Great Western Coffee Shop

Apologies if this has been covered - but I could not find it.

We are a fortnight out from the new timetable - and finding details is very difficult. I have tried my local TV station and Reading booking offices, neither of which seem to have a copy (pocket form).

We all know of the bad news that direct Oxford to Paddington stopper trains are gone, which will inconvenience some - but there is some good news (that I am surprised FGW are not spinning/marketing). From what I can see loaded on RTT - during peak hours there is an increase in trains to Reading, raising the 2 trains an hour to 3 or 4. Surely something to celebrate.

Along side the EMU service from Didcot to Reading (and beyond) there are still Turbo services between Oxford/Banbury and Reading - giving the service increase. Not quite a 'metro' service, but for period there is a train every 15 to 20 mins into Reading.

Timetables (new pocket versions) can be seen here: https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/train-times (PDF files)

Thanks Ollie.

Please bear in mind that at least some of these will have a further update just before they start to correct issues in some last minute changes ( I'm aware of some Sunday morning issues on Westbury / Warminster).

And its only a week till the new timetables....

Thanks Ollie - don’t know how I missed them.

If there are some last minute revisions to the online pdfs for Ollie's attention. There are destination errors that are hiding some of the Thames Valley peak semi-fasts (Timetable T8), of which there are several more with the new electric service :). Although shown as 'continues to' EAL (Ealing Broadway), the following two services do not call there and should be 'continues to' PAD: 1P03 - dep. OXF 0550 (Turbo), & 1P15 dep. DID 0750 (Electric).

Also 2P08, the first Up Stopper of the day's last intermediate stop is Acton Main Line after its advertised EAL.

I suspect, Oxonhutch, that these should go to the poster and timetable team in Exeter rather than to Ollie - I can p.m. you an email address.

I have been very firmly told to wait for the corrections I have pointed out are needed - that they will be in place by the start of the new service.  That's provided us a TransWilts with a real difficulty, as recent timetables we have distributed have been based on the excellent work that Exeter have done - but this time we don't yet have the correct base artwork and we've missed the deadline for having local timetables ready by start of service.    This should normally be something that's quietly sorted out behind the scenes, but we seem to not be the only ones who are finding that changes in our relationship aren't positive - see http://www.avocetline.org.uk/gwr-timetable-change/ ("This was done without consultation with ALRUG")

Since Andy McRae moved on - who was & still is (in his new post) very helpful and approachable, the new post holder hasn't exactly tried to mirror him, which is a real shame.

Sadly, they weren't / aren't. Promise broken. We now don't have up to date timetable posters for the bus stops in the town centre and other outlets, nor artwork for a brochure; as ever resourceful, we'll have to do a kludge ...

On the bright side:
* 2 car train on the TransWilts shuttle diagram this morning - positive passenger response!
* New day return fares introduced Swindon and Chippenham to Salisbury and Southampton, plugging a gap and removing a barrier to selling the train trip ("too expensive")
* Warminster now has a pre-09:00 northbound service on Sundays / no longer any need to wait for the 10:49

Thanks for the 153s :) I gather GWRs remaining 153s are being relocated to Cornwall and Devon only.
Read that gunnislake and st Ives are most likely will be 2 x 153 from this week. I’m assuming that’s an increase in seating vs a 150 with the extra 2x3m?

Edit 2x153s will not go to gunnislake, not cleared

When are you expecting a Turbo on the TransWilts, Graham?

Are GWR still producing the full £5 timetable book these days?

Not for some time; this morning it was 158-763 and I would expect to see a significant presence of 150-2xx with perhaps the occasional appearance of 150-0xx over the next few months.  The platform at Melksham is technically too short for a 2 car turbo, and my understanding is that until the longer platform's in place (NR have slipped in their January 2018 timescale for this) or until the Turbos can do SDO, we're with sprinters.   May see a rarer 150-1xx during the next month too, I suppose.

There's no great rush for the turbos - the big change from 153 to something longer has nearly doubled capacity overnight, and it will take us a few months weeks to fill that to the point of passengers being put off travelling again - that one-to-two tsp change in any organisation or system is a massive one and dwarfs the step up from regular to high capacity carriages.

I believe so. Also likely to be more widely available, but the cost I have heard will be £8.

Going by Twitter not sure the new timetable has been a great success.

GWR seemed to be pinning a lot on the new trains (or newer, redeployed trains) and doesn't seem to have worked.

There also seems to be a lot of people caught out by the timetable changes. I've not seen anything at stations or on trains about it but I may just have missed it. Their track record on information isn't great though. Bit frustrating though as according to Twitter my regular train home is no more.

Yep but will be £8

Ouch!

£8???

That's more than a 3.4% increase.  ;D

I'll ask my usual source to hold off buying me one.

They've probably cut the number they print, which may well push up the price.

Probably, but I think that price will put even more people off from purchasing so eventually they will cease publication which would be a shame as it's really well produced.

But if they can't at least break even printing the previous quantity (as they're throwing away too many un-bought copies) or the lesser quantity (price yo high), what's the answer?

Stop producing it  :)

It would be a shame, but if very few actually buy it....

Cornish branches full set of 153s today. Only 150 in Cornwall this morning was the 0600 off Penzance

The Melksham increase in capacity taking a hit elsewhere

First return trip on that route was a single coach this morning....

Indeed - during 2017, loss of a carriage meant a cancellation.  But this morning it "just" meant that people were sitting on each other's knees again  ;D

"Managing expectations" ... this (short) week, smoke signals seen in the final few weeks before Christmas led us to be live that things would be settling in ... a good point to start making a realistic evaluation being from Monday, 8th.   I flagged (post elsewhere) six separate stock diagrams that were short this morning and none of them were west of Exeter.  I do expect you'll see lots of pairs of 153s out west, and bearing in mind the seasonality, I wonder if the Looe and Newquay branches would manage to mid March with a single 153 on most services?   Really a question for RichardB - I simply don't know their commuter flows versus seasonal and off peak traffic.

I see one of GWR's named trains the "Torbay Express" is not on the new timetable. This was 1C09, the 10:00 Paddington to Paignton weekday service via Bristol Temple Meads.
1C09 is still a valid service but now only goes as far as BTM.
Is the "Torbay Express" likely to return once the IET rollout is complete?

Runs via Westbury leaving Paddington later at 10.35. And no it won't return to running via Bristol.

Thanks Timmer I hadn't checked the other route. I have occasionally used this service from Swindon to Dawlish, so will have to change at Bristol in future.

It is a shame that service doesn't call at Westbury - it would make an excellent connection out of the 10:47 from Swindon.  However there are a couple of freight workings at Westbury which might get in the way.

Nothing west via Taunton from Westbury from 08:26 to 12:22 would you believe?  And that 08:26 is the first train of the day.

Connections from Swindon at 06:10 (arriving Westbury 06:53) and that 10:47 you mentioned (arriving Westbury 11:31) ... not a joined up flow, I'm afraid.  I'm tend to take my laptop and work in the waiting room when I have a 90 minute wait at Westbury!

Looe and Newquay use a single 153 most of the year, which gets strengthened to a 150 in peak summer.

I have noticed that the few early Penzance to Paddington HSTs which ran via Bristol, now none of them do. I found them to be quite useful for heading up to Bristol or South Wales and avoiding crowded 4 car voyagers, and changing at Taunton there is normally a long wait for GW TAU - BRI service, although one of them atleast stops at Westbury in time to catch a Portsmouth to Cardiff service heading through Bristol.

The Newquay is a now a double 153 as from this week with 153s covering all the Cornish Branches

Penzance to Paddington via Bristol would be awkward journeys if the decision is taken to go "red" and "blue". Could one of the reasons of these trains being faded out be a drift towards service patterns that would logically fall into one franchise or the other?   I'm reminded of reports from 50 years ago of train services being amended to reduce the usefulness of a service, leading a while later to the conclusion the services weren't viable.

