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All across the Great Western territory => Looking forward - after Coronavirus to 2045 => Topic started by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 00:04:39



Title: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 00:04:39
From the GWR Press office / part of their press release

Quote
Today - March 19th - RAIL COMPANIES TOGETHER LAUNCH LONG-TERM PLAN TO BOOST THE WEST’S ECONOMY BY £9.45BN

* The plan sets out how an improved partnership railway of the public and private sectors will secure prosperity for the region

* It explains how commitments made by the railway working in partnership nationally – to strengthen the economy, improve journeys, boost communities and provide rewarding careers – will deliver for the West of England

* Passenger groups and local businesses unite in support

In the plan, the partnership railway of public and private sector companies outlines their commitments to improving services for customers, better connecting communities and providing employees with rewarding careers, as well as boosting the region’s economy.

The plan, called In Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity – The West of England sets out how £2.4bn invested in operating, maintaining and renewing the railway is enabling new and improved services. These will better connect people and businesses to key economic hubs in the region and beyond to London, Wales, the Midlands and the North. This is in addition to existing upgrades to electrify the Great Western main line and around £500m of private investment in a brand-new fleet of trains to increase the frequency, quality and speed of journeys.

To deliver the plan’s commitment to boost communities through localised decision making and investment, the partnership railway will deliver £50m of station and car park investment to improve and enhance the gateways to the villages, towns and cities the railway serves. Customer and Communities Funds from Great Western Railway and Crosscountry will see £4.5m spent on projects that meet social needs, educate or engage local people to the tune of , like bringing disused buildings back to life, developing history or heritage activities or encouraging bicycle use.

Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of Great Western Railway, said:
“The West’s railway, a partnership of the public and private sectors, is fundamental to the region’s prosperity, connecting workers to jobs, businesses to markets, and people to their families and friends. Working in partnership, the railway’s plan will spread growth to communities across the region and drive unprecedented improvements for our customers. All this adds up to a more secure and brighter future for people who work in rail.”

Andy Cooper, Managing Director of CrossCountry Trains, said:
“The commitments in our plan - to the region’s economy, rail customers, communities and our people – set us on course to build on previous improvements and move forward together. Customers will benefit from simpler ticketing, more services and better value for money. We will transform our communities’ social and economic futures by enabling more people to benefit from the opportunities provided by rail.”

Mark Langman, route Managing Director for Network Rail’s Western Route, said:
“The railway plays a key part in moving the people and goods that power our economy faster and more efficiently, connecting businesses in the West of England to markets all over the world. By supporting our existing talent, moving forward as one team and encouraging new recruits with workforce training, we are securing a bright future for our employees and the communities in which they live and work.”

The launch of this plan is accompanied by an explanatory and more detailed booklet which we have mirrored at http://atrebatia.info/ecoboost_planlaunch.pdf .


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 19, 2018, 00:33:19
Thanks for posting that Great Western Railway press release, grahame.  ;)

I'm going to pick up just one paragraph - simply to draw the fire from some of our regular readers here:

Quote
Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of Great Western Railway, said:
“The West’s railway, a partnership of the public and private sectors, is fundamental to the region’s prosperity, connecting workers to jobs, businesses to markets, and people to their families and friends. Working in partnership, the railway’s plan will spread growth to communities across the region and drive unprecedented improvements for our customers. All this adds up to a more secure and brighter future for people who work in rail.”

Hmmm.  :-X



Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 10:17:52
Site launched at 10:00

http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html

Please excuse earlier date stamps - we were anticipating a launch just after midnight.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: SandTEngineer on March 19, 2018, 12:35:00
Thanks for posting that Great Western Railway press release, grahame.  ;)

I'm going to pick up just one paragraph - simply to draw the fire from some of our regular readers here:

Quote
Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of Great Western Railway, said:
“The West’s railway, a partnership of the public and private sectors, is fundamental to the region’s prosperity, connecting workers to jobs, businesses to markets, and people to their families and friends. Working in partnership, the railway’s plan will spread growth to communities across the region and drive unprecedented improvements for our customers. All this adds up to a more secure and brighter future for people who work in rail.”

