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Have the Cardiff to Portsmouth trains officially stepped up to 5 cars?    I note:




Which looks like 3 of the 8 (?) diagrams being reported short.   I know that 165s are also starting to appear on a couple of diagrams - in theory again ...


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... and indeed I wonder if there are some of the other Cardiff to Portsmouth diagrams stepped up to 5 cars, rather than running them as 3 cars and maintaining other services.

Anyone shed any light on the Cardiff / Portsmouth diagrams

The normal 3 car services are strengthened at peak times between Bristol and Cardiff/Westbury. That's the theory anyway although it doesn't seem to be happening much at present.  Lack of services from Trowbridge towards Bristol this morning with the 0800 not stopping and the 0851 cancelled.  I imagine that the 0823 was cosy.

I have seen a document (Station working) which indicates that during High Summer that they are supposed to stay attached throughout the day

So an attempt to provide a more comfortable journey but struggling to do so with trains out of service needing repair.

It's a shame we don't get info regarding what is going on strategically regarding this.

The handing back of stock on lease hasn't helped obviously and 165's have only recently started appearing. Along with the ongoing 158 refurb programme and weather, and reputedly lack of engineers to repair failed units then it's a killer.

I understand peaks are meant to be 5 car and have needed to be be for a number of years, getting the reliability out of the stock avai!able is the problem.

Last weekend there were a number of diagrams being covered by 2 car units leaving people stranded.And 3 car 150/0 are not uncommon.

And 3+2 seating on this route is ridiculous in my opinion and seriously retrograde. First just claim additional seats on the route without doing anything

2 diagrams on the Portsmouths today, 2 vice 3. Could be cozy at times if you find one of these turn up.

I’m on the 08:30 ex-Cardiff (delayed 10:02 from Westbury).  It’s a 158 three car but still cosy at the Portsmouth end of the train.

Several 5-car diagrams on Cardiff - Portsmouth today.  The only one I actually saw was the 0730 ex Cardiff and that was definitely a turbo.
Does anyone know if all the diagrams are now turbos, or whether there are also 158s in the mix?

Two of the seven(?) daily diagrams are 5-car Turbo’s at present, with the rest to follow by the summer I believe.  Though one of those two diagrams was just a 3-car today.

One starts off with the 07:30 CDF-PMH, then 11:23 PMH-CDF, then 15:30 CDF-PMH where the two units go their own separate ways at Westbury.

The other works the 09:30 CDF-PMH, 13:23 PMH-CDF, 17:30 CDF-PMH and 21:23 PMH-WSB.

Eight diagrams in total and, as you say, the 0930 diagram was only 3-cars today.

Maybe not the 0930, but I think maybe the 1030 was a 5-car because the 1423 ex PMH was 5 today.

One of the Turbo diagrams is a 3-car again today.

Yesterday the 10:23 ex Portsmouth Harbour and the 10:30 ex Cardiff Central were both 158s.  Seen here crossing at Westbury

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/cdfpmh.jpg)

158 + 150 between Cardiff and Bristol only

3-car turbo on the 1730 from Cardiff to be swapped for a 2-car turbo at Bristol TM this evening!

That will be cozy for commuters from Bristol this evening.

Are they finally going to bin those awful pacers, class 142 I think?.

It certainly needs 5 cars at peak, as does anything that stops at Filton Abbey Wood.

To be fair to GWR, they did manage to provide a like-for-like 3-car turbo swap in the end.

Warminster 1 o'clock this afternoon.

Two 16?s nailed together heading to Cardiff.  A two car 150 heading for Portsmouth Harbour.

Progress ??

Yes, but walking before running.  There are just supposed to be two sets of 165/166 diagrammed daily, but they haven’t enough to run them both at 5 car.

You’d have also seen a 3 car (166213) at about 1500.  Stated elsewhere they are supposed to be running daily at 0730, 0930, 1530, and 1730 from Cardiff, and 1123, 1323, 1923 and 2123 from Portsmouth Harbour.

