Great Western Coffee Shop

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/02/27/anger-as-valleys-rail-coaches-moved-to-england-91466-20528207/ (http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/02/27/anger-as-valleys-rail-coaches-moved-to-england-91466-20528207/)

That over the bridge are not a happy bunch. Bloody Firstgroup!

See also link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1862.msg13679#msg13679

Get over it  ::)

Is that a violin I hear?? :D

I think the Welsh forget that the Cardiff to Portsmouth service is important to their economy!

Tell me how one meandering two car train an hour wandering through rural Somerset/Wiltshire/Hampshire is important to the Welsh economy.  I don't see much freight on it.

Especially as compared to the 12 or so Valleys Lines trains per hour which travel each way through Cardiff Central.

Nor do I see how confiscating 5 ATW Sprinters is fairly spreading the load.   If you think services are crowded in Bristol, try a rush hour train to or from Treherbert.

And also the Maesteg-Cheltenham train can be overcrowded at rush hour too especially the 17.21 from Cardiff-Maesteg. This service is usually 2 carriage 158.

People are upset because 42 station platform extensions have taken place, new signalling installed and additional passing loops built and then half the stock to run it has been subleased to FGW: for a year so the investment (i.e. our taxes) is partially unused. See if you can imagine that applying to your local service without feeling the tiniest tingle of annoyance.

It is possible to please everybody, but that includes having governements invest in appropriate levels of rolling stock.

I'm genuinely glad that the Cardiff - Portsmouth service has got extra stock and that the ex Wessex services are being sorted out, it was a total disgrace- but please avoid getting in an "us and them" type debate. We all live in the United Kingdom and we all deserve a decent rail service.

Daniel

PS...please note the 150s are "subleased", not "confiscated". I wouldn't be at all suprised if first group is having to cough up an AWFUL lot for this deal.

DanielP,
You have good points but imagine what we felt when Wessex had done so much work getting 3-Car Class 158 units on the Portsmouth-Cardiff services then for FGW to reduce them to 2.
What about when overcorwding had actually been limited on the network and then we gave you some of our 150 units in brilliant condition.(You are giving us a lot worse)
And when we had to give 12 brilliant 158 units to be replaced by 142's meaning many long distance services have 150 units when ATW have 158's on pretty much everything over an 1 1/2.
We have it bad aswell.

In fairness though that was FGW fault for reducing the Portsmouth-Cardiff service down to 2 Car not ATW!  ;)

ATW do use 158's or 175 on all long distance journeys but thats how it should be IMO.

I actually wasn't complaining about ATW just saying that we have had services downgraded also.
Alos, ATW wll not have downgraded services, they just won't be upgraded, what we had was worse, just trains removed.

Yeah, I can remember initial comments suggested that Card to Soton would be 4 car 158s just before FGW started (har har!). That should still happen IMHO, it should have the same kind of capacity as the Salisbury - Exeter route, even.

The Wessex franchise was calously stripped of its rolling stock in a way that I hope is never seen again! I kind of like 142s in a funny sort of way (like marmite!), though I couldn't live with them if they didn't have chapman seats (like ATW's)- that will be the only component worth saving when they do (eventually) scrap the little tikes. What really depresses me is that my three year old son is likely to be 15 when that happens!!!!! Please someone pull their finger out before then!!!!

The thing about the Arriva transfer is that new infrastucture is in place, there's just not enought trains to use it properly.

dont you mean qprrule 11 brilliant units and 1 crap one as i seem to recall 865 was a pile of poo

IMO All 158's are better than any other west fleet train.
Even 865.
Giv them a proper refurb, major techincal attention, new seats and you have got a brilliant train.
IIRC most Wessex 158's had working Air Conditioning, better than any other 15x or 14x other than 159.

Correction, soon to be 3 car trains wandering through England to Wales, English taxpayers pay enough towards Wales and Scotland improvements, are we forgetting the 150's that went to Arriva shames wales 18 months ago???

863 was the worst but Scotrail had that heap pretty soon after FGW took over!

Yes we all do deserve a decent rail service

But if you want to say we all live in the UNITED Kingdom - do away with the welsh assembly (and the scottish parliament who are worse BTW)

May be straying off topic but you cant be UK for somethings and welsh for others

Besides, im sure being crammed into a carriage for half an hour is more bearable than 3 and a half hours?

Devon Metro, see my previous post on Valley lines journey times.

The WAG is only serving the same purpose that a PTE (or whatever they are called now) serve around Manchester etc. There should be something similar for the South West, but there isn't- this is why there is no Bristol commuter network (like there should be) and why stock could get transferred away in the way it did.

How so worse? They both choose to spend money on reopening railways and expanding capacity. It is precisely because England is still under the dead hand of the Treasury that nothing of this kind is happening here.

In most of the rest of Europe, regional/local government has far more power than in the UK, particularly with regard to things like transport, because they know far better than someone who never ventures beyond the capital city what local needs actually are.

Mookiemoo, I recall that you travel to Munich for work on occasion. The high-quality public transport system there is not the creation of a ministry in Berlin, it is the result of decisions made in the city itself and by the Bavarian regional government.

Closer to home, it's obvious no-one from the DfT went on a Portsmouth-Cardiff train before deciding they could be run with two coaches instead of three, they just looked at some out-of-date passenger figures at their desk in London and signed it off.

Compare the quality of rail services in the handful of former metropolitan counties in England, which still have dedicated cross-boundary passenger transport authorities with a degree of autonomy over spending and some political clout, with what's on offer around say Bristol or Southampton/Portsmouth. But even in the PTA areas the Treasury has blocked a series of tram system plans.

We need more decentralisation in England, not less, with a slimmed-down UK government that actually trusts people to get on with deciding what's best for their area and region instead of constantly meddling.

Calm down!

LM 150s will soon sort everybody out,  ;D if they still work!  >:(

About the WAG/SNP:

*They are good because they invest in rail. :)

*But it is unfair. >:(

Yep, quotes in the fault book included:
"Send this heap of crap back to where it belongs"
"Has this unit ever done more than 75MPH"

If the trains between Cardiff and Portsmouth were longer with some space for more passengers more of the residents of Cardiff and South Wales would travel into England and Spend their Money in England, hence affecting the Welsh economy.