Great Western Coffee Shop

I came across this page that lists over 50 horse race venues (courses?) together with their nearest station.  Link pasted here in case any members or guests (lots of people find us on the search engines  :D ) interested.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/nonrail/sport_horse_racing.aspx

Any of our members go horse racing?  Good day out?   Alternative to the Pony Painting Party trend (https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2018/aug/13/pony-painting-parties-kids-petition-ban-themed-children-60000-signatures-animals-entertainment) that is raising so much notice at the moment?

An acquaintance of mine here in Bath seems to spend much of his life going by train to see horse racing. Almost every time I've caught a Paddington bound train he has been on it, heading to one or other of the courses over that way.

I don't have much time for a 'sport' which results in the deaths of 160 competitors a year.

Totally agree ... even more disgust at the greyhounds ... but don't get me going on that one.    Having said which, much of my horror is from the outside having not learned / researched into the detail and relying on passed-on evidence.

I know that Newbury racecourse has its own station and a quick check on national rail suggests that trains stop there every day, so presumably it does serve more than just the races, so why does the page Grahame linked to say "01.2.1 Non-Rail Location Accordian - Nearest Station" for Newbury? I'm also wondering how accessible some of the others are once you've got of the train – I know Bath racecourse is quite a way out if you're walking, but it's near the park & ride so presumably has decent bus service. In contrast, I remember passing Sandown Park – I think it was Sandown Park – and it is in the middle of town, which I'd have thought is not a usual racecourse location.

Apart from that, I was once on a train to Ashchurch and the ticket inspector was joking with some men in their 60s who she evidently saw regularly, they were on their way to the racing at Worcester.

Windsor Races is good fun on a summer evening - I was never that keen on the gee gees but it's one of those sports that whilst crap to watch on TV, it's a good atmosphere when you're there in person with a few pals.


As for the dogs..................I've been going to them for years!  :)

It is odd, because the link even goes to Newbury Racecourse Station. The regular service is augmented on racedays either by additional stops on the expresses or shuttles to Reading, depending on how big they are.

I agree, if humans wish to risk their lives in dangerous pursuits that is their choice.
Horses, greyhounds and other animals get no choice.

Cheltenham racecourse is not just served by Cheltenham Spa. There is a Cheltenham Racecourse station although the thing is, that's part of the Glos Warks Steam Railway but is very handy for the race days if you live in Toddington or Broadway now.😀

Definitely a nice ride as well. Cheltenham has had the same system for years now and I’m surprised that some of the shuttles do not leave from Gloucester, exiting the station there is less traffic, then up to the M5 it would not be as long.

The list of courses appears to be incomplete. For example, Newton Abbot has one, and a station not far away.

Does anyone know about what appears to be a race course that lies next to the railway line between Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon, by the disused link to the Trans Wilts line close to Staverton village? (I'm pretty sure it is there rather than by the other triangular link between Trowbridge and Westbury). I must have passed it hundreds of times on rail journeys, but have never seen any activity on it, not a single person or animal.

Oh and I completely agree with the comments expressed about the cruelty of the sport.

Those animals don't get much choice when they're taken to the abattoir to provide you with food either  (although racehorses get treated a great deal better throughout their lives)........ironically though, they are transported to the abattoir in far more tightly regulated conditions in respect of overcrowding than those "enjoyed" by those of us on GWR trains! 🙂

A dedicated bus service runs from Bath (railway / bus stations which adjoin each other) on race days to the racecourse public entrance.

I think what you see is land on which race horses are trained, there is also a similar feature on land between Yeovil and Castle Cary on the left as you are progressing from Yeovil to CC.

Round our way, Ascot is the obvious example of a high-street racecourse - literally, as it's closer than the station is to either. Overlooking the road next to Wokingham station, I also get the entertainment of Royal Ascot, especially on Ladies' Day and the Saturday. All those overdressed ladies, and often in family groups with equally overdressed but rather more sheepish menfolk. Being family groups there is often an element of reluctance too.

