Great Western Coffee Shop

Another weekend of total closure around Reading. Details here: 14-15 October 2017 (https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/reading2017)

Rough summary on the longer distance services: trains from South Wales / Bristol to terminate at Oxford or Didcot, trains from Cotswolds / Cheltenham at Didcot, and from the South West at Theale or Newbury.

Any bets on an overrun into Monday 16th morning which will then affect the first IEP passenger services ?

Fantastic. I'm travelling from Plymouth to Maidenhead on the afternoon Sunday 15th

I know this has to be done in order to get the IETs operating but I feel the short notice and providing no services into London for the whole weekend outside of a holiday period is unacceptable. How many people, based on the timetable that was online that services were operating to London, have booked journeys to/from London only to find their journey will considerably longer and possibly involve a bus?

Will Chiltern be running extra/longer services to cope with the extra passengers trying to get to London? I notice GWR aren't promoting people changing at Oxford for London on the info page highlighted by didcotdean though Journey planners wil reflect this once they are updated.

I would imagine Network Rail gave Mark Hopwood an ultimatum that if he didn't allow them to have this entire weekend blockade, there would be no IETs and He needs them running now because of losing HSTs heading to Scotland.

Who could ever imagined back in 09/10 when Lord Adonis announced the electrification of the GW mainline what a complete balls up it has turned out to be.

As people are being advised not to travel, presumably those with Advance tickets will be able to change them at no cost?

Sort of. GWR are suggesting:

Another shining example of customer service from Mark Hopwood.  Never mind that we ran trains via Bicester only a couple of weekends ago, we can't be bothered to pull out the stops to do so again this time.  

I noticed at Paddington today the screens were referring to the closure with the title "emergency electrification", which raised my eyebrows somewhat.  Though it appeared to have been changed to something more appropriate by this afternoon.

The additional platform opened at Theale for when work at Reading closed the station is proving to be useful again.

I can only think it would be because of obtaining pilots for the running between Oxford and Marylebone. However, I'm sure GWR will be well compensated for this late notice work so could send an SOS to drivers offering to reward them handsomely for offering to pilot that weekend.

It's also more grist to the mill for those politicians trying to defend the cancellation of electrification schemes. It's hard to argue against the "save you all the inconvenience and disruption" argument when NR contrives to add so much at short notice.

.......would you believe it? This is from GWR Twitter.

"Hi Neil. Yes, Advance Tickets can be amended for a £10 admin fee and difference in price to the next available ticket. - Jordan"

I don't think that is correct when you can get a refund:


Though that's not talking about changing the ticket, you could claim a refund and book a new ticket once the revised times/tickets are uploaded to the Journey planner.

Yes, but this close to the date the price would undoubtedly be much higher, and I shouldn't be out of pocket, especially when I'm already being inconvenienced by the incompetence of the railways.

If you still want to travel you should be able to travel on an earlier train which gets you to your destination no later than the original time.  That's what I would do and good luck to anyone who tried to tell me otherwise on board.

But really, GWR should clarify this on their website and also email anybody who has bought a ticket (and get the other train booking sites to do so).

Travelling earlier doesn't work for me, I've got family arrangements.  I'm simply trying to transfer my ticket to a train on the following day, in the circumstances you would have thought it's the least they could do.......(and I booked via their website but I'm not expecting an email. Remember GWR don't do customer service).

Agree. GWR are unable to honour the booking, so you should have maximum flexibility as to what you want to do at no additional cost, whether that be leave earlier, change day, or cancel.

What GWR put in their website should cover you TG and anyone else who chooses to travel at a different time because of this late notice shutdown:


The more I look at what GWR have so far put out about this, the more I think they need to make things clearer for those who have already bought tickets. It really needs to say your ticket will be valid to travel before the weekend (Friday) and after the weekend (Monday)

How many people who have booked tickets are going to turn up next weekend expecting a through train to London or vice versa to find that's not the case because they aren't aware of things happening on the railways like most on this forum?

It's quite clear now that what was meant to happen two weeks ago during the last closure didn't.

Mark Hopwood needs to come out and apologise on behalf of the rail network for the way all this is being handled instead of leaving it to his front line staff to sort out passengers next weekend who were expecting a train to/from London.

Not a good way to end 'Customer Service Week'. Who on earth comes up with these barnpot ideas when customer well being is well down the priority list no matter what companies say. Profit always comes first.

Out of curiosity, how much training would each driver need to learn the route between Oxford and Ruislip/Ealing? And could it be desk based?  I'm not thinking that every driver would need route knowledge. Just a small pool that could take over for the section between Oxford and Paddington. (Though I'm conscious that with a journey time of around 1 1/2 hours, each driver could only do two round trips, so that small pool wouldn't be quite that small to allow 2 tph to run throughout the day.)

Expensive. And to train means during wirking hours, so fewer available to do what you're already expecting them to do....drivextrains rather than them be cancelled. You can't have both

You'd probably need a couple of weeks to learn that route, especially if you were looking at learning Marylebone as well.  There was talk about it a couple of years ago, but I guess it's not going to happen now that there are only a limited number of possessions remaining before Crossrail and electrification works are completed, and it will not be needed often, if at all, after that.

I would hope that GWR are planning blanket announcements about this closure next weekend across social media etc. Its not even on the front page of their website. If it wasn't for didcotdean flagging it up that it had been added to the reading2017 page we'd all be none the wiser.

Waiting until the revised times are uploaded to the journey planner before going public?

If the Famous Five (as currently shown on the front page of the GWR front page) were planning to go to London next weekend, I don't think they would be very impressed with their journey involving a rail replacement bus. Again, why some of us questioned why GWR were going ahead with a major marketing campaign before the new trains were in service.

