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Journey by Journey => London to the West => Topic started by: DaveHarries on April 21, 2018, 01:32:27 am



Title: Class 802s
Post by: DaveHarries on April 21, 2018, 01:32:27 am
Morning all,

For anyone wondering I understand, from another forum, that the first two diagrams to be operated by the Hitachi-built Class 802s have been penciled in to be as follows:

1A72 0553 Plymouth - London Paddington
1D20 0950 London Paddington - Oxford
1P26 1201 Oxford - London Paddington
1C89 1633 London Paddington - Exeter St. Davids
1A98 1955 Exeter St. Davids - London Paddington

1C04 0730 London Paddington - Penzance, via. Bristol Temple Meads
1A98 1400 Penzance - London Paddington
1C96 2003 London Paddington - Plymouth

Both diagrams understood to be planned for 2x 5-carriage trains and to start Monday 16th July.

I have been giving these trains some thought in regards summer operation on the Par to Newquay route and I wonder whether the through Newquay - London Paddington trains in summer will continue once the current Class 43 HSTs have gone. What I could see happening would be either:

1. The trains to call at Par where they would detach from each other with one set continuing to Newquay as a 5 carriage train. The set which runs the Newquay part then rejoins to the set it earlier detached from for the rest of the trip to London Paddington

2. Same as 1 but the second set continues to Truro and terminates there. For the return journey both trains join up again at Par for the trip back to London Paddington

3. No Class 802s up the Newquay line at all but additional local stoppers running instead between Par and Newquay

Saying that I was on a 10-car Class 800 from Bristol Parkway to Cardiff Central on Friday 20th April and the set quite easily managed a hill start on the incline immediately before Cardiff Central so I wonder if the gradient from Tywardreath Highway LC to Luxulyan would be a problem for a 5-car Class 802: it might not be.

HTIOI,
Dave


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on April 21, 2018, 07:42:57 am
Already mentioned here:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18792.msg235407#msg235407

I'll leave the mods to mull over merging with the existing IET thread, or deciding to have a seperate Class 802 topic...


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on April 21, 2018, 07:52:55 am
Already mentioned here:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18792.msg235407#msg235407

I'll leave the mods to mull over merging with the existing IET thread, or deciding to have a seperate Class 802 topic...

Ah - the nightmare of having such a busy forum that topics such as that those previous 802 diagrams got swamped with follow ups.    I am inclined for the moment to leave this thread here alone and let discussion develop - decide on merges, etc, later on for clarify as it heads from being a current conversation towards an archived resource. I'm minded that at than point a separate 802 thread may make the data easier to find.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on April 21, 2018, 10:41:16 am
...
Saying that I was on a 10-car Class 800 from Bristol Parkway to Cardiff Central on Friday 20th April and the set quite easily managed a hill start on the incline immediately before Cardiff Central so I wonder if the gradient from Tywardreath Highway LC to Luxulyan would be a problem for a 5-car Class 802: it might not be.

If you ever find any 80x stuck on a hill, with its wheels not slipping (or trying to), you are entitled to be very rude about Hitachi.

The IEP requirement says they should be able to "start and climb any gradient encountered on the IEP Network" and (for avoidance of doubt) 1 in 37. And that applies to a nine-car with only one engine, though obviously that will never reach much of a speed.

The metaclass's figure of merit (fraction of weight on motored axles) is 0.59, versus 0.33 for an HST and 0.5 for all relevant DMUs. And it increases with passenger load, while for an HST in decreases.

The other thing needed is enough motor torque; that's a a matter of motor/drive design that Hitachi just have to get right. But the traction force needed to hold still on 1 in 37 would accelerate the train at 0.27 m/s2 on the level - and I'm sure they do that; it's well below the specified maximum of 0.75 m/s2 at zero speed.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Andy on April 21, 2018, 11:30:54 am
Morning all,



I have been giving these trains some thought in regards summer operation on the Par to Newquay route and I wonder whether the through Newquay - London Paddington trains in summer will continue once the current Class 43 HSTs have gone. What I could see happening would be either:

1. The trains to call at Par where they would detach from each other with one set continuing to Newquay as a 5 carriage train. The set which runs the Newquay part then rejoins to the set it earlier detached from for the rest of the trip to London Paddington

2. Same as 1 but the second set continues to Truro and terminates there. For the return journey both trains join up again at Par for the trip back to London Paddington

3. No Class 802s up the Newquay line at all but additional local stoppers running instead between Par and Newquay

Saying that I was on a 10-car Class 800 from Bristol Parkway to Cardiff Central on Friday 20th April and the set quite easily managed a hill start on the incline immediately before Cardiff Central so I wonder if the gradient from Tywardreath Highway LC to Luxulyan would be a problem for a 5-car Class 802: it might not be.

HTIOI,
Dave

I wonder if it might be worth trying out a split at Par, with a Newquay portion as you mention, and the second portion continuing to Falmouth rather than stopping at Truro. The set-up at Penryn (dynamic loop/platform length) might make this impracticable, though. 


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: ChrisB on April 21, 2018, 05:35:59 pm
Is there really enough traffic on the Falmouth branch for a 5car 802? hmmmm


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on April 21, 2018, 06:07:15 pm
Is there really enough traffic on the Falmouth branch for a 5car 802? hmmmm

Is there really enough traffic west of St Erth for a 5 car 802?

In all seriousness, I don't know the answer ChrisB.   However, I wonder whether there would be sufficient interest / extra traffic generated by through London trains from Cornish branches a couple of times each day - say late morning from each appropriate branch to London, and late morning / early afternoon from London to each appropriate branch.

Immediate issue one "what about stock efficiency / how would we get that in place".  Perhaps divert something that would head to Penzance to [Falmouth/other] with a connection into a branch unit at [Truro/other] for Penzance - is there some sort of model in the way the unit for the Newquay branch is provided post-peak?

Immediate issue two "would it be robust if the main line service was not running to time".

Potentially attractive if it were to bring more people to rail - on longer journeys too - off peak.



Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: DaveHarries on April 21, 2018, 06:19:21 pm
I guess that perhaps one of the branches could perhaps be experimented with for a through service to / from Plymouth at peak times: could be tried once per day to start with. Falmouth to Plymouth anyone? Or am I standing at the wrong platform (as opposed to barking up the wrong tree)? One thought here is that a 10-car unit could split at Truro with 5 carriages to Falmouth and 5 to Penzance with the Falmouth set (for example) joining a 5-car set at Truro on its return trip.

Dave


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on April 21, 2018, 06:20:49 pm
The metaclass's figure of merit (fraction of weight on motored axles) is 0.59, versus 0.33 for an HST and 0.5 for all relevant DMUs. And it increases with passenger load, while for an HST in decreases.

I should, for completeness, have given the numerical implications of FMWA. Given some simplifying assumptions of the usual kind, it tells you what wheel/rail friction coefficient is required to climb a given gradient (other than by momentum alone).

Here are the numbers for 1 in 37:

trainFMWA*coeff
5-car 80x0.590.046
9-car 80x0.560.048
e.g. 1660.50.054
4+2 HST0.490.055
8+2 HST0.330.082
4+2 HST/one power car dead   0.2450.110
8+2 HST/one power car dead   0.165    0.164
(*Some values rely more on guesswork than others.)

