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Latest from TfL re: Hayes & Harlington

In answer to a letter sent to TfL dated 18-12-2017

Their reply is dated 23-01-2018 and covers:

1/ Weather shelters on platforms 1 and 4 - these not to be provided until Sept. 2018 or later

2/ Traffic management on Station Approach - the situation is not understood. It will be investigated. [This is whereby High Point Village security aggressively photograph all drivers entering the private road leading to the platform 4 entrance in order to turn round, or pick up / drop off passengers, and then send the drivers a demand for a huge fine for trespass. There is no turning circle at the station entrance. This scam has been going on for years - CJB.]

3/ The missing station name at the upper foyer was not known to be missing. The area manager is looking into this. [It was taken down many years ago and never replaced - CJB.]

4/ CIS systems are to be reviewed and 'improved' by Crossrail in the summer. [Currently the signage states that local trains only use platforms 4 and 3. It is still not acknowledged that this is confusing when services use ALL platforms including 2 and 1 - as they do at weekends and in the evenings - CJB.]

5/ The defective ticket machines are to be replaced in the summer. [Currently they are frequently out-of-order, signs about not accepting cash are missing; card only payment discriminates against youngsters who do not have a card and/or tourists whose cards do not work - CJB.] 

No response was made to other issues raised such as:

6/ The general squalor of the station site which is still a building site with no signs of any rebuilding; and there not being any plans or timetables in the public domain for the rebuilding.

7/ Trains suddenly switching platforms say from 3 to 1 or 4 to 2 with less than a minute's notice. Then drivers will not wait for intending passengers to run over the bridges. This is blatant discrimination against the elderly and infirm.

8/ The permanently 'out of order' toilets, especially the disabled one.

9/ The lack of cleaning of the upper foyer floors when it rains and the surfaces are slippery.

10/ Lack of staff visibility in the upper foyer in the late evening to deter beggars and ticket touts.

To: Hillingdon Council / TfL Management / John MacDonnell (MP Hayes & Harlington)

Please accept this Level 1 complaint regarding the deplorable conditions at Hayes Station.

TfL has recently taken over managing Hayes & Harlington Station - well the still demolished ruins of it anyway. There seems to be little progress in actually re-building it.

AND the nightmare scam pertains of cars, cabs, lorries, even the police STILL being photographed and fined by High Point Village management. I understand that the station has been 'blacked' by the black cabs at Heathrow due to the aggression of security staff photographing cabs making pick-ups and drop-offs at the StayCity Hotel. 

So I wonder if you could raise the issues of the station with TfL management, such as:

1/ When is the new station going to be re-built, incl. installing lifts? The general squalor of the station site is still a building site with no signs of any rebuilding; and there not being any plans or timetables in the public domain for the rebuilding. The Station is still inaccessible to the disabled or wheel-chair users.

2/ When is the fiasco regarding parking and turning circles in Station Parade going to be resolved? Apparently the situation is not understood by TfL.

This is whereby High Point Village security aggressively photograph all drivers and registration plates entering the private road - Station Approach - leading to the platform 4 entrance in order to turn round, or pick up / drop off passengers, and then send the respective drivers a demand for a huge fine for trespass. There is no turning circle at the station entrance. This scam has been going on for years. This is unlawful discrimination against the elderly and infirm, to say nothing of families with children.

3/ When are inclement weather shelters going to be provided on platforms 4 and 1? Apparently they are not to be provided until Sept. 2018 or later. WE NEED THEM NOW.

4/ When is the station name going to be re-installed at the upper foyer entrance? TfL claim that the missing station name at the upper foyer was not known to be missing. The area manager is apparently looking into this. It was taken down many years ago and never replaced. It does not bode well for the management of the station if the TfL area manager did not know that it was even missing.

5/ When is proper signage and CIS displays going to be installed regarding platforms and trains, esp. at weekends when trains can use ALL platforms - but passengers frequently wait on the wrong platforms?

Apparently the CIS systems are to be reviewed and 'improved' by Crossrail in the summer - why not now?

Currently the signage states that local trains only use platforms 4 and 3. It is still not acknowledged that this is confusing when services use ALL platforms including 2 and 1 - as they do at weekends and in the evenings.