Paul

Sorry Paul, but I wouldn't describe what is happening on this line as "walking before running". The whole concept of replacing 158s with 165/6s is grossly flawed from the outset. To add insult to injury the existing (now nicely refurbished !) rolling stock is disappearing long before the replacement 165/6s are available and are being substituted by 150s. I don't call this progress - it is little more than a con-trick ! As I said in another thread, this is a repeat of the shambles when FGW took over the franchise from Wessex.........except that this time the 3 car 158s are being replaced by 2 car 150s, instead of just 2 car 158s as they were then. Also, this time they are doing it to themselves - absolutely brilliant !!

I had a trip on a refurbished Class 158 the other week.  Very nice interiors for a long distance regional service but let down by the awful legroom I’ve always found disappointing with that particular fleet.

GWR haven't had any 142s for over seven years.

And Pacers of any description have never been used on the Portsmouth to Cardiff run on any regular basis (thankfully!), so I wasn't sure how the question fitted in this thread.

0830 Cardiff to Portsmouth, 1223 return from Portsmouth and 1630 from Cardiff also seem to be 5-car now - but perhaps it's a 158 + 150 diagram?

The one I saw was definitely a 16? combo - too many doors for 15?s !

The 0830 Cardiff to Portsmouth  etc., is booked 158+150 detaching the 150 at Bristol TM for SPM   and the 1223 ex Portsmouth Harbour does similar i reverse.  According to RTT both ECS ran to and from Depot.

Arriva trains wales did back last summer though.

Transport for Wales who took over still have them now.

The 150s were only working it due to a shortage on the day.  It frequently happens on the route, Turbos or not

Yes, but there seem to be more and more days when there are "shortages". It used to be a bit of a rarity to see 150s working the Portsmouth trains - it isn't any more. The Gt Malvern services from Warminster & Southampton were often 150s, they were replaced by Turbos some months ago - the displaced 150s are still here being put to other use.

Having spent many years pootling to and fro Taplow/Paddington on ageing, overcrowded Turbos with all their foibles and shortcomings, I really don't envy anyone going all the way from Cardiff to Portsmouth on one.

Given the choice of a totally wedged 3-car 158 or a 5-car Turbo with room to spare on that route and I know which I’d choose.  Shame it couldn’t be 6-car 158s or 6-car 185s, or 5/6-car new build Bi-modes mind you.

The displaced 150s have transferred to the West of England but still visit but not in same numbers

Perhaps, but over 3 hours on a Turbo? That's a pretty awful prospect, I cannot imagine that those trains were designed with such "long haul" trips in mind for passengers.

I can't imagine doing Reading to Plymouth on a Turbo.

Replacing one bad thing with a slightly less bad thing represents very little in terms of progress.

The idea of travelling 3 hours and 20 minutes - 200 minutes - on a turbo fills me with horror. That's a longer journey than London to Plymouth - and just imaging what the people of Plymouth would have to say about the turbo seating if it were fitted to an IET - the current grouches about hard seats and lack of buffet would look like just an opening skirmish.

But ...

The Cardiff to Portsmouth service suffers "Cross Country Syndrome". Just as the number of passengers departing on the 09:25 from Plymouth (the Dundee train) travelling all the way to Dundee is probably pretty small, so I suspect the number leaving Cardiff Central on a Portsmouth Harbour train and actually travelling to Portsmouth Harbour is likely to be pretty small.    Yes - there are noticeable numbers of through passengers at Birmingham / Sheffield / Newcastle / Edinburgh (or Bristol / Bath Spa / Salisbury / Southampton) but there's also a very high proportion of people off and on.   And many other people are using both of the trains in these examples for much shorter intermediate journeys, never going anywhere neither either end of the route, and not staying on the train for anything like the full journey time.

Does anyone here have a breakdown (or the knowledge to guess) how long / how many miles the average passenger on a Cadiff to Portsmouth train does on that train.   Or have any idea if they went through the train and surveyed at a random point how the journey times of people on there would break down?    I actually suspect you might find that the highest proportion of  people sitting on a turbo operating out of Bristol for over 80 minutes would be found if you surveyed as the train ran between Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary!