There's quite a difference between the top and bottom of that ranking order. Getting high levels of steel/steel friction isn't impossible, even as high as 0.2, provided you keep the track and wheels clean and dry (indoors is best). But it can't be relied on, so towards the bottom of the table the probability of "poor rail conditions" that stop your train is unacceptably high. Hence the rules about half-dead HSTs and steep banks.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: old original on April 21, 2018, 07:55:30 pm
I think the main problem with sending one down the Falmouth branch is platform length.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on April 22, 2018, 08:17:17 pm
I understand that a three car unit is the largest combo that can run on Falmouth in public service, providing it DOESN'T stop at Falmouth Town. FMT is only able to handle two cars.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on April 22, 2018, 09:11:18 pm
I understand that a three car unit is the largest combo that can run on Falmouth in public service, providing it DOESN'T stop at Falmouth Town. FMT is only able to handle two cars.

Fixable with selective door opening and some signage?  More of a concern would be increased station dwells if it were to fit in (or fail to fit) with the half hourly clockface. Delays could cause chaos for hours ....


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on April 22, 2018, 09:50:19 pm
Dwell time would inevitably increase due to pax shuffling along the locked carriages to those which are unlocked, even if carriages 2, 3 and 4 platformed at all Stations other than FMT. FMT would be horrendous with some pax inevitably moving through 2 carriages, if 2 and 3, or 3 and 4 were the chosen platformed vehicles. As much as I'd like to see 802's on Cornish Branches, other than NQY non stop the hurdles are far too great.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: eightf48544 on April 23, 2018, 08:43:36 am
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on April 23, 2018, 09:26:00 am
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

According to rail magazine last week:
Quote
Two more five-car ‘802/0s’ (802003/004) are on their way from Pistoia (Italy), where Hitachi Rail Europe is building the fleet. However, they are currently unable to travel through France due to strike action by SNCF.

That sounds very likely, as the sneaky strikes with three days at work at a time have severely impacted all SNCF freight workings.

Those are the second pair needed for the service launch, the first (from Kasado) already being here. And as 802s are minor variants on the 800s already in service, they hardly prototypes. They are first out of the newly-acquired Italian factory, which is in some respects more worrying - you can foresee a whole new set of teething problems.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RichardB on April 23, 2018, 10:28:35 am
I understand that a three car unit is the largest combo that can run on Falmouth in public service, providing it DOESN'T stop at Falmouth Town. FMT is only able to handle two cars.

Fixable with selective door opening and some signage?  More of a concern would be increased station dwells if it were to fit in (or fail to fit) with the half hourly clockface. Delays could cause chaos for hours ....

Fitting it in the half hourly service would be be the biggest issue, particularly with the knock-on effect of delays.   


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: LiskeardRich on April 23, 2018, 10:45:56 am
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on April 23, 2018, 03:34:28 pm
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.


They where shipped in via Southampton.   802004 & 802005 are stuck in Europe as the French,are well being a pain in the bum.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on April 23, 2018, 03:37:56 pm

For anyone wondering I understand, from another forum, that the first two diagrams to be operated by the Hitachi-built Class 802s have been penciled in to be as follows:

1A72 0553 Plymouth - London Paddington
1D20 0950 London Paddington - Oxford
1P26 1201 Oxford - London Paddington
1C89 1633 London Paddington - Exeter St. Davids
1A98 1955 Exeter St. Davids - London Paddington

1C04 0730 London Paddington - Penzance, via. Bristol Temple Meads
1A98 1400 Penzance - London Paddington
1C96 2003 London Paddington - Plymouth


In some ways I see this as a benefit as they are not on the busiest services, so if thing's go wrong like on the 800's then nobody will notice.  But on the other hand, given that it will be during the summer break, why not put them on the Cornish Riviera & Royal Dutchy, the busiest services to the Devon/Cornwall? Given that these trains are meant to be adding capacity benefits, I would of thought GWR would want to utilize that asap, rather than putting on services where they won't earn their money.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: old original on April 23, 2018, 06:14:38 pm
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.


Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on April 23, 2018, 09:44:39 pm
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.


Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....

802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Andy on April 25, 2018, 08:00:55 pm
Is there really enough traffic on the Falmouth branch for a 5car 802? hmmmm

Is there really enough traffic west of St Erth for a 5 car 802?

In all seriousness, I don't know the answer ChrisB.   However, I wonder whether there would be sufficient interest / extra traffic generated by through London trains from Cornish branches a couple of times each day - say late morning from each appropriate branch to London, and late morning / early afternoon from London to each appropriate branch.

Immediate issue one "what about stock efficiency / how would we get that in place".  Perhaps divert something that would head to Penzance to [Falmouth/other] with a connection into a branch unit at [Truro/other] for Penzance - is there some sort of model in the way the unit for the Newquay branch is provided post-peak?

Immediate issue two "would it be robust if the main line service was not running to time".

Potentially attractive if it were to bring more people to rail - on longer journeys too - off peak.


As with through services to Newquay, through services to Falmouth is really 'only' a summer timetable question and then maybe only at weekends. I wonder if overcrowding levels during summer months/festival times suggest either (a) there may be a case for longer trains/platforms or (b) there may be a market for a summer weekend through service.

The Falmouth line has been a real success story and, as was the case with St Ives (platform "re-"lengthened at St Ives following the opening of the Park & Ride at Lelant Saltings), it may be that rationalisation back in the day went a bit too far.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Umberleigh on April 26, 2018, 07:12:51 pm
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.

The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.

802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.


Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....

802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.

In theory.

Paddington to Bristol is seemingly a bit of a challenge for IETs right now, well according to Mark Hopwood that is


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on April 26, 2018, 08:59:11 pm
Quote
In theory.

Paddington to Bristol is seemingly a bit of a challenge for IETs right now, well according to Mark Hopwood that is

Probably because they aren't on full power output like the 802s will be.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on April 27, 2018, 07:51:37 pm
rumour has it that the prototyp 802 is marroned on teh franco/Germn border.
The French are saying "Non" to it being hauled to Calais. no safety case.
802001/802002 ran on Thursday in test to Penzance so must be in uk.
Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....
802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.
In theory.
Paddington to Bristol is seemingly a bit of a challenge for IETs right now, well according to Mark Hopwood that is

Bristol TM to Parkway is also a struggle too 1L01 regularly loses time after Narroways Junction, those that are unfamiliar with the area is up Filton Bank.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: PhilWakely on April 30, 2018, 03:40:13 am
Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....

802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how 'Dawlish conditions' were simulated. I doubt if hundreds of tons of sea water containing pebbles, sand and other detritus has been thrown at a unit under high wind conditions. I can understand why the conspiracy theories abound. It would be good PR from GWR/Hitachi to deliberately run an 802 through Dawlish under such conditions.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on April 30, 2018, 06:39:35 am
Quote
Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....
Quote
802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.
Quote
It would be interesting to find out exactly how 'Dawlish conditions' were simulated. I doubt if hundreds of tons of sea water containing pebbles, sand and other detritus has been thrown at a unit under high wind conditions. I can understand why the conspiracy theories abound. It would be good PR from GWR/Hitachi to deliberately run an 802 through Dawlish under such conditions.

Oos gonna pay for the standby assisting diesel locomotives stationed at Exeter and / or Newton Abbot ' just in case '.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on April 30, 2018, 06:44:14 am
Oos gonna pay for the standby assisting diesel locomotives stationed at Exeter and / or Newton Abbot ' just in case '.

Better to test it out and make sure all's OK on a single early unit than risk having the service fall apart as IETs start making routine journeys in passenger service along the seawall on 16th July.   BUT the test plan may be there, and we passengers on this forum simply be uninformed and needlessly worried.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on April 30, 2018, 06:52:39 am
BUT the test plan may be there ....

Yes, emergency waterproof roof covers to be deployed and roped down at Exeter and Newton Abbot as instructed. ::)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: DaveHarries on May 01, 2018, 11:49:55 pm
[.....] as IETs start making routine journeys in passenger service along the seawall on 16th July.
I am not now sure it will be 16th July. Although that is the date which has been touted I was looking on RealTimeTrains this evening and there is no 5C04 (the ECS working from North Pole depot) for 1C04 (0730 PAD-PNZ via. BRI) to be a Class 802 before Monday 30th July so it looks like there may be a delay of about 2 weeks. Unless they start it 16th July as previously touted and work the 0730 PAD-PNZ off another train in the meantime.

Dave


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on May 04, 2018, 01:29:24 am
The first pair of Class 802/0 sets assembled in Italy are on the move again through continental Europe after being delayed by striking SNCF staff.

For those with an understanding of French:
https://lapassiondutrain.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/hazebrouck-ce-jeudi-vsoe-rame-hitachi-1.html?m=1

They'll shortly join three 802/0s, built in Japan, that are already on test with GWR.

Whether everything is on schedule for an introduction of the 4 sets into passenger service on 16th July 2018 remains to be seen...


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on May 04, 2018, 01:10:48 pm
Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....

802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how 'Dawlish conditions' were simulated. I doubt if hundreds of tons of sea water containing pebbles, sand and other detritus has been thrown at a unit under high wind conditions. I can understand why the conspiracy theories abound. It would be good PR from GWR/Hitachi to deliberately run an 802 through Dawlish under such conditions.

Its not a "conspiracy theory" I've just been trying to find the video of the 802 going through Dawlish during high tides. The Voyagers have a problem with the resistor packs, when sea water gets on top it shorts them out and immediately applies the brakes.  The 802s have an automatic reset for this situation which should stop it happening. https://www.thebreeze.com/southdevon/news/local-news/dawlish-proofed-trains-being-trialled-at-nights/


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: ellendune on May 04, 2018, 01:24:42 pm
Its not a "conspiracy theory" I've just been trying to find the video of the 802 going through Dawlish during high tides. The Voyagers have a problem with the resistor packs, when sea water gets on top it shorts them out and immediately applies the brakes.  The 802s have an automatic reset for this situation which should stop it happening. https://www.thebreeze.com/southdevon/news/local-news/dawlish-proofed-trains-being-trialled-at-nights/

Good to see high quality journalism there - they appear to either think that the HST are the ones with the problem or that the voyagers are 40 years old!


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on May 04, 2018, 01:25:35 pm
From ;-

https://www.thebreeze.com/southdevon/news/local-news/dawlish-proofed-trains-being-trialled-at-nights/

Quote
The current ones, which are 40 years old, break down after the waves crash over them and flood the electrics.

Really !!!!


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on May 04, 2018, 10:31:21 pm
The first pair of Class 802/0 sets assembled in Italy are on the move again through continental Europe after being delayed by striking SNCF staff.

What is a bit ironic about that is that yesterday was a strike day. However, with roughly 40-50% of drivers and other front-line staff working, it never was a matter of "no goods trains possible". It was more a problem of planning these long and complicated workings, and having to give priority to passenger trains and some urgent/perishable goods.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Noggin on June 13, 2018, 03:11:17 pm
Its not a "conspiracy theory" I've just been trying to find the video of the 802 going through Dawlish during high tides. The Voyagers have a problem with the resistor packs, when sea water gets on top it shorts them out and immediately applies the brakes.  The 802s have an automatic reset for this situation which should stop it happening. https://www.thebreeze.com/southdevon/news/local-news/dawlish-proofed-trains-being-trialled-at-nights/

Plenty of places in Japan where you get Dawlish-style runs beside the sea, along with everything from sub-zero to tropical temperatures. Belgium on the other hand is not quite so demanding on rolling stock, which perhaps accounts for some of the issues


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: LiskeardRich on June 13, 2018, 03:47:34 pm
There’s a pair of 802s in Laira Parked up nearest The main road, been there for over a week.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Rob on the hill on June 13, 2018, 06:37:40 pm
Posted on Facebook yesterday: 802009 & 802010 in middle of freight train being moved to North Pole 12/06/18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPYDLufGsyY&feature=youtu.be

Guessing this is it on RTT:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R04908/2018/06/12/advanced


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: CharlieGCR on August 05, 2018, 04:51:54 pm
Seat Reservations for Monday, August 13 are booked as IET. So possible that this will be the start of operations. Staff tell me that it should be any of the next upcoming Mondays.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RichardB on August 05, 2018, 06:59:24 pm
Seat Reservations for Monday, August 13 are booked as IET. So possible that this will be the start of operations. Staff tell me that it should be any of the next upcoming Mondays.

Do you know which trains the seat reservations are booked as IET for?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 05, 2018, 07:15:05 pm
Information posted elsewhere has consistently stated 20 August (2018).


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: plymothian on August 05, 2018, 09:51:32 pm
Bookings are being taken 'as if' an IET, so when an HST rocks up you're stuffed if you aren't in A-F or have a seat number above 80 as the reservations are being superimposed onto the HST layout; if you're lucky anything from F-J will be squeezed in to what remains of F.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: old original on August 06, 2018, 10:16:24 am
Seat Reservations for Monday, August 13 are booked as IET. So possible that this will be the start of operations. Staff tell me that it should be any of the next upcoming Mondays.

Do you know which trains the seat reservations are booked as IET for?

0730 Pad - Pnz & 1400 Pnz - Pad


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on August 07, 2018, 10:04:29 pm
It has been confirmed to staff today that the following services will be operated by Class 802 IETs from Monday 20th August 2018.

1C04 0730 London Paddington - Penzance (via Bristol TM)
1A83 1400 Penzance to London Paddington

Realtime Trains confirms this information with the 5C04 ECS move coming off North Pole IEP Depot.


Mods. I still think this topic is on the wrong board. Took me a Google search to find it again. London to the West perhaps.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Umberleigh on August 08, 2018, 10:22:45 pm
Apparently it should have ran on three days last week but only did so one . Worryingly the two days it didn't run were days when Dawlish was closed to CrossCountry Voyagers.........  Conspiracy theories abound.....

802s have been tested and approved to work during bad conditions at Dawlish, they have an automatic reset on the resistor braking unit, something the voyagers don't have.

It would be interesting to find out exactly how 'Dawlish conditions' were simulated. I doubt if hundreds of tons of sea water containing pebbles, sand and other detritus has been thrown at a unit under high wind conditions. I can understand why the conspiracy theories abound. It would be good PR from GWR/Hitachi to deliberately run an 802 through Dawlish under such conditions.

Its not a "conspiracy theory" I've just been trying to find the video of the 802 going through Dawlish during high tides. The Voyagers have a problem with the resistor packs, when sea water gets on top it shorts them out and immediately applies the brakes.  The 802s have an automatic reset for this situation which should stop it happening. https://www.thebreeze.com/southdevon/news/local-news/dawlish-proofed-trains-being-trialled-at-nights/

I guess the seawater will cool down the overheating engines...?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on August 10, 2018, 08:09:35 am
1A72 the 0553 Plymouth - London Paddington is also now scheduled to be operated by Class 802 IETs (003 & 005) from Monday 20th August.

The double set is headed down to Devon & Cornwall from Stoke Gifford on the 15th or 16th for some staff training, along with depot clearance in Penzance. Then on Friday 17th there will be a low key non-passenger launch event with the set(s) travelling from Plymouth (Laira) to Exeter St Davids and return.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on August 16, 2018, 05:34:32 pm
Any updates on the 1C04 0730 London Paddington to Penzance, on Monday? I'd like to be on it from Plymouth through Cornwall if it runs as an IET.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on August 16, 2018, 06:30:10 pm
From a specific thread on 1C04:

I can confirm the possibly of an IET on this service as my ticket reservation was for coach J which, of course, does not exist on HST services.  This was corroborated by GWR station staff at RDG (Reading for those of you who don't know (don't want another telling off by Bignosemac with his sarcastic undertones  ;) )) and GWR's social media services.

All things being well, 1C04 WILL be an IET (or rather 2x5-car) from Monday, 20th August



A few times now I've mentioned that this thread is, to my mind, on the wrong board. The Class 802s are not limited to running in Devon and Cornwall.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on August 16, 2018, 07:17:32 pm
A few times now I've mentioned that this thread is, to my mind, on the wrong board. The Class 802s are not limited to running in Devon and Cornwall.

You are probably right ... it's been rather busy, and that's not been top of the pile.  But can't disagree with you - will move


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 16, 2018, 07:35:45 pm
A few times now I've mentioned that this thread is, to my mind, on the wrong board. The Class 802s are not limited to running in Devon and Cornwall.

You are probably right ... it's been rather busy, and that's not been top of the pile.  But can't disagree with you - will move

I won't mention that they will also see extensive use on the London to Oxford/Cotswolds route as well...  ;)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on August 16, 2018, 07:46:57 pm
I won't mention that they will also see extensive use on the London to Oxford/Cotswolds route as well...  ;)

They are, at least, west of London.  :P


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bradshaw on August 17, 2018, 08:41:09 am
Today at 1028 there seems to be the launch of the IET Class 802 by GWR. It is running from Penzance to Plymouth
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V08339/2018/08/17/advanced.

There was a clearance trial yesterday at Long Rock and it stayed overnight there


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on August 17, 2018, 12:47:39 pm
Coming back as a passenger / invited guest special

https://www.facebook.com/gwruk/videos/2167865336816552/


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: broadgage on August 17, 2018, 01:40:33 pm
The video contains a very rare CONFIRMED sighting of Mark Hopwood, MD of GWR.

It looks lovely on a carefully stage managed press launch. I heard no mention of the "B word" only pointing out how wonderful the trolley is.

Now wait for the reality of crush loaded 5 car trains with a hidden trolley.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: CharlieGCR on August 17, 2018, 01:43:15 pm
The video contains a very rare CONFIRMED sighting of Mark Hopwood, MD of GWR.

It looks lovely on a carefully stage managed press launch. I heard no mention of the "B word" only pointing out how wonderful the trolley is.

Now wait for the reality of crush loaded 5 car trains with a hidden trolley.

You don’t like the trolley? Since when  :D


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: broadgage on August 17, 2018, 01:56:19 pm
It is not just me who considers a trolley inadequate on a long distance train.
Many reviews on trip advisor and similar sites criticise the absence of a buffet car on the IETs to Bristol and beyond.

With the downgrading of Penzance services to "no buffet" and mainly shorter DMUs  I expect more such dissatisfaction.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 18, 2018, 12:38:20 am
It is not just me who considers a trolley inadequate on a long distance train.
Many reviews on trip advisor and similar sites criticise the absence of a buffet car on the IETs to Bristol and beyond.

With the downgrading of Penzance services to "no buffet" and mainly shorter DMUs  I expect more such dissatisfaction.

Whilst i agree the IET's should have a buffet and kitchen (situated between first and standard, andthe current kitchen being made into a luggage area, and bicycle storage area. It all depends if GWR don't ball it up and put 5 car trains down to Devon/Cornwall from Paddington, hopefully as more staff get trained up this won't be an issue.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: phile on August 18, 2018, 09:36:59 am
The video contains a very rare CONFIRMED sighting of Mark Hopwood, MD of GWR.

It looks lovely on a carefully stage managed press launch. I heard no mention of the "B word" only pointing out how wonderful the trolley is.

Now wait for the reality of crush loaded 5 car trains with a hidden trolley.

But he's still without any communication skills so far as his long suffering passengers are concerned


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Timmer on August 18, 2018, 03:10:27 pm
But he's still without any communication skills so far as his long suffering passengers are concerned
Oh I don’t know...I thought he did a very good welcoming everyone abroad over the train’s PA system  :)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2018, 03:24:44 pm
He should be reasonably proficient over a tannoy, given his hobby of being a DJ.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Umberleigh on August 18, 2018, 06:14:16 pm
I appreciate that buffets face increasing competition from station sales outlets. However, anyone who has waited on a dark, cold night on one of the smaller GWR stations will know how warm , welcome and civilised the staffed buffet appears as the train pulls in - the hallmark of long distance Inter-City travel


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: broadgage on August 19, 2018, 05:22:37 pm
I appreciate that buffets face increasing competition from station sales outlets. However, anyone who has waited on a dark, cold night on one of the smaller GWR stations will know how warm , welcome and civilised the staffed buffet appears as the train pulls in - the hallmark of long distance Inter-City travel

And also those who have waited on a stiflingly hot platform on a sunny afternoon at one of the smaller stations will know how air conditioned and welcoming and civilised the staffed buffet appears as the train pulls in - the hallmark of long distance inter city travel.
Immediate relief is at hand in the form of ample stocks of cold beer and soft drinks, or spirits with ICE and a chilled mixer.
I am old enough to remember when the buffet cars had draught beer :)
A trolley with a limited choice of room temperature beverages is a significant downgrade, if at appears at all.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: CharlieGCR on August 19, 2018, 07:12:09 pm
I meant my comment in a joking way, sorry if misunderstood. I do agree that a buffet provides a warm welcome and more of a long distance feel. The micro buffers do not live up to the “buffet standard” in my opinion, feeling overcrowded. Though a buffet is still better, and would probably provide better food options.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on August 20, 2018, 06:34:08 pm
Joined the inaugural service through Cornwall today travelling from Plymouth to Penzance and back. Absolutely swarming in the western section of the train with GWR staff, managers, contractors and Hitachi representatives. I'd say at least ten GWR counting the customer hosts. I'd assume the eastern section was similarly staffed. No problems at all. Some minor jobsworth activity at PZ gates trying to ensure only ticketed individuals made it onto the platform (1) though, those excluded hopped around the station to view via platforms 3 and 4. As for the trolley, no real problems the coffee was very good, when served on the return journey.
I'll give it another go in a months time and see how it rolls with less attention being offered.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: broadgage on August 20, 2018, 06:52:30 pm
I would be a bit surprised if much went wrong during a high profile inaugural run.

It remains to be seen how well the new units will work in daily service. The present state of Cardiff services is not a good omen.

Will there be mass short formations to allow for staff training ?
And more short formations due to withdrawals of the present stock outpacing delivery of the new ?
And yet more short trains whilst clogged and inaccessible radiators are cleaned, and whilst the reservation system and PIS is made to work.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2018, 07:10:07 pm
Absolutely swarming in the western section of the train with GWR staff, managers, contractors and Hitachi representatives. I'd say at least ten GWR counting the customer hosts. I'd assume the eastern section was similarly staffed. No problems at all. 

…………...wonder if that was why there were peak cancellations due to "staff shortages" elsewhere?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on August 20, 2018, 07:30:13 pm
And it's not just in Cornwall that 802s are now in passenger service - I came across a pair at Reading on 1C89 (16:33 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids).


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bignosemac on August 20, 2018, 07:39:35 pm
The first Class 802 in passenger service was 0645 Bristol TM-Swansea on Saturday 18th August.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on August 20, 2018, 08:26:19 pm
Quote
Will there be mass short formations to allow for staff training ?

One would suspect (hope) that this becomes a much less common occurrence as more 9-car sets come into service.