6/ When are the ticket machines in the upper foyer going to be properly repaired - unwitting tourists try to pay cash esp. for the Heathrow Connect to Heathrow - there are no signs now stating that cash is not accepted?

Apparently the long defective ticket machines are to be replaced in the summer. Currently they are frequently out-of-order, signs about not accepting cash are missing; card only payment discriminates against youngsters who do not have a card and/or tourists whose cards do not work.

7/ Arriving trains are suddenly being switched from platforms, say from 3 to 1 or 4 to 2, with less than a minute's notice. Then drivers will not wait for intending passengers to run over the bridges. This is blatant discrimination against the elderly and infirm.

8/ The permanently 'out of order' toilets, especially the disabled one.

9/ The lack of cleaning of the upper foyer floors when it rains and the surfaces are slippery.

10/ Lack of staff visibility in the upper foyer in the late evening to deter beggars and ticket touts.

Name / Address (provided)

Who managed the station before TfL? Was it NR or GWR? Surely there would have been an agreement that whoever had started the works would finish them?

The work was always going to be done by NR - demolition and complete rebuilding is not a tenant's responsibility! The have promised TfL it will be finished "in time" - as was reported to the TfL board last month:

Right.......so the list of questions above would be better directed to NR than TfL?

Agreed.

Now ... if I were writing to an organisation that had taken over running a facility less that ten weeks previous, I would be adopting a friendly helpful approach with a view to working with them. Helping them understand the issues they had inherited.  Learning in turn what were their key motivators and goals. Seeing what could be grown and evolved towards mutual goals.

And indeed if their supplier (and the supper to the previous operator) had let both operators down badly - what better way to move forward than to stand alongside a willing new operator and ask the questions with them.   But alas, were I that new operator being bashed very early on before I had time to do anything, I would quickly move away from any sympathy with my customer and perhaps stand alongside my supplier as we raised a shield of defence rather than concentrating on resolving issues and getting the thing sorted.

The station is owned by Network Rail - as they all are. It is managed by MTR Crossrail, under a lease taken on by TfL last December. The work being done there (or most of it anyway) is being done by NR for Crossrail (itself working for TfL). So I suspect it makes no difference who receives a letter, it'll be passed buckwise anyway.

As to the letter, no, it doesn't look like it follows the principles of "how to make friends and influence people" - more like "letter-writing as part of an anger management programme".

All day today - Thursday April 12 - Hayes & Harlington Station has been without power.

* No staff on duty
* No ticket machines working
* No tickets for sale - the ticket office is shut
* No announcements
* No customer information systems
* No lights
* No Oyster touch in / out
* No way to report emergencies / incidents / etc.

Got to Paddington and tried to report this outage.

GWR customer service didn't want to know. Network Rail station staff didn't want to know.

"Not our problem" was all I got.

And - par for the course - no Transport for London staff to report the above.

And for years there has been:

* No toilets (they've been closed for a year)
* No proper entrance / exit(s)
* No pick ups / drop offs allowed without a heavy fine
* No turning circle for cars / cabs
* No black cabs (the station has been 'blacked')

Is this the brave new TfL / CrossRail / MTR management style that we are to expect from now on?

Update:

By 19.00 there was an electrician (only one) on site.

* Some lighting had been restored but not the exit from platform 4 into Station Parade - a major hi-risk area for women frequented by beggars and drug dealers.
* Only a few Oyster machines were working - those with unresolved journeys would have been charged a penalty fare.
* No ticket machines were working.
* The ticket office was shut.
* No customer service systems were working.
* No staff were visible.

TfL new style management at its very best. GHU [God help us] - bring back GWR or better BR.

Those stations taken over by TfL in December do appear to have dropped into a black hole as far as TfL are concerned. The latest report (by The Commissioner to the Board meeting on 20th March) (https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/board-20180320-item05-commissioner-report.pdf) refers to accessibility work on the eastern section as TfL Rail, but on the west it only has a paragraphs about NR's work:

Of course they are not running the trains and, understandably, looking after passengers of GWR's trains doesn't fit into any of their usual activities. But that's not an excuse - they needed to create a new activity to manage and report on this.

