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Title: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: CJB666 on May 14, 2018, 13:00:44 Crossrail needs £500m bailout by taxpayer, Chris Grayling to tell MPs Capital’s new train line hit by huge cost overruns
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crossrail-needs-500m-bailout-by-taxpayer-chris-grayling-to-tell-mps-lv77md5vp And most western stations are still building sites. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: simonw on May 14, 2018, 13:47:36 Why does the taxpayer have to pay an extra £500M for Crossrail when no other part of the country receives this kind of transport funding?
Surely London Council Tax Payers should have to contribute a Transport Levy to fund this shortfall? Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: ChrisB on May 14, 2018, 13:57:21 Totally agree.
Also, this is in part, because the Mayor has a 'frozen fares' policy for his term of office. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: didcotdean on May 14, 2018, 14:19:53 TfL have in the past indicated that Crossrail will bring into them an additional £3Bn in revenue over a five year period, and by 2020 be yielding an operational surplus of £311M pa.
Somehow this doesn't make me sympathetic towards their case for more money. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: ChrisB on May 14, 2018, 14:28:10 indeed....
Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: JayMac on May 14, 2018, 14:41:27 It was all industry back slapping through 2016 and 2017. What say these commentators and Crossrail directors now?
https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/mathew-duncan-finance-director-crossrail-1-uk-exclusive-interview/ https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/feature/crossrail-time-and-budget-how-get-major-infrastructure-project-right https://www.insurancetimes.co.uk/why-crossrail-is-a-triumph-for-risk-management/1413499.article Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: ray951 on May 14, 2018, 15:59:14 TfL have in the past indicated that Crossrail will bring into them an additional £3Bn in revenue over a five year period, and by 2020 be yielding an operational surplus of £311M pa. I would be interested to know whether the £3Bn is new money i.e. passengers making journeys that they previously couldn't or is this money that has been taken from GWR and Greater Anglia on account of Tfl now running these services or a combination of both.Somehow this doesn't make me sympathetic towards their case for more money. It is interesting to note that the rollout of Crossrail to Reading will result in either greater subsidies required for GWR or a reduction in services in other parts of GWR given that the Thames Valley services are probably the most profitable part of GWR and these services will now be run by Tfl. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: didcotdean on May 14, 2018, 16:14:27 There is a lot dependent on increased passengers.
There has also been a dip in usage of London Underground since those figures were published. Only 2% but that can make a lot of difference; it has delayed or cancelled some other planned improvement work. TfL itself only contributed £1.9bn to the overall £14.8bn and much of that was borrowed from the European Investment Bank. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2018, 17:28:01 Has there ever been a major rail project which has finished on time and on budget? ???
Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: DidcotPunter on May 14, 2018, 17:36:16 Reading station rebuild?
Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: IndustryInsider on May 14, 2018, 18:00:45 Birmingham New Street did I think, as did the Cotswold Line Redoubling Project and Ordsall Chord project in Manchester and the Waterloo rebuild. I say 'I think' as finding detailed final accounts is often rather tricky and laborious as I guess any cost overruns can be hidden away to a certain degree, and also the scope of such large projects is often changed during the construction phase making original budgets inaccurate.
Not great that such an overrun has occurred but worth pointing out that £500m, whilst a lot of money, only represents an overspend of just over 3% of the project budget. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: NickB on May 14, 2018, 18:04:34 Quite frankly I’d be happy if Crossrail overran by £100 billion, just so long as I never have to travel on the shower of self ingratiating s*** that is GWR anymore. Money well spent.
Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: Adelante_CCT on May 14, 2018, 18:19:49 Not great that such an overrun has occurred but worth pointing out that £500k, whilst a lot of money, only represents an overspend of just over 3% of the project budget. Actually its not even that bad, £500k is only 0.003% ;) Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: stuving on May 14, 2018, 18:45:05 Not great that such an overrun has occurred but worth pointing out that £500k, whilst a lot of money, only represents an overspend of just over 3% of the project budget. Actually its not even that bad, £500k is only 0.003% ;) Oh, really? Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: simonw on May 14, 2018, 19:14:33 Very few major projects finish on time or on budget, and that is not a major issue provided that the original plan and budget are well made, flexible and the alterations are accepted as value for money. However, when a project is badly planned, poorly managed and budgeted we get disasters like
So far, I haven't not heard of Crossrail being a disaster, but the budget of $14B means, to me, not one penny extra should be given regardless of the issues. If there is a shortfall, then the citizens of Essex, London and Berksire should stump up, and TFL should offer shares that provide discounted unlimited on TfL for the shareholders liftime. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: Birdie100 on May 14, 2018, 19:38:04 £500m is the expected overrun which is 3pc. £500k would be 0.003pc as you say. ;)
Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: didcotdean on May 14, 2018, 19:54:43 My personal experience over the years is that if TfL is the answer it must be an odd question.
The envelope was supposed to include a fair amount of contingency, but there have been plenty of tales of overspends on individual items over the last year or two. Maybe these have added up to finally burst the envelope, and maintaining it is 'on budget' even if that actually meant 'on budget including contingency' is no longer possible. Title: Re: Crossrail Overrun By £500M Post by: stuving on July 24, 2018, 20:33:10 To the sounds of synchronised teeth-gritting from the two governments in London, money (£600M) has been found for the - relatively small, given the background - overspend on Crossrail. JoJo got the job of announcing it (https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/annual-update-on-crossrail-2018):
Quote As reported in the update to Parliament last year, cost pressures have increased across the project. Both the department and TfL remain committed to the successful delivery of this project and have agreed an overall funding envelope for delivery of the project of £15.4 billion. This will enable the completion of the project at a cost lower than planned under the last Labour government. The anticipated cost of the project was previously estimated at £15.9 billion in 2007 and increased to £17.8 billion in 2009, before the Coalition Government took steps to bring down the costs following the June 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review. The additional funding is being provided to both Crossrail Limited and Network Rail. £300 million is being made available to Crossrail Limited, with the Department for Transport and TfL contributing £150 million each. Around £290 million is being provided for completion of the programme of works on the national rail network, and is being funded by the Department for Transport and Network Rail. It remains the case that over 60% of the project’s funding has been provided by Londoners and London businesses. PS: There's a TfL board meeting tomorrow, at which this will presumably be signed off. Nothing about it is yet visible in the papers on line. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |