Great Western Coffee Shop

Looks like GWR have quietly rolled out their mobile tickets to a larger audience! Not looked into it too much myself but seems like its now good for walk up tickets aswell as advances at stations that have had the updated barriers that can read the barcode tickets.

Can't see any news article or PR release about it mind you, but here is their updated webpage:

https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/mobile-tickets (https://www.gwr.com/plan-journey/tickets-railcards-and-season-tickets/mobile-tickets)

Having seen the scanners at Oxford and Didcot Parkway I am not sure who this would work if you are travelling in a group and have multiple tickets? Or is it only for individuals, the FAQ on the GWR website doesn't mention anything about this.

From press release and email just received

Probably worth sharing whole press release:

Sorry I should have made it clearer I wasn't thinking of Groupsave, but when I go out with my family I will buy 4 tickets on-line on my account and this will end up on my phone. Will this be as 4 tickets or a single ticket for 2 adults and 2 children? And when I get to the gates will it recognise that I have either a single ticket for 4 people on my phone and therefore it needs to let 4 people (2 adults and 2 children) through? Or will I need to pass the phone back over the gate so that each ticket can be scanned?

To add from the covering letter


Rather confirms that this is a stage ...  also comment made that we need no longer worry about losing tickets - just about having phone batteries run out or phones being stolen  ;D
 

... or software - at your end or theirs - mysteriously losing your ticket or failing to show it. Or would you, (or anyone else with professional experience in the field), rule out that possibility?

Rather ironic that this paperless revolution is being advertised on the seats of the trains on a printed leaflet.  Some might say that paper and ink would have been better spent on a letter from the MD explaining and apologising for the recent hopeless service offered up by GWR.

So it looks like actually the mobile tickets are only available if the origin or destination is a GWR gated station.

After a bit of a Twitter dialogue, it sounds like this is because they want the ticket to be scanned at a gateline at some point in the journey. Which sounds sensible. Until you realise that, unless these tickets bar break of journey (which I don't believe is the case), you can board late / finish early on your journey, potentially doing a journey that is between two ungated stations. I can see GWR's thinking here, but in reality it doesn't make much sense. I assume they are just banking on people just not doing that.

I can't help feel it is a bit of a kick in the teeth, as at least for me, the very reason I think these are useful is for those of us at ungated stations that have less ticketing facilities anyway!

I would suggest checking T&C for these very carefully as certainly other TOC that have tickets via mobile do NOT allow ANY ammendments / or refunds unlike paper versions. :o So great for train companies bank balance.

Used one of these to swerve round the time consuming difficulties at the station of buying an off-peak ticket from Didcot to Reading on the 9:01.

Wouldn't open the barrier at Didcot; maybe understandable as it was a few minutes before 9:00.

Less understandable was that it wouldn't open the barrier at Reading either, around 9:20.

Now I'm sure a paper ticket has done that in the past, but unless barriers now won't pass any valid off-peak tickets until some arbitrary later time (when?) there is an increase in the inconvenience factor having to be let through manually,

Does the fact that it went unscanned through the journey actually make it usuable a second time by the unscrupulous? If so this makes the barrier refusal counter-productive.

No problems on the return.

Incidentally I did see that the ticket contained a term disallowing breaks in journey.

I wonder how enforceable that actually is? Since as far as I know you don't actually see that until after you have bought the ticket and I can't see any wording on the GWR website or app to imply that is the case (indeed the site just links to the normal T&C's for the ticket types, which obviously for some of them say BoJ is always allowed).

I started using mobile tickets on my trips to Swindon from Taunton, but I've gone back to paper/card tickets because:

1) There doesn't seem to be a way to add the GWR mobile ticket to the iPhone wallet (please correct me if I'm wrong), so I have to faff about unlocking the phone, starting the GWR app, loading the ticket etc etc. Much quicker to hand over a card ticket.

2) Several times the ticket readers used by the GWR on-train staff have failed to read the ticket on my phone, do they need a connection? Result more faffing and delays while they try to scan the ticket,

3) Between Temple Meads and Taunton there is patchy mobile phone signal, the GWR app seems to need a connection to even start let alone show a mobile ticket. I had a bit of a run-in with a CrossCountry ticket checking person because I couldn't load the ticket. This would be fixed by being able to add the mobile ticket to the wallet.

4) At Taunton, the platform 2 wide barrier doesn't have a mobile ticket reader that I can see. if I have my bike on the platform then I have to faff about using the intercom system to get someone to let me out or in.

Way too  much faffing involved with mobile tickets which (in my opinion!) which is not offset by the faff of having to collect card tickets. A good idea not very well implemented, hopefully this wilkl chanhe.

I've also noticed that the GWR app crashes - on an iPhone - if I ask it for a card ticket to collect at the station.