GWR probably wouldn't be interested its not their station it being a station operated by TfL Rail and cared for by the Freeholder Network Rail but you can report the problem via either:

1st choice = https://tfl.gov.uk/help-and-contact/contact-us-about-tube-and-rail (select TfL Rail)
or
2nd choice = https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/contact-us/

I see Hayes hasn't changed much. The bus stop by the bridge exit wasn't and isn't much fun to wait at when I occasionally pass through.

Chaos still reigns at the Station.

* The customer information system continues to display "No Service" from ALL platforms.

* The ticket machines are still out.

* The ticket office is open but with only one (very slow) member of staff.

* Why hasn't TfL got TWO people in the ticket office?

* Passengers are having to queue to purchase tickets and are missing trains - as I have just done.

* When the ticket office is shut there will be NO way to purchase tickets.

* There are NO apology notices from TfL on the notice boards.

This is the brave new style of management from TfL / MTR / Crossrail / Network Rail.

CJB

This is where drug dealers, ticket touts and beggars ply their trade. The ground is covered in white splodges of gum. Red stains dribble into the gutter from gobbing chewed kava. There have been stabbings there. Even the station name sign has been removed. And stroppy bus drivers often pass by especially if there are other buses blocking the stop. It been like this for years.

It'll be interesting to see how the new station building and footbridge changes the ambience of a far from welcoming station.  I see it looks like foundations for the new footbridge are being installed on the up main platform?

Latest developments ...

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-western-progress

CJB

Are london onnections TFL the link seems to be knocking TFL for lack of progress on stations from Padd to ayes.

No - London Connections is a privately run board, much like this one. And its not only knocking TfL for the lack of progress at the western stations. Network Rail is the main one to blame. TfL are only tenants of the stations.

New TfL Ticket Machines at Hayes & Harlington Station

You might like to visit the Station and see the brand new TfL ticket machines. All ready for CrassRail

They have slots for coins and notes. And clearly advertise Oyster top-ups.

BUT in  the confusion of labels and notices on the facia there are two:

1/ says 'Bank Cards only' - thereby stopping anyone without one from purchasing a ticket such as young people &/or tourists, and

2/ the other says 'No Oyster' top-ups

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Has anyone spotted the typo on the new TfL ticket machine screens?

No - its not the announcement that Oyster is available when it isn't.
No - its not the statement that pre-booked tickets can be obtained when they can't.
No - its not the clear and obvious facilities for cash payments when there is also a statement that bank cards can only be used.

It is a genuine typo of the Grauniad variety, demonstrating sloppy and unprofessional programming.

Which immediately got me thinking that, along the same lines and consequent upon his latest pronouncements, our beloved Secretary of State for Transport should henceforth be referred to as Crass Grayling.

I thought it was Failing Grayling.

May Bank Holiday Closure and Bustitution

At Hayes & Harlington Station they were not allowed to use Station Parade - the once railway-owned road - leading to the station - for the substitute buses. These latter had to use Station Road normally used by a myriad of private hire cars / cabs. Result - traffic chaos.

As is well known in the area - but which still catches out visitors - Station Parade leading to the Station is now privately owned and 'policed' by aggressive security 'goons' armed with cameras. ALL drivers, passengers (even families with young children), and reg. plates are photographed if they enter this now private road. The owners of the vehicles via the DVLA are then sent exorbitant fines for trespass.' This directly affects pick ups / drop offs of passengers at the Station &/or Staycity Hotel; and especially any disabled or infirm passengers. And there is no turning circle at the Station end of the road as there used to be - such as for bus substitutes.

Even customers at the Tesco Express are photographed, and as for parking to load the 'family shop' - no chance.

Transport for London / MTR Crassrail have done NOTHING to solve the situation.

The perps. of this aggressive policy are the management / freeholder(s) of the High Point Village complex. They must be making an absolute fortune out of the fines. The Station has been blacked by black cabs from Heathrow.

TfL says at:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/western-section/hayes-harlington-station

"The station is now operated by Transport for London.