Even more entertaining, though only to watch, is the same groups coming back. Unsteady, dishevelled, with redder faces, often hatless (that'll cost you, sir) and with the women carrying their shoes but still tottering. (Personally I detest high heels, and quite why anyone thinks wearing them to a racecourse could make sense baffles me. And that's before you think about that footpath from the station! qv (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13309.0))

Some years ago, whilst dining in the Pullman the train passed Newbury racecourse. A fellow customer looked out of the window, stating "my doctor has told me to keep a close eye on what I eat" this being during a scandal of horsemeat being found in products claimed to be beef.

" I like IKEA meatballs, but having to assemble the horse first is tedious"

"Shock and horror, horse meat found in IKEA meat balls" "not as shocking as finding wood in the furniture"

Ikea meatballs surprisingly low in fat but very high in Sheagar !

Sorry to be argumentative, but if you saw some of the care and devotion that goes into those horses you'd be amazed, stable girls/lads are people on barely minimum wage who look after them 24/7, 365 days of the year, often working 12 or more hour shifts ensuring they are groomed, fed, mucked, watered, rode and given any injections, treatment they need to be healthy, no horse is put down unless its really necessary.  A lot of these horses are worth more than a brand new Jag!

I don't doubt the care and devotion of stable lads and lasses toward the horses in their care. They too though, like the horses, are exploited. Tales abound of being paid below minimum wage and of living in poor accommodation.

The horses are worth what they are because of the money awash in the industry. Money that rarely makes it down the chain to the lads and lasses. And the 'best' horses are insured. Run of the mill nags running on a wet Wednesday at Wincanton may not be insured. Either way, a survivable injury is often turned into a bullet to the head because treatment and care would be too expensive and the horse would not return to racing to earn for its connections.

So, sorry. Whilst I can empathise with the lads and lasses I can't use their lot as justification for accepting the 160 deaths a year of racehorses while competing.

Race horses are indeed very valuable and well looked after, that however does not alter the fact that large numbers die every year as a direct result of racing related injuries.

The same could have been argued for formula 1 any many other sports several years ago,  improvements to safety is a better move forward, trying to stop the sport all together won't get much support because its so popular.

I see a big difference between "sports" where animals are injured and sports where human beings allow themselves to be put in a position where they are injured.

I for one am not actively trying to stop horse racing.
But neither do I wish to attend race meetings, not to offer any other form of encouragement.
If enough people simply don't patronise meetings, then the sport will slowly whither away.

Motor racing is different since the victims are usually human volunteers who chose to partake in an obviously dangerous sport.

False equivalence.

Except these horses you refer to have been bred over 100 years with racing genes, why do you think most racing horses struggle after leaving the racing industry because they are very difficult to handle.   Its like buying a high performance sports car and using it for slow town driving.   Most race horses actually enjoy racing and its fairly easy to tell because they get so excited.  I'm sorry to if this seems rude but the problem isn't all about the racing industry itself but uneducated people thinking they know best.

As I said before, safety improves are a better solution, 20 years ago F1 drivers where being burnt alive how often does that happen now?

Accusing those in disagreement with you of being uneducated is poor form.

Particularly when you refer to horses having 'racing jeans' (how do they put them on?!), mention 'safety improves' rather than 'safety improvements', and continue with the false equivalence of Formula One and horse racing. Then there's the excellent skewering of your own position that horse racing is okay for the horses with the grammatically strange question and answer in one sentence; "why do you think most racing horses struggle after leaving the racing industry because they are very difficult to handle".

For accuracy, despite the continued false equivalence, the last person to burn to death in F1 was Roger Williamson in 1973. 45 years ago. Not 20. Fire safety improved dramatically after that incident meaning that whilst there were still serious fires after accidents, the drivers survived. Nikki Lauda and Gerhard Berger being two examples. The last major fire involving an F1 car was Jos Verstappen's pit stop refuelling fire in 1994. Well over 20 years ago and resulting in only very minor injuries to driver and mechanics. Safety in Formula One has improved immeasurably since the early 1970s. Yes, it's still dangerous. Yes there are still deaths. But only three F1 drivers have been killed while competing since 1983. And once again it needs pointing out that drivers in Formula One are there by choice.

As to your claims that 'safety improves are a better solution' (sic), where are these in the horse racing industry?