Gosh that's much more than I would envisaged for a fairly straightforward route (assuming Marylebone wasn't needed). Clearly that wouldn't be possible given the short notice or viable. Out of curiosity why would it take so long?

... and another example of NR's positive contribution, it appears that the Future engineering work part of the NR site has now completely died. Never mind just waste time looking at multiple sites.

I'm only guessing, but two weeks would equal about 16-20 trips in each direction which would be about right I'd have thought, based on other routes.  You wouldn't need to learn too much information about the stations, but it's quite a long route (about 70 miles if you include Marylebone) and although it looks easy, don't forget there are multiple speed changes and sections of bi-directional running.

An alternative is to hire in pilot drivers to route conduct. That's what's happened for previous diversions via South Ruislip and Old Oak Common Junction.

Off them enough, even at this late stage and I'm sure you would have plenty of volunteers prepared to give up a weekend to provide GWR's customers with a better service rather than leaving them short at Didcot/Theale to board a replacement bus to Slough.

My freight driving friend would certainly do it again. And his home depot is Tyne Yard!

I suspect NR won't pay whatever figure is needed for how ever nany pilots.

Anything on at Wembley Chiltern might be running an intensified service for?

No let GWR's passengers pay the price instead. Which leads me to ask the question, how long did NR/GWR know that they were going to close the line through Reading down for this entire weekend?

Not long enough for the amount of planning needed to get everything into place? It can't be done in a short time

Spurs are playing Bournemouth at Wembley on 14 October. Apart from a general capacity issue this means that the Oxford services after the game will have more stops than usual (Northolt, the Ruislips, Haddenham) meaning a journey from Marylebone to Oxford takes over an hour and a half.

There is also this note which covers the previously announced Sunday morning closure:

Maybe this could be continued for the rest of Sunday.

I think that is very likely

Going to need quite a few additional carriages if everyone from Bristol/South Wales heading to London goes via Oxford.

All tickets valid for 14 or 15 October WILL be valid on either Friday 13 or Monday 16 October.

"Five Get Bustituted Again" - if Enid Blyton were alive today, she'd be turning in her grave.

For the Famous 5 - what a marvellous adventure with japes galore!

On a less rambunctious note, I am scheduled to work in London on the Saturday. I shall be interested(*) to find out how long the bus from Mortimer to Reading, followed by a bus from Reading to Slough and then the train into Paddington will take.

Technically they will get me from A to B and possibly even back to A again, but that's still not likely to be what I would expect for north of nine grand a year.

(*) probably not, really.

A season is paying for Monday-Friday travel, the weekends were always thrown in 'free' as part of the deal.

I respect the fact that many see themselves buying 5 out of 7 days travel though

GWR website reporting that Journey planners should be updated by Thursday 12th two days before the blockade. I'm sure that's a worse case scenario but still not good.

I think it is borderline unacceptable that such a significant change is being made with little over a week's notice. It's certainly messing up my Mum's travel plans to travel from Gt Malvern to Windsor (and back) on the Saturday.

And will GWR be able to source a fleet of replacement buses and drivers at short notice?

I am also struggling to find information about Christmas engineering work on their website, or indeed anything beyond 10 November. I looked on the main engineering work page (https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering). In the end I had to look on the National Rail website to get any information about the service over Christmas (although it was afterwards it occurred to me to use the journey planner ;D)

Christmas page is here: www.gwr.com/christmas2017

My guess is this weekend was always in the project Plan as a contingency for September, a Project on this scale would have at least one if not 2 contingencies in its programme.   Large blockades like these are not just dreamt up overnight, in an emergency putting a block in place or extending a possession can be done but this is bigger than that so would have been in the plan somewhere.

Perhaps its a breakdown in communication somewhere in the complex mix or NR Projects, NR Contractors, NR Route, NR Ops, ToC's n FoCs that this was going to happen, its quite easy for things to happen in silos

I've changed my Sunday afternoon PLY-PAD reservation to the 0948 on Monday 16th - no charge.

It may have been planned as a contingency by the project, but it never made it into the EAS as a possession. Planned possessions can be cancelled at short notice, which leaves a TOC with significant costs (no doubt repaid by NR) but screws up customers less than a new closure.

There always were five Sunday morning full closures at Reading  in the EAS (from 24 September to 22 October). After the evidently incomplete work over the weekend in September, two more shorter Sunday possessions were added. It looks as if progress in the first two of those has been so limited that now this new full weekend closure is needed. No doubt after that there will be further adaptations of the work plan - maybe the last Sunday morning possessions will be dropped ... or maybe there will be more, or longer, ones needed.

You may be better off changing at Reading for a train to Waterloo which is unaffected by the blockade. Be interesting once the journey planner is finally updated which route is going to be quickest for you.

I don't know why GWR are not mentioning services are running to Waterloo for customers travelling to London from Reading on the page which gives details of this late notice blockade.

Wise move TG. Glad to see you weren't charged extra.

Looking at this in a bit more detail, it's going to be passengers travelling to/from the Southwest that will be most inconvenienced by this blockade with services starting/terminating at Theale/Newbury with no way of going any further other than on a bus.

Passengers travelling from Bristol and South Wales will have direct services to Oxford where they can change onto a Chiltern train to Marylebone. A longer journey yes but at least still all the way by train.

Feel for those who have bought tickets in Advance, don't hear about this late notice blockade and turn up to find their journey is going to be much longer and may involve a bus.