Hmmm.  :-X

...hmmm from me as well.  Its not a bright future for the over 600 S&T staff made redundant over the past 18 months due to no forward work bank being available.  Where are those lost skills going to come from in the future?  :P


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 19, 2018, 16:36:12
The press release is [here] (https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/news/2018/march/rail-companies-together-launch-long-term-plan-to-boost-the-wests-economy-by-945-bn)

Web site - http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html

Full brochure - our mirror at http://atrebatia.info/ecoboost_planlaunch.pdf

Quote
Rail companies together launch long-term plan to boost the West’s Economy by £9.45 bn

Monday 19th March 2018

* The plan sets out how an improved partnership railway of the public and private sectors will secure prosperity for the region

* It explains how commitments made by the railway working in partnership nationally – to strengthen the economy, improve journeys, boost communities and provide rewarding careers – will deliver for the West of England

* Passenger groups and local businesses unite in support

The companies running the railway in the West of England have come together today to set out their long-term plan for the region’s railway, which will secure £9.45bn of additional economic benefits for communities along the Great Western main line.

In the plan, the partnership railway of public and private sector companies outlines their commitments to improving services for customers, better connecting communities and providing employees with rewarding careers, as well as boosting the region’s economy.

The plan, called In Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity – The West of England sets out how £2.4bn invested in operating, maintaining and renewing the railway is enabling new and improved services. These will better connect people and businesses to key economic hubs in the region and beyond to London, Wales, the Midlands and the North. This is in addition to existing upgrades to electrify the Great Western main line and around £500m of private investment in a brand-new fleet of intercity trains to increase the frequency, quality and speed of journeys.

To deliver the plan’s commitment to boost communities through localised decision making and investment, the partnership railway will deliver £50m of station and car park investment to improve and enhance the gateways to the villages, towns and cities the railway serves. Customer and Communities Funds from Great Western Railway and CrossCountry will see £4.5m spent on projects that meet social needs, educate or engage local people, like bringing disused buildings back to life, developing history or heritage activities or encouraging bicycle use.

The plan will see the creation of more than 250 apprenticeships in the decade to 2024, part of a ‘Get into Railways’ scheme developed with The Prince’s Trust. This is in addition to apprenticeships created by rail businesses based across the West.

The Western route is already the second busiest freight route into the capital and by continuing work to support ‘jumbo’ aggregate trains that increase the amount of freight that can be moved in one go, the partnership railway’s plan will also free up additional capacity for more trains to run.


Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of Great Western Railway, said:

“The West’s railway, a partnership of the public and private sectors, is fundamental to the region’s prosperity, connecting workers to jobs, businesses to markets, and people to their families and friends. Working in partnership, the railway’s plan will spread growth to communities across the region and drive unprecedented improvements for our customers. All this adds up to a more secure and brighter future for people who work in rail.”


Andy Cooper, Managing Director of CrossCountry, said:

“The commitments in our plan - to the region’s economy, rail customers, communities and our people – set us on course to build on previous improvements and move forward together. Customers will benefit from simpler ticketing, more services and better value for money. We will transform our communities’ social and economic futures by enabling more people to benefit from the opportunities provided by rail.”

Mark Langman, route Managing Director for Network Rail’s Western Route, said:

“The railway plays a key part in moving the people and goods that power our economy faster and more efficiently, connecting businesses in the West of England to markets all over the world. By supporting our existing talent, moving forward as one team and encouraging new recruits with workforce training, we are securing a bright future for our employees and the communities in which they live and work.”

Karen Boswell OBE, Managing Director of Hitachi Rail Europe, said:

“Investment is bringing a new lease of life to this historic rail route, and we are very proud to be part of an industry team delivering for passengers. Hitachi is embedding itself in The West by introducing 93 new trains, investing £120million in a new depot network and choosing regional business to supply parts for our new trains.”

Russell Mears, chair of the freight group at the Rail Delivery Group, said:

“The railway moves millions of tonnes of freight every year, getting goods made in the West to markets all over the world and from the world into the West. It keeps lorries off the region’s road and makes the air cleaner. By coming together with a plan to improve further, the West’s rail companies are committing to do even more for the economy, businesses and communities in the region, now and for the generations ahead.”

