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Title: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: SandTEngineer on December 12, 2017, 19:08:07 Oh dear....https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/research-publications/publications/advance-notice-rail-engineering-works-correspondence/
Quote Advance notice of rail engineering works – correspondence 11th December 2017 Transport Focus keeps a close eye on the rail industry’s obligations to ensure timetable changes are made at least 12 weeks in advance (T-12). This helps passengers make sensible plans, stops them buying more expensive tickets than they need and avoids them being surprised by bus replacement services. However, we have seen some examples recently in which this obligation is not being met. Our chief executive Anthony Smith wrote to Great Western Railway’s managing director, Mark Hopwood, and Network Rail’s Western Route managing director, Mark Langman, seeking their commitment to improve things. Separately, we are working to improve things for Great Western passengers. We also wrote to the Rail Delivery Group about a drive to improve T-12 across the board. You can read these letters, and a response from GWR and Network Rail, below. There are links to the documents (help again CfN......) I nearly got caught out by this. I was trying for weeks to book a cheap ticket for my daughter but the prices quoted were obviously full fare, so I waited. I checked the GWR website virtually every day for 8 weeks with no change to the train times or fares. Then suddenly the updated fares were published at T-3 and I got a ticket for her at more than a fifth of the full fare price (£230 full: £42 Advance) Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: grahame on December 12, 2017, 19:13:47 There is an obligation to notify timetable changes 12 weeks ahead - I understand. But is there such an obligation on when advance fares are put on sale? They're not a regulated product and I understood that train operator can choose what availability the offer when. For sure there's a convention - but obligation?
Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: didcotdean on December 12, 2017, 19:28:04 The phrase used on the National Rail site is that Advance tickets "generally go on sale 12 weeks before your day of travel". Which suggests usually but not always.
Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: SandTEngineer on December 12, 2017, 19:31:07 Well someone has stirred...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42322086
Quote Investigation ordered into 'misleading' festive tickets Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has ordered an investigation after reports rail firms "misled" customers. The watchdog Transport Focus said companies were selling tickets for services over Christmas, despite knowing they will not run. Mr Grayling said was "unacceptable" for passengers to have to pay higher "walk-up" fares at Christmas. Industry body the Rail Delivery Group said its members would "develop a plan" to address the complaints. Mr Grayling said: "It would be totally unacceptable if any passenger has to pay walk-up fares this Christmas because advance tickets were not available." "I expect passengers to be offered the highest standards of customer service and have ordered an immediate investigation into this report." He also urged Network Rail and train companies to closer together to minimise disruption and make sure the problem did not happen again. Transport Focus found more than 2,600 incorrect journeys - those already cancelled or scheduled to face disruption - were on offer during the Christmas week alone. The group also found that by 13 October - 11 weeks before Christmas - reservations had not opened on Great Western, London Midland, South Western Railway and Southern - despite regulations stating they should. Only 15% of services were open for reservation on Greater Anglia and 25% on Virgin Trains. Transport Focus chief executive Anthony Smith said: "Failure to release timetables 12 weeks ahead of travel can mean passengers buy tickets for trains that will not run. "That can't be right. Train operators' advice is to book early at Christmas to get the best deal. "But if the timetable has not been finalised only more expensive 'on the day' tickets can be bought." Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Richard Fairhurst on December 12, 2017, 20:15:00 Quote Mr Grayling said was "unacceptable" for passengers to have to pay higher "walk-up" fares at Christmas... Mr Grayling said: "It would be totally unacceptable if any passenger has to pay walk-up fares this Christmas because advance tickets were not available." Dear Mr Grayling, I think you'll find that's pretty much the textbook definition of "yield management". Of course, you could fix this in a stroke by regulating more fares and mandating that off-peak fares should be available at certain dates/times. You are the Secretary of State for Transport, you know. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: LiskeardRich on December 12, 2017, 20:32:27 Myself and a couple of dormant coffee shoppers are planning a trip to London mid February, the up direction we have some cheap advances for the Friday night up sleeper from Exeter. We’re toying a Devon evening ranger first, and there were no cheap advances from cornwall!