From NRE:

Ahhh some more late notice engineering work to throw in the mix. Currently showing on Realtime Trains as a service running every half an hour between Reading and Waterloo under the VAR indicator. Depending on when NRE posted what you have posted here stuving will determine whether what's currently showing is now correct or not.

What a way to run a railway.

Somebody might check their journey out on Wednesday so are they going to check again each following day in case things may have changed and then turn up on the day to find their plans have gone all pear shaped.

According to the SWR engineering page it has various alterations but no mention of Reading/Windsor so I'm assuming they are running as planned

Yes, referring to "currently" in something undated is at least unhelpful, if not stupid. Timestamping the items on NRE would also help for their GWR information: they still have an old notice (with London-Oxford trains stopping at Maidenhead) as well as the new one (with London-Oxford trains not running at all).

Revised train/bus times for travel on Saturday 14th are now available to view on Journey planners and sites such as Real Time Trains, Open Train Times etc.

Just one example for you: Bath-London in the main sending you to Vauxhall changing at Swindon for bus to Reading, then train to Vauxhall. Journey time around 3hr40.

OR to Paddington changing at Westbury for a train to Theale, bus to Slough, then train to Paddington. Journey time around 3hr20.

Via Oxford, which would be the way to go to avoid travelling on a bus and only one change, is not showing on Journey planners probably owing to length of journey compared to the examples shown above.

Not showing because they've not lifted the ticket restriction that prevents travel via Oxford as a valid route.

2H35 typically, changing @ Swindon & Oxford (services from Bath terminating @ Didcot). So an hour quicker, but unless they raise an easement, very few, (possibly deliberately owing to capacity, even if Chiltern ran full length, 7car trains) will realise

Services at xx.13 past the hour from Bath are running through to Oxford with services at xx.43/46 to Didcot.

Good point about the ticket restriction. I'm sure that will change next week otherwise why would GWR run services from Bristol/South Wales through to Oxford if not to connect with Chiltern services to London?

Limited turning capacity at Didcot??

It would still be a bit perverse not to allow travel via Oxford, particularly if trains are terminating there and there is then a through service to London. 

And what as Crosscountry doing? Their own site says:

Oddly, that doesn't actually say what trains they are not (or are) running where. Terminating at Didcot means that XC will monopolise platform 4, GWR use 3 and 5 (one for each route). Platforms 1&2 are not being used, for some reason I can't see - no possession booked.

The NRE page covers both XC and GWR, but the XC content is only:

No mention there of the buses to Basingstoke - of course GWR are running some of them too. And with that closure to the south, at Basingstoke SWR will have buses to Eastleigh as well.

Journey Planner offers a journey time if just under 5 hours from Cardiff to Paddington instead of 2, with 3 changes.
Train to Swindon (Swansea to Oxford) running via Gloucester, bus to Reading and then another bus to Maidenhead, changing to a train for the last straight.

Birmingham-Southampton is possible by train ( on "current" information  ::) ) with a change at Bristol Parkway, as the Cardiff-Portsmouths are starting at Parkway.

A few minutes slower than via the Didcot-Southampton bus...

Couple of details that seem different to the original summary:

Trains from the South West all terminating at Theale (rather than Newbury)
Substitute buses to Maidenhead from Didcot and Theale. Slough additionally only from Theale.

But you have a better chance of getting a seat on the bus ...

Horrendous prospect. I think I'd sooner walk. I'm sure that anyone who is able to will drive instead.

You can be sure that they will not have anything like enough coaches hired for all the people needing them as a result of this farce and that customers will be hanging around for hours at Theale, Swindon, Reading etc waiting to be transported onwards.

I'm just very glad that I'm lucky enough to be able to defer my journey until Monday.......although it's worth bearing in mind that initially GWR were resistant to allowing customers to transfer their tickets without charging them!

...........and to think that there are those who seriously think the railways are a realistic and reliable alternative to road travel.

How does "via Birmingham" look, with Cross Country (Nottingham) service connecting into Virgin West Coast?

I doubt very much whether Virgin would honour any Wales/London tickets.

Platforms 1&2 are not bi directional I believe, only allowing through running not terminating services

The Open Train Times map at http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/swindon would certainly look to support that.

At least an effort is being made with what resources are available. Some interesting schedules for next weekend!

How about Hereford to Swansea via Oxford, Swindon, Gloucester to Newport.  ;D ::)

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V07308/2017/10/14/advanced

Somewhat over two hours with the first departure not arriving into Paddington until ~09:30. So basically that's a no-go for me then.

Is there any provision in the National Rail Conditions of Travel for compensation to passengers when the timetable is ripped to shreds with just seven days notice?

In comparison, the EU261 legislation protects air travellers when the timing of the flight you're booked to travel on is changed up to 14 days before departure.

The National Rail Journey Planner appears to have been updated, showing bus times etc

What is the chance of the work being completed during this weekend ? Or are more weekend closures likely ?

All the displays at Reading yesterday were warning of Sunday morning closures upto November 5th. Nothing was mentioned about next weekends closure.

I arrive at 12:05pm yesterday and it was still barricaded off. I am not sure what time it was supposed to reopen, someone said 12:30, but they actually took the barriers down at 12:20. I was on the 12:45 from Reading to Oxford which was the first local stopper of the day, and that arrived and left on time.

As GWR will move Heaven and Earth to avoid even going so far as to paying for a taxi during times of chaos, (and generally take months to even reply to a request to do so) I very much doubt it!

First non-Wokingham bound train was the 12:27, so I certainly hope it would be before 12:30  :)

Not sure for a delay by a couple of hours though

GWR/NR didn't seem to be shouting about the closure when I went to Windsor on Saturday. Didn't see any notice or hear any announcement at Reading. Although there were clear announcements at Slough on the return journey.

