposes.

Not going to happen but perhaps they need an 'under orders from Dft' code.

Except the DfT distances itself from operational decisions. Admitting a level of involvement opens them up to criticism. That’s what they pay private companies to do!!

Even if they are under orders to not blame the DfT, surely there is a code for staff training, or the need for units elsewhere, that better covers this situation? No need to even mention the DfT?

Broadgage is certainly correct in that the transitional phase has been particularly badly managed, regardless of who is to blame.

I have now travelled on about 5 IET services, and apart from the short formations, the worst issue for me has been the wrong announcements that are made in the train and wrong information shown on the internal screens. All 5 journeys have had this problem. Some have come from what I assume is a preset computer system which hasn't been set to the actual journey, so that, for instance on my journey yesterday, the screens showed and the announcements made said that after Reading the next stop would be Swindon, when the train was actually due to stop at Didcot Parkway. The screens also stated that the train would terminate at Temple Meads, when it was actually terminating at Weston-super-Mare. On a previous journey on an IET I made just from Temple Meads to Bath Spa, the announcements started to announce our arrival at Bath Spa before we got to Keynsham, and then started announcing that the next stop would be Chippenham just after we had gone though Keynsham.

The problem with all of this, is that many travellers will be left thoroughly confused, and some may well get off at the wrong station. It's not as if we don't get any tourists on this line, and if I heard this sort of misinformation as a first time traveller, I might well make a bad mistake, and even if not, would be put off from using the service again.

What is going on with the communications system that has meant issues like these still seem to be happening all the time?

That issue has been reported by all staff and Hitachi are working on it. The onboard system doesn’t recognise all the headcodes so the system is setup using a generic route, none of the generic routes have Didcot as a calling point!

How can they not have Didcot as a calling point?

Apparently another issue is the system gets confused when it loses its GPS “fix” while passing through tunnels.  Hence why after the tunnels at Twerton on an up service it gets out of sync with regard to the Bath Spa station stop.

That would explain the confusion around Keynsham, as the train would have passed through the long tunnel at St Annes after leaving Bristol. But was this not an issue in HSTs? I don't remember it being one, and if not, how have we ended up with a worse system in these new trains?

Sadly, a number of aspects of the information systems seem embryonic at present.  Missing data is wrong; wrong data is a nightmare, and whereas regular passengers can just laugh it off,  those occasional and new users who have been tempted to try the train can be seriously mislead to the extent of having their journey disrupted - but then someone may be asking "does it matter if we loose customers, as the 5 car trains can't cope anyway, let alone the capacity issues during engineering"

The positive news is that is the systems are indeed embryonic, they may well be born and grow up into a very nice child provided they have loving and thoughtful parent.

HSTs don't have automatic announcements so the issue doesn't arise.

Another classic, travelled on the 0648 from Weston to Paddington yesterday morning
Nice seat reservation in coach H, got to the train only to find there was no coach H !!

Turned out the train should have been a 10 car set, but was replaced with a 7 car HST

Which in turn meant there were no seat reservations anywhere on the train - starting the ensuing confusion at every stop up to Paddington

I've just read that there's no little cycle logo to identify which door to put bikes in on the IETs, and that this is because Hitachi refused to allow it as part of the vinyl wrap. Can this really be true?
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where

Presumably no one could have foreseen the lack of a GPS signal in tunnels ?

Don't you have to have a reservation to carry a bike on the new trains though? And wouldn't that reservation tell you which carriage to put the bike (and if it doesn't, it should!).

The train itself is pre-fitted with ETCS, so it must have odometers as well as balise communicators. GPS is pretty well universal, though not compulsory. So what is meant to happen before ETCS is for the odometers to be used between valid GPS fixes. However I don't imagine the ETCS funtion has even been tested, given the lack of balises to talk to, so I wonder how much else has been isolated by software sticky tape.

I presume the heavyweight software (traction and safety-critical stuff) was done mostly in advance, and probably in Japan, while the more superficial functions that have to interface with GWR's systems were done locally. Most of that can't be written until the shore systems are known, as it only does anything when they pass on the data.

With no actual information at all, I just know that the necessary specifications of the data and interfaces involved in PIS, reservations, etc. were handed over to Hitachi late, incomplete, inconsistent, partly wrong, and when they first tried their SW it didn't work and there wasn't time to sort it before first use in service.

