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Journey by Journey => London to the Cotswolds => Topic started by: DaveHarries on April 12, 2018, 00:01:02



Title: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: DaveHarries on April 12, 2018, 00:01:02
Evening all,

For anyone interested there are now two diagrams for Class 800s on RealTimeTrains for services between London Paddington and Cheltenham Spa / Hereford, commencing Monday 25th June 2018. As far as I can tell the diagrams are:

5G11 0713 North Pole IEP Depot - London Paddington
1G11 0736 London Paddington - Cheltenham Spa
5L50 0956 Cheltenham Spa - Cheltenham Spa
1L50 1036 Cheltenham Spa - London Paddington
1G38 1336 London Paddington - Cheltenham Spa
5L80 1556 Cheltenham Spa - Cheltenham Spa
1L80 1620 Cheltenham Spa - London Paddington
5L80 1850 London Paddington - North Pole IEP Depot

5G29 1058 North Pole IEP Depot - London Paddington
1G29 1136 London Paddington - Cheltenham Spa
5L67 1356 Cheltenham Spa - Cheltenham Spa
1L67 1436 Cheltenham Spa - London Paddington
1W02 1722 London Paddington - Hereford
5P51 2128 Hereford - Hereford
1P51 2151 Hereford - London Paddington
5P51 0131 London Paddington - North Pole IEP Depot

In addition, effective Monday 02nd July, there will be a Class 800 diagram from Stoke Gifford depot which will also provide Class 800 runs for Hereford and more for Worcester:

3P12 0330 Stoke Gifford IEP Depot - Hereford
1P12 0528 Hereford - London Paddington
1D18 0851 London Paddington - Oxford
5P24 0954 Oxford - Oxford
1P24 1101 Oxford - London Paddington
1W25 1221 London Paddington - Worcester Shrub Hill
5P61 1456 Worcester Shrub Hill - Worcester Shrub Hill
1P61 1522 Worcester Shrub Hill - London Paddington
1W36 1752 London Paddington - Worcester Shrub Hill
5P67 2013 Worcester Shrub Hill - Worcester Foregate Street
1P49 2059 Worcester Foregate Street - London Paddington
5P49 2347 London Paddington - North Pole IEP Depot

HTIOI,
Dave


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: ChrisB on April 12, 2018, 06:54:26
Hereford-Hereford? Positioning move?


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: phile on April 12, 2018, 09:03:07
Hereford-Hereford? Positioning move?

To cross over


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on April 12, 2018, 16:08:06
Are those for single or doubled-up IETs? They appear to be replacing HSTs, and the 05.28 from Hereford and 17.22 from Paddington, in particular, need the full capacity... but I'd be surprised to see 5+5s running on the Cotswold Line before work has even started on the platform extensions.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 12, 2018, 21:06:11
Stopping boards are up for all lengths of IET trains.  Could these be debuts for the 9-car units though?  Although possible, it will be a right pain to have 2x5 Cars until extensions are built, especially at places like Hanborough and Honeybourne.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: Wizard on April 20, 2018, 18:21:30
The first two diagrams are certainly intended to be 9 car 800s.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: ChrisB on April 24, 2018, 18:34:20
Selective on a 9car will be little different to an HST


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: CMRail on June 02, 2018, 19:44:01
I’ll take to this thread then,

I took to Rail Forums and some very passive aggressive people started arguing over the size of a train so I’ll take to here.

When the service between Cheltenham Spa and London Paddington are almost hourly, what size units will be allocated to them? 5-car or 9-car and if 5-car what about peak services and where would the 9cars be allocated?

Thanks


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: Timmer on June 02, 2018, 22:47:27
I’ll take to this thread then,

I took to Rail Forums and some very passive aggressive people started arguing over the size of a train so I’ll take to here.

When the service between Cheltenham Spa and London Paddington are almost hourly, what size units will be allocated to them? 5-car or 9-car and if 5-car what about peak services and where would the 9cars be allocated?

Thanks
We are a little, sorry a lot more friendly than some on the above said forum.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: CMRail on June 02, 2018, 23:19:11
Passove aggressive wasn’t the word..
a selective group of people on said forum was providing false information and turning it into a petty argument with mods.