One question springs to mind - how on Earth are they going to secure a sufficient supply of replacement buses/coaches?

Trains returning from the Westcountry are absolutely packed to the gunwhales on Sunday afternoons, hundreds upon hundreds of people with loads of luggage - how are they going to transfer them all swiftly into buses at Theale for onward travel?

(I suspect the answer is - they won't, there won't be anything like enough buses and people will end up waiting around for hours)

Evidence that we have is that when you put on a rail replacement bus, you loose most of your traffic; you do not need to cater for the same numbers.  And if bus timings are poor with long waits and connections, you'll put off all but the most hardy or those who didn't realise that there were changes.

With 6 weeks notice & plenty of publicity maybe, but this is last minute with virtually no publicity so it is fair to assume that a lot of people will turn up expecting the normal service, and not everyone can change their plans at such short notice anyway.

Reading buses are usually very helpful in that respect. They have dozens of spare buses at weekends and with RFC playing away, they have no need for the extra 25+ drivers they use on Saturday afternoons. Usually the longer distance bus rides involve coaches from other operators.

 Fortunately I am able, once again, to boycott GWR this weekend.
 Driving from South Devon to Basingstoke, train to Waterloo. Rail enquiries advise me of
 a good service on SWR.

 I suppose next time the franchise is 'up for grabs' it is too late to offer us in the
 South West the choice of two London Terminals again !

Replacement buses are indeed much easier to source in good numbers on weekends, particularly outside of the summer season.  There’s usually a good number of drivers who fancy a bit of bonus overtime.  It’s short notice weekdays that are the main problem - especially at school run time.

People have been complaining on Twitter re weekend bookings at Hotels with non-refundable booking charge and who now have had their arrangements upset.

edited to move phile's post out of a quote box

Book flexible stays when booking more than a fortnight out. It could just as easily be disruption on the Dawlish sea wall at this time of year!

That's something beyond the railway's control. This late notice work is well within the railway's control. It's GWR's passengers who pay the price and that's unacceptable.

Why should anyone have to? Many people, I'm sure, have booked various events, accommodation and so on in good faith based on GWR/NR stating that they would provide a particular service on a particular day. If that doesn't run due to incompetence of First Group and/or NR, then one or t'other should re-imburse people accordingly.

It's about time a compensation system akin to the European air passengers rights was established for long distance rail travel.

I never understand the exclusion from compensation of things "beyond the railway's control".  It has the superficial appearance of fairness, but so long as the parties know what they are agreeing to when they voluntarily sign the contract then fairness is not really an issue.  Surely in a capitalist market system the priority should be to set up the right incentives to deliver what is needed.  So making GWR or NR pay for Dawlish wall problems or making BA pay for flight delays caused by fog at Heathrow, will incentivise those companies to minimise the disruption caused by incidents even of those incidents are outside their control.  Of course the biggest financial risk to which GWR or any company is exposed is the state of the economy which is completely outside their control.  That isn't unfair.  It is just business.   

It concerns me they haven't been shouting from the rooftops about this work. Yes maybe at stations but unless you are travelling on GWR lines during the week, how are you going to know?

That I would agree with - maybe NR ought to be taking out  some ads?

Ask and ye shall receive Timmer!!  :D :D
Good to see this, just posted in the last 20 minutes on a paper's website in my neck of the woods. I'm sure other local newspapers in your area will be doing the same:
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/news/bath-news/people-urged-check-before-travelling-607767

They have been pushing the message into local newspapers (seen it here in the Oxford Mail online), but I'm not sure what the readership of these is like these days. Also has been pushed out on twitter, but I would say these haven't stood out enough from the day-to-day messages (see below). It isn't even the pinned tweet, which is still 'Five Go on a GWR Adventure'. A very long one if they select this weekend.

(https://i.gyazo.com/127313456e51459369c7bf6b422d9530.png)

Nothing on Facebook.

Just had it confirmed by GWR that their tickets will be honoured by Chiltern between Oxford and London Marylebone over the weekend.

That's good. Question is will annoucements at stations and on-board trains travelling from Bristol/South Wales to Oxford encourage those for London to stay on and change at Oxford or get off at Swindon for bus to Reading/Slough?

Rail tickets will be accepted on the Oxford Bus Company X90 coach to London.

Even just taking into account the comments on the GWR Twitter feed, which tend to be from better informed frequent rail users, the publicity around this weekend's closures has been woefully inadequate.

Sadly, GWR won't put anything about this weekend's work on their Facebook page. Bizarre. Surely you should use every media at your disposal at a time like this.

But that on its own won't mean that the Wales/Bristol - London via Oxford journeys will show up in the planners *unless* they have made a change to the routing guide as well, to allow said journeys.

Meanwhile, Chiltern are saying this (https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/travelling-14-or-15-october) on their website. Already recognising that, even with extra seats, they aren't likely to be enough of them.

I guess that it why there is an arrangement with OBC to use their coach service between Oxford and London, although that will require people to walk to/from Gloucester Green. Although I have only seen this from OBC twitter not GWR!
(https://i.gyazo.com/acdeacdd0bfd824a88e8a3bc7578995b.png)

They weren't when I last checked a couple of days back, could be now though. Will check later. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it will be interesting what is announced at stations and on trains what those travelling from Bristol/South Wales heading for London should do, head to Oxford so train throughout, change at Swindon/Didcot and end up on a bus?

I may have checked myself before I posted that.....doncha think?