James Durie, Chief Executive, Chambers of Commerce & Initiative at Business West:

“For the local and regional economy to thrive we need better connectivity, better, more reliable trains and better, more reliable infrastructure. It is critical that passenger and freight rail services work collaboratively with Network Rail on our local and national routes. It is great to see them coming together to launch a plan that seeks to strengthen the economy and to boost communities.”

Vinita Nawathe, Chair of TravelWatch SouthWest, said:

“Passengers want value for money, reliable services that run at times they wish to travel and on which they can get a seat.

"TravelWatch SouthWest has long advocated a joined-up railway as the backbone of an integrated transport system that is responsive to the needs and aspirations of the communities it serves, enabling economic growth and social inclusion by connecting people to jobs, education, services and each other.  The measures described in the West of England Partnership Plan are a good step towards realising this vision."

Keith Walton, Chairman, Severnside Community Rail Partnership, said:

"Passengers using local and regional trains in the West of England are very conscious of the need for improvement and for more investment to cater for growth. We need to promote rail travel, and communities will therefore very much welcome this commitment from all parts of the rail industry to deliver more capacity and better, reliable and easily accessible train services."

Graham Ellis, TransWilts Community Rail Partnership, said:

"TransWilts partnership, with GWR, has enabled a 600% growth in passenger numbers on our service. We welcome further strengthening of that partnership and local decision making and investment so that together we can sustain that growth, continuing the success from Swindon to Westbury and expanding it to build traffic onward to Salisbury and Southampton.

"Direct trains from Swindon and Chippenham to Salisbury, and to Southampton Airport will bring significant benefits to those places, and to towns along the way. We have already proven we can do it, and this announcement takes us forward to helping to continue that success."

Cllr Geoff Brown, Cornwall Council, Portfolio holder for Transport, and Chair of the Peninsula Rail Taskforce:

“Cornwall Council works closely with both Network Rail and our local train and bus operators. We are now developing our own One Public Transport system for Cornwall that will bring together operators to improve bus and rail services. This includes the two trains an hour to provide a clock-face timetable between Plymouth and Cornwall that GWR will deliver next year.

“This could not happen without GWR, NR and Cornwall Council investing in trains and track, and we are delighted to see this new partnership railway approach, that can only mean better services for Cornwall and the South West.”

Thelma Sorensen OBE, Chairman, Cornwall Business Council, said:

"The four commitments in this single plan recognise the vital importance of the railway to our local economy in the far South West in terms of reducing journey times, which are essential to the business community, driving growth and improving connectivity to key economic hubs. It builds on the investments that have already been made and the fact that it has been signed up to by all parts of the railway is to be very much welcomed."

Paul Britton, Chief Executive, Thames Valley Chamber of Commerce, said:

“Thames Valley Chamber of Commerce members have identified in the Business Manifesto that transport infrastructure is critical to the continued attractiveness of the Thames Valley as a place to locate, run and grow a business. It is more important than ever for all key stakeholders in the region to work together to deliver improvements to the capacity and quality of rail travel as well as potential new routes and stations to ensure the railway can play a key part in supporting business in the Thames Valley.”

Bill Wells, Bedwyn Trains Passenger Group (BTPG), said:

"The Bedwyn Trains Passenger Group (BTPG) welcomes this initiative. It’s great to see the coordination of multiple parts of the network into a single strategic plan. The services provided by GWR are fundamental to the economic prosperity of Hungerford, Great Bedwyn, Marlborough and surrounding areas.

“The new services and trains, to be introduced in January 2019, will cut commuter times into London, allow for more relaxed and modern journeys and contemporary flexible working practises. BTPG has a great working relationship with GWR. The access and inclusion we have with their senior management makes our lives so much easier."



Notes to editors

Great Western Railway (GWR) provides high speed, commuter, regional and branch line train services. We help over 100 million passengers reach their destinations every year - across South Wales, the West Country, the Cotswolds, and large parts of Southern England.

