Great Western Coffee Shop

All Saints Youth and Community Hall, Didcot, from 12:30 for 13:00 through to 16:00 (for 16:30).  7th January 2018.
Note that the Didcot Railway Centre is open for static viewing from 10:30, and some members may wish to make a full day out by frequenting a hostelry for early lunch or afterwards.

We're styling this as a public meeting - all welcome and no charge.  However, I've taken a personal risk of getting a decent audience and I'll have a jar off to one side.   If a dozen of you put £5 in there, I cover my costs.   If more do, then I will donate any excess to a TransWilts project as we continue to promote the train services from Swindon to Westbury and beyond. And we'll have our work cut out in 2018 ... with newer longer trains our seat occupant rates are going to need some attention.

The agenda will include

* Welcome

* Short Keynote

* 5 minutes each on the Community Rail Consultation and thoughts on the Coffee Shop for coming years

* Presentation on the consultation, biased towards aspects that are generating interest here in the forum, and laced with that input to test it more widely

* Sessions around the room - will depend on numbers, but looking at taking questions and having people follow through  their interests go look at a concerted view.     I would look at everyone being able to go to at least 4 sessions, and each session being at least 20 minutes.    Offers of leads would be appreciated

* Final wrap up - "do we submit inputs as the coffee shop or leave individual members and groups to do so" and if we're going to submit something, work out the logistics.

All Saints' Youth and Community Hall, Roman Place, Didcot, OX11 7ER (map attached).

The session is intended to be "fiercely independent" so I have not sought and industry or local authority or charity sponsorship. However, it's a public meeting and as such any and all of those groups may attend.

To sign up, please message me here or email me via graham @ wellho . net

Thanks for that update, grahame.

While my shift pattern at work means that I generally work every Sunday, I have now asked whether I could take some time back on Sunday 7 January, on the assumption that by then I will have already worked many hours of overtime over Christmas and the New Year.

If that is agreed, I shall be delighted to attend your proposed forum meet-up, and would be happy to offer to lead a discussion session.

As soon as I have a reply, I'll add details here.

CfN.  :)

That is lovely thanks Chris ...

Sorry, my apologies for something so close to home.

I start the day in Robin Hoods Bay - a quick google will show that 1230/1300 in Didcot is not possible. Indeed, being there for the wrap up idn't easily either, such is the public transport options on a winter sunday. Annoying!

I'm sorry that I'll apparently not be seeing you there, ChrisB, but things are looking positive for my own attendance.  :)

'Work' have indicated that I'll have no problem taking a 'day off in lieu' on 7 January, so grahame is welcome to now add me to the list of attendees - and indeed possible leaders of a discussion group (gulp!).  ;)

Sorry .. I'll be busy returning my youngest to university that day for his second term  :)

Sadly (for once) I shall be in Devon.

I should be able to come to this. I've noted it in my diary plus relevant train times from and to Chippenham

I have Paul's keynote slides.   


All I can say is WOW ... if you can make this one, do so ...

I intend to travel on the 1105 from Trowbridge and 1146 from Swindon - assuming that there are crews available to work them ;) ::)

I'll be back there !

AGENDA for Sunday 7th January ... All Saints Youth and Community Hall, Didcot.

Public meeting arranged by the Coffee Shop Forum's admin

"Making effective forward looking responses to the Great Western Franchise Consultation"

Question to me: Is there any point consulting on a future franchise when it seems that FirstGroup are just going to keep getting extensions to the current one?

Answer: Even for the cynic, yes there is, as you / we / they (DfT) can help shape what First (or a. n. other) are required to do

From 12:30 - arrive for 13:00 start; sign in, set up, etc.  No entrance charge, but a donation box will be available if you want to help defray my costs for the hall hire. Any shortfall I will make up, any excess (!) will help our ongoing work.

13:00 Intro, bookkeeping etc, then 5 mins each on
   Coffee Shop update
   Community Rail Consultation
   GWRF Consultation
   Rest of day plan

13:25 Paul Johnson / keynote

14:00 First Groups  (Groups defined below, based on questions in the franchise and forum votes)
   A   What does the franchise want to achieve?
   C   What and we do trains go?
   D   Fares and ticketing

14:25 Second Groups
   B   Admin and structure of the businesses
   C   What and we do trains go?
   F   The Passenger Experience

14:50 Third Groups
   C   What and we do trains go?
   D   Fares and ticketing
   E   Building for the further future

15:15 Fourth Groups
   D   Fares and ticketing
   G   The wider community

15:40 Summarise and where from here

16:00 Close - we may adjourn to a local hostelry.