Anyway. :D


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: stuving on June 02, 2018, 23:26:29
I’ll take to this thread then,

I took to Rail Forums and some very passive aggressive people started arguing over the size of a train so I’ll take to here.

When the service between Cheltenham Spa and London Paddington are almost hourly, what size units will be allocated to them? 5-car or 9-car and if 5-car what about peak services and where would the 9cars be allocated?

Thanks

The original planning assumption for the IEP programme was for 5-car trains, doubled up for the two each way that fall within the peak at Paddington (7-9 inbound and 5-7 outbound). Which is not a surprise, given there were not then going to be any 9-car bi-modes. Now, with more trains and all bi-modes, there is a lot more flexibility. Part of that is the extra option of diagrams that send a 9-car train to Cheltenham once in a day and to other destinations as well.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 03, 2018, 09:26:26
The exact patterns formations won’t have been decided upon yet, as the timings of the new service hasn’t been decided upon.  But there’s the option of 5, 9 or 10 car working with a ‘commitment’ that no peak arrivals into London in the morning, or departing from London in the evening will be any less than 9-cars.

So, I’d imagine most off-peak workings will be 5-car, with 9 and 2x5 in the peaks.  The odd 9 or 2x5 car may well work off-peak as well to balance out the workings, and there is a possibility that some might run as 10 between London and Swindon and 5 between Swindon and Cheltenham.  I doubt 2x5 services will operate until all planned platform extensions are completed.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: CMRail on June 10, 2018, 12:00:40
Start was moved forward to the 11th, however seems like now will be 18th due to a delayed delivery. Will have to wait and see now.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: grahame on June 10, 2018, 12:15:27
... But there’s the option of 5, 9 or 10 car working with a ‘commitment’ that no peak arrivals into London in the morning, or departing from London in the evening will be any less than 9-cars. ...

Alas, I think that "commitment" has already been broken.  Unless it was caveated with "once the delivery of all the new trains and all the training we need to do is completed".   It might make sense to run 10 car London to Reading, train divides for Cheltenham Spa and Bedwyn.

Come to think of it ... how are they going to run peak Bedwyn commuter trains from London otherwise, meeting their commitment, but with only a five car turn back siding? 


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 10, 2018, 12:56:29
Come to think of it ... how are they going to run peak Bedwyn commuter trains from London otherwise, meeting their commitment, but with only a five car turn back siding? 

I would imagine the peak Bedwyn's will run through to Westbury/Frome like they do now, so the turnback length won't be an issue.  There would also be the option of splitting a 2x5 car unit at Reading, one portion working on to Bedwyn.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: broadgage on June 10, 2018, 14:20:50
I would be very doubtful about any commitment to run only 5+5 or 9 car trains during the peaks.
Was not a similar commitment given regarding other services that have ALREADY been downgraded to DMU operation, and a significant number of single 5 car units have run on rush hour services.

I would regard full length trains as a future aspiration rather than a commitment.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: grahame on June 10, 2018, 15:37:24
I would be very doubtful about any commitment to run only 5+5 or 9 car trains during the peaks.
Was not a similar commitment given regarding other services that have ALREADY been downgraded to DMU operation, and a significant number of single 5 car units have run on rush hour services.

I would regard full length trains as a future aspiration rather than a commitment.

Having said some of the negative, I am very VERY happy to have just changed off a 2 car 150 that I've been on for two and a half hours to continue my homeward journey on an IET.  Sure, it'll be another 15x or 16x for the last two stops, but they're good for that.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: bobm on June 17, 2018, 13:19:03
There is an issue at Hereford apparently with the train being a matter of inches too long for the signal section at one platform at the station.   

Network Rail have only recently discovered it and are working on a fix.  It is only an issue when another platform is occupied. 

Therefore the 17:22 from Paddington is likely to remain an HST for the moment with the IET transferred to the Great Malvern departure an hour later.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 17, 2018, 15:58:26
There is an issue at Hereford apparently with the train being a matter of inches too long for the signal section at one platform at the station.   

Network Rail have only recently discovered it and are working on a fix.  It is only an issue when another platform is occupied. 

Therefore the 17:22 from Paddington is likely to remain an HST for the moment with the IET transferred to the Great Malvern departure an hour later.