We’re currently seeing the biggest investment in the network since Brunel so we can offer more trains, more seats, and shorter, more frequent journeys and continue the network’s heritage of helping connect more businesses to new and prosperous markets. Through a series of initiatives we aim to be a good neighbour to the communities we serve and are committed to making a positive social impact in those regions. Learn how we're Building a Greater West at GWR.com. GWR is a FirstGroup company. 


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: JayMac on March 19, 2018, 19:39:36
Does anyone else think the slogans in these missives, and some of the content, has the faint whiff of a socialist manifesto?

Is this a warning shot at those advocating renationalisation? It does seem more than a little political.

One bullet point caught my eye. "Delay Repay where not already offered." its obviously being, ahem, delayed on GWR for political reasons.

JFDI. 


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Southernman on March 19, 2018, 20:59:30
The area covered in the Western plan includes a significant chunk of South Western Railway territory and the Wessex area of Network Rail. Can someone direct me to the section covering these lines please?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: 1st fan on March 20, 2018, 00:10:05
I don't see a single mention on that site of the Cotswold line. I'm not surprised though ::)


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: martyjon on March 20, 2018, 06:25:14
The press release is [here] (https://www.gwr.com/about-us/media-centre/news/2018/march/rail-companies-together-launch-long-term-plan-to-boost-the-wests-economy-by-945-bn)

I don't see Mr. Hopwood in the piccy, me thinks, that's unusual for him to miss a photo call but then again perhaps his booked train was cancelled due to a lack of train drivers and the advice to catch the next available service meant he arrived too late for the photo call which took place promptly at the scheduled time as the Press photographer, due to another commitment, could'nt be held because an earlier train was cancelled.

Wonder how much consequential loss Mr. Hopwood would claim for the consequential loss of a photo opportunity.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: martyjon on March 20, 2018, 06:47:57
...hmmm from me as well.  Its not a bright future for the over 600 S&T staff made redundant over the past 18 months due to no forward work bank being available.  Where are those lost skills going to come from in the future?  :P

Thanks for letting 'the cat out of the bag' SandTEngineer, no wonder there have been so many signalling failures in the recent past.

When I was a yuf I bought blank tapes and recorded pop records on them for my walkman. These were the product of a company that went be the name of BASF. I wonder if the moderators of this forum should now add BASF to the acronyms page of this forum in anticipation of post-Easter Bristol Area re-Sigballing Failures.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Bob_Blakey on March 20, 2018, 08:43:23
'...and reducing the time between Exeter and London Paddington to just two hours by early 2019.'

On what basis? All 'fast' services between Paddington and the south-west of England or just a couple of headline trains to show willing? How early in 2019? Many of the 'commitments' in this document are so vague, presumably deliberately so, as to be almost meaningless.

Of course for old gits such as me this particular promise only represents a reversion to the 1980's when I regularly travelled between Exeter & Paddington in 2 hours.   


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2018, 08:57:51
If the hourly service calling pattern that’s proposed comes to fruition then it should be almost all of the trains meeting that sort of journey time.  That’s why there’s the Paddington to Exeter semi-fast also planned, so stops like Newbury, Westbury and Castle Cary can be removed from the Cornwall trains.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 20, 2018, 09:10:27
If the hourly service calling pattern that’s proposed comes to fruition then it should be almost all of the trains meeting that sort of journey time.  That’s why there’s the Paddington to Exeter semi-fast also planned, so stops like Newbury, Westbury and Castle Cary can be removed from the Cornwall trains.

If there really IS an hourly semi-fast, yes.  And if the fast were to overtake the semifast at Exeter with the semifast continuing to Paignton or Plymouth ...


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2018, 10:33:28
Semi-fasts are planned to be every two hours aren’t they?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2018, 12:13:53
Yup, that was my understanding - and yes, it was meant to get to Exeter before a Cornwall train in order to connect.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Timmer on March 20, 2018, 12:22:09
Yup, that was my understanding - and yes, it was meant to get to Exeter before a Cornwall train in order to connect.
I think it's a good solution all round so long as the connection is cross platform at Exeter for those less able or with heavy luggage.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2018, 12:51:19
If, for example, the fasts left PAD at xx:00 and the semi-fasts every other hour at xx:30, then the next fast would probably be about 10 minutes behind at Exeter which would be ideal.  If however the fast left at xx:00 and the semi at xx:10 the wait at Exeter would be much longer.  Worst case is the fast at xx:00 and the semi-fast just before it at xx:50, but got overtaken by the fast at Westbury.