"Whilst building works at Hayes and Harlington station are taking place, drop off facilities are currently limited to the short-term car parking spaces near the entrance to Station Approach; disabled parking is however available at the station end of the road.  Stopping and parking restrictions in Station Approach are being strictly enforced by a private contractor and it is not possible to pick up or drop off passengers anywhere else along the road. Drop off arrangements for once the new station is built and the Elizabeth Line opens are still being finalised."

BTW this statement is a direct lie: "... disabled parking is however available at the station end of the road." There is no such zone - period.

Evidence?   I would suggest that they may well have done something ... but not have succeeded in the short term and be frustrated themselves just as you are.   In fact the following - also in your post - backs up my suggestion and tells me that the are working actively for a better arrangement at least in the future.

Hayes & Harlington Station - 10-05-2018

At noon a bunch of proud TfL 'suits' (sans actual suits but they had rolled up shirt sleeves) with prominent dangly ids. were joyously congregating in the upper foyer of Hayes Station. It appeared to be the day of the actual 'takeover' of TfL. A blue 'Tin Lizzie Line' train went through - at least its doors didn't drop off. They looked on proudly. Never mind the squalor of the station - STILL a building site with no rebuilding progress in evidence after all of these years. Never mind the new ticket machines that don't accept cash, don't issue pre-paid tickets, don't top-up Oysters, i.e. basically don't work as advertised. Meanwhile the stairs from the upper foyer down to platforms 2 and 3 are now permanently blocked. This means that passengers have to lummox themselves and luggage over the bridge to / from platform 4. BTW the Station still doesn't display a name outside. If all of this makes TfL staff proud then GHU on a bad day.

How did they arrive at the station, in chauffeur driven limousines which dropped them off in Station Parade ?

Is it right that the security 'goons' photographing every car and its passengers dropping off / picking up outside the Staycity Hotel in Station Parade are also [allegedly] photographing young kids and mothers too?

Are you sure you can't collect tickets that you've bought online? The GWR website shows Hayes & Harlington by default in the dropdown list of stations to collect your ticket from and the National Rail site acknowledges that the station is run by TFL rail but says that ticket collection is possible. If you can't collect at a ticket machine can the ticket office print it for you? National Rail also bizarrely states that you can not use Oyster Pay as you go at that station ???

There's certainly appears to be at least one error on that page.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/HAY/details.html

On the way home this afternoon I called in at Hayes Station for the Metro.

There were two uniformed TfL staff loitering in the upper foyer.

I asked them when the station's name sign was going to be put back at the front of the station. They said that they didn't know it was missing!!!! I said its been missing for quite a few years. They still didn't understand what I meant.

Then they said that the upper foyer was going to be closed and demolished anyway so no sign was going to be replaced. And the ONLY entrance would be via platform 4 in Station parade.

Now I understood that the upper foyer was going to be retained in the new station. After all there are stairs going from it and the bus stop there down to platforms 2 / 3 / 4.

And I know from the tests that NR did a few years ago that the bridge at the London end cannot be used for rush-hour crowds due to health and safety -  its simply not strong enough.

They then said that the whole station was going to be rebuilt. Hmm - there's no sign of that even being started - and Crossrail money has run out.

But we do need the station name back!!!

Caught a train from West Drayton on Saturday on my way home. Saw the new TFL ticket machines and took a look. There's a tile on the front screen offering collection of tickets. I would expect these are the same machines that have appeared at Hayes. Incidentally the new machines at West Drayton are inside the ticket hall, I didn't see any outside where they used to be. How do you buy a ticket when the ticket hall is closed?

West Drayton - another unfinished building site. Inaccessible ticket machines - perfect excuse for the chancers of West Drayton to board sans tickets - if they are caught.

But the whole issue of these ticket machines is that they DON'T accept cash. This is blatant discrimination against anyone who doesn't have a credit card - like millions of under age kids for a start.

I thought that the deal was, having taken over the ticket offices, TfL would ensure that they were manned throughout operating hours in order that tickets could be purchased over the counter?

More shock horror from the TfL takeover.

It appears that the HConn stock is being used for the Hayes - Pad shuttles. No more wifi, no more tables, thread bare seats (from idiot tourists putting feet on them), toilets that don't work, etc. They are still the same sickly grey and orange, but with small TfL roundels for branding. The mind boggles. 