At least Cardiff - London is now showing as a change at Oxford onto a train (no buses) for Saturday 14th on the NRE website.

ok, so it's been updated since I checked at lunchtime. good.

I tried a few minutes ago (and failed) to get Marylebone to Melksham when I asked "via Oxford" for Sunday morning ... Got a Waterloo to Melksham via Salisbury set of timings AOK, and even Marylebone to Melksham via Salisbury when I accidentally left the "via Salisbury" in.

No posters at all at Melksham about engineering this weekend - engineering poster runs out tomorrow (13th) and looks ahead to major works later in the month ... but those major works do NOT include this weekend's Reading blockade.

Is it an arrangement, or is it marketing by the Oxford Bus Company looking to demonstrate their product to potential customers - railway keeps the fare.   If it is such a demo, then the separation of Gloucester Green from Oxford Station is a good thing, as it'll be passengers to / from Oxford more than long distance ones who will try the bus.

I guess if all else fails people can spend their time usefully watching the "Famous Five" advert whilst waiting for 3 hours in a queue for a replacement bus?

Good to see the Famous Five have been removed off the first image that appears on the front page of the GWR website to be replaced with a much larger 'Orange army' image and better informed headline about this weekend's work. Should have been done a week ago.

I think you are right that the lack of mention of this by GWR could indicate that this is in reality a competitive initiative by OBC to gain future business on their coaches by in effect giving people a free ride (from their perspective) this weekend. Their message is somewhat ambiguous as to whether it applies to all rail tickets or just ones specifically Oxford-London only.

Then I guess you could then also claim a refund on your rail ticket afterwards as well.

Well done to Chiltern for stepping in at such short notice. I'm sure the taxpayer Network Rail will well compensate them for their efforts in helping to mitigate the inconvenience caused. Gosh they even provide revised timetables pdfs, something GWR stopped doing a long time ago.

From Wales Online (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/trains-south-wales-london-take-13748907) this morning - though I have seen similar wording elsewhere.


My bolding.

To me, the term "emergency engineering work" means that there's a problem such that trains wouldn't be able to run properly within the very short term if the works weren't done.  And I see / hear no evidence for that to be the case. What we have is "engineering works that are part of a longer term upgrade plan added to the schedule at short notice in order to keep that longer term upgrade on schedule".  Of course, that doesn't have a soundbite ring to it. Not sure what I would say to keep it shorter - "Additional unforeseen engineering requirements"?

To me, that term means work scheduled within a couple of weeks of the date, and not in the 'diary' of planned works. ie emergency scheduling was necessary at (very) short notice.

Package on BBC Points West in Breakfast this morning ,which was the first time that I had heard mention of this on the local news, however the works were being referred to as happening at Didcot Parkway
Can anyone shed some light ?.

Not sure whether this has been mentioned back up the thread, but it should be noted that South Western Railway will NOT be allowing travel between Exeter/Salisbury and Waterloo for anybody with Advance tickets from the South West this weekend.

I guess it could be deemed an 'emergency' from the point of view of someone's job if electric services through Reading don't start on time. Though in these days of total lack of accountability for when things go wrong/delays etc, I doubt it.

I was at Paddington on Tuesday evening waiting for the last Cotswold line train of the evening, or rather waiting for the platform announcement to be made, the information points had no information about this at all, the info tv screens were advertising various sunday closures in the bristol and cardiff areas, but not a single screen with the reading closure information, There may have been posters elsewhere but I didn't see any by the ticket office or the two information points (which were unattended)

Not sure about the screens at Paddington but there’s been frequent (and very loud!) announcements about it.

I was wondering when the "big media" (if they still count as that) of the TV and national press would take notice. I was expecting what usually happens; in effect to wait until it's imminent and then say "shock horror chaos - and no notice!". The fact that they would have been the best way to provide that notice earlier doesn't work on them, because it's not new before it is chaos.

BBC South were doing just that this morning, going so far as to say "no trains through Reading as emergency work is announced". That (and the phrase a few days' notice) certainly leaves the impression it was announced yesterday, not a week before. Of course NR has only a limited scope for directly informing the public, since it's GWR who run the trains (or try to cope if they can't) and have the machinery in place for giving that information. Maybe GWR could have got the news out quicker, but I can see that they had a big problem trying to improvise a set of plans and work out at what stage those plans were fixed and could be announced.

There was a guy from NR saying on-screen it was better to screw up this weekend than put off everything that depends on the juice running. But it was a brief quote, with no explanation; it was Paul Clifton who explained it was a mess, and due to the earlier weekend's work not being completed then.

At Reading yesterday there were several posters at the entrance, though just the standard poster-board size, and on walls that are a bit to one side not where you are looking. They are, however, quite eye-catching. But should its headline not say "no trains from Reading to anywhere much"?

There were stand-up boards upstairs on the deck, but they had NR warning posters about the electrics being live. There was also a line of text, only on the platform displays (where it isn't shown most of the time) - but that referred to emergency works and an "amended timetable", which is a bit of an understatement. 

All the best to SWR trying to enforce that one over the weekend unless GWR train managers and stations make it clear to those travelling up from the South West on Advance tickets that they cannot change at Exeter onto a SWR service to Waterloo.

Tensions may be high at some stations this weekend already without telling passengers which trains they can and cannot travel on. I feel for all the staff on the front line having to handle all this over the weekend.

Plenty of managers ‘giving up their time’ to come in and help out at key locations.  I wonder if Mr Hopwood and the exec team are doing the same given the circumstances?  I expect they’ll all be out in force to accept the plaudits of the IET launch the next day!

