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Journey by Journey => South Western services => Topic started by: PhilWakely on July 21, 2018, 20:10:12



Title: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: PhilWakely on July 21, 2018, 20:10:12
Planned industrial action by the RMT (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action)

Quote
We have been notified by the RMT union that it intends to hold six 24-hour strikes and one 48-hour strike on the South Western Railway network (not including Island Line).

RMT strike action is planned on the following dates:

    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Thursday 26 July 2018
    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 28 July 2018
    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Tuesday 31 July 2018
    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 4 August 2018
    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 11 August 2018
    0001 Hours and 2359 Hours on Saturday 18 August 2018
    0001 Hours on Friday 31 August 2018 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 1 September 2018


We will do everything we can to minimise the effect of these strikes.

More information on train services during these strikes will appear on our website in due course.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 21, 2018, 20:18:33
Greater Anglia have just settled with the RMT, 19 July 2018

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-secures-important-guard19718/
From another Forum the basics are:
Conductors to remain safety critical
Drivers to operate doors depending on individual station safety analysis
Conductors to be trained and competent on door operation
Conductors to remain guaranteed on board all routes except Cambridge to Stansted and Liverpool Street to Ipswich where a train will run until a conductor can be provided.

Attention now focuses on SWR


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 24, 2018, 15:03:26
Thursday proposed timetable issued on link

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action

West of England services are two hourly to Yeovil Jct outside the peak, with fast bus to Exeter
BUT
• Crewkerne, Feniton, Whimple, Cranbrook and Pinhoe will not be served AT ALL. Local buses may be available but your SWR ticket will not be valid on these services.  Please use Traveline to plan your journey.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 24, 2018, 16:13:05
Seems odd that Crewkerne won't be served by repaclement buses.

The fastest route by road from Yeovil Junction to Axminster passes through Crewkerne. A diversion to the station would add no more than 10 minutes to the journey. If that's not acceptable then stopping in Crewkerne town centre is surely an option.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Fourbee on July 24, 2018, 16:19:52
Looking at the timetables for Thursday, in general, they seem to be pared down more than for previous strikes. I don't have the previous timetables to compare them to though so cannot be sure.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on July 24, 2018, 16:46:14
Worth noting, unlike previous strike days, SWR tickets marked "via Honiton" will not be accepted by GWR between Paddington and Exeter St Davids.  No doubt due to the current over-crowding and engineering work affecting GWR West of England services.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on July 24, 2018, 16:51:29
Worth noting, unlike previous strike days, SWR tickets marked "via Honiton" will not be accepted by GWR between Paddington and Exeter St Davids.  No doubt due to the current over-crowding and engineering work affecting GWR West of England services.
Has to be this way unfortunately.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 24, 2018, 16:54:35
The service arrives at Yeovil Jct at xx.38 and leaves again at x1.28. If crew times allowed then surely a trip to Crewkerne might be considered.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 24, 2018, 17:18:30
Can services be turned back at Crewkerne? I know it's single track, but once in section can a train turn back or does it have to leave the section in the same direction as it entered?

The section ends at Chard Junction. Now if only there was a station there...


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on July 24, 2018, 17:20:59
There was a problem with turning services at Melksham on the single line as it confused the axle counters.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 24, 2018, 17:37:33
Yes, during previous track occupations services have terminated and started from Crewkerne. Since the recontrol, there are up and down section signals at the station.

A station at Chard would impact on times with the single line, as well as abstract income from the adjacent stations. It strikes me that it could be looked at as part of the Devon Metro service in the future.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 25, 2018, 06:18:24
So, it looks like anyone wishing to head west from Crewkerne has to do the following. Either:

Take South West Coaches to Yeovil Bus Station, then another SWC service to Yeovil Junction. Both at their own expense. Board the replacement bus service at Yeovil Junction for Exeter St Davids via Axminster. An RRB that passes through Crewkerne town centre! Want to do that at the earliest possible start from Crewkerne? 0809 bus to Yeovil Bus Station. Arrive 0844. 0900 bus to Yeovil Junction. Arrive 0905. Wait 43 minutes. 0948 RRB to Exeter St Davids. Arrive 1138.

Or,

Take South West Coaches to Chard, then First Bus to Axminster. Again at your own expense. Want to do that at the earliest possible start from Crewkerne Station? 0730 bus to Chard. Arrive 0834. Wait 80 minutes. 0954 bus to Axminster. Arrive 1025. RRB from Axminster at 1033. Arrive Exeter St Davids 1138. Miss that 8 minute connection at Axminster and you have a two hour wait for the next RRB.

So, whichever way you go you are looking at at least 3.5 hours to get from Crewkerne to Exeter St Davids. A journey that usually takes 55 minutes by train.

And why? Because SWR have decided that the RRBs shouldn't serve Crewkerne, despite the quickest way from Yeovil Junction to Axminster being along the A30, which goes through the centre of Crewkerne. A diversion to Crewkerne Station would add no more than 10 minutes to the overall journey time. There's a 42 minute gap between the RRBs arriving at Exeter St Davids and then departing back to Yeovil Junction. Add the Crewkerne station stop and you still have 32 minutes to play with for traffic delays and breaks. The gap between buses arriving at Yeovil Junction and returning to Exeter St Davids is 93 minutes. So it appears that adding a Crewkerne Station stop doesn't require additional vehicles to maintain the two hourly service.

Poor show. Of course the ultimate blame, as far as I'm concerned, lies with a certain throwback union.

I shall at least be able to photograph the strike day 'train' services. The RRBs will pass right by my flat in Chard! Just have to guesstimate the 'passing' times...


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 25, 2018, 08:45:01
Or they might just head off to Axminster at the Cricket St Thomas turning and go via the B3167 and the Junction?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 25, 2018, 12:26:43
Or they might just head off to Axminster at the Cricket St Thomas turning and go via the B3167 and the Junction?

They may indeed. Meaning only that I don't get to do any 'spotting'. Taking that route still means passing through Crewkerne.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 25, 2018, 16:11:22
True, so perhaps pressure could be put on them to stop in Crewkerne town centre, rather than the station, in future.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 25, 2018, 16:31:05
True, so perhaps pressure could be put on them to stop in Crewkerne town centre, rather than the station, in future.

Proper notices of course. A clear 'Rail Replacement Bus' bus stop sign. And clear signage to/from the station. Not forgetting a timetable poster too.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 25, 2018, 16:46:09
I have emailed SWR asking about this


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 25, 2018, 17:06:43
I have emailed SWR asking about this

And I have tweeted!