Also today there were the usual daily Heathrow Term. 4 cancellations. i.e. no or few HConn services regardless of stock.

All par for the course.
 

Signal failure at T2/3, closing T4 branch since mid-afternoon, hence TfL Rail operating 1 tph service Pad-Hayes and 1 tph service to T5, although TfL Twitter account announcing services terminating and beginning at T2/3.

There was also a problem for quite a while closing the Up Main at Southall.

And I wonder how many for Heathrow missed their flights?

I believe it will be normal Crossrail stock (345) for Hayes-Pad and existing 360s (Connect trains) for Heathrow to Pad.

Worth noting that won't have the issue of toilets not working when the 345s fully take over..as they don't have any.

For a transitional period until the Heathrow branch signalling is made to work with 345s.  I thought this had been widely discussed for a few months, it shouldn’t have been a surprise to CJB.

Paul

And GWR has not been slow in advertising that there are now additional 12-car 387 sets.

Until maybe some go off to be HEX-ified.

Last evening I caught a purple TfL pack-em-in cattle train back from Paddington to the permanent building site that is Hayes Station. They didn't have first aid available when I got off - my back side was SORE after 20 minutes sitting on the concrete hard seats!!! When we got held up outside Ealing B. there were no driver announcements - just a digital Dorothy in some kind of pseudo-'posh' English. No toilets - not even for the disabled. No low entrances for wheelchair users to board. No tables. No wifi. No comfort. At least the doors didn't drop off - as reported on the Eastern Section of this grossly over-budget-monies-now-run-out 'Tin Lizzie Line.' I never thought that I'd say it but "bring back GWR or even BR."

Just like cattle trains - no toilets. What are folks to do, especially the disabled or infirm? Maybe we all need to bring water bottles as T4L keep advising - but empty ones.

Just like all underground trains - no toilets.  What are folks to do?

Don't get me wrong mind you, I am of the opinion that all national rail trains, including Crossrail ones, should have toilets.   The low entrances without any stepping will be available at all Elizabeth Line only stations (i.e. the new ones), but differing platform heights and different train designs stopping at existing stations makes that impossible at the existing ones I'm afraid.

Speaking as someone who occasionally goes all the way from Ealing Broadway to Debden on the Central Line without benefit of toilets, I feel your pain! (so to speak!!!)

At least the seats are soft. Crassrail trains the seats are like concrete. Breeze blocks would be an improvement.

To be honest, with the introduction of Crossrail the daily commute to my office will be halved, perching on a breeze block-esque seat in that context is a small price to pay, for me anyway...…….if worst comes to worst I'll bring a cushion!  :)

I found them to be softer than the seats on a GWR Class 387 that they’re replacing.

People manage with going before or after their journeys, just like would happen while travelling by other land-based transport. Or indeed while being out and about in public as toilets aren't always easy to find. I regularly travel on Class 707s (no toilets) for 40 minutes and have grown up using the London Underground so maybe I'm just used to it rather than not going far from a toilet just in case I may need it.

The Class 345s are, just like the S8 Stock on the Metropolitan Line, a suburban train designed as a compromise to cater for the majority of shorter peak hour journeys but with also some features aimed at the longer travellers. The layout is needed in order to cope with the huge demand for travel in the peaks (and for much of the day in Zones 1-3) plus also to get people on/off trains in a timely manner. Users of Southall, Ealing Broadway, Stratford, Forest Gate etc would love to actually be able to board the trains in the peaks (especially during disruption) instead of having to leave early in case their train is too full and they get left behind. The 387s used temporarily are seriously poor at coping with crush loads with their narrow doorways and aisles (the old 165s had a bit more space around the doors).

But more importantly, especially for one forum member, no buffet, no restaurant and no trolley!!!!  :o

The 345 are more a derivative of the class 378 or the more recent class 710 than the S stock, however you are right the 345's are designed as people movers specifically in from Hayes into and out of London likewise on the East side.

387's are outer suburban stock intended more for the Oxford / Newbury fasts and semi fasts and not the inner local stoppers. 

