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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: RichardB on July 09, 2018, 15:46:24



Title: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: RichardB on July 09, 2018, 15:46:24
Some minor/locally based changes possible.

Press release from the Rail Delivery Group here https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/media-centre/press-releases/2018/469774201-2018-07-09.html


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: bobm on July 09, 2018, 15:52:23
Also noting the last paragraph. 

Quote
This announcement means that returning to a position of confirming timetables to customers 12 weeks ahead where these are altered at weekends, known as informed traveller, will take longer than previously planned. The industry will be working hard to return to the full 12 weeks ahead confirmation window as quickly as possible and hopes to do so by May 2019.

That could mean problems for people trying to book Christmas and New Year travel given the amount of work due to take place.
 


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 09, 2018, 16:19:43
Glad I booked some tickets today for September... :P


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: grahame on July 09, 2018, 16:34:00
From SWR

Quote
Update on timetable changes for December 2018


Since before we started the South Western Railway franchise, we have been preparing for a major timetable change in December 2018 to provide customers with access to additional services and extra capacity throughout the day.
 
We are therefore disappointed that we will not be implementing any changes to the December 2018 timetable and instead rolling over the May 2018 timetable. Preparations to deliver the extra services, capacity improvements and reduced journey times started well before we took over the SWR franchise and will continue as we are determined to deliver what our customers and stakeholders expect.
 
We are mindful of the disruption to customers that happened with other major timetable changes elsewhere in May 2018 and despite SWR’s desire to deliver the increased capacity and extra services as soon as possible to customers, it has been decided at a national level that a period of stability is needed.
 
Even without timetable changes in December 2018, we are preparing to deliver additional capacity for the benefit of customers and, over the coming weeks, will be seeking to confirm plans as to how the 90 additional Class 442 vehicles which are presently being refurbished, can be progressively introduced into service in the existing timetable to allow other trains to be cascaded elsewhere on our network. As part of the refurbishment of the Class 444/450 fleets, we will also be delivering an increase in standard class seating capacity through internal reconfiguration of these vehicles which will progressively increase capacity through to Spring 2019.
 
We will continue to work with Network Rail, the Department for Transport and insight from customers and stakeholders to implement the changes to our future timetables and ensure maximum benefit with minimal disruption to our customers.

Yours sincerely,
 
Andy Mellors
Managing Director


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: broadgage on July 09, 2018, 16:43:03
Probably a wise decision, having looked at the shambles elsewhere recently caused by new timetables.

It would not surprise me to see significant changes postponed to beyond next May.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on July 09, 2018, 17:05:11
So does that mean that 387's (to Newbury) and 800's (on Bedwyn's) from Jan'19 is delayed, or will they just run to the current timetable?


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: grahame on July 09, 2018, 17:20:57
So does that mean that 387's (to Newbury) and 800's (on Bedwyn's) from Jan'19 is delayed, or will they just run to the current timetable?

Yes.   But I don't know which I am saying "Yes" to.   

GWR have told us that electrification MUST be completed to Newbury by Christmas as they won't have enough diesel trains to run the Newbury stoppers on diesel after that point, but I do wonder if those goal posts may have moved.   In which case, was all the midweek disruption from Westbury to Reading via Pewsey, and from Westbury to Swindon via Melksham, really necessary?


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 09, 2018, 17:31:19
I would guess 387s to Newbury will still happen, some slight tinkering of the timetables/diagrams would be needed.

Assuming 802s are ready on time, along with the turn back at Bedwyn, then again no reason to not changeover Bedwyn services, simply using the existing timetable, again with a minor tweak or two.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2018, 19:51:56
A wise decision.  Allows GWR to get staff trained so we are in a position to actually operate something like the advertised timetable.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2018, 20:35:16
A wise decision.  Allows GWR to get staff trained so we are in a position to actually operate something like the advertised timetable.


Ahhhhhhh the irony! 

……….Manana, Manana - twas ever thus!  ::)


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Surrey 455 on July 09, 2018, 21:11:11
On a purely selfish basis, I am disappointed because my promised half hourly SWR train service on evenings and Sundays will remain hourly :(


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: CMRail on July 09, 2018, 21:18:25
Good but bad..
Full IET performance will now he delayed with all HST diagrams operated by IETs. Delays additional capacity, but helps more planning time and longer running engineering to finish.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: old original on July 09, 2018, 21:23:43
On a purely selfish basis, I am disappointed because my promised half hourly SWR train service on evenings and Sundays will remain hourly :(

...and I presume the same fate for the half hourly GWR service through Cornwall....