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on July 25, 2018, 17:19:17
I’m sure you won’t be the only ones. I don’t know what passenger numbers are like at Crewkerne but I suspect it’s more than a fair few.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on July 25, 2018, 17:23:07
I’m sure you won’t be the only ones. I don’t know what passenger numbers are like at Crewkerne but I suspect it’s more than a fair few.

About 450 journeys per day (that would be about 220 arrivals and 220 departures) if the ORR ticket sale figures are a true reflection of use.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 26, 2018, 12:18:16
Saturday- nothing west of Salisbury or Bournemouth. Only fast buses as per today


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on July 26, 2018, 12:26:36
Saturday- nothing west of Salisbury or Bournemouth. Only fast buses as per today
Ouch, not good with holidays in full swing. Yes I know that's why they are striking that day.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on July 26, 2018, 14:03:14
Crewkerne gets a train! One in each direction too!

The 1109 from London Waterloo was extended to Axminster calling Crewkerne. Working back from Axmimster shortly, as I type. Scheduled for a 1406 return departure but the down service is delayed by 14 minutes.

Now, I'm not sure how useful the Crewkerne calls are. Signs up saying no trains, and the station is, according to SWR, unstaffed today.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on July 26, 2018, 14:44:04
Now, I'm not sure how useful the Crewkerne calls are. Signs up saying no trains, and the station is, according to SWR, unstaffed today.

I wouldn't use the passenger numbers in any sort of report / survey in future stations needs  :D unless I was writing a new Beeching report.

For passengers arriving into Crewkerne, its usage or otherwise will very much depend on how it's been advertised on line and at other stations.  Things like whether it was flagged as cancelled then re-instated, and whether or not web page headlines such a "no trains beyond Yeovil" turned people off before they got to the detail and found the one train.

For passengers leaving Crewkerne, it also depends additionally very much on the signage that you mention, whether departure boards are announcing the trains (one in each direction),  and what the person on the help point tells anyone who asks.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 26, 2018, 18:45:12
According to RTT, was also an ecs from New Yard to Yeovil Jct early this morning and one planned to return to Exeter tonight. Perhaps a contingency to operate a shuttle if staff can be found.
The same ecs workings are planned on Saturday but this time to and from Salisbury.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Bob_Blakey on July 26, 2018, 19:06:38
I would be very interested to learn, if the 'insider' information is available, which side in this dispute is lying.

The RMT website says:
'...the Company sabotaged the talks by confirming they intend to roll out the extension of DOO regardless.'
and
'Our members are striking today to put public safety before private profits and it’s about time SWR took note of what is going on elsewhere in the rail industry, and the settlements RMT has struck that underpin the guard guarantee,...'

while SWR state:
'...We have also offered repeated reassurances that we are guaranteeing jobs, salaries and terms and conditions of Guards. ...'

They can't both be correct.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 26, 2018, 19:16:16
Bob, I'm not totally 100% certain, but isn't the dispute about the role of the guards (i.e. they won't be safety critical anymore)?  I think the reference to their T&Cs is that those are their personal ones (like pension entitlement etc.).

I might be wrong though ::)


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on July 26, 2018, 19:57:36
According to RTT, was also an ecs from New Yard to Yeovil Jct early this morning and one planned to return to Exeter tonight. Perhaps a contingency to operate a shuttle if staff can be found.

They seem to "lead" into an early Waterloo service and back out of a late service from Waterloo.



Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Bob_Blakey on July 27, 2018, 09:19:40
Bob, I'm not totally 100% certain, but isn't the dispute about the role of the guards (i.e. they won't be safety critical anymore)?  I think the reference to their T&Cs is that those are their personal ones (like pension entitlement etc.).

I might be wrong though ::)

That is what I thought as well. But the RMT are now accusing SWR of intending to expand their DOO operational area, something which surely means the complete removal of guards/conductors (I haven't figured out the difference yet!), while SWR say this is completely untrue ('...offered repeated reassurances that we are guaranteeing jobs, salaries and terms and conditions of Guards...') so, as I say, one of the parties in this dispute is lying.

So while SWR and/or the RMT continue behaving like spoilt children the travelling public can go hang.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on July 27, 2018, 09:41:19
Bob, I'm not totally 100% certain, but isn't the dispute about the role of the guards (i.e. they won't be safety critical anymore)?  I think the reference to their T&Cs is that those are their personal ones (like pension entitlement etc.).

I might be wrong though ::)

That is what I thought as well. But the RMT are now accusing SWR of intending to expand their DOO operational area, something which surely means the complete removal of guards/conductors (I haven't figured out the difference yet!), while SWR say this is completely untrue ('...offered repeated reassurances that we are guaranteeing jobs, salaries and terms and conditions of Guards...') so, as I say, one of the parties in this dispute is lying.

So while SWR and/or the RMT continue behaving like spoilt children the travelling public can go hang.

No, I think "introducing DOO" for the RMT means trains that have only door controls for the driver. SWR's huge fleet of new trains will of course have that as standard because that's what all train operators across Europe want (allegedly). I'm sure SWR haven't ordered theirs with new controls fitted for guards to operate, still less with the drivers' ones removed. So if they are promising guards will still be retained (at least outside the inner suburban zone) they must be either talking about the system used on GWR's Turbos (buzzer signals) or else drivers doing dispatch with or without the guard's help.

I'm not sure how the world looks from inside the RMT, but I suspect TOCs are coming to see guards as essential for such things as access (wheelchairs etc.) in areas where stations are not always staffed. I think they are quite happy to concede the status thing about guards vs some other on-train customer service grade provided the RMT will accept the DOO isn't ever going to be left out of trains again.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: broadgage on July 27, 2018, 09:57:01
Bob, I'm not totally 100% certain, but isn't the dispute about the role of the guards (i.e. they won't be safety critical anymore)?  I think the reference to their T&Cs is that those are their personal ones (like pension entitlement etc.).

I might be wrong though ::)

That is what I thought as well. But the RMT are now accusing SWR of intending to expand their DOO operational area, something which surely means the complete removal of guards/conductors (I haven't figured out the difference yet!), while SWR say this is completely untrue ('...offered repeated reassurances that we are guaranteeing jobs, salaries and terms and conditions of Guards...') so, as I say, one of the parties in this dispute is lying.

So while SWR and/or the RMT continue behaving like spoilt children the travelling public can go hang.

I consider it possible that neither party is actually lying.
SWR may well be considering expanding the DOO area.