Yes to the first part.
No to the second part. Presumably because it's just a space you've reserved, not a particular space, and unlike seats, where there are five or more carriages each with fifty or more seats, there are only a small number of cycle spaces all in one place. Or maybe in two places on the 5+5 IETs.

This is an odd one at Temple Meads, as you come up the steps to Platforms 13/15 there is a sign telling people with bikes to wait by this sign and bikes will be carraiges H and J, but oddly those carraiges are never near this sign

Not seen anyone wait by this sign yet but assume some must otherwise it would have been removed by now?

New edition of Modern Railways has the latest data on the Cl 800. Ending Period 13 2017/18, whenever that is.

Unit miles 313456 wit total of 17 units. 43 TIN, technical incidents. Current miles per TIN 7289.7 moving annual average for Mile per TIN 3892. So the mileage has nearly doubled over the last 4 periods, with TINs halved; so making progress.

Period 13 on the railway is the last of 13 x 4 week periods up to the end of the financial year.  So in this case effectively most of March 2018.

Paul

Losing "sync" on announcements on trains or buses, is a pain, and potentially more so for the visually impaired.

Will the bike logo problem be solved when somebody vandalises the train and they have to re-finish the carriage.

GWR responds
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where (http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where)
no timescale given

Doesn't directly answer the original point that Hitachi had for some reason refused to allow the cycle logos on the doors, but the fact that they're having it added does make it even more unlikely than it seemed originally. So why wasn't it there from the beginning? I know they did put some thought into the bike spaces (I know someone who was involved in the original consultation) but it seems they somehow overlooked the signage.

Really? So the quote GWR have given - "the location of the bike reservation (ie where in the train you have been allocated a space), is clearly marked on that reservation" is a lie then?

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be some kind of indication on the outside of the train too. But if the reservation does say which carriage (which is what GWR are claiming, I can't verify as I have never had to get one) then its not THAT big of a deal.

Away from signs on the train to those on the platform.   If they bring in any more variants they'll need to put up a new pole at Teignmouth - this one is full!

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/tgmsign.jpg)

Love it. Are you sure it's not the signs holding up the roof?

How about a single sign "4 cars or longer?   Stop here!"

An example from 10:58 Reading to Weston yesterday. Train was busy, only a single 5-car set. Two cyclists with reservations find one of the two spaces is already taken. Reservation system appeared not to be working/indicating. Platform staff attitude appeared to be "just get on". So two full size bikes in the vestibule, both had straight handlebars, which have trouble fitting into the bike space at the best of times. Fortunately the train manager couldn't get down the train, as the computer compartment opposite the bike space was open, and just managed to take the Brompton.  From Didcot it was full and standing, Swindon and beyond they probably left another 5-car set's worth of passengers standing on each station. Train emptied at Bath!

A dozen single 5 car units instead of 5+5 already announced for today.

Apologists for the new DMUs will no doubt explain that this is not the fault of the wonderful new trains, but is due to the unforeseen need to release some units for training, or some other reason.
They may well be correct, but as with other rolling stock replacements, the end result for the passenger is that new trains are shorter.

All of a sudden the reason for the "Famous Five " advertising campaign becomes clearer.

Yes that awfully timed advertising campaign has reared its head again across social media. You’d think they’d just drop it until they can sort themselves out as it does is give frustrated passengers a chance to make comments about how bad the service is. Hardly effective way to promote yourself when end users tell potential users how poor the service is.

The replies on Twitter gave a good indication of their customers thoughts. I have to agree though in that I wouldn't try any weekend leisure travel with GWR at the moment and they are just setting themselves up for criticism.

Well, that is still better than a single longer train that's not available for some reason. But for someone who's an irremediable glass-half-empty type, you see what you see.

When I was in Reading recently, an IET came through P9 on what was obviously a training run to Cheltenham, and that was 2x5 car units. Now, it might have been doing tests or training specifically of how to operate a train that long on that route. But ...

Nope, I think it is a fair comment which reflects the contrast between what was promised with much fanfare by GWR, and the reality of what is being delivered.

From Rail Magazine (https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/great-western-railway-running-late-on-five-car-iet-acceptance)


At last  :D .  Will be good to start seeing trains you can walk through, "full length" trains that can all fit in at Bath Spa, and trains that don't need two train managers or equivalent.   But I do note this is two more "where to wait on the platform" possible combos, and whether the buffer trolley will be able to get all the way through enough times.