The Saturday return leg as yet has no advance tickets Released yet, waterloo to Exeter st David’s is however released so we have discussed and dismissed for the time being going via Waterloo as the cheap advances are nearly as much as the Paddington walk ups! Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: rogerw on December 12, 2017, 21:05:46 I am still unable to find fares from London to Trowbridge on 27 January. Nothing from Paddington or Waterloo (except for 2020 ex WAT, change Salisbury, which gets in after my bedtime :)). Super off peak single fares are cheaper from Paddington than Waterloo, but still about twice the cheapest advance fares.
Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2017, 21:13:48 I am still unable to find fares from London to Trowbridge on 27 January. Nothing from Paddington or Waterloo (except for 2020 ex WAT, change Salisbury, which gets in after my bedtime :)). Super off peak single fares are cheaper from Paddington than Waterloo, but still about twice the cheapest advance fares. Not surprised. Travelling from London last weekend, it wasn’t until three weeks out those Advance tickets were finally made available. How many people between T12 and T3 purchased more expensive fares than need be for travel on trains that were running to a different timetable? Indefensible.I don’t hold GWR responsible but I certainly do Network Rail. GWR can’t offer tickets until the timetables are finalised. Network Rail are NOT keeping to the T12 rule and who is holding them to account...no one! Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Timmer on December 12, 2017, 21:20:11 Regards Christmas travel. I think that this is the worst year for lateness of timetables and fares being made available for travel over the Christmas/New Year period.
Still, I’m sure Network Rail management Christmas bonuses won’t appear in their bank accounts late. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: JayMac on December 12, 2017, 21:29:21 Where's the incentive for GWR to kick Network Rail's butt?
If they don't get the T -12, they get to sell walk up fares for much longer. Ker-ching. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 12, 2017, 23:57:17 There are links to the documents (help again CfN......) Yes, there are indeed links on the transportfocus website - all to their 'pdf' documents. Just click on the link in each case. ;) Letter to RDG T-12 Nov 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11091602/Letter-to-RDG-T-12-Nov-2017.pdf) Letter to GWR T-12 Nov 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11091603/Letter-to-GWR-T-12-Nov-2017.pdf) Letter to NR T-12 Nov 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11091710/Letter-to-NR-T-12-Nov-2017.pdf) T-12 enclosure with examples Nov 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11093912/T-12-enclosure-with-examples-Nov-2017.pdf) GWR and NR Letter to Transport Focus - Dec 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11091707/GWR-and-NR-Letter-to-Transport-Focus-Dec-2017.pdf) Rail Delivery Group letter to Transport Focus - Dec 2017 (http://d3cez36w5wymxj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/11114519/Rail-Delivery-Group-letter-to-Transport-Focus-Dec-2017.pdf) Hope this helps. ;) Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Timmer on December 13, 2017, 07:06:43 I don’t think GWR want to over promote the services direct London services to/from Marylebone in view of the limited service offered once every 2 hours to Swansea and Plymouth/Penzance all via Bristol as well. The railway is very much assuming virtually everyone travelling for Christmas from London would have done so by Saturday the 23rd and have encouraged passengers to do so.
As for the return journey back to London on the 27th, could be interesting. At least there will be services to Reading from Penzance/Plymouth that day unlike on the 23rd that should help. Would probably be a better way to travel rather than on the direct trains as these will be very busy even though it involves a change at Reading for the Waterloo service. I think it’s somewhat disappointing that GWR/NR aren’t diverting services to Waterloo after Westbury via Salisbury as has been done during pervious works in the Reading/Paddington areas. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: stuving on December 13, 2017, 09:50:27 I think it’s somewhat disappointing that GWR/NR aren’t diverting services to Waterloo after Westbury via Salisbury as has been done during pervious works in the Reading/Paddington areas. Waterloo is of course being rebuilt, though there isn't really a lot going on around Christmas this year. They are already opening a bit of space in the International platforms for some SER trains displaced from elsewhere. What SWR are promising is only this on the 24th: Quote London Paddington station will be closed today. Where possible, we will be running extra coaches on trains to Reading and to Exeter to accommodate passengers diverted from London Paddington. Trains on these routes are expected to be very busy today. Then, on the 27th Quote London Paddington station will be closed today. Where possible, we will be running extra coaches on trains to Exeter to accommodate passengers diverted from London Paddington. These trains are expected to be very busy today. South Western Railway will be running extra services between London Waterloo and Reading and in order to provide trains and crew for these a revised timetable will apply for all services which normally pass through Staines. Four trains an hour will run between London Waterloo and Reading via Staines. A revised train service will run between London Waterloo and Windsor & Eton Riverside. Trains will make extra stops and will run via Brentford and Hounslow. A shuttle train service will run between Virginia Water and Weybridge. Please use other train services between London Waterloo and Virginia Water or Weybridge to connect I don't think this counts as a practice run for the proper 4 tph service due to begin next year - at least I hope it doesn't! It involves the faster trains waiting after Bracknell for the GWR trains to get out of the way before they can enter Wokingham. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: bobm on December 13, 2017, 11:30:38 Have they got those dates correct?
Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: Tim on December 13, 2017, 14:28:54 There are two issues at work here as I see it.
Firstly the planning processes are failing to get engineering work organised on time. Whilst this is deeply regrettable and something which we have been promised for ages would be improved, it is at least a complicated problem which has no easy solution, so I have some sympathy for the industry here. Secondly, the ToCs have decided to profit from the industry's poor performance and sell non-advanced tickets on services which have not yet had cheap advanced fares released. Most customers will end up buying the more expensive tickets and assuming that the cheaper tickets have already sold out. This is indefensible greed. There is absolutely no reason why the booking engines cannot tell you when advanced fares are released if you search for a journey in the future where that has not yet happened. I recently booked some advanced fares from VR (Finnish Railways) and this is a railway which I think also struggles with getting timetables agreed at a constant distance in advance. The booking horizon has jumped from 60 days before travel, 84 days and now 120 days. But this doesn't matter much because the on their website a search for tickets not yet realised tells you the expected date of release rather than sell you a rip-off fare. VR is a more honest undertaking than the Spivs who run our railway. Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2017, 15:00:07 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Yes that was my understanding, and my Business has a lot of work has a lot of scheduled for the 28th based on Paddington being open and people being able to get to work, has this now changed? Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: SandTEngineer on December 13, 2017, 15:27:11 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Yes that was my understanding, and my Business has a lot of work has a lot of scheduled for the 28th based on Paddington being open and people being able to get to work, has this now changed? Well, I can tell you that the new signalling is SCHEDULED to be commissioned at 0420 on the 28th........ ::) Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: TaplowGreen on December 13, 2017, 15:52:53 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Yes that was my understanding, and my Business has a lot of work has a lot of scheduled for the 28th based on Paddington being open and people being able to get to work, has this now changed? Well, I can tell you that the new signalling is SCHEDULED to be commissioned at 0420 on the 28th........ ::) I have to say that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence judging by the usual performance 🙁 Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: SandTEngineer on December 13, 2017, 15:54:57 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Yes that was my understanding, and my Business has a lot of work has a lot of scheduled for the 28th based on Paddington being open and people being able to get to work, has this now changed? Well, I can tell you that the new signalling is SCHEDULED to be commissioned at 0420 on the 28th........ ::) I have to say that doesn't exactly fill me with confidence judging by the usual performance 🙁 TG, thats why I put the word SCHEDULED in bold italics...... ;) Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: LiskeardRich on December 13, 2017, 16:02:54 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. Yes that was my understanding, and my Business has a lot of work has a lot of scheduled for the 28th based on Paddington being open and people being able to get to work, has this now changed? Reduced service surely won’t cope with passenger volumes and the extra SWR is to relieve Paddington? Title: Re: Advance notice of railway engineering works affecting timetables T-12 Not Post by: stuving on December 13, 2017, 16:34:15 Have they got those dates correct? Paddington is open on the 28th - albeit with a reduced service as only one line in each direction will be open on the approach to the station. You're right - SWR's plan for extra Reading trains is only for the 27th. I mixed it up with the next two days which have the same pattern of closures, not involving Paddington. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |