Great Western Coffee Shop

On my way back from Temple Meads to Warminster yesterday I spent 68 mins at Bath Spa - most of it open-mouthed at the shambolic goings-on at Platform 2 during that time.

Just how are platform announcements initiated - and from where ? It is a wonder that the loudspeakers didn't burn themselves out with the amount that they were in use. Unfortunately much of their output was "verbal diarrhoea" - unnecessary/irrelevant/repetitive/just plain wrong.

1. Announcement made that First Class on a forthcoming train would be in coaches 1, 2, 9 & 10 - you are ahead of me already, aren't you ?........... it was in coaches 4, 5, 6, & 7.   Utter shambles when all the people stood in the mid section of the platform found themselves confronted by a wall of First Class coaches. Many of these would-be travelers thought that they could board anywhere and walk through the train to find seats - wrong ! The staff in the First Class coaches were then trying to direct passengers to the extremities of the train (in good faith !) and explain that it was not possible to walk through the whole train.  Some passengers were starting to take umbrage at this - thinking that Standard Class ticket holders were not now being allowed to board the train through the First Class doors !

2. Announcement is made that the "train approaching" does not call at this station. Nothing appeared for some time.............then a brand new "5 car DMU" trundles in and stops - and the doors unlock. Platform staff and travelers look on somewhat bemused - then an announcement is made that this is an "additional service" to Paddington !

3. The trains to Weymouth and Portsmouth Harbour were both delayed. We were then subjected to a non-stop barrage of "apologies" for this. At one point 3 apologies were announced one after the other - with no break in between..........for a 13 min delay, then a 15 min delay, then a 13 min delay again - all for the same train !!!!  When a train is 29 min late starting its journey and was never better than 22 min late, why were such hopelessly inaccurate arrival times being announced ? - more clocks needing repair than usual perhaps.........   My grandson informed me that 25 apologies were made - I wouldn't doubt that for one minute ! (When the Weymouth, 2 car 150, finally left even Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't have found enough floor space to sit on !!)

The overwhelming impression was that no one at Bath Spa had a clue what was going on until an announcement was made - and even then that was not correct. It wasn't chaotic, it wasn't a disaster - it was just a display of an organisation that seems to have completely lost sight of what it is meant to be doing and how to do it. A most dispiriting display of how to run a railway.  GWR is going downhill faster than Eddie the Eagle.................

Most stations will operate like that because the announcements are automated and triggered by the train passing certain points on the network.

The information about the location of First Class is dependent on the correct formation being inputted into the system.

Additional services sometimes don’t appear in the system if it is a last minute alteration. Generally happens when an empty stock working is turned into a passenger service.

Proof, if it were needed, that operating 5 or 2x5 car IETs on HST routes just doesn’t work. On an HST, first class is either at the front or the rear of the train simple. There are a number of combinations of where First class will appear on a 2x5 car IET. Couple that with being unable to walk from one train to another leaves an unsatisfactory set up for passengers. Sooner 9 car IETs take over these 5/2x5 diagrams the better.

Agree, and whilst I am not keen on any variety of IET, 5 car are the worst, 5+5 nearly as bad, and 9 car the best of a bad lot.

Make the 9 car units into 10 car by adding a proper hot buffet, add a few more table seats, get the reservation system to work, and provide Pullman dining more often, and they will start to feel like proper inter-city trains.
Even an old cynic like me might then NEARLY forget about the underfloor engines.

Even worse in Cornwall with 2x5 formations. Some stations only the front 5 carriages are platformed.  Cue several announcements telling passengers they need to leave the rear unit and move into the front unit. 

The announcements are automated and programmed the week or a few days before.  The delayed announcements are automatic by the system unless altered by Swindon control.

To be honest your thing about first class being in the wrong position is likely it was booked for that and a quick set swap happened and nobody either bothered or had the chance to correct it.

You seem to forget that 15 years ago we had 5+5 car Class 180 adelantes, the only reason they where removed was because of faulty doors.

Then it should be somebody's job to ensure that correct information is passed on to the passengers. If necessary then hire somebody.

Whatever the reasons for these incorrect announcements - it remains that in the eye of the consumer it appears that the railways are incompetent.

It will take a long time before they dig themselves out of this hole.

If indeed they can.

