Great Western Coffee Shop

I understand that a number of groups are planning to coordinate a 1 day fare strike across the GWR network in protest at the woeful level of service being provided.

Shades of 2007

What is a fare strike? Who and What does it involve doing?

It seems to mean different things to different people.
To some it means a boycott of GWR services for a day, by making other travel arrangements or staying at home.

To others it means travel as normal but without a ticket and declining to pay if challenged. Some would intend to resist any effort to collect the fare, including violence.
Others would favour more passive resistance, and others would pay, reluctantly and after wasting as much time as possible.

Yet others might intend to POSSESS a valid ticket but refuse to show it, by way of a protest. Whilst an offence is still committed by not showing a valid ticket on demand, the much more serious offence of fraud has arguably not been committed, if a ticket was in fact held and eventually produced.
Various variations of this exist, including pretending to have lost the ticket, but "finding" it at the last moment, after wasting as much RPI and BTP time as possible, and probably allowing others to pass through without being checked.

And yes this has happened before, I cant remember when but 2007 as suggested sounds right.
A damp squib IIRC.

A damp squib that got wide media coverage. The first strike in January 2007 had the MD of FGW, Alison Forster, making a public apology and addressing the issues of rolling stock shortages. The issues that led to that first fares strike were reported as instrumental in her removal from the top job later that year. In the following years there was a vast improvement in the service offered by FGW.

If there can be similar results with another strike then I say more power to the elbows of protesters. Even just getting Mark Hopwood to make a public appearance would be a result.

And there was no violence, or for that matter arrests, in the fare strikes on FGW in 2007 and 2008. Threats of prosecution were made by FGW but weren't carried through.

Judging by what I've read/heard, this is very much the aspiration once again in terms of publicity and actually getting someone to get off their arse and explain what is going on,why, and what being done to address it.

Talk of violence is a bit daft frankly.

I doubt that any significant violence will result. There are however a number of people who jump on ANY protest bandwagon, and believe that any cause of public dissatisfaction is best addressed by calls to "smash the system" and to "bring down the government"

Such persons don't care if the protest is about global warming, NHS cuts, railways, or a fatal fire in a tower block, or almost anything else. "smash the government" that will sort it !

I suspect that the protest will achieve a fair bit of publicity and possibly management changes. It might even result in some more rolling stock being found.
Advocates of GWR will no doubt state that there is no spare available rolling stock, and that protests wont alter the position.
I, and some others, are not entirely convinced. There is undeniably a shortage of stock of the preferred type, but with a  bit of determination I bet that something could be found even if it meant HMG granting a derogation or exemption to permit the use of otherwise non approved rolling stock.

Likewise with staff. To fully train a driver to safely work on a number of busy main line routes does indeed take many months, and this probably cant be shortened without compromising safety.
But OTOH, just how long would it take to learn to drive a heritage DMU up and down a largely self contained branch line ? The more experienced driver and more modern unit would be available for other duties.

Regarding the heritage DMU, not long to train up at all, but most heritage DMUs are in use on heritage railways, especially in the summer, and of course the DNU would need to be one that is certified for national rail use (fitted with GSM-R, data recorders etc.) even if just being used on a self contained branch line.  That’s probably why it hasn’t happened yet?

Not a DMU, but there is a heritage replacement service running on the Oxenholme to Windermere line.   I've heard a couple of grumbles that it is / was only running shortened heritage hours ...

One of the reasons that I suggested that HMG should grant some form of exemption or derogation, was to permit the use of say a heritage DMU on a branch line WITHOUT having to fit the latest equipment.
Would some of the smaller Cornish branches be any more dangerous without GSM-R and a data recorder, than say Bishops Lydeard to Minehead ?

Would luv to see the Great Western Society's SMU (Steam Multiple Unit) aka their steam railmotor and its matching trailer coach chugging up and down the St, Erth - St. Ives branch line.

Use of a steam railmotor and trailer might be shocking and a step too far for some, but is there in fact any sound reason to prohibit it ?

The modest coal and water requirements should be easily obtained, and it would be splendid sight.

Danger due to overcrowding on a service for which unlimited walkup tickets are sold.

I would love to see the steam railmotor out and about - but another factor is the weather.  Network Rail is looking at steam charters at the moment due to the fire risk.

It was well welcomed when the steam railmotor performed solo on the Looe - Liskeard line a couple of years ago and the steam railmotor was not fitted with all the paraphanalia required for main line running, no radio and a similar event took place on the Southall - Brentford branch also in recent years.

How do I find out more about this fare strike?  (Not that I’ve had my ticket checked in 2018, and generally travel to/from platform 1, 8 or 9 👍

The forum team cannot condone any action that breaks the law, nor that would help promote it.  Mind you, from what little we know we don't know where what's been suggested would break any laws, or even if it's fake news.