I think going the whole distance on the 0900 Cardiff to Penzance (a 150) is an even worse prospect.

There should be people here who have found themselves on a two carriage turbo for 3+ hours from Hereford to London ...

I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution (in fact I even suggested what the perfect solution might be), but as didcotdean points out, they've been working journeys over over three hours since they were built nearly 30 years ago now in the form of Hereford to Paddington.

For me, Turbo's are fine if not too crowded, but I totally understand that your average journey on the inner Thames Valley routes would often be very crowded.  However, as Graham says, the number of long distance journeys is actually a small percentage.

My main experience over the years is on the Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour stretch of the route, and I’d estimate that sometimes about 25-30% of those on the train don’t pass through Southampton.  It will be interesting to see if the forthcoming SWR fast service between Portsmouth and Southampton, which will take a similar time but in a 450, will draw many passengers away from the GWR services. 

I guess much will depend on how it fits in with respect to changes to/from other services at Southampton?  Certainly with 5 services between Cosham or Fareham and Southampton (including the SWR all stations, and the 2 Southerns), there’s no obvious reason to choose the GWR over the 3 that will be one stop at Swanwick.  Being EMUs they should be as fast including the stop.

Paul

Seems to be a pair of the 165/166 combos regularly working to Portsmouth now. I must say they are a lot better looking than the 158s - externally anyway !

I have noticed that the drivers seem to approach the stations a lot more slowly that the 158s do. Are the brakes particularly sensitive or is this just relatively new drivers getting used to their new charges ?

(http://i68.tinypic.com/24odoqh.jpg)

1109 to P Harbour approaching Warminster this morning.

They will seem slow approaching Warminster from Westbury as there’s a 15mph speed restriction for Turbos through that particular platform.

Ah ha ! Thank you.  However, I must ask why - as they have just rebuilt the whole of that platform as part of the lengthening process. 

I suggest you ask Network Rail....! ;)

Nail hit firmly on the head! I once managed to shoehorn myself into a Portsmouth - Cardiff service on morning, on my way from Temple Meads to a meeting in Cardiff. After Filton Abbey Wood, I had a choice of carriages, let alone seats. I would suggest that there are a lot of passengers using it for Cardiff to Newport or return, Bristol and Keynsham to Bath and vv, plus any number of short local journeys in Wiltshire and Hampshire. There may the occasional Cardiff-based jolly jack tar going to join his ship in Pompey, but he will probably be asleep by Newport.

The route, like many others, seems designed to fit a train crew's shift whilst serving major centres of population and employment, rather than catering for people travelling between the two termini. I wonder how many people on the XC service from Bristol to Manchester actually go the whole distance, even though it is a true inter-city route.

Does anyone here have a breakdown (or the knowledge to guess) how long / how many miles the average passenger on a Cadiff to Portsmouth train does on that train.   Or have any idea if they went through the train and surveyed at a random point how the journey times of people on there would break down?    I actually suspect you might find that the highest proportion of  people sitting on a turbo operating out of Bristol for over 80 minutes would be found if you surveyed as the train ran between Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary!
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Either no turbos running now - or no one has noticed the extra 2 coaches at the front  :D :D

(http://i66.tinypic.com/o8tbv4.jpg)

Just what does this mean ?? (Read Cardiff to Bristol section)

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/trains-london-south-wales-going-15845255

The odd 5 car (turbo) train (as we seem to be getting now) ?:    some 5 car 158s ?(sanity perhaps):   3 car 158s (what extra seats ?):   still some 2 car 150s - of course ??:

1. You will have 2 + 2 seating on the route if you are lucky enough to get a seat in that section

2. "One group wanted a different type of rolling stock from the other" isn't quite right ... as I recall everyone wants the 158s - but with end doors they's not brilliant for frequent stops where lots of people get on or off.  3+2 trains aren't wanted by many of the people I have spoken to - however, the can be made passable to the commuters and shoppers making short journeys.