All times are examples, but those interested parties, such as Graham, will be pushing for the first of those scenarios I suspect!


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 20, 2018, 17:45:31
If the hourly service calling pattern that’s proposed comes to fruition then it should be almost all of the trains meeting that sort of journey time.  That’s why there’s the Paddington to Exeter semi-fast also planned, so stops like Newbury, Westbury and Castle Cary can be removed from the Cornwall trains.

If there really IS an hourly semi-fast, yes.  And if the fast were to overtake the semifast at Exeter with the semifast continuing to Paignton or Plymouth ...

Semi-fasts are planned to be every two hours aren’t they?

Planned, yes.

Why?

Start them a little earlier from Paddington - every hour - fairly soon after the super-fast.  Add stops at Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn.  Have the super-fast overtake them at Exeter St David's - possible at either side of same platform in both directions.

If, for example, the fasts left PAD at xx:00 and the semi-fasts every other hour at xx:30, then the next fast would probably be about 10 minutes behind at Exeter which would be ideal.  If however the fast left at xx:00 and the semi at xx:10 the wait at Exeter would be much longer.  Worst case is the fast at xx:00 and the semi-fast just before it at xx:50, but got overtaken by the fast at Westbury.

All times are examples, but those interested parties, such as Graham, will be pushing for the first of those scenarios I suspect!

Indeed I would be pushing for the overtake-at-Exeter scenario.   Bit puzzled as to what could possibly be argued for in timings where they did not connect.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2018, 17:48:32
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 20, 2018, 17:59:49
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.

Ah, right. That really puts paid to the idea of a slow train leaving Worcester at 13:06, calling at Ashchurch, Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester, Cam and Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood, Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill and getting into Bristol Temple Meads at 14:39, to be followed in by an express from Dundee at 14:43, doesn't it?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Adelante_CCT on March 20, 2018, 18:03:47
Quote
Add stops at Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn

Where would that leave Theale and Thatcham? Terminate those at Newbury? Thus potentially using 387s instead of an 800?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2018, 18:04:49
And I suspect XC has been trying to persuade GWR to amend their schedule for some time. Grandfather rights are probably in GWRs favour until that section gets a re-write. Oh hang on.....check the 2019 timetable....


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 20, 2018, 18:12:02
Quote
Add stops at Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn

Where would that leave Theale and Thatcham? Terminate those at Newbury? Thus potentially using 387s instead of an 800?

There's a lot of sense in running two electric trains an hour to Newbury.  Whether there's a lot of reasons against such an idea, I don't know.   Kintbury / Hungerford / Bedwyn to Theale commuter flows?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2018, 18:17:55
Agree with Bedwyn as that is where the locals will terminate (using bi-modes? - that's the current idea isn't it?), but if you want the others you may as well extend the Bedwyn's to Westbury. What flow is trhere from those local stations to beyond Exeter (which would require a second change)_?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: martyjon on March 20, 2018, 20:06:24
Ah, right. That really puts paid to the idea of a slow train leaving Worcester at 13:06, calling at Ashchurch, Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester, Cam and Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood, Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill and getting into Bristol Temple Meads at 14:39, to be followed in by an express from Dundee at 14:43, doesn't it?

Wouldn't have thought so, XC could overtake a local whilst the local service is serving Gloucester,  is there still a loop at Haresfield just before Standisn Junction, there was a loop at Charfield once but that may be gone even so switch the local to the reversible Up Charfield line at Yate South as far as Westerleigh Junction then of course an overtaking move can be undertaken now the 4th platform at Bristol Parkway is up and running, just needs a bit of slick signalling from Didcot,


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2018, 20:45:44
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.