Animal Aid started collating data on horse deaths while racing in 2007. That year there were 161 deaths at UK racecourses. In 2017 there were 160. Over those 10 years the number of race meetings fell by 3%. Ten years of safety 'improvements' resulted in a statistically meaningless one fewer death. At that rate it'll take 1600 years to improve safety to the extent that no horse dies while racing.

What about retired horse welfare? If not out to stud or breeding, or becoming a celebrity (Red Rum, Desert Orchid etc), then it's rarely a happy retirement gambolling about the countryside. That's too expensive. A lucky few might find a home for retired racehorses run by a charity. Such charities receive little financial support from the industry itself though. Otherwise it's a one way trip to the abattoir. That's the fate for around 1000 healthy, but no longer competitive or useful for breeding, UK racehorses a year. Because these horses have been trained to race and are highly strung (those are not good things by the way) they are unsuited to private ownership for leisurely weekend hacks.

Finally, racehorses 'enjoying' racing. No scientific proof for that beyond natural instincts to run with the pack. Seeing that as enjoyment is just anthropomorphism.

My stats are from Animal Aid's Racehorse Deathwatch.
http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/
They posit that their death statistics are very conservative and 30% short of the true total. The number of annual deaths could be over 200.

Formula One stats largely from my own knowledge and enthusiasm for the sport. Fact checked with Wikipedia.

BNM are you a vegetarian?

No.

Relevance?

I enjoy meat, but I do favour free range meat and as far as possible avoid meat that is reared in intensive, unnatural or otherwise cruel conditions.

I see nothing wrong in the rearing of animals in natural free range conditions, and then in killing them for eating. Providing that they properly treated whilst alive, and transported with minimal stress before humane slaughter.

I largely avoid processed or ground up meat such as pies, sausages, burgers and the like, but more for fear of what has probably gone into it.
Beefburger= all parts of a cow excepting the beef steak and the leather.
Haggis=all parts of a sheep excepting the wool and the mutton.
Sausage= all the bits we cant sell as anything else.

I also see nothing wrong in the hunting of wild animals such as game birds, rabbits, and deer for food providing that this be done humanely (usually by a good shot from a suitable firearm) and presuming that the animals are relatively plentiful and not endangered.

I find it ironic that someone who, on animal welfare grounds, is clearly so against a sport where a tiny proportion of animals who are bred for racing die in the process, but is happy to feed himself on animals that are never bred for anything other than the slaughterhouse?

I also note your fondness for F1 - back in the not so distant days when it was hugely sponsored by big tobacco, how did you reconcile your support with the millions of people who die as a result of that industry?


One other thing - you are clearly an intelligent person who thinks deeply about subjects - I have to say that sarcastic "Grammar Nazi" style comments on other people's spelling is a cheap shot and unworthy of you. I'm not saying that it's the case with the other contributor, but a lot of people have conditions which prevent them being as perfect as you when it comes to these matters - I don't think it's appropriate to emphasise, weaponise or poke fun at such things.

"racing jeans" sounds to me like spell cheque  :) misdiagnosis.

I expect that the O/P mistyped "genes" and that this was auto corrected.

Anything official, legal, or intended for an important publication should be proof-read, but such is a bit OTT for a forum.
I recall the GWR website offering "fillet stake"

Gentlemen ... this thread is about getting to the horse races by train ... please don't let it go to the dogs. Be nice even if you don't agree. ;D

And I don't think it's appropriate to call those you disagree with "uneducated". I therefore responded in kind.

As for your other point. Are you suggesting only vegans are allowed to take issue with the treatment of race horses as commodities?

Ah I see, so it's a (horse) race to the bottom.

Nope, I was just pointing out the irony. I appreciate  (as our friend Jeremy Corbyn has pointed out) that not everyone gets it 🙂

It's not 'irony' though. So often that word is misunderstood.

I think what you were suggesting is that I can't reconcile my meat eating with wanting to see an end to using animals for sport. Were it the case it would be hypocrisy, not irony.

Not that it is a hypocrital position to be in though. There is no cognitive dissonance on my part.

Sorry Bignosemac, but your comment was a little uncalled for,  in relation to my comment i wasn't referring to you as uneducated,  I was referring that you have not properly looked into the sport,  I know people involved in the sport and therefore stand up for them.