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 09, 2018, 22:06:36
A wise decision.  Allows GWR to get staff trained so we are in a position to actually operate something like the advertised timetable.


Ahhhhhhh the irony! 

……….Manana, Manana - twas ever thus!  ::)

I guess for me a delay is clearly the better of two negative outcomes.   :-\


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 09, 2018, 22:08:06
A wise decision.  Allows GWR to get staff trained so we are in a position to actually operate something like the advertised timetable.


Ahhhhhhh the irony! 

……….Manana, Manana - twas ever thus!  ::)

I guess for me a delay is clearly the better of two negative outcomes.   :-\

It's certainly the consistent outcome for anything which GWR touch.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: JayMac on July 10, 2018, 00:26:51
This might be very bad news for SWR.

The new franchise was costed on an increase in services in December 2018. If the DfT don't compensate FirstGroup/MTR then the already (rumoured) shaky financial predicament the franchise is in could be exacerbated.

Stagecoach/Virgin East Coast blamed Network Rail (so, by proxy blaming the Govt) for their financial predicament after being supposedly unable to introduce more services. They then defaulted when the government refused any sort of bailout.

It's quite feasible the same could happen to SWR.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: paul7575 on July 10, 2018, 00:44:25
On the other hand if the timetable was to chang in Dec 18, would SWR have the necessary extra rolling stock ready?  Progress on the 442s is supposedly way behind the curve, and there’s been no fully modified 450 or 444 in the wild yet either.

This delay might turn out to be useful to hide SWR’s embarrassment...


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Timmer on July 10, 2018, 06:01:52
This delay might turn out to be useful to hide SWR’s embarrassment...
Not to mention the Dft’s, Network Rail’s and GWR’s for the shambles on the GW mainline modernisation.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Thatcham Crossing on July 10, 2018, 08:57:06
Quote
along with the turn back at Bedwyn

Last I heard (haven't been down that way myself for a while) the work on that hasn't started yet.

The current timetable for Bedwyn semi-fasts is based on around 30 mins for a non-stop run between PAD and RDG,
so there will be lots of slack for an IET at 125.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Timmer on July 10, 2018, 10:11:34
There is no doubt this has bought Network Rail extra time to get the infrastructure works completed but no one will talk about how late they are running with these just that its better to delay the introduction of the new timetable.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: YouKnowNothing on July 10, 2018, 19:23:27

Do you honestly think the TOCs will come out of this worst off financially? You obviously don't know how Grayling makes deals....although he doesn't run the railway!

This might be very bad news for SWR.

The new franchise was costed on an increase in services in December 2018. If the DfT don't compensate FirstGroup/MTR then the already (rumoured) shaky financial predicament the franchise is in could be exacerbated.

Stagecoach/Virgin East Coast blamed Network Rail (so, by proxy blaming the Govt) for their financial predicament after being supposedly unable to introduce more services. They then defaulted when the government refused any sort of bailout.

It's quite feasible the same could happen to SWR.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: JayMac on July 10, 2018, 20:49:11
Do you honestly think the TOCs will come out of this worst off financially? You obviously don't know how Grayling makes deals....although he doesn't run the railway!

Like the 'deal' he made with Stagecoach/Virgin East Coast? They certainly didn't do well financially when their plans to increase services to meet revenue targets were nixed by alleged Network Rail failings.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Kernow Otter on July 10, 2018, 22:33:19
Difficult to see what this means for the much anticipated timetable enhancements for the the Cornish Mainline. As I read it 'on hold'.  Unfortunate but understandable.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2018, 22:36:03
I guess in terms of Cornwall, next May instead of this December at least means no additional holiday seasons will be affected.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Timmer on July 12, 2018, 06:23:43
There is no doubt this has bought Network Rail extra time to get the infrastructure works completed but no one will talk about how late they are running with these just that its better to delay the introduction of the new timetable.
Think this confirms my thoughts above:

Modern Railways Roger Ford on Twitter:

Electrification to Cardiff has been delayed to June/July 2019.

So don’t be surprised if the May 19 timetable change comes and goes with no major timetable change on the GW network.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 12, 2018, 07:27:45
When is the last mainline HST due to stop running GWR services? I always thought that if it wasn't until sometime during 2019, then a complete revision of the timetable couldn't be brought in anyway.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: grahame on July 12, 2018, 07:40:15
When is the last mainline HST due to stop running GWR services? I always thought that if it wasn't until sometime during 2019, then a complete revision of the timetable couldn't be brought in anyway.