---

Groups of topics - numbers in brackets represent votes cast for the coverage at this meeting of each topic


Section A - Where do we start?
GWRF2020-01 Franchise Objectives for the 2020s (6)

Section B - Administration and Structure
GWRF2020-02 Splitting the current franchise area into two franchises (9)
GWRF2020-04 Relationship between Network Rail and train operator (6)
GWRF2020-11 Freight expectations sought (0)

Section C - What and when do the trains go?
GWRF2020-05 Timetable improvements (15)
GWRF2020-08 Direct (through train) service provision (6)
GWRF2020-07 Reducing journey times by reducing intermediate stops (7)
GWRF2020-09 Seasonal and special event services (6)
GWRF2020-03 Future homes for Greenford and Brighton services (2)
GWRF2020-10 Other service enhancements (6)

Section D - Fares and tickets
GWRF2020-15 Fares and ticketing (15)

Section E - Building for the further future
GWRF2020-06 New Stations or lines for the next franchise (beyond 2022) (9)

Section F - The Passenger experience
GWRF2020-14 Stations (4)
GWRF2020-12 Rolling Stock and provision therein (9)
GWRF2020-13 Accessibility (0)

Section G - The wider community
GWRF2020-16 Community Rail (3)
GWRF2020-17 Investment in workforce and skills (4)
GWRF2020-18 Any Other Business (0)

---

Relevan threads:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19037.0
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19164.0
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19134.0

Sorry can't be there, but I would strongly be against splitting the franchise for the reasons I have stated in the relevant thread.

I haven’t met anyone who thinks it’s a good idea yet.  That of course means it is sure to be bulldozed through!

Keep the franchise as it is now but trim off some of 'the fat'.

1. Remove the Brightons, plenty of alternatives on the Coastway line.

2. Curtail the Great Malverns at Worcester Foregate Street with terminators at Shrub Hill extended to Foregate Street to give connections to stations to Great Malvern and Hereford on LM  ? services.

3.Transfer the Greenford, Windsor, Marlow and Henley branches to Crossrail.

4. Maybe hive the Reading - Gatwick service off to a separate company/franchise 'Gatwick Link'.

5. Maybe hive off the Reading - Basingstoke service off to SWT.

Seems sensible.


Not so sure about this


Greenford fits better with Chiltern

Crossrail have no diesel capability in the area so i see absolutely no benefit in this.  Sure to make the services more unreliable.



Where will they base their very few trains?  Again few trains means less resilience. 


Could be a solution, but only if GWR have no need for any diesels this far East.  SWT would have to base them at Salisbury which is still a fair bit away and current 158's and 159's based there are not the obvious choice of stock for Reading Basingstoke.  If Salisbury maintained and very few units for this service - the same resilience problem arises. 

In short the whole splitting franchise up into smaller chucnks reduces resilience. 

Maybe I should have added ; who will electrify them and reinstate through peak hour services to/from Paddington.

Where will they find the paths for those services?

They won't, they'll use the paths that GWR can't use due to more than the usual number of trains requiring repairs at the same time / shortage of train drivers.

Seriously though, with all the hype about the 1000's more seats promised for peak hours would Crossrail really miss a couple of paths from / to Reading in the peaks in exchange for a Henley - Paddington and a Bourne End Paddington. A Slough - Paddington and vice-versa could be started back / extended to Windsor and a Hayes & Harlington - Paddington and vice versa return could be rerouted Greenford - Paddington and vice versa.

When I was at College in Slough there were 2 through morning services Windsor - Paddington, 1 non stop to Ealing Broadway then Paddington tother being all stops with likewise albeit in the reverse direction evenings. The Greenfords ran to Ealing Broadway with the unit recessing in a siding between the down relief and up main lines whilst the driver changed ends. That meant the driver leaving the cab at one end and walking along the ballast to tother end cos there were no corridor connections between a 'bubble-car' and a 'driving-trailer'. Even on the 3-car 1st generation units used in the TV there were no corridor connections so if one had a weak bladder one always used to ensure one seated oneself in the middle car of a 3-car set as that was a non motorised vehicle and the only one of the set which had a toilet which was located between the First Class compartment and Cattle Class.

From late last night


Hopefully in DIDCOT by 13:00 today for the Coffee Shop In Real Life meet up to help with best responses to the GW Franchise public consultation?

I have snipped who I'm quoting above because I wanted to remind EVERYONE.

I note lots of "crew shortage" cancellations today.   What doesn't come up on our map is lots of trains still running so that you can make it unless you're right down at the far end of the patch!

Sadly I will be unable to join  :( , however as ellendune below, I have stated my thoughts in each relevant thread.

Hope everyone has a useful discussion and I'm sure discussed topics/follow ups will be posted here which would be nice to read :)

Totally understood - we're a forum of very busy people and it's wonderful to have contributions here.  Today is a rare opportunity and not in any sense a duty.   It has to be a rare opportunity exactly because we're all so busy!

Hit POST prematurely in last post so last post continues ;

Mind you, them were the days when Windsor Central had 4 platforms, Slough had 7, Henley 4 (I think), Bourne End to High Wycombe was still open, one could travel direct from Paddington to High Wycombe, Banbury, Birmingham Snow Hill, Wolverhamton Low Level, Shrewsbury, Chester General and Birkenhead Woodside and some intermediate stations I haven't mentioned like Solihull. The Blue Pullmans were the newest toys then.

Mind you, much of the signalling in the TV, with the exception of the immediate Paddington area, was still semaphore and where there were colour lights, they were just colour lights bolted onto semaphore posts / gantries from which the semaphore arms had been discarded but still operated from mechanical boxes which had cut-down levers to indicate to the signalman that the lever operated an electrical signal light or point mechanism.

Paddington had two power signal boxes, Paddington Arrivals, on the south side and Paddington Departures. between platform 12 & 13. Most arrivals ran into platforms 8 - 12 and most departures went from 1 - 7. Local TV services shared the tracks with LU from Royal Oak Subway Junction to Paddington platforms 13 - 16, TV being platformed on 14 & 15.

Regretfully won't be able to make the longgggggg trip up from the far Southwest now.  I hope you have a good day.  Please let us know how it all went.

A healthy if select group at Didcot today - good to meet you all, Gentlemen. A lot of apologies for absence, but then  we're all busy people, and as far as general online forum meet-ups go this was one of the best proportion attended that I've seen.

A big "thank you" to readers and lurkers from a variety of background who were there - local authority, train operator, industrial rail industry and LEP all represented.  Added to passengers, user groups and community groups too.   The purpose of the day was to get us all thinking, and to look at how to make effective inputs rather than (at this stage) to define what those inputs would actually be.    In each of the break-out sessions, individuals took notes and I look forward to seeing those notes and comments being posted on relevant threads.

The slide set is online at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/did_20180107.pdf .

The slide set end with a question - "should the Coffee Shop answer the franchise, or should we just act as an enabler and informer to help others answer effectively?".    The answer / general view is that the coffee shop should answer in general and principled terms, but leave specifics to individual groups and areas.    Those present today will be doing a "round robin" to work out these principles over the next 10 days, and we'll the be encouraging others to submit too - with reference to our principles should they wish to do so.

Some pictures from yesterday

Paul Johnson addresses the meeting in the keynote:
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/did_01.jpg)

Thoughts on how to have inputs that you make taken with appropriate seriousness:
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/did_03.jpg)

And a demonstration showing how things are changing - Swindon at 11 a.m. yesterday morning:
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/did_02.jpg)

It was nice to note that the Coffeeshop has sufficient standing that Matthew Golton, GWR's deputy MD, felt it worthwhile attending on a Sunday afternoon.

He was there very much to listen rather than put over GWR's view.  However he did point out that such is the glacial speed with which projects happen on the railway as a whole that it is only now that some relatively simple projects - such as the depot improvements at Exeter - are happening.  This despite being in franchise agreements for a number of years and being pressed by GWR with industry partners on a regular basis.

Dennis the Menace is certainly looking older - never thought I'd see him in pink trousers!!!  ;)