The 387's are working class 165 timetabling, the do make up lost time easier due to their better acceleration and braking
 

I know not to whom you could possibly be referring !

The brave new world of TfL Rail staff excelled themselves today - Sunday. At about 10.30 am Hayes & Harlington 'Station' (actually the permanent TfL building site) had trains calling at all four platforms - with no discernible pattern.

There were no less than SEVEN blue-uniformed staff on duty. All had been well trained to do - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Well maybe just to check that passengers touched in or out.

So without guidance or announcements intending passengers were waiting on all four platforms.

On platform 4 there were about 30 passengers waiting for Paddington. On platform 2 there were about 40 waiting for Paddington.

A GWR train was due in 5 minutes on platform 2. Despite two staff in the upper foyer no-one directed passengers to platform 2 - they were too busy playing on their iPads. On platform 4 there were four staff and yet no-one directed anyone to platform 2 either. The GWR train drew in - packed to the gunnels - when suddenly there was a mad rush from platform 4 over the bridge to platform 2. Most never made it. The GWR driver simply closed the doors and left.

One can only hope for improvements to customer service when the new station is eventually built in ten years' time. The service can't get any worse.

It is annoying when GWR are running 8 carriage consists but STILL refuse to open the doors of the rear most due to short platforms - even then the platforms at Hayes are no longer 'short.'

But as witnessed tonight the situation is getting ludicrous. GWR are now running 12 consists. However as well as failing to open the doors on carriage 8, they LOCK the last 4 carriages and refuse to allow anyone into them.

This was a critical issue this evening due to few trains actually running between Reading and Paddington in the rush hour. Trains were over-crowded - as usual - yet GWR was running deliberately locked empty carriages.

What a shambles.

Usual shambles at Paddington this evening. The gateline staff at platform 11 are quite aggressive so everyone did a touch in. Then after sitting in a purple TfL train to Hayes to Harlington for 15 minutes going no-where there was an announcement - indistinct as usual - but the word 'cancelled' featured.

We all trooped off. The gates were open. No touch outs.

Most of us trooped round to platform 12 where we had to touch in again. Nice little earner for TfL - double touch ins and no touch outs = unresolved journeys or maximum penalty fares. What a bunch of crooks TfL are with Oyster.

On 12 there was a GWR electric 8 car going to Reading. We boarded. No announcements. Just before departing the CIS display said Ealing Broadway then West Drayton. Idiot platform staff in orange tabard said "yes, the train will call at Hayes."

We got to Ealing Broadway. Then sped past Southall and sped past Hayes. Many then had to get off at West Drayton and catch a train back.

What a french-connection-UK-ing way to run a railway. GHUA when Crassrail really starts.

Can't you express your views by not using thinly disguised swear words..... ???

While I agree it is frustrating, I very much doubt the platform staff gave out incorrect information on purpose.  They can only go on the details they have been given which, as we know, is sometimes lacking.  They are on the frontline and must get equally fed up with seemingly being the last to know at times.

Umm... Not claiming to be an expert on Oyster, but I have a feeling that the gates being open doesn't necessarily mean that they won't validate a touch out...

Indeed, you can touch out on an open gate no problem, though what percentage of people realise that and what percentage would just wander through an open gate I don’t know? 

I’m not sure whether then touching in again after only a few minutes to get to a different platform would incur an extra charge, or whether the system reconsiders that sort of thing could happen at a big terminal like Paddington?  Does anyone know?

The Oyster system reacts differently depending on the elapsed type since a touch in.

Between 0 - 2 minutes of a touch in, a touch out will deduct the maximum fare; re-touch in within 45 minutes and the maximum fare is automatically refunded (excludes buses and trams) and a new journey started as long as the touch out is at a barriered gate line.

Between 2 and 30 minutes it charges the cheapest single fare.

Over 30 minutes it charges 2 incomplete journeys.

In all cases you can apply for a refund from TfL.


Open gatelines do not stop Oyster/Contactless cards from being touched - since Fit for the Future there are many stations where the barriers are open for most/all of the day due to only 1 member of staff on duty.  You are still required to validate your Oyster/Contactless or purchase a ticket.