Yes, a 9-car IET would be too long for either of the arrival platforms at Hereford in that nothing else could be routed into the other platform until it had departed, and currently that train is due to sit there for an hour or so.  I had assumed the workings would somehow change so that it was only in the platform long enough to unload, but clearly not.

As for Network Rail only recently discovering it, I and others could have told them as soon as the trains were ordered!

At least Ledbury tunnel, whom many said the trains would not fit through, isn't causing any problems at all.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on June 21, 2018, 09:44:01
0825 from Worcester to Paddington today was a 9-car - first one I’ve encountered on the line.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: CMRail on August 21, 2018, 16:57:11
1742 to Cheltenham was covered by IET whilst the Hereford issue was on however 1722 to Hereford is now IET with 1742 back to HST. From 03/09, more Cheltenham diagrams change over:

UP DIRECTION
1L10 0528 Worcester SH - Paddington
1L36 0831 Cheltenham - Paddington
1L58 1236 Cheltenham - Paddington

DOWN DIRECTION
1G02 0640 Swindon - Cheltenham
1G21 0936 Paddington - Cheltenham
1G60 1742 Paddington - Cheltenham


I am also told that Stonehouse Platform Extention should be finished on the 25th, which will then mean 10 cars are cleared for the line.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: simont1952 on August 22, 2018, 14:27:23
Hi,

I rode on my first Class 800 on Saturday 18th August (8:47 Malvern Link to Paddington 5-car).

A pleasant enough experience and not too noisy. But it was my impression that the train did not use the electric wires from Didcot to Paddington. I could hear the diesel engines on the whole journey in.

Am I mistaken or was there some engineering work on the OHP equipment?

I saw a 9-car set in Didcot station as we joined that line and it had no pantographs raised.

Regards



Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: bobm on August 22, 2018, 14:32:26
Welcome to the forum simont1952 !

There have been some IETs in service which have been restricted to diesel only.   I am not sure how many.  It is therefore possible the one you travelled on was one of them.

You don't say which direction the nine car was going.  They do switch from electric to diesel in that area.  I think it is at Moreton Cutting just to the east of the station, so if heading to Swindon it may have completed the changeover as it arrived at the platform.


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: paul7575 on August 22, 2018, 15:12:41
It’s also been mentioned elsewhere that it’s sometimes the drivers - apparently a few are yet to be qualified on electric operation of IEPs.

Paul


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: CMRail on August 22, 2018, 17:14:19
It’s also been mentioned elsewhere that it’s sometimes the drivers - apparently a few are yet to be qualified on electric operation of IEPs.

Paul


I would have assumed that that would be apart of the training though?


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2018, 22:53:54
It wasn’t part of the training for the very first drivers, but has been part of it for some time now and I don’t think there are any drivers still to be trained in AC operation - if there are it is a tiny minority.

The list of temporary diesel only units currently stands at about seven across the 5 and 9-car fleet, and it fluctuates daily.  Seven is highest I can remember seeing, but then there are more units than ever entering service now.

It is an interesting question as to how much more focussed Hitachi would have been had AC only Class 801 units been entering service now as originally planned.

I guess it matters little until next May, when, presumably, the delayed big new timetable will commence as currently planned.  Until then they are more or less able to keep to existing HST schedules on diesel.

There are still way to many niggly faults affecting availability, performance and the customer experience, but I remain of the opinion that there is a sound product underneath somewhere.  Hitachi need to up their game.



Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: JayMac on August 23, 2018, 10:34:18
Hitachi need to up their game.

Hitachi Rail Europe's MD is an alumna of FirstGroup. She gained her management chops at First Great Western and First Capital Connect.

So, based on her history, I'd say she's doing fine. 'Barely adequate' is the management style she would have learned.  :P


Title: Re: Class 800s to Cheltenham & Hereford wef 25/06/2018
Post by: broadgage on August 23, 2018, 12:06:14
Hitachi need to up their game.

Hitachi Rail Europe's MD is an alumna of FirstGroup. She gained her management chops at First Great Western and First Capital Connect.

So, based on her history, I'd say she's doing fine. 'Barely adequate' is the management style she would have learned.  :P

I was not aware of this. Management experience at FCC and at FGW is far from a recommendation for any senior railway related job.
"barely adequate" might be considered unduly generous for anything related to FCC.



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