Something like this I could see it panning out most favourably for connections:

SEMI-FAST            FAST
PAD  09:30           PAD  10:00
RDG  09:55           RDG  10:25
NBY  10:10           -
PEW  10:28          -
WSB  10:46          -
CLC  11:04           -
TAU  11:24           TAU  11:38
TVP  11:36           -
EXD  11:50          EXD  11:58

The fast would continue to Penzance, and some of the semi-fasts could continue to Paignton.  You could possibly overtake the semi-fast at Taunton if running late (still maintaining connections for everyone except Tiverton Parkway passengers), or depart the semi-fast 10 minutes earlier to give a bit more of a performance buffer, but a less optimal connection at Exeter.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: JayMac on March 20, 2018, 21:32:21
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.

Ah, right. That really puts paid to the idea of a slow train leaving Worcester at 13:06, calling at Ashchurch, Cheltenham Spa, Gloucester, Cam and Dursley, Yate, Bristol Parkway, Filton Abbey Wood, Stapleton Road and Lawrence Hill and getting into Bristol Temple Meads at 14:39, to be followed in by an express from Dundee at 14:43, doesn't it?

Which isn't really comparable to the fast/semi fast hypothetical connection at Exeter St Davids. That following XC from Dundee doesn't offer connections at Bristol Parkway or Bristol Temple Meads.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 21, 2018, 04:22:37
Which isn't really comparable to the fast/semi fast hypothetical connection at Exeter St Davids. That following XC from Dundee doesn't offer connections at Bristol Parkway or Bristol Temple Meads.

Gloucester to Taunton and Plymouth journey connections?   Not the biggest flow ...

The fact that the Cross Country express arrives into Temple Meads so close behind the more local service it's been following for so long without making useful onward connections does indeed make it "not really comparable" - or rather it means that if you do compare, there's a darned sight more reason for doing it at Exeter (which ChrisB suggests "NR will not allow") than for doing it at Temple Meads (where it happens every hour already, but without the dividend of connections)


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 21, 2018, 04:29:39
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.

Something like this I could see it panning out most favourably for connections:

SEMI-FAST            FAST
PAD  09:30           PAD  10:00
RDG  09:55           RDG  10:25
NBY  10:10           -
PEW  10:28          -
WSB  10:46          -
CLC  11:04           -
TAU  11:24           TAU  11:38
TVP  11:36           -
EXD  11:50          EXD  11:58

The fast would continue to Penzance, and some of the semi-fasts could continue to Paignton.  You could possibly overtake the semi-fast at Taunton if running late (still maintaining connections for everyone except Tiverton Parkway passengers), or depart the semi-fast 10 minutes earlier to give a bit more of a performance buffer, but a less optimal connection at Exeter.

Totally agree with the principle.

Tuning ...

Tempted to start the "09:30" earlier to serve virtually every station west of Newbury. Extra traffic lets it step up to hourly. Don't yet have the full performance envelope for class 802 for detailed suggestion. Enabler for Devizes Parkway. In proposals I have seen, the Tiverton Parkway stop is in the EXPRESS schedule (!) ... and that's because so much of their traffic is P&R from Cornwall and South / North / West Devon to London; that Tiverton stop would allow the semi-fast to make calls in the future at Wellington and/or Cullompton.



Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: martyjon on March 21, 2018, 08:51:57
That would generate an awful lot of *extra* delay minutes during disruption as the fast crawls behind an already delayed slow. I'm not sure NR would agree to a timetable like that.
Something like this I could see it panning out most favourably for connections:

SEMI-FAST            FAST
PAD  09:30           PAD  10:00
RDG  09:55           RDG  10:25
NBY  10:10           -
PEW  10:28          -
WSB  10:46          -
CLC  11:04           -
TAU  11:24           TAU  11:38
TVP  11:36           -
EXD  11:50          EXD  11:58

The fast would continue to Penzance, and some of the semi-fasts could continue to Paignton.  You could possibly overtake the semi-fast at Taunton if running late (still maintaining connections for everyone except Tiverton Parkway passengers), or depart the semi-fast 10 minutes earlier to give a bit more of a performance buffer, but a less optimal connection at Exeter.
Totally agree with the principle.

Tuning ...