And they may well be truthfully "guaranteeing jobs, salaries and terms and conditions of Guards" Note that this does NOT actually state that "guards will be on all trains that have them at present, and will have sole charge of door operation" It promises that present salaries and other terms and conditions will remain.
So it seems possible that EXISTING guards will be retained, (possibly being found other duties) but not replaced.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 27, 2018, 10:17:39
SWR now advertising LIMITED service Salisbury to Yeovil for Saturday. Actual times to be published later


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on July 27, 2018, 10:38:57
From the RMT:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/south-western-could-be-paid-to-not-run-trains/

Quote
Parliamentary questions reveal taxpayers could pay South Western Railway not to run trains during RMT strike action
Questions tabled by MPs have revealed that the taxpayer, via the government, is set to pay South Western trains not to run trains during current strike action by RMT.

The shocking revelation com‎es as RMT members prepare for the next 24 hours of strike action from midnight tonight in the fight for safe, secure and accessible services across South Western Railway.

In response to a written question this week rail minister Joe Johnson was forced to confirm that South Western Railway has exploited a clause in its franchise agreement and applied to the government to be reimbursed for revenue loss as a result of industrial action.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: SandTEngineer on July 27, 2018, 12:27:33
Quote
In response to a written question this week rail minister Joe Johnson was forced to confirm that South Western Railway has exploited a clause in its franchise agreement and applied to the government to be reimbursed for revenue loss as a result of industrial action.

Well surely that's the fault of the organisation that wrote the contract.  Oh, hold on a minute..... ::) ;D


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: ellendune on July 27, 2018, 13:32:39
Inevitable result of DfT micromanaging the rail system.  - They set the DOO Policy - they take the risk!


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on July 27, 2018, 17:28:20
Inevitable result of DfT micromanaging the rail system.  - They set the DOO Policy - they take the risk!

............and the Unions take advantage.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: ellendune on July 27, 2018, 17:50:49
Inevitable result of DfT micromanaging the rail system.  - They set the DOO Policy - they take the risk!

............and the Unions take advantage.


Not quite sure how the Unions are taking advantage here. The DfT sets a policy they know the Unions will not agree to and so predictably there is a strike. 

Negotiations where the key decision make is not in the room are notoriously difficult to resolve. Here the DfT is trying to ape Thatcher when she took on the mineworkers, but without the competence to pull it off.  Whereas Thatcher wanted to close the mines anyway, there is no way that Grayling can shut the railways - nor can he stockpile train journeys or either as Thatcher stockpile coal at the power stations. Railways are essential to our economy - especially SWR since a large part of London including much of the civil service relies on it to get them to work.

So who is taking advantage - some could argue that SWR are taking advantage in that DfT is paying them not to run trains.  But then they predicted this would be the result of DfT's decision and so got the clause in the franchise. 

If drivers feel they are placed in an impossible position and end up in court (Hayes & Harlington) if they make a mistake in difficult circumstances the Unions will always be able to claim it is unsafe with some credibility. DOO will always need safety trained platform staff on crowded platforms.

Much better for the DfT to put their money into better technology to make existing DOO work before they start forcing it on unwilling TOCs in new areas. 


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on July 27, 2018, 17:54:53
SWR now advertising LIMITED service Salisbury to Yeovil for Saturday. Actual times to be published later
Limited in the sense that it’s buses if the timetable on the SWR website is to be believed. However, a rail shuttle service will now be operating once again between Bournemouth and Weymouth as it did on Thursday.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 27, 2018, 18:13:03
Yes, they were not in the earlier version, which just indicated a limited service without saying what type of service.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on July 28, 2018, 09:23:42
SWR running a shuttle Salisbury to Yeovil every two hours today according to RTT.
They are to call at all stations but RTT shows that the first passed all. The return called at Tisbury. The next called at all stations.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on August 02, 2018, 14:41:28
Thursday proposed timetable issued on link

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action

West of England services are two hourly to Yeovil Jct outside the peak, with fast bus to Exeter
BUT
• Crewkerne, Feniton, Whimple, Cranbrook and Pinhoe will not be served AT ALL. Local buses may be available but your SWR ticket will not be valid on these services.  Please use Traveline to plan your journey.

An update for coming strikes - from SWR to the TravelWatch SouthWest secretariat. Shared at SWR's request

Quote
Dear all,
 
I am pleased to confirm that we will now be operating a rail replacement bus service from Honiton to Exeter St Davids stopping at all stations including Whimple and Feniton (operated by Stagecoach SW). It will be on an approximately two hourly frequency and will be in addition to the two-hourly Salisbury – Exeter St Davids bus service calling at Gillingham, Sherborne, Yeovil Junction, Crewkerne, Axminster, Honiton and Exeter Central. The detailed timetables will be available on our website shortly.
 
I would be very grateful if you could disseminate this via as many social media and website channels as possible including passing on to parish council contacts if you have them.
 
Many thanks
 
Regional Development Manager
South Western Railway


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on August 02, 2018, 15:53:16
Nice to see that SWR have listened to the many complaints from passengers and stakeholders in South Somerset and East Devon.

It really wasn't acceptable that certain stations were left with no service at all. Crewkerne, Whimple and Feniton have no alternative commercial bus services to get folk to a railhead.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on August 02, 2018, 16:39:03
And here is the Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter timetable for Saturday showing the replacement bus services operating between Salisbury-Honiton-Exeter:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/~/media/files/rmt-strikes/july-august-september-strikes/timetables/timetables-4-august/0804woe.pdf?la=en


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: rogerw on August 02, 2018, 20:56:28
Still no service for Tisbury and Templecombe


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on August 09, 2018, 16:11:46
RMT suspends Saturday's stoke to allow for more talks

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-suspends-this-saturdays-strike-action-on-south-western/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on August 09, 2018, 16:27:42
RMT suspends Saturday's stoke to allow for more talks

Let's hope neither side adds more fuel to the fire.  ;)


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on August 09, 2018, 17:42:16
RMT suspends Saturday's stoke to allow for more talks

Let's hope neither side adds more fuel to the fire.  ;)
Hmmmmm you do wonder.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: broadgage on August 09, 2018, 17:51:58
RMT suspends Saturday's stoke to allow for more talks

Let's hope neither side adds more fuel to the fire.  ;)

Of special importance during the current drought and consequent increased fire risk.

I presume that barbecues are exempt !


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on August 09, 2018, 20:20:14
One day I will check the auto spellchecker!


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on August 31, 2018, 18:05:49
Friday 31 August
It seems that the 1L37 the 1320 ex Waterloo ran on to Axminster calling at Crewkerne and Axminster, returning to Yeovil Jct as ecs(5L60) before forming the 1L60 the 1629 to Waterloo.