I hoped they would be to lend support. Gonna need all the boots on the ground they can muster this weekend at key stations.

Should turn out on Sunday and find his train cancelled due traincrew shortage or More trains than usual undergoing repairs.

In response to a tweet from someone asking if there will be enough buses, BBC South Transport Correspondent Paul Clifton replied:

They have already said they can't get enough buses in time. But there will be some

Make of that what you will. For all those who have to travel this weekend, I wish you all the best. For many I'm sure it will work out fine be it a longer journey. For the rest it may be a challenge.

Can I say a big "thank-you" to those of you who have posted about this.

I've been out of the country for the best part of two weeks. The first week was a conference in, of places, Barcelona. Now this conference has a history of being held at the wrong time (over the years it has coincided with Princess Diana, 9/11 and the pound falling out of the EMS during the Minister's keynote address, plus some some lesser events). But the possibility of being in the wrong place as well turned out not to be too bad.

Anyway, I'd decided to have a bit of a break on my way home. I caught a through train from Barcelona to Santiago de Compostela which meandered gently through Pamplona, Vitoria and Leon - good value at €53.75 for a 12:30 ride, in First class. I had a couple of nights in Santiago, and then gently worked my way back along the north coast, stopping at Ribadeo, Leon, Bilbao and Bayonne.

In Santiago (last Sunday) I looked at the Forum for the first time for a week. And encountered the prospect of this weekend's shambles at Reading. Thank you all - without this, I'd've turned up at Paddington at about 16:00 tomorrow only to find that the train would magically turn into a pumpkin coach at Slough. My reputation as someone who understands the vagaries of transport would have been shot.

So, instead of spending the night in London, I'm on Friday night's 19:22 to the Cotswolds, so as to get home before pumpkin time.

This morning I set off on a TGV from Bayonne, down near the Spanish border. 1:47 of diddley-dum to Bordeaux, then it's given 2:08 for the 544km to Paris, which I make to be an average speed of 158 mile/h. We arrive three minutes early.

Cross Paris to Nord, where a Eurostar whizzes me to St Pancras, arriving some 20 seconds late.

And now I'm back in the comfortable world of the Famous Five on the 19:22. We left Paddington 14 late ("waiting for a member of the train crew"). The police were called at Reading (do they ever feature in the Blyton canon?) and we're now 22 late.

But hey, that's much better than being on a coach from Slough to Didcot.

Many many thanks to you all.

I think they cropped up in Five Skim The Tesco Cashpoint Again...

Was that before or after Five get pissed orf at having to use a rail replacement bus ,and start rioting.

To add to the fun ...


In each case, the reason given when expanded is ...

While the front page of the GWR site tells you

Now seem to be running with Turbos rather than electric trains.....rogue carrier bag attack maybe?

Replacement buses already running late, and I note that GWR via twitter is claiming that they contacted everyone who had made bookings this weekend to advise of engineering works. On behalf of myself & at least 5 others that I know of, that is a blatant lie.

Reports of "lots of unhappy people with pre-booked tickets" at one station to the west.   And how on earth could they know to contact people on the (open) return halves of period returns, or on tickets purchased at ticket offices?

Can’t see any Turbos allocated to anything at the moment?

All allocated to 387’s except for one of the ‘fast’ diagrams which is in the hands of a 180.  Four departures seen from Slough confirm that.

Looks like many of the cancellations listed by Graham have now been reinstated, all bar one in fact.

The GWR website certainly looks very misleading with references to "a generally good service" and only about the usual weekend level of short formations, cancellations and other alterations.

An average customer with a ticket from the West to Paddington might conclude that they could travel with no more disruption than a normal weekend.

Surely the front page of the GWR site should say "NO TRAINS TO OR FROM OR VIA READING THIS WEEKEND" in conspicuous red, with a link to the details.

From walking past Didcot Parkway earlier this morning they have cast the net far and wide - I spotted coaches from as far afield as Birmingham, Nuneaton, Uxbridge and Bournemouth although maybe the latter is covering for XC to Southampton.

Especially since XC has managed it. Front page:

(https://i.gyazo.com/412fb6038541b9a75f73c198c0dc0936.png)

I've just had a quick perusal of RTT and I see that 0900 2P14 MAI-PAD was terminated at Southall "due to a problem with the train". Meanwhile over on Chiltern, the 0835 Marylebone-OXF was cancelled together with its return working at 1009 so an hour gap in the service.

That's my normal Friday night train hope you weren't too delayed.

Surely Five get pissed orf at having to use a rail replacement bus (discover the train company couldn't get enough buses and therefore don't have enough seats for all the passengers), have no means of getting to their destination in a reasonable time frame and start rioting?

Ouch! Can't imagine what the scene is like at Oxford right now. Meanwhile GWR's Twitter feed tales of woe are starting to appear  :(

In addition the 09:09 from Oxford to Marylebone had at least one carriage with faulty air conditioning according to a twitter exchange with Chiltern.

Managed to watch Paul Clifton's report from Reading on last night's BBC South Today on i player in which he said that GWR 'are livid' about this late notice work. Well if that's the case then Mark Hopwood needs to break this so called code of not criticising other parts of the railway and come out and say so. He might get a bit more sympathy from his long suffering customers if he did.

PS it was GWR's Dan Panes who said they don't have enough buses when he was interviewed as part of the report.

Mark Hopwood is in a difficult position there as he’s been heavily promoting the fairly recent collaboration agreement with NR suggesting that things are improving as a result, so to take a pop at NR would fly in the face of those claims, so he’s having to be ultra-diplomatic about it.  No doubt he’s seething underneath! 