The draft 2019 timetables, London to West of Engalnd, that are being worked on for next year have some time dependent trains in them showing as HST until 18th May and a slightly different times GWR8DEM thereafter.  I think the HSTs will have been totally replaced on Bristol / Cardiff / Cheltenham Spa / Worcester services by the start of January though?


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2018, 09:34:01
Yes, it was to be autumn time for all routes apart from WoE which was next spring.  Those dates could slip a little as GWR have stated they are able to use some sets for a little while longer if needed, but at the same time there’s no reason why IETs can’t continue to take over from HSTs as planned.  There’s a lot of 9-car 800/3 and 5-car 802 units starting to gather at North Pole.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 12, 2018, 10:55:05
There is no doubt this has bought Network Rail extra time to get the infrastructure works completed but no one will talk about how late they are running with these just that its better to delay the introduction of the new timetable.
Think this confirms my thoughts above:

Modern Railways Roger Ford on Twitter:

Electrification to Cardiff has been delayed to June/July 2019.

So don’t be surprised if the May 19 timetable change comes and goes with no major timetable change on the GW network.

A quote on the WNXX Forum yesterday (11/07/2018) from a GWR employee:
Quote
Mark Hopwood informed us this afternoon that electrification through to Cardiff has been put back, possibly to June/July 2019. The IET and 802 delivery plan will stay on schedule with considerably more diesel mileage than planned.

...so expect many announcements ".....train service has been cancelled due to shortage of fuel." :P



Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: bobm on July 12, 2018, 10:58:48
There may well be *some* timetable changes in December/January as access to depots and track layouts change but there won't be the widespread changes originally planned.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: RichardB on July 12, 2018, 11:38:17
Here's Mark Hopwood's e-mail, sent out this morning -

"You may have seen Monday’s media release by the Rail Delivery Group, confirming that timetable changes for December 18 have been postponed.  This includes GWR timetable plans.

This is very disappointing news for customers. However, it is important that everyone is confident in the industry’s ability to deliver on timetable improvements as important as these, and although the delivery of trains and crew remains on track, it is clear from Network Rail’s recent review that there is some nervousness about the ability of the industry to deliver the new timetable in December 2018.

Given that position, we understand why Andrew Haines, new CEO of Network Rail, has recommended holding off key aspects of the December 2018 timetable change to protect day to day journeys for customers.

Changes to track layout and depot access in December will mean the current GWR timetable cannot simply be extended, and some work to re-write timetables will be needed. We will be working with Network Rail to make sure both our planning team, and theirs, have the support and resource required to ensure a smooth transition for some changes in December, with a view to May 2019 for the main timetable recast.

While timetable changes are pushed back, we will continue to deliver the improvements promised customers from early 2019, like the continued roll out of the Intercity Express Trains – which are more reliable and have around 20% more seats than the High Speed Trains they replace. However, it is the timetable change that brings faster journeys and frequency improvements and it is these additional benefits that will be delayed.

We will be keeping in close contact with Network Rail and will keep you updated as things progress."


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: devonexpress on July 23, 2018, 00:22:20
This might be very bad news for SWR.

The new franchise was costed on an increase in services in December 2018. If the DfT don't compensate FirstGroup/MTR then the already (rumoured) shaky financial predicament the franchise is in could be exacerbated.

Stagecoach/Virgin East Coast blamed Network Rail (so, by proxy blaming the Govt) for their financial predicament after being supposedly unable to introduce more services. They then defaulted when the government refused any sort of bailout.

It's quite feasible the same could happen to SWR.

Half the problem with a disintegrated railway, hopefully the new plan of TOC's running track and trains might help, but full privatisation is the best answer.


Title: Re: GWR & SWR to run current timetable until May next year
Post by: ellendune on July 23, 2018, 07:47:52
Half the problem with a disintegrated railway, hopefully the new plan of TOC's running track and trains might help, but full privatisation is the best answer.

I can see arguments that vertical integration could help, but full privatisation?   That seems to me more a matter of political or economic dogma. 

There is the argument that the government is doing so badly let the private sector take over, but then given the mind set of our government some will argue that they are doing so badly in order to give them an excuse privitise the whole thing. 

But then they couldn't keep their hands off it when it was privitised.   



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