I noticed that the T&Cs say 'no break of journey' in either direction. I thought any Anytime card ticket did allow a break of journey on the return?

rant over

From the National Rail Conditions of Travel:


Provided you are advised of any specific conditions prior to purchase then TOCs can use this clause to add additional conditions, such as a prohibition on break of journey, to the use of e-tickets.

Stick to paper tickets folks. What you are getting with GWR e-tickets is a more restricted product for the same price as a paper ticket.

Add to that, a paper ticket won't be subject to software failures and doesn't require battery and mobile signal to be valid.

Are you advised prior to purchase though? I certainly cannot see anywhere on the information web page / faq / T&Cs that states that GWR mobile tickets prohibit break of journey apart from on the actual ticket screen after you have bought one. Was going to double check on the app / website, but the transactional part of the site seems to be down, yay.

Yes, I'm trying to check the details prior to purchase too, but the app is currently buggered.  ::)

Another reason to stick to paper tickets.

I have asked for clarification on break of journey.

Surely "no break of journey is " is just logical (at least if you are a GWR ticketing person)? Look back at this post:


OK, maybe it should say "no break of journey at stations with gates that can't read the codes" - and that's assuming staff don't have scanners (yet). But it would look very odd if it said (in effect) "you can break your journey only at stations with barriers with scanners, or no barriers when unstaffed unless the staff have hand scanners"! And note that any gated station with no scanners yet would be left out as origin/destination, too.

Agree that the transactional part of GWR is down. Has been since before 10am this morning.

The whole of their web site is down.

The GWR web site has been playing silly buggers for a few days now
Maybe they need Grahame to sort it out for them 😁

I know my limits ...

More than the usual number of Javascripts needing repairs? :-D

Cross post to keep this thread current too - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16464.msg236995#msg236995 for general GWR web site issue.


Can't even find the server this morning. Advise for customers:


From The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6182606/great-western-railway-website-and-app-down-leaving-customers-unable-to-book-tickets/)

Poor show ... still down 24 hours later, without even a holding page.

I have checked their domain name registration and it has not expired, so someone should be able to put up a quick apology / status page on another server like we did on our crash a months ago, to keep people informed.

In fact, if someone from GWR would like to call me and redirect your DNS (AAA records) to 83.170.93.77, I'll set it up for you. Price will be an evening return train from the next timetable change  ;D - and I can keep the backup page for you for as long as you run a service after 10 pm

Perhaps they used some Spanish developers who were now free after celebrating their recent UK implementation success.

I used a mobile ticket last week (1) for my journey to Slough and paper tickets (2) for my return journey to Cardiff on Tuesday

1) I was convinced I had made a bike reservation for my journey to Slough (as I had for the return journey to Cardiff more on this later...) but there was no indication on the mobile ticket about it.
This led to me having to phone GWR to reserve a bike space which was a kerfuffle s I was passed from web booking to telesales and back again

When I disembarked at Slough the revenue protection officer at the gate could not read my mobile ticket adding further time to my journey.

2)  Paper tickets - for my bike reservation to Cardiff (Splitting at Swindon) I picked my tickets up from a machine at Slough and was rather taken aback to be given approximately 10 tickets back. I mean wtaf? I was then asked if I had made a reservation before boarding the train and was asked to show it. It took me ages to find the relevant 'ticket' as it did for using the barriers at Cardiff Central.

What a bloody carry-on (deliberate pun)

I saw somebody using one of these get on at Keynsham the other day. So GWR but not gated. She just showed her phone screen to the guard when he came round. Of course her destination could have been a gated station – does it work if only one end is gated?

At the moment, that’s what GWR are saying. They always tweet “we are in the process of rolling it out across the entire network”

If it wasn't the "she" there I'd have asked if it was me you saw!
But yes, at the moment they are only offered if the start or end of the journey is gated, and specifically bar break of journey (presumably so you can't just get off at a station that isn't gated).
Out of curiosity did the guard scan the QR code on her screen or just look at it? I've had a bit of a mix regarding this. I suspect they are meant to scan the code, but its a bit faffy with them having to get the camera app up on their device etc.

That is no longer the case for most tickets. The National Rail Conditions of Travel allow break of journey on all except certain special ticket types, and GWR cannot break the national conditions of travel just to suit themselves.   That has now been clarified and accepted by GWR (( contrary to earlier comment in this thread;  condition can be applied to NEW fares and ticket types not the old standard ones )) - though I'm not sure how far the clarification has been implemented into systems.

A word of caution - the RDG "easier fares" consultation could come up with recommendations that change the National Rail Conditions of Travel, and if that happens a number of useful and very fair things you can do could be swept away in the interest of "simplification", co-incidentally making some journeys more expensive or less convenient in the process.

I think he just looked at it.