Edit to add
Sunday 2nd September
5L92 ecs Yeovil Jct sidings to Axminster 1610
1L92 Axminster to Salisbury 1654
1L93 Salisbury to Axminster 1820
1L94 Axminster to Salisbury 1954
5L94 ecs to Yard
1L95 Salisbury to Axminster 2306
5L95 Axminster to Exeter New Yard 0017


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on September 06, 2018, 14:26:17
And on it goes. Tweet from Sky News:

Quote
RMT Union says its members on South Western Railway have voted by almost 9-1 to continue with industrial action in the long-running train guards' dispute

Depending on how many voted, that looks an overwhelming mandate to continue industrial action by RMT members. Mr Cash will be pleased.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on September 06, 2018, 17:40:05

Full statement here
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-secures-renewed-mandate-for-action-on-south-western/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on September 20, 2018, 16:19:21
The first of a new round of strikes announced

RAIL UNION RMT has confirmed that a further 48 hours of strike action will take place on South Western Railway (SWR) on Friday 5th and Saturday 6th October as the company continues to refuse to engage in a serious talks process that could reach an agreement in the long running guards' safety dispute. ‎
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-calls-48-hours-of-strike-action-on-south-western-railway/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on October 10, 2018, 11:46:26
Further dates announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45804454 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45804454)

Quote
Staff on South Western Railway (SWR) are set to stage further walkouts in a long-running dispute over the role of guards on trains.

Rail union RMT said the next strike would run from 00:01 BST on 23 October until 23:59 on 27 October, followed by further walkouts on consecutive Saturdays until 24 November.

It said SWR had "stalled" the talks process and failed to provide an offer.

The rail company accused the union of "needlessly disrupting" customers.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2018, 11:51:47
Clearly aimed at causing maximum disruption during the Autumn internationals at Twickenham. I suspect SWR were expecting it so have plenty of times to make contingency arrangements. The RMT continuing the tactic of striking to disrupt the leisure market picking half term week for their 5 dayer.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: paul7575 on October 10, 2018, 12:11:20
Nothing the company would ever offer will be acceptable to the RMT, unless SWR (First/MTR) agree the status quo will never change at all during the current franchise.  So I doubt the company will do anything. 

Paul


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2018, 12:46:48
Nothing the company would ever offer will be acceptable to the RMT, unless SWR (First/MTR) agree the status quo will never change at all during the current franchise.  So I doubt the company will do anything. 

Paul
They won't, they can't.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: ellendune on October 10, 2018, 13:06:33
Nothing the company would ever offer will be acceptable to the RMT, unless SWR (First/MTR) agree the status quo will never change at all during the current franchise.  So I doubt the company will do anything. 

Paul
They won't, they can't.


That's the thing really. The dispute is not really with SWR its with DfT who are just hiding behind SWR.  Unless DfT back down SWR just have to live with it. That's why SWR insisted on a clause in the contract that means DfT must compensate SR for their losses due to the strikes and also why DfT agreed to that clause. 


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 10, 2018, 13:15:30
Clearly aimed at causing maximum disruption during the Autumn internationals at Twickenham. I suspect SWR were expecting it so have plenty of times to make contingency arrangements. The RMT continuing the tactic of striking to disrupt the leisure market picking half term week for their 5 dayer.

I'd be genuinely interested in the contingency arrangements that are capable of shifting (the bulk of) 82,000 people to & from Twickenham.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2018, 17:09:33
I'd be genuinely interested in the contingency arrangements that are capable of shifting (the bulk of) 82,000 people to & from Twickenham.
I suspect drafting in as many contingency guards as required to run the usual timetable that would operate when England are playing at Twickenham.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on October 10, 2018, 17:17:33
That's the thing really. The dispute is not really with SWR its with DfT who are just hiding behind SWR.  Unless DfT back down SWR just have to live with it. That's why SWR insisted on a clause in the contract that means DfT must compensate SR for their losses due to the strikes and also why DfT agreed to that clause. 
Which makes you wonder what the RMT hope to achieve as they aren’t fighting First/MTR but a Tory government who don’t give in to strikes.

It’s not worked on Southern, it’s not working at Northern either. The government just have to sit it out until the RMT run out of steam (or money) if you’ll excuse the pun.

I will be interested to see how SWR handle a five day strike mind. Will stretch their resources to the limit I suspect. Coping with one or two day strikes is one thing; five could be a very different challenge.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Lee on October 10, 2018, 17:23:55
Clearly aimed at causing maximum disruption during the Autumn internationals at Twickenham. I suspect SWR were expecting it so have plenty of times to make contingency arrangements. The RMT continuing the tactic of striking to disrupt the leisure market picking half term week for their 5 dayer.

I'd be genuinely interested in the contingency arrangements that are capable of shifting (the bulk of) 82,000 people to & from Twickenham.

"This train is formed of 1242 coaches"


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 10, 2018, 18:36:09
RMT Leadership at the bottom of a ruck lying over the ball.......what a lovely thought! (for those of us who played when rucking was allowed of course!) 🙂👣🏉


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on October 10, 2018, 19:39:44
Is rucking no longer permitted in Union?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CMRail on October 10, 2018, 22:30:12
Clearly aimed at causing maximum disruption during the Autumn internationals at Twickenham. I suspect SWR were expecting it so have plenty of times to make contingency arrangements. The RMT continuing the tactic of striking to disrupt the leisure market picking half term week for their 5 dayer.

I'd be genuinely interested in the contingency arrangements that are capable of shifting (the bulk of) 82,000 people to & from Twickenham.

"This train is formed of 1242 coaches"

Passengers for Twickenham should request to the conductor on the train to alight here.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on October 10, 2018, 22:32:48
Is rucking no longer permitted in Union?

I remember rucking as the removal of prone players on the wrong side of the ball by the backward use of the foot; not stamping and not contact with the knee and ankle joints......then again I also remember scrums when the scrum half had to put the ball in straight..........


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Surrey 455 on October 11, 2018, 23:43:52
Further dates announced

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45804454 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45804454)

Quote
Staff on South Western Railway (SWR) are set to stage further walkouts in a long-running dispute over the role of guards on trains.

Rail union RMT said the next strike would run from 00:01 BST on 23 October until 23:59 on 27 October, followed by further walkouts on consecutive Saturdays until 24 November.

It said SWR had "stalled" the talks process and failed to provide an offer.

The rail company accused the union of "needlessly disrupting" customers.

Sigh. That will be more Saturdays where I hang around my local station for the replacement bus that doesn't show up or is half an hour late. :'(


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on October 31, 2018, 19:27:38
Transport Focus have published a paper "Saturday strikes – the passenger viewpoint" ... it concerns Northern, but I suspect similar passengers views might be found in SWR territory

https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/news-events-media/news/tuv-november-2018-saturday-strikes-the-passenger-viewpoint/

Quote
In summary, this panel research shows the disruption is eroding trust among the travelling public, coming on top of the damage caused by the disruption following the May timetable change.It remains unclear to passengers exactly what changes Northern may seek to make to staffing on trains or at stations and how these changes might affect their journeys in future. If trust is to be rebuilt, then Northern, Department for Transport and Transport for the North will need to communicate much more clearly, and transparently, about the plans for the franchise and urgently address passengers’ concerns about accessibility and personal safety.



Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on February 18, 2019, 19:34:11
The next round of strikes on South Western Railway have been suspended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47282564


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 18, 2019, 22:19:47
The next round of strikes on South Western Railway have been suspended.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47282564

Well that's good news.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on February 19, 2019, 09:53:32
Certainly is good news, and probably the obvious conclusion after the resolution of the Northern Rail dispute. A clear victory for everybody involved on all sides, except the passengers.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on February 19, 2019, 16:54:40
Certainly is good news, and probably the obvious conclusion after the resolution of the Northern Rail dispute. A clear victory for everybody involved on all sides, except the passengers.
From what I can see a clear win for the RMT and a loss for SWR/Dft.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on February 19, 2019, 17:15:02
From what I can see a clear win for the RMT and a loss for SWR/Dft.

Ask SWR / DfT, see what they say. RMT will help them with a face-saver, but will not hide their feelings at their own success. It comes as a bit of  a surprise, given that this was something of a proxy war between unions and government, but government blinked first. I expect the government will do the decent thing, and blame Chris Grayling.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 19, 2019, 17:32:41
From what I can see a clear win for the RMT and a loss for SWR/Dft.

Ask SWR / DfT, see what they say. RMT will help them with a face-saver, but will not hide their feelings at their own success. It comes as a bit of  a surprise, given that this was something of a proxy war between unions and government, but government blinked first. I expect the government will do the decent thing, and blame Chris Grayling.

…………….the way you go on about Chris Grayling, people are going to start thinking that maybe you don't like him?  ;)


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on February 19, 2019, 17:51:58
…………….the way you go on about Chris Grayling, people are going to start thinking that maybe you don't like him?  ;)

I wouldn't say that - he may be good company over dinner or a beer or six, I don't know.  He doesn't seem the most competent man to have ever filled the job, though.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Bob_Blakey on February 19, 2019, 17:57:12
Working on my, possibly erroneous, view that the dispute centred around an attempt by the DfT to remove Guards / Conductors from even more services  - a policy with which I completely disagree - I regard this announcement as very good news.
If it also serves to heap more opprobrium upon the incompetent that is Chris Grayling - our elected representative who lectures us on the dangers of global warming/climate change while cancelling numerous rail electrification schemes - that can only be a good thing.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on May 30, 2019, 17:28:55
It’s back on:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/south-western-railway-plan-fiveday-strike-during-royal-ascot-in-train-guards-dispute-a4155351.html

I thought this had been sorted, clearly not.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2019, 18:18:43
Here we go again...……..hopefully the senior bruvvers will be provided with transport to Royal Ascot, they do love their hospitality!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/southwestern-rail-strike-latest-royal-ascot-train-guards-london-waterloo-a8961531.html


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on June 18, 2019, 07:14:20
At least it shouldn't affect the Queen's ability to get there.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: martyjon on June 18, 2019, 08:20:14
At least it shouldn't affect the Queen's ability to get there.

Her train is operated by DBS.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on October 18, 2019, 13:53:27
Shh .... don't tell Mick, but ...

French TV have been reporting an unannounced rail strike across much of the country today. Initially it was all about the stranded passengers, and they took a while to come up with much on the background.

Events started with a crash on a level crossing at Saint-Pierre-sur-Vence (Ardennes) on Wednesday (yes - a convoi exceptionnel parked on the crossing again). That train had no guard (controlleur), a practice SNCF first introduced on TERs five years ago. The driver - who was slightly injured (the front of the train was pretty mangled) - was reported as struggling to look after himself, the train, and the passengers.

This was not technically a strike, according to the unions, but the drivers exercising their "right of withdrawal" in the face of danger. The government point out that this right (which isn't specific, it applies to most workers) doesn't really apply except to new and unforeseen dangers, and this looks a lot like something planned in advance by the unions as part of their campaign to keep their controlleurs.

English report now available from The Connexion (https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-SNCF-trains-across-the-country-disrupted-in-surprise-social-movement-by-CGT-workers):


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on October 27, 2019, 18:29:42
I was wondering whether the RMT had picked up on this French example, directly relevant to their own campaigns ... but no, and maybe that's not a surprise.

As to what happened next, well the next day (Saturday) SNCF had decided there was no future in being conciliatory, and started talking about legal action for calling an illegal strike. The level of service started to improve steadily each day, which is probably what they were relying on. A couple of inspecteurs de travail* did rule that the danger did justify the withdrawal of labour, but appear not to have the power do do so.

The topic has dropped out of the headlines, but that's because it was replaced by two other SNCF stories.  From Thursday, a strike at the depot for the RGV Atlantique trains started to cause a lot of cancellations. Then the main line west of Montpellier was washed away (and other lines closed by flooding). This is not quite Dawlish - 10 m of formation has gone, but not much of the ground the formation was built on, and its repair is due by November 4th. Surprisingly, there is no diversionary line, and as they can't find enough buses no alternative is being offered to the suspended services to Toulouse, Perpignan, and Spain.
(https://images.midilibre.fr/api/v1/images/view/5db134493e45466cfa033e85/large/image.jpg?v=1)

* not equivalent to anything here - they enforce all kinds of employment laws


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on November 05, 2019, 17:30:49
A not very festive December
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50307665 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50307665)

Expected days for disruption:

    From 00:01 GMT on Monday 2 December until 23:59 on Wednesday 11 December
    From 00:01 on Friday 13 December until 23:59 on Tuesday 24 December
    From 00:01 on Friday 27 December 2019 until 23:59 on the 1 January


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on November 05, 2019, 17:53:20
Absolutely insane and totally wrong to burden passengers who have to use SWR services with such a long period of strike action. Quite clear it’s a make or break situation to be going to such levels of action.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on November 05, 2019, 17:58:38
An added burden for GWR customers hoping to use London Waterloo when London Paddington is shut on the 24th and 27th December for engineering work.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: rogerw on November 05, 2019, 18:11:50
RMT members on SWR must be highly paid if they can afford to be on strike for that length of time at this time of year.  I am sure that the union will not be making up their pay.  Perhaps the union bosses could show solidarity and not be paid during that time :P :P


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on November 05, 2019, 18:26:35
XC down to Southampton and Bournemouth will be even more rammed, especially when the Winchester Christmas Market is on.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on November 05, 2019, 19:28:44
Is there a reason why the instruction not to book on doesn’t include the 12th December?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on November 05, 2019, 19:36:30
Is there a reason why the instruction not to book on doesn’t include the 12th December?
General Election.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on November 05, 2019, 19:41:36
Of course  ;D


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on November 05, 2019, 20:33:33
Is there a reason why the instruction not to book on doesn’t include the 12th December?

Election Rebellion.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on November 06, 2019, 07:00:27
Does that mean that the Communication Workers Union will modify their action to allow for postal votes?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on November 06, 2019, 17:12:46
Does that mean that the Communication Workers Union will modify their action to allow for postal votes?

Ooh, now there's an interesting conundrum! The mood music from CWU headquarters suggests no concessions will be made, as shown in the ITV report. (https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-05/no-doubt-whatsoever-on-royal-mail-strikes-through-general-election-and-christmas/) That will pose a dilemma not just for postal balloting, but for the delivery of firelighting material party manifestos and candidates' sales pitch.

Some think, though, that Terry Pullinger, UCW General Secretary, is simply refusing to remove no-deal from the table to strengthen his hand in negotiations.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Henry on November 06, 2019, 18:25:45

 Makes you wonder what the RMT were thinking.
 
 Can staff really afford such a length of time off, bearing in mind
 the time of year ?

 With some manager's working trains, could you see the gradual shift
 back to work ?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on November 06, 2019, 18:42:16

 Makes you wonder what the RMT were thinking.
 
 Can staff really afford such a length of time off, bearing in mind
 the time of year ?

 With some manager's working trains, could you see the gradual shift
 back to work ?

I think the idea may be to put so much stress on what is an improvised arrangement, using staff with other jobs to do, that the company can't keep it up. Of course it also puts a lot of stress on their members, so runs the risk that the strike will crumble first.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Celestial on November 06, 2019, 18:47:31
I think RMT are offering quite a lot of strike pay, so that the overall impact might not be that great.  How long they could afford to do that if the dispute drags on is another matter though.

Would First draft in managers from other franchises, particularly GWR.  That could add considerably to the pool of replacement guards, though would be disruptive to GWR as they wouldn't be doing their day job for quite a while.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on November 07, 2019, 07:08:19
Replacements from other franchises possibly not quite so feasible after timetable changes?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on November 22, 2019, 07:08:08
From Spire fm (https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2994009/how-many-trains-will-run-during-the-south-western-railway-strikes/):

Quote
More details have been revealed about how the timetables will be affected during December.
27 days of strike action have been called by members of the RMT union throughout next month.
They're planned to take place from December 2nd.
As we get closer to the walkouts, South Western Railway (SWR) has put out some information to passengers about the ways that will affect travel.

They've said there are a few key points:
More than half of normal Monday to Friday services are expected to run, but there will the same level of peak services as in previous strikes
Peak services will be much busier than normal though, queuing may be introduced at busier stations
Services will finish earlier than normal at around 11.00pm
Off-peak frequencies will be reduced
Buses will replace trains on some routes, with ticket acceptance with other operators on others

There is a map and

Quote
The map shows services from Salisbury towards London or Yeovil Junction will be less frequent.

It also suggests SWR won't be running ANY services from Salisbury towards Southampton Central - but other operators will be running on that route.

From Surrey Live (https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/swr-guard-desperate-deal-rmt-17293783) - what SWR, the RMT, and (one, but could be common views) guard are saying.

Quote
SWR guard desperate for deal as RMT confirms mammoth 27-day December strike

An SWR guard has told SurreyLive his thoughts on the long-running dispute

The 27-day RMT strike on the South Western Railway network in December looks set to go ahead after resolution talks failed.

Workers from the Rail, Maritime and Transport union are staging the mammoth December walk-out as the ongoing dispute regarding the future role of train guards rumbles on.

Arbitration service ACAS held two days of talks between the two sides earlier this week. However, the RMT announced on Thursday (November 21) that the strike will go ahead as planned.

Chris Luckins, an SWR guard, contacted SurreyLive after the latest round of action was tabled, saying he just wants the dispute settled.

He explained that the sticking point remains the future role of guards and the proposal that drivers would have control of opening and closing doors.

"The RMT have agreed that the drivers could open the doors of the train, and the guard will take part in the dispatch of the train," he says. "This would ensure that all passengers can board or alight in safety. The train guard will then give the signal to the driver to carry on.

"There are several rail operating companies who use this method of operation for their train services, both guards and drivers working well together.

"Many of the stations on our network are understaffed for long hours through the day and night. It is essential for those passengers who require assistance that there is a guard on every train."

Mr Luckins added that he and his fellow guards will be happy to support "anything that will help settle this dispute".

Campaign group SWR Watch has been keeping a close eye on the long-running disagreement. Jeremy Varns, from the group, says he understands that SWR wants the role of the guard to change from operational - dealing with the doors and dispatch, to providing customer service - information, checking tickets and helping passengers on/off the trains.

"In short, FirstGroup and SWR are currently not willing to make assurances beyond stating that no staff will lose their jobs and that all new trains will have a second crew member (with the driver controlling the doors)," he added.


The strike will run from: Monday, December 2 to Wednesday, December 11; Friday, December 13 to Tuesday, December 24; and Friday, December 27 to Wednesday, January 1.

On confirming the strike, RMT general secretary Mick Cash said: "Throughout these ‎talks SWR have not shown any intention of moving the issues at the heart of the dispute forwards despite verbal assurances in earlier discussions.

"It has become increasingly clear that they are not interested in reaching a settlement at this time."

In response, a spokesman for SWR says it is "very disappointed" that the action will go ahead. "Despite promising to keep guards on all our trains and promising that they will have a safety critical role, the talks broke down yesterday," he said.

"We believe these promises deliver on what the RMT has been asking for, so these strikes are unnecessary."


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: rogerw on November 22, 2019, 07:21:28
This has been running for so long that I am beginning to wonder if RMT can actually remember what the issues are.  They have never really spelt them out.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on November 22, 2019, 10:11:04
This has been running for so long that I am beginning to wonder if RMT can actually remember what the issues are.  They have never really spelt them out.

That's never stopped the RMT before to be fair.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on November 22, 2019, 10:50:08
At least I have the option of driving to Castle Cary to join the rail network.

I already know of a few people in Templecombe who will struggle thanks to this pointless action by the RMT union dinosaurs.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Celestial on November 22, 2019, 12:01:16
At least I have the option of driving to Castle Cary to join the rail network.

I already know of a few people in Templecombe who will struggle thanks to this pointless action by the RMT union dinosaurs.
It's not pointless from the RMT's perspective. It's sole aim is to ensure that they still have the power to stop the trains, and thus keep their industrial muscle. So a guarantee of a second person on every train is not enough, they have to have control of the doors.