Tempted to start the "09:30" earlier to serve virtually every station west of Newbury. Extra traffic lets it step up to hourly. Don't yet have the full performance envelope for class 802 for detailed suggestion. Enabler for Devizes Parkway. In proposals I have seen, the Tiverton Parkway stop is in the EXPRESS schedule (!) ... and that's because so much of their traffic is P&R from Cornwall and South / North / West Devon to London; that Tiverton stop would allow the semi-fast to make calls in the future at Wellington and/or Cullompton.

Tempted to start a sub-thread of this thread, The Forums Vision, and the above can be the first post on that thread.

My first post would be, complete the electrification to Bristol-part-on-Avon via Bath-on-Avon and then electrify the four tracked Filton-on-Bradley Brook Bank of Bristol Part-on-Frome followed by the Henbury-on-Trym Loop and the Branch to Severn Beach-on-Severn.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: ChrisB on March 21, 2018, 12:41:49
I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 21, 2018, 12:55:06
I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 21, 2018, 14:20:40
I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.

You also dilute the benefit in terms of journey times to places like Castle Cary if you make too many stops, but then again an hourly frequency to there, Pewsey and Westbury is obviously of benefit.  Certainly Hungerford might have a case, but not so sure about the traffic levels from Kintbury and Thatcham heading west.  Perhaps they could run one to/from Frome every other hour and one to/from Exeter the other hour making those stops Graham suggests?  That would reduce the demand on resources, yet still tick as many boxes as possible.  They would likely be 5-car sets off peak though, so would there be enough seats?

Tiverton Parkway is indeed a bit of a special case, so perhaps stopping the fast trains there is better than the semi-fasts, but of course that adds to the journey times to and from Exeter and further west from London.  Perhaps one fast train could stop at Tiverton but miss out Totnes, and the next do the opposite with the semi-fasts still calling to give an hourly frequency (at irregular timings) at Tiverton.  But then Totnes will suffer from what is largely an hourly service to and from London for much of the day.

Unless new stations such as Devizes Parkway, Collumpton, and Little Bedwyn are very firmly in the pipeline (i.e. under construction or fully funded) then whilst you might have one eye on the future, the service shouldn't be specified around them in my opinion.

Lots to juggle to find the best compromise, and no matter how many you please, there's bound to be someone who ends up with a worse service!   :-\


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 21, 2018, 16:43:01
I'm not sure how/whether there are sufficent IETs to step up to hourly on the semi-fast.....aren't they all allocated (either in service or being serviced)

Oh - it's a pretty good bet that ordering will have been pared down to provide just enough trains to handle the initial requirements and number being serviced at any time.

Looking at London to Exeter - semi-fast every 2 hours is probably 4 trains, rising to 7 trains if you make it every hour. If the London to Exeter semi-fast also takes on the roll of the Bedwyn services, I think that's three trains available to add to the four of the two-hourly service - your same total of 7.   Not sure if long enough is allowed for turn around in these sums, nor it there are proposals to have more complex diagrams to use up the odd spare half hour.

You also dilute the benefit in terms of journey times to places like Castle Cary if you make too many stops, but then again an hourly frequency to there, Pewsey and Westbury is obviously of benefit.  Certainly Hungerford might have a case, but not so sure about the traffic levels from Kintbury and Thatcham heading west.  Perhaps they could run one to/from Frome every other hour and one to/from Exeter the other hour making those stops Graham suggests?  That would reduce the demand on resources, yet still tick as many boxes as possible.  They would likely be 5-car sets off peak though, so would there be enough seats?

Tiverton Parkway is indeed a bit of a special case, so perhaps stopping the fast trains there is better than the semi-fasts, but of course that adds to the journey times to and from Exeter and further west from London.  Perhaps one fast train could stop at Tiverton but miss out Totnes, and the next do the opposite with the semi-fasts still calling to give an hourly frequency (at irregular timings) at Tiverton.  But then Totnes will suffer from what is largely an hourly service to and from London for much of the day.

Unless new stations such as Devizes Parkway, Collumpton, and Little Bedwyn are very firmly in the pipeline (i.e. under construction or fully funded) then whilst you might have one eye on the future, the service shouldn't be specified around them in my opinion.