Whilst my silly typo was due to me typing whilst half asleep I actually find it disgusting as such you would mock someone for it, and it seriously concern's me about your attitude to people on this forum.   I might step out of line here, but you come across as a very arrogant, judgemental person.  Whilst i might not be perfect i am willing to listen to someone, and only point out something if I truly believe what they are saying is wrong.   I would seriously recommend that you possibly visit Upper Lambourn on its open day and actually talk to trainers, owners about your concerns, whereby they can tell you a lot more than what I can about the subject.

In relation to other people, I would like to point out that I have no problems what so ever, other than a bereavement a few months ago of a dear and very close relative, which I mainly why I have come on this forum more than I used to.

Gentlemen, please - we are GENTLEmen ...

I have had the privilege of meeting many people in real life who I have initially encountered online, and got to know them - some very well indeed. And there's a natural goodness in human nature which means that with many of those people I'll say it's been an honour to meet them and to get to know them.  But that natural goodness does not always shine through at first glance, here in the cut and thrust of a specialist interest forum.

We ... all ... have things going on outside of the forum and sometimes that and its emotions and concerns spill over into a sharp post, an appearance of being aggressive in arguing, or arrogant in responding.  The passion of a viewpoint is wonderful; we do all need to take a step into calmer and more measured responses occasionally - personality wise some of us find that easier than others (or have become more practised at it).

Yesterday, three of the four 'admins' met up - looking forward for the Coffee Shop.  All three of us have other things going on in our lives but yet we're intent on working through those.   Personally, I can say that at times the forum has been "a change is as good as a rest" ... I'm not going to list my own issues here, and certainly not those of others, but I am aware that I may respond differently to a post when I'm fresh as a daisy in the morning to one when I've had a long day or am getting ready - as I will be on both Wednesday and Thursday mornings - for a pair of very different, but both challenging, events.

Please give each other space.

Perhaps we should arrange a few more In Real Life meetings ... save for the fact that everyone's so busy and the organiser ends up feeling they've done a lot of work for low numbers.  If we were to arrange something, I have a clue that it shouldn't be at a race meeting!

I reckon we should all get together & go Hopwood spotting.......surely the next "Meet
 the Manager" session can't be far away? 😃

It’s not very safe to play hide and seek on the railway, good idea though.

Ah we'll be quite safe.....the railway is the last place you'd find him! 😂

I’m sure if we could get to meet Mark Hopwood over a pint I’m sure we’d all have a good evening. Might even be beneficial rather than staged “Meet the Manager” sessions.

The fallacy of assuming that because one doesn't work in an industry they can have no insight into it.

And it is an assumption. Many years ago, in my teens, I did some agency work at the stables of a well known West Country trainer. I also shared a house with stable lads and lasses. The work was a real eye-opener. My opinion on the value of horse racing and the welfare of race horses was certainly coloured by that experience.

And no, it isn't of limited value just because it was years ago. Little has changed in the industry. Evidenced by the stubbornly high annual death rate of horses bred for racing.

I truly believe now that horse racing is wrong. I was ambivalent for years, but the realisation that so many horses are dying unnecessarily, either killed competing, or discarded for not making the grade, has changed my opinion. A position reached by life experience. Visiting a stables today won't change that opinion. An open day won't give one an insight into what really goes on in the industry day in, day out.

I could equally suggest you spend some time shadowing a BHA equine vet. See what they deal with day in, day out. It won't be pretty.

I've heard he likes to DJ in his spare time,  Maybe his gangnam style will be better than his management of GWR?

Apparently there is a cardboard cutout of Mr. Hopwood at Milford House for his absence. 

I'm still getting the odd report that elements of this conversation are straying off the factual discussion into the personal.   However, I'm not going back and asking for changes (or changing anything) - I thinks we're OK. I do appreciate it can be very hard to accept someone else's view when it differs to your own convictions, especially where that other person's view raises awkward thoughts for you.

Some people will always enjoy a good nag Graham, it's just horses for courses!  ;)

Can we now go to the dogs!

Not yet and hopefully not at all.

Please, best not set any more hares running, the howling will start again!  :)