From everyone else's perspective, I totally agree though! As with the dinosaur description.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on November 22, 2019, 19:33:49
Timetables for services Monday-Friday 2-6 December now available:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action/monday-to-friday


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: broadgage on November 22, 2019, 19:46:09
This has been running for so long that I am beginning to wonder if RMT can actually remember what the issues are.  They have never really spelt them out.

The strikes are for safety of course.
Most strikes these days are for safety. Declaring a strike for higher wages is now very last year. A big enough pay rise sometimes makes the danger go away.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on November 23, 2019, 01:30:17
Timetables for services Monday-Friday 2-6 December now available:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action/monday-to-friday

If anyone has any advance gen about the strike timetable for Saturday 7th December I'd be very grateful. Friends in Templecombe have a planned trip to London on that day and would like as much notice as possible about their rail options. I've suggested Castle Cary but as they're going to football (White Hart Lane), and would like a beer or three, they'd prefer not to need a designated driver, or fork out for taxis between Templecombe and Castle Cary.

Had I still had the 7 seat Zafira I'd have offered to run them to and from CLC in exchange for a drink or three in the social club. Don't think I could get 4 adults and a nipper in my Megane!


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Umberleigh on December 02, 2019, 13:33:07
So, it would seem that all SWR appear to have achieved to date is to create an insipid new livery, a hideous new logo and embark on this whole fiasco regarding door opening which has resulted in weeks of industrial action.

Bring back SWT.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on December 02, 2019, 20:12:07
I came across this link on RailUK Forums, reply#49

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/will-a-new-md-for-swr-mean-an-end-to-the-strike-action.195946/page-2

 It references a  RMT meeting with acas

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/proposals-from-acas/proposals-from-acas.pdf


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 03, 2019, 06:54:58
There are reports of at least two people passing out yesterday on severely overcrowded SWR services. Ironic that the Unions are insisting that this latest strike is about safety.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on December 03, 2019, 10:02:05
This morning's BBC local report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50614066) has a picture of crowds waiting at Wokingham.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/834/cpsprodpb/8BF3/production/_109972853_strike_wokingham.jpg)
They are on p2, so heading to Reading, but many would be going to London (more than usually, I expect). Further down it says:
Quote
Becky Bartlett, from Wokingham in Berkshire, said she was an hour late for work in London after her regular train was cancelled.

"I have various theatre and gig plans for the month, plus Christmas parties and events, which I have either had to cancel, some at loss of the ticket price, or I'm going to have to pay for a £30+ taxi from Reading just to get home.

"This whole experience is going to be horrific. I'm one day in and I've already had enough.".

But, as I've noted before, Wokingham does a lot better under the strike timetable than most other places; the usual off-peak 2 tph runs all day so all that's lost is the step-up to nearly 4 tph in the peaks. Still bad for finding a seat, but at the outer end of the line not impossibly so. Cancelling her usual train would leave the next one still running less that 20 minutes later.

But yesterday several trains - from GWR as well as SWR's strike timetable  - were cancelled due to a very naughty track circuit near Winnersh. It was fixed just in time for the evening peak, to be followed by a more normall degree of chaos (due in part to other issues). Nothing to do with the strike, in fact.

As to late trains, the last train from Reading is GWR's - but how well that will cope at Christmas with the last two SWR trains not running is certainly debatable. An in any case, a lot of (most?) people find trains stop too early or don't feel reliable enough to rely on them to get home from an evening out.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on December 03, 2019, 11:08:16
This morning's BBC local report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50614066) has a picture of crowds waiting at Wokingham.

Striking similarity to the Daily Mail cartoon!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7749355/PAUL-THOMAS-rail-strike-chaos.html


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on December 03, 2019, 12:44:18
This morning's BBC local report (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50614066) has a picture of crowds waiting at Wokingham.

Striking similarity to the Daily Mail cartoon!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7749355/PAUL-THOMAS-rail-strike-chaos.html

Now, would that be a vote for or against John Redwood? Either way, there's a problem - postal votes are only going out about now; it's surprisingly late and can deny you that option if you go away for more than a week then!


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on December 03, 2019, 14:17:24
RMT calling for more talks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50641207


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TaplowGreen on December 03, 2019, 18:23:06
The shape of things to come...………….


https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-mcdonnell-promised-south-western-railway-strike-union-youll-be-with-us-in-government-a4303206.html


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on December 03, 2019, 18:32:03
In the middle of the strike but the SWR still managed to run their ecs Salisbury to Weymouth and return today, under a Very Short Term Plan.
Only a few days until the Yeovil train crew depot opens


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: rogerw on December 03, 2019, 19:07:54
Different union. ECS does not need a guard.  Interesting that RMT are seeking new talks. Could mean that the members are not fully in support or they are worried that the length of the strike means that they would run out of money before the end


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on December 09, 2019, 14:50:25
RMT has published a six point road map towards the settlement of the industrial action

Quote
1. That there will be an active safety critical guard on every passenger train in service.
2. That guards will retain their safety critical competencies including an active role in the safe dispatch of trains.
3. That as far as practicable every station and train will be 100 per cent accessible for passengers with guards playing a role in the accessibility of services for all passengers.
4. SWR will guarantee the role of the guard until the end of the franchise and seek DfT commitment beyond the life of the current franchise.
5. That it is feasible to create an optimal method of dispatch in which the guard has an active and defined role as well as being able to provide passenger assistance.
6. RMT recognises the company’s ambition to reduce station dwell times to an appropriately efficient and safe time. The current difference between driver-only and active-guard is 3-4 seconds and RMT will work with the company on this issue. This will include implementation of driver releasing doors and future implementation of Automatic Braking-Door Open (ABDO) system.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-sets-out-six-point-road-map-to-a-settlement-on-swr/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: CyclingSid on December 16, 2019, 06:59:38
I see in today's newspaper that among other planned legislation of the new administration will
Quote
Another bans "all out" strikes on public transport so that trade unions cannot shut down a rail company's entire operations.
Not a fan of strikes myself but do wonder if this sort of legislation can be counter productive. Seem to remember that they banned all strikes/union representation at GCHQ and then had to row back a few years later.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: mjones on December 16, 2019, 07:53:13
I see in today's newspaper that among other planned legislation of the new administration will
Quote
Another bans "all out" strikes on public transport so that trade unions cannot shut down a rail company's entire operations.
Not a fan of strikes myself but do wonder if this sort of legislation can be counter productive. Seem to remember that they banned all strikes/union representation at GCHQ and then had to row back a few years later.