Perhaps someone should tell Swindon control that after the first few times an "apology" is no longer is no longer an apology, but just b****y annoying - rubbing salt into the wound !
Also, something I have never understood is why platform CIS can say one thing and RTT is saying something different - and RTT is usually the more accurate.

Doesn't that prove my point if "nobody ...... bothered" ? It takes more than a few minutes to change the layout of a train - how many services had this formation done already that day ?

Yesterday was my first ride on an IET (How I got to Bath in the first place). Hmmm.........seats weren't quite as bad as I thought they might be, but after 3 or 4 hours ??? General appearance of Standard Class was stark, over illuminated by very bright lighting. A lot of effort must have gone into the seat layout to get that many seats in with no window.  Walked through First - didn't notice much difference !  Aircon didn't seem very effective, coach rode well but nowhere near as quiet as a 125. The only really good point - plenty of leg room ! Someone has finally realised that Homo Sapiens has exceeded 5' 6" in height.
My (9 year old) Grandson said the seats were better in the 158, have to agree - and the aircon worked too..........

I must be a glutton for punishment - am taking Grandson to Salisbury tomorrow.............see how that goes  :-\

Swindon (and your local platform staff if you're at a megalopolis luck enough to have them) also know how irritating it is. There are national standards / rule they are obliged to follow - said to be imposed on GWR - and it's my understanding that at some point in the not too distant passed those got tuned so that even a change of a minute or two results in yet another announcement.

Not that long ago, automated delay and cancellation announcements ended with "I am very sorry for (insert bad news) which I found annoying as it felt like a robot was taking the responsibility for the problem. At least now the voice says "we are sorry" implying that the fault was down to more than just an automated announcement system.

Depends where you are on the network,  major routes such as the Thames Valley, Bristol metro announce 2 minute delays,  deep down West its anything over 5 minutes.

Oh how I feel for station staff having to put up with these constant announcements. I can only think you train yourself to block them out from your hearing.

As someone who's been on both the 800s and 802s I can tell you a few things.  1 The seats a slightly firm because the foam underneath is new, exactly the same as buying a new sofa, after time it softens.  I do agree the lighting and that horrible lime green needs sorting, and im surprised no lesson where learnt from the FGW dynamic lines refresh when the same problems where made out. First Class at the moment isn't great, im not sure if they are waiting for a year before putting in leather seats due to railway rules. Aircon in an 802 was perfectly fine, but the fresh air on a HST is much nicer.  In terms of quietness it depends on which coach you sit in, the 2nd standard class coach from the front, seems to be much quieter than the middle coach for some reason, yet they both have underfloor engines.

The voice of the women on GWR trains really annoys me. And when you are on an IET between Worcester and Oxford hearing that women repeat all the calling stops, and the short platform at the next station could not irritate me more.

Yes I've had very similar experiences at Bath Spa on many occasions. Just the day before you travelled, I stood on the platform there waiting for the London train, whose formation showed as being first class at the front. No announcements to say otherwise, and wanting to sit in the quiet carriage we were stood at the rear with Bromptons and bags The train arrives with first class at the rear, and all manner of a rush to get past others coming down the platform the other way.

The constant announcements are not just incessant, but the effect to those who don't manage to blank them out completely, is that they are nonsense and thus even more irritating. How can a train be delayed an extra 2 minutes 2 seconds later and then catch up 2 minutes another 2 seconds later, yet that is often what is announced.

The worst for me is waiting on platform 4 at Swindon. Every time somebody steps onto the stairs, which obviously means almost constantly, the announcement about "Please use the handrail..." echos down the lobby at the top where everyone waits. I would be a complete nervous wreck if I had to work up there.

I can hear it now...........
"We regret to announce that....When on the stairs....If you see anything suspicious...Stand behind the yellow line.... Hold the hand rail and take care..Sorted!"

Well, it could be worse. We don't seem to have the hologram lady who tells us to take care on the escalator and to use the lift for luggage.

Nanny state at her best.

........at least they have given up on the ludicrous  "please fold your buggy before boarding the train ". That one showed just perfectly how completely out of touch a lot of the people who are meant to be running the railways are - on another planet !

I wonder if GWR are working on a hologram of Mark Hopwood to be rolled out at all stations...or do you think they, like the rest of us, can't find the real thing ? ???