You also have to question if playing the blame game is a sensible approach given the average passenger won’t care one bit who is to blame, so I can’t see much sympathy being extended towards GWR if he did.

Presumably GWR were confronted with a choice of either this weekend closure or a lot more shorter closures to finish the same test/approvals work. The latter would delay replacing Turbos with 387s, which GWR desperately need to do ASAP to mitigate the Great Rolling Stock Shortage. They might even  see that as the worse option in the longer term - but they are no doubt still livid with NR for their never-ending failures to complete any electrification works on time.

In the meantime he's happy to hide behind the Boardroom door & let his frontline staff face the music without offering a public explanation himself. Not good enough I'm afraid. With the big salary comes accountability. It's not a question of blame, it's a question of being seen to do the right thing.

Even O'Leary had the balls to stand up and openly apologise for the Ryanair disaster.

I think we've discussed that at some length before, and we pretty much all agree that some sort of public apology from him should have been forthcoming.

Still numerous cancellations this evening "due to shortage of train crew", despite requiring far less crew for this weekend than normal

Tweet just now from Chiltern to add to the woes of diverted passengers:

I noticed at Twyford they'd closed the footbridge which I believe is still a public right of way. Be interesting to know how they got that paperwork so quickly as they seem to struggle with other admin.

There were also 'no parking' restrictions on the road the station is on which must have been popular with residents.

On the plus there were plenty of staff and buses around with signs telling you to purchase a rail ticket. As the regular bus service to Reading is much cheaper this seems a bit much.

In years gone by they used to close the old footbridge one day a year (can't remember the date now) to prevent it becoming a right of way.  No idea what the current situation is. 

Why not both him & Mark Carne of Network Rail making an aology together?

Or nire likely, Five go without paying the correct fare?

I think we would have to Mark that down as a non-starter or perhaps more directors than usual requiring essential maintenance.

Carne's the one at fault here...and has an advertising budget!

Cancel the adverts and use the advertising budget to buy some buses instead.
This latest fiasco is not a "one off" but simply the latest in a long series of network rail failures, including the failed re-signalling project around Reading, and of course the failure to electrify anything on time and to budget.

Each time a major failure occurs we hear the cries of "we cant keep a fleet of busses on standby" Well going by the recent performances, a fleet of buses on standby would get a fair bit of use.
I suspect that major electrification failures are going to be a regular feature of the improved railway.

They probably will like they have done in the past by letter. Still, when the first scheduled IET runs on Monday, all that would have gone on this weekend will all be forgotten.  ::)

Why should it be any different to say, the East Coast?

The new system should be better. Specifically, the adoption of the design mantra "mechanically independent registration" should mean that a single fault can be isolated and one track closed, rather than all tracks closing pending repair. We'll see how that goes. 

I went into Reading, and there were just a couple of people getting off the Gatwick train expecting to get on another one. I also had a look at Reading West, which I expected to be closed but wasn't. There was a guy waiting for a train to Waterloo, but obviously he was very unfamiliar with the railways. He wasn't helped by the lack of specific signs saying "no trains from this station ..." - I could only see the wall poster and the same "no trains to Paddington" warning posters as at Reading, which of course do say there are trains to Waterloo.

From the top of Garrard Street car park, you could see some RRVs awaiting a call, and some orange figures hanging about. These guys were (as last time) across from Platform 6, and did have their long pole with them. However, when called into action they didn't use that, just opened one of the isolator control boxes. Incidentally, I referred to those switches as manual before, but perhaps some are remotely operated? I would expect them all to be detected and reported to the ECR, and perhaps the signallers, and of course have a place for padlocks.

While on the car park, two other guys came up with rather impressive cameras. As I went for the lift one was waiting too, but when the lift arrived two officious security staff got out and told him he needed permission to take pictures. They appeared not to have seen me do the same, so perhaps they react to big cameras not small ones or phones. What the two visitors were photographing was the Oktoberfest tent in Station Hill (no connection with with Reading Oktoberfest, which was in September). The guy I saw challenged had a beer stein in his hand, about quarter-full - I'd have thought that was more of a reason to challenge visitors, frankly!

I suspect if there are to be any public apologies they won’t be until after the weekend - just in case the work doesn’t get finished and, heaven forbid, they need another blockade.

Firstly, the east coast scheme DOES fail regularly, particularly in windy weather.
Secondly, whilst the Western electrification LOOKS a lot more robust, I perceive that the ever growing "safety culture" will lead to more shutdowns.
For example, whilst a defective pantograph on a train should only affect one track, the elfansafety may require that adjacent tracks be closed "just to be sure"
Likewise I expect prolonged and wide area shutdowns to protect trespassers from the consequences of climbing electrification structures or adjacent roofs etc.
And we have already seen the chaos resulting from a single pigeon exploding.

Huh - topic might have been total weekend closure of Paddington too. NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER FOR LONG DISTANCE PAX. Hardly any staff on duty - certainly no 'gold braids or suits' in sight, and only ONE info. desk open.

All destinations displayed were either Maidenhead or Heathrow. Why nothing long distance via the Greenford or Chiltern routes or even from Waterloo? It has been done in the past.

No Heathrow Connects were running, so all Heathow pax. HAD to pay the extortionate HEX fares. And even a Connect consist was running masquerading as a HEX. Bet HEX pax. weren't too happy paying top prices to travel on the scummy Connect stock.

Despite most platforms beinf free the ex-Maidenhead locals were frequently berthed at platform 4 etc., where the gates don't accept Oysters or Freedom Passes. Bet there were quite a few penalty charges issued for folks not touching in or out. Another TfL scam.