It should be an improvement, but my natural cynicism leads to a suspicion that two new trains will result in the withdrawal of THREE old ones.
I cant see  the trolley making it through the whole train in a reasonable time. I think that the original plan was to provide two trolleys on full length trains, but I presume that this has now become a future aspiration rather than a promise.

Well, you certainly wont find me celebrating this latest milestone.

It's been over four decades since the HST's entered regular service, and many still sing their praises today. I suspect it wont take as long as that before their god-awful usurpers are seen for what they are - The most ill-conceived and biggest failure of a passenger rolling stock replacement programme in UK railway history.

I agree.
Almost no one outside of these forums and the rail industry regards the new DMUs as an improvement over HSTs.
And a lot of customers don't realise that the down grade is PERMANENT  or at least for several decades.
I am aware of several people who have travelled on the downgraded units without realising that these are the future. A common view is that "a local train has been sent instead of a an intercity train"
The absence of reservations also gives the impression of a local train being used.
A lot of passengers are also expecting the buffet car to open once enough staff are available ! This being based on the GWR announcements "we regret that catering is not available. This is due to staff shortage" to the average customer, this implies that there IS a buffet but that staff shortage prevents it being used at present.
Voyager mark 2, but at least they don't smell as bad.

In anticipation of the deal with drivers to operate some IET trains under DOO conditions going through early next month, training using 'shadow passenger trains' will begin next Monday running between Paddington and Didcot/Oxford and calling at Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading.  Not sure whether that will have a further impact on fleet availability?

The RMT is currently in dispute with GWR over the trains being allowed to run DOO, despite having known that was GWR's intention for an awful long time, and despite the original intention of GWR to operate the trains over all routes with the driver in control of the doors changing as a result of union pressure.  Trains will only run DOO on routes where DOO is currently authorised (so, for example Paddington to Oxford/Bedwyn services) and GWR maintain more Train Managers will be needed and not less.  The RMT fears that Train Managers will, over time, then not be required on ALL trains operating on DOO routes (so for example on a Paddington-Swansea train between Paddington and Didcot), and they also fear that, over time, DOO authorised routes will expand further so threatening their membership.  We'll see how this one shapes up in the end!

A lot more "Famous Five" (instead of 10) today...……………..

06:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 07:44
06:48 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:12
07:12 Taunton to London Paddington due 10:14
07:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 09:20
08:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 10:21
09:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 12:00
10:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:43
10:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 13:43
10:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 13:01
12:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:08
12:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:14
13:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 16:41
14:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 17:30
14:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:42
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:40
17:15 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:20
17:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 20:32
18:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:44
18:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 22:32

So much for the various assurances that there would be plenty of stock, and that all rush hour services would be 5+5, or 9 car.

Attracting some media attention this morning......seems like a group of journalists got left behind on the platform when their short formed train rolled in packed to the gunwales & they were unable to board.

This was published on the WNXX Forum.  A snapshot of allocations today, 13 June 2018.


The NPxxx numbers are the allocated train diagrams for the day.  So, out of 36 available sets, only 26 are actually in service today.

I make that 5 circuits running round short formed.

Yeah you can see the headlines now 8 carriage trains replaced by 5 carriage trains.

This is very depressing from every angle. I noted some time ago that the commuters from Yatton would not be pleased that their 'increased capacity' would in fact turn out to be decreased.  Others on the forum thought it didn't matter as there wouldn't be that many people travelling between Weston and Bristol.  That's not been my experience.  Six months into the 'brave new world' of better trains and exhortations to be patient as things settle down is a long time for the daily commuter to be passive. 

I am anticipating using one of these services soon as the first train on my 'rover week' and wasn't sure if it would be an IET.  The knowledge that it might be a short formed IET does not bode well for a pleasant start.  I wonder if anyone here is monitoring the daily shortfall in supplying working IET units for the diagrams planned (and promised)?

My decision to spend most of the week in Scotland could be a good one although they have their own electric train shortage issues of a different nature up there.

On a technicality: "available" has a specific meaning in the franchise agreement and the MARA, where 32 units are to be available to GWR. I presume (not having seen it written anywhere) that Hitachi could add extras to their fleet if reliability isn't good enough, so 36 is the minimum supplier's fleet size.

Since one unit is in GWR service though not carrying passengers, and five units are shown against a depot name,  I expect that means these are available to GWR (making the total of 32 as required) but have not been called up.