A Google search for GWR Fare Strike just lead me to ... this thread  ;D

GWR could bring out the Green Gestapo in numbers if it does go ahead

Are individual contributors permitted to condone and/or promote such an action if it were to be organised?

Civil disobedience and casual law breaking are often drivers of change with positive outcomes.

I doubt that DIRECTLY praising or condoning anything illegal would be allowed, though one could perhaps imply such feelings in a slightly indirect way.
Example "I can understand how people might be driven to such actions" is probably allowed, in reference to any organised non payment of fares.

I've nothing but praise for the actions of More Train Less Strain, and their fare strikes of 2007 and 2008.

I'll very likely condone and praise similar if it happens again on GWR.

The greater good.

It's worth remembering that this action (should it take place), is driven largely by despair, not malice, or criminal tendencies.

The combination of a service singularly failing to deliver all the grandiose promises made last year (and for many years), the farcical situation at the weekends, and the total failure from those at the top of GWR to communicate effectively as to the whys, whens and wherefores seem to be the main reasons why many have reached the end of their tethers.

This is not some premeditated left wing conspiracy with "anarchist" clowns wearing Guy Fawkes masks running wild through the streets, it's simply a group of completely respectable people who in the normal state of things would not entertain anything more radical than signing a petition, feeling that they have no other option than to take direct, but measured action.

I'm with BNM, I wish them all the best within the law. Not sure what my own stance will be (yet), Hopwood is riding his luck with the situation elsewhere with Northern/GTR keeping attention off GWR's dismal performance, however a (metaphorical) kick to the well upholstered rump won't do any harm.

I agree, but am slightly concerned that any protest could end up being hijacked by left wing anarchist groups, wearing Guy Fawkes masks.

Do you have any particular 'left wing anarchist' group or groups you are worried about?

Offer to pay half, whilst claiming that the fare was short formed.  ;)

Individual contributors are responsible for their own posts.  However, should a post which incites law breaking be posted, then when it comes to the attention of the board operator and providers, it also becomes their secondary responsibility to keep it legal and decent, though you were all good enough to agree to indemnify the owners of the forum when you signed up should any of your posts end up in deep water.

I have huge sympathy for people hit by the current awful service and saying "what can we do / how can we organise ourselves so that we're widely heard and taken not of".   But I could not let this forum turn into the place where actions beyond the law are organised.

Might it be that GWR's performance of late is as a result of the top men / women, The First Group Board, authorising massive cuts in expenditure over the past year and the p***poor financial state of the group as a whole. In a post on the finances of FGP there was a reply to my post which stated that after deducting the Goodwill figure on the Balance Sheet from the Total Assets the Balance of Assets was exceeded by the Total Liabilities and therefore were FGP "technically insolvent" ?

In the case of Capita, a reply to a post of mine suggested that "Insolvency" is when you are unable to pay debts when they fall due.

In the case of Carillion, the company extended payment terms from 30 to 90 days so the directors must have known the company was going down the tubes to do that and was this a breach of the law.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19496.msg233711#msg233711

Is a related post.

I was thinking about the socialist workers party, among others.
Their placards can be seen at a wide range of protests, with the same slogans at any event.

I hear Charles Horton of GTR is seeking new employment!


Mark Hopwood and the senior management team were at Cardiff recently helping with crowd control following some Ed Sheeran concert

And the SWP are anarchists are they?

Not necessarily, but they are extremely violent at times, especially when all 23 of them turn up.

Not as bad as the People's Front of Judea of course.

I've had a "notify" that "Gestapo" is not an appropriate term here.   Asking Google:


And I have to agree that "gestapo" does not apply - no evidence of brutality from GWR staff at any point in the past, and I don't see it happening even if the there's a major revenue protection drive at some point to coincide with any withdrawal of co-operation in fare collection from passengers.

"gestapo" is IMHO just about acceptable despite the absence of brutality.

Gestapo has gradually become an accepted term for any branch of officialdom  that is considered to act with undue zeal.
"parking gestapo"
"planning gestapo"
"health and safety gestapo"

Have become accepted terms despite the absence of brutality or any connection with the horrors of the Nazi regime. I consider this change of use to be regrettable, but it is not going to be undone because I and others consider it to be in slightly poor taste.

Language evolves.

Sometimes language evolves, sometimes those that use it become lazy.

How often have we seen the suffix "gate" added to any potential scandal?

As for the examples above - I suspect all of them have had czar or tsar added in place of gestapo at some point.

Retain the Pacers & reverse the stock moves....would provide stock other than HSTs