Or even simply a saving on miles travelled (and thus need paying for to Hitachi)?

There is the now re-instated 07:30 from London Paddington to Penzance via Bristol and the 17:42 from Penzance - although that is often diverted via the Berks & Hants due to engineering work.

I thought I fleetingly saw a three car 150 in green livery between Penzance and Marazion at about 1145 this morning?

150-002 perhaps.   Not sure what colour -001 is at the moment.

150002 it was.   150001 same livery

Not 3 car, but when I was at Westbury early yesterday morning there were two 150s with power points - one was 150266.

Also a new early morning 06:37 Paddington to Penzance, and return at 12ish lunchtime?

Funny that the down service does not stop at Newton Abbot, if it was me id make it earlier so it arrives in Exeter for 08:15 - 08:30 and Plymouth for 09:20 - 09:40. Hopefully with the IET introduction to Devon & Cornwall, we should also see a 08:05 departure to at least Exeter. Plugging a gap that used to be an hour, or now 30 mins but going via Bristol takes an extra 45 mins anyway.

I'd still be surprised if GWR is broken up, as I've heard from a good source that GWR Stakeholders are not very happy at the idea.

It seems more important for it to have a three hour schedule ... even if (as yet) it's very unbusy off Paddington.  Yes - that may be part of a longer term plan than just the next few months - perhaps some useful stops could be added once it's running with a unit with faster station takeoff and crisper door closing procedures.

I travelled on the train from London Paddington to St Erth on Monday.   The 06:37 departure has been replaced with one at 06:33.

Admittedly it was half term and the train was in reverse formation but on departure from London I counted nine people in coaches D, E and F.  Twenty-one boarded at Taunton.

At Newton Abbot we slowed to a crawl through the platform despite having clear signals. 

Given that there are generous connection times for most branch line services along the way, with the possible exception of Exmouth (and Newquay as the train skips Par), I am sure the good people of Plymouth wouldn't begrudge a call at Westbury and or Castle Cary if it meant a slightly later arrival in the Ocean City.

Whether or not they would begrudge an extra stop, it could make the difference between a service that's viable and one that's not.

Totally agree.  I am no fan of this dash for headline figures.  Would an extra five or ten minutes really be a deal-breaker?

I forecast that it would be lightly used when Plymouth brethrin pushed for this. I'm still of the opinion that there'll only be double-figure patronage east  of Taunton this year on average....

Not sure the  cult-ish evangelical Christians (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth Brethren) actively campaigned for the early train.  :P ;) ;D

I recall learning from the experts (including the DfT and rail minister at the time, no less) that it takes three years for a new / trial service to bed in, and that low(er) loadings at some point on a run - for the first or last couple of stops especially - are one of those awkward things that depress the overall stats but are needed to gather/ungather the custom.   I also learned to watch new and trial services and look to check that they weren't just missing the bull's eye - where a minute or two here or there, a single extra stop perhaps, could make a difference between something that took off and was well used, or something that frankly floundered to be quietly faded out over time as new timetables and new stop changed the route out of all recognition - and recognised it into something very different without having to admit that.

I would be gobsmacked if the 06:37 / 06:33 of Paddington ever becomes a busy train unless we have mega social change in the UK.   But I have, very occasionally, been gobsmacked before and I hope it happens.   I do look at the (even earlier!) 05:19 Paddington to Swansea and I expect that loadings off Paddington are similarly light - however, within the hour it's picking up a large number of people, and it becomes a busy train all through the morning peak at a plethora of stops.  The empty seats from Paddington on the 05:19 are acceptable as a consequence of a lot of stations usefully served alone the way; the 06:33 (alas) doesn't stop at [enough] stations to fulfil that role for people who would love to be able to get on and off.

I was referring to spokes-persons for Plymouth businesses who were stating that the lack of a early morning arrival was holding back/preventing them improving their economy- ie to me, meaning quick take up on this service if provided. Hmmm.