AND Network Rail in the wisdom that only the truly incompetent of companies can manage decided to do major works in the Clapham Junction and Waterloo areas necessitating cancellations of many services including those to / from Reading.

The utter incompetance and mismanagement - no it must be deliberate - of Network Rail, Great Western, and South Western over this weekend reached new depths of disdain towards its hapless presumably paying passengers, sorry - customers. None of these railcos are fit for purpose.

You obviously haven't read the rest of this topic..... ::)

He tends to copy 'n paste his stuff from uk.railway duscussion group. Might be worth reading threads here rather than simply posting without reading?

I'm sure out of 47 posts over 5 years or so very few have been anything else.   Just a way of widening the audience of his complaints, he hardly ever takes part in an actual discussion...

Paul

Each to their own way of writing, Gentlemen.  For sure, it's appreciated where text is quoted from another source that the source be given, as that avoids confusion and suggestions of plagiarism.  But if someone else's words reflect what you're thinking, an attributed quote is AOK.   Some of us - I used to be this way - find other's words much more expressive of what we're thinking - "I couldn't have put it that well".  But it does need attribution!

---

Moving on ... the 2 day closure of Reading on 16th and 17th September was heavily advertised as a "one time only" requirement, yet we learned very quickly thereafter that the work was not done and there would have to be another attempt.  Does anyone know if "they" are managing to do the work this time yet, or is there the possibility of a further weekend like this one?

Not copying someone else's, Graham, just cross-posting his own, across the two forums. Without reading the thread's posts that have preceded him.

No indication I've heard of over-running, yet. I fancy that that'll be what happens Graham, rather than another weekend this time - it has to be completed to allow the IETs to run tomorrow. So I suspect that they'll work till finished, rather than abandon & reschedule

I don’t think anything has to be completed to allow IEP’s to run tomorrow.  They will be either on diesel from Paddington or changing over between Burnham and Maidenhead as per temporary signage instructions.

Do I assume then that the intent is that the IETs run on electric as far as Didcot tomorrow? If that's the case, why are there further closures through October and early November?

IETs are only cleared to run on leccy between Paddington and Maidenhead. Extension to Didcot is scheduled for January 2018.

Elsewhere they can run at their maximum rated diesel power. 700kW, or 940hp at flywheel, per engine. Testing has shown that they can easily keep to HST timings.

No, as far as Maidenhead (or is it Reading?). Didcot comes in early January, along with 387s as far as Didcot. Incomplete would, as II says, mean dieslel all the way from PAD, with more fuel usage.

That was my understanding but the comment about having to be completed to allow the IET's to run tomorrow seemed to imply otherwise.

My understanding is that - provided the line is handed back before 06:45 - the IET could run tomorrow in passenger service, whether or not works were completed. Sure it'll be on diesel power most (if not all) the way.  The works are preparatory for the electric 387 service to Didcot in January that releases more 165 and 166 units.

Follow up question was "They didn't finish last time and needed another possession.  Are they doing better this time, or is there the chance of another Reading blockade?"

There are Sunday morning blockades for the next three weekends currently showing on GWR's Planned Engineering page.

I suspect my earlier post is incorrect above, sorry JohnR. Of course, even if this work completes on time, tomorrow's IETs will only run s far as MAI on the juice.

Where does anyone think the best place to witness the dropping of the pantographs might be?

From the end of Taplow platforms at the Maidenhead end (with a long zoom lens!).   No bridges are handily located sadly, so it’ll not be easy to witness close-up.

I think, reading back through the discussions, that Timmer's original point was that positive PR about the successful first IET runs would probably take the focus off discussion of the short notice closure, not that the latter was a pre-requisite for IET to run...

Paul

Indeed with this mornings new posts, mostly about IET, I found my previous post in this thread way back at the bottom of page nine in the "recent posts" display.   Yesterdays news already...

Paul

Bumping the topic again for you Paul ...  ;D

I've been to Melksham and Westbury Stations today ... both displaying engineering posters up to 13th October, and also forward looking posters about sunday morning Reading blockades and about the Severn Tunnel.   Not a word about the weekend that's just gone (but why should there be now?) and certainly nothing to tell me about any other changes during this week or for next weekend.

I think 14th and 15th October are like Boxing Day ... very poor show that there are no trains, but let's ride out the storm and people will forget about it.  Maybe so ... but it would have been really good to have had posters up at places effected.   Questioning now would / will be me with "but it's over / nothing we can do.  Look at our wonderful new trains", and the heavy flow of posts here indicates that actually people are looking at the sparkling new trains.    Frankly, I'm as bad ... I'm working of stuff that's forward - what's been and gone has gone; potential learning lesson, but no use crying over spilled milk.

So having changed my travel plans due to the last minute weekend shutdown I got the 0853 from Plymouth back towards Paddington today - clearly a lot of people had the same idea and it was full and standing from Taunton, probably earlier in fact.

I guess it would be useful to know if all the required works were completed over the weekend, having clearly not been when they were originally scheduled, or are we going to have another weekend over the next few weeks where everything grinds to a halt at short notice.

From what I hear, the replacement bus experience was not, on the whole, a pleasant one.

I asked. From GWR (Twitter)

Since we have not yet seen hide, hair, nor millivolt of the "improvements" expected from that work, I don't see how that statement can be meant literally. Is it perhaps a new meaning, never seen in the wild before, where "improvements" means "closures and other disruption for work on improvements"

We may not have seen "hide, nor hair nor millivolt" of the improvements, but some people have seen charred feathers from the famous exploded pigeon, does that count ?