Lots to juggle to find the best compromise, and no matter how many you please, there's bound to be someone who ends up with a worse service!   :-\

I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on March 21, 2018, 16:51:29
Don't think you'll find any 387's beyond Newbury TG!

My understanding is that the Reading-Newbury "shuttle" will be 387's, but everything else 800's.

And as for....
Quote
Little Bedwyn
....you are joking II?


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 21, 2018, 21:34:22
I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?

Err ... we're looking at the second train in the hour.  The first one is none-stop London - Reading (not even calling at Taplow) the none-stop to Taunton ... current services is about one an hour but all sorts of stopping patterns. 

Having got string up all the way to Newbury (and what cost those of us further west are paying for the disruption this year!), logic is to run 2 x electric trains into Newbury each hour, two passenger trains west of Newbury - the express I mentioned above that does the 3 hours which is make or break for the Plymouth economy, and one serving nearly all intermediate stations.  Its case is made without new stations, by the way (answering another post), but it would be an enabler should one be built.


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 22, 2018, 08:25:23
I agree it's starting to sound like a "stopper" to the South West if this wish list becomes reality - I'm sure Theale, Thatcham, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn etc all warrant a service however surely these should be provided by 387s allowing the 800s to be "fast", stopping at major stations on their way to the South West, cutting journey times as much as possible and making the train a more attractive option?

Otherwise it's one step forward and two back?

Err ... we're looking at the second train in the hour.  The first one is none-stop London - Reading (not even calling at Taplow) the none-stop to Taunton ... current services is about one an hour but all sorts of stopping patterns. 

Having got string up all the way to Newbury (and what cost those of us further west are paying for the disruption this year!), logic is to run 2 x electric trains into Newbury each hour, two passenger trains west of Newbury - the express I mentioned above that does the 3 hours which is make or break for the Plymouth economy, and one serving nearly all intermediate stations.  Its case is made without new stations, by the way (answering another post), but it would be an enabler should one be built.

Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!)  ;)

It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!)  :)





Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: grahame on March 22, 2018, 08:33:57
Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!)  ;)

A jocular choice based on your forum name of a station that would clearly not be logical!

Quote
It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!)  :)

HSTs were designed for that (and look at them now!) ...

There are some long stretches out in the "sticks".   Pewsey to Westbury.  Castle Cary to Taunton - but indeed the term is subjective. Add Bruton and you may have "all stations". And you may have a logical service too, with the fast train exchanging passengers both ways with the slow train at Exeter.  If not IETs, then perhaps there's something that could be cascaded with fewer carriages between really fast power cars - can't image what that could be though  ;D


Title: Re: Rail companies launch "Partnership for Britain’s Prosperity"
Post by: TaplowGreen on March 22, 2018, 09:12:32
Not sure where the relevance to Taplow sits in the context under discussion? (Although it does have c250,000 passengers a year, versus less than 100,000 for Kintbury!)  ;)

A jocular choice based on your forum name of a station that would clearly not be logical!

Quote
It is a good example of my point however - I wouldn't expect IETs to stop there - local stations and the railway generally are surely best served by frequent and reliable stopping services to larger stations/interchanges where longer distance services can be picked up?

If your aspiration is to get to a place where "nearly all intermediate stations" are served, then "semi fast" is going to be a very subjective term indeed - exactly how many stations are involved, and what (roughly) are the gaps between them?

Surely IETs are designed for long stretches at high speed, not stopping every few minutes to pick up half a dozen passengers out in the sticks? (.....and I write that as someone who lives out in the sticks!!!)  :)

HSTs were designed for that (and look at them now!) ...

There are some long stretches out in the "sticks".   Pewsey to Westbury.  Castle Cary to Taunton - but indeed the term is subjective. Add Bruton and you may have "all stations". And you may have a logical service too, with the fast train exchanging passengers both ways with the slow train at Exeter.  If not IETs, then perhaps there's something that could be cascaded with fewer carriages between really fast power cars - can't image what that could be though  ;D

"HSTs were designed for that (and look at them now!) ..."


..................say no more.



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