They should have been first of course, but the reasons why they weren't have been done to death on here.



Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: rogerw on August 20, 2018, 09:09:01 pm
Another positive factor for the W o E services is that the HSTs currently in use have not been promised elsewhere.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2018, 09:13:47 pm
802 006 (London end) and 802 007 were the first to make the run from London Paddington to Penzance in passenger service today.

I joined the down trip at St Erth and then came back up on its return working as far as Reading.

Having just over 30 minutes in Penzance meant a brisk walk along the coast path to get one of the photos below.  So on a humid day like today I was pleased to note the air conditioning was some of the best I have known on an IET - but it may have been too cold for some people's taste.  It came at a price too - the units do seem very noisy which is a shame when the train is otherwise quieter than an HST.

The reservation system was working and there were frequent announcements about what the red, amber and green indications mean.  I noticed several people trying to press the colour indications as if they were buttons.  I am not sure what they expected to happen if indeed they were buttons.  The colours changed throughout the journey according to the reservations held for a particular seat.  However for some reason all the displays went blank somewhere between Taunton and Reading.   Not sure why but I don't suspect it was much of an issue as you don't get many reservations from Reading to Paddington in the early evening.

I was in the middle coach of the front five and on the vexed subject of catering I saw the trolley twice.  Once around Par, the second time at Totnes.  However after a catering crew change at Exeter St Davids it wasn't seen again.  I am not sure if that was because there was no one to take over or some other issue.   I didn't hear any announcements.   Having said that, I bought a total of two cans of cider, a sandwich and a packet of crisps from the two visits which is what I probably would have bought during the course of a similar journey from a buffet on an HST so I didn't personally feel short-changed.

Something which will need watching is passengers for Liskeard on journeys towards Plymouth.  Only the front five coaches can be platformed so passengers in the rear five have to be warned at the previous station, Bodmin Parkway, to move forward.

The quality of the ride was good throughout Cornwall, Devon and Somerset but after Cogload there were three bits of rough riding.  Two between Athelney Crossing and Frome and one near Newbury.  I have noticed the quality of the ride along the Berks & Hants deteriorate in recent years on HSTs - it seems the 802s just accentuate it.

As to the seat quality, I have already said before I don't seem to find the same problems as many others have reported.  Having sat in the same seat for nearly five hours I didn't have any issues - but I accept I may be in a minority.

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/802ser.jpg)
802 007 leads the 07:30 from Paddington into St Erth

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/802pnz2.jpg)
802 007 on the blocks at Penzance, Platform 1

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/802pnz1.jpg)
802 006 waits to lead the 14:00 to Paddington


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 20, 2018, 10:06:50 pm


Something which will need watching is passengers for Liskeard on journeys towards Plymouth.  Only the front five coaches can be platformed so passengers in the rear five have to be warned at the previous station, Bodmin Parkway, to move forward.

The quality of the ride was good throughout Cornwall, Devon and Somerset but after Cogload there were three bits of rough riding.  Two between Athelney Crossing and Frome and one near Newbury.  I have noticed the quality of the ride along the Berks & Hants deteriorate in recent years on HSTs - it seems the 802s just accentuate it.


There seems to be issue at the moment across GWR where IET's are being decoupled and re-coupled and are running as 10 cars.  But the plan is eventually that at Plymouth the 10 cars will split, 5 going to Penzance and 5 terminating.  So the issue you mentioned won't be for long. Except for the summer when 9 car IET's will operate instead. 

The Berk & Hants line does seem to be having issues with rough rides, no idea why as im sure the Flying Banana is meant to pick it up.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on August 20, 2018, 10:15:24 pm
Nine cars will not be a problem at Liskeard as you can walk through the whole train.  It is when it is two separate five cars you risk being overcarried.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on August 21, 2018, 06:58:10 am
There seems to be issue at the moment across GWR where IET's are being decoupled and re-coupled and are running as 10 cars.  But the plan is eventually that at Plymouth the 10 cars will split, 5 going to Penzance and 5 terminating.  So the issue you mentioned won't be for long. Except for the summer when 9 car IET's will operate instead. 

There's been a lot going on ... and I think I may have missed something in my reading up.  Is there a plan to switch 9 and 5 car duties around every summer to provide more seats through Cornwall?   If so, does this mean that 9 car sets used (perhaps) on London to Oxford will be swapped for 5+5, with five cars headed on though Evesham during the summer rather than 9 cars bearing in mind reduced commuter demand in the holiday season?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: SandTEngineer on August 21, 2018, 08:39:31 am
The B&H ride track quality has been getting worse over the past few years, even on an HST.  I used to commute weekly from the far Southwest to London (and back, of course) and the Up Line has always been the worst of the two.  Although I haven't sampled one of the IETs along there yet, Im sure its still going to be poor trackwise.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: The Tall Controller on August 21, 2018, 09:44:20 am
Thanks Bob. I'm glad it's not just me who thinks the seats are fine. I'm 6'7 tall and I actually prefer the new seats as they promote a better seating posture. (Something I struggle with in most train seats, including HSTs). Leg room also feels significantly better on IETs.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2018, 09:56:43 am
The B&H ride track quality has been getting worse over the past few years, even on an HST.  I used to commute weekly from the far Southwest to London (and back, of course) and the Up Line has always been the worst of the two.  Although I haven't sampled one of the IETs along there yet, Im sure its still going to be poor trackwise.

Seems to be generally getting worse.  I had a nice little trip along the Cotswold Line in a HST the other week and was being bounced all over the place.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Timmer on August 21, 2018, 10:02:11 am
Can't be doing the trains themselves any favours where the track quality has deteriorated and not yet replaced/repaired.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 21, 2018, 10:10:49 am
Thanks Bob. I'm glad it's not just me who thinks the seats are fine. I'm 6'7 tall and I actually prefer the new seats as they promote a better seating posture. (Something I struggle with in most train seats, including HSTs). Leg room also feels significantly better on IETs.

I’m not quite that tall but I too appreciate the very generous leg room.  I find the shape of the seats very pleasing but would prefer a smidge more padding.

A trip on an old Mk I compartment carriage on a heritage railway reminded me just how well padded those seats were (bounce, bounce, bounce...), but I found my back was aching after I got off!


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on August 21, 2018, 10:17:27 am
Seems a dip has been reported on the up near Kintbury on the Berks & Hants this morning which is being attended to by permanent way staff at the moment.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on August 21, 2018, 10:57:21 am
Looking at the customer information screens, it seems today's 07:30 to Penzance and return is being worked by an HST (in reverse formation to boot!).


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on August 21, 2018, 11:31:28 am
Looking at the customer information screens, it seems today's 07:30 to Penzance and return is being worked by an HST (in reverse formation to boot!).

Perhaps after yesterdays outing the 802 needs its post running in period service, my way of saying  is there trouble ?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: The Tall Controller on August 21, 2018, 11:53:50 am
Class 800s ran PAD-BRI vice 802s before being replaced by a HST. This needed to happen as 800s are not cleared beyond Newton Abbot towards Plymouth in passenger service.

With only 4 802s in service, any issue will result in some form of HST/800 replacement until more sets are available to do like-for-like swaps (which normally go unnoticed)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: old original on August 21, 2018, 12:43:34 pm
Looking at the customer information screens, it seems today's 07:30 to Penzance and return is being worked by an HST (in reverse formation to boot!).

Right way 'round, 1st at London end


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on August 21, 2018, 12:47:32 pm
CIS has been updated - when it was approaching Plymouth it was shown as first class being at the front.   Now nearing Camborne it is at the rear.  (Perhaps it went for a spin around Laira triangle  ;D )


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on August 21, 2018, 01:09:04 pm
Looking at the customer information screens, it seems today's 07:30 to Penzance and return is being worked by an HST (in reverse formation to boot!).

Perhaps after yesterdays outing the 802 needs its post running in period service, my way of saying  is there trouble ?


So was there trouble, no one is saying as it would be bad publicity if it was.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 22, 2018, 03:09:21 am
There seems to be issue at the moment across GWR where IET's are being decoupled and re-coupled and are running as 10 cars.  But the plan is eventually that at Plymouth the 10 cars will split, 5 going to Penzance and 5 terminating.  So the issue you mentioned won't be for long. Except for the summer when 9 car IET's will operate instead. 

There's been a lot going on ... and I think I may have missed something in my reading up.  Is there a plan to switch 9 and 5 car duties around every summer to provide more seats through Cornwall?   If so, does this mean that 9 car sets used (perhaps) on London to Oxford will be swapped for 5+5, with five cars headed on though Evesham during the summer rather than 9 cars bearing in mind reduced commuter demand in the holiday season?

I believe so Grahame as far as the research i've done, I do know GWR management would like this to happen, but what they would like and what happens are two very different things.  It would be easier if the fleet was managed and maintained by GWR but as 'progress' has it, thats been outsourced to Hitachi, so I think GWR only get told in the morning what trains are available and then have to rush around to put them on services.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: woody on August 23, 2018, 02:11:27 pm
05.53 Plymouth/Paddington IET cancelled this morning!


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 23, 2018, 05:25:00 pm
05.53 Plymouth/Paddington IET cancelled this morning!

No surprise any replacement or did passengers have to get the Golden Hind and hour later instead?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: PhilWakely on August 23, 2018, 06:02:18 pm
05.53 Plymouth/Paddington IET cancelled this morning!

No surprise any replacement or did passengers have to get the Golden Hind and hour later instead?

No replacement, and yes, the Golden Hind was the suggested alternative.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: PhilWakely on August 23, 2018, 06:07:54 pm
I wasn't sure whether to start a new topic or to add this here......

There was an incident of falling masonry in Whiteball Tunnel around lunchtime today (23/08/18) and a couple of services were diverted via Yeovil and Honiton. Had the incident prevailed long enough for 1A93 (1400 Penzance to London Paddington) to have been affected, then, apparently this IET diagrammed service would also have been diverted. I am not aware of any physical clearance tests of 802s having been carried out along this diversion, but have heard that clearance testing was just a matter of 'desk checking'. Can anybody confirm this?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: a-driver on August 23, 2018, 06:59:18 pm
I wasn't sure whether to start a new topic or to add this here......

There was an incident of falling masonry in Whiteball Tunnel around lunchtime today (23/08/18) and a couple of services were diverted via Yeovil and Honiton. Had the incident prevailed long enough for 1A93 (1400 Penzance to London Paddington) to have been affected, then, apparently this IET diagrammed service would also have been diverted. I am not aware of any physical clearance tests of 802s having been carried out along this diversion, but have heard that clearance testing was just a matter of 'desk checking'. Can anybody confirm this?

Showing as route cleared via Yeovil and Honiton with a few restrictions.  Also showing route cleared for Par to Newquay, that might be interesting to witness the first one to Newquay.... definitely ‘desk checking’.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: a-driver on August 23, 2018, 07:11:07 pm
05.53 Plymouth/Paddington IET cancelled this morning!

No surprise any replacement or did passengers have to get the Golden Hind and hour later instead?

No replacement, and yes, the Golden Hind was the suggested alternative.

The two sets were coupled on Laira this morning and the onboard computers didn’t want to talk to each other.  They then couldn’t split the sets and then there were further issues when they eventually managed to split them. 
They both ran up empty up to London with the booked driver from the 0553 but it was heavily delayed enroute by the incident at Whiteball tunnel.  If it’s the same driver working it up tomorrow morning they’ll need to find another IET driver to work as he/she will be over their driving hours. 
There were no spare trains on Laira to cover the 0553.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: LiskeardRich on August 23, 2018, 07:32:21 pm
I wasn't sure whether to start a new topic or to add this here......

There was an incident of falling masonry in Whiteball Tunnel around lunchtime today (23/08/18) and a couple of services were diverted via Yeovil and Honiton. Had the incident prevailed long enough for 1A93 (1400 Penzance to London Paddington) to have been affected, then, apparently this IET diagrammed service would also have been diverted. I am not aware of any physical clearance tests of 802s having been carried out along this diversion, but have heard that clearance testing was just a matter of 'desk checking'. Can anybody confirm this?

I believe one made it to Yeovil, or at least the caption my friend posted on facebook with a pic implied it did. I dont know the scenery, so wouldnt know if it was Yeovil, London or Cardiff or anywhere in between!


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 23, 2018, 08:56:07 pm
I wasn't sure whether to start a new topic or to add this here......

There was an incident of falling masonry in Whiteball Tunnel around lunchtime today (23/08/18) and a couple of services were diverted via Yeovil and Honiton. Had the incident prevailed long enough for 1A93 (1400 Penzance to London Paddington) to have been affected, then, apparently this IET diagrammed service would also have been diverted. I am not aware of any physical clearance tests of 802s having been carried out along this diversion, but have heard that clearance testing was just a matter of 'desk checking'. Can anybody confirm this?

Wasn't Whiteball tunnel shotballed with concrete to prevent this only 4 years ago?  Network Fail at its best again.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Timmer on August 23, 2018, 09:08:36 pm
Wasn't Whiteball tunnel shotballed with concrete to prevent this only 4 years ago?  Network Fail at its best again.
I see Whiteball is closed again for three weeks next Feb/Mar. Why so soon after the last major closure?

Is today a clue as to why?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: woody on August 24, 2018, 03:09:37 pm
05.53 Plymouth/Paddington today (Friday) has once again departed Plymouth 45 minutes late arriving Paddington 70 minutes late to conclude what has been a totally disastrous first week of IETs on this service.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Valleys boy on August 24, 2018, 04:40:39 pm
  Total lateness for 05.53 Plymouth to paddington for tue ,wed &fri this week into Padington is 172 minutes


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: PhilWakely on August 24, 2018, 05:53:41 pm
  Total lateness for 05.53 Plymouth to paddington for tue ,wed &fri this week into Padington is 172 minutes

At least it wasn't late on Thursday - just cancelled throughout  >:(


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 24, 2018, 06:26:59 pm
  Total lateness for 05.53 Plymouth to paddington for tue ,wed &fri this week into Padington is 172 minutes

At least it wasn't late on Thursday - just cancelled throughout  >:(

Have the other four WoE daily trains currently diagrammed for 802s faired any better?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: a-driver on August 24, 2018, 07:45:00 pm
  Total lateness for 05.53 Plymouth to paddington for tue ,wed &fri this week into Padington is 172 minutes

At least it wasn't late on Thursday - just cancelled throughout  >:(

Have the other four WoE daily trains currently diagrammed for 802s faired any better?

Yes, which kind of points to an issue at Laira depot. 


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: woody on August 25, 2018, 04:07:20 pm
802003 and 802005 operated the 12.03 Paddington to Penzance today. (Saturday)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 25, 2018, 09:31:19 pm
Went on the Class 802 myself for the first time today down to Plymouth, Having experienced the Class 800 earlier in the year. 

I thought id give a brief overview of my thoughts for those who haven't had the chance.

Good points:
The paintwork looks much nicer than the vinyl on 800s
Interior is slightly better with GWR moquette on the seats, although 800012 has the same interior as the 802s.
No brake squeal compared to the Class 800s, whether thats because they've been run in or lessons learned from the 800s?