Here he is in action yesterday:
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1034903055500804097?s=21

The announcements on GWR have been largely the same since the new system was installed, the majority of them are timed based on the trains expected arrival time. This mean that if this time is wrong then the announcements are played at the wrong time. Announcements regarding train stops and formation are typically 3 minutes before expected arrival time, 1.5 minutes (for the slightly shorter announcement), and then on triggering the arrival report. The latter being the only one that is actually triggered by any train movement, the former 2 could play even if the train is stood at a red signal and actually being delayed. Announcements regarding delays are influenced by a range of factors including, but not limited to, how late the train currently is and its current expected arrival time.


This typically occurs when the train is passing through a station on its route, the train running reporting system only understanding trains arriving and departing. Therefore when the train reports as it passes a station an arrival report is made, this pushes the delay up as this is based on the train coming to a stand. Once the train has passed said station a departure report is made and this, in simple terms, cancels out the effect of the arrival report. The train then returns to its previous lateness or what the system has decided based on the time reported at that location.

When you combine this with that at some station where a train isn't timed the system still has an expected passing time and this time isn't always accurate, so results in inaccuracies in the calculation of the trains delay.

When a train is on time you typically won't notice the impact of this, this is because often this will be absorbed by the dwell time at the relevant location or because the system will not announce short delays.

So a couple of posters have told us how the automated announcement system works and why it goes wrong sometimes.  However, this is of no consolation to passengers who get no information, too much information (eg repeated apologies) and disinformation (eg First Class wrong end).

This is another example of a system which GWR has put in but seem incapable of running reliably (bit like train crew rostering).  Management is there to manage and sort things out. The posts above show they know why things go wrong, their job is not just to explain and apologise when their systems fail, but to take action to fix the issues that cause the system failures. 

At times of disruption it’s about as useful as a chocolate teapot. I’ve been a Bath Spa when a human takes over making the announcements making a lot more sense, just like it did when I was a youngster travelling by train in the days before automation.

As I said in an earlier post, I went to Salisbury today - what a difference to Bath Spa. Quite a lot going on; trains arriving/leaving, trains splitting, platform changes.........but I don't think I heard any announcement made more than twice. There was one train running late - GWR of course ! This too was announced only twice - it was also on the platform CIS, for all to see. I had to wonder how many times the late running of this train, minute by minute,(34 of them) was blasted out to the people waiting at Bath...............as the train came all the way up from Portsmouth !!!
My train to Salisbury from Warminster was also late: 1 min: 2 min: 3 mins all the way up to 6 mins - then it became "delayed". It actually turned up two minutes adrift. Mind you, it had come a long way - started at Westbury  ::)

Perhaps someone from GWR should go to Salisbury and see/hear how station/train information to passengers should be done.....fat chance, I fear.

From somewhere near Bath (messages not exactly as announced but you will get the drift):

Freight train rolls through
End of freight receding
Freight long gone
<several minutes>
IET rolls in.

 ::)

Another frequentannoyance at both Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads is that there are often more than one announcement made at the same time, on different platforms. The effect of this is either, that you can't hear the one on your own platform because the other is louder and drowns it out, or you end up with two different announcements competing against each other in your ears and you not being able to take in either. At Temple Meads I've often heard an announcement about the train I'm waiting for start, and just as it reaches the crucial point, another one comes over it and you are left wondering whether the announcement was going to tell you something important, such as a platform change or a change in the set up of the train, or something more routine.

Its the same as Newton Abbot in the early morning Paignton local arrival announcement, halfway through a London Paddington service announcement with Roger's voice beckoning the entire station.

I was on 150002 the other day when the automated announcment lost sync with reality due to request stops. This precipitated the rapid movement down the unit of an agitated passenger seeking guidance from the conductor. I am rather sceptical of the value of slavish adherence to PRM-TSI or whatever, if the result isn't going to provide accurate information!

While on the subject of on-train electronic wizardry, does anyone else find the scrolling orange dot-matrix displays rather irritating (as the scrolling is too attention-grabbing)? On the aforementioned 150002, I found that reflections in the windows, ceiling and internal glass partitions put seven scrolling images within my field of view.

( Mods: may I suggest that this thread is renamed to reflect its topic of automated information defects, in the interest of future searches? )

Scrolling text on train PIS can be quite amusing when grammar and syntax are ignored.

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