Maybe, but the RMT could usefully reflect on the wisdom of reminding voters what 1970s trade unionism looks like during a general election campaign...


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: TonyK on December 16, 2019, 19:54:43
I see in today's newspaper that among other planned legislation of the new administration will
Quote
Another bans "all out" strikes on public transport so that trade unions cannot shut down a rail company's entire operations.
Not a fan of strikes myself but do wonder if this sort of legislation can be counter productive. Seem to remember that they banned all strikes/union representation at GCHQ and then had to row back a few years later.

It wasn't so much rowing back as a change of government. It was one of the first actions of the new Labour government in 1997, and probably one of the easiest. The ban was not reimposed by the next government, who probably thought it was possible to be a union member without being a traitor.
Three of the 14 people actually sacked for refusing to give up union membership were re-employed at GCHQ, the other 11 having either retired or found new jobs - I don't know where either! The ban achieved nothing beyond making everybody in Britain aware of what goes on in Cheltenham other than the horse racing. And if you were wondering, Geoffrey Prime, the GCHQ worker who served almost 20 years of a 35-year sentence for passing GCHQ stuff to the Russians at around the same time, was not a union member.
As to banning strikes on the railway, I can't see it helping much, and it might just escalate this proxy war between the government and RMT into a national conflict.

The shape of things to come...………….

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/john-mcdonnell-promised-south-western-railway-strike-union-youll-be-with-us-in-government-a4303206.html

This is more likely to hasten the end of the dispute, one way or another. I can see that hanging on until the new Labour government arrives would be a good idea in the weeks leading up to an election, but another 10 years is a long time to wait. Time for a compromise, or failing that, something that looks enough like one to show a victory for both sides.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: johngreg on January 05, 2020, 22:40:11
Given that the RMT are planning further SWR strikes (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/30/south-western-railway-faces-fresh-wave-of-rmt-strikes-in-new-year) can someone tell me why this dispute is ogoing when other RMT action on guards with other franchises seem to have be resolved?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 05, 2020, 23:05:05
Send in Mark Hopwood...   ;)


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on January 06, 2020, 07:25:20
Can Mark bring anything different to the negotiating table that his predecessor couldn’t if the same rules laid down by the Dft still apply?

Maybe a different less hostile approach to the RMT?


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: SandTEngineer on January 06, 2020, 11:12:35
From the TIMES:

Quote
The new boss of South Western Railway has told The Times that he won't give in to the demands of the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union even though almost half the company's weekend trains were cancelled last month because of a strike.

Mark Hopwood, who takes up his new job today, says that caving in over the role of guards on trains would sacrifice the company's ability to improve punctuality.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: broadgage on January 06, 2020, 15:53:01
The main challenge will presumably be the long running dispute over DOO. Most industrial disputes can be solved by compromise, but this one looks different.
Trains are either DOO or they are not, compromises are not easy in a yes/no situation like this.

Meanwhile, I hope that GWR will not be neglected. Whilst I am not entirely in agreement with Mr. Hopwood, he is undoubtedly a man of wide experience who understands railways. And has had the courage to engage with this forum.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: JayMac on January 06, 2020, 18:38:41

Trains are either DOO or they are not, compromises are not easy in a yes/no situation like this.


Or they're DCO, or DOO(P), or Driver and OBS.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: johngreg on January 07, 2020, 14:31:48
interesting article discussing this issue at:

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2020/guards-in-name-only-dwell-times-and-the-swr-guards-dispute/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on January 23, 2020, 15:18:05
More good news for SWR:
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1220358867047145472


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: rogerw on January 23, 2020, 16:28:00
It is interesting to note that just less than half of those entitled to vote actually voted to strike with slightly more in favour of action short of strike.  It almost suggests that those not in favour didn't bother to vote.  I am sure that Boris will use this should he propose any new anti-union legislation.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: IndustryInsider on January 23, 2020, 17:27:02
I am sure that Boris will use this should he propose any new anti-union legislation.

That will certainly encourage more people to use their vote.  Either for or against.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Timmer on February 24, 2020, 13:11:01
Can Mark bring anything different to the negotiating table that his predecessor couldn’t if the same rules laid down by the Dft still apply?

Maybe a different less hostile approach to the RMT?
Simple answer...no. But to be fair was he ever going to?

New dates:

1000 Mon 9 March to 1000 Tue 10 and 1000 Thu 12 to 1000 Fri 13 March


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bobm on March 03, 2020, 17:40:47
According to Twitter next week’s strikes have been suspended. 


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: bradshaw on March 03, 2020, 17:43:06

RMT website confirms the suspension of strikes to allow further talks on Friday

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/swr-strike-action-suspended-to-allow-for-further-talks/


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: Clan Line on March 03, 2020, 19:32:04
Who blinked ??


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: stuving on April 13, 2021, 18:07:47
At last! From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56733926):
Quote
South Western Railway train guard dispute finally ends

A long-running dispute over the role of train guards which caused widespread passenger disruption on South Western Railway (SWR) has ended.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union held 74 days of strikes between 2017 and 2020.

Its members had fought plans for drivers to operate the doors on new trains, instead of guards.

But it has now accepted the change after SWR guaranteed a guard would still be put on every passenger train.

Disruption caused by industrial action typically resulted in 800 trains being cancelled on every strike day, affecting tens of thousands of passengers each time.

The last strike came in January last year, but the dispute was still unresolved when the pandemic struck.


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: grahame on April 14, 2021, 19:38:35
From Rail Technology Magazine (https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/articles/south-western-railway-finds-common-ground-end-guard-dispute)

Quote
South Western Railway finds common ground to end guard dispute

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/rtm_swr.jpg)

Three years and 74 days of strike action it has taken for the South Western Railway company and the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) to come to an agreement.

Causing overall a total of 800 trains being cancelled affecting tens of thousands of passengers.

The issue and area of disagreement concerned plans for drivers to operate the doors on new trains, instead of guards.

However there has been common ground found after this ongoing and ‘tug of war’ which raged through the pandemic with the latest strike being in January.

I find myself wondering

1. Why common ground could not be found three years and seventy FIVE days ago before any of the damaging strikes

2. When Waterloo was remodelled to look like King's Cross - as per the illustration above


Title: Re: Planned Industrial Action
Post by: paul7575 on April 15, 2021, 13:14:44
I’ve always wondered why the RMT waited to flex their muscles so much until the very last London area commuter operator tried to introduce driver control of doors?    Suggesting guards are an essential safety feature on only one TOC out of however many there are has never seemed logical.

Wouldn’t they have been better trying to reinstate the second onboard staff member, (whatever they're to get called), to provide passenger mobility assistance on all those other TOCs that have already run without them for years?   

Paul



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