Bad Points
Not a train issue but a staff one, the down journey had issues with the doors opening which delayed the train, however the return journey didn't have this problem so I can't see it was a train issue.
Certain coaches(the 2nd standard class coach from the front) with underfloor engines seems to vibrate a bit and are a little noisier than other coaches which do have underfloor engines but seem to be quieter(middle coach of a 5 car unit).
Because the train is a lot quieter than the HST with its iconic puring MK3s the interior sounds are louder, especially noisy holidaymakers, where as in a Mark 3, the train noise itself would drown out some of the other noise.
Parts of the journey on the hills from Newton Abbot to Plymouth seemed to be slow, especially the bank after Tavistock junction to Ivybridge, and the journey itself seemed to be slower, except timings where faster, this could possibly be because of better acceleration the train is already at speed where as a HST would still be accelerating.

Overall the down journey I wasn't impressed and on seeing a HST fly past the other way I wished I was on it, however the return journey seemed a lot better, although both trips where noisy with shouting passengers (heaven knows why when it was so quiet) I deboarded being fairly impressed, and feel Hitachi haven't done a bad job in replacing the mighty HST.

My only wish is the GWR would get a proper corporate branded interior inside and stop calling them IET's and just name them the Castle Class, and call the HST's Kings. :P


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: phile on August 25, 2018, 10:11:30 pm
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 25, 2018, 11:52:35 pm
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s

Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 26, 2018, 01:08:49 am
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s

Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.

Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on August 26, 2018, 04:46:02 am
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s
Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.
Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.

The original GWR had the King Class, The Castle Class, The Hall Class. The Manor Class, The Grange Class, The Saint Class, The Star Class, The Bulldog Class to name just a few, the new GWR IET Expresses will have just four classes, the 800/0 class, the 800/3 class, the 802/0 class and the 802/1 class, lump them all together and call them the Uncomfortable Class.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on August 26, 2018, 07:35:20 am
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s
Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.
Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.

The original GWR had the King Class, The Castle Class, The Hall Class. The Manor Class, The Grange Class, The Saint Class, The Star Class, The Bulldog Class to name just a few, the new GWR IET Expresses will have just four classes, the 800/0 class, the 800/3 class, the 802/0 class and the 802/1 class, lump them all together and call them the Uncomfortable Class.

The old name families for new trains worry me as they cast back to the days of empire and privilege ... but then we have so many historic names like "London North Easterrn Railway", "Great Western Railway" and "Castle Class" back with us already.

Seeing some of the celebration names of great people already in use on the driving car ends of IETs,  should we look for a consistency (or tendency) across classes, and noting all are bimode ... we need four sets, right?
1. Great People of the Thames Valley, South West and South Wales (in general)
2. Famous Railway managers one end, and union leaders on the other
3. Designer dogs - CockerPoo, Labradoodle, Lurcher ...
4. Daytime and nighttime venues in places served - The White Horse and Club Ice


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: martyjon on August 26, 2018, 08:05:04 am
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s
Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.
Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.

The original GWR had the King Class, The Castle Class, The Hall Class. The Manor Class, The Grange Class, The Saint Class, The Star Class, The Bulldog Class to name just a few, the new GWR IET Expresses will have just four classes, the 800/0 class, the 800/3 class, the 802/0 class and the 802/1 class, lump them all together and call them the Uncomfortable Class.

The old name families for new trains worry me as they cast back to the days of empire and privilege ... but then we have so many historic names like "London North Easterrn Railway", "Great Western Railway" and "Castle Class" back with us already.

Seeing some of the celebration names of great people already in use on the driving car ends of IETs,  should we look for a consistency (or tendency) across classes, and noting all are bimode ... we need four sets, right?
1. Great People of the Thames Valley, South West and South Wales (in general)
2. Famous Railway managers one end, and union leaders on the other
3. Designer dogs - CockerPoo, Labradoodle, Lurcher ...
4. Daytime and nighttime venues in places served - The White Horse and Club Ice


Perhaps they could name a pair of driving cars after a pair of comedians to commemorate the farce that the IETs are currently playing out at the present time, LAUREL and HARDY anyone.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on August 26, 2018, 02:55:31 pm
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s
Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.
Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.

The original GWR had the King Class, The Castle Class, The Hall Class. The Manor Class, The Grange Class, The Saint Class, The Star Class, The Bulldog Class to name just a few, the new GWR IET Expresses will have just four classes, the 800/0 class, the 800/3 class, the 802/0 class and the 802/1 class, lump them all together and call them the Uncomfortable Class.

They aren't that uncomfortable to be honest,  the seats are just a bit hard because the foam is new, give it a year or two it will be fine.  Happens every time with new seats, people moan there too hard, happened when FGW put the first leather seats in, then when they changed to the GWR leather seats.  Same with bus seats.  To be honest they are a lot more comfortable than the FGW high backed seats.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: TaplowGreen on August 26, 2018, 05:16:53 pm
We've already got a Castle Class, the shorter formed HSTs, GT1s
Yes I know, but it should be renamed the King Class.
Calling them ‘The Grange Class’ would have been a much more fitting name for the short formed HSTs IMHO.

The original GWR had the King Class, The Castle Class, The Hall Class. The Manor Class, The Grange Class, The Saint Class, The Star Class, The Bulldog Class to name just a few, the new GWR IET Expresses will have just four classes, the 800/0 class, the 800/3 class, the 802/0 class and the 802/1 class, lump them all together and call them the Uncomfortable Class.

The old name families for new trains worry me as they cast back to the days of empire and privilege ... but then we have so many historic names like "London North Easterrn Railway", "Great Western Railway" and "Castle Class" back with us already.

Seeing some of the celebration names of great people already in use on the driving car ends of IETs,  should we look for a consistency (or tendency) across classes, and noting all are bimode ... we need four sets, right?
1. Great People of the Thames Valley, South West and South Wales (in general)
2. Famous Railway managers one end, and union leaders on the other
3. Designer dogs - CockerPoo, Labradoodle, Lurcher ...
4. Daytime and nighttime venues in places served - The White Horse and Club Ice

I love the idea of Number 2 - Hopwood and Crow?  :D

As for the others - 1. Raleigh and Drake

I'm sure 3 & 4 aren't designed to be taken seriously!!! (Although for 4 Soho at one end and Union Street at the other conjures up some interesting images!!!)



Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: sikejsudjek3 on August 28, 2018, 06:44:40 am
The IET's certainly aren't a patch on the original MKIII's where the seats lined up with the windows. Nor are the seats as comfortable. They aren't terrible, they just don't feel the premium product they should be IMO. I really wouldn't want to be on them for a long journey.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: DidcotPunter on August 28, 2018, 12:08:08 pm
The IET's certainly aren't a patch on the original MKIII's where the seats lined up with the windows. Nor are the seats as comfortable. They aren't terrible, they just don't feel the premium product they should be IMO. I really wouldn't want to be on them for a long journey.

One of the complaints about the Mark 3s when originally introduced was that - in standard class at least - the seats didn't all line up with the windows. Unlike the Mark 1 and 2s, BR used the same bodyshell for both first and standard class vehicles and aligned the windows for first. With the additional seats in standard, they didn't all line up.

That's when the rot set in, and most if not all new trains since then have perpetuated the issue.

Agree with your comments about the seats - they're OK for a Didcot to Padd run, but don't have an 'inter-city' train feel about them.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on September 03, 2018, 01:19:34 pm
The IET's certainly aren't a patch on the original MKIII's where the seats lined up with the windows. Nor are the seats as comfortable. They aren't terrible, they just don't feel the premium product they should be IMO. I really wouldn't want to be on them for a long journey.