Several members here agreed with them.

For those unsure of how the Plymouth Brethren (Exclusive) differ from the Church of England, I shall try to explain the variations in theology and doctrine in simple terms:

C of E: Anything goes, so long as it is not contrary to Biblical teachings (which are open to interpretation)
Plymouth Brethren: Everything is forbidden unless it's compulsory.

Anglican vicars seem to figure highly in the railway world, especially when it comes to steam trains on long-forgotten branch lines. Brethren tend to travel in people carriers, having larger families than the average.

Not forgetting a certain fictitious island situated twixt Cumbria and the Isle of Man  ;D

Getting back to the 06:33 PAD-PNZ, but at a slight tangent. When this new service was originally loaded into the system, it included a stop at Newton Abbot at 09:02. This was very much applauded locally as there was a very large gap in NTA-PLY services between 08:35 and 09:55. We were then told that the proposed NTA stop was not going to happen; the 07:03 PAD-PNZ would be re-routed to run to Paignton and a new 09:24 EXD-PNZ service would run, calling at NTA at 09:45 to compensate for the loss of the 09:55 stop. A slight improvement on the 80 minute gap in the service - EXCEPT, the printed public timetable still showed the 09:24 EXD-PNZ service calling at NTA at 09:55 rather than 09:45! Not a good start, with pax still turning up for 09:55.

Incidentally, IIRC, several Advance tickets were sold at NTA for what would have been the 09:02 departure for Plymouth! 

Until this week this week what was the 0633 (will be 0635 from May) was showing in the NR schedule data as calling at Newton Abbot from the May timetable change and GWR were also offering advance tickets for this train.  As of this week though the Newton Abbot call has been removed with the public arrival time into Plymouth now 0935.  I expect that once again Newton Abbot had to be removed in order to allow for a headline 3 hour journey time to Plymouth but I thought that everything had to be set in stone 12 weeks in advance (except for essential engineering work).  Seeing as this has now happened twice, I wonder how much freedom there actually is to change the timetable within this period even if advance tickets have been sold.

I still question this desire for headline fast end to end journey times if it means the train calling at fewer and fewer places en route.   I have travelled on that service a few times and it has rarely been anything like busy.  Take out the Newton Abbot stop and it becomes another reason not to use it.

I would not presume to comment on the details of this particular service, but I wonder if someone with a commercial mind might decide that while fewer stops may deter/prevent some from travelling, it may increase the attractiveness of a faster journey for others joining at larger stations to a degree that more than compensates.  For those on long journeys it isn't just a faster journey that might encourage them to choose the train over other transport options, but the reduction in the flow of passengers settling down/preparing to leave every 20 minutes (especially in crowded XC trains) might also add to a more settled and relaxing atmosphere.

I'm sure there is a matrix of reasons for trains calling/not calling at stations, but I offer this to the mix of reasons.

(I think Graham may have touched on this subject under another heading a while ago, but I can't find the thread.)

I'm sure I did ... I have views  ;D ;D

I suspect you have a marketing v sales conflict on the 06:3[35] off Paddington.  The sales people want to include stops at Westbury and Newton Abbott to take a train that's got a considerable number of empty seats as it heads west, so that it can generate more revenue for GWR each day it runs.  The marketing people want it to make the journey in three hours so that means hardly any stops so that they can advertise a three-hour service and generate more overall revenue for GWR at all times of day by attracting people to the services with a smart "from just three hours" headline.

The solution?   Change to metric hours of 100 minutes, then you have a run time of 198 minutes for this train and can stop at selected extra places and claim London to Plymouth in under two hours.

I see. We could have a centiday and a deciday, as well as a megaday birthday, when you get a card from the Queen. Services on the railway will close on Bank minidays, and senior railcards will be available to anyone receiving superkilodayuation.

Lost in the great server meltdown, but I think this was Graham's "April Fool", albeit a little early! 🙂