In which case GWR may want to update their app because it is still saying that break of journey is not allowed for mobile tickets (that is of today, as I used a mobile ticket this morning and specifically checked for the wording). Is there anywhere where GWR have publicly confirmed this wording is incorrect?

Just thought I'd chip into this thread and write my experience of using an e-ticket for the first time about a month ago.

I was travelling from Heathrow Airport and was not able to plan my journey in advance. Because I was travelling from there to Pewsey on a Sunday trains were sporadic. Made worse by the line closure at the time meant that I had to get bustitution from Swindon. Whilst trains to Swindon were frequent, the replacement buses to Pewsey were as sporadic as the trains would have been, as they were just that, a replacement.

I realised being at terminal 5 I had a chance that if I used the Hex direct to Paddington, I would have 5 minutes to change at Paddington for a Swindon train that would connect me just in time to a replacement bus. Failing to connect to this bus would have added at least two and a half hours to the journey time.^*

I was concerned about the tight connection time at Paddington and the time involved in purchasing (or even buying online and collecting) a paper ticket before boarding the connecting train. After boarding the Hex much to my complete astonishment I noticed I had a very good 4G signal in the tunnels. I can only assume they have some sort of leaky feeder arrangement going on in there for mobile services. I much prefer that over some dodgy wifi where I have to sign in / give all my data away etc.

I purchased the tickets on the web from GWR. I already had an account, but it said I needed the app in order to use the purchased e-tickets. A bit annoying - surely this can be done with web only technology?
So I downloaded the app (I was just starting to emerge from the tunnels by this stage) and was pleasantly surprised I could at least log in with my GWR account and the tickets were there ready and waiting. This was fairly good from a user experience standpoint.

The Hex arrived at PAD a few minutes late making the connection even tighter. A dash straight to platform 1 (no ticket barriers) and straight onto the train just in time for it to depart.

I had bulky luggage, the train was full and standing. I was very, very tired and didn't fancy fighting my way through the train to find somewhere to stand (I boarded near the micro-buffet). Despite the fullness of the train, there was however plenty of seats still in first class. So I sat there with a view to upgrading should seats not be wanted by other ticket holders. I felt this was not likely, since the train was already pulling out by now.

After about 10 minutes the train manager came through asking to see tickets. I showed my e-ticket and asked if I could get a first upgrade on such a ticket. He said absolutely and proceeded to try scan my e-ticket. This took absolutely ages due to the wobbling of the train and the camera on his device struggling to focus. I felt a little embarrassed and sorry for the TM having to put up with this. After that he then sold me the first upgrade which took no time at all. All in all I probably wasted several minutes of the TMs time due to the e-ticket.

Great though this technology is, it would have been much better and quicker for both me and the TM to simply purchase the entire ticket on-board the train - the good old fashioned way. The only reason I bought an e-ticket was so I could make the connection and not risk a penalty fare / prosecution.

When I arrived at Swindon, the ticket gates appeared to be equipped with optical scanners, but they were not working. Staff at the gate-line just waved me though.

10 days later when I made the return journey (same return e-ticket, again via Swindon), gate-line staff saw I was about to use the e-ticket scanner and just waved me though without inspecting my phone at all. I was not checked on the train, and arrival at Paddington was at a non gated platform so the ticket went unchecked.

At this moment in time I intend to stick to paper tickets where possible as they are less faff when on board. Despite all this technology, I struggle to see how much progress has really been made, except saving on ticketing stock.
---------
_{* I know there are other routes available such as the bus to Reading. From terminal 5 you can also get a fairly good connection with a local bus to Staines and then train to Reading. However on this day due to the fact some of the journey was already a replacement bus I was fairly determined to keep my exposure to buses to a minimum. Although at least on a bus you normally get a seat.}

There are two things at least that the app does that GWR can't or won't trust standard web stuff to do:
1. Store the e-ticket securely (i.e. tamper-proofly) so you can show it even without a network connection.
2. Display it in whatever form the reader needs (if it's not necessary, it at least avoids arguments about who's at fault).

The mobile apps are not as convenient as they could be as they aren't integrated with the likes of Apple / Google Pay. If they were there would be no need to juggle cards to read the CVC from the back etc, or for that matter enter the long number in the first place. It could all be authorised through the mobile payment system as the cards held within there are already verified and payment could be authorised through fingerprint or PIN. In this regard they are really behind the times.

The gateline at Didcot for one has no scanner on the wide gate.

Can I get an update please. 

Question asked of me "mobile tickets and multiple people on a single purchase"

1. Does everyone in a group travelling together need their own phone - even the children?

2. How does it work with Groupsave?

Apps display the number of tickets purchased as separate tickets, you tap left and right to swap between each ticket.

I have just read through this entire thread for the first time. I encouraged Mrs FT, N! to use the app to save me having to spring her ticket from the TVP TVM, as happens. Having read this thread, I can see that she was right to maintain her Luddite approach.