One of the complaints about the Mark 3s when originally introduced was that - in standard class at least - the seats didn't all line up with the windows. Unlike the Mark 1 and 2s, BR used the same bodyshell for both first and standard class vehicles and aligned the windows for first. With the additional seats in standard, they didn't all line up.

That's when the rot set in, and most if not all new trains since then have perpetuated the issue.

Agree with your comments about the seats - they're OK for a Didcot to Padd run, but don't have an 'inter-city' train feel about them.

There is nothing wrong with the seats! The foam is a bit hard because its new, same as brand new sofa, they are much more comfortable and don't vibrate like the FGW Mk3 seats.  As for not lining up with the windows, so don't the current FGW/GWR hst interiors, I wish people would stop finding fault with these new trains when actually there's very little different from the HST's & Class 180s that have been serving for the last 18 years.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on September 03, 2018, 01:25:38 pm
Comfort is in the posterior of the beholder.

(Mind you, there are other aspects to it. I find the arm and leg space on IETs very generous. It would be a shame to confuse posterior comfort with elbow-room.)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 03, 2018, 02:33:07 pm
I took a trip with several friends who have little interest in trains a couple of months ago, which happened to be on a Class 800.  I deliberately didn't mention that it was a new train and there were no adverse comments from any of them regarding seat comfort, or anything else about the new trains.  There were no positive comments either it should be said, just a general level of ambivalence.  In fact, all of them were just interested in getting a drink, which prompted concerned looks when I said there was no buffet, but fortunately a well stocked trolley arrived shortly after.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: devonexpress on September 03, 2018, 04:13:10 pm
I took a trip with several friends who have little interest in trains a couple of months ago, which happened to be on a Class 800.  I deliberately didn't mention that it was a new train and there were no adverse comments from any of them regarding seat comfort, or anything else about the new trains.  There were no positive comments either it should be said, just a general level of ambivalence.  In fact, all of them were just interested in getting a drink, which prompted concerned looks when I said there was no buffet, but fortunately a well stocked trolley arrived shortly after.

Its better than my first trip on them during their first week in service.  I had an elderly lady ask if it was ok to sit next to me as she didn't know if the seat was reserved, I said it was ok, then pointed out that the seat revervations where now above instead of on paper, she looks at me awkwardly, then said "well its reserved then", I pointed out it wasn't again.  We both sat next to each other for 10 tense minutes before the train pulled into its next stop and she got off.   Turns out she was from a German tourist group who had never been on a FGW/GWR train before. ;D


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: stuving on September 07, 2018, 06:12:30 pm
Having seen pairs of 802s not yet in service (or possibly the same pair?), and heard of them going into service only last month, I was not expecting the 9-car ones for at least a couple of months. However, today the 16:33 Paddington to Exeter (1C89) was formed of 802101, and it was on the juice as it ran into Reading (unlike 9-car 800s, which I've only seen using diesel). Mind you that train was the first of series, delivered from Japan for testing over a year ago, and it was promised into service in July - so it's still late.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on September 09, 2018, 10:19:16 pm
Would it have been too expensive to produce two versions of the configuration diagram poster for these trains so they mirrored the up and down configuration on the respective platforms that they are displayed on. The one displayed on down platforms is the 'wrong way around' and the reader needs to ' mentally mirror it' to reflect what appears when the train is on the platform.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: grahame on September 10, 2018, 07:07:45 am
Would it have been too expensive to produce two versions of the configuration diagram poster for these trains so they mirrored the up and down configuration on the respective platforms that they are displayed on. The one displayed on down platforms is the 'wrong way around' and the reader needs to ' mentally mirror it' to reflect what appears when the train is on the platform.

Here's our more local flavour

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/oo_n_z.jpg)

Seems to be something of a misconception in the diagrams that 5 car trains are taller and wider (OO size) whereas 9 cars are N gauge and 10 cars Z scale. Or perhaps it's a psychological trick to make us think they're all really very much the same size.

Noting "London end" ... are we headed very much for same-way-round consistency soon?   Sorting out A-B-C  v 1-2-3 or E-D-C v 1-2-3 ?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 10, 2018, 08:40:14 am
Can't quite read that fully, Grahame.  What is the word in brackets after the uppermost Coach A?  It looks like SH**.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on September 10, 2018, 08:42:00 am
It is "Shhhh"   Seems we can't cope with "Quiet Coach" anymore.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 10, 2018, 08:43:51 am
Thanks Bob.  My naughty mind at play then.  What on earth are they thinking (or not, as the case may be?) ::)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: RailCornwall on September 13, 2018, 04:35:53 pm
So the Existing pair of 0730 PAD-PNZ and 1400 PNZ-PAD is now embedded into the schedule. Any ideas as to what pairing to/from Cornwall will see the second IET working?


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: bobm on September 13, 2018, 06:20:35 pm
Today's 14:00 ex Penzance formed of 2x5 car 802s has come to a stand with an air leak between Exeter St Davids and Tiverton Parkway.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: SandTEngineer on September 13, 2018, 07:17:24 pm
Today's 14:00 ex Penzance formed of 2x5 car 802s has come to a stand with an air leak between Exeter St Davids and Tiverton Parkway.
Thanks Bob.  I had already put details in the IET thread ::)


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 24, 2018, 09:57:39 am
So the Existing pair of 0730 PAD-PNZ and 1400 PNZ-PAD is now embedded into the schedule. Any ideas as to what pairing to/from Cornwall will see the second IET working?

The 0635 off Paddington is an IET today, just passed it at Plymouth at 0945.


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 24, 2018, 03:07:36 pm
Today the 0730 pad to Penzance and 1400 Penzance to Paddington was 2 x 5

And the Royal Duchy (about noon off Penzance I think) was a 9 car. Possibly the first day of this one becoming a IET


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: old original on September 24, 2018, 08:53:09 pm
So the Existing pair of 0730 PAD-PNZ and 1400 PNZ-PAD is now embedded into the schedule. Any ideas as to what pairing to/from Cornwall will see the second IET working?

The 0635 off Paddington is an IET today, just passed it at Plymouth at 0945.

9 car


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: PhilWakely on October 18, 2018, 05:28:14 pm
I guess this subject has been done to death over multiple threads, but I accompanied the Good Lady Wife up to the Big Smoke from Exeter today on the Armada (1A72 0553 Plymouth to London Paddington). As it has been for a while now, it was formed of 2x5 Class 802s (802003/005). We sat in the middle coach of the rear set. It was our first long-distance journey by 802. Without any prompting, this is the GLW's opinion............
Quote
Good......... plenty of leg room (she suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome and regularly needs to get up and walk around), so she was able to sit for longer; Quieter engines; Good acceleration; A 'pleasant experience using the toilet"!;

Bad........... Too much under-floor vibration (she wondered why it disappeared after Reading until I told her we were running on  leccy then); Seats a little too hard; Too many loud Safety announcements; Manual announcements from the Guard could not be heard; "WHERE'S THE BUFFET?" she enquired, shortly after leaving Taunton as she wanted her usual cup of tea. "WAIT FOR THE TROLLEY TO COME TO YOU" says I. Well, we waited and we waited and we waited for the non-existent Trolley - which was apparently in the front set;
Asked to rate the experience out of 10 - her response......... 6


Title: Re: Class 802s
Post by: broadgage on October 18, 2018, 06:18:08 pm
And whose crystal ball was it that specifically forecast that on "a 5+5 train, the trolley will be in the other portion"
Such forecasts were widely held to be unduly negative, but this occurs regularly.




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