Thanks STUVING.  I have asked elsewhere if the IET Diagrams are published anywhere.  I have seen the Winter 2017-2018 ones.

My evening SMS informs me that the 17:30 will be 5 not 10. One to avoid.

As predicted by my crystal ball. I based this prediction not on any detailed study of fleet size or demand, but simply on previous introductions of new trains.

So what, in simple terms is behind the failure to run full length trains ?
Have Hitachi failed to provide what they promised ? In which case are they paying the price for this failure ? or is there some wiggle room ?

Or are GWR failing to utilise the trains fully and leaving them in the depots ? If so why ? It cant be lack of drivers because if a driver is available for a half length train, they presumably could drive a full length train.
It does not look like lack of duplicate train managers, since that has previously resulted in a full train but with half locked out of use.

On a more positive note, chat (stolen from) elsewhere suggests 9-car IET entered service in the Cotswolds yesterday.

(click on the below to make it more legible!)

Cool. 1W02 is my usual evening service, I look forward to seeing how a 9-car unit operates.

800304 formed the 1722 up the North Cotswolds yesterday as noted in the NC thread, yes.

There are many reasons in the supply contract with Hitachi why a set may get rejected by GWR, or Hitachi can fail to have enough sets ready. GWR get compensated for fewer sets than agreed being available/fully prepped.

A busy (and overcrowded!_Friday for "Famous Fives" everywhere...…………

04:33 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington due 06:26
06:00 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central due 09:42
06:48 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:12
07:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 09:20
07:30 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:32
07:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 11:00
09:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 12:00
10:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 11:43
10:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour due 13:52
12:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 13:44
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central due 14:21
12:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 14:08
12:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 14:14
14:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:14
14:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 17:42
14:56 Cardiff Central to London Paddington due 17:02
15:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 16:40
16:45 London Paddington to Swansea due 19:46
17:15 London Paddington to Carmarthen due 21:20
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton due 20:31
18:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 21:31
20:29 Swansea to London Paddington due 23:37
21:28 Taunton to London Paddington due 00:31
22:15 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 00:03

All I can say after looking at that list thank goodness no IETs are diagrammed on routes to the SW yet with the busy summer season now upon us. Hopefully they will start with 9 carriage IETs and not 5 carriage. Sadly I don't think that will be the case. Hope I'm wrong.

Just a small point.  If the trains from Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour listed above are composed of 5 coaches then this is actually an increase over the previous norm of 3. Further, if they are IETs, this would be an upgrade on the promised Turbos.

On the other hand if that's a list of cancellations, I would consider it a downgrade.

I believe its just simply a list of short forms in general, Taplow Green was purely highlighting the IET short forms from that list.

With the experiences I have had with 800s I am dreading the 802s coming to the south west. I can see there being riots at Plymouth if a 5 car turns up from Penzance and there is no crew for the 5 car waiting at Plymouth and it has to go forward with 2 units and 5 cars empty. How easy and quick is it to couple and uncouple a pair of 802s as I have not seen any mention of this and how reliable is it? The coupling of two five car 444s at Bournemouth is very slick even with corridor connections somehow I don't expect GWR to equal this.

800305, looking very bright and shiny,  was working the 1421 Paddington to Worcester today.
It looked her long and took up the whole length of platform 4 at Oxford. Are they longer than an 8 coach HST?

I suspect that the list was MEANT to be a list of short formed IETS, and not a list of all short formed trains.
It would seem to contain at least two typos, trains that were probably short formed but NOT IETS.

IIRC, the short formations list earlier contained over 40 trains. Just over 20 IETs half length, and about the same number again of normal short formations mainly on the Cornish branch lines.

Good IET days seem to feature about a dozen short formations, and bad IET days about 20 half length units.

I agree.
And not just at Plymouth, imagine the scenes at Paddington when a 5 car unit turns up for the 18-03 or the 19-03 to Penzance.
And to those who say that it wont happen, experience beats optimistic forecasts !

Voyagers, too short from day one, and still too short many years later.
159s Waterloo to Exeter, too short for at least five years, and some are still too short.
Networkers in South east London, too short from day one and still too short after twenty years of 6 car rush hour trains that were previously 8 car.
First batch of IETs on GWR. largely short formed from the beginning, though will hopefully improve a bit.

So why should the longer distance  IETs be any different ?

The coupling/uncoupling procedure is pretty quick and straightforward, and will get